so it's not the middle and the top that gets unless the top gets super efficient right you
still need the middle it's the sort of intro that you don't need anymore yeah and so the new hires
as the efficiency improves that's the first wave that we'll see a pushback um yeah but the one
observation i have is uh people maybe has been here for a couple of years we're the most nervous
people who are trying to learn and adapt and the new hires are more like hey i want to do my manual
stuff i don't want to adapt that's a very strange uh behavior well because uh so again the new hires
let's just call it software engineers right so a software engineer is trained to to never create
software but to have the ideas of how you create software right right and so in that teaching
um a lot of it is sort of i would call i wouldn't even call it software engineering it's low level
api deployment right within a stack and so the ai can do that though and so they you know if you've
never built a piece of software or even seen a piece of large software what do you do yeah and so
the middles and the tops realize okay i know how to build a system i've built a few systems i've seen
the inside i've understood some pieces of that system now with the i know that efficiency is
going to improve with this tool so my question then becomes how do i how do i become a better designer
and then the the incoming we're hoping to have a high paying job doing very little and just
implementing that api at a low level and and so that's what's going and then the seniors i would
argue are like they're more the system architects and they're like can i build the whole system do i
need all these other people below me or can i build the entire system with like a relatively uh skillful
ai right yeah yeah so so yeah the whole dynamics changed how do you learn about the mindset that's
exactly how the company is trying to do basically well it's again so you just have to it's i would argue
it's like an empathy question right so put your shoes as the company so what does the company want
to do and then put your shoes as the sort of senior technical lead put your shoes as the middle and if
you can just think like what what is their daily basis what are that what are their responsibilities
in the job and then you know so like you can start with the first principle which is why does a
company exist especially a public company right a public company exists to improve its shareholders
value right so and that i'm not saying that's good or bad but that's the high level and so what is the
ceo's goal well the ceo's goal is to help the shareholder it's not to make the world better it's
to make the shareholders profit better okay so then the ceo has the c-suite and then in the c-suite it's
like i would argue that the whole c-suite just cares about the shareholders but now you actually
have a product so now you go to so let's say a vp level or senior programmer and they have a product
that they're in charge of and their job is to improve win in a market right so that they're in
a different game so that from their perspective they have to ask the question so what does ai allow
me to do in terms of my product yeah and then you just start dropping okay so now i'm i'm a product
lead i have one sort of feature that i is featured in this product so what are we trying to do well
we're trying to satisfy the next level up such that they you basically as you start moving down the ladder
your whole question is how do i make the person who's in front of me look good such that they want
to keep me around right yeah and it just trickles down so it's it's just an empathy exercise to like
figure out why what what do they care about and why and then then you add ai in there and all ai
i will argue is it's just a skill supplement right so you have this agentic thing that that has certain
skills and then the question is how good or how good is it at what it does yeah so this idea of vibe
coding which you know at certain simple apps and stuff it's it seems possible but as you build a
more complex system to test it and verify it works like you just maybe someday the vibe coding will
happen but like i think the hard part from the ai's perspective is big systems aren't available
for it to learn from right right like so like uh where are you working currently um so you're on
instagram instagram so the instagram stack which is huge yeah it's not available to the llms to to
even start to understand the entire system right yeah so there's some open source like let's say apache
servers that's a pretty big open source sort of project but llms they don't sort of have this higher
level understanding that they can focus and they can say okay i can do this but to have a grasp humans
can't even grasp these systems right so to be able to say i just want the i yeah chat gpt give me the next
instagram it's not really doable yeah it might be someday like it it's but you you have to have like
the context window of the ai has to be different and and i'm sure people are pushing in that direction
but it's it's building a system is way different than just making a feature or an api or right it's
gets very complex the way i um some of the things i'm building to to use it is to look at specific
uh folder of code and then understand that uh structure yeah helping people to learn better as
