[00:00:00] Jim Jansen: Hey everybody. Welcome to the Equip Cast. So today I sit down with some of my fellow coaches from the peer support team, deacon Gregorio, Lazare, Whitney Bradley, and Andy Deka. And we have a fun conversation about how to choose a conversion moment, ministry for your clear path. Uh, this is the first in our installment of, uh, a series all about how to choose the various steps in our clear path.

So for conversion moments, we talk about the options, we talk about the characteristics, pitfalls, how you can lead a conversion moment in both English and Spanish. Uh, it's a really fun conversation if you are at a place where you're ready to discern. Conversion moment ministry for your clear path, or maybe you just want an upgrade.

You're gonna love today's conversation, take a listen. Hey everybody. Welcome to the Equip Cast, a weekly podcast for the Archdiocese of Omaha. I'm your host, Jim Janssen. Now let's dive into some encouragement and inspiration to equip you to live your faith and to be fruitful in your mission. Let's go.

Hey everybody. Welcome to the Quip Cast. So this episode is part of a special series on how to choose a specific ministry for each of the steps on the clear path. And today we're gonna zero in on conversion moments. A clear path is a parish framework designed to help people take their next steps as disciples of Jesus.

It's your plan for making and maturing disciples, parishes, and ministries that have a clear path. They know exactly where they connect with people, how they foster conversion, how they help people grow as disciples, and how they equip their people as missionary disciples. They have a context for their missionary disciples to bring people as they accompany them on their spiritual journey.

Well, the concept is simple, but choosing a ministry to serve as one of the individual steps on a clear path takes some research and some discernment. And so today I've got a panel with me of coaches. We're gonna talk about, uh, our experiences, helping parishes choose a conversion moment, ministry that was right for them.

So starting us off. Andy Deka, how you doing today? 

[00:02:13] Andy Dejka: Doing great. Glad to be here. 

[00:02:15] Jim Jansen: Alright, uh, deacon Gregorio. Elda. Deacon, how are you? 

[00:02:19] Dcn. Gregorio Elizalde: Very good, thank you. Thanks for the invitation. 

[00:02:21] Jim Jansen: Oh, I'm excited. This is gonna be a fun, fun conversation. And Ms. Whitney, also known as the producer of the Quip cast behind the scenes.

Now she's got a microphone. Whitney, how you doing? 

[00:02:30] Whitney Bradley: Pretty hungry, but otherwise good. 

[00:02:32] Jim Jansen: Okay, great. Well, we'll see what, I don't know if we can fix that, although I don't know if I've been to an event without Deacon Gregorio providing amazing food. So not on the docket for, for this morning, uh, but maybe after this we'll see, see how the conversation goes here.

Okay, so. Andy, we're gonna help people figure out how to choose a conversion moment That's right. For their specific ministry or right for their parish. But just to get us started here, what is a conversion moment? What is that ministry even designed to do? 

[00:03:03] Andy Dejka: Yeah. So kind of a technical definition of a conversion moment is a ministry that offers a clear proclamation of the gospel and fosters initial conversion through an encounter with Jesus.

So we kind of wanna break that open, please. Yeah. And first it's the clear proclamation of the gospel, right? So we have a ministry of the parish that's, that's intentionally proclaiming the gospel. We're not shying away from it, we're not hiding, um, the truth of the gospel and really what we mean by that.

So Pope Francis' articulation of it in the joy of the gospel, that Jesus Christ loves you, he gave his life to save you, and now he's at your side every day to enlighten, strengthen, and free you. I think it's such a, just a good, concise summary. So good of, of the good news, right? The good news. So that's the message that our conversion moments are trying to communicate to people and allow them to have a chance to respond.

[00:03:53] Jim Jansen: Okay. Andy, what are some of the characteristics of conversion moments? Like if that's what it is, if it's supposed to like foster conversion, what does it look like? What does it feel like? 

[00:04:03] Andy Dejka: So that's the first characteristic, is that, is that it, it has an opportunity to hear and respond to the basic gospel message.

Right? Okay. And so a second characteristic is hospitality. Right? These conversion moments really emphasize, uh, welcoming good food, smiling greeters, happy people. Happy people, right? There's, there's a sense of, they're marked by sense of joy, right? In receiving the people who are coming. And really, I think what that is designed to do is give kind of a demonstration of the love that we want people to encounter in Jesus, right?

So we're not just saying, this is how Jesus loves you, but we're actually demonstrating it in how we welcome people. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's key for, for any conversion moment, I think to be really effective is that it has good hospitality. And then another characteristic is, and maybe it's an aspect of hospitality, but is listening, right?

That we wanna listen to the people as they come. We're trying to offer them a message, saving message of Jesus, but we're not trying to force it on them. And we, we really want to hear where they're at, um, and, and draw them into the, the dialogue with Christ. 

[00:05:10] Jim Jansen: Yeah. It, I mean, it occurs to me like that's a little counterintuitive, right?

It's like, what's the purpose of the ministry to proclaim the good news? How are we gonna do that? Well, we're gonna start by listening, right? I mean, it's actually common sense when you think about it, but it's a little counter in, it's a little counterintuitive that you actually have to listen to people.

And I mean, if we can, I don't wanna like jump ahead, but sometimes if these people are not disciples, if they're not currently Christians or not practicing as Christians, or regardless of whether or not they were baptized, if they're not thinking like Christians, they might say some things that are uncomfortable.

You know, they might say a bad word. They might say things like, wasn't Jesus married to Mary Magdalene? You know, they're just, just different things that the world might say, and we have to be prepared to listen to that with patience and charity. And we don't need to jump in and correct 'em right away. We need to give a space where once they feel heard.

They might be disposed then to here. 

[00:06:07] Andy Dejka: And we'll, we'll talk about some of the different conversion moment options in, in a little bit, but I'm just reminded of something that Alpha teaches mm-hmm. In this space, which is, um, bloody tongues, right. That you would, you'd be so right. That you would be, so please explain that you'd be so open to listening to people and to not correcting them, that you'd be biting your tongue Yes.

Right. Until it bleeds. Right. That you're just resisting the urge to correct people or pull out your catechism. Right. Yeah. Because in listening, we actually create a safe place. We make people feel safe. And I've, I've heard of people that have come to different alpha conversations intentionally trying to provoke the Christians Right.

By saying intentionally off the wall things so that they could have an excuse to walk away and not come back. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. So by res, by receiving those things, we diffuse, um, any tension or anger or whatever they're bringing. To that experience. 

[00:07:01] Jim Jansen: That's huge. You know, it, it occurs to me here, and any one of you jump in on this, but we might be making an assumption, like, okay, this is what a, you know, this is what a conversion moment does, and this is what it's like.

Why do parishes even need a conversion moment anyway? 

[00:07:17] Whitney Bradley: Because if we're not proclaiming the gospel, what are we even doing? 

