Daniel (00:02.571) And the show is go. We are live for the show. I repeat, we are live for the show. Hey Dave, nice to see you. Dave (00:08.544) Excellent. And you man, how you doing? Daniel (00:13.228) I am exhausted because so much is going on, but I'm good. I'm really happy to see her. And I finally updated my list of job titles. So I'm hoping you will be able to enjoy some new job titles for the introduction data. Dave (00:20.995) Yeah. Dave (00:34.574) I give a well. I'm on tenterhooks to see what my new job title is. Daniel (00:38.796) You Daniel (00:43.308) Well then let's just jump right in, right? Hey, welcome to Waiting for a View, a show about the majestic indie developer lifestyle. Join your scintillating hosts to hear about a tiny slice of their thrilling lives. I'm Daniel, the head of business development, sales and marketing at Telemetry Deck. And I'm here with Dave, mayor of Dongletown. Join us while waiting for a view. Dave (01:10.998) dear, I would try and deny that I have that morality, however, I look around my desk, what have I got? I've got a dongle holding up to the camera there, a little US HDMI input thing of me that turns into a webcam feed. I have probably about four or five of these for various video reasons. Daniel (01:21.128) Gotcha. Daniel (01:37.611) because you're the video guy. Dave (01:40.15) Yeah, yeah, yeah. Daniel (01:43.382) How are things doing? how's Govj and the experiment into multiplatform going? If you wanna give us a quick update. Dave (01:50.958) The experiment had, well, the experiment stalled in the last week because I've been doing so much garden DIY yard work stuff in the house. So even when I've not been out there doing that over the weekend, I've been quite tired. I've been touching grass, concrete, bricks with a, that was with a pickaxe. That was quite fun actually. It's like this. Daniel (02:08.679) you've been touching grass. Daniel (02:19.601) nice. Dave (02:20.62) game that some people play with blocks and things except the clipping distance was really far out. The shaders were really good quality. But yeah, you get tied out. Daniel (02:24.843) You Daniel (02:35.084) The voxels were kind of small, I assume. Dave (02:38.71) incredibly small like it was just on point. I don't know what graphics card they're using but yeah it was pretty high level, very realistic. So yeah that has been my life playing with with pickaxes and sledgehammers in real life but Daniel (02:46.526) Fantastic. Daniel (02:56.467) Nice, so but did you minecraft style did you also craft something? Dave (03:00.958) No, yeah, maybe, maybe actually we did a few things that were a little bit like that. But yeah, no major crafting this time to be fair. Yeah, so the experiment is kind of on hold, but sorry, go for it. Speaking of locks. Daniel (03:17.76) but speaking of blocks... Uh-huh. Speaking of blocks, that can lead me directly into the first thing I want to tell you today, which is I actually got a block. I don't have it physically with me because it's the office. But I went to Berlin last week. Dave (03:40.6) Mm-hmm. Daniel (03:42.135) And I went to a award ceremony for the Corporate Digital Responsibility Award, which is an award that is given out by a combination of a big German industry group and the state of Bavaria, which makes no sense given that I traveling outside of the state of Bavaria to go to this award ceremony. This thing is kind of like the Oscar for companies who try to do good things. Good for the environment, good for people, good for ethics, stuff like that. And it turns out we won the Oscar in the privacy and data security category. Dave (04:25.954) Yep. Yep. Dave (04:34.732) Hey, awesome. Daniel (04:36.912) So I now have a huge award sitting in my office next to Lisa's award that she got a few months ago for Startup Tech Pioneer of the Year of the city of Augsburg. And both of them are just like really huge blocks of glass. Like the startup pioneer tech pioneer kind of thing is like more like a long and thin block of glass. Dave (04:54.158) Mm-hmm. Daniel (05:03.75) And the corporate digital responsibility award is an actual cube of blue glass, slightly frosted. It looks very pretty and it's incredibly heavy. And it was quite fun to receive that because I very much did not expect to receive that. The invitation was like last summer or so a few people were like, hey, can we nominate you for that award? And we were like, I mean, Dave (05:14.125) Yeah. Dave (05:32.142) Mm-hmm. Daniel (05:33.578) let's look into that. And the nomination process was kind of very complicated. You have to produce a lot of documents and information about your company and stuff like that. And we were like, yeah, come on, let's do it. actually with a lot of help from our intern, Julian, thanks so much if you listen, I don't think he does, but whatever. And yeah, we actually handed in our application. got a word a month ago that we were on the shortlist. And so was like, if you're on the shortlist, I'm going to go there. And it was a kind of huge ceremony, like, like not Oscars level, but but it was it was pretty pompous. And there were lots of cool people there. And who I talked a lot with. And then the award award ceremony began. And they had on the shortlist were like four companies. Dave (06:11.79) Mm-hmm. Daniel (06:32.775) And so they were like, all right, we're going to read out the top three winners. And I'm like, that's harsh because people will realize that we're on the fourth place, not just any place below first. But so they read out third place and I'm like, that's not us. OK. They read out second place and I'm like, that's not us either. So now it's either win or last