[00:00:00] Jim Jansen: Hey, everybody. Welcome to the EquipCast. So, today I sit down with Beth Carlson and Katie Winkler. They are staff at the John Paul II Newman Center. Here in Omaha, and we talk about relational outreach, a great conversation. Uh, they talk about how they design events so that the missionary disciples in their parish can connect with people.

Develop a friendship and help those people find their next step. Uh, we talk about going way beyond events and hospitality when people come to us and going to actually get people reaching out to people. Um, they talk about their, their formation, the preparation, and really drawing people back to the heart of Jesus, asking him for his love for his people.

And how really, they've created a beautiful culture of outreach at their parish. You're going to love today's conversation on relational outreach. Take a listen. 

Everybody, welcome to the equip cast a weekly podcast for the archdiocese of Omaha. I'm your host, Jim Jansen. Now let's dive into some encouragement and inspiration to equip you to live your faith and to be fruitful in your mission. Let's go. 

Welcome to the EquipCast. How are you doing ladies? 

[00:01:18] Katie: Doing great. 

[00:01:19] Beth: Yeah. Doing very well. Thank you. 

[00:01:20] Jim Jansen: Okay. So, I feel like we should make a disclaimer. Like, we're all actually pretty good friends and you guys are kind of like besties. So, we could come unhinged in our conversation really easily. We won't. It's just going to be fun and it's going to be really fruitful.

I'm really glad you guys are here. We're going to talk about relational outreach. I want to make sure for those who are listening, this episode is part of a special series on the steps of a clear path. That is relational outreach, conversion moments, faith formation, and evangelization formation. And today we're going to zero in on relational outreach.

A clear path is just a parish framework designed to help people take their next steps as disciples of Jesus. It's basically a plan for making and maturing disciples. Parishes that have a clear path, well, they, they know how they connect with people and how they foster conversion, how they help people grow as disciples, and how they equip people as missionary disciples.

The concept's real simple but building it, uh, the individual steps, that doesn't happen overnight. And so today, Katie, Beth, uh, you guys are from the John Paul II Newman Center here in Omaha. We're going to talk a little bit about your experience, uh, with relational outreach for the parish. So, let's set the context here.

A unique parish, right? Like Newman centers. It's a personal parish. Tell us a little bit about John Paul the second. 

[00:02:42] Katie: Yeah. So we are, um, a parish for college students were the two fun facts. I like to say are that we're the only church in Omaha that was made for college students specifically. And the other was that that were the only parish in the archdiocese that the whole Parish base turns over in like four to five years. So, it's just two, two unique, uh, aspects of our parish. 

[00:03:04] Jim Jansen: All of our parishioners left. 

[00:03:05] Beth: The all leave. 

[00:03:06] Jim Jansen: Which is kind of the way it's supposed to go. 

[00:03:07] Katie: It's good that they do. Yeah. We, we miss them, but. 

[00:03:09] Jim Jansen: You could have a victory lap, but after five years you're like, you need to go now. 

[00:03:12] Katie: That's right. Yeah. And they enter all the other parishes that we have. So, our Newman center was built, uh, nine years ago.

We're in our ninth year. We've had a long history of campus ministry, but our Newman Center facility is nine years old at this point. 

[00:03:25] Jim Jansen: So, tell us, you serve all of the college campuses within the metro area here, Creighton, UNO, College of St. Mary's. Give us like quick thumbnail sketch, like what, what are your, what are your people like?

What are your parishioners like? 

[00:03:37] Beth: Well, our parishioners, like you said, Jim, are college students. We kind of have found that this, there's this sweet spot of like 18 to about 24 years old is really kind of the people that we generally are seeking out for parish activities and all the things that we do.

And the, the really unique part is, so Newman centers are all over the United States. They're on lots of college campuses, but ours, and they're specifically like they're communities for college students. But ours is unique because we also have an added component of housing. So, we can also house, we have 162 beds for men and women who are in college.

Yes, it's just added bonus of like having some people very close to us that can potentially walk right downstairs and enter into the life of our parish as well, uh, without even leaving the building. 

[00:04:30] Jim Jansen: That's a really good transition because we were talking a little bit before the, before the mic comes on.

You would think 162 kids living upstairs. If they could see through walls, they could like, you know, they were just like, they're 200 feet from the chapel. That is not an automatic trip. And you actually have, you have to figure out how to do outreach. I'm excited for you all to talk about this because before writing the book on the clear path, I mean, you guys were already doing this before it was a term before it was like a thing or like, you know, before relational outreach was even a thing you were reaching out because college students just don't come automatically.

You actually have to go get them. What do you do for relational outreach? Like, how do you go get them? 

[00:05:15] Katie: Yeah. So just to go back there, our community is vast. There's students from any walk of life as far as their faith life goes. So, there's some that are, are very eager and they're, they are knocking down the doors.

They're the first to apply to live here. They're the first to sign up for the retreat. So of course we have those. And then there's also the, the kind of wider mission field, which is every campus in Omaha. And so that's, that's huge. Right. And so That's where I think our outreach really comes into play. Um, the people that aren't darkening our doors.

So, one of the big things that we do at the beginning of the year, we have our outreach phase. And so that includes our welcome week. So, at the beginning of the year, there's a lot of on campus activities. And so, we host our own. So, we have kind of a week and a half actually. So, we do part of it is it starts when our dorm opens.

So, when the students move in and then we have welcome week events throughout the week, we do some that are on our campus and some that are on UNO's campus. So, one of those events would be like our big Drango Days barbecue. So, we fire all over campus, we make invitations, and we get about 400 or so students from campus and that's a, an event we do together.

[00:06:24] Jim Jansen: 400 come to the facility for the barbecue. 

[00:06:27] Katie: Yep. 

[00:06:28] Jim Jansen: That's a, that's a lot. It's a lot of students. 

[00:06:30] Katie: Yeah. It's a lot of hamburgers. The Knights of Columbus at Christ the King make the hamburgers for us. Shout out to them. Which is great. It is a hot, hot day to be cooking. It's August. 400 burgers. It's August. Last year it was 114 degrees.

And so, all year I prayed that it would be a cool 90. And it was exactly 90. And so, then I decided next year I'm going to pray for 75 because... 

[00:06:53] Jim Jansen: Yeah. 

[00:06:53] Katie: God answers prayers and it was still a little too warm. 

[00:06:56] Beth: So, I think the other thing about the events, especially we have this bonus of we're by proximity very close to UNO's campus, their south campus, we're located on 72nd and Pacific.