you maybe as a newcomer as a new hire to learn the code base that's useful oh sometimes we're trying to
uh use some sort of agentic workflow to learn end to end about one specific let's say um class or
event that's useful but then whenever i try to ask the agent to do broader stuff that's usually
going like everywhere and taking a long time first of all and then doesn't do the good thing
so the best thing i succeeded in is um write up the task as if i'm writing for the intern step-by-step
examples that's actually working pretty well yeah yeah because you've designed it right you just
have a low level writing of each of the functions or procedures or right so you've and it's same with
writing right so when you write it and you give it like i'd like you to tell me this point and then
this point and this point and make an argument a blend of these like you've arguably written it all
you just haven't put it into fancy sentences that flow well and it's very good at that too right
yeah because the human's done all the thinking and and they're just asking the sort of i'm not
going to say low level tool but the tool to do what it does well which is you know generate from
other existing forms that are very similar also i've heard one statement saying uh for example all
the ceos now will be the last version or last wave of managers because all the employees will become
sort of managing your ai stuff you no longer need the hierarchy of managers it's a good question
like so yeah the yeah the whole thing the thing is we can't predict it right so all we have is
the writers that previously were around the science fiction what is possible right and so they were the
thinkers that sort of gave us these possible scenarios um and and it i i have no answers like it's completely
i can't predict like from my perspective i'm just trying to predict what does a student need to know
to to thrive in the modern ai development world right and i can't even answer that so it's like it's very
difficult to to imagine what like a modern day company of let's say a ceo and an ai that means we
all could be ceos right in some sense if it's so for all ceos is there enough products out there
that that could that would you know like um like if the ai is so good why does google exist
right why does it need to exist because i could make my own search engine or my own ai like so
so i don't i don't imagine that in the short term and well let's ask that like you can do a lot of
experiments right so what if um what if the ai could build huge software stacks how does what happens
why would i pay money to buy a product when i could ask the ai to build that product for me
so so then the ai company is arguably the only thing that exists not the software system company
however just because i can build it i still need to run it on some sort of hardware
right and and it just doesn't magically so like there there are layers of that service model but
i just i don't see it i just don't see it yet but that doesn't mean it's not possible i just don't
see it in the short term maybe in the future people become uh real estate investors or power investors
that's the main thing remaining everything what is really a software engineer what what are you really
doing you're just talking to a machine on how to do computation right yeah that's my entire
move things around and and do processes so it's like okay um but but to design that and figure out
how to do something with that that will always exist right so just because the ai knows about link
lists and then maybe knows about um sorting there's still what is the application i want it to be able
to do and how do i break that up i i don't know if the ai innovates in that space i have a friend he i think
it's a really good question we haven't run the experiment but imagine we could sort of pull an
llm from let's say um let's say four years ago and we know the innovations that have happened
could you ask that llm what technology will will thrive in the next three years to see could it create
what the sort of what happened i think that's a really interesting experiment right i don't know if
it like because it arguably has the corpus of our written intelligence yeah right and does it know
what the next innovation is or is that a human that comes up with oh i put if i put this and this
together which is always what happens then i can solve this problem for person zed so it's also like
um talking to my me myself maybe five years ago what uh what do you want to build it's probably
broad but uh not going anywhere because i didn't have the experience i had or the things i trained
over the past five years yeah so it's like they're they're interesting they're wonderful interesting
tools but they don't they they just they just change the world and there's a book i read um
like if we really think down to what ai is it's just prediction machines right it's it's prediction
however when you say prediction it's sort of very simple right because if i write a task and then it
predicts how to respond to that what it's doing is remarkable but it is just prediction machines
um and the availability of cheap prediction we don't we've we've really never had this before to say
how does it change what we do how does it change the world it it's never happened before right on
