Daniel (00:03.0)
The bit of the week is pronouncing everything with a W instead of an R.

S4e26 (00:12.434)
okay. Welcome to waiting for with

Daniel (00:14.414)
Because I recently

Daniel (00:19.966)
Exactly that. Welcome to... I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. Hey, welcome to Waiting for WeeWeeWoo, a show about the majestic indie developer lifestyle. Join your scintillating hosts, Dave and Daniel, and let's hear about a tiny slice of their willing lives. Join us while waiting for WeeWeeWoo.

S4e26 (00:50.098)
That did sound very silly and obviously I'll caveat with I wouldn't want to make fun of somebody who can't pronounce their R's otherwise but I would also hasten that with it didn't stop Jonathan Woss in the UK. He's done very well for himself as a presenter.

Daniel (01:08.463)
No, not at all. Like, I just noticed this week somehow that some people, some Germans, they can pronounce all kinds of R. They can pronounce erotic R, like they can pronounce an R that's like more soft. But as soon as they switch to English, and they will have perfect English, but they will tell you all about the Rockefeller Center.

S4e26 (01:27.922)
Gotcha.

Daniel (01:29.14)
And that is just so amusing to me. Like I'm beginning to like sometimes slip into it. That's just my bit of the week.

S4e26 (01:34.546)
Brilliant. Well, we've covered our intro, so I feel at ease, Daniel. The intro always helps to put me into show mode as it was, as it is. Pretty well, yeah. Yeah, pretty well, thank you. It's been an interesting, I want to say last week, it feels like longer somehow. Yeah, but no, I've, well.

Daniel (01:44.228)
Fantastic. Fantastic. How's it going?

S4e26 (02:04.734)
our first show notes that we put ahead of, ahead of recording the show, you asked me how's Focus going, which is my NDI switcher app. it's in the store. It's, it's there. and in fact, actually by the time this goes out, yeah. by the time this goes out, I will have quote unquote launched it. So, I haven't really pushed it on the socials or anywhere really. made a post on Instagram that sort of vaguely mentioned.

Daniel (02:11.694)
Mm

Daniel (02:17.208)
Fantastic.

S4e26 (02:35.387)
the App Store submission. I actually had to do a video for Apple. So as I may have mentioned on the show before actually, I sort of predicted I might need to record a video that shows the app in use because I've experienced that before with my video mixer app. That happened. I had to cut

Daniel (02:41.304)
Mm -hmm.

S4e26 (03:00.526)
a video showing connecting NDI feeds to the app with a couple of other devices. Spoiler, Govj sends NDI output. So that was easy for me. And I hooked it up to the TV that YouTube viewers will be able to see behind me on the wall and recorded the output. And I'll put that on Instagram after the fact as well. So a few people have downloaded it from there, but I'm going to push it properly.

in a day or two's time when I've got more time to do so. And that'll be the launch. And yeah, so far I think I've had probably about 10 people download it out of the blue. Nobody's bought it yet, but yeah.

Daniel (03:43.534)
Fantastic. All right. Do you get any usage statistics? Like are the 10 people who downloaded it actually using it, or are they just like noodling around? Like because that would be interesting to me. Are they downloading it because they are like, what is this? Or are they downloading it because they think, this is exactly what I need?

S4e26 (03:51.276)
S4e26 (03:57.028)
I need to have more of a look.

S4e26 (04:07.162)
Yeah, yeah, that's a good question. And I'm just logging into a handy analytics service, actually.

Daniel (04:14.4)
Is it, it telemetry deck?

S4e26 (04:16.786)
It is to LemmoTreeJack. Give me one second. Turn them all into W's. Come here, where's my sign in? Yeah, one second. Excuse me. I'm halfway through switching password managers to Proton and not everything is in Proton. But anyway, I'm logging in. I'm checking the NDI switcher. I've had 53 users. It's gone up a

Daniel (04:20.27)
I gotta register that domain.

S4e26 (04:46.674)
bit. Hmm. Are they doing much in the app? Good question. This is actually quite an interest, a good, first look through things and I can see here like one second. Telemetry deck session started and I also have a new session began. They're up in the 226 sessions.

yeah, this is going to take me more time to explore than we've got time for on the show, Daniel, but, yeah.

Daniel (05:23.47)
But around 50 issues and over 200 sessions, means that the average user has launched the app multiple times, which is a good sign.

S4e26 (05:31.652)
Yeah.

S4e26 (05:35.182)
Exactly. It is a good sign. But I think some of that may be distorted by my test flight phase and because I don't have different projects for different apps set up for test flight versus production. So that might be that. But in any case.

