Noel Minchow:
Hello, and welcome to PodRocket. I'm Noel, and joining me today is Steven Tey. Steven is a senior developer advocate at Vercel. He's a founder of Dub and One Word Domain. Probably a bunch of other side projects he can tell me a little bit more about here but how's it going, Steven?

Steven Tey:
It's going pretty well. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Noel Minchow:
Of course. Yeah, I'm excited to chat. Yeah, I guess in your words, give us a little bit of your background intro and then how you found yourself at Vercel and what you do there.

Steven Tey:
My name is Steven. I am a, as you say, a senior developer advocate here at Vercel. Before Vercel, I was actually, I studied data science and business in college, starting from a data science background. But then I realized I really wanted to be able to build something that can be shipped to the end user. So I pivoted into learning HTML, CSS, and JavaScript, and that's how I actually built my first site project, One Word Domains. It's a collection of one word domain names that are available for people to register. And through that I learned how to use stuff like jQuery, just Vanilla CSS, and I, through that process, I also found out about Vercel, got in touch with our CEO Guillermo. I was trying to pitch him a collaboration with more domains and we eventually met in person, and that's how sort of got to know each other.
And after college, I really wanted to start my own company, so I actually raised a small little angel round, but right before I signed the SAFE note, Guillermo was like, "Why don't you join Vercel instead?" You could accelerate your career here, learn more about B2B SaaS, about open source, about hiring, managing people. So I was like, why not? Vercel is an amazing company. I love the product, so I said yes to that and that's how I ended up here. That was about a year and a half ago now. And since then I've been building a ton of really cool stuff, which we can dive into later here at Vercel.

Noel Minchow:
Yeah, we actually had Guillermo on, I don't remember exactly how long ago it was, but he told us a bunch about Vercel at the time, so we'll be sure to link to that in the show notes if listeners want to go catch up and get his perspective.

Steven Tey:
Nice.

Noel Minchow:
But yeah, tell us what a dev advocate at Vercel is. Did you have a pretty good handle on what that was going to be when you were coming in or have you guys been figuring it out as you go? What does that look like?

Steven Tey:
Yeah, that's a great question. When I first joined, I was hellbent on doing product management. I was like, "Oh, I want to do product." But then eventually I got to learn more about the dev advocate role and fell in love with it because it really aligns with my personal interests of being a founder in the future. The way I pitch this role, dev advocate, is it's a combination of product, customer success, content creation, and engineering. So our role is basically building really cool start kits and templates to help users familiarize themselves with our product, our platform, and at the same time, help inform the product team on what users are looking for, features that we should be prioritizing.
And also being the front-facing person on social media, on Twitter, get up discussions, whenever people have feedback or complaints about Vercel, we're the first line of defense in a way, alongside our customer success team, obviously. And in terms of engineering, you got to understand the product really well to build this started, so that's why it's a combination of all these. And I do sometimes help with some sales calls too, which is why I love this role, it's very well rounded and it really prepares me for whatever, whenever I'm ready to start my company in the future.

Noel Minchow:
Yeah, it's fun though. It keeps the days interesting. Yeah, let's dig in a little bit. Tell us about the starter kits you've mentioned a couple times. What are those, how do they work? How do they get devs rolling with Vercel?

Steven Tey:
So when I first joined Vercel, I was actually brought on to build this starter kit called the Platform Starter Kit. And that's a template that people can refer to or clone to build multi-tenant applications. And what that means is if you're building a blogging platform, a newsletter subscription platform, or a website builder, or even a status page builder, all of these use cases where you offer custom domains to your users as a premium plan, that's something that we enable you to build really easily without having to worry about SSL certificate generation, we give you unlimited custom domains for free, which is unheard of. I don't think any other platform does that. And we also help you scale if you have millions of users that have themselves, tens of millions of users, you don't have to worry about bandwidth, about scaling your EC2 clusters or Kubernetes or whatever. We basically take care of all that right out the box for you.
So that was the first started kit that I built, launched it in January of 2022, I think. It was a while ago, so about a year ago now. And it's helped a lot of customers like Super.so which is a Notion website builder. They currently have 9,000 custom domains and hundreds of millions of page views. Hashnode has 25,000 custom domains. All of them are built on top of this framework that I created here at Vercel, which is really cool to see the impact. And other smaller starter kits would include MongoDB Starter Kit, which is a way for people to use MongoDB in Vercel. I also built a very simple Hacker News Slack bot, which is an open source template that people can use to send Slack messages to a channel when their company name is mentioned on Hacker News. It's a great way for us to understand, we actually dog food that internally. It's a great way for us to understand what people are thinking about Vercel and Next.js and Svelte.

