[00:00:00] JIm: Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Equipcast. My name is Jim Jansen, and I am your host. And I got to sit down with, uh, two, two old friends today, uh, Kelly Pecklow and Matt Keller. And Kelly and Matt and I talk about how do you share your faith as yourself? You know, so many of us now have experienced this reality where we're like, Oh, crap.
Pope Francis tells me I'm supposed to love poor people and I'm supposed to share my faith. But what does that look like? And we, we talk about like, how do you share your faith in a way that fits you? How God made you to do it. They talk a little bit about their own journey to realizing that call, how they make it fit in their lives.
Um, even decisions to step back a little bit from places they were serving in order to grow and be formed and equipped. for evangelization. Great conversation. They talk about how they learned how to pray and how hearing the Lord's voice in addition to all the practical skills, that really gave them the confidence and the truthfulness to be, to share their faith as themselves.
Really great conversation. We touch on charisms. A lot of fun today. Take a listen. 
Welcome to the Equipcast for the Archdiocese of Omaha, designed to help leaders to transform their cultures, to embody the pastoral vision, to be one church, encountering Jesus, equipping disciples, and living mercy. 
Kelly Pecklow. Matt Keller, how you guys doing today? 

[00:01:32] Matt: Good. 

[00:01:33] Kelly: Doing well. 

[00:01:34] JIm: Okay. Thanks for being, thanks for being here. This is, uh, really excited, uh, about our conversation today because both of you, Kelly, I guess we didn't know each other. We had a, we have a mutual friend in common. Matt, we've known each other for a long time since you were, you know, since you were in college, but we've reconnected through the kind of.
evangelization training program here at the Archdiocese, fancily named the Mentorship Program. We've reconnected and we just want to tell some stories today about kind of like what it's like to share your faith in ordinary circumstances, just kind of everyday evangelization, everyday life. That's kind of the sweet spot.
It's kind of the sweet spot of the mentorship program. God bless those who are gifted, you know, to preach and stand on street corners and people who can do miracles. All that's awesome. If you have miracles, keep doing miracles. Uh, but for the more everyday evangelization style, that's kind of where, where we're at with the mentorship program.
And we're just going to kind of share some stories today. So why don't you guys, Matt, why don't you start us off? Tell us just a little bit about your journey of faith. And your day job, what do you do now? 

[00:02:39] Matt: Sure, so I'm a cradle Catholic, born in Nebraska, moved around a bit throughout childhood, lived in Pennsylvania for a little bit.

[00:02:47] JIm: Hershey, right? 

[00:02:48] Matt: Close, Lancaster. Oh, 

[00:02:50] JIm: okay, okay. Yep. So Amish, not chocolate. 

[00:02:52] Matt: Yes, correct. And then came back to Omaha when I was in high school, graduated from Scutt, uh, went down to Lincoln for college. Uh, met my wife there, through the Newman Center. We got married pretty soon after, we've been married for seven years.
We've got three kids and the fourth is on the way. Nice. Congratulations. Thanks. So yeah, I, uh, I get to see them a lot cause I work from home. I'm a software engineer for Indeed. So yeah. And I mean, uh, just like super quick journey of faith, basically like most cradle Catholics, I like went to church growing up.
I went to Catholic school all the way through, never really learned how to pray, um, kind of was just going through the motions. And then it really started to change in college through Focus, through my fraternity and through the Newman Center. 

[00:03:45] JIm: You were part of the Catholic fraternity, which is literally in the backyard of the Newman Center.

[00:03:49] Matt: Yes. 

[00:03:49] JIm: The pastor can like sit on his porch and supervise. 

[00:03:52] Matt: Yes, I was the, I was the president when we built the house. When the Newman, when the new Newman Center was being built. When we built the house. But yeah, so that's really where I guess like my initial conversion really happened. And from there, just kind of been taking opportunities as they come.
Uh, sometimes my wife is... It's pushing me harder than I'm pushing myself to take those 

[00:04:16] JIm: opportunities. That's awesome. And to be clear, you do know how to say the Our Father in the Hail Mary. Yes. You made it through that, but you're like, but the deeper level of like how to have a conversation and hear the Lord, that's the part that you feel like is a recent development in your prayer life.
Yes, I was pretty just I just don't want anybody who's like what he doesn't know how to say they're our father Just kidding. All right, Kelly. What's what's your story?

[00:04:39] Kelly: So I am probably what everyone would recognize as a revert to the faith So both my parents were raised Catholic and went to Catholic schools all the way through here in Omaha.
I was born here Um, unfortunately, my parents divorced and with that pretty much just stopped going to church completely. And I was excited about that because I was 13 and I didn't want to go to church. So I was like, sweet, this is great. Not so great though. I, I probably for 20, probably about 20 years, 25 years, just, you know, would go to church on occasion, but didn't.
I always believed in God, but, um, got to college. I went to Hastings College, Presbyterian school. Yeah. And, um, yeah, so it was great. I loved it. And there was, uh, you know, a faith element there, obviously not Catholicism, but, you know, there were some. You know, looking back some really faith filled people that I went to school there with, um, and then got, you know, once I got into the workforce and things like you could, I can look back and see God working definitely through people throughout my life.
And then I met my husband who also from Omaha went through Catholic schools and big Catholic family. And, um, You know, got the sister in law pressure for going to church and things like that. So, um, which I of course don't like anyone telling me what to do. So I, I resisted as long as I could. And then, you know, we started having kids and St.
Thomas more has an amazing preschool program that friends had sent their kids to. And so I was like, well, it's not that far. We'll go ahead and do that. We'll, we'll never send them to school there because, you know, we don't. You know, I don't really subscribe to this yet, but then I met a bunch of teachers actually at St.
Thomas Moore and they invited me to a Bible study and I really, it was kind of slow, but a very intense realization of the truth of Jesus. Yeah. And haven't really turned back since. 

