Dave (00:00.162) times. Daniel (00:02.526) We are starting a quick time recording just in case. And the mic, the mic is on and the quick time is recording. Dave (00:07.896) starting the quick time recording. Dave (00:14.066) Hey, nice. Nice. Yes. Cause my QuickTime defaulted to AirPods Pro. we are. We are live. Daniel (00:16.415) We are live. We are live. my God, I don't have a bit of the week. What I do have though is wet hair because I just returned from a leisurely bike ride and now I had a shower and I still have slightly damp hair, which is fine because it's still summer. Like the last vestiges of summer are still there. Dave (00:30.946) A leisure leap I cried. Dave (00:36.805) well. Dave (00:41.324) Well, good for you, Daniel. It's the last vestiges of winter here in New Zealand. True, true, true indeed. No, actually we've had some nice days here that sort of hint at like a bit of spring, maybe, maybe. I must have told you this before, but Wellington gets two springs. So everything kind of goes like. Daniel (00:46.048) You see, like it's getting better for you, whereas I'm going into the darkness. Daniel (00:59.627) Mm Daniel (01:09.312) Go home. Dave (01:10.872) I say this like it's a proper thing, it kind of is a proper thing I guess, but like it's so you end up with like it's spring everything's kind of nice and then no it's not. So you get about two weeks of that and then about probably four or five weeks at least of it being really windy, really rainy, really not very good and there's an interesting there's an internet meme that describes the wheel of the year with Wellington Seasons and you have Spring One and Spring Two and in the middle, that bit in the middle is called Shitsville. Daniel (01:49.184) Hahaha Dave (01:50.562) Ha Daniel (01:53.355) I like that. I like that. Dave (01:54.797) Yeah, which I will find it, post it to Mastodon and link it up because it always amuses me. And every year I'm like, come on now, that's just a silly internet thing. And then every year we get this blip and I'm like, it's not that silly. It's a... Daniel (02:11.41) Do you know what causes it? Is it like, I don't know, currents from the sea or winds or dragons? don't know. Hobbits. Dave (02:16.457) I - dragons probably, yeah, I have no idea. I'm assuming it's some sort of like cycle with Antarctica or something that blows weather up our way. But, yeah, never, I haven't looked it up. Daniel (02:28.928) pretty cool though like you get like a sneak peek at spring Dave (02:34.868) You can, you really can. Daniel (02:37.526) Very nice. Speaking of Wellington, I got flirted at by a kiwi yesterday. Dave (02:43.058) Okay, okay. Daniel (02:44.276) Yeah, I'm going to tell you after the intro. Hey, welcome to Waiting for a Review, a show about the majestic indie developer lifestyle. Join your scintillating hosts, Dave and Daniel, that's me, and let's hear about a tiny slice of their thrilling lives. Join us while waiting for a review. See I can do the teaser too. Dave (03:06.808) You can but now you've teased me I want to know. Keep going Daniel. Daniel (03:12.076) All right. So as you may know, as a frequent listener of the show, I like telemetry deck is now hosting all our stuff on Amazon AWS. And like last week or so that my contacts at AWS, because you kind of get like assigned a, like a technical representative and a just like business representative. both, both of those are very smart, sympathetic and actually pretty nice people. And. They were writing to me like, hey, there's an event in Munich at the AWS center. Do you want to come? It's nice, it's social, and it's outdoors. And so I'm like, you know what? I am going to come there. so I went to the building and it's very nice. It's like, I don't know, 10, 20 stories maybe. It had a fantastic rooftop with a really nice view over Munich. like late afternoon, was like, there was vegan food even. drinks and stuff. I actually also, I was like, not gonna drink anything because I kind of got to take the train back and I probably got to leave early. But then I met a buddy who's like, who's like, hey, you're here. Cool. I can take you back in my car. I'm like, So Dave (04:17.026) Nice. Dave (04:38.026) Mm -hmm. Daniel (04:41.228) I actually met a few potential customers and actually maybe someone whose customer I will become because they're a company that helps with compliance to various standards and security protocols and stuff like that. And I think one of the next topics for Telemetry Deck is NIST 2 compliance, is, I don't even know what it Right now I don't even recall what it actually is, but I think it's computer security. You've got to comply with it then, like it's better for especially large customers. So yeah. And then I talked to this very nice person from Amsterdam, who's the founder of the compliance company. And we all have these badges. usually when you, and then it says like my name and usually what's underneath my name on these badges is telemetry deck. Because like, Usually you apply for a slot on these events and then it will print a version that you can enter a company name and they will just print it on there. Somehow they didn't do that. Instead, well, I think what they wanted to print there was this person as any visitor has to be escorted from the front desk to the location