GWG Podcast - Audio - Complete
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[00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to the special production of the GBA podcast, brought to you by the Geoprofessional Business Association. In this episode, members of the newly formed Geoprofessional Women's Group met to discuss the intent, value, and need for the group in a collaborative virtual setting. Thanks to the participants of this recording, and without further ado, let's get on with the show.

All right. Welcome to our podcast on the GBA Geoprofessional Women's Group. As you can see, we have a lovely set of panelists here today. Incredibly intelligent, incredibly diverse cross section of the geo professions, and I'm super excited to talk about this today. So. What are we, what are we talking about?

We're talking about why we formed the Geoprofessional Women's Group, which we're calling the GWG and why it's important and what we hope to gain out of it and why [00:01:00] we are all here. So we'll do some brief introductions and talk about, you know, why we're here. So I'll introduce myself first. My name is Carrie Rodriguez and I'm a geotechnical engineer and I'm the geotechnical practice lead at my company, GBSK Associates in California.

I'm also on the GBA Board of directors and I've been practic practicing geotechnical engineering since 1998. This idea for, um. Having a Geoprofessional women's group as part of the GBA came from a women in engineering panel at Cal Geo last year and Joel Carson, the executive director of the GBA was sitting in the audience and he approached me afterwards and said the GBA absolutely has to have a women's group.

And it kind of blew my mind that we didn't have one previously. So I was a little reticent and I, you know, used my usual excuse that I'm just an engineer and I've always ignored the fact that I'm a woman. [00:02:00] But I started to realize how important the women were that got me here where, where I am, including my mother and, um, my one and only female mentor, Catherine Ellis, who is on this podcast.

Um. I also started realizing how important I've been to other women, and especially in telling my story, which includes taking six years off to raise my kids. And I think Nikki has a similar story, which is really, which is really exciting. So, you know, with that came the realization that I shouldn't brush off being a woman and I should embrace it instead.

So, so here we are and, um, that's why we created this group because I'm positive there are a lot of similar stories out there. And I realized we should definitely have a bigger group of women than just what's available at our own companies, which tends to be a small group. So that's how this all got started.

And, you know, [00:03:00] our vision as the GWG is to, you know, create collaboration, learning, networking, support, and empowerment. And I think all of those will turn into. Good retention for companies, uh, women that feel all of those things and feel empowered will, can be retained much easier. So let's meet our panelists and just have a quick introduction about who you are and why you are here.

So I'm gonna start with Liz Brown. Hello, I am Liz Brown. I am a geo engineer in Boise, Idaho. I have been in the industry for 20 years. Um, I was at a company for my entire career until recently when I decided to make the jump and started my own company. So a bit, a bit of a change there. Um, but really wanted to, [00:04:00] to join this group one, to, to build my network, to build more, more females in my network.

'cause as Carrie said, it's, it's very male dominated and. And it's nice to be able to, to talk with females like how we have here of varying degrees of early, mid, late career where wherever they're at, she can always help each other and learn from each other. And that's something that I really wanted to gain from this.

Awesome. Thank you Liz. I appreciate that. Catherine, Katherine Ellis. I'm a geotechnical engineer sitting in San Francisco Bay area. Got almost 30 years of experience and I'm here, uh, because I have figured out that it's, it's much easier when you have somebody to help navigate growth than when you're trying to figure it out alone.

And I've never been completely alone, but I wanna have a wider group to help connect with women, to help bring up and strengthen the women in our profession, and also build some [00:05:00] networks and greater, uh, contacts peer to peer as well. Awesome. Thank you, Catherine. Do. Hi, I'm Dory Ross. I am, uh, senior Vice President of Client Services at Sanborn Head.

Uh, we're headquartered in New Hampshire, but I am, uh, in my home office about 20 miles west of Boston, and I have been in the business for over 30 years. Um, I started out as a geotechnical engineer, um, but I worked my way up into the business end of things and I, I sit firmly in running the business now and not doing engineering anymore.

Um, and, and that's kind of a unique path and I'm kind of excited about. Sharing my experiences with others who are coming up through the industry and, and showing them, um, that there are different pathways, right? [00:06:00] Um, and different options available to them based on their skills and their interests and their, their wants and desires.

And I, I'm really looking forward to, for me, forward giving back, um, to others in the profession. And, and I do love the idea of having, uh, women who were able to mentor other women. I did not have any women mentors, and I was very fortunate to have fantastic male mentors, um, who were amazing. Um, but I think it, it's really nice to have that diversity.

Dory. Thank you. Yes. We wouldn't be where we are without the men in our lives. Uh, they, you know, we're surrounded by them, but it's, it's wonderful to have some, some women to lean on as well. Uh, Nikki. I am Nikki Scalia. My background is in geotechnical engineering. I worked for over a decade for a engineering consulting firm, and um, then I took a long break to take care of my young family.

And when I was coming back [00:07:00] from that break, I was looking at, um, difficulties with coming back into an engineering role. Um. The time away also gave me time to reflect on the parts that I enjoyed most. And so now I am working as a business development manager for the Geoprofessional Business Association.

Um, so I work for GBA now, and um, I'm really excited to be able to use the skills that I gained in my engineering job and the things that would've led me into something along the lines of a project management, client management type role. Um, but being able to use that to kind of give back to all the Geoprofessionals and use my background to be able to connect with all of you, um, because I'm part of the same world.

Um, I know the, the difficulties in. Not just the being a woman side [00:08:00] of things, but just being a Geoprofessional, um, and how difficult that can be, uh, as part of the world. Um, and I would say that, uh, I currently sit in Fort Collins, Colorado, but I have done work in the east coast, the west coast, and everywhere in between.

And so one of the things that I've noticed there is, while there are differences in some of the, um, cultures surrounding females in the engineering professions, um, there is a lot of similarities as well. Um, and something that I really have noticed is how there's been, uh, growth and. These supportive women's groups across the industry.

You see, you know, the Society of Women in [00:09:00] Engineering, you see, um, society of Mining Engineers, they have a women's group. They, there's just more and more of these women's groups becoming a bigger part of everything. And I think that's really important in terms of not just the networking side of things, but like everybody has been talking about, just increasing that network of support.