[00:06:32] JIm: That's awesome. And that's where you connected with Theresa? 

[00:06:34] Kelly: Yeah. And that's where I met Theresa. Yeah. 
Yeah. So she was, uh, teaching preschool at the time, so my. My daughter was in her class and she invited me... 

[00:06:41] JIm: And then you were, I know you're not in education now, but you were an educator for a while. 

[00:06:44] Kelly: I taught, I taught high school math for eight years. Okay. Um, so I'm a kind of a natural, uh, natural teacher learner is my number one strength and I work now for Charles Schwab and I'm in a risk and regulatory training, so I'm still in kind of the.

[00:06:58] JIm: Yeah. You're still teaching. 

[00:06:59] Kelly: Started at TD Ameritrade. So shout out for the Omaha. 

[00:07:02] JIm: There's a part of me that wants to, wants to, I was like, is it more fun teaching math to high schoolers or risk and regulatory? That's a whole nother podcast. It is. It is. Okay. So I want it to you guys up here. And I wasn't planning on sharing this, but I think it's helpful, right?
You know, the Mentorship Program now, it's an initiative that really came from the Archbishop's vision of one church, encountering Jesus, equipping disciples, living mercy, that we wanted to have a unifying training program. that we wanted to equip disciples for mission. And for years, we've, you know, maybe as by the, you know, ultra vanilla name mentorship program, we have not like done a great job of telling our story because there's just been like a bunch of demand, uh, that just kind of came grassroots.
Um, and as we start to tell our story, a good friend of mine, Deacon Tim McNeil, who's the communications director here for the Archdiocese, he's like, uh, Jim, stop talking so much about the features and tell people what the benefits are. You know, cause there's, we're going to talk about, but there's, there's cool features.
I'm proud of the way the program is put together to produce. What it does, but the benefits are like, Oh, I had to kind of like reflect on that. And we kind of, we realized, okay, really the benefit is like our mission is to help equip people to confidently and fruitfully share their faith as themselves.
And as we were talking before we hit record here, there are a couple of things here that's like, man, this is like, yep, that's like, yep, that's my story. So I just wanted to, uh, set you guys up. Can you talk a little bit about how your confidence has grown in how you share your faith? 

[00:08:41] Matt: So yeah, I've got, I've got a couple of different things.
I'll, I'll start with one. That was more of a one off event, I think. Um, but without the mentorship program, I absolutely never would have done it. Uh, I went with a group from St. Stephen's to seek two months ago, about two months ago, which if you don't know what seek is, it's focuses, uh, national convention where they have lights, I think it was like 17, 000 college students.
Some lay people, priests, seminarians, um, but majority college students. Yeah, we're in the arena at St. Louis. Yes, yeah, the old, yeah, the old Rams stadium. Shout out to St. Louis fans who are probably still mad about that. So, uh, so one of the nights they have adoration with everybody there and it's, it's in that stadium.
And We were there with our group and they processed the monstrance around and I saw a guy probably Ten seats down from me very clearly like outwardly having an experience with the Lord and I was like, yeah, that's awesome And then like almost immediately I got this prompting of like you should go pray with him And, so, like, going through the mentorship program, we kind of practiced, like, how to, how to pray over people and how to do that.
And, so, like, I had that training, so my immediately thought, my immediate thought was, I am never going to do that. So I just ignored that. But it kept, like, every few minutes I kept getting that prompt, you know, like, you should, you should go pray with him. And I just kept saying, nope, that's super weird, I'm not gonna do that.
And then eventually I was like, okay, fine. I will pray for him, right here, I will intercede for him, and then like, this will go away, and so I did that, I was like, great, done with that, but it kept coming back, and I was like, oh man, like, well, just like, physically, this is not possible, he's ten seats down from me, we have a, basically a wall behind us.
And people packed in front of us like there's no way for me to get there. So as I'm thinking that the girl sitting next to him stands up to go to confession. I'm like, Okay, well, I still can't get to that. 

[00:10:58] JIm: Now there's an empty seat next to him.

[00:11:00] Matt: Yeah, like I still can't get there. So whatever. And then again, within a minute, the group sitting in front of us, there was a group of 10 people from the seat directly in front of me, all the way to the seat.
Directly in front of him, they all stood up and left at the exact same time. And I'm sitting there going, why are you doing this? So my last resort, I asked my friend Chelsea Young, who's a former focus missionary, uh, and the DRE at St. Stephen's. I said, Chelsea, I keep getting these promptings that are probably from the Holy Spirit that are telling me to go pray with that guy.
Tell me I don't have to. But like, it seems weird. What should I do? And she's like, well, like, does it keep coming back? I was like, yeah. And she's like, you should do it. What? No, Chelsea, you are my lifeline to say no, definitely don't do that. 

[00:11:50] JIm: You're supposed to say stop, that's weird, Matt. 

[00:11:51] Matt: Yeah, so finally I'm like, oh my gosh, all right, fine.
So I go through the seats that all opened up and I start talking to them. I introduce myself and say, hey, I'm Matt. This is super weird. I've never done anything like this, but I feel. A prompting from the Holy Spirit, like I should pray with you, would that be okay? And as I'm, as I'm talking to this guy, I see my friend, Jamie Reed, from college, who is a teacher at Pius down in Lincoln, and all of a sudden the pieces come together and I go, this is a high school senior.
And he's gonna like be so freaked out of like, why is this random bearded balding man talking to me? But he was like, yeah, for sure. So I talked to him for a little bit to just find out what he's praying about. I prayed over him for a few minutes. I don't remember anything, what I prayed about. And then afterwards, he was just like, Can I give you a hug?
So we like hugged and but yeah,

[00:12:52] JIm: Which is generally what people do when they're really weirded out and they're like, 

[00:12:55] Matt: yeah Yeah, he didn't say like leave and never talk to me again. 

