00:01.08 Guy Hello, everybody. Welcome back. Today, I'm very excited to be speaking with Charlie Head. And how are you doing today, Charlie? 00:09.34 Charlie I'm doing great. Beautiful day up here in New Hampshire. So things are good. 00:14.30 Guy Okay, would you like to take a minute and just introduce yourself to our audience? 00:19.38 Charlie Sure. So I am Charlie Head, and I am currently working for a firm that I co-founded 31 years ago, Sanborn Head & Associates. i But I'm down to part-time now, thankfully. I still chair the board. 00:36.96 Charlie but I'm no longer involved in the management or day-to-day operations of the firm. other other than that, i'm I'm doing a lot of other things on the side, which I guess we can talk about if it kind of comes up. 00:49.28 Guy Yeah, and it will come up. Before we leave Sandboard Head, could you just give a thumbnail on on the firm, you know where you are, rough size, what type of of specialty youve you've had, and what you do you know what was your particular technical specialty working there? 01:03.93 Charlie Sure. So, Sam Moore had, as I said, started in 1993. There were four of us who started the firm. We've grown over time. We're just shy of 200 people now. The firm started really with a focus on the geo-environmental business, so both geotechnical and environmental work. We've since expanded. We do include in that, by the way, solid waste services. But we've now expanded into energy and in particular liquefied natural gas infrastructure and renewables. So the firm really has a pretty broad array of services that it offers. We're focused in the Northeast, but we also have offices in the Mid-Atlantic, in the Philadelphia area. 01:50.01 Charlie and a smaller office in Denver. 01:53.67 Guy Well, 31 years is quite an accomplishment. 200 people, it's quite an accomplishment. So congratulations on a successful journey there. 02:01.58 Charlie Thank you. 02:03.09 Guy So let's get into Charlie. Let's learn a little bit more about Charlie and you know how you got to where you you are today. Tell us a little bit about know what you were like as a child and you know pre-entering college and you know what were your interests and a little bit of your background that you're willing to share. 02:20.15 Charlie Yeah, so i i I guess by many respects, I'm i'm really grateful to have grown up in a really nice family and a really nice town and in in New Hampshire. So I remember my my childhood very fondly. My interests went to pretty much anything outdoors and music. And turns out to this day, those are still my interests and passions outside of work. 02:45.25 Charlie So, um um you know, that was pretty pretty much it. I i was a pretty good student, but I was also really interested in the social aspects of life. And so, you know, I was never, you know, never really a bookworm, but I i i enjoyed a lot of things. And when I went to college, 03:06.99 Charlie to be, believe it or not, an English or history major. went to St. Lawrence University, which is a liberal arts college, and I was forced to take a science class as a what they call distribution requirement. And so I begrudgingly signed up for geology and loved it. And so stuck with, you know, with the liberal arts curriculum throughout those four years, but ended up majoring 03:35.82 Charlie in geology, which was a real switch from where I thought I would go when I started that adventure. 03:44.01 Guy And then somewhere along the line, you picked up your PG and also your PE. So I assume there's further education involved. 03:50.66 Charlie Yeah, so I got out of St. Lawrence and I sort of casted about a little bit. I was trying to find what something to be the a really good fit. And I was having a hard time with that as sort of picking up odd jobs here and there. And my parents actually suggested that I go to Boston and take a two-day intensive aptitude test, which was sort of interesting, and I did. 04:24.90 Charlie And turns out through this process, which I still remember vividly to this day, they tested a whole battery of aptitudes, some of which I don't have, but it turns out one that I did have was something they called structural or three-dimensional visualization. And in talking to the counselor afterwards, he goes, you know, he said, I think that you might be looking for a career that really puts that aptitude to work, because I think that would really be something you would enjoy. And so that sort of helped help focus my search a little bit. And up until that point, to be honest guy, engineering was never really on the radar screen. 05:10.62 Charlie But I began to talk to people who were engineers and I became became increasingly intrigued with the idea of engineering. and By this, I mean specifically civil engineering. and you know ah you know ah To make a somewhat longer story short, I thought I would try it out, went back and started taking a few classes. It turned out I was pretty good at it. and so i um I jumped in with both feet, went back to the University of New Hampshire, 05:38.42 Charlie And I've got to get into the civil engineering department where I graduated with a second bachelor of science three years later. So that really shifted my whole focus in terms of what I thought I would do for a career very dramatically. And I worked for a couple of years and then went back to get my graduate degree, this time at Colorado State University. 