[00:00:00] Jim Jansen: Hey everybody, welcome to the Quipcast. So today I sit down with Father Jamie Zarse. Father Jamie is the pastor at Sacred Heart Parish in Shawnee, Kansas. We have a fun, fast-moving conversation talking about his vision for the parish, how he built a group of prayer warriors and a leadership team to help complement his strengths and his gifts.

How the Lord revealed to them just a vision of key habits, foundation stones they call them, to help people grow and mature as disciples. Devotion to the Eucharist, the Rosary, habits for confession and scriptural prayer, and how they measure those. And the changes they've seen in mass attendance and in giving, it's a really fun, fast-moving, hopeful conversation. You're going to love it. Take a listen.

Hey everybody. Welcome to the EquipCast, a weekly podcast for the Archdiocese of Omaha. I'm your host, Jim Jansen. Now let's dive into some encouragement and inspiration to equip you to live your faith and to be fruitful in your mission. Let's go.

So, Father Jamie Zarse, welcome to the EquipCast. How you doing? Great to be with you, Jim. I'm doing really well. We have a friend in common, uh, your friend, my pastor, I mean, my friend too, but my pastor first, Father Ben Boyd, we'll give him a shout out right at the top. We got introduced, I don't know, it's been, I don't know, five, six months ago now, maybe not, no, it's not even that long.

We met in December. Uh, anyway, for those who don't know you, Father, tell, tell us a little bit about your, your faith story. 

[00:01:39] Fr. Jamie: So yes, we share in common one of my dear friends, a classmate from the class of 2014 at Kenrick Lennon Seminary, Father Ben Boyd, priest of the Archdiocese of Omaha. I'm a priest in the Archdiocese of Kansas City, Kansas.

So, this is my, this is chapter three. So, I've been a priest for ten years. I'm now the pastor of a parish in Western Shawnee, Sacred Heart of Jesus. We have just over 2, 000 families. This is chapter number three, and we share in common a dear friend without, without Father Ben Boyd. Jim, I. I never meet you. 

[00:02:16] Jim Jansen: Right? Yeah, it was fun. So, we it's a background right for those who don't know the uh, holy ghost and saint Bernadette leadership team, you know when father ben who just became uh our pastor, he's like, all right. I need a leadership team, and we were not too long into it and like hey We're gonna make a road trip.

We're gonna go down and see Father Jamie and his parish and his team. You guys have things humming down there. And so, we made a road trip, which was great for us. A brand-new team. You know, we're sharing our stories and our testimonies in the car, getting a lot of bonding time together and then very fun to watch you and your team work together.

I want to dive into that in just a little bit because I think that's, that's part of what I'm eager to give you a chance to share, but maybe just to set the table a little bit. Give us some background on Sacred Heart down in Shawnee. What's the parish like? What's your vision? Give us the context here.

[00:03:12] Fr. Jamie: I've just been the pastor here for 21 months, so I've not even made it through two years. But when I landed in this assignment, Archbishop Nauman... I said "Archbishop, this is the sixth largest parish in Kansas City." 

[00:03:27] Jim Jansen: It's big. 

[00:03:28] Fr. Jamie: It's, it's big. So over 2, 000 families, we have a school, we have right around 400 students, we have something like 40 full time Employees.

So, half of those are on the parish side. Just half of those, I should say, are on the school side with our faculty. So, it's an operating budget of 6 million a year. We've got a lot going on, Jim. A lot going. 

[00:03:52] Jim Jansen: Yeah.

[00:03:52] Fr. Jamie: And I just, when I, when I first got this assignment from Archbishop now, when I said, wow, where do I even begin?

[00:04:01] Jim Jansen: Yeah, it's a lot because you're pre you had been a pastor before, but your previous assignments were quite a bit smaller. Yeah. We did the 5th biggest, of course, everything is smaller, but I mean, it was a, it was a big jump in size and scope. 

[00:04:13] Fr. Jamie: Gosh, Jim, you're right. So, like, we're talking, it was the, the jump from the last parish in small town, USA, big skies, only 150, 165 families.

This was a jump by like, this is 15 times bigger. It was considerable. 

[00:04:33] Jim Jansen: So, talk about. I mean, I knew that you had not yet been there for two years. You've got it down, right? 21 months. You have made so much progress in 21 months developing a vision and a team, and you've already kind of said like, ah, I walked in, it's like, this is overwhelming.

Like, how did you move from, oh my goodness, overwhelming to this place where you all have a vision and a dream and a really kinda a high functioning team what happened in that first 21 months to get you to this spot? 

[00:05:12] Fr. Jamie: So, this first comment I want to make is for my brother priest if there's even one priest that's listening to this. So, so brother priest gosh the last several priests that have been pastors here. This parish has really broken them. It has been completely overwhelming.

I feel like I'm not enough. It doesn't matter how hard I run fires, I put out in a single day or in a single week, I just can't keep up. 

So, I would just say that coming into this assignment, what I knew in advance is if I don't have humility, the humility to. Build a team and to find help and to first get really clear.