[00:12:58] JIm: I know I was yeah, I was teasing you the next day It's like well generally that's a good sign that 

[00:13:03] Matt: Yeah, but yeah, I mean just looking back on that like if I had not gone through the mentorship program I would have ignored that initial prompting and just Never come back to it.
Like, there's no way I would have gone and like prayed with someone or felt the confidence, even though like, I really don't do that very often. I felt like I had both the tools to do it. Like I practiced it before and I could actually hear the Holy spirit saying, like, Go do this. 

[00:13:33] JIm: Yeah, that's what like sticks out to me.
It's not only it's like, okay I I know how to pray with people, you know, I can do this in a way that's you know, minimally awkward But also it's like But I recognize, ah, this is the Lord prompting me to do this, which is, I think for half of us, it's not like Jesus doesn't have something in mind for us, or that we don't, you know, that we're not equipped.
It's that we just, we just miss the invitations. So, yeah, I love, I love that story, Matt. I mean, if you remember, like the next day, you know, we, we were together, uh, after one of the, one of the talks and you're like, Hey, I just need to let you know, the mentorship program has ruined me. That's what I want to hear.

[00:14:17] Matt: Yeah. I heard that from somebody else about evangelization of being ruined for life. Like once you've, once you're taught the methods and like really what the church teaches and where you're called. Can't, you can't avoid it. Then you're like, oh man, now that I know these things, I should probably, I have to do them the Holy Spirit.

[00:14:35] JIm: It's, yeah, it's a joy. Kelly, you said something similar, I forget before we turned on the mic, but something about just like, oh man, once I found out, oh, I remember you're talking about your, your, uh, coming back to the faith in somebody saying, oh, by the way, Jesus wants you to share your faith.

[00:14:51] Kelly: Yeah. Like, that's the main thing he's giving us.
Right. If he. If you could say one thing to everybody, that's the one thing is go out and share. Yeah, so, um, I can't remember what the question was. Are we just, well, just, 

[00:15:02] JIm: I mean, how have you grown in your confidence in sharing? 

[00:15:05] Kelly: Oh, gotcha. So I had, you know, zero experience really sharing my faith for sure.
Um, but, you know, because I was Really hadn't been a part of my faith since, you know, I was like 12. I think my journey has been learning all the stuff that, you know, a lot of people learned all the way through, you know, being a teenager and, and in college and things like that, and getting back into just the beauty of, of our faith.
Um, which I think everybody can do. Like, I know a ton of people who have gone to church for their entire lives and never really fallen away. That's still, you know, if they catch a, a good podcast or something about like, what does the mass really mean? They're like, Oh, I had no idea. You know? So there's just so much, and I'm like a learner.
I love all that information. It's awesome. Um, but when I realized that that's what we're supposed to do, I felt called to the mentorship program. Pretty heavily. Uh, because I, again, I need, I need directions. I need like things to, to practice, you know, that's the kind of person I am. I didn't know if I had time for it, but I, you know, a friend, my friend Teresa kept saying like, I really think you should do this.
And I'm like, I know I, I will. I just don't know when, but then I also was like, I'm, I really did feel ready to like do the next thing. I think in my faith I was, I was, uh, yeah. pretty convicted in that. And so, yeah, I, um, the first year, you know, we're really focused on, uh, daily prayer and sort of our own, our own spirituality.
And I knew that like my grandmother, she always prayed every day. She said the rosary every day, went to church almost every day. But I, I think one of the things that I realized it's that, that relationship, I think that called me back and that made me. When, when the Catholic, when I started hearing that Catholics believe in like that personal relationship with Jesus, that spoke to me, um, and that first year when we're, you know, working with father trainer and he really like lays it out, how, how to do the prayer and how to use your imagination and how to really have real conversation and listen for the, um, for his voice.
So that was two Septembers ago. And I barely ever miss a day of prayer at this point. Like I, I look forward to it and I love it. And it has also helped me, you just naturally teach other people too. So I'm, you know, hosting, um, in a couple of Bible studies, we do Lectio Divina on a regular basis and it's, You know, it's, I don't know, it's, it's a lot easier to just naturally talk to people about what that, what that can look like.
Um, because a lot of people don't know what to do when you say like pray every day, they're like, like our father and rosary and you know, obviously you can, that's, but, but really having that conversation I think is where. is something that I learned that really helped me. 

[00:17:55] JIm: Yeah, learning conversational prayer.
I mean, Matt, I don't know if you want to jump in here, but you talked about like, like, yeah, I knew the Our Father and Hail Mary and I knew my rote prayers, but I mean, for most people, the idea of like, uh, praying for a half hour or longer, you know, for like a holy hour. I mean, God bless people who just show up for a holy hour, but oftentimes We tend to fill it with like, well, I guess I'll say the rosary and I guess I'll read a good Catholic book for 45 minutes.
And the idea of learning how to enter into conversation with the Lord is a total game changer. And that's one of the foundational things we focus on. Matt, do you want to talk a little bit about that?

[00:18:36] Matt: Yeah, um, and that yeah, that's kind of where I was going with my faith journey. So like I said in college is where I started really being like, okay, I need to take my faith seriously and then like Eight years later is when I actually learned how to pray through the mentorship program and like before the mentorship program I didn't know I didn't know how to Pray relationally.
I didn't know what it was like to Again, like here isn't the right word but to like hear what the Lord is saying to me. 

[00:19:09] JIm: But yeah, not like audio, not like, like Matt, yeah, this afternoon at 3 p. m., but yet there's, it's, it's hard to find a better word to describe the, like, no, I heard God, like when I read the scriptures and I, I just recognized he's speaking to me now in a non creepy sort of way.

