Daniel (00:00.878)
Okay, I have like two more seconds to think of a cool intro. No, it's too late. There's no cool intro. Dave, hi. Fantastic to see you.

Dave (00:08.151)
Hey, how you doing? Yeah, that countdown goes by very quickly.

Daniel (00:14.414)
Like lame intros are what this show is known basically. So it's really good to see you. Good morning.

Dave (00:22.411)
Good day.

Daniel (00:29.762)
Your German is getting better by the second. So is my Spanish, by the way. I'm on day 70 or so of a Spanish Duolingo streak.

Dave (00:32.695)
incrementally.

Dave (00:39.566)
Brilliant, brilliant stuff. I didn't use Duolingo.

Daniel (00:41.006)
Yeah, that app is getting better and better at using gamification against me.

Dave (00:47.583)
Yeah, yeah, my kids have used it and I don't use it because the owl man, I've seen the adverts.

Daniel (00:57.416)
Yeah, it turns out that they have new courses and the new courses are way better at avoiding the thing that always annoyed me with Duolingo, which is like, yeah, we're just going to do very like quirky random sentences that have no meaning because then they're kind of funny and more easy to remember. And also we're never going to explain any grammar concept at all. They kind of stepped away from that.

So now they have like these lessons that are based on like, you're in a restaurant. So here are all the restaurant phrases and you're traveling. So here are all the traveling phrases. And also every, I don't know, few bubbles, there's like a short video that says like, here's how to talk about grammatical gender in Spanish or something like that. yeah, thumbs up. a friend of mine, yes, also a friend of mine invited me to her Duolingo family.

Dave (01:26.217)
Okay.

Dave (01:40.791)
Okay, so you're getting a lot of context, a lot of useful stuff.

Daniel (01:47.7)
So I don't have to endure the adverts because those are hard.

Dave (01:51.959)
Fair play. learning, learning Espanol for you and I'm learning, I'm slowly learning a new language but it's not, it's not a spoken language, it's a development language but we'll talk about that in a minute because as you know, no, no, no, I mean

Daniel (02:00.088)
See.

Daniel (02:14.721)
I was gonna guess it was New Zealandish, but it is not.

Dave (02:20.829)
Yes, I have a whole lot of work to do at some point learning Torayo. I know little bits of the Maori language, but I'd love to know more. yeah, that is on the list, but I don't know if TuroLingo is finally supporting that or not. But the language I was thinking about was a technical one, but I am not going to talk about that until you've introduced the show, Daniel.

Daniel (02:37.58)
Would be cool though.

Daniel (02:47.246)
Hey, welcome to Waiting for Review, a show about the majestic indie developer lifestyle. Join your scintillating hosts to hear about a tiny slice of their thrilling lives. I'm Daniel, paper craft enthusiast and chief water drinker at Telemetry Deck. And I'm here with Dave, thought leader, rebel and advertising lead at Lightbeam Apps. Join us while waiting for a view.

Dave (03:15.841)
that just roll off the top of your head because I was not sure what to expect there

Daniel (03:18.412)
No, I was lying when I thought... I was lying when I said I didn't have anything prepared.

Dave (03:23.863)
Well, what an intro.

Daniel (03:28.79)
Right, indeed. So I'm water drinker enthusiast. So let me get a sip of water while you tell me about the new language that you're learning.

Dave (03:38.891)
So I'm very slowly picking up bits of Kotlin and compose. So I'm on my multi-platform learning arc, which I'd love to do in a three minute montage, but doesn't seem to be possible in real life. Yeah. So I hit up the Kotlin multi-platform documentation, started having a poke around and a look. made my first

Daniel (03:47.363)
Mm-hmm.

Dave (04:08.449)
Hello world project compiled and ran it on my Android device and then compiled and ran it on my iPhone. Okay, cool. It's behaving exactly the same on both as you'd expect. That's sweet. What do I do next? And I ran head first into, I have no idea what I'm doing. I don't know how state is managed through this stack. don't know.

Yeah, all manner of different things in terms of how it actually works. I can get so far with chat GBT, but I don't really want to do that. I kind of want to understand the stack that I'm potentially working in. So long story short, I'm now going through the Android documentation for classic Kotlin and compose. She's basically the same in terms of how it operates.

because that is a pretty well documented and a reasonable intro into all of this. So I'm at hello world point one in terms of my learning and my arc. Yeah. But this is

Daniel (05:18.52)
Fantastic.

Daniel (05:23.128)
Do you have a specific project in mind that you want to build this this technology, or is it just like noodling around at this point?

