[00:00:00] Jim Jansen: Hey everybody, welcome to the webcast. So today I sit down with author Dave Runyon. Dave wrote The Art of Neighboring and Dave, and I dive in just to the power of neighboring. How powerful it is as a social safety net more than government programs or anything else. Just the simple command of Jesus to love our neighbors, maybe even the ones that live next door.

How powerful that is in our lives, in the lives of neighbors. It's a really fun conversation. I have to warn you. It'll probably make us uncomfortable sometimes as you start to recognize that maybe you don't, uh, love or know your neighbors as much as you want, but it's inspiring and it's helpful. You're going to love today's conversation.

Take a listen, everybody. Welcome to the equip cast a weekly podcast for the archdiocese of Omaha. I'm your host, Jim Jansen. Now let's dive into some encouragement and inspiration to equip you to live your faith And to be fruitful in your mission, let's go.

Dave Runyon. Welcome to the EquipCast. How are you doing today? 

[00:01:08] Dave Runyon: Great, Jim. I'm excited for this. 

[00:01:10] Jim Jansen: Yeah, I am too. Right. Full like disclosure for the listeners. We've been talking for, I don't know, 20 minutes or a half hour, like, Oh, we should probably turn on the microphones. We're just having a grand old time here.

So, Dave, let me give you a short intro and then I'll let you introduce yourself. I came across your work as part of the within reach movement here in Omaha. They were referencing. Some works, your book, The Art of Neighboring. Is a way to really kind of reach out to neighborhoods. I read the book, uh, that I got to see live a couple A couple months ago when you came to Omaha I'm super excited and like if it wasn't enough just you know already appreciating the the work you're doing uh with the art of neighboring But then we were just having a great conversation before we turned on the mic So Dave give us just a little snapshot like who are you?

What's your story? 

[00:02:00] Dave Runyon: Yeah well, thanks for the opportunity to share my story with your Listeners and with you. So, my whole life here in the Denver metro area, most of my life in the Denver metro area, all my formative years, grew up in a great Christian family. And, uh, was really fortunate to have parents that built and gave me a really solid foundation.

And so, I went to college at Colorado state university. 

[00:02:27] Jim Jansen: All right, go Rams. 

[00:02:28] Dave Runyon: Go Rams. That's right. Got out of school and I was a high school teacher for four years. Really content, Jim. I was very, very content. And then I fell backwards into vocational ministry. It was just kind of a; it was a weird circumstance.

Like, I didn't, I wasn't in seminary until after I took a job as a, as a teaching pastor at a church. You can only get away with this in like, Evangelical, an evangelical like laser show church land. They're they're just like, hey, yeah, you're a teacher even I filled in for a guy who got sick It was at this, you know, relatively large church and they needed a teaching pastor and they approached me to do this And so I had zero skills or training coming into this I was in way way over my head.

[00:03:13] Jim Jansen: I'm still stuck that you, I'm still stuck that you were like content as a teacher or, you know, that's a hard job. So, I don't know how you can content with that. 

[00:03:22] Dave Runyon: Being a U. S. history high school teacher is way easier than like doing this, the pastor thing. 

[00:03:27] Jim Jansen: Okay. Fair enough. Fair enough. Right. 

[00:03:28] Dave Runyon: I just thought that was my call.

[00:03:30] Jim Jansen: Right. You found the heart. You found like the next hardest job. That's right. Good job. 

[00:03:33] Dave Runyon: Exactly right. So, two great churches in the Denver metro area. Yeah. And, and, and yet I still found myself pivoting after 10 years into the work that I'm doing now. So today I run a nonprofit that helps faith and government, and business leaders work together, mostly in the Denver Metro area, but what got me there, actually, ironically, Jim was.

Huge piece of my journey was a relationship that got sparked with a, with a priest, Catholic priest in my community. We, we had a sign, one week we had this sign out and, you know, we have those church signs that you see and, and it said, hey, free premarital counseling. And so, we had just like come up with. A few ideas about premarital counseling that we were doing the two hour long free seminar for people in the community, and I wasn't at the church this day, but Father Stephen, who was the priest at one of the larger parishes in the Denver metro area.

Saw that sign pulled into our parking lot and walked into the front door and asked our receptionist and said hey Can you tell me about what you're doing? And he had a collar on and everything. It's uh, Can you tell me about what I’m doing here? He's like this is something that I would love to offer to you know, the people that I’m pastoring over here And so he had this, you know Short interaction with our receptionist.

She gave him all of the materials that we had. I came back from lunch and. 

[00:05:03] Jim Jansen: She was like, you're never going to guess who walked in. 

[00:05:06] Dave Runyon: You know? Yeah. It's the start of a joke, right? Uh, it's like, uh, you know, the, this guy walked in and she didn't, she didn't remember his name or anything and something just struck me.

I was so like, I did for some reason at the fact that this guy just walked in the door and had the kind of posture. He's like, Hey, I'd love to learn what you're doing that. I just drove down that day. 

And I drove in and met their front desk person. And I said, Hey, somebody from here walked into our church. 

[00:05:34] Jim Jansen: He was wearing black, little white thing on his, like, that's so awesome. 

[00:05:41] Dave Runyon: I could tell, I could talk to the whole podcast about the shit with Father Steven and how it's changed me. But what, what ended up happening is he and I started to have coffees and breakfast together. and we just found this safe place.

You know, for me it was a place to like look at someone and go, Hey, I've always heard that you guys like worship Mary as much as Jesus. Is that true? And then, he would, he would laugh. 

[00:06:06] Jim Jansen: That's awesome. 

