[00:00:00] Jim Jansen: Hey everybody. Welcome to the Quip Cast. So today I sit down with Lisa Kelly Lisa's the author of The Spiritual Path, embarking on A Journey of a Lifetime, a beautiful goal setting process that weaves in the spirituality of Saint Ignatius. We have a fun conversation. I was really blessed personally by the book.

We talk about the book, we talk about her own journey. She's a cancer survivor, missionary down in Dominican Republic. Wife, mother. Really a beautiful conversation, and we talk about how do you discern, talk about the the cycles of growth. Talk about really inviting the Lord into this process as you get ready for the beginning of the year and as you start to think about goals for the future.

You're gonna love and appreciate this conversation, take a listen.

Hey everybody. Welcome to the Equip Cast, a weekly podcast for the Archdiocese of Omaha. I'm your host, Jim Jansen. Now let's dive into some encouragement and inspiration to equip you to live your faith and to be fruitful in your mission. Let's go.

Lisa Kelly, welcome to the Equip Cast.

[00:01:14] Lisa Kelly: Thank you. I'm excited to be here.

[00:01:16] Jim Jansen: Yeah, and your here is actually here, right? So behind the curtain, some of you, like, sometimes, you know, the, the guests are not in person, but Lisa is from Omaha and so we're here in person in the studio slash my office.

[00:01:31] Lisa Kelly: And it's, it's so fun to know this is right here on 111th Street.

Like anybody who's, who's in Omaha, this is our podcast.

[00:01:39] Jim Jansen: Yeah, hun. 111th and Blondo, the Chancery here at the Archdiocese of Omaha. Okay, Lisa, this is your first time on the podcast and we've met, we've, we've had coffee, kind of developed a little bit of a, a friendship here. For those who don't know you, who is, who is Lisa Kelly?

[00:01:56] Lisa Kelly: Oh, wow. I would say I am a daughter of the Lord. I am, um, a co laborer with Christ. I am a grateful mother, wife, and cancer survivor and author.

[00:02:12] Jim Jansen: I had forgot. Forgot, yeah. And author. I had didn't, I don't know if I knew that or it came up. I didn't realize you had a very serious diagnosis. I did.

[00:02:22] Lisa Kelly: I did. And in, in, in many ways this book was a part of that.

[00:02:27] Jim Jansen: Yeah.

[00:02:27] Lisa Kelly: So I might share that as we go a bit.

[00:02:29] Jim Jansen: Lisa, what's your faith story? How'd you first meet the Lord? How'd you feel a call in the mission?

[00:02:34] Lisa Kelly: You know, I cannot remember a time, uh, I was not. A Catholic. So I was born into a Catholic family, although my father was Protestant, we were raised Catholic, 16 years of Catholic education, including Notre Dame.

And if you know anything about Notre Dame, people talk about it. It's like a Catholic Disneyland, I mean. Oh yeah. It is. It is mass in every dorm center for social concerns masked before every football game. And so I cannot remember a time I wasn't, uh, connected to this church.

[00:03:11] Jim Jansen: Mm-hmm.

[00:03:13] Lisa Kelly: But I can also remember a time where I needed to grow a lot in, in that faith, in, in different ways.

I remember after undergrad, which is where I met my husband. After undergrad, I felt this idea that I needed to get outta this Catholic bubble. I, I, everything I've done has been Catholic and there's gotta be a world out there other than the Catholic worldview. And so I very, very intentionally went to a secular, non-religious based, uh, grad school.

And it was great. It was a great education, learned a lot, but I found myself shocked at a worldview that didn't talk about human dignity. Yeah. And a worldview that didn't talk about, I'll say divine capacity or grace. And I understood, okay, you know, many religious or non-religious people don't have that language, but.

It was the first time I recognized there was such a difference and I really appreciated the worldview I had grown up with. Yeah. And I had to get out of the Catholic bubble to appreciate that.

[00:04:22] Jim Jansen: No, I I What? That, that rings so true. I mean, I remember I had a similar, I experienced it kind of in, in my undergrad, uh, a little bit and then just had a conversation with, with my daughter Josie, who did some very cool kind of volunteer work, uh, over her fall break.

And she was in the midst of a very non, you know, religious. Faithful Catholic bubble culture. And she's like, wow. And, and, and the net result, I mean, you didn't use this word, but it's like gratitude. Like, wow, this is, I knew it was different, but now tasting a little bit of the other side, like, gosh, I'm really grateful.

[00:05:03] Lisa Kelly: Yeah. Or, or, or claiming it and saying, okay, I don't want to live that other way. I want to live, yeah, I wanna live out of this and I wanna keep pursuing this and find a deeper fulfillment in it. But really, there, there was also a time we moved here to Omaha. I had three kids, uh, my husband teaching at Creighton University.

And there was actually a time where we were felt like, gosh, we've got the American dream, we've got the house, we've got the minivan. This is everything we ever wanted. And we were so desolate, it was just. We had felt like we had been checking all the boxes and doing all the right things and, you know, had the parish and had the kids in Catholic school.

And yet there was just this call to go deeper and, yeah, make it personal.

[00:05:54] Jim Jansen: Tease this out a little bit more. 'cause I think this conversation, that part of your story here is gonna unfold as we start to talk about the book. Yeah. Because you, you share that it's a beautiful illustration all the way through, right?

You're, you're the author, the spiritual path embarking on the journey of a lifetime, which, I mean, I should, I already admitted this to you, so I'll admit it to everybody. You know, like sometimes like, you're like, oh, another Catholic book, but like, I love this. Thank you. I mean, I read this, I'd be like, and it's, we'll talk more about it, but it's practic, it's a, it's more of a workbook than a book.

I mean, there's good, you do a lot of really nice teaching and there's some beautiful inspirational tidbits in there. But really it ends up, it became, for me, kind of a, a prayer journal as I was really, you know, processing this and dreaming with the Lord and beginning to plan and recognize what, what he was doing.

You share a little bit about your own story, so if we can go back to that, you are living the dream, you get all the boxes checked and you're like, something's missing. Mm-hmm. What happened then?

[00:06:54] Lisa Kelly: We were invited to join the Ignatian Associates, which is a lay community, uh, started by the Jesuits, but lay run, who practice and are formed in the spiritual exercises of Ignatius, the same spiritual exercises that a Jesuit would do for their formation.

We do it as laypeople.

[00:07:15] Jim Jansen: Right. Which for most people is a 30-day retreat. Mm-hmm. When you, when you're a Jesuit, you just, you go on a retreat and you're there for 30 days. You did it in the world 19th annotation. Yes. Yes.

[00:07:27] Lisa Kelly: Okay. So Ignatius was very smart. Interestingly, when he wrote them, he was a lay person.

He wrote them for lay people and.

