[00:00:00] Jim: Alright everybody, today I got to sit down with Mallory Smythe. Mallory is the author of Rekindled, How Jesus Called Me Back to the Catholic Church and Set My Heart Afire. Mallory is a proud Cajun and a missionary at heart, uh, and we have a great conversation about how do you connect with people who are on the outside of the church?
Maybe they've been raised Catholic, maybe they've never been Catholic, but how do you rediscover the heart? That Jesus has for these people and how do you embody God's love to help them find their way back to their home in the church? Uh, you're going to love the conversation today. Take a listen. 

[00:00:43] Intro: Hey everybody. Welcome to the EquipCast, a weekly podcast for the Archdiocese of Omaha. I'm your host, Jim Jansen. Now let's dive into some encouragement and inspiration to equip you to live your faith and to be fruitful in your mission. Let's go.

[00:01:00] Jim: Mallory Smythe, welcome to the EquipCast. How you doing? 

[00:01:04] Mallory: I'm great. Thanks so much for having me. 

[00:01:06] Jim: Well, thank you for being here I think I’m trying to think like how long we've known each other now. It's been a while You know, I got a chance to work with uh your husband Jared and I love your book rekindled We're gonna get a chance to talk about that Um, but I’ll give you a little intro here and then let you Talk about yourself, but Mallory, you've you're the content creator for walking with purpose.
You served as a focus missionary. You work with Endow, and we're going to get a chance to talk about your book rekindled but give people a little bit of a personal intro, uh, to you and your story. 

[00:01:39] Mallory: Yeah. And I just have to say, I heard about you way before I met you cause you were like a legend. It's so fun.
I don't know where we met, but it was, I know I was with Jared, and I was like. That's Jim Jansen. That's the guy. 

[00:01:51] Jim: That's weird. I thought he'd be taller. Yeah. Being an old guy in FOCUS will do that. Yeah. 

[00:01:56] Mallory: And then, and then the legacy fades fast. I learned that too. Oh yeah. So anyway, I'm Mallory Smythe. I live in Denver with my husband, Jared, with four daughters and a fifth baby on the way.
Originally from South Louisiana. Um, so I am a Cajun and I, I come from the land of Cajun accents, but I've actually never had one. 

[00:02:12] Jim: Yeah. But deep, deep roots there. 

[00:02:15] Mallory: Deep roots. Yes. Yes. So, I'm, was raised Catholic, uh, from a very devout Catholic family. I, um, I joke my, my mom's one of nine, my dad's one of 10 and then like really both sides of like my grandparents prayed like hours before breakfast.
Like they got it, just got it out of the way and then they were able to have their coffee. 

[00:02:32] Jim: Wow. Wait, what? So, both of your, both parents and grandparents are like deeply devoted, like doing a personal quiet time. 

[00:02:39] Mallory: Oh yeah. I mean, my mom's mom. She would tell us, like, she prayed her rosary for all of her kids every day.
That was her big thing. And then my, my dad's mom and my dad's dad. Yeah, they were just devotional people. I mean, I did like couple hours of prayer and then it was time for coffee, you know? And just, yeah, there, I feel like their house was just full of like our lady of Fatima statues or Our Lady of Medjugorje.

[00:03:06] Jim: That's awesome. 

[00:03:07] Mallory: So yeah, deep roots in South Louisiana, deep roots in the Catholic faith. Um, I grew up. Really knowing my faith. Well, I walked away from my faith in college, like this statistic that says 80 percent of people walk away from their faith in college. Um, and it succeeded in making myself miserable, trying to follow what the world said that had to offer me.
Um, and so really in a moment of humility and desperation, I said a prayer to a God that I didn't know if existed. And, uh, he answered that prayer. I ended up coming back to the church. Uh, well, no, I didn't come back to the church. I came back to Jesus through the evangelical church, fell in love with evangelicalism and developed quite a bit of bitterness towards the Catholic church and, and just real anger for a number of years.
And then as God would have it, he decided that he didn't want that for me anymore. And so, he called me back to the Catholic church and taught me everything I needed to know to fall in love with it. And then after I fell in love with it, I entered into ministry life. That kind of brought me all over the country to a couple of different continents.
And now I'm here in Denver doing the mom thing on, you know, part time ministry. 

[00:04:13] Jim: Yeah. I mean, we always have everybody who comes on the equip cast, like tell a little bit of like, they're like, Hey, how'd you meet Jesus story, but that's really, I mean, it's really formative for your work and in particular the, the book rekindled because, you know, more than I think most people, you still remember.
What it was like to be on the outside of the church, you know, to be living a life without Jesus and that's just really clear. There's a, there's an empathy. There's an understanding like you still get the confusion and I say confusion. I don't mean that in a pejorative sense, but like the people on the outside who look at the church are like, I don't get it.
Why do you guys do that? None of this makes sense to me. And some of it I even find offensive and you're like, I know you can empathize with that, I think, in a really helpful way because I think you can help us reconnect with those in our life, coworkers, friends, our own family, uh, who are not living the faith and help us kind of understand where they're at so we can actually meet them again.