Um, a lot of times you find yourself being one of the only women in a room and that can feel daunting at times. So being able to have a network to go to when you find yourself in those situations to bounce off of it can be really valuable. So I love that this is something that is part of GBA. Yeah, and you're right Nikki.

You know, there, uh, there's so many other associations and organizations that have women's groups and that's, I think why we were like, why doesn't the GBA, so, mm-hmm. So here we are, you know, and we'll focus on [00:10:00] different things because we're the GBA, we're not a technical association. We are a, you know, business management, risk management type association.

So it'll be really fun to see what kind of, um, initiatives come out of it. And I'll speak a little bit about the initiatives that we have sort of teed up at this point. So, thank you Nikki and Sydney. Hi, I am Cindy Shockley, and I am a geotechnical project manager with Atlas Technical Consultants based in Boise, Idaho.

Um, and I've been with Atlas for almost two years. Um, and so as a very early career professional, I am hoping to be able to expand my network and connect with more women in the industry, um, to just learn from other people who have more experience, uh, and hopefully just foster, um, my growth learning from other people.

And thank you for joining us Sydney. Uh, your perspective is invaluable as, uh, looks like we all have quite a bit of [00:11:00] experience here. And so, um, you will help us keep. Grounded in the younger generations. And that's actually one of the topics we were gonna talk to is a little bit of communication between the, the generations.

So that's great. Um, alright, well let's talk sort of about, uh, we're gonna go through a few topics and we'll have a few sort of questions for each topic. And, uh, we'll have a volunteer to kind of, um, lend their thoughts to their, you know, what they're thinking, what we're gonna talk about, you know, our vision and purpose as this group.

Uh, how important collaboration and support is what we're hoping for, to learn and to grow professionally from this group. Networking and visibility, which I think networking is, is something that keeps coming up in everybody's, um. Ideas of what they wanna get outta the group. Empowerment and leadership.

Uh, you know, we're, we're all empowered and we all feel like we're leaders, but you know that when you've got somebody to lean on, you can [00:12:00] feel even more empowered. Uh, what we're hoping the benefits and the impact of this group will be. And then sort of looking ahead, what, what do we hope this group might be, uh, a few years down the road?

So I'm gonna start out. You know, with this question of, uh, what inspired the creation of this group and, you know, how does it align with the GGBA mission? Well, I told you this story really quickly of how the group started and, you know, the gbas mission, though I don't have it memorized, um, is just helping companies be good businesses.

And part of being a good business is having a diverse workforce and a workforce that feels, uh, supported and empowered. And so I think that's what we're hoping to provide here is a lot of support and empowerment for the women in our GBA member firms. Um, so. We talk about this a lot, and Nikki brought up that [00:13:00] there are a lot of women's groups in the engineering profession.

So there's quite a few initiatives that we've already thought of, and one is a mentorship program to put mentors and mentees together, which was again, one of the first ideas and thoughts that that. The women had that started in this group. We thought it would be really helpful to have a bit of an employer retention playbook for employees that have women that are returning into the workforce or new women in the workforce.

Uh, all kinds of things like, you know, um, flexible work hours as your, uh, a mo a mother navigating this job, you know, job site specific needs as a, as a young mother. Um, inclusive language and communication, you know, all kinds of things that maybe your managers and your groups have fantastic intentions but maybe don't know how to speak clearly.

And, [00:14:00] um. Offensively in certain cases. So it's a playbook. It's, it's it's help that we're hoping to provide. So, uh, we're hoping to do some podcasts like this. We're hoping to bring in some speakers, um, that can speak to many of the topics that we're, we're already thinking we would like to hear about. And I bet there's a lot of women out there in the industry, as many of us have already been involved in, in women in the engineering professions, panels.

I know Catherine has, I know I have, I'm sure probably many of us have. And so though having them come speak to us, uh, we also wanna. Help collaborate, uh, outreach in schools, which I know many people already do a ton of that. But we are hoping to give tools to our members to feel confident and excited about going out and, um, speaking to schools and wherever they feel like they, they wanna, uh, spread the word.

And then perhaps we can, [00:15:00] um, once we get this going, we can start some awards and scholarships for women to come to a GBA conference that maybe their employer didn't want to support. Maybe a younger, uh, person coming to a GBA conference or something like that. So those are the ideas that we have flowing already.

Uh, just as some background for our listeners. And, you know, I wanna ask this question of the panel. How, how do these initiatives, how do you think they address any current gaps in the industry? I'll kick it off. I think that, um. I think that it's going to create a community where women still experience isolation.

So as far as women have come in the industry and they really have, um, there's still those instances where you are the only women woman on the job site or you're the only woman in a meeting, or you're the only woman in leadership for that matter. [00:16:00] And, um, you know, the group I think will be able to fill a gap around some of those things that are most needed.

The mentorship, the shared learning, um, and the honest conversations. Um. That don't always exist in these kind of individual firms, that we can come together, um, from different firms and kind of form this collective group that, that makes it very different than what you could do individually and, and especially, you know, some of our smaller firms that don't have the diversity of the larger firms.

Like there's really power in the GBA and the firms that are part of it. Yeah. Just to go back to what Dory was saying about using the resources that GBA is known best for, um, one of the things that GBA has is best practices [00:17:00] and being able to use kind of the best practices as a shared knowledge base of things like.

The way that maternity leave should function or the way that, um, job site accessibility should function, those types of things can be baked into a best practice. Like you're saying, Dory, coming from large firms all the way down to one person operations and using what everybody knows works and does not work.

Um, for the benefit of all, I think it's great. I think the nice thing about GBA is everyone is always so willing and open to share, right? Like outside of GBA, we may be competitors to some extent, right? Depending on where we're at and what companies. But within GBA, like we're all friends and we're there to help better each other and better the industry, which I think makes this group unique as well because there's, there's not [00:18:00] a little bit of those barriers, right?

Because everyone kind of drops 'em. And it really can be an open discussion of, oh, well what do you do? What does your company do? What does yours do? And kind of being able to see what works and what doesn't work and be able to have those open conversations without the fear of, oh, they're the competitor, which is, I, it's a really nice environment to be in.