[00:07:36] Jim Jansen: Awesome. I did not, I think I did know that, but I never quite made that connection. I, I associate it so deeply with formation for Jesuits, priests, religious seminarians. Actually, I forgot the, yeah. The native soil.

[00:07:47] Lisa Kelly: Right. So in the spiritual exercises, he wrote this little, they call it the 19th annotation footnote 19, where he said, you know, for some people it may not be possible to get 30 days away.

Mm-hmm. In which case you can do it with daily prayer and, uh, over the course of several months. Mm-hmm. And so as an Ignatian associate, that is our formation. We do it one-on-one with a spiritual director, daily prayer, and then also as a community. So as a group maybe of eight to 10 people, where we really go through these exercises and it's a very systematic.

Meditation series. Yeah. Where you just keep going deeper and deeper into your relationship with God.

[00:08:32] Jim Jansen: Right. Like for, for those who haven't done it, again, I've not done the full 30 day or the 19th annotation, but having done several eight day versions, which is often like. I mean, they call it the spiritual exercises for a reason.

Mm-hmm. Because Ignatius has these series, he has you praying four to five one-hour periods a day, and you're, you're going through these prescribed meditations and he's taking you on a journey. Mm-hmm. Very much. And, and it's a, it's a little mini paschal mini mystery, and you're like, oh man. And it's, uh, it's beautiful.

And, you know, anybody who's any, any, had any exposure to Ignatian spirituality or a Jesuit institution probably has some of the language and, and a flavor for this.

[00:09:14] Lisa Kelly: Yeah. And, and so for me, uh, it's all about, it's very personally applicable. Yeah. So when I went through it, I was literally discerning. Do I stay a full-time mom or do I follow the career path?

Which, you know, I had graduate school and, you know, I had always thought right, I was gonna be in a, in a professional capacity. And here I have three children and I felt my heart, you know, being tugged. And so for me, the discernment ended up ironically 'cause I did with my husband at the same time, not only to stay as a full-time mom, but we ended up picking up our three children and moving to the Dominican Republic to, uh, live in collaboration with the Jesuit mission down there.

[00:10:04] Jim Jansen: Okay. I mean,

[00:10:05] Lisa Kelly: talk about crazy. Yeah. We're gonna like where God came from. Wow.

[00:10:08] Jim Jansen: Yeah. Well, and this is like, just like, just for, for those listening, that doesn't happen every time. No, no. You do this, but you, you were doing this in community and you were doing it with your husband. Mm-hmm. So the Lord had a, already had a communal access.

To, you know, the, the sacrament, uh, of marriage, your, your family and the whole family moved to the Dominican

[00:10:30] Lisa Kelly: Republic, did a 9-year-old, 7-year-old, and a 3-year-old.

[00:10:34] Jim Jansen: Wow.

[00:10:36] Lisa Kelly: Yeah.

[00:10:36] Jim Jansen: What did, what did you do there? I mean, I know there was a plan, but

[00:10:39] Lisa Kelly: Yeah. So, uh, Creighton University has a study abroad ILAC program, uh, inter Institute for Latin American Concern where students have an immersion in a developing world context.

And so he was the director of that program.

[00:10:53] Jim Jansen: Oh, okay.

[00:10:54] Lisa Kelly: We got to live in a neighborhood with open sewers and people who didn't have electricity or running water. And, uh, we were, we did not suffer in, in any way. But we lived with a lot of people who did and built relationships with them and came to understand poverty.

Mm-hmm. In a very, very different way. And you know, I, I'll always say it was the hardest thing I ever did, and it was the smartest thing I ever did. Hmm. 'cause you grow so much when you challenge yourself to get out of your comfort zone and engage different people and engage new cultures and engage God, showing up in ways you're not used to.

Lisa, what's different now? Oh, wow. I have no fear of going anywhere I'm called. I, I really have none. I would eagerly look forward to it if it's a different culture because I think they're just different expressions of divinity.

[00:11:55] Jim Jansen: Mm-hmm.

[00:11:56] Lisa Kelly: And gosh, it's so neat to see different expressions.

[00:11:58] Jim Jansen: Yeah. I can almost like, I, I feel like I can hear people's hearts like, like, just, just the way you said that, like, I have no fear Yeah. Of going where I'm called. I can hear, I, I can almost hear people like, oh, I want that. And I think that's part of what you, I think I, I don't wanna put words in your mouth, but part of what you had in mind as you wrote out this spiritual path that you're trying to help people find a way to follow the Lord into the adventure, the journey that he's leading them on.

Yes. And not be afraid of that.

[00:12:30] Lisa Kelly: Yes. Yes. I very, very much believe courage begets courage. And once you start walking the path, once you start recognizing you are collaborating mm-hmm. With something greater than yourself in whatever you're doing in your context. You don't have to go to a foreign country.

[00:12:50] Jim Jansen: Mm-hmm.

[00:12:51] Lisa Kelly: But you start walking a little differently and you try it and it's. It's so beautiful when you start to recognize what's happening, uh, with you. Mm-hmm. And, and with other people. And so that's, this is really a very personal book for people to read about their own journey. Right. So I'm not gonna tell anybody what their spiritual path is.

Yes. I'm gonna be really clear to help them discern it for themselves.

[00:13:21] Jim Jansen: Right. I think this, I think I said this earlier, but it's, it really is almost like a prayer journal workbook mm-hmm. That guides people through a process of like, personal discovery. This is where the Lord is leading me. This, these are the, these are the signposts, the this is, this is how I can see where the Lord is leading me.

As we start to get into this, what was the inspiration for writing the book?

[00:13:45] Lisa Kelly: Yeah, so I was, uh, I'm still a, a leadership coach. I started off, I don't know if you remember Gallup, used to have a faith field division.

[00:13:54] Jim Jansen: I do remember that. I, I've been there. We still have some materials in, in boxes, but Yes, yes.

[00:14:00] Lisa Kelly: So this was the Gallup strengths finders, but applied to faith-based settings. Mm-hmm. Like churches, parishes, and so I was trained as a, originally as a Gallup strengths coach, and I was also part of a group that was ecumenical. Trying to help lay people, integrate their spirituality into their workplace settings, particularly leaders.

Mm-hmm. So if you're a business leader, what does it mean to be a Christian? Yeah. How do I, how do I lead as a Christian in, outside of the church? Because everybody goes to church on Sunday and then on Monday it's like, oh, I have to be a different person in this context.

[00:14:35] Jim Jansen: Yes. Which is not healthy.

[00:14:38] Lisa Kelly: Right. It's not.

[00:14:39] Jim Jansen: Yeah.

[00:14:40] Lisa Kelly: It's not. And so we, uh, we started a, a nonprofit to, to help the cohort model of leadership training. Wonderful people, great experiences, learning from other faith traditions and how we all come together. But in the midst of that, I was introduced to something called Best Year yet, and it was a corporate strategic and personal planning process.

