GeoHeroes - Ken Johnston === [00:00:00] Guy: welcome GeoHeroes listeners. I'm excited about our next guest today. Terrific guy great storyteller, and I'm really excited for this interview. Hello, Ken. You say introduce yourself and say hello to our audience. [00:00:11] Ken: Sure. Hello Guy. First off, I'd like to just start out by saying that I think these have been great so far. I've been listening to a bunch of them. I think you're doing a fantastic job, but I do wanna retitle my end because Geo Heroes doesn't fit with me. I'm just a regular guy. So I think this one should be called just a lucky guy who had the opportunity. Officer I retired three. [00:00:49] Guy: Thanks Ken. I will take your advice back to our editorial committee and see if they wanna retitle this or not. But I think we're gonna just stick with the working title for now. So Ken, GZA a is a big [00:01:00] company and CEO is a big job. Let's dig into a little bit about how you got to be there. [00:01:05] What did little Ken Johnston look like? Were you a good student? Where did you grow up? What your thinking? What, [00:01:11] Ken: I grew up in Quincy, Massachusetts. Quincy is the home of the first Dunking Donuts, the first Howard Johnsons, and actually there's two presidents that were born in Quincy. They're actually buried in Quincy right near the high school, John Adams and John Quincy Adams. I was an average student in high school. [00:01:29] I was more interested in sports. That said, it doesn't, by saying that doesn't mean I was a great athlete. I just played everything. I was just a, a regular, regular guy, but I loved sports more than I did school. And when it was time to go off to college, my, my dad was a Navy fighter pilot and he thought this great idea that I should go to the Naval Academy. I don't think I could spell Naval Academy, and when I applied, I didn't get in. So I ended up going to a place up in Vermont called [00:02:00] Norwich University. It is the nation's oldest private military school, and it's it was founded in 1819 and it's the birthplace of ROTC. So you live in a core cadets and all that stuff. [00:02:12] So I couldn't get into the real academy, so I ended up at Norwich University to make my father proud. And that's my. [00:02:21] Guy: We'll get into college in a little bit, but you know, growing up in high school, did you have summer jobs or a night job, or did you do anything to make money on the side? [00:02:29] Ken: I did. I actually, when I was very young, I was a a shoeshine boy. Believe it or not. I bet you we have no other people on these podcasts. I started out as a shoeshine boy on Saturdays, shining people's shoes at a shoe store, [00:02:43] and then The first real job I had was a male boy after school for AC company General Mills. And I met a guy that I'm still friendly with to this day is by the name of Bruce Lambrecht. He is, in my opinion, the best entrepreneur I've ever met, and that's kind of [00:03:00] where I got my entrepreneurial flair. Bruce is the guy that actually found the property where the Minnesota Twins newest ballpark is on. [00:03:10] He owned all that land and he pitched it to Minnesota for over 10 years and now the ballpark literally sits on his, on the land. He once owned. [00:03:19] Guy: So I have two questions for you. Back to the shoe shine question. How do your shoes look today? Are they, spit, shine, clean? [00:03:25] Ken: No. The old cobbler has the, the bad, bad heels. No, they're not. But I used to be able to shine a pretty good shoe, [00:03:33] Guy: Okay. Well, it's good to know if I ever need advice there. [00:03:36] Ken: it was funny. It was probably like 50 cents, 75 cents a shoe shine, you know what I mean? [00:03:40] Guy: And I imagine part of that was tips, right? So Bruce how did he go from working at General Mills in the mail room to selling property to the Minnesota twins, which presumably is in Minnesota? [00:03:55] Ken: As I mentioned, Bruce came out from Minnesota, he went to University of Minnesota. They sent him [00:04:00] out to Boston, to the office I was working in. They were the worst office in the company, and they sent Bruce out to straighten it out, and in a three short years, he turned it from being the worst office to the best office. He went back to Minnesota to work in the headquarters, and as he said to me, he was writing checks that were for four or $500,000, but it wasn't his money, so it didn't mean anything. So he quit and went down the entrepreneurial trail even though his whole family thought he lost his mind. So he walked out of a high, highfalutin career and started as an entrepreneur and he did all kinds of things, which I'll talk about later. [00:04:39] One of them was, he had mini storage warehouses before they were popular all over the country. And one of the major mini storage firms bought 'em all from them for [00:04:52] you