of the party. But what it said was, Daniel Jirg, Escort. Dave (06:14.47) Okay. Daniel (06:15.678) So while I'm having this conversation out of nowhere, like this tiny woman comes out of comes comes up to me and is like, are you really an escort? And we get to talking and I'm like, yeah, of course, but you can't afford me. And we get to talking and she's a Kiwi, but she's been living in Germany for ages and whatever. And yeah, like she kept trying to negotiate a price. I'm just, I don't know, like buy a steak in telemetry deck and then we can talk. Dave (06:31.682) Hmm Dave (06:50.641) wow Daniel, I wasn't sure what to expect but... Daniel (06:52.086) But that was, that was. That was really fun. Like if the whole startup business doesn't work out, like it's nice to have like a backup to follow for full backup. Dave (07:02.888) Mm -hmm. Absolutely. I'm picturing you now arriving to these things sort of like wearing a suit. But you know, like this is sort of like, yeah, yeah, yeah. it's Daniel Yilg escort. Daniel (07:12.64) But no shirt. Dave (07:22.648) man. Daniel A .Somarmote. Daniel (07:22.924) Hi. Daniel (07:32.844) even better, right? Anyway, yeah, that was pretty fun. And yeah, I I met I met some cool people. I had a few beers. And I still came home early enough to get to bed to get to bed at a reasonable hour. So that was kind of nice. Dave (07:41.29) Mm -hmm. Yep. Dave (07:51.16) Excellent. Well, at least you know you've got a backup business plan and yeah. And you actually came back with customers for your actual business, which is cool. Or potential customers, yeah. Daniel (07:57.28) Yeah, yeah. Daniel (08:05.834) I mean, like they haven't signed up yet, but like definitely leads. Like we, I met, we have an advisor that does, that advises us on mostly business matters, but also a bit on sales and like technical stuff. And so this guy was at this event and I didn't even realize. I just went there and suddenly he's like, you here? And I'm like, you here? Dave (08:10.829) Mm Daniel (08:32.566) Cool, awesome. And so what he kind of did without me realizing this at first is he kind of just started putting me in front of people. one was like, this is Daniel, he does telemetry. Can you tell them about that little nice little technological detail that you told me about? And I'm like, yeah, of course. know, the double hashing prevents any personal identifiable. And I don't know, I'm just very excitable about hashing. Dave (08:51.672) Hmm Dave (08:59.489) Yeah. Daniel (08:59.7) And so, yeah, was, was, and that seems to have like that, was like, we were like a really good team in that because he kind of broke the ice. And then I could, I could talk about stuff that is, that is very interesting to me. And like, with a few people, especially with these technically minded people, like that were at this event, like it just clicked a lot of the time and they were like, yeah, I gotta, I gotta have a look at this. like a few people actually signed up just to be. to subscribers to the newsletter. A few other people connected with me on the best social platform, which is LinkedIn. yeah, and a few were like, yeah, we need to talk about with our bosses or whatever, but they seemed very interested. So that's kind of nice. Dave (09:34.655) Mm -hmm. Dave (09:45.704) gonna debate you on the best social media platform there. I did note, sorry this is a bit random Daniel, but I noticed that LinkedIn has short form videos. They've done the same as Instagram, TikTok, YouTube. They've got Daniel (09:48.644) Hahaha! Daniel (09:58.454) Mm Daniel (10:05.95) Ooh, I'm gonna post my TikToks there. Dave (10:09.805) You could do. And yeah, it just occurred to me we've got shorts for the show that you've been putting on to TikTok as well. Daniel (10:18.004) yeah, totally. Yeah, I'm gonna have a look later if the platform that we use has the ability to posts to most platforms. I'm gonna have a look at if they support LinkedIn as well. That would be pretty neat. Dave (10:26.621) Mm Dave (10:35.68) Yeah, that'd be kind of fun. It's, yeah, anybody listening or watching, I'd be very interested to know if you've come across any of our TikToks, because they have been going out for a little while from this show. Daniel (10:51.964) If you actually see me talking right now in a short form video and not on the main podcast, leave a comment immediately. Say hi. Also, if you're in a car honk your horn twice. Dave (11:05.709) Nice. Daniel (11:05.996) for analytics and stuff. Speaking of TikTok though, I actually, I was going to post more TikToks, but then my week got kind of hectic with all the events, but also I saw a TikTok that was like a data race, a line chart race basically. So, you know, like you probably have seen this before if I describe it to you, like it's a chart, but it starts empty. And then the lines start appearing and like they, take a while to get to the end. And it's, looks like the chart is like zooming out, zooming out, zooming out. And usually there's a surprising development. Like the one I saw was like, I don't know, population sizes of the different European countries or something like that. And I was like, I can actually do that. So I kind of sat down and tried to make a data race, TikTok kind of chart, basically is just a line chart or