It was already globally claimed. People around the world were doing it. The book was a best seller. Written by Ginny Dittler, who happened to be a graduate of Central High School. Here's Omaha. That's, uh, but that just was kind of random. But I did her training and it was supposed to be a one afternoon workshop where you learn how to do strategic planning.

[00:15:26] Jim Jansen: Mm-hmm.

[00:15:26] Lisa Kelly: In an organization or personally your personal goal setting. And as I, I'm sitting in this workshop and I have all this Ignatian practice in me where I'm like, okay, God is in all things. And each question she's going through, it's just coming to me in an, in Ignatian language. I'm like, oh, success. Oh yeah.

That's like consolation. Oh yeah. Opportunities for development. Yeah. That's desolation. You know, and everything, the steps that she had laid out to me were very spiritual because I, I was just so used to trying to understand God in all things.

[00:16:05] Jim Jansen: I, I know the feeling. I mean, we're sitting here in my office, and I can look at my bookshelf.

There's several. Business books that I've read, and I'm like, when I read them, I began to immediately kind of overlap some of the spiritual disciplines, which are again, that framework is, uh, pretty dominant in my life. Yeah. And I'm like, oh, wow. It's like, that's like, that's like the examine. Yeah. And or that's like the rules for discernment spirit.

And, and all of a sudden it's like you can see the timeless wisdom of the spirit showing up in what would be a secular business book or a planning strategy. And you're like, oh yeah, we, we have a name for this in my tradition.

[00:16:45] Lisa Kelly: Right. Or, or I find it it's truth, uh, with a capital T. Right. But in a secular world, people don't name a divine source.

[00:16:55] Jim Jansen: Yeah. It's like this is, this is true. It's from God. He's just not given, uh, attribution in this book.

[00:17:01] Lisa Kelly: Right, right. Or credit for it. And that's, that's understandable for, you know, people, but this is really about your personal growth, so that's Okay. So as I'm going through this best year yet process, I met Ginny and I became certified as a best year yet facilitator, coach.

And finally, I asked Ginny, I said, you know, this is so spiritual to me and I only work with faith-based organizations, right? So I would help your St. Vincent de Paul's, your Catholic Charities. I would try to help those boards develop their strategic plans. And every time, or not every time, but very often, it would come down to them, it was such corporate language.

[00:17:40] Jim Jansen: Hmm. Which I don't wanna fill in the blanks, but Yeah. Sometimes like, ah, that doesn't feel like home.

[00:17:46] Lisa Kelly: Yes.

[00:17:46] Jim Jansen: Yes.

[00:17:47] Lisa Kelly: It didn't feel authentic to who they were.

[00:17:49] Jim Jansen: Mm-hmm.

[00:17:49] Lisa Kelly: And so I kind of, that was my niche, was to work with faith-based organizations. So I just asked Jenny, do you mind if I translate this? And I'll, I'll stay faithful to the process.

I'm just gonna use different words. And she was like, yes, go for it. Totally understand. Very, very supportive. And so I did and, uh, ended up doing it as a retreat, uh, a couple times out at Skyler. And every time I did it as a retreat, everybody would be like, can you please write this as a book? Can you please write?

Because they wanted to take it home with them either to share Sure, yeah. Or to keep reviewing. And so finally I was like, okay, God, I on my own plan and I is a plan, a practice I've been doing for many years now on my own spiritual bath plan. I started write the book that became Wow. One of my goals. And so, uh, it's sitting on your desk now.

[00:18:40] Jim Jansen: That's awesome.

[00:18:41] Lisa Kelly: Yeah. That was discerned.

[00:18:42] Jim Jansen: I've got it right, right here.

[00:18:43] Lisa Kelly: Somewhere along, along the way.

[00:18:45] Jim Jansen: So let's talk a little bit, like one of the, one of the things that you bring, uh, one of the tools for, for discernment. In the book you talk about the cycle of growth and it's this. Tool that that shows up again and again as, as a, as a, a tool for ongoing discernment.

If you would just kind of open that up for us.

[00:19:05] Lisa Kelly: So the cycle of growth is what I named it. So I, I give full attribution to anybody else who had another name for it. I researched and researched, but this was the method used at Vatican two for adapting the church to, as they said, the signs of the times.

[00:19:23] Jim Jansen: Mm-hmm.

[00:19:23] Lisa Kelly: And it's see Judge Act, and then the Ignatian pedagogy would always add, reflect.

[00:19:29] Jim Jansen: Mm-hmm.

[00:19:29] Lisa Kelly: And it's that cycle of see judge, act, reflect, see, judge, act, reflect, and it's really about the many or major conversions of our lives. Mm-hmm. So we never have a one and done conversion. We're always growing. Uh, we're gonna be growing on on our deathbeds of.

Trying to grasp and understand where is God in our lives and, and what are we being called to, how are we being called to respond in this moment, in this context? So see, judge Act is how we grow. Mm-hmm. And we keep growing in our, in our faith practice. So, see is notice. Mm-hmm. Notice yourself, notice your surroundings.

Notice the people in front of you. Notice the moment, notice what's missing.

[00:20:21] Jim Jansen: Hmm.

[00:20:21] Lisa Kelly: And don't judge right to reactiveness. Don't, don't go right to judge. You've gotta spend some time and see.

[00:20:29] Jim Jansen: Mm-hmm.

[00:20:29] Lisa Kelly: And for some decisions, this could be months or even years, and Ignatius and his rules go through, you know, the different rules of, of how do you make a decision.

But it always starts with notice and see what are you feeling first and foremost, what's going on inside of you based on what you, what's going on around you.

[00:20:46] Jim Jansen: Right. It's two levels. It's the, I'm seeing. The facts, the scenario, the the things. And then I'm also beginning to notice what does that do in me, right?

Does it discourage me? Does it inspire hope? Am I drawn to want to help? Am I drawn to want to run away? You know, like all of that, like it's noticing the inside as well as the outside scenario or fact pattern.

[00:21:15] Lisa Kelly: Right? And there's no clear it's always this way or always that way, unless it's a really clear moral.

[00:21:23] Jim Jansen: Right? Yeah. Unless it's a moral, moral absolute, moral absolute.

[00:21:26] Lisa Kelly: Uh, you know, murder should not ever be, uh, an option, right? And so in most cases though of our lives, the vast majority of our choices of response are, are not huge like that, right? They're little in terms of daily practice in individual interactions.

So that we start with C. The second stage of the cycle is Judge Pope Francis would call it choose if you read his book, let Us Dream. Mm. It's this, that's exactly what he's talking about. This whole cycle. And it's where you actually have to choose. Mm-hmm. You have to decide, which way am I going? Am I gonna go this way how I'm called, or I'm gonna go this way, how I'm called.