[00:19:31] Matt: Yeah. So yeah, the, the, that first year of the mentorship program where you learn how to pray was a massive game changer for me because I remember when I was in college. I went to talk to you, Jim. I had a question. I don't remember what the question was. Uh, but I remember you saying like, yeah, come, come to my office tomorrow.
Uh, and I remember you essentially trying to teach me how to pray, like how to use Lectio Divina, how to pray. And like, I went through that and I remember leaving going. That didn't answer my question at all. because, I mean, I just was not, I just wasn't ready, like I wasn't in that headspace of like, I need to learn how to pray conversationally because I really hadn't been introduced to it before then.
Um, but now looking back, I was like, oh man, I probably should have paid attention to that. 

[00:20:20] JIm: Well, and I think there's something, not that there isn't and wasn't a community You know, within like the Newman Center or whatever, but I mean, part of the benefit is like, wow, there's this community of people, not huge, there's about, you know, 30 people a year that are going through each year of the program, but the community that you have.
helps in that learning process. And then, you know, everybody who's a part of it, you know, you get as part of the program, you're, you're in a small group, what we call a mentorship circle, where there's kind of a veteran kind of missionary disciple, who's helping people kind of personalize what they're learning on retreats and in Saturday, you know, Saturday sessions.
I wanted to ask, you guys talked about this, how, like, uh, I mean, you have busy full day jobs, uh, you know, married, children, how did you make it fit? Because I think for many people, the idea of going back to school, you know, this is not a degree, but they're like, oh man, like, I just can't make it. I just can't make it work and that's been one of our priorities to like, okay, this has got to be accessible to people who still have kids at home.
It can't be just, you know, a singles and empty nesters, uh, resource. Talk about how do you make it, make it fit? 

[00:21:39] Kelly: Well, I have an incredibly supportive, awesome husband, first of all, you know, so we talked about it and I think for me. I had, I did have to cut some things out, you know, there were other, um, thank you for saying that.
Yeah. There were some things that I was doing like through our church. I've been pretty heavily involved in alpha since, um, I came back to the church. And so I really had to, you know, I had to pray about it. I had to discern like, Is that okay to walk away from some things for at least for a couple of years?
And I did, which was hard. I mean, that was hard for me, but I also, I also recognize that in the, in the ministries and things that I was doing, I felt like I was ill equipped in some ways, you know, like an alpha, for instance, there's a lot of like praying over people, especially when you get towards the end.
Sure. Um, and I. If I'm honest, I'm still a little bit terrified of doing that, but I feel way, you know, through the mentorship program, I feel way more like equipped to go back and, and I think be more, just be more successful in ministry, be, and be able to connect with people more and help help people more.
So, yeah, I had to cut some things out and then, you know, I was telling Matt before, like, it's, it's still not easy. I would never say like, you know, Danny was like, yeah, that I, he knows how important my. My faith is and to me and like how I enjoy, you know, doing things like this, but it's also, it's definitely a sacrifice for him and for my kids and, um, I mean, it was a joint decision.
Yeah, definitely, definitely a joint decision. But I mean, I do think too, like we have, you know, Tracy in our, in our rear who, um. Stays at home with her kids. And I think she has five kids at least. And, you know, some of the things that we're learning are really more geared to adult, you know, uh, relationships, but I know she's, she's a great example of someone who's really found ways to like introduce it to her own children or family, which I've also been able to kind of bring some things back.
So even though it's a sacrifice, I think anytime you're listening to God, this happens, like he finds ways to like. multiply the benefits, um, and yeah, make it work. But I, I'm also like pretty, I'm pretty rigid. Like I don't miss unless I'm sick. Like I go, like I feel like I signed up for it. I'm going to the things.
And I definitely think that's helped, um, helped me just get like the full benefit from it. Yeah. 

[00:24:04] JIm: Yeah. I mean, it's like, it's all the equipping you wanted from industry and, Oh yeah. And it's blessing my family. 

[00:24:09] Kelly: Right. And me, I mean, I think the first year especially was really like, It was like a year long retreat of, you know, really introspection and prayer and, um, you know, learning, but also there, there's a lot of time for you to just sort of take a step away from your life and spend, you know, a day, at least one day, once a month with, with God and with, you know, a community of people who are excited about, you know, taking that next step.
So I love that part of it too.

[00:24:39] JIm: Yeah. And we should probably just take them. Just like a super short tangent here, like the, I mean, the structure of the program is it's a two year program, right? So the first year is very much on developing kind of the foundational habits of prayer and getting into relationship with people.
Um, and then the second year is really focused on kind of discovery of your personal gifts and a deepening of the skills to share your faith in a natural way that fits you. There's, you know, four retreats, one in the fall, one in the spring. Then second year, one in the fall, one in the spring. There's these Saturday sessions, you know, three in the fall, three in the spring, uh, each year.
And then kind of all the way through, there's these mentorship circles, which I mentioned, you know, this veteran missionary disciple who's helping people personalize what they're learning and experiencing. And it's two or three, you know, other participants who are going through it paired with this, this veteran.
Um, so it's like, you know, the, the context for, for people. Matt, how about you? How did you make it? How'd you make this fit? 

[00:25:39] Matt: Um, I mean, I guess at the beginning when I said that my wife sometimes pushes me harder than I push myself, she, I, I mentioned it to her and she's like, you should definitely do that.
You should definitely do that. And so again, the support of. My family and my wife saying, yes, go. 

[00:25:58] JIm: Yeah. That's a great sign for discernment when your spouse is like, like, I thought you were going to say no for me. 

[00:26:03] Matt: And so, uh, so now we've, we've switched. Um, she is going through it. She's in her first year. So I'm home with the kids once a weekend and yeah, it's been, it's been good.
Yeah. Like you said, you just. Make it fit you had to cut some things out and but I think it's Important enough and even if you have to cut out something that you feel like you're obligated to do at the church or something like that this Will change you in ways that anything you are you would be doing for those two years Probably be less fruitful than what you can do after the program.