Okay. What did the Holy Spirit give me through the grace of my baptism? What are my charisms of the Holy Spirit? And then from there, you know, how did God make me? 

So, I happen to be the oldest of five children. I happen to be a former, a former college athlete, so I'm very competitive, oldest child. 

[00:06:12] Jim Jansen: Wait, what sport?

[00:06:14] Fr. Jamie: Yes, I was a soccer player at Marquette University. 

[00:06:16] Jim Jansen: Nice, nice. 

[00:06:17] Fr. Jamie: So back then Marquette was in the big east, but again, like from the temperament, which would be like my, my predominant temperament is a sanguine and a choleric is a secondary. So, like the birth order, I'm on the oldest of five to the fact that I'm very competitive by nature, like Jim. 

[00:06:34] Jim Jansen: Yeah. 

[00:06:35] Fr. Jamie: I think that I'm being set up to be very, very broken because it's never going to be enough in a parish this big.

That's the key upfront. 

[00:06:44] Jim Jansen: Right? The size and the scope of the responsibility and then your temperamental makeup, natural leader, competitive. It could have easily been a recipe for burnout. What did you do when you walk in? So, you've got this and again, I love the way you talk about it. Like, ah, this very humble, like, I can't try to do this myself.

Good men have, have struggled here. I got to do something different. I can't be all about me. What'd you do? 

[00:07:13] Fr. Jamie: Yeah, that's exactly right. So, so starting with the end in mind, "what do I want to leave my successor?", Jim truly was where I began. And so, what I, what I started with was I need to build a team of prayer warriors.

I formed. Like the seven sisters apostolate, but Jim, like we didn't stop at seven. We went to 30. 

[00:07:36] Jim Jansen: Yeah. I love that. And for those, uh, gosh, I don't know what episode number, uh, Katie Keller was on. She runs the seven sisters apostolate, uh, here in the archdiocese of Omaha. Beautiful. I mean, Seven prayer warriors to each take a day.

They're praying and they're fasting and you're like, well, heck why stop at seven? Let's get a couple people per day. And if I remember right you didn't just extend this prayer cover to yourself, But you extended it to other key staff members and leaders within the parish. 

[00:08:08] Fr. Jamie: Yeah, that's exactly right because where does the pastor find himself if he loses his principal?

Where does he find himself? If he loses his business manager. So, so again, then what we call parish life would be any, whoever in the parish is driving engagement for the faithful. Right, so if you lose these leaders, they may be volunteer, they may be staffed. If you lose these leaders, oh my, now you have an even bigger headache than you had before.

[00:08:36] Jim Jansen: Well, and, I mean, maybe it goes without saying, but if we can just make it explicit, the spiritual warfare or interference, right, you don't want to make it overdramatic, it's just kind of the ordinary, you know, way the enemy messes with us. For sure our clergy experience, I think a special attack, but you're not immune just because you're in the business office.

You're not immune just because you're the main. In fact, if we're honest, it's sometimes those behind the scene roles, the, you know, secretaries, bookkeepers, maintenance folks that Their, their challenges of health or clarity about their role, man, sometimes that wreaks, wreaks havoc for the whole organization and the whole parish, even though their role isn't explicitly spiritual or sacramental.

[00:09:25] Fr. Jamie: I mean, Jim, to your point, like it took one bad apple on my soccer team at Marquette, just one 11 starters. 

[00:09:34] Jim Jansen: Yeah. 

[00:09:34] Fr. Jamie: Just one guy decides, you know what, I've got a bad attitude, and I'm not interested in leadership from the coach, and I'm not interested in leadership from the captain. And I don't care to be a team player.

I just want what's in it for me that this one bad egg, gosh, the whole nest is compromised. Yeah. 

[00:09:56] Jim Jansen: That's huge. And the right, the enemy of our souls knows, okay, fine. If you know, father's got some prayer cover and maybe some maturity to resist that I can get at him, uh, by undo it, you know, by rooting the secretary's day or the bookkeeper or whatever.

Father, talk a little bit about the vision. Again, it's sacred heart parish, which I think is important for people to, you know, to understand a little bit of this. Talk about the vision and how did it, how did it develop? 

[00:10:29] Fr. Jamie: Thank you, Jim. Yeah. So, so what I would say is from that prayer cover came next. Okay.

How did God make me? So where are my strengths and where are my weaknesses as a leader? And from that place, it became very clear. I'm not a high visionary. I'm not a problem solver. I don't necessarily have great follow through. I need to go find people and build the right leadership team with people based on their experience, based on their temperament, based on their charisms of the Holy Spirit, and how God made them, Jim.

I've got to go find people to surround me that are going to be able to fill the gap, right? 

[00:11:08] Jim Jansen: Right. They compliment, they can compensate, you know, both C words, right? Compliment your strengths, compensate for your weaknesses. It's probably worth a little bit of a detour. You've mentioned charisms and strengths.

Talk about like, what did you use just as the tools for your own self-awareness? And then what did you use as tools to help you identify that gifting, so you knew who to invite? To labor with you. 