Dave (05:33.449)
Ultimately, I want to rebuild everything that I've got in the app store in a way that then lets it run on Android as well. So there's probably two or three routes that could go. Number one is that I just keep the existing iOS stack with SwiftUI and everything else. That is working. That's it. And then I rebuild Android separately. That's our possibility. And that's probably going to be what I do sort of initially.

to be honest with you, but there's, a whole load of technicality to actually making this thing work. You know, I've got to have my video effects. I've got to have every, everything in terms of how the pipeline and stack works for the existing app. And so that's the project. That's the goal. I probably need something less ambitious to at least sort of learn and then go and reapply that learning.

But I don't really have that right now. So at the moment I'm at the, just want to learn stage.

Daniel (06:37.25)
Maybe, maybe you should really, because this is a very unique idea and no one has thought of this before, maybe you should like try to build a to-do app.

Dave (06:46.135)
Yeah, or a note taking up maybe. Yes. Yeah. Yes, maybe.

Daniel (06:50.505)
yeah!

Daniel (06:58.166)
Okay, but serious or more like, yeah, let's say it's a serious question. So when I see Android apps, a lot of the time, my very pampered UI loving mind is kind of annoyed at the fact that seemingly less thought has gone into the user interface than would have on like a typical iOS app. Is that like, now that you're kind of in contact with the technology, is that like...

coming from the technology? Is the tech just guiding you towards a less awesome UI, or is it just the developers who develop for Android? Or am I going to get thousands of hate comments for this comment?

Dave (07:41.271)
Yeah, at the moment I'd say I don't know enough to really reply in any depth. But my gut feel is that for the apps that lean all the way into material UI and the design language that's offered through that, you'll get a good Android experience. That seems to be the divide now. Anything that's gone hard out into that end of stuff then starts to feel more homely on Android.

and as I understand it, if once you've got things all nicely set up, you can kind of get an approximate sort of experience back for the multi-platform app, over on Apple environments as well. So at this stage though, I am learning and I, like I say, I think I need to do my little

to do app or something like that to really understand the edges. Yeah. But yeah, but what yeah, but my gut feel is like, you're not wrong. Like certainly in the history of Android apps, from what I can see, there's, there's a real variety and approaches and UI. Whereas over in Apple and you know, we've got a lot of stuff that's on the rails for iOS that sort of helps you.

Daniel (08:39.28)
yeah, I totally get that. I don't want to push it into any direction. I'm just really curious, even though it's slightly inflammatory.

Dave (09:05.547)
helps you not make too crafty an app. You do still see them out there, though, if you look in certain categories in the app store there.

Daniel (09:11.628)
Yeah, but it feels like there's less of them. Of course, there's a certain type of computer enthusiast, basically like your typical Linux guy. And I can say that because I used to be your typical Linux guy. If they make a UI, it tends to have a certain time of very utilitarian look. And that's what you see sometimes in IRS.

Dave (09:15.968)
Yes.

Dave (09:21.27)
Hehe.

Dave (09:28.396)
Yep. Yep.

Daniel (09:41.898)
like whenever I look at someone's phone, it's either material style app. So it looks like Google mail or Gmail, or it looks like Linux. Maybe not Linux guy, maybe Linux person. don't know. So like the question is like, does this come from somewhere? Like, yeah, that's the question we need to explore over the next 48 episodes of this excursion.

Dave (09:57.323)
Yeah. All right. Yeah. Sorry, go on.

Yeah, yeah.

We'll see. In my opinion though, I don't think it's the stack that fully leads that. I think it probably has been elements of not maybe in the past and you've got apps that have got that sort of lineage over in the Android side. But as I say, of gut feel is that, yeah, those that are leaning into the material side of stuff will feel more homely.

Daniel (10:37.25)
And so if you say material design, that's like the design of Google's own apps, right? So does it look the same on iOS and Android then? Like does it look like Gmail or Chrome or?

Dave (10:43.649)
Pretty much, yeah.

Dave (10:51.627)
Yeah, at the moment that's where I'm at. yeah, all the tutorial stuff, it's not really, it's not smoothed out to be looking like it's UI kit on the iOS side. This is where I will for my own app, dodge a bunch of this to some degree, because if you go and look at Govj in the store today and the UI and the dash that it's got, is

very much like I say the dashboard. It's very much like a dashboard app. You've got controls, you've got triggers, you've got buttons. And if you look at, say, music hardware or virtual instruments, for example, it shares more with that end of things than it does with, a beautiful to do app, for example, that utilizes all of

Daniel (11:46.509)
Mm-hmm.

