BOOM Bangaranga The EuroWhat? Podcast The EuroWhat? Podcast Ben 0:25 Hello, and welcome to the Euro What, episode 301, dropping on May 19th, 2026. We are a pair of Americans trying to make sense of the Eurovision Song Contest. I'm Ben Smith, and I'm here with my co-host, Mike McComb. Hey, Mike. Mike 0:38 Hey, Ben. In Ben 0:39 this episode, we'll be talking about the 2026 Eurovision Song Contest. Ah, it is the morning after. and, that was, that was a thing to sit through. Mike 0:50 Yeah, yeah, what an after we are in. this has been a very weird Eurovision year. I'm going to, I'll be upfront ------ Were we engaged with the Contest this year? ------ 0:57 Mike 0:57 about that, just in terms of, like, all of the controversy surrounding it, but then also our own ways of engaging with the contest this year. Ben 1:06 let's, let's start with engagement. Like, how did you engage with the contest this year that was different than how we have previously sort of covered things? Like, how plugged in were you? Mike 1:15 I was reasonably plugged in. Like, like, keeping up the calendar of, like, when are things being selected? And then when things are selected, updating my spreadsheet, uh, because that's how I roll. But, um, like, I was speedrunning national finals like we've done the last several uh, I wasn't really following a lot of, especially the, like, long-form, uh, national finals like Melfast or even, Lithuania's selection. It was just like, okay, I'll tune into the final if I remember or if I can, or if there's something else that's scheduled, oh, I'll just catch up with it later. There was a lot of catching up with it later, um, and then with a lot of the internal selections, I didn't really seek those out. I'm not a hundred percent convinced that I listened to all of the songs before the shows this week. Ben 2:10 Oh, yeah, no, like, I actively went in. There were songs that were going to be new to me. It's just, like, I, if it was an internal selection, I didn't listen to it. when we had multiple selection weeks, if there was something I wanted to watch, I tried to put it on. But, like, I found my engagement kind of flagging, and that was where I, like, especially in, like, the first ones in, like, January, February. That was where I was starting to pick up on, this year's gonna be different. This, like, something is missing, because, uh, for me, uh, Luxembourg selection, there were at least two things in Luxembourg selection that did not feel ready for primetime. Mike 2:44 Mm-hmm. Ben 2:45 And I was just like, oh, if this is what's making the final cut, uh, uh-oh. Mike 2:53 Yeah, yeah, and, uh, I don't know, it also was becoming quickly apparent that there wasn't as much conversation and engagement online, because Ben 3:04 Mm-hmm. Mike 3:04 we're both pretty active on Blue Sky, uh, during selection shows. And even the times that we were participating, uh, it was just like, oh, are we the only ones doing this right now? Ben 3:17 Yeah, there were a lot of folks whose voices I really like in terms of chatting about Eurovision that, that sat out this Mike 3:23 them. Ben 3:23 year, and I Mike 3:23 Mm-hmm. Ben 3:23 miss Mike 3:24 Yeah. Ben 3:24 Uh, but also I fully respect that decision on their part. Uh, another one for me where I'm like, oh, this year's gonna be different, uh, Conchita just in January immediately just be like, uh, I am no longer associated with Eurovision. Just sort of immediately stepping down, saying, uh, you will not see me on that, on that screen. Mike 3:39 Yes, yes. Although, she did show up at the Luxembourg, uh, National Finals. Like, oh, well, maybe oh, contract was signed. Ben 3:47 You got, yeah, you got to make sure, yeah, if you sign that contract, you, like, as things built out this year, just, like, the field felt weak. Uh, just, like, watching Melfest, like, yeah, I guess Felicia will do, and we will, we will get back to Felicia, because there's some interesting stuff there, but, like, that felt so by the numbers, Sweden. Mike 4:06 Oh, yeah. Ben 4:07 even my beloved UMK, like, I didn't have a Eurovision party this year. I had a, a combination UMK and San Remo final party. Mike 4:14 Okay. Ben 4:14 In February, just because, hello, here is, here is the process I like a lot, and also, we should just watch some of San Remo. You do not need to stick around until the end of San Remo. You will, you will be here, you know, until too late. Mike 4:24 Yeah, yeah. You still have a couple of guests that haven't left yet, so, yeah. Ben 4:30 but those two actives, it's just sort of, like, uh, a useful, interesting contrast to just sort of, show my, my normal Eurovision party people, you guys always ask, how does a nation select these? Let's show you two very different processes, one that's, like, very tight, very selective, and another one that, you know, is still happening right now as we speak. Mike 4:49 Mm-hmm, yeah. But both producing very quality. Ben 4:54 Exactly, but one where I felt like, okay, we're not gonna have to sit through, like, five things that don't deserve to be there and an obvious winner. Mike 5:02 Right, exactly. Yeah, I think that was the other tricky thing with a number of the selections this year. Like, there was a lot of cannon fodder. Ben 5:10 There was a lot of cannon fodder, and, like, even my beloved UMK, like, sitting here on Sunday morning after Eurovision, I'm like, okay, if I had to rank UMK winners of the last four years, from 2023 to now, I think Linda and Pette would be fourth for me. Mike 5:27 Yeah, that was the thing that really struck me this year. I don't understand why that was the entry that the fandom seemed to coalesce around. uh, and I think part of it is, like, I am so done with the operatic 19th century, like, that one and, like, France's entry, like, yes, they are very technically proficient. How on earth is that—like, it got me to the point where I was just like, should we still be calling Eurovision a pop music competition? Because there's nothing pop about what is happening right now. Ben 6:05 one, if we had been covering it during normal seasons, France would have been, like, this is a beautiful technical skating routine. Uh, it's even artistic, but just, like, this is not my thing, and I don't think it's pop. Mike 6:14 sung very well, she has a ------ The Eurovision Brodacasts ------ 6:16 Mike 6:16 ton of charisma, like, charisma for days, but— Ben 6:18 Mm-hmm. Mike 6:19 Like, I don't care, and that makes a big Ben 6:25 my— Mike 6:25 difference. Ben 6:25 But yeah, so let's maybe transition into talking about actual Eurovision week a little bit, Mike 6:29 Mm-hmm. Ben 6:29 uh, just because, like, the theme of the week for me was just, like, all of these host segments are, like, two minutes too long. Mike 6:35 Oh Ben 6:36 That was another place that just—it just—something felt absent this year, it could just be, like, the whole German-slash-Austrian light entertainment is just a very different wavelength than, uh, the standard Eurovision hosting wavelength. I just remember being in the arena in 2023 and watching, the UK hosting team go through a couple different options of things, just because if something wasn't, you know—we wrote this, it didn't work in the room, we're cutting it, remove it. We—we have, like, three or four other things we can pull from our grab bag. And this one, it felt like, have—we have these segments. We did not plan any additional segments because we considered these good enough. Mike 7:10 for me, it really seemed like, is this the first time the hosts met each other? Is this the first time these hosts have been on TV? Like, there was just something—there was just no chemistry there, and just an awkward stiffness that made it very difficult to watch. Ben 7:30 like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, just, every time the hosts were on, I was just— Done. Mike 7:35 Yeah. Ben 7:35 Just— No! Mike 7:37 Just, Ben 7:37 okay, cool, Michael's showing up in another key party outfit, great. Mike 7:40 Yeah. Ben 7:43 an array of highly flammable, uh, disco leftovers. Mike 7:47 although it did seem like, perhaps, production was getting that note, uh, because, it felt like their presence was, as present, I guess, Ben 7:58 Oh, yeah, no, like— Mike 7:58 in the grand final. Ben 7:59 Semi-final two, we suddenly had Emergency Emily in the green room. Mike 8:03 Mm-hmm. Ben 8:03 Just, like, hello, I'm