And then you actually actually act. So you can choose, but it would be amazing how many people choose, I wanna go this way. And yet they don't actually act on mm-hmm. Living that way. Whether it be I wanna live a simpler life, or I want, I, I feel called to, uh, do service or I feel called to different type of career choice, but I'm not, I'm not gonna act on getting me to that point.

Yeah. And so, uh, the last step in it is reflect and we really reflect on. Where God has been in the whole cycle. 'cause God's always been there.

[00:22:46] Jim Jansen: Mm-hmm.

[00:22:46] Lisa Kelly: And we reflect back on, you know, where did I see it in the beginning? Where did I see it in my choosing? Where did I respond to God in my acting? And how did that feel?

And so that reflection is so crucial. 'cause that's the time where you learn so much of what we do, even in, in faith-based institutions is just do it. Do it, do it, get it done. Get it done. Get it done. Right. Project, project, project. And if you don't take that res reflect step, if you don't sit back, and that's what the examine is all about.

[00:23:17] Jim Jansen: Yes. Yeah.

[00:23:18] Lisa Kelly: Where every day you sit back and you reflect, what happened today, God, what did I see? Where did I see you? Where didn't I feel you? What choices did I make? That reflect stage is where you learn.

[00:23:31] Jim Jansen: Mm-hmm.

[00:23:32] Lisa Kelly: Then hopefully with some divine wisdom you act or, or see or notice a little differently the next time.

So throughout the book, I do this cycle of growth again and again and again. I think multiple times in the book. So people get the hang of it for themselves personally, and they start to apply it personally. And then in the end people will, you would walk away at the end of the book, you will walk away with up to 10 specific goals.

[00:24:02] Jim Jansen: Mm-hmm.

[00:24:02] Lisa Kelly: That you have discerned through this cycle.

[00:24:05] Jim Jansen: That, that's right where I'm at right now, I've got my goals and I'm like, woo. Just getting ready to kind of like finalize them. There's a couple through, a couple more kind of prayer disciplines that I'll be going through conversations with the Lord to finish it.

But yeah, I've gone through the, the process and it really is, it's a marvelous, I mean it's a marvelous experience. The thing that stands out to me, kind of going chapter by chapter, exercise by exercise. Is how much you force us to slow down. Mm-hmm. And to just see for a while, just, okay, now reflect back on how did that go?

And there's a, you know, I mean, I dunno, I think the modern kind of American tendency is to, to rush through goal setting. Yes. And you're like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Just, and, and you, you break what, you know, some, some of us maybe just point it myself, might conflate to like a five minute exercise. You're like, no, you're gonna think about this and pray about this for a while.

And it changes. Mm-hmm. It's not totally different than my first five minutes, but where I'm at as I let the process really unfold, it's different than where I initially started.

[00:25:15] Lisa Kelly: Yeah. So a lot of that happens in, in what we call colloquy. Which is a very Ignatian term. Uh, but it's basically where you're in prayer, you're in a space of prayer, but it's not a rote prayer.

It's not a lectio divina. It is a conversation.

[00:25:32] Jim Jansen: Right. Well, I think about like back to like, you know, junior high English Shakespeare, like a soliloquy, right. When the character just goes off and talks by themselves. Yeah. Hamlet or whatever. This is No, this is a colloquy It's a conversation. It's a conversation between you and the Lord.

Yes. About this dream I have or this experience I've had, or fill in the blank.

[00:25:54] Lisa Kelly: Yes. So Ignatius would say, literally, imagine Jesus sitting in the room with you. And what would he say about this? What would he say to you about you? I use the language of walking partner in my book. Mm-hmm. Because the metaphor of this is, is your hike.

It's, it is a hike. That you're, or a journey you're embarking on, and different people have different conceptions of the divine.

[00:26:20] Jim Jansen: Right. You've made this very accessible, I mean, obviously, you know Saint Ignatius and you're, you don't hide Saint Ignatius in his teachings and the kind of Catholic roots of this.

But, you know, like a, I dunno, like a, a grandma, mom, dad listening could give this to their secular friend, their spiritual, but not religious. Mm-hmm. Coworker, their slightly skeptical, you know, son, adult son or daughter. Like it's accessible to someone who just wants to figure out where they're headed. Even if they're not as explicit as you, you or I might be about, Hey Jesus, where, where, where should we go?

[00:27:02] Lisa Kelly: Right. Because that, that image of God is infinite.

[00:27:06] Jim Jansen: Mm-hmm.

[00:27:07] Lisa Kelly: Sometimes the language can be a barrier. So I, I use walking partner, so whoever you identify as your walking partner, where you are beloved and you are the person you can truly be, and out of that relationship is where all your goals come. Mm-hmm.

And, and your understanding.

[00:27:29] Jim Jansen: I wanna talk a little bit more about a colloquy because again, for those you would think there might be an advantage for someone who is more spiritual or maybe more explicitly Catholic, but that hap that that habit of conversational prayer with the Lord is often new. How do you do that?

[00:27:53] Lisa Kelly: It's more natural than you think. You can journal it. I've written it as a script mm-hmm. In my journal. So here's Lisa. You know, why did I do that today? God, well you were probably thinking this. Sometimes you can write it.

[00:28:08] Jim Jansen: Sure, yeah. Do, do you change pen colors as you, I, I, I, that's, I'm gonna get out off the gold pen for when the Lord speaks.

[00:28:14] Lisa Kelly: That's right, but I think there's just a grace to, you know, what Jesus would say or what your walking partner would say different than maybe honestly what your friends or family or culture, you know, would say, or.

[00:28:27] Jim Jansen: Or what you would say to yourself.

[00:28:29] Lisa Kelly: Yes.

[00:28:30] Jim Jansen: Yeah. I mean, I'm teasing go talking about like the different ink colors, but like, I've actually done that very fruitfully in my prayer and, and I'll, I'll like pause and when the Lord is speaking, I'm like.

Yeah. I can tell that that's the Lord. And I'm, you know, I'm not considering it like scripture or divine re revelation, but it's like, yeah. I believe the Lord is, wants to talk to me. Yeah. And sometimes the act of slowing down and writing it helps me listen better.

[00:28:56] Lisa Kelly: Yeah. I've also, you know, you've often heard the phrase, what would Jesus do?

[00:29:01] Jim Jansen: Mm.

[00:29:01] Lisa Kelly: And I think of it in terms of what would Jesus say to me right now? So I had one woman who, uh, we were doing this, and her truth, her capital T truth was, I'm fat. She was just like, I, I, I am I. Everything stems from that. And I said, would Jesus say, you know, you're fat? Is that how he would reflect you?

And that changed her whole mindset. Wow. Uh, just the idea that I'm not my body image. Mm-hmm. I am a beloved person. I have, you know. That's part of the why I love this process that Jenny came up with, because rather than just sitting and writing your goals mm-hmm. Or thinking about what you have to do, it is let's change your mindset first.

