Daniel (00:09) right. Dave, nice to see you again. Good morning. David Gary Wood (00:13) And you did? Yeah, Kia Ora ⁓ I'm good. As you can tell if you're watching on the YouTubes, I'm wearing a fancy shirt, Daniel. Daniel (00:16) How's it going? It is incredibly fancy, yet punk. Well, that's a good combination. David Gary Wood (00:28) Yes, somehow. I don't know how I've managed to achieve it, but I think it's a look I'm happy with, something I'm trying out. Daniel (00:34) I'm changing your job title to style icon in the intro. David Gary Wood (00:39) Style icon and influencer. Bad influencer. ⁓ Daniel (00:44) In fact, let's just do the intro. Hey, welcome to Waiting for Review, a show about the majestic indie developer lifestyle. your scintillating host, you hear about a tiny slice of their thrilling lives. I'm Daniel, solid glass connoisseur. And I'm here with Dave, who is a style icon and an influencer. Join us while waiting for review. David Gary Wood (01:07) Hey, always feels better after the intro. I don't know why I've got to have it. Daniel (01:10) I wanted to go with something like liquid glass for both of us, so you would have spent life in prison. David Gary Wood (01:15) Yeah. Oof. Oof. Yes, but I only got a light sentence. I only got a light sentence, Daniel. It's fine. Daniel (01:22) We can put that. We can put that somewhere else. All right. This is a special episode in so far as we're recording directly after WWDC or at least at the end of WWDC week. And so even though we are not as Apple adjacent as we used to be, we kind of want to go into what Apple released and just like go through everything they have put out there and just like react and talk to it. Like have our opinions. David Gary Wood (01:29) you Mm-hmm. Yes. Yeah. Daniel (01:53) and what caught our eye and stuff like that. And so I thought we could take a few minutes to talk about how the keynote was presented because I have some opinions on that. Then I have a list that is made by MacRumors. Basically, it's just a list of MacRumors articles, like individual articles that they put up each looking at one aspect of what Apple announced. David Gary Wood (01:54) Yep. and Yep. Daniel (02:14) Like I can just read you the titles and then we can both react to that. How does that sound? David Gary Wood (02:19) It's going to be an interesting one. Yeah, because some of them I'll be like, yeah, that's cool. I saw that. And then other bits I'll be blissfully unaware because my approach this week has been different to any other year with www.dc. I don't know. We've talked about this before, but watching the keynote for me is getting up at five o'clock in the morning in New Zealand. And last year I decided it was going to be the last time that I did that because I was Daniel (02:28) Yeah. David Gary Wood (02:45) tired for the rest of the day and it just didn't feel worth it. Not because I'm not excited about the tech, but just like for the sake of not checking my social media feeds when I get up and just watching something when I'm actually awake, like let's do it a bit differently. Daniel (02:49) Yeah, yeah. Especially since it's a video recording that they release anyway, why would you have to watch it live? And especially that's a ⁓ David Gary Wood (03:06) Exactly, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so I watched it in five minutes, right? I watched one of the... By the time I got up, CNET had done their wwwdc in five minutes thing, and I was like, yeah, that's it. I watched that with my morning drink and just see what's what. So I may have missed some of the nuances in the keynote by doing that. Daniel (03:25) Yeah, that's neat. Yeah, but I think that's fine. Like from watching it, I can tell you that the keynote was very much like the standard mold for Apple Keynotes. There was like some visual jokes, some of which I liked, some of which I loved, some of which I kind of thought incredibly cringy. ⁓ And then it's just like people standing in front of virtual, I assume, big screens and talking about things. And they always have this hand movement that they do with everything. David Gary Wood (03:37) Yep. Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Daniel (03:55) which excels or exaggerated. like it's a whole, it's a whole thing. You know, like if I could imitate it better, I would totally, totally try to, to do a podcast in that style. David Gary Wood (04:05) Somebody's probably broken it down and there's probably a TikTok out there or somewhere like how to present like Apple. Yeah. But anyway, what did you think? Daniel (04:11) Yeah. No shade on the people who are presenting. I I think most of these people are nerds like us, and this is just the public speaking guidelines that Apple gives them, and they're pretty good. It's just very noticeable that they're very uniform. ⁓ Yes, one thing I wanted to put in front of this is sometimes I feel kind of cynical about what Apple is putting out these days, and I'm trying to David Gary Wood (04:18) No. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Daniel (04:39) leave my cynicism at the door for this episode. But if you feel cynicism, Dave, or you, dear listener, please give us the cynicism. Just write us an email, write us a message on social media. I love to the cynicism. David Gary Wood (04:43) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, think I can do the same for this show, to be honest. We've talked all about our cynicism with Apple on previous shows. I think it's sort of talk to death. my only cynicism really for this show is, unfortunately, what we're starting with, which is how the keynote is presented. Like I say, no shade on the actual. presenters because I think it's actually quite valuable that they get this guidance. But in terms of the overall format, delivery through something very pre-recorded and polished to within an instrument's eyeballs, the cringe-worthy jokes that they go for in the middle of it, this is now a format we've had for a few years. And I think it's a bit stale. That's my cynicism there. Daniel (05:41) Yeah. The thing is also that Apple is now so incredibly big, like Apple, the company as an entity is rivaling countries in like size and GDP and influence. so like the jokey, like the jokey cringy style that really worked like 10, 20 years ago, kind of, kind of feels disconnected. David Gary Wood (05:46) Mm-hmm. no. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. So I won't go too deep on this, but I think they should change it next year. To be honest with you, I sort of, was hoping they would this year. And that'd be something that is just a little different. But the, the other reason for how I feel about this is because I watched the JetBrains Kotlin Conf keynote the other month. And it was like a breath of fresh air because it was People talking relatively unpolished on stage. So it was very live. There were mistakes made along the way and recovered from. So it felt more human. And the other aspect that they had is that JetBrains is obviously a different type of company in a different space, but they were able to bring in how they were working with the deaf community very directly. and that featured in the keynote in terms of open source and how they were working. Yeah, and that felt good for me. Daniel (06:58) yeah. I totally get that. Because that's one of the contrasts, right? Definitely the WWDC keynote was very, like, here's the new user-facing features that we're giving to our users. And at the same time, was kind of like reducing developers to, yeah, these people are also allowed on our platform, which... David Gary Wood (07:11) huh. Yep. Mm-hmm. Daniel (07:24) Well, reducing to what I want to say content. Content was a word that was really like because of like liquid glass, the UI, like it always gets out of the way so you can see your content. everything is content these days and apps are just apps are just content these days, which I mean, I guess that's, that's how it is. One thing I liked were the, one thing I liked was like the allusions to the allusions to the Formula One movie, which is published by Apple. David Gary Wood (07:24) Ding. Yeah. Yeah. content delivery systems. I'd say that's true of a lot of apps, yeah. Mm-hmm. Daniel (07:52) So it's like no surprise. And that's coming to cinemas later this month. So yeah, of course, but like at some point, like a cop was giving the Formula One car a parking ticket in the background. And I don't know, that was hilarious to me. Like as a side note, that movie is going to be so cringy to watch, but I'm gonna watch it anyway, I think. David Gary Wood (07:55) Yeah. Yeah. You Yeah. And again, cringy is not always bad, right? sometimes sometimes it's worth just a little bit of a silly smile. But, OK, liquid glass. How do you feel about liquid glass? Daniel (08:30) Anyway, liquid glass. I don't know yet. Okay, so first impression, when I first saw like the first few glimpses of it, and also in the WWDC session about it, like I thought, I thought this is awesome. This is really cool, because it is so damn impressive. It's not just like blur. It's not just a few like fake reflections. Like, if you see the glass, like going over other user interface elements, like it's all it gets. David Gary Wood (08:35) Yep. Daniel (08:58) Reflected and refracted it has a prism effect. It has like chromatic aberration It is like is like damn impressive Second thought was how much of my batteries this kind of cost? David Gary Wood (09:01) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Probably enough to make you buy a new phone. But no, mean, from what I've seen of it, my initial reaction was, cool, this doesn't look like it's going to be awful to adopt an app. So it looks like it's going to be. Daniel (09:16) You David Gary Wood (09:30) something that you can lean into, probably quite hard if you want to, or you can just have a little bit. And I've watched the developers state of the union, so it doesn't look like it's too difficult to adopt if you're already using SwiftUI, which you should be by now, really, in any modern app. So it's not an iOS 7 event. Daniel (09:36) Mm-hmm. David Gary Wood (09:50) where everybody's got to go mad for three months and try and figure out how they're going to adopt flat design. It's more additive to that. You can add, into using these modifiers. Some default components obviously will start to adopt these things. There's probably the biggest one for devs to watch out for is like, I don't know if this is how it works actually, but I assume that... when you compile against a new SDK, you'll get some of these things out of the box. And it will be worth double checking how that looks and feels with your app if that is the case. So yeah, there's definitely something there to sort of be aware of is like, this is a UI change and you should see how your app actually operates, if not on the immediate betas, certainly before the OS is released. So I've earmarked that. for my app is I need to double check how this has affected anything. But I don't think it's a bad thing overall. I like the look of the UI. I'm pleased it's not a iOS 7 mad scramble event. It looks like it should be more incremental than that. And I'm looking forward to using it as a user and seeing, well, what does this make my phone feel like? Daniel (10:55) Hmm. ⁓ Yeah. Are you running any betas? David Gary Wood (11:08) Not yet. No, I will wait until probably late August, early September and then start sacrificing a device to see. Yeah, and unfortunately my iPhone. Daniel (11:16) That is a huge advantage of not being in California, like among other things. Because when I was still in San Francisco for WWDC or San Jose, I would be so excited for the new stuff that I would put the first beta on my phone. And I didn't really regret it. Apart from the thing running hot and the battery life being shot, it was mostly like, okay, because I was expecting beta software and I got beta software. David Gary Wood (11:21) Yeah. Yep. With it. Yeah. Daniel (11:42) And I got like a full summer of I have the new thing, whereas no one else has. But I'm kind of happy that I didn't get this enthused today or this time. David Gary Wood (11:43) Yeah. Yep. It's, yeah, and you know, I mean, if you want to do it, do it. But I would say, know, bear in mind that it's beta software, right? So in the past, when I was really keen, I would put it on my iPad, but not my iPhone, for example. And then that, because having an operational phone is much more important to me than my iPad. So I'd do that. These days, I'm fortunate enough to have a bunch of devices. And I do have a iPhone 11 that I can put it on, which I think is now the lowest iPhone model that's supported on the new OS. So that'll be interesting. Daniel (12:30) Yeah, that's true. How far back does the iPad support go? Do you know that? Okay. David Gary Wood (12:36) I'm sure I'm probably going to lose one or two. Honestly, I'm not trying to brag, but like I do have a few test devices here. We've got two teenage lads in our household and we sort of have this circle of life of like our upgrades go to them. And then when they get another upgrade, those become my test devices. So yeah. Daniel (12:58) All right. David Gary Wood (13:00) The game is to upgrade Daniel (13:00) Okay, I just had a look. David Gary Wood (13:01) often enough that you don't lose support off the bomb. Daniel (13:04) I have the first generation iPad Pro, the 12 inch one. And that is not in the list of supported devices because I would have like sacrificed that because I'm not really using it. It's the recipe pad. But yeah, that's fine. I I'll wait a bit more. I was also interested in like trying out the new Mac OS because I'm more of a Mac OS user than an iPad user definitely. But like, David Gary Wood (13:09) Right. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Daniel (13:30) I did that in previous years where I would have a separate partition and then just install the beta on the partition and boot it. But then you have an empty Mac. You have nothing to do in there. So it's kind of pointless. David Gary Wood (13:37) Yep. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's a whole bunch of stuff you could do. I've not seen things where people have put their home directories and other bits in a shared space and then flip between the two. like, it's a lot of overhead just to test the beta if you don't have a, I would say, a business reason, if you like, to do that testing. Yeah, but anyway, liquid glass, I think. Daniel (14:01) Right. David Gary Wood (14:08) I don't think it looks bad. think it looks interesting. I also liked that we are now quite away from the sort of Uber flat design years. Like it sort of feels like, you know, a little bit more whimsy coming into the UI and the interface. Daniel (14:21) I like the Überflat design though, but I can see that. I kind of like it. think right now the contrast is way too low, but I think that's just the thing. This gets ironed out over the next few betas. David Gary Wood (14:26) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. For reference though, Daniel, I am not updating my app to go hard out on the new UI side of things. When I go and test. Daniel (14:44) Well, you need to use all the shader cores for your effects. They should run GoVJ effects, not glass effects. David Gary Wood (14:48) Yeah, actually. Yeah. Yeah. And my UI is currently quite an uberflap UI, really, for the dashboard, because you've got to trigger videos, and it just needs to kind of get out of the way. ⁓ So yes. Yes, my user's content, not my content. But I will. Daniel (15:04) make space for your content. David Gary Wood (15:13) I've got some ideas for some new UI stuff anyway, and I actually kind of want to bring the app to more of a slightly skeuomorphic look, because a lot of DJ apps do that, right? You know, have sliders that look like the physical sliders of a mixer, for example. So I'm actually going the other way in time. I've got a UI rebuild that I'm going to do later this year going into next year. And that's going to be something else entirely. So I'm looking at all of this and going, it will be nice to use day to day, but I'm not adopting it beyond probably having a player known what it looks like so that I've got those skills as well. Yeah. What's next? What's next? Daniel (15:49) Yeah, that's fair. Cool. Apple announces live translation for messages, FaceTime, and phone apps. I think that's pretty neat. ⁓ Yeah, I probably don't want to dwell too long on it. Like, can't right now imagine having a phone call with it because before you have the phone call, you kind of have to negotiate. I'm going to talk to you in my own language and then like... David Gary Wood (15:59) Sweet. Yeah, that's great. Mm-hmm. Daniel (16:17) the translation will kick in a second later. And that negotiation process, you don't have translate for that. like, especially for messages, I can totally see it. David Gary Wood (16:23) Yeah. Yeah. And obviously you could send a message first, I'd say, right? I guess. But no, I wonder if it does it work for subtitles in your own language? I assume it would. Daniel (16:38) guess so yeah doesn't say all right Apple music gaining ability sorry Apple music gaining ability to pin your favorite playlists albums and artists in iOS 26 yeah that's kind of cool David Gary Wood (16:39) Yeah, because that would be our use case. Daniel (16:51) Visual intelligence now searches on screen content. I feel like all the AI features were kind of like, I mean, they kind of have to push it forward a little bit, but the big push that was announced last year kind of never really came and is not really there. So they're kind of just like having what Apple should do, which is, yeah, we're using like. David Gary Wood (16:56) Mmm, no thanks. Yeah. Yeah. Daniel (17:18) dashes of AI to improve things where they make sense. And I think, David Gary Wood (17:22) Yeah. Yeah. Daniel (17:24) I think that's kind of cool. and as like, this is a feature that Google has, I think, and, it's also kind of integrates chat GPT instead of like Siri, which is probably a smart move. was half expecting them to just ditch Siri entirely. Just like have chat GPT in there instead. But yeah. David Gary Wood (17:26) Yeah. Mm-hmm. . We'll see. They might. Daniel (17:45) Basically it is not happening automatically. no AI is just watching your entire screen. You take a screenshot and then on the screen you can also say, what is this? Talk to me about this or search things that are similar to this or whatever. So in the demo they were taking screenshots and then they were kind of circling a orange lamp and then they could send that to a shopping app to search for similar lamps. So I think that's pretty... David Gary Wood (17:57) Yeah. Okay, so when you introduced it, Daniel. Daniel (18:08) Pretty good, like in reaction to a user feedback or user request. David Gary Wood (18:13) Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think when you introduced it, my initial reaction was, thanks. But what you've just said about it, and bear in mind, this is part of me not watching the entire keynote, right? But what you've described, I would get utility out. Whereas what I was imagining on first description was more like Microsoft's recall, which I've had to help my kids disable on their Windows. Daniel (18:35) Mm-hmm. David Gary Wood (18:40) gaming PCs, because they don't want any of that. that thing's gone back and forth. So I think it's sensible of Apple to play it that way. It's much more within their normal values. And obviously, they will have seen some of the backlash against Microsoft and gone, no, we don't want to do whole screen stuff and constant monitoring. So no, that's cool. And yeah, it's something I would get utility out of. Daniel (19:04) Yeah, I can see that as well. Next one, Apple announces new features. No, hang on. Chat GPT integration coming to Apple's image playground. Image, image playground and like procedural image generation is an abomination that no one needs. No one wants, and they look ugly AF. Next up, new features in messages app, which are, I have to click on that, backgrounds, polls, live translation. David Gary Wood (19:05) Sweet. Mm-hmm. Yep. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Daniel (19:30) And that's it. OK, polls are kind of cool, just to keep track with backgrounds. I don't really care. New Games app brings Game Center, Library, and Arcade together, which is kind of nice. I think that's going to be the focus of a new push towards gaming. David Gary Wood (19:33) Live translation is kind of cool. Backgrounds, I don't care. Yeah. Yeah. sense? Daniel (19:53) because they also seem to have brought in more game creators and ported more games to Mac OS and iOS. So let's see where this goes. On the one hand, I think it's cool. On the other hand, if they're treating game developers the same as app developers, the game developers are not going to be very eager to be on the platform. Because I think that's one of the problems that's always going to help Mac OS back. David Gary Wood (20:05) Yep. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah, you kind of isolate something there as well for me, which is that when they've did the push, I think it was last year or the year before about some of the conversion technology that they've got to help support porting. There's a lot of cynicism at the time of like, yeah, but Apple's rubbish with games developers. And I would like to see them just Daniel (20:33) Mmm. Whiskey, I think. David Gary Wood (20:45) keep doing these things that are supportive, keep working with that side of things, and then it's less of a big promise, and it's more like in a few years, it's just going be, yeah, of course you can do this on your Mac. And that seems like a more sensible play. So I hope so, because I've always wanted gaming to be a better thing on the Mac. Daniel (21:04) Oh yeah, I recently looked at a game and it was on Steam and it was actually available on Mac OS. So I wish listed it and I think I'm buy it soon. All right, Apple reminders and notes feature. They're kind of smart features, suggest relevant tasks and items automatically such as to-dos pulled from emails or notes or grocery items based on what your habits and patterns are. I think that's kind of cool. I think that's very, that's one of these David Gary Wood (21:12) Hey, it's always a pleasure. you Okay. Daniel (21:32) like smart features that you don't really notice until they kind of pop up and you're like, that's helpful. Like right now, for example, if you get a, if you get an email from a hotel confirming your stay, like there's kind of like a grayed entry in your calendar automatically and you can like click to, yeah, I want that in my calendar actually. So that's kind of how I imagine that. And that's kind of cool. David Gary Wood (21:38) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I probably won't end up interacting with it too hard because I'm not using mail. I'm not using iMessage at the moment really. But yeah, I see how that will be useful. Daniel (22:00) Hahaha Yep, the icons in iOS 26 can now have an all clear look alongside light mode and dark mode. I kind of dislike that because the look is, it looks very striking in screenshots, but I can't imagine myself really using it. and I don't think it is very pleasant to use what I would have liked more. David Gary Wood (22:14) Hmm Yeah. Daniel (22:28) is an option here to have, because you have these new icons that have various layers, like in Vision OS. Just have the option to have a clear layer, that is a of a glass layer as the icon base, and then add some color on top. I mean, color is kind of important to distinguish icons. if the icons are all monochrome, but then also have all the glass reflections on top, it's going to be a bit visually messy, I think. David Gary Wood (22:36) Yeah. Yeah, I think we're have to see how that one stakes out really. I'm not rushing to change my app icons in that direction. But yeah, maybe for certain types of icons there's going to be something with that that'll be good. No. Daniel (23:08) I mean, did you update for iOS 25? David Gary Wood (23:13) No, I did not. Yeah, so again, I want my icon to look like my icon and I don't really care too much about supporting those things and I've had no users ask me for anything else, but my icons black and white. So yeah. Daniel (23:30) Because in last year's release, which was iOS 18, I think, now, I'm getting confused by the new numbering already. David Gary Wood (23:35) We can call it iOS 25. I don't mind. I know what you mean. Daniel (23:40) Speaking of which, before WWDC, internal beta builds at Apple would report as iOS 19. And now with the public betas, or the public developer betas, I want to say, they do report, for example, in Tendemitry Deck, as iOS 26. So that's kind of fun. David Gary Wood (23:56) That's actually really cool. Yeah, so they kept that one leak proof. That's good. Daniel (23:59) Yep, pretty much. So yeah, like iOS 18 will actually like kind of like make your icon like light mode or dark mode automatically. And so I assume they're also gonna give your icons the transparent treatment automatically. But all right, new adaptive power option to extend battery life. I haven't seen that in the keynote, so I'm gonna click it. David Gary Wood (24:17) Yes. Daniel (24:25) There's a setting in the settings and it's designed to make small performance adjustments that will improve battery life. Include lowering display brightness, allowing some activities to take a little longer, The feature is also designed to turn on low power mode automatically. So I don't really get what the difference between this and low power mode is. David Gary Wood (24:33) Okay. Yeah. Daniel (24:51) It feels like it's like kind of the precursor to... Okay, the screenshot has more explanation actually. When your battery usage is higher than usual, iPhone can make small performance adjustments to extend your battery life. So you turn this on and nothing changes, but if you turn this on and suddenly your phone is at 20%, even though it's morning, then it will kind of go automatically into saving mode. That's kind of what I imagine. That's cool. David Gary Wood (25:17) Yeah, yeah, it's not a thing. Daniel (25:19) They might have brought this as AI. haven't seen it, but same as the next one. saw people are kind of like making fun of this on Reddit. iOS 26 lets you know how long it will take your battery to charge, is weird because I kind of imagined that it would already do that, but it actually doesn't. So the screenshot is just like charging, 41 minutes remaining. David Gary Wood (25:41) Yeah. Daniel (25:46) Like people already were making fun of it because we're like, they're using AI to do this. like no one here, like nowhere here does it actually David Gary Wood (25:52) Yeah. Daniel (25:52) say AI. It's just like, yeah, this is, we're gonna do this. David Gary Wood (25:56) It doesn't need AI to do that. mean, maybe they've used something like that, but it doesn't matter. Yeah, I actually like the idea of the feature because if I've got, I've had situations recently actually where I had a lazy Saturday. I spent all mornings not doing scrolling, was just scrolling things I enjoy. But yeah. I'd shoot my battery life up on Instagram and other things. And then we decided to go out in the afternoon and I was like, Oh shit, my battery is lower than I would like it right now. Um, so we had a few minutes before going out. I put it on my best charger with like a fast charging thing. It would have been lovely to have some idea of how long it would take to get to either a full charge or even just sort of kind of gauge like, you know, how long is it going to take it to get to something I'm more comfortable with? So, yeah, not a bad thing. Potentially useful. Daniel (26:52) Yeah. Yeah, especially with like the big USB-C chargers, like an iPhone, you got like getting it to full takes a while because like the last few percent are kind of tricking in, but like getting it to 60 % is like, super fast. That's kind of cool. David Gary Wood (27:07) Yeah. Yeah, and that's the other thing, right? You'll get a feel for which charger is actually your best charger if you've got more than one or whether a new one's actually better or not. So yeah, not a bad thing. Daniel (27:18) Yeah. Yeah, I have like two of the big iPad chargers from Apple, the one that kind of looked like very pill shaped. And those are the best in my opinion. Alright, new emoji game for Apple News plus subscribers. Boarding passes. Background sounds. Alright. David Gary Wood (27:34) Keep going. Yep. Background sounds I kind of like. Is that part of the accessibility feature or is it just for the OS? Daniel (27:44) I feel like it's where they try to, yeah, that's where they try to Sherlock dark noise, which I like that feature, but dark noise is just the best. So shout out to the author who I talked to the other day. Yeah, true. And I've been on Charlie's show as well. He's just a delightful human being. David Gary Wood (27:52) Yeah, yeah, I