the owner of this Viennese coffeehouse. Mike 8:06 yeah. Ben 8:06 Uh, then she showed up, like, one more in semi-final two. Mike 8:10 they deployed her quite a bit in the grand final, um, although she kept making the mistake of handing the microphone over. It's like, nope, nope, nope, you'd never do that. could see that Dara was starting to kind of filibuster a little bit, and her, like, trying to grab the microphone back and— Deating? Ben 8:26 Seriously? Mike 8:28 But, Ben 8:28 yeah, like, the other thing for me is just, like, it is the 70th Eurovision is an edition of Eurovision that ends in a zero. Pew, pew, pew. Where is the historical stuff? the second time we the—the commentator quiz. Mike 8:42 Oh, my God. Ugh. Ben 8:43 Just, like— The second time we had a commentator quiz, just, like, I would have taken like, a pre-produced video package about the most boring piece of Eurovision over the last 70 years over a bad game show. that felt scripted and just badly scripted. Mike 8:58 I kept posting on Blue Sky whenever those segments were happening, just like, good lord, the live audience must be so bored right now, Ben 9:05 Mm-hmm. Mike 9:05 because, like, it was so boring on TV, it's just like, oh my god, being in this room while this is happening, what, Ben 9:10 yes, Mike 9:11 oh my god, Ben 9:12 For, Mike 9:12 yeah, Ben 9:12 like, so much of this, on the other hand, like, like, again, just sort of, like, the, the semi-final what should have been, like, a quick cutaway joke, ha-ha, Gojo is in the audience, he got sent to Austria instead of Australia, Mike 9:27 mm-hm, Ben 9:27 that is the end of that joke, you do not then write a seven-minute musical sequence about that level of wordplay. Mike 9:35 Yeah, and, like, pretty much devoted to an act that finished in 11th place in the semi-finals, so was not even at last year's grand final. Ben 9:44 The, the, the caliber of guests we had showing up to the 70th birthday party is just like, we were not getting the A-team, we were getting, we were like, yeah, I'll show up. Mike 9:53 and again, it's also a lot of the people who kind of show up every year, or every other year, um, a number of them were the people that were going to be on the canceled Eurovision tour, so. I wonder if part of that was ------ First Semi-Final ------ 10:06 Mike 10:06 maybe. Good, because that got canceled. Ben 10:09 Just like, well, you guys did sign the contract, and then the, the tour didn't happen, so here. Uh, but yeah, so, semi-final one, I was nine for ten out of who qualified. Mike 10:21 I didn't do any sort of predictions this year. I think that was another part of where my disengagement kind of kicked in, because it was just like, oh, I don't have to do this, because we're not talking about it on the show. Like, it was kind of taking me back to 2020, where it's just like, oh, the contest is canceled, and then, like, we never did a review series for those Ben 10:40 Yeah. Mike 10:40 entries, and maybe that's why I still have a fondness for a number of those songs. Like, oh, I have not listened to them, like, 50 times in a single day, to be like, what do I have to say about this? So, I wasn't going in completely unaware, but I, this is probably the lowest level of engagement I've had since 2010, only because with 2010, I didn't really discover Eurovision until April of that year. Ben 11:05 Mm-hmm. Mike 11:06 Like, oh, okay, oh, there's semifinals? I guess I'll watch them. Like, I didn't know how much, pre-work there, there could be, Ben 11:13 Mm-hmm. Mike 11:13 so. Ben 11:15 Yeah, I had the weird situation, like, okay, these seven seem, like, good, and it's like, I have no clue which of the rest of you. Mike 11:22 Mm-hmm. Ben 11:22 It's just like, and honestly, you could leave it at these seven. Mike 11:25 Mm-hmm. Yeah, that was the other thing. Like, this was really a tale of two semifinals. Like, when they released the Running Order announcement videos and watching the one for semifinal one, like, my immediate reaction to it was just like, oh, this is, like, they're coming in hot with Moldova. Oh, and then Sweden. And then it's just like, oh, this is kind of relentless. It was a very aggressive first semifinal. Ben 11:53 Yes. Mike 11:53 And then the second semifinal felt modern. Like, it's like, oh, this is where all of the entries that actually feel like they came from this decade are happening. Ben 12:02 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. we have numbers as of this morning. We did not have numbers until kind of late in the day, but that's fair. It's, it's, it's after 1 a. m. in Europe. Mike 12:12 Yeah. Ben 12:12 They all want to go to bed, and rightly so. So the jury's top three, because the jury is back this year, were Poland in first place, then Finland, then Israel. The audience's top three were Israel, Moldova, then Serbia. And in terms of who made the cut at Belgium, made it over Estonia by 13 points. like, battle for 11th and 12th is actually pretty close. There was, like, only five points between Estonia and Portugal. Mike 12:40 when you start digging into the, nitty-gritty of the scoring results, kind of shocking. Like, Sweden was saved by the jury. Ben 12:51 Yeah, no, Sweden was ninth in the first semifinal. Everybody's points are fairly reasonable, and then it's just like, Georgia is just sitting at the bottom of the semifinal one with three points from the jury and two points from the televote. Mike 13:03 I think it's kind of generous that they got that many points. Now, I think I'm almost certain I had not heard Georgia's song before this week, because I think when I was listening to a Eurovision playlist, it hadn't been released to streaming yet, and then, like, I didn't go seek it out, because it's like, hmm. I have a feeling that would just be a waste of my time. Ben 13:26 Three songs standing next to one another. Uh, and then, like, my other note that I did want to bring over from our blue sky to the show is just, like, uh, Boy George could have been an email. Mike 13:37 Yeah, he Ben 13:38 Just, like, Mike 13:39 really Ben 13:39 make him Mike 13:39 added. Ben 13:39 do a cameo and put it on the big screen. Mike 13:42 yeah, like, he really added nothing to that. Although, at the same time, San Marino finished ahead in the televote, uh, like, ahead of Belgium and Sweden. So, it's just like, oh, goodness, okay. Ben 13:56 Oh, man, I had not caught that in the numbering about. Mike 13:59 Mm-hmm. skimming through this, uh, like, I, I'm so glad that Moldova opened the Ben 14:04 Yeah, Mike 14:04 show. Like, Ben 14:04 that Mike 14:04 that was such a strong opener. Ben 14:06 Just, yeah. what a good return of the contest for them. Aliona showing up in the big dress is such a lovely Easter egg for those of us who have been doing this for a while. Mike 14:15 Yeah. Although, uh, so, uh, Satoshi, he was wearing a sweatshirt with the number 373 on it, and I was like, oh, I wonder what the significance of that is. And I, like, my initial Google search was 373 significance, and apparently it is the angel number, uh, which is, like, threes and sevens Ben 14:36 Mm-hmm. Mike 14:36 and, like, yeah. So it's like, oh, no, is that it? And then I did a, another Google search, during the show on Saturdays. It's like, it's also the calling code for Voldemort. Oh, okay. But that, that one's less cringy, so... Oh, Ben 14:52 yeah, no, like, that was such a lovely opener. and then again, just sort of Sweden just sort I, I sort of described it as, like, this is the We Will rave that Sweden had at home. Mike 15:01 Uh, Ben 15:02 and it gave me a, a deeper appreciation for what Colleen did a few years ago. Colleen is a dancer and Felicia is not. Mike 15:09 Yes, that, I think that was the big thing with me for Sweden. Like, uh, you had Moldova as the opener, and then you had, uh, Sweden immediately after that. And, like, I had posted at the time, I was just like, wow, this is so low energy compared to Moldova, even though you have, like, the lasers and the pulsing they brought back the juries for the semifinals, like, looki at the televotes, if it was just a televote-only semifinal, t two that would have made it, uh, would have been be Estonia and Montenegro, Ben 15:37 I am super interested to see what happens over at Melfest now that we, and, like, we can talk about, we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll circle back