[00:06:07] Dave Runyon: He would laugh, and he would go, no, and he would, and then he would say like, here's how we feel about this, and like, here's our approach to this.

And then I, it would like, the penny would drop for me. I'd go, oh my goodness. Us Protestants have like swung the pendulum so far away on the Mary stuff. Like I need, I can rediscover some stuff here. And then he would come to me, and he would ask the same questions, and he would go, Dave, like we have so many people in our parish that family members have become Protestants and like, I'm wrestling through this.

And here's some of the questions that they have. So, we just found this, this beautiful friendship in which we were able to kind of be each other's like insider into the other world. 

[00:06:48] Jim Jansen: Yeah, I love the way you said that, like a safe place to ask those kind of awkward questions. 

[00:06:54] Dave Runyon: Questions that like, you know, when you're getting, when you're raised in the evangelical church, you just hear these things about Catholics and then you're like, you're like, that's not true.

Maybe it is true. And you just don't have any place to ask that unless you really want to, like, go and do your homework. And so, you know, we started to kind of visit like when I wasn't teaching that Sunday morning, I would go over and visit his place and I remember the awkwardness of like not knowing what to do with communion the first time and having to go and ask him and he's like, well, you know, you're, he's like, I would serve it and we had this like, and we had to kind of feel that out and I remember he came to my church the first time and we did this deal where we were like, Hey, you know, after during the announcement time, we're like, Hey, take a couple of minutes and say hi to the person next to you.

Yup. And then that day it was, and then tell that person, like, what do you do for a living? And so, he was not wearing his collar. He was not wearing his collar. He was coming in Cogito, secret shopper at the evangelical church. And, and he, and all of a sudden, I accidentally put him in this position where he's got to, like, confess what he does or lie to the person sitting next to him.

So great news. He confessed what he did, and it was awkward, but it was, you know, I remember us just laughing about this afterwards. 

[00:08:02] Jim Jansen: Oh, that's so good. 

[00:08:03] Dave Runyon: And then, Jim, one of the things that happened out of this is we decided, we did this thing called the Catholic Protestant thing, and he and I decided to do this at each, uh, at both churches.

We just sat on stools, and we invited people in, and we said, hey, we're going to talk about our friendship and what we've learned about each other's, you know, faith. And it was Overwhelming. The response. 

[00:08:26] Jim Jansen: Yeah. 

[00:08:27] Dave Runyon: Hundreds of people showed up just to see him. I sit on the stools and talk and then we encourage other people.

We, you know, my dream was, I've always had this, this piece of me, uh, you know, John 17, that we should all be one. And like, what, where are the places where Catholics and Protestants can work together? Isn't as friendship help my understanding of the church? And he and I were talking about, well, you know, local mission is probably the easiest place for us to work together.

We can be respectful of like different parts of our doctrine and beliefs, but look, we, we both have a deep calling to serve the poor and to go out and to, and to fulfill the mandate to help people in need. And so, we started to do some of those things. And then that ended up blossoming into what I do now for a living is that I help congregations work together.

Around systemic issues and in my city, and so I fell in love so much with that work that I left being a, the lead pastor, the pastor of the congregation where I was to start this work to start these pockets of collaborative work similar to within to the within reach stuff in Omaha. And so, anyway, this is a really long answer to your 1st question.

We're going to be here. We're going to be here all day. It's going to be a long form podcast, but I, I don't know. I just, it just, I sense the spirit with you, Jim. Uh, the same, it's all about like being curious. Being open and not being threatened like you and I can't you and I believe different things like we really do, And we have strong beliefs that are that are different. 

[00:10:00] Jim Jansen: Right? And we don't need to gloss over that, but we also don't need to let it be an obstacle. 

[00:10:07] Dave Runyon: We can find ways to look for the things that we have in common and stack hands on those and also be really Respectful of like I don't need to try to convince you to believe just like I do I don't sense that from you and and I think when we go in with that kind of respect for each other God can do some amazing things Using us together.

[00:10:29] Jim Jansen: So, let's just like jump into the topic here. Um, I was thinking it's like I was like Oh, I have to be truthful about this. How do I say this, Dave? I love your book, but it makes me uncomfortable I mean The call to neighbor as a father of Jesus is really compelling It's really compelling and it's convicting in ways.

I was like, oh man, I, I need to, I need to pay more attention to this. Talk about, I know this was a fruit of your own conversion, a conviction where the Lord did some really beautiful things. Walk us through that story. 

[00:11:01] Dave Runyon: Sure. Well, so Father Steven and I started to spend more and more time together. I started to gather other leaders, faith leaders from around our community.

And we decided to start hosting these community conversations. So, we'd bring in the police chief or the city manager. We brought in our mayor. Who is Catholic and we would all these, these conversations would always look the same. We just say, tell us about your call to our community and then tell us where you feel stuck.

What's keeping you up at night? If you could wave a magic wand and change something, what would you change in our, in our community? And so, as a group of faith leaders, we were asking those questions to civic leaders. Listening for, is there something going on that we should all be working on together? And so, I was sitting there in this room.

We had about 26 different faith leaders, both Catholic and Protestant. And mainly, you know, all, you know, everyone was Jesus centered in this room. And we asked our mayor, you know, what, what is it, what's keeping you up at night? What's the smartest thing we could do if we wanted to have an impact on our community and he had all kinds of things that he shared with us.

And at the very end, it's very much in passing. He said. You know, if you guys are like, really want to change our city, you should start thinking about like some kind of a neighboring movement. And then he just went on, he was like, started talking about something else. We're like, Hey, wait a minute, go back to that.

