GeoHeroes - Leo Titus
===

[00:00:00] Guy: Welcome back to your GeoHero listeners. Really excited about another great podcast today with my friend Leo Titus. Welcome. Leo, can you introduce yourself?

[00:00:10] Leo: Yeah. Thanks guy. Glad to be here. I'm Leo Titus. I am the Chief Operating Officer

[00:00:15] for Engineering Consulting Services, ECS. I live and work in Northern Virginia.

[00:00:20] Guy: Okay. Well welcome today, Leo. Excited to find out what makes you tick in your thoughts on the geo profession.

[00:00:27] Leo: It's an honor to be here, so thank you.

[00:00:30] Guy: I'll just start , where did you grow up?

[00:00:32] Leo: I was born in Western New York Olean, New York. My parents went to St. Bonaventure University and lived there and moved around a little bit as a young child in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, Brookfield, Connecticut. Then ultimately, moved to Saratoga Springs, New York when I was probably about 10 or 11 years old. And that's where I consider my hometown. That's where my, mom grew up and my grandparents. And it's a really great place to grow up. So Saratoga [00:01:00] Springs, New York is my hometown.

[00:01:02] Guy: And that's where all the horse racing is.

[00:01:04] Leo: It's where the horse racing Hall of Fame is. Yeah, the oldest race track in the country. And I worked there in the summers.

[00:01:09] It was a great place to grow up.

[00:01:11] Guy: Tell me about that. What was your childhood like?

[00:01:15] Leo: I was a typical kid. In the seventies and early eighties baseball, baseball cards, riding bikes. It was just a pretty easy childhood and very fortunate and, you know, as I grew up and could work. I started doing paper routes and things like that and then when we were in Saratoga, I was as a teenager working at the track. It was a really cool place to work and see, how the world works. 'cause you know, the town would shut down and all these people would come into Saratoga from New York City and a lot of money into your little small town and you. See a lot of interesting things. So it was a fun fun time and glad I had that opportunity.

[00:01:53] Guy: Anything from that time to really stick with you to this day, like life lessons or 

[00:01:58] Leo: Yeah, you know, 

[00:01:59] Guy: humanity.[00:02:00] 

[00:02:00] Leo: it, it was interesting. I just, I saw a lot of. Positive and negative things. I learned, how people treated each other in good ways and bad ways. And I guess that's true anywhere. It's not specific to me working at the track in Saratoga, but.

[00:02:14] when you're 16 years old and you're in the kind of the real world of working and you see people and how they treat each other. I started to notice that and I saw some things that were negative and, you know, I thought, I don't wanna be treated like that. I wouldn't do that.

[00:02:27] And I saw a lot of things that were positive that I wanted to emulate. So it was that kind of, that formative time where you start to, learn things that you don't maybe learn when you're, hanging out with your friends, trading baseball cards on the sidewalk.

[00:02:39] Guy: Yeah, I bet it was an exaggerated environment with the slug of crowds coming in and the money associated with the 

[00:02:44] Leo: Exactly, yep.

[00:02:47] Guy: So what kind of job did you do at the racetrack, Leo? Were you grooming the horses or taking the tickets or sweeping the floors or all the above?

[00:02:55] Leo: No. I was actually on the concession side. I worked my first [00:03:00] year I was working in an ice cream stand, and my job was essentially to stock the stand. When they ran out of cups or bowls or cones or ice cream I'd go down to the. To the area where everything was stored, the storage area and the coolers and things, and I'd bring it to the ice cream stand. And then subsequent years I worked as a bar back basically behind the bar helping the bartenders, making sure that the kegs of beer were full and. Getting them cups and anything, any other things that they'd run out of in the park. A lot of times I'd be sitting there just hanging out, waiting for someone to tell me to go fetch something. And that was kind of cool because I could watch the horse races and learn all, all about horse racing. And then when someone needed a keg of beer, I'd have to go down there and grab that and get it loaded up.

[00:03:48] Guy: You still play the ponies or you just watch.

[00:03:51] Leo: I do for special races, you know, Kentucky Derby, the Belmont Preakness, the Travers up in Saratoga. So I watch big races and I might bet 10 bucks on a race or [00:04:00] something just for fun,

[00:04:01] Guy: But you pay attention to it because you had some connection to that industry.