Yeah, that's, GBA is great for that in so many ways, Catherine. Some of the, looking back, some of the most meaningful growth in my career and my personal life has been going through really tough things, right? Coming out stronger on the other side and, um, having, whether it's a, a peer conversation, um, like Carrie, you and I going out and grabbing a quick bite 'cause we live near each other, or it's a more formal mentoring program, but, but being able to have those honest exchanges of being a little bit vulnerable, but in a safe place so you can figure out how do I help solve this?

You have to admit that there's a, a problem or a challenge in front of you and walk [00:19:00] away with that increase of confidence and skills and ideas and thinking outside the box. Uh, and I'm, I'm really looking forward to that the most. But I wanna be to share that with as wide of a group as we can in a safe place where people can, um, express those concerns, whether it's at their firm or just, oh, you've also had this challenge at another firm and you're not alone and you're not trying to figure it out by yourself, and you have some space.

Space for that mentoring and growth. I, I always think back, I have a couple of sort of follow on questions, similar questions, but I always think back to A-A-G-B-A conference that I had in Nashville, and it was the first meeting also of an emerging leaders group. And I, coming from California, thought that everything was super hunky dory and that, um, you know, being a woman in the industry was just not even an, uh, a thought, not even an issue, speaking to people from different geographies in the United States, I made that very clear to me that that was not the case at all and it.[00:20:00] 

Opened my eyes to how isolated I was in my thinking that there weren't these issues out there anymore and that everything was great. And I, and boy did it open my eyes. So I think the gap that this group could fill is for women that maybe feel to be in a, a geography where they're not feeling as empowered, maybe as, as, um, some of the geographies.

Um, so the couple follow on questions I guess I think we kind of already answered, which is why is it important to have a dedicated space for women? Uh, you know, as, as well-meaning and as amazing as the men in our professional lives are, they haven't gone through the same things we have. And so I think that's, that's really important.

Um, does anybody have a, uh, any follow up to that? Why a dedicated space for just us is, is important? Yes, Sydnee, go ahead. Um, well for our individual firms, you know, we may be one of only a handful of women in our [00:21:00] groups and teams, so having a structured space where we can just connect with so many more women here from more perspectives, different firms, um, really creates a lot more opportunities, uh, for just growth in our professions, understandings of our industries, hearing from other people's experiences.

And so I think that this is just a good place for connection overall when our individual firms may not quite have those opportunities. I think you don't know what you don't know. Mm-hmm. If you are going along thinking that things are normal and then you hear from somebody else that it could be.

Different or more or better. Um, that's valuable information, uh, that can be shared and brought back. And just that just like we don't know what we don't know. Our managers or the leadership teams at our firms may not know what they don't know, um, if they've never had to deal with it before. So [00:22:00] that shared information is just so valuable.

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Uh, do you, do you think that this group will create some unique opportunities, um, for women professionals that, that they wouldn't have had if they hadn't joined this group? I mean, I, I think to me the greatest unique opportunity is what we've just been talking about. These were all follow on questions that sort of original question.

But, um, is, is just to have a space where you can say things that you would not say to your group at large at work because there. They might suck, uh, or they might be scary or, um, you know, you just don't feel comfortable. And so here we've already had some really great conversations, especially of those of us with a bit more experience, may have experienced some interesting situations out in the field, you know, 30 years ago that hopefully aren't as pervasive as they as they were.

[00:23:00] Um, but it could be very interesting going a fe being a female and being the only female out on a job site. And, um, so being able to share those experiences, I think that's unique. It's the kind of thing you could say to your friend and be like, you'll never guess what happened to me today. But being able to share that in a group like this and have people, um, be able to provide you support and similar stories and just make you feel like you're, you're not the only one.

So there were a lot of raised hands, uh, cath Catherine. I think the advantage in addition to the large group is making some one-on-one connections. So maybe I have something that I don't wanna share here, but story, maybe I'll give you a call about, hey, what's some of the challenge with stepping away from the technical and embracing the business side?

And maybe we'll see each other at event and you'll have a connection and that event will go better because you'll know somebody there. So it's big group, but also some one-on-one or one to three small group conversations that I think will carry with us in [00:24:00] our careers too. That is such a great point.

And I've already had individuals reach out on the side saying, Hey, can you send me the thing you know that we talked about? So that, that's a great, great point. Sydney. Um, I think the unique opportunity of having a network and a support system already in place is that it will encourage me to take on roles or projects or challenges that I might ordinarily not have gone for if I felt like I wasn't gonna have a support system.

Um, and this group can be more of a support. I think something that's unique about this group is the leadership and the business side of things. Um, the mentorship from a business leader standpoint is something that you may not have access to another woman who has gone through something similar or has the role that you want someday.

Um, [00:25:00] and so being able to have that network available, especially to the younger generations, I think is really valuable. That, that's a great point. And what a great way to bring it back to the GBA because that's what the GBA is all about. So, um, yeah, when do you, when do you get to talk to a woman that is the president of her company?

You know, you, you have that at the GBA, so that's really, really fantastic. Alright, so let's, let's talk a little bit about collaboration and support. So, um, know Sydney, you actually just kind of brought this up, but you know, the, the primary question here is how will collaboration within the group help women tackle challenges in their Geoprofessional careers?

And, and Sydney already brought something up with that. And, and, you know, the next follow on question is maybe can you share a personal story of how peer support made a difference to you in your, in your career thus far, Liz? Yeah. I mean, some of the friendships I've [00:26:00] made through GBA and other females in particular.

Has made it so like when going through experiences, um, I knew I had somebody else that I could reach out to that maybe similar position, right? Like I had some leadership issues, uh, with an employee at one point in time and it was very difficult for me both as a leader, but, but personally as well because I was friends with this person and had been for many, many years outside of work.

And then there were some, there were some issues and stuff that needed to be dealt with and it was nice that I had those established relationships with other females as well, through GBA that I was unable to reach out and be like, Hey, this is my situation. This is what I'm going on. Like. What do you think?

What advice do you have for me? Right? And, and it was nice to be able to, to have that connection and that person that, hey, I can reach out to, Hey, I know that they're in a leadership position. Maybe they've been through something, or just that they're an outside perspective, [00:27:00] right? And they can maybe ask me questions that I didn't think about because I'm just so involved and so down in the weeds.