whatever. Dave (11:51.309) Yeah. Daniel (12:05.158) And then I kind of got distracted and posted. It's not finished yet. Look for this. Look for it on the on the short form video platform of your choice in the next few days. Dave (12:09.996) He he he. Dave (12:16.812) Nice, nice. What's it charting, Daniel? Daniel (12:23.87) I like basically I was still in the pros. Like if I built this once, I can use it to charge any chart a few things. I was going to use it to chart just like iOS major version over time. But also I really want to look at vision pro users by country because especially by country, it's kind of disappointing still. Like it's not a flop flop. Dave (12:44.972) Yes. Daniel (12:51.274) But it's just very stagnating, you know? Dave (12:53.057) You Yeah. Yeah, I just have nothing to say about the Vision Pro right now. Like I'm sort of waiting for it to... yeah. Daniel (13:03.73) so sad. The hardware is so cool, but the locked downness in combination with the App Store policies in combination with the fact that even Apple is not putting out any content to run other thing. And then you look on eBay and you can buy them for half the price. Dave (13:10.093) Mm -hmm. Dave (13:19.33) Yeah, yeah. Daniel (13:25.472) which I mean go a bit lower and I'm like, come on. Dave (13:28.322) Yep. Dave (13:32.504) Maybe, yeah. I don't know. don't know. It's yeah, we could talk about that, but I'm not gonna. We've got some new devices on their way probably within a few weeks. So yeah, the Apple event is imminent. I think I checked it's from when we're recording it's about 10 days away. So, but I think when Daniel (13:45.988) yeah. Dave (14:01.452) This show goes out because we already have one ahead of it. It'll be either just happened or on its way, like within a day or two. So yeah, new iPhones. It looks like it's just the season. Daniel (14:17.482) Yeah, the tagline, I went on apple .com because the tagline was something with glow, I think. And it doesn't say the tagline here anywhere on apple .com. Dave (14:27.372) OK. Dave (14:32.92) Hmm. Daniel (14:35.914) which I was gonna make fun of the tagline because it's something about glow. Glow, glow, glow, I don't know. Okay, I'm not gonna find it now on the air, which is kinda disappointed. Hang on, I'm gonna make rumors. I'm sure they have something. Dave (14:54.39) Yeah. Dave (14:57.976) having a quick look. Daniel (15:00.704) Because I have thoughts on this, but... Daniel (15:09.046) I want to make fun of it in the correct way. Dave (15:16.308) Well while you compile your thoughts I'm just having a quick scan myself. Do you know the only thing I think I'm really truly excited for is a potential update to the iPad mini. Which is such a specific little thing. It's such a cute device and I sort of feel really disappointed that they've kind of left it mired like on older hardware now. Daniel (15:30.79) okay. Why is this? Daniel (15:36.948) It is. Dave (15:44.598) I mean, what, was the, was it the first one? Hang on, the latest iPad mini was the first one to go to USB -C out of the mini range. And it has support for the pencil as well. And yeah, like I said, it was just a a really fun little device. I found that I had one when I was working in my previous job, had one as a test device. Daniel (15:55.051) Mm Dave (16:13.548) And when I left, I kind of wanted to keep it. It was like just this perfect little thing. Daniel (16:17.154) Aww. I was always, I used to be a fan of the big iPad, the 12 inch one, but actually I can totally see that because especially recently, I have a lot of the time I have my laptop with me because just in case like the server needs me basically. But I feel like especially now where we're not on Kubernetes anymore and a lot of the stuff that I'm doing is just in a terminal. Dave (16:23.777) Mm -hmm. Dave (16:38.081) You Daniel (16:50.346) I could probably do certain emergency work just with an iPad. Like I can do a bit of emergency work on the phone, but not enough actually, because the screen, like what I would need actually is a iPhone Pro Max that kind of folds up. Like have you seen Westworld, the TV show? They have these phones, like it takes part in the near future. Dave (17:12.396) I've not, no. Daniel (17:17.1) and it's about robots and stuff, but they also have these phones and they are not front and center, but you just see them, like someone will have a phone that kind of looks like an iPhone, just a slab of metal, very thin, but then they put it down on the table or something and it folds up like left and right and it becomes a tablet. I mean, that is just the perfect, that would be the perfect device for me. And I guess like that is probably 20 years away, but, Dave (17:17.432) Mm Daniel (17:46.892) Like something similar like that. Like I was very skeptical of foldable phones and tablets for a while because of the crease and everything. But I feel like I'm ready. I'm ready for a foldable device, which Apple is not going to announce. if like this year, and even if they were to announce it, it would be like 3000 bucks or something because it needs to have like two screens, right? But Dave (18:01.132) He Not this year, Dave (18:10.422) It would, yes. Daniel (18:16.222) It's nice. It's nice. Anyway, I found the title. I found the tagline. It's glow time. It's glow