Daniel (00:00.565) And we're live again. Hey Dave, nice to see you. Dave (00:04.088) Hey Daniel, how you doing? Daniel (00:06.081) I'm pretty good. am exhausted, but I'm exhausted in a good way because I spent so much time working on a cool new thing. And I think I have to show it to you later. Dave (00:16.428) I'm looking forward to that. kind of know what it is already, listeners do not. So yeah, we'll drop that in a minute. Daniel (00:24.493) It's a secret. Dave (00:26.486) is secret. I've got secrets too Daniel. Daniel (00:28.073) It is a secret. You got yeah, the show notes say something about a secret thing. I'm I'm resolved to ask you about it. But shall we start the show first? Hang on, I got a Dave (00:32.831) Yeah Dave (00:41.538) Yeah. Daniel (00:44.849) Here we go. Hey, welcome to Waiting for a View, a show about the majestic indie developer lifestyle. Join your scintillating hosts to hear about a tiny slice of their thrilling lives. I'm Daniel, full frontal developer and data visualization enthusiast. And I'm here with Dave, HDMI enthusiast and rebranding consultant. Dave, nice to see you. Dave (01:08.814) Kia ora Daniel. I love it because in our notes for this, like we have the intro written in our notes and I just looked at it and for where you add our titles we've got just after our names in brackets, title title. So tell you and prompt you to come up with these things. And I'm looking and I'm going, has he just come up with those on the fly? Did that just come out of the ether or have you got a list? dang it. Daniel (01:31.853) You will never know. Dave (01:38.158) I like to think maybe you've got a spreadsheet somewhere with a load of these written out already because you're quicker off the draw than I would be. Daniel (01:48.653) There might be a notes document that, you know, when I'm just walking through the city and I'm HDMI enthusiast, that sounds kind of funny. Dave (02:01.358) I'm really not an HDMI enthusiast as it were, I'm definitely a... Connoisseur is the wrong word, what somebody who's hypercritical of... I'm an HDMI critic, I guess, the standard. Daniel (02:17.143) your HDMI uranium if you're hypocritical. Dave (02:20.982) yes. Now the amount of debugging. Daniel (02:26.977) Why are you, why are you hypercritical about HDMI though? Wanna start with that? Dave (02:31.178) I'll start with that. So it's not really about HDMI. HDMI is just a connection medium. I end up hypercritical about it because sometimes it has oddities in terms of handshaking with different TVs, projectors, devices. And of course, there's somebody who makes an app whose critical function is doing that with my video mixing app. Every now and again, causes me a tiny bit of annoyance. No, no, that's all to the side. What has actually happened for me in the last, only in the last sort of two or three days really, is that I've been on a big bug hunt, a massive big bug hunt. And yeah. Daniel (03:14.059) Yeah. I noticed because suddenly my phone beeps and it says, it's a message from Dave. And it's like, you have the iPhone 16, right? Can you take a USB-C to HDMI adapter and connect that thing to a HDMI display so I can debug something? And I was actually not in front of my computer. So I was like, okay, can hop into the Apple store tomorrow and tomorrow morning I can just sit in front of my Dave (03:20.707) Mm-hmm. Dave (03:34.05) Yes. Yep. Daniel (03:45.249) but I don't have even have a HDMI to USB-C or the other way around connector and then you're like, yeah, but you get the XDR, but the XDR only has like USB-C slash Thunderbolt. So I'm like, okay, I'm gonna try that. Go to bed and the next morning I wake up and I'm like, okay, I get up early because I wanna be at work a bit earlier in front of the display so I can give you some more time to debug. Dave (03:49.582) Mm-hmm. Dave (03:58.307) Yes. Dave (04:01.934) Mm-hmm. Dave (04:12.055) Yep. Daniel (04:12.725) And I open my phone, there's a message from you that says, never mind, never mind, I bought something. Dave (04:20.34) Yep. Yep. And it's, yeah, it was definitely a situation of, of that escalated quickly. let me, let me wind back to the, the, the root cause of this. So I, I had a support request message, came through, came through Instagram actually. And I would normally, you know, say, can you please hit the feedback button in the app and route it through the feedback service that I use. Plug here for feedback bulb. Brilliant service. But I entertain the message on Instagram because it seems like this person was having a bit of a rough time. The bug that they were experiencing is that they had a brand new iPhone 16 Pro. They discovered my app. So the phone is new to them. They're loving it because it's their new shiny. it's the top of the line model, as it were. It's got all the RAM, all of the specs. And they're like, yeah, your app is working great, except as soon as I connect to an external display through USB-C to HDMI, it starts running really choppy. I get these frame dropouts on the videos that are playing. so I run through my usual kind of support request questions, you know, like, Hey, give me your exact model number, your OS version. tell me a little bit more about the connector that you're connecting. What, you know, what sort is it? Does it have a brand? Cause a lot of the light, no name, really cheap USB-C to HDMI connectors. They can end up with issues where they're sort of buffering or compression artifacts or things every now and again, they're just. you end up with things that are just running at a substandard sort of spec, with a $10 dongle or whatever. So all of that is sort of checked out OK. And it turns out they actually do QA for some other sort of product and industry. So they gave me some really good feedback, some really good walkthrough of what they were doing. Dave (06:41.344) No good reason for it. We were testing with my demo contents. So that's that's locked down because that's the other thing that could be a variable in this, right? It's like, okay, are they running? I don't know. 8K video in progress through it. And it's just grinding to a halt. These things happen. These are the sort of things that occur in my support requests where I sort