[00:05:18] Mallory: Yeah, well, and that, that's actually one of the reasons I wrote the book because When I came back, I just, like I said, I discovered this, I mean, this beautiful, the Catholic Church is so beautiful. Like, the faith is so beautiful, uh, but all my friends, we all went to Catholic school and most of my friends were either nominal or fallen away, um, and had real no interest in faith.
And when I would hear their stories or even just thinking about my own experience, I'm like, yeah, well, I would leave too. Oh, I did leave, you know, like. Oh, if I experienced that, I would leave too. And I just like, there was such a desire for me. Um, and it almost like, this book is not cowardly, but in a certain sense, it kind of is.
Because it's like, my deep desire for them to say like, why did you come back? And for me to be like, let me tell you. But they never ask, right? And so, and I'm never like, hey, like, let me tell you why I came back to the faith. And so, the book was, if I could sit with, All of these people who have walked away, my friends, or just people I've met on planes, or, you know, mothers and fathers who tell me about their kids who've fallen away.
If I could get them in a room and get them to ask me the tough questions, this is what I would say back. I would say, I experienced what you experienced. I understand what you're thinking, and I want you to know there's more. Like, you're not wrong, but there's just more to the story. Right. 

[00:06:38] Jim: I've been there, and I know the other half.
Exactly. Yeah. Okay. So, let's, let's dive in. Mallory, for those who have never not been Catholic, you know, like, I mean, I, I was raised Catholic, you were raised Catholic and I wandered and we both wandered, you know, but like, it's difficult to remember that sometimes, like what it was like to not be Catholic or to not think Or, and believe catholicly, if that's a verb, anyway, or adverb, whatever.
Give us a picture of like, what does it look like and sound like and feel like to be on the outside? 

[00:07:12] Mallory: First of all, right, I mean, Catholicism is, the hallmark of our faith is the mass, right? Like, if you're catholic, you go to mass, whether, whether you like it or not, whether you understand it or not, like, that's what, I was raised catholic, I was raised going to mass.
And the mass, In a lot of ways is inside baseball. There's a time to stand. There's a time to sit. There's a time to kneel. There are certain responses. So just with that alone, right? If I have never been Catholic, you're looking around like, how do these people know this? And I don't know what I'm doing.

[00:07:42] Jim: Right. Cause there aren't any verbal cues. I mean, very rarely does the celebrant say, all right, everybody sit down. Right. Usually at a wedding or a funeral when there's a whole bunch of non-Catholics who are totally confused. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, there's no cues yet everybody knows their part. 

[00:07:57] Mallory: And then on the other hand, it's like, what are they doing?
Not that there needs to be, but there's no explanation of like, okay, like here's the liturgy of the word, like where we take the apostles and we read from the old Testament and the Psalms and the new Testament and the gospel. And now we're moving into the liturgy of the Eucharist. And we believe about the Eucharist, like there's none of that.
And so, it looks like it's a foreign ritual to somebody who either never learned, right? They're just, this is what we do, or doesn't know, right? They're coming in from the outside. That's actually not right or wrong. I mean, the mass is a deeply mysterious and beautiful ritual. You can't just have like, well, here's your card, right?
But I think it's important for us as Catholics to recognize When we're talking to people who don't know what we believe to be able to explain in layman terms, what we believe. 

[00:08:47] Jim: That's huge. I mean, I'll just give like a silly little illustration of what you're talking about, but I, I had some friends not long ago who not Catholic Christian, but they were at mass and like before the gospel where we kind of sign our forehead.
And our mouths and our hearts that gesture happened so quickly, they didn't know what was going on and they thought we were like taking our thumb and like putting up our like our nose. So, like thumbing our like literally thumbing our nose at Jesus and they're like that seems weird and praise God they were like they didn't.
They knew they were confused. They're like, that probably wasn't what happened, but man, it looked like that's what everybody just did. And it was like, wow. Like, I mean, it's just something that I didn't even, for the longest time, I didn't know what they were talking about until it's like, oh, this is just, you've just not seen this or done this.
Right. Yeah. It's just crazy. And it's easy for us to forget. Yeah. So how do you do that? How do you start to talk about your faith in a way that is intelligible to people who, who don't have that language and experience? 

[00:09:50] Mallory: Well, we have to know two stories and they're kind of the same story, but they're different.
We need to know the gospel story. So, what is the gospel message? What is Roman 6, 23, for the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus. What does that mean? And how is it actually playing out in our reality? And as Catholics, most of us. We've never fully learned the story of the gospel cohesively, but for me, that was actually the thing that captured my heart.
So, uh, whenever I came back to my faith and I was sitting with an evangelical, uh, mission leader and he sat me down and he, he used more than just Romans 6, 23, but he walked me through the illustration of the gospel. 

