00:00:00 James Welcome everyone to the.net Maui podcast. We haven't done this in so long. We have no idea what we're doing. 00:00:06 Matt It's. 00:00:06 Matt Been over a year over a year. 00:00:08 James Been it's been a whole releaseof.net8anddown.net nine. I am one of your hosts, James Wilson. I'm with you, as always, Mr. Matt. Soak up and David or now, how's it going, gentlemen? 00:00:22 David Hello. Hello. Welcome to July 2024. 00:00:28 Matt Yeah, here we are. It's. I don't know. I'm glad to be back. So you can feel the awkwardness of us not knowing what to do anymore. We we had hit our stride. We were doing so well. And now we're talking over each other. 00:00:38 David And having the awkward pauses. I feel like it was just like one podcast. It was like, oh, I'm gonna be traveling and somebody else is gonna be traveling and then suddenly it's a year later. 00:00:40 Matt But. 00:00:48 David And we're like. 00:00:49 David But so much has happened. I mean, there's certainly plenty to talk. 00:00:52 James About yeah, I wanted to make sure we get us together now back in the day when we do this podcast, you know, Matt, who is fantastic. We'll put together like show notes and we put little names of, like, who's talking on what. We would never talk over each other. It's fantastic now. 00:01:09 James Like Matt and David actually, like look at who's talking where and make sure like we pause, we do a thing, but I'll run this through some like, Magical Adobe podcast thing. It's gonna sound amazing at the end of the day, but yeah, it is July. I can't believe it is 100 billion° here in the Pacific Northwest is fantastic. 00:01:26 James And we had Microsoft build and one of the largest developer events of the year, and there was some exciting news and around.net, Maui and everything sort of happened. You wanna break down the latest and greatest? David of of what happened? 00:01:41 David Yeah, sure. So I think the the most exciting news from this last build was I was not there. I mean, so that's the first first time, first time that's happened since I joined Microsoft in like was it 20/16/2017 some some time back then? 00:01:48 James Meet there. 00:01:57 David Uh, but we we just after build there's a little little bladed, but we shipped a new VS code extension GA for Net Maui. So we can talk a little bit more about what that entails and the features and then kind of the road map of that. We did have a wonderful Maui session that was recorded. 00:02:17 David And you can go check that out on YouTube. Maddie and I put that together and talked about just all the latest updates. 00:02:24 David Lots of momentum in the community. We see a ton of like 100 and 6000 and 70% more apps in the Google Play Store. Ohh, which is just one segment of you know, peopleusing.net, Maui. That's mostly consumer, although there are some business enterprise B2B type stuff in the in the Play Store as well. 00:02:44 David We don't have the same visibility into the Apple Store, so we don't quite know who's using Maui there, but a lot of it's the same because it's a cross-platform technology, right? So yeah, so we got a lot of great things going on there. I would say probably the. 00:02:58 David The hottest news? Because Beth Massey was working the booth and Maddie was there in person on the floor running the TikTok for for a a day and 1/2 or whatever she did interviewing people. But the feedback that we heard was people are building apps, which is like obvious but also exciting. 00:03:19 David You know, they were coming by the booth and when they wanted to talk about net.net, they were talking about building mobile apps, desktop apps, hybrid apps, and the hybrid session ended up being that the best Massey gave was like a 15 minute demo. 00:03:33 David Session ended up being the most watched attended of its kind at the whole conference, so that was really cool to hear. I'm sure Beth did an amazing job. I didn't get to see it because I wasn't there, but I think it is. I don't know if it's recorded, so I can't promise that, but those are those are kind of the highlights from Maui. 00:03:55 David And then, of course, we've had just tons of releases, 8 net 8 servicing releases every month, Nuggets as well as in Visual Studio and the the train for net nine has been really exciting. While.net eight has been mostly, if not exclusively bug fixes and you know, memory leak fixes and performance improvements. 00:04:15 David The net nine stuff has introduced Android asset packs. 00:04:19 David Has introduced new native AOT for the iOS platform, which includes a lot of trimming improvements in the core Maui SDK. If you if you were a Xamarin developer for a long time or early.net Maui developer, you are probably aware of that Maui and Xamarin was not fully AOT. 00:04:39 David Compatible. You couldn't trim the whole thing. 00:04:42 David And so now Maui is, with the help of our runtime team engineers that have been plugging away at the term ability of everything. And that goes all the way down into the Android and iOS SDK's. It's a deep cleaning kind of a a situation which you know, what is the end result of that? Your apps are faster and smaller. 