[00:00:00] Jim Jansen: Hey everybody, I just sat down with Nicole Cook and Kristi Priesman of St. Columbkille parish here in Papillion, Nebraska. We have a fantastic conversation talking all about the alignment phase of building a clear path of discipleship. If you. Have a large suburban parish. If that's your experience, uh, if you're just entering into the phase of alignment, you're going to love what these ladies have to share. Take a listen. 
Hey, everybody. Welcome to the EquipCast, a weekly podcast for the archdiocese of Omaha. I'm your host, Jim Jansen. Now let's dive into some encouragement and inspiration to equip you to live your faith and your dreams. And to be fruitful in your mission, let's go.
All right, everybody. Welcome to the equip cast. Uh, this episode is part of a special series on how to build a clear path of discipleship. Uh, today we're going to zero in on the alignment phase. Once you've built some stuff and you've begun to tell people, how do you help the various ministries? in your parish to align around your plan for making and maturing disciples, your clear path.
See, a clear path is a parish framework designed to help people take their next steps as disciples of Jesus. It's your plan for making and maturing disciples. And parishes that have a clear path know exactly how they connect with people, how they foster conversion, how they help people grow as disciples, and how they equip people as missionary disciples.
The concept is simple, but building a clear path doesn't happen overnight. It happens in phases of assessment and discernment and implementation and communication and alignment that, which is what we're talking about today. Actually, on location, which is fun. We don't do this very often for the podcast on location here with Nicole Cook and Kristi Preisman from St. Columbkille ladies, how you doing? 

[00:01:55] Nicole: Great.

[00:01:56] Kristi: Good. 

[00:01:56] Nicole: Lovely. How are you, Jim? 

[00:01:57] Jim Jansen: I'm doing, I'm doing great. I'm really, I'm kind of geeked out about just being present. Like, you know, this stuff actually travels pretty well. So, this is really, this is really fun. Good. Uh, okay. Give us just a little bit of like context because all the work that you all have done in, in building a clear path to happen here at St. Columbkille, um, give people just a little context. Thumbnail sketch. What is what's what's in Columbkille like? 

[00:02:22] Nicole: Okay. Um, so St. Columbkille, we are in Papillion, Nebraska. So just a suburb south of Omaha. Um, we have about 3000 registered households in the parish somewhere, somewhere between 10 members. Um, we have We have a school, a kindergarten, 3rd grade school.
Oh, pre k, 3rd grade school. That's newer. I have to remember that. We have, we're predominantly white. We have a strong, um, uh, Vietnamese community here as well as a growing Hispanic community that we serve. We are. Adjacent, I guess I would say to off at Air Force Base. So, we serve a lot of military families and retired military families.
What am I forgetting, Kristi? 

[00:03:11] Kristi: Um, we have a very supportive, uh, welcoming community. 

[00:03:17] Jim Jansen: And it's growing too, right? Real estate market. There's a lot of undeveloped land still on. So, so like the parish is growing in, in part because the real estate market, there's new people moving in all the time. 

[00:03:28] Nicole: Yeah. There are lots of developments around Papillion and lots of young families.
Um, I think which works to our advantage in, in trying to grow an active and engaged community here at St. Columbkille. We have seven masses every weekend. We did this count this week in another meeting, seven masses every weekend and, uh, 10 daily masses throughout the week. So. 

[00:03:49] Jim Jansen: Yeah, that's a lot. So yeah, there's a lot here, which is, I mean, we'll get there, but like that, that makes it, that, that presents a unique circumstance and some unique challenges to building a clear path of discipleship.
So, okay, so let's just kind of jump in here. If we're honest, you all did most of the work of building a clear path of discipleship before it was cool, before there was a book. How long have you guys been at this? 

[00:04:13] Kristi: Well, we started, Nicole and I figured out, we started back in 2018, but don't let that intimidate you.
Um, we, we had a lot happened since 2018, but we were very… 

[00:04:25] Jim Jansen: A lot of people had a lot happened. 

[00:04:26] Kristi: Yeah, we were blessed to, um, have… It's now Archbishop, right? Or Bishop? 

[00:04:36] Nicole: Uh, Bishop Jim. Jim. S Jim James. Golka. 

[00:04:39] Kristi: Yes. Bishop. 

[00:04:39] Nicole: Lemme say that again. Bishop Jim Golka. 