Noel Minchow:
Nice. Yeah, so I'm curious or I haven't really explored these at all, so I'm figuring this out as I go. So what is the actual interface for how these starter kits work? You said they were like repos, are they strictly code that people are cloning and then those know how to interact with Vercel's platform APIs to do things? Or is there stuff that's happening on the backend as well when someone uses one, or how do they work?

Steven Tey:
Yeah, so majority of these templates are full stack repos that you can easily clone and deploy it to Vercel. You might need to fill in a few environment variables if it integrates with services like, I don't know, PlanetScale railway or even LogRocket, you need to add those API TC keys for that to work. But generally we want to give a very low friction way for new developers that don't know about Vercel to be able to build really cool applications and discover the full potential of the Vercel platform. So yeah, this is our gateway drug, so to speak, to Vercel and Next.js.

Noel Minchow:
In writing these starter kits, have you ever found that there were features that were lacking in Vercel where you went, "Oh man, it sure would be cool if the platform could do X, Y, Z, that would make this template way easier." And if so, what do you guys do when you run into those?

Steven Tey:
That comes up all the time. And I think that's just why I love building these starter kits because it really puts me in the shoe of the end user, in our case, users and developers and the pain points that they're facing when using our platform. So one example is when I was building the Platform Starter Kit, our users really needed a way to filter and search for a certain custom domain that's connected to their project in Vercel, we didn't have that feature before, and when users super go up to 9,000 custom domains, it makes it really hard for them to figure out which domains are configured correctly and which ones are not. So that brought about a feature request that we shipped sometime in the middle of last year, and we are constantly improving that with more and more discoveries that come up when I'm building these starter kits, which is something that I really like doing.

Noel Minchow:
Are there any cool features in particular that you find most, I don't know, devs coming in to use them new features on the Vercel platform? I'm thinking of the, I don't know, edge functions like the MongoDB Starter Kit you mentioned. Are most people that are using those coming in via the starter kit or is it quite a mix?

Steven Tey:
It's a healthy mix of people that discover it organically on Google when they're looking for a template, or if it's an enterprise user that we do outbound sales or inbound sales. It's a healthy mix of both, but I think that these features that we roll out, like for example, we recently acquired Splitbee which is, it's like a Google Analytics alternative that's privacy friendly, and we integrated our product into our platform, we call it Vercel Analytics.
And that's a great way for people that want to have a privacy friendly, lightweight version of Google Analytics set up for their project to be able to use Vercel and have that built directly into the platform. And there are a plethora of other features as well preview comments, which is basically a great way for people to collaborate on a project because when you push your changes to a new branch, we automatically create a live preview URL of that project that you can share with your team and they can leave comments on specific parts of the page, which is something that is, it's great for our team collaboration. So there are a lot of these features, I can go on and on.

Noel Minchow:
Nice. I guess I'm going to get in the weeds slightly here and then I'll pull us back. So you're talking about these preview branches where you have the whole environment set up for each branch. We're also talking about backend services that are being set up in Vercel. We've got the MongoDB starter and stuff. Is there a fresh database being created when one of those templates is scanned and/or used to set up a new branch and pushed as well?

Steven Tey:
Yeah, so the way we do that is we build out integrations with MongoDB, with Planet Scale, with Heroku, AWS, whatever. And that basically when you add that integration, we spin up a MongoDB cluster for you on the MongoDB data platform and we automatically seed the connection string that's generated into your result project. So it makes it very seamless for the user to basically deploy a project that already has a database configured without having to manually set up all these connection strings. All they need to do is click deploy, make a Vercel account, make a MongoDB account, and they're all set. They have a live production, a URL that they can already use. So that's our angle to be able to let people experience the magic of that's Vercel really easily and onboard users that way.

Noel Minchow:
I'm particularly curious more technically about the multi-tenant app, I think the Platforms Starter Kit, is that correct?

Steven Tey:
Mm-hmm.

Noel Minchow:
Yeah, so how does that work? I feel like that's a novel space. I don't think I've seen many other, these hosting software companies able to do this multi-tenant true end-to-end tool chain set up. How does that all function?