place. Dave (07:00.856) He Daniel (07:03.657) And then they say on the stage they say something and for first place we ask to come to the stage John Mack name a name that I just invented because I forgot the actual name I'm like, that's not my name. bummer. And then they go on to to speak about the winner for this award telemetry deck Dave (07:19.234) Yep. Dave (07:26.222) So they were absolutely every stage you're like, is it or are we, it or are we? And then there you were. Daniel (07:30.106) Right, right, right. And the people around me were super excited for us as well. Aw, there's confetti on my screen. Dave (07:40.768) Yeah, yeah, but only over my checks. I've got the background on. But yeah, anyway. Daniel (07:43.996) Right. And I, I went up to the stage and then it turned out they hadn't planned this well because they were planning on holding a small speech. Not me holding a small speech, but they holding a small speech. And like for all the other award winners, they came after me. They were, they only asked them to come to the stage after the speech because it was kind of long. was standing there awkwardly, not really knowing what to do with my hands. like the award in front of me but I was not yet allowed to touch it. I was like, do I look into the audience? Do I look at the person like reading out their notes? They're saying so many nice things. They're saying so many nice things. I nod? Should I react? I? I was like, like staring into the crowd and grinning. Dave (08:13.55) Mm. Dave (08:24.718) just look at the award, you're like, that's mine. That's mine. Dave (08:33.25) Yeah, emote. Daniel (08:42.098) But yeah, and I managed to bring it home safely. they gave us with the award, like after the ceremony, they gave us these little boxes that were aligned with some sort of silk or something. And that was really helpful because I was really afraid of like cracking the thing. Dave (09:01.55) You're describing something that seems in my mental image of this, that it's like an energon cube from Transformers, like he said a sort of glass. Yeah. Yeah. Daniel (09:11.259) Yeah, or the tesseract from the Marvel cinematic universe. Dave (09:17.582) Definitely need you to grab a picture of that or link a social media post with a picture of it. Daniel (09:22.12) Yeah, like it's in my, I posted a few pictures of it already, so I'm just gonna link the thing. But you don't have to look it up now. I'm gonna send you the picture again, and then you can look at it and our listeners, and just go to the show notes and marvel at the fantastic award that we got. I need you to speak for 20 seconds, I think. Dave (09:28.59) Nice. No, no, Dave (09:37.462) and see. haha Dave (09:49.216) Okay, so I'll filibuster this space in one way or another. And yeah, so nice weather we've been having here lately, Daniel. It's middle of the summer here in New Zealand. Sorry listeners. Daniel (09:57.648) Ha ha ha. I'm done, I'm done, it's okay, it's okay, I found it, I send it to you. You are rubbish at this. You're usually so good with your words. What's going on today? Did you have your coffee? Dave (10:14.988) I have my coffee, I think I need more coffee. Daniel (10:17.543) Alright, that sounded way meaner than I meant it sound. Like you are, right now, you are less good, because I usually know that from you, I only expect the top quality of words. Dave (10:31.382) I've tear rolling down the side of my face here, Daniel. Hold on to this moment. I've got a picture of the award and it looks... Is that your shelf there? That's Lisa's award on the left hand side in the yellow. Telemetry Deck's new one on the right in blue. Honestly, just want to share this actually with viewers on the YouTubes. Daniel (10:34.811) So apologies, I didn't want to be mean. Daniel (11:01.603) yeah, you can share your screen to the video, listeners, viewers. Dave (11:02.165) in Yeah I can, I can indeed. Let's see how this works out then. So let me just... Yeah I am terrible at this today, give me one second. Daniel (11:16.647) So now I need to. So I'm going to tell you in the meantime that for this ceremony, because one of the award-givers was the state of Bavaria, they had kind of like a Bavarian embassy in Berlin, which is very unusual because Berlin, like north of Germany, looks very different, feels very different than Bavaria, but they had like a tiny slice of Bavaria in the very north. And it was actually right opposite the North Korean embassy. Dave (11:43.406) That's awesome. Daniel (11:46.395) Which was also very fun. Which was, by the way, surrounded by very high fence. Dave (11:48.408) Ha Dave (11:53.326) You're like, hi. Daniel (11:55.952) But yeah, they had they had like Bavarian beer and all that. Like it looked like a cliche Oktoberfest kind of situation. They had like a whole like at least in the basement, they had a basement that was like basically redecorated to look very traditionally Bavarian, very like, home away from home. And it was very uncanny valley in a way. But they had good beer and like nice wooden walls with all those paintings and stuff like that. Beer garden atmosphere. Dave (12:03.298) Dang. Daniel (12:25.583) Well, over to you. Dave (12:26.072) That's awesome. That's awesome. Yeah. Like what you're describing there reminds me of this gastro restaurants that tries to be like a British thing in Wellington that I had a bit of an uncanny Valley moment when I, when I went in there, cause it's trying to be like the UK. But anyway, I've got a screen share up here. This is your shelf in your office. You've got the awards there. And I wanted to share this because Daniel (12:35.318) Yeah. Dave (12:56.384) make this photograph, it looks like