[00:04:42] Kristi: Yes. Um, come to St. Columbkille and give a just beautiful talk on stewardship.
And... 

[00:04:49] Jim Jansen: it was a parish mission, wasn't it? 

[00:04:51] Nicole: No. 

[00:04:51] Jim Jansen: Or no. Had or just to talk? 

[00:04:53] Nicole: We were a stewardship parish. In name, at least. And we were trying to give shape to that at the time. And there were 10, um, volunteers and staff members who attended them agreed stewardship conferences in Wichita. 

[00:05:07] Kristi: Yeah. 

[00:05:07] Nicole: And we all heard Bishop Golka speak there and were so what he had to say about stewardship and what it means and how it has, its beginnings have nothing to do with money, um, that we brought him here.
It was like September of that year, and we did a day long workshop for parish leaders and those who are interested. 

[00:05:26] Jim Jansen: What really inspired, because I've heard you say this before, just that, that, that his talk at the conference and then his talk for the parish really was a spark. What, what, what was it like? What did that stir up in you all? 

[00:05:39] Kristi: I know for me personally, it was his message, which actually ended up in, you know, because it's the truth in what we call our, um, personal journey, which we created after, um, or kind of while we were changing our mission statement here at St. Columbkille and our mission statement is helping everyone to take their next step to be more like Jesus.
And so, what. Bishop Golka, I think really helped us recognize. And again, we hope we all know this, right? That everything we have is a gift from God. None of this is ours. And it's our responsibility to give these gifts back to others. And so our work in the church, whether it was, um, you know, our priests or it was our staff like Nicole, or it was the volunteers, There was just this movement of our hearts to recognize the value and the importance of giving back, I think, and letting that guide this whole process. 

[00:06:49] Nicole: Well, and seeing God as the ultimate gift giver. I was just watching Bishop Wilkins talk again yesterday as we put together some information for another program that we're doing, and we continue to refer to it. And at one point, yeah. And at one point in the video, he says, God cannot not give. And say that again. God cannot not give that's awesome.
So, the double negative in there. Right. But that really became the centerpiece of like Christie said, our personal journey. 

[00:07:19] Jim Jansen: Yeah, talk about that because and we'll, we'll attach this. It's on your website. We're going to link to the website. We'll, we'll put it in the show notes, but you all spent some effort really thinking and praying through how are we going to articulate the spiritual journey for people so, so they, so we then can, can tell people how, how we will help them as a community of faith.
Talk a little bit about what it is. Give people a picture of it and how it was developed. 

[00:07:47] Nicole: So, when we heard the call for a clear path of discipleship, we were like, what the heck does that mean? Um, there was no book yet. Right. Um, and I think we took a far more philosophical approach to it as we started. So, what does it look like to journey through life in relationship with Jesus?
And, um, at the time the archdiocese had shared, I think it was like a 12, Step, there were bridges, there were, you know, the conversions along the way. 

[00:08:13] Jim Jansen: There was a lot of stuff. 

[00:08:14] Nicole: There was a lot happening there. And we appreciated what it, what it said, and it really helped us begin. But then we tried, we looked at it and said like, we can't give this to random Catholic in the pew and say, this is what your spiritual journey is going to look like.
So, then we started to, um, to really examine that and to pull back. And, you know, we started kind of like my grouping. What, what is this step in the process look like? And what does that say? And that I'm trying to think of the process that involved. You know, Kristi says, as Kristi said, we started in 2018 and one of the things we did was restructure our pastoral council.
And we talked a lot about insider language and outsider language. And we spent weeks or if not months looking at the words on this journey and saying, if You know, if anybody walks in the P into the church, um, well, they understand what this means. Will they be able to relate their life to this journey, even if they're brand new to their faith or just beginning to question?
Right. Yeah. Um, and so this. This personal journey took shape, and it then has shaped so much of what we've done over the last couple of years at St. Columbkille. And, um... 

[00:09:28] Jim Jansen: and maybe just cause I can see it; we've got it here on the table for our conversation. You know, if you want to, if people want to imagine, you know, God's at the center and then there's this, this kind of, this is clock, if you will, you know, kind of started at 12 o'clock and it kind of moves through what's going welcome and inspire and connect and learn.
And then you have images, you know, kind of this beautiful imagery of fruitfulness of bare soil and then a seed sprouting and then, you know, fruit being produced. And you guys use this everywhere. 

[00:09:59] Nicole: We do. 