Uh, so it, it's, it's nice to, I didn't even have to think about it. I was like, oh, I know who I can call. I knew that I had somebody there that I could just reach out to, which was very reassuring. And I think it, it helped me through the situation, but it helped me grow as a leader as well. Yeah. Um, not to totally plug in-person GBA stuff, but I can't count the number of times that Liz and I have had little sidebars during a GBA conference be like, you know what I'm doing, this thing is happening right now.

How have you been dealing with whatever? And it's just been like, it's been so great. It's been so valuable for me for sure. All these years. Um, so thank you Liz and Dorrie. It's great. Yeah, I agree with you guys. The, I've been there too. Feeling is really amazing. But I think what's great about this group is having people at all different levels.

And so, you know, [00:28:00] you may have somebody who's been there, done that, that you could reach out and say, Hey, did Jeff. Has this ever happened to you? How did you address this? But you might have a peer that who may be having the same thing happening to them at the same time, and so kind of being able to connect with either peers or people who've been there and done that, it helps.

Shape the way that you could address it. And you may not do it the same way that somebody else did, but you do have access to that information. That helps kind of frame how you address a problem moving forward, which is kind of an amazing thing to be able to, it's, it's not like you can look up in a handbook how you kind of, mm-hmm.

Take care of things or how you address something that's happening in your life. You just can't. And it's almost like a real time playbook on how people have addressed certain things or [00:29:00] how might people might think about certain things that can help you move things forward in your own career. I can't tell you the number of times I've already, just in the three, uh, group meetings we've had for the GWG that I've shared with other people, just from the introductory, um, you know, summarize your experience as a Geoprofessional woman in one word or a phrase.

And the amount of conversation that has come out of those has just been so amazing and so interesting, again, to see how people, 'cause it ends up going into a deeper conversation, how people deal with, uh, being a Geoprofessional. It's, it's just been so amazing. Just these, you know, it's just an intro question, but it, it.

They've stuck with me so much. And so it's been, uh, and that's peer support, right? That's, that's us just talking to each other. So that, I think it's been incredible. And a, a follow on question to that is, you know, we talked about mentorship and what do you think, [00:30:00] um, mentorship will play a role in strengthening, strengthening this community, which would be the, you know, the GBA Geof women being able to have a mentor that you can reach out to, or a mentee that you can help in the future.

You know, how do you think that strengthens this, this community? And I have a few ideas, but I'd love to hear yours. I think, um, just think of how. How much more relaxed, uh, in-person meetings and meetings like this with, with this group, with the GWG will become, as people start to have those really deep offline conversations.

So say you, um, you know, Liz will be mentoring Sydney perhaps, or something like that, that connectivity that you've created will, I think create, um, just a, an incredibly relaxed environment where people can feel more and more free to, [00:31:00] um, open up and share their experiences and provide their experiences.

Or for the women that aren't comfortable doing that publicly, knowing that they can reach out to somebody as a mentor and start that conversation and where, where they can, um, safely and a one-on-one have these really great conversations. Um, so that's, that's my thoughts, Nikki. I think often civil engineering is known as a, um, good old boys club and I think the idea of mentorship can reframe it.

So it's not just a good old boys club anymore. It can be a good old girls club too. Yeah, that's right. Uh, really briefly about that though is that, um, that's one of the things we wanna talk about is not make it a good old girls club because, uh, and I brought this up before where my daughter will tell me, you, you can't say those things, mom.

What am I even saying? [00:32:00] I don't even know. But, you know, so it's really great to have, uh, the broad range of inputs that, that we can, that we can have. So that's great. Catherine, you had a thought. Thanks Carrie. Uh, Shannon and Wilson, we were doing something similar where we're starting a technical women's group.

And one of the great things that I'd love to see here too, uh, we're learning with their younger groups. Issues and what their challenges are. My path is not their path. Um, and asking that question, and Nikki, you mentioned earlier, we don't know what we don't know, but being able to bring that up. And so providing those tools that they're looking for.

Is it public speaking? Is it how to ask for a raise? Is it how to volunteer for a technical society? Is it how to do business development? But finding out what the tools are that the women in GBA are looking for and then filling that need. Yeah. And if we're not asking the question, we'll never know what's missing.

Yeah, [00:33:00] that is a great segue to our next sort of, um, topic, set of topics, which is learning and professional growth. So, um, I'm just gonna put this out here. You know, I mentioned, uh, some of the initiatives that we've sort of talked about in previous groups, but what kind of workshops, seminars, learning opportunities would you like to see offered here?

Liz? I think kind of piggybacking on what Catherine and Nikki had said of, um, how do I wanna put it? Like hearing from the younger generation, like giving them room to speak into voice, what. What it is that they want, right? We're not necessarily always the best at, you know, being like, well what, what do you need?

What would help you? But giving them that room to, to be able to speak, right? And for us to be able to, how can we help you better? How can we help you in your career? Right? Like you guys said, we don't know what we don't know, [00:34:00] so, but it has to be a space where they are comfortable to be able to tell us, right?

Because they may really have some really phenomenal ideas, but maybe they're, you know, shy or whatever the case may be and don't want to share it. Um, so I think being able to have them be able to help us as much as the older individuals can help, the younger it goes, I see that it, it goes both ways and it needs to be an environment where it can go both ways.

Absolutely. I love that. Yeah. We, we had said in one of the first meetings, you know, creating a playbook, what women want, but maybe we should have, you know, what Gen Z wants, you know, what Gen Alpha wants, um, what the millennials want. You know, really delving into those generational differences, which do they seem to be getting bigger just because of technology?

Um, but I think that's, it's a, what a great, um, space to talk about. Talk about those kind of things. Dorie, did you raise your hand? Who raised their hand? Somebody did. Okay. [00:35:00] Just wanna make sure. Any other ideas? I know we put a lot of initiatives out there, but I think they'll come organically as we keep talking.

Yeah. Yeah. I think it really has to grow from the group, right? What the group wants and needs. And I, I think, um, you know, you have different levels who want different things, but we're all learning from each other. And I, I think that's the most important thing. It's not. That, you know, the younger people are learning from the older people all the time.

Right? I, I learn as much from a mentoring relationship as the people that I mentor, and I value those relationships incredibly, um, because it really is a two-way street. And so I think the beauty of this is, is the expectation is that everybody who is part of this group is a contributing member. What they think and what they wanna know is incredibly important.