[00:04:05] Leo: Yeah, it's fun. One of the negative things that I did see, I saw a lot of people who gambled a lot and you could see there were people that, that was their life.

[00:04:14] And I said, I don't wanna do that. You, it's, there is a gambling, addictions a real thing. I saw some of that and learned it at an early age to try to stay away from that. Do it for fun on occasion, like you're going to the movies and spend a little bit of money and expect to lose it is one thing.

[00:04:29] But if you're there every day, all day and it's probably not a good thing.

[00:04:32] Guy: Yeah, probably the same with the casinos where it's a sort of a sad tale in total. Really. Okay. How about you as a student? Were you a good student when you were young? You serious about school? I.

[00:04:42] Leo: I would say I was a, a B student, B plus student. My mother was a teacher, so she was pretty strict on, me getting my homework done when I came home from school. But I wasn't I wouldn't say I was, I. [00:05:00] Driven. I wasn't driven to get great grades, and I didn't, I don't think I, I realized it until I was a senior in high school and I started to apply to colleges that, oh, you know, my grades from freshman year.

[00:05:11] Actually, I have to put that in my application. And I, maybe I should have studied a little harder freshman year in Spanish. But I was in high school, I was a b plus student in college. I, was a CB student for my first year or two until I figured things out.

[00:05:29] And then once I got interested in things and I enjoyed what I was studying my grades got better. But, for the most part, if anyone asked, I would say B student.

[00:05:38] Guy: So what was your field of study in school and how did you choose that?

[00:05:43] Leo: When I was young, I was really into science fiction, and I think one of my favorite movies was 2001 Space Odyssey. And, there were scenes in that movie where these scientists and engineers and would go, went to the moon and I thought, man, I [00:06:00] would, I want to do that. I want. I wanna go to space, I wanna build space stations, I wanna go to the moon. So when I was in high school trying to figure out how do I, go down that path engineering specifically mechanical engineering was the a logical thing to do. And so that's what I did. I went to Clarkson University in upstate New York.

[00:06:20] I entered the mechanical engineering program, and then sophomore year I ran into something called Rigid Body Dynamics. Which changed my mind. I was very good in statics class. I enjoyed statics. Nothing moved. It was all pretty much, things stood still. But the dynamics class, my, my brain, had a trouble processing. That summer, after that sophomore year I got a job as a Mason's helper in construction sites, and I really understood what we were doing. And thought, well, everything we're building here stands still. I got the [00:07:00] statics part, so I went back to Clarkson and changed my major to civil engineering.

[00:07:04] So that's how I got from wanting to go to the moon, to be getting into civil engineering was a weird path, but that's how it happened.

[00:07:13] Guy: Any key people in your life there that helped steer you or were impactful for for you as you figured that stage of your life out?

[00:07:21] Leo: I would say that interestingly the key people and the adults around me when I was in high school were coaching me and saying, you'd be a really good teacher. I. You should go into education. You go into teaching and I, my mom was a teacher and

[00:07:38] I. I don't wanna be a teacher.

[00:07:40] I, I wanna go to the moon, so I'm gonna go into engineering. So I was kind of, going a different path than what those folks were suggesting I do. And ironically the interesting thing is I've learned through the course of my career that teaching I am a good teacher, or I think I am. And I enjoy doing it. And, I do it now. I'm an adjunct [00:08:00] instructor at Clarkson. I teach a class and I do a lot of lectures in schools for anywhere from grade school through college. So I enjoy that part. And even in in my career throughout teaching and teaching technicians about soil compaction teaching, you know, other engineers about the business side of things it's been part of being who I am even though I didn't. Plan on being an educator, if you will.

[00:08:28] Guy: Do you go to Clarkson for those classes or is that all online?

[00:08:31] Leo: It's all online. I've been teaching it virtually now for eight, eight years and it's, it was before virtual was a thing, you know, it was

[00:08:39] way before COVID. I've been doing lectures at Virginia Tech and George Mason University on geotechnical engineering and special inspections. And I thought this could be a whole class, this special inspection thing.

[00:08:51] I planned on teaching it in Virginia right down the street from my office. But when I was talking to some faculty at Clarkson, when I was up there for a [00:09:00] recruiting visit they said, don't teach it down there. Teach it up here. And I said, okay, well if we could do it virtually, I'll do it. And that's how we did it.