[00:10:00] Jim Jansen: Yeah. Talk a little bit about it. I love that. I just like full disclosure when things go wrong. So, St. Columbkille is not my parish, but when things go wrong in the Janssen family household in the morning, I ended up at St. Columba kill. So, I've gotten to see this several times and I love it. Uh, just how, how well you have just inconsistently introduced people to it but share some of the stuff you've done.
Cause it's really, it's very encouraging. I think. 

[00:10:26] Kristi: Yeah, well, and if it's, if it's okay to, I would like to interject, and it was funny how Nicole talked about the insider and outsider language because I was definitely the outsider working with our crew a lot of the time. And... 

[00:10:40] Jim Jansen: right. Cause you were, you're, you're on the leadership team, but you're not a staff member in St. Columbkille.

[00:10:44] Kristi: No, no, no. Yeah. 

[00:10:46] Jim Jansen: Which is, which is very cool. 

[00:10:48] Kristi: It's been a great time, but what I really love about our personal journey is that, you know, you mentioned Jim, that it's kind of like a clock, but we also realize that we are human and that sometimes the time goes backwards as well as our faith journey and our faith and our choices and our decisions.
And so, I think the one thing about our personal journey that we really wanted to articulate. And if you think about it, as we were doing this, we hit COVID and then we lost all these people because of we couldn't come to church anymore. And so, we were very deliberate on, you know, what are we going to do?
How are we going to meet people where they're at? Cause their faith, you know, their faith life, their faith practices, things had changed for everyone. And not that we wanted that to happen, but it had. And so just that being so deliberate in creating it, but then also answering your question, then being deliberate in getting it.
Out there. Um, and just letting people know that here at St. Colum Kill, we love them wherever they're at. And, um, you know, father Dave and Father Tom and Father Moser, I mean, they have always been so beautiful about just this making Saint Colom kill this place where we can grow in our personal journey.
But if we fall down and we make mistakes, that's okay too. And they still love us here and they're going to help us get back on the path. So, Nicole, you can just kind of talk about what we've done with it. 

[00:12:31] Nicole: So, I think one of the things that's interesting is how we used this to sort of build up infrastructure to then support the programs.
Um, and that was all because of our pastoral council that we, we reformed and, um, and their ability to look at what we were doing and be like, Oh, you guys have to try again. We have to do a few things really differently. Um, 

[00:12:51] Jim Jansen: That's great though. I'm just like, how cool is it to have a pastoral council that has a vision and a sense of mission and who's actually offering counsel?
I mean, you're just like, I mean, I can hear you're like, you're presenting to them and they're like, good try. Why don't you try again? Like, that's great. I mean, not that you want a pastoral council to like, you know, say try again, but it shows that there's an authentic interaction happening there. It's really beautiful.

[00:13:17] Kristi: Well, and I think it's also important that the staff was also involved in this process. We had We put our kind of three circles together, so it was a very collaborative effort, and I think that's the real key and probably part of what took us a little bit longer was because we were taking into account so many diverse perspectives between our staff, our parish, our parish You know, our parish council and then that pastoral advisory team, but it's also, I think, what makes it so beautiful and so relevant and open to the parishioners at St. Columbkille. 

[00:13:54] Jim Jansen: Yeah, well, and again, not that it's been easy, but. There's been a come, I think it seems like from the outside that the community has embraced this and that they've received it again. I love coming. I say it's like it's in the bulletin. You know, like father is holding up a giant like handout as he's describing, describing it in a homily.
And I've even heard people as they're giving a testimony, let's say inviting someone. to a ministry moment, right? Okay. We're having alpha for young adults. They're like referencing. So like, so I'm kind of a six o'clock girl, right? And they're referencing this context of like, I was ready to connect, and I wanted more, but I didn't know how.
And then I came and then it just, it's become this beautiful language, which is really, I think it's set you up for the maybe even more challenging work of alignment. 

[00:14:48] Nicole: Yeah. 

[00:14:49] Jim Jansen: So, let's, I want to dive in there to alignment. So, okay. Alignment's all about right. Helping various ministries in the parish find their role in how they, you know, connect people to your clear path.
You all have this great conviction. That you're like, we're not just going to tell people how they fit, but we want it. We want to discern with them, talk about that conviction and then how it shaped your approach to alignment. 