digits. [00:04:53] Guy: Well, Bruce could be a future guest on GeoHeroes, perhaps. But I clearly, his best decision when he came out to Massachusetts or Vermont [00:05:00] was to hire Ken Johnston for getting that mail sorted. I'm sure that changed the fortunes of that office. So now you're in a private military college. [00:05:09] In Vermont. What was your field of study there? Was it just discipline or did you studying business or science or [00:05:14] Ken: Yeah, no, I was a business major at, at Norwich, and that's where the, probably the second influential person me is a professor named Frank Vanek, who's still there to this day. He was the computer science teacher and he pushed me to take a minor in computer science, which included taking math classes with all the engineers. [00:05:36] And I used to say to him, I can't get down there with the engineering students. And he said, oh, yes you can. And he pushed me in that direction and had the confidence in me to be able to do that. Now the funny part here is that. Bruce Lambert, I'm still friends with to this day. Frank Vanek is still at Norwich University. [00:05:54] He's Dr. Frank Vanek, and he just, he's writing a memoir and he's asked me to write [00:06:00] the preface of that book, [00:06:02] Guy: Oh, that's. [00:06:02] Ken: funny. You know, it's, it's kind of a thing that I still, I meet people and I remain friends with him forever. [00:06:08] Guy: What an honor. What an honor. Military school, does that, did that require military service or were you inclined towards military service? [00:06:14] Ken: It's about half the students go into the military. You know, I did not know. You live in a Corps of Cadets 24 hours a day. You're in uniform, you're marching, you're eating your meals. The whole works. But no, there was no commitment. Even though probably 60% of the students went into the military I didn't, I, I thought I was going to, and after living through that for four years, I said, okay, that's enough for my service. I wanna go out and make some money. [00:06:40] Guy: Did a young Ken Johnston need a military school to instill discipline, or are you naturally inclined that way? [00:06:45] Ken: My joke there is that if I went to school in Boston with all my friends, I'd probably be getting out in May. I went to Vermont. There was not a lot to do other than study, and I didn't have my a DD of going out on [00:07:00] the town every night. So yes, I probably did need it. [00:07:04] Guy: So still a big journey from military school business degree to CEO of GZA and GZA is a, a very large, well-respected firm. Tell us about your career journey there. [00:07:16] Ken: GA [00:07:17] Guy: or just, from, connect the dots from [00:07:19] Ken: Okay. Here's the first break I got in life is I got accepted into a financial management training program, like the one you hear about at ge. The GE training program is, they put you in a spot for a year and they just keep rotating you through and send you to grad school at night. I got a break and I got into a position at Sanders Associates, which became part of Lockheed, which became part of BAE Systems, and I was the first K Norwich student to ever get into that. I go into it and it's all Dartmouth people and all this, so again, I was over my skis. And I had a, I wasn't gonna outsmart 'em, I had to outwork 'em, you know what I mean? [00:07:56] So I started out in this financial management training [00:08:00] program and went through that. It was just another great break. Three years, three different assignments, and then sent me for my master's at night, you know, to get that going. And then from there I jumped onto GZA. Eight years later I started at GZA. [00:08:15] Guy: What attracted you to the position at GZA? [00:08:19] Ken: It was, I wanted to go back to Boston 'cause I was up in New Hampshire and it was just looking at the Boston Sunday Globe and seeing GZA, it's the old Goldberg Zuno and Associates, and I'll never forget it, going in and interviewing with Don Goldberg, going in and interviewing with Bill Zuno. And I was a young kid and I was nervous and I kept looking at Zuno going, how do you pronounce that? [00:08:40] Okay, Mr. Zeno, was tripping all over the place. I ended up getting a job there and I stayed for a couple years. I enjoyed GZA from the beginning, but that entrepreneurial bent I keep telling you about. Bruce Lambert calls and says, Ken, I'm doing more stuff with mini storage. You want to get in business with [00:09:00] me now? I did that, ran into the, was running mini storage warehouses all across the country. And then all of a sudden I was building a new house and I stopped at GZA one night, and the individual by the name of John Ears was gonna become the new president. He looks at me and goes, I want you back here with me. I need a right arm. And I left the mini storage business, went