[00:10:31] Jim: Yeah. This is the good news. 

[00:10:33] Mallory: This is the good news. This is why we do everything we do. And I think if we know that.
Then that actually informs everything we do as Catholics, like we pray the rosary because of the gospel. We receive the Eucharist because of the gospel. We read the scriptures, like all, we go to confession, all these things, they flow out of the gospel and the gospel for Christians is the universal language.

[00:10:55] Jim: Yes, it's what bridges are, hopefully Lutheran, but certainly evangelical Protestants. They're like, well, like when they. Find a Catholic that understands and has embraced the gospel their eyes light up because yes That's their passion, too. 

[00:11:13] Mallory: I've actually been thinking about this recently Because for me like I still very much love my Protestant brothers and sisters and I still feel I have so much to learn from them They're just so good at certain things and in my mind, I'm like, oh like what our faith isn't so different but in their mind they're like Yeah, it is.
And I realized, I realized, I was thinking about this. It's because, right, we say that the Catholic Church is the fullness of truth. So, we have everything they have already. So, their faith in it, I mean, except for heresy, um, we have, All the goodness that they believe already baked into the cake of our Catholic faith.
And so that wouldn't be foreign to us. But we have so much more and they're like, don't know what to do with it. 

[00:11:59] Jim: And like sometimes, and maybe this is where you're going, they only see the extras and they don't see the common core. 

[00:12:06] Mallory: Right. Absolutely. If we allow our hearts to be transformed by it and we can articulate it in our own words.
In the words of 2023, then we can explain it to our Protestant brothers and sisters, and we can explain it to our friends who have no faith or are searching because that is the underlying story of the world. It's the true story of the world. Yeah, the thing is, everybody believes in a certain story. We all believe in something.
And so, whenever we're paying attention to. You know, what our friends are saying, we can say, Oh, they're looking for fulfillment in this story. Well, the gospel meets that story in this manner, right? And now I can explain that. And so, you're not, you're not saying, come on in. And like, here's all this stuff that you can't understand.
You're saying I'm coming to you with something that you were made for, and I can explain it to you in a way that you can get it. Now, maybe you won't believe it. Maybe you'll reject it. But at least you'll understand enough to make a decision. So that would be the first thing. And the second thing, which is, like I said, it's the same story, but different is our own personal testimony, right?
So whenever, when somebody starts talking and bad mouthing the church to me, um, right. Cause there's many people who have many issues with the church. I can actually say like, you know what? You have some valid arguments. Like for sure. Let me tell you what coming to know Jesus and practicing the Catholic faith has done for me in my own life.
And that can actually kind of break through some of that, well yeah, like the priest scandals, and the this, and the that, and the this, like, all true. Right, right. But my faith takes place here. Yes, I am part of the institutional church. Yes, I participate. But the transformation's happening in here. Right. And it's making a difference.

[00:13:49] Jim: I mean, that's powerful at so many levels. One You're like, no, don't minimize the concerns and scandal and confusion and frustration. Just take it deeper to say, you know, I agree. Can I tell you what I'm finding, nonetheless? That first point you made where you're talking about like, you know, just being able to know the core message of the gospel so well that you can articulate it in a way that people understand, uh, we were talking about this before we turn, turn on the mics, like, I still have such strong memories of your wedding, your occasion through and through.
So, we have this, you have this beautiful New Orleans wedding, which was fantastic, very fun in and of itself, but I still remember you making a toast. And you know, everybody's got to listen to the bride. She gets her like, you know, she gets her like platform moments like this is my party and you used it to preach the gospel.
And I don't remember the whole thing, and I know you don't remember the whole thing, but it was like, it was like, listen, if you think this party is fun, this is nothing shy of heaven, and this man loves me, and he would do anything for me, but there's a man who loves you, and who gave his life for you, and it was just like, it was such a beautiful song, um.
So, Articulation of the gospel that was like, Hey, everybody look around like this is a taste of what God is offering. It was so awesome. It was so fun. It was like this illustration of like you took the timeless message. God loves us enough. To forgive us and bring us together and you just like, like, Hey, everybody, look around.
We're, we're getting a taste of it. Now. Uh, it was very fun. And I have yet to hear a bride, you know, offer her thank you toast and like preach the gospel for it. But it's like, well, it's Mallory is a missionary through and through. 