He said, yeah, you know, what we're learning at the city is that neighboring and relationships, Trump programs. He said, we have all these programs. We're doing a program for isolated elderly. We're doing a program for people who don't, you know, have a father figure in their life and we pay all this money.

We start these programs; we partner with a nonprofit. He goes, but what we know is that if that person is living in an apartment. Or a single-family home or rent. And that person is in need is actually known by the people right around them. They don't need any of the programs that we're providing. And we're sitting there in this room, listening to our mayor, tell us like, Hey, like, you know, like the great commandment, you know, when Jesus says like, love God with everything you have, love your neighbor.

Like if you would just, if could you get your people to actually do what the Bible says it might be the smartest thing you could do to change our city. And it was, uh, It was a profound and awful moment for us as pastors and priests to go, Oh, no, he's telling us to do the Bible. This is our job. And so that sent me, and by the way, he left the room and we all kind of looked at each other and we just did a quick audit, and we said, Hey, who's really engaged in their own neighborhood of all these faith leaders?

And it was depressing. Most of us. Myself included, we're so busy and taxed of like running the stuff that we were doing that we were coming home and treating our homes like a refuge where we were isolated instead of a place where we realize God has put the people around us here for a reason and that when you begin to start to like, do small things in your neighborhood, you can become a catalyst for building community.

So anyway, we ended up doing this joint sermon slash homily series, and we just decided, what if we all across our city just said, Hey, let's go and let's start doing this in our own life as faith leaders. But then let's encourage our people to do small things in their neighborhood, you know, to learn their neighbors’ names and to be part of good, good parties or gatherings.

And so that that was like this, the next step as we started to kind of roll this out publicly, and we were just shocked at how. How small things made a really big difference. And so the thought that we in the question that we haunted people with was, what if when Jesus said to love your neighbor, he meant your actual neighbors to, you know, and so sometimes I had made him, I had made the idea of loving my neighbor into a metaphor.

So, I, you know, I take the story of the good Samaritan and whenever you care for the person in front of you, you know, that's an act of loving your neighbor. And I just kind of thought to myself, you know, I'm in ministry. I'm doing all kinds of good stuff. I'm down. I organized trips to the rescue mission. I go and do this, I go and do that, but like.

I built some mental model where, because I was doing other things, which in Jesus's economy was loving your neighbor. I mean, when you go overseas and care for a person in front of your loving neighbor, but I had somehow made some strange like loophole where I basically acted functionally. Like when Jesus said, love my neighbor, he wasn't talking about my actual neighbors.

And so, in confronting that, confronting that gem, And then unwinding that has changed my life. 

[00:15:46] Jim Jansen: Yeah. You you talked about small things, and I just I think I want to go there because this is like. I mean, if when, when this starts to sink in, it's terrifying because I had, I mean, you talked about like, ah, how busy and my home just became a refuge, right?

Just like literally hiding from my neighbors, you know, like, ah, quick way to get crazy. If I could like, I like, I'm going, I should probably shut off the car before I put the garage door down because that's not healthy. But like, I'm just like, I'm hiding because I've overspent myself trying to build the kingdom while neglecting the other half of the great commandment.

Yes. Oh, crap. Yeah. So, I mean, so like, again, for, for those of you who are listening, you're like, oh, this is, you know, if you're starting to feel it, hang on, hang on. Like Dave is going to gently walk you through this. Yeah. Talk about some of the small things. Like, how'd you start living this? 

[00:16:39] Dave Runyon: Well, Jim, it's, it's kind of hard to love somebody when you don't know their first name.

So that was like the part for me. I mean, we, we had this assistant St. Andrew and said, Hey, like knowing names is really important. And, and then Jay, who wrote the book with me, like, you know, had this little exercise where it was just like a tic tac toe board and we had people put it on the fridge and we just said, your house is in the middle.

Think about the eight closest units to you. How many of, and let's just do this right now with our listeners. So, you're out there right now. Great news. Jim and I are not going to ask you to love your neighbors today. Like that's, that's radical. That's way too far. We're going to go way lower than that.

We're going to lower the bar for everybody. Okay. So, but I, I remember doing this exercise for the first time. So, you walk outside your front door, think about the eight closest units. If you're listening right now, how many of those people can you just take out a pen and paper and you can write down their names?

And man, I did this. And it just brought it made it made this idea of loving your neighbor really concrete because I had met all those people, but I was so busy, and the truth was. They weren't important enough to me to remember their name. I, I knew two of the couple's names of the eight that were closest to me.

And I met them all and I see him and wave and there's the dude with the blue truck, you know, and the annoying lady and all that stuff. Right. And I just decided. Because of this, you know, this push from the mayor and because I started to read the text and it, it started like passages I had preached on multiple times, and it read hundreds of times just sort of take on a new light and that'd be my prayer.

By the way, for all of us who are listening is that every once in a while, you have that moment where you're in the right place at the right time and God uses his word to speak into your life and to convict you of something. And that's what happened. He convicted me of this idea of this said, Hey, like, push.

You should be more engaged in your own neighborhood than you are. I felt like I was like, hey, and it's going to be a gift to you as much as it is to other people. And that's certainly turned out to be the case. But that is 100 percent of the case. Let me just say this, Jim, if you only get one thing off of this podcast, I would just say, would you just make a commitment to learn and remember and use your neighbor's names?

Like, just if you would, if you just do that, you will be surprised at the opportunities and at the breadcrumbs that God puts in front of you to follow. And so that's what happened to me. It was about learning names and then it was like learning a little bit more about their story, having some conversations about, you know, the Broncos or for you guys, the Huskers, that you want to talk about, you guys could identify and really connect around suffering.

If you talked about the Huskers, that'd be great. 