Daniel (05:50.702)
Fair enough.

The SDK should discover whether it's like a test -flight build or a F -SER build. So there might be a signal property automatically added to all the signals.

S4e26 (06:06.128)
Nice. Well, I'll give that another look when we're not in the middle of trying to record the show, but yeah. Anyway, I think you're probably detecting this part of me doesn't really care. There's a bit of me that's quite happy to have had released the app and put it out there. It will be another app in light beam apps portfolio, which is great. I created it because I wanted to have this thing exist.

Daniel (06:09.55)
Fair.

Daniel (06:21.709)
Mm -hmm.

S4e26 (06:35.602)
But I'm also pretty aware that it's quite a specific niche. You have to really know what you're looking for to find it, to want it, for it to have any utility to you. And in a lot of ways, I think that does segue into kind of where my head's at at the moment, actually, with all of the light beam apps and things I'm trying to put together as an indie developer. So I don't feel bad if this one flops.

be honest with you, I don't have any big expectations riding on it but

Daniel (07:08.428)
Yeah, but that's a good mindset, feel like. Just throw stuff out there with high quality stuff, but don't get married to any individual tiny little cute app.

S4e26 (07:23.93)
Yeah, exactly. But anyway, yeah, that's that that is released is in the store. It's not had the push that it needs. And I'll do that this weekend. However, I have also created, however, I've created another app in the last couple of weeks. OK, so this one may have

Daniel (07:47.708)
Ooh, do tell.

Daniel (07:52.427)
Wait, a new one? A new one?

S4e26 (07:53.97)
A new one, yeah, brand new one. This is not, yeah, yeah, yeah. Not just an update. This is like, another app. Yeah. I didn't tell you about this, did I? This is, I think this is news. Yes. Okay. So my eldest son, he is 18 now. He is a 3D modeler maker.

Daniel (08:04.674)
No.

S4e26 (08:19.696)
He has his own YouTube channel and everything and he is really into Transformers and he is making a big Transformer. If you know about Transformers, it's a guy with a cassette tape player in the middle of him called Soundwave.

Daniel (08:35.546)
that is the coolest. Didn't he make a model of that transformer already? I figure I saw some video, but I might be mistaken. Anyway, probably just saw a meme or something.

S4e26 (08:42.868)
not of her, but he

S4e26 (08:47.76)
He made...

S4e26 (08:53.362)
Yeah, he made a transforming cassette last year. So that might have been what you saw. So the new design that he's building, has a, it has like a Walkman style cassette player embedded in the middle. So it will actually play cassettes and he's routed speakers as well to the feet. And it probably stands about, I want to say about 50, 60 centimeters high in total.

Daniel (08:57.565)
All

Daniel (09:14.988)
Nice.

S4e26 (09:23.164)
This is pretty big build.

Daniel (09:25.095)
it's an actual physical model. I thought he was modeling it in Blender or something.

S4e26 (09:27.494)
Yeah, yeah, 3D printed. Well, bits of it start off there, but then it's gone to FreeCAD and it's actually been, he's been printing it for the last couple of weeks and sanding it and doing all of the process. Yeah. I'm getting to the bit about the app, don't worry. Soundwave in the show, he has a display over the top of the cassette player bit. And sometimes it shows different images like,

Daniel (09:53.122)
Mm -hmm.

S4e26 (09:57.242)
when he has this little drone in some shows that comes back to him and then plays back video in the middle of his chest of what it's seen. And we figured that this old little, I want to say old, it is old now, I can pick it up and show it on the camera actually. iPod Touch, the second to last generation. Yeah, they were great test devices.

Daniel (10:22.513)
I have the very same one. That was my, yeah, exactly. That was my test device. I think it's still like floating around here somewhere. I don't

S4e26 (10:28.698)
Yeah.

S4e26 (10:33.946)
It was the device that my lad had before he got a phone. So when he was in that sort of like, I guess in his tweens, as it were. And that's actually a real W in the word there, Daniel.

Daniel (10:40.076)
Mm -hmm.

Daniel (10:52.312)
You

S4e26 (10:56.39)
So iPod Touch slots in the middle of this transformer design and he wants it to play a video so that it can look like it did in the show. And of course he wants it to play a video on

Daniel (11:09.568)
Mm -hmm.

S4e26 (11:10.834)
Now, okay, I don't quite have an app for doing that. My VJ app plays videos on loop, but it doesn't play them full screen on the device itself. It plays them full screen on the video app. So what I did is I created a very, very quick UI kit based because it's iOS 12 on that device application for loading a video and then playing it on loop full screen.