[00:15:36] Mallory: It was great. Well, okay. So, I don't know if you know this as you're saying that you, first of all, you're getting me excited.
I'm like, yes, let's go to the heaven party. So, in, um, Louisiana weddings, you don't normally do toast at the reception. You do them all the way before. And so, some of my friends, some of my, um, we let the maid of honor and the best man. And then I think, uh, did Jared say something? He probably did. I think he did.
Yeah. It was like the four of us. And some of my friends were like, why are you doing this? Like we should 

[00:16:06] Jim: be dancing. I know why she's doing this. it was important. Yeah, oh, it was so, it was so fantastic. It was really cool. Okay, so let's just kind of jump in. Like, one of the things, and you mentioned like, ah, like the scandals with priest leadership.
Sometimes we've got personal challenges, you know, like, okay, we've been hurt, like, ah, like a bad experience in confession or whatever. Like, what are we supposed to do? Um, and this is right, this is both for us and for people we know, friends, family, coworkers who are scandalized. They've had this, this type of bad experience.
What are you supposed to do? When the leaders and authority figures we counted on let us down. 

[00:16:52] Mallory: Well, I think one thing is like you mentioned earlier, just not minimizing it, especially when we're talking to people and even in our own lives. Right, there's a, there's a reason that the whole world is so scandalized by the priest scandals and the pastor scandals and the, and the Protestant churches.
It is because they're held to a higher standard because of who they like are claiming to represent or who they're claiming to stand in person of and also to not be surprised at the same time because they are human. And they do fail and, and some of them are just not good. Like, and that's okay to say, like, some of them are just not good.
Like, we have all kinds of people in our church. For me, personally, like, I've been hurt by the church. Or that be overarchingly of the scandals, or I had a bad run in with somebody in leadership, or maybe just, I mean, I've just met people. I'm like, why don't you care more? Like, why don't you care more? Like, you could be doing a better job if you cared more or whatever it is.
I think it's important, like if you have a spiritual director, like you do need somebody to talk to about it, right? Whether that be, you know, if it's a major thing that might be, you know, somebody who is trained in that. spiritual direction, a friend that you trust. This is, and I think this is hard, but it's what our church teaches.
We have to get to a place of forgiveness. Yeah. Thank you. And that's to say what happened was bad. Maybe it was misunderstanding. Maybe you were actually dealing with somebody who is incompetent or does have bad intentions. But if we always define our church experience by what someone else did, we'll never be free to experience the grace of the church.
And so, whether that be through counsel or confession or whatever, we have to get to a place to say you owe me a debt and you can't pay it and I'm never going to be satisfied. So, I'm releasing you from it and I'm letting the just judge handle it, right, to be able to get to that place and then within the church continue.
And this is the biggest thing for me because I have a few family members who really struggle with just the hierarchy. And like what we could say about the hierarchy of the church and the whole time, you know, this person is talking, I'm like, but what about you going to Jesus? 

[00:19:04] Jim: Yes. Why would you let that person keep you from your best friend?

[00:19:09] Mallory: From Jesus. Absolutely. Like he's the one that transforms and like, there's no priest that can like, no matter what he does, he can't take away the beauty of the scriptures. He can't take away the silence of adoration. These personal gifts that the church has given us as paths to holiness. Like, if somebody's listening and you've been hurt by the church, I just want to say, I'm so sorry.
Jesus is also hurt by that. He is also in pain by that, and he wants to reach in, and he wants to offer you healing, but he doesn't want you to stop chasing him. And those things can be done without anyone's permission. 

[00:19:44] Jim: Thank you. I mean, I'm just thinking, you know, as you're talking. First thing you said is like, okay, don't dismiss it.
And I would say like, don't dismiss it in others, but don't dismiss it in yourself. When you're disappointed, frustrated. And again, there's a whole spectrum here. There's like, oh man, I'm disappointed. I wish father had taken more counsel before they decided, you know, to, to go with the purple curtains in the social hall.
Okay. Disappointment or wow. Like, like real abuse and real pain, whatever the spectrum is. If you can't acknowledge the hurt, big or small. You can't forgive and if you can't forgive you block yourself off from the grace being offered. Yeah. Thank you. That's really that's really good. You know, sometimes it seems like again in an effort to try and help or a misunderstanding of just not feeling others pain and kind of there.
We sometimes like, Dismiss or if people have a question like we we provide kind of superficial answers like how do we get to the place where we're actually talking about the real issues for people who don't seem to be getting their questions answered. 

[00:20:52] Mallory: Yeah, so this is actually in my book. This is one of my favorite chapters that I wrote.
And so just for if people are curious, I wrote about just having mediocre experiences at mass and you know how to go beyond that with the mass truly is. And then my second chapter was choosing more than blissful ignorance which that's like a personal issue of like, sometimes we just don't want to be holy.
And so, we just don't, we just don't want it. And then the third chapter was finding real answers to good questions. And this one was a really big one for me because, you know, growing up, going to religion class. You'd hear somebody say like, why does a good God allow bad things to happen to good people?
And then their teacher has no idea how to answer that. And it's not even her or his fault. They don't, they don't know they'd never been taught. It's a hard question. Right. And so, they'll give some sort of, um, pithy answer. And then it's like, we'll just have faith or it's a mystery. And then that student who asked in good faith, who actually wants to know says, well, then there must not be any good answers.
First of all, it is our responsibility to educate ourselves in the faith, you know, and especially with some of these big questions. We should be wrestling them with them too. Why do, why is there suffering? Like there are certain things, I was just listening to a, it's a fiction book about World War II, occupied France, and you're like, the whole world, like.
Suffered so dramatically for all those years, and I know that's not new, but it's still so scandalous. God, how could you let that happen? 