Steven Tey:
Yeah, that's a great question. I think it's meta if you think about it because we're a hosting company, we're a platform that allows other platforms to be successful on top of us. And the way it works is it's actually quite simple. Partially, it's thanks to all the infrastructure that we've already built at Vercel, but the way platform started kit functions is you use an Edge Middleware, which we released about a year ago as well, to perform a rewrite because in an Edge Middleware you can basically get the origin of the request, which is the host name. So for example, if steventey.com is using one of the platforms, you will get steventey.com and you make a rewrite to a dynamic route, which is a feature inside Next.js that allows you to statically generate a bunch of pages, a bunch of content pages.
So within that dynamic route, I'll have that host name that I got from the middleware, and I basically just pull whatever data that's in our database for that host name and just render the HTML on the service side and send it to client side. So all the pages that are generated are static, but also users can easily edit that and the performance is top notch performance without having to worry about setting up nginx proxies to do that rewrite or having to issue SSL certificates manually and stuff like that. So we make it really easy for folks to be able to build and offer custom domains in their products.

Noel Minchow:
Yeah, nice. Are there any tricky features in the page generation step that are gotchas that people are into sometimes that you guys either handle or advise people on how to handle them on their end?

Steven Tey:
So we do have this feature called on demand re-validation of the static pages. It's basically a way for you to basically these pages are cached, whenever there's a request to that page, it's cached in the edge network, in Vercel's edge network. But then if a user makes an edit to that page, we basically call a revalidate API endpoint to basically regenerate that page in the background and the next request will get the updated version. So that's one cool feature because it's basically propagated across all 20 plus regions that Vercel has across the world, which means that your data within 300 milliseconds will be propagated and updated.
So if you make a change in New York, you get that update instantly in Singapore, which is something that a lot of our customers love. And another thing is it also uses the Vercel Domains API, which is endpoints that we created for users to be able to add their users' custom domains, add, update, and remove it. And that's something that we basically simplified whole process, all you need to do is have a component in your app that allows people to add and hit that endpoint and that's it. You don't have to worry about aliasing, you don't have to worry about generating all these certificates. Every time you push a new production deploy, all the domains that you're configured are realiased to that latest deployment. So it all happens under the hood. You don't have to think about or manage any of these.

Noel Minchow:
Nice. Are there any other, I don't know, features or functionalities in that slice, in that domain management slice that you guys have considered that might be cool, particularly for people trying to build platforms that would be helpful to productize a little bit, make it easier for some people to have to set up all this infrastructure themselves and maybe integrate with an API and they could just call something that's entirely in Vercels domain and make it work?

Steven Tey:
Yeah, so one interesting thing that comes to mind would be wildcard subdomains and imagine your substack and you are offering your users the ability to do steven.substack.com. And the way Vercel does it is all you need to do is add a wildcard. So it's a *.substack.com or whatever your domain is. And once you add that to your Vercel project, you can just start offering subdomains ease, out of the box. You don't even need to hit any domains endpoints, you don't need to add all these subdomains. All of these pages using the Platform Starter Kit, they're all generated on demand using ISR, like you mentioned earlier. So to clarify, ISR is short for incremental static regeneration. It basically is a way for you to regenerate a certain amount of a static pages. So imagine you have /product/productID and you want to generate the top 100, and in total you have tens of thousands of these product ID.
So it doesn't make sense to generate all of them at build time because it's going to take forever. So you just need to basically regenerate the top 100, and all of the remaining ones will be generated on the fly. So when a user makes a request to a page that's not generated, we generate that in the background and all subsequent requests globally will be cached. So that, going back to the idea of wildcard subdomains, it uses the same concept. So if a new user joins substack and they're like, I want to create, I don't know, a new website, a new page that's called kate.substack.com, the page will, the first request to that page will basically check against your database to see if that Kate subdomain exists. And if it does, it generates that page and it caches it. So it's all happening on demand and which means that you don't need to even add or remove subdomains. You just do a simple crud, you do use simple crud to your database and that's it.

Noel Minchow:
Yeah. Nice. That's pretty cool. I guess this is probably a bit of an aside and not directly domain related, but in that ISR process, how does one delineate between what are the first 100 things that should be being pre-generated versus this is some deep obscure product page or something?