to that during the, when we chat about the grand final. Uh, but, like, I thought Montenegro did a great job, uh, cause, like, they don't have a ton of budget and they did a great job with the staging there. Everybody looked like a fancy furled lizard. I loved it. Mike 15:57 Their outfits on the turquoise carpet were bananas, they were just, like, these giant hair things. Ben 16:09 Just like, oh, just something organized by Vlodana involved incredible outfits? Color me surprised. Mike 16:15 Yeah, like, if you go through the photo archives on the Eurovision website and the EBU website, like, all of the photos are just, like, insane fashion. ------ Second Semi-Final ------ 16:24 Mike 16:26 And so it's like, oh, all right, like, I don't know what's in the water in Montenegro, but I'm, I am intrigued, so. Ben 16:33 All right, so let's talk about semifinal two. In terms of segments, I just have in my notes, what is Professor Eurovision's Rate My Professor score? Mike 16:42 That was my thought, also, Hugo sucks, so. Ben 16:46 Yes. I have, I was watching, uh, the, the ULLA, uh, coverage this week, just because, again, they were, they were favored. I was like, okay, if they do win, I want to hear how the host broadcaster responds. Mike 16:58 Mm-hmm. Ben 16:59 the level of noises the commentator was making after that segment. Mike 17:03 reall? Ben 17:03 Oh, They were not pleased. Mike 17:05 Oh, okay, that, that's good to hear. Ben 17:07 think the UK and Sweden didn't air it. Apparently the UK just, like, played their video for Ainz Weidrej. Honestly, it is an improvement over that segment. Mike 17:17 Yeah, yeah. So, uh, if, if you didn't watch Semi-Final 2, they, well, like, throughout, throughout the show, uh, all, all three shows, they had these Professor Eurovision segments where, uh, they would ask a question about the contest. And she's like, okay, number one,you should be listening to our pod if you have these sort of questions. Just Ben 17:33 Mm-hmm. Mike 17:33 saying. But number two, the direction on these was just bananas. Like, the Professor, like, the way that she's being filmed, her eyeline looks like she's looking out the window at, like, a bird that keeps trying to fly into it or something. Like, it's not, like, matching any sort of eyeline with the person that she is supposedly talking to. There are these robots that are animated, or, like, there was, there was just, like, an uncanny valley thing going. Ben 18:04 Just kind of doing stuff in the background. Mike 18:06 Yeah, yeah. And it's just like, what, why is there a pneumatic arm in the classroom? And it's just stacking TVs. Like, it was just very weird visually. The classroom setup was also just really weird. Like, j this very steep angle Ben 18:24 It's, Mike 18:24 of, Ben 18:24 like, steep lecture hall. But, Mike 18:26 yeah. Ben 18:26 like, for me, and, like, I think you called this out with sort of, like, the weird eyelines, is, like, it is so clearly Frankensteined of, okay, the people in the class and the professor were filmed at completely separate times. They are not reacting to one another in any way. Mike 18:39 Oh, yeah, absolutely. And, yeah. And then, like, there's this guy, Hugo, in the second semifinal, who, like, asked the question that was basically, like, why is Eurovision so gay? With that tone of voice. Ben 18:54 With that tone of voice. Mike 18:56 Yeah, and it's just, like, I don't know. Like, I think, ultimately, they came around to being neutral or gay positive or sick, but... Ben 19:08 We just, like, the, the, the, just sort of a meandering answer that is just infuriating the entire time and then just sort of tying it in a bow. We should replace all these letters with H for a human. Mike 19:20 Yeah, yeah. It, I think that's the thing. Like, it was feeling very, like, all lives matter, Ben 19:27 Yeah, Mike 19:27 in a Ben 19:27 no, Mike 19:27 way. Ben 19:27 it was, like, they were, just honestly, just stick checkmate liberals at the end of it. yeah, there's like an over-correction, almost, on Eurovision's end, of just like, just sort of like, just constantly just answering, well, actually, I don't see color. And it's like, I just asked if you wanted mayonnaise on your sandwich. Mike 19:43 Oh, yeah, exactly. Ben 19:47 It's just like, that was- that was not the question that- thank you for- thank you for letting me know, that's great, but Mike 19:51 Yeah. Ben 19:51 also, that's not- that's not what we're discussing. That was just sort of assumed. Anyways, so, semi-final two. Mike 19:56 Yes. Ben 19:57 For me, one of the big things in my notes with this one is, I feel like everybody was making up for kind of mid-songs with so much staging. thought that Switzerland's song was fine, and it didn't need, like, the whole little jungle gym on the stage. Mike 20:13 I am sad about Switzerland. I thought that was a great performance. Yeah, the song's really good, and they, they finished ninth with the jury, they finished ninth with the televote, but their combined score was 14 points less than Cyprus, and, uh, yeah, they missed the cut. It was like, oh, no, so- Ben 20:33 I was like, that was not a good vocal from Cyprus. I was Mike 20:37 No. Ben 20:37 actively concerned about what she would sound like yesterday. Mike 20:40 Yeah, yeah, like, I, I think she gave a better performance in the grand final, but, yeah, I mean, this is one of those things about Eurovision where it's just like, it is a marathon, it is not a sprint, I don't think this is a knock on her singing ability. Like, I think if she were, like, completely fresh, and, like, if you ask her to sing this two weeks from now, I think it'll sound great, or at least it'll sound closer to the studio version, but I think this may have just been, it was the end of a very long week, and, uh, she was also at a disadvantage being in the second semifinal because there's no vocal rest Ben 21:14 Uh, but let's see, like, who else had kind of a lot going on staging-wise? Mike 21:19 Uh, Australia had all the things, Ben 21:22 Just, like, the last 20 seconds of Australia is just somebody in the control room pressing every possible Mike 21:26 like, Ben 21:27 button. Mike 21:27 mm-hmm. Ben 21:27 Just, like, raise her out of the piano and drop the spark curtain, and here's Mike 21:31 Yep. Ben 21:31 some explosions, and Mike 21:32 Yep. Ben 21:32 here's, here's Mike 21:33 Wind Ben 21:33 this, Mike 21:33 machine? Ben 21:34 and... Mike 21:34 Yep. Ben 21:35 Yeah. Mike 21:35 Uh, effective use of wind machine? Ben 21:36 Yeah. Mike 21:37 Yeah. And, uh, yeah, and just, like, props everywhere, like, giant piano. Uh, you could see the steps to get to the top of the piano next to the piano. It's just like, oof, yeah. The stage crew, they were working this Ben 21:49 They Mike 21:49 year, Ben 21:50 were... Mike 21:50 so... Ben 21:51 Like, just, like, because, like, the first half of the song, non of the props would be there, and then here are all of the props, and now they're gone again. It's just like, they got their money. Armenia. was one where I had not heard the song before this week, Mike 22:04 Mm-hmm. Ben 22:04 and I was looking at it lyrically after it did not go through, and was just like, I don't know how this song exists without this performance. It's like, it feels like it was very built around this, and that's not a good recipe for a song. Also, like, I didn't love this staging, because I'm like, okay, you've built an elevator on stage. That means, like, everybody in the arena can't see it. Mike 22:23 I was impressed with how they were able to get all of the elements moved around without really being detected. Like, I was surprised by the, like, wall of boxes that he crashes through towards the end of the performance. Be like, oh, wow, they, how did they film that in a way where you don't see those boxes before it actually happens? And yeah, like that one... I respect the ideas that were happening there, I just, I don't think it was a fully baked. Ben 22:50 it felt like it was derived from, again, this is what the stage performance is going to look like, and it's going to be so cool, and his jacket's going to have sticky notes all over it, because he's tired of being in the office. And then that was sort of the end of the thought. Mike 23:01 Yeah. I don't know, that is kind of one of my favorite micro-genres of music, is, like, songs about, like, the drudgery of the 