00:05:02 David When you're using the AOT functionality that it comes along with the native AOT stuff on the iOS side is you can basically think of the old mono AOT or the previous generation mono AOT which everybody's using today. 00:05:18 David Is great, but this is a whole re envisioning of it and reimplementation of it, and so apps are like half the size much faster, which is extremely exciting on iOS. I'd love to see that come to Android as well, which is really where it's perhaps more needed, but in order to take the the one caution. 00:05:39 David As you may know is that in order to take full advantage of native AOT and NET 9. 00:05:44 David And you need to make sure that absolutely everything is trimmable in your application and so you will quickly find when you try to use it that that the output will tell you such and such API is not terminable such and such library is not compatible and so it's not something you can just use part of. You kind of have to do the whole. 00:06:05 David Thing. So there is quite a bit of work on developers parts to take advantage of it, but the upside of the advantage is significant. So I'm excited to see a lot of the the net nine stuff starting to roll out and I know we've got a preview that we're cooking up right now. Again, yeah, and yeah, so it's exciting stuff. 00:06:26 James I do want to get back some of the service releases and VS code stuff before that. Matt, how is your build? 00:06:32 Matt My build is actually great. I was there. 00:06:35 Matt Because I lived like a mile away from it, I did not get out. 00:06:36 David Yeah. Yeah. You're better than us. We get it, OK. 00:06:38 James Of it like you two, yeah. 00:06:40 James Yeah, worthy. 00:06:42 Matt Yeah, I I took public transportation there and back. So my watch, my total, my water taxi. Yep. Anyways, So what we did while we were there, my team with the help of some great helps with the from the product team was run a. 00:06:55 Matt Hey eye session. My joke that I was thinking of to appear here is I've been doing a lot of Molly, except without the M and EU tons of AI work. But we ran into AI without Maui. That's right. 00:07:09 Matt So we ran an AI session. When I say session, it's really a lab, hands on lab where people are able to run through from A to A to C and actually adding in a I to the eShop application. So where we took a Brownfield app and put AI into it and so that's why I think a lot of people are going to end up doing is you're not creating a brand new app. 00:07:30 Matt To put Aiden, you're going to be putting it into an existing one. So that's what we showed. And I'll put it in the show notes, because that workshop is available for everybody, and it's a quick one. Like I said, 45 minutes and the other one was on net aspire. Same deal, 45 minutes. Except this one was brand new because we wanted just to kind of. 00:07:50 Matt Showcase all the goodness of.net aspire from the get go and kind of reduce the cognitive load of kind of dealing with the. 00:07:57 Matt On an existing app and just show the brand new like service Discovery and the components of using like Redis cache and all that other stuff too and inspire. Oh I love it, it's so great. I mean you can just say you know and I want to get this other web service, call it, buy it a name and it's there and you just use it and it's, I don't know, the dashboard, have you all seen the dashboard of net aspire? 00:08:18 Matt It's was using it to debug and during the lab and it's just so amazing. So anyways, yeah, that's what I've been doing a. 00:08:27 James Lot of web work. That's awesome. Yeah, I think what's cool actually part from build. 00:08:33 James Is that Scott Hanselman and Mark Russinovich did a session on AI but it was infusing applications, you know with AI and they actually built a net Maui application. They primarily demoed it all on Windows. It was a net Maui application that they they basically turned into using like local models running on their. 00:08:53 James Machine to investigate Hanselman's desktop and do a desktop cleanup and prioritize things and use semantic kernel for all. 00:09:00 James The stuff and what was neat about it to the net aspire part of it is that the net aspire dashboard can be run standalone. So if you have any application including a Mali application, you can pipe in open telemetry via GRPC and the exporter and get all of your logging and all of your metrics and tracing information. 00:09:21 James From your dot Maui applications and we'll put a link to that. It's on Mark Rosanova's GitHub, but it's a whole application and shows that there and I know the engineering team is done. I always said if I don't know what they said publicly or shown, there's been some, there's been some things sprinkled on YouTube here and here of random demos of and and stand ups as well of some. 00:09:41 James Deeper integration for aspire, as you can imagine into the Maui ecosystem, nothing really talked about right now on the pot. But as it progresses, we'll definitely be sure to update you. But I agree, I loved build. I love seeing you know Maui sprinkle in to different places like in, in, in handsome man or. 00:09:58 James Which is session, but also just the feedback in the vibe from people was like really, really good. Like, I just really love the keynotes, I said on merge conflict. Plenty of time. I thought it was one of my favorite builds, even though I wasn't at it either, but it was one of my favorites and but we kind of meet my team kind of took the day off to actually watch stuff because when we're there and I'm sure Matt, you guys like when you're there. 