it's out of an Ikea catalog or something. looks like it's like you've aligned it really well. The awards are in the middle. I mean, you're all the thirds is slightly off, but it looks it looks awesome. Nice, very nice. What's the one on one on the left, though? What was that award for? Daniel (12:59.929) Ha Daniel (13:12.069) Thank you very much. Daniel (13:18.245) That's just a plant. That is just a tiny plant. It's a succulent. And I put it there because that's usually on the shelf next to the other things. There's a few other things on that shelf usually, but I kind of want to frame the awards. But then the plant was kind of in the frame and I was like, I'm just going to shoot it. There's a tiny robot on the shelf. There's a, like one of those waving prosperity cats. Dave (13:31.822) Hmm hmm. Dave (13:42.817) Okay. Dave (13:47.459) Yes. Daniel (13:48.901) And there's a framed piece of paper that says we were in second place for some other awards ceremony thing. But that's just a framed piece of paper, but it's signed by Germany's current Minister of Industry. So that's kind of nice. Dave (14:01.39) That's really awesome. Dave (14:07.446) Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's really cool. Love it. I love the Hall of Hall of Awards, Hall of Fame type thing you're building up there. I'm looking into show notes, Daniel, and I'm seeing something here that I really want to talk about, and that is the Galactic Unicorn Gauge. Tell me more. Daniel (14:14.308) Right. Daniel (14:28.919) All right, I will tell you more. That actually fits very well with this topic because that's another thing that's on that shelf. Now, so one thing that I've been wanting to do is just keep an eye on how Telemetry Deck is doing and especially like how their calculation servers are doing. And we have implemented a few months ago, we started doing this, we've implemented a queuing system that will like work on I want to say 10-ish queries at once, but not too many more because that's actually more performant than making the query server try to calculate all the queries at once that you throw at it. So if you browse through the user interface very quickly and you have lots of very slow running queries, then the queue will just fill up and the queuing server will just work on it. And after I built this, I added a kind of gauge for it. to our internal Grafana dashboards. That will just show that in a very rudimentary way. It's just like, okay, it's like split up between different queue priorities because we have like a very low priority than the normal priority and then a very high priority as well that we only use in emergencies basically, but that will like bypass all the others. And so every now, I caught myself like opening that webpage Dave (15:32.792) Mm-hmm. Daniel (15:58.04) every day just to look at it. And I was like, I kind of want to like, this is annoying to always open that thing. And also that dashboard has a lot of other pieces of data and graphs and all the other graphs only update every 30 seconds or so, but this gauge can actually update every, every millisecond, not millisecond, but maybe every, every half a second or so, because it's a very quick and dirty, and quick and cheap like courage to actually know how much is in the queue. And so Dave (16:00.27) Mm-hmm. Dave (16:26.798) Mm-hmm. Daniel (16:27.988) I remembered that I have this piece of hardware lying around that I bought maybe a year ago and it's called the Galactic Unicorn. It's made by Pimaroni. I'm going to drop a link into the show notes. And it is basically a Raspberry Pi glued to the back of a huge or huge-ish LED screen. Dave (16:55.98) Nice. Daniel (16:56.483) So what you have in the front is a, I want to say, 50 by 11 LEDs screen that has full color. then on the back, there's a Raspberry Pi, actually a Raspberry Pi Co, is, so it's in the show notes, you can click it later, which doesn't even have an operating system. just put onto it, you put on one Python script or C. Dave (17:09.059) Yeah. Dave (17:16.086) tiny yeah Daniel (17:26.657) script C program and then it will just run that. But it has Wi-Fi and it's actually kind of easy to program for someone who's not very much into embedded systems like me. So I built a gauge. Dave (17:27.435) Understand, yeah. Dave (17:35.905) Yeah? I'm just looking at it now and that looks fantastic. It looks awesome. Daniel (17:44.555) Yeah, I have a, I have that thing in the office now and it will every every second or so it will use the wifi to query that API endpoint that will give you the number of like elements in each queue and then display these bars, like from the left to the right. and it's awesome. It's really fun, especially like, know, when you're, but I'm programming something and then suddenly the number of queued Dave (17:49.614) Mm-hmm. Dave (18:04.846) That's fantastic. Daniel (18:12.866) is like shooting way up because I don't know I'm deleting some cache or whatever and you just like look to your left you could see that fluctuating it's actually really cool Dave (18:18.796) Yeah, and you can see it reacting. Yeah. I love that. I really love that. I'm looking and I'm thinking the only thing there is like, can you get audio off it as well? Daniel (18:34.434) It has a microphone, yeah. It also has a brightness sensor, so it's actually a really neat piece of hardware. Dave (18:41.986) Yeah, because I sort of feel like, you know, you need, as it's starting to redline any particular gauge or whatever, you could have it sort of be alerting you. Yeah, yeah, or like a, you know, danger, Daniel, danger kind of thing. Yeah. Daniel (18:50.909) Ha, you beep you mean. Daniel (18:56.621) Danger, Dan. Yeah, that