9 to 5 from people who are just like, do you? Work Ben 23:11 Have Mike 23:11 a 9 Ben 23:12 you Mike 23:12 to 5? Ben 23:13 actually Mike 23:13 Yeah. Ben 23:13 temped in an office? Mike 23:14 Yeah, like, I think of, like, Janet Jackson's escapade, where it's just like, when, when was the last time that you, like, did a coffee run for, like, the secretary pool? Oh, you know? Ben 23:25 Ah, looking at what made it through, I think for the most part, I agree with things. Again, I would love Switzerland over Cyprus. That is sort of, that was, like, one of the places I got things wrong in trying to figure out what is going to go through. Mike 23:38 Mm-hmm. Ben 23:38 And Cyprus had a pretty sizable lead over Switzerland. They were 14 points ahead between 10th and 11 places. There is a big point drop to 12th place with second semifinal. It's just like, you are, you then draw, it's like, Luxembourg was 12th, and they had 60 points. That is 48 points below what Switzerland Mike 23:58 just... Ben 23:58 like, that one was just doing all of stages, just, like, all of the in-camera effects. Mike 24:03 I don't know, I think also Luxembourg, like, they had to kind of navigate the plagiarism accusations early on. And I don't know how much of that, like, actually carries weight, but I think it impacts how the fandom is talking about it and just, like, the general word of mouth. But, yeah, that was another one where it's like, this doesn't feel particularly modern, and it did kind of reach a point where it just seemed like she was more wandering around the stage than moving with intention. Ben 24:31 Yeah, and I think that is always... Like, that happens for at least one entry every year where it's like, oh, you thought that you could just sort of figure it out in the room in terms of the movement. It's like, no, you need to have a little bit more of a plan. Mike 24:44 Yeah. Yeah, so after Luxembourg, there was Armenia and Latvia. I really like Latvia's performance. I understand why it wouldn't necessarily click with audiences, because it is, like, pretty, like, heavy ballad. But, Ben 24:57 Mm-hmm. Mike 24:58 yeah, it was using the same staging from Supernova, which I thought was effective. But, again, it's a lot of in-camera effects with the, like, cyclone of broken glass. I appreciate this is Latvia's entry, Ben 25:12 Mm-hmm. Mike 25:12 but understand why it didn't Ben 25:13 It Mike 25:13 click Ben 25:13 is, yeah, it's pretty, but just sort of, yeah, like, the staging is pretty static. Mike 25:18 with it. Mm-hmm. Ben 25:18 I am a little burnt out, just because we've, I think we saw it a few places in national finals this year and just in general of just sort of singer with a silhouette that is their younger self. it's a trope that we have seen, particularly in the last couple years. I'm saying, yeah, I'm not sure this is, I'm, it's just, like, there's nothing fresh here. Mike 25:36 Yeah, yeah, and that was one element that I think changed a little bit from Supernova, where it was a little bit more apparent in Supernova that the shadow was an animation or, like, not quite, like, there was going to be a turn. And they kind of got rid of that well, it's kind of less of a cool effect. Ben 25:57 Mm-hmm. Mike 25:57 Like, it's, it kind of takes away the element of shadowboxing in a way. But, Ben 26:02 Yeah. Mike 26:03 yeah, and then, like, the other effect that was also kind of prevalent in national finals was, like, the cyclone of something. Ben 26:10 Yeah. Mike 26:11 Effect, which Malta got rid of, which I think was a good choice. It Ben 26:15 was smart. Mike 26:16 Yeah, like, originally had it with the rose petals. But, yeah, you kept describing it as, like, it looking like it was getting filmed inside a screened-in gazebo, which I agree with that Ben 26:29 Yeah, Mike 26:29 assessment. Ben 26:29 like, no, they, like, like, I understand that it's technically cool that these screens are so transparent that you don't really notice them. But when you're outside of the gazebo, it's all I can notice is that, like, if you've ever tried to take a photo through a screened-in window. Mike 26:41 Mm-hmm. Ben 26:42 The camera picks up on the grid. Mike 26:43 Yep, yeah, yeah, there was a lot of zebra-ing going on with that one, Ben 26:47 with, one more thing to call out with semi-final two,placing dead last in the semi and just overall Azerbaijan. Mike 26:54 Mm-hmm. Ben 26:56 jury, zero points from the televote. Oof. Mike 27:00 Yeah, Ben 27:01 I had seen some level of, we think this song was written by AI. Discourse Mike 27:07 Oh, really? Ben 27:08 happening about this one? Yeah, just because apparently the songwriter, their YouTube channel is just like, I wrote this song with AI Mike 27:13 Hmm. Ben 27:14 for other stuff in their there's nothing to really hang on that song. It's just like, there's not, there's nothing to grab onto. Mike 27:22 Yeah, I mean, like, even as vocals go, it was kind of middle of the road. And just knowing that, like, previous Azerbaijan entries, when it comes to vocals, it's like, no, I know you've got some belters out there. And, like, I didn't hate the song as much as, like, a lot of people did. But yeah, like, there was nothing particularly special about it. And, like, especially in this semifinal. Like, this was a really stacked semifinal. Ben 27:51 Yes, this was a stacked semifinal. You have to be better than five other songs. And I don't think Azerbaijan's song was better than five other songs in the semi. Mike 28:00 No. And the rest of Europe agrees with you. Ben 28:03 Yes. Mike 28:04 All Ben 28:07 right. So between the semis and the grand final, we had the Marcel Besançon Awards. So the media award is voted on by the accredited media and press during the event. That one went to Australia. The artistic award is presented to the best artists as voted on by the commentators. Uh, so that went to Bulgaria. Uh, and that maybe feels like an interest, like a, like, Bulgaria was getting, like, the audience, like, the, the audience, uh, pre-poll Mike 28:35 Mm-hmm. Ben 28:36 that ESC Insight does, which is an exit poll, and that was, that won the semi-final two exit polls, just, like, the signs were there. Mike 28:41 Yeah. Ben 28:42 Uh, ------ The Grand Final ------ 28:42 Ben 28:42 and then, uh, the composer award for the Besest Sol Awards this year, uh, is the participating composers, and that went to Denmark. Uh, and then we had the grand final. is your stomach supposed to be in knots for the entirety of the jury sequence? Mike 28:56 Yeah. I, I, yeah, it kind of a grab bag. Like, it really felt like it was a contest, uh, Ben 29:06 Mm-hmm. Mike 29:07 of the 25 participating countries, uh, in, in the grand final, 18 of them received a 12. Um, Bulgaria and Poland, they each earned four 12s, and that was the most that any country earned, uh, which is a huge change from the last couple of years. Like, the, the last, the last two winners, or, no, sorry, the last three winners were all beloved by the jury. yeah, the fact that it was just, like, spread out so much, it's like, that was kind of my thought going into the voting sequence, which is like, oh, man, all of the radio people that are on the juries, they're going to make this really weird, because the stuff that, like, has been talked about the most in the fandom, I don't necessarily think of as being radio-friendly, and the stuff that, Ben 29:50 mm-hmm, Mike 29:51 super radio-friendly, not really what the fandom's talking about. So, yeah, the fact that, like, Bulgaria and Poland were, did extremely well, it's like, hmm, yeah, that, that kind of tracks in my mind. Ben 30:05 Mm-hmm. Yeah, no, like, I, like, I wasn't surprised by what was sort of ending up near the top, but also, like, the level of spread was both delightful to see, and also as somebody who has been paying attention to some of the scoring issues from the last year, few years. Extremely stressful. Mike 30:24 Yeah, like, you're just kind of noticing, like, what the score gap is, and be like, okay, what sort of televote is needed here, and is the televote going to come through? Like, what, what is going to happen? And just, like, trying to game it out. And the fact that there's only 35 countries, there's not a ton of points to go around, even though Ben 30:41 Mm-hmm. Mike 30:41 there's a lot of points to go around. Ben 30:42 Yes. the two things that were useful for