back to GZA for the second time. [00:09:26] Guy: Wait, before you leave that Ken, so what were you doing at the mini storage business? [00:09:30] Ken: We owned some of them , but we were mostly, it would be like someone like you guys saying, I'm gonna put a mini storage facility here, but I know nothing about the business. And we knew how to set it up. We'd go in and be a management consulting firm for them running it from A to Z, you know, hiring the employees. Software and everything to run the mini storage business because what you were getting at the time was just a bunch of financial investors saying, yeah, that's a good idea. Let's invest in that. Let's get into mini storage, but we don't know how to run 'em. [00:10:00] So we were teaching people how to run mini storage warehouses all across the country. [00:10:05] Guy: Wow, that's still a pretty big business. Everybody has [00:10:08] Ken: it, it, it's again, because it, it was, and then it went down a bit, and now it's back again. [00:10:14] Guy: So then you found your way back home to GZA [00:10:17] Ken: my way [00:10:17] Guy: and what was your role then when you came back? [00:10:19] Ken: I was the assistant director of operations, was the title, and it was basically, I was working for Johnny as the CEO. At the time, I'm one of the few people that have ever worked for every single CEO the company's ever had. I haven't worked for the current one, pat, even like Pat Sheehan in a way. [00:10:36] But when you go back to the, there's only been a handful, John Goldberg. You know, Len Seal, Andy Pay Jack, Bill Hadge, you know, all those people. I've, I've had the opportunity and the fortune to work for every single one of them, [00:10:50] and I've always just been just helping them out, you know, helping them out, helping them run the business. [00:10:55] Guy: what do you think they see in you, Ken? [00:10:59] Ken: I don't know. I guess [00:11:00] what I'd like to think they see in me, they always knew that I would give them a full day's work. I'd work very hard and that goes back to, probably the military upbringing and things like that. And I gave them everything I had every day with a lot of passion. [00:11:15] I think that's probably what they saw on me the other. If you ask me, my strength is that I seem to know a lot of people. I meet a lot of people. Luckily, I've got the fortune of like yourself, like all the people in the GBA meet people and I remain friendly with 'em. There isn't a week that goes by that I'm not still talking to somebody at the GBA, and that just seems to be my life. [00:11:37] Guy: That's a great segue into how did you get involved in GBA, I know you were with a geoprofessional firm at this point. [00:11:43] I assume you stumbled into a conference, but tell us that story. [00:11:45] Ken: I did Bill Hedge, who was the CEO, came back, well, he wasn't even the CEO at the time. He came back to me in 2008 and said, we need someone like you at the GBA. And we had two presidents in the past. We had, bill [00:12:00] Zuno was a president way back in the eighties, and another guy by the name of Steve Trudel way back in the eighties. [00:12:05] We kind of fell off for a while. Bill said, we need to get back involved. I want you to start going. So I went to my first meeting in 2008 and I came back. I went to every single section of that meeting. I came back and I said, that was great. I go, bill, I'm not an engineer like all these people. It was really cliquey. [00:12:24] Everybody knew everybody. I didn't know anybody. I'm never gonna break in with this group. He goes, good, go to the next one. I came back, same thing. I was very impressed with the content, but I did not, I wasn't breaking in with the people. 'cause everyone had been together for so many years. I kept going and going and going and next thing you know, it was like it's probably the single best thing outside of my work that I got involved in in my work career. [00:12:49] 42 years of working. I would have to say by far the GBA is the best by far external organization or thing I got involved in my career.[00:13:00] [00:13:00] Guy: Can you quantify that, Ken? What are the specific things that you see there that helped you in GBA? [00:13:06] Ken: I think it's, it goes, it all comes back to the people. You know, when you think about it, I've said many times Chrysler and Ford are not sitting in the same room talking about their problems. You know, they're not doing that. Everyone at GBA trusts each other more, you know, more than you can actually believe in the friendships that are formed. Are for life. You know, it's just, it, it's, there's just a brotherhood, a sisterhood there, whatever the right terminology is that I don't think you get anywhere else. And it was just, I just thought it was great. We worked hard, but we also had fun along the way. That's what makes that such a unique and great organization. [00:13:46] Guy: Somehow you you connected in and you went through the leadership track and became president. [00:13:52] Ken: Well, that's a funny story there too, guy. 