Let's be honest about how we see ourselves and what messages we're believing about ourselves, and then let's change those to understand where God is in his

[00:30:05] Jim Jansen: right. That's really, that's really crucial. One of the things you, again, you know, you rely on the, the, the gifts of the, the teaching of Saint Ignatius on consolation and desolation, basically to help us recognize, hey, here's where the Lord is speaking.

Here's where he's acting and leading. If you would open that up for us a little bit, how do we know what he's saying and where he is leading us?

[00:30:32] Lisa Kelly: Oh, man. So Ignatius has rules. On consolation and desolation.

[00:30:37] Jim Jansen: You can totally see his soldierly

[00:30:39] Lisa Kelly: Yes.

[00:30:39] Jim Jansen: Background there.

[00:30:39] Lisa Kelly: He was very organized. He was, um, uh, but as a result, those spiritual exercises have been applied and endured over 400 years.

Yeah. So that methodology and that so clear that, yeah, that preciseness of rules for discernment really helps. What really helps me too, as a spiritual director, quite honestly, and my spouse and my community, because it's so easy to trick ourselves into sometimes saying, you know, well, this is what God wants me to do.

Maybe it's more a cultural expectation. Maybe it's more of a, A should. I really should do that. And so you really have to discern where's my heart and why. And sometimes for consolation. Constellation is growing closer to God. Do I feel like in this act, I'm, I'm actually moving closer to the person I, I'm called to be.

Sometimes that can be a really hard thing you don't wanna do. So I know I was called to take care of my parents as, as they aged, and they had to move here to Omaha and I had to step up and say, yes, even though I'm working a full-time job, even though I'm raising three kids, this is gonna be a really hard thing and I know it's gonna be stressful on my family and I've gotta do it.

So consolation is not just happy, happy joy, joy all the time. Right. Constellation is really living out of your divine capacities.

[00:32:10] Jim Jansen: Right? Well, and then, and if I'm, I don't wanna put words in your mouth, but despite the fact that it was hard, you're a full-time mom, you're a full-time where you know you've got all these responsibilities.

There was a peace in that commitment. That was deeper and bigger than the challenge. And you're like, okay, this is where the Lord wants me.

[00:32:31] Lisa Kelly: Yes. And and even though it was hard to do, I also knew in doing it I was co-laboring with God. So it wasn't gonna be like just on me. Yes. I hadn't my, I had great family support, I had great community support, but I also had a lot of grace mm-hmm.

That I needed because, uh, you know, I knew it was not gonna be easy going in. So Constellation, uh, may, you may only have the constellation kind of at the end and looking back on the reflect side

[00:32:59] Jim Jansen: Mm.

[00:32:59] Lisa Kelly: Where you're like, oh gosh, that was so hard and I'm so glad I did it.

[00:33:03] Jim Jansen: Mm-hmm.

[00:33:04] Lisa Kelly: So there can be consolation in other ways.

On the same slide, desolation is when you're moving away from that, that spirit of God, and I call it in my book, the Spirit not of God, when are you following that spirit? That can happen in lots of ways. That can happen because the world. It is not an easy place sometimes, and other people are not easy on us, and sometimes we just respond in kind and not really intentionally as we could or as we might be called.

Other times, we just make choices that aren't in, in a way that would actually help us grow.

[00:33:42] Jim Jansen: Lisa, what are some of those markers of desolation where if we took a moment and reflect, if we start to see these things, we're like uhoh, I am, I'm being led away.

[00:33:54] Lisa Kelly: Oh, wow. Uh, I, I have many in my life times where your gut feels empty.

There's certainly times where you're, you're not being authentic, where you're kind of hiding something. Uh, you're not, not speaking your truth, not being who you, who you are usually or would usually be.

[00:34:15] Jim Jansen: Mm-hmm.

[00:34:16] Lisa Kelly: Or or other times where you are thinking, it's all on me. I can do all this. I can do everything. And not welcoming others into what you're doing. So I think a lot of our stress, a lot of our anxiety are flags of desolation.

[00:34:34] Jim Jansen: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I remember like Ignatius, you know, again, he gives a little bit more of a technical, but you know, it's like, it's like the, the heaviness, the draw to the earthly and the low.

Mm-hmm. The feeling, the distance from God, that all of those things are like beep, like little, little warning flags that if we took, if we take the time to reflect, we're like, huh. I'm not, I'm not becoming who I'm supposed to be in that moment or in that circumstance as I, as I let the, the desolation lead me astray.

[00:35:06] Lisa Kelly: Yeah. And it can, it can be a day, you know, a time in a day, a time of a day. Right. It can be, uh, an entire weeks or months. Mm-hmm. Uh, and that's why that ongoing reflection and that practice is so important. 'cause only in looking back can you go, wow. I was so not myself in that moment. Mm-hmm. I was so filled with fear going in and why, so you need that ongoing practice.

[00:35:33] Jim Jansen: Mm. So one of the things I really appreciated about the book is as you lead people to the place where they're about to kind of discern their goals, you have people go through a process of discerning their priority relationships. Mm-hmm. Why do you have people start their. Ahead of the goal, goal setting process,

[00:35:58] Lisa Kelly: because we're two or three are gathered there, am I in their midst?

Because that is where we see the face of God is in our relationships. Hmm. Now that includes your relationship with yourself, right. You and how you take care of yourself.

[00:36:13] Jim Jansen: Right. You start off, you're like, okay, you can name, I think you, you like, I think you have space for like up to 10 relationships, but just so you know, the first two are taken.

Yes. What, what, what are the first two that you have to like it or not? You have this relationship.

[00:36:25] Lisa Kelly: Yes. Yes. So you, you actually have to be your, your personal caretaker. Mm-hmm. You have to, you have to be open to that. And then I, I actually throw in a couple, you don't have to have, but you need to at least consider and discern with God.

Mm-hmm. And that's really important. Uh, and that is a relationship with the marginalized.

[00:36:44] Jim Jansen: Mm-hmm.

[00:36:44] Lisa Kelly: Is somewhere in your life there is, uh, an outside your comfort zone. Opportunity relationship to grow with somebody who's on the margins. And that may be in your own family. Mm-hmm. You may be caring for, you know, an elderly parent or a sick child or, you know, uh, someone who needs special care.

It may be going down to St. Vincent DePaul and, uh, serving at a homeless shelter. But you have to at least discern Am I, is there a relationship in my life right now for that? Right.

[00:37:14] Jim Jansen: Thank you. 'cause I appreciate it. Like, the margins are everywhere. Mm-hmm. And you, you know it because it's often outside of our comfort zone and it's just where there's a neediness, whether it's social, emotional material, it, it takes something special of us, uh, from us to be present there.