00:10:19 James And then, you know, like when you're there. 00:10:21 James You'll get. See anything like you're you're probably stressed about your session, David. You like freaking out? And then we're running all over the place. Last year I was running. 00:10:29 James The podcast booth I. 00:10:30 James I didn't see my team. You know what I mean? Like, I was just all over the place actually sitting back and watching the online experience and taking it in was was neat from my perspective, so I enjoyed it. 00:10:40 David Yeah, absolutely. It's always. 00:10:42 David A big energy. 00:10:43 David Just because customers that you don't talk to and between you, we seek out customers, developers that talk to regularly, right, you know, I mean like that's the the lifeline of what we do as product owners and but they they come out of the woodwork at build those that you've never talked to you and walk up to you and tell you the amazing things they're building with the technology. 00:11:03 David That you're, you know, sweating over day in and day out. And it's just so cool. So you always leave those events feeling very energized. 00:11:13 David But like you said, yeah, it's it's hard to always watch them. So I I did enjoy being here in my office and being able to just tap into the live stream and absorb it without any distractions. And I will say I was very proud of some of our leadership and the presentations that they gave. And I was like. 00:11:33 David And I really like working at Microsoft. You know, I like. I like the people, and I like our mission. I feel very proud. This build more than others. 00:11:43 James I agree. I'm totally with you. I just. I I was. I was really enthralled by it. So let us know what you think in the comments. Were ever watch this on YouTube or on on your podcast app or just feel free to, you know, the message us let us know how your build went. If you have any highlights and and things like that. I do think one thing that's been fascinating is I've been working pretty close with. 00:12:03 James A lot of the teams, including David on the Donna 9 stuff, but you know, every month I think a big change that we talked about before was how Donnet Maui has these service releases that you mentioned, David. And it's been really fun to watch people upgrade. 00:12:18 James It's either seamless as far as you upgrade your.net SDK, you get some of the newer. 00:12:22 James Bits kind of. 00:12:23 James Like in the past, but you can also just assign a specific nugget version and kind of beyond the latest and greatest train and then that is ensured that no matter what SDK you pull down, no matter what people on your team have bits installed, they're getting the latest and greatest and in fact. 00:12:41 James Talking about the eShop application that you were talking about, Matt is the net Maui version of the eShop application is fully updated it uses. 00:12:52 James All the API services, all the new authentication uses GRPC for communication and some of the services of eShop, which is really cool and it uses a lot of the new features and we were using all the new service releases as you were rolling them out. Make it out to Michael Stones who did a lot of the updates on the application. I just reviewed stuff and he also and we also updated the ebook. 00:13:13 James Too. So the architecture guidance for enterprises all updated new PDF out version 2.0 on on 8.0 and all the bits. So I think, David, one question I have for you is is. 00:13:25 James What can developers sort of anticipate for these releases and aid and then now as it comes to like these Nuggets, what does the team focusing on for those and why should somebody opt into this new mechanism compared to what they're used to? 00:13:44 David Great question. So the the main focus very simply right now is collection view layout consistency and memory, memory leaks. So now you can lay those across the four platforms that we support and some platforms are going to get higher prioritization than others given use. 00:14:04 David And given where we are in the evolution from Xamarin to net, Maui, Xamarin is now out of support. Some folks have not yet made that transition with all of their applications, and so we want to make sure that we're giving priority to completing those transitions, which means that when an issue comes in or there is an issue that's highly impacting. 00:14:23 David An upgrade from Xamarin to net, we're more than likely going to put that higher up on our backlog. So from a topic standpoint, from a focus standpoint, those are the general areas. 00:14:35 David Now you know we've got customers that are paying for support and we've got, you know, other things that will arise and you know, jump the queue if you will. But you know that's those are the general guiding principles now. One of the things that the team has been working on is to create better visibility into when you're going to see stuff. 