[00:15:16] Nicole: So, um, Christine and I, when we talk about like the work that we have done, as she mentioned, we had these three circles of leadership, um, and we use the circle images because we all overlap.
So. Christine, I serve as part of the pastoral advisory team. Um, we meet once a week for two hours, um, with our priests and one another. And when we started, uh, with Phil Asala, who is a familiar name at the archdiocese cause he, he jumped ship and went there to help lead really beautiful things. Yeah, he's fantastic.
But, um, Phil was. was our director of mission at the time. And he was talking with other people in similar positions and talked with another parish in town who had, um, who had decided where they believed the various ministries in their parish belonged on their path, on their clear path. And what he heard from them then was that all of the ministries were like, huh?
That's not what we do. That's where we belong. 

[00:16:19] Jim Jansen: A lot of resistance. 

[00:16:20] Nicole: A lot of resistance. Um, and Understandably so. I think we've realized as we've met with different groups, how much we don't know about the, the little things that they do or the way that they really bring people to Jesus. And so, then we decided we really had to take a different approach.
What was this going to look like? Um, and I think we, first we threw the idea for a couple of years, I mean, like really a couple of years of having mission catechists. 

[00:16:50] Jim Jansen: Yeah, say more about that. I love, I love that idea. I know you, it, it's continued to evolve, but just explain a little bit of what you mean by that, the mission catechist.

[00:16:58] Nicole: So, the idea was that we would form people within the parish who would just have a more insider knowledge, if you will, about what does it mean to be missional? What does our parish mission mean? How can we bring people along? And then they would go in. Um, into ministries that they were already a part of or into groups that they were interested in helping and move those groups along.
Um, and that was the idea, but then like the, we kept bringing it up, but like really over a couple of years and it just never made sense. Like you could never give it shape. Um, and the reality of, Any of our groups, you know, cause most of them are volunteer based of being able to go in and sit with them each month for, you know, an additional half hour or an hour and shape them in the mission and change the work that they're doing was like, that's just not practical.
That's just not going to work. So, we kind of scratched that here within the last year or so. 

[00:17:58] Jim Jansen: Yeah. But I love, I mean, I love that. I mean, thank you for sharing that because, you know, sometimes when. You know, you read like a business magazine or a testimony in a ministry, you know, like the transformation at St.
blah, blah, blah parish. And it makes it seem like there were never any false starts and every idea they had came in a beautiful moment of prayer. And everybody's like, yeah, father, let's do it. And it's like, it just doesn't work that way. 

[00:18:23] Nicole: No, we've had lots of moments where we're like, Oh, that wasn't it.
I'll try again. Yeah. 

[00:18:29] Jim Jansen: So, talk a little bit, cause you have this conviction, like, okay, we have to help people see, right? Like, cause it seems like. leading with vision, good communication, and being present to people to help them kind of discover how they fit. That didn't go away, even if the idea of these mission catechists did.
What have you ended up doing? 

[00:18:48] Kristi: Well, I would think, or I would start and say that You know, you just said these ideas like come from God and they're beautiful. Well, I do believe that this was our path, you know, God has, we have been open to him and, and now this is where we're at. So, so even though it, it won't necessarily come to you in like this aha moment, I think it's just really important to remember that this is God's work.
This is God's work for his people and whatever any parishes decide to do that if they're just open and they're collaborative and they communicate with each other and you just realize that your overall goal like for us is to just help everyone take their next step to be more like Jesus, God will give you What you need, it may take you however many years, but man, can you form some amazing relationships and just grow in your own faith?
So, I will say that, but, um, but where we're at now with our alignment phase. Is that there was the, our idea of our mission alignment tool, um, kind of came to fruition and there was a smaller group that started work on this and kind of started to put it together. And it was another, another very collaborative process where it, it was again, started kind of with this small group.
But then we would talk about it and Pat, and then we would talk about it with the parish council. I don't believe the staff until more in the end had had input on it, but we didn't also want to bother them with that because they have a million other things going on. Um, but what we have done with that, and we should mention this, that from our personal journey.
We realize, and again, if you're looking at our personal journey, that our first stage is that someone would be longing for something more. And so, in, in order to meet those people where they're at, we found that we have to welcome them and we have to have hospitality and then once. Kind of people figure out that they're being drawn to Jesus, then that is our time as a parish to inspire and then you can keep going around, um, the to see how the parish pathway and our personal journey align.
So, what this mission tool does is it. We are going out with the help of Nicole, you said 26, 26, 26 volunteers between and staff to help us gather this information using this tool. And so, people are meeting with the heads of our ministries and groups and activities. And they are taking the time to sit down with them and meet them.
And what we're finding is really beautiful is that they're learning about these ministries and, and what each of these ministries are doing for our parish. And so, our ministry leaders are asked to kind of evaluate their group as far as how do they welcome, how do they inspire, how do they connect, how do they teach or, you know, do their.
people that they serve, learn, and then how do they love. And one thing we've said is that we do not want this to be evaluative at this time.