would work, probably. So I'm actually thinking about what I should do, because right now, if it just reaches the rightmost edge of the screen, just does nothing. It will just go on and not display the pixels anymore. But I'm thinking what I could do is I could totally put in a second layer. I'm having, for example, a bright red. And could put just a slightly darker shade of red on top. And so just layer those. And that will probably work. Dave (19:31.308) Yep. Yeah, you really could. You could probably have some sort of animation or something playing as well. Like, so if things were sort of at a good level, you know, you could have it like rippling green across it or something, you know, and then like, and then if it starts, if metric starts to shift beyond that lab baseline, then it kicks in with your, your lines that you've got now. So you have a very obvious light. Yeah. Daniel (19:40.064) Mm-hmm. Daniel (19:56.886) Also a very nice idea. Right. Yeah, I put in a... It's gorgeous. I put in a link to a photo of the thing in action onto our show notes. You can look at it as our viewers and listeners. And yeah, one of the reasons why I wanted this thing to be finished right now is because tomorrow we're going to get visited in the office. Dave (20:02.019) I'm absolutely looking at it and thinking, yes, I want one of these. Dave (20:17.912) Mm-hmm. Daniel (20:28.086) by the world famous TV station Augsburg TV. Viewership is about, I want to say, like three bars, two dentists and probably a plumber that will have them just like in their public areas. But whatever, an actual reporter is coming into our interoffice to like interviews for TV, which is kind of cool. So I want Dave (20:56.91) fantastic. Daniel (20:57.269) the background to look visually interesting. And one of the things that we can put there is this dynamic gauge that's updating all the time. Dave (21:04.014) Nice. Yeah, it's really cool. And it gives this visual to what's going on on the servers that is probably quite abstract for something like that sort of an interview, right? When you're talking about queues and this and the other, yeah. Daniel (21:17.786) yeah, totally, So the metaphor we kind of settled on for like explaining this to non-techs is imagine you're running a cafe or a bar and you don't really care. Like you want to optimize the bar like for your profit, also for like the, the, for so that your customers like to be there. So imagine you could have like a number for each chair in your cafe. Dave (21:31.566) Mm-hmm. Daniel (21:46.869) How many people sat on this today? And you don't care if it was a man or a woman, if they were rich or poor, if they were Dave or Daniel. You just care about the fact that somehow on this one chair, there's only two people sat. And on every other chair, there was like 50 people on them. And so now you can look for reasons for this. You can try to rearrange. You can improve your cafe and your seating plan. Dave (21:58.094) Mm-hmm. Daniel (22:17.121) So that's probably the metaphor I'm gonna queue up for tomorrow. Dave (22:21.272) queue up, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So then it becomes like your different lines on the galactic unicorn, or different tables in the virtual cafe. Daniel (22:29.313) Thanks Daniel (22:33.172) Exactly. The picture I posted on Mastodon also has a hammer in front. Ignore the hammer, it has nothing to do with that. This is not a part of the installation, it's just like to prevent the thing from falling over. Dave (22:36.75) system. Dave (22:47.69) Oh man, you're bordering into my most recent world there with the hammer. Daniel (22:53.792) Because the thing has tiny legs, but I kind of misplaced them. Dave (23:00.974) That's a really good size and yeah I'm definitely eyeballing that for this this home office. I think I could make use of something there. Daniel (23:10.177) Cool. That's cool. It's all, it's really fun to program. have lots of examples too. They have this little library that basically like, so you can basically just copy together stuff. So you're like, okay, I need to be able to access the wifi and make a web request. So grabbing this piece of code and that gives you basically the request library for Python, which is very high level way of just like requesting JSON from API endpoints. Dave (23:39.022) Mm-hmm. Daniel (23:40.478) And then they have this whole library of like, draw a pixel there and we'll abstract away all the things in the background. And so yeah, it's surprisingly comfortable for such a low level piece of hardware. It's really nicely done. Dave (23:56.79) Awesome, awesome stuff. Daniel (23:57.78) And I think the version I linked on even has a faster processor than the one I have. Like have the first generation, and think the one that are selling is the second gen. Dave (24:05.335) Right. Dave (24:09.236) you are enabling my tech habit here, Daniel, because I'm definitely adding that to my shopping cart. And I really wish they were sponsoring us given this the way the show has gone. Daniel (24:11.2) that might be updating quicker. Daniel (24:18.943) they totally should. They totally should. Like, because I want to have like, I want to have like five of them and display the number of telemetry signals currently in the data set going. Dave (24:32.384) Yes. Question for you. Bit of a techie question here, getting into the detail of it. Is it linking to a special API that you've set up or a query that way? Or have you got it directly linked to the Grafana dashboard in some manner? Daniel (24:34.931) Mm-hmm. Daniel (24:46.782) Now I built a specific API endpoint that will just give you a dictionary of all the queues