[00:07:22] Jim Jansen: Well put, well, and maybe it's like we, we just can't assume that people are disciples. I mean, we assume all the time, you know, like, oh, mean, depending on what you read, you know, oh, that we're a Christian country or that like, no, there are scores of people who have never been baptized in our mission field, in our boundaries.

There's scores of people who have been baptized, who are not thinking or living like Christians, and the solution to that is the proclamation of the gospel. Like helping people have an encounter with, with the, with the person of Jesus. And that's something that precedes the worship of a disciple at mass.

That, that there's something that has to kind of precede that. So I don't, I dunno if anybody would wanna add anything there, but just occurs to me that's a, that we are just kind of making an assumption that this is needed. 

[00:08:16] Andy Dejka: There's an image that Jeff Cavins uses about, um, just how we can sometimes just receive a pile of Catholicism, a pile of Catholic ideas, all this stuff.

Yeah. It's just, it's just a pile of stuff that we don't know how different teachings relate to one another or how it impacts our lives. The conversion moment is intended to give, get back to the center, get the mm-hmm. Get the foundation right. I like the image of kinda a wheel with spokes. Mm-hmm. Right.

That, that thema Jesus loves you, that's at the center and then all the other. Teachings of our Catholic faith radiate out from that or connected to that like mm-hmm. Spokes of a wheel. So it orders everything and gives, gives life to the rest of our faith. 

[00:08:58] Jim Jansen: Yeah. That's huge. Okay, Whitney, so practically, what are some of the ministries and programs that parishes use to foster conversion?

[00:09:08] Whitney Bradley: Yeah, so I think there's a myriad of them, and I'll name some, but I think you can kind of split them up into two main categories. You've got your retreats, CEC, curcio, something built in-house by the parish. 

[00:09:22] Jim Jansen: Often weekend, right? 

[00:09:24] Whitney Bradley: Yeah. Weekend short, uh, one day. Right. Okay. They're never, you know, your average person doesn't have time to drop everything and do a 30 day.

Mm-hmm. Fair enough. They may not be ready for it yet, because something we didn't say earlier is that. Well, anybody can be welcome to come to your conversion moment. We all need to repeatedly hear the corma. This is specifically designed for people who are seeking or open. Um, someone in trust could come, but really it's it'ss designed for someone who's kinda ripe for a decision.

[00:09:56] Jim Jansen: Right. They're ready. They, they actually want to know. 

[00:09:59] Whitney Bradley: But they also haven't made a decision yet or before. 

[00:10:01] Jim Jansen: Right, right. Yeah. Okay, good. So what, yeah, what are some of the things? 

[00:10:05] Whitney Bradley: Yeah, so there, there's retreats, but then there's also a swath of things that fall into this like weekly table discussion based program.

So that's Alpha Christ Life, the Rescue project. Uh, it's things that you come to for, I don't know, six to 12 weeks on repeat. And you, you have all the things that Andy just mentioned about listening in hospitality in a matic proclamation. Mm-hmm. But it's happening. Over the course of time. 

[00:10:33] Jim Jansen: Right. And unfolds over eight, 12 weeks sometimes with a, with a mini retreat in, you know, like near the, near the end as well.

There's also, it occurs to me, you mentioned some of these retreats, CIO's a good example where that's a retreat that's usually not a parish based retreat. It's its own kind of like movement. And so it's a thing that maybe the parish isn't running it, but if you're part of a community where one of these retreats is on offer, like curcio through a movement, you can sometimes just send people to that.

Maybe there's a big conference or something like that. So a parish, if you're like, oh man, we don't have the, we don't have the capacity yet to run our own conversion moment. We can send people to these, these places. 

[00:11:18] Whitney Bradley: Yeah. We have several, especially in our rural, several families of parishes that I think really utilize CEC.

Before they can build something in the house, they, they send a lot of people to have the experience and uh, they make very intentional invitations. So it is their conversion moment because they're utilizing it. 

[00:11:38] Jim Jansen: Right. It's just not their parish run program. Correct. Or ministry. Correct. Yeah. Which is huge.

It's really, yeah, it's really effective. Okay, so Andy, I want to give you a chance here. Whitney kinda laid out, you know, there's like large group courses that unfold over various weeks. There's weekend retreats. Some small groups do this. We can talk about that. 'cause that can be a little trickier to pull off you.

You need a really high caliber leader to do that. Andy, we don't wanna get too far into the weeds, but I think it's helpful for people as they're starting to, to sort and sift and think about their options. There's some natural pros and cons to each of these types. Could you break those down a little bit for us?

[00:12:23] Andy Dejka: So starting with, um, some of the longer form options like, um, like Alpha and Christ Life, right? Those just unfold over, over a number of weeks or a longer process from already named that. Um, it just allows more time for maybe the ment to take root in somebody's heart, right? Whereas something like a retreat where you're kind of condensing that into a weekend.

You might wanna allow more time, um, on the back end of that for ongoing accompaniment of people. 

[00:12:49] Jim Jansen: Right. It's like the time is, is both a pro and a con, right? Yes. Right. It's a, it's a pro that man, it's spread out over a long period of time and it's a con 'cause it's spread out over a long period of time and someone may not be able to make that commitment or whatever.

[00:13:03] Andy Dejka: Totally. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 'cause it's, it can be easier in some ways to run, run a retreat that is, is just a weekend and get people to make a commitment to, to attend that. But e either way, for any of these conversion moments, they are just a beginning. Right. Um, the, the actual percentage of people that makes a decision, um, is not a hundred percent right.

[00:13:22] Jim Jansen: Mm-hmm.

[00:13:22] Andy Dejka: Of, of, of those who go through. So everyone does need more time for the curig meta unfold. Right. 

[00:13:27] Jim Jansen: That's a good, that's a good point. These are not like, these aren't factories. There's nothing automatic about it. It creates a space where the Lord can work and a context where this could happen, but sometimes that grace unfolds.

I mean, uh, differently in individuals lives. 

[00:13:44] Andy Dejka: Some of the long form options, alpha Christ's life, they, they have a lot of different roles, um, that are, that are specified and, and there's the, um, it's just a, like the kitchen team, right? Making meals week after week can be, um, really intensive. That's a really intensive process too.

[00:14:00] Jim Jansen: It's a big commitment, big commitment to, because sometimes these are meals, they could be as small as 10, but it might be, uh, you know, cooking a meal for 50 people every week. Right? 

[00:14:10] Andy Dejka: Absolutely. So, so that can be tricky if you don't have enough volunteers to pull that off. 'cause you don't wanna skimp on the quality of the hospitality, um, just to, you know, just to make it go enough weeks.

Right. So if, if you have to focus your resources into a retreat to make sure that the, the quality can stay high, that's totally a, a good option. Right. I think one, one of the nice things about. Something at the, at the parish, right? We would talk about small groups, and I'll hit that in a little bit, but the parish retreat or Alpha Christ life is that you get the benefit of many different charisms all at work at at once, right?