[00:09:07] Guy: That's pretty cool. So for our listeners, you can sign up Clarkson for the Leo Titus, materials class.

[00:09:13] Leo: That's right.

[00:09:15] Guy: No shameless plugs here. So walk us through the, your careers. Like you're graduating from Clarkson with a degree in civil engineering. What's on your mind at that point in your life.

[00:09:23] What was your first job? What were you doing?

[00:09:25] Leo: Yeah. I graduated 1991. There was a recession at the time. Honestly I had never heard of the term. I. Civil engineering degree, but I, maybe I wasn't paying attention in class, but I'd really never heard of the term geotechnical engineer before. I had taken one soil class, soil mechanics class, and really didn't know. You know what, with my degree, what path I was going to go down. Am I gonna be a structural engineer? Am I gonna be a transportation engineer, a water wastewater, environmental? There were a lot of different paths I [00:10:00] could go, but at that point I was just looking for a job because not of pe a lot of people had jobs. And I got a job in upstate New York with a company well, I had the summer job. In upstate New York and they called me back and said, would you like to work when you graduate? And I said, absolutely. And I ended up moving down to Maryland and working in a small office as a geotechnical materials testing.

[00:10:26] Services, and that's what I did. I worked in the field and ultimately worked as an assistant to a geotechnical engineer for a few years learning all about that and and getting under understanding that. So that's kind of how I started into the field.

[00:10:42] Guy: Was that ECS or somebody else at that time?

[00:10:44] Leo: It was not ECS, it was PSI, so I

[00:10:46] was with PSI back in the early nineties.

[00:10:50] Guy: So how did your career unfold from there? You know, you 

[00:10:53] Leo: Yeah.

[00:10:54] Guy: A lab and now you're a CEO of a big big engineering company.

[00:10:58] Leo: You know, it was [00:11:00] interesting. Back then, and I don't know how PSI does it now, but back then they had a program where they would hire young engineers out of school and try to put 'em on a kind of a fast track to learn management. Which I was on and within a few years, less than three years, I think it was two, two and a half years, I was eventually moved up to Worcester, Massachusetts, and I was a branch manager in November.

[00:11:26] I. It was actually November of 1992, so it was probably less than two years of experience from graduating college. And I was running a very small office in Worcester. And I had, you know, a handful of few technicians an administrative person there. And I really didn't know what I was doing when it came to management, right. But I learned, and I, was afraid of failure, so I was trying to figure out how to do this job. I had some good, good mentors that helped me and coached me. And I did that for a few years. We grew, by the time [00:12:00] I left Worcester a few years later, we had about 15 people there. We went from four people to 15 and we were profitable, and I moved down to Virginia. So, they asked me, PSI asked me to move down to Virginia. And I was in the Fairfax, Virginia area running the geotechnical and comet services there. And after about a year I felt like I wasn't, I. Learning geotechnical engineering. I was really getting most of my time was being spent in the management issues and I really still felt like, Hey I've gotten recently had gotten my PE but I was not a good engineer.

[00:12:39] I wasn't, I have not learned engineering. You know, I decided, maybe I should go I'm not gonna get that here. I didn't have a lot of, at that time locally there engineering support. So I decided to leave and I went to ECS. And I. There at ECS went from managing a, several million dollar [00:13:00] operation for PSI in Fairfax to essentially being a project engineer geotechnical project engineer, working on my own projects at ECS.

[00:13:09] Guy: So

[00:13:09] Leo: how I started at ECS.

[00:13:11] Guy: before you leave that, so what do you think the key things were to being a successful manager, especially you know, that young in your career.

[00:13:19] Leo: That's a good question. Yeah I don't, that's listening really and understanding both, what the expectations are from. The leadership and the, your supervisor superiors in the company and what their expectations are, but also listening and understanding the people who are actually in the trenches, literally doing the job and being able to communicate. Sometimes felt like just a mediator, a buffer between, this management larger company pushing the management side of things and then the folks in the lab, in the trenches, on the job sites and trying to help [00:14:00] them execute so that we kind of achieve a common goal. I was learning on the job, it was definitely several years of on the job training had some good managers. 

[00:14:11] Guy: a lot of listeners that could, there's probably a lot of listeners right now that could identify with learning on the job like that, so it's great that you're willing to talk about it.