me, uh, during the stressful portion of the evening, uh, were you had sort of posted from our Blue Sky to unclench your jaw every three to four songs. Mike 30:53 Mm-hmm. Ben 30:53 Uh, I was literally standing up from my couch and doing a big stretch, Mike 30:57 Yep. Ben 30:59 and Mike 30:59 It's Ben 30:59 that was Mike 31:00 just good Ben 31:00 useful. Mike 31:00 advice in general. Four-hour show. Ben 31:03 Uh, I am still gonna be, uh, reaching out to my massage guy to, to take care of some other knots. Mike 31:08 Uh-huh, yeah. Ben 31:11 Uh, but then also just, like, during the, really long interval, uh, just started making a spreadsheet. Mike 31:18 Oh, really? Yeah. Ben 31:19 Oh, yeah, I'm just like, you know what I should do with this Nervous Night Energy is I should make a spreadsheet so that I can have, uh, numbers. Ready to go when the televote starts. Mike 31:27 Hmm. Ben 31:28 uh, Mike 31:29 That, Ben 31:29 and that was, that was useful. Mike 31:30 Yeah, I don't know. That kind of feels like cheating, but at the same time, like, like, just in terms of how engagement changed this year, like, we weren't doing a Eurovision party this year. Ben 31:42 Yeah, same. It's just like, I'm, I was riding this out solo. Mike 31:44 Yeah, yeah, like, uh, I was watching with my husband, uh, had a giant bowl of Sun Chips, uh, got some Italian lemon ice flavored. Like, it's Ben 31:55 Yeah, Mike 31:55 like, Ben 31:56 like, I had a couple friends who were texting me because they were watching from their, where they were watching. Mike 32:00 mm-hmm. Ben 32:01 Uh, like, my, my level of catering was, uh, one medium thin crust pepperoni pizza because, haha, the UK! Uh, Mike 32:10 There Ben 32:10 and... Mike 32:10 we go. Ben 32:12 Uh, and then, and then, like, a box of Lankaro, uh, just because Finland. Mike 32:16 Mm-hmm. Ben 32:17 Uh, and, end of list. Mike 32:19 Yeah, yeah, like, the Sun Chips were because they were on sale, so... Yeah, Ben 32:25 Levels of engagement unseen by the Eurowet podcast. Mike 32:28 yeah, Ben 32:28 Um, Uh, no, no point, which is nice from the jury. Mike 32:32 mm-hmm. Ben 32:32 Uh, but, like, it was looking real dodgy for, uh, Li, which I did not like. I liked their performance a lot. Uh, Lion Sika is neat, and I'm glad he had the, I'm glad he got this global stage. Mike 32:44 Absolutely. Uh, yeah, he was, like, giving off such Grace Jones energy. I don't know if that was his intention, but, uh, I, I saw her in concert, uh, last summer, and I was like, oh, this would have fit in perfectly, uh, except for the, like, really, that effect of the collapsing costume. That was really well executed. I'm glad that they were able to get that to work. Ben 33:08 Yeah, yeah. Uh, and then, uh, Sweden was sitting at zero points for a while. Mike 33:14 Mm-hmm. Yeah. Like, it was just like, oh, this is really surprising, and, like, I, I just could not imagine Sweden getting a nil point. Like, I, I didn't hate their song. It was just, as you said, it was by the numbers. Ben 33:30 Yeah, no, like, I, again, like, it is an interesting referendum on what Sweden has been doing the last few years, and I look forward to seeing how, how Melfast responds. Mike 33:38 Mm-hmm. Yeah, uh, at, at the end of the voting, though, uh, Austria and UK, uh, were tied at the bottom with one point, uh, but thank you to Luxembourg and Ukraine for those single points. Uh, yeah, uh, I was reading some posts, like, after the fact, and I think it was, uh, 12 points, uh, pointed out that this is the first time since 2006 that, uh, a country finished with one point, um, I, I guess we'll, spoiler for what happened with the televote, but. Ben 34:11 Also, like, I, I watched the UK performance. I, like, I did, I did not think that, like, a boatload of points from the jury was coming their way. Mike 34:19 No, no, like, I think the song works in the sense that if this came out in, like, or 83, like, right at the height of New Wave, it would have been, like, yeah, just, like, oh, where was this era of Eurovision? In 2026, not so much. Ben 34:44 No, it's just, like, I, I like the idea of, yeah, let's get somebody who builds their own modular synth on that stage. Hell yeah. Full support. Full cosign from me. Um, unfortunately, uh, it is a British person who thinks that they are, who thinks that they are charming. It's just, like, did not like him in the green room. I liked some of the ideas of the staging, but there were not enough of them there. Mike 35:06 Like, enough of them in terms of people, or in terms of ideas? Ben 35:11 I liked the idea of the computer monitor dancers. It's just like, 'Okay, yeah, let's lean into it. Let's lean into, lik, his whole, kind of, like, again, kitbashing, big modular stance, lots of switches and buttons, sure, let's do that.' Mike 35:24 Hmm. Ben 35:24 But, yeah, just, like, it all didn't come together for me. Uh, it's trying a little too hard to be cheeky. Mike 35:30 I didn't understand why there were so many tables. I know there was that, like, I think it's in the second verse where there's, like, creating the pathway with them, but it's just like, well, you could just do something else. I don't know. Like, I feel, like, the elements of, like, why you get him, like, the, like, creating your own instruments out of Furbies and stuff, I don't really think that came across. There was, like, the keyboard that was hidden underneath that one table, but it just kind of looked like a standard keyboard. Uh, like, it didn't have all of the, like, creative flair that his other projects had. Ben 36:05 Yeah, it was just like, it feels like this is, like, the second year in a row where the UK has picked kind of, like, who has made, like, an interesting choice with the artists. It's like, I would, 'cause, like, remember Monday, uh, for what, you know, for all that they ended up doing, uh, was an interesting choice. It was a solid strategy. These are people who work on the West End. They have good voices. They can sing a song well. Mike 36:26 Mhm. Ben 36:26 Uh, in this case, we have, we have this guy. He builds interesting instruments out of stuff. We have then taken both of these artists and locked them in a room with Eurovision songwriters to write a quote unquote Eurovision song, and that is where it has gone off the rails. Mike 36:38 Yeah, yeah, cause, and like, yeah, he builds his own instruments, but Eurovision doesn't really have live instrumentation. Uh, some exceptions happening this year, but like, that's just kind of the thing. Like, Ben 36:52 just... Mike 36:52 it's Ben 36:52 Also, the UK is not going to, is not going to petition for months to let him play his Furby organ live. Mike 36:58 Yeah, yeah. I know. Ben 37:02 They, they, it's just like, they don't have the range. but yeah, it's just like, that was just like, okay, yeah, this one's, this one's not going to go anywhere with the jury. I don't think he's going to get the tell of it, and we will come around to that later. Uh, uh, but anyways, top three with the jury at the end of, of everything there. Bulgaria, which did feel like a surprise to me, but on the other hand, the big thing with the juries this year is that there are two additional members to every jury, and they are, and they are young people. Mike 37:25 Mm-hmm. Ben 37:26 Uh, so hey, look at that contemporary song, an then also you have all the radio people. The radio people love a contemporary song they can play all summer. Mike 37:32 Mm-hmm. Ben 37:33 you know, there's interesting stuff going on with this song, composition-wise. There's enough for, like, the people who are supposed to evaluate this as a piece of music to, to latch on to. Mike 37:40 Yeah. And, like, just looking at it from a performance perspective, like, that is an incredibly physical performance, and it was effortless Ben 37:47 group. Mike 37:48 for Ben 37:48 Physical, Mike 37:48 the Ben 37:48 she Mike 37:49 entire Ben 37:49 sounds great. Mike 37:49 Yeah, yeah. Ben 37:51 Australia. Again, that one feels like Eurovision bait. Like, of course, that is the one that was good with, that was doing well with the juries. Like, that composition is maybe not the freshest compared to something like Bangaranga. Mike 38:02 Mm-hmm. Ben 38:02 Uh, but just, like, a lot of very solid Eurovision, sung very well. Mike 38:06 Yeah. Ben 38:07 Uh. Mike 38:08 Were you familiar with Delta Goodrum before? Ben 38:11 No. Mike 38:11 She