Mm-hmm. So, so it doesn't, it's not as reliant on the individual charisms of a particular leader. Somebody may individually only have, you know, a hospitality charism or an evangelization charism, but you actually get the benefit of multiple charisms all kinda working in concert, right? 

[00:15:00] Jim Jansen: The, the people who, who you like, the, the, the spirit of God flows through their cooking.

They get to cook, and the people who are like, I just wanna talk to people, get to talk to people and on, and I was gonna say. 

[00:15:09] Whitney Bradley: For those of us who are more administratively gifted, we get to plan the thing and step back and let everybody else Yeah. Do the thing. 

[00:15:17] Jim Jansen: Yeah. You actually make sure the name tags are spelled right and, and actually thought of the details and all of that stuff.

That's a, that's awesome, Andy. I, I don't think I ever thought of that, but there is a, a flowering. Of like so many gifts in the community for some of these larger moments, like a weekend retreat mm-hmm. Or a, a course. Mm-hmm.

[00:15:36] Andy Dejka: Yeah. We really get the best of one another. 

[00:15:38] Whitney Bradley: It can make the whole process feel easier.

[00:15:40] Andy Dejka: Right.

[00:15:40] Whitney Bradley: I think in some ways if I, if I can lean on the gifts of my brothers and sisters 

[00:15:47] Jim Jansen: Yeah. And there's, yeah, there's a community there. 

[00:15:49] Andy Dejka: For small groups. I think there, there are some real benefits to using small groups as, um, as a conversion moment. I'd like to highlight the, um, the resource, the Salvation History Bible study that, um, that focus, the fellowship of Catholic University students uses.

[00:16:02] Jim Jansen: Mm-hmm.

[00:16:02] Andy Dejka: That's kind of a conversion moment Bible study, um, that focus uses, that just brings people, you know, through salvation history up to the point of, uh, considering, well, who is Jesus? Who is he to me? Right. Um, and so small groups can be really. Flexible in a way that a big parish retreat can't be.

They can meet wherever, whenever they can meet on the timelines and work schedules of the participants. Mm-hmm. So that there's a huge advantage in the flexibility there. They do require a really mature leader and facilitator who, who's able to recognize where the participants are at and how to accompany them through that moment of conversion.

[00:16:40] Jim Jansen: Right. In, in the ability to proclaim the gospel. Yes. 'cause there's a variety of materials. Yeah. Like some of the materials you mentioned, focus has the salvation history. There's the crux. Catholic Christian outreach has some, we've developed some for Lent together that where the, the cycle of the, the scripture passages helps proclaim the gospel, but there's an intentionality and an invitation and even a low level.

I don't know the right phrase for this, but like, removing obstacles to the gospel, you know, that's, that's often part of these big courses that people sometimes that they're, you know, wrong notions of freedom or confusions about the church. The ability to gently remove some of those obstacles for people can be really, really essential.

And that's a lot if you are the one. Right. Or even if just two of you, you know, I make the cookies and Andy facilitates. That's, that's still a lot for a small group versus a larger communal effort. 

[00:17:39] Whitney Bradley: And something else I know we've talked about Andy, is if you're a missionary disciple, doing this on your own, bridging those people from the experience in your house to the church can be difficult.

And you were pointing out that you need a more robust system of support from the parish for those missionary disciples. 

[00:17:57] Andy Dejka: Mm-hmm. Yep. If you have some way of gathering those leaders together where they can just be, be encouraged. Um, because if you're, if you're going alone. It can be really difficult Yeah.

To be encouraged, um, to pray together. So yeah, if you're, if you're going the route of having a, a small group conversion moment, need support for your leaders. 

[00:18:17] Jim Jansen: Mm-hmm. And it, it's probably worth pointing out that some of these tools, although they might have a more natural habitat, they could be used in different circumstances.

Right? So Alpha is typically you're imagining, you know, 20, 30, 50 people in a parish basement, but you could do Alpha or Christ life in your home, just one or two missionary disciples together. Similarly, you could use some of the small group materials in a slightly larger, uh, grouping as well. So there's some flexibility and we'll talk about prisons and other cool contexts where these things have, have come, come to life.

Deacon, I wanna give you a chance to jump in here. You know, this is, this is a great place for you just to talk about the challenge that some of our parishes. Experience when they're serving populations with multiple languages, again, often Spanish and and English. It can often divide the parish and it's essentially two different parishes.

Just, you know, that have one pastor and one facility, or at least it can feel that way. Sometimes a clear path can be a source of unity to draw those together, but the ministries have to have the ability to unite and bring people together. It seems like that unity gets started with a conversion moment.

Can you talk a little bit about how a conversion moment ministry can be a place of unity for, you know, multiple groups of people who speak, you know, Spanish and and English in one, one parish? 

[00:19:46] Dcn. Gregorio Elizalde: Sure. Thank you Jim. Thanks for this question. So the first thing, when you say. Unity and, and division. I think the division starts when in one community we say they're the, the Spanish community or the Anglo community.

Mm. So there is one community with people who speak English and people who speak Spanish or Vietnamese or other languages. Yes. French could be here in. 

[00:20:14] Jim Jansen: Yeah, I mean here Omaha, we have French speaking and Yeah. That's awesome. Yes. Vietnamese, Korean. Mm-hmm. So many. And Sudanese. Oh, and Sudanese as well.

Sudanese. Oh yeah. Sorry. Why? I mean, there might be French speaking. Uh, Koreans. Koreans as well. Vietnam has, absolutely. Anyway, keep going. Deacon. 

[00:20:31] Dcn. Gregorio Elizalde: So regarding the experience on shared events, I can speak from my personal experience. I'm the fruit of a retreat that truly changed my life completely. It was a bilingual retreat in here, in, in, uh, Crete, Nebraska.

During the talks, we were in separate rooms, so one in English, one in Spanish. Mm-hmm. But, uh, during meals, during, during prejudice time, we came together and so we were separate by language. Yes. But United by Food, delicious food. Of course. That's, it's like where we started. Yeah. Yes. So also United by prayer, but the most important united by law.

Yeah. And, and the love is a much stronger language than any war. Mm. And so that experience, uh, reminds me that conversion moments can absolutely, absolutely foster unity if we are intentionally. It is, it's not just about about translating content, it is about creating shared encounter with Christ. 

[00:21:42] Jim Jansen: Deacon, what did that do for you?

You talked about that retreat, and we've talked as, you know, we've, you shared your story personally. What did that do for you as you're, you're experiencing conversion, you're having this kind of beautiful encounter moment in your life. What was. I dunno, what was the, the effect of having both, you know, English and Spanish speakers together at that moment?

[00:22:08] Dcn. Gregorio Elizalde: Uh, I think it's, it's the closeness. So the, the effective, uh, unity. Yeah. Because when I, and that happened, I, maybe I didn't realize before, maybe that's why when I, I like to, uh, hug people. When I hug somebody. I don't, I don't think, oh, he's white, he's yellow, he's brown, he's black. Mm-hmm. No, he, he's a son of a son of God and I can, I can feel he's heart to my heart with something in the middle.