[00:22:23] Jim: Right, at some level, whether it's present day or history, if you're not scandalized, you're not paying attention. 

[00:22:30] Mallory: Right. 

[00:22:30] Jim: Because there's some crazy bad stuff. Right, so like, what is the answer for that, right?

[00:22:34] Mallory: And some of that is just wrestling with our faith, but some of that, the church has an answer. The church actually can get us Right. I like to say to a place intellectually where we're comfortable jumping in to just saying it's okay to have faith. Right. And so, whether that be through, um, you know, Pope John Paul, the second has beautiful writings on suffering and why and how suffering actually proves that there is a God and there is a heaven because the fact that I'm suffering means there's a good that I don't have.

[00:23:00] Jim: Yeah.

[00:23:01] Mallory: Right. There's something I'm longing for, and I don't have it. So, it's our obligation as Catholics to educate ourselves. Number one. Number two. If you don't know, that's the best answer. 

[00:23:11] Jim: Yeah, thank you. Please don't fake it. 

[00:23:12] Mallory: Like, you know what? I don't know. I haven't wrestled with that. I haven't thought about it very deeply.
Um, but if this is something you really want to know about, I will do the research with you. Or I will find somebody who knows. Because I guarantee you the church has been around for thousands of years and has the wisest people from within her ranks who have thought about this. And I guarantee you someone has written something on it.
Right. And like, we can find it together and we can grow together. And that that's what I think is the best answer you can give if you don't know. 

[00:23:45] Jim: Yeah, I love that. And I would only add not just intellectual writing and theology and philosophy, but it also shows up in our art, in our music. And I mean, this is a silly example.
But like what's coming back to me, I don't remember the name of it, but Matt Marr has a song where there's this kind of refrain, you know, like where it is like a soul or a person suffering, you're like, where were you talking to Jesus, where were you when and insert loneliness and loss and death and betrayal and, and the refrain is like, I was on the cross.
You know, it's this question that we ask Jesus, where were you when this Bad thing happened to me and he's like, I was on the cross, like You were wronged and my solution to all wrong is to give myself to write it and not that that's easy to understand but sometimes, you know, even more than just the philosophy and theology treasures we have, there's art and music treasures that help us wrap ourselves around these really deep questions.

[00:24:51] Mallory: Just to add to that because that's so beautiful and it's so true. Um, something happened in my extended family this summer, and it was like, just a trap. It was an utter tragedy. And I was like thinking, I'm like, I actually can't think of anything worse. Like I, I've tried. I couldn't think of like anything worse.
And it's just one of those things where there are no answers. Um, and I was sitting and like, Lord, how could you like, like, how could you do this? You know, like why? And really like, and just praying and sitting with it, what, what I received from the Lord in prayer was like, I know that sometimes you diminish my cross to think it came to save you from like a bad day, like it came to save you from like the Starbucks order that your barista got wrong, you know, to save you from like bad self-esteem he's like, but, but you need to know that the cross goes so deep that you can't see.
It went as deep as possible and you can't reach and so as even though you can't see the depth of this darkness, I'm at the bottom of it and that's where like almost like a reconversion to like the power of what he did on the cross. No, it doesn't take away the consequences now, but the fact that it's even redeemable is miraculous. 

[00:26:03] Jim: Yeah. You know, that's really helpful Mallory, because I think sometimes most of us who live in kind of a Western suburban, um, even often those that are the materially poorest among us are still better off than some of our peers around the world. And there's a commentator, I don't, I don't remember who, but kind of point out that like, you know, the American suburban understanding of justice and thirst for the Lord's justice It's just not as deep as some of our brothers and sisters who have seen their entire family massacred.
And we're like, yeah, I mean, I don't know, yeah, I believe in God's justice, but I'm not, like, super into it. And it's like, boy, you know, people who have experienced grave injustice They have to find, uh, consolation knowing that God is a God of justice, you know, and just that there is something like there's, there's this depth of human experience that sometimes we don't touch, but Jesus does.
And sometimes it catches us off guard when, when we do encounter those, the depths of grief or injustice or whatever, um, it's like, okay, Jesus is here. He's there. He's been there. Mallory, I want to give you a chance because I love, you talk about how you found fellowship and support in some really unexpected ways.
Because it can be lonely, you know, I've been I've been joking with some friends lately who who also they have missionary hearts, and they're committed to sharing their faith, but they haven't necessarily found a community that embodies The vibrancy of their own kind of faith journey and so like, you know, they evangelize someone they make friends.
They're like, hey, just want, you know, it's it's just us and Jesus right now, and they kind of feel a little bit alone. That's actually not true. Uh, you found the support that you needed, but it just was a little unexpected. Tell us about, you know, some, some of the friends that you found that helped you love the church, even when she didn't appear very glorious.