'cause I never had any intentions on getting on the board or going up that track. Never [00:14:00] did. I used to go to every meeting, took it serious, met people, but I always stayed away from a little bit, you know, I didn't, did not step up. And then one day. Gordon Matherson and Steve Thorn grabbed me and said, Hey, we'd like you to consider the board. [00:14:13] And I'm like, ruh roh, and the next thing you know, it was I was all in for that. Then you get lucky, you get on the president tracker. You don't, you get some breaks here and there. And the next thing you know, I was, I was president from 20 to 21. [00:14:27] Guy: And you had a personal challenge around that time in your life, would you like to share that with us? [00:14:31] Ken: I did. Right around the same time we had two, two issues going on. We had COVID hitting and all of a sudden I came down with prostate cancer which was a curve ball that I wasn't ready for. It's kind of ironic in that. One of my passions is bike riding and this coming summer will be my 36th pan mass challenge, which is a bike ride from 192 mile bike ride from Sturbridge, mass to Provincetown, and I was riding it for cancer. Cancer, had [00:15:00] never struck anyone in. My family was raising all this money for cancer. Since then, my sister had breast cancer. Thank god she's okay. My dad died of bile duct cancer. My mother died of breast cancer. I was the last one remaining. And in 2019 I was diagnosed with prostate cancer. It was just something that came outta nowhere. Knock on wood, I'm good for the men out there. Just do yourself a favor and make sure you get a PSA test. 'cause you need to know a baseline. Just like I'd say to the woman, make sure you get, you know, your, your breast cancer exams, because it's staying on top of them is what gets you through it. You know, if you fall asleep, you don't wanna find out about any cancer when it's too late. [00:15:42] Guy: Hey of course I knew you during that time and then you always kept a real positive attitude through the whole thing, and I think you're naturally a positive person, but I imagine it was hard. Do you have any else you wanna share on that or your personal journey? [00:15:53] Ken: Yeah, it was hard. I wasn't expecting it. It was a, I was blinded by it and what made it, even [00:16:00] where it really got me is that I had my prostate removed in July of 2020, and I was going well, and then I had a relapse. In 2023, which I had to go back for more now. I had to go back for 39 days of radiation, two hormone shots, the whole works. They've looked at it and said, you know, everything's statistics. They look at it and say, yep, you do the hormone shots, the 39 radiations. We got an 85% chance of knocking this out. Almost two years back in again, and knock on wood, I'm good. [00:16:32] Guy: Best wishes gone forward on that, Ken. [00:16:34] Did any of that crisis have anything to do with your decision to, pull back and start to retire, or was it. [00:16:39] Ken: it's exactly what it was. Yep. It's exactly what it was. I retired, I was, I mean, I was, I don't feel like I'm getting older, but I was a little bit shy of 64 and I decided to step back, but I still had. A lot of passion and energy, so I wasn't quite ready to step back. [00:16:54] That's why I'm still working. I do a lot for John Murphy, the COO Now he [00:17:00] calls me with a lot of special assignments and, he's being very good to me. Gives me a lot of different things to keep them going. But I was not quite ready. But that's what did push it up a little bit. [00:17:10] Guy: Keeping your toe in the water, but enjoying some of your newfound freedom as well. [00:17:14] Ken: Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And I could just throw one out there for everybody. When you hear that. Well, if you play a lot more golf, you'll get better. Well, let me set the record straight for all of us that are thinking that's the case. Last year I played 54 rounds of golf. I didn't play 54 rounds of golf in 20 years. So in theory, I was supposed to get better guy. It didn't happen. [00:17:37] Guy: Didn't [00:17:37] Ken: No. [00:17:39] Guy: You I was looking at it for the the PGA tour and I didn't see your name, so I assumed that it. Didn't go that way. The master store. Alright, this is probably a good segue, Ken to talk about, your journey through your career and then more broadly geo professionals and you know, I think in some ways coming from the business background, you have sort of a unique vantage point [00:18:00] on our profession. [00:18:01] Over the course of your career, your storied career what have you seen that's that's changed, you