Mm-hmm. And that's the love of God. So that, that is, uh, for me, it's a big moment. Yeah. Of encounter. Of course, there is the encounter with, with God, but also the encounter with my neighbor. 

[00:22:56] Jim Jansen: Yeah. That's beautiful. So, deacon, when you experienced this, this was, as I understand it, it was, it was a retreat. It wasn't, uh, a program.

So there were English speakers for, you know, the English speaking kind of the presenters, Spanish speakers for the presenter. I, I'm assuming some were bilingual, being able to kind of bridge things as well. Talk a little bit about like the, the leaders and, and what would be needed to pull this off if you're not using a program that's already translated into both languages.

[00:23:28] Dcn. Gregorio Elizalde: Yeah, it was, uh, it was the, the retreat. It is part of the, of the life in the spirit retreats. Okay. Yeah. So we have material in Spanish. We have material in English. So of course the priest was like, uh, the facilitator, yes. But some people in the Spanish side speak a little English and maybe some of the people on the English side, they speak a little Spanish.

So they were like the, the bridges between the two languages. 

[00:23:57] Jim Jansen: Yeah. Mm-hmm. That's huge. I mean, I get so excited about this opportunity because again, whether you've got people who are bilingual or you just have like, some of these programs that, again, alpha Christ life, many of them are available in both English and Spanish.

It's really exciting about, I mean, what you can do to foster conversion and to foster unity at the same time. I'm so excited for, I mean, just for people to, to begin to lean into this more, uh, more intentionally. Whitney, I wanna give you a chance, this step on the clear path, uh, that is a conversion moment.

It's often one of the last steps, or excuse me, it's one of the first steps built.

[00:24:39] Whitney Bradley: I was about to be like, what? What? 

[00:24:40] Jim Jansen: No, uh, well, I mean, people often start here. Why is that, like, why is, why is this one of the first steps? 

[00:24:45] Whitney Bradley: I mean, I think I already said it before, but we're an Easter people, and if we aren't proclaiming the kerygma what are we even doing? That's just like.

[00:24:54] Jim Jansen: Drop the mic. Wait. No, don't drop the mic.

But that's, that's really good. 

[00:24:57] Whitney Bradley: No, it's really expensive. That's just like who we are as a people and we need to reclaim that. So that's the number one reason. Uh, but then strategically speaking, there's something that a conversion moment does for your parish that I think it's not as easy to accomplish if you start in any of the other steps.

Yeah. And that's, it helps you with the cultural shift that you need to make. Mm-hmm. 'cause most of our parishes were built during a Christendom era, and so all they had to do was open their doors and people flooded in. And that made us, whether we meant to or not, more of an inward looking group of people.

We just met the needs of who, those who are already coming to or already in our community. And we need to be an outward looking people. Mm-hmm. Uh, who. Go to the peripheries, preach the gospel and draw those people into our community. An alpha, a Christ life, a retreat, because it's not primarily for the people in your pews, helps you from the very beginning start that cultural shift.

[00:26:05] Jim Jansen: Mm-hmm. I wanna build us something, you said cultural, but we didn't talk about this, but there are some of these retreats and ministries that have a more Catholic language and culture. Mm-hmm. So I'd be, I'd be curious, and some that don't and intentionally don't. Can we talk a little bit like, what are the ones that you would say like, okay, these have like the Catholic, these have a little bit more of a Catholic flavor culture, language.

[00:26:32] Whitney Bradley: The Rescue Project and the Christ Life Series are probably your most. Catholic. 

[00:26:38] Jim Jansen: Yeah. And I would say Curcio, CEC, those kind of extra movement retreats as, as well, that they have much more of a Catholic feel to them. Mm-hmm. 

[00:26:46] Andy Dejka: And there's certainly an advantage to that in some ways, right? That they can lead much more naturally into the life of the church and the sacraments.

Those can also prevent maybe some people from accessing them. If they, if they think that it's, that they're, it's just a religious event, then you have to be religious to attend. Right. You might not get the kind of secular. 

[00:27:07] Jim Jansen: Right. Meaning, meaning like when it's re, when it's really explicitly Catholic. If that language is foreign to you, if that culture is foreign to you, then you immediately feel that confusion.

You intuitively recognize I'm not one of these folks. And, and that can, that could be an unintentional barrier. 

[00:27:27] Whitney Bradley: That's a really good point. I forgot St. Joseph family of parishes, they're in a, the rural part of our diocese and they're currently using CEC. Knowing that what they're gonna do is reinvigorate the people in their pews more than anything else, and mm-hmm.

They want to build an alpha in order to reach people who maybe aren't as comfortable with that Catholic language. 

[00:27:48] Jim Jansen: Yeah. That's a huge, I just wanna make sure people catch that, because there's an advantage to having a, a very explicit Catholic feel and Catholic language for Catholics who need to, they, they, they need to experience a renewal of their conversion.

They need to have an encounter with the Lord. Again, for them, if it doesn't feel Catholic, they may struggle to engage, but then on the other hand, their nephew, their niece, their grandchild, their neighbor, for them, it's the, the Catholic language and feel may be an obstacle. And so at some point a parish community might have to pivot.

They might have to switch what their conversion moment is. They might have to run both for a period of time. 

[00:28:34] Whitney Bradley: Or just at least be very attentive. We've got a very successful, uh, discovering Christ, well the whole Christ Life program, but discovering Christ at, uh, St. Mary's in Bellevue. And I think though what makes it work is their leaders are very attentive to the fact that it is explicitly Catholic.

They're not hiding anything from their guests. They like that about it. That's why they picked it. 'cause it's explicitly Catholic. But they also know that that could be an obstacle and they seek to make that not, and in the presentation of its catholicity, they seek to make it not an obstacle, but they're very intentional about it.

[00:29:09] Jim Jansen: Right. They're, yeah, really intentional. I, I dunno if this is the right word, but compensating for that. And they have, they, they anticipate that. That's really good. 

[00:29:16] Andy Dejka: Yeah, so all of these programs are really just tools that missionary disciples can use and we should always be discerning, you know, if the tool is actually helping us with our mission or if it's hindering us in some way, and be willing to, uh, maybe swap out tools if we need to.

[00:29:32] Jim Jansen: Yeah, that's great. That's great. 'cause it, 'cause essentially the, the hospitality, the core message of the gospel, that's the same regardless whether you're serving pasta or you know, or hot dogs. Whether, whether you're using one that has a very explicit Catholic language and culture, or whether you're using one that is much more designed, you know, that's the joke, right?

That, that alpha's designed for like a, you know, a 24-year-old millennial male. Actually, it wouldn't be millennials anymore, but whatever. You get the idea, right. For like an unchurched person, it's just a tool. The point is the gospel. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay. All of this is more than theory. You all have helped parishes.

If they've started to kind of discern, uh, what, what conversion moment ministry is gonna be, right. For us, some flourish, some have struggled. What are some of the secrets to success? 