[00:22:06] Jim Jansen: Right, it's not a test.

[00:22:07] Kristi: No, no. 

[00:22:08] Jim Jansen: Good or bad. 

[00:22:09] Kristi: No, no. 

[00:22:10] Jim Jansen: Who has a higher score? Knights of Columbus or the Lady's Guild? 

[00:22:13] Kristi: Yes, yes, absolutely. Because we have to have people who are strong in every area of our parish pathway.
So, if your group is really good at welcoming and that's it, then yay. for us because we know, or we will know in the future that this is the group that someone new to St. Columbkille needs to go to. But if we have our people who are really in their, their faith development of, Hey, I understand that Jesus came here to love and serve.
tell me what I need to do based on all of the information that we collect from our mission alignment tool, then we will be able to align these ministries with the love and we will know that, okay, this is where we send our folks who are in that phase of their faith journey. 

[00:23:05] Jim Jansen: Oh, that's so good. I mean, I can't help, forgive me, right?
I'm a, I'm a guy, but like, I just get thinking about a football team. It's like, Um, I need my punters to be that they have to kick and they, and they can be skinny and short, they just have to kick the ball very far, you know? And like this idea that like, to be a good punter, you somehow need to be built like a lineman.
It's like, no, everybody has a role. Everybody has, has their place. And in many ways, this, this exercise, I think it seems like it's setting up the whole. Like the pastor and the kind of pastoral council and the staff to help shepherd the community so that nobody's getting lost, and people can find what they need when they need it.

[00:23:49] Nicole: And it also like as a, as a tool to build like infrastructure and support from the parish, like when we looked at this personal journey initially too, we realized that, so like you said, it's kind of like a clock. And we realized that from noon to four, right? So, people who are just beginning to long for something more, they're just beginning to be drawn to Jesus.
We didn't have. We didn't have a person on staff dedicated to that. We didn't have monies allocated to that. And so, like, we know from experience that sort of examining where you are in relationship to this helps you do your work better. 

[00:24:23] Jim Jansen: Yeah, I mean, we're not, like, talking specifically about assessment, but I remember, like, when you guys did that, because I, I heard the stories.
You're like, oh, gosh, no wonder we're not connecting with people as quickly and as deeply as we want when they show up. Because. There's nobody there. We don't have anything doing that right now. Kristi, I want to give, I want to give you a chance to nerd out just a little bit. You're a professional, right?
You're an educator. Tell people about this tool. And if you get too nerdy, I'll stop you. But like, I want to give you, I want to give you a chance because it's, it's beautiful. I think to me, how you have brought Uh, a, a professional experience into the pro into this pastoral process. Um, so just give people a glimps like under the hood of this tool.

[00:25:07] Kristi: Sure. Okay. Well, I like data and, um, and I like research and I think father Tom and, and Father Moser and, and the people will kind of giggle at me, but this really is. I think because I always tell them in the past that we can't really make decisions if we don't have the data and we're not evaluating and, and, and I'm not using evaluate with a mission alignment tool, but if we're not collecting that data to help us make decisions, because we can hear what people say and we can have all these anecdotal conversations and we can say, well, we heard seven people say this.
Well, yeah. You, you can't make a good decision based on that. And so, one of my kind of geeky hopes for this tool is that we will gather all this data and it's going to be a lot because Nicole, you said we have 58 plus... 

[00:26:02] Nicole: 58 groups, ministries, activities that we're. That we're doing this with.