with number of items in the queue. Because that endpoint, I can just leave unprotected because that's not very privileged information. People could totally query it by themselves. It is also cached. I have multiple devices querying it. it will just update its answer at most once a second. And otherwise just return the old answer. Dave (24:54.882) got it. Got it. Dave (25:13.815) Right. Daniel (25:16.16) should be more or less DDoS proof. And yeah, that's how I did it. Dave (25:19.882) Awesome. Love it. Daniel (25:23.271) And what I also did is because now, the last few days I've been working from home, and I kind of missed that little thing. I didn't have a thing to look at for how much are the servers doing, how are the servers doing, right? So I built the tiniest of tiny SwiftUI applications that does the same thing in the macOS menu bar. Dave (25:45.71) That's wicked. It's really, really wicked. Are you going to release that? Daniel (25:47.071) But it's like, no, not at all, because it is very janky. is also like, it doesn't actually display the gauges because in the one hour that I gave myself for this project, I couldn't make it display just any SwiftUI view in the menu bar itself. I only could it to display either text or a SF symbols icon. So what I did is like the new generation of SF symbols icons, can take a value. Dave (26:11.406) Mm-hmm. Daniel (26:17.406) from zero to 100, and then they change based on that value. And some of them have like just like three steps, so they change on zero, 33, 66, and 100 or whatever. But I found one that is kind of like a gauge that takes, I wanna say 25 or 40 or 40-ish. And so just like, I'm just like saying, if this thing is taking more than 40 items, then it's just like displaying as full, or it will actually switch to a text display, but otherwise I have just like a. Dave (26:43.95) That's work. Daniel (26:46.654) tiny icon in my macOS menu bar that will just like update. Dave (26:50.2) That's really nice. Dave (26:54.498) Yep. I feel like you should open source it, but I know that would then lead to people testing your DDoSable endpoint there. Daniel (27:04.558) Probably. I'll have to think about what's the way of communicating the queuing status to our customers. Because it might be... Because before a few months ago, always said in the UI, I always said something like, oh, yeah, this is calculating. And now I actually switch to queued for calculation. And only if it has actually started calculating, it will update the text to... this is now calculating because it actually feels faster to know that, yeah, it's just like waiting for other things. And so I'm thinking, does it make sense to actually tell people like how many items are in the queue ahead of them? Dave (27:46.702) Mm-hmm. Daniel (27:47.624) But that might also feel unfair because some... Dave (27:51.416) Yeah, how many items doesn't necessarily feel like needs to be communicated? I would say you could do like what the congestion level is ahead in some fashion. Maybe, maybe, maybe smush that. Daniel (28:04.36) Maybe. And also I think I want to improve the queuing algorithm because right now it's just like first come first serve, but it needs to be fairer. There's a queuing algorithm that's actually called fair queuing that's used for network requests, I think, that will go round Robin on the different sources. And here I could go round Robin on the different organizations that actually want, like request a calculation. And that way it would be way fairer. Dave (28:10.818) Mm-hmm. Dave (28:19.906) Yep. Dave (28:30.69) Yep. Daniel (28:34.041) And I think that's also something I need to do at some point. But yeah, that's the story of the Galactic Unicorn. Dave (28:39.896) That's interesting. Nice, nice. Well, I don't know, Daniel, I definitely want to, I definitely want to get one. I'm not sure what I'm going to wire it up to yet. Daniel (28:54.343) That's the other thing that I had a similar cheap LED display thingy that was slightly programmable before. I forgot the name of the thing. But the problem was that it would only update its display when you actually HTTP post it to it. So you needed to have an actual computer running a piece of software that would make it display that stuff. And with this thing, once you put the program on it, Dave (29:13.742) Mm-hmm. Dave (29:19.413) Right. Daniel (29:23.313) You can just put it anywhere. You put a file on its disks that gives it the Wi-Fi as its ID and password. And it can connect with that. It just needs power. You can even power it off a battery pack, but it's also just like USB power delivery. So I have an old Apple power brick, think. That is just giving it the tiny bit of electricity that it needs. Dave (29:36.898) That's awesome. Dave (29:50.094) That's really cool. I need to figure out a use for it, think, before I go and buy one, but there will definitely be a use. But yeah, I'm looking, I'm wondering, could I, could it run some sort of shader type logic or something like that? Like, could I take one of those? Daniel (29:54.042) Hehehehehe Daniel (30:08.625) might be too slow for it. There are a few examples, there are a few code examples for it that do pretty nice animation. There's one that's called Flames that seems 30 FPS-ish and it looks like flames, like low res flames. But if you look at the code example, they're doing a thing where they're kind of increasing the... Dave (30:11.309) Yeah. Dave (30:19.976) Mm-hmm. Yep. Okay. Daniel (30:36.433) the voltage and the hertz of the processor temporarily. don't know if it's good for the thing. don't know. It might also be only on the Pico 1, which you'd be buying the Pico W2 version, I think. I