[00:00:00] Jim: Hey everybody, welcome to the Equipcast. My name is Jim Janssen and I'm your host. And I sit down with Archbishop George Lucas of Omaha today, uh, here in the archdiocese, great conversation about Easter. He says, loves to give people the quiz that if there were a one question quiz on Christianity, what is the most important thing?
It's that Jesus is alive. He talks about how we can bridge the distance, uh, between what we know to be true and that application in our own lives. Tell some personal stories about what he gave up, uh, for Lent. And, um, powerful experience on a pilgrimage that continues to shape his Easter. We talk a little bit about journey of faith and pastoral planning.
Um, some of the, the difficult decisions we've had to make and how we can bring the Easter mystery into that inviting Jesus, uh, to be a part of our. Entire experience of faith that Jesus offers us, not just the cross, but the whole paschal mystery, the cross and the resurrection. He also gives some really practical advice that when we find ourselves in circumstances, uh, that we don't want, that we never would have chosen how we can.
See our way through that and reconnect, uh, with the Lord. It's a great conversation today. Perfect for enjoying with chocolate or whatever you gave up for Easter. Go ahead and grab your treat and take a listen. Archbishop Lucas, welcome back to the Equip Cast. How are you?

[00:01:36] Archbishop Lucas: I'm doing fine, Jim. Thanks very much for inviting me. 

[00:01:38] Jim: Yeah, well, I'm ha really. I'm always happy to have these conversations. I think we're, this is maybe our second, uh, in a row where I think we're kind of settling into a little bit of a tradition of, uh, giving you a chance to talk about Easter together.
So this is, I'm excited to do this. You really don't need much of an introduction. You're the Archbishop of Omaha, but I, I thought it'd be fun if maybe you could share with us just, you know, by way of introduction, maybe something about your personal faith journey that, that we might not already know. 

[00:02:06] Archbishop Lucas: Good.
So I was baptized and I was a year old, pardon me, a week old. And, uh, so, uh, my faith journey began then, I think, even though I didn't, didn't realize it. So it, and, and, you know, in some ways not really, uh, remarkable, not a lot of big, uh, dramatic moments like St. Paul would have had, for example. But I was thinking, as we've been celebrating Lent, about, um, trips I've been able to make to the Holy Land, which have been a real privilege.
And I just would share, you know, I had the chance to celebrate Mass in the, uh, at the empty tomb of Jesus and to, you know, visit Calvary, which I knew would be very important and dramatic moments. And they were, they didn't, didn't disappoint. But, uh, especially on the first trip that I made, I had a It's kind of a surprising moment of, um, I don't know, just kind of both a challenge and a, and a consolation.
I, I think we visited the, a church called St. Peter in Gali Kantu. So it's the place of where the cock crowed, where Peter denied Jesus. And it's all, it's built over the, the prison, which is really just a pit where Jesus was held overnight before he was taken to Pilate in the morning on, uh, on Good Friday.
So I just remember it's a modern church, so there's nothing really, um, you don't see anything ancient except you're able to go down into the pit. But it was just a very profound experience visiting there the first time. And I could recall it when I went back, of just really being taken by his
Sin at that moment. Um, but then also just, you know, reflecting on, on my own. So it was, it was very sobering, uh, to, to think of my own betraying the Lord and my relationship with him in a variety of ways over many years, never totally running away. Yeah. But, you know, plenty when you add it all up, but then also that just the, you know, the consolation of the Lord's just feeling his presence very close as, as he was close to Peter at the time of his denial and it just felt him, you know, very close to me then.
So it, it, it, it's been a, become kind of a paradigm for me for kind of my Lenten prayerfulness, you know, to be not afraid to look at my sins because I still have them, but then also realizing that, that, that that's a place where the Lord wants to. Meet me where he wants to meet, meet all of us and that he's those things that sort of confound me or that I'm ashamed of.
He's not ashamed of me and you know, is um, is very present. So that's helped really to make the, the Lenten journey more meaningful of, uh, for me. And it was really as a result of the grace that I received at that place, which is kind of an out of the way place, you know, it's not, it's not one of the main, one of the main attractions, you know, of a trip to the but it was, um, Just goes to show you, you know, the Lord comes looking for us and, and, you know, is willing to reveal himself in places where, where we're maybe kind of surprised and, and, and in that case, happy to, to meet him.