[00:11:38] Fr. Jamie: Yes. So, I began. I truly feel that the amazing parish movement is a work of the Holy Spirit. I realize that's not for every pastor.

I realize not everyone is a huge fan of amazing parish. I happen to be. I just don't think that I've ever competed with a parish council or a school council or a finance council pound for pound against the leadership team that's meeting every week. But what I would say is from... I began to use, so, I truly believe this Jim, so the Catholic Church with the collapse of Rome, the Catholic Church breathes forth into Western civilization her code of canon law.

She creates these systems and these processes, this best practice for transmitting the faith. I feel 2, 000 years later, now the business world has a gift to make back to the Catholic Church. We baptize it. We need to understand that we're not a business, but we are an organization. We have overhead. We have, we have goodness.

We have staff. We have people problems. We have finance problems. We have facility problems. Is there a gift to be made back to the church? 

[00:12:50] Jim Jansen: Yeah. 

[00:12:50] Fr. Jamie: And Jim, I say yes. And so, I started looking for some of those best. Practice instruments, and I use those to find the right people. 

[00:13:00] Jim Jansen: Now, I want to go back to something you said, because you referenced just, you know, pastoral counsels.

And I think I want to make sure I understand you're saying like, yeah, pastoral councils are fine, but one, they're not in canon law and two the effectiveness for what a council offers compared to what a leadership team offers, you know, a group that's meeting weekly five to six intentionally chosen for a shared vision and for a complimentary gifting in your experience, You're way more effective as a pastor because of that team rather than using the simply using the pastoral council model. 

[00:13:41] Fr. Jamie: Yeah. So, what I would say is I'm so grateful for those that serve on parish councils finance councils and school councils. 

[00:13:46] Jim Jansen: Right because you still you still have those right?

[00:13:49] Fr. Jamie: We still do. 

[00:13:50] Jim Jansen: Yeah. Yeah, they're apart, but they're not playing. There's a unique role that you needed the leadership team to play that those aren't actually designed to serve.

[00:13:59] Fr. Jamie: If you're asking me with a team of great lay leaders on a parish council or a finance council or a school council to compete with a group of parish team leaders that are meeting every week. One of these teams is meeting every month or every quarter. The other one is meeting every week. The time alone makes a difference. If that team is built on trust. And the other team is built on "this is a need for our parish that I want to fill." These are, these are fundamentally two very different teams, and we just can't ask them in Christian charity to compete against each other because they're not the same.

[00:14:40] Jim Jansen: Right? They're in different spaces. I mean, you know, I've heard, uh, you mentioned amazing parish. I'll give a shout out to divine renovation as well, where, you know, they had, they, they would recommend a parish as, Hey, have, you know, have a pastoral council, but let the council be in the space of offering the gift of counsel, you know, select strategic thinkers who are able to kind of research who can temperature take, who can do some things to serve the pastor with the gift of counsel.

The getter done folks like, Hey, we need to come together. We've got a vision and there's a lot to do to bring that to life. That's, that's the stuff of leadership teams, which for a large parish is often staff, but for small to medium sized parishes, it's either a hybrid or it's a group of volunteers. And man, it is, I mean, yeah, I, it's your testimony and I've seen it again and again.

It's, I don't want to overdramatize here, but it's life changing for many of our pastors to be able to surround, surround themselves with a team like that to, to help them bring the vision that God's given them to life. 

That's huge. So again, you mentioned the, the, the vision statement that you all have. I don't see if I can get it right here. Right. Putting, putting all hearts on a collision course with the sacred heart of Jesus. I love that.

How did that develop? Talk a little bit about the process. 

[00:16:08] Fr. Jamie: I've been a priest for 10 years. And what I've seen is I happen to have, like God did give me a lot of energy and he did give me the ability to win friends and influence people. But what I've discovered as I've left my assignments is the next guy, God gave him different gifts.

So, I wanted to, okay, how do we create the potential if it's God's will for an amazing parish? And how do we give that to the next man, recognizing that God gave him different gifts? And so, what I did is I took to prayer, the scene with David and Goliath, the scene of David stepping into the wadi, picking up five foundation stones.

Well, five, I turned that into my prayer into five foundation stones. We are measuring all of our fruitfulness. The encounters with the Holy Spirit are these five foundation stones. So, to the extent that our parishioners, number one, are praying with scripture, number two, are examining their conscience and going to confession.

Number three, they're spending time in silence before the blessed sacrament. Number four, they are honoring the mother of God through the rosary, devotion to the rosary. And number five, Jim, we both know we all have these. Passions and desires that can get us in trouble. So, we need to be fasting. I've got to my appetites My appetites are going to get me in trouble So those five foundation stones that was the fruit of my prayer before the blessed sacrament and Jim if you can believe this Now we are measuring those five foundation stones Every quarter.

[00:17:42] Jim Jansen: Yeah. I love that. I mean, so these are like, okay, there's a lot. I mean, there's so much, I love being Catholic, but there's a lot and there's so many different devotions and practices and to come to the Lord and to let him like, okay, here's five. Do you want to slay the, uh, this giant? I love the David and Goliath reference.