[00:19:23] Jim Jansen: Oh, yeah. It's like, it's like, it's like a little exile journey. That's, uh, you know, I'm just kind of beginning this journey. I have to say this because several times that we've been talking, I've been coming back to like, what the Lord asks, so like, right, the love your neighbor is for our good. It's, it's pleasant. It's good for us. It's healing. And just starting into this, I actually am back in the same neighborhood I grew up in as a kid. I bought my parents’ house when I moved to Omaha. And so, I'm like, I'm like, Oh, I've known you kind of for 40 years. But it's so good, and I'm, I don't know, there's a couple of times as we've been talking, I've been drawn back, I don't know how familiar you are with the work of John Mark Comer.

Very. Uh, some of his work, where he talks about the ruthless elimination of hurry. Oh man, slowing down is good for me. You know, like resting is good for me. I need to do it. And loving my neighbor is good for me. It's like I'm experiencing it as a healing thing, and it's not hard. I mean, you know, we'll talk about this, I'm sure, but there are hard moments.

There's certainly awkward, but it's What the Lord actually asks today is accessible to me, and it's good and, and pleasant. 

[00:20:45] Dave Runyon: I agree, and I just want to say this about John Mark Comer's stuff and Ruthless Elimination of Hurry. I think the pace that we live is one of our, is one of the best things that we have to offer to people in our world today.

I think that most people, including, you know, people that are, that are serious about their faith, are running around And just living at an unsustainable pace. And I think it's grinding on people. And I think like, if we, if we took Jesus seriously about what he teaches around pace around, like, I mean, we see it, he's healing people and the lines are long and he will, he will walk away and say, I'm going to go and be with the father.

Like if we could just help people to like, and preach this message of like, Hey, like when you're working, you should work hard. And when you're not working, you should not work. And it's like the best, that's the best way to live. And like, and like, I think it's one of the best apologetics we have to invite people into.

And I think the world is thirst, thirsting for it. 

[00:21:43] Jim Jansen: Totally. Totally. And it is like, uh, yeah, it, I get it. It's like, it's this healing thing where it's like, All of a sudden, you're like, wow, I like this Jesus guy. Like, this is a, this is a cool idea. I think there's something, I think there's something here.

It's like, yeah. But, often, whether it's loving our, the people who live next door or the pace we live, Uh, sometimes we don't look like Jesus that much. Dave, you've been at this for a while. Uh, you've inspired a lot of people to take their first steps in this. Talk about some of the fruit you've seen. In your own life and others who've taken up this call.

[00:22:21] Dave Runyon: Yeah, I'll start with my own life. You know, when you start to build connections with people based on proximity, you're guaranteeing that you're going to be spending time with people who think about the world differently than you do. So, I have, I have deep friendships with people who think really differently about, like, how to raise kids, about politics, the economy.

What happens, you know, their, their faith life, what they believe in. And I think it's really easy for us. And I think we've seen a lot of the consequences of living in a silo. And we are all seeing kind of this like extremely polarized dynamic that exists in our country right now. And I'm convinced that going out and learning your neighbor's names and being curious about them is the antidote to a lot of the polarization that we see.

And so it's been so life giving for me to be around people who, they do challenge me sometimes, they do, like, it is challenging, and sometimes, like, I don't like spending time with, like, There's a discipline in actually spending time with the people who are around you because they're not always the easiest people to hang out with and sometimes they're needy, you know, and sometimes it's so, but it's, it's been a gift and like, I, I'm convinced like this whole idea of like leaning into the literal idea of loving your neighbor has like brought in the light for me, this idea that like the way that Jesus talks about living, it really is the best way to live.

[00:23:58] Jim Jansen: And it's hard. It's actually hard to find a place where you can connect with people who are different than yourself. Like that. That sounds odd work for many of us. Maybe a gym. I mean, even when you're flying these days, everybody's got, you know, their headphones in or whatever. Like it's hard to connect with people.

And again, understandably, you know, if you when your kids go to a school, you connect with the other other families there, you go to a church, you connect deeply there. But yeah. Yeah. Neighborhoods have this opportunity for us to, yeah, I can actually connect with someone who, I mean, we haven't even started to talk about the potential for evangelization, but someone who's different and that's good for me, that's healthy for me, especially in the siloed, you know, social media constructed world we live in where we don't hear anything but ourselves.

[00:24:52] Dave Runyon: Yeah. And I think I was like a lot of people. Yeah. I, I wasn't having conversations like this, and I wasn't getting to know people's stories that were different than me. And so that's the part where the evangelization, where you have a chance to like, share about, like, why do I believe these things? And I just, like, the neighborhood has been the place.

In my life where people have asked me about why they're like, Hey, so, you know, when you're in ministry, like you and I are, you kind of work from a deficit, they're like, they're like, used to be a pastor or, you know, whatever it is, but. 

[00:25:26] Jim Jansen: That's weird. Cause you seem like a nice guy. 

[00:25:28] Dave Runyon: Exactly. You see, you seem, you seem somewhat normal.

And so, I just think it's been such a gift for me to be able to be curious about other people's stories. You know, one of my favorite questions is, you know, to ask somebody if I know them, right? And it feels like the right time to say, Hey, like, did you grow up with any kind of like faith framework? Or, Hey, here's a good one for both us, Protestants and Catholics.

Hey, have you, like, have you experienced some like weird? Like, you know, faith people in your life. Have you had, what kind of baggage do you have? That's like a, that's the start of a spiritual conversation is to allow people. Oh, let me tell you about this one time, right? 

[00:26:07] Jim Jansen: The guy that used to live in your house. 