[00:05:05] Jim: Yeah. Well, and I, I love the way you just talk about how not only did you have this surprise grace, but you've been able to return to it and let it shape. Um, I remember the first time that concept was introduced to me. And yeah, just being, being able to lean into like a profound grace that I had experienced years ago and being able to return to it and still let it kind of nourish and guide me.
That's wow. That's really beautiful. Okay. What's one of your favorite things about being the Archbishop of Omaha? 

[00:05:39] Archbishop Lucas: Besides having these conversations with you? Um, I, that's a good, you know, I, I, I don't have many things, you know, on a given day that I would, that are, that aren't my favorite.
You know, that, that sounds kind of dumb. If everything's my favorite, then maybe nothing is, but, but I, I would say the, one of the things I appreciate most is just the variety of, of my. Ministry and it's, you know, variety and, you know, you just named the category. So, you know, we have, uh, urban and rural parishes.
We have people of all ages, of course, we have a variety of cultures and, and then of course just, uh, people at various places on, on their own journey as well as, as we all are. Some of that we can sort of plan for and, and try to. Uh, offer support and whatever, but then there's always, always surprises because I can, I'm maybe not so different from others.
I often come in with my assumptions of, of who I'm meeting with or what their experience is. And if I'm halfway open to another idea besides the one that I have, you know, I find that there's something more beautiful, more. Rich there than, than I, you know, I would have anticipated. 

[00:06:46] Jim: Yeah, little divine surprises.
I remember, I think this was at Arch Omaha Unite, um, it was the panel discussion. I think the, uh, I think it was Calvin Mueller at the time, I think, but, you know, asked you, it's like, all right, Archbishop, what, how do you approach Just, you know, bringing, I think it was bringing the Holy Spirit into your day.
It's like, well, I talked to him at the beginning of the day about the people that I'm, that I'm going to see. And I, and I can, you know, I can see that, that habit. It stuck, it stuck with me and, uh, you know, tried to imitate it myself on, you know, on my drive and drive into work. And it stuck with me. It's like, when, when we let the spirit kind of cue us up.
He, he gives us that, that openness and that ability to notice something that we 
may not have expected, you know, an unexpected gift or grace. 
[00:07:32] Archbishop Lucas: Yeah. Sometimes we can anticipate it, but, but I think that the openness is a preparation I should say for, for something that I haven't anticipated, but yeah, I'm going to receive.
Yeah. I have to confess it's, it's a, the moment that I look at my phone during my prayer time in the morning because I have my calendar on it and just to recall, um, what's at least scheduled for the day. There'll be, there'll be some. Uh, spontaneous things, of course, along the way, but 

[00:07:55] Jim: yeah, yeah, those are the hard ones with like, like, no, no, no, I have something else planned for this time, but wow, that's great.
Thank you. Thank you for sharing, sharing that. Okay. So we want to, you know, as we. I want to talk a little bit about the Easter mystery here. I thought it might be fun just to do a little exercise here. I'm pretty sure most of the Equipcast listeners are pretty familiar with Easter. They could tell the story.
But maybe, you know, with new eyes, imagining that there's someone who's never heard about Jesus. What would you share with someone, uh, about Easter? 