like that feature. I also like di-noise. Yeah, Charlie, who has been on the show in the past. So yeah, shout out to Charlie. Yeah. Daniel (28:13) All the tiny changes. I don't think I want to go through these. You can export notes as a markdown file. Tweaks, navigation, battery settings. Cool. All right. iPadOS is compatible, not with the original iPad Pro. It has a new windowing and menu bar system, which basically now it's Mac OS. Like you can have up to four active windows and the other windows are kind of like... David Gary Wood (28:31) Yep. Daniel (28:34) passive windows that are like frozen apps on the iPhone. David Gary Wood (28:38) Yep. Daniel (28:38) I'm kind of not surprised. On the one hand, I'm surprised it took them that long. On the other hand, I kind of applaud them for trying out so many different models, but it turns out there's right now we don't have a better model for multitasking. And I'm kind of happy that they arrived at this. David Gary Wood (28:52) Yep. Me too. And I didn't necessarily need or want Mac OS on the iPad, but it feels like this for windowing there is a good move. So for me, what's going to be interesting with what I do with my video app is what can I run in that mode side by side with it that's actually going to be interesting and useful. So I will be playing with that. Daniel (29:19) Mm-hmm. David Gary Wood (29:21) probably in another couple of months and just sort of seeing like, you know, what am I use is going to get out of this if they've got my app there and something else doing something else. So could make some of the end intra app stuff that I could do, for example, receiving different audio inputs into the app to drive audio reactivity could make that a bit more actually useful where you can do some of that already today with sort of split screen stuff and all of that. Daniel (29:44) Mm-hmm. David Gary Wood (29:48) But I think this will actually mean that people start trying to do that sort of stuff more. So yeah, I'll be giving it a good look, I think. Daniel (29:56) I don't know why this is here, but iPad OS 26 and Mac OS Toll include a phone app. that's why this here, but it also continues with call screening, hold assist and more. this, didn't like, there wasn't in the iOS list, but these are like pretty cool features actually that get added to the phone app call screening, which kinda like if there's an unknown number with a high probability of scamming. David Gary Wood (30:02) Mm-hmm. Mm Daniel (30:21) Like the person will actually have to like give you basically what amounts to a voicemail asking to be picked up, which is kind of cool. Like also very annoying, of course, but I think, I feel like it's a good balance because right now my phone is mostly in a focus mode where like most people's calls don't get through. if those people now get a chance to be that through, that's actually better. And the other thing is like hold assist, which is like going to be such a cool feature. David Gary Wood (30:30) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Daniel (30:47) Have you seen this? David Gary Wood (30:48) Now go for it. What is it? Daniel (30:50) ⁓ It will detect hold music and offer to to just like listen to the hold music for you and then ring basically when the whole music stops. David Gary Wood (30:54) Ha ha ha ha ha! love that. I thought you were going to say it would replace it with your own music. Daniel (31:03) I that. No, that's really cool. Like in the demo, they were calling some call center and then it had to hold music. the person would just like activate the thing and then either put their phone away or use it as they normally would. And then it would ring when the other side kind of picked up. What I'm wondering is like, David Gary Wood (31:20) Yeah. Daniel (31:26) most of the time when I'm in a holding pattern, maybe this is German thing, but like when I'm in a, holding on the phone, there will be like two minutes of music and then suddenly the music will stop and a human recorded voice will say, your call is very important to us. So please don't David Gary Wood (31:34) Yes. Daniel (31:41) hang up or whatever. And I wonder if that triggers it. And if that does trigger it, then it's kind of worthless. And at the same time, I'm also wondering if the call center person who's I assume a David Gary Wood (31:43) So will it just keep ringing? Yeah. Daniel (31:54) very busy person who is like paid by the call, if they get the impression that they will now need to wait for me, will they just kick me out? So I think that's... David Gary Wood (31:57) Mm hmm. Yeah. I could also imagine a bit of cat and mouse going on where if you figure out the right thing to do to start the call, for example, would they want to automate that end of the process on the call center side? So you can sort of see like a bit of an arms race going on maybe. But I think Daniel (32:17) Yeah. David Gary Wood (32:24) It's going to be interesting to try. There's a whole bunch of calls where I would have loved that. emigrating to New Zealand, I have spent many, many hours on the phone to New Zealand immigration. ⁓ you'd have to trust it. Yeah. But when you're talking about maybe being two hours on hold before speaking to a human. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Daniel (32:33) Yeah, but if it's an important call, you don't want to risk it on the other hand. Two hours? I've never seen that. Like most of the call centers that I'm calling to, they just like throw you out after 20 minutes. They're like, yup, we're too busy. Call back later. David Gary Wood (32:51) No. Yeah, I've literally spent that time waiting to speak to somebody on the other end here. And I would put the phone on speakerphone and then sit on my computer and play an Xcode until something changed. But having to listen to the same four or five songs over and over again in that time is like some sort of torture. Yeah. Yeah, there's songs I can't hear now without getting triggered. Daniel (33:10) ⁓ yeah. That is absolute torture. So yeah, let's see. I'm a bit skeptical. I'm a bit skeptical if it really works. But if it does, it's kind of iPadOS revamped files app, which looks like the finder, which I kind of appreciate. David Gary Wood (33:29) Yeah, great. Take care. Daniel (33:30) ⁓ CarPlay, widgets, life activities. That's kind of cool. You get widgets and life activities in CarPlay, which is actually kind of nice because sometimes I'm driving my car and I'm thinking, what's my next calendar thing? And I will just glance over and see my next calendar thing. This makes me want to revive the Telemetry Tech iOS app, just to kind of have telemetry tech widgets on the thing with like I. David Gary Wood (33:44) Yeah. That's cool. Ha Daniel (33:55) At some point it shall return, but today is not that day. Mac OS, Tahoe. David Gary Wood (33:55) to Mm-hmm. Ta-ha. I think so. ⁓ Ta-ho-eh. Daniel (34:01) Or is it Tahoe? Tahoe? Is that a bad word, Tahoe? Maker was 26, I don't know. I'm kind of done with the Californian place names, I don't know. David Gary Wood (34:13) Yeah, mean, no shade to the places, but like, I don't know them, they don't resonate. So actually just calling it by the year helps. Yeah. Daniel (34:20) Exactly that. it's just, it's just, yeah, like, like I'm very like, I'm