06:03.16 Charlie And my specialty really was groundwater engineering. So, ah you know, sort of sub-branch of civil. But at that point, groundwater and engineering was was handled in three departments at Colorado State in the Ag Engineering and the Civil Engineering and in the Earth Resources Department. So they didn't even really know where it fit. And that's probably somewhat appropriate. 06:28.86 Guy yeah that's it's it's not a Well, it's a science, but it's not as straightforward as people want to put it in a box. 06:36.05 Charlie Yeah, sort of like a course in three dimensional or, excuse me, partial differential equations meets geology. And it was, it was, it was really, it was fun. It was a great, i had a great time at graduate school. Really enjoyed it. 06:51.43 Guy That's great to hear. i've've heard Many people had a great time in graduate school and others did not, but I'm glad to hear you did. 06:58.58 Charlie Yeah. 07:00.56 Guy I enjoyed my time there as well. Actually, it was a real growth experience for me. 07:02.97 Charlie Yeah. 07:06.15 Guy So going back a little bit, I mean, it sounds like you had an interesting upbringing. What was your first nonprofessional job that you had, not in the geo profession? 07:17.27 Charlie yeah Yeah, so so I am Of course, I've been working like mowing lawns and doing those things since I was like 10 years old in fact i I can't even remember a time when I didn't work. I really love work um But my first you kind of real job a real non-professional job and I gotta be a little careful with this But I was a waiter And I was a waiter at a restaurant called the Milliard in Manchester, New Hampshire. And i I said, I need to be a little careful because when I joined the group of waiters there, there were several waiters who were actually professional waiters and they were really good. And I learned a lot from those guys and they and they were all guys at that point. But i I loved the job and I loved the, it was very dynamic. 08:13.38 Charlie lot of things going on at once, and yet you get to deal intensely with people, which sounds a whole lot like consulting engineering. So i yeah I think it was a really kind of a kind of a good way to kind of Get started in a in a field that is kind of intense and deals with a lot of people all the time So I I really enjoyed that job and I had a lot of fun with it. 08:37.83 Charlie and I learned a lot from it Needless to say I didn't want to become a professional waiter. Although again, I have a tremendous amount of respect for What just how good those those guys were so yeah Yeah, I am always have been 08:50.59 Guy You're a good tipper now, Charlie. 08:55.99 Guy Yeah, you appreciate the the work that goes into great service. 09:00.14 Charlie ah ah Exactly. Yeah, it really is something. 09:03.98 Guy So back to your career. So you you you came out with your graduate degree. You had an undergrad in and geology and graduate degree in civil engineering branch with water resources. 09:16.54 Guy And then where'd you go from there? like So what was your mindset at that time coming out of college and you know what what did you think you were gonna do with your life? 09:24.03 Charlie so I knew at that point that I really wanted to go into consulting. And it was just clear, clear as to me. And I started applying to a number of different consulting firms, and I landed a job with a firm that's now called GZAGU Environmental, then called Goldberg Zoynell & Associates. Terrific firm then, terrific firm now. Just just a great firm. 09:53.11 Charlie and learned a lot while I was there and got a lot of opportunity. In fact, a lot of opportunity and a lot of opportunity to work with some very knowledgeable, influential senior people at that firm. And you know so to this day, I i yeah had tremendous respect for the firm and the the people who I worked with at that firm. But there came a point where 10:22.54 Charlie just because I was who I was and wanted to to try to do something on my own. And and I did. And in 1993, I left GZA with a couple other guys, and and we formed Sanborn Head and have have really been focused on growing a great firm and doing great work since since then. 10:49.10 Guy So was that a tough decision to leave and well, not so much to leave, but to start your own firm or did you feel preordained to do that? 10:56.07 Charlie It was tough to leave because because I really was ah ah treated very well there and had a lot of opportunity. It's just something that was kind of wired in me and not the fault of anybody, but just something that I had to do. And and and then I'm glad I did because it led me in a slightly different direction and that's made a lot of difference in my career and in my life. 11:21.78 Guy How about a thumbnail on your career arc from, you know hey, four four folks starting a firm 30 some years ago to retire mostly retired chair of the board. 11:32.87 Charlie Yeah, 11:33.21 Guy what What were the big you know big moments along the way, so to speak? 