of talk somebody through it then they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. But you know, I've loaded this like massive great file through and now I'm wondering why the wheels are falling off. no good reason. Tried to debug on my side. I've, I've got, an iPad M2. So it's got USB-C. I had a iPhone 14 pro on lightning. I have connectors for all of this. I've got a TV, in this room, connect everything all together. Cannot reproduce it. And that's where I started messaging you. And, you know, that would have been a reasonable test even without it going to HDMI, it seemed to just be that it pretty certain that it was going to boil that down to when an external display was connected. Daniel (07:51.277) but only on a USB-C iPhone, is what you're Dave (07:54.508) On a USB iPhone Pro 16. So, okay, I'm going through the rest of my day. You've gone to sleep. Talk about this with my wife and I'm like, yeah. Actually wondering if this might be a time to think about the upgrade that I was thinking about. And she sort of reminds me of like, yep, well, we have an 18 year old son who would appreciate your hand me down. Daniel (07:58.338) Mm-hmm. Dave (08:22.818) and it is getting close to Christmas and this is probably as reasonable a time as any. Okay, I'll see if they've got them in stock. Daniel (08:33.325) Well if you're twisting my arm. Dave (08:35.168) And you can see where this goes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, and then yes, I've got them in stock. There's like one left in the store that's literally 15 minutes drive away from me. Daniel (08:46.988) it's beginning to look a lot like Christmas. Dave (08:49.378) This can be done, this can be done. Okay, if I order it now, it'll actually be available on my lunch break and I can drive over and grab it. And so that's exactly what happens. And then that evening, after I got everything installed, I was then able to debug, hook it up to Xcode. I was able to reproduce the error. Obviously, this is a whole round trip of buying a phone, making that decision, setting it all up. And then yeah, sort of that moment of truth of like, I don't even know if I want to see the bug or don't want to see the bug. Do you know what I mean? Because it's like, on the one hand, if I see the bug, I've got a bug to fix and this could be an absolute peg. And obviously if I don't see the bug, well, I know there's one lurking out there that this guy's clearly seeing, I had video evidence he was sending me showing me what it was doing. Daniel (09:25.153) Mm. Yeah. Dave (09:46.726) so I actually really wanted to see the bug. didn't want to go through all this and then not be able to solve this problem. and if you think about this, this is the ultimate kind of nerds night situation in the, I'm aware there's this issue. I've got this video evidence of it doing what it, what it was doing, where it was going really choppy. I've got a couple of hunches as to where in the stack it might be and what could be causing it and the outside hunch on why this might only be appearing in this type of phone. as well, which I can, I can talk to my guests as to what's been going on in a minute. but yeah, so I really needed to reproduce it, get in there, try a couple of things. And then that's exactly what happened. By the time you got my messages, I'd actually pretty much fixed the bug. yeah. $2,000 the lighter, but I have a lovely new iPhone. 16 pro Yeah Okay, so and anybody who is a very experienced metal AV foundation or CA display link Developer anybody who's worked with those technologies is probably gonna scream at me for this so Let's walk through the stack I have a stack where on a Daniel (10:47.319) Well, what was the bug? Like what caused the bug? Dave (11:15.022) core animation display link, the CA display link. What happens is that you bind the display link object. It gets set up in such a way that it executes a callback for every frame. And it is linked to the refresh rate of your device. Okay. And so that chugs along typically about 60 frames a second on most devices. Daniel (11:34.317) Mm-hmm. Dave (11:45.122) The number of times a second doesn't really matter at this point. But it's going through a loop. It's doing all of this on the main thread. And every time it does it, it's going through my node-based stack. It's linking all of the core image filters together, sending that image to that image to then go, OK, give me the final output of everything mixed, all the way through to then displaying in three places on the UI and then a fourth when you've got an external display connected. And in those three places, you've got the preview of either channel A and B, and you've got the main output with it mixed. Those areas are essentially Metal Kit views wrapped up for SwiftUI and set up in such a way that the outputs of my image stack gets received. And this is the break. different ways you can do this sort of rendering. What I was doing is the core, the CI display link loop is depositing that image to the Metal Kit view and then on its Metal Kit view loop it would then be running its draw function and using that received image to draw into itself. and that was the break, is that you've got two loops running independently of each other. And then when the external display is connected, for whatever reason, that essentially is not working well. There's some sort of issue underneath there where something on one side or the other, something is waiting for something to... for an activity to finish or it's dropping frames because this one's actually locked and being written to they're out of sync. Is my working theory without being able to debug Apple's code as well as my own? So long story short, I changed all of that into the stack that evening. I now have it so that when my display link updates, it does the drawing work straight into the Metal Kit views layer. Dave (14:10.07) and doesn't do anything that depends on Metal Kit's own cycle. And that seems to have largely fixed the bug. Yeah, so this is the world I live in, Daniel. These are the problems I try and solve that drive me nuts. Daniel (14:21.121) Fantastic. Daniel (14:25.352) Ha ha! They drive you nuts, but you fixed it and I bet you feel