[00:14:18] Leo: Yeah, I look back on it, there were some, I learned a lot of good things and bad things. I learned kind of like I was saying earlier when I was working at the track, I. I observed management, and I'm not talking about a company so much as individuals where I thought that's the way I wanna do things.

[00:14:36] And in some cases, that's the way I don't want to do things. So I kinda learned the good and the bad and try to find my own way of handling situations and managing through issues. And it was on the, like I said, on the job training and looking back on it, I think today, you know what I. Take a 23-year-old person and throw them into a, an office that's losing a lot of money and [00:15:00] expect them to turn it around and be successful. No, you know that. No, but, you know, looking back on it, it was a great experience for me that, that really helped define, my, what I did in the future.

[00:15:14] I learned a lot of things, what to do, what not to do, kind of things. Progress through my career.

[00:15:19] Guy: I interrupted you, but back to starting at ECS as a project engineer, tell us about your trajectory from there till now.

[00:15:28] Leo: So I wanted to learn engineering and I got involved. I was working on a lot of geotechnical projects. I really enjoyed it. In different geologies. Being in Northern Virginia you have a lot of different geologies with coastal plains and the Piedmont, there's kars terrain. And so that, that was fun.

[00:15:45] A lot of challenges. And the way ECS works and still does, the geotechnical engineers are very actively involved in the com projects. And so I had my share of active projects that were under construction where we were doing foundation [00:16:00] testing, inspection, we were doing concrete testing and that sort of thing. And I was familiar with all that because I had managed that those types of services. And manage the day to day issues with technicians getting on the job site on time and that sort of thing. And as time went on, I asked a lot of questions about, well, why do we do it this way?

[00:16:21] And wouldn't, maybe you should try this in terms of the running the com services be. And at some point, I, I think I asked too many questions and someone said something to the effect of maybe you should run the Comet department. And I said, I don't when I was asked to do that I said, I need to think about that because I really wanted to learn. Engineering. But I knew I could do it. I knew I would be good at it. So, I went back to the office maybe the following Monday and said, yeah, okay I'll do that. And I took over as a department manager in Chantilly, Virginia for ECS running our CoMET [00:17:00] department. At the time I think we might have had 30 to 40 field technicians two different labs, concrete lab. And a soil lab, a very busy lab breaking at the time, maybe 3000 cylinders a week kind of thing. I still had my finger in and working on some geotechnical projects, but all of a sudden now managing a group of 50 plus people, and

[00:17:24] it's a 

[00:17:24] Guy: were, what was your big break then to get you into the ranks of the COO?

[00:17:30] Leo: what's that?

[00:17:30] Guy: What was your big break the, to get to where you are now, like your CEO spot, COO spot.

[00:17:36] Leo: I don't know that there was ever a big break. What, what happened is ECS just grew. The opportunities came as the company grew, and that's, one of the great advantages to a growing company is there's going to be more opportunities for, people to grow. So as the company grew, my boss at the time was the office manager, instil. I was a department manager. Running come, well, [00:18:00] he moved on up into another role. And they needed an office manager. So I was afforded that opportunity to be the office manager. And as the company continued to grow we started to need regional managers. And at one point, I think it was around 2007. I became the Mid-Atlantic president which, ECS is divided into geographic divisions. And I ran the Mid-Atlantic division for about 13 years. So from 2007 up until about 2021, which is all of our operations in Virginia Maryland Pennsylvania that area.

[00:18:38] Guy: So how big is ECS now Leo?

[00:18:41] Leo: ECS is just about 2,800 people. We've got about a hundred locations across the country right now. So we're. Officially coast to coast. We do have some operations out in California, but we started in Virginia, in Chantilly, Virginia. That in [00:19:00] 1988 with about, I think about 12 or 13 people total, there was three founders that started the company hired in some folks that they had worked with, and then has grown from there.

[00:19:10] So, I would put it in, in terms of, in our industry, it's a big company. I.

[00:19:15] Guy: Yeah. And congratulations on your ascent through that. I happen to know you a little bit, Leo, and so I'm gonna ask you a couple questions. What was your life like during that ascension? Anything you wanna share with us there?