Dave (11:47.923)
Swift UIs, bells and whistles and all of the design language that we've got. So to some degree, I can step to the side and go, I don't really care whether it looks fully native or not, because actually it's not that sort of app. You know, as long as the dashboard works functionally, if you've got non-native looking settings, screens and things like that, that are sort of the side of the main UI, I don't believe my users are really going to care.

to be honest with you, as long as it works and it's letting them mix their video and do their thing. So to some degree, what I'm making is sitting outside of needing that, if you like, in terms of what it does. So I'm not not in your typical category of them wanting to have a purely native, purely, you know, Apple or Android design guide orientated app for this. So.

Daniel (12:29.526)
Yeah, totally get that.

Dave (12:45.153)
There we go. I've just got a thumb up on my camera. Thank you. But yeah, so I think that's probably all I've got to say on this topic for now. I'm very much at Hello World. It's it's fun. And. I think I would recommend to anybody very firmly in the iOS camp who's listening to this game, what the hell?

Daniel (13:04.843)
Mm-hmm.

Dave (13:14.743)
Try it. Have a look. Download Android Studio. Have a look at some of the tutorials. Give it an hour or two of your time just to have a steer around what it looks like. Because what I'm finding is the more I'm learning about, say, how the Compose Stack works and how that drives itself with state and everything else actually lets me reflect on the bits that I know about in the Apple Stack. And I'm kind of grafting

concepts from one side to the other and it and it's expanding my knowledge base and i don't think that hurts anybody to sort of have a bit of a play like that so yeah

Daniel (13:56.982)
I like that. Does this? How does this fit with your business goals? any, is it just like, is this more like the motivation is just like, okay, I want to learn something new and be less beholden to Apple? Or is it here, there's a business opportunity.

Dave (14:07.061)
It doesn't. This is the

Dave (14:15.965)
It's it's not well, it's a business opportunity once I feel like I can actually do it. But that could be a year away. You know, that could be two years away before I actually go, OK, I'm going to start going, you know, serious about this for the moment. It's extracurricular. It's you know, I'm basically sending myself to night school to learn a bit of this stuff.

Daniel (14:42.166)
night school. Night school. It's like school but cool and neon. It's like, with nights I was like, I was thinking like cyberpunk or something. Welcome to night city, where kids go to night school.

Dave (14:46.436)
No jousting.

with nights like.

Dave (14:54.827)
Ha

Dave (14:59.733)
I mean, the two concepts could be merged. They could have like neon jousting sticks and stuff, Daniel. That could be a thing.

Daniel (15:05.454)
I like that. Yeah, let's have that. Anyway, I'm very much looking forward to hearing your stories from the other side. The only experience that I had with that whole stack is when I built the, I didn't even build the telemetry deck Kotlin SDK, like our friend Constantine built it for me, but I wanted to write documentation for it, so I kind of built.

Dave (15:34.551)
Mm-hmm.

Daniel (15:35.616)
a minimum viable app that was just like, it needs to be able to run and there needs to be a one button that triggers anything. And so that's the extent of my Kotlin and Compose knowledge, which is incredibly tiny, but still it was a fun experience.

Dave (15:57.675)
Well, we'll see. Maybe in a few episodes time we can come back to the topic and you can see whether I've pulled out my remaining hair in the process or for anybody who's not watched the YouTube, I have very, very little hair on the top of my head. I buzz it down, but yeah, it's either going to be that or it's going to be like, woo, I can see how this is working. I'm hoping for the latter.

Daniel (16:07.586)
You

Daniel (16:26.37)
Fantastic. I forget to ask this before we started recording, but are we going to talk about...

Daniel (16:39.138)
Are we going to talk about servers?

Dave (16:42.007)
Do you still hate them or do you love them Daniel?

Daniel (16:46.318)
I always hate servers. I always hate servers, but they're a fantastic means to an end, is providing our customers with cutting edge solutions to drive synergy and create, I don't know, create. Maybe I should create synergy and not drive it.

Dave (16:49.14)
Okay.

Dave (17:07.095)
Well, if you're to use words like that, Daniel. Yeah, well, I think we'll circle back to that one at the end of the day.

Daniel (17:15.16)
No, no, we're gonna put that in the parking lot. Anyway, servers. What has been happening in server land is that ever since a few months ago, our Telemetry Critics main servers, the Druid ones, the ones that are causing all my hair to go gray, are living in AWS land instead of Azure land. But all the rest is still living in a Kubernetes cluster in Azure land because it's been working-ish and...