[00:08:29] Archbishop Lucas: I would have to set it up a little bit. So, you know, the, the Easter mystery is kind of the high point or the center of what we call the, the kerygma, you know, the central mystery of God's loving plan, uh, uh, for us.
So it, it, it's, and, but I can say it pretty briefly, there's lots more to say about it, but here we find ourselves at some distance from God, and I think it's almost everybody's experience. experience that I feel like here I am down here and God's way up there somewhere. Yeah. And, and there's this distance and I can't bridge the, the distance.
And, and we have come to understand that that distance is not God's design. It's because of our sinfulness, starting with Adam and Eve and the, the collective and personal sins of, of humanity, including, including my own. So. I'm at this distance from God, but that was never God's original plan. When he created us, we remember the intimacy he had with Adam and Eve in the garden.
So God looks on us with great love and mercy and rather than just sort of challenging us or ordering us to try to climb up to where he is, which would be impossible. He stoops to us and, and gives us his, uh, mercy builds this bridge who could say, but, but it's, it's done in a very personal way. So God has a plan for, for us to be reconciled to him and then to receive this eternal inheritance, which is always his desire for us.
He's created us for life and God's saving method is the person, his only son, Jesus Christ. Who has taken on a human nature. He's human and divine. Both. He's the son of God and son of Mary come to live with us. And we can, we read in the gospels about the life, the public ministry of Jesus and the culmination of that is Jesus laying down his life for us on the cross as the clear sign of God's love for us sinners.
It's nothing we could earn or. or deserve. Jesus has entered into, he hasn't sinned himself, but he's taken on the burden of sin and really the effect of sin, the ultimate effect of sin, which is death and the suffering that led up to it. So it was a, it was a painful, humiliating. Uh, death, but here we get to Easter, but, but the central truth of our faith is Jesus is not dead.
He's alive. Uh, he's risen from the dead, uh, as the son of God, he's more powerful than the effects of all our sins, more powerful than death. He's risen from, from the dead and now desires. It's the desire of his father too, that, that, that we share in that, in that risen life. So the dead end that we've been on, you know, a life that.
That doesn't lead anywhere. Ultimately at the end, uh, that dead end is open and, and, uh, the path to heaven is open for us through the power of, of Jesus death and, and resurrection. We can talk more about, about this as we go on, but the point of celebrating it is not simply to remember it, but to, but to think of how we can enter into it.
So to ask ourselves, okay, so what does that have to do with me? You know, it happened a long time ago, really happened. It's important to know that it did, that Jesus really lived. He really died. He really rose from the dead in a particular place. Uh, why visiting the Holy land can that
reality. But so here, here we are in 2023, you know, what, what about us? We can answer that question. But the, but the, you know, to answer your, your kind of simple question, Easter is the day that Jesus rose from the dead. That's a unique and all of human history that nothing like that. Uh, ever happened. It's not, it never had happened before and it's not repeatable.
Yeah. Jesus, the son of God conquered death, conquered the tomb and came back alive and lives now gloriously at the right hand of the father. You know, I've sometimes done this when I've given talks to younger people or sometimes Some years ago in confirmation homilies, you know, if I were going to give a one question quiz about, about Christianity, you know, what the question would be, what's the most important thing that we know, uh, most important thing we can know in, in this life.
And my, my, it's my quiz. So in my mind, the answer is Jesus is alive. 

[00:12:38] Jim: Yeah. That's, that's great. I love that because there's so much in that fact. I mean, it just, you know, I spend a lot of time thinking about this, but. Just his giving his life for us isn't actually enough. I mean, that'd be very kind and very loving, but it's the, it's the, no, he gives himself for us, and it's like, if you could conceive of, you know, death as a monster, he lets the monster eat him, and then he destroys it from the inside.
You know, and, and that, yeah, the fact that he's alive not only has a whole bunch of, you know, theoretical ramifications. It is real practical ones for, for me today, for how I, how I live. 

[00:13:20] Archbishop Lucas: Yeah. It's a, the illustration, the proof, however we want to say it, uh, that, that Jesus is who he says he is. So, you know, as we, as we learn about him in the gospel, so as somebody maybe who's doesn't know much about Jesus, if we take time to really listen to his words and watch his actions in the gospel, it's very clear that he claims to be the son of God and that he claims to act with the power and the authority of God. 

[00:13:44] Jim: Right. Which is part of the reason he. Got killed. Right. That, that didn't go over well. 

[00:13:49] Archbishop Lucas: No, because it's, I mean, it's, it's a, in many ways, an outrageous claim. And for a religious person, someone who loves God and trying to serve God, it sounded blasphemous. Yeah. Which, which was very offensive to pious ears and to pious hearts.
So Jesus has made this claim and either he's a liar or delusional or What he's telling us is true. And then we need to pay attention to him and listen to him and put our faith in him. And so the resurrection is the, the demonstration that what he claims about himself is true because only God could have power over death.

[00:14:29] Jim: And it goes way beyond. It's like, he's not just a good guy with a lot of advice. He's a good guy with a lot of advice. who conquered death. And I, yeah, I love it. You said, like, nobody's ever done that. 