[00:19:26] Leo: When I joined ECS was in my, late twenties. I, my first daughter had just been born. So it was a big, big change for me to change companies with a newborn baby. I think she's literally three months old. I've had a, you know, a number of life changing experiences during that time. September 11th 2001 was you know, everyone knows a major historical event. And at that time I was part of, the Fairfax County Urban Search and Rescue team, and ended up being deployed at the Pentagon on September 11th, and I was there for a week. [00:20:00] And that whole thing, really changed my perspective.

[00:20:03] Spending a week there seeing the things that I saw. And when I got back to ECS the little things that, I might get upset about or, frustrated with, seem to be less significant than, when you see some of these major events. And then of course, I know you know guy that a couple years later, after my third daughter was born, I. My wife was diagnosed with breast cancer and she was 34. We were both 34. And then she ultimately passed away just about five months after she was diagnosed. So another life-changing experience here.

[00:20:39] I've got, got a good job. I'm, I'm growing with the company. I've got three kids. Living on a cul-de-sac and your life just gets, thrown upside down. So that, that is another experience that, that, was going on in, my non-work life. That, that really shaped a lot of ways, I think.

[00:20:57] And anyway, so

[00:20:59] [00:21:00] That's 

[00:21:00] Guy: really a tragic time, Leo and my heart goes out to you. We talked about this before, but tell us how that shaped your view of the world today versus, prior to those events. I mean, you talked a little bit about it with the nine 11 .

[00:21:10] Leo: Yeah, I think the, you know, just in general, perspective about. Life and, what's important going to work, having a career is important. Putting a roof over your head and feeding your family is important and, but there are things in life that when you really break it down it's not that important. You can get very upset, angry, frustrated about things, whether it's at work or at home. But when you think about, what, you are getting all worked up about it, at the end of the day, these things aren't that important. So those living through those experiences in my, when I'm in my thirties. Made me look at things differently and it's hard to put into words other than I, I, [00:22:00] look at things differently.

[00:22:01] I still get frustrated. I still get upset about things, but I have to remind myself, think about this, Leo, this isn't, that this isn't worth getting upset about. And, spending time with family. And yeah just having a different perspective on what's important.

[00:22:17] Guy: I've certainly noticed that. And you, Leo, you're one of the most even keel guys I know. And trending towards positive and obviously there's ways to channel that and you've done a great job with that. I happen to know a couple other things about you, Leo, and I'm gonna sort of, prompt you.

[00:22:29] Maybe you'll bite. Genealogy. Tell me about the great tightest clan. This, 

[00:22:34] Leo: Oh man. Is this be a series of a podcast that.

[00:22:37] Guy: let's just to keep it a minute or less, but it.

[00:22:41] Leo: I'll just give you the thumbnail. I mean, I, I really got into it in the early nineties and got learning about the Civil War Ken Burns PBS series came out and then learned that one of my ancestors, Silas Titus, was in the Civil War and he was a colonel. And it just caught me down this rabbit hole of kind of an [00:23:00] obsession and to the point where I did a lot of research.

[00:23:03] This is before the internet was. Available as it is today. And I spent a lot of time in the nineties in libraries across the country, digging up information and researching. And in 2004 I published a book a genealogy not like. Bestseller on Amazon or anything. It was, this was about 450, 500 copies that that I sold some and I donated a whole bunch to libraries across the country and some in Europe which essentially documented the first Titus to come to America in 1635.

[00:23:36] And it, uh, includes about 13,000 of his descendants with the tightest surname.

[00:23:42] Guy: I just find that fascinating and maybe that'll be a subsequent podcast. I also happen to know you're a bourbon connoisseur. Maybe I could give us high level thoughts on bourbon.

[00:23:51] Leo: I would say I, I don't know, connoisseur is the right word, and it's more whiskey and spirits I've become a little bit of a hobby. I enjoy, [00:24:00] I. Learning about and trying different spirits. So certainly it started in bourbon and learning the different things. I like it's kind of grown to where I've learned a lot about Irish whiskeys and, and scotch, and then got into some of the brandies, like cognac and armak. Calvados, uh, apple brandies. So, I enjoy it. I've got a small group of of friends that we get together and we share things, and we get together pretty regularly and talk about different spirits. It's a fun hobby and it's less about the, spirits as much as it is the comradery and friendship that you build with the folks that you're sharing it with.