11:37.95 Charlie yeah so i I was very interested in pursuing work that that would It really challenged me, I guess, to try to find the right word. And so the the ah the client base that I pursued was not necessarily local. I didn't confine myself to just looking at local opportunities, which of course has its downsides because it involved naturally a fair bit of travel, particularly in the days before the kinds of communications we have now. 12:18.73 Charlie But I ended up working for some pretty big national clients on projects that were frankly, not only national, but global. and so starting Even before we started at Sanborn Head, but particularly at Sanborn Head, the first 10 to 12 years of my career there was focused on serving a global industrial client base. 12:44.48 Charlie And had the just really good fortune of working all over the world. I've worked, spent 10 years working doing projects in China, worked for in Brazil, worked all over Europe. One of my favorite projects ever was closure of an industrial site in Northampton, England, as well as projects here in the US. But it was just a really kind of cool, cool way to sort of you know, make my living or a cool way to have a career, and develop a developer career during that time. In 2005, Paul Sanborn retired and I took over as president and CEO of the firm, but I maintained my client base, which gradually sort of winnowed down over time as the firm grew 13:39.39 Charlie And it took more of my efforts to run the firm to the point where 2015, when I turned the management, the leadership of the firm over to the and next generation, Barrett Cole, who runs the firm now, I was really not doing much client work at all. And then was an opportunity to step it back up again. And I did that for a number of years. And and then I whittled that down again. And now I'm focused on things like, you know running the board and doing a lot of leadership development work for the firm. but So my my career has really changed a lot over the past 30 years. and And that's been kind of an interesting way to do it. 14:20.24 Guy Any scary moments along the way, Charlie? I mean, is' I'm sure it was an all smooth sailing. 14:26.20 Charlie So, you know you know yourself, guy being in business, there are kind of endless scary moments. ah I think you know if I had to point to big ones, the Great Recession it was terrifying. you know we We like ah ah probably many other firms, a fair bit of our businesses in commercial real estate, not not all, but but a fair bit. I remember mid-2008 thinking, gee, we're kind of skating through this okay. you know 14:58.15 Charlie and then within I don't recall, but probably a six or 10 week period of time we lost most of our development business, just shut down. And the the consequences, of course, having to go through layoffs and downsizing and looking at the way we reorient our work and our focus, it was just the whole thing was just awful. But I want to go through that again. 15:26.09 Charlie and And of course, that so that's best's probably the worst, but there have been periods of time like that off and on over the last 30 years. And then COVID hit and we were thrown back into a lot of uncertainty again and seemed to make it through that okay. But it's these black swans that really, you know, being in business that really come out of nowhere that surprise you and I think present the the greatest challenge. 15:51.30 Guy and Well said. So in your career, any any um key mentors that stand out to you, folks that really not just people that you work with, maybe clients or just anybody really that stands out in your mind that really kind of helps you figure things out or get you through a tough time or help you be the person that you are today? 16:11.29 Charlie Yeah, so I i put those mentors in some different categories. I think one so professional mentor, Paul Sanborn, was my first mentor and and probably the most important mentor I had in my career. He was bar none, the best consultant I've ever worked with. And I learned a lot from him. also had the really, really good fortune of bringing professionals onto our board who were outside the firm. And there were three that come to mind, ah ah Dick Orton, Bill Rizzo, and Rob Googens, who all, you know, really were the kind of guys who could see her around corners and had such great life and work experience. And they were so generous availing that to to me and to the people in our firm. 17:10.06 Charlie And so, you know, certainly professionally, they were very, very, very important mentors. And then I have a mentor now who, you know, somebody who I can talk to about so life matters. 17:24.52 Charlie And his name is Steve Reno, and he was the former chancellor of the University of New Hampshire. I met Steve through an outside program, and we get together for lunch every three to six months. And so I've been very, very lucky in in having people who I can can go to, who have been there before I have, and have been very generous with their time and all the knowledge that they've they've gained. 17:52.25 Guy So I don't want to embarrass you, but I do want to point out you know that your career has culminated in a you know great firm and a great position. But you were recently recognized by ASE and GBA as the professional pra Professional Practice Ethics and Leadership Award. So congratulations on that, Charlie. And you know how do you feel about that? 18:12.19 Charlie Well, so I was surprised when I get the call. And of course I was absolutely thrilled. It was, it was really, really, I was very grateful. I felt, I felt that, you know, to of all the awards to win one that recognized leadership and particularly ethics is really special. So, uh, uh, was just, I was, I was thrilled. 18:40.89 Guy As you should be. I mean, it's really, well, it's terrific that you were recognized for that. And I can't think of a better person too to win that. So 18:48.83 Charlie Thank you. 18:50.27 Guy So looking forward, Charlie, you're in this next stage and I know a little bit about some of the things you're doing, but would you like to share with the audience just how you're looking at life now as you're transitioning out of your former role and into your your next chapter of life? 19:04.53 Charlie Sure. So I have to reemphasize that I still am involved with the firm and I expect frankly to be for a couple more years now. I really enjoy what I do and the I enjoy the role that I'm playing now And I care a lot about the firm, but I am I am not managing the firm, and I'm not even a key shareholder the firm which surprises a lot of people. 