00:14:55 Hmm. 00:14:55 David Like you know, OK, you know, when am I going to see this particular? 00:14:59 David If you're not seeing a milestone on an issue, then it has not risen to the level of being considered in Sprint planning. Sprint planning happens on basically a monthly cadence and we look at the backlog of issues and we we based on the priorities I just mentioned as well as you know the. 00:15:19 David The the paid customer angle as well as the community engagement on issue, you know we're looking to see are you commenting on how many people are impacted by it? Does it have a regret a, does it have a work around and and how hard is it to? 00:15:33 David Ex. You know, really. You can think of all of these things as how how do you manage your own backlog for your own stuff? I mean, it's a lot of the same logic. It's pretty it's, it's pretty street, smart kind of stuff. But as as we do our Sprint planning, we are now taking the approach of, you know, priority zero priority. 00:15:40 James Yeah. 00:15:53 David One prior. 00:15:54 David Two umm, how do we manage each Sprint in terms of those things you're going to, you're going to basically stop a stop a release from going out if you can't get a P0 solved for that particular Sprint. 00:16:07 David Priority ones or the rest of the issues that are super important to get in, but you might ship without them and then priority twos and beyond are those that are going to be nice to have. So when you're looking at releases, look at those labels and look at the milestones in terms of what issues are going to be in. And we of course have project boards for all this sort of stuff. 00:16:27 David But as each each well, every single day, we have a nightly feed right where it's building off of the main branch and so you can put that feed into your nugget config and and pull from that as a new candidate release candidate for a service release is available. 00:16:47 David It will first appear on the nightly feed. 00:16:50 David And then once we go through our QA process, so the nightly feed, there's no QA, right? Well, well, it's automated QA. It's it's whatever tests are running on those releases that are automated. 00:17:03 David And then the next level beyond that is OK, we're going to prepare something to ship to nougat.org. And So what are the steps there? Well, we have scripted QA testing, manual tests as well as assessments that get done by our QA staff and and partners. So it's going to go through that process. And once they give it the green light. 00:17:26 David Then it will go to nugent.org and so how do you adopt that from nugget.org you simply use your nugget package manager. Go find the latest package. It's at that point not going to be marked as a preview. It's going to be a a GA release on nugent.org and you can add it to your project. That's going to add a package reference in your CS project just like any other nugget package that you've. 00:17:49 David Include it and that will override the default net install. 00:17:53 David Called Maui version, right? 00:17:55 David So if you're running 803 100.net and you've got the workload installed for it, that probably included, let's say it included eight dot 0.60 of Maui, but 8.0 dot 770 is the latest service release. It's going to override that. And then of course, you can always revert that. 00:18:18 David So there's a step beyond that. Once that release has been out in the wild for a bit on Nugget org, be it a week, be it two weeks. 00:18:25 David And nobody's flipped out and said that we just burned their app to the ground. Then then it gets promoted into Visual Studio releases and Visual Studio runs its releases on its own. 00:18:38 David Guidance. And so the process there is that the actual net SDK runtime and Maui workload gets inserted into a Visual Studio installer and when you go check the box inside of Visual Studio, that's actually pulling those those versions of things. 00:18:59 David So that's perhaps a longer answer than you wanted, but the exciting thing is, is that every release is getting tons of fixes. We're churning them out at A at a great pace. Do we do we wanna work faster and have more people etcetera for sure. 00:19:15 David Like, come on. We're greedy. We love this stuff. But the feedback we're hearing is that I was just catching up on e-mail today and and probably every single e-mail from a customer was saying. 00:19:27 David Your latest service releases are fixing critical issues in our projects or, you know, impactful issues in our projects and we're shipping our stuff to production. This is great. Keep it up, you know. 00:19:38 David That sort of thing. 00:19:40 David But one other thing I wanted to highlight is that we've seen a a wonderful uptick of community contributors in the Maui repo. And so it's exciting to see that people are not only engaging but able to, you know like contributing to open source, especially a project like Maui is not. 00:19:59 David Easy. Yeah. And so it's exciting to see people being successful with it and putting in quality stuff that makes it through the whole PR process. There's a lot of stuff that doesn't. And so pretty, pretty exciting momentum we've got going on, right. 