Steven Tey:
Yeah, it's really up to you. Some people do based on page views, based on the number of requests. We just generate the ones that are most frequently requested and the ones that are not really as requested as often, we just generate it on the fly. So that's usually the heuristic. Yeah, it's really up to the developer themselves.

Noel Minchow:
Got it, so is it specified somewhere like programmatically then?

Steven Tey:
Correct. So we have a function called Get Static Paths. So it's basically a function inside your Next.js dynamic route that allows you to delineate which paths that you want to be pregenerated and which ones you want to generate on the fly.

Noel Minchow:
Yeah, I guess I feel like we've been talking a lot about this Platform Starter Kit. Are there any other starter kits? I know you mentioned the MongoDB one. Are there any other ones that are the most commonly used that people might want to reach for?

Steven Tey:
Yeah, I think that's a great segue into talking about the templates marketplace, which is what I actually, it's a project I built here at Vercel too. It's basically a marketplace of all these different startup kits that I mentioned earlier, ranging from use cases like e-commerce, blogs, to even stuff like AI, which is really hot right now, Web3 and all these different fields. And all of them basically have startup kits that touch on different use cases, use different frameworks as well, like Next.js, Svelte, Astro, you can check this out at Vercel.com/templates if you're interested.
But basically, this is a great way, we recently released this Image Gallery Starter Kit, which is a very performance and beautiful Instagram clone in a way. It basically allows you to build a gallery of images that it's accessibility focused, it performs really well, and it has keyboard support, all these different small details that a lot of developers, it might take them a ton of time to build it from scratch. We just build it out and open source it for people to refer to, for them to copy and clone. And it's really cool because these actually have real world impact. People are using this to build their wedding photo shoot gallery, and it's like, really warms our heart to see that.
Folks on Splash are actually looking into the starter kits that we've built, so we recently built an AI alt text generator for images. So imagine you have this image gallery of a hundred images and you don't want to go in there and manually write alt text for each one of them. You can use our starter kit, the AI Alt Text Generator Starter Kit to programmatically create this alt text for you. And it was built by my colleague Hassan, he's amazing. And the starter kit was actually used and inspired on Splash, which is a famous photo sharing platform to integrate it into their own product. So it's really cool to see all this real world impact that we're creating with all this value that we're putting out in this marketplace.

Noel Minchow:
Can functionality of these starter kits be combined in any way? Because it feels like this auto image tagging would be cool with some of the other ones you mentioned. How does that work? How do you combine these two potentially disparate things?

Steven Tey:
Yeah, so there's no way to programmatically combine them. They're all, they allow you to deploy them basically separately into different projects. But what you can do is instead of cloning and deploying, you can just refer to the repository and just try to pick the parts of the code that will work for your use case, and that's what we've seen a lot of people do. And yeah, I've gotten feedback about the Platform Starter Kit and how customers basically rewrite the entire code base based on the way I've structured the Platform Starter Kit to allow them to be able to offer custom subdomains. And it's something that, yeah it really inspires me because I can see the impact that my work is having on people and companies all across the world.

Noel Minchow:
Yeah, no, I'm sure that is super satisfying, and I feel like it probably is often the case that templates become examples more so than templates a lot of the time, but we just, you don't know about it when someone's going in and pulling the pieces out unless you're manually reconciling and figuring out if the code matches exactly. Hey, that's super cool to hear. Or is there been any projects that you've worked on in particular that you've either built a template out of or it was inspired by a template you were working on that you have found particularly exciting?

Steven Tey:
Yeah, this is another great segue into Dub, which is a side project that I actually launched that is inspired by the platform startup kit. So it all came from this conversation I had with my manager Lee, Lee Robinson. We were talking about if there's a great way for us to build a Bitly clone that has much better features and is cheaper to use. And that inspired me to build Dub because we really needed certain features that Bitly didn't have. I can go into that in a second. But yeah, so Dub is basically an open source Bitly alternative. It's basically a link management tool for people to create short links, and you can even do that on your own custom domain. So we have seen folks basically create all these different shortenings for the companies really easily, and it uses edge functions, which is also Vercel product to perform redirects at the edge.
And we can also talk a bit about edge. So what edge means it's not just a fancy term, it's basically a way of saying that these functions are running at a close proximity to the user. So imagine one of your users in Malaysia, where I'm originally from, one of them requests a link or triggers an API call to your application. What edge functions allow you to do is instead of having to make a round trip from Malaysia to like US East, Virginia, they can just hit one of the edge nodes that Vercel has in Singapore, and that basically reduces the latency of a function call. So yeah, edge functions have been used over a billion times since we launched. There have been over a billion invocations, which is massive. We've seen a lot of adoption in our enterprise customers.
But going back to the idea of Dub, it basically allows people to perform all this redirects at the edge. And the custom domains API that I was talking about earlier also allowed me to basically offer custom domains for free, which is, I don't think any of these link combination tools actually do. Bitly, you have to pay at least $29 a month to use a custom domain. So with Dub, I was able to just offer this, and since I launched about four months ago now, there's been over 400 custom domain from 400 pretty cool companies that have connected their custom domain to Dub. So yeah, that's one of the projects, one of the bigger ones that have came out of a startup kit that I built.