that note how has this changed the class dynamics i know there are questions about how uh students
learn or treat exams those aside but how does that change how basically teacher and students interact
yeah it's a good question um again we don't know right that's the hard part so i i think it's kind
silly to say you can't use it i don't agree with that at all because i think that that's just not the
right way so but then the question is how do you use it how do you use it well and and i think for most
beginners the ai is it's just blind trust which is really not the way to use it so it's like i and then
you can even tell someone it's like okay fine get it to write your essay sure i don't care but are
you going to read your essay afterwards and check and verify that what it wrote is and i think a lot
of people say yeah i will but then they don't do it and same with code like they just don't right
because i think we're just naturally lazy so so that's like to get people to look at what the ai
generates that's like step one in in correct usage right human in the loop but i don't even i think
even getting a student to do that is very very hard i think it's just like if you remember back to when
you were learning to debug there's a lot of like okay it didn't work let me try this and hope yeah
right it wasn't think about it was just okay let me just change this word i don't know why
this but i'm going to try it and hope and sometimes that worked and so try and hope is the same thing
with ai i'll try it and i hope it's right and so nothing out of it exactly so an early debugger
that's that's our natural sort of we like try and hope as opposed to think and figure out
why it might be failing and then go and sort of go deep into what line of code is the problem
um so that's one of the problems with the ai and i'll be honest like even a lot of my courses
i was shifting towards the take home and projects right i have to pull back on that because
yeah because why wouldn't you use the i know yeah so we did an experiment uh this last year and i know
for my digital system design course the llm gets about 87 percent in the course 87 out of 100
so i know i tell the students like i know it gets 87 out of 100 so then the question has to be
why why would i ask you to do this right and and it's not just about getting the answers in the back
of the textbook it's about learning how to be able to build these things and think about these things
that's the exercise it's not that it's doable because we know it's doable yeah and that's the
it's hard to communicate with a student because it's a young mind right what do they what again
sit in their shoes what what are their shoes their shoes is i need a career that's that's and there's
nothing wrong with that but from their shoes it's like how do i get to the career do i just check off
the list and it seems like that's the path i i and i it's a little scary now because i sort of have to
say it's like i don't know if we're teaching you enough to do well in the the engineering world right
i don't know if it's enough anymore i think you have to level up probably a little bit more than
the the last alumni year i don't know that again i don't know you taught me multiple classes uh maybe
the se1 technical writing is kind of sketchy with ai but the one uh the embedded system where we had
to build hardware stuff yeah use the chips would you say that it's actually better with ai because
i can now read spec maybe more precisely or faster and enable me to do manual stuff well like you said
sean i think the the value of the ai from a from a learning perspective is it being able to explain
other things to you reasonably that's hugely valuable because otherwise as a beginner who's
learning about something you know it's really nice to have a little bit of direction by the way this
does this this is why this and that is a like and and otherwise it's just you maybe your lab partner
trying to figure out what is this doing right and so there's big benefits there um the overall hardware
like embedded systems design
it's interesting because so
the the good news for embedded systems engineers and hardware engineers is the corpus of knowledge
that exists in those topics is just less than what exists for software so it's not that the llm can't
do it it just doesn't have a huge data set to sort of look at and see a lot of the possibilities
however even with arduino right there's a huge corpus and so it can do a lot very very quickly
um is it better i again i we don't it's still too early we we barely understand like i from for me when
i talk to other faculty i'm like are you playing with it like the first question you have to ask is
how does it change the job of being a professor what can you use it for otherwise we have no clue how
it's going to impact what a student is doing right yeah how has that going has professors or your
colleagues being kind of acceptative about ai or using ai yeah you would think we should we should be
the most accepting i i still think it's like it's too fast and too furious and i actually don't think
professors do a lot that ai can help with oh uh what do you mean by that well so how much how much am i
actually doing engineering how much building am i actually doing in a let's say a semester it's not