[00:26:09] Dave Runyon: That was my dad.

[00:26:12] Jim Jansen: Just kidding. 

[00:26:12] Dave Runyon: But yeah, yeah, Exactly. And so, I think there's ways for us to have spiritual conversations that don't have all of this heat on them of like, I've got to convince this person to believe this and just being curious about people's stories. And then they invite, they've invited you into the conversation to say, Hey, What about you?

Do you grow up with any kind of faith? I'm like, yeah, I'm able to like, share, like, here's the spiritual heritage that I was a part of, and here's things that I like about it, and here's things that I don't like about it. And so, that's a lot of the fruit for me, has like, the neighborhood has been the lab to live out the gospel.

Like some of like what we do on Sundays is great. That should be us getting like fueled up and equipped. But that's not the end game. The end game is like for us to go out and to actually be a part of and use the gifts that we have and the wiring that we have to help further the mission of God in our everyday lives.

[00:27:07] Jim Jansen: Right? I mean, at best, it is one seventh of our Christian life. Hopefully, Dave, you seem like this has started to, I mean, it's had effects. I'm thinking both just like this neighboring movement, individual lives, people being changed, but also, I'm thinking about some of the like the it's not poverty stats, but just like, oh, some of the first responder stuff.

I've heard you speak about that before. Just talk a little bit about some of those things. And then just again, more of the fruit that you've seen as people have taken up this call. 

[00:27:41] Dave Runyon: Yeah, I think one of the big things that we saw systemically is the calls to code enforcement. Yeah. I don't know what you guys call it, like, like code enforcement calls for us are just like, all right, there's something going on.

There's a house that's like, you know, windows are broken or not being fixed or all that kind of stuff. You know, or this person's not shoveling their walk and it's a danger. The call when we, after we started this a couple of years in, we started to see the calls to code enforcement fall off a cliff.

[00:28:06] Jim Jansen: That's so awesome. 

[00:28:07] Dave Runyon: And it was so, that was like one, they were like, you know, we have this assistant city manager come to us and go listen. I can't give you empirical data that you're that this is the reason, but we did see the number of block parties, you know, 10 X in our community. And she just said, like, the only thing that we can point to of why this is happening is because people are getting to know each other and they're walking across the street when something looks off and actually talking face to face with somebody instead of just picking up the phone and calling the city and.

I was like, yeah, that's the good stuff. That's when, you know, and, you know, that's when, you know, people are actually starting to have a heart for one another instead of just being angry and trying to kind of abdicate the role of, like, checking in on somebody to the city. 

[00:28:54] Jim Jansen: I remember, I don't I don't know if it was you or Jay, but tell this really powerful story where like, you know, it's a scenario that begins with somebody's got like a broken down vehicle or like they're not cutting the grass, not shoveling the snow and somebody makes the decision, they step across the street and they find themselves stepping into the life of, I think it was a single mother who was really in need.

I don't quite remember the context, but it was a beautiful story. 

[00:29:23] Dave Runyon: Yes, that yeah. And then time after time with the people that you start to lean towards people that live around you and I don't want to paint some rosy picture, by the way, it's messy and it's hard and it's beautiful and it's all of that at the same time.

Yeah, and I think you're referring to is, uh, J ended up having somebody like, he started kind of like lean towards him and get to know them more. And then all of a sudden, he and his wife went through a really hard stretch and this guy ended up sleeping on his couch at his house. And he's like, I think I'm doing this wrong.

I don't, I don't think this is how I'm supposed to do this. It's like, 

[00:30:00] Jim Jansen: we're actually, we're not neighbors anymore because you're living in my house. 

[00:30:03] Dave Runyon: Right, exactly. And so that's what I want to say to the, to the listeners is like. I don't want to paint this to be some scary awful thing, but it is real.

There are neighbors that don't want to be your friend. You're going to learn their name, and it's going to end right there. There's other neighbors that are just dying for relationship. If you look at the stats around isolation and loneliness in our country, it is a epidemic right now. And COVID exacerbated it, and it still exists.

And you're going to find people who are really have, like, high needs. And who want to be around you, maybe more than you want to be around them. And that's okay. I still haven't found the place in the Gospels, Jim, where Jesus calls us to a life of comfort. 

[00:30:44] Jim Jansen: Keep looking. And when you find it, if you could highlight it and send it my way.

[00:30:47] Dave Runyon: Right. But it's a life of meaning in a purpose that is deeper than anything anybody imagined. But there are times where you feel like, all right, this is a little bit out of my comfort zone. And so, the thing that we've learned about neighboring is that the one thing that you need to be a good neighbor is you need the courage to lean into mildly awkward conversations and moments with the people who live around you.

And if you'll do that, if you'll just like, like for me, one of the early ones was going up to a neighbor I've lived next to for three years who I've met, you know, multiple times and going, Hey, this is embarrassing. I forgot your name and then to realize that he remembered my name and then to, you know, but just to like, that's a mildly awkward moment.

And I could have looked it up on the internet, but something is, something is profound about the face-to-face stuff. So, to walk across the street and see somebody and just go, Hey, listen, we've been saying that we're going to have you guys over for like five years and we've never done it. Let's actually do it this weekend.

Okay, that's a mildly awkward moment. The payout is huge. The payout on the other side is massive. And so being willing to do that, being willing to be stretched a little bit. If you're an introvert, you don't have to become a whole different person. Okay. You can still, but you, you can just invite people into things that you're already up to.

Okay. And, and so. Just this idea of, of taking the great commandment literally and seriously has changed my life. And then as we've gone around the country and being able to share our story and just so like, you know, to pose this haunting question of like, what if you met your actual neighbors too? We've just seen congregations and individuals activated into their neighborhood to become catalysts and places who are the connectors of community in their neighborhoods.