like so accomplished because you're like, yeah, I fixed this very complicated bug where I had to buy a new device to fix it. And it's only in like very, very specific configuration, but I did fix it. Dave (14:38.188) Yeah. Dave (14:44.174) It did, I sort of walked back into the living room, the rest of the household, like, you know, ready to accept my medal, like, yeah, done it. Yeah. During the Chad walk. Yeah. So, yeah, these are the things that drive me nuts, but also I get a lot of satisfaction out of solving. The irony here is this is a problem of my own making. This is a, this works. Daniel (14:57.591) Yeah. Dave (15:13.832) well enough in most scenarios when I refactored everything last year and I've just left it alone. I hadn't really thought about it because on everything I was testing it on, it was just working. yeah, and it's interesting because what I think happens on the Apple side, and again anybody who's got insight into this, and it's a couple of people I actually know who might, and that's why I'm kind of... caveatting, but I think what happens on the Apple side is that they make optimizations in the stack and, you know, different devices, different scenarios. Yeah. And I think while this might have been legit in one way or another with where things were working on the other devices, there's probably an optimization on these devices where that kind of falls apart. And it will be somewhere in the metal side of things. Daniel (15:53.985) They do like to do that, don't they? Daniel (16:10.263) Do you actually know people who work on the CA and Metal Kit stuff? Because I feel like if you are working on some sort of niche edge on some Apple technology, at one point after a few WWDCs, you of get to know the other side. You know each other. You're the person I always talk to. I had that with HomeKit at some point when I was working at El Gato, no, EF. Dave (16:20.489) Nah. Dave (16:35.381) Yeah. Dave (16:40.43) I feel like I should, unfortunately I don't think I do. know somebody, I work with somebody and I'm acquainted with somebody who worked for Apple and has had some experience with the graphic drivers, not the graphic drivers rather, with some of the GPU accelerated side of things. And I'm not sure how much more I can say or not, but they were there a while ago. and could probably tell me exactly where I was holding things wrong with this if I run them through and have a good laugh at me in the process as well. yeah, Keith, if you're listening, make have a laugh. But yeah, no, I felt a bit daft because as I look through how this works, the fix for this is like, yeah, of course that feels like that's more optimal. Like I'm not relying on. two things both operating on the main loop to be properly in sync together when they're drawing or writing into textures, like just do it on the one I've got. Yeah. But, this links to another thing because one of the reasons I got here so quickly is because of my top secret new project. Daniel (17:56.919) Okay. Daniel (18:02.541) Hang on, before you tell me about your top secret new project, I want to know what color your new phone is and whether you got the big or the small one. Dave (18:07.598) I got it in the... I got the black one and I got the smaller one. Daniel (18:12.501) Okay. And like just quick, did you set it up new or did you set it up as a from a, a backup? Dave (18:19.992) brand new. Yeah, so no. Well, no, for me. Yeah. So it's quicker to get into everything and get debugging, but it was also a case of, I'm using proton pass for password management. And one of the things that I like to do when setting up a new phone from brand new is use it to test that I've got everything that I need actually available. Daniel (18:21.837) Ooh, someone likes to live dangerously, but it's quicker. Dave (18:49.918) because I'm still in the pro. This was an opportunity to test whether I got all my passwords for all the things I really value across into ProtonPass or if anything was still in keychain. Yeah. And I like doing that because then I've got everything to hand if I'm using Android as well. cause ProtonPass is on both and yeah. So. Daniel (18:56.141) smart, smart. Daniel (19:08.183) Yeah, I get that. I used to do this all the time. Like whenever I got a new computer or a new phone, I would set it up from scratch. Just because like, you know, that you accumulate this cruft, not necessarily like back in the Windows days, like stuff that is just like starting in the background and like cluttering your CPU or whatever. But just like, I don't know, hundreds of apps that you tried once and they're just installed now, or they kind of disappear, but the icon is still there and stuff like that. And so I used to do that, but now I have... Dave (19:18.849) You do. Dave (19:34.604) Yep. Yep. Daniel (19:38.445) I have like three bank accounts that have various self-built single sign on solutions that of course don't get backed up even with encrypted backup. Well, they do get half backed up. And I got so many things that are just like, yeah, this needs to be working. And if you have both the old phone and the new phone, they can kind of communicate and pass the secret over or whatever. Dave (19:52.493) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Dave (20:02.932) Mm-hmm. Yep. Daniel (20:08.397) Like as of now, I can't really do that, but I'm really looking forward to at some point, either reinstalling this machine or this Mac, or actually if I ever get a new one, when I get a new one at some point, just like starting from scratch there. I'm a big fan of starting from scratch on Macs still. Dave (20:17.739) Mm-hmm. Dave (20:25.131) Yeah. Yeah, I hear you on the bank stuff actually when we lived in the UK that was an issue for me. My New Zealand bank isn't quite as stringent with the SSO end of stuff. Daniel (20:39.661) Well, stringent. I mean, they could do proper SSO. They could do hardware keys. They could do something. But it's mediocre SSO at best. But you've got to use their app. And they just decide what they store where. And I don't know. Dave (20:43.67) Mm-hmm. Dave (20:56.76) Yeah. Yeah. Daniel (21:00.865) I'd rather have everything in a single password manager or like pass