sure for Americans or Californians at least like you have like some cool, like awesome, like, like association with the place, but it's just a weird number of syllables. Anyway. David Gary Wood (34:36) Yeah, I mean it'd be like doing it for the UK and then having, you know, Mac OS Lester, right? Yeah. Daniel (34:43) Yeah. And everyone would be called it at Mac OS Lee sister. David Gary Wood (34:47) Yeah yeah yeah, Mac OS bottle or water. Um yes Worcester. Daniel (34:51) Marcus Booster Shear. Anyway, they have a new Spotlight, which is kind of cool because I'm a heavy Spotlight user. basically, like one thing that it does is like Spotlight replaces the app launcher. I don't know how, I always launch that, like use a gesture to launch that, like the grid of apps. And so like 90 % of the time I launch apps through Spotlight, but just like. David Gary Wood (35:02) Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Daniel (35:20) typing the Spotlight command and then entering the app's name. But if I don't, I always use the gesture to open the app launcher. So it's kind of cool that both of them are merged. And the other things are, they have a command line kind of thing. So I don't know exactly yet how it actually works, especially from a developer perspective. But they give you these ad-lib sentences. David Gary Wood (35:31) Yeah. Daniel (35:45) So you start typing a sentence like add something to my to-do list and it will kind of expand and have like Xcode like placeholders where you can say like add by beer to my to-do list, for example. And like by beer and my to-do list are kind of like placeholders where you can like enter something or select a specific to-do list. David Gary Wood (36:03) That's kind of cool. That feels like that's got to be part of the AI stuff that they've got. they've integrated some of these things under the hood, right? ⁓ Daniel (36:14) I don't think, like, sometimes you recognize AI stuff by how the guardrails are kind of implemented. This doesn't have any guardrails. It feels like Apple is very sure that this content will always be right. So I assume it's kind of handcrafted. Users can now take direct actions such as creating an event, recording audio, or playing a podcast from within Spotlight. David Gary Wood (36:22) Yeah. Okay. I was wondering if it was an Apple intelligence thing. Daniel (36:38) It also enables functionality like sending an email or controlling apps directly through Spotlight, offering a unified command layer that spans across the operating systems. So that looks like intents basically. I'll say this is intents. And then of course, because they're intents, if good theory ever comes, it can also use those. But while we're still waiting for that, this is a good use for them. David Gary Wood (36:52) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. One thing I was wondering is, you might know this better than me because you looked into it more, but is it going to integrate the thing where you can talk to Siri into Spotlight? You know how you can have like a conversation with Siri and through text? Daniel (37:22) I do not know. And glancing over this article doesn't mention it either. So maybe not, which is kind of a weird oversight because I totally should just talk to Siri as well. David Gary Wood (37:32) Yeah. Well, there's a big opening there if Apple wants to in the future where Spotlight becomes your chat like interface if you need it to be to whatever thing you're talking to, right? Which hopefully would be for hopefully for Apple would end up being a super powerful Siri, which we may not get in this year, but never mind. Daniel (37:39) Mm-hmm. Tolle! Tolle! Yeah, I could do that because I could just like make an app that you type in your question and it will answer. I can search the internet for you if you ask me the same thing on your phone, which is what my home pod always answers, which is basically an in-joke at this point. David Gary Wood (38:12) Yeah. Yeah, It is, it is, it's so frustrating. Hopefully the pieces will come together in time. What's next? What else have we got? Daniel (38:25) The journal app is finally coming to Mac and iPad. Also a compatibility list. Seems like all the Apple silicons. David Gary Wood (38:31) Yep. Yep. None of the entails. Daniel (38:38) Well, some of the entails. David Gary Wood (38:41) Really? Which ones? Daniel (38:41) Hang on, Mac modules. Okay, the compatible models are the Silicon, Silicon, Mac Pro 2019, which is still Intel. I'm not sure about Mac Pro 2020, but it seems also like an Intel, iMac 2020, Mac Mini 2020, and also the Mac Pro from 2019. But out not included are... David Gary Wood (39:01) Okay. Fair enough. Daniel (39:09) the 2020 MacBook Air, most of the MacBook Pros from 2020 or David Gary Wood (39:13) Hold up, which 2020 MacBook here? Daniel (39:16) Retina 13 inch it says David Gary Wood (39:18) What chip? Intel chip. Daniel (39:19) That's all the information that I have. MacBook Air Retina 13 inch 2020. I can put that exact string into a duck, duck, go. David Gary Wood (39:24) Right, OK. Daniel (39:29) And it will just give me like, ah, tech specs. Um, has an SSD. Does it has I3. So not a, not a, not a, not a silicon. I would be, no, no, I'm like, what's not in this article, but what I've already read is all the silicons are good, but many of the intels are being dropped and David Gary Wood (39:39) Okay, not the M1. Yeah. Yep. Daniel (39:53) For others, they already said this is the last one. So next year is the Intel Eucalyptus. David Gary Wood (39:57) Yeah. That's, mean, yeah, they kind of need to. Would you imagine that we're another year after that for the first generation silicon chips also being nuked? I would think that would be the following year or the year after that ⁓ in that case. Daniel (40:14) I'm putting something in the show notes for Intel Macs. Won't get updates after Mac OS Tohoey. Right. Other than that, nothing about Mac OS. Like the UI is also very classy and it's very round. It feels very round and bouncy castle-ish. I've only seen the screenshots and in the screenshots, feels a bit Windows Vista and it feels a bit... David Gary Wood (40:23) Ha Okay. Daniel (40:40) Fisher price. So I'm, I'm kind of like, like delaying judgment until I see it in person. I'm not sure on the one hand, I kind of want the new shaders and everything. On the other hand, I'm yeah, let's just, let's just wait and see. Like I can't imagine it right now, but if it David Gary Wood (40:42) Well... Yeah. I reckon you're only two or three shows away, Daniel, from trying it. Daniel (41:04) Hahaha David Gary Wood (41:04) Ha ha ha. Daniel (41:06) I have an external SSD here. David Gary Wood (41:08) It begins. Daniel (41:09) All right, watchOS 26. Also the design, includes the home screen. yeah, do you see the home screen for iOS where the watch, like the clock time kind of stretches vertically to fill the available space? That kind of looks cool. All right, compatibility. Apple unveils an AI powered workout buddy for Apple Watch, which... David Gary Wood (41:23) Yep. Daniel (41:31) hate it so much. David Gary Wood (41:34) I don't need that. I'm good. Yeah. Daniel (41:39) I mean, in theory, imagine there's just a tiny workout buddy sitting in your ear and whispering encouragement. That sounds