So, we're very, very close to their south campus. But our, our events that we're trying to do, like for this welcome week. So, we, we work with UNO, and they lump our barbecue into their Durango days, which is a really helpful thing. So, we partner with them. Um, but what we're trying to do is for our events, like the purpose is to meet people and to form relationships, like for connecting people.

So, we've kind of started making some shifts. Like we need volunteers to help us do this, but we've asked the Christ, the King Knights of Columbus to cook burgers for us, to free up our leaders, to be in the only place they can be, which is with the other college students, because they're peers, like they don't, a college student doesn't always want to talk to me.

I'm, I'm a middle-aged woman, right? I'm fun and I'm exciting. Like. Sure, they'll talk to me. Way above average. Thank you. I appreciate that, Jim. That was the right answer. But like, I'm not the one necessarily who is going to continue to build their relationship. I can connect them to other leaders. who happen to be in their age group, but we want them to be in the forefront.

So as staff of the Newman Center, we're wrapping the burgers, we're helping the Knights of Columbus, we're putting out more ketchup. So, all of our students can be like mingling and mixing and, and meeting the people that we want to meet. So, they, so they see a friendly face. 

[00:08:34] Jim Jansen: Yeah. So, like, I mean, if a student's like, Oh, I could flip burgers.

You're like, no, you're going to go make friends. Yeah. Your job is to make friends. We'll flip the burgers because relational outreach involves relationships, friendships. We need you to, to not just be nice and provide good food, but we want you to start a friendship there. 

[00:08:54] Katie: Yeah. I think you've said this before, Jim, but that it's not even just always about the event.

So, the event allows for a space to meet people and a space to start forming relationships. But it's really, it's the people that are the relational outreach, if you want to say it that way. 

[00:09:09] Jim Jansen: Yeah. The event is just like a context. It's like, Hey, let's gather people together. So, our missionaries can go fishing and make friends.

[00:09:17] Katie: Yep. Yeah. And so that we see that happening and that's the desires. It's not just this one-time large barbecue, even though it brings a huge group of people, because who doesn't want a burger and who doesn't want free dessert from a dessert truck, you know? And so, it's a great way to attract people. But this happens all year long in classes on the sports team, at work with the people they work with.

So that's all the work of outreach. 

[00:09:38] Jim Jansen: So, I'm going to talk a little bit because often, I mean, events are just like a great way to get started. Barbecues, you know, maybe it's like a sports league or something, you know, something that you're, that you're hosting that brings people in, uh, typical parishes. I know some parishes that moved away from the festival to tailgates because it's like, Oh, it's great.

You can actually have conversation, and you can develop a friendship at a tailgate in a way that it's really hard to do with the ring toss and, and right. It's the parishes. They had almost the exact same kind of, you know, flipping burger epiphany that you did. It's like, this is dumb. All of our most loyal people are disciples who actually love our parish, know our parish. We make them stand behind the ring toss and we, we trap them there and they actually can't make friends with the people from the community who happened to show up that day.

Yep. So, it's probably worth just like taking a moment. So, get ready. I'm going to ask you a hard question here, but it's probably worth taking a moment just to kind of like define like, you know, relational outreach. It's just a ministry that creates a context to build trusting relationships. Often with people who are disengaged, they're nonbelievers, it tends to meet people, I love how you said this Beth, from a very broad spectrum.

So, some of them are like, Oh my gosh, I'm so excited. I get to live close to the chapel because you're throwing a really wide net out there and others are like, Jesus, who, you know, I mean, it's just like, it's all across the map. Some might be suspicious or hostile. Take us like a little bit deeper. How do you prepare those students who aren't flipping burgers to, like, do their thing at these events?

[00:11:23] Katie: We do a number of different things. So, before the school year launches, we have a leader training. So, this year we did a day of retreat for our leaders, and then we did a discipleship kickoff. And so, we talk about both sort of how does the Lord pursue you and what is that experience like? And that's, that stirs up kind of naturally the, the desire to reach others.

[00:11:44] Jim Jansen: Say more about that. How does the Lord pursue you? 

[00:11:46] Katie: Yeah. So, I've just noticed. That the more that I notice the gentleness and the invitation that Jesus offers that he's not pushy, he's not impatient. He notices my pace. I think that's really important. And so, I, when I noticed that and how he draws me, I can see, I can see my outreach or my invitations in the same light.

So, to be gentle, to be patient, to be eager, full of desire, um, but to notice the person in front of me and to watch their cues. Yeah. Just gentleness. I think. 

[00:12:23] Jim Jansen: Gosh, you know, as I talk about that, I think about, I mean, you know, one of the biblical stories, this, the, when Jesus meets the disciples on the road to Emmaus and he quite literally matches their pace.

I mean, he's probably running or like, you know, to catch up with him, but then he's like slows down and he walks with them, and he enters into their conversation, and he walks at their pace, and he leads them someplace, ironically, by looking like he's following them. And you're saying you, you teach the students how to do that.

So, they don't get overzealous in conversation, you know, like, hi, my name is Jim. Do you want to join a Bible study? 

[00:12:59] Katie: Right. Right. I think it's, so it's twofold. So, it's like, how does the Lord pursue me continuously? Cause he keeps pursuing me. And also like, if there was a time where we were brought back to faith or brought to faith the first time.

Like, what did that look like for me? So, it's just a really good exercise for any of us to do at any point. Um, but especially when engaging in outreach, I think like, what did that look like for you? What was helpful and what, what was the attitude of the person pursuing you? When I was in college, there were focused missionaries on my college campus, and I was raised Catholic, great Catholic family, and I went to college, and I was like, I've done that, you know, I was part of the youth group, and I just, I want to try something new, and so I wasn't super engaged, but I would go to, we called it Wednesday Lunch Bunch, so it was the missionaries, they'd take a group of students onto campus, and We would share a meal together.

And then this missionary Kim would walk me back to my dorm. She'd invite me into her Bible study, you know, like, do you want to get together later? Do you want to come to my Bible study? And I was like, no, thanks. She's like, all right, see you next week. 

Say bye Kim. See you next week. And we do it over and over for, for months.

And what I learned from her was just this patient, persistent, like she is after something that's more than just like what I can offer her or what I can do. Or she's just like, there's something different about this. So, it's, it's that kind of thing, I think, reflecting on like what those people, who those people were for us and, and what that looked like and could we be that for someone else?

[00:14:26] Jim Jansen: Yeah. I mean, this is not complicated, but it's deep stuff. Right. It's like, you know, how did Jesus come and get you? And in that place of gratitude and memory. You're like, Oh, I could do that for someone else. 

[00:14:39] Katie: Right. It's sharing an entree of orange chicken. 

[00:14:43] Jim Jansen: I feel like there's a story there. 