[00:28:10] Mallory: There's two sets. There's like the ones that are alive and the ones that are dead. Um, or I guess more alive than we are. Right. Yeah. God is so good because I do feel like he always brings people. If you ask him, he'll bring someone into your life. And so, You know, as I was really coming back into my Catholic faith, I happened to meet a, meet a friend who, um, had had experience in the Protestant church and was also a Catholic.
And so, he and I spoke a lot of the same language, but he was more steeped in Catholic theology than me. And so, he was able to really like teach me or like, here, read G. K. Chesterton, read this, read this, read Peter Kreeft. And then he was actually the one who led me to focus. Uh, and so he and I became bogus missionaries together.
Um, but then really just in my own research, learning about the saints, because growing up and I write about this in the book, it's actually a whole chapter on it, right? You see these statues of the saints and you're like, I don't want to be like them. Like they look miserable. Like, I don't want to just, like, sit with my hand, like, my eyes closed and my hands together.
Like, I want to, like, do something. I want to make a difference. And I do remember, like, this is something I, you know, I struggle with a lot of these things off and on still. And, um, I do remember sitting in a training when I became a focus missionary. And one of the sisters was talking about Mary, and, you know, I was thinking about the statue, like, all Mary statues are pretty boring.
And she said, you know, it's so amazing to look at a statue of Mary, because she's crushing the head of the serpent, and she isn't even breaking a sweat. Yeah. And I was like, that's my girl, like totally transformed how I thought of Mary, but the more that I started to read and stumble upon the lives of the saints.
And I mean, I saw, I could, I. There are people that know so much more than me. Um, but in particular, I guess they're a little more modern, but Archbishop Fulton Sheen reading his autobiography, like he's just become a friend, especially like, okay, he had a huge platform in the fifties. That is our modern time, even if it's not exactly our modern time.
And he was famous like, and how he dealt with that and how he dealt with people and how he was pretty fearless. and the way he evangelized people. Oh, yeah. But he also was very forthcoming about his own, um, faults. He was just very relatable, and I thought his preaching, in a lot of ways, I, when I would go watch the old, uh, Life is Worth Living, I would be like, where was this?
And then the other one who ended up being a surprise to me was Mother Teresa, because when I was young, right, she died in 1997. And so, she was alive for some of my life. And I was so bored by her. It was like the same thing. It was like looking like when she'd be on the news, I was like, Oh, there's Mother Teresa.
And I didn't know anything about her at all. Yeah. Learn about this woman who just. Like, she's like, what, four foot nine? She's from a country that most people can't point out on a map. And she's single handed, like, she's literally single handedly changed the world. Yeah. With A dark night of the soul, you know, and so you look at these people are like St.
Augustine who, you know, we all kind of love him cause he was like the greatest sinner who became the greatest saint. You look at these people who live before us and then you actually go and like visit their tomb, which is such a Catholic thing to do, or like have one of their teeth or, you know, but they live in a similar world.
Yeah, it was still corrupt. It was still sinful. They were born into original sin. They lived in a church with corruption, and they were somehow able to allow God to make them heroes. And I just get so much encouragement from their story because like, I really think like if they can do it, I can do it. And I think that's the attitude we should have.
And then the Lord has also given me, like I joined ministry. I became a focus missionary. Um, I ended up finding people who were really on fire like I was. And, um, it has been. The joy of my life to walk with them.

[00:32:12] Jim: I love the, I just, you're talking about the saints, like the, the airbrushed holy cards and the statues just aren't quite doing justice to like who they really were.
You know, and when you really start to like find out who they really were, it's like, Oh man, you're awesome. Sadly, not that she's a canonized saint, but I had a similar kind of experience with my, with my grandmother, uh, my maternal grandmother, I didn't really get to know very well when I was young. You know, when I would come over, I'd be like, I had to sit on the couch.
It was like, and only later did I start to recognize, you know, she loved bridge. Like a really intense strategic card game. She loved Notre Dame football and all of the and she was like very much like a social butterfly, you know, constantly hosting parties and stuff that I didn't quite get to see. And it was only later that I was like, my gosh, grandma was awesome.
Like, we're like the same, you know, but it was just, it was just a maturity thing and, and growing up and really learning who she was. And I feel like, yeah, the saints are the same way. It's like, oh, wow, there's like way more to you than this airbrushed, uh, holy card. I mean, we just kind of like dove into this right away, but I wanna, I wanna give you a chance to talk a little bit about, again, before we turn to Mike, like, like, who's this book for?
Because we, we were joking a little bit, like, it's always a weird thing to like, you know, write a book that's for people who won't buy it. 
Say more about that. 