time. And the logo for that is a very stylized Apple logo in the style of the new Siri, which is the glowing Siri, right? And that was my thought. It's like they are not even going to ship the new Siri and the new intelligence features. Dave (18:38.113) OK. Daniel (18:46.092) until iOS 18 .1. So it's not gonna ship with the new phones. So what exactly is glowing? And also like, it's still not sure if they're gonna ship this in the EU. They might not. Like apparently in the newest betas, if you just switch your language settings to English, it's kind of back, but I mean, that's kind of weird too. Dave (18:51.83) No. Dave (18:58.327) Yep. Dave (19:09.776) dear. Daniel (19:12.896) But yeah, like what exactly is glowing here? Dave (19:18.61) Yeah, yeah, okay. Can you link me there? need to just take a quick look. Daniel (19:27.04) I will put it in the show notes. So I'm going to link it to you and also our millions of listeners. Dave (19:32.278) listens. Indeed. Okay, so I see the glow. Yeah. Daniel (19:36.277) Got it. Daniel (19:40.364) We're glowing with excitement, says Greg Joswianke. Glowing with excitement. The thing is, it's actually time for me to get a new iPhone. Mine is the 12. I have the 12 Pro Max. And it's still good, but I feel like I can just right now, I kind of have four to get a new one. And... Dave (19:42.188) Indeed. Dave (19:48.472) But yeah. Dave (19:52.919) right. Daniel (20:07.872) I feel like I'm due for a camera upgrade especially, and a battery upgrade too. So yeah, I'm going to, like, if there's nothing like this completely anti, I don't know, if they announce a thing where it will just like stab your hand twice a day to draw blood and send that to, for DNA tests or whatever, like, it's very likely that I'm gonna get this one. Dave (20:15.938) noise. Dave (20:28.693) You Dave (20:35.096) Mm Dave (20:38.466) Nice. So you're gonna go to like the Pro Max side again. Yeah. You like big phones and you can't deny. Daniel (20:39.776) but I'm still disappointed. Yeah, yeah, I'm a big phone person. Daniel (20:50.796) That is correct. What I also like is colors. So currently I have the 12 Pro Max in dark blue, which is the most colorful an Apple Pro phone has ever been. And apparently, if you can believe the rumors, the new ones are just going to be either metal or black, light gray or dark gray or space gray. I think the color names are different. And I think there's also one that is Dave (20:51.659) Okay. Daniel (21:16.62) called, I want to say bronze or something, it's just like slightly saturated gray. So I don't even know which color I'm going to get because all of those sound so incredibly boring. Dave (21:22.018) Yep. Dave (21:28.576) You could just have to get a case at that point, right? And just add color with a Fair, fair. It is a nicer way to run the phone, but... Daniel (21:32.278) But I like being caseless. Daniel (21:42.049) You just like walk around your naked robotic core just out in the breeze. It's just a nice feeling. Dave (21:48.344) Damn it. Daniel (21:51.08) It's although actually like for the for I have a case for the bike. So for biking, I have this case that that's by quad lock, not a sponsor yet, where you can just attach it to the handlebars, which is kind of nice. But usually if I'm not on the bike, I have the phone completely without a case. So let's see. I might just get a case or something. But. Dave (21:55.478) Yes. Okay. Dave (22:12.492) I've got the... Dave (22:16.248) I've got the 14, the 14 pro and I've got it in a clear case. So I kind of can see the, purple. Daniel (22:24.301) it's the purple one. that is nice too. Dave (22:25.846) Yeah, yeah, it kind of had to happen and it's timed for my 40th birthday as well. So yeah, it was, was a nice, nice circumstance, but I don't know if I will upgrade it. I, I'm curious to be fair. I am actually curious about the new phones and, and, you know, we've had a few shows where I've sort of expressed quite bordering on anti -Apple sentiment these days, right? In terms of how they're behaving, but You know, my iPhone is still my favorite device and you know, the camera is my default camera. don't have anything else that I'm taking photographs with right now really. So that could get me to an upgrade within the next few months. But I think I would probably end up doing what I did two years ago, which is just waiting. a little while, like waiting for the initial rush to go see how people enjoy them, especially this year, especially with everything that's sort of coming with Apple intelligence and that side of things. If I wait a couple of months, like 18 .1 will be out and all the initial reactions to everything that they're adding in with iOS 18 for the new phones, like that will all be there. For me it's a wait and see. But I can understand if you're right in the market for a new phone, day one's probably quite exciting this year. Daniel (24:02.774) I mean, let's see if it's really day one. But yeah, I'm excited to get a slightly improved phone, like especially with the slightly improved camera and just like a new thing. At the same time, I'm wondering like what can they even do? Like what is, it feels like there hasn't been a really big innovation with the phones for a while now. And there are rumors of foldable iPhones, but they're at least