[00:26:48] JIm: Yeah, I want, I want to, I want to come back to that.
Cause that's like such a hard concept to like, can I step away from serving? Cause most parishes, schools, any sort of kind of ministry feels like we're desperate for help, but it's, there's so much to do and stepping away can feel really hard, like, oh gosh, I'm letting people down. So I want to come back to that, but I want to ask you guys, one of the.
One of the kind of key values that we have is we want to prepare people to share their faith as themselves. So, let me ask you guys, like, how does the Lord typically like to use you in people's lives? 

[00:27:26] Matt: So, for me, one of the things that we, that we learned in the mentorship program, and I know the Archdiocese does this other places too, um, but the thresholds of conversion, kind of like, Not, not putting people in a box, but just being honest about where they kind of are in their relationship with Jesus.
And I've found that I am often used more on the right side of people who are committed disciples who just need help with the next step. Not to say, you know, I can't have a conversation with someone who is like a fallen Catholic or like actively hates the church. I can, but that's generally not where I feel called.

[00:28:10] JIm: Yeah, it's like in this process of conversion from people who are like suspicious and hostile to kind of curious to like, okay I want to I want to be a disciple and now I'm growing Jesus tends to use you to help people as they grow Yep, do you have any stories somebody the Lord has brought into your life right now?

[00:28:30] Matt: I would say So I started I started a group with a couple other people call it called Archo Young Adults. Um, and basically we started this because I felt a call going through UNL where there's a great Newman Center focus, all that stuff. But when people graduate I see people who are very on fire for their faith and then they graduate and they lose their community and You know, sometimes they're still going to church.
Sometimes people fall away and I know that they were not faking it in college. Right. Yeah. But they just lose their community and things are hard. You know, once you graduate college, new job, you know, you're in a different place potentially. And so we really wanted to give essentially a landing place for people, because to be honest, most parishes are not.
Awesome at that right now... 

[00:29:25] JIm: Expecially for that demographic for like the, you know, I'm a new 20 something. It's just that. Our parishes aren't built for that, which is a whole nother conversation, but you just recognize the fact. 

[00:29:36] Matt: Yes, uh, so to get, to get back to the original question, so we started this, um, and one of our first things was, it was basically myself and Lauren Hankis, who was the former residence director at At the Newman center here at the university of Nebraska, Omaha.
But our first thing was we need to get a group of people around us. And that came super fast. And one of the, one of the guys on our core team, uh, he, he always says, yeah, Matt, Matt's our leader because he rallied us and gave us a kick in the pants. Like you need to be doing something like stop being.
Complacent with where you're at. And I don't really think I did that much, but he seems to think so. So, yeah, just giving the people who are ready to go on mission place to do it and permission say like, Hey, let's, let's go do something, 

[00:30:29] JIm: Which is interesting. It's like, I, the Lord often kind of uses me in that way too, where it's like, I don't know.
I mean, you know, in a charism sort of language, you might label it as encouragement or whatever. It's like, I don't, I don't feel like I did that much. I actually told you, you should do something and somehow that was helpful. Do you want to talk a little bit about the charisms, Matt? Because that's, I mean, we spend a fair amount of time.
Uh, I know that's such a gift for so many people. Talk a little bit about the charisms and kind of your discovery of that, the difference it made in how you serve and share your faith. 

[00:31:03] Matt: Yeah. So the charisms were one of the biggest things I took from the mentorship program. Um, I love the charisms. I am of the opinion that Every single Christian and Catholic need to discern their charisms, and if they haven't, they're probably not going to be very good at evangelization.
They might be. Sometimes people just figure them out, but don't have the language for them. Right. And just like, 

[00:31:28] JIm: What, what is a charism? 

[00:31:30] Matt: So the charisms are supernatural gifts that the Lord gives us through baptism and confirmation. And are usually ways that the Holy Spirit works through us to build up the kingdom.
Um, so they're, they're different than our natural gifts and talents, which, I mean, obviously when you're using charisms, they play off of each other. Um, but they're different because. You can use your natural gifts and talents for anything. You can you just have those abilities Charisms are specifically for other people and not yourself and therefore building up the kingdom You still 

[00:32:13] JIm: might naturally be a good speaker, you know good organizer But there's something about the spirit when he gives a charism.
It's for building up the kingdom of God. 

[00:32:26] Matt: Right? Yeah. And it's extraordinarily fruitful to the point where You can kind of recognize or other people can recognize that this wasn't just because you did it, right? There was something... 

[00:32:40] JIm: Right. It's actually super natural. Yeah about it. Yeah, I have a I had a friend who Quick story was like, you know, he's a musician and he's this natural talent.
He was a good musician but I think he also has kind of the charism gift of music and There's something about, like, when he plays, it's like, it soothes my soul, uh, in a way that is different than, I mean, it's like, he's a good guitarist, but it's not about his talent. Like, there's something way beyond, you know, his ability to hit the right chords, uh, it's more about God likes to use him to draw comfort and peace, um, through his, his music.

[00:33:20] Matt: Yeah, and so when I, so one of the reasons I started Archer Young Adults was because we were in the middle of discerning charisms. I had had this conviction, uh, that I needed to serve young adults in some ways, and the opportunity basically just presented itself, which is... Kind of weird, but again, like the Lord obviously is very clear with me.
If I'm paying attention, I'm like, Hey, maybe you should do this thing. Um, and so I, I think I have the charism of leadership because as soon as I started that there were other people who came alongside me with the charism of helps, and one of the ways to discern leadership is if you start something, you have people who come alongside you immediately who say like, yes, I believe in the vision you have, I want to help you do this, um, 

[00:34:05] JIm: right.
And I'll help make it happen. Yes. Where, just for people who like don't know, like where this language comes from. I mean, one, it, it's kind of all over the scripture. So you, you see some of these listed in St. Paul, first Corinthians, uh, other Romans, other places. Yep. But. Where did you first learn about the charisms?