Yeah, we all want that. Everybody looks everywhere I go, especially people that are older will go. Oh, I remember when I remember when people I've missed that so much. Well, if you miss it, or if you want it, then we should, we should do something about it. And the great news is it's like the most basic thing that Jesus said to do.

[00:32:50] Jim Jansen: Yeah. Dave, I want to like, you know, we can talk all day about this, but maybe if we can insulate people a little bit who are like, oh man, they're starting to think about their neighbors, or maybe they're starting to imagine, you know, The weirdness that might be behind, you know, that, that other door or lurking behind the curtains, like, what do you do when things get weird?

Just just a little boundaries here to kind of reassure people that we're not going off the cliff, you know, that we can be safe, that we can persevere through the awkwardness. 

[00:33:20] Dave Runyon: Yeah, I want to be really clear about this, too. Like, if you think something's, like, dangerous or, like, sketchy, then, like, don't throw yourself into a situation like that.

If you have a situation in your neighborhood right now where there's just been some bad blood before, where there's, it's one of those neighbors where you drive, you come around the corner, and you see their car, and, like, your, your stomach tightens a little bit, because Your dog's loud and they complained about it or vice versa.

And it just, you, you find yourself in a strange stalemate with them. There's an opportunity there for, for the people of God to lean back in. And I've seen this 1 conversation pay off over and over again. And it goes something like this. It's just walking up to that neighbor who maybe it's been bumpy with in the past and saying, hey, you know what?

I'd love I'd love just to try to reset things. I'd love a fresh start. Like, I know that we've had some disagreements in the past, but like, also when the, when the people of God show up with that kind of a posture, and maybe it'll go well, but just just surfacing the opportunity for a fresh start. What you're saying is like.

Hey, I kind of want to forgive what's happened in the past and, and try again at reconnecting, or at least just being kind to one another. Just doing that is one of like the most powerful things you can do in a situation where there's been some animosity in the past. 

[00:34:40] Jim Jansen: Yeah. I mean, blessed are the peacemakers.

[00:34:42] Dave Runyon: That's right. That's right. But we don't take this stuff seriously when it comes to our own neighborhood. We read all this stuff in the text. I, and I'm, listen, I'm guilty. I've, I've, I was a pastor. Who wasn't engaged in his own neighborhood, so I'm not throwing rocks at anybody that like, you know, I, I get it, but we read all of this stuff and the teachings of Jesus, but then somehow, we build up some insular wall.

We don't think it actually applies to the people who live next door who have, like, a really annoying dog, you know, or who have a son whose car is really, really loud and awful and wakes me up every day. I think there's a reason why when Jesus was asked to boil the entire text down to one thing, he said, love God with your heart, mind, soul, strength, and love your neighbor.

[00:35:26] Jim Jansen: Yeah. 

[00:35:27] Dave Runyon: I think he's given us a simple strategic plan that if believers did it, we would change the world overnight. But most of us aren't doing it. And that's not okay. 

[00:35:37] Jim Jansen: One of the things that you share in the book, I mean, there's all sorts of great practicals in there. And I, and I will, we'll link to the art of neighboring.

I was clicking around. Like cool guides for how to do a block party. And it's really, really great ideas about inviting other people into the process and just simple things to get started. One of the things that really captured my imagination was. Letting yourself need something from your neighbor. Can you talk a little bit more about that?

[00:36:10] Dave Runyon: Yeah, I, I'm glad you picked up on that, Jim. I think it's one of the best practices that we can do. 

[00:36:15] Jim Jansen: It's, it's the one I'm the best, best at, by the way. 

[00:36:19] Dave Runyon: When I started thinking about this, My default went to who can I serve in my neighborhood? And there's a time for that. Look, there's a widow that lives like on our little loop of 42 homes.

And when she has needs, there's a time to show up and to say, Hey, I can help fix the fence. I can do this. That was like everything I was thinking. And what I learned is, is that when I show up like that, that the relationship has a ceiling, it's not really reciprocal. And I don't like to receive, I don't like to be the one that's, that's receiving something because I'd rather, it's way easier for me to show up and be the person that's like giving or serving.

But if you show up like that all the time, those relationships will be stunted. And what I have chosen to like believe is that like the more in touch with things that I need and the more I'm willing to invite people into that, the deeper relationships go. I could be accused of being one of those people that like, I'm there for everybody and like their moment of crisis.

And then when they go, Hey, how are things in your world? I'm like, Oh, I'm good. You know, I'm good. And we all probably have friends like that, those relationships have a ceiling. And so. 

[00:37:34] Jim Jansen: Yeah. 

[00:37:35] Dave Runyon: Just doing small things and it doesn't have to be going over and borrowing a cup of milk or, you know, eggs instead of doing a 30-minute round trip to the grocery store.

But that, that could be a good thing. It might just be. Looking at your neighbor who has a killer lawn, it looks like a golf course fairway and yours doesn't and just saying, Hey, tell me, like, what do you do over there every year? Like, how come? Like, you know, clearly my neighbor is super passionate about this.

He spends like, A crazy amount of time over there doing that. Like, I could learn something like, I'm the kind of person my, my mechanical IQ is so low that, like, I go to get my oil changed and then they come out and they, like, sucker you with, like, oh, by the way, you need an air filter, you need, uh, your light, your headlights getting ready to go out and all that stuff.

Like I can get gouged and pay for that or my neighbor who was over here on the side that works on his car every day. I see him out there every day. This guy clearly knows cars. I just walked over there one time. I was like, Hey, listen, if I go buy the bulb, could you help me? Could you show me how to do this?