[00:14:46] Katie: That was the Panda Express we would eat.

[00:14:48] Jim Jansen: Oh, there we go. 

[00:14:48] Katie: At the Wednesday lunch. 

[00:14:49] Jim Jansen: The orange, orange chicken. 

[00:14:50] Katie: I think how orange chicken changed my life. 

[00:14:52] Jim Jansen: Was it Kim Braddica? 

[00:14:54] Katie: Yeah. 

[00:14:55] Jim Jansen: Oh, that's so fun. 

[00:14:55] Katie: I think about her all the time. 

[00:14:56] Jim Jansen: Yeah. That's awesome. Shout out for Kim. 

[00:14:58] Beth: I also just want to say, like, I know we're talking about in our outreach, like we have focused missionaries on our campus as well.

So, this is fellowship of Catholic university students, their missionaries who are assigned to our campus to help with all of these things and to do small groups and lead Bible studies and things like that and help our students do that. And we're talking about this big push at the beginning of our year of relational outreach where we do all these events.

Um, we do a mixture of on our campus, like on our physical site, but then also we try to go off campus. And I don't want to underscore the amount of work that our focus missionaries and our, our leaders do to go on campus the first week of school and hand out flyers for our big barbecue or invite people to our place, but also invite them to off campus things like not on our property.

Yeah. Um, we do hiking and we do a cornhole tournament, like. In Elmwood Park, because some people don't want to come to our facility. 

[00:15:52] Jim Jansen: Right? It's scary. I mean, for people at the start of the journey, maybe they've got some hangups, bad experiences. It's a scary, I mean, as cool and as fun as the Newman center is any church facility is like, no, thanks.

[00:16:03] Katie: Right. Yeah. Sometimes we have to go to the neutral ground. 

[00:16:06] Jim Jansen: Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of like, whether it's Frisbee, spike ball or whatever. Like, there's a lot of like, I can't, you know, uh, I was a missionary once and I played, I played spike ball in, you know, in, in the quad. Cause you could just start conversations and make connect, make connections there.

[00:16:23] Beth: And as the one introvert in this room at the moment, I do also want to say that... 

[00:16:27] Jim Jansen: Although you fake it well.

[00:16:28] Beth: Listen, I'm an outgoing introvert. So, when I get into a group with my friends or people. I can rise to the occasion, but getting there is hard for me. 

So, in this relational outreach, when I, when we're saying like, we're, we're trying to get our leaders in front of people, there is a recognition that sometimes it's just really hard to walk up to somebody and introduce yourself.

Cause like we get, we want to talk to our friends or we… We're comfortable on the JP II Newman parish campus. And so sometimes it's a little bit of a harder sell to be like, Hey, go to class and talk to somebody like I sure as heck didn't do that in college. I went to class most of the time and then a lot of, most of the time.

And then I left, you know, I just, I wasn't necessarily there to talk to the people that I saw. Three times a week. And now a lot of our students are also, um, doing online classes. 

So, there's just this weird mix of like it. Sometimes it's just so hard to introduce yourself to somebody because you're like, then I got to think of a next question or something else to say after I'm like, Hi, my name's Beth.

What's your name? Sometimes I even forget that part. I just say my name, right? So, it's… 

[00:17:44] Jim Jansen: I've got to get you a script. 

[00:17:46] Beth: And then it would be like, hello, my name is Beth. It'd be, yeah, it'd be so creepy and weird. So, it's, it's just, we have all of these things with the caveat, especially as we're like trying to.

Point our leaders back to the Lord and his pursuit of us. Like it's so varied and we need everybody's experience of that. Cause like only I can reach the people that I can reach, and Katie can only reach the people she can reach. But like we need everybody to be intentional about this. Like that's, that's the main thing is like, are, are we being intentional about just meeting people?

[00:18:23] Jim Jansen: Yeah. I mean, thank you for saying that. Cause I think there is sometimes like a Uh, more than sometimes there's a stereotype that's like, Oh, okay, you can only do this if you're an extrovert. And I am extrovert. Well, you know, on a scale of 10, I'm probably an 11. I'm definitely extroverted, but my lovely, introverted wife is probably better at this than I am because she stays in her.

She stays in her sweet spot. She's like, I find the one person at the big event, and I have a conversation with them, and she leaves with a friend, and I leave with 10 acquaintances and then I'm like, Oh, now I know I have to actually like be a friend. She develops a real, real friendships, and she lets the Lord leader to people often in times of need, and she's just helpful.

And then that creates a bond. And she's not even I mean, she is trying. She is being intentional, but it's just she's doing it as her. So, it's very, very natural. 

[00:19:17] Katie: Yeah, I was just, I was just thinking that, that on occasion, if I'm feeling shy or timid, um, it's really easy to find the other person in the room.

That's also feeling that way. And then we can be in that together. Just, you know, like, is this, is this event too much? Are you, you feeling tired? You know, just, there's ways to engage like from a shared experience of even like not being the loudest, craziest person in the room. Like, and then that person isn't alone anymore.

You know, like you're with them in it. Just like, yeah. It's just a way to encounter someone else exactly as you are and exactly as they are. 

[00:19:47] Jim Jansen: So, I love, I mean, we could go a thousand different ways here, but I think it's maybe it could be helpful for a moment to kind of talk about how do you create a context?

So, I mean, there's, there's two things. You are forming people to be intentional in their life, in the classes, the friendships they have, you know, to, to be able to. Enter into conversations. First, I love this by like, how did Jesus find you and kind of tapping into that gratitude and their own experience, but then when you do create moments for people where they can connect, what are like, I don't know, what are some of the characteristics or ingredients so that these moments are helpful?

Because I, because I mean, I think we've all been to something that's supposed to be social. That's supposed to be a place where you can meet people and connect. Yeah. And there's just some things that are in the way, and you don't end up actually connecting. Yeah, I don't want to give the negative examples, but I just feel like we've all experienced that.

Like, that was a party, but I didn't actually, I couldn't hear, I couldn't talk to people. Like, what are some of those things that make those contexts actually work? 

[00:20:55] Katie: Yeah, I think the environment matters. So, like, what does it feel like to be in the space? Is it comfortable? Is there seating for people? I mean, that's really kind of sure.

[00:21:05] Jim Jansen: Yeah. 

[00:21:05] Katie: Maybe basic. Yeah. Is the lighting, is it like bright overhead lighting or is there a way to kind of dim it a little bit? Is there, yeah, is there music, but not maybe too loud. Yeah. In our context, like we have community night once a week and it's meant to be for those that are super involved in the community and also a place to invite people to.