[00:30:23] Andy Dejka: Yeah. If you have a conversion moment that has kind of a recipe to it, like with, with Alpha or Christ Life, they're kind of established programs.

Definitely want to follow the recipe until you get a, a handle on it. Don't make a bunch of big changes. 

[00:30:36] Jim Jansen: Oh, that's really good. 

[00:30:37] Andy Dejka: Cut corners. Um, we already talked about, you know, not providing the meal. Um, sometimes they, they have a retreat included. Mm-hmm. Definitely do the retreat, do everything. Don't skip the retreat because it's, it, you won't understand the integrity of the program and what it's aiming toward and kind of how, how it all hangs together unless you just experience it.

Yeah. As is. 

[00:30:55] Jim Jansen: Oh, you're speaking my love language. 'cause I love metaphors, but it's like, you know, it's like what? It's like everyone had, like, when you have to put like baking soda in like a recipe, it's like, well this is dumb. I want it to taste sweet. This is salty. I'll just skip it. Like, no, actually it doesn't work.

'cause there's a lot of details of like the suggestions about round tables to facilitate conversation. Mm-hmm. And a whole bunch of other things that I, I don't blame anybody for initially thinking this is dumb, why are they talking about this detail? But you're right, Andy, like, just trust it. Follow the recipe because these are really well proven, time-tested tools now they've worked out the kinks.

You're doing something new. So in some humility, just follow the recipe until you have it mastered. Mm-hmm. And then maybe make a tweak. 

[00:31:39] Andy Dejka: Right. No, and I, um, I'd recommend the, the podcast episode, how to Kill Alpha in 10 Easy Steps, which just goes through so good. Yes. So good. It, it goes through, um, kind of all of the shortcuts that people tend to take and how those end up killing your alpha.

[00:31:52] Whitney Bradley: Mm-hmm. And if you make it to the end of the third episode, what I love is that Father Mellon will, without, it's calling it a clear path, he gives a description of what his clear path at his first parish where he did this, looked like using Alpha. And it's just a, it's a beautiful expression of how their alpha turned into a real way to bring people into the church.

[00:32:17] Jim Jansen: Yeah. And, and to be clear. How to kill Alpha in 10 easy steps. Might as well be How to Kill Your Conversion Moment. Retreat in 10 easy steps. Yes. Yes. How to, how to kill Christ Life. I mean, some of these, again, alpha Christ Life, the Rescue Project, because although they're more programmatic, the benefit is there's a communal wisdom around them.

There's often an organizational support structure. You know, the folks at Christ Life, the folks at the Rescue Project, are gonna be eager to help you succeed in those things. There's a support system that goes with these, these things. If you're taking, if you're taking it, if you will, off the shelf and out of the box there, there's some advantages there.

Deacon, I, I wanna give you a chance to talk about, none of this really works if you don't have leaders who are missionary to facilitate it. Can you talk a little bit about the formation necessary for leaders as if they're gonna run a conversion 

[00:33:14] Dcn. Gregorio Elizalde: moment? Sure. People who speak Spanish. So we have 17 parishes with Hispanic ministry.

But on those 17 actually churches, because there are 16 parishes, 17 churches, we have maybe about 40 prior groups. So, or 40 groups on those, uh, 17 churches. And one of the of the biggest needs that we have seen is the formation of the leaders. Mm-hmm. Because we need to be sure that they have formation that goes beyond their own group because they need a broader vision of the church and, and her mission of evangelization.

Because sometimes, if I can say, often we see the groups acts like a filters for the church. 

[00:34:10] Jim Jansen: Like filter. Like they're just like, you can't get to the church unless you come through the group. 

[00:34:15] Dcn. Gregorio Elizalde: Yes. So you need to belong to a group and then go to the, to the church. And that cannot happen. So, 'cause the groups need to be, as Andy says, they need to to be tools, they need to be channels.

Mm-hmm. They need to be like a bridge, just where people can pass to go to the parish, to the church, not to the group. So of course there is a need that we need to emphasize forming leaders in a clear vision of evangelization. Not just in maintaining group activities or doing retreats, but knowing exactly what's the mission of the church.

[00:34:52] Jim Jansen: Right. Like the, the mission of the church to make disciples and these events that we have, the things that we do. Those are all tools for, for that end. But you know, we're, we're part of a much larger community than just our, our group or our ecclesial movement. And we're certainly not going, we're not, we're married to the gospel.

We're married to Jesus, not this Wednesday night event or this, this to particular retreat. 

[00:35:19] Dcn. Gregorio Elizalde: Yeah. Because there is a, um, not a temptation, but there is something that happened that sometimes the encounter moments, it is the end to meet Jesus. Mm-hmm. Because we encounter with the group that, of course, we meet Jesus in the group, but then the, the connection is with the group, not with the church.

And that's dangerous. 

[00:35:43] Jim Jansen: Right. That sometimes happens. I mean, this, that, that people's connection is just to this subset of the community and maybe not as clearly to the person of Christ. Yes. Or the church at large. 

[00:35:55] Dcn. Gregorio Elizalde: Yeah. Or words could be that sometimes the connection, the connection is just with the leader.

Sure. And if the leader change or the, or if the leader moves, then that person is in the air and do not know where to go. 

[00:36:09] Jim Jansen: Yeah. That's really, that's really good. Deacon, how do you like, what are some of the practical ways. That you can form leaders to have this bigger vision? 

[00:36:18] Dcn. Gregorio Elizalde: Well, we have resources in the parish support team, and we have the one called, um, the thresholds of discipleship, right?

Mm-hmm. And we have them in Spanish, so that way, uh, the groups can realize where the people is and where, or what the people need in their own reality. So it is, it is a, a very good tool. And some parishes here in, in the archdiocese are using them. 

[00:36:45] Jim Jansen: Yeah. It's like a game takes about a half hour and you kind of go through these characters and, and they, you start to recognize where people are at in their journey so that you can meet them Right, right, right.

Where they're at and help them to their, their next step. And yeah, it's available. We'll link to it, but it's available English and in Spanish. 

[00:37:06] Whitney Bradley: I was just thinking, um, one of the things Deacon mentioned was that sometimes our conversion can be attached. To a person. Mm-hmm. Like a human per, well, Jesus human, um, a non Jesus human person.

And, and something we talk about in, especially I, I don't know as much about the movements, but in like Alpha or Christ Life, is that there needs to be a high rate of leadership turnover. Mm-hmm. So that if that person does move, the whole thing doesn't die without them. But also because we're not necessarily meant to run one ministry from now until we die.

And so that high rate of leadership turnover actually makes for a very healthy mm-hmm. Conversion moment. 

[00:37:51] Jim Jansen: You know, it, it occurs to me as we're talking about all of this, what we're really talking about is discernment. So, you know, that's like, there's all these options. We could do a retreat, we could do one of these, you know, multiple week courses.