Noel Minchow:
Nice. Are there any other particular features of Dub that people might not get with other URL shorteners that they're looking for? Or is domains the big one?

Steven Tey:
Yeah. One of the main features that actually inspired me to build this was a feature that we really needed at Vercel, which is a way to do OG image proxying. And what that means is imagine you share a short link on Twitter and that link redirects to a third-party site that has a pretty terrible OG image, or doesn't even have an OG image at all. What Dub allows you to do is you can proxy your own OG image on top of that third-party link. Think of it as Rickrolling, but for good, that's how people talk, that's how I pitch usually. It's like you can basically Rickroll people, but in a good way because you're putting a nicer OG image and your own OG tags on top of that short link. And that's something that we use often whenever we share a link on Twitter, on LinkedIn, it works across all these different social media platforms. And yeah, that's one of the big ones.

Noel Minchow:
Yeah, I think for people that aren't familiar, OG image or I guess the OG tags are the tags commonly used in unfurling links, that make the links have stuff show up when you paste them in Slack. So there's an image in text and stuff. It's a subset of tags, they can control the automatic embedding behavior.

Steven Tey:
Exactly, and that's the really cool thing about that is we also launched at Vercel, this OG, we call it Vercel OG. It's a way for you to programmatically create OG images at the edge, and it's basically a framework that allows you to create all these GitHub links that you share on Twitter. You'll see that there's the GitHub pause rename, the star count, the fork counts, number count forks, and those are generated basically on demand, and it's updated every time the platform makes a request to that endpoint. So we basically created this open source library that allows you to do that super easily using React.
You can just write up a React component, and that will become a dynamically rendered OG image. And that's something that has allowed us to achieve a lot of success on social media. For example, Next.js conference, that's a conference that we run annually that has, over last year we had over 100,000 participants who all, they basically attended that conference online. And the way we added some virality to the launch was we allowed people to register tickets and have custom OG images that have their name, their picture, and the place they are in line. So people would be so excited, and they would share that on social media and that's how it got that traction initially. So that's a really powerful feature if you want to focus on social media.

Noel Minchow:
Nice. Yeah, it sounds super handy to have that out of the box. A couple of times I've had to go in and write custom logic on these super frontend heavy non-react, or fully reactive apps that don't have any real prerendering or anything. It's like, okay, we've got to hand and now we have to handle unfurling, so short circuit all these requests and just like, oh, get data from the database and return these images and stuff. So being able to write that in a React component that then is prerendered and can be returned for those requests does sound super, super handy. Yeah, so listeners should check that one out if they found themselves walking that path before. Yeah, nice. Are there any times in particular, I guess we've been talking about starter kits a lot, but when you're starting up a new project on Vercel, should one always be browsing the starter kit library first? Or are there distinct times when it's like, nah, you should probably just set up your own repo, follow an example maybe?

Steven Tey:
I think there's a distinction between starter kits and boilerplates. So starter kits or these templates that I built sometimes are a little bit more complex and have a lot of built-in features that you might not want if you're starting a new project. So what you could do is refer to boiler plates, and those are basically very bare-bones templates that integrate with maybe Next.js and Tailwind and that's it. So I'm actually working on this. I'm calling it precedent. It's the first time I'm telling anyone actually right here, so you got the exclusive. Plan to launch it hopefully tomorrow, but we'll see. Basically it's a way, it's a very, very simple Next.js template that integrates with Tailwind, with Redis, with NextAuth, with Prisma and a lot.
It also provides some utility functions that I see myself using and reusing very often between all these projects I'm building. I used it in Dub, I used it in One Work Domains, and I also used it in ShareGPT, which is another project that I worked on. I can talk about that later. But basically this template is something that I personally want because I start new projects very often and to have a starting point that has all the components, all the utility functions that I always use, I personally find very, very helpful to go from zero to one. So yeah, this is something that I am excited to launch, and hopefully people resonate with that as well. It's a little opinionated, but I think in a good way. So yeah, that's a good example.