So, it's sometimes just social, like we'll have a taco bar. Sometimes we'll have a game or capture the flag or something. And so, we intentionally do a little bit of a mix. So, some people, their comfort level is like, I don't really want to have a conversation. I'd rather just be on someone's team and be near someone.

And But on the other end, like, it is good to have environments that are conducive to conversation. So, it's just a little bit of a mix, I think. 

[00:21:46] Jim Jansen: You know, it's fun. I mean, I've, I've been to your facility, not all the listeners, I mean, your facility was literally designed for this, right? So, you've got a beautiful outdoor courtyard, so there's, you know, cornhole and, you know, just.

Like games where people can just kind of chill and like, if all you feel comfortable with right now is holding the bags and tossing them, that's okay. Right. You get to, but then there's like fire pit, there's like tables and booths for conversation. There's an indoor fireplace games. There's like all these little nooks and places where people can have conversation when they can connect.

And at various levels. It's very cool. I mean, again, not every, not every place has that luxury to be able to design their facility with this relationship building in mind, but you all certainly nailed it and use it to great advantage. 

[00:22:37] Beth: Thank you for saying our building is so beautiful. We are biased and think that's true, but recently we just got a whole bunch of yard signs.

Directional yard signs to help people find the oratory door. Cause it is, it blends into the building. It's very hard to see if you've never been to our building and we want more permanent structures and we're working on that, but we knew for our outreach phase. We have to have something better. And I credit Father Dan Andrews for this.

He, he was like, he was after this. He's like, people don't, they don't know where to come in. 

[00:23:11] Jim Jansen: Like literally where's the door to the chapel. You call it an oratory, but like the church part. 

[00:23:16] Beth: Yes. Because the door looks exactly the same as the facade of the building and it's gigantic. And it's like… It's beautiful and kind of ridiculous and fun to walk through, but it's hard to find.

And sometimes our doors are locked at weird hours because we do also have this resident aspect of things. So, we just like parishes, right? We do lock our doors sometimes and it's inconvenient for people to come in. So, kind of having this opportunity to be like, we need better signage. even though, you know, if people can find our barbecue, it's not super hard, but it's, it can be a little difficult.

Like, then they can enter into this wonderful space that we have, but like, just even those small things, those details are just, are really important too. 

[00:23:57] Katie: Yeah. Going off of that, I was just thinking, when it's so our weekly community nights, we'll ask like, let's remember what is, what is it like to be new?

And so, what are the kinds of things that someone who's new, brand new to a place, brand new to a community, to a church, what are the kinds of things that they're going to be concerned with? Like, am I going to know anybody? Am I going to be able to find where I need to go? Am I going to fit in? Do I know what to do?

Um, maybe do I have something to hold like a drink or a snack? And so, to play through those lists of things as someone who's more ingrained in the community, more a part of it, but to think from the perspective of someone who's never been there before. So, like the signage, you know, um, we all know where the front door is.

Um, but when it comes to an invitation and someone's coming for the first time, is it clear to them? 

[00:24:39] Jim Jansen: Yeah. And you have these conversations with your, in this case, students, but with your missionary disciples. I mean, you're helping them to be missionary by reminding them Hey, remember what it was like the first time you couldn't find the door?

Or the first time you're, you're new here, you know? 

[00:24:54] Katie: Yep. Yeah. And the kinds of events you, you know, like to, um, be aware of like inside jokes or those kinds of things or inside lingo to be, to be really welcoming. Oh gosh, that's huge. 

[00:25:06] Jim Jansen: Especially for us as Catholics. Like we have like a lot of inside lingo. I mean, you think about someone, if they're not practicing or if they're non-Catholic, they have no idea what we're saying and why we're sitting and standing or all of the, you know, all of the things.

[00:25:20] Beth: Well, and also how we, how we gently bring people into that, like our common space. Is Carl's Commons. This is after J. P. Toon Newman. That's his, his given name, his birth name, but it's spelled like Carol. So, so many people would see the sign. It's very clearly labeled and be like, Carol's Commons. Who is she?

Right. Does somebody say it's Carl? You know, it's like, it's the way, how do we like help them enter into our culture? Cause like, it's a little weird, right? Like, why would that be Carl? it's Polish. 

[00:25:49] Katie: It's Polish. You're right. But more often than not kind of in conversation, we'll just call it the Commons. Yeah.

Cause we kind of, it's just, we're homies. Me and you kind of recognize that, like... 

[00:25:57] Jim Jansen: Yeah, but there's an intentionality to accommodate those who don't know yet. 

[00:26:03] Beth: Right? 

[00:26:04] Jim Jansen: Which is just hospitality. It's just kind. 

[00:26:06] Beth: Well, right. And on our flyers, if we're handing out a barbecue flyer to someone and we say the commons like, well, does it have our address on it?

Does it? Does it very clearly like people just don't know our lingo, right? We shorten it to the commons. But that's not the only way it's labeled. So just to be attentive to some of those details is also a really a good thing to do. 

[00:26:26] Jim Jansen: Katie, you told some of your story about like how Jesus, you know, through Kim came and found you.

Can you share some stories of like some of these students as like that they, wow, like it worked. They showed up at the barbecue and one hamburger led to another hamburger led to now he's a priest. No, I bet like just like stories of like people. Finding the connection either at one of these events or a student who is prepared to see their classmates in a new way.

Tell some stories. 

[00:26:57] Katie: Yeah, there was a, there was a student actually who was baptized last year who, um, got connected with the Newman Center because the focus missionaries were playing, I can't remember which game was spike ball on campus. So, for years he would see them for like two years and he'd play. And that was kind of it.

And eventually I joined a Bible study and joined OCA and was baptized. And it's those things that like day after day and week after week, returning to campus to play spike ball to some could seem like a waste of time, but it's the consistent presence and the consistent conversation and just being with him and him with them that they started forming relationships.

And he was invited to something more. He was invited to a small group Bible study and then eventually to consider becoming Catholic. 

[00:27:50] Jim Jansen: I love that story for so many reasons. I mean, one is like, it is really purely outreach, right? So, I mean, God bless events and hospitality, and we need that, but there is something about relational outreach.

It isn't just being nice to people when they come to us. It is a going to them and like, you know, going out onto campus, making friends, you know, building those relationships. But then, I mean, the whole point of a clear path is that There is something next. Once we have a relationship, I have something I can invite them to, a step that actually fits their faith journey. You know, in this case, you know, a small group Bible studies, sometimes, you know, it's a conversion moment, something like alpha, maybe a retreat mission trip, but there is a next step that you can invite someone to that helps them go deeper. 

[00:28:42] Beth: Yeah, another story is, actually, this is Katie's story, so I'm totally gonna steal it from you.Sorry. 