[00:26:07] Kristi: So, this is going to be a chunk of information that comes in.
And so once, and our, we, we set a deadline for it, but sometimes we know how the church works, but I know people are submitting the, um, submitting the Google forms already. But then once that information comes in, then we will set up our steps and processes. For analyzing the information that comes in. And I think that will be, it'll be, it'll take us a while, but it'll be a beautiful part again, of, you know, determining based on how people see their work in their ministry, where they align.
And then the next step being, okay, so now we can kind of start to put these questions On the path and, and then deciding what areas do we need to improve and not necessarily what ministries do we need to improve? But like Nicole just mentioned, if we're still a little short around the inspire, then what might we have to do?
But if we're, and then if we're really strong in some areas, then maybe we can learn from what. Those ministries are doing and how we can strengthen other ministries. So, I think the data is what we need to make clear, effective decisions for moving our parish forward. And most importantly, and I, Jim, you said something earlier and I can't remember what the words are, but you just think about what.
What are, what our world is like right now? And so many people are lost and focused on the things that, you know, are really harmful to our souls. And so, I'm just so, I'm just so hopeful that all of this work will really just. Make St. Columbkille an even more beautiful place for people to come and connect with God because ultimately, we know that that's what is most important.
So, I hope that answered your question. 

[00:28:21] Jim Jansen: That's fantastic. I mean, as you were talking, it's a lot of work and it's clearly something that the nerd in you loves, but I was going to ask, it's like, Why, why go through all of this? Like what's it, and you just, you know, like, like, why does this matter? And you just kind of answered it.
You're like, I mean, this is where people connect with God. And, and if we can get better and help people connect with God more easily, more deeply, I mean, that's what it's all about. That's beautiful. So, I just had a super practical level. It is a survey. That ministry leaders, ministries are filling out together, and that's going to be providing you some data about where do we, where are we really strong as a whole parish, whole community of faith, where are we weak, where do we maybe have some redundancy overlap.
It just gives you a full landscape because. I mean, anecdotally, it's hard to analyze 56, 58 ministries anecdotally. I mean, you can't. Actually, and you can't even, even if you had one person who could conduct all of the conversations. Like, you need that for the scope of what you're dealing with. 

[00:29:30] Nicole: Yeah. And we were, um, as we looked at that, at the number of groups that we have within the parish and wanting to have these conversations with all of them, we were like, Oh, which, which five are we going to start with?
Right. And we were like, that's not, that's not going to work. We can't just have five on the, on the path this year and then add five more next year. And gratefully. So, I will give kudos to Christie. Um, She has spent at least two hours every single week for six years now going on six years being at the parish in the middle of the day, in the evenings, on the weekends, um, giving her time and her expertise and her talents and gifts to this entire process.
And like Kristi, we have so many amazing and wonderful and engaged volunteers who are doing this work with us. Um, So we have probably about eight or 10 staff members who are working with two or three, one to three groups. And then the other 20 some people that are doing this or however many 18, um, that are doing this are volunteers, current and past members of our pastoral council, um, who people who are just engaged in ministry work, who are passionate about this and want this for the parish.
And they're the ones helping us sort of do this. It's almost shotgun tea off to the mission alignment. 

[00:30:52] Jim Jansen: Because you, I mean, you thought about, well, maybe we'll just do a couple and you realize, no, we have to do everybody we have to, which meant because of the scope, man, you got to get a lot of volunteers.
Right. Okay. So. Maybe a little off script, like, I know you're not done yet, but what are you learning? Just at the very beginning, I know some of these conversations have happened. What's, what, what, what already before all the data's in, I know, but like, what are you, what are you learning already? 

[00:31:19] Kristi: Well, we did pilot it.
We've piloted the survey, you know, because we needed to figure out if it was something that was going to work for us. And I would say in my piloting and then Nicole had, she's already done her first one is just the beauty of sitting down with these ministry leaders and learning about what they do and how much they Like dedication and love and service and passion that they put in to leading their ministry.
It's incredible. Like it's so beautiful. 

[00:31:57] Nicole: And their own realization of what they're doing, because I think so many of us get involved in something that we're like just signing up to be involved in the, in this ministry or in this group. And yeah, I can serve at fish fry or whatever. And then, you know, you end up being the leader of a thing because that's how church works.
Yes, Last woman standing. That's right. Oh, I guess I'm in charge. I guess I'm it. And you know, and now you're a few years down the road and you're just doing the thing because that's the thing that you do. And this conversation is looking at it and saying, but you also do this, and you do it really well.
And you're bringing people to Jesus through these seemingly really small tasks. And isn't that beautiful? And we just don't take the time for that kind of reflection anywhere in our world. And so to sit down and have, you know, whether it's a 30 minute conversation or an hour, an hour, whatever it might look like that to really reflect on what you do and why you do it and how you might do it differently or continue to improve in ways that you want to improve.
Like that's just a real gift. 