And then of course when we do, we gain so much more. 'cause Yeah. I mean, Jesus is hiding there right. In the, you know, distressing disguise of the poor. But yeah, I love that you force us to think about like, hey, where, where's, where are the margins that you're called to?

[00:37:51] Lisa Kelly: Yeah. And then I would also say in light of lato, see what is your relationship to the environment?

We have to be really intentional in this generation about our relationship to the environment and for, for somebody that can. With God, that can be a myriad of responses to that relationship. So I, I have to, if I prioritize that relationship, do I start doing my recycling or my composting or, you know, committing to that?

Or do I, do I do advocacy at, at the environmental level.

[00:38:23] Jim Jansen: Or just live more simply or? Exactly. I I'm actually just, I don't need all this stuff.

[00:38:28] Lisa Kelly: Exactly.

[00:38:29] Jim Jansen: Yeah. So, you know, here we are in the office across the, Andy actually is the archbishop's representative for, uh, the La Lato Sea Commission here locally for the Archdiocese.

And one of the things that that commission is recognized is like, you know, it's pretty hard to separate care from the environment and a call to live simply. Mm-hmm. Uh, a, a call to, and it would say, again, appropriate for every state and life, but deepen our church's tradition, even poverty. You know, sim simplicity, it's really hard to, yeah.

It's hard to do that without some commitment there.

[00:39:05] Lisa Kelly: So these are all, uh, relationships that we need to discern our priorities Yeah. Of how we're going to respond. And this gets very, very practical. I don't want people to think, you know, just 'cause I have my priority relationships. I don't do anything with anybody else or do anything for anybody else.

But the reality is most of us in our lives maybe have six or seven people that we really. Influence their, their lives, or it could be, uh, groups of people.

[00:39:41] Jim Jansen: Right? Spouse, children, coworkers.

[00:39:43] Lisa Kelly: Right. Or students, if you're a teacher, you know? Right. My, I I am in relationship with my students. Not one in particular, but how do I wanna show up for them?

[00:39:52] Jim Jansen: Right?

[00:39:52] Lisa Kelly: So the question you're discerning ends up being, okay, Lord, in the next few months, how am I called to show up for these, this person or these people? And what are the priorities?

[00:40:04] Jim Jansen: It well, it, and it brings some order to the process, but it also makes, makes my goals relational. Mm-hmm. Again, extrovert that I am, I still, sometimes when I get in goal setting mode, I end up just thinking about things or objects or accomplishments that are, for whatever reason, unnaturally separated from the people I love and the people I'm serving.

And so I, I really appreciated the way this process draws me back. It's like I'm doing. This thing for these people. Mm-hmm. And, and that's what, and that's what makes it life giving. That makes it a, an act of service and on and on and on.

[00:40:46] Lisa Kelly: And relational to God. Yes. That, that God needs you to show up for these people.

And this is how, you know, you're discerning how you need to do that. I think people often forget that what they're doing in their daily lives, raising your children, keeping your home. Mm-hmm. Those are divine, those are works of God. You don't have to serve on the margins. Right. Or do some great feet of saintly hood.

[00:41:18] Jim Jansen: You don't have to work at the chancery.

[00:41:19] Lisa Kelly: It's a daily call to holiness that Francis talked about. You know, just next door. Next door, neighbor Holiness. And so we have to recognize those.

[00:41:27] Jim Jansen: Yeah. And I'll share, I mean, I was surprised is I went through the process. One of the things, you know, one of the relationships of the Lord to my surprise was really drawing my attention to, was as kind of a caretaker and steward of my home.

Mm-hmm. Property. I have a, you know, a little itty bitty acreage, some, I've got some apple trees and some, some land. And I, to my surprise, and it, as I reflect on it, it's like, oh, actually no, that makes perfect sense. But the Lord was drawing my attention to that because of how healing that time is for me.

Yes. Outdoors. You know, I mean, it, there's something about the rhythms of, uh, being a hobby farmer that, that forced me to attend to the chickens and the trees and the grass and all of the things of the garden all at the right time. And it's like, no, this is, this is the time. And there's, there's something very healing about those natural rhythms.

And to my surprise, as I kind of listed out those relationships, that's the one that the Lord really wanted me to, to give some attention to. Yeah. And it makes sense because of other things that he was doing and desires that were stirring. But I think without the process, without the, the conversational moments, those colloquy, I could have easily diminished that and missed what was a desire in my heart, missed what the Lord was inviting me to, so.

[00:42:48] Lisa Kelly: Yeah, it was just another to do on your to-do list, rather. Yeah. To do rather than space. And that's not as important as for

[00:42:52] Jim Jansen: Yeah

[00:42:53] Lisa Kelly: divine collaboration.

[00:42:53] Jim Jansen: Not as important as the other things. Right. Yeah. It could have easily Right.

[00:42:56] Lisa Kelly: Set it back. Right. Part of that too, with the priority relationships though, is realizing you aren't gonna change anybody else.

[00:43:04] Jim Jansen: Yes. It's, how do I show up?

[00:43:05] Lisa Kelly: I can't have this goal of, you know, I, six months from now, my husband is gonna do X or six months from now, my kids are, are, are gonna, you know, get, get the honor roll at school. Your goal has to be for how you are gonna change.

[00:43:20] Jim Jansen: Did you flip through my, my, my book here as I, as I went to the bathroom?

No, I, that, that makes perfect sense, right? Like you could only control, and even then control's not a great word, but the only thing I can influence is how I show up That's right. In this relationship. So yeah. So yeah. So my goal can't be fix the kids change, change coworker. It's be present, love, respond.

All of those things.

[00:43:49] Lisa Kelly: Right. So I had that very much like, um, I will tell very openly and vulnerably, uh, with my mom as she aged, she was not always the easiest person to be around and, uh, had a really hard time letting go of control in her life, which you just naturally have to do as you age.

[00:44:08] Jim Jansen: Yeah.

[00:44:08] Lisa Kelly: And I couldn't change her.

[00:44:10] Jim Jansen: Mm-hmm.

[00:44:10] Lisa Kelly: I knew I could not change her mental challenges, um, be it Alzheimer's or whatever she had. And so I just had to make a goal of show up for mom this many times a week. Mm-hmm. And, you know, and those were some of my goals very specifically, very practically, how am I going to show up for her? And then it also gives you the space to, when you're in that moment, be in that moment.

And when you're done with that moment, you're not in that relationship context. Go to the next one. You don't have to carry that, that pressure or that, uh, need with you because now you're in a new relationship moment.

[00:44:52] Jim Jansen: Yeah. Thank you for saying that because I think there's something, I think one of the benefits of the, of this goal setting process is it's a lot like a budget.

So follow me on this. Like, you know, family budgets, for some people it's like they need a budget to tell 'em when to stop spending. Yeah. But for some of us, we need a budget to give us permission to spend. Yeah. You know, like speaking of vulnerability, you know, my lovely wife and I, Kim and I sit down, you know, have the, the budget conversation and you know, we're kind of going through category by category and she's like, well, we're doing good in these categories.