So that's what it does. It's literally load a video in or load several videos and you can actually page between them and swipe between them, but they also play as you do so. yeah, yeah. So.

Daniel (11:50.904)
That's cool.

Looks more self contained. I like.

S4e26 (11:58.606)
Hmm. So that's in review at the moment and it's tiny, right? I mean, I've barely made a landing page for this app. The landing page is just the app's icon and a list of things like it's easy to use your videos loop forever. Good for presentations, merchandise stands, art installations, that sort of thing.

Daniel (12:06.028)
Mm -hmm.

Daniel (12:23.328)
I can totally see the, see it, it like, or even with an iPad or something, is just put an iPad somewhere, let the video loop like this, cool for an expo stand, yeah.

S4e26 (12:28.752)
Yep. Yep.

S4e26 (12:34.322)
Yes, yeah, and so I mean, I've tagged it with it supports iOS 12 onwards. And so it's good if you've got an old device you want to put to use as well. Yeah, so fingers crossed. I may have a two app release weekend if it goes through review over the next day.

Daniel (12:53.882)
wow.

S4e26 (12:58.692)
So, not one, but two.

Daniel (13:02.574)
Two apps, two apps in one week, you're a machine.

S4e26 (13:06.546)
I'd love to say that. I'd love to say like, I'm so good. can just keep cranking them out. It's like, it is a tiny, a tiny little app.

Daniel (13:15.086)
I can do this all day.

S4e26 (13:18.268)
I know this, it's a Mac OS system.

Daniel (13:23.466)
I understood that reference.

S4e26 (13:27.086)
And I understood that one. This is getting very meta. Anyway. Yeah. So that's my world, Daniel. That's what's been going on on this side. And it actually, we can riff on this in a bit later in the show, because I want to hear about your world and what's been going on first, I think. But the teaser that I will offer to that is.

it has pulled me out of looking at multi -platform stuff. I've got a few ideas as to what that really looks like and what I should really be doing. So anyway, yes.

Daniel (14:02.35)
So no more KMP for you this week.

S4e26 (14:06.542)
Not this week and probably not for a few more weeks but yeah anyway we'll talk about that later or on another

Daniel (14:09.964)
Right, fair.

Daniel (14:14.7)
My world. Last time I told you, I was moving my servers. And I had already moved my servers, I think. And now they've just like basically, basically, basically, basically they've been just humming along. They are so much more stable. like, can just throw stuff at them. And worst case is they get slower. But they don't self -destruct like they used to.

S4e26 (14:42.866)
That's cool.

Daniel (14:43.566)
The compaction process, which is like the self -cleaner process, works now and has, as of now, compacted around 12 -ish percent of the data set, depending on how you count. You can either count days or size. And I think by days, it is way less, but by size, already at 12%, because, of course, recent days are bigger than days from 2021.

And so you already see the speed ups with the queries and stuff. so yeah, the process has now reached mid -June or so. And so soon it'll reach the point where, like the default right now in telemetry dig is it shows the last 30 days. And if that entire period will be compacted, like it will be even like just all the queries in that period will be even faster. I'm so looking forward to that.

S4e26 (15:18.064)
Brilliant.

Daniel (15:40.632)
So yeah, that's working and that's really good. And in the meantime, I just had basically a rain, a shower of stuff that was just like held back before, like suddenly came just like down on me. And so I've just been dealing with like hundred tiny things basically, which is a bit exhausting to be honest, because I way prefer

like getting my hands dirty on like one cool technical problem. But on the other hand, I was also able to reap the benefits of my work on delegating stuff. So it is still a bit rough because I don't know how to be, like I used to think I know how to be a good boss.

S4e26 (16:26.738)
Hey, awesome.

Daniel (16:40.12)
But that was always within the context of a larger organization. I still have to learn how to be a good boss in a tiny organization, but it's getting better. And I'm beginning to be able to delegate tasks to various minions. Who would probably object to being called minions, but what are you going to do? Complain on your own podcasts. I know you have them.

S4e26 (16:48.892)
Mm -hmm.

S4e26 (17:02.162)
Help.

Daniel (17:10.016)
Like every now and then they get blocked because they need a review from me or like, I don't know, logins or whatever. But because I'm very strongly trying to push everything into either Snack or GitHub. like these are the two things where technical work is happening, like mostly GitHub, but then for some discussions, a bit of of Slack. That's also easier to deal with and I can like easier find out when people are.

are blocked and can then hop into a code review or a quick call or whatever. And so yeah, is, it's been a chaotic week, but it's been very productive and like, all that work. It's, it feels so chaotic, but still like everything that I've done in the last few months has had one, like one of let's say three themes. And

After just after weeks of, hey, this feels very chaotic, suddenly like a pattern begins to emerge because like, even if I'm just taking small steps, they still progress and you can see that and it's really cool and very satisfying.