[00:32:59] Kristi: Yeah. And I think it, Jim, if I can just say one other thing too, real quick, what Nicole just said, it is giving them, it's giving our leaders an opportunity to reflect and figure out what they want to do better. Because sometimes with light, when life is just so busy, we just keep doing our thing and nobody's really complaining.
So, I'm just going to keep doing my thing. But when you have time to have a conversation with someone and really, truly Think about and reflect on your actions and what it is you're doing. It is, it is really neat for, to hear people go, Oh, well, I guess I never thought about my role in inspiring and, but I have this great idea of what we can do next year.
And so, I think the whole. process is actually going to bring, I hope, a lot of new life even to our ministries and our parish. 

[00:33:53] Jim Jansen: Well, yeah, as I'm listening to you all, like what I can hear, you've created, you've used your clear path and the personal journey like this language to create a framework so that you can affirm people in maybe a gift that they had forgotten they had a contribution that they didn't quite recognize they were making and it sets up unity.
It's like, you know, like, Hey, you guys are also doing this. And do you know who's ready for the, who can help people for the next step? And it just, it helps people recognize. And that's part of like, you know, I know a ton of our listeners are familiar with things like Gallup StrengthsFinder and Working Genius and all those little assessments.
Half of the benefit. of, of those tools, I think, isn't just my individual personal knowledge, but now I have a language to understand and appreciate and honor that teammate who I knew was a gift from God, but it was taking a little bit of faith at the moment. And now I have a word to say, Oh, that thing you do, It's called analysis and, and thank you.
It's a gift. Sometimes it's a little annoying, but like it gives it, right. You have this language to affirm, uh, the contribution of these ministries. Uh, okay. So, let's just be, let's just be really honest. Let's talk about some of the hard stuff. What do you do if a ministry, maybe they're not healthy, right?
Like they're, they're struggling to. contribute to the core mission of the parish. Um, they don't seem to be capable of connecting people to the clear path. How do you handle that? Cause that's, that's hard. Nobody wants to have that conversation. You know, even our bravest, most courageous pastors, you know, they'll walk into a hospital room, you know, in the midst of death and grief and, and fearlessly, but then, you know, talking to the ladies guild, uh, about, you know, being a little off mission.
It was like, I'd rather not. How do you handle those things? 

[00:35:51] Nicole: Uh, luckily we aren't there yet. Um, I mean, I think, I think a couple of things when we aren't to the point of like needing to prune ministries or knowing what ministries need to prune, if that's a thing that happens. Sure. And very honestly, I've been a part of the parish and involved in the parish for nearly 20 years or 20 plus years now, I guess.
And I know a lot of these ministries pretty well and looking at the list, like there's nothing that jumps out as like, Oh, I got to get rid of them. They're just dragging us down. 

[00:36:19] Kristi: Yeah. 

[00:36:19] Nicole: Um, but there are places that I know we can help people grow in how they serve the parish and how they serve one another and how they grow in their own faith life.
Um, so that's what I hope really comes from this is I don't, I don't know how you handled those conversations very honestly. Cause Like you said, there's, there's way easier things to do, like walking into the room of someone who's dying. Right. Like that's seemingly easier. Um, but I don't foresee right now having to say to somebody, this just isn't it.
We just can't support what you're doing at all. Um, it might change, right? We might have to say, well, we're going to continue to have you meet and do your thing, and we're going to help you improve in this way. But you also have to recognize that if we, um, need the, the space or the resources for X, Y, or Z, that's going to take precedence.
Yeah. Um, that's great. So, in helping set some priorities, I foresee that being one. Strong result of this. Um, but as far as like pruning ministries or pausing anything long term, I don't, I don't foresee that, I guess. And I could be totally wrong, but that's just where I am with it.

[00:37:32] Jim Jansen: I love how you're entering in.
I mean, you're just, you're entering in with an open mind and an open heart, and you have it predetermined. There's not like conclusions that you've already, uh, come to. That's beautiful. Ladies, what do you think? What's, what's next? Like, as you, as you think about, and obviously you're, you're, you're deep into this, this process, you know, trying to help ministries, uh, discern together how they fit, uh, what's, what's the future?
Cause you've been at this for, for a while, um, and you've seen a lot of fruit. I mean, we had talked about that, you know, the, the, the. The conversion, uh, moment that you all have in Alpha is beautiful. And on its, what, how many times? 17th season. Yeah, 17th season. Yeah. Which is beautiful. I mean, you've seen so much fruit.
Do you have an inkling as to where the Lord's leading next? 