00:20:14 James You know? Yeah, I like that because it does follow like to me, I always enjoyed the workload stuff, but it always felt like it's kind of like back in our Xamarin iOS and Android days. It was just like OK, the platform gets updated, things happen was and reforms came along and it was like it was tied to Nougat. You could you could pick and choose and you could tie your versions. It felt very much like, oh, this is how I. 00:20:35 James Use any library and now we're kind of back to that being able to ship that stuff over and over again. And it also helps fall in line with for example, like the Dom Maui Community Toolkit. 00:20:43 James Which, you know, Gerald's been doing a great job doing videos on and on his channel and the whole team opened the, the the community and also some folks at Microsoft and other companies been working on as well. I just put out a brand new camera view and a bunch of other great stuff, but now they could actually more fine tune that and pin it to versions of Nugget as well. And now what I like it. 00:21:04 James About it as. 00:21:05 James Someone that creates a lot of demos but also workshops that we have out there. It means we get to kind of pin it as well. So I get to pin it. So I I know what versions are going to work no matter what. And then if there is something I need to change then I can upgrade and go from there. And so that's been really nice to. 00:21:26 James As well, which is great. So keep it coming. Keep it going. I'm hearing the same thing on my side. I do want to get to another bullet point that you had, which is that Matt is by far the biggest Apple fan here. Big Mac OS user just absolutely can't live without it. Every other Windows device is just chucked out the window and he's like. 00:21:43 You know. 00:21:46 James Only Mac and that's it. Ah, exactly. I know. 00:21:47 Matt I'm using Windows right now, but yeah it's it's. 00:21:50 James Now. 00:21:51 James I think it's both Matt and I are on. Are you still on your project? Volterra? Yeah, yeah, I'm still on my project. Volterra. What do you what do you have? What are you running right now? Surface service. 00:22:00 David Laptop, MacBook well where I'm talking to you on a Dell desktop thing. 00:22:04 Hmm. 00:22:04 James I really I'm really wanting the new ARM Snapdragon thingy that's coming the dev kit that's coming out. 00:22:11 James I want all the new the, the, the copilot plus PC's but I'm gonna get that dev kit thing like 900 bucks. I just feel like I want all little magical. 00:22:19 James Dev. 00:22:19 James Kit sitting here. Yeah, but we all know that like Xamarin forms being retired, Visual Studio for Mac being retired Matt. 00:22:20 Alright. 00:22:29 James Hands on Impression, Visual Studio codefor.net, Maui Mac, Windows, Linux. We know you're a big Linux fan. 00:22:37 Matt Yep, Yep. 00:22:39 Matt It's been a long time coming and I think it kind of right now, I mean we, we've heard people talking about this, gosh, 2020, we just asking about it like can we be creating? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Can we create Xamarin apps with VS code? 00:22:50 James 25 years? Yep. 00:22:56 Matt And now you can create Maui apps with VS code and it's, I would say it's pretty easy to do as well and it's just a nice experience to be able to do that. And we all know that VS Mac is. 00:23:09 Matt No more. And so it's just a nice way to go and be able to have this first party experience and it's I'm a big fan of VS code myself. 00:23:21 Matt I like them both Visual Studio and VS code but. 00:23:25 Matt Yeah, my, my overall experience with it is and I'm going to say it's not in depth experience because you know AI, but it's it's a nice, you know what I I found it was a really nice quick getting started and it's a nice lightweight way way to go if you don't want to have the full. 00:23:45 Matt It's Big Brother of Visual Studio. 00:23:48 David Yeah, but you you mentioned AI, and I know you're referring to your other responsibilities, but but VS code plus copilot. For me it's just killer, man. It's amazing. So I know one of the other things we wanted to talk about was the the Maui UI July. 00:24:06 David So Matt Goldman put this together. It was originally, I think a Steven Davison thing, but it's like every every day potentially of the month somebody is putting out some Maui related content to showcase cool things you can do. And this month has been stellar. 