Um, and we model the group after those [00:36:00] wants and needs and desires to help kind of move forward the collective. Right. I think a question that's ever present in the industry right now is about retention. Um mm-hmm. Employee retention is a huge talking point, and I think if this group can have a focus on what retention looks like specifically for women, because.

That rate is very different. Um, I think that it would be really value, valuable information. Yeah. Uh, we're gonna talk metrics a little bit at the end, but that's 100% and you see it all the time. You've seen it in, there was a Geo Strata article a while back and, um, that the rate of retention for women is just so low after they start raising a family because nobody knows how to, not nobody, but it's hard to figure out how to, how to create that balance.

And so I think a group like this could, could really help Sydney.

Um, I'm not entirely [00:37:00] sure what a workshop for this topic would look like, but something that I'm very interesting in is navigating, um, career growth and opportunities. I'm not entirely sure what path I wanna take with my career if I wanna end up going into management or if I wanna stay more on the technical side of things.

So hearing from people who have taken different journeys throughout this industry, um, I feel like would be beneficial to me for figuring out what I want to do and how to go about doing something if I'm interested in taking a different path. I think that could even be just whole, um, sessions. You know, we, we meet.

Monthly, uh, no. Yes, monthly. And, um, we could just once a month have someone talk for 20, 30 minutes on that. I've, um, I speak at universities just to introduce civil students to geotechnical engineering, but I start the first five [00:38:00] minutes at least of the, um, presentation on my journey because it's so, it looks like a, you know, a, um, pinball machine.

I'm just like, I was kind of all over the place 'cause I, I didn't know what I wanted to do and so I think that's apparently, um, people enjoy hearing that because who really knows? Maybe Catherine knows 'cause she has always had her path planned out very well, but. Mine was not. And so I think that's really encouraging for people to be like, okay, it's okay.

I don't have to have this all figured out. So, um, that's really cool. I remember my dad, he was a pilot and he'd always say, I wonder what I'm gonna do with do once I, um, grow up. Because he loved flying so much that he was like, you know what, what am I gonna do? Because this is, this isn't work. So you're never too, it's never too late to kind of keep working on your path is, is my point.

So, any other thoughts on that? I say it all the time, Carrie. I wonder what I'm gonna be when I grow up. Yeah, yeah. I love [00:39:00] figuring it out. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, I think this one's fairly self-explanatory. Um, but, uh, you know, networking and visibility, how will networking events, so I'm thinking in person and that's why I really wanna encourage people in this group to try to come to either the, um, fall leadership, um.

Program that we always have in Denver or the annual meeting. Um, but how do you think networking, um, events help women build stronger professional connections and let's just say not on teams, uh, but, but in person because those are the much rarer opportunities. I think it's fairly self-explanatory, but if anybody has any thoughts, don't worry.

Go ahead. I mean, it's just fun, right? Yeah. So every once in a while we get to have some fun and, and one of the things that's nice about having a group that we meet virtually and then we come together when we're not [00:40:00] virtual is it's low pressure. We've talked to each other. We kind of have formed these relationships.

Even in the virtual world, you do, and it's so much easier to have a conversation with people when you see them in the real world and the GPA. Conferences and activities are just great. They're super good learning experiences. They're fun, they're low pressure, and it's, it's just a great opportunity for people to continue on what we've done virtually.

I love it. That was a great way to put it. Obvious, but, um, super, super important. It's fun. Yeah. Who doesn wanna have more fun, right? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Sydney, go ahead. Um, virtual meetings I feel like can feel so formal and very kind of removed, and it can be a little harder to like really get to know people and form connections, um, through a screen.

And so an in-person [00:41:00] group, um. Can just help you get to know people a lot better. So if you have something in your career that you wanna talk to someone about, you can think, oh, I remember when I met someone at the conference and they were telling me this story. I'm gonna reach out to them to learn more about it.

Tell 'em about what I'm going through. I'm a hugger too, so I love hugging people when I feel in person. Nikki, uh, this group seems so foundationally based on trust and it's really hard to build trust online. Um, that's something that is much easier to do in person. Uh, and I think those in-person events just really give you an opportunity to open up in a more intimate way.

Um, telling stories that you may not even think to tell when you're on a computer. Yeah, exactly. That's awesome. I totally agree, Liz. And I think it's just more natural in person. I think even Carrie, between you and me, [00:42:00] I think the conversations we have at conferences just they're more calm, they're more natural, right?

Like conversations between us than, not that we don't have great conversations when we're not together in person, but it really is just, it's a different, it's a different level of connectivity. You know, when you're standing there face to face, right? Give each other a hug, whatever the case may be is it's just different than we're gonna shoot you a message in teams or, you know what I mean?

Or something like this. So just that the one-on-one, the actual seeing each other is, is really important. Yeah, super important. Um, why do you think visibility for women's contributions is so critical? And this is where I get uncomfortable because I'm like, oh, you know why? You know, why, why should we be talking about the fact that we're women?

Isn't it just that we're engineers? But why is it critical that it's like, no, this is a woman's contribution? Catherine, thanks [00:43:00] Carrie. I think it's really important because culturally we're trying to take up less space and we're trained to be more humble. We're trained to apologize instead of saying thank you and accepting that grace of a compliment.

And so giving that environment here and encouraging others to do so is just phenomenal. I think we've gone through the exercise here of a shout out for what's been going really well. Let's celebrate together. And not only does that build network, but it builds energy and enthusiasm and success breeds success.

So I hope we as a industry. Women in this industry learn to take on that, um, credit where credit is earned and deserved, and step up and talk about those accomplishment accomplishments and be seen and not be in the backseat. Yeah. Yeah. I, I know, I'm sure you've all experienced this, but you get in a room full of men and they're super eager to be heard.

You know, they just wanna, they're talking, talking, and then the other guy's [00:44:00] talking, talking, talking. And I'll just sit quietly, you know, and let them do all they're, they're talking and they're competing until, um, they finally kind of talk to themselves out, and then they're like. What do you think, Carrie?

You know, they finally are just like, okay, I got in all my points and, and I, I let them do that. But I think then they listen once they've had their chance and they really want to hear a female's point of view. Um, and I think they, they've learned that it is a really important point of view and so you just sort of take that miniature, um, just, you know, a few people in a room and make that in, into a conference.