S4e26 (18:24.274)
I love that. love that. Out of the chaoticness as you described it, you've now got a process emerging of sorts. yeah, yeah, it's cool.

Daniel (18:38.69)
And I wish the process was a bit more clear cut, but I think it just has to develop. think I just have to suffer through that, because otherwise it's not going to

S4e26 (18:52.496)
No, no, I'd agree. And I think, like I say, it's not just you who's building process, right? It's your team. It's the people you, your, your minions, as it were. Thank you, Gru. Minions!

Daniel (19:06.51)
Minions! Tonight we steal Davun! My nieces are super into Minions 4

S4e26 (19:11.282)
Have your place.

yes, I saw the advert for that in the cinema the other day. No, I was going say it's not just you developing this process, it's your minions as well, it's your people, it's everybody involved. So it's all a bit of a dance. But the key thing I think to pull from what you've said is that you've established these clear lines of communication, right? Slack is for X, Y and Z, GitHub is for, you

XYZ and AA or whatever. yeah, you know, like that means that you are then able to compartmentalize a bit better, I would imagine. And it also helps them in the same regard, right? There's a place for this. So I think it's really good. And I can see that I suspect anyway that you're...

lines of communication, your delegation, the rhythm as it were in, three months, six months, nine months time or whatever it is. Yeah.

Daniel (20:17.234)
It's building up and I can already see like they are getting faster and more like they're just like really picking up speed. Like these are incredibly like they are professionals who are incredibly good at what they're doing. And it's so nice. It's like I'm behind with the pull request reviews because like, I got a review. I got a review this one as well.

S4e26 (20:41.714)
Daniel (20:43.892)
And, I really appreciate

S4e26 (20:46.844)
That's cool. That's cool. think that the...

Daniel (20:48.13)
Yeah, I also I wrote it. I wrote it in the show notes. I wrote into the show notes. I want to talk about delegation, but I mistyped delegation and it says Delegatino.

S4e26 (21:03.058)
Yes! And I spotted it as you typed it actually because of the way Notes was updating in real time, which was great. yeah, Delegatino!

Daniel (21:17.422)
Could be like a specific small cat maybe, I don't know.

S4e26 (21:22.03)
Yeah, yeah, maybe so. Sorry, I looked to my side because I do have a small cat next to me in the office.

Daniel (21:30.51)
Can I have the pizza delicatino please and no mozzarella.

S4e26 (21:37.776)
Meow.

Daniel (21:38.956)
Meow.

So yeah, that adventure is ongoing. Tomorrow, I'm going to move the last bits that are still in the old hosting provider, which is the things that are going to remain containers, which is the ingest API and the query API and the export runner and a few other small containers. Tomorrow, I'm going to move those. So wish me luck. And then I'm going

S4e26 (22:07.184)
Nice. Yeah. Good luck on that. And,

Daniel (22:09.902)
Then I'm gonna switch to DNS and then all hell will break loose.

S4e26 (22:14.066)
Yes, it hella break loose but only in certain regions at different points during the day and eventually it becomes consistent is my experience with DNS.

Daniel (22:22.796)
Yeah, well, since especially with the ingest API, like the old ingest API is already feeding into the new message queue, right? And so if I host a copy of that under a new address, but then like just like switch the DNS from one to the other, then I think every signal that gets sent to me should either arrive at the old war than one and like feed into the same message queue. So I figure it should be fine, but

S4e26 (22:47.622)
Yep. It should, but should is a low bearing word. So yes, we'll tread carefully.

Daniel (22:54.36)
Sure, there's a load there.

So let's see.

S4e26 (23:00.978)
Well, I'm glad you're on the other side of this big move. I know it's been quite a big quite a big deal for you. And yeah, hopefully by this time next week when we're recording, you can say yes, even the final bits have now moved and.

Daniel (23:15.768)
Yeah. And now I'm in this in -between period where there's just a little bit of loosey -goosey, like picking up the loose ends and also just seeing a few, sanding off a few rough edges of the user interface every now and then before it gets onto the next item on the roadmap. next item is the pricing system needs just an overhaul, especially in how just, how whole product is programmed.

S4e26 (23:35.749)
Awesome.