[00:34:28] Matt: Uh, so I learned about them through the mentorship program. We read, uh, Sherry Waddell, I think. Um, she has a book, uh, Forming Intentional Disciples, which is really good about evangelization and discipleship. And I think a lot of people know about that one. The follow up book is called Fruitful Discipleship, and that one is basically all about charisms.
And she goes through every single charism, talks about what they are, Things that people might do with those charisms, how they might be lived out, how 

[00:34:59] JIm: examples through church history, as they show up in the lives of the saints. Yeah. 

[00:35:04] Matt: How charisms will play off of each other. Uh, things to watch out for personally, like temptations you can have when you have a certain charism to just like be aware of, and basically just always remind yourself, like, this isn't me.
Like I'm not some special person that can do this thing. It's. The Holy Spirit working through you. 

[00:35:22] JIm: Yeah. And there's a whole assessment that goes with it. So you can take the assessment and then begin to learn about and explore what seems like, wow, there's this thing that's always been kind of a part of my life, but now I have a name for it and now I can kind of lean into it.

[00:35:38] Matt: And yeah, yeah. So you, you do the assessment, which kind of, it basically just gives you an idea of like, these are some things that. Maybe you should discern and then you go into prayer and this is why you have to have a prayer life first because you pray Through this and then part of the discernment is you just do it You just like go try to use the charism and see what happens.
Yeah, try it. Yeah. Yeah, and if nothing happens That's fine. You learn that maybe you don't have that charism, but yeah, it's, it's really good. As another example, we have a person who recently joined our core team. Uh, and one thing we started out your young adults about a little over a year ago, and one thing that we've really wanted to do was get small groups going.
And we did last Lent a little bit through the live Lent together program. We had maybe like six or so groups with, you know, five, six people in each. Um, so it was good, but it felt like. In immense amount of work. Mm. And then this year we said, all right, let's try this again. We really want to get small groups going.
We had somebody come onto our core team and she volunteered to, to start this initiative. She just like crushed it. She clearly has the charism of administration, which is like delegating. She got it all coordinated. Making it all happen. Yeah, we got, we got 20 leaders and we got over 130 people into small groups.
Wow. And it. It felt so seamless and so unstressful. 

[00:37:18] JIm: And she loved it. 

[00:37:19] Matt: Yeah, and she loved doing it. She had a spreadsheet of like, alright, when we contact these people, label them green if they're in, yellow if they're not sure, red if they're not coming. We're gonna, you know, assign everybody different people.
And yeah, and it just, it just flowed. And that's awesome. I mean, we basically. over quadrupled the number of people in small groups. So like, it's very clear there's fruit being born there. And yeah, 

[00:37:45] JIm: that's awesome. Kelly, how about you? How does the Lord like to use you in people's lives? 

[00:37:50] Kelly: Yeah, I think, um, I think it's really a lot of times just where you came from, like where I came from, my own faith journey has, yeah, there's a rhyme there.
Yeah, there's, it's like you can kind of empathize and identify with people who maybe Were where I was, you know, so it's it's I would say more in the middle in the middle of the thresholds. Maybe even more a little bit to the left. I think the more I get into my faith, the harder it is for me to go away on the left side of like people who are.
Hostile towards the church and things like that.

[00:38:27] JIm: But I'm still you're like, the Lord uses you in people who maybe haven't made a full intentional decision for Jesus yet because you can empathize like that's like, yeah, that's part of my story. I've been there. 

[00:38:38] Kelly: And I'm also, I feel like I also am called with people who struggle with certain teachings or just don't.
You know, understand what the church teaches that don't understand like that relationship with Jesus. Like I, I'm still so close to that experience for myself that it's been a lot easier for me to, um, kind of identify that in people and, and people just naturally. So I'm going to play off the charisms conversation a little bit.
So I, um, have, I believe I have the charism of encouragement. Mm hmm. Which I thought it was evangelization forever. We also do like an interview and I kind of argued with the lady because she kept saying, I don't think you have evangelization. I think it might be. So she was right. Um, basically like I was talking about all these just one on one conversations that I get in with people and they, they kind of are like, I don't know what it is, but You're so easy to talk to, and you're so like nonjudgmental.
And I feel like I can say anything to you that I don't say to other people. And that just has come out within the context of me trying to be open to like talking about faith and. You know, I have a, uh, friend that I work with and she lives like we've never seen each other face to face. Um, but you know, we started meeting kind of on a semi regular basis, just about work type stuff and kind of trying to get in, get to know each other, but that it happened.
Like I can identify a moment where, you know, when you're working in your charism and the Holy Spirit is working through you. My experience is that it feels almost like electrified. Like it feels like I'm. You know, I, I don't even really know what's going on and to your point, like, I don't even know everything I'm saying a lot of times, but yeah, all of a sudden she was, you know, asking me about, you know, my faith.
And I think I actually even was, you know, we were just saying like, what'd you do this weekend? And I was like, Oh, I went on a retreat for the mentorship program. And so she started, so you, you're, you know, I hope you don't mind me asking, you know, what, what is your faith? Like, do you, are you Christian, you know?
And so it just. Lends itself very much more easily than I would have ever thought, right? It's just natural conversation. Yeah, 

[00:40:46] JIm: it is Which is a odd thing to say, but I think that's the difference of like when people Are equipped not just to share their faith generally, but to share their faith as themselves, like where the Lord has already kind of made them and gifted them.
It's like, Oh, did I do that? Did I do something? Because it was just, I was just having fun. 