know, from when you, your first stint at GZA to, how you see them perform the business today? [00:18:13] Ken: I would say the biggest single change I've seen, and, I don't mean this to be a negative 'cause it, it's not meant to be. But. When I first started with GZA, there was, people were working all kinds of ungodly hours, you'd grab a sub at, you know, and the next thing you know you're, you're back at work at six o'clock, and people were still hustling and bustling around the place at eight o'clock at night. They were in there on Saturdays and Sundays and all. Stuff. I think we've gotten smarter in this world with the way people can work. They can do work from home. They've got, you know, we've got better devices, better, better systems that I don't see the people having to do what they, you know, what I saw at the beginning. [00:18:53] It just isn't, the sweatshirt isn't the right word, but it isn't what it used to be. That way people were [00:19:00] working. Ungodly hours because that was the way it was. And it was billing hours. Billing hours. I think I think it's come a long way. [00:19:10] Guy: That's a really, keen observation. But you know, as much as things have changed and they've changed a lot, I, I assume in other ways as well, what do you think has been the constant through your career? What do you see in the business that's always stayed the same and may always be that way. [00:19:24] Ken: Yeah. That's a great question. What I think has stayed the same in our profession and GZA is that the quality of the people that come into this industry are the salt of the earth. They're, you know, they're, they've got a passion for what they do. They love what they do. They're bright. Intelligent people and I think that has not changed. If I walk the halls at GZA, I'm stunned guy. If you and I walk down the halls, and it's probably not unlike any of our other member firms, but I could walk down doorway after doorway and say, you know, 35 [00:20:00] years, 40 years, 45 years, 47 years, we've got a guy approaching 50 years at GZA. It's, to me, that doesn't happen in this world anymore. In this industry. It might, but maybe not so much either. I mean, it's just amazing to me. The amount of people the amount of time people have stayed in this profession is amazing. [00:20:22] Guy: So like a two-way loyalty of person to firm and firm to person or just staying in the career. [00:20:28] Ken: I think it's a little of both. They love what they're doing. I equate it almost like the people in our profession are almost like doctors. It's not a job, it's a life. You know what I mean? [00:20:36] And I don't want, it almost gets too corny, but there's some truth to that. It's not like I'm selling widgets and I can turn that on, turn it off. People in our profession. It is almost like that doctor mentality that it's a way of life. It's, what they're working. [00:20:56] Guy: Yeah, joy through the inherent value created. That's interesting [00:21:00] observation. How about the disruption of technology? You know, a lot of buzz about AI now, but you've had a long career and you probably saw the transition from you said you were computer science minor in college. [00:21:12] Imagine tech that way has changed a lot or cell phone service. So what do you think has been the most disruptive technology through the years? [00:21:21] Ken: It's a, that again is a catch 22. I think part of it is the cell phone. People cannot get away from their cell phones anymore. It's a good thing and a bad thing, but, so I think we've come a long way. I started out with my computer's background was the old IBM punch cards. So I saw it come from that to a dumb monitor with just a keyboard with the reams of paper coming up through it. So we've gotten so that we can do so much, so fast, but we also can't get away from it. You know, the emails and the cell phones. I give you an example. I took a cruise recently. And it was like a 12 day cruise. And I think it was the longest I had ever gone in, you know, 30, 35 years [00:22:00] without turning my cell phone on because I was out in the middle of the sea and it was like, almost ah, that was great. [00:22:05] You know? It was great. 