We're a little behind in these categories and we have some really bad news. We're way. We're way under budget. We haven't spent anything in, in one of the categories. I'm like, what's that? She's like, date night. I'm like, oh. Oh, no. Yeah. And that's a category you don't wanna have a lot of surplus in, right?

Because you haven't been, uh, going on days. So I, I appreciate what these goals do is it gives me permission to spend myself for my coworkers while I'm at work. Mm-hmm. And then when I move on to a new relational context to be present there. Mm-hmm. And then when I move on from mom to be present to, you know, Kim and the kids, and on and on and on, it's a, there's a, it insulate, I think this may be just my experience, but it seems to insulate from the false whispering of the enemy

[00:46:17] Lisa Kelly: mm-hmm.

[00:46:18] Jim Jansen: That you're not faithful, that you haven't done enough. Mm-hmm. And it's like, no, actually I was really clear. Jesus and I talked about what I'm supposed to do to love this person. I'm doing that.

[00:46:30] Lisa Kelly: Yes.

[00:46:31] Jim Jansen: And now I'm moving on. 'cause I shouldn't, I'm supposed to be playing trains right now.

[00:46:34] Lisa Kelly: Yes. Yeah. And, and that was enough.

Yeah, that was enough. And you reflect back and if it wasn't enough, you'll know that discernment will hit you and you're like, okay, that was lame. I know it was, I know I shortchanged her. I know.

[00:46:48] Jim Jansen: Yeah. Yeah. The reflection is there. And so we're like, okay, great. And I, you know, the Lord's able to gently speak into what he wants.

Lisa, you've seen a fair number of people go through this process. Talk about some of the fruit of those who said on this journey.

[00:47:03] Lisa Kelly: So I got a, I literally got an email this morning. The challenge was the author as you throw something out there and you don't often know how it lands or the implications.

[00:47:14] Jim Jansen: It's very vulnerable.

[00:47:14] Lisa Kelly: I just got a, a note from a woman this morning who said, I read the book this summer, worked through the Quas to produce my spiritual path in late September, and I've already done a pilot. Monthly scenic overlook. And, uh, I totally re ironically, reading in the book helped me realize it was time to retire again and pursue my passion before it's too late.

[00:47:37] Jim Jansen: Hmm. Beautiful.

[00:47:37] Lisa Kelly: I, I like, oh, that's awesome to hear. So for me, I, I get to see people in the retreats or, uh, discern it, but for me, the most obvious fruit has been in my own life and doing this again and again. I had a very challenging space because I've done it for years. I felt like I, we've discerned, okay, I'm gonna write the book.

Uh, I was already had almost the first draft completely finished. Uh, and honestly, my husband and I discerned, we were called to move to Spain and he was gonna teach at SLU Madrid, and we sold our house in Keystone. We had plane tickets, we had visas, like this was a done deal. And while I was on a eight day retreat out at Griswold, at Creighton's Retreat Center, I was really sick.

Hmm. And I thought it was a sinus infection. I was like, mm-hmm. You know, I just need better antibiotics. And my doctor said, run into the er, get a blood test. I'm gonna get you on the right antibiotics. 'cause he could get a blood test faster in an er. So I did. And the ER doc said, uh, you're not going anywhere.

And I was like, I just need antibiotics. Really, it's nothing. They admitted me and 16 days later they figured out I was stage four cancer lymphoma.

[00:49:04] Jim Jansen: Wow.

[00:49:05] Lisa Kelly: I was 51 years old. Had a youngest daughter was a freshman in college. And you know, I thought we had discerned this, Scott. I thought we had, uh, you know, we knew where we were on the same page together.

What the heck this was. There's no planning for cancer. But the, the gift and the fruit, I will say of doing this process and literally laying in my hospital bed and I pull out my plan. Mm. And there were some very clear things I had to say, okay, this is not gonna happen. You know, I am not become, gonna become fluent in Spanish.

I am not gonna do this. But then there were some goals I had to discerned where God was like, you still need to show up for her. Mm. You still need to show up for him. Even though I'm literally dying.

[00:49:50] Jim Jansen: Mm-hmm.

[00:49:52] Lisa Kelly: And I was, it gave me hope that even in my last year of life, I could still be moving. Towards God, I could still be co-laboring and I still had a purpose in, in what I was doing.

And so that to me has been the greatest, one of the greatest fruits. I really thought I wasn't gonna get to finish the book. I really thought I handed it off. And so the fact that I'm here today is very divine to me, and so I, I hope others can find their own divinity within it too.

[00:50:32] Jim Jansen: Hmm. Lisa, I wanna give you a chance to, you know, we, we've been talking all about the personal level and I mean your, your journey like that.

Thank you. That was really powerful. You know, talking about, you're like, wow, I'm in this, like, you know, devastating. As far as you knew life ending. Mm-hmm. Cancer diagnosis. And you're like, huh, well let's go back to my goals. Yeah. And you're, but you're able to see and find the Lord there and freedom to discard learning Spanish and to hear his invitation to persist in showing up for various relationships.

You've, you've been able to, again, through the book and, and you know, help individuals. But God's also using you to help communities too. You know, we, we were talking before we turn turned on the mics, we went for a little walk together. 'cause it's a lovely fall day here in Omaha, Nebraska talking about your work, helping to coach heads of religious orders through their own leadership.

The discernment process. I just wanna give you a little bit to talk about that. 'cause it's such a beautiful service.

[00:51:47] Lisa Kelly: Yeah, it's, it's. Very unique in the church and a lot of people dunno 'cause it's new. But Pope Francis had asked the Jesuits basically teach my church to discern. And you know, when I was growing up and I did everything Catholic, I had 30 years and I was actually kind of upset when I started Ignatian spirituality.

I had never heard a homily on discernment. Oh yeah. I had never heard the word discernment as part of the Catholic practice until I was 30 years old.

[00:52:19] Jim Jansen: Yeah. And, and I would say I similar, I heard the word, but I didn't know how. Yes. And until way later I stumbled, literally stumbled. I don't even know. I got a photo kite photocopied list of, uh, ignatius's rules for discernment.

I'm like. This is great. This makes sense. Where was this? Yes. 10 years ago.

[00:52:39] Lisa Kelly: And, and we take for granted, uh, at least I, I think some people do. I I know how to, I know how to be in relationship with God. Mm-hmm. And Francis recognized, you know, even the leaders of the church, uh, in the hierarchy or in the orders or in the ministries, they had not necessarily done or been practicing discernment.

[00:53:00] Jim Jansen: Right.

[00:53:01] Lisa Kelly: And so he turned to the Jesuits and he said, teach my, teach my church to pray or teach my church to discern. Uh, and so they started under Father David McCollum. They started something called the Discerning Leadership Program. And you can look it up online, but basically its mission is to accompany the leaders of the church in being discerning leaders.