much right so so more of what i'm doing is communicating and you know uh yes it's mostly
communication and it can help in that but i still i can't get it to communicate for me
and so because a lot of being a professor is like interactions with humans that are social and
communication it's it's not that amazing for us it's really good when an administrator or
an admetricator as i call them ask me to write a report or do something i love it then because it's
like i don't care about the report you don't really care about the report either you just want to generate
okay let's get in there and just do that for me because i already hated doing that anyway whatever
you generate i'm happy with um but for a lot of the other stuff it doesn't really
um help that much and that's not completely true right there's all sorts of spaces it's useful in
but i think of what i realize is uh there's not a lot ai helps in in the teaching and learning world
for what i do in terms of uh teaching engineering courses or yeah overall for just overall right my
my day-to-day work it doesn't help a lot right right like half the time for me to use the ai and i i
might be uh it might be a form factor so for me to use it right now let's just say i need to write you
an email right and i'm like okay i could write clode clod or clode or have whatever we call them lately um
can you write an email to sean or then that takes me probably like five minutes to set up
it generates something i copy and i paste it or i can spend five minutes and just write it right
so the number of times because it's not integrated yet into my my my uis it's more painful and so i have
to what like all the work i do i always ask the question if i'm going to do this multiple times how
much efficiency can i improve by let's say automating it or writing python scripts or so i
always ask that question and there's just not a lot of automation in my day-to-day work so the ai
doesn't help no i think that speaks to how i use it at work people are basically my co-workers right
people who build internal tools they try to make it so seamlessly you can use um through your workflows
but that's designed for that but outside of work i ask a chat gpt about my toilet is broken look at
this picture what should i buy but i think you would ask youtube right yeah yeah exactly right
previously youtube now or google search now gpt but that's about it it doesn't really plug into my
like daily live workflows uh it might get and it's getting close to like say if you're going on a trip
i think it it's starting to get a good at planning could you i'm going to leave on this day i want
to leave on this day could you tell me the flights i'm going to need how i'm going to get to like it's
getting closer to being that what which is i think we all want is a nice useful personal assistant
if you had a personal assistant who could do all that and do it well that gets kind of exciting right
because i can offload a lot of that thought to something else but it's just not there yet right and
then i have to always check it like do i trust this thing and so a personal assistant you would
trust right but the ai you're like okay does this flight actually exist did you book it am i actually
going to get on the flight when i need to like yeah and it it will get there i think it will get there
that's for sure what what would be the the um the most optimistic um what's your optimism about ai
in the future maybe as a last question on the ai topic uh that's a good question optimism on ai
it's it's funny because i just look at it as another tool
and and so it's like we could sort of frame it as what happens when the hammer got invented right like
so i got a new tool and then how does it change my i guess it's always the question like will it make
it so i have more leisure right that's pretty well like the optimism will i have more leisure and still
be satisfied with what i do on a daily basis that's the optimist goal right so i make enough to live
support the family and i get more time to play video game x right yes that's the win-win
games cool yeah switch topic to uh what you have been doing i've been loosely following your linkedin
uh linkedin posts um so switching topic to that what's msu the certificate i think probably hanging
right behind you yeah um so there is a keynote um it it's so it stands for make up msu it looks like
michigan state university uh michelle king did a keynote at the serious play conference i was just
at and she was giving these out and i just thought it was funny um because i think that's a lot of what
we do so i was like i got a certificate an msu certificate my wife asked the same thing she's
like congratulations i'm like i don't know if it's congratulations it's just funny um and yeah so
they're msu so make shit up oh yeah i think maybe maybe two years since two years ago i started seeing
your posts then uh you had this website uh your website but a page called let's play so um yeah i
looked into it for a bit and i just reading the quotes you said board games would allow educators
to experience role reversal and reminds themselves uh what it's like to be a beginner and learner again
and then when i read through the pdfs you had maybe last year i saw a few things uh for example
learning to be competitive learning about patterns predictions learning unwritten rules that part is