[00:14:43] Archbishop Lucas: So, so we can conclude that that advice is true and good for us, you know, so that, that, uh, what Jesus has in mind for us as the living son of God is all good because that's what we understand.
About God himself. It's how, it's how Jesus reveals the nature of the goodness of God himself in his own actions. Right? In his own words. The way that that, that he lived. And then we can put faith in it because of the resurrection. Right? 'cause of Easter. 

[00:15:10] Jim: But I mean, but at, at least for myself, I find some of what Jesus teaches to be hard , some of it doesn't make... 

[00:15:18] Archbishop Lucas: you're, you're the only one.

[00:15:18] Jim: Good, good, good. Yeah. It's like easily, gosh. Like sometimes it doesn't make sense. I'm like, I actually don't. Believe this and wouldn't. Were it not for the fact that the guy who said it rose from the dead and he has this kind of certificate of authenticity that changes the way I Respond to his teaching.

[00:15:38] Archbishop Lucas: Yeah, so it can be When he teaches his disciples to pray and offers that to us telling us we can call God our father We can yeah believe that if he says blessed are the poor in spirit We can believe that it doesn't. That's one of the things that's sometimes hard to believe. Blessed are those who mourn or who are persecuted.
Yeah. Yeah. Amen. If he can, if he tells us, this is my body, this is my blood, you can believe it. So there's a number of levels of kind of seriousness. You might not know seriousness is the right word, but you know, um, levels of importance, things more central in our faith and maybe more peripheral, but Jesus is not.
playing with us, you know, and not giving us bad advice or, or in any way misleading. Yeah. Misleading us. It's, um, it's true. So as, as you say, you know, some, some of these things, things are hard to believe. So as we wrestle with them, one of the ways that, that we, that I find, so I'll just speak for myself. I find that I can sort of settle the, the doubt or the question is by spending more time with Jesus and, you know, listening to.
More of what he teaches, uh, uh, or what he, or more of what he's asking of me or, or think more about what he's offered me. And then there's a context for this struggle and ultimately often I say, well, I'm, I understand that this is what's being asked of me. And since you're the one that's asking Jesus, I'm going to do my best.

[00:17:05] Jim: Oh, that's great. So you mentioned a little bit ago that, you know, okay, celebrating Easter is, is, is this like we're, we're celebrating this cause we're trying to draw this mystery. You know, the, the fact that he is alive more deeply into our, you know, into our lives. You celebrated Easter a few times. Um, I think if I've got the, if I've got the numbers right, over 25 times just as a bishop.
This will be the 24th. 24th. Okay. So not, not quite there yet. Uh, 24 times, uh, as a bishop. How do we come to Easter with new eyes, right, to really appreciate the mystery and start to, to let it show forth in our lives? 

[00:17:42] Archbishop Lucas: Yeah, that's a good question. So I, I think that maybe the obvious thing would be to commit to, to celebrating, uh, with our parish communities, the liturgies of Holy Week.
Mm. Yeah. There's other way, more remote ways, you know, we can prepare during Lent, but they're unique. liturgies, we might say, and, and very powerful. There's something there for us as a community, also something there for us, for us personally. And each of us is on a different spot in a different spot in our journey of faith than we were a year ago or 10 years ago.
Even though, as you say, we celebrated Easter. Many times we celebrated year after year, but part of the church's wisdom to understand that, you know, where life goes on, you know, and keeps throwing things at us. And, um, So we're, we have, uh, different blessings, different challenges. So, so to, to be there, kind of show up, I think, you know, that would be my first encouragement to show up on, on, um, for Palm Sunday, uh, we celebrate the Christmas mass the next day.
That's a beautiful liturgy also, it's, it's traditionally celebrated and Holy Week, it's a little different. tone from sort of reliving the passion and death of Jesus. But everybody's welcome at the cathedral on that Monday morning, but then to celebrate the liturgy of the Lord's supper and of the Lord's passion.
And then, you know, some, uh, liturgy that's, I think, scares some people off. Sadly, the Easter vigil, it's long. And by, you know, my sort of normal standards of the time we spend in church, but, but, but beautiful. And yeah, it has right at its center, the initiation of some new, some new members, but if not that, you know, Easter Sunday morning.
So the ceremonies are beautiful. Most parishes do their very best to try to make the. the experience, a prayerful, joyful one for, for, you know, for those who, uh, those who attend. So that would be the first thing. Yeah. Secondly, I think, you know, to, to, in each of the four gospels, we have the, the account of the passion, death, and resurrection of Jesus.
And that's, you know, pick one. We're reading in the liturgy this year at church, we're using St. Matthew's gospel, but. Any of them, the passion for Matthew will be read on Palm Sunday and always on Good Friday it's from St. John, but, uh, anybody can understand that. And so it was just, again, wherever we are, whoever we are, we can a few paragraphs of that at a time or a chapter or something leading up to that or, or, or, uh, during, uh, during Holy week, you know, the scriptures are the living word of God.
So we meet. There isn't Jesus there. We can believe really that's him talking to me. He's proclaimed that that word is proclaimed when we're in the church, but we can open our Bibles and, and the Lord is with us there too. 