[00:24:38] Guy: Lio, I find you a super fascinating guy and I'd love to keep going down the road of your personal story because you have these twists and turns that I just find extremely interesting. But back to the more of the geo hero theme how did you first get connected to GBA?

[00:24:53] Leo: I'll tell you I. Part of the A STM I was involved with [00:25:00] ASTM and I met Woody Voght. Woody was on several committees that I was on, and I got to know Woody. Every six months we'd get together and work on ASTM standards. And this is probably going back now. Oh, geez. 25 years. And at one point 2002, 2003, Woody suggested to me, you know, you should really get to get involved with A SFE. The, at the time it was a SFE, and you should join the CoMET committee and who you know, which he was the chair of at that time. And so I knew ECS was a member of ASFE and I was able to I don't remember which was my first meeting, but it was probably 2002, 2003, and went to my first CoMET meeting. And it was very interesting. That's kind of how I got involved because there was some alignment with some of the things we were talking about at A STM on some of these standards with [00:26:00] comit related standards. And from there I just kind of thought this is a great place to hang out and talk to folks and learn.

[00:26:07] So that's, that was how I got in Woody vote, who I considered a friend and a GBA, ASTM mentor, if you will introduced me and encouraged me to do that.

[00:26:16] Guy: And obviously did a lot in there as Leo as a former president of GBA. So when you look at the, your career Leo back from the early nineties and the recession till now, towards the end or not quite yet the end of your career, but at least you've had a. Some horizon to look over.

[00:26:32] What do you see as the changes in the profession over that time?

[00:26:36] Leo: I think the changes I've seen, the fundamentals of the profession. Haven't changed. You know, geotechnical engineering, the science, the engineering, the theory hasn't changed in my opinion. I see the processes change. I see how we execute our work change. Some of the [00:27:00] technologies that I was using, when I first started are the same exact technologies that we're using now. Your conventional rotary, hollow stem, augers, SPT testing. Now there's lots of other testing that's been developed for certain things, which is great for investigation and capturing data. I. But it's the processes in, in communication with technology and how we've, you know, back then I was handwriting geotechnical reports that, would take to an administrative person who would type it and correct my grammar and all that. Now we have, the tools have evolved to, to help be more efficient to help execute. Let engineers be engineers and not be, writers and engineers need to be good communicators. And there's, I think that's an issue that's always been there in our industry and still is in terms of good communication. There's a lot of tools and technologies that are helping the average engineer. Or even a below average engineer in terms [00:28:00] of communication ability become a better engineer because they can communicate better.

[00:28:05] Guy: So leveling the playing field on some of those traditionally weaker, interesting take. What about all the changes that we're seeing now in demographics and technology? Do you think there's any disruptions coming for our profession .

[00:28:17] Leo: Disruption, isn't the word I'd use personally. I think, having observed these different changes in my career, I certainly would expect, looking forward 30 years, that there will be more changes, there will be more ch you know, you a lot of buzz about AI and what that will do to not just our industry, but all sorts of different industries.

[00:28:39] And that's certainly going to have have a role, I think similar to, to how I, observed. The communication tools that, that I used back then have changed, but it, but I don't think it fundamentally changes, the relationships that we build with our clients the engineering, the technical aspects of [00:29:00] our, our role.

[00:29:00] I mean, soil and rock, concrete and steel I don't see these things changing the foreseeable future. The tools we use to measure to test, to communicate may evolve and improve to be more efficient or find better data. But but the fundamentals there in my opinion probably always be there.

[00:29:20] Guy: And for a young person, what are those fundamentals that you think are critically important now and into the future?

[00:29:27] Leo: Well as a consulting engineer I think relationships with our clients and with our employees. Are, it's not a technical answer, right? But that is so important to a successful business, is understanding your employees and understanding your client's needs and building a business process that meets both, right?

[00:29:53] That's fundamental. And some of the fundamentals of your client's expectations are. Do I [00:30:00] get my report from you on time? Do you know just really basic stuff that they don't always teach in school. And you learn these things the hard way.

[00:30:09] Where, or, oh boy, my report was late. So, the client's not hiring me again. Maybe the next time I need to get my report done a little sooner or at least call the client and say, Hey let's go to lunch and lemme explain to you what's going on. And oh, by the way, the report might be a few days late.

[00:30:23] Okay, no problem. Communication relationships is really I think the foundation of a, a successful consulting engineer.