keys or something, know, don't get me started on pass keys. Dave (21:06.946) Yeah, pass keys I've never quite gelled with to be fair. Daniel (21:11.819) I think it's too early because especially with websites, like websites still haven't decided whether they want to use pass keys as additional security, of like single, like two factor authentication, or if they want to use pass keys as this is your login now. And because you don't know, like every time a website asks you to use, you do want a pass key, do you want to use a pass key? You're like, is this my login? Will this change my login information? Or will this just like add it to additional step? And then if yes, Dave (21:27.97) Yes. Dave (21:34.446) Mm-hmm. Daniel (21:41.581) Does this sync properly with my different like with my password manager and stuff like that? So I'm kind of hesitant, but I'm really looking forward to a future where this is where this is better. Dave (21:47.683) Mm-hmm. Dave (21:54.018) Yeah, yeah, that's fair. No, it feels like it's just too early for me and I have a lot of trust issues just in that I don't want to be bound to a vendor specifically for all my Basquies. But yeah. Daniel (22:11.881) I get that. All right, what's the secret? Dave (22:16.896) God, okay. Righty. So I don't want to show the secret app off because then that'll be the secret is blown. However, I'm working on something with surprise, surprise real time video. I'm leveraging the stack I've already built. And if you think about the special effects that I've got in the VJ app. what this is aiming towards is something that lets normal people as it were, regular people use these effects with video in one way or another. That's all I'm really going to say on what it does. Daniel (22:55.839) in video calls? wait, you're not gonna say anything, okay. I'm excited and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter, which I'm already subscribed to, so. Dave (22:59.49) Nah, not in video calls, but... Dave (23:05.696) Nice. So I'll update you there. But the link to this bug is that one of the things that I've got going on with the whole thing, about a year ago when I moved the app over to using this node-based approach that I've built, I made a little app for the iPad and actually works on the Mac as well. And it will work on the iPhone, but it is terrible because the UI is Daniel (23:29.655) Mm-hmm. Dave (23:36.043) needs a big screen. But the app is literally a GUI for the nodes where I can connect them together visually. Daniel (23:46.103) Yeah, you shot me screenshots of that at once. Dave (23:49.294) Yeah, so I'm waving my hand around right now, which nobody can see if they're listening, but it works nicely with the pencil on the iPad. Yeah. So there I am playing with both new app and the node connecting app, which doesn't have a name, but I'm literally noodling around Daniel with nodes, connecting them together. I made Daniel (23:58.148) I can imagine, yeah, I can totally see that. Daniel (24:14.573) I love that word. Dave (24:19.042) I made everything codable so I can export it out as a JSON file. And then I can load the combined effects as a single effect into the new app. And I'm and performance goes to absolute custard. Like frames are dropping, obviously. So I'd already been down a trying to optimize where are the issues in this. Yes. So this has been the last week for me. Last weekend I was all the way down in the stack trying to figure out, where is this going wrong? And that's part of how I got so quickly to everything the other day with this other issue. Yeah. Daniel (25:07.297) Yeah, that's the thing when you have all the puzzle pieces ready. Sometimes you can build really impressive things really quickly because you have so much already there. Dave (25:17.23) Mm-hmm. Dave (25:21.324) Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Daniel (25:22.571) I realized today that today when I built some pretty neat charts in relatively quickly time, just because I had so many puzzle pieces around, but I can tell you about those later. When do we hear more about the secret app? Is this something that is definitely on the release train or is this something you're like noodling around with? And it's more an internal... Dave (25:29.868) Mm-hmm. Dave (25:36.182) Yeah, definitely. think I'm. Dave (25:47.042) Yes, good question. I'd love to get it released and actually my objective is to kind of have it released by sort of February, March time next year. Which seems like it's ages away, but it's really not. And I also have some commitments to get Govj Pro into a test flight release before Christmas. So the two are fighting at the moment for my time when I'm not on bug hunts. But yeah, I do plan to release it. It's... At moment the question I've got for myself is, is it something I'm having more fun with that other people want? I don't know. Is this just something that seemed like a good idea at the time for me? Yeah, yeah. So I think the game with this one is for me really should be about getting it to something that I can give to people as soon as possible as a beta so I can get some of that feedback and then either go Daniel (26:31.863) Yeah, hard to say. Daniel (26:45.985) Mm. Dave (26:46.944) Yeah, OK, this idea is Mr. kill it. Or more likely, think there'll be a just tweak this, change this, and then it will start to scrub up as being something releasable. So we shall see. Daniel (27:04.247) Fingers crossed. Dave (27:05.59) Yeah, I'm going to get you on my beta, Daniel. Don't worry. I definitely want you to see it. Daniel (27:10.573) I do have a very old iPad like if it runs on that like I'll be impressed Dave (27:16.686) god, you're gonna give me bug reports? No. I definitely, I literally do. I'm looking down our notes, Daniel. We've got a whole bunch of things we could talk about. What do you want to talk about next? Daniel (27:23.979) You asked for it. Daniel (27:34.476) Mm-hmm. Daniel (27:40.407) What do I want to talk about? I want to talk about what I did today because it's super fresh. And it pulls in with our slightly new theme of the show that we want to talk about like the business side of things. And these days, the business side of things means that I am trying