don't know. So don't expect too much processing power, I think. But it's still very neat. Dave (30:41.63) you Dave (30:49.038) Aww. Dave (31:00.387) Yep. Excellent. I'm looking more and more into these things and around the edges of sort of, I guess, Raspberry Pi's really. I know there's a whole world out there of different single boards, but yeah, looking at the edges of this, because that is part of my longer term cross-platform exploration that I've yet to fully embark on. But one of the sort of stretch goals inside of that, if you like, is that Daniel (31:26.022) Mm-hmm. Dave (31:31.766) Hey, if I have this stack that runs multi-platform and it can run on Linux, can I make anything interesting happen on a Raspberry Pi or something like that? And there's. Yeah, on the more recent ones they have a GPU that is reasonable enough to play with. Daniel (31:44.509) Video processing? I don't know Dave. I don't know Dave. Daniel (31:54.788) Imagine like a Raspberry Pi and then you glue to it a Nvidia 5080 GTX DLSS whatever it's my god. Dave (32:02.878) Yeah, that's technically possible now actually because they've got a PCI extension for the Pi 5. Daniel (32:11.708) So this is where PCs are moving towards. It's just like a video card with a vestigial piece of processor. Dave (32:14.83) Yeah. Dave (32:19.234) That's right. Yeah, you really could. Somebody was running DeepSeek on a Raspberry Pi with a Nvidia graphics card attached that way that I saw on a... I'll see if I can dig up the YouTube link. It was quite fun. yeah, no, it's like I said, it's a stretch goal. I've not even properly started yet. But if it happens, the appeal here, Daniel, is that I could potentially take some of what I've got app-wise, put it onto... Daniel (32:29.519) You Dave (32:48.814) one of these devices and actually turn it into more of like a physical hardware box that purely just purely runs the software I put on it. And that could be fun because that was that that was my era man that was 20 20 odd years back. All the VJ hardware was kind of these little blocks of things you would connect into a physical mixer. So Daniel (33:15.406) I yeah, I feel like that might be coming back. Dave (33:19.798) Yeah, there's glimpses of it. Daniel (33:20.152) All the hardware is very proprietary anyway, so like new app might as well be a piece of hardware. Dave (33:24.632) Mm-hmm. Exactly. like I say, it's a pipe dream at the moment. It's out there as a thing. But well, we have a 3D printer in the household and you know, I'm not completely clueless with these things. So but we're Daniel (33:44.238) You have a 3D printer and you're willing to use it. Dave (33:47.442) Exactly. Exactly. But yeah, it's definitely out there. I need to get the apps going first. And that's something I did want to touch on on this show, actually. So obviously I took a bit of a pause to do household stuff in the last week and I'll get back to the multiplatform and the Linux soon and all of that. But in the meantime, I am getting support and feature requests for the existing app that is out there for iOS that's been out there for um ages and yeah i'm already kind of looking and going how much do i want to do here to support people while i'm on this sort of like break from the ios swift code base if you like uh and i think this is going to be a bit of a drug bit of a juggle because like any any sort of um any kind of split that you get like this You're building up the new thing. The old thing's still there, still out there in public. How much do you give the old thing to keep customers happy and to keep it trucking? And I'm looking and I'm like, I've had a couple of requests in the last week and I don't think I can get away with ignoring the old code base in the meantime. I think I'm going to have to keep cranking a few things here and there. So. Daniel (35:12.992) But no new features, right? Just bug fixes. Dave (35:15.474) Well, this is I've had a couple of feature requests that are perfectly reasonable that will literally help somebody do a show series of shows if you like. So they'll be using the app and out there with it. And I'm like, huh, I can support somebody directly right now and add a couple more screens that help with this thing. Or I can go on my little Odyssey that's sort of self propelled into this other stuff. Wow, already I've not even properly started and I can see how the tug of the two is going on, Any thoughts at this point other than Dave, what the hell are you doing? Daniel (35:53.337) Huh. Daniel (35:57.017) It's a tricky proposition. You want to be more multi-platform, but you have the existing thing. And especially you have someone who's a fan of yours, who's using your product and who would really like some help with that. And I totally understand that you really want to help them. I think I would probably do it time-wise. Do you track your time at all? Dave (35:59.832) Mm-hmm. Dave (36:08.216) Mm-hmm. Dave (36:12.045) Yes. Dave (36:22.638) Not too much, no. It tends to just sort of be drips and traps here and there, but I probably should, to be honest with you Daniel, just to get a grip on it. Daniel (36:29.593) because that's probably how I would approach this. Like give myself a limit to always have more, like put in more time into the new thing than the old thing, or have like, you know, like a ratio like two to one. And yeah, maybe something will open up that you can also like combine the two as early as possible. Dave (36:41.536) Mm-hmm. Dave (36:56.461) That's not bad shout. That's really not a bad shout. And I think that that actually is probably what I should do to sort of, I guess, make sure that I'm, that the gap between the two doesn't