I wanted to get the Druid situation under control before I touched that. But now the Druid situation is under control. So we've been sitting down and just converting every single Kubernetes container into a standard Docker container that then can run on Amazon's elastic container service. And so that is now already, every single service and API container is now ready at

Dave (18:03.063)
Mm-hmm.

Daniel (18:14.638)
API.prod.telemetrydeck.com, API.staging.telemetrydeck.com, and so on. so I've been setting all these up, and I've been testing all the APIs. And they're just waiting. And tomorrow morning, I'm going to sit down on my computer, and I'm going to push a button. And that button is going to change the DNS entry from the old servers to the new servers. And then signals will hopefully be flowing to the new servers.

Dave (18:34.487)
Mm-hmm.

Daniel (18:42.254)
And our customers ideally should notice nothing because the main databases and everything has been moved like weeks ago. But yeah, it's going to be exciting. I'm going to be watching a lot of dashboards.

Dave (18:58.101)
Love it. I kind of get this like mission control sort of mental image of yourself.

Daniel (19:02.19)
Yeah, I'm bringing my iPad to the office, and I have the big screen, and also my laptop is going to be open, and then my coworker's laptop as well. And yeah, it's going to be a bit mission control style. We have various Grafana dashboards for the more technical stuff. We have various telemetry dig dashboards for other things that we're monitoring, because some of the monitoring for telemetry dig is done in telemetry dig. And, ooh, it's.

I hate everything about servers, but I'm learning more and more and I'm more and more able to do things right. And I want to do them right because I want this to be super stable and smooth so it can go back to the cool fun stuff as soon as possible.

Dave (19:47.851)
That's awesome, Daniel. And I'm looking forward to seeing some of this. think you're thinking about maybe recording a little TikTok video or something that shows your mission control.

Daniel (19:56.655)
You have the funnest idea. mean, I can tell you a bit like because I am going to record it or not, but this this show is going to come out after. So I have this this big red button that when I press it says various not safe for work things like that was bull thing. Bull crap, bull crap.

Dave (20:19.489)
We can say this. I don't mind. I'm not going to bleep you.

Daniel (20:23.718)
and so I'm going to bring that to the office and instead of just like clicking a button, I'm also going to hit that button, hit that huge red button and then like record me. And then hopefully the signals will like start to start to trickle in and then rush in as more and more of the DNS gets updated.

Dave (20:45.015)
Brilliant. Well, I'm look, hoping it will go smoothly. Looking forward to seeing the big red button video, Daniel. And I'm, and obviously I'm hoping DNS doesn't fail you too much and it's a resounding success. I'm envisioning a, yeah, we've launched it kind of like, you know, in the control room.

Daniel (20:54.796)
Yeah.

Daniel (21:09.998)
Yeah, the thing is, like, I'm hoping that too. Like, the thing is, like, in theory, all this architecture works, but, like, some of the things that we do, hey, Mimi, Mimi's visiting. You're very lucky to have been visited by a tiny gray cat. So, like, many of the things that we're doing, you can only test them under load. Like, you can only test it if, like, 25 million people are sending data to it. And that is...

Dave (21:23.825)
you have a cat coworker. Hey.

Daniel (21:38.966)
On the one hand, pretty cool. On the other hand, like sometimes you find you can't find the problems easily because, or you can't predict what's going to fail. So I've kind of like over provisioned everything, like all the machines are like at least one size bigger than they need to be, or like one more than they need to be, stuff like that. And so, yeah, let's see.

Dave (22:00.905)
And you can bring that down after the fact, right?

Daniel (22:03.872)
Exactly. Exactly. also like, like just like that's why I'm doing it in the morning because the morning German time is like when the least the least traffic is happening. And also I'll be able to just monitor that whole thing the whole day from from like mission control basically. So that makes me a tiny bit more, more relaxed than I would be otherwise. Because like that's one thing that I learned, like so many times I'm like, it's the end of the day, but

Dave (22:26.315)
Awesome.

Daniel (22:31.95)
I'm not, I'm not 100 % finished. So let me just do this one last thing. And then the one last thing is like, huh, now I've triggered an avalanche of followups that I can't leave because there's no jumping off point now. And suddenly it's like 2 p.m. 2 a.m.

Dave (22:45.971)
Mm-hmm.

Dave (22:49.879)
It's the don't release on Friday kind of moment. it's that, yeah. you're making me realize that I have shipped Govj 3.4 and I've not really celebrated or done anything to kind of like officially launch it. mean, yeah. Dang it.