very hard to find a project management solution or method, I guess. Dave (27:55.438) Mm-hmm. Okay. Daniel (28:10.167) that works with the restrictions that are placed upon exactly TelemetryDeck and myself especially, also like our freelancers, contractors, whatever. And so the thing is I get so many things coming in and I have like such a huge, huge list of things that I would like to do. And so it's always hard to prioritize. what I did, and you know this because we talked about this on the show for ages, I have this roadmap, and I'm using it more and more. So if something comes in and I can slot it in, like if a bug report comes in or a request for a tiny, tiny feature, if I can slot that in with a roadmap item, then I'm like, OK, I'm just going to attach it to that roadmap icon, and then I can actually work on it. And also, if you have these big chunky roadmap items, you can way better reason which one should come first. Should we do this? For example, we just released the revenue cat integration. And that slid in before, because I've been working on the pricing system, which desperately needs to upgrade for ages now. this slid in because we really wanted to release the revenue cat integration. like ASAP and it's like smaller. And now another thing kind of has slid in because if you remember last year around this time, I released a thing or really released a thing for Telemetry Deck called Telemetry Deck Rapped, which is obviously inspired by like Spotify Rapped or the equivalent iTunes, no, Apple Music feature, where it just like shows you like, okay, how was your year? Dave (29:46.743) yes, yep. Dave (29:55.884) Apple music. Yep. Daniel (29:59.201) What are the things you were listening to on your music and stuff like that? And lots of companies do this these days. And I was like, this is actually kind of neat. Like I would actually, like, I would like to like look at my apps and reminisce and feel good about, know, like what, how it happens. And thing is though, like we are, we have so many like important things to do. so, so I was like, I need, like, I need a few days to work on this. And Lisa was like, Daniel, you asked me to tell you when you are like straying off the path. And that feels like straying off the path. And so I'm like, you're right. just gonna, you know, I'm just like tomorrow, I'm just gonna take the old code that I wrote last year and like just take exactly that, not change a thing, just like re-enable it. And so I did that yesterday evening and I was like, but you could like... Dave (30:49.399) Mm-hmm. Daniel (30:58.029) fairly easily just like change the layout, right? And then I was like, but you could fairly easily because I have like under the hood, the charting and querying system has like dramatic updates. You could very easily make this a bit prettier and like make it a bit more customized. And I'm like, and you could like very easily just like because Tailwind library that I use for like layouting and stuff has this cool bento box style now that you can use. You know what, like if I do this, like Lisa is on vacation today, if I can finish this today, if I can finish all of this in one day, then it won't count. Dave (31:30.254) Yeah. Daniel (31:43.277) Let me show you what I built. I actually loaded in your app. Dave (31:43.875) Okay. I love how the business side also directly links up with the getting deep into a bit of random dev side, Daniel. Daniel (31:56.269) Yeah, I allowed myself one day of just doing things. OK, I'm going to share how this looks. This is live off my PC, off my Mac, actually. And this is Govj. This is your app. You gave me permission to share this earlier. So this is the data. Dave (32:07.852) just move you to my bigger screen. Yep. I did. I did. I consent. It's okay. So data protection. Yeah. Daniel (32:17.364) And by the time this episode goes out, this will be live. I don't mind sharing that at all. There's just a new menu item appears. It's called wrapped. some sort. I chose a image of a tortilla because gifts feel too cliche. I was like, what else can we wrap? I showed tortilla. And yeah, I this nice little bento box with all kinds of Dave (32:29.71) Mm-hmm. Dave (32:40.814) Excellent. taco deck. Daniel (32:45.741) with all kinds of neat little information about your app. One thing I'm particularly proud of, yeah. Dave (32:53.954) I love that back in May that it's highlighted. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's the Govj3 release. I think if I look back. Daniel (33:03.169) Yeah, one of the boxes that I have is like best day where it says like, okay, Govijay had its best day on Friday, May 24th when 77 people used it at the same time. That's kind of neat because that's like so like, just like technically so cheap to build, but I think it's just an awesome idea. That's an idea by Marina. And they were like, hey, how about, can we do that? And I'm like, yeah, that's actually like the easiest thing. Dave (33:30.862) So I'm just looking down my commits and just trying to see what I had around about that day. Yeah, that has gotta be, yeah, it's version three. And version three brought the camera input and that gained a lot of interest. Yeah, now this is cool. Daniel (33:55.117) I'm very nice. Dave (33:59.278) This is cool. is interesting to see. I'm going to look at there. will shamelessly screenshot that when that is ready and use that for an Instagram post. Yes. Daniel (34:03.073) Yeah, and so because the charting system, yeah. Daniel (34:12.481) That's what it's for. That's what it's for. Please do. Because last time we did this, it was so nice to see everyone sharing this. And it got a lot of people talking about their data and telemetry deck in general. So I'm really hoping that this will happen again. And so I'm really taking, I really wanted to do it to make it pretty, know? To make this look like a very nice interactive infographic. And that's kind of what it is, Ian. Dave (34:39.566) was great. Daniel (34:39.597) I'm particularly proud of the fact that I can now modify these charts. For example, in the top right, we have a pie chart, but I changed the angle so you only have a quarter of a pie chart. All the data is only in quarter of a pie