funny and then uh importance of scaffolding uh to me it's like a knowledge map yeah um so reading all
this makes sense and of course if i were to teach i would put myself in that perspective uh think about
these um but my question to you is uh what's the actual pattern you maybe observe through your years
at university or other professors uh maybe doing differently than this ideal behavior of teaching
so again the hard part about being a teacher and it doesn't matter what you're teaching that's why i
like games is because it allows you to teach something to someone else so you're actually practicing
but it's very like that a game is a small system that has a very like the goal is to win i can tell
you what the goal is and then i can teach you the rules and then i can observe if you can execute the
rules and and play the game and maybe not win because that's strategy but so it's a real nice subsystem
um but the problem in most spaces of teaching is you have two people you have the expert and you have the
learner and the expert doesn't see the world the same way the learner does and so the hard part in
all of that is how do i i can't transfer that knowledge right so so all i can do is offer you
here is roughly how the system works now go try it because if you just listen to me describe the game
and never play it you haven't learned how to play the game blah blah blah so like but the expert can't
see the world like the learner does so what's nice about playing games and being taught new games is
you actually get to remind yourself as an expert what it's like to be the learner again that's that
role reversal it's like oh yeah i forgot i forgot like i forget all the time right i'll use vocabulary and
i'll be like oh wait does anybody know what i'm talking about when i use that word right because
in my field we'll use that word and if i'm talking with someone else who knows about it we don't have
to we just know it but if it's a beginner coming in they'll listen to that word they'll be like i
don't know what that word means and that word is literally a paragraph right that paragraph you know
and we can think of all sort of like design patterns so i could say yeah you just look at the design
patterns for software engineering and then you could find something for linked lists and you you
can just solve this and it's like well if they don't know what the word design pattern is already
we're at a mismatch they're just listening to gibberish um so yeah you sort of give us this same lesson
maybe in a different flavor at um i don't remember the class name maybe it's just the other half of the
embedded system where you ask us to present uh get a device take it apart and explain what's that to
other people and the audience may or may not know what the thing is yeah i think that do you think
that's just more speaking to have you have having uh empathy or mindset empathy yeah is key and you
know all communication the starting point is who are you communicating to right that's always the
starting point yeah and if you can't start there and maybe it's not empathy it's like just imagine
what it's like in their shoes and then that i think the other big thing when we're talking about
presentations and communication is you can't really transfer a lot it we always hope that everything's
heard but the reality is very very little is hurt right you might remember three things you might at a
presentation if you even pay attention right so if i can convince you to at least pay attention i might
be able to transfer one piece of information that i would like to to you i might yeah right this one
specific thing um i attribute the benefit back to you and uh can i tell you a story about this sure
when i first graduate i went to the company called shenari electric and six months in um i'm in the
position to teach a class and what we call class is basically uh 20 or 30 people and they are 20 or
30 years older than me like gray hairs all that the thing i'm teaching is hey this is a new software
system someone build i'm teaching you how to use it so you can sell to your partners but basically
they are the partners uh sell to their customers okay and then i had to really pick the specific
thing i want them to remember because i know the 40 minutes will just be gone and nobody will remember
anything then also thinking their shoes what's their daily struggle they probably don't care about
this like 25 year old guy teaching saying anything they try to make it fun make memory points try to
give them kind of something they'll go back to from the class like almost doing all tricks trying to
deliver the message and do it a couple times uh in a year so that was kind of uh resonating with you
what you said yeah yeah communication it's and i'll be honest those those presentations probably have a
big impact on your career right yeah yeah to me uh to me or so than what you technically developed
which is sad but they care more because they're like oh sean's a sean can speak sean can convey
right sean can convince as opposed to we know sean can build that's why we hired him and there are many
other people who can build yeah yeah there are fairly a few uh who speaks well who can communicate
yeah yeah yeah and the other thing uh from that class you uh this is not the same topic but just