Daniel (22:53.516)
Yeah, exactly.

Daniel (23:07.214)
No, that is deplorable Dave. Like what do you usually do to celebrate? what's what's a like do you like open a bottle of champagne? Do you like, I don't know, throw your hat in the air and do a little dance?

Dave (23:21.175)
I could throw my hat in the air and do a little dance. No, I haven't done anything. I think maybe there's a steak or some sort of like hot chicken dish that I would have that would be like, yeah, this is the celebratory meal. Because I don't really drink these days, but no.

When I say I've not really done anything to celebrate it, what I'm really thinking though is that I would normally like really push the release and I've released it, let it crank through the app store. I posted a video to Instagram about it. So I've not completely ignored it. But I've yet to like hit up my mailing list or really post several videos about what it's doing. Cause actually I could.

Daniel (24:17.322)
isn't that the one with the audio reactivity?

Dave (24:20.553)
It is. Yeah. Yeah. So.

Daniel (24:21.902)
So it's especially important to push that because lots of people are going to be super impressed by it and be like, yeah, this is actually what I need to be doing.

Dave (24:27.475)
It is. Yeah. Yeah. That's my job for this weekend. So as we record it's, it's Thursday and yeah, I just feel like I need a bit of time to just pull a couple of good videos together and then get them out. And when I do that, cause releasing to Instagram or Tik Tok is becoming relatively easy for me. The followup exercise that ends up getting lost is then doing the same thing to the mailing list.

and to hit up all the other areas. So I guess I'm going on record so that next week you can turn around to me and say, Dave, did you actually do the marketing push for your app? And the answer has to be yes.

Daniel (25:08.738)
Yeah, I was expecting to hear about it today. Like, Dave, like really, you need to do this. It's very important. You know, like people need to really hear about liberty, equality, audio reactivity.

Dave (25:12.321)
Yeah.

Ha ha ha.

Dave (25:21.623)
yes, yeah they do. It is fun to play with and I think that's what I really need to show people. watch this space.

Daniel (25:33.782)
It is fun to see you play with it. You gotta show the work. This is super important. Also, you worked so hard on that feature and put in so much effort. And you always tell me, Daniel, you gotta show what you're working on. you gotta eat your own medicine. Drink your own medicine? Eat your own steak.

Dave (25:44.727)
Mm-hmm.

Dave (25:56.703)
I do take my own medicine. yes.

Daniel (26:02.434)
I'm kind of waving with ESA mission patches.

Dave (26:08.04)
Yeah, it's a thing, right? The doing of the dev is the bit that I really enjoy and then the actual promoting bit is like, god, do I really have to? Even now, I still feel like that.

Daniel (26:27.014)
Because like last last week you were like you sounded very much like yeah this actually no no I feel I've you know you sounded like you've got it figured out like you're like yeah it's like do the thing and it works out and I do other videos and the content

Dave (26:40.245)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And now it's like, I know what I've got to do, but it was easier to just release hit an Instagram video and then go, okay, I don't want to think about that right now. So yes, I definitely need to eat my take my own medicine. You've got me saying it now, eat my own medicine. But I will. And hopefully by the time this show goes out, I can attach a few things to the show notes to show what I've actually done.

And if listeners of the show are looking at those show notes and they are bare, feel free to send me a comment and tell me off.

Daniel (27:11.17)
Very good.

Daniel (27:17.806)
you

sent Dave messages saying, Dave, I was really hoping for some cool Govj Pro audio reactivity content.

Dave (27:32.267)
Yes, it will be, Dave, eat your own medicine.

Dave (27:40.321)
So.

Daniel (27:40.942)
Yeah, that's going into the list of the titles or the possible titles.

Dave (27:44.265)
It is.

Daniel (27:48.488)
I ate my own medicine because I did not, well, haha, partially, because I did not do any marketing content in the last time that we spoke. But what I did do is I had a very long talk with Lisa about managing the roadmap because it's finally time for me also, among all the server stuff, to return to regular scheduled service.

So what that means is like, just like talking about like, are the next features? And the next few features are like, are all like boring stuff, but that's really important for the business.

Dave (28:15.927)
Mm-hmm.

Dave (28:28.128)
right.

Daniel (28:29.484)
Like, I have almost finished, like, I've had this branch laying around for months now, which is a rework of how our customers pay for telemetry deck, because we want to go to a volume-based pricing. And that has been there for billions of years at this point. And I need to finish this, like, finish the UI, finish, like, test it all, and get it out there, because there's just a certain class of customer who

Dave (28:43.895)
Mm-hmm.