Uh, I'm, we're going to pick up five stones here and We're going to attend to the cultivation of these habits in the life of your parishioners, and more than just a sermon series or a poster, like, you're actually trying to form people in these habits, and you're measuring, like, the progress. Talk about that.

Like, how do you measure devotion to the rosary or eucharistic adoration or fasting? Any, like, how do you measure those things? 

[00:18:37] Fr. Jamie: So, Jim, I went and found a high visionary and said, I need you to personally fund Eyes in the Sky. So, we have, we have cameras in the parish that are counting the number of souls that come into the parish for every Sunday Mass.

I can tell you how many people every single week are attending every single Mass. 

[00:18:58] Jim Jansen: Right. This is like NFL stadium anonymous, but right? They heads and bodies can be counted. So, you know, you don't just have to hope that the usher has a good angle and can count everybody like, you know, uh, as well as, as close as the chiefs do, you know, exactly how many people were in mass. At any given day. 

[00:19:18] Fr. Jamie: That's exactly right. That's every daily mass. It's every, it's every daily confession hour. We know exactly how many souls are in line for confession and it's every Sunday mass. Now from there, what I can tell you is we average 2000 souls a weekend at mass. 

[00:19:33] Jim Jansen: Yeah, that's pretty good. 

[00:19:34] Fr. Jamie: We have 750 that are filling out this survey after one year of asking.

So, we are very grateful, and we are very. Hopeful for what the future can can hold if we are already at 750 out of 2000 in the first year, 

[00:19:51] Jim Jansen: right? And so, like for the nerds out there Surveying your people about you know, how these habits are coming into your life. Getting... this is I mean a little less than half.

I don't know what the percentage is. It was like is that 40 percent 45 something like that getting 40 percent of your parishioners, Sunday mass going parishioners, to fill out a survey that's consistently at a quarterly basis. That's huge. And you're only one year into into it. What do you ask on this survey?

[00:20:24] Fr. Jamie: So, after communion, Jim, the faithful are seated. So, it's after the closing collect or prayer. They're seated and before the final blessing, they scan a QR code on their phone. I realized some of my brother priests out there are like, you're kidding me. You are encouraging the faithful to bring a phone to mass.

Yes, I am brothers. And so, so they're filling this out and there are 13 questions. Those questions are going to give me the leader of the parish, whether this is a man or a woman. Whether they're married or single, whether they're that's going to give me the age demographic for the individual. And then it's going to give me the answer to all 5 of those foundation stones, whether they're doing this daily or weekly or monthly, that's going to be the ability as a leader to present to the entire parish.

We have seen an 18 percent and mass attendance. Since September 1st or 371 people. 

[00:21:24] Jim Jansen: Yeah, 18 percent increase, 370 souls, more coming to mass. 

[00:21:31] Fr. Jamie: That's it. 

[00:21:33] Jim Jansen: That's huge. That's huge. I mean, compared to the once-a-year hand count. You know from God bless the near nearsighted ushers, you know, we're trying to like count in the back You're like I know exactly how much we've increased in the last few in the last quarter. 

[00:21:50] Fr. Jamie: That's exactly right.

And this Jim for my brother priests that are listening This has impacted or influenced my ability to ask the bishop for another priest. 

[00:21:59] Jim Jansen: Oh, that's good. That's great. 

[00:22:01] Fr. Jamie: Keep keep going Objective, we, we are offering seven hours of confession a week and we can't keep up. That's different than saying, Archbishop, would you consider giving us another priest?

And then he says, well, why would I do that? And it's not objective data that's drive conversation. Does that make sense? 

[00:22:24] Jim Jansen: Yeah. No, I mean, I mean, it makes perfect sense. It's just like you can demonstrate the real, the progress that your efforts to cultivate these habits have made or not made and then make adjustments and One of the effects of that is you can say, Hey, there's a, there's a real sacramental demand here that is beyond my ability to meet alone. Can I, can I get a partner? 

[00:22:48] Fr. Jamie: That's it. 

[00:22:49] Jim Jansen: That's, that's huge. Father, talk a little bit about like, I mean, just, you know, I'm, I'm a nerd. I think we kind of like have this, this shared, but like, Why does this matter? Why measure these things at all? You know, why not? I mean, I'll kind of maybe throw out just a spiritualized argument against it.

Like, just be faithful and trust the Holy Spirit for the results. Why are you measuring? 

[00:23:18] Fr. Jamie: So not only do I agree with that statement, Jim, I really do. And I realized that depending on the birth order of the listener, the temperament of the listener and how God made the listener, they may bristle. They may bristle at this.

That's okay. What I would just say is at the end of the, at the end of the day, I am going to be held accountable at the end of my life for the fruitfulness of my parish, not just based on the number of parishioners that are registered, that is based on the number of souls in the zip code. 

[00:23:48] Jim Jansen: Yeah. 

[00:23:49] Fr. Jamie: And that is the conversation I'm confident my brother priests are not having.

We are, we are striving to make our current registered parishioners better Catholics. And what I would love to ask is how do we do that and evangelize in my case to the 80 percent of the zip code that is not Catholic. 