And you hearing the women in the room is, is, is really, really important and valued. I wanna add on to that too. It's important that we make space for each other. So if we're in an environment and we haven't heard from Nikki and I have that opportunity to open up the floor. Nikki, I know you really have a great [00:45:00] handle on this subject.

I'd love to hear your opinion on that and making space for each other in a very positive way. Yeah. And women tend to be a little bit more empathetic and can read the room a little bit more and see people's faces and see that somebody's not talking, whatever. So I, I, I agree. Nikki, what were you gonna say?

Well, it's interesting that Catherine said that because my point was going to be that we've been, we're now provided with a seat at the table. And that's wonderful. And to continue to provide more seats at the table for more women is very valuable. But it's also what you do with that seat. And like you said, Carrie, being able to, um, you know, maximize the use of your voice.

And like Catherine had said, um, being able to take ownership for what you deserve is very valuable. Um, and seeing people do that allows you to know that it's okay [00:46:00] and that it's more than okay, it's what it should be. Yeah. What a fantastic segue. I think you've done this twice now, Nikki, but the next, uh, topic I wanted to talk about was empowerment and leadership.

So, you know, so what barriers, um, to leadership do women often face, and I'm sure we could have an entire podcast about this and maybe we will, but maybe just some salient points about what barriers are still there because you're a woman, Liz. I guess maybe a little bit of a story is like coming, coming up, um, of you're, you're looking for leadership, you're looking for growth, but oh, you have to wait until soandso retires before, right?

That there, there's that opportunity, but then you hit a point and I remember, uh, um. Oh, getting pregnant with my first child and well, now what is that going to do to my path? Like, you know what I mean? I'm gonna, I'm gonna have a baby. I've wanted this baby for so long, and [00:47:00] now I need to take time off. And then coming back as a new mom, that's a completely different experience.

Right? But then it's, you're still navigating, right? You still have those professional desires. Right. But it's, it's just different. And then, like we've talked about of maybe, maybe the leadership doesn't know how to handle that or how to be supportive or even how to accept that you could be in leadership even though you're a mom and you have to go take the kids to their doctor's appointment or whatever, whatever the case may be.

Um, it just, it can feel overwhelming. From a woman's perspective, like even, I mean, I had a really great mentor, but it was still overwhelming. You, you know what I mean? And so it feels like an obstacle, whether it's perceived or real, like there's probably a little bit of both in there. Um, but to me, I felt that that was a big obstacle of, Hey, how do I navigate it?

And then, oh, now I've had kids. It, it just feels like an [00:48:00] even bigger obstacle then, um, in that path. Yeah, motherhood and the fact that women are expected to do all the things and do them well. Sydney, what's your.

Um, well, I was gonna bring that up too, the question of the big, if having a family, having kids and how to balance that, um, with a very demanding career. Um, and also I think you, Carrie, you were talking about how when you're in a room with all men and they can be talking and stuff and you're kind of, you know, sitting there a little more quietly, I feel like that can be a barrier in and of itself, that men tend to be a lot more vocal in a room.

And I feel like women, at least for myself, you know, can kind of feel a little more pushed to the side in those situations. And so that can just create, you know, opportunities go to maybe who's more vocal, who's creating more noise. And so. [00:49:00] Either need to be encouraged to make more noise, ask for more opportunities, or, um, just create awareness.

That sounds like another great topic. You know, navigating that, navigating how to be sure that you're heard in every conversation in, in your own natural way. Some people maybe are very, um, confident in that kind of situation, and some people are like, I have a lot to say, but I'm, you know, not quite as confident about saying it.

So I think that's, that's fantastic. Cindy Dory, how about you? I think that, um, besides a professional and personal balancing, I think, um, women are often underestimated, um, for what they do. And I also think, and I think a lot of these problems are not just women's problems, but maybe, you know, we're felt more so because there are so many less women in our industry, but also that imposter syndrome.

And I [00:50:00] know that men get it too, right? But it is a, it's a real thing. Um, and I think. Navigating through that is, it's a real thing in those middle years where you're navigating through, am I, am I really doing this? Or is this really going well? How's this going? Um, I think it is helpful to kind of share those experiences.

And I know that everybody has 'em, right? It's not just women, but I do think it's helpful to talk about those. Um, I heard something really helpful the other day that said, if you're feeling imposter syndrome, it means that you're growing, you're pushing yourself into an area that's uncomfortable for you.

And so it's actually a good thing. I, I thought that was a fantastic perspective, Catherine. Yeah. One of the barriers I've seen, it's never a lack of capability. It is always confidence or understanding how to use my network and, and ask for what I want. And so helping gain that [00:51:00] confidence and understanding how to lay out that path.

And there's a lot of studies that have shown women are judged on what they have done, not what they can't do, and need to flip that conversation to, I've done these things and look what else I can do, what, what I can do if I'm given this opportunity. Um, opport. And I think that's one of the biggest barriers, Carrie, is the, the perception, but then also that self-advocacy as well.

Yeah. Yeah. And just think of a couple of things. How, how you're perceived, maybe if you're a mother and you're working part-time, um, and so people perceive you as not being as available or as as useful or, uh, and then also it does limit your ability to do things. And so you've got all this tremendous potential, but maybe you've spent, you know, the last 10 years raising kids or being part-time and you haven't gotten to experience that.

So back around to how Liz had started. Go ahead, Liz. One of the things that, [00:52:00] that I have learned that I think could be better, better portrayed is how much being a parent has helped me be a leader, but then also how much a leader has helped me to be a parent. Like, and how, how many times I've been like, oh, like, like putting that connection together.

And I think helping others to understand that as well of, Hey, being a parent does doesn't mean that, oh, you're only there part-time or, or whatever. I mean, those experiences as being a parent helps you to be a better leader. And kind of some of those things I've learned is being a leader sometimes helps me be a better parent and how much it can go together.

And I don't think that that's really discussed much for pe. Like I don't think, yeah, people really fully understand that. Yeah, I think that is 100% true. It's, it's, it's so true. It's, it's great. Um, although I find myself mothering people more and more as the years go by and I have to stomp myself. Um, so I [00:53:00] have a another, oh, sorry, Dory, go ahead.