00:24:24 David We're now on the eighth day of the month and I've seen at least 6-7 blog posts and and think and it's just been great. So I I did one and it was a bunch of collection view or list view based bindable layout things. So I think I had what eight different examples in the app. 00:24:43 David And those are just the ones I included and I keep noodling on and I'm ready to add a blazer hybrid one once I figure out CSS. But but yeah, the cool thing with it, Matt was that it was basically me VS code on a Mac. 00:24:59 David And and copilot and that was it. And it was, you know, enjoyed hot reload, which is which is new as of the GA release. It's of course all the Intellisense and and in XAML that has been added. It's copilot just kicking **** and and it's. 00:25:20 David You know, going back to the Nougat thing, I was flip flopping between net nine previewsand.net eight service releases, both public as well as on the nightly feeds and just bouncing around between them because, you know, we're fixing things, right? So it's like, OK, well, I know this is fixed over here. So I'm gonna go test it over there and. 00:25:39 David You know what's happening over here. And of course you want me as a product owner to be dog fooding. So congratulations, that's happening, which means that I'm also filing issues as I'm finding things in net nine, which is great because it's awesome, trims trimming stuff that I just mentioned previously. But it's like, oh, why is my? 00:25:57 David Relative binding not working anymore. You know, stuff like that. And I'm adopting new releases of the Community toolkit with some killer value converters and stuff like that in there that I didn't even know existed. Like I'm finding stuff in the community toolkit that I'm just like. 00:26:15 David Are you kidding me so fast to build to build this stuff now? And I had a I just had a great experience with it. So a couple of things, Matt, I don't know if you know this about the the VS code extension because there are a couple of other net extensions out there like Uno has some stuff. Maybe Avalonia has some stuff. I know that there's also the net meteor extension. 00:26:16 James Yeah. 00:26:35 David So one thing is that the C# dev Kit Maui extension uses the core debugger and not the soft mono debugger. This is a change and so you're going to get much better debug experience. You're going to get essentially the same that you would expect in Visual Studio. 00:26:57 David Whereas before it was, it was the open source mono debugger which was, you know, needed for the mobile scenarios, right? Like it was critical Xamarin kind of pioneered that stuff kind of I say kind of because I know there are other people involved and I don't want to, you know. 00:27:14 David Everybody should get credit and not know everybody's names. Yeah, but, but yeah, so it's it's got a a different debugger. So I think that's key. And then also of course it's got the built in hot reloads the net hot reload as well as the XAML hot reload both work. We got a new fire emoji. Who doesn't love another fire. 00:27:34 David Emoji and your and your your your editor, so there's some key core fundamental pieces in our extension that differentiate. 00:27:42 David Data from those other community based extensions that I think is makes the experience a bit more robust, but they get data data a little faster than we do. So I look forward to. 00:27:54 David Seeing what everybody else does. 00:27:56 Matt So let me change the subject just a tad. First, Dave, you don't give yourself enough credit for UI design work. All your stuff is just great and I've stolen so much of the stuff that you've you've written. It's. Yeah. So there's that. And 2nd, I just want to call out that the team has recently added a Maui front end to our C. 00:28:17 Matt AI. 00:28:17 Matt Search canonical example. Oh cool. So there's that now that where you can see and essentially what that search sample does is it lets you chat with your data. So like you can upload like your HR benefits plan and as like do I have vision? Can I get classes or whatever. So there's a Molly front end to that now and. 00:28:35 Matt Yeah, super cool. So it's not just web app, it is now a full on mobile app too. So I will put a link to that too so people can go see your mobile. 00:28:47 Matt Doing the generative AI thing. 00:28:49 James That's awesome. Yeah, I think it's fun in all these scenarios we work on so many different projects where we've always said it's like we're not just a mold developer desktop developer with that and we're kind of doing everything with C back and forth. 00:29:01 James And even for me, I'm on Windows most of the time, right? So Windows is my main driver and it is nice. I I pretty much let Visual Studio 2092 be the driver of all the install, right? The SDK, the workloads, all this. 00:29:13 James And then that means I just open up VS code, I just have the Maui extension with the C# dev kit and everything just works right. It's just boom here it is. It knows about all my emulators, it knows about my devices it and do all the things right. So it's a great experience of on my Windows machine popping back and forth between those two on the Mac side of things. I also have my on one Mac. 00:29:32 James As well, and you know the experience obviously on VS code is going to be very much the same. Now I will say this. I know I didn't have to. 00:29:41 James But I did. I just reformatted my Mac so I wanted a pure install experience and I did want to ask you David, if you received feedback. I've gotten some questions cause a lot of developers. 00:29:51 James That maybe are transitioning right now into VS code from Visual Studio for Mac. On the Mac, they're going through sort of a. 00:30:00 James Hey this thing installed a bunch of stuff. Does this thing know about that stuff? And and it pretty much does. But then I got I got into this state. 