And I really didn't want to learn. I just wanted him to like, basically do it for me, but anyway, like the art of receiving is real. That's what I want to tell everybody. Like there's an art to receiving and when you receive something, you're giving dignity to the person who's helping you. 

[00:38:59] Jim Jansen: Yeah. It turns out that's winsome.

That's winsome. 

[00:39:03] Dave Runyon: Yeah. 

[00:39:04] Jim Jansen: Dave, I want to get, gosh, I want to give you a chance to touch on The potential for evangelization, but but maybe like the dangers that we have to avoid lest we turn kind of like loving our neighbors in into a strategy because there's real potential here. And I, you know, I know many, many churches are struggling link.

You know, there's particularly mainline denominations where we're shrinking, you know, there's just as many people in the neighborhood and less and less people in the pews. There's a danger, there's a potential, kind of walk us through that. 

[00:39:44] Dave Runyon: Well, the danger is this. The danger is that there's a lot of people who live around this who have had negative experiences with, you know, whether it's Catholics or Protestants or religious people, whatever it is.

And so, anytime you show up and start being kind and people know that that you're a Christian, there's some people that are like, on their back foot already going, okay. What, what weird thing are they gonna do to me next? Right? Or when is the, when is the other shoe gonna drop? And the reason why that's the case is because they've been wounded, and they've experienced something in the past that didn't feel good to them.

And so, I just think we need to go, like, I wish that wasn't the case. Like I, I really do. But it, we need to go in and realize that like this is. This is the current state of affairs that we live in, and we need to show up as the type of people who are aware of that, and if we can tell somebody is like backing away or is scared or concerned, then just be friendly, like our motives really matter.

I would say this, whether or not they have that vibe or not, like our motives matter. When we show up and we go, listen, if, if that person never comes to know God, then the command to love that my neighbor still stands. When we show up with that kind of posture, all of a sudden, we're not having strings attached.

We're not having ulterior motives. We have a genuine, like, like this is a, this is a discipline that God asked me to do. This isn't an evangelism strategy when I, okay, I'm going to be really honest. When we first started this, I was like, this is totally going to be an evangelism deal. Like I was like, I could, people are going to come to know.

But here's the truth in our current culture, is that if you go into this thinking it's an evangelism thing, it doesn't, it doesn't pay off nearly as much fruit. If you go into this believing this is a discipline, that like, this is something God has called me to do, then it opens up doors for spiritual conversations all over the place.

So, I think we just got to be honest with our posture, the extreme of where people err mostly on this side, isn't that they get too eager to, like, share their faith. Most people go out, start having beers with their neighbors for 10 years, all they talk about is, like, sports and the weather, or their golf game, and they, for some reason, they get into the friend zone, and they never really talk about things of depth.

That's what we, that's an error too, we've got to protect against that. I think if we can learn to talk about things below the surface with people, we won't be able to stop talking about, like, we won't be able to help ourselves. We'll have opportunities to talk about why we've chosen to orient our life around God.

And, but the question is like, are you, are you talking about things below the surface? Are you having conversations with your neighbors that are like, Hey, listen, like your kids are 10 years older than mine. What, what have you learned? Like, what would you tell yourself 10 years ago? What advice would you give me?

How'd you end up in this line of work? Like what was this? Like, did you know that you wanted to do this from the time that you were younger? Or is this something that like you fell into a circumstance? Like when we start to have conversations like that, then the jump to, Hey, tell me about how like you like, how do you think about like your faith or God?

Or do you even think God exists? That's like a, that's an easy jump to that. If you're already having conversations of depth, does that make sense? Yeah. 

[00:43:04] Jim Jansen: Yeah. No, it makes. Yeah. Yeah, it makes perfect sense. I mean, it's like, Oh, I'm going to like actually treat this person like they're a complete person.

There's a story. There's a life. There's a, there's, there's something here that's worth getting to know. And, and then it's just, um, yeah, then it's just reciprocal. They're like, Oh, you want to know me? A big, big part of me is what God did in my life. Man, Dave, this is, this is all so good. So, you know, a lot of people listening, they're leaders, and maybe it's just my, my bent, but they're like, Ooh, okay.

But if you did want to make it an evangelization strategy, like how do you, or, or just, just for the, for those who are like, okay, I'm convicted, but I know I can't do this alone. I need to bring people with me. How do you begin to share this vision with other people because it can be overwhelming and how startling it is like, oh my gosh, how did I just like know the second commandment and not know the second commandment?

So how do you, how do you gently bring others into this? Thanks. Realization and this call. 

[00:44:12] Dave Runyon: Yeah, and I think first is knowing that this is better together. This is better with others. For one reason, like, if you throw a block party, it's nice to know that you, like at least one other family is going to show up.

You know. That's awesome. But the reality is this. There's people all around us, there's people all around every single listener who have like a similar faith belief system and, and it might be eight houses away. It might be 10, but doing this and like the, the idea of loving your neighbor or just being a catalyst for community right where you are is something that others would would join in on that they would want.

And they probably are doing it out of there because of some of their faith convictions. But you've got to get to know some names and get to know some stories. If you don't know that that's true. I mean, that's one of the tragic things, right? We've got Protestants and Catholics all over the place living within houses of each other and not even knowing it, not even knowing that there's a shared belief system that's that's going on.

And so, like, learning, you're doing the small things 1st is a big deal, but I would just encourage people This is one of the best ways that Catholics, Protestants, other people, like, can work together in a real tangible way. And so, I don't know, like, I don't want to be, like, the schmoozy guy that's, like, going, Go buy this book and, like, read it with a neighbor.