[00:24:13] Jim Jansen: Yeah. Well, and increasingly not attending anywhere. Yeah. It's not like you're you're you need to like go sneak into the, you know, Methodist church down the street and try and poach them like those people aren't going anywhere on Sunday morning. And so, there's, you know, everybody's heard of the rise of the nones. There are so many unchurched non practicing put another way. I'm not an atheist. I just haven't decided. I don't have any religious affiliation. The ability to invite them to the universal church of Jesus Christ isn't just a neat idea. It's kind of been the whole point from the beginning. 

[00:24:52] Fr. Jamie: So that's exactly right So if I can just put a put a plug in here for my bishop, I’m so grateful for archbishop Naumann So he he recognized that from 2016 to 2018 an organization known as Communio cut the divorce rate in Jacksonville, Florida by 24 percent. So just for our listeners that are wondering well, so what what's the big deal?

Well, that's a 70-million-dollar tax Save and that's just the money that's not talking about the Children and the marriages and the souls that are impacted by just broken hearts because my marriage and so what I would just say is. You know, another one of the things that we're doing is we're measuring our marriage enrichment, and we have moved 250 married couples in five months through marriage enrichment.

Now, before any of our listeners are impressed, I want to share with you, the governor of Montana has moved 5 percent of the state of Montana through eight hours of enrichment in four years. That is like 22, 000 married couples what they have seen in the state of Montana, Jim, they have seen for Protestants and Catholics alike, an increase in Sunday mass attendance or service attendance across the state by 23 percent in four years.

[00:26:20] Jim Jansen: Well, no, I mean, there's a lot there. So, let's break that down. You're saying the state of Montana has recognized. Marriage is good for the state of Montana. So, we're going to offer some basic in marriage enrichment programming and the effect in just four years is increased mass or well increased like church attendance across denominations like they're seeing real results.

And within the Catholic world, again, Communio isn't just operating within the Catholic world. There's a similar thing there, their work at Jacksonville. They've actually seen the divorce rate fall by almost 25 percent by their marriage enrichment efforts, partnering with just a few local churches. And you're like, okay, we're going to do that.

We're going to, we're going to invest in marriage enrichment and we're going to measure it. 

[00:27:18] Fr. Jamie: Yeah, Jim. So that's what I would say. So, I would say to my any leader that's listening. We can rise higher and look to, like, what is the greatest investment of my time, the greatest investment of my talent, and the greatest investment of my resources to impact the game in this parish, in this diocese, in this state, and in this country.

And what I would just say, Jim, is another something that we're measuring happens to be marriage enrichment, and it's because More marriages. We want stronger marriages. We want healthier marriages. We want more children, healthier children. And that is going to be the greatest investment in tomorrow. I realize this may be counter cultural for a lot of our principals that may be listening.

Catholic education, I'm committed to it with all my heart. That is not the most important thing. The marriages of these children that we call our students, that is the most important thing. And I'm sure that all of our teachers listening would be the first to say, my gosh, if I had mom and dad behind my efforts as a leader in the in the classroom.

[00:28:26] Jim Jansen: Oh gosh, yeah, I could do so much more. Exactly. And all the data back set up too. You know, as impactful as our schools are, they pale in comparison to the impact of the parents for better or for worse, for better or for worse. Father, I want to go back because I just want to imagine, you know, put myself in the shoes of somebody listening right now and their head is spinning.

They're like, Oh my goodness, like we don't have a vision. I don't have a team around me. I don't, I certainly don't have any cool head counting, you know, devices, like I want you to go back. You mentioned, because I think I remember the story. You know, you mentioned these prayer warriors. When you first came to the parish, you're finding everything overwhelming.

Those prayer warriors helped you find your team. Talk a little bit about that, that process, how the Lord revealed to you, again, not to exaggerate it, but the individuals he had gifted to be companions for you for this responsibility. 

[00:29:32] Fr. Jamie: Jim, thank you for, I mean, honestly, for anybody listening, like I'm the guy sitting in the corner in his rectory eating ice cream at night.

Like, I'm not a hero. I'm not, I'm a work in progress. What I would say, if you feel like your head is spinning is Jim is right. Going back to the beginning, we found first the prayer cover from the cover. I asked our lady, would you please spotlight the leaders that I need to go find? And once I'd found them and that took time, like you can't rush that. Once I found the right individuals to fill in the gaps where I was lacking built the right leadership team and we focused first on getting healthy.

Like, I'm a huge fan of Father John Ricardo and his acts 29 movement. If you're running 100 miles an hour, that's a mistake. I know that not every leader is going to do what he did. Like he, he kind of like stopped everything, focused on getting healthy, and then like, let's resume our mission. But I would say, honestly, Jim, I know that sounds crazy.

Sometimes the best thing we can do as a leader is to focus on getting healthy with my team first, and everything else takes a second, like a backseat to that. 

[00:30:50] Jim Jansen: So, talk about what you mean by getting healthy? 