[00:41:07] Kelly: Just having a conversation, you know, and just really reacting, you know, to like struggles that she's been having. And I think at one point she was kind of like, well, how do you, you know, how do you maintain, you know, she has.
Uh, she's a little younger than me, so she has less kids, they're younger, you know, you have all these kids and how do you, you know, work and do all these things? And I'm like, well, you know, um, I, I pray every day, you know, and, and like, that's, I, I have to do that, or I feel like I'm crazy, you know? And so it was very like natural conversation, but it opened this door so that now, you know, she.
She actively brings it up. Like I don't even have to say, Hey, how's your prayer life or have you been to mass yet or anything like that? Like she just starts talking to me. 

[00:41:52] JIm: And again, this is a coworker. No, you've actually never even met in person. I mean, you have to work remotely together, but there's this clear, beautiful, natural relationship.
And she's coming to you, like, teach me, teach me about your faith. 

[00:42:09] Kelly: Right. And I think the other thing is, is like so natural with, for me, for, with friendship, you know, like I've made friends that have probably way more knowledge about the church. Cause they never had a falling away or anything. And I've gone to them.
Like I have another friend that I went to her to talk about high schools. Cause her kids are a little bit older than mine. And we went out for coffee, you know, to talk about like, why did you choose the school? And. At some point in the conversation, she was like pouring her heart out to me about like her faith struggles and how she, you know, kind of feels like she wants to do something and she's not sure what and, you know, now she's a part of the Bible study that I'm leading and, you know, and she but she in some ways is like.
way above where I'm at in my faith. Um, so it's almost like we are like journeying together, you know, and it's not a, it's, you say mentorship, but it's really, and I've learned that through the small groups too. Like we all are kind of in a different place and in some ways I'm leading others, but they're also leading me.
So it's kind of a cool. 

[00:43:12] JIm: Yeah, I mean, it's like people, you know, Francis loves, Pope Francis loves you, the word accompaniment, but I'm just, I'm just walking with someone as we together walk towards Jesus. Yep. Absolutely. 


[00:43:23] Kelly: Yeah. 

[00:43:23] Matt: And that definitely sounds like a charism because that does not happen to me.
People do not just pour their hearts out to me. Yeah. 

[00:43:31] JIm: Uh, okay. So I want to give, I mean, our time is just like totally flown here. I want to give you guys, we talked about charisms, we talked about prayer, just like maybe one other thing that you're like, you know, I, Developed this habit or I learned this skill and it's just been a beautiful Kind of a game changer for me.
So this is going to give you a chance to like yeah, what what's what's what's like another big takeaway? Um, that's that's different. We should say like yeah, I am i'm better off Uh because of this. 

[00:44:02] Matt: I would say Uh, and again, this goes back to my Uh, the charism of leadership a little bit again. And just disclaimer for people who are listening, who have not been through the mentorship program, just because you go through the mentorship program, doesn't mean you have to like start some organization or something like that, that is totally personal discernment of like where you feel called.
But when I started the group, I took a lot of stuff from the mentorship program into our mission and vision. Um, one of those things being, we are going to be Holy spirit led. So we pray. Uh, we do Lectio Divina at the beginning of every meeting for maybe like 10 minutes just with the, uh, the day's gospel.
And we're always, we're always trying to evaluate whatever we're doing through the fruit that we see and not necessarily just numbers. I mean, numbers are helpful, but that's not the end all be all because if we aren't Making a difference in people's lives. Yeah. We're just wasting our time and allowing again, because it's the Holy Spirit who is, uh, the creator, he's very creative.
And so allowing things, not just forcing stuff, not saying, okay, well, we're going to do a sports league. So let's find somebody to lead the sports league. We're trying to be much more open to like, all right. Who is here? Let's look around. Who's ready to be on mission? What do they want to do? Like, what are they being called to?
How do we support that? And to just naturally let things live and die. If somebody feels really strongly about a mission, and they start something, and then they have to step away, or they move away, or whatever, and there's nobody... Who feels called to step up and lead that regardless of how amazing it was.
We just have to let it die. 

[00:45:52] JIm: That's okay. That is so crazy. I mean, I love it, but that is so freeing. I mean, think about like, I'm just like listener, like those, those of you who are like, how often maybe you have personally, or you're seeing someone else like, well, somebody has got to do it. Yeah. And then you're like, and I am like now going to be a square peg in a round hole for the next 20 years organizing the craft fair when I'd rather be talking to strangers about Jesus.
Gosh, that's awesome, man. Kelly, how about you? 

[00:46:22] Kelly: You know, I, I think there are I think I've taken away a lot more like personal tools, um, you know, obviously bringing them into the groups. But I think, um, you know, my prayer life of like actually doing an examen, like I think at one point somebody, I've, I heard.
You know, if you don't do anything else every day, like do an examination of conscience. Yeah, the examined prayer. The examined people get them confused all the time.

[00:46:52] JIm: That would be, yeah, well, and that would be Saint Ignatius of Loyola's advice. He dispensed the Jesuits from anything else except for the examined.
Like you got to do that. 

[00:47:00] Kelly: Yeah. And it. It's, uh, it's produced so much fruit in my life and also, you know, to what Matt was saying of like really being more led than directing my own actions in my own life, I think I still, I mean, I, I feel like I still have a lot to learn. I still sometimes, you know, don't hear anything when I'm trying to get guidance, but just being more patient with, um, what are those next steps and being okay to just kind of stay on like a steady path and not like.
You know, like the by so I've been doing a I formed a live went together group like two years ago before I did the mentorship program even and you know we did the Lexio we've and we've we're still together but it's you know different people have come in and you know it sometimes I'm like well I don't know if I should keep doing this like maybe you know sometimes it's only like two of us or three of us but I've I've just kind of had this prompting of like you know what just Just keep going, just, just do it.
And if people come, they come, if they don't, you get an extra night with your family that you weren't going to have, and it's fine. And I tell you what, like just by having that space for people, and sometimes it is just two of us, but that has been some of the most fruitful conversations. It's just those one on one that person just needed.
To, to be with Jesus that, and I just created some space. So I think... 