remember you were saying the best way to get hired is to through relationship that's uh still true
but the the the the thing about me is i never know anyone big enough to introduce me and never become
big enough to help others so it'll happen in the middle you're still you're still early in your
career yeah and the reality is your network slowly expands i've yeah it's funny because i hit in lots
of spaces but i don't know fancy people either but i don't really want to so because they have different
expectations so again you're employed you seem to be enjoying what you're doing you're doing well you
don't need to know the big ups what are they gonna what what are you gonna get to do that you don't
get to do now yeah that's true you were asking maybe not to me directly but to the class why do you
need phd and i think you and i maybe tried about why do i want to uh take two majors and that's
sits with me forever now i basically talk to anyone who attempt a phd why do you want to do it if you
want a job don't ever do it it's a waste of your time your life five years yeah yeah so that's
one of the things i kind of took away from the class maybe uh for good uh very good lesson well
as an engineer computer scientist or whatever it's like um yeah we somehow think that more letters
after your name somehow makes you better and no yeah it might like if you want to be a professor yes
you have to have the phd to get that job so that that was that would be the only argument of why
you would do it yeah right exactly and then everything else it's sort of like a university
scam it's monopoly money i probably said to you like no one cares they honestly like a company what
do they care about they care if you can build what they need you to build right they don't care that
you're an electrical engineer or a computer scientist yeah those signals however are like
a good that that's why they they sort of say they want it because it's a signal that says you've
probably hit all the little pieces i need for you to build what i need and it's easy right if if you
have a computer science degree from miami university that signals there so i know that someone has said
yes sean showed up to class he did his assignments right that's the signal but after that it doesn't
matter like it's can you build the stuff that we need built yeah can you add value to the company
to the company it's uh it's a very effective filtering system yeah you wouldn't care who you
are they just care about you can do the thing exactly you want it and it's easy it's hard to hire people
like it takes a lot of time and it costs a lot of money so these signals are just they make the
system more efficient right if you're an hr manager and you know nothing about what a software engineer
is and you've got like probably i i don't even know i'm guessing thousands of resumes you need these
quick filters just to even say okay what what subset should i look at the other thing i did for my resume
is i use the english name as opposed to hard to pronounce uh my uh legal chinese name yeah sean is
much easier to get through um for that for that matter yeah your name yeah it's funny no yeah i go
by fan the entire time yeah and then when i started submitting my resume i realized oh sean is easier
for people to communicate well there's probably a bias too right there is a bit of bias and i just
don't need to remind them hey i need a h1b visa for my job that's that's for later i won't convince
you i can do this then yeah worry about that yeah let me go back to one question about um the let's
play topic um so reading through that uh maybe for the learners from the learner's perspective uh what
do you think that stopped people um from being a good learner as they as they grow i thought about
maybe their priority changed or maybe my long-term memory is full i just don't have enough memory to uh
disk space to put in or just the sort of a curiosity regression as i get grow or get older well learning's
hard right it's just hard there's there's no like we don't know how it's just hard some people love
learning and they're the ones that don't find it as hard as others because they they really enjoy
just learning right but in general for everybody like you just there's certain ideas out there you
just can't walk in and no matter how well it's explained or how nice the youtube video is you need
to like grapple with let's say the algorithm of solution or the like you need to grab so i'm doing um
um i'm really fascinated right now with bayesian statistics what's raising so there's uh so you
and probably when you did statistics it's more frequentist which is uh it's still probability
it's all on probability but the do you remember bay's rule i i don't okay um so i always i think so
a robot runs the slam algorithm which is location right and figuring out what my world looks like
so where am i and what does my world look like and so if i take a measurement of that there's a wall
there and i see there's a wall there that's my sensor it says ah there's a wall there well how much do i
trust that there's a wall there okay let me take another measurement ah it's still saying there's a wall
there so the the probability that that's a wall moves up right so that slam is based off of a