a year away. Dave (24:05.869) Mm Dave (24:26.081) Yeah. Daniel (24:32.084) if not longer. So the question is like... Dave (24:32.414) at least, and if they have them, they've been kept very, very secret in a lot of ways. Daniel (24:38.826) Yeah. So the question is like, what will they even do? Dave (24:43.19) Yeah, and I don't have a good answer for that. Daniel (24:44.532) It's just like the three burner stove is going to get bigger and it's probably the, what's it called, the magic island? the island thingy is going to get smaller. Dynamic island, of course. Dave (24:50.498) Yep. Dave (24:55.16) Yeah, the dynamic island. Dynamic island. Yeah. Yeah, I really, really don't know Daniel. It's yeah, this is the other side of things with the phones now is I think unless you're feeling very much in the market for an upgrade, you know, for a camera for better battery life or a bit more speed or whatever, then I certainly feel like annual upgrade cycles are just a bit silly now in a lot of ways. Daniel (25:26.538) Yeah, thing is you kind of convinced me or at least whetted my appetite for an iPad Mini now. So if they release a new one, I am gonna look inside my soul and see if I can truly, truly think that this would help me in the job. And if yes, then maybe I will have to talk to my boss to buy it for me, which is myself. Dave (25:33.786) Mm -hmm Yep. Dave (25:52.778) Your boss. Yes. Daniel (25:54.747) Actually, I would talk to my coworker because that's one of those things where we kind of sanity check each other every now and then. Dave (26:00.728) Hey I'm gonna expense this thing to use in this way yeah I think if you do that it would be a like it would be the iPad mini with a pencil you know like like that would be the right route because I feel like that's where it then becomes a little bit more alive in terms of note -taking and that Daniel (26:14.87) Why the pencil though? Dave (26:27.778) things like, cause it's just the right sort of size to hold like a pad, like a small paper pad. And I suspect you might get a lot out of that. Daniel (26:38.186) Hmm, because I'm not sure, because Alex has the regular iPad with the new pencil and like she gets a lot of usage out of that, but I'm just, like I tried it, it's very technically impressive, but like my handwriting is just so bad. I just, I wanna type, you know? Dave (26:44.781) Mm Dave (26:55.453) Maybe not then, maybe not. Yeah, fair, Well, you could always, assuming they're compatible, could always borrow Alex's pansalency. Yeah. Daniel (27:07.138) yeah, totally. And I think I have one of my, I have the old pencil, but that will, will that work with new iPad? too bad. Too bad. What else were they announced? Do we have any rumors? Dave (27:11.7) Mm -hmm. No, no, almost guaranteed not. Yeah. Dave (27:21.196) There's always rumors, but. Daniel (27:23.196) All four of the new iPhones are expected to have the customizable action button and a new capture button for taking photos that will have built -in gestures such as swipers zooming in and out or a soft press for autofocus. The capture button will be on the right side of the devices below the power button. All right, that's kind of neat. Dave (27:28.343) Okay. Dave (27:43.734) Yeah. Daniel (27:44.812) A18 chip, no other major new features are expected for the standard phones. The Pro lineup will get an increase in display size, going from 6 .1 and 6 .7 to 6 .3 and 6 .9 inches. 5X telephoto zoom, also an Apple Watch with a thinner design, but the change won't be radical. Daniel (28:13.8) New models of the airports, but not the pro apparently. Dave (28:19.168) Yep, figures. Daniel (28:22.433) That's all that MacRomers has to say. Also someone said something about an iPhone SE, but it doesn't say it in this MacRomers article that I also linked in there with Charlotte. Dave (28:35.682) Well, you know, they can space some of these things out as well as the other thing. There's nothing to say the SE has to drop at the same time. Daniel (28:42.316) You know what's going to happen? They're going to release the pro phones in the super boring colors and then I'm going to buy one and then about 14 seconds after it arrives, they will announce like a second charge of the pro phones in cool and exciting colors coming out just before Christmas or something. Dave (29:00.152) Yep, yep. That was the the other year they did that with the regular iPhone 12. There was an update that then brought it out in purple. And I was absolutely suckered right in for an upgrade on that one at the time. So that was my previous phone to the 14 Pro. So I don't know. mean, if I upgrade then... I'm gonna break my purple phone streak, which is meaningless. Daniel (29:34.636) How long has that purple phone streak been going on? Like how many purple phones do you have? Are there other purple phones? Or is it just this one? Dave (29:39.753) Two, so three and a half years. Daniel (29:49.119) You should just get a purple case then. Dave (29:52.118) Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Daniel (29:53.846) Purple Case, Purple Case. Dave (29:56.816) Daniel, Daniel, right, okay. We are way, way into Weeds. This show has gone all over the place. Daniel (30:04.116) We are talking about Apple stuff, so that counts. yeah, we should probably get back to the show notes