[00:48:25] JIm: Well, and you felt free to like, I, I'm not back to what you said, Matt, I'm not distracted by how many people are coming, right? I'm confident, whatever the numbers are that the Lord wants me to do this. And so I do. And then he shows up and then there's this beautiful conversation.

[00:48:41] Kelly: Yeah. And just a little more of like taking a, a more relaxed sort of approach.
You know, it's, it's different when you're like. In the, you know, corporate world and got goals and you've got these things that you're trying to achieve all the time. Like, it's just like taking and almost like completely turning your, your brain around, um, and just looking to God for that, for that plan.

[00:49:04] JIm: I hear a peace and a confidence you guys talk about and, and a pretty intense fruitfulness, but just a peace and a confidence. You guys have been on this journey now, you know, for a while, like, okay, how do I, you know, learning to share your faith as yourself. What advice would you have just kind of, as we, as we close here, what advice would you have to somebody listening who wants to take a first step, uh, to grow in sharing their faith?

[00:49:27] Matt: I would say the first step is to learn how to pray relationally. Like without that you are, it's almost impossible. And one of the books, I don't know if you still read it in the mentorship program, but one of the books that we read at the very beginning was. It's called God help me, uh, by Jim Beckman, I think, and that kind of walks you through like, this is how you pray relationally.
Um, so that is a great first step. If, if you feel you're already there, the next thing, I think when you're, if you feel like you have a pretty solid faith life, um, your prayer, you're, you can pray relationally, even if you're not. Perfect. I am not perfect. I do not pray every single day. I'm really terrible.
Um, but, uh, the next step, and this is through my discernment, my mentor through the mentorship program was Andy Dacca. Uh, and when I was discerning something, he told me a great place to start is the three pronged approach of need, desire, and opportunity. So have, do you identify a need? Do you desire to fulfill that need?
And do you have the opportunity to do so? And like, if all three of those things are there, that's probably a pretty good sign that you should try to take that opportunity, right? There might be an opportunity and a need, but you just have like absolutely zero desire. Like, right. And the desire is like, not, it's like deep in your heart of you feel a longing of like, I want to fill that need.
Ignoring all the like, oh, they're all the logistics, like you feel the desire to help.

[00:51:12] JIm: Not that there might be some fear or confusion or hesitation, but you know, at the deeper level, I actually do want to do this. I just need to get past these unanswered questions about logistics. How will I possibly sit next to that man?

[00:51:25] Matt: Right. Yeah. So that, yeah. So if you have a pretty good prayer life, I think that's the next step of like, if you have those three things, the opportunity, desire and need for something, and you recognize that. You should probably try to step into that and again feel the freedom of like if you people get paralyzed by fear of like well What if I fail who cares like you you might that might happen?
But you have to get over that fear because there's always a chance you're gonna fail 

[00:51:56] JIm: Well, and I mean what is failure like if Jesus says try this and you say, okay Oh, I mean Isn't that a win regardless of what happens? 

[00:52:07] Kelly: That's what I was going to say, like, that failure is a, is a lesson. You know, Jesus is doing something through that.
[00:52:13] JIm: And he loves it when we try. Right. 

[00:52:15] Matt: And you might see it as a failure when it wasn't. Like, maybe you accomplished what you're supposed to. And another thing we learned in the mentorship program was the holy detachment of you did what you felt the Lord was asking you to do. And if the other person or people, whoever it is, don't receive that, You can't change that.
You did what you were asked to do. If they were receptive or not, you, you can't control that. 

[00:52:40] JIm: Yeah, that's awesome. 

[00:52:41] Kelly: And I, we actually talked about this just in our last session about, because there was a guy in that he was just really frustrated because he felt like he was doing all the things and reaching out to these people, to this one person.
And it just didn't work in his eyes. He's like, he just, he's, I feel like maybe I'm not supposed to be with this person. And I thought back to my own experience, which there were a lot of people in my life before I came into the church that. You know, tried to talk to me about Jesus, tried to, you know, probably mentor me and walk with me.
And I was kind of like, that's, that's fine. But I'll tell you what, I still remember them. I remember what they said and I heard it. Yeah. And my dad used to say that all the time, actually. And, uh, you know, it was just like you. You never, you never know everybody, people hear you, they hear what you say and they do internalize it.
They may not react to it right then, they might not take any action, they might look like they totally disagree and that they're offended, but they hear it and the Lord will continue to work in their lives. You know, without you. 

[00:53:46] JIm: And you look back with gratitude. Absolutely. Absolutely. 

[00:53:50] Matt: Going back to that story 10 years ago where Jim tried to teach me to pray.
And I was like, what was that? That didn't answer my question, but like he did what he was asked to do. I was not ready to receive it, but I still remember that. And can go back and go, Oh, I did not receive that. Like I probably was supposed to. 

[00:54:08] JIm: Gosh, thank you guys. This is, this has been great. I hope this is really an encouragement.
And I'm sure it is really for people listening who are like, Oh, they're generously, nobly, maybe trying to serve some place that it doesn't quite fit them, or they're like, you know, they want, they are on mission, but they're maybe not seeing some of the fruit. I, yeah, I really hope, I think this is going to be a real encouragement to people.
So, all right, everybody, you know. You know, maybe you're thinking of somebody who needs to hear this, just like when you finish walking the dog or when you get to your destination, just like share this out with a friend. And, uh, Kelly, Matt, thank you for, thank you for joining us today.