I mean, not that diet and exercise are outside of the scope, what you're talking about, but you're talking about more than that. What does it mean to be a healthy team to get healthy? 

[00:31:04] Fr. Jamie: I'm a huge fan of Patrick Lencioni and the Amazing Parish, their approach to like, team health. So, the foundation has to be trust. If I don't trust you, How could I possibly go on mission with you? We have to be able to enter into conflict. And that doesn't mean that we respect each other. It just means that we're not going to go have a meeting in the parking lot after the meeting right here in the rectory. You know, so like we've got to get to where we can have conflict in the right way for the right reasons with the right person.

From there, I mean, Jim, I would say we've got to hold each other accountable. Like accountability. With just a little bit in friendship of accountability, man, we can move mountains. We can, like, we will live to see the day where mulberry trees are uprooted and they cast themselves into the sea, right? The results follow from all of this.

Without us first having a foundation, bedrock has got to be prayer. It's got to be the deposit of faith. From there, we've got to have the right people in the right seats based on how God made them, right? Do they see it? Do they want it? Do they have the capacity for it? And from that place? I would say Jim We've got to be able to really demonstrate that we can have wholesome conflict because I mean no disrespect to any of our listeners That are driving industry and driving revenue None of it matters as much as the salvation of one soul. 

[00:32:32] Jim Jansen: And, and to not Say, father, I, I trust you, but I don't understand why you're recommending that idea to, to be able to write with like, you know, you're my boss, you're my pastor, but father, I don't get that.

Frankly, that sounds a little crazy to me. Like, why do you want to go in that direction for, for a team to be able to have that conversation, is essential, and way more important than making widgets. 

[00:33:05] Fr. Jamie: So, I would just say this for our listeners. I think that data points matter for at least a certain percentage of the population that are listening.

So, Jim, I just want to name for our listeners. It was precisely because We were willing to build the right team to discern a mission and then never to compromise that in the last year, we have raised 408,000 more in tithing than the previous year that does not happen on accident. That does not happen by chance.

That happens because of clarity. Around a vision. 

[00:33:42] Jim Jansen: Well, and to be clear, that wasn't the fruit of a special campaign or asking. I mean, is that just, is that just Sunday collections? 

[00:33:52] Fr. Jamie: That is just Sunday collections. We have not had a capital campaign. 

[00:33:55] Jim Jansen: Yeah, that's huge. You mentioned like just asking the blessed mother to reveal to you these teammates and I'm just, I'm kind of fixated on this.

How did you know who was right? Yeah. You know, you've talked about the specific gifting, well, or the lacks, the gaps that you see in yourself. How did the Lord show you, I'm thinking, you know, I got to meet your team, Scott, Julie, they come to mind, like, How did the Lord reveal them to you? 

[00:34:25] Fr. Jamie: Yeah, so one of them was already on staff to be fair, Julie was our business manager, but Scott was not, and Scott still is not.

[00:34:31] Jim Jansen: Right.

[00:34:31] Fr. Jamie: So, what I've discovered in 10 years as a priest is sometimes, gosh, we are we are living this every day in the parish, but our parishioners are not on the same page. And it's not because they don't want to be. It's just. They're not living it and breathing it and talking it every day. So, what I wanted to do from the very beginning was go find a couple leaders for my leadership team that were not on staff.

I wanted, and because just in my, I think it's a great representation of most parishes. God's daughters are willing to volunteer like faster than God's sons. Yes. I went. Found. Like two of God's sons because like my whole staff is women So I went and found these these men and what I honestly asked was would you help us to identify the gaps?

What are we missing? What are we overlooking? What is the average ordinary parish thinking and questioning and asking that we are not ever gonna know without your input? But from there, I mean, I know this is gonna sound a little bit over the airwaves, but I just Jim I'm a simple man So I told the mother of God, I will pray all four rosaries a day.

I want you to spotlight and put my heart on a collision with the men that are meant to be on this team. And after I meet them, I'm going to measure. Using business practice, right? How did god make them? Right? What are their skills? But I I just need you to put my heart on a collision with theirs because I’m dense And I’m gonna miss it unless it's head on collision.

Does that make sense? Jim? 

[00:36:12] Jim Jansen: Yeah So you're saying like yes, you used you know, like little assessment tools this is this person's strengths gifting how they're made how they're wired, but you're like, uh, Lord, just make sure I don't miss it. I need to, I need to have a, a deep trust and connection heart to heart with this individual and then I'm going to invite them into the mission with me.

[00:36:36] Fr. Jamie: That's exactly right. 

[00:36:37] Jim Jansen: Yeah, I love it. And the Lord has gifted you with some, it's beautiful. I mean, you have a large parish, some financial means, uh, lots of staffing, but your leadership team is hybrid. There are some staff members and some volunteers. Yeah. Non staff professionals of the, you know, utmost, uh, quality and experience, uh, but they're not, they're not staff members.

[00:37:01] Fr. Jamie: That's right.

[00:37:02] Jim Jansen: I'm curious. How is that? Like, what did, what difference has that made? Because I think, you know, understandably, so sometimes larger suburban parishes, all of the leadership team are staff, but that's not the case. Uh, that's, that's not the case for you. Many of them, what, how many, two at least are volunteers.