'cause we are so inundated. I wake up in the middle of the night and don't laugh 'cause you're probably the exact same way. If all of a sudden I wake up at three in the morning and I, you know, I'm still awake, I might reach over to, oh. Who emailed me, you know, it's, we can't get away from technology today, but so it's a good thing and bad. [00:22:24] Guy: Yeah, you had a 12 day detox there. Good for you. How about the opportunities, what do you see, going forward with the wave of changes, going on in society and our profession, but where do you see opportunities for geo professionals in the years to come? [00:22:41] Ken: That, that's a tough one for me. I don't, I'm not a real. You're getting out of my out of my expertise here. I see it going the way it's been going. I don't think this industry's ever gonna go away. But it's always changing and if you don't change, it's gonna change, you know, without you [00:23:00] example there. [00:23:00] At one point, GZA had I dunno, 30, 40 people doing site assessments, cranking them out, one after another every day of the week. We don't do as many of those anymore because now we're doing other items. But, so you've gotta change, but, you know, I don't know. [00:23:17] When we do, and like for example, GZA is a different thing. We started out as a geotechnical firm. An individual by the name of John ERs came into Don Goldberg and Bill Zoino one day and said, Hey, there's this thing called environmental. They said yeah, go get us started. So then we became. Geotechnical and environmental. We've now got into ecology, water and construction management, it, we've bolted on a lot of different things from the geotechnical firm that was started in 1964. [00:23:46] Guy: So what do you think the foundational expertise that ties all those bolted on elements together is? [00:23:54] Ken: Finding it, finding the right people to lead in each of the different areas is the way to make it [00:24:00] happen. And that's where you could, you can go do, you can bolt, you can continue to bolt on. So the answer, I guess your question is that what I do see is that. We're gonna keep bolting on other items that we're gonna get involved in. When you have someone with the passion and the knowledge to lead you. [00:24:19] Guy: So drilling down into that leadership, passion and knowledge is key in identifying who those people could be and that can be successful. [00:24:26] Ken: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. It's and that's the other thing is that there's just a great resource of next up mentality in this industry. You know, it's the, oh, when you get to be our age and you say, okay, who's gonna take this next? Well, you blink your eyes. And they, we, they talented people ready to take the steering wheel and go. [00:24:47] Guy: Which is interesting, going back in the interview, did you ever imagine this is where you would be when you were in military school? [00:24:54] Ken: No I did not, I lucked out to find GZA, to be honest with you, you know, 'cause No I didn't sit back [00:25:00] there saying I'm gonna go to work for an engineering firm. I thought I was gonna be an entrepreneur, and I kept dabbling in that. If you follow it, I didn't mention I, I'm a three-peat, they call me Hatrick. [00:25:10] At GZA, I started three different times, so I worked for the financial management program at Sanders Associates. I went to work for GZA. Got into the mini storage facility, went back to GZA for about another eight years. Then I went out and had a packaging company selling polyethylene all around the country. [00:25:29] We had a pretty good size company. I was half owner of it, and then I went back to GZA for the. Third time in 2007 and finished out, the next 17 years of my career at gz. So all in all, I consider my career was GZA with 25 plus years there. But I'm like that, you know that a DD rabbit, I keep seeing other shiny objects and was going out and trying different things. [00:25:54] Guy: Any chance there'll be a fourth act, a full-time GZA. [00:25:57] Ken: No, I don't think so. I don't think so.[00:26:00] [00:26:00] Guy: Hey, Ken, you started out this podcast saying you weren't a GeoHero. So I wanna ask you to describe yourself, but as you, interfaces with different geo professionals through GZA and GBA and perhaps elsewhere, what would you how do you describe, geo professionals or even the, geo hero element, which is, ordinary people doing extraordinary things. [00:26:21] Ken: I think it's exactly that. It's just people doing it, not realizing they're doing it. You know what I mean? No one's doing this thinking. They're, trying to be in the hall of fame of the geo professional industry. They just doing it 'cause they have a love of what they're doing and they do it well. But, everyone is so humble. And that's another, attribute of the industry, in my opinion, that, there's no one raising their hand saying, look what I'm doing. Look what I'm doing. But when we go to these GBA meetings, the room is filled with just, talent in humble talent, which is something that's unique. [00:26:57] Guy: That's a great point and so true, [00:27:00] so true. Alright, we're gonna flip the chapter and go into our last section of the interview, which is the speed round. Ken, you wanna buckle up your seatbelt and get ready for some fast action. I. [00:27:10] Ken: I am ready. [00:27:11] Guy: Okay, so I'm gonna throw a few questions at you that we ask all our guests. [00:27:15] Tell us about your favorite book. [00:27:17] Ken: My favorite book is, I've Got