[00:30:31] Guy: It sounds like some wise words. If you look back, if you look forward, what do you think our profession looks like in 10 years? Can you speculate?

[00:30:39] Leo: I think there's going to. It's hard to speculate, but I think it's the same with improved or different technologies to help execute. I don't know what they are and not, it's hard for me to speculate on what AI's impact will be, what a new technology that we don't even know exists, [00:31:00] hasn't been developed yet that might help us do certain things. But the fundamentals of. Engineering, geotechnic materials science they'll all be there. And the fundamentals of, client relationships and humans interacting, that's all gonna be there. Hopefully. I mean, hopefully that the AI and everything doesn't take the humans out of it, I see it the same with some different tools.

[00:31:22] Is, is probably, it would be my prediction.

[00:31:24] Guy: Okay. That sounds really interesting. You don't see the matrix environment coming in the next 10 years.

[00:31:31] Leo: I hope not.

[00:31:32] Guy: Okay. Well let's shift to the next phase of our interview. Leo. I wanna go into the speed round. 

[00:31:37] Leo: Okay. 

[00:31:38] Guy: It's called the speed round. 'cause I'm gonna ask you and all of our interviews the same questions and, just, answer them.

[00:31:43] It doesn't have to be light speed. You just take your time and give us a good answer. I'm gonna start with a softball of what's your favorite book?

[00:31:51] Leo: I love nonfiction. Love history. I think my favorite, one of my favorite authors is David McCollough, who I didn't know it at the time, but if I [00:32:00] mentioned earlier, the Civil War documentary from the early nineties, he was the narrator of that. So if anyone's familiar with that voice from that. He's also narrated some, narrated, some other documentaries. But he wrote, has written some really interesting books and what's what I love about them, not just the historical learning about the history of certain things, but there's a lot of engineering construction related things going on in his books.

[00:32:23] He wrote a book, one of his first books that might have been his first book was the Johnstown Flood. And I learned so much about. Dam construction in the 18 hundreds learning about how this dam failed and it wiped out the town of Johnstown, Pennsylvania and the tragedy there. But it was a fascinating book that kept me on the edge of my seat. As I was reading it he wrote a, another one of my favorite books, the Great Bridge about the construction of the Brooklyn Bridge. The chapters will alternate between the political and financial issues about, building this bridge and the [00:33:00] constructability and the engineering issues about building the bridge.

[00:33:02] You know, we kind of. Weave in and out of these things. And it was just, I found it fascinating. He wrote another book on the Panama Canal, so anything historical and those by David McCall that tie into engineering. I think his last book before he died was the Wright Brothers, if you're interested in aviation history, that's an outstanding book about the history of the Wright Brothers and how they went through the process of developing, it's the first flight.

[00:33:29] Guy: I've read some of McCullough's books and he's very good. And I agree. They're really interesting. Perhaps you could be that you're already a published author, so you could take the mantle upon retirement.

[00:33:39] Leo: I don't think so.

[00:33:41] Guy: So when you look out at our, profession and a limit to our profession, what's your optimism index?

[00:33:45] Going forward for us one being very low pessimistic, and five being extremely optimistic.

[00:33:51] Leo: I'm optimistic. I'm a very optimistic person. I like to think and I, I'd just say five. I mean there's, there's gonna be challenges [00:34:00] in any industry. I think one of the biggest challenges we have is going to be the shortage of technical people coming out of schools. But as an industry, you know, the. Construction of buildings and roads and everything that we're, the geo professionals are involved with are going to continue and they're going to, there's going to be a need for our profession. And perhaps even greater demand. I. Going forward.

[00:34:24] So I think I'm very optimistic that, for people who are thinking about what career to go into it's not something that gets a lot of airtime in high schools about going into be a geotechnical engineer, the computer engineers and the. Computer sciences, all that, they're the more in thing. But our profession, I think I'm very optimistic about the industry and our profession for the very first, for the foreseeable future.

[00:34:53] Guy: That's probably a good segue to this question. If you had one piece of advice for those entering the profession what would it be?