00:30:07 James Where I was. 00:30:07 James Like, OK, it's time to do the purge. And this is like a a few weeks. I said it's time to clean off this machine, get it to a state where Visual Studio for Mac. 00:30:19 James Is no longer there. 00:30:20 James There. 00:30:22 James Drag drop, recycle bin, go. But just because you drag and drop from the recycle bin doesn't mean that about five million other files aren't installed on your device, which, by the way, is just a Visual Studio for Mac thing that is like every application. 00:30:33 James Ever. 00:30:34 James Type of thing. I even uninstalled Xcode and then I went searching and about 50 gigs later of deleting. 00:30:42 James Stuff, yeah, just cause you drag it up. So I did. I just said, hey, listen, everything's on one drive. Let me just blow away and and I wanna do a video on clean install all this up because there's a lot of magic in there. But what are? What's your recommendation, David? I'm sure it's not too. 00:31:01 James Be like James and justice reset your machine. But what is that migration process for folks that are like, yeah, I'm. I'm moving over now 100% VS code. Any tips, tricks, highlights from from your side of things you've. 00:31:13 David Seen read read the documentation so so yeah, I mean I actually did the same exercise. 00:31:21 David A little further back than you, but I I want I I reformatted the whole M1 and and started literally from scratch and built it up with just VS code and yeah you got to install a bunch of dependencies that you don't really. 00:31:34 David All about the documentation does give you some very helpful hints in terms of OK, if you just run this net command with this special Android parameter, it will acquire for you the the SDK's from Google that it needs. Actually I think we use the open SDK Open JDK. 00:31:54 David For Minecraft, yeah, but it'll get the right versions and things like that. And of course you need Xcode if you're gonna do anything iOS or Mac related and things like that. There are just there. There are several things there that if you go step by step through the documentation, you'll. 00:31:54 James OK. 00:32:09 David Get it all? 00:32:11 David And I know that it works because when I tried it, it didn't work and we filed issues and we fixed the documentation which it was as simple as a missing quote on a command line thing. It's like I didn't know I needed quotes. So those are the key things. Also, don't be shy. I mean like, if you need some visual. 00:32:30 David Way to manage your Android emulators install Android studio. It's free. Yeah, it puts a couple of gig on your machine. Everything does. But you know, if you're looking at any other cross-platform, multi platform tool, you're gonna end up installing it and. 00:32:47 David Like like I mean it's it's kind of part and parcel in the past Visual Studio for Mac would have just tried to do everything for you. So you never had to leave the Visual Studio ecosystem and that's not the world that VS code lives in. So get comfortable with command line stuff, get comfortable with using. 00:33:07 David You know Xcode, if you have to use Xcode Android studio. If you have to use Android studio but you will be successful as long as you just. 00:33:14 David Follow follow the docs. 00:33:16 Yeah. 00:33:16 James Is that is that your recommendation is obviously we need that code installed cause you always need Xcode installed, but on the Android side is that your recommendation like I'm about to, I'm about to do this this weekend, so is your recommendation. I know I could follow the docs but like do you do you think like hey if I'm recommending it, hey, yeah, you can go through this and but but would you just say hey just install Android studio. 00:33:33 David I would just install Android studio because you're going to there. There's stuff there. You're going to want to have. OK, there's the the AD manager and Android Android virtual device management, but I I stumbled on that because somebody else used a DVD the other day and it didn't mean Android for personal device. And I was like what? 00:33:52 David Talking about, you're going to want that. You're going to want maybe some of the profiling tools you're going to probably want the SDK manager that's included so you can visually see what's available, and it does put things in a standard location so you don't really have to worry about it. Like if you go trying to acquire things through package managers. 00:34:12 David Like homebrew and stuff like that, unless you absolutely know that's going to be a path that's successful for you, just stick with the the first party tool from Google, which is the Android studio. 00:34:23 James Yeah, that makes some sense. I mean, like we've done with Xcode forever, it's always been installed managed it gets all the simulators all. 00:34:30 David Install Xcode through the App Store. 