[00:37:21] Fr. Jamie: That's right. 

[00:37:21] Jim Jansen: What has that done for the dynamic because they don't work for you They don't get a paycheck for you from you.

[00:37:27] Fr. Jamie: Exactly right, and I thank goodness because I couldn't afford I couldn't afford. 

[00:37:31] Jim Jansen: That's true. 

[00:37:32] Fr. Jamie: So, so what I would say is gosh, there was um, There was a an encyclical that was written by John Paul II before he died On the church in the new, like the third millennium. Remember in there, one of the members of my team was basically driving at “We've got to get past this idea that the parish is not a business.”

We need to do basic math with common denominators. The common denominator is we're both, whether it's a business model or a parish, we're both an organization. And so, from that place of we're both organizations with overhead, facilities, staff, et cetera, from that place, we can do basic math. And what I would just say is, back to that example from the image of the collapse of Rome, the church breathed a gift into the secular world.

I, I truly believe that if the church, if church leaders with an open palm have the humility to receive a gift back from God's sons and daughters in the business world that happen to be devout Catholics, they have their charisms. They have, they're living in a state of grace. They're living the sacramental. If that is the case, I only see great things for the future for the church, Jim. 

[00:38:49] Jim Jansen: Yeah. Well, you know, and there's precedent here too. Origin, early church father, used to talk about, you know, that We Christians, like the Israelites, get to plunder the secular world, in their case, Egypt, and take the gold for the purposes of the right, the glory of God, the salvation of souls, right? So, the Egyptians had all this gold and as the Israelites are leaving, they plunder the Egyptians, they ask of them, they take their gold and that's the gold that gets used for.

Right. The, the building of the tabernacle and the ark of the covenant and the worship of God and that like, we need to be discerning, we need to be careful, but that the wisdom tools, techniques, you know, head counters, all the stuff, Excel spreadsheets, software, those things can and should be put to the service of the gospel.

[00:39:47] Fr. Jamie: Yes. And what I would say, Jim, is if we are willing as leaders to look 10 years out. I know that's crazy for most people listening. If a parish could look or a school could look 10 years out, we'll just start with 10 years and say, what would it look like to look potentially beyond the current pastor or the current?

I think that's a very healthy exercise. Work back to a three-year picture, work back to a 10 year, a 10-year target. And then like, what is the most important thing for us to be working on right now, this quarter to see that one year, three-year, 10 year accomplished. I think that that gives leaders the ability to do is know what to say no to what's a distraction.

And to know what to say yes to and how to pursue it and my gosh, all of a sudden the accountability chart, whether it's volunteers or its faculty in a school, or it's, you know, your staff in a parish, this becomes much more objective if this, if this is the mission, if this is the goal, if this is the target, do you see it?

Do you get it? Do you want it? And it becomes far less. You know, Fr. Zarse is standing in the way of the best thing for the most souls Like let's get away from that because as Bishop Barron says the ego drama is so boring The Thao drama that is fascinating. What is God's dream for this parish? 

[00:41:13] Jim Jansen: We've been nerding out a little bit, or at least I have here, father, talk a little bit about, again, you haven't been there that long.

Talk about some of the fruit you've seen lives, lives being changed from encounters with, you know, the, the Eucharist praying with scripture, the rosary, right? The, the culture, the expectation, the support you're offering to help people begin to grow and mature as disciples. What have you seen? 

[00:41:42] Fr. Jamie: Yeah, so I'm going to just limit myself to four examples off the top of my head, honestly.

So, the first is two years ago, when I first got here, we had eight people in OCIA. Last year, we had twenty-four this year. We have forty. So, when I think about five months of marriage, we went from doing nothing for married couples after they were married. In five months, we've touched 250 married couples and three have self-reported this has saved our marriage. When I think about our leadership team in 12 months, Jim, I have rolled three people off of that team because at the end of the day, it was a bad fit. It was the right person in the right seat. And I know that everybody every leader worries like am I are they gonna leave the church if I let them go?

From this leadership team what I found was the opposite. They said father, this was not a good fit It was impacting my marriage. It was impacting my ability to be a good mother and I I’m grateful That you recognize this was burning me up inside. 

[00:42:45] Jim Jansen: Right. And now I'm free to do the thing that God is calling me to do.

[00:42:48] Fr. Jamie: Exactly. And now I'm free to do the thing that God is calling me to. And the fourth example that I want to give, based on using some of this best practice, when my roommate moved in, who happens to be the vocation director, He is 180 degrees the opposite of me. Nobody thought this was going to be a good fit for the rectory.

Nobody thought this was going to work out long term. Jim, I, I believe that he and I will become, he'll be the best friend that I have in the presbyterate by the end of this year. Because we are committed, we call it, it's a joke, but we call it our weekly date night. So, he is holding me accountable as a brother.