[00:28:47] Jim Jansen: Ooh, go for it. You tell it better anyway. 

[00:28:50] Beth: That's right. 

[00:28:50] Katie: We'll see about that. 

[00:28:51] Beth: I probably do. She's just saying recently, reflecting on how a year ago, one of our, our new students, she was chatting with her in an event and just like didn't have a place yet. It was pretty uncomfortable. It was loud. She's more of an introvert, right?

Yeah. Kind of, kind of like me. I maybe should have been talking to her, but that's okay. Katie was. Yeah. Then over time, as she kept entering in, uh, as she was able in our community, we saw her again this year during our outreach phase. And she had invited a friend to come and was like laughing. And these two friends, like we had, like, she was sitting with her friend, with myself and Katie, and we just had.

The most amazing conversation. It was fun. It was lighthearted. Uh, it was enjoyable and just like a completely different person because she, she had entered in and, and found a space for herself and could be more fully who she is, who we know she is now from a year ago when she was brand new and didn't really know people, even though she knew some people at the Newman center, but didn't necessarily.

Yet feel comfortable. So, it's just, it's really great to see. And it's slow, you know, that took a year for this to come to the point where she's also inviting other people. 

[00:30:06] Jim Jansen: And it takes a lot of courage. I mean, it always took a lot of courage to be the new person, you know, show up at camp or whatever. But as kind of our relational muscles have atrophied, I mean, you think about especially this generation where human contact, You know, has been, you, you can mediate all of your life through, uh, electronic means you don't have to actually connect with people face to face.

And so, for those rare times that you do, it's a little harder because you're not used to it. And all the more reason for us to, like, uh, love them and come to them and recognize that like, Oh, they're probably feeling uncomfortable right now because there's real people here. And it's been a while. 

[00:30:47] Katie: Yeah.With your question of like, what is, what does a good maybe event look like? I know we just talked about things that aren't necessarily events too, but I was just thinking of like being prepared, like having a really good event. So, Netflix, YouTube, Instagram, you name it, those are really enticing. And so, to them, relationship is never a competition. It's always going to be better, but sometimes we have to, we have to show that. So even with our events, like, is this going to be a good event? That's I think what our colleges are wondering, is this going to be cool? Am I going to like. Is this nerdy? It's out of church.

[00:31:21] Jim Jansen: Well, and it has to be, I mean, at two levels, it has to be better than Netflix in the moment, but also for the students in your case, or just for the parishioners who have to make the invitation, they're like, I am not going to spend my relational capital to invite my friend to an event that's lame.

That's totally gonna, like, kill the friendship. So, you have to really work and develop some credibility with the insiders to say, okay, I trust you now. The last two have been fun and cool. And welcoming. And so, I can probably invite my friends now, but it takes a little while for you to develop the credibility.

[00:32:06] Beth: Yep. Absolutely. Well, and I think also big event after big event after big event is not sustainable. Like we do this relational outreach push and it's like two and a half, not two and a half. It's like a week and a half and it's, it's exhausting. 

[00:32:21] Jim Jansen: It's an intense season for you all as students are coming. 

[00:32:25] Beth: And it's, it's fine to have those seasons, but then.

What, what we've done is kind of set up our, the cycle of our, our, our year to then reinforce with other events, but not kill ourselves in the process of doing it because we also do have, we have small groups, and we have Bible studies. And after we have this big event, like this big barbecue that we have, plus all these other little events in a week's time that all of our students are participating in and we're supporting in the background, we ask our students.

To call there, these people that we've met and ask them out, ask them out. Let's not have that in there. Taylor, you can cut it out.

Cause we want good marriages as well. No, no, no. Okay. We ask our students. to call the people they've met and invite them to a personal conversation. If that's coffee, if that's a smoothie, if that's going to basketball, to just have a conversation, to get to know you more, not to lead with, Hey, do you want to be in my Bible study?

Cause a cold call just to say, “Do you want to be in my Bible study or my small group?” is so hard. I'd say no. 

[00:33:41] Jim Jansen: Well, and there's this, there's a small percentage of people that are like interested in that right away. 

[00:33:45] Beth: Right. Yeah. Well, right. And is this going to be for the rest of my natural life? I have to be in your small group? Absolutely not. 

[00:33:50] Jim Jansen: I don't know what that invitation means. 

[00:33:52] Katie: Right. Or do you want to, do you want to serve as a reader? Or as you know, like some role to fill, but rather as an opportunity to... 

[00:33:59] Jim Jansen: The rest of us here are really tired of keeping things running. Would you come say...

[00:34:03] Beth: This is such a drag!

[00:34:06] Jim Jansen: But true. Yeah.

[00:34:10] Beth: Yeah. So, so right. So, we're following up these, these larger moments designed to connect with people with smaller moments of actually getting to know the person in front of us, hopefully. And sometimes that goes great. We try to, with our students, you talked about how do we prepare them? Well, once a month we have a gathering for our leaders, um, where we, we try to, to do some prayer, uh, and continue to help cultivate how the Lord is pursuing them.

But then also just share glory stories, we call it, or like, intensely awkward moments or crashes and burns. Cause like it's all worth celebrating.

[00:34:44] Jim Jansen: I love that. No, that's so good. But you like, you celebrate cause like the fear is like, Oh, I failed. It was awkward, right? Like the cardinal sin, like it was weird, but you celebrate effort.

Where I didn't actually get to see the results. You celebrate the like, Hey, I tried to be hospitable to someone who looked like they were uncomfortable. Turns out I was just the one who ended up being uncomfortable, but there's culture building because you're building a culture. Of outreach. 

[00:35:16] Katie: Yeah. The other, the other is like celebrating invitation over attendance.

So often it's like how many people came, how many people are living in your building, which is, it tells us something, but as far as like our, our own effort to invite, like, that's where it's all at, you know, so like my example with Kim, like how many times did she invite me? So, whether it's inviting, I've invited this one person 23 times and on the 24th time they say yes, or maybe they never do.

But there's that pursuit. So, to celebrate that, 

[00:35:47] Jim Jansen: Oh, that's so good. You know, that reminds me, I heard somebody do kind of like a baseball numbers breakdown where it's like, okay, think about it, right? Like every time you're up to bat, you get at least three balls that come over the plate, sometimes more depending on foul balls and, you know, pitches out of bounds, et cetera.

And if you just every fourth time get on base, you just hit one of those three balls. Every quarter, you know, one out of every four times you get on base, you will be in the hall of fame, right? I mean, because that's a 400, you know, batting average. And that's like what people like don't realize is like swinging and missing, you know, making an invitation that isn't received is it's just part of the game.