[00:20:28] Jim: Yeah. I, I, I mean, as I, you know, celebrate Easter, hopefully with more to devotion, but I have a few more under, under my belt, the routine of it.
And that's not even the right word. I should say the familiarity helps me get deeper into the mystery. You know, it's like, Oh, I've heard this story, except for I really haven't, or at least I haven't, I never heard that. And I never really, and just the liturgies themselves and the, you the repetition. Boy is needed.
You know, we don't do a lot of that in our education anymore, but they used to say repetition is the mother of all learning. And I can see it as I'm trying to get my mind and my heart wrapped around Easter. 

[00:21:12] Archbishop Lucas: Yeah. As I said before, that's a unique event in all of human history. So even though we repeat the celebration of it, because it's, it's unique, it's worth encountering again and, and, and lingering over and our lives, many of us, they're noisy and kind of cluttered and, um, the liturgies of, uh, Holy Week, especially that, that liturgy can do this always, but those liturgies in particular help us hit pause and really take time because they do take a little extra time and invite a little more reflection.
Yeah. It enable us, I think, to go deeper. We'll, we'll eventually get back to normal life, but this is a way of helping us understand from where we'd come and then, then have a context for moving ahead. Yeah. 

[00:21:59] Jim: Yeah. I mean, it really is too much to take in, in one, kind of in one sitting. Yeah. We need the repetition.
I want to talk a little bit. I think, you know, part of the repetition, I mean, it seems like one of the central facets of the, of the mystery is Hope, you know, just, just, just that it changes the way we live. It changes our hope because we see, you know, what the, uh, what has been offered to us, uh, see that Jesus is really who he says he is and we can trust him.
I mean, I'm going to go out on a, on a limb here and say that, you know, being a priest, being a bishop and archbishop, probably not immune to discouragement. What are you personally finding a hope in the Easter mystery this year? 