[00:33:42] Mallory: Right. So, I wrote this book. Um, like I said earlier, just if I fall into my Catholic were to have the guts to say like, why are you doing this? You know?
And like, here's all my issues. And can you explain yourself? And so, the core audience for the book is somebody who has either come back to the faith or star left the faith and is nominal and is like struggling with Catholicism. And the purpose of the book is to take certain topics. I think there's, there's nine, six of them are external.
So that would be like someone else can do something to make this better, right? Some like the priest can make the mass better. The hierarchy can take better with the scandals. Um, the religion teachers can answer you better, right? And then three of them are internal because we're broken. And so, it's, yeah.
I just don't think Jesus is going to make me happy, right? Like I, I don't really believe in heroes. I don't think I'm a hero. And so, and it's meant to say, okay, this is what I experienced at like growing up in a broken Catholic church. This is what I learned. And this is why I stayed. So that's actually the breakdown of every chapter.
What I always tell people is it is an excellent shot in the arm for a faith. Like if you just want something that's going to encourage you, I did not write this book so that like you guys can like throw me a tea party because I came back to the church. I wrote it that my story would be of real service to those who read it.
And would really be an invitation to go deeper or to come back. And so, what I always say is like, buy one for yourself. Cause you will like it. It is very relatable. Um, and then either give it to a friend who it might be not slightly open to reading it and say like, Hey, you will relate to this. Like this very honest, it's pretty raw.
Um, and it's also very hope filled. Or, better even, buy a second copy and give it to someone in your life who you think would like it. Because, um, most of the time, that's what I have people do, they'll, they'll either, they'll buy one for them, they'll read it and give it away, or they'll buy two and one for them and they'll give one to someone else.

[00:35:39] Jim: You know, I don't want to assume this, I think sometimes there's maybe a temptation to say, You know, I just don't really care what non-Catholics think about the church. I don't really care what outsiders think about the church. In the best sense that, like, I want to be holy myself, and I just want to, I just care about what God thinks about the church.
Mallory, why should we care what outsiders think? 

[00:36:10] Mallory: Well, that's our call. I mean, that's, I think a mistake we've made in the church is that we've almost separated the idea of conversion from evangelization and our Lord never wanted those to be separate. Like, like he, he changed the lives of the disciples, and his last command was to go out to the world and make disciples like the last thing he said before he went to heaven.
And why is that? It is because my life and your life, and if you're listening and you know Jesus, your life is different. Like when I think of the salvation of the Lord, he literally saved me this life from what it could have been, and then my eternal life of what that could have been. And that is what people are longing for, whether they know it or not.
And that is why there is so much searching. That is why there's so many prescription drugs. That's why there's so much despair because people are searching in all the wrong places. Yes. You know, our evangelical brothers and sisters, they have the gospel, right? They have faith and that faith is powerful, and it does stuff.
We have Jesus Christ, body, blood, soul, and divinity. where he comes to become part of us and changes from the inside out. And why would we not want to share that with somebody? Right. And, and what Jesus did, right, he came from being the center of the universe and he entered into the human experience so that we can understand him.
And that we could accept him. And it's the same thing for us. Like God actually calls us to go into the world and to meet people where they are not compromise their own beliefs, but, but reach the handout and bring them in, in a way that they can understand and accept it. 

[00:37:53] Jim: Yeah. Spoken as a, as a true missionary.
Like, you know, we were a little like, I'm going to pull back the curtain here for our listeners. Like I always pray. With the guests before we, we turn on the mics and start recording. And sometimes, not all, all the time, sometimes the Lord gives us a word. Uh, you know, like a little peek. It's like, this is what I want you to share.
And I feel like when, when Mallory, you and I were praying, we talked a little bit about this. Jesus loves Outsiders. Jesus loves those who are wrecking their lives, who are mocking the church, like he loves them. He died for them. And as sometimes I'm like, Lord, is this really a good plan? But like his plan to bring them back to himself is us, right?
He loves them and he wants to love them through us. And that's why we care what they think. I want to give you a chance to kind of like give, give some kind of closing advice for those who want to get better at engaging those on the outside. Where do they, where do they start? 