or the topic list, which says, Dave, build something. Tell me about what you built. Dave (30:07.648) It does. Dave (30:15.862) I'm building something. hopefully by the time this show goes out, I'll either have it already in the store. Yeah. Daniel (30:20.372) yeah, like Apple Notes is showing your icon, like your face, like in front of the word building and so I kind of misread it. Dave (30:27.327) Mm -hmm. Dave (30:31.128) That's fun. Yeah, so we spoke on the last show about the designs that my friend Chris, I commissioned the designs for this bit of my app from him. He's given me the Figma files. I've got a lovely Figma demo. So I'm often just trying to stand this thing up now as per what Chris designed for me. It's coming together quite well. It's probably not much value to listeners for me to talk through audio descriptive as to what it does. But the biggest, I think the biggest thing about this change is it's moving from a very constricted design to a much more flexible design. And already I'm kind of feeling even now I've, I've stood it up. I've got a list with all of these effects in. There's a preview at the very top. and I'm about to add the controls. So when you select an effect, a panel pops up from the bottom and you're able to then control the effects from there. And it's already feeling nicer as I'm playing around with my development version. Yeah. So I'm hopeful this weekend I'll get a test flight build out. Daniel (31:48.406) Fantastic. Dave (31:57.65) And either by the time the show is out, that test flight build will either be something I can link so people can have a look on the test flight, or I may well have just gone all the way through to production and landed it in the store. So we'll see. This is one area of the app. If I get it nailed and it's working nicely, then there's no big deal in terms of them pushing it through as the next update. Yeah, we'll see. I really need some user feedback on it before I can send it out into the world because it is a pivotal area of the app. But so far, I'm loving it. I'm going to get it to test flight really quickly, hopefully. And then also I'm going to have just a good play with the app myself. And I'm kind of looking forwards to that. Something that is kind of ironic, I make this app for mixing video. It's for live VJ performances to music. And I make very little time to do that with my app. So I'm always working on it, but not playing with it. So yeah, that's me. But it's, I'm trying to think of what's probably been interesting with it in a sense of, Daniel (32:57.184) Mm Daniel (33:09.514) Yeah, I get that. Dave (33:25.534) like listeners can take a look at the design when it's up in in test file or the store but yeah for me it's proven out a few things as well like earlier in the year I did a big migration with SwiftUI out of the design pattern I was using before and into more of a straight SwiftUI by numbers sort of approach And so I had quite an involved design pattern before it was my router design pattern. And I unpicked all of that, cut out a whole load of the dependency injection, started just using environment objects and let's say very much vanilla SwiftUI. And that keeps bearing fruit. Like again, I've wired in this screen to test. passing all of the state and everything to it in the way that it needs to receive. And it's let me kind of hot swap this screen in place of the old one very easily without having to worry too much about anything else. So yeah, I think that's just something to note is I went that route to make it really easy to keep working on my apps in my spare time. And it seems to have been the right thing. I really, I do really enjoy SwiftUI for all of that. Daniel (34:57.118) Nice. Imagine going back a year. Like, you probably wouldn't have said that last sentence. Dave (35:03.634) No, probably not. But I'm enjoying the fluidity, right? It's one of those things where when you lean right into it and if you can forgive the rough edges that it still has here and there or work around them, then the fluidity that you get back in the middle is just a really enjoyable way to program. For me, at least. I know some people hate it. I love it. Yeah. Daniel (35:29.864) I totally get that. No, I totally get that. Also, the thing is about environment objects as compared to dependency injection. Like, I'm actually doing a similar thing with the web front end application for telemetry deck, where I'm kind of moving away from a pattern where it injected everything into other, for better word, views. They're called components. They're about this. They basically switch UI views. Dave (35:52.972) Mm Daniel (35:59.23) also moving to what's there called services, but it's basically also environment objects. And I'm like, this is so much better. You just place the component there and it just reacts to the environment as it should. And I was like, I always thought that would make things less testable. And it actually doesn't. So it's kind of nice. Dave (36:12.631) Yes. Dave (36:22.668) Yeah, yeah, and I think it's one of those things, For me, with this migration from, I had a whole blog post, I think I've still got that up, but from the router design pattern that I had, the evolution of that was sort of twofold. At the time I laid down that pattern because, Yeah, I