a Couple, but my favorite book is a Cruel and Shocking Act, and it's one that you wouldn't expect me to say it, but I've always been a Kennedy assassination. I've got strong interest in that and that book to [00:27:32] me. [00:27:32] Guy: wait a minute. How's a guy from Texas? So fascinated with the Kennedys? Oh, wait a minute. You're not from Texas? My bad. Sorry. No, I was, it was your your Texas draw that, [00:27:43] Ken: yeah, no. So that book to me is is one that I don't think anyone would ever expect me to say. But it's just, to me it's just a great book on the Kennedy assassination and a different view of it. I've always been interested in it. I had a high school teacher that's is one of the, world renowned experts in it. [00:27:59] His name is [00:28:00] Jean Tetro, who's about a hundred today, but he's still out talking about the assassination and it, so that book I found very interesting. A good business book. One of the best ones I've ever read, and it is probably been mentioned before, is, good to Great. Just a great. [00:28:17] Guy: Hey, before I let you go from that, so does Gene, who does think, who does Gene Think. Did it? [00:28:23] Ken: He does not think Lee Harvey Oswald did it, [00:28:26] And he's been saying that forever. Yeah [00:28:28] Guy: okay. Just had to ask that. So good to Great. [00:28:32] Ken: Good to great's a good one. There's another business one, it's called The Advantage by Patrick Lenon. Another good, business related business book. And then I've got a fiction book that I'm not a fiction person, but there's a four part series, one second after one year after the final day and five years after. William and what that is, it has to do with it. [00:29:00] They're talking in Congress about it. It's the New War. They're projecting that someone blows up something in the, in the stratosphere and it takes out all our computer systems, and it's just, it's a very interesting book. Even though it's fiction. It could be, it's one of those books that could be real. [00:29:17] Guy: Oh my gosh. Yeah, that's a horrific scenario that seems less improbable every day. So great segue to the next one. So what's your optimism index, Ken? If you thought about one being negative and five being incredibly positive how do you view the world and the profession today? [00:29:35] Ken: I would put it at a four. I'm a, I don't have time to be negative, even though I. Can be. I try not to be negative because I just feel that being positive and having a better outlook is better than being negative and not getting through things. So I'd like to think that it's, it's a four and we're gonna get through the craziness of the world. [00:29:57] We seem to always get through it and I [00:30:00] find, you know, I'm figuring we're gonna find a way to get through it this time also. [00:30:04] Guy: Yeah. So how about when you reflect on your career, and it's been a, an interesting journey and I appreciate you sharing it. What's, what are you most proudest of, whether you're proudest project or biggest accomplishment in your professional life? [00:30:19] Ken: I mean, other than, family to me is something to be proud of. You know, it's, it's, I'm of the two kids I've raised, i've got a son that's a Black Hawk pilot, west Point graduate. That's, that was quite an accomplishment to go through it with him. I've got a daughter that's, equally as talented that, you know, so that's I'm proud of the way that my two kids have come out when I go back to that. [00:30:41] The next thing is that I'm proud of giving back. I've raised over $300,000 for cancer research. Through that bike ride I've been telling you about for 36 years. It's something like I start something I seem to, to I, I just stay on it. You know, the, this bike ride is an example I found out about this pan mass challenge [00:31:00] bike ride the day my daughter was born August 5th, 1989. [00:31:04] I'm in the hospital in Boston and I saw the TV screen that said, today is the 10th annual pan mass challenge. And I said, huh. I gotta start giving back. I gotta start giving back. She was born that day. It was the day the 10th ride was done up from a ride. 11 to this year. I haven't missed a ride. And it's raising money for cancer. [00:31:25] So I, I feel that's a positive giving back. And then the last thing was just having the good fortune of being tied in. I lucked out completely to have a great career at GZA. They were great to me. Great group of people. And, uh, you know, I just I lucked out because I couldn't have got with a better group of people or a better company for what I needed. But it's funny 'cause like most of you, when you were graduating, you knew which companies you wanted to go to. I didn't know what GZA was. I didn't know what geotechnical was. I didn't know what environmental was. I just happened to luck out, to get tied in with a company