Daniel (28:57.1)
who doesn't want to start paying right away, which I really understand. And also for some of our customers, it's actually hard to, like, because we have these pretty steep steps, like once you've kind of like maxed out your plan, like you get a really sharp bump up to the next plan. And if you can make this a bit smoother and you only pay for what you're actually using, and if your usage is going up because your app is more successful, then you can, like, you just like, will go up gradually with the volume of data that you send.

And then that's good for us, but that's also good for our customers. And so that's what I'm going to be working on in the next few weeks. yeah, it's so hard sometimes to go back into this mode where I try to be like, I've had chaotic weeks, but I was like, I'm going to concentrate on the server stuff because that's the most important stuff. Now the server stuff is almost coming to an end.

Dave (29:36.628)
Awesome.

Daniel (29:56.286)
And the temptation is very big, not only for me, but also for my coworkers to jump in front of me and be like, this is just a tiny little change that I need. Like someone asked us on Twitter if we could do this, or not on Twitter, on social media. I'm just using it interchangeably. Or someone like, can we just have this very tiny change somewhere? And I'm like, I'd love to have all these tiny things, but.

I like we need to have like some order again because like otherwise I'm just like pulled in 17 different directions. So I'm going to be reinforcing again the roadmap and what's not on the roadmap doesn't get worked on. so if you have a thing that you want to include in the programming, especially if it flows through my fingers, then it's going to have to fit in somewhere with the items on the roadmap. And so the next two items are like new pricing structure and then just like

basically a large ticket of just like fixed 70 to 80 bucks. Bugs and like, we have like one project that's called Bugs and Papercuts. And I think it's high time to like, and every time someone like reports an annoyance or something like something not working right, I just like add it to that project. And yeah, it's time. The pendulum has to swing to just like making things a bit.

Dave (31:04.631)
You

Dave (31:09.825)
Yes.

Daniel (31:25.646)
pretty are a bit more easy to use and also just like reducing the paper cuts a little bit. And so those are the next two items on the roadmap. And they are not glamorous, they're not glorious, but they need to be done.

Dave (31:39.413)
Yeah, and it's good that you're now going to get some time to go do them. Like, it must feel good to be on the other side of that pendulum, even though there's a fair bit of work to do.

Daniel (31:44.259)
Yes.

Daniel (31:48.206)
Yeah, the thing is like after those two items, there are like fun things on the roadmap, things I really, really wanna work on. Things I'm like, that's gonna look so cool. Like I kinda posted a sneak peek at some navigational analytics the other day on the Macedons, where I didn't even comment on that thing. was like, I had this interesting revelation about how traffic moves on the Telemetry Deck website. And it was just this multi-dimensional graph.

Dave (31:55.841)
Mm-hmm.

Dave (32:05.207)
Mm-hmm.

Daniel (32:16.646)
of movement between different nodes on the website because I wanted to kind of just sneak peek that graph. I wanted to sneak peek that graph into a screenshot. So yeah, I really want to go back to work on that prototype and make this into a more actually usable thing. But the gods.

have put the boring stuff first because that really needs to be done. And by the gods, I mean like me and Lisa basically, we're the gods of telemetry.

Dave (32:48.727)
Yeah, yes the trouble with being your your own boss as it were

Daniel (32:55.715)
Yeah.

Dave (32:59.196)
well, I'm looking forward to seeing that. I'm just chasing up your mustard on actually in trying to see, see where it was, but you can link it to me. Cause I feel like we need to link that one.

Daniel (33:08.238)
yeah, I'll look it up. I'll look it up in a minute because it's been a few days ago, I think. Other than that, I actually managed to get in a feature that's been half finished for a while. so basically, last Friday and this Monday, wasn't able to work on the servers because I had to wait for my server worker colleague to finish some stuff.

Dave (33:13.984)
Yeah.

Daniel (33:37.772)
And so what I did is I was like, I'm gonna finally finish the revenue cat integration feature. And this is an old hat for you because you've been hearing about this feature for a while. So what it is is like you add a few lines of code to your app that is using revenue cat. And then you also add the telemetry deck API link to the revenue cat web hooks feature.

And that in combination will send RevenueCAD events to TelemetryDeck. And what I've now finished doing is I have created a dashboard in TelemetryDeck that will basically analyze your RevenueCAD data. And that's going to be released in the next few days. And that's pretty cool because it looks very nice. It looks very nice.