widen or that I sort of feel like, okay, I'm now double coding. You know, I've added this screen in the existing app. Well, hey, I need to add that into the new code base. I think I can see a route there that would actually be doable. So maybe this looks like, okay, I scaffold up my UI. I get that working, which is the first step, right? That is, that is what I need to do. Can I make my UI work regardless of the actual functionality of the video mixing side of the app? And then beyond that, to sort of bridge this period, can I inject the existing stack, the existing actual video mixing part inside of that UI? And then start to control it from the Kotlin and the Compose side shooting into the Swift side to then control what it's doing. It feels like maybe more work and less of a clean break, but I'm wondering is there maybe that middle route in the middle of this so that I can then keep shipping in one way or another. Daniel (38:24.054) I seem to be good at nerd sniping people these days. Dave (38:27.238) yeah, it's a nerd's night. It's absolutely a nerd's night. But it is, I would say it is definitely worth me spending, you know, 10, 15 minutes with a coffee, kind of trying to run through the thought process of this. Yeah, but the thing here is that I don't know if the new video stack is entirely going to follow the same sort of Daniel (38:28.888) You Dave (38:55.531) methodology is the old one. So then the actual mapping of UI and everything else could end up being quite top heavy. This is like versioning an API, Daniel, effectively. Yeah. Daniel (39:03.654) yeah, that gets complicated fast. Maybe you should have like functions that are called like V1 shader thingy. API versioning is the bane of my existence, I tell you that. But I'm doing it. Dave (39:12.994) Thinking about it, thinking about it. Dave (39:20.158) Yeah, there's a route here actually, thinking about this and you have thoroughly nerds-naked me in the middle of this conversation, so that's great. So I have MIDI control in the existing app. And one of the ideas for that MIDI control was that eventually I would add open sound control, which is a, I believe it's like a TCP IP or HTTP based. Daniel (39:28.908) You are very welcome. Dave (39:48.12) kind of method of control. do it over network. And I know that with OSC, you can lay out a bit of a, a bit of an API and you can deliver Jason payloads that give the, give the mappings of things. So you can have say, I dunno, channel a slash effect slash the effect number, and then a value that gets dropped in the payload to try to update that effect. Daniel (40:17.463) That's kinda neat. Dave (40:17.55) yeah, so I could literally build, if I built that out, I could have an API for the control of the app. Yes. Yes. An abstraction layer that buffers whatever the hell is on either side. yeah. Anyway. Daniel (40:25.195) What we need is an abstraction layer. That's always what we need. Daniel (40:35.895) I like that. I won't let you like devolve too far into that though, but I need to tell you a bit of follow-up. I need to tell you that Lisa knows that we know that she knows. So a few episodes ago, I told you that it turns out that my co-founder Lisa actually listens to this show. And so she knows that sometimes I do work that is not exactly in the order Dave (40:41.942) Yes. Go for it. Dave (40:50.894) Dave (40:58.424) Mm-hmm. Daniel (41:05.655) that we discussed, would do the work. Because sometimes I pick a tiny bit of software up and I work on that because it feels way more fun than the boring stuff. Dave (41:15.948) like a menu bar app. Daniel (41:19.657) Right, but that was like, I do time tracking and that was less than an hour or so. Dave (41:23.734) play, fair play. Daniel (41:25.429) on. And we also said into the microphones that if Lisa was actually supposed to listen to the show, she should send me a unicorn. And she did send me a unicorn emoji and even a picture of her with a cardboard unicorn. Dave (41:42.7) Yes. With a... Dave (41:48.394) That is an awesome cardboard polygon like designed unicorn there. So yes, hello Lisa and we know that you know that we know that you know. Daniel (41:52.107) Yeah, right. Daniel (42:04.533) Yeah, Lisa also knows that tomorrow morning I will be going to the office to be available for an interview with her. Dave (42:05.774) This is going to get complicated. Daniel (42:16.663) So that's really nice. Yeah, and I just want to share this. I really didn't expect, I completely forgot about it. And then suddenly, Lisa shit sends this picture of unicorn. And I was like, what does that mean? Huh? of course. Dave (42:19.534) you Dave (42:30.904) Yeah, I forgot. Yeah, I totally forgot that we'd asked. do you know what I love? I'm looking down the replies that we gave her there and we both pretty much kept the same reply. Daniel (42:43.339) Yeah. What's that on Masuda? Can we share the post? Cool. Cool. And then I will look it up. All right. Do we have any other follow up that we want to do? I don't think so. Dave (42:47.65) Yes, yes we can. Dave (42:52.887) Alrighty. Dave (43:01.312) I don't think so, no. Daniel (43:04.15) I'm going to tell you this one thing that I wanted to tell you before, because it's just like, it doesn't matter. It's too small to keep in the show notes. So I bought a thing. I bought an AirTag for my wallet. So it's a card sized AirTag. It's not produced by Apple, so it's not officially an AirTag. It's just like a device that links into the AirTag ecosystem. yeah, and I discovered, like because of the Dave (43:17.486) Mm-hmm. Dave (43:29.604) I didn't know they existed. Daniel (43:34.302) the format is kind of open sourced and it works really well. So