Noel Minchow:
Nice, awesome. Yeah, I feel like once people are in the ecosystem and they're looking around and they made the decision, they can parse the space pretty quickly and figure out where they should be starting, but it's always good to hear it. Tell me more about this GPT project you just mentioned.

Steven Tey:
Yeah, it's a project I worked on with one of my colleagues here, his name is Don, it basically was inspired when ChatGPT was launched, and we just wanted a way for people to share their ChatGPT conversations with basically, so what we built was a Chrome extension that you all need to do is click share and it would generate a static page using, as I mentioned earlier, Next.js dynamic routes that looks exactly the same as the ChatGPT UI. And it's basically persisted and has a short link that people can easily share. And it also uses the Vercel OG product that I talked about to show a preview of that conversation when you share it on Twitter, for example.
So that blew up a little bit when we launched because ChatGPT was blowing up, so it rolled along the wave there and it was featured on TechCrunch, which is really cool to see. Yeah, it really highlights the value proposition of Vercel, because that allowed us to go from Idea to Tech Wrench publication in four days. And that basically is inspired by all these different tools that I was mentioning earlier: Vercel OG, NextGen Dynamic Routes, all these utility functions that I've used before. I find myself reusing that all the time, and I also use that to kickstart this project as well. So yeah, that's a project.

Noel Minchow:
Nice. Nice. I feel like yeah, that's a good ribbon on top of the package. Check out Vercel, it seems cool. There's a lot of stuff for everybody, yeah. Anything else on the roadmap that's upcoming for Vercel that you want to point out or talk about?

Steven Tey:
Yeah, there are a lot of moving parts, but I think the ones I would like to highlight is a lot of, it's quite underrated, quality of life improvements when it comes to the product itself. For example, there's this domain web hook feature. I know it's a little bit niche, but it's a great addition to for platforms users, so people who are building multi-tenant applications. Right now, what you're doing is they're running a cron job to make sure that all 9,000 of the domains are configured correctly by checking against the Vercel domains API. But we are basically working on this web hook feature similar to Stripe, I don't know, subscription updated endpoint. We basically ping you when the domain status changes, so if it's configured correctly or if it's misconfigured, we'll let you know instead of you having to check manually for each one of them. So that's a small but very impactful feature that we're working on currently.
There are a plethora of others that I could go into, but I'm very excited. Another thing that we're, I'm personally working on is finally creating a platforms landing page. So it's going to be Vercel.com/platforms. It's basically a simple page that shows all the customers that are currently building platforms on Vercel, as well as the features that we really enable you to do. Custom domains, unlimited custom domains, generating SSL certificates right out the box, dynamic routes that allow you to scale infinitely. And yeah, I really am very excited about that because folks like Cloudflare already have their, they call it SSL for SaaS, and it's quite expensive, which is why I think this is something that we can shine and then stand out amongst the competition. So getting that landing page set up is the top priority for me in the next couple of weeks, which I'm very excited about as well.

Noel Minchow:
Nice, awesome. I guess yeah, anything else you want to point listeners to more broadly?

Steven Tey:
Yeah, so we recently launched Edge Config. It's our first foray into the land of databases. It's a very, very simple key value store that has ultra low latency. So based on our tests and measurements, the average P99 score for latency using Edge Config is five to 10 milliseconds, which is way shorter than Redis or any other existing solutions out there. Obviously, it's quite limited in terms of the data types that you can store, but it's perfect for you to do feature flagging, for you to do A/B testing, for you to manage complex redirects. If you have any broken links, you want to redirect those for you to handle environment variables, whatever. So that's the thing I'm very excited about.

Noel Minchow:
Yeah, I think that's a good list. Awesome. Well yeah, thank you. Thank you for sharing so much with us, Steven. It's been a pleasure and again, I'd implore people to go check out Vercel if they haven't yet.

Steven Tey:
For sure. Thank you so much for having me. I'm very excited to be here and share a little bit more about Vercel.

Noel Minchow:
Of course. Take it easy.