To the goals that I discerned at the beginning of the year and wrote down on paper God's will it was only five goals One of them I have really totally tanked on he is holding me accountable to this And he is the opposite of me. Like he is the last person I would have ever thought Could be my friend or my brother, and now fourth example because he recognizes The pastor is not making this about him He's not making this about his current leadership team or the present chapter.

He is How do we put the next pasture in the best position to flourish? Does that make sense? 

[00:44:04] Jim Jansen: Yeah. You know, it reminds me, you had shared, you have this rule of life that you've also invited again, some of the lay leaders, your leadership team. To speak into and to and to help you stay accountable. That might be a nice place to kind of kind of end because it's a beautiful vision of putting the first things first and drawing a team together to make sure that you're As an individual, all of you as individuals, but now you as the pastor are, are keeping the first things first.

[00:44:39] Fr. Jamie: So, I go back to this image of our Lord asking the question, what does it profit a man to gain the whole world and lose himself? And so, I think a pastor needs to have a personal rule of life. Which is what am I doing daily and weekly and monthly and quarterly and annually for myself to make sure that I never lose sight of Jesus.

And that could be a daily holy hour. It could be weekly confession. It could be a monthly priest support group. It could be an annual retreat, but then there's something very different, Jim. And that's what am I doing professionally? So, what is my professional rule of life, which is separate and distinct from my personal?

And that's what am I doing monthly? What am I doing annually? What am I doing weekly? What am I doing daily? As a pastor of this parish, I don't care if it's a tiny parish under big skies, small town USA, or if it's like one of the top five in the archdiocese, it doesn't matter. Like what am I doing to drive results for the souls entrusted to my care?

And what I've asked my leadership team is to hold me accountable for the professional rule of life. Ask my inner group of three, which happened to be two men on my leadership team and my brother priest living in residence, hold me to the personal rule of life, because if I have to compromise one of these, let's make sure the professional and never the personal, because I could lose far more. I could lose my own vocation. 

[00:46:10] Jim Jansen: Yeah. Father, what do you have on your Professional rule of life? I mean, I think if I remember, right, these are things that keep you in the space where you're you as like the pastor, how you're made Father Jamie Zarse, that, that you're operating in the spaces where you're at your best.

What do you got on there? 

[00:46:32] Fr. Jamie: Absolutely. So, so in no particular order, as the, as the visionary, as the pastor who is the visionary, I am defining the culture, which makes me the chief reminding officer. I also responsible for ensuring that our leadership team is always working on the most important thing and that we are healthy.

So, we are kind of. Priority to health or, or like trust over results. But what we found is the results follow trust, the responsible, kind of like a president of a school. We need resources. It is not the most important thing, but we've got to have them because if we have resources, we can build the right accountability chart with people in the right seats that are driving fruitfulness. So those are some of the things I don't want to go any further because I know that can be overwhelming. But those are some of the, the key priorities. If father only has so many hours in a day, only so many days in a week where he spend his time, what's the best use of his time? And that's what we've discerned at our parish. 

[00:47:42] Jim Jansen: Yeah. That's so good. Father, as we, as we close here, What advice do you have for, you know, parishes, even individuals, they're, they're trying to, they're trying to live as disciples. They're hoping to cultivate, you know, a fuller life of discipleship. But they're struggling to foster a real habits of discipleship in their lives. 

[00:48:08] Fr. Jamie: At the end of the day, it doesn't matter how healthy the team is. It doesn't matter how much money is in the bank. If we're not driving results on the currency of souls. If we are not helping more souls experience a conversion, come to know the love of the Father, live in deep friendship, and then union with Jesus, entrust their lives to the Holy Spirit, and give their, their open palm to Our Lady to draw them closer to the heart of Her Son, Jim, what are we doing?

What I would just say is, humility, I think is key, and then the open palm to go find what I don't have, that follows, and then releasing myself from the outcome. These are key. 

[00:48:56] Jim Jansen: Amen father. Thank you.

Thank you for sharing a bit of your story. Thank you for the. The time with us. Any, any last words of encouragement for those who are listening? We've covered a lot, a lot of ground here. 

[00:49:09] Fr. Jamie: What I would say at the end of the day, whether I'm in a parish that's on mission, I'm in a parish that we're working, like we're working to get there.

We're just not there yet. No matter where I find myself, if you can keep yourself between the two hearts of Jesus and Mary, I'm I happen to have a bias for the five foundation stones, but just keep yourself between the two hearts of Jesus and Mary. That is an infallible means for growing in holiness. And God will, we will never outdo him in generosity.

[00:49:39] Jim Jansen: Amen. All right, everybody, you know, somebody who needs to hear this conversation. Somebody who's, they need a team. They need the gift of brothers, a prayer cover, uh, whatever it is, whatever jumped out to you. You send this out when you're at your destination and tell him why. Tell him why you want him to hear this.

Father, again, thank you for being with us. Thanks for everything you're doing. Thanks, Jim. God bless. All right. Thanks, everybody. Thanks for listening to the EquipCast. We hope this episode has inspired you to live your faith and equip you to be fruitful in your mission. Stay connected with us by going to equip.archomaha.org God bless and see you next time.