Daniel (23:45.518)
because it has been connecting dust for a while. And it's very much creaking. pricing itself will get a slight update. And I'm like, I got to do it. And it's not even going to increase prices terribly or something, but it just needs to be done. But then after that, I don't want to talk about it yet, but I'm so looking forward to that.

S4e26 (24:10.414)
Okay, well I'll prod you a bit, that's certainly on future shows like...

Daniel (24:13.036)
Sure, sure. Once it's getting a bit closer.

S4e26 (24:17.04)
Yeah, yeah. But that's awesome. That's awesome. That means you like say you're on the other side of what was a pretty big mountain. And I know on previous show, I think I described you as fossilized, crushed under the weight of so many tasks. You're looking a bit bit fresher now in that regard.

Daniel (24:32.706)
Yeah.

Daniel (24:40.748)
I am, yeah. I mean, there's still like a huge ton of tasks, but I don't

S4e26 (24:47.462)
Yep, no ISIS.

Daniel (24:48.843)
There's also just a feeling of accomplishment.

And so yeah, that's pushing a lot. And then new office is helping too because it's very refreshing to work

S4e26 (25:01.104)
Nice, nice, yes. And we linked it all up in the show notes on the previous show, but it is looking very, very swish, very, how can I put it? Open is sort of the vibe I get from it. Open and bright.

Daniel (25:15.842)
Yeah. So someone said it's as if Johnny Ive decided, designed a laser tech arena.

S4e26 (25:23.934)
yeah, yeah I could see that. After you recorded that time lapse that you sent to me going through, one thing that occurred to me certainly like when it's in that state of being opened up that it is at the moment so you don't have so many other folk in the rest of the space, it looked like it'd be great for drones you know like those racing drones where people VR through them. Yeah, yeah.

Daniel (25:48.852)
yeah, I can totally see that. I have what could, what amounts to a drone. I have a Sphero, which is a tiny robot in the form of a sphere that is kind of programmable. And I actually have the one that looks like BB -8, so it has a little head on top. And I haven't used that for ages and ages, but the other day I was like, I need something to decorate the office. So I took it with me in the office and I think I got to charge it up and just like run it around every now and then.

S4e26 (26:04.371)
Yay. Yep.

S4e26 (26:16.496)
Yeah, you can let people who come by play with it as well.

Daniel (26:20.436)
It's just like we are in fact in one of the upper balconies. So I gotta carry it down. Just like fall to its death. Yeah, I want to talk about one other thing that I've been doing, which is I wrote it into our show notes as like very dramatic Twitter is dead. I mean Twitter has been dead for a while, right? Ever since

S4e26 (26:32.341)
No.

S4e26 (26:47.654)
Yes. Yes.

Daniel (26:48.034)
move to X or whatever. But what I mean is this. I've been talking to Lisa the other day about the fact that she was bummed out that it used to be I would post stuff on Twitter in my own voice and with my own kind of humor. And thousands of people would see it, react to it, share it, then also just like get like turn their attention also to telemetry deck. And so that was a really cool channel for both meeting

I'm meeting cool people and also meeting my audience. this, course, a considerable overlap there. And like ever since the Exodus, yeah, it hasn't been the same. And there's no direct replacement. Like threads is not as big. Like I feel like there's no engagement there to me at

S4e26 (27:30.38)
Exodus. Nice.

S4e26 (27:46.394)
Yeah,

Daniel (27:47.726)
Blue sky is a nice little corner with really cute people, like, there's not so many people in blue sky. Mastodon is really fun and I like hanging out there, but reach wise is not very good. Like I had a guy really, actually I've got like a tiny bit viral just today with a post, but still it's like,

that is not ideal for reaching a large number of people. Reddit works a little bit. So I want to be a bit more on Reddit, in the future. But, and then these, was like, do you, would you consider going back to Twitter and just like posting there just like for the company sake? Because like, I mean, we need to, we need to like get the word out. Like this is just like my job, right? And I was like, it feels like it,

S4e26 (28:34.0)
Mm -hmm. Yeah, something to think about, something to try.

Daniel (28:42.062)
Even if I push aside my moral obligations, it feels like something that wouldn't really yield much, that wouldn't move the needle. Because I'm very convinced that the 10 % of people who are still remaining on Twitter, I probably love most of them, or many of them, but I need something that has as much reach as possible.

S4e26 (28:52.7)
Yeah.

Daniel (29:10.056)
I was like, wait, actually, like, I think that I feel like the future of social media is the next big thing in social media is like short form video. If it's either it's TikTok or Reels or YouTube shorts or whatever. And so I was like, and I said this and then Lisa was like, yeah, well then just going to do short form video then Daniel. How about them apples? And my heart sank because I realized I have to talk myself into a corner, but yeah.