And, and I love it. Like you're creating a culture where you celebrate that. 

[00:36:38] Beth: Right? Cause it can also be so heartbreaking. You're like, I put myself out there and somebody said, no, and this is really hard, and I didn't really want to do it. So, to hold that up. 

[00:36:46] Jim Jansen: I'm never listening to Beth again! 

[00:36:48] Beth: Right, right. So, so to say like that is worthy of celebrating is also really important because, because.

You know, sometimes we've asked our leaders to call the people we've met at these large events and like four out of the five say no, or don't respond or like, who the heck are you? Ghosting. One of our leaders just shared with us that she had made a phone call, and this person was like, How did you get my number?

Like, I don't know why she answered. I'm a millennial. I would not even have been answered, but, uh, and she's like, it was a little disappointing, but she was still so like heartened. Cause there was two other people who may be, who said yes, or she went and got coffee with, and they had a great conversation.

So, to, to be able to hold up all of that, as that is our goal. It's not necessarily that you bring 10 people with you. I don't find myself to be a great inviter. I'm probably never going to bring 10 people I might ask three and none come, and then the next time I might ask the same three and one comes. So, it's like, yeah, we're just keeping that at the forefront because it's so disheartening sometimes.

[00:37:54] Jim Jansen: Well, you're focusing on the invitation, the action, not the result, and you're training grit. Like, come on, like it's okay if you invite somebody and they say no, really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's okay. 

[00:38:05] Katie: Sometimes in our, in our fear, nervousness, we can also conflate. the experience before it ever happens.

[00:38:10] Jim Jansen: Oh yeah. 

[00:38:11] Katie: So, there's one is sort of like, I have to call 45, 000 people and like, no, you just call 10, you know?

Um, and then the other is like, it's going to just be the worst, but just kind of keep in perspective to what the, what the goal is, what you're hoping for, but then also like the person in front of you. So, I'm just going to call Sarah. That's Sarah. That's my point. 

[00:38:29] Jim Jansen: Yeah. I just want to, we did a little bit of this, but I just want to maybe switch into translation mode for a moment.

Cause this is like, you all are a very particular parish. You've got young people who have time and yet I think all the lessons are so transferable. You know, I mean, granted, it's not the same thing. Classes and work and online classes, etcetera. But like, I mean, people feel, oh, gosh, it doesn't feel like my neighbors are available and it maybe doesn't feel like I feel like some of the lessons you're teaching about persistence and outreach, creating moments where we can actually have conversation.

I feel like a lot of these lessons and even the seasonal, I love how you're talking about, Hey, there's a season to me. It seems, I think we've talked about this before, that in a parish context, particularly a parish with a school fall is like a startup time. And then there's this kind of narrow window where people are reestablishing their, their habits.

And there's all of those, you know, like go back to school night, whatever, there's these key moments that could become a place where, hey, I'm going to meet someone here and maybe there's only two of us who have that mindset, but we're going to support one another. It's like, how many times did you get turned down?

And like, we're going to, we're going to start to create a culture where we're actually connecting with people. And I think this is totally transferable to any parish context. I don't know if you guys have any thoughts on that. 

[00:39:59] Beth: Yeah. I think you say that our leaders have time and, and it is true. They're relatively free agents.

Uh, they go to school, they go to their classes, they go to work. It's not untrue that they have time, but I think nobody in any walk of life at any point in their life feels like they have an abundance of time. There's always stuff to, to steal our time. And there's, and there's ways for me to give away my time through mindless social media, scrolling and things like that, where I'm just like, Wasting and you're like giving away the time that I do have for the sake of, of I need some me time or whatever it is.

So, our, our leaders don't necessarily feel like they have the time to be doing these things either. And so, I think that is just a universal thing that there's no point in my life where I necessarily think, you know what? I have all this time, and I would like to go to my parish and volunteer at their giant barbecue at the beginning of the year.

Like that, it just doesn't usually cross my mind. It's only going to be 90 degrees this year, so that'll be so fun, refreshing. It's just, I think it's, it's a generosity of if we're pointing our leaders back to the way the Lord has pursued them personally and particularly an outflow of that, a fruit of that is the generosity to, to offer that to other people to say, I want to do that too.

[00:41:33] Jim Jansen: Thank you. I love that because I mean, this is like big picture here, right? 21st century American. missionary outreach, right? It's like someday when we're getting like the missionary reception room in heaven, you know, and you're like, I went to China, it took me six months to like, Oh, I called 10, 10 people.

It was very uncomfortable. I didn't know. There's some of them I didn't know very well. 

[00:42:00] Beth: I did it in the basement though. So, it's probably just like steerage on a boat.

[00:42:04] Jim Jansen: It's just the same thing. Right. But like to just take a little step of generosity because This is, I almost said this when Katie, you were telling the story about, wow, spike ball for three years and one person, but that's soul is precious, right? I mean, Jesus died for that soul. I mean, there is an inestimable worth for that soul. This is the pearl of great price. I love, I love the, I'm going to cite Monsignor Charlie Brown, right? Jesus shortest parable. It's really his name, Monsignor Charlie Brown. Anyway, the shortest parable in the scriptures, you know, and a man found a treasure and uh, you know, sold everything were the treasure.

Like who's the, who's the guy who, oh, it's Jesus. He's the one who sold everything to her. And it's like, that's what he wants us to know. That's what like some, so many of those parables, the lost son, the lost coin, the last lost sheep. There is something precious here worth pursuing. Worth the awkwardness worth the chance of rejection. 

[00:43:15] Beth: Worth offering my time for. 

[00:43:16] Jim Jansen: Yeah. Oh, okay. One more thing. I got to ask something kind of hard here. Like, what do you do when it's not working? You know, like, okay, so we had an event. I mean, there were people there, but it was just us. There were lots of inside jokes. Some people were laughing. The food was okay, but nobody invited anybody.

And it's probably good that they didn't because nobody would have paid attention if they had come. Like, how do you, like, how do you get started? Cause I mean, you're painting this, like you guys have been at this for a long time. Just beautiful vision of this culture. And yes, you have to kind of renew it every year 'cause your, you know, your parishioners will graduate.

But like how do you get started and, and what do you do when it's just broken and seems hopeless to, to begin to create a culture of outreach. 

[00:44:03] Beth: We really just can't help you with this question 'cause this has never happened to us so... What a swing and a miss Jim. 

[00:44:12] Jim Jansen: Beth was like, it's always worked for me. I dunno, Katie? 

[00:44:15] Beth: And now over to you Katie. Yeah, I think. You try things and then I think sometimes we fall into this trap of in the middle of something noticing because we want it to go so well, we want it to be this great thing, and we miss what is working and we miss. The small things that are the, the beginnings of a relation, a relationship.