was announced? Okay. Ben 38:12 No, and, like, I, I, like, there was never, like, a good moment for me to sometime in the middle of this Eurovision season to just, like, log on to our, to log on to the show's Blue Sky and just type in all lowercase, okay, I'll bite. What's a Delta Goodrum? Mike 38:25 Yeah. Yeah, I have to wonder if maybe it's kind of like a Kylie thing where, like, she's just huge everywhere else and then just a complete mystery in the U. S. like, I mean, Kylie's come around, but, uh, yeah, like, it's just like, everybody was just so excited about her. It's like, I don't Ben 38:42 person Mike 38:42 know who Ben 38:43 is. It's Mike 38:43 this Ben 38:43 just like, I Mike 38:43 this Ben 38:43 don't know Mike 38:44 person Ben 38:44 who Mike 38:44 is. Yeah. Ben 38:44 At this point, I afraid to ask. Mike 38:45 Yeah. Yeah. It's just like, no, I, I totally did the reading last night, you know? Like, Ben 38:52 and then placing third, Denmark, which, like, I, like, the, the composition on that was good. Like, I understood, like, why the, the juries really responded to it. Mike 38:59 Yeah. Yeah. And that was another one that was a really solid performance. I, I think the, really, I think that what hurt it was it, what, it's what opened up the grand final, um, Ben 39:10 Yeah. Mike 39:10 which, like, very strong opener. Like, everybody loves the sex terrarium. Um, but, uh, yeah, I think it was just like, okay. Like, there are 24 other songs that are happening after this one, including like one that is going to be super controversial. Um, and then like Bangaranga, which is like occupying the same, like, a pop space. So, bad luck on the draw. Ben 39:35 Mhm. Uh, and then, uh, before we go over the televote, I did love that we got, like, that, that, like, TRM, Moldova's, uh, TV network, released a press release this morning of just being like, hi, Romania, sorry, sorry the views of the jury, like, we know what happened to the jury, like, they don't, they don't represent management, please don't be mad at us, Mike 39:50 Yeah. Ben 39:50 please. Mike 39:53 Yeah, like, that was kind of surprising, just looking at us, like, oh, wow, the jury only gave it three points, Ben 39:57 Just, Mike 39:57 like. Ben 39:58 like, just, like, directly making eye contact with Romania and make, and just, like, heart hands. Mike 40:01 Yeah, yeah. Their, their televote did give 12 points to Romania, um, and, uh, yeah, I guess we can get into the, uh, televote piece of it. Uh, Bulgaria did very well in the televote as well, uh, earning 10 12s, uh, including the rest of the world vote. Um, and there was a lot of love happening in the televote as well. 13 out of the 25, competitors received a 12, so that, that's a pretty good spread. Um, Bulgaria and Romania received points from every country, um, and Bulgaria's lowest score was four points from Ukraine. Uh, otherwise it was a lot of 12s, a lot of 10s, a lot of 8s. Ben 40:41 that was lovely to see, just, like, both how many nations got something. Mike 40:45 Mm-hmm. Ben 40:45 Uh, and then also, just, like, uh, Bulgaria topping the list instead of who I expected to top the list. Uh, but, yeah, uh, we'll leave it there. Uh, three nations got no point from the televote, I did appreciate the desperation with which the hosts were sort of stressing, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, that doesn't mean that nobody voted for you. Mike 41:08 yeah. Yeah. Ben 41:09 Like, Mike 41:09 And I think, I think that is a good thing to remind people about, because you could be every country's 11th place. That is the same as being every country's 26th place, Ben 41:19 place. Mike 41:19 or 25th Ben 41:20 Exactly. Mike 41:22 I guess I'm a little surprised about Belgium. I thought they would have gotten, like, one or two points, because it did, like, well, I don't know, I guess they were saved by the jury in the semifinals, so maybe I shouldn't be so surprised about that. know. Belgium turned out so much better than I was expecting it to. Like, when I heard the studio track for this, it was like, oh, this sounds modern, but I have no idea how they're going to stage this with a live vocal. And I, I, I think they turned it out. Ben 41:46 Uh, and then we have the other two new points, uh, the UK, uh, just, like, the, the headline honestly writes itself, Look, Mom, No Points. Mike 41:53 Yeah. Ben 41:54 Uh, and then, uh, Germany, I feel like my, my proudest moment all week was like, We're having slow-mo to house. Mike 42:01 Yea. Ben 42:03 It was a song. Mike 42:04 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, props for not rhyming fire with desire. Um, I'm, I'm surprised that EBU allowed that to happen, but, uh, Yeah, like, it was just such a, it really kind of felt like a throwback in terms of staging. Like, it Ben 42:20 Mm-hmm. Mike 42:20 felt, But this is just so, like, Fuego, Ben 42:24 it, it really just highlighted for me, like, we have moved past the need for Fuego. Mike 42:27 Yeah. Which is almost 10 years ago at this point, which is, uh, distressing to think Yes. My mortality aside, uh, let's see, let's, uh, Lithuania, um, they got 12 points. Uh, they came from Latvia. That was all of their points. I was honestly bracing for Lithuania to get Ben 42:50 Yeah, Mike 42:50 zero. Ben 42:51 same. Mike 42:51 Um, but I'm glad, I'm glad they got something. Cause like, I, I was not expecting it to win. I, frankly, I was surprised that it got through the semifinals. Like, oh, is this going to click with audiences at all? I love this. Like, I just. well executed. I think Lion Sika is a treat. Um, like, and he's tried so many times to get to Eurovision and each performance in the Lithuanian process, uh, completely different each time. Um, and, uh, yeah, I, I'm, I'm glad this one finally clicked. Um, it was wild that this year it was Lion Sika versus Lolita Zero at, at one point. And yeah. So, um, yeah, hoping for Lolita Zero at, uh, at some future Ben 43:37 Yes. Mike 43:37 event, but. Ben 43:38 Yes. It's just like, hopefully Lion Sika walked so that Lolita Zero can fly. Mike 43:43 Yes. but ultimately the top three were Bulgaria, Romania, and Israel. Um, yeah. Romania. Ben 43:51 Oh my Mike 43:51 So Ben 43:51 gosh. Mike 43:52 fantastic. Ben 43:52 Romania was so good. Mike 43:54 Yeah. Like, I, I, I'm kind of sad that it didn't quite resonate with the jury. But I'm also, like, super glad that, like, as returning countries, that two of the top three were countries that were returning this year, and Moldova was up, uh. Ben 44:07 Moldova was up there. Mike 44:08 Up there as well, so, um, yeah, welcome back, you three, y'all figured stuff out, um, you're kind of making the case for relegation or, like, encouraging other countries to let me take us. take some time, see what's going on, what did you think about the new reveal method for the winner? they did the normal revealing of the televote scores, where they start at the bottom of the scoreboard and work their way up. And then when it gets to the final two, um, it'll, it's, uh, pretty much whoever won the jury versus whoever is currently at the top of the scoreboard. Um, and rather than having it be, like, the host announcing what the final, uh, point total was for the last contestant, they had this kind of, like, pointless Ben 44:54 I Mike 44:54 graph. Ben 44:54 was about to say, like, Pointless? Mike 44:55 pointless the show. Pointless the show, not pointless as in meaningless. But, uh, yeah, they just had this, like, rising graphic to see, like, if they pass, like, the watermark, uh, uh, for victory. what did you think of that? Ben 45:09 I mean, I thought it was, I thought it was a neat way to, to reveal the numbers. I mean, from my end, it was kind of pointless because I had a spreadsheet and I knew Mike 45:17 Mm-hmm. Ben 45:17 that mathematically, uh, it was not going to be Israel. it was just a matter of, like, how many points, uh, the second to last person got before, before we got to Bulgaria. But just, like, the number, like, the numbers were aligned. So, it was just a matter of, okay, now the world needs to know. Mike 45:34 I liked it because, um, they did get rid of the, uh, the way that they did the reveals for the semifinals last year where they Ben 45:42 Yeah, Mike 45:42 had. Ben 45:43 where it's, like, split screen. Mike 45:44 Yeah. Which, like, I'm kind of bummed. I thought it actually worked