And also it gives you a lot of information right away. And some of that information you can't even see on your normal RevenueCat dashboard. Also, it tries to be smart. When you open up the feature for the first time, it's looking at your data and it's like, OK, are you sending revenue data using the Telemetry Deck SDK? Because that's also possible. Or are you sending data or getting data from RevenueCat?

Dave (34:45.001)
Okay, I'm curious.

Daniel (35:02.994)
And then it kind of decides which mode to switch to and then just sticks to that mode. And if it doesn't detect any of that data, it will just show you the documentation, how to enable either feature. The thing is, I wanted to make this really pretty, but I was missing a few things. things that our query language kind of couldn't do. And I was like, I'm sorry, I gotta do this. So I added...

two new features that sound big but are kind of tiny. First one is value formatters. You can now add to any telemetry query that you hand write. There's no UI for this yet, but you can add to any telemetry query. You can add a value formatter object. And that controls how to format numbers at the very end of the process. So all the numbers need to be just numbers.

during the whole calculation, also, when we display charts. But once you display the number on the screen, like on a tooltip or on the side of a chart, you can now add this value formatter. It supports currency and units and stuff like that. And you can round stuff. Basically, it's just a dictionary that you give to JavaScript's value formatter function. But the query supports it, so it will hang onto it.

put it into the query, the query was passed through all the different parts of the system so it can come out at the other end. So that's pretty cool because finally people can round stuff or if you have monetary values, you can actually have a dollar sign or a euro sign there. So that's pretty cool. And the other thing that I added was a scan query. So all the telemetry queries so far, time series, top end and group by, they only support aggregating data.

So all the data that you get is always like a, like, okay, in total, the number of things was like 17 or whatever. But except for the very custom made, here's your list of recent signals view, you cannot get a list of just like signals or events. That is what the scan query is for. So scan, like query type scan just means, all right, it's a select asterisk from table name.

Dave (37:17.526)
Right.

Daniel (37:27.586)
SQL query basically. you just like say, okay, give me these columns with these filters, order them ascending or descending by time, and that is it. That's pretty cool because if I put that in a table, I can show you like the recent payment events or all the recent revenue cut events. But also the same like this is you have to handcraft your query for that as of now, but you can also use that in your own queries.

Dave (37:45.473)
Got it. Yep.

Daniel (37:56.162)
You can just like have a query that just shows you the list of whatever events now.

Dave (38:02.583)
That's cool. That's really cool. How does this wire up? I, sorry, just think it through. Like, could I route this in a sense of going, I've got to these, I'm just trying to think through how I would want it. you've got the, you've got the funnels in there at the moment and.

Daniel (38:06.974)
Also, yeah, no.

Dave (38:31.147)
Sometimes what I want when I'm looking in a funnel is to be able to highlight a bit and then go, okay, but what's that made of here or there? I'm just wondering if that would be something that could be done as well. Like, hard for me to put my finger on it. I think it's a case of going, like if I wanna know where somebody went next and there's multiple options of where it goes to next.

Can I also then put a scan on that end bit using the same filters to then show a table of that?

Daniel (39:04.654)
No, can't. What you really need is for that is like a segmented funnel, like what is called a flow. And that is also part of the navigation analytics ticket, but that comes after the boring parts of the road.

Dave (39:10.423)
Mm-hmm.

Dave (39:22.783)
okay, so it's in the fun side. That's fine. Yeah.

Daniel (39:25.282)
That is one of the fun things that I really want to do. The graph is the one thing, but also multi-dimensional funnels or segmented funnels is a cool thing for analytics people.

Dave (39:34.945)
Mm-hmm.

Dave (39:39.499)
Yeah, yeah, definitely. So I'm registering my interest Daniel when you've got that together. Let's demo it on the show.

Daniel (39:47.948)
Fantastic.

Daniel (39:52.866)
Fantastic. yeah, one last thing that I also added to that screener that I want to continue doing in the next UI overhaul or whenever I work on UI is all the pre-made charts. You can't change them right now, right? They're just pre-made. They're just there. But all the new ones that I added, what I did is there's a copy button now that allows you to copy the query so that you can copy that query and then just paste it into the main dashboards area and create a

Dave (40:15.991)
Cool.

Daniel (40:22.402)
like create the same chart, but ineditable. And I think I want to go a bit more in that direction. Like at some point, like, like it could be even more customization, but I want to start slow. I just want to be like, okay, people are going to be like, okay, how do you get that data? And I'm like, here, that's the query for it. So at least like you can start at the same point that I started at and maybe learn a bit more about the query language, maybe just like, like, just like

Dave (40:27.157)
Okay.