[00:22:42] Archbishop Lucas: Won't surprise you if I say, you know, we're, we're on this journey of faith together and in our archdiocese and it involves some management, some structural questions to deal with, uh, you know, with current realities of, of population of number of priests.
And so forth. But, um, from the very beginning, before we embarked on this, on this journey, we had already been working towards a goal of our parishes becoming missional communities. We have a, we have a vision for our archdiocese that we've been living with, articulating, trying to pull apart. And, and as much as anything, that's, it's, it's, it's where we believe the Lord is leading us, the kind of church, the kind of people he desires us to be.
Uh, the, the grace he, uh, wants us to experience more. I find all that very, very hopeful that there are, um, you know, plenty of things that discourage us in the, in the world around us. And I, and there's things within me that discourage me, um, frankly, sometimes it piles up, you know, but I, um, Have just, you know, in these sort of later years as a bishop, you might say really found new, uh, encouragement and, and new hope in, in what I hear is sort of a renewed invitation from the Lord to, to not give into discouragement and, and to not see, uh, that diminishment is the, is God's plan for us or just sort of what we're stuck with.
Again, as we listened to Jesus, his images, his challenges are all about abundance. Uh, you know, about an abundant life, you can hear about abundant trust, abundant forgiveness that, you know, you name it, you put that answer in front of it. And it's, it's typical of the, of the life in the ministry, the preaching of, uh, of Jesus.
So I'm finding a great deal of hope in that. And I, I mean, it wouldn't be true. There wouldn't be any hope. And I wouldn't be experiencing it if I didn't, if I wasn't really focused on this. truth that Jesus is alive. Yeah. And, and, and his commitment to be with us in the church. So the churches that we see as the body of the risen Jesus were incorporated into through initiation, but this isn't, you know, it's not a shriveled up old body and it's not, it's not a living organism that's it's on its way to eternal death, but we're on the pilgrimage that, that ends in eternal life.
[00:24:58] Jim: Yeah. Well, I love. You know, the Easter readings, as we enter into the Easter season, after we get, you know, kind of past like the, the initial kind of like, you know, the, the tomb being empty, right away, we're into Acts of the Apostles, and we get to hear this, all these stories that show us what the church is about.
Looks like and it's this it's this abundance again It seems like you know The biggest the biggest problem that the early church have is I'm like what do we do with all these people because I've been just you know five thousand six that all of the people entering the church because of the hope and the preaching and The in some ways the message of Easter that's being proclaimed by the Apostles Um, and that's us, right?
That's, that's who we are. That's our church. 

[00:25:45] Archbishop Lucas: Right. And so the, the, um, beginning with the acts of the apostles, we learn what the church looks like, but we also want to learn what the Lord, what the church is for, you know, what, why have one, why have a church. And this is so great. The question which for which we have an answer, uh, it's, it's Texas again, right back to kind of, I think where we started our, our, our conversation.
So Jesus has established the church so that we can encounter him in our time and place so that we don't just have a memory. We do have a memory of the, of the death and resurrection of Jesus. It's a living memory in the church, but, but it's not. Only a memory. Uh, we encounter the risen Jesus and in our life together in the church.
You not only learn about him, but we get to know him and he makes himself known to us and makes the power of his resurrection present for us in our particular circumstances. So we experienced that in a. In a corporate way, although it touches us personally in the, in the sacraments. So it's, it's in the sacraments particularly where the power of the paschal mystery, the death and resurrection of Jesus gets applied to me and you at particular points on our journey.
But through the power of the Holy Spirit, we encounter Jesus in other ways too. And those are, are different, but really crucial to our. Really desiring the sacraments, I think, but, but really crucial to our growth as, as disciples. And this is really the action of the Holy Spirit. And we see it in the acts of the apostles, uh, right, right away.
People are not only being turned on by the news of the death and resurrection of Jesus, but are being invited into a living relationship with him and, and there. They experience that, that that's real, that it's not, it's not a pious imagination. It's, it's not a cultic, uh, following of, of somebody or somebody's some idea or whatever, but the living Jesus, the risen Jesus is, is.
He's here for me. He's looking for me. He makes himself available to me and the Holy Spirit helps us access that. Yeah. 

[00:27:50] Jim: You know, you, you mentioned just the, the context here, you know, that we're experiencing the archdiocese as we, as we enter into pastoral planning is, you know, we, we head out on this, this journey of faith.
I mean, you know, Many of us, um, individually, corporately found ourselves in situations where we would have preferred to not have to make some of the hard decisions we did. You know, that if we're, we're back to the Paschal Mystery, we spent a while in the garden. It's like, oh, Father, you know, if it's possible, let this cup pass me by.
What would you like to say to those? you know, who experienced some of those, those challenges who are now kind of approaching the implementation of those changes in their parishes. What do you want to say to, to them as they begin to step forward now into some of these new experiences of faith that maybe they didn't choose.