bayesian i i have repeated and it's kind of i would argue how humans exist right we have a model of how
the world works we do something and then the model stays the same so we reinforce that model so that's
like a bayesian versus a frequentist which would say um if i had a full sample of all possible sensor
looks at that wall i know with the probability of 99 that it is a wall so it's just a different way
of of sort of using the math of probabilities yeah so and and it's funny because i can't really explain
bayesian statistics because i don't understand it well enough to really get it but it's it's
it's just for whatever reason i think it's super interesting and that's what i'm learning
but it's hard to learn right it's hard for me to learn that because i don't want to do the sample
problem at the end of every chapter i don't i'm like okay i get it and then later on i'm like oh i
didn't do that so do i really understand that or was i just thinking i understood it right yeah one
regression i had observed on myself maybe two one is um i i never told you about this but i love the
singing or performing and then i used to be able to memorize the lyrics without like uh too much
efforts i just somehow memorize all those yeah now i'm struggling learning a song learning anything a
song in that matter and coming back to games i still play the two games i always play minecraft
diablo uh diablo 4 yeah but then i don't i no longer can learn new games i kind of get sleepy when i
try to learn about new games so that's the maybe regression motivation right you're not motivated
yeah and then number two you're not practicing as like you used to yeah that's the reality right
like our memories don't get worse it's we don't practice memorizing stuff if you don't practice it
so you probably were listening lots of different music and then memorizing them not even noticing you
were right right now you don't listen to different music you probably listen to the same
what i like when i was whatever and so you're not in that exercise of practicing on memorization
and then for the game one it's like you know yeah actually i just got into minecraft it's pretty cool
you just got into my son it's a lot of fun um however i'm like yeah i've went we just went to the
nether is it the nether netherland yeah and i was looking at how to go to the ender dragon and i'm
like but there's not it's really just a sandbox otherwise right and it's like i keep on asking
i was like well what do you want to do do you want to go to the dragon he went to the nether he's really
excited and he dies and he loses all his diamond stuff i'm like yeah next time you go let's learn
about it instead of just rush in there with all our good stuff um so but it's a sandbox it's like do you
want to build a farm that like generates the food and then do you want to build the thing that protects
you from the mobs it's a really nice sandbox i i i think it's remarkable um diablo not i played like
the original diablo for me i've gotten into hell divers hell divers 2 i've realized what i i like
first person shooters but i don't like playing first person shooters against other people i do like
playing against an ai i really enjoy a bunch of us getting together and playing against an ai
so yeah i was similar to you not finding any new games but then i i had this moment i was like
oh this is a lot of fun playing with your friends and shooting yeah artificial intelligence right that
i think someone will go back to the childhood i didn't enjoy going over too many games but i do
enjoy when a crowd of friends maybe shooting at each other or doing something together and that's
the thing i no longer have couch going couch co-op is dead what's that what stood that couch co-op where
you're all on the same couch playing against each other yeah yeah yeah it's sort of it's just now it's
all because of the internet it's play at my couch with you at your couch and it's just a little bit
different but pve player versus enemy i i've i've realized i don't need pvp ever again like fortnight
it's just i don't want to be destroyed by a 13 year old and they will always meet me because they have
the time and i do not so it's like but me with my friends playing against an ai and we can set the ai
to whatever level we're at i think it's wonderful i really enjoyed it yeah minecrafted to me i i
get to the game i think maybe the second year or third year at miami to me that's fascinating because
daytime i'm learning tools to build stuff maybe that was the same time with your class and uh when
i go home or have time to play it's the same mindset that i build small tools then build bigger
little civilization right yeah you're trying to set up your your little farm or whatever exactly and then
there are certain plugins allow you to build bigger machines you still have to craft the components
and uh do all the um all the switches the redstone the redstone switches those are amazing yeah we're
just starting to get into the redstone and i've seen full like alu's built with redstone and i can
see how you would do it um because it has the automatic switching component which as soon as you can
build a transistor you can arguably build anything right it just takes time to get all the redstone and
craft it and exactly yeah i think years ago people built a monitor a computer screen do certain things