that took very good [00:32:00] care of me. [00:32:02] Guy: Well, that's great as a impressive career. And you know, you expressing the gratitude for that good fortune is compelling. The flip of that would be, if you look back on your, you knew your career and this is more on the professional side, what would you have changed a, anything along the way that you, maybe you could have done differently? [00:32:19] Ken: Yeah I think if I had to do that, do it over again. Sometimes I took things a little too serious. It cost some friendships along the way at work, possibly. You know what I mean? Because I was too rigid and took things too serious. And if, if I'm working 12 hours a day, everyone else should and and I just think I took it a little bit, maybe a little bit, gave it a little bit too much seriousness that I didn't need to. [00:32:45] I should have been a little lighter. Now it's funny guy. 'cause you know me pretty well. That's something you would never have said. 'cause I always try to bring a light side to a lot of things. I get up in front of the mic when I was president. You know, I try to keep it loose, [00:33:00] but I think when it came back to my career, sometimes I went a little too far with being too structured and too serious. [00:33:08] Guy: Yeah, that's a great comment. Because we do have, different versions of ourself and again, that was a time where working hard was expected as you said earlier. So interesting to see, how you could have played that differently at that stage. [00:33:21] Ken: Yeah, and, and don't get me wrong, 'cause I do still think people work extremely hard. It's just, it's different, you know, it's not, before it used to be FaceTime, you had to be there from seven in the morning to seven at night. Now you might not have done anything from four to seven, but FaceTime, you were. This new world is much smarter. And so I'm not trying to say that people are not, they're just working differently. They're working as hard, it's just working differently. [00:33:48] Guy: No I got that. But I appreciate the clarification and I didn't mean to imply [00:33:52] Ken: Yeah. No, no, that's fine. Yep. [00:33:55] Guy: so, final question. Just one per piece of advice that you would offer, [00:34:00] professionals, early in their careers now, speaking from, high on the mountain, how do you see it and what advice would you offer? [00:34:07] Ken: Yeah, I would say find something that you have passion in. Do not worry about the money. 'cause when you think about it, when you're younger. It seems like you're worried about the money and you might get plugged into a job that you never like and you're always making good money, but you never really liked it. So my advice is find something that you truly love and have a passion in, and do not worry about the money will follow if you work hard. And you're good at what you do and if you have the passion, you'll most likely be good at what you do. So that's the, I think that's the one piece of advice. [00:34:41] 'cause I think some people chase the money out of the box, but then they're miserable for their entire career. And as you know, not that, you know, you're not there yet. But 42 years I worked and I, you know, I come out of Norwich and I hit that, that treadmill 42 years and didn't stop. You no real regrets to [00:35:00] it, but those 42 years go by. But if you doing something you don't. [00:35:07] Guy: Yeah, that's great advice. Well, that's a wrap on today. Ken, I've always enjoyed talking to you. You're just a compelling guy and you're very conversational and I appreciate you taking the time to meet with me today and share all that you shared with our audience. I'll leave it up to you for any final words. [00:35:25] Ken: Yeah, I'm honored to have been asked. Again, I consider the GBA to be one of the, it is by far the best thing I ever got involved in outside of, working for my profession with GZA. It's great, great group of people. You had a great year. Thank you for your presidency. Thank you for Joel, for Joel's a tremendous guy. [00:35:42] Tremendous. You know, he's doing a lot of stuff. Just keep it going. You guys have a great group. I do wanna take a stab at Leo Titus because as I mentioned to you before, when Leo took the presidency, I was not in the audience and he had the microphone and took some shots at me on his taking [00:36:00] the presidency. [00:36:00] So now that he doesn't think I had a microphone again, I wanna just state that the reason I did this call today was because I knew if he was gonna be on the list. Gonna be set a lot lower. So now that I felt that I could, get into this group as long as Leo Titus was gonna be invited. We'll leave it at that. Leo I love ya. [00:36:21] Guy: So the tightest Johnston drama continues. Thanks Ken. And that'll be a wrap for today. [00:36:28] Ken: Thank you guy. Thank you everybody.