[00:38:25] Kristi: Well, so we are also in the process of completing a strategic planning process here at St. Columbkille. Right. And I foresee that This information is really going to help inform many of the decisions that our strategic directive committees are making.
And just, again, you know, we've used the term framework and our personal journey and our parish pathway, because I, as an educator, I believe you have to have the theory to support what you do. And so, I believe that this. Information and how we can create the clear path is really going to help in our decision making, um, for our strategic plan.
I agree. And hopefully just bring more people to Jesus and, and help them take their next step. And so those are very big things right now, but that's all we can do until we. Get the data. 

[00:39:32] Jim Jansen: I love it. It's really, it's really beautiful. Any final advice as you think about, you know, before we turned on, on the microphones, I, you know, took Nicole in a little time, time machine journey.
Like what would you say to people? You know, if you could, if you could talk to yourselves, you know, go back in time, two, three years ago, um, I mean, maybe when things were really hard in the middle of COVID where everything was topsy turvy and confused, um, and to those who are listening now are like, I don't know.
And they're just, you know, like this, this, the idea of trying to enter into alignment conversations seems scary and overwhelming. What advice would you give? Wow. 

[00:40:12] Nicole: I know I had one answer earlier and now I'm not sure it's the same. I don't know. Um, I think to look for the, the fruit along the way, um, and never shortcut the prayer.
Like we learned that really early on as the pat started to be, we had set aside two hours, but parish life is what parish life is. And. We would be like, Oh, well, we've got two hours, but I really could get out of here in 90 minutes today. And that would help me. So, you know what, we're going to just do a quick, quick prayer, and we're not going to take time for Lectio today.
And we're going to wrap up a little early. And we learned very quickly that the conversation changes when you set aside the time at the beginning for quieting your mind, turning your attention to the Lord and listening to what he is saying to you that day. Um, so we start. Our meetings with Lexi. Oh, and if it takes 10 minutes, okay.
If it takes 25 or 30, great. And, um, just to really rely on, on that and to look for the fruits of that prayer each step of the way, because the temptation will be there, right? Oh, yeah, there will be roadblocks along the way from unexpected people and unexpected voices and, and it will feel really defeating.
But. When you're looking for the fruit, when you're looking for the good in this process and listening to the ways that God is calling you to continue this, um, it's, it's a little easier to just keep, keep moving along. 

[00:41:44] Jim Jansen: It's beautiful. 

[00:41:44] Kristi: Yeah, it is. And I think to the, because it is sometimes when we, when you think about the volunteer and the hours that, that people will put in.
And it's like, Oh my gosh, I have to go to another meeting. But I think too, for anyone out there that's like, okay, I think I could help with this, or we could do this. I think also thinking about the way that we grow personally in our own relationship with. With Jesus, but also the people in our parish. And so that even through all the struggle and all the challenges and, and what has seemed like to take forever, sometimes the beauty in the process is, um, can come in so many ways and it's not just the end result.
It's the. The journey part of it as well, but you do, you have to, you have to be, you have to be tough. You have to have a little grit, a lot of perseverance. Um, and you just can't quit because ultimately, we want to get to heaven and we have to have a relationship with God. And we have to, we have to help people have that.

[00:42:54] Jim Jansen: Oh, thank you ladies. Thank you. Thank you for the conversation. Thanks for everything you do. You know, you guys are really, I mean, you are. Entering into this phase in this process again, I think with a courage and a precision and on a scale that, that, you know, is bigger than most. So, thank you. Really appreciate it.

[00:43:13] Kristi: Thank you. 

[00:43:13] Nicole: Thank you. 

[00:43:14] Jim Jansen: All right, everybody, you know, somebody who needs to hear this conversation. Um, maybe they're a nerd. Maybe they, maybe they really, you know, they're like, Oh, I want to see that assessment. So, uh, go check out the show notes. And when you get to your destination, uh, share this out with a friend.
Thanks everybody. Thanks for listening to the EquipCast. We hope this episode has inspired you to live your faith and equip you to be fruitful in your mission. Stay connected with us by going to equip.archomaha.org. God bless and see you next time.