Because in the middle of it, we're like, we have to do this differently next year. And we start talking about that because like, we can't change what's happening in front of us. 

[00:44:48] Jim Jansen: The lonely person in the corner and you're like, next year, we need to make sure we talk to people. Never mind the lonely person we could talk to right now.

[00:44:57] Beth: Sometimes we fall into the trap of too much, like looking forward or beyond and just like not noticing, okay. What can I do now? What, what can we do to maybe redeem this a little bit? Maybe not. Maybe we just let it crash and burn and it gives us some insight into what, what people actually want. Maybe we go to some of our leaders and say, what did you think of this?

Like, cause also like my barometer might just be off, right? I could be looking at something and saying, Oh my gosh, like this is, this is so awkward, and I don't appreciate it. And it's very hot in here and we're running out of food and all these things. things, but then I, I asked Katie, like, what's your sense of this?

And she's like, Oh my gosh, 25 people are talking to each other. And like, there's this group over here and they're playing some spike ball, but you can't see it cause it's around the corner a little bit. And she just has a different perspective than I do. So, I think when, when we're kind of in the midst of this sorrowful, like this event is not what we had hoped for.

Trying to notice and gratitude like what is actually what is good here? 
[00:46:01] Jim Jansen: No, that's helpful because desolation can creep in pretty quickly. Yes, and you're like, oh, I'm all alone and just never gonna work and that's probably not the Lord. 


[00:46:10] Katie: I think sometimes we can kind of confuse like zeal for Maybe impatient, like eagerness.

I don't know. I don't know exactly the right word. 

[00:46:19] Jim Jansen: Well, like self-reliance. 

[00:46:20] Katie: Self-reliance! That's a good word for it. Yeah. We never struggle with that, but just to, to take a step back and, and to recognize like, we're all, we're all learning and it's okay to begin again. Goes back to this patience. Like, can we, can we approach ourselves and leaders, those we lead and our events, even with the same kind of patients that we have received and that we would like to extend.

And just reverence. Yeah, the great desires that we have and sometimes it's a swing and a miss, but can it be an opportunity to learn? Um, I think there's no, that's no failure, you know? 

[00:46:55] Jim Jansen: Right. Well, yeah, to learn. Well, and that reminds me, I was like, Beth, when you were talking about listening, like, oh, well, we ask our leaders like, Hey, what would be fun?

What would you like? And I feel like half the time when events don't land, when you really break it apart, like what happened? It was like, well, the six of us sat in a room and planned an event for people who weren't there. And we never asked them what would be fun for them or why again, you know, the classic is like, you know, the, the pastoral council full of empty nesters.

Trying to plan an event to engage young families and totally missing the childcare needs of young families. It's understandable to forget that, but that's why listening to those you're trying to reach out to is so powerful. 

[00:47:43] Katie: Yeah, there's a reason I don't plan community nights. For those that are 19 to 23.

[00:47:49] Jim Jansen: Yeah, they, yeah. Thank you. They plan them. 

[00:47:50] Katie: When I was, when I was a focus missionary and for the first one or two years I planned them, I built up a little team, but now it's totally student run because they have way better ideas than I do and they know what's fun for them and their friends and their peers on campus.

So just unleash it. And yeah, there's this quote that Father Andrews likes to use a lot. We use a lot around the office, but it's Craig Groeschel. Um, you can have control, or you can have growth, but you can't have both. 

[00:48:15] Jim Jansen: Wait, say it again. 

[00:48:16] Katie: You can have control, or you can have growth, but you can't have both.

So, when it comes to events or when it comes even somewhat to like how the strategy is lived out, like how someone might decide to. Reach out to somebody or it might not perfectly follow our plan, but it's better that way. Like it's better for it to be a little messy, but, but happen, I would say. So, there's all kinds of equipping and training and encouraging, but people like leaders need to be built up and then unleashed, you know?

[00:48:47] Jim Jansen: Yeah. And, and you guys are experiencing growth. Cause, cause you let go, and you trust it. 

[00:48:54] Beth: I think sometimes with the, with all the books that we have that we can read and you know, Fr. James Mallon's book, like all of those things that are so good and so helpful, but sometimes what drives me crazy is that they're writing about what's working and that's, it's really hard to put a pin on why this, this one thing worked.

I'd kind of like a book, this would be exceptionally sad, um, and melancholy, but a book of all of those epic failures and what they learned from those things. 

[00:49:23] Jim Jansen: Yeah. 

[00:49:23] Beth: You put on an event that by all accounts you think is bad and it crashed and burned, and it was no good, but like, did our leaders learn something?

Did they notice? They're like, did it stir something in them that like they also want this to be better? Like we collectively, not just our leaders, like we collectively want something better and want something more because we know we have more to offer. 

[00:49:45] Jim Jansen: Mm hmm. 

[00:49:46] Beth: We know we have the best thing to offer others and we'd be remiss if we didn't try again and to not be so quick to just throw things out with, you know, to say like, this didn't work.

We can't ever do it again. What are we going to do instead? And you're like, well, how can we leverage what we have and, and just, and, and. And shift and, and we don't have to do a 180, but we can pivot and, and we can refine and make this better. Cause like we, we can see something in our mind that could be good potentially too.


[00:50:17] Katie: Yeah. I just have this, this example, um, right before this, we named it the, The blue shirt backfire at this fun shirt backfire.
[00:50:29] Jim Jansen: It sounds, that sounds like a, like, that's your book 

[00:50:30] Katie: title. Yes. Oh my gosh. My other book title I was thinking of is No Silver Bullet. That would be another good, you know, there's not just one good thing.

Anyway, the blue shirt backfire. Was that one year at our big barbecue. So right, 400 people, we don't know a lot of them. So, coming from campus, we had these t-shirts made and they were like this really soft bluish color and the student leaders were buying them. And so, we're like, Hey, everyone should wear these just to, like, identify a student leaders, whatever.

It was great. And then we were observing, we're like, we can tell where people are. So, like, are they mixing in? Are they clumping up? You know, just, it was like kind of easy identifier. So. Last year we had the shirt that was bright blue, and we said, we should do that again. We should, everyone gets a bright blue shirt, and you'll wear that at the barbecue and that will be awesome, and people can identify you as leaders if they need help, whatever.

And so, we had this group of like 40 student leaders all wearing this bright blue shirt. People started to show up for the barbecue. So, you have 40 people wearing a bright blue shirt and then like three people who are starting to show up, trickle in, not wearing a blue shirt. And so, they are incredibly uncomfortable because they're like, where's my shirt?