chart, so I could really shove it into the corner of this bento box and still have it look pretty. And I can stack the charts on top of each other. And all of this is like the normal telemetry deck charting system. Dave (34:56.151) Mm-hmm. Dave (35:03.374) That's nice. Dave (35:10.158) Mm-hmm. Daniel (35:10.183) and the normal querying system. It's just like these things are by now very component based, so I can combine them in different fun ways. And this is cool because I really wanted to do this kind of data visualization thing. And most of the time, I can't do it because I want to make things that are usable in all kinds of situations. And here, could just make things pretty, because it will always look like this. I know what kind of data is going in. Dave (35:36.078) I love it. Yeah. Daniel (35:41.559) Your app is in the top 95 % of apps on telemetry deck, is most apps probably. Yeah. And one thing, yeah. Dave (35:50.2) Yeah Dave (35:55.758) Yeah, 5,335 individual people have used Govj this year, which I was like, that feels a little smaller than I expected in some ways based off sort of installs and some gut feel. But you've got a nice little tagline there that says Govj has touched the lives of 5,335 people this year. That's about four New York City subway trains at full capacity, which is a comparison that I love. Daniel (36:30.487) Yeah, I was working on this and I was like, even if these numbers sometimes can seem a bit small to us, you know? And so I really wanted to highlight the fact that these are actual, real people who have used the things that we are working on, you know? And that is so cool. When I actually visualized 5,300 people, that is a lot of people, you And so I tried to come up with, like have a... Dave (36:48.366) Mm-hmm. Daniel (36:58.945) basically an array of different sizes and it will just try and pick intelligently something to compare it to. And I'm hoping people get a bit of a kick out of trying to find the different comparisons and stuff. Dave (37:16.054) I love it. One last thing I looked up there, we've got the at the top it says most used device iPhone 12 comma one and it's used by 5 % of users. And I looked up that device ID and it's the iPhone 11. This is good to know because Daniel (37:18.957) Mm-hmm. Daniel (37:26.283) Right. Daniel (37:36.781) Mm-hmm. Dave (37:41.698) Guess what my new test device is after all of the circle of life of new devices and updates have happened in my device in my house. Daniel (37:45.485) Ha Daniel (37:49.979) very good. Dave (37:51.31) Got an iPhone 11 coming back to me from my my eldest kid as a test device. Daniel (37:58.123) Right, although this panel might not use, we discovered this just before the show started, might not use all the data right now because as you might recall, telemetry changed its parameter format. And right now the query for these panels sometimes only uses the new parameter format. there might be devices sending. in an old version of Govj and then that kind of won't be included in that. And that's the same for because of a panel that's called app versions. And that only shows, that shows like three versions for you, 3.4, 3.3 and 3.5. And I assume it's probably the same here that like there are actually more versions or there might be more versions, but they might be using a older version of the telemetry SDK. So one thing that I need to do before releasing this is actually Dave (38:44.718) Yeah, there will be. Daniel (38:51.797) updating the queries a bit so that they will try and combine the old data with the new. Dave (38:58.104) For me, I think it's perfectly usable as a visualization just as it is. And I think even with that considered, yeah, this is good to see, Daniel. I'm looking forward to it being released. But yeah. Daniel (39:11.223) Fantastic. Right, let me show you the website version as well, like if we're sharing things. Because if you have a website, it's about the same, but it's a bit different because I can show you where your visitors are coming from. Most of the visitors for the telemetry website, for example, are coming from the US, followed by Germany, then the UK, then India. Dave (39:17.774) Mmm. Daniel (39:38.029) It'll show you like what is the most viewed webpage, which is a blog post about the iOS market share, which will hopefully be superseded by our new orbital survey section. So it gives you traffic sources. And again, I had fun with like half circles here. It gives you, of course, visitor numbers. These are a bit inflated though, because the way that we count users is not 100 % Dave (39:50.51) Mm-hmm. Daniel (40:08.097) Like on the web, we only have the same unique identifier for a person for 24 hours and then it changes because we don't want to set cookies and stuff like that. So this might be inflated slightly. but you see a different comparison here. says telemetry deck website has been visited by 95,000 people this year. That's about 10 Lil Nas X concerts. I wanted to use Nine Inch Nails concerts, but I was like, do people even know Nine Inch Nails anymore? Dave (40:41.55) Ooooo that hurts! That kicks me right in the 90s. Daniel (40:43.853) And I like Lil Nas X. Dave (40:48.472) Yeah, me too. Daniel (40:50.989) So yeah, that's the website version. And yeah, this is going live as soon as I fix those things. Dave (40:54.414) Brilliant. Daniel (41:01.354) Since I already have stuff to do tomorrow, I might sit down later. But I have no promises. But this is going live soon. Dave (41:09.912) Are you going to tell Lisa how you used your time? Or is she just going to find that out when she listens to the show? Daniel (41:13.067) I mean, she's, she's, she, usually listens to this podcast. But, but if she does, she will be super happy that I will have worked on something that is very, like that will increase buzz because buzz is very important. Dave (41:32.334) It is indeed. I am looking forward to it. I took a screenshot while we were on the call because I want to take that 77 users on May the 24th and post about it somewhere, but no, I'll wait. Daniel (41:45.431) You Let me take a proper screenshot with my computer. I'm going to do it later actually because I'm one handed because I'm holding the microphone. Dave (41:52.408) Thank you for the resolutions. Yeah. Thank you. Dave (42:02.37) Yep, yep. You need some keyboard shortcuts to help you out with that. Daniel (42:07.955) I do need some keyboard shortcuts, but they're all messed up. Like, that's what you're alluding to, right? I added an entry to our show notes that says, Daniel's keyboard shortcuts are all messed up. And they are. Like, so what's happening is this. I recently, not recently, actually, I recently discovered, or I don't know, like it's been a few months and somehow, Dave (42:12.014) He saw me before the show, Daniel (42:36.897) Like half of my keyboard shortcuts are not really working. Like command C or whatever works, but everything that's more complicated. Like I have a keyboard shortcut to open the Things app. I have a keyboard shortcut that I use a lot. I have a keyboard shortcut for Spotlight, and I have a keyboard shortcut for, let's say, one password. And those are all like flaky. They're flaky in a weird way. That is so annoying to me. sometimes they work, sometimes they just don't. And I'm at my wit's end. I have a few suspicions. I have two apps installed on my computer that are also trying to mess with these keyboard shortcuts. One of them is Paste. It's a clipboard manager. And it's really good, but of course it takes over command C and command V. paste somehow crashes every now and then. Or wait, it doesn't crash, it kind of just disappears. Because I looked into the crash log and there's just no crash logs. There's nothing. So I wrote to their support and they're super friendly. Dave (43:54.477) Right, okay. Daniel (44:00.151) were trying to guide me through disable or enabling various features, but this is an ongoing process. So no hate to the people who make paste, like lovely app, I will still recommend it. But every now and then it of disappears, but that changes some of my screen. But the other thing is I installed, just to try it out, like the Mac app for chat GPT a few months ago. And it's kind of the same thing. Like that app wanted to take over various... keyboard shortcuts to open instead of Siri. And it's like, OK, I'm just to try it out. I don't really want to use it. But it's still there somewhere. I disabled the screen shot, but it's still lurking somewhere beneath the surface. It is just there. And then I installed the Numack OS. And now it has type to Siri. And that also wants a keyboard shortcut. That always works somehow. I added it. I put it on just like. Dave (44:29.443) Yeah. Dave (44:41.442) Yep. Yep. Daniel (44:56.759) tap the command key twice. Yeah, just works. Like the Siri behind it doesn't do anything because it's still dumb old Siri, but it looks pretty. And that always launches. So I'm I'm confused and I kind of want to just reinstall the whole system and just go back to a known state. Dave (45:17.304) Yep. Yep. Daniel (45:20.076) But yeah, if anyone out there has any very cool ideas, I'd love to hear them on the Mastodon or on the Blue Sky or wherever you can reach me. Dave (45:32.876) thinking this one through Daniel thinking about everything you've got going on working wise do you really have the time to spend without a working setup? Daniel (45:45.581) I don't. No, I just like, I feel like we just need a very large customer that buys like a yearly plan. And then I'd be like, ooh, that bank account suddenly looks so full. I think I need to buy an M4. And then I can use this M1 while I'm setting up the M4. Dave (45:47.211) No. Dave (45:55.224) Mm-hmm. Dave (46:06.616) Hahaha. Dave (46:11.924) Yeah, true, true, that works. The other way you could do it if you had to hand the right external drives is you could make a working installation on another drive. Get that to where like... Daniel (46:27.423) I've heard bad things about like working off external drive on Apple and not Apple intelligence by like Apple silicon Dave (46:30.923) Yeah. Dave (46:35.372) I was just thinking in general, like set up the machine on a new drive, get it to where you need it. And then if you needed to boot back into the original, could. Yeah. Then when you're sorted with the clean setup, you do a time machine backup and then you reload that on top of your, your main machine. That feels Daniel (46:44.792) I see. Daniel (46:54.783) yeah, no, time machine doesn't work on this machine as well anymore. I don't know why. But if I try to do time machine onto the Synology or an external drive, it's like I'm trying to calculate the differences. I am trying to find the differences between the old and the new backup. I am looking at calculating the differences. And it's just stuck there. I've let it just churn for a few days, and it's just never going to the. Dave (46:59.523) Oof. Dave (47:18.158) it just gets stuck. It's chat GPT Daniel, it's in there, it's lurking. Daniel (47:24.877) to the copying stage. think actually, like, that's another thing that I did. Like, you know how when you, especially with JavaScript, you have like 40 billion dependencies on everything. So I found this app that tries to find all these dependencies folder that are just like temp folders on your hard drive and marks them as excluded from time machine backups. And I think like, Thinking back to it. I think that is where I just like fried my my time machine because I wanted to do the right thing because John Syracuse had told me so Dave (47:56.494) It's getting itself stuck. it's a fair thing to do is to make sure that it's not packing up stuff it doesn't need to. Daniel (48:08.171) Yeah, especially because like these, these like very large number of files that are all very small, there's a horrible to backup and they change all the time. They like they turn like, yeah. And it's completely useless because like you you, you type in PNPMI one time and it just like redownloads them. But I think what should be done is like just completely disregard, like destroy all the time machine backups and start from fresh. But when I did that. Dave (48:27.16) Mm-hmm. Daniel (48:37.069) tried that now also didn't work anymore. yeah, I'm usually I'm like one of those people who has a pristine computer and a pristine installation. And because I've been just like using the thing so much. Like