didn't really trust the way SwiftUI was actually pushing for dependency injection. Didn't believe that it was giving me what I needed for sort of testability. And in my day job, we very much needed to ensure that we were testing quite a bit. And there was a whole lot of other constraints as well. You can look up the blog post I had, but I tried to make it a least messy approach to this sort of stuff, right? In terms of I figured that eventually things were going to get to a stage where what I wasn't getting from SwiftUI would be there and I would be able to kind of move out of that pattern. And obviously I don't work in that job anymore and I hope they've probably done something similar now. with Govj with my app. That's what I experienced earlier this year. And that sort of evolution from what I had has now happened. But there is something there in terms of my approach to dependency injection was informed from UIKit, right? And informed from what we didn't have in UIKit for that end of stuff. Daniel (38:15.094) Someone looked at my code earlier this week and was like, are you building the UI responder keychain in JavaScript? And they were right. Dave (38:23.768) Yeah, yeah. So yeah, the first couple of guys are building an arc design pattern for SwiftUI was informed by design patterns like the coordinates pattern for UI kit and approaches to dependency injection that I'd experienced with that. And hauling away from the router pattern earlier this year and into, like I say, vanilla Swift UI, if you like, and leaning on the environment and environment objects. It feels like the last sort of vestiges, if you like, of UIKit are starting to drop from my headspace. It's still there. I built an app with UIKit a couple of months back. That was my Looper app. because I wanted it to run on iOS 12. But yeah, I don't miss that mentality, if you like. The more I lean into what SwiftUI offers, the happier I seem to be when I'm coding on these things. yeah, you're right. Maybe certainly two or three years ago, I wouldn't have quite expressed it like that. I felt very much like this was a thing that needed to be controlled and contained. And now I feel more like, yeah, I lean into it. It's actually quite good. Mmm. Daniel (40:00.3) Pretty good. I actually, I have, are you done? Like because I just remembered I did something this week. I actually like, I had a very eventful week as in like social events and stuff like that, but I actually shipped something which is a beta version of revenue cat integration. Dave (40:04.48) Yeah, yeah, yeah, go for it. Dave (40:22.547) Ooh, nice. Daniel (40:25.025) I worked with the very lovely people at RevenueCAD and there's a beta of this right now where you can configure your app in a certain way and then what happens is every RevenueCAD event such as subscriptions or cancellations or uncancellations even will arrive in your Telemetry Deck data sets as Telemetry Deck signals. Dave (40:29.72) Mm -hmm. Daniel (40:53.416) And it seems to work. So I did reach out to few of the customers of Telemetry Deck who also seem to use RevenueCAD. I asked them to try it out. And now I'm going to wait a little bit until they can release their next versions with that integrated. And then let's see how that goes. And then soon we can write a huge blog post. Dave (40:53.496) That's awesome. Daniel (41:22.44) on both revenuecat .com and also telemetryject .com. And then just like have another integration for combining the two datasets. that's like even like someone from Revenucat even told me like, this is so cool because I can now run all these analyses on the Revenucat data that I couldn't do before. So yeah, that's pretty neat. Dave (41:26.872) That's awesome. Dave (41:46.188) Mm -hmm. Dave (41:49.816) Do do do do. Daniel (41:51.828) Not out, as in like, there's no like thing that you can click and then it suddenly happens. But the article in the telemetry documentation, how it works is already there. Hit me up on any of the social media platforms if you want to access. can also put it in the show notes. Hang on, I'm gonna link it in the show notes. It is still in beta, which mostly means, Dave (42:12.376) I want access Daniel, please. Daniel (42:21.258) you are going to have to use the very newest version of the telemetry SDK, which is still the main branch, as in not a version number. other than that, it's working fine. And I still want to, especially when I want to like test out the stuff that I need to do on the server to make sure that the data, like all the events are there, but they're still anonymized because they still need to be decoupled from revenue cat users because otherwise it's going to be not as privacy focused. yeah, I want to remove that danger basically of, you know. Dave (43:05.398) Yeah, of crossing the streams as it were. That is really awesome to see. I'm looking at the blog post now, but yeah, I want this. I'm going to put this into my next update of my app, I think. Daniel (43:06.732) All right. Yeah, don't cross the streams. Daniel (43:23.468) Cool. And so this, by the way, is not using a delegate pattern to catch Revenucat signals or events on the device and then also passing them onto Telemetry Deck. But instead, it's just basically adding your user and app ID to the Revenucat users and then using