We could do one that's very Catholic in its language. We could do one and, and culture one. That's, that's much more. Secular is not the right word, but one that you like would, uh, would be accessible to someone from an unchurched background. There's a lot of things to think through. We're talking about discernment.

Andy, would you give, just like give some pro tips, like how do you begin to discern what conversion moment might be right for your parish? 

[00:38:30] Andy Dejka: Yeah. I think you want to gather a small group of leaders first to start praying about it, right? Pray about who God is putting on your heart that you really want to reach, because it might be that you want, you really want to reach the people who are sitting in the pews that haven't yet encountered Jesus.

Right. And that may be where the Lord is leading you, right. For now. Right. But at the same time, you always wanna, I mean, and this would be kind of a frame for the discernment, I think as a whole, is that whatever you end up picking as a conversion moment, it needs to be. It needs to have missionary DNA right from the beginning.

Right. Say more about that. I was about to 

[00:39:02] Whitney Bradley: call you outing, I think I was like, uh, you can't just reach the people in the pews.

[00:39:05] Andy Dejka: Well, yeah. It has to be, it has to have missionary DNA from the beginning, which means your vision has to be that we're al we're reaching the lost. Right. It may be that we're starting with some of the low hanging fruit, um, some of the lost who are sitting within our own pews, but, but it can't just be an insular thing.

[00:39:22] Jim Jansen: Yes. I, I'm reminded right, some of the like, kind of like optimistic philosophy here. Like you have to begin with the end in mind and the end is like the neighborhood, our mission field, you know, and there's that other, you know, kind of great philosophical phrase that first in intention is often last in execution.

So I've been building a house and I just can't wait to have this cool fireplace where my whole family gathers around to sing songs and play games. I. That's the last thing I get to do. The first thing I have to do is I have to cut down the trees and level the level the ground and dig the foundation and build the house and the frame.

And the last thing I get to do is sing songs and play games. That's what I wanted. That was my first intention, but it's the last thing I do. And similarly. 

[00:40:06] Whitney Bradley: It's like your whole house though, is built around, even though you don't even have the house yet. It's built around that idea. 

[00:40:11] Jim Jansen: That I, yeah. And so when you're building your conversion moment, your first intention has to be the neighborhood.

All of the lost souls that are commissioned to this pastor and this community of faith. Like there, you know, whether it's zip code or maybe it's a particular parish, like a Newman Center or something like that. But like our first intention, even though it may take us a while to get to it, is evangelizing the souls, introducing them to the person of Jesus.

[00:40:40] Whitney Bradley: Yeah. I was talking with Andy this weekend as we were kind of preparing for this and I came to a really strong conviction where I realized, 'cause my tendency, I'm very administrative, is to be like, what do we have in front of us? And then from that we'll decide what we can do. And that's usually like, like the logistics of it, like.

[00:40:59] Jim Jansen: Mm-hmm.

[00:41:00] Whitney Bradley: Uh, we have five fish, we can feed five people. Um, maybe you see where I'm going with this though.

[00:41:06] Jim Jansen: Yeah.

[00:41:06] Whitney Bradley: Which is that I, I don't think you actually start with the logistical resources. I don't, I mean, I know it's hard if, if your parish center is small or whatever, but at the end of the day, I, I think it's more about like what's gonna make it easiest for my missionary disciples to do what they want to do, which is go on mission.

[00:41:27] Jim Jansen: Mm-hmm. 

[00:41:27] Whitney Bradley: And that's the thing I build. And then the rest of it will sort itself out. The Lord will bless whatever it is that those people need and how you're supporting them. And if you don't know how you're gonna multiply your fish and loaves well that's the least of your problems 'cause the Lord will do that for you. 

[00:41:46] Jim Jansen: Right? I mean, you're, you're, you're talking to Jesus and you're talking to your missionary disciples and he's gonna show you the next step often through them. Because, I mean, we haven't talked a lot about this, but the heart of evangelization, you know, a clear path is accompaniment. But many of us who've been in professional ministry missionaries for many years, we've accompanied people, we've helped them through their, their faith journey.

It's hard to do it all alone, and it's hard to walk with someone through the entirety of the process. Turns out evangelization is a team sport, and if there's a place where, where you can bring this friend that you've made, that you're beginning to introduce to Jesus, where they can hear who Jesus is, they can experience his love, not just from you, but from a community.

They can, you know, they can get some of their burning questions answered. You know, they can, there's, there's other people who love them when they say silly or like dumb, scandalous stuff. Like just all of those things. To have a communal context, to foster conversion is so essential. Mm-hmm. Even when you're fully equipped as a missionary disciple, I, I want someplace to bring my friend when they're ready to hear the gospel.

[00:43:02] Andy Dejka: Yeah. I would say too, just as a, just as a practical matter for discernment. Before you open up a conversion engine to the whole parish, just to do it with the team, you know, do do it with Yes. Beta test it beta, test it with a small group of leaders. I know. This is how St. Gerald got started. They had I think 12 people that were, were just interested.

They, they had a heart for mission. They wanted to bring Jesus to people, and they just met it, um, you know, Joe and Becky's house and they had the retreat there. Yes. And they just talk about that as just, um, a really beautiful experience of the Holy Spirit and a feeling of confirmation and commission in, in what they were setting out to do.

So, yeah, just, that's a great tool for discernment. It's just beta test. 

[00:43:42] Jim Jansen: Well, and I would add, it reminded me like scouting reports. So like, find, read up, go to the websites, read up on these different programs, whatever, but like, go there, there's probably a parish near you. So send a couple of trusted, mature, discerning individuals to go experience it.

And not just once. Not just like, well, okay, we're gonna experience like, you know, one hour a Tues Tuesday night, but to, to go through the retreat, to go through the course and to experience it in its fullness. 'cause there are things that you won't notice with one short visit. You need the repeated exposure.

You need to see the whole thing. You need to look under the hood. And it's worth the time. It's worth the effort to investigate that and to check it out. A anything else on this discernment space? I mean, this is, this is a really key thing. I mean, your choosing is not just a pro and con list. We're gonna provide a really good, we'll link to it, a really cool chart that that gives some things.

But this is really an exercise of prayer and discernment. 

[00:44:46] Whitney Bradley: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I don't, I mean. I think it's implicit. And maybe just to make it explicit, when we say discernment, we don't mean just thinking discernment. We mean sitting down with that group of missionary disciples, listening to them, and then pausing everything you're doing and listening to the Lord.

[00:45:03] Jim Jansen: Yeah. Which again, other checkouts, some other podcasts on this, we can link to it. But a great method for this is the discernment rosary. You know, where we recommend, um, you pray the rosary, but instead of meditating on a decade, you meditate on a question. So in this context, it might be okay, Lord, like who?

Who are you drawing us to, to share the gospel with? Right? The who, Lord, who have you provided, uh, to facilitate our conversion moment ministry? You know, who are the leaders, Lord, what, what ministry do do you want us to use? Just to bring specific questions you pray through. You know, you're bringing the question to Jesus through Mary.