it is just like very, very used. Dave (48:41.796) Yeah. Dave (48:54.702) I feel like this is all the way through to rationalizing the M4 purchase for you Daniel to be honest. given my last couple of days I cannot pass comment in that regard but I hear they're good machines and yep yep and something something YOLO so you know. Daniel (49:14.221) They're good machines, brunt. Dave (49:22.72) If you, if you need an enabling opinion, Daniel, I think. Daniel (49:26.541) I appreciate it. I think I'm going to stay with this one for a while longer though. It has this really nice sticker. Dave (49:31.97) That's is that a telemetry deck sticker by any chance? Daniel (49:38.143) It's a telemetry sticker, yeah. Spoiler alert. Yeah, so if you know anything about the keyboard shortcuts, but I think the solution is just to reinstall everything. But I want to talk to you about people writing in. Dave (49:56.536) Mm-hmm. Daniel (49:58.541) You told me we have some feedback on changing the name of the show. Dave (50:03.362) We do indeed. So. Daniel (50:04.941) Because while you're looking it up, like recapping, we talked the last time about, do we maybe want to change the name of the show? Now we are less Apple developer focused. Like I'm writing software mostly in JavaScript and Python and Swift on the server. And like you are very deep in iOS and core animation, but you are also looking at other things and we were talking more about our businesses. So do we want to change the name of the show? People had thoughts. Dave (50:20.462) Mm-hmm. Dave (50:33.474) They did. So this particular piece of listener feedback comes from Jim Rea. Jim is a listener of the show, but he's also a good friend. And I just realized I actually don't know how Jim pronounces his surname. So although he's a good friend, if I've messed that up, mate, I'm really sorry. However, what did Jim say? Jim said... Daniel (50:55.105) Ha ha ha Dave (51:02.382) I strongly vote that you keep the waiting for review branding. I changed a product name once that I really didn't need to, and I really regret it. I think you've got an excellent name already and it would be, it would still be fine with all the topics you're talking to. let me say that again. It would be still be fine with all the topics that you're talking about discussing on the show. So I I agree. You put that together. What is Jim saying? He's saying if it's not broke, don't fix it. Daniel (51:39.201) Yeah, I mean, he's the guy that's driving home for Christmas, right? Dave (51:43.52) No, that's his brother Chris. Stop it. Daniel (51:45.869) okay, Chris Rea, yeah, okay. No, if like, no, I'm fine. I really wasn't able to think of a better name. I had a few fun ones, but you were rightfully vetoing those. Dave (51:52.344) Yep. Dave (51:56.514) Yep. Dave (52:03.074) I think I did, yeah can't remember which one I vetoed from you now, but Daniel (52:06.413) You will be told pretzel and kiwi Dave (52:10.048) Yes, yes, although if we... Daniel (52:11.403) which is probably a good idea to veto because like I would just be hungry all the time. Dave (52:18.222) Prezcellent Kiwi for some reason it sounds like one of those old like Saturday morning cartoons to me. Which if the AI ever gets good enough for us to generate Daniel we can totally do some shorts that are Prezcellent Kiwi. Daniel (52:24.442) Yeah, exactly. Daniel (52:37.035) I imagine something like, there was an era of more like Saturday morning animation shows that was just like incredibly weird, but like in a fun way. Like there's one, I forgot the name right now, but it's like a cat and a dog that are kind of sewn together. Like they're both like, they're sharing a body. Dave (52:54.624) It's literally called in English, it's literally cat dog. It was called cat dog. Yeah. Daniel (53:00.238) perfect. Yeah. that kind of weirdness and also visual style, that's what I'm imagining for pretzel and kiwi. Dave (53:04.482) Yep. Dave (53:08.428) Well, that's fair. Let's wait for GPT to get it. Every time I put my thumb up, I'm getting a little thumbs up pop up, which is far too amusing. no, so thank you, Jim, for your feedback, mate. And I think, certainly for now, I feel settled on this. Like I've had a bit of a think in the last couple of weeks as well. Much like yourself, Daniel, I couldn't come up with a better name. Daniel (53:15.469) You Dave (53:39.528) it would feel silly I guess to maybe change it just out of nowhere so until something comes along and we're like yeah actually this is the new name and we should definitely move to that I think it's let's keep trucking we are waiting for review and Daniel (53:56.887) We are waiting for a view. Dave (53:59.438) Absolutely. On that note, Daniel, I need to wrap. need to go. My day is starting here in New Zealand. So do you want to take us to the outro? Daniel (54:11.083) I do, yeah, I also need to wrap because like the cats are getting hungry. I don't know, like did you notice actually they were like jumping around my feet and stuff. But even better, like I'm gonna feed them right after this, but first, thank you so much for listening. Please, because this is waiting for review, you gotta review us on iTunes and YouTube. Like just like add a comment, us, us on iTunes. Send us emails. Dave (54:19.178) No, no, I didn't. Daniel (54:37.095) and contact at waitingforreview.com and join our Discord. The link is in the show notes. And Dave, tell us where people can find you. Dave (54:45.454) You can find my apps over at lightbeamapps.com. You can find my video postings about my apps over on Instagram. The account name there is lightbeamapps.com with dot com spelled D-O-T com. How about yourself, Daniel? Daniel (55:04.589) I finally made the thing where I was able to connect the domain name to the blue skies. So now my company is on blue sky called at telemetry deck.com. Daniel (55:20.493) Woop, woop, woop. Follow me there. Have a great day. Also follow me on my private Brewsky account, but I'm going to have to think about the account name some more because it's just impossible to spell. Yeah. See you next week, and have a great day. Dave (55:22.456) Brilliant. Dave (55:40.066) You too, Daniel. Take care, mate. Daniel (55:43.009) Bye!