00:34:32 James No, that's that's my. That's my jam, not the. No, that's my that's that's what I do, yeah. 00:34:34 David No, no. 00:34:36 David No, no, not the App Store. No, that's that's a good way to get your machine into a bad state because it auto updates when you don't think it's going to auto update and so go go get the X Codes app or download directly from the developer dot Apple dot. 00:34:52 David Just don't do the Apple App. 00:34:55 James Store. There you go. Pro tips from David Orr. Now last question I have for you too on this is you know both Matt and I are rock and ARM devices, arms all the rage on our arm ones there are actually M1 arm emulators and I've got a lot of questions recently on the windows side of things. 00:35:13 James If Google has shipped out, if people are coming to me, they're. 00:35:17 James Hi, James. Where's my where's my Android emulator for armed devices? Technically, back in the day and still like Android actual devices are just ARM devices, right? And the emulators? Yeah, they're emulators, not simulators, right? Like on like iOS and the iPhone simulators are simulators, so they're using the machine where the Android emulators are the emulators, right? 00:35:38 James And we moved to X86 and the hyper V stuff. They got super fast which. 00:35:42 James Great. 00:35:43 James I use WA for a long time, but there's nothing like having a good old Android emulator up and running on the arm. Devices have have. Have you heard anything or recommendations? It can also just be a no besides go to Googles's issue tracker and plus one because I've seen a lot of. 00:35:59 James Every Android developer, we're talking flutter developers react Native developers, Android, Android developers on that is that is that the go to right now for ARM Windows? 00:36:07 David I think so. I I I'm not aware of one that is available for for Windows yet, but I do think that the subsystem for Android is still a a good option. 00:36:17 James Right. Yeah, it's there while it's there. 00:36:19 David Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. 00:36:21 David Love it while you. 00:36:22 James Can no or. Additionally, as I've always recommended, at least have about 18 different Android devices spattered around your desk. If you don't have one just plugged. I use visor still to reflect and just get it up and you know there's all sorts of. 00:36:34 David Stuff. So got to have a device. 00:36:35 James Got it. Oh, for sure. Gods, do I? It's my international phone. So you know, I'm an iPhone user now, but I I use a a service called Arlo which lets you do international esims, which is really convenient when you travel, cause on good old Mint mobile $15.00 a month. I don't get that international. So although now they actually have pretty good international service. 00:36:54 James But I'll tell you for like 7 bucks you can get like so many gigs of data on on the esim stuff Now, so good. Anyways, alright. So build stuff, check newservicereleasescheck.net nine goodness check VS code goodness UI July goodness, Maui Toolkit update. Anything else from either of you top of mind? Or do we go to Matt for the mystery? 00:37:15 James Topic that I. 00:37:16 James Have. 00:37:17 James In mind. 00:37:19 James No, we do. I think we do shed. 00:37:21 David I think I'll, I think we've I we've hogged enough time over here on my. 00:37:25 James Alright, Matt, what is your AI pick of the pod? 00:37:31 Matt Oh, the AI pick of the pod. 00:37:35 Matt 30 This I already told you about the search example. Right? Shoot. I already told you about our AI workshop. Yeah, could have used that. 00:37:38 James Yeah. 00:37:45 Matt But you know what? I'm going to talkaboutthe.net API documentation we used to nothaveany.net API docs period and when we did, you know what they had in it. 00:37:54 James Wow. 00:37:57 Matt David. 00:37:59 Matt James. 00:37:59 David Yeah. 00:38:00 Matt Pythonpythonandthe.net docs right? It was nobody's fault. We had to have something. I don't know. Anyways, they don't anymore. Now it's a full-fledged set of docs. It's actually really, really great. A lot of people worked on it just and they're coming along. They keep on evolving and anything that you would ever want to know about AI. 00:38:21 Matt Is almost there. Not everything because the field moves so quickly, but definitely for getting started. There's a ton of quick start so you can Azd up everything using the Azure developer CLI and like deploy your whole infrastructure, play around with it, then ACD down and it wipes it all out for you too. So yeah, that's my pick of the pod for. 00:38:42 Matt Azure AI or just AI stuff is the net docs for it. Yeah, learn all about AI using our favorite platform. 00:38:50 Matt Nice and our favorite language? C#. That's all we no, no, VB. 00:38:51 James I love. 00:38:55 James Well, now, now you'll be prepared every podcast for your AI. Pick the pod. Really appreciate it. Well, gentlemen, we are back. We are going to keep this podcast going. We're not gonna wait a whole another year. We promise. Let us know what topics. What guests you want to have on the pod. We'll make it happen. Just reach out to us wherever we're out on the Internet. 00:38:58 Matt Yeah. 00:39:14 James You'll find us. You know where we're at. That's gonna do it for this months.net Maui podcast. Until next time. Thanks for watching and listening. 00:39:24 Bye bye.