Daniel (40:49.902)
change things slightly, stuff like that. So I'm hoping that will be good.

Dave (40:56.887)
That's really cool. I sort of feel like I want like a query playground of some sort or scratch pad type bit where, you know, you could do that and then copy those things out to then lock them in. It's almost like I can see your roadmap, even though I can't. That's cool. That's really cool.

Daniel (41:12.066)
That's also on the roadmap, but a bit further down.

Yeah, yeah.

Dave (41:24.767)
I'm looking forward to all of these things Daniel and yeah it's going to be good to see. But I feel slightly on the hook after our earlier conversation I've really got to pull my finger out with the videos and the releasing of my app that feels. Yeah I slightly embarrassed that I've not.

Daniel (41:42.883)
Yeah.

I'm going to sit down later and write a like announcement blog post for the Revenucat integration. And then I'm kind of hoping that our friends at Revenucat will also like publish something about us, which was really great. Like we haven't talked about it yet. But yeah, just like, just like get a bit of publicity out of auto auto about that whole feature as well.

Dave (41:51.447)
Mm-hmm.

Dave (42:07.401)
Awesome. Well, we can ping each other later outside of the show to check that we've done our homeworks as it were. But Daniel, I'm going to have to wrap up the show. My day is starting on this side as is the balance of time zones and everything else. The day is finishing on your side because you're up in the Northern Hemisphere and I'm all the way down here in New Zealand.

Daniel (42:14.497)
Hahaha.

Dave (42:36.523)
But yeah, before we go, Daniel, do you want to do the outro send us out?

Daniel (42:43.374)
I do, like, like that whole balance thing kind of reminded me of something from my childhood, which is, there's this whiskey called Johnny Walker and they had a German language ad campaign when I was young. Like it was just in the, the TV ad campaign. And I don't know. Like you just reminded me of that because it was always like, like, you know, some, some guys, I was a guy like just like sitting down, like, and it's the evening. So he's kind of.

like pouring himself some Johnny Walker or something. And then the voiceover always goes like, the day goes, Johnny Walker comes.

Daniel (43:27.47)
And so yeah, my day is going.

Dave (43:27.639)
You

Dave (43:32.561)
Fair enough.

It is indeed. man, that was the long way around there, Daniel, but I love it. So are you going to have a whiskey now to close out your day? Has that triggered a response?

Daniel (43:46.836)
I may, do I even have, I used to be so into whiskey, but that's kind of died down because I want to be, I have less opportunities. But yeah, I might actually, actually, I got some whiskey. All right, I want to say goodbye, but I can't.

I have a problem with the Apple Notes app that contains the outro. So all right, here we go. It was unresponsive for a second. Anyway, this is the show. Thank you so much for listening. Please rate us on iTunes. Please give us a thumbs up on YouTube. Do not click the stupid bell. I forbid it. Do not click the bell. Send us emails at contact at waitingforreview.com. Join our Discord. The link is in the show notes.

Dave (44:17.623)
Ha ha ha.

Daniel (44:41.422)
Alright Dave, where can people find you?

Dave (44:43.911)
you can find me over on Instagram with the username lightbeamapps.com. That's spelled lightbeamapps and then dot is D-O-T com. You can also find out all about my apps over just at lightbeamapps.com everywhere that good websites are served in your browser. But how about yourself, Daniel?

Daniel (45:09.923)
Fantastic. Let's look blue sky this time. Like I have a new blue sky account that is somehow like over the last few days, suddenly gained a lot of followers. So let's keep that going. So that I'm on like I somehow break the system was already taken and I think I might have taken my own account because I sometimes do that like, there's a new social social app, like I'm just going to register break the system and then forget the password.

Dave (45:18.807)
Mm-hmm.

Dave (45:27.767)
Yeah.

Daniel (45:36.034)
But so I'm break the system and blue sky, but there's a dash between break and system. So right in the middle is a dash. So break th dash E system and blue sky follow me there or just go to telemetry.com because it's maybe a bit easier to spell. All right, Dave, it's been fantastic. See you around. I have a fantastic day. May your day, may your day come.

Dave (45:59.894)
You too, mate.

Dave (46:06.027)
Wow, what a way to finish the show. I'll catch you next week, Daniel. Take care, mate.

Daniel (46:11.661)
Bye.

Daniel (46:15.416)
That was the climax of the show.

Daniel (46:25.486)
You