awesome. the fact that this is an AI speaking in a very, I don't know if you heard the samples. They sampled the voice of one of the instructors from Apple Fitness for that. And so it very much sounds like an Apple commercial. David Gary Wood (42:05) Okay. Daniel (42:09) So. David Gary Wood (42:09) I mean if it gets quick Daniel (42:10) This is your 100th workout today or this year. Just keep pushing. You can reach your goal. I believe in you. Like, my God, no. Like, I want rage to fuel me. Like, I need like things to hate when I'm like sporting. David Gary Wood (42:14) Yeah. So here's the fashion. What doesn't that do that? Like, I mean... Daniel (42:31) Ooh, so that's the intention. David Gary Wood (42:33) Yeah, so I want a version of that where like, I want to type running back up again. So if it gets quieter, the faster I run or the more consistently I run, like, and then comes back if I flag or slow down, that might motivate me because I really don't need that sort of very polished peppy talk in my ear when I run. No, I need a drill sergeant. I need a, a sneaky Daniel (42:53) Yeah. David Gary Wood (42:59) British cockney dude probably having a go at me. Just effing do it. Daniel (43:00) Yeah. So I navigate. I need bike navigation. Like I navigate using Komoot, which is a bike navigation app. And it has very detailed maps that for example, know that this is a road and on the side of the road is a bike lane. And so it expects you to be on the bike lane. But then of course, sometimes the bike lane ends and it just like merges into the road or the bike lane is not like part of the crossing, but directly after the crossing it continues. David Gary Wood (43:30) Okay. Daniel (43:32) But also like there's like a slight thing. not one, like it's like maybe there's a one degree angle in the road after the crossing or whatever. And so like this thing will chat your ear off. It's like, get off the, get off the bike lane in 50 meters, get on the bike lane in 20 meters, slight right onto street. And I so would like to have an AI that was just like, be like, okay. basically go straight ahead for the next four kilometers and I'll shut up now. that would be so nice. David Gary Wood (44:02) Yeah, yeah, or just something where you could say less detail for now. I'm good, you know, and it's sort of, yeah. What's next? What's next on the list? What have we got? We're going to run out soon or we got lots more? Daniel (44:16) All right, notes app on Apple Watch. Yeah, we're kind of at the bottom end. Notes app on Apple Watch, cool. New gesture to dismiss notification. That's kind of nice actually. Like, you know how you turn your wrist towards you to see your watch and then you see also the new notification. If you put it away for half a second and then return, it will show you your home screen or your watch face instead, which is kind of cool, because sometimes you want to look at your watch and it's like the information you actually want to look at is kind of blocked by notification. So yeah, I like it. It's cool. It's a nice refinement. David Gary Wood (44:50) Yeah. Yeah. Daniel (44:55) Vision OS is announced with spatial widgets, but I haven't really tried it. And also enhanced personas, which can look very cool, but I'm not a Vision OS expert. At some point, we could invite my coworker, Jihad, or something here if you want to talk more about Vision OS. TV OS has a new liquid glass redesign. David Gary Wood (45:10) Yep. Daniel (45:15) And also it turns your phone into a karaoke mic for Apple Music Sing. AirPods. Yeah, AirPods. Almost at the end. AirPods get one cool feature. Like they get multiple cool features. Like they got camera remote, so it can like trigger your camera. And they also get a thing that's called Pulse Audio for sleep, which is super cool because I listen to lot of podcasts for falling asleep. David Gary Wood (45:19) That's kind of fun. Daniel (45:38) So by the way, if you are falling asleep right now to this podcast, we love you, you're safe. ⁓ Right. But apparently, like they will detect when you're falling asleep and just like pause, which is perfect. David Gary Wood (45:45) pleasant dreams. Yeah, yeah, that's decent. Daniel (45:55) And they automatically switch with car play, but I don't really like I mean, I when I enter the car, I would like take the headphones out of my out of my ears now. David Gary Wood (46:07) and Daniel (46:07) Anyway, the developer beta are out. has announced, Apple has announced foundation models framework, which is basically like a, like, it doesn't say kit, which is kind of annoying, but it's basically an SDK for, or a library for like working with, with LLM, which is kind of cool. It's kind of built in, in a way that is like, otherwise like all the people would just like reinvent their own wheels and you would get like, David Gary Wood (46:28) Yep. Daniel (46:36) 17 copies of llama or something on your device. So that's kind of cool. That is the end of this list, but I have two things that, no, one thing actually that hasn't been mentioned on this list, which is Apple music crossfade. So Apple music will crossfade between songs if you enable that feature. And it will not only just like, David Gary Wood (46:38) Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Daniel (46:58) crossfade in a dumb way, it will actually beat match and speed match. And I've seen a few David Gary Wood (47:04) Okay, that's fun. Daniel (47:05) examples of people in the wild trying this on their phones, not in a demo, and it sounds really, really good. Of course, a DJ would probably do it even better and probably with a bit more panache. But it's cool. I totally want to enable that for background music while I'm cleaning. David Gary Wood (47:18) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Daniel (47:26) the apartments. David Gary Wood (47:28) I mean, that appeals, actually. I was going to say when you said crossfading, was like, didn't we used to have that on iTunes and then it kind of disappeared? This sounds better. It sounds like it's that plus. I will probably try it. And if it's good, then that actually gives me something I will use for just noodling about with my visual stuff. Because sometimes I don't just want a playlist. I want a DJ mix. So it'll let me have a bit of a mix without having to bother too much myself. Yeah, that could be fun. ⁓ Didn't see that one coming. Daniel (48:03) Yeah, think that's something ⁓ I'm looking forward to. All right. Other than that, my final thought is Apple is doing the whole liquid glass thing to prepare us for AR everywhere. Like AR glasses and also like, have you seen the expanse? They all have like glass phones. So the whole like phone is translucent. Like that's probably... David Gary Wood (48:20) Maybe. Yeah. Daniel (48:28) not exactly their vision of the future, but like somewhere in there is their vision of the future. mean, like, let's see if they reach it or whatever. But I feel like that is one of the reasons for this redesign. okay, all the platforms should like look kind of related to each other, but that's more than that. Like it feels like everything is translucent. That feels like a preparation step. David Gary Wood (48:36) Yeah. Yeah. think you're probably right. But I'm not sure I see yet what it's preparing for. I think