You're, you're praying your, your 10 hail Marys often pausing, quiet, some journaling you're sharing together. And the facilitator is, are listening for the common themes that are beginning to come up in people's prayer as they listen to the Lord. And I mean, he speaks. And even more when you do something like a discernment rosary, you also have the confidence that, that you gave him the chance to speak.

And, and, and, and you have heard the common, you know, you know, it's not just like, oh, okay, you know, we, we went with Jim's idea 'cause he spoke first and nobody else wants. It's like, no. It's like we actually all heard the Lord's saying. Directing saying this thing directing us in this, in this one direction.

I wanna give you guys a chance to tell some stories, right? I mean, there are a ton of places that have been trying conversion moments. A variety of different contexts, not just parishes specific ministries as well. I just wanna give you guys a chance to share some of these stories 'cause they're really fun and really, really hopeful.

[00:46:40] Andy Dejka: We already mentioned St. Mary's in, in Bellevue for their, uh, Christ life, you know, and there's just been a, um, really a slow kind of faithfulness and perseverance that they've had. Tina Targe is the kinda the leader. They're starting to see conversions. Um, people, you know, coming through RCIA, they had, um, their secretary currently was, um, Hey, Taylor.

Taylor, yeah. From, from Christ Life. And, um, that just changed. I think that just starts to change the culture of the parish. You know? Um, there's been people that have now been on the Pastoral council that, that were, that all went through Christ Life. But yeah. Having a secretary go through and experience experience conversion. Yeah. 

[00:47:18] Whitney Bradley: To be clear, he wasn't the secretary when he went in and he was working in a bar and was as secular as a bartender you might think would be. 

[00:47:27] Jim Jansen: Right. He was a, a product of the grace that the conversion moment is supposed to foster. 

[00:47:32] Whitney Bradley: Yeah.

[00:47:32] Andy Dejka: Right.

[00:47:33] Whitney Bradley: And he's now the secretary because of that conversion and because they saw that that's a position that could out of that conversion continue to share and to receive new people and to be the face of the parish.

[00:47:49] Jim Jansen: Yeah. What, what better place to extend the experience of hospitality than to be the first face. Yes. You know, the secretaries often, that's where, that's where people first connect with our parishes. Yeah. 

[00:47:58] Andy Dejka: And it's, it's led so many people because of their conversion that they've experienced there. Um, they're going on to lead in, in other ways, right?

Mm-hmm. They're taking on new, trying to lead new ministries. Mm-hmm. And so it's actually. It's generated leaders for them. Mm-hmm. Which is really exciting. 

[00:48:11] Whitney Bradley: They've had several ministries grow up and become portions of their clear path because of leaders that came out of their Christ Life series. 

[00:48:20] Jim Jansen: Yeah. And it, I mean, it's produced leaders.

It's produced disciples, people that were not formally initiated into the church who then come through the OCIA process, join the church at Easter, as well as people who are like, oh yeah, I was already baptized, but now I've got a fire to share. Yeah. 

[00:48:36] Whitney Bradley: I mean, and it's, it's taking away obstacles where there were some, some real in leadership, you know, and some real leadership obstacles like a parish council that didn't understand the direction they wanted to go in.

And now their parish council, one of the last conversations they had. Rachel, their evangelization coordinator wasn't able to be there with them and they did a mapping of all of their clear path ministries to kind of understand what was going on. And they got to the point where they were like, well, if it's not on the clear path, do we even need it?

We should get rid of anything. Do we even need a finance council? 

[00:49:12] Jim Jansen: Oh, that's so good. Well wait. No, not not. They do need a financial, actually, you canonically need a required a finance council. But. 

[00:49:18] Whitney Bradley: Um, and so Rachel's take Yeah, but the clarity be frustrated. She was like, oh, they're going crazy, and I just don't know.

And I was like, no, no, no. Back up, Rachel. I know it. I know you've got some correcting to do, but you now have a parish council that is so willing to do what it takes 

[00:49:37] Jim Jansen: Yeah. To fulfill the mission. 

[00:49:38] Whitney Bradley: To fulfill the mission, yes. That they'll get rid of anything. You might need to, I'd rather have to curb the zeal.

Then, then somehow produce zeal where there is none. 

[00:49:48] Jim Jansen: Yeah. Well, and I mean all of that, I mean, that's a hilarious story, but it's helpful. There is a prominence that your conversion moment, uh, and all the ministries of the clear path, but particularly your conversion moment needs to have, like, it can't get lost in the weeds of all the stuff of parish life.

It has to be clear to everybody in the parish and to those who are just kind of on the peripheries. This is one of the main things they do. This is how I really get started and connect, connect to Jesus in this community. Like this is a big, this is a big deal. 

[00:50:20] Andy Dejka: And I think there's a, there's a lot of other, you know, conversion moments that we could, could name.

And there's been some beautiful things that have been happening through, through Alpha with, um, you know, some leaders taking, taking Alpha to the Women in Crisis at Bethlehem House. 

[00:50:34] Jim Jansen: Mm-hmm. Which is a women's shelter. Uh, often pregnant, you know, running from abuse. Yeah. 

[00:50:40] Andy Dejka: And then, and then bridging that back to, um.

A joint retreat with the alpha in their, in their parish. Um, which is just a really beautiful experience for all of them. And then, you know, taking Alpha into the prisons, TEMSA prison, there's been a bunch of, one of our big state prisons nearby. Yeah. There's been a bunch of local leaders that, um, that regularly go in and, and serve leading a conversion moment for the, for those in prison.

Some of our parishes who run the retreats, um, St. Charles Bo Mayo and St. Stephen the Martyr run, uh, Covas, which is what Jesus, um, said to Peter, where are you going? Right. Um, on way to point him back to Rome, but it follows the life of St. Peter in the gospels. Right. And so it's just really the witness of the life of St.

Peter as he's coming to wrestle with, who is Jesus? What does he mean for me? And he is the Christ, but then I deny him and mm-hmm. Um, so it's just, I think that's a really beautiful example of a parish retreat. 

[00:51:32] Jim Jansen: Well, and a cool biblical. Just to, to hang on the character, the life of Peter is, is is, I dunno. I mean, I just feel like I'm a lot like Peter, so, so maybe I'm, I'm attracted to that.

Listen guys, our time is flying here, but I wanna give you each a chance. And Deacon I'll, I'll, I'll go to you first here. What are some of the kind of distractions or mental hangups, these are some of the pitfalls that, that could short circuit your efforts to, to choose and to run a conversion moment?

Well, what do we need to be careful, uh, to avoid? 

[00:52:08] Dcn. Gregorio Elizalde: One, one of the things could be that we often assume that if we saw somebody who attend mass, who reads the Bible, who receives communion, and we think that this person already, uh, know Jesus, or that they have consciously, uh, do a decision to follow him, but sometimes not the case.

Mm-hmm. And that happened to me. About 25 years ago was attending mass in my parish, and then the priest asked me to be a an EMHC, so. 