S4e26 (29:29.17)
Yeah, just do it.

Daniel (29:39.862)
I started doing that. I reactivated the telemetry leg account on all the short form video platforms. I am familiarizing myself with CapCut.

S4e26 (29:41.818)
Okay.

S4e26 (29:52.251)
OK, yes.

Daniel (29:53.182)
I am and I'm just like like I wrote down to like we opened up a shared document with like all kinds of like post ideas and we're just gonna try it out basically so actually yesterday I managed to to merge an unfinished pull request that kind of took down took down the query server for for a short while and so yeah I just took a video of me looking dejected

while it was kind of like rebuilding itself because I was like, I just like finished the server move and now everything is stable. And now I just kick it over because I'm But yeah, that got reasonably decent reach, especially for an account with no followers yet. And so today I was like, hey, I wrote this nice postal message and I'm just going to post a screenshot with like music behind. And that also was

S4e26 (30:30.46)
Mm -hmm.

S4e26 (30:39.462)
Right.

Daniel (30:49.454)
It got about the same amount of likes as I got on Mastodon. I got like 1500 followers on Mastodon and no followers on that, or like four followers on that TikTok account. So yeah, I'm gonna continue experimenting with it. I feel like it might be fun once I get over the hump of being shy and feeling like I don't wanna be perceived too much.

S4e26 (30:55.122)
Mm -hmm.

Daniel (31:18.434)
But it's not the Daniel account, it's the TelemetryDig account. So I want to try and find a mix between just fun, stupid, whimsy Daniel stuff, and also just every now and then I want to try explaining things. And there's a specific format where people on TikTok or other platforms

S4e26 (31:24.124)
I get

Daniel (31:43.726)
explain things is where they say a few sentences and then they pause the recording so that they don't fill everything with ums and ahs and preparing the next thing that they want to show you. And I think I'm going to be so awkward doing that for the first 10 -ish ones. But I guess I got to go through them. I just got to blast through those 10 awkward ones to have like 20 slightly less awkward ones.

S4e26 (32:04.092)
Might

S4e26 (32:08.986)
Yeah, so.

S4e26 (32:13.618)
You're making me think about quite a few things because I've had a similar journey actually enough in a few ways. Like I'm not doing the sort of short form video you're describing, but long time listeners at the show and anybody who's followed me as I moved from Twitter to Mastodon and kind of threw everything out in the process, right? I rejected all forms of

big social media for probably about 18 months, nearly two years in a lot of ways, on the way out of Twitter. And some of that was just because I was so morally offended by the way Twitter's, you know, demise under, under, its current leadership happened.

Yeah. And some of that was also solidarity with, developers at Twitter and sort of feeling very annoyed about how good people got laid off in the process. It's a whole lot of stuff for me that was tied up in, in just that mess. And then I want to say probably six months ago, I started experimenting with Instagram as I was developing the, the, the govj three updates.

And a couple of things clicks that should have been obvious from the start. If I think about it, which is for a video app, posting videos to, yeah, certainly for an app for people who like making creative things with videos, those people are on Instagram. They're not on master done. They're not, they weren't even on Twitter in the first place, right? They've been hanging out in Instagram, I guess somewhere on tech talk. haven't really gone too far there yet myself, but what I found on Instagram was

similar to what you're describing is that it had that sort of return on my investment, if you like, in terms of people actually engaging, actually having a bit of a reply back to what I was posting. I've got a few people over there who are watching what I do now, you know, because they're actually interested. So I noticed familiar accounts and faces now replying to me or liking stuff, which is lovely. I've even made a

S4e26 (34:26.028)
friend through it as well which has been unexpected. But all of this is a long way of me sort of saying yeah I get it like there is almost no escaping these platforms this is where a lot of people are and you can sort of put any ethical thoughts about that to one side if you consider the fact that if that's where people are and you are not reaching them

Daniel (34:28.462)
Nice.

S4e26 (34:54.846)
There is an argument to say that you are, you're obviously you're limiting the reach of your product, but you're also limiting the amount of benefit your product can have. There is actually a sort of almost social good to finding people where they are so they can then find something they're going to benefit from. I can certainly rationalize it.

Yeah, anyway, if somebody is not interested in what you're putting out, they'll just tell the program that, show me less of this, ignore this, move on, right? I think the thing for me that I haven't done that I think you are doing now is I haven't explored all the platforms. So I've certainly not been putting everything that I post on Instagram onto TikTok and I probably should. Like there's no reason not to.