[00:39:06] Mallory: Well, you always start with your own personal prayer life and making Jesus the center of your life.
Because as the saying goes, you can't give what you don't have. And then the other part of it, it's, I really believe it comes to being intentional, right? So if there's someone in your life where the Lord is just giving you a vision of who they could be with him in their life, pray over them intentionally, like write them down, take them to the chapel, take them to your prayer spot and start praying with them and their name and asking God to move because.
The beauty of evangelization or the beauty of just sharing your faith is that it's the work of the Holy Spirit, right? And so, our call is really to step through open doors and give yeses where he's asking us to. He doesn't place the burden on our shoulders of saving the world. He did that. So, if you're praying over them, then start to look for where the Lord is actually opening a door.
And then actually it's funny. I like did a webinar on this last night. Um, and when that door opens. I'm in with your story. Like if somebody's like, you know, I just don't like the church or I have this question, or I have this question, a great segue, can I just tell you like how I see the world from my point of view?
And now you have a pathway to share the gospel story. Right? These are things you obviously have to learn and like give time to, or the easiest easiest is an invitation. Hey, do you want to learn more? Come to my small group. Come to my, like, I'd love for you to come to this thing with me at the church. And people might tell, you know, but most of the time I can't think of any time someone's been offended by my invitation.
Those are really easy ways to have a normal, natural conversation. And then as far as what I find works in my own life is prayer scripture and just like building up my own faith in the body of Christ, whether that be through podcasts or books or just good conversations with friends. Um, but don't let yourself stay stagnant.

[00:41:06] Jim: I love that. You're like, when the doors open, step through with your story. Everybody's always like, Oh, I don't know if I know enough to share my faith. It's like, well, you know your story. And if you don't know, if you can't say God has done for you, well, start there. Right. Right. That's like the one thing that nobody can argue with.
It's like. I feel like God has shown me the way and he loves me. Nobody's like, uh-uh. 

[00:41:32] Mallory: Right, right, right. And they might say like, that's great for you. And then, you know, and like, there are going to be times where maybe you feel like you should open your mouth and like, you're not going to have the opportunity that's going to be very clear that, that the Lord doesn't want you to.
Um, and I, and I do want to add, cause I think this actually might be very helpful for your listeners, Jim. I heard this years ago and it really stuck with me. It was cues for invitation and I thought it was really good. And it was basic. It was a pastor, Andy Stanley. So, he's a non-denominational pastor. And he's I'm at the three knots and so it's things are not going well.
I was not expecting that I'm not from here. And so, if you're in conversation with people. And they're like, hey, like this thing is not going well, then you can take that as an open invitation to say like, hey, you know what, like, you know, I'm going to mass, like, it might just give you some peace, you don't even have to pray, you could just sit in the back with me, it might, it might give you some quiet, or I wasn't expecting that, you know, that's another invitation, or I'm not from here, hey.
Do you want to come to my church with me? Do you want to come with my small group? Um, and obviously do it in a way that's not like over excited, but like, those are good cues to say like, Oh, this is an, this is an entrance. This is an open door. They're, they're experiencing something that might make them more open to a change.

[00:42:52] Jim: Wow. I love that. It's the, okay. So, in reverse order, I'm not from here is an invitation to invite them to belong some way. Uh, I wasn't expecting that. It's like, okay, right. Well, let's come and find comfort in the one who, who knows what's coming. And, and this is not going well. It's like, oh, I know someone who might be able to help come with me to, to be with him.
Uh, Mallory, that's awesome. So, you do, you know, in addition to writing and mothering and everything else, I know you do like public speaking, um, for people who want to find out more about you or the book. How do they connect with you? 

[00:43:30] Mallory: The easiest way to get to me is if you want to direct message me on Instagram at Mallory A. Smythe, um, S M Y T H on Instagram. My book is called Rekindled. You can get it at AveMariaPress.com or on Amazon, or if you're messaging me on Instagram, I can send you a signed copy. And if you want to get ahold of me for speaking, uh, you can go to my website, which is www. Mallory Smythe. com or walkingwithpurpose.com 

[00:44:00] Jim: Okay, so Mallory A. Smythe at Instagram, Smythe is S M Y T H or mallory-smythe.com or walkingwithpurpose. 

[00:44:13] Mallory: Walkingwithpurpose.com I'm there too. 

[00:44:15] Jim: Boom. Mallory, thank you. Thank you for spending time with us. 

[00:44:18] Mallory: Hey, this was so much fun. Thanks for having me, Jim. 

[00:44:21] Jim: You're welcome. All right, everybody, you know, somebody who needs to hear this, maybe you have a friend who is Cajun or likes Cajun food or something.
And they're just like, they just like they need to hear from Mallory. Or maybe you're going to check out Rekindled, the book, How Jesus Called Me Back to the Catholic Church and Set My Heart Afire by Mallory Smythe. Anyway, be safe about this. Don't try and share this out while you're driving or like walking the dog.
But when you get to your destination, uh, share this out with a friend. Thanks everybody. Thanks for listening to the EquipCast. We hope this episode has inspired you to live your faith and equip you to be fruitful in your mission. Stay connected with us by going to Equip.ArchOmaha.org. God bless, and see you next time.