the whole screens flip for a while and then show up to the right number it's the same thing we're
doing at school uh yeah yeah no it's really cool yeah i appreciate it way more than like i yeah i think
it's a lot of fun too and one last thing i don't know if you ever intended to teach but the non-apologetic
attitude on questioning why uh goes into class as you're questioning how do you come up to the the
final answer sometimes about why do you need phd i took that somehow can use it now and i don't feel
sorry about questioning why trying to push things so i don't know if that's intended but that's the one
of the things i learned but so funny like i will argue university is is not about the technical it's not
about the engineering what it really is is an opportunity for you like if you think about how
all humans exist we just exist right and and we're not that complex we're relatively simple and it's
hard for us to deal with but the world is so complex and so what sort of formal education gives you is like
little pieces of trying to understand the greater world little little small pieces um and that's
that's what it is right why why does this happen this way why and and so and then the other thing
university allows you to do is it's the first sort of moment you realize that you get to write your own
story in the world right it's your it's like yeah my parents told me to go here yeah my family said i
should go to this school and and this is what would likely happen but it's the first moment where
it's like okay there's this separation where it's like i get to write what i will do in the world
whatever that is good or bad this is my choice and i get to define it um and and in those two
opportunities i think you have to ask why am i doing this why is this institution doing this why
you know so they're just if you if you don't ask if you're not curious then you just do and there's
nothing wrong with that i actually don't think there's anything wrong with that but i think a lot
of us have questions it's like yeah does this make sense is you know i get why it's the way it is like
we wear ties because the victorians didn't like buttons um okay that seems insane but that's why ties
exist and it's like these why questions are always good because everything's sort of expected you're
expected to do this so there's nothing wrong with asking why am i expect to do this and is it good
for my community is it good for my friends and family my hypothesis is a lot of people who went to
university or have the driven mindset to do good on grades they are probably submissive or in some way
really agree agreeable to the parents or the previous teacher on what they should do so is there
more or less a golden pass defined so just to do the thing that's one thing the other one is um coming
from the kind of asian background everything about is to agree to the the elder or the teacher right
it's it's yeah yeah follow the past and no questions so for me it's particularly hard or maybe
mind opening when you were questioning why like on something seems obvious to people but then uh
that that was good yeah again asking questions is good again you know our families and our friends
there's certain cultures within them that we probably should respect right
so but you'd have to ask why is is it you know and that's a little proposition right it doesn't make
sense for me to do what my parents tell me all the time and that's you know you got to make your it's
a cost benefit yeah you got an analysis and it's like and it might be and it might not be it just
depends on each person so you just got to ask those questions yeah um and and it's complex right so we're
on we're we sit on the shoulders of people that have defined things for ages right and then we have these
new technologies that are changing so it's like it's so complex and if anybody anybody says they
know what they're doing it's just an absolute they might not think they know what they're doing and i
think our brains have to tell us that yeah you're you're doing good don't worry you're fine but it's
so complex that it's just insane like complexity is really that's probably what sustainability and
complexity are probably the two words that we should just have in our lexicon is this sustainable
is the is the stock market going up infinitely sustainable probably not right um and is it
complex it's super complex don't think you can understand the market it's so complex and sure
we've tried to make laws but it's so complex the universe is complex and but yet from our perspective
it's like oh yeah gravity exists that's the universe right i know how it works yeah the sort of
controlling environments yeah and we have to right otherwise we'd be just a gibbering mess because it's
so complex so we have to be able to our brains have to say we're good and we kind of understand what's
going on thanks for the time uh talking with me through different things different topics just in
case people want to learn about uh let's play learning about your work where should they go dr
peter jameson.com i think i i bought that uh that domain name so that should exist for a while you
know i exist on the internet i guess search for peter jameson google yeah that's where all the papers
are and yeah but that dr peter jameson.com has like everything i usually link up there