Daniel (35:48.111)
Why? mean, like once you make the video, it's like a trivial tool. I posted them manually, cross posting them manually to YouTube and Instagram and TikTok. But like, mean, there's even platforms to do

S4e26 (35:52.686)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

S4e26 (36:01.136)
Yeah, sometimes they're fine because I make the video up in Instagram that feels less natural, right? I'm like, I put the text on in there now I've got to put the text on over in TikTok as well. And it's because I'm not mastering it.

Daniel (36:11.874)
I would like, I don't know. I don't know about Instagram, but like what I usually do as like I compose them inside TikTok or CapCut. And that means it exports when you post it, it auto exports the whole video and then adds like the two second TikTok thing at the end. you cut that away and then you have a video to post on this as

S4e26 (36:25.008)
Yeah. You can.

S4e26 (36:33.842)
I should do it that way around because on Instagram it kind of watermarks it with the Instagram thing in a corner. Yeah. Right. Okay.

Daniel (36:39.21)
It does that too on TikTok, I think, but I mean, who cares? Like half the content on Instagram Reels has the TikTok quarter

S4e26 (36:44.326)
I

S4e26 (36:48.42)
Yeah, true. Probably vice versa. There's a fair flow. But yeah, I should. I really should. And then to see like what is working and the same for YouTube shorts and that sort of thing as well. Right. Again, for the sake of an upload, you might as well. But yeah, I think it's interesting to me. It's interesting to see what works, what doesn't. I think it's a fair call to say what was.

maybe three years ago or so on Twitter just really isn't what it is now. I also find with Twitter, like if I, when I have checked back into the activity that is going on there is incredibly self referential as well. Like it's become very, you know, one person posts something and it gets a bit of traction, it's like it's traction within almost a closed loop. It's not really spinning out as it seems. Yeah.

Daniel (37:41.92)
Right, Huh. Yeah, there's the tracks.

S4e26 (37:48.67)
But the same is true for Mastodon, right? Is that it's small and so I think, yeah, look, it's a lot of effort, but you could batch the videos as well. You you could come up with a few ideas of stuff listed out as a list of videos to make and then make two or three at once, for example, and you've got that week's ones in the bag.

Daniel (38:18.85)
Yeah, like one format that that we thought about was like, just like criticizing or critiquing critiquing app onboarding and stuff like that, you know, like just pick a popular app to a screen recording and say, Hey, this is cool, because this gets people into the app very quickly, or this is not as cool because introduces friction. And then like that is very like close to

S4e26 (38:38.919)
Mm -hmm.

Daniel (38:43.426)
like the audience that we want to have, or just like explain stuff about analytics, about data science.

S4e26 (38:50.406)
Nice. Yeah, I like that. And the one thing that could be fun is maybe like linking up with people. Yeah, fun. You could maybe link up with people to do a review of their analytics. Like, you know, I was looking through earlier on in the show and sort of finding my way with my new app. Well, yeah, maybe there's a world where we actually

Daniel (39:01.116)
Fun?

Daniel (39:11.504)
yeah.

S4e26 (39:19.106)
That something like that becomes your content. Let's take a look through. Let's find the friction in your flow. Yeah.

Daniel (39:22.348)
Yeah, that could

Daniel (39:26.21)
Yeah, mean, I have, like with your content, could just like log into your account and then just like have a look, you

S4e26 (39:36.696)
Oof. I mean, if that comes with a side note of any sort of like review or like, Hey dude, this is, this is some drop off for you over here. Then yeah, you've got my consent. Go for it.

Daniel (39:50.51)
Yeah, I'm like, I'm gonna I'm gonna ask again before I do anything like that. yeah, like, we put we I would consider it. So anyway, I'm, this is the start of the journey, I think. And let's see where it goes. Because it does take it doesn't take a lot of time. But you need to, you need to feel the vibe, you know, I feel like especially on short form video, you can't fake

S4e26 (39:56.282)
Yeah, yeah,

S4e26 (40:13.489)
You do.

Daniel (40:17.514)
or you can't fake it, you totally can fake it, but you need to have a specific drive and energy and vibe. And if you don't have that, then it will fail. Or people will be like, yeah, this is fake.

S4e26 (40:30.278)
What

The thing I'm seeing in Instagram as well is like, it's, it's, there's a lot of repetition. You know, people tend to pick a format, they pick a persona, they put out, you know, tons and tons of videos in that same vein. And then, you know, well, that leads to quite naturally is like, you see one and you're like, cool. That was fun. And you go and click through their profile or whatever, and you end up like scrolling a whole load of similar stuff.

until you're bored, until you've had your fill, you know, yes, enough tiny slices, scintillating slices, Daniel. Yeah. I think the question Marko will have is, is whether it drives the type of value to your business that you're after, after a point. I think that's something you've got to be quite. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But seriously, like with it being efforts and all the rest of

Daniel (41:04.514)
That's enough slices!