last year, but now that it's no longer just Televote, I can kind of understand why it's like, uh, that kind of is a chunky method when there's already, like, half. So, Ben 46:00 Yeah. Mike 46:00 um, yeah, like, if they ever go back to just Televote or, I don't know, just Drury, they could, they could maybe go back to that method. Um, but, yeah, I, I like that it wasn't just, like, announcing what the point total was and then forcing the audience to do, like, very quick arithmetic if they can hear. So, yeah. ------ Data Tidbits ------ 46:20 Ben 46:20 Yeah, that, that was, like, a nice, uh, like, again, like, the visual going along with the, the standard announcement was very nice. Mike 46:27 Mm-hmm. Ben 46:29 let's do some early data chat. this is less data and more fun fact. the same creative director was responsible both, for both the winning performance and the last place performance. Mike 46:38 Oh, wow. All right. Ben 46:40 Frederick Benka-Reedman, was involved in the staging for both Bulgaria and the UK. Mike 46:45 Oh, wow. Huh. Ben 46:46 So, it is not just about who you get to stage your thing. Mike 46:50 Right. Uh, at the same time, that's going to make it very difficult to generate quotes for, uh, next year's contest when. Ben 46:57 Ooh, yeah. Mike 46:57 Stage designers, like, well, I guess it can average out to this amount, uh, but maybe, maybe stress the Bulgaria Ben 47:04 Yeah, Mike 47:04 angle. Ben 47:04 yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, this is, this is introduced a couple different tiers in the, in his pricing structure. Like, okay, do you want to, do you have a UK budget or do you have a Bulgaria budget? Mike 47:13 Mm-hmm. Yeah. Ben 47:15 Surprisingly, the UK budget may have been more expensive. Mike 47:18 Yeah, well, yes. Ben 47:19 Who knows? Mike 47:20 Well, maybe, maybe able to calibrate. Where it's like, do you want to win Eurovision this year? Because I've, I've got, I've got pricing plans for, so, uh, if you just want to, like, make an appearance and be, like, high buy, like, here's what we can do. So, uh, Ben 47:34 this is the first time since 2017 that the winning entry has topped, both the jury and the tele-vote. Mike 47:39 Woo, yes. And, uh, it's the first tele-vote winner, uh, to actually win the contest in quite a while, too. So, uh, yeah, I believe Ukraine was the last one. Ben 47:50 like, another thing that occurs to me about Bongaranga is that, I have been saying for years that we want a party song, so it shouldn't surprise me that a party song finally broke through. Mike 47:58 Mhmm. Yeah, yeah, like, this one, like, just in terms of, like, the pop presence of I think you have to go as far back as Toy for something that is of, like, that beats per minute, you know? Ben 48:11 You have the code, but the code is different. Mike 48:13 Mhmm. Yeah, like, you're, you're not necessarily dancing to the code, or, Ben 48:18 yeah. Mike 48:19 Yeah, that, that one's more of a headbanger. Ben 48:20 Yeah, Mike 48:21 Anyway, Ben 48:21 you are, you are, you are dancing, yeah, you're, you're dancing to Bangaranga. Mike 48:24 yeah. Ben 48:24 there was a 173-point lead between first and second, which is the largest ever, I was surprised to Mike 48:30 Yeah. Ben 48:30 find. Mike 48:31 It was also interesting that, uh, they mentioned that during the show, where, uh, like, in the Professor Eurovision segment, uh, yeah, uh, like, they were talking about, like, how do you measure success at Eurovision? It's like, oh, God. Um, but, uh, one of the things that they mentioned was that Fairy Tail, uh, finished 169 points ahead of Is It True in 2009, which was the previous holder of that record. Ben 48:54 that was just, like, another Professor Eurovision segment that ended on, well, who's to say? It's like, what's the point of any of this? Mike 48:58 Yeah, yeah, it's, like, oh, God, like, it's been a while since I've been in the college classroom, and I know that higher education has been under a consistent attack, but, uh, this is how education's going right now. I'm not optimistic, so. Ben 49:12 this is the lowest finish for Sweden since 2021, and there are only two Swedish entries that have finished lower. that would be 2009's Lavoie, and 1992's, uh, entry from Kreister Bjorkman. Mike 49:23 Huh. Ben 49:24 So, here we sit, Bulgaria is the winner. Mike 49:26 Yes, uh, which, I don't know, were you expecting it at all? Ben 49:32 No. the limited way I was coming into this is, like, I hadn't really heard Bulgaria's song until, like, I saw, like, the 30-second clip of it, and I was just sort of, like, well, this isn't quite working for me, but people Mike 49:42 are Ben 49:43 excited about it. Mike 49:43 Yeah. Ben 49:44 Uh, and less, like, checking in on things like the Eurovision uh, odds, it's nowhere near the top of the odds. it's towards the bottom, nobody saw this, no bookie saw this coming. Mike 49:54 again, another, like, don't listen to the bookkeeper's piece of it, so. Ben 49:59 I mean, the bookkeepers are, seem to be very good at who is going to qualify. But very bad at who is going to win. And I think that is just sort of the eternal nature of Eurovision. It's like, it feels easy to figure out who's going to qualify. It feels very difficult to figure out exactly who's going to give their points to whom. Mike 50:16 Right, yeah. And, like, also, Until you know who is in the final, like, you could be ------ Looking Ahead to 2027 ------ 50:22 Mike 50:22 putting all of your money on somebody who ultimately doesn't qualify. Like, anybody who was betting on Switzerland taking it all, like, they, uh, yeah, they missed out. looking ahead to next year, Bulgaria's BNT, uh, has already committed to hosting, and there's already, like, three cities that have indicated interest. Um, but if you're kind of looking at the base criteria that Eurovision has for hosting, like, proximity to airports, a suitable venue, all that good stuff, there's really only two viable options, probably. So, uh, the capital, Sofia, um, and the coastal town, Burgas, whic both have indicated that they want to host. So, yeah, that'll be exciting and interesting, and, like, I've already, like, checking out, like, how does one get to, Bulgaria from Chicago? And, um, yeah, uh, personally rooting for Sofia over Burgas, uh, just in terms of travel time. Ben 51:14 Just, like, I did one preliminary search of, okay, so does Bulgaria have an arena indoors, with, with the requisite sort of ceilings and general audience capacity we have come to expect, and, like, it feels like Sofia. Mike 51:26 Yeah, yeah, like, but I, I appreciate that there is going to be a bidding process, because that's gonna force us to learn a little bit more. I think that's the other thing, where it's just, like, uh, we did our Bulgaria episode earlier this year, and I think we both kind of approached it with, just, like, oh, yeah, here's Bulgaria, they'll be at Eurovision, we're not expecting them to host next year, so we've already kind of, uh, we'll need to figure out what to do with our Welcome to Bulgaria segment, because we already kind of did it, so, yeah. Ben 51:54 Oh, I mean, we mostly focused on the corruption, I'm sure there's other things to cover. Mike 51:58 Oh, yeah, yeah, like, uh, the restaurant scene, or something, Ben 52:01 know. Mike 52:01 I don't out. Ben 52:01 Yeah, Mike 52:02 Uh, Ben 52:02 we'll, we'll figure but yeah, I very quickly, of after Eurovision wrapped up, was like, well, Bulgaria has won, and the EBU has learned nothing. I'm, I'm still there. like, during the show, uh, VRT, Belgium, like, the, the other network that Belgium, uh, switches having, uh, artist selection power to next year, has released a statement that they are asking for a clear framework for participation, an open debate, and a direct vote among EBU members. So far, we have received an insufficient response to this. Even during the semifinals this week, we received no signal that the EBU is hearing our concerns. Uh, so it's unlikely they're gonna participate if there's no movement on this. Mike 52:39 like, I had a feeling there was going to be problems, because they announced very early on that they weren't sending a commentary team to Vienna. Like, they Ben 52:48 Mm-hmm. Mike 52:48 handled all of their coverage remotely. They were airing documentaries before, each of the broadcasts, just kind of contextualizing, what is happening, with