like you open your find my app and you say like add, you say add and then it asks like, you adding an AirTag or an AirTag compatible device? And you're like, no, I'm adding a compatible device. And then the UI is slightly different and it will just like add it. can like name it, you can give it an emoji as an icon. It works perfectly. The thing is, I wanted to buy this thing of a company that sells these in Europe. not going to name the name because it's not looking so good for them. And it was out of stock and it cost 45 euros, I think. So pretty expensive. And so I talked to my friend Florian, who is somehow a participant in these shows every now and then. And he's like, yeah, why don't you just order it from Aliexpress? And I'm I never ordered anything from Aliexpress. I did. It took Dave (44:12.066) OK. Yeah. Dave (44:22.392) Mm-hmm. Dave (44:28.942) Ha ha ha. Daniel (44:33.152) Five days, I think they have a redistribution center somewhere in the area apparently. And it cost me eight bucks. And for eight bucks, I was willing to throw the thing away if it didn't work, but it's actually exactly the same thing. is like, if you look at all the product photos and all the little details and everything, it is exactly the same thing. It just doesn't have a printed logo on the side. So it's like unbranded basically. Dave (44:37.72) Yes. Dave (44:43.394) Bye. Dave (44:52.974) Mm-hmm. Dave (45:01.982) man. Daniel (45:03.217) And so I'm like, don't even feel bad because probably the same company produced this. It's just like the, the distribute distributor in between has been cut out. So I don't even feel bad that I didn't buy this off the, off the European company. Dave (45:13.165) Yeah. Yeah, it's the same sort of thing. I'm looking at them. Daniel (45:17.973) It works just as any AirTag would, but it doesn't have all the functionality. So AirTag, it takes have like three types of functionality. They can make a sound, they can hook into the AirTag network so it can find them on a large scale, like where in the city is my AirTag. And then they have to find nearby thing, which is with NFC, I think, or no short wave radio. And the last thing, this thing, Dave (45:29.71) Mm-hmm. Dave (45:42.222) Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. Daniel (45:47.327) doesn't have. I can't find it. It will notify me if I lose my wallet, if leave it in the tram or whatever. And I can also make it make a sound, but I can't visually find it in my apartment. the sound is enough for the apartment finding, I find. Dave (46:03.766) Yeah, I was going to say that that's enough. And I'm looking at the pictures here and you've got it goes in the wallet like a credit card. Daniel (46:12.499) Right, it's shaped like a credit card. You charge it. It's rechargeable too. You charge it by just putting it on a T-charger. Dave (46:16.118) Yeah. that's awesome. Yeah, that is really awesome because actually it kind of kind of bugs me when things are sort of e-waste by default. this is not that. Yeah, I kind of want one. I put an airtag in my wallet, but the trouble is, that it kind of only basically works. Like, I'm not sure if my wallet is actually blocking it. from being properly trackable. So yeah, definitely be interested in trying one of these. Fantastic. Well, that's right. And we get good delivery times as well from AliExpress I've had within the week, which kind of blows my mind. But yeah. Daniel (46:54.772) I mean, you're way closer to China than I am, right? Daniel (47:09.556) I mean, yeah, I was, I had like a really bad conscious because like shipping something from halfway across the world, it's not very environmentally conscious, but I kind of like, it was kind of like, my excuse is that the thing itself was probably already in Amsterdam by the time I actually ordered it. But still, I don't want to do this all the time, but it was kind of neat. Dave (47:16.647) Mm-hmm. Yep. Dave (47:27.021) Yes. Dave (47:32.238) Mm-hmm. That's cool. That's really cool. well, you've got two things on my shopping list this episode without us having sponsorship. And you've nerds night me. Mm-hmm. Daniel (47:40.916) If you want to sponsor this show, email contact at waitingforreview.com and with the subject line sponsorship, you too are fantastic and lovable and you deserve all the money in the world. It needs to be the exact subject line or we will just auto delete your email. Dave (47:52.736) Absolutely, yes. Dave (48:06.634) Absolutely. Actually, I'm sorry. You also need a unicorn emoji on the end of it as well. Yeah, on that note, Daniel, read us out, mate. Let's do the outro. Daniel (48:10.669) yeah, of course. Daniel (48:15.995) Right, I will. Thank you so much everyone for listening. Please rate us on iTunes, us, like thumbs up us on YouTube, send us emails to the email address I just mentioned, contact at waitingforreview.com and also join our Discord. The link is in the show notes. Dave, please tell us where people can find you on the internet. Dave (48:39.694) Good question. I reckon the best place right now is probably to check out my Instagram. And that is usually where I post things about my app more than anything else. It is lightbeamapps.com spelt D-O-T-com or one word. I'll link it in the show notes as always. But Daniel, how about yourself? Daniel (48:59.347) Fantastic. Yes, I kind of always go back to the Macedon account. So find me at daniel at social.telemetrydeck.com where I control the complete experience, which is kind of nice. Yeah, fantastic. Have a wonderful day and see you soon. Dave (49:09.038) Mm-hmm. Dave (49:13.666) Awesome. Dave (49:17.378) Will do. Take care, Daniel. Daniel (49:20.167) Bye! Dave (49:27.822) boop.