[00:28:46] Archbishop Lucas: Yeah. So none of us chose the experience of faith. You know, the Lord offered it, has offered it to us and it's always his invitation and his, his initiative. So we have to be careful not to try to contain it too much or, or tame it. Uh, you, you might say, and then that's not a judgment against anybody. We all tend to do that.
We want to settle into a comfortable way of living and practicing our faith. And the truth is the Lord always wants to offer us more and he's also asking more of us, you know, as, as, as our, as our own journey of faith corporately and individually goes on. So we have had to stir things up a little bit.
But not simply to invite people into the paschal mystery of suffering so that we can, you know, come to know the joy of the resurrection more, but there is some suffering in it. And I acknowledge that and I don't take it, take it lightly at the same time, the encouragement for all of us is really to focus on the Lord.
Um, to, to listen to his voice, to listen to his word and to really, again, ask ourselves at this point, maybe it's a challenging moment for us or for our parish. What's Jesus offering me right now? Because he's not absent from this. Moment. Yeah. And, and he's not sort of on the run or turning his back on us or, or anything.
He's very present with his risen power, with his glory, with his abundance. So what's, what's he offering? What's he asking of us? Because that's. Those are sort of the two sides of the discipleship coin. Jesus is always offering us something. He's first of all offering us his friendship, offering us a relationship with him.
So, uh, how is he inviting us to experience that in maybe different circumstances? So maybe with a larger community of people, or maybe even in a different place or a different time on, uh, on the weekend that we think, well, you know, why can't he just leave me alone? What's wrong with that? With eight o'clock, but, but, but we, you know, the circumstances of our lives or provides the context for our meeting with, with the Lord.
So there, you know, some circumstances are more important than others, but none of them are, are, are useless and, you know, sort of out of the range of the, of the Lord. But then also what can I bring? So if I've, um, had the experience of, of being part of a parish my whole life and being at a church building that, that I love, and maybe I, my ancestors helped, helped build it.
You know, so that's all, that's all been given to me. You know, that's not my, my doing. It's all been given to me. Well, so what can I bring? So what am I being asked? You might say in return for all of that. And maybe what can I bring to another, to the neighboring parish community or to some others who may not have experienced that?
And then maybe can I, maybe they'll be bringing something and we can recognize a multiplicity of the gifts of the Holy Spirit in a way that, that we haven't, haven't done before. It happened already in the Acts of the Apostles and it can happen to any of us that we just kind of get static in our, in our practice of the faith and it becomes part of our routine, which isn't a bad thing, but we, but we're sort of dulled to the, I'm afraid, to the action of the Holy Spirit, to the new thing that Jesus might want to be offering.
Us or, or, or asking of us, this has to be at the center of our journey of faith in the archdiocese. And I really offer this as, uh, as encouragement, as a challenge to people in every parish, whether you're in the biggest parish or the smallest one, it affects us a little bit differently. Um, but so, so our circumstances are different, but it's the same Lord.
And, um, he's, he has more to show us than, than we've seen so far. You 

[00:32:18] Jim: know, I really appreciate. I think that advice, you're like, well, what, you know, what is, what is Jesus offering? What is he asking? In some ways it's, it's kind of, you know, it's kind of like we've come full circle in that I think the unspoken lie that makes, you know, changes or circumstances that we don't like even more difficult is the god's not in this.
You know, this somehow caught the Lord off guard, which, which is ridiculous when you say it out loud. But that's, at least for me, that's where I find myself when I'm in a place of discouragement or circumstances that I don't like. I somehow imagine that he's not there. When in fact, one of the central mysteries here we are in, in Easter is like, no, he, he is here.
He's alive. And he's offering me something. And he's inviting me to, to something more. He's asking something.

[00:33:13] Archbishop Lucas: Yeah. I mean, we're in this uncomfortable and in some ways sad time of, of diminishment and you know, in the, in the experience or the practice of faith in our country and our archdiocese isn't immune from that.
So we know that there are fewer people who are participating in mass on the weekend, fewer Catholic marriages, fewer baptisms. So many families who love our Catholic schools don't. Don't feel called to be part of the church or to give anything to the church beyond that. Again, this isn't a judgment against anyone.
We're just, this is where we are. This is, you know, so, so we're in this. So we think, you know, in the, in the, this season, especially of the diminishment of the self sacrifice of Jesus in his suffering and death, even before that in, in his, uh, taking on human nature, you know, and, and sharing our. Limitations, our, uh, our, our weaknesses.
And we know that those, you know, that, that he in the end isn't defined by, by diminishment, but he enters into it conscious of, of offering a pleasing sacrifice to his heavenly father. And then through that experiences the glory of, uh, of the resurrection and that's what he offers to us. He offers us the whole Paschal mystery.
not just the cross, but he does offer the cross. So the cross is real. He tells us to, we should take it up day by day. He never promises that it's all going to be pleasant or, or easy, quite the opposite for paying attention. We know that that's sacrifice and, and willing giving up something that. That, that is comfortable or that we're used to for, uh, you know, in response to the Lord's invitation and in union with him, that that's going to lead us to glory.
We don't necessarily taste the, the sacrifice and the glory all on the same day. You know, we, that's, it's a, it's a journey. It's a passage from death to life that, that we experienced with, uh, with, with the Lord. But that really is at the, at the center of the, of the Easter mystery, the, the Paschal mystery.
Amen. Amen. And it is for us. We're invited into it and we're invited to experience the whole thing. Not simply the joy of, I should say, simply, but not only the joy of Easter. 