Revenucat's web hooks to actually deliver the data to Telemetry Deck. Dave (43:49.3) Dave (43:52.64) I understand, yeah. So I use... Daniel (43:54.314) which is slightly safer. Dave (43:58.26) I use an app called RC kit, which is like a utility for revenue cap. And it receives, I get notifications pretty much as soon as anybody's made a sale or anything, as anybody's bought anything, which I have some of them turned on. Daniel (44:04.416) Mm -hmm. Dave (44:25.08) Some of them I turned off like renewals and things just gets a bit noisy with subscriptions, but, I don't want to see cancellations because it's just depressing. I get a dopamine hit from a sale going through. So I'll leave those on actually still, but that works. That whole notification system works with webhooks on the revenue cat side. Daniel (44:49.526) Yeah, you can have it get pretty much exactly that data in, you know. Dave (44:55.094) Yeah. Yep. So that's really very cool. Daniel (44:57.228) So yeah. And that's actually the second integration with a payment provider because we are also integrating with Jihad Gunduz's freemium kit. Dave (45:09.858) Brilliant. Brilliant. Yes. Daniel (45:11.048) is also a fantastic project and I love it to bits and it's super easy. Dave (45:14.104) I think it's great. I'm not going to switch out from Revenue Cat for it's for my main app because that's established and working, but I'm certainly eyeballing freemium kits for future Greenfield projects. Yes. Daniel (45:30.216) Eyes emoji. Fantastic. Dave (45:35.777) Right Daniel, well it is time for me to start my day here in New Zealand because it's early in the morning. I do, I do. So I think we need to wrap the show. Daniel (45:36.852) rights. Daniel (45:41.504) You gotta start your day. Daniel (45:48.864) Well, in that case, me outro this. Thanks for listening. Please write us on iTunes and on YouTube and click the likes and the subscribes and the hearts and everything. Write us a comment that says, hello, Daniel, your blue beard is fantastic. And send us emails and contact at waitingforreview .com. Please also join our Discord. The link is in the show notes. People can find you, Dave, where? Dave (46:18.84) Well, when I'm not straightening my hair, you can find me online at Dave at social .lightbeamapps .com and you can find all about my apps just at lightbeamapps .com. How about yourself, Daniel? Daniel (46:34.732) Fantastic. I'm going to plug the Telemetry Tech TikTok account one more time. So go to TikTok .com slash telemetry deck. One word I believe. God, what is this? An underscore in there. There's no underscore in there. I very much hope. Anyway, that's the show for today. Have a great day. Dave, see you soon. Dave (46:55.298) Thank you, Daniel. Take care, mate. Daniel (46:58.4) Bye! Daniel (47:03.648) All right, Dave (47:05.624) That's lovely. Daniel (47:07.5) couldn't even tell you about the new addition I had to the Sim Rig but next time I will. Dave (47:12.386) No, next time definitely. yes, I am not able to stick around for some after show today. I've definitely got to get get gone. I could hear some commotion outside just just a minute ago. So. Daniel (47:24.416) That's fine. Daniel (47:27.98) Okay. Yeah, save your loved ones. everyone. Dave (47:33.54) I will do it dude. Alright well, take care mate and lovely to see you and I'm really, really love hearing that the schmoozing is working out as well. Daniel (47:39.285) It is, yeah. Daniel (47:44.776) The schmoozing. Yeah, even I have to pick, like to take out my escort skills. Dave (47:51.658) You're going to have to. I do think you need to show up to something with the suit and the shirt, shirtlessness. Daniel (47:59.455) you I need to work on my upper body definition first for a little bit more, but then totally. Dave (48:08.248) Well, before I go, yes. Any cool bike ride vids or photos? You know, I love to see them. So. Daniel (48:14.817) Mm Daniel (48:19.788) yeah, I didn't take any vids, I will totally. I just sent you a few photos that I took today. no, I wanted to. Dave (48:25.27) Yeah, spammy man. I feel like I get an idea of like what your landscape and area is like. It's quite different from where I met. Like you've got a lot more open space and we've got a lot more hills. Daniel (48:32.555) Mm -hmm. Daniel (48:39.614) I wanted to, I'm also including the AWS rooftop photos actually. I wanted to, I saw someone on TikTok using a meta ray ban glasses today. And I was like, this is so cool for taking videos on the bike. Dave (48:59.394) Hmm Daniel (49:01.004) When I looked at prices and just the frames are like 350 bucks and then also I would need like proper glasses in there. And also just like so mired in AI and especially meta AI. And I'm like, that's just a bit too much. Like if it was just like basically a Siri speaker and a camera, I might be interested. Let's see. Dave (49:15.394) Yeah. Dave (49:25.873) Could be fun. They're probably probably got more utility than a vision probe in your life right now. Dave (49:37.506) Right, yes. I know, I know, I know, know. Daniel (49:38.261) that's so nasty. It's a really nice, cool bit of hardware. But yeah. Dave (49:44.886) Yes, but not quite. Right, I'm gonna go see what that was all about and you take care dude. Bye. Bye bye. Daniel (49:52.556) Peace and love, bye.