I didn't get the memo. 

And so, what was intended to be this like helpful, like we want to be able to identify who they can reach if they need help or. Even for themselves to be like, okay, I can, I can be in a circle with one of my peers, like one of my friends, but we want to make sure not to be in a whole group of just blue shirt people.

It just, it kind of backfired. So that was instead of saying, we're not doing the barbecue again, that would have been a little extreme. We just said, maybe not with the blue shirts, wear a Newman center shirt and introduce yourself, you know? That's so anyway, that was an example of. I was swinging a miss and that's okay.

We learned a lot from that. 

[00:52:21] Jim Jansen: Okay. Our time is totally flown, but I want to give you a chance here. Like what comes next? Like you go to a lot of effort to be hospitable, to actually go out and reach people on campus, you know, where, where they're at, uh, what comes next after that? 

[00:52:39] Beth: So, kind of in our clear path, the next step for us is the next best step.

So aptly named, yes, aptly named. We want people to know what it means. Basically, we just, we run the things that we know work, right? So, we, we start in on small groups and Bible studies. We have a couple of retreats, um, this semester that are coming up. So those are our big kind of key moments. And so, we run those as planned.

Um, we also have some consistent ongoing opportunities. That people can kind of always dive into, which is community night. These are weekly things that we do. 

[00:53:14] Jim Jansen: Weekly things that are standing places where someone could come, come to. 

[00:53:18] Beth: Yep. And so, there's, those are varying in demand on the person, right? A community night's pretty easy entry.

We kind of, we have a Catholic lecture series. It's a little more intellectual and catechetical in nature. Uh, so those are kind of the things that just are ongoing, but really the bread and butter are the small groups. And the people who, who come alongside other people and accompany them and invite them into more, invite them into deeper mentorship, because that is also how we help prepare them for the next round of a relational outreach that we do in the spring.

[00:53:53] Jim Jansen: Right. That's where the next group of blue shirted. No. 

[00:53:57] Beth: No. 

[00:53:57] Jim Jansen: Or just bright and colored shirt. Yeah. That's where your next round of missionary disciples who make that, uh, make those events more than just a party. Right. They make an encounter. 

[00:54:07] Beth: Right. And this is the bulk of our semester, right? Like we spend most of our time in just like this best next step phase because it is particular to the people to like, what does this person in front of me need?

So, we spend a lot of our time here. It's not that we're not doing relational outreach, but we know like, okay, we're running these things that we can invite people to while we're still encountering others and trying to bring them into our community. 

[00:54:31] Jim Jansen: Yeah. And you guys have nailed the communication so that the leaders within your community know, oh, this is the next thing.

They know what is available to them as they're a friend, you know, maybe they're the only one who can be the friend, but they don't have to, like, carry the entire load of helping this person encounter Jesus. They're like, hey, come with me to this small group. Come with me to this retreat. And they have, they know what's available to them.

From your community to help them help their friend. 

[00:55:04] Katie: Yeah, we noticed. So we'd been kind of working on this and then students were coming up to us and like, gosh, it would just be really helpful if we, like, if we, if we had something that kind of helped us to know what would be the thing that we could invite them to.

And like, depending on where they were, you know, just a little, they were, they were asking for it so that it was just a, a really, a Holy spirit moment. Yeah. Just this combining of. Our work and desire and their work and desire and meeting each other to, to reach other people. 

[00:55:31] Jim Jansen: Ladies, any closing advice? 

[00:55:32] Beth: Mine is more on a personal level.


I think in doing this work in partnering with Jesus, uh, that personal prayer is really important. We've talked a lot about leading our… Having our leaders kind of go back to the, the pursuit of the Lord of them. Um, and if I’m being honest, I am personally struggling to desire to pray right now. And I can, I can feel how that makes me more self-reliant that the, the wonderful gifts that the Lord has offered through me, like in administrative capacity or, you know, fun loving capacity, whatever it is.

I can feel those being more of a burden to me and that I have to do everything right as opposed to the Lord is the only one who can actually convert hearts. It's his work, but he draws me into participation in that through my gifts. So, as I struggle to desire to pray every day, it just gets really hard to do it, to do the things every day.

And I, it's so, so important to stay rooted in my identity in the Lord. even when I don't feel like it. And, and luckily, I have a great team, and I have great friends who continually point me back to that as I kind of wrestle with my own heart and my own desire with the Lord to, to desire to, to be more in communion with him.

So that would be my advice is to stay close to the Lord. It's, it's always up and down and sometimes I'm really great at it and sometimes I'm not, and I happen to not be doing so great at the moment, but yeah, even this conversation gives me a little bit more hope that. I can turn to him in my need. 
[00:57:12] Jim Jansen: Yeah. Thank you, Beth. 

[00:57:13] Katie: Yeah, what came to mind for me was during our outreach phase, one of the kind of like rallying cries was just to ask God for his own love for his people. When it seems to be more about numbers or more about succeeding or yeah, when it has less to do with, with really the matter at hand or the individual at hand, just to ask for his own love.

Yeah. And a new vision for how he loves us and pursues us and how we can then have a new vision for what it looks like to do that for others. And then with that, just to, just to ask for patience in the pursuit, which is messy because it's relational and it's human and yeah. And in any discouragement, just a renewed patience.

[00:58:00] Jim Jansen: Amen. Thank you, ladies. Wow. Way to close on a really deep note, but that's kind of, I mean, that's the, that's the heart of it to like, give me your love for your people. All right. And if those of you, if you would like to find out more about John Paul, the second Newman center, we're going to put a link because it's a little awkward to say out the, or do you guys have that?
Do you guys have like a. Clear, easy way to say out the, uh, the website? 

[00:58:23] Beth: I say J P I, I Omaha. org. 

[00:58:26] Jim Jansen: Yeah, there we go. Okay. I didn't practice that. So, we'll link that J P I, I, uh, Omaha. org, uh. 

[00:58:33] Beth: Without the, uh. 

[00:58:34] Jim Jansen: Without the, uh. The, uh, it's just a space filler. 

[00:58:38] Katie: But there's no space. 

[00:58:41] Jim Jansen: All right, everybody, you know, somebody who needs to hear this, somebody who's thinking about like relational outreach and they tried and it didn't work and they're discouraged, uh, whoever it is, whatever they need to hear, if the Lord's tapping on your heart and asking you to send this out, please, please send it out when you get to your destination and you are safely not walking your dog or driving your car.

Thanks everybody. Thanks for listening to the equip cast. We hope this episode has inspired you to live your faith and equip you to be fruitful in your mission. Stay connected with us by going to equip.archomaha.org. God bless, and see you next time.