[00:53:24] Jim Jansen: Mm-hmm.

[00:53:25] Lisa Kelly: You know, no longer the hierarchical leadership that the church lived for, uh, thousands of years. But now really understanding a Synod collaborative leadership model. And that's especially important with the lay people. Mm-hmm. Understanding that now we are co-responsible for this church. It is not just that the hierarchy is responsible for making things happen.

We as laypeople have to take responsibility for this mission.

[00:53:57] Jim Jansen: Yeah. We have a job leading in it. Yeah. That, that, that literally, I mean, it just cannot be done. It's like if, if you just imagine, well, father's gonna do it, or sister's like, Nope. Yeah. There's no, it's just humanly not possible.

[00:54:08] Lisa Kelly: Well, and we're gifted to do it well.

[00:54:10] Jim Jansen: Right. And it, and I think it's like when you, when we have an awareness of how the Lord gifts every member by virtue of their baptism, and if we have a proper scope like. I mean, the mission really is to make disciples of all nations. And even if it's in a, you know, even if you're just talking about a particular parish, it's every single soul in that parish boundary.

Not just the Catholics, not just the Catholics that come to mass and register and sing in the choir. It's everybody. And when you, when we keep that kind of scope in front of us, it's clearly way bigger than just our clergy.

[00:54:46] Lisa Kelly: Yeah. So I do accompaniment, uh, with the heads of, I have four women that I accompany who are the heads or on the leadership teams of their religious orders globally.

Uh, there are 45 of us globally who accompany leaders. So it's really important, I guess if I could share it with people to understand ality is not just, uh, top down, it's bottom up as well. Hmm. And so it's, it, the church is really working. On growing in that capacity for communal discernment. Mm-hmm. And individual discernment, but communally, how are we called to live this mission in the context we're in?

And I think it's really important for lay people to start discerning, how am I called to be co-responsible for this church in this

[00:55:39] Jim Jansen: mm-hmm.

[00:55:39] Lisa Kelly: In this place, in this time and for this faith because it's, it's us now. Yeah. We are, we are the church.

[00:55:46] Jim Jansen: Yeah. It, it really, I mean, it's beautiful. You know, similarity is a term that I think your average Catholic is only now starting to hear.

[00:55:54] Lisa Kelly: Mm-hmm.

[00:55:54] Jim Jansen: But I think when we have the eyes to see it, this was, I mean, I, you know, credit Archbishop Lucas, it was his commitment to a syndel process before we used the word of deeply listening to these gatherings of, you know, the, the people of God all through northeast Nebraska. That it was that, that listening that gave birth to a vision, which almost despite myself, drew me here.

I, I remember I had a friend who was, you know, she was like, Hey, you really ought need to look, you ought to look at this position, you know, take, take a look at the vision. And I was like, man, that's really cool. And I mean, it captured my heart and my mind because it was such a beautiful expression of what the church had been saying.

Yes, through the hierarchy, but also just the desires of mm-hmm. Uh, all the faithful. Yeah. That was a beautiful, beautiful thing.

[00:56:46] Lisa Kelly: Yeah. When I talked about the cycle of growth in the book, that's a very individual personal in the, in the book, but it can also be the exact same process can be applied communally.

Right.

[00:56:56] Jim Jansen: A communal pro. And you, you're able to help. You mentioned like way beginning, you know, like Vincent DePaul societies or whatever, you're able to help groups through this process.

[00:57:06] Lisa Kelly: Mm-hmm.

[00:57:06] Jim Jansen: Lisa, how if somebody wants to get ahold of you, we're gonna link to the book, but if someone gets to hold, wants to get ahold of you to learn more about your work Yep.

How can they find you?

[00:57:14] Lisa Kelly: So I am part of a nonprofit called lasa. So it's Lasorda la S-T-O-R-T-A. Lasorda was the town in Italy where Ignatius, uh, kind of had his final, or, or after eight 19 years conversion to be committed to to Christ. And uh, so we have our nonprofit named Lasorda just because it's the place we wanna hold space for leaders to pause and to reflect on their leadership and how they're leading.

So that is, that is what we do. So it's, uh, lisa.Kelly@lista.org. And you could also reach out, uh, or note, obviously the spiritual path has a website or a from Loyola Press, and then Ignatian Associates as well.

[00:58:01] Jim Jansen: Yeah, we will link to all of those. Lisa, any final words for those who are listening and they're like, oh man, I think I wanna set goals with Jesus.

Where would you recommend they get started?

[00:58:12] Lisa Kelly: So, I will do a retreats. Um, I have a retreat plan for Skyler, uh, February, uh, I believe it's the 14th, 15th over that weekend, where I do exactly what's in the book. If you wanna do it, uh, you know, as a couple or with your friends, and you'd like, oh, that would be a great retreat weekend.

That's one way to do it. The other way is, is to get the book and go through it at your own pace. On your own. I do recommend doing it with somebody else.

[00:58:40] Jim Jansen: Yeah. You know, I noticed February 14th through 15th. Is this, is this a couples, you know, over Valentine's Day?

[00:58:46] Lisa Kelly: It could be, but it doesn't have to be. Uh, it might be a nice, and I've had people make couples plans.

Yeah. You know, what are our goals as a couple, even though I know you have your work goals and I have my personal goals as a couple. What are we, what relationships are we gonna be really committed to showing up for? Yeah. So you could do that as well.

[00:59:03] Jim Jansen: Oh, that's so beautiful.

[00:59:03] Lisa Kelly: I'm sure God will work his way in there somewhere.

[00:59:05] Jim Jansen: Lisa, thank you. Thank you for the book. Thank you for the conversation today. For, just for sharing yourself. I mean, we only touched on a little bit of, a little bit of your story just to like, you know, Spain No, actually cancer. Yeah. You know, just the Dominican Republic. All of it. Thank you for sharing of yourself.

Thank you for this. It, it really is a gift. And again, it, it already has been for me personally.

[00:59:28] Lisa Kelly: Yeah. And, and thank you. I, I'm amazed at the fruits we have in Omaha. Just that. God has been very, we have such a rich church.

[00:59:34] Jim Jansen: Very good to us. Yes, we really do have been very good to us. Just, just added a new gift in our new Archbishop, Archbishop McGovern.

So grateful. Talk, talk about a, a, whatever. A son of Ignatius. So, all right, everybody. You know somebody who needs to hear this. So when you get the chance, let the Lord tap you on the shoulder. Show, show you who, who needs to hear this, and go ahead and share it out with a friend. Thanks everybody. Thanks for listening to the Quip Cast.

We hope this episode has inspired you to live your faith and equip you to be fruitful in your mission. Stay connected with us by going to equip arch omaha org. God bless and see you next time.