Did you have a follow on thought? Oh, I think my, I think my hand is up from previous. Oh, okay. No worries. But I do agree a hundred percent with Liz on, um, parenting helps you be a better leader. And it's amazing the amount of things that you learn, um, not only from raising your kids, but from interacting with that community.

Um. It has so many leadership opportunities that are directly translatable to leadership in a professional environment. It's absolutely amazing. I'll never forget when I ran the PTO at my kids school. I was president of the PTO for two years and it was the most eyeopening, intensive leadership experience I ever had with real stakeholders and money and all those kind of things.

Um, and so like, it's just legit [00:54:00] really interesting that the kind of segue in between those two worlds. Yeah, I was gonna say anybody PTA. Yep. We've been been there. Yeah. Katherine? I think two things that I've heard that I wanna make sure we mention is that, um, a lot of men have the same challenges. Men are taking a bigger role and their fathers and grandfathers had and have.

A challenge in front of them. And for a lot of folks, parenthood may not be in their plan either, and this group is certainly not gonna

success in a variety of ways and. Absolutely. Yeah, I was gonna say fur babies are included because it seems to be the new baby and, and they can be a huge challenge. So, yeah. That's fantastic. Um, this is sort of an exciting follow up question to that, but how do you think, um, empowerment within this group could translate [00:55:00] into broader industry change?

I mean big, you know, goals, but how, how can we make a difference in the broader industry, um, even outside of the GBAI? I'm thinking just, you know, if we put out, uh, you know, Nikki said a best practice, absolutely, but that tends to be within. The GBA, but I think just the things that we learn here or feel empowered to do here will go out into the community and go do talks and go do presentations and go to schools and um, you know, just continue outside of this volunteering we're doing right now.

'cause we're volunteering our lunch hour or whatever it is in the middle of our day. But falling in, uh, tearing into the greater community and kind of spreading, you know, spreading the word I think is just a really simple, uh, way to translate this into the, the broader industry. But what, what do you think Joy?

I mean, we're helping [00:56:00] people learn and grow in all different ways by having these conversations. Um, and, and that is going to translate back into the community. Um, and, and it's not only going to be for women, because women are gonna go back from this group and they're gonna touch men and they're gonna share information.

They're gonna feel like. Empowered to share in a different way, to speak up, to share their opinion. And it is, it's like a snowball effect being heard. I love it. I think, and we'll see. Right? We'll see what comes out of it. We've had three meetings, um, and I haven't had my self together very well. From most of the meetings.

I finally got organized and put together a spreadsheet so we can really start getting stuff together. But it's been so fun just talking honestly in the, in the first meeting. So, um, speaking of you been fantastic. I don't want you to mention the contributions that you've made. Thank you. You've done a [00:57:00] great job of pulling this together and keeping this going forward.

Thank you. Thank you. Well, I appreciate it. And I, I did laugh at myself, but I totally used copilot to help me, um, you know, put together, okay, here's all of our ideas. Now spit it out into something that I can use. And it, it really, really was great. There's my AI plug. Um, yeah, but there's technology needed for using the tools and the resources around us, and I think one of the things that, that is gonna be in part for this group to know is that no one has done everything.

They've done by themselves. Yeah. They've used some sort of tool, whether it's an AI tool, they've used some sort of team, they've used some sort of mentor. And so I, I, I don't think we ever need to apologize for using the tools and the resources that are available to us. This is a quiz, this is life. Right.

And, and that's how you get better at it. So you go care, you use what's available to [00:58:00] you. Yeah. Thank you. That's another, uh, thing that most women need to work on, as Catherine said, is apologizing, constantly apologizing for yourself when you don't need to. And I definitely am one of those people. It's silly, but um, those are skill.

That's another skill we can help each other work on. Um, something that. The first group of women. I actually ran this by a sort of a, you know, a steering committee, uh, pilot, you know, group of women in the very beginning. And Catherine was part of that. But thinking big picture, what, what should we be looking to get out of this?

And so many women said, uh, we need metrics. We need to be able to say what the benefits are of this. We need to measure them and we need to, you know, um, put them out there so everybody can see. And so, um, I think, you know, we kind of talked a lot about what personal and professional benefits do participants gain from joining.

Does anybody else have any more [00:59:00] comments on that? Um, because I feel like we covered that pretty well. Um. But I think just maybe one of a, just an easy conversation that we could have and one of the, um, benefits that we could measure is this diverse perspective. So how, how do you think, like, we've talked a lot about, uh, fostering diverse perspectives and, and how much the younger generation has to teach the older generation and vice versa.

But how, how do you think that would, that can strengthen the industry because we're, we're here to strengthen ourselves, but ob you know, in the end, what we talked about in the very beginning was retention, you know, for our companies, that keeping us happy, keeps us retained. And so what do you think that, you know, fostering these conversations and talking about diverse perspectives and things like that can strengthen the geof industry?

Does anybody have any ahas on that? Go ahead, Liz. I think part of it [01:00:00] is keeping women in the industry, um, I mean a lot of, a lot of women end up end up leaving and not coming back. Right. Um, being able to, hey, there, there is a place for you here. And like some of the previous conversations we've had of what does that look like?

Is it management, is it technical? Is it some, is it business development? Is it something different? Right. But maybe still within the industry as a whole. And I think that's something that we can do is helping, helping to keep, keep us within the industry. And then knowing that there's different ways that you can go about doing that in different paths.

And there is a path for you. More than likely, it's just a matter of, maybe it's not that traditional path. Right. That's the most common in front of you there. There's other ways to go. Yeah. And I'm thinking of Nikki, of course. I mean, you know, her path has changed and I'm sure she didn't think it would or didn't know what was gonna happen.

And I'm looking at [01:01:00] Sydney thinking, you know, you've gotta be thinking, my gosh, I have a whole career in front of me. You know, where might it lead? It's really, really exciting. I mean, and, and what a great way to make people realize that. And we keep going back to Nikki saying, you don't know what you don't know.

It's so true. You get all of these great ideas and all of a sudden your mind is opened up to a whole new path you never even considered. So, but it, that all goes back Yes. To keeping women in the industry and keeping our, our voices heard wherever we are, whatever role we're fulfilling. Well, and your path can change too.