But that's one way. If you want to save yourself the time of reading the book, just Send them this podcast link and just say, Hey, listen, I do is just listen to this guy. Tell a story about the neighboring stuff. Take a listen to this, and let's talk about, could we start building something in our community?

People will, the odds of somebody listening to a podcast are way greater than them reading a book. Yeah, it's so, you know, but just find a way to go. I don't know. I heard this story. I'm going to be out. We'll put this in the show notes. I'll be out in Omaha; I think on the 15th of February. That's doing an event that's open to the public that if somebody happens to be in that area, I know your listeners are all over the place, but, you know, like, just expose people to this idea of the power and the value of neighboring and then say, Hey, what would it look like for us to do this, you know, right here on our block or in our apartment complex or condo?

[00:46:24] Jim Jansen: I love it. What about those who are like, okay, they, they wanna get started with this. Their heads kind of swimming, they're like, oh my gosh. I'm like, I, uh, I don't know. Yeah. It's like I, it's like the guy with a blue truck and they're, you know, they're like trying to figure out their neighbors, trying to think about who might do this with me.

They're like, did I really just misread the Good Samaritan? Just all the stuff is kind of swirling around. 

[00:46:46] Dave Runyon: Yeah. 

[00:46:47] Jim Jansen: Where would you encourage people to begin? 

[00:46:49] Dave Runyon: Draw a tic tac toe board on a piece of paper and put it on your fridge where you're going to look at it and you're going to have to see it every day.

And fill in the names that you know, and then just make a commitment to learn the names with an in-person interaction, like in the next two months. And it'll be hard because it's winter right now, but you can do it. And like, look for a time where they're outside grabbing their mail, look for a time where, you know, just pray and say, God, please help me cross paths with the right people and just start learning some names and just put their names on your fridge.

And when you think about them, you know, maybe say a prayer for them, maybe just like use their name when you see them next time you see them out there. Like, this is so simple. When Jay and I wrote this book, we were like. Oh, this is cool. Our moms are going to read this book and like tell other people that like, we're like, nobody's going to buy a book that just says, learn your neighbor's names and like throw good parties.

But it turns out it's so simple that it's repeatable. And it, and by the way, learning people, learning your neighbor's names is like a Trojan horse. To get you to do all kinds of other stuff, because once you so, so much of momentum is just getting started. And so, once you take that 1st step, there's gonna be some places where it doesn't go anywhere that there's going to be others where you're just going to keep taking the next small step and the next small step in the next small step.

But the 1st step is the hardest 1 that 1st step in the right direction. And so, I would just encourage people to do something small or, you know, I'd say this, you know, Jim. Mm hmm. I'd say, pray and just say, pray a simple prayer and just say, God, would you put on my heart one person in my neighborhood that you'd like me to move towards and it would just put somebody on my heart and then I will do that out of obedience, you know, so just actually starting to do it is the whole thing.

Yeah, it's not rocket science at all. 

[00:48:39] Jim Jansen: Yeah, I love that. I've been, I mean, since I've been kind of leaning in this, I, I've been taking Sunday morning walks. And trying to pray and occasionally, like, right, connect with my neighbors, just walking around Sunday morning. It's now kind of part of my Sunday morning prayer routine, and it's been awesome.

Great, great stuff has been happening in those simple little conversations. 

[00:49:02] Dave Runyon: Yeah, what you're doing, Jim, is you're being visible, and you look like you're interruptible. Like, if we can be visible and interruptible in our neighborhoods. It's game over like good, you know, you, you probably have five stories of different small little interactions that have happened because you were walking.

[00:49:17] Jim Jansen: Yeah. Dave, how can people connect with you? We will link to the book, but if people want to find out more. Uh, how do they connect? 

[00:49:24] Dave Runyon: They can go to Art of Neighboring. There's a lot of free resources for Catholic leaders. You know, they're leading parishes. It's it's a little bit different. Like we we did it with like the sermon series.

I remember Father Stephen once looked at me early on. And he just goes, so, hey, do you guys just like make up everything you talk about every weekend? And I started, I was like, what do you mean? He goes like, you don't have a liturgy or you're just making all this stuff up. And I, he's like, that just seems exhausting.

And I was like, man, he's right. Uh, but anyway, there's like, there's made up sermon series for churches that don't use liturgy, but then, you know, there's, there's also resources that. Anyone could use it to think about in leadership of like how to lead a congregation through this. And then there's just resources for individuals, you know, to think about this as well.

That's art of neighboring. com. It's easy to find. 

[00:50:17] Jim Jansen: Boom. Yeah, we will link to both of those. Thank you for this. This is really, this is really fun. We were like. I was like scared. It's like, man, I got to really watch the time because I was, I was afraid we're going to dive into this and end up, you know, six hours later. 

[00:50:31] Dave Runyon: Let's do it again.

Sometime, Jim, I'll be out there when we do it in person or we'll just do it, you know, like, I'd love that. That'd be fun. 

[00:50:37] Jim Jansen: Yeah, that'd be, that'd be totally fun. Thank you. Thank you for what you're doing. All right, everybody, you know, somebody who needs to hear this. Maybe it's your neighbor, right? This is like someone who's going to like go with you.

They want to, they feel this call. They want to build a community. Maybe it's a friend. Start with a podcast book can come come later when you get to your destination or when you're in a safe space Share this out with somebody who needs to hear it. Thanks everybody. Thanks for listening to the equip cast We hope this episode has inspired you to live your faith and equip you to be fruitful in your mission Stay connected with us by going to equip dot arch Omaha dot org.

God bless and see you next time.