Daniel (41:09.496)
Yes, scintillating slices.

Daniel (41:22.743)
Only one way to find out.

S4e26 (41:31.484)
there's a point where if you've given it a good go and it's not really giving you what you need then you gotta try something else or whatever. yeah.

Daniel (41:38.882)
Yeah, like, I just want to try it out, you know, and I think I also because now we have a really good website, like it's technically very good, but also the content is getting is like, is like really good. And there's like these landing pages and stuff like that. And especially speaking of delegation, I have now made it so that my coworkers like Lisa and one other person can just

without me doing anything, I just edit and create new pages and everything. And so that's really cool because, especially Lisa is doing so much work right now in just adding more pages and stuff like that. so now we have a really cool website as well. now I think it's time to drive people there. And so the TikToks is one thing. And then I think I want to be a bit on Reddit. I don't know if that's really...

with that will work well. on the other hand, like last year, we did a few Reddit ads, and they were actually, they were working way better than any other ads that we posted off, posted, which is fun. So yeah, maybe that, maybe post a few more Google ads as well. Now we have the landing pages for them, but let's see.

S4e26 (42:59.334)
I think it's interesting because my marketing game has slacked in the last month and I feel a similar need to sort of be like reviewing what I'm doing, making sure that I've got some idea of this sort of stuff. Like again, I've been posting stuff to Instagram as I've been developing and that's been great. But then when I'm not in developing mode. Yeah, exactly. And I don't think there's any harm to that.

Daniel (43:23.482)
yeah. Build in public.

S4e26 (43:28.754)
but what's happened happened then is that, my foot drops off the gas once it's released. And that's actually the worst time to do so. I've, yeah, yeah, it's easy. It's easy to keep posting when you're building in public and there's something to talk about. so, as, you sort of motivated me here, Daniel, I feel like I've got to go and make my own list of, of content.

Daniel (43:40.059)
I feel you now.

S4e26 (43:58.042)
as it were, and then at least put it out to Instagram. Content is king or queen.

Daniel (44:01.48)
Everything is content.

Daniel (44:06.68)
You gotta stay content.

S4e26 (44:09.296)
Yes, yes. They will. They will. But Daniel, I'm kind of feeling content full at this point in the show.

Daniel (44:10.474)
or people will become contentious.

Daniel (44:18.99)
Yeah, me too.

Daniel (44:25.898)
In that case, let's call it a day and night. A day and night,

S4e26 (44:31.354)
A day and I - ooh, that's a show title maybe.

Daniel (44:34.923)
I can't finish the show because you called this show, you wrote the wrong episode number into the show notes. But I've corrected it. it's mutable data. Fantastic. Fantastic, to quote my favorite Doctor Who. All right.

S4e26 (44:42.628)
It's mutable data. Fix it.

mutable data mate in

S4e26 (44:53.734)
You taking the mic?

Daniel (45:01.806)
anyway, listeners, thank you so much for listening. Please rate us on iTunes and YouTube and or send us emails to contact at waitingforreview .com and join our discord. link is in the show notes. Dave, where can people find you on the internet so they can rave to your fantastic VJ videos and or other content?

S4e26 (45:26.554)
I'm going to take my Instagram feed, is lightbeamapps .com, spelled D -O -T -C -O on the end. So it's all one word. And I will link that in the show notes to make anybody's life easier to just click and go and have a look. That's all I'm going to say this week. You can look at previous episodes for a whole bunch of other links, but how about yourself, Daniel?

Daniel (45:50.1)
well, in this case, go to TikTok and follow Telemetry Deck. Just one word, Telemetry Deck, and post orange hearts in my comments, because why not?

Don't post blue hearts because apparently the alt -right in Germany has taken those

S4e26 (46:07.718)
yes and this is and honestly like you've yeah vibe check first I think was the note you said so yes that's anyway orange charts orange charts or orange hearts?

Daniel (46:08.238)
So post orange hearts!

Daniel (46:23.448)
Both are actually very fitting and I will be super happy to receive

S4e26 (46:29.434)
Nice one. Thank you, Daniel. Well, take

Daniel (46:31.374)
All right, you too have a great

S4e26 (46:35.463)
Bye bye, Daniel.

Daniel (46:36.696)
Bye! Ha, you thought I wasn't gonna do