You may, you may start down one path and think that that's what you like and what you wanna do and get partway down it and be like, Hmm, you know, that's not what I want. Right. But it's not as though it was a waste. 'cause there's still things that you learn from. But then you hit the point where it's like, oh, maybe I need to pivot.

Right. And knowing that it's, it's okay to do that, just 'cause you start down one path doesn't mean you're stuck down that path. Right. That you can still adjust. Yeah. [01:02:00] To, oh, maybe what I learned is that's not what I want. What, you know, and then taking that self-reflection of, oh, what is it that, what did I like previous?

Maybe I need to change and go more down in that direction. Yeah. And that it's okay to have those changes. And pivots, sydnee. I'm, I'm curious, you know, you're being the, the youngest of the group. Have you already done any pivots? Did you do any pivots in, in college? You thought you wanted to do something else and you, you found yourself in geotechnical engineering somehow?

Um, yeah. I feel like my undergrad experience was figuring out what. Adjacent to geology I wanted to end up in, and it wasn't until my senior year that I even really learned about the geotech industry, and I thought, that sounds really interesting and something that I want to be a part of and learn more about.

Um, but I felt a little late into my college experience in undergrad to just kind of jump into it. And so [01:03:00] that's what helped me make the decision to go to grad school is because I felt that would be a better place for me to learn more about the geotech industry. Um, and so then it was through grad school that I thought, yeah, I really enjoy this.

And, um. Ended up here. I, I love to tell the story that, you know, I'm a, I started out as a structural engineer and then I talked to, so this ties back, I talked to a friend of mine who I went to high school with. She went to Cal Poly and, uh, she became a geotechnical engineer and worked for a very, um, high profile geotechnical firm in San Francisco.

And I called her when I was getting a little bored with my structural engineering job, and she said, yeah, it's great. And so I started and she went on to get a, a master's degree at Berkeley. Had one kid worked a little bit more, had the second kid, and she never came back to the industry. And [01:04:00] so, you know, you just never know where your path is gonna take you.

But, but I wonder is had there been more resources for her back then, because this would've been 2002, 2004 or so? Uh. Ha maybe would she have continued, you know, in the industry, um, because I'm, I'm not sure how much support she had. So, um, it's, it's, it's exciting to think of all the ways you can go, but also what a difference we could make by just showing what those paths, paths may be.

Um, we are getting close to the end of our time, and so I just wanted to end with a, a look ahead and this could be total fantasy. Um, I've got two, two questions. You know, what do you think success looks like for this group? Could be in the first year, it could be five years from now, and, and what long-term impact do you hope this group will have?

Um, so if anybody doesn't have, okay, [01:05:00] Dory, you can go ahead and start. I think we've kind of talked about a lot of things that kind of. Come into this vision, right? We've talked about some best practices, documentation, we've talked about relationships, and I think long term relationships, we've talked about, um, you know, connections really is what we're, we're talking about.

And, and creating connections, um, across different age groups, across different companies, um, and just sharing of experiences. So I, I think that what we're talking about is genuine relationship building, um, through the group. Yeah, that's great. And Catherine. I think retention in the industry is important and it's huge.

Unfortunately, it's a lagging metric, and we're not gonna see that for years down the [01:06:00] road. So it's building those incremental changes, whether it's, um, a tool book or a playbook for companies to help retain staff or building networks, or it's knowing we have workshops that have been effective and that's gonna come from feedback.

And that there are women and men that come out of this, um, plan that we've sustained saying, I learned this at this group, and they really have a great understanding of how to build a stronger industry and that we explode with members. That that is what I hope comes out of this group. Yeah. I liking the explode, uh, with members and that, that could be a challenge.

And that's a challenge I would like to, to, um, deal with. We are, we have 40 already and there's plenty of people that have no idea we exist. And so, um, it's, I think it's been great and the more we talk about it, the more we'll get, you know, get the word out. Um, and I, I have two things to finish up with once we've heard everybody, but I've, I've got some BHAGs, so Liz, go ahead.

[01:07:00] So it's interesting right? You said 40 with, within our group, Carrie, I think back, you and I started attending GBA about the same time. Right. And I think back to then, and there were a small handful of women in GBA at that time, and I remember you were one of the first ones that I met. And it's just, it's, it's amazing to see how much it's changed and it's grown, you know, within the number of years that we've been in there.

So to me that's encouraging. We're already heading in the right direction. And so now we can run with that and continue to grow, um, and have it be a safe place. I love it. Thank you, Liz. Okay. Here's my big hairy, audacious goals. I've never liked the hairy part of that, but, um, but here's my big goals. So I think that we'll become so powerful that we will bring members to the GBA, just because we have a women's group that is, um, super valuable.

And then [01:08:00] I love the idea of when I was. Putting together stuff yesterday and it kept referencing, um, SWE or A SCE or whatever, as references for groups that have, you know, women that are in women engineering groups or that have women engineering groups. I want, you know, people two years from now looking for the same kind of thing and see G-B-A-G-W-G reference here for how to have a successful women's group.

So that's, that's my idea of success, that we just, um, you know, that it becomes almost like, how did we not have this before? And of course we have a women's group, why would we not, you know, as part of the GBA. So I think that's exciting. Any last thoughts before we wrap up? Nikki? Go ahead. I wanna build on a little bit, I think it.

Has the potential to be the place for females in leadership roles. Yeah. And I would love to be able to just have that known [01:09:00] broadly that GBA is where you come if you are part of an organization or maybe you own your own organization and you're looking to build your leadership skills amongst other like-minded individuals.

And I think that's where I would love to see this go. Yeah, that's fantastic. All. Well, thank you ladies. This has been so much fun. My heart gets filled all the way to the top every time I talk with you all. Um, thank you for taking time out of your day and for, you know, giving us your honest opinions and thoughts and to whoever's listening to this.

I hope that you are feeling excited and empowered, whether it's starting your own women's group or reaching out to the women that you have in your life, or the mentors you have in your life, and thanking them or, or just reaching out to them for advice. For coming and joining our group, and especially coming to the [01:10:00] GBA conference that's coming up in April.

We would absolutely love to see you. Thank you very much everybody. I appreciate it. Thank you for listening to this special episode of the GBA podcast. If you like what you heard, please subscribe to the channel to receive future episodes and discover more content brought to you by the Geof Business Association.