that is probably perhaps because Apple doesn't fully have that vision, if you like, sorted themselves. Pardon the pun. And I say that because I sort of see what's happened with Vision OS and the Vision Pro is that It sort of went through that hype phase, then it kind of seemed to die bit of a death. And I think, obviously, it's still a thing that exists, right? And there are people that are using it. But the version of that that then becomes the everything device or the one everybody wants in one way or another doesn't seem fully clear. obviously, that's something they'll be thinking about. And there may even be other ways. that some of this redesign ties into other products as well. Like you said, that vision of clear funds and the rest of it, I think that'd be quite a way away. But I don't hate it. think this gives them options. And it gives more options to play with different hardware and different experiences. So if it's a preparatory step for that, then bring it on. Really? Daniel (50:00) I mean, you got to feel for Apple. Like for literally six, seven years, they've prepared for AR, like all the AR stuff in the phones, all the like move away from scumorphism, all the, you know, like, yeah, we have new AR kit stuff on, know, can like look at things through your phone, like, and that was all in preparation for the Vision Pro, the device that kind of came out of would change the world. David Gary Wood (50:03) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yep. Daniel (50:27) No one really wants I'm saying no one, but yeah. Ji-Hat put down your keyboard. You're not the target audience here. No, like, I kind of feel bad for them. And obviously this is not the end of the road, but now like suddenly everyone has kind of like, is not looking at AR anymore, like so much. Like people are still looking at VR. David Gary Wood (50:44) No. Yeah. Daniel (50:51) But like AR was kind of low key the future and now the future is low key AI. And so like, I'm wondering, I'm wondering, does that change things or will just like, like, will like just AR, AR appear? because when I use the vision pro, I was was thinking like, if my glasses could just like do that, if like, I could just like display a window over there in the other end of the room with my regular glasses, that would be kind of awesome. But we seem to be quite a while away from that. David Gary Wood (50:58) Yeah. Yeah. We do. And at one point I was like, yeah, this is what I really want. I sort of had all these ideas for stuff that I would love to do with with glasses if they were in that way. And I talked about it on previous episodes of this podcast way back. I really wanted it. Daniel (51:33) Hmm. David Gary Wood (51:36) but what they actually brought out last year was not an everybody device. And it was probably, you know, a few years away from something like that. and so it was disappointing in a lot of ways. I wanted an iPhone moment. I wanted a, yeah, there's this thing and lots of people are going to get it and it opens up this big space and the vision pros not been there. so my enthusiasm is like not there because of that. So if we're going to go there and there is an everybody device or some sort of progression of this, I just really hope they nail it. You know, more than anything else, I want all of that enthusiasm I had back. yeah, I mean, you know, even just having something that was just my glasses, but then I didn't need a screen in front of me, for example, like I could actually do away with the monitor on my desk. And it was so good that, you know, That's just that. That would be good for me. I don't necessarily need it to be something that is full on all the time. But yeah, I hope they do it. And if Glass is a preparatory step, then great. If it opens up other device classes and hardware, then I think that's great. And I don't hate it. I quite like. I think you're right on Mac OS, Glass might look a bit this to Fisher pricey here and there. But that's something I think they'll probably dial in as well. So dude, I really want you to install it on the SSD and then report back. And I know you're going to do it at some point. I know you are. So when you do, let's talk about it. Yeah. Yeah. And then maybe I will too. Daniel (53:06) I will, I will at some point, yeah. And then we can record live from Lake Tahoe. David Gary Wood (53:16) Yeah, maybe I should take my own push here and find an extra drive and do it myself as well. Daniel (53:22) Yeah. Like, don't you have, like, is my Mac OS beta SSD. Like, comes out once a year and then it just lives in the drawer the rest of year. David Gary Wood (53:29) Bop. Bop. No, I do not, but maybe I should. Daniel (53:37) Yeah, but the problem is just like, because like, when I use my computer for actual work, like just say have a lot of specialty tools installed. Like I have like, I don't know, like programming environments and everything. And so like a bare installation of Mac OS is just not very like fun to be like, and I'm a default person. Like I like... David Gary Wood (53:47) Mm-hmm. a lot of work, right? Yeah. Daniel (54:02) using the default stuff as much as possible because it just removes decisions. So I use the regular mail app. use, I don't know, iMessage, but like even those need to be set up. And yeah. David Gary Wood (54:09) Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I mean, I've got my favorite thing. obviously, we chat using signal. So I'll have to put that on because that's kind of my default these days. But and then. Daniel (54:24) and then it will be buggy and the programming stuff will be... I don't know. I might just install it on the SSD just for noodling around. If it runs Chrome, then I can join the podcast from there see how that goes. But yeah, let's see. David Gary Wood (54:38) Yep. Yeah, let's see. Let's see. And maybe I'll join you because I'll get curious as well. So but on that note, Daniel, read us out. I think we're at the end of the line. Daniel (54:50) Yes, otherwise this won't be a tiny episode. It won't be a big one. So thanks for listening. Please read us on iTunes and YouTube, us emails at contact at waitingforreview.com and join our Discord. The link is in the show notes. Dave, where can people find you? David Gary Wood (55:05) You can find me over on Instagram. My account there is lightbmaps.com. yeah. And then maybe a bit more detail. You can also check out my apps just at lightbeamapps.com. That's what I have the Instagram title. Daniel (55:18) Fantastic. right. Send me fun little messages on mastodon at daniel at social dot telemetry.com and I still haven't changed my blue sky username to anything readable. So I will do that at some point. Your chore, which we've got at the beginning, but like your chore until next week is Install the beta somewhere. Send a screenshot. David Gary Wood (55:44) I think you've given that one back to me. Una reverse. Daniel (55:48) No, it's not your chore, it's the listener's chore. I want to see lots of cool beta screenshots. David Gary Wood (55:51) Okay, okay, well I might do it anyway. All right, well, let's see. And on that note, Daniel, great talking to you. Take care, mate. Daniel (56:02) Pleasure was all mine. All right, see you next week. David Gary Wood (56:06) See you time. Bye. Daniel (56:07) Bye! ⁓