[00:34:59] Leo: I would [00:35:00] say get involved. I think one of the more rewarding parts of my career, now that I've been doing it for over 30 years, almost 35 years, it's been very rewarding working for a company that really takes care of its people and takes care of its clients. But getting involved outside of the day to day. Running a business in engineering projects has probably been just as rewarding, if not more. And when I say get involved getting involved with GBA , is a good example. And not get involved. Go to some meetings now and then, but get on committees, be active, find something you enjoy and are passionate about. Find that group of people that have that, share that and get involved with that. And you're going to have an opportunity to improve your industry, not just improve your company. 'cause you'll bring back lots of value and ideas that can help your company thrive. But you're gonna bring your [00:36:00] ideas that, that association organization may able be able to help improve the industry as a whole.

[00:36:06] Guy: Oh, that's great advice. Great advice. So in your own career, Leo, what's, what do you feel like is your biggest impact you've had in your professional life?

[00:36:15] Leo: I think it's hard. I laugh now. I'm not laughing like it's funny, but I chuckle a little bit because I don't know if I'll ever know the greatest impact. And I give you an

[00:36:26] example of what I mean. As I said earlier I like to teach and I've given lectures all over different schools. And one of the, one of the lectures that I like to give, I, I call why it's cool to be a geotechnical engineer. I. And this is really designed for people in high school or maybe freshmen in college who haven't chosen their path. And it's building on my experience of not knowing what a geotechnical engineer really did until after I graduated from college. So I gave this lecture, and then a [00:37:00] few years later I was standing at a recruiting booth at the same school, and a student walked up to me, he's a senior, and said, Mr. Titus. You don't know me, but you gave a lecture in my class a few years ago about geotechnical engineering and I just wanted to let you know that I've decided I was really interested in it.

[00:37:22] I've decided I'm gonna go on to get a master's in geotechnical engineering,

[00:37:25] and I got, I got to tell you a guy, every time I think about it, that the hair in the back of my neck stands up. I almost cried , standing there. My point is you never know what your impact is gonna be. That person may have decided not to go to the career fair that day, and I would've never known that.

[00:37:42] I gave a 45 minute talk three years earlier and it changed that kid's direction, right? So I think, the teaching, the mentoring is I hope had a positive impact. I expect I'll never know how much because there may be other folks out there that I [00:38:00] haven't bumped into that may be something I said or something I shared has changed the path they went on. But I think getting involved in GBA, getting involved with a STM teaching in schools and sharing with others overall has had a, hopefully had a positive impact on others in the industry.

[00:38:17] Guy: That's a great answer and very fitting of you, Leo, who I view as a very people focused person. So the flip of that, and you've been very successful in your career. In your life. But if you look at your, you know, whole trajectory of Leo what would you do over, is there anything you would change?

[00:38:35] You're probably gonna say, well, I'm here now, but any regrets, small regrets or decision points along the way that you wonder if you took a different road?

[00:38:44] Leo: No, I don't think so. I've thought about that question before and you kinda look back and, you know, there's certainly little things that, you know in your life. That you might have done differently but you never know what the outcome's going to be [00:39:00] when you make that choice.

[00:39:01] And how it can affect where you are in 10 years. So, I really can't think of anything that I would change. I think if anything I would ask more questions I would try to learn more to help me have a better understanding. And what I mean by that is asking more questions of my clients and better understand what's important to them? Asking more questions of employees about what's important to them and how to make it an even better place to, to work and that sort of thing. But overall in making decisions on, my career jobs I've taken things like that.

[00:39:35] No I think, uh, I can't think of anything I'd change.

[00:39:39] Guy: Okay. This pretty much brings us to the end of the interview, Leo. But before we conclude, are there any final thoughts that you would like to share with our audience?

[00:39:48] Leo: I really appreciate the opportunity guy and honored that he asked me to do this. I don't consider myself a hero, a geo hero. But I have really enjoyed, I. My [00:40:00] time with GBA and I continue to. Be involved with GBA. It's not coming to an end, but I think it's been a really great part of who I am and bringing back value to my company and things that we've been able to leverage from the great resources that GBA has.

[00:40:17] So, I hope that folks that are listening that are involved or thinking about getting involved in the Geof Business Association will, do just that and get more involved and active and help make, uh, make the industry better.

[00:40:31] Guy: Well said, Leo. I really enjoyed talking with you today and I appreciate you giving us your time and being willing to share, your story. So that's all folks. We're gonna sign off. Take care, Leo.

[00:40:41] Leo: you. Thank you. It's been an honor.