the contest, with Israel, with Gaza, and, they've been very vocal about this. like, Netherlands, uh, they also are waiting to make a decision, uh, with regards to how the EBU has or has not learned anything this year. they're waiting until the EBU, like, issues some sort of status report or provide some sort of update before they even make any sort of contest decision. Ben 53:22 Yep, uh, Spain posted a message right as the contest started, just sort of reiterating their position. Slovenia has been airing documentaries about Palestine all week instead of Eurovision. Uh, it feels like the five who boycotted are probably going to stay boycotting unless something changes, and they could get a couple additional members. Mike 53:41 there was also a New York Times investigation of what happened in 2025 that, uh, dropped at the beginning of Eurovision week. So, like, the news agencies are paying attention to what is Ben 53:53 New York Times piece is really good, particularly calling out what the Spanish vote looked like last Mike 53:58 happening. Ben 53:58 year. Mike 53:58 Mm-hmm. Ben 53:59 That, like, seeing that drop immediately, knowing that we had our Spain episode in the hopper, I'm like, this would have been great information a few days ago. Mike 54:05 Mm-hmm. Yeah. Ben 54:06 Uh, but just, like, the combo of that and then ESC Insight had a really good piece about the 10 vote limit. Mike 54:13 Mm-. Ben 54:13 Uh, and, uh, they kicked the tires on if it's, on how exploitable it is, and it turns out it's very exploitable. Mike 54:20 like, again, it's limited by payment method, not by device, and, it's very easy to generate email addresses, so. Ben 54:29 Like, I feel like the, the EBU has like, a very busy summer ahead from some of its member nations, I hope that there is some continued, continued dialogue about this, Mike 54:39 Yes. Ben 54:39 because I think that this is certainly not closed. Mike 54:42 and, and there's also going to be other budget issues as well, I mean, like, that things are getting even more expensive, and, like, Luxembourg, uh, they- need to chat with the government, uh, abo funding for continued participation. Like, the current deal that they have, uh, was for three years, uh, so 20, 24, 25, and this year, like, continued participation isn't necessarily tied to results, uh, which is good, because they did not qualify this year, uh, but they did qualify in 24 and 25. So, um, but, yeah, there's just a, a lot of conversations that are going to be happening, and, uh, yeah, it's going to be, like, is 35 going to be a high watermark for a while, Ben 55:25 Yeah, My question is just, like, I feel like if we, if there was a couple more nations that join the five from this year, uh, you're going to have to have another vote. a lot of, a lot of callback this season has been to how quickly the, the EBU ruled on Russia when they attacked Ukraine. Mike 55:43 Mm-hmm. Ben 55:44 Uh, and that was 10 nations coming together and said, we will boycott it unless this happens. Mike 55:48 Yeah. Ben 55:49 Uh, and we are halfway to that number. frankly, they should not have to get to that full 10 for this to come up again. I think they need to have a vote. Mike 55:56 Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I, I think it's going to be, uh, like, we're still waiting on, like, ratings data and, Ben 56:02 Uh, Mike 56:02 uh, other engagement data. Like, there's just, there's a, there's a lot of information that we just don't have yet as we're recording this the day after. Ben 56:10 mm-hmm. Mike 56:10 And, um, yeah. Ben 56:11 The little snippets that we're getting, though, are kind of telling, because, like, UK was down, like, apparently it is the lowest viewership since 2010. Mike 56:17 Oof. Yeah, yeah, there, there's been big drop-offs, uh, for a number of countries, particularly the ones that didn't qualify or, or did not participate. Um, but, yeah, like, I think viewership overall, like, it'll, it'll be interesting to see how the YouTube of it all, like, factors in. Ugh. Yeah. It'll be a very busy summer for the EDU. we will be keeping tabs on that, but also kind of in the background a little Ben 56:44 Yeah. Mike 56:44 bit. Ben 56:45 But also, uh, we deserve a break. Mike 56:47 Yes. So we launched this show back in January of 2018, and we haven't really done any sort of extended break since then. Um, and, yeah, there's just, like, a lot of housekeeping stuff that we need to take care of. And, uh, yeah, just, like, we, we need time. Ben 57:09 Yeah. It's just, like, what if we took some time to work on all of those projects that we keep adding to the Trello board or adding here and there, and actually did some stuff on them? Mike 57:19 Yes. So, um, we are not closing up shop, uh, but we are using the summer to take care of this behind-the-scenes stuff. I don't know, get our Google Plus page set up and our MySpace all good to go. Those are still around, right? Ben 57:34 I look forward to finding out what Zoop is. Mike 57:39 Yeah, it's just like, oh, it's an, like, engagement platform for creators. It's just like, I've, I've not heard one person talking about it, referencing it, saying, oh, check out our page on there. Like, I, I did just the most cursory thing. Like, is this something that we really need to pay attention to? And as far as I can tell, it's just like an NFT blockchain who's he, what's it? Ben 58:01 Ew. Mike 58:01 Yeah. Yeah, so that is not part of our summer plan. What is part? Ben 58:10 He's sticking with my engagement platform of choice, Zandwich. Mike 58:13 There we go. Um, but yeah, so what our plan is for the summer is we will still have episodes dropping more or less every other week on the main feed, but these will be unlocking a sample of our Patreon episodes from the last few years. Um, if you are, uh, a member of our Patreon, uh, either at the free level or the paid supporter level. Um, first of all, thank you. Um, we love, we love it. We love to see it. Um, we will continue to have our monthly newsletter, um, uh, to kind of keep tabs on what is happening over the summer as Bulgaria gets ready to host. Uh, and the, uh, bonus episodes for the paid supporters will continue happening. Our next one, uh, we'll be dropping next include, which it will be about the 1994 Eurovision Song Contest. Since rather than watching it in bits and pieces, like we did all of this season,we're watching the whole dang thing. Ben 59:07 What if we macro-dosed Mike 59:09 the Ben 59:09 1994 Contest? Mike 59:10 Yeah. Uh, and yeah, for that one, we'll be joined, uh, by, uh, former guest Ted Van Houten, uh, to just kind of chat about Ireland in the mid-90s. uh, we'll also begin our coverage for Eurovision Asia, uh, where, assuming that is full speed ahead, uh, they, they seemed to, they were really pushing Ben 59:31 The Mike 59:32 it to- Ben 59:32 video package, I think they're doing it. Mike 59:33 Yeah, yeah, and, uh, a couple of the selections have dates for when they're happening, so, uh, yeah, the earliest one will be happening in August, so, looking forward to that, question mark? Um, uh, but, yes, season 10 of the show will begin in earnest on Tuesday, September 1st, and, yeah, and hopefully we will have at least some of our projects done, uh, on the back end. And, and, yeah, looking forward to seeing how the next decade of this show gets going. Yikes, yikes, yikes. Oh! Ben 1:00:10 Where that ends with a zero I was not expecting. Pew, pew, pew! Mike 1:00:13 Yeah, uh, but I think it's also kind of cool, like, uh, our very first season, Portugal was hosting, it was the first time that they were hosting the contest, and now we have another country where it'll be the first time that they're hosting, Ben 1:00:26 It's Mike 1:00:26 so. Ben 1:00:26 like a brave new world. Mike 1:00:27 Yes, lovely full circle moment. Ben 1:00:33 That's going to do it for this episode of The Eurowhat. Thanks for listening. The Eurowhat podcast is hosted by Ben Smith, that's me, and Mike McComb. Mike 1:00:40 That's me. You can find our full nine-season archive of episodes on our website at eurowhat.com. We also have dozens of bonus episodes on our Patreon, which you can access for just five bucks a month by going through our website or visiting patreon.com slash eurowhat. Ben 1:00:58 Next time on The Eurowhat, we'll be unlocking our episode about Susan Sontag's seminal essay, Notes on Camp.