[00:52:45] Jim Jansen: Oh, a extraordinary minister of communion. 

[00:52:47] Dcn. Gregorio Elizalde: Yes, yes. So then somebody told me, the father says that the e eh, HMCs need to be the first one to be in nocturnal adoration. So I start going to the, that group nocturnal adoration for five years, once a month, the whole night in, in adoration.

But being honest, many times I didn't even want to go. I didn't really know why I was there. I didn't know who I was supposed to be adoring, but was until five years later. When I was actually, I was not invited to the retreat. I just talked earlier. But I fall in that retreat and then I meet Jesus. Mm-hmm.

And then I decide to follow him. So that's why I believe that conversion moment ministries must go beyond just inviting people to do things. We need, we need to, to provoke, to create, to promote moments of encounter with Jesus. 

[00:53:52] Jim Jansen: Yeah. 

[00:53:53] Dcn. Gregorio Elizalde: Thank, thank you Deacon. That changed my life.

[00:53:55] Jim Jansen: Yeah.

[00:53:55] Dcn. Gregorio Elizalde: Yeah.

[00:53:56] Jim Jansen: Well, and thank you for being so vulnerable.

I mean, there's, I mean, I can, I can think of dozens and dozens and dozens of stories of people who, on the outside might look like a disciple, might look like a good Christian. And I'm not saying like ontologically, they're not, I'm not questioning the validity of their baptism, but I. Oftentimes we can go through the motions and we can be culturally faithful and that's a real faithfulness, but have missed the encounter with the living person.

And think of it this way, it's like, man, how faithful and awesome was Deacon? I can think about so many other people in my life. There's like, yeah, they were a good disciple. And then when they had that renewed encounter, oh my goodness, what it does, uh, to release grace in their life and in all the lives that they touch, it's worth it.

But we often just assume that people know Jesus. What else? What are some of the hangups that we wanna warn people about? You know that as you're thinking about a conversion moment, you, you need to have in mind. 

[00:54:57] Whitney Bradley: I might be going a little off script here 'cause it said it doesn't have to be hard, but honestly I wanna change that to, it should be organic.

You should be asking. Your people, what they need to accompany others. And you should be doing what's helpful to the people you want to reach who are outside of the pews. But it might be hard. Mm. Right. I, this is the first thing usually that you're doing, uh, and the soil around this one is rocky. And because it's about the kerygma, it is the last thing that devil wants you to do.

So it might be really hard. 

[00:55:31] Jim Jansen: Yeah. The mental, the cultural, the resistance, I mean, this is, this is where souls are often decided.

[00:55:39] Whitney Bradley: Mm-hmm.

[00:55:39] Jim Jansen: And the maturity stuff matters, but this is, this often is what determines people's eternal destiny. 

[00:55:45] Whitney Bradley: So. All that being said, just commit to making it a priority. And you're gonna see fruits.

I have an evangelization coordinator who admittedly says she twisted the arms of all of her leaders to get an alpha up and running. And not all of them want to be running an alpha, but it's literally the only thing that's going on in their 11 parishes. Mm-hmm. Right now. But it is producing, number one, the fruit of unity, but it's also growing her people in a way that she can then start to put them in places where they thrive.

And of course, they're seeing conversions already having only run out twice. 

[00:56:24] Jim Jansen: Right. And that changes the hearts and minds of skeptics when they see other people's lives being changed. Yes. 

[00:56:29] Whitney Bradley: So, but it, it has taken and will continue to take the commitment of her pastor and herself to doing nothing. But what is the most important?

So they've said no to a lot of good things. A lot of people wanna help them, and they've said no in order to just run their conversion moment. 

[00:56:45] Jim Jansen: That's awesome. Thank you. I know, yeah, that's a such a good story.

[00:56:48] Andy Dejka: I would just add, um, or just point us back to the, the missionary DNA that it needs to have right from the beginning.

Mm-hmm. Um, 'cause I think when we hear about conversion moments that are struggling as we go out to different parishes, it's often the case that they're lacking that missionary impulse or culture of invitation. Mm-hmm. Um, so they start to dwindle, right? They, they start off with maybe, you know, a hundred people in their parish the next year, 50, the next year, 25, and then they're done.

Mm-hmm. Um, because they haven't been oriented to the outside and, and, and, right. Everyone can be an, an inviter, all those who just went through the conversion moment, if they had a good experience, um, even if they don't fully know what that means or they didn't make a decision to be a a disciple yet, if they had a good experience, they, they're.

In a position to invite somebody just come and see. Mm-hmm. I had a good experience and I think you would too. 

[00:57:36] Jim Jansen: Right. But that's part of, I mean, all of what you're talking about, this is conversion moments are often the first step built in a clear path, and they're that it kind of feels irreplaceable. I mean, they're all irreplaceable, but if you don't have something that helps people mature in prayer, that helps them recognize the gift that they've been given and gives just some basic equipping and evangelization invitations.

It'll die because you, you have to have a full clear path where people are being welcomed and connected in friendships before they're ready to come to a conversion moment. They have to have something after the conversion moment to help them grow and mature. And then they have to have something that, that helps, helps equip them for the mission to bring others in.

And if you don't have that, again, sometimes a, a conversion moment as people step into leadership roles becomes a mini version of that. But before too long, you need something that is explicitly equipping people at a deeper level to bring their, their friends. Any last words here? This has been a really fun conversation.

Any last bit of words of en encouragement can feel Whitney saying, just do it. 

[00:58:45] Whitney Bradley: I was like, you got this. I hear it's so right. Like, put aside all of your fears and, uh, trust in the Lord. 

[00:58:52] Jim Jansen: Amen. Alright, we referenced it earlier. We're gonna link to a, uh, cool chart comparing. Different conversion moments. Uh, list out some different options.

It's hyperlinked. Uh, just gives you, you know, a reminder of some of the characteristics of things that are, that are, uh, characteristics of a fruitful conversion moment. Uh, we're gonna link to that in the show notes. Please give us a call. We're trying to start a conversation here. So if you are in the process either for a specific ministry like youth ministry or something like that, young adult or parish wide, you're trying to figure out what conversion moment might be right for you, give us a call here, uh, at the parish support team.

You can find us at the chancery here in the Archdiocese of Omaha. You can, uh, respond back to us in the chat@quip.archomaha.org. And we would love to, we'd love to talk, talk through this with you, Whitney, Andy Deacon, thanks for being here. Anytime. Thanks. It's been fun. 

[00:59:47] Dcn. Gregorio Elizalde: Thank you very much. 

[00:59:48] Jim Jansen: Alright, everybody, when you get to your destination and it's safe, share this out with a friend and.

We'll look forward to, uh, talking in our next episode about faith formation. Thanks for listening to the Quip Cast. We hope this episode has inspired you to live your faith and equip you to be fruitful in your mission. Stay connected with us by going to equip dot arch omaha.org. God bless and see you next time.