[00:35:29] Jim: Yeah. Thank you. That's great. I mean, I'm still like, just like Jesus invites us, that phrase you shared, I'm still stuck on that. Right.
Jesus invites us to the whole Paschal mystery. The cross. And the resurrection, you know, and sometimes we think we're only being offered the cross, but it's like, hang on, there's a resurrection coming. Or sometimes we only want to cling to the resurrection, but we know that there's a, there's an invitation to the cross that precedes that.

[00:35:56] Archbishop Lucas: You know, you don't want the cross. You're not alone. Nobody really wants it. And when Jesus prayed in the garden the night before his death, he prayed that it Past in his human nature. It's the most normal thing to want. Yeah, he didn't want to not to have to suffer Yes, there's nothing abnormal about that.
There's nothing unholy about it but if we're going to really allow ourselves to be identified with with Jesus more fully and Really to experience the power and the joy of the resurrection that has to be also part of our experience and we have to embrace it Um, you know, the way we, you know, like ice cream, but, but, but we, but we have to see it as, again, as part of the Christian journey and the blessing of, of life in the churches that we're not doing, doing it alone.
Yeah. We're in a, in a community of believers who are walking with us, helping, helping us. We hope helping one another carry the cross at a given moment and continuing to proclaim the promise of the resurrection. 

[00:36:58] Jim: That's fantastic. Our time has gone so fast. You know, as we enter into the Easter season, you talk about sometimes we, that you mentioned, will intentionally embrace sacrifices of our choosing to prepare us.
You know, it's kind of a deep Catholic tradition to give up something for Lent and then to be able to enjoy that for the Easter season. Uh, is there anything in particular you're going to be enjoying Easter season now after having set it aside for Lent. 

[00:37:27] Archbishop Lucas: Um, yeah, so I'm, uh, trying to avoid eating between meals.
I don't eat a ton anyway every day, but I do if I see something, you know, along the way during the day, I like to pick out or enjoy it, but particularly if it's sweet. Um, so I've been trying to avoid that, uh, uh, during, during Lent. Just again, it's a reminder. Yeah, just a little, yeah, little, uh, uh, little reminder.
Yeah. So I'll, I'll enjoy that at least. Uh, at least for a while. 

[00:37:53] Jim: Yeah. So yeah, folks stop by the chancery will more likely to see the archbishop at the at the candy bowl or the The snack station. That's great. Well, I appreciate thank you for your thank you for your time. Thank you for your ministry You know, I the hope that we we talk about uh in in easter.
I see that in you I mean, you know that the you know, the challenges of the church face. I mean we do kind of find ourselves you know largely in in an age where We could easily believe that there, that there's only diminishment that being offered to us. Um, but I appreciate your, your example and your continued reminder, uh, that, that the Lord is here and that he's, he's offering and he's inviting something.
So thank you. 

[00:38:35] Archbishop Lucas: Yeah. Thanks. Thanks for this opportunity to, to, uh, Preach the pascal 

[00:38:39] Jim: mystery. Yeah. All right, everybody. So, you know, somebody who needs to hear this, uh, maybe somebody who needs permission now to start. No, I don't think anybody needs permission to start, uh, snacking between, between meals, but really just to the, the reminder that the Lord offers us the whole, uh, paschal mystery, the cross and the resurrection.
So happy Easter and, uh, share this out with someone. Who needs to hear it? God bless everybody.