19:30.24 Charlie we have a program in our our company where you reach certain age, you start selling your stock back, and it astounds people that even a co-founder of the firm would need to do that, but I do. I follow the same rules as everybody else does. So my yeah my ownership stake in the firm is is not very big anymore, and that's fine by me. Others should step up and have the opportunity to own the firm. 19:53.62 Charlie So I wanted to kind of set that out as a framework because because it does surprise a lot of a lot of people when I tell them that. 19:55.84 Guy Mm hmm. 20:01.62 Charlie So my interest in staying with the firm is is purely because I love what I do and I love the firm and I love the people I work with. And I can't envision giving that up right now. 20:15.44 Charlie But at the same time, There are a lot of other interests that I do have and I'm able to pursue those now with just have more time to do that. I've told you guys and so some others that you know one of my when i my passions is music and it always has been and right now I have a little band and we actually play gigs and we get paid a little bit of money for it. 20:41.55 Guy That's incredible. 20:42.78 Charlie it's It's really kind of incredible. And and it's so it's really, really fun. i I even went out and bought a professional sound system. like I'm not sure I have any business doing that, but it's a really fun thing to do. Never will recoup the money, but at this point, that's not the point. The point is is it's it's really fun. It's extremely creative. So I've been been working a lot on the music. 21:09.12 Charlie And I have a long way to go, but but I really, really enjoyed it. So that's that's one of the things. But I still enjoy the outside pursuits. My wife and I like long distance walking. We do a lot lot of walking in Europe. And hiking and kayaking and all those things we like to be outside doing. 21:29.02 Guy Back to the music, I just have to get this in for the audience. 21:30.45 Charlie yeah 21:32.69 Guy So what instruments do you play and what type of music do you play? 21:35.31 Charlie Yeah, so I play guitar and this acoustic guitar. I became really interested in in Celtic music about 20 years ago. It's not the only kind of music I play, but it stood on my passion. And the roots of Celtic music for people who don't know that, you know, you think about Irish music, or but dismisss it's not confined music from Ireland, but the roots are are largely there. It's largely instrumental music, although, you know, there are certainly 22:06.68 Charlie vocals that go along with it, but our band specializes in instrumental parts of that music. And so I play guitar, and in the band, my wife, she plays fiddle, which is a violin, again, if you're not familiar with that. My wife has had some heart issues recently, she's she's recovering from, so she's had to so step aside for a little bit. 22:29.13 Charlie And we have one of the women plays fiddle and somebody plays the the mandolin and another woman who plays flute and whistle. So put together it's it's it's a lot it's a lot of lot of fun. 22:43.36 Guy just, it's terrific that you're you're so passionate about it and it's so different from what you think of as geo professionals. Charlie, I could just go on and on. I find you a fascinating person. I always have, I've always enjoyed talking to you, but I want to keep the the podcast moving to some other topics that don't directly involve you. You know, you've you've been around, you're certainly a wise person that a lot of people look up to. So I want to get a few nuggets of how Charlie sees the world and maybe we could just move move to a you know a different line of questions. and 23:12.54 Charlie ye 23:13.58 Guy I guess like really, know, from a, from a geo-professional perspective, you know, just how do you see the profession today? And juxtapose that against how you saw the profession maybe early in your career. Is it largely the same? Has it changed? You know, and and then we'll get into where's it going from there. 23:32.13 Charlie So I think the the profession has certainly evolved along with, you know, any other profession like it. When I started, you know the even even the whole environmental area was just starting to really come into its own, right? So the kinds of things that we've learned, and I'll speak largely to the more environmental aspects, because that's that's the area that I focused on, a little bit less the geotechnical. 24:01.80 Charlie Even though that's what our firm does, my my area of focus, as I said, was more on the environmental. But I think about the the the ways we approach that the problems, with the challenges we're confronted with now really, really have evolved a lot over the last 30 to 40 years. the We have a lot more sophistication. it was a lot of It was a lot of fun because we were sort of making things up as we went along 30 years ago. 24:26.29 Charlie I mean everything was new and everything was we're trying to figure it out so there was a lot of excitement about the sort of newness of it and You know, when you discover dense non-aqueous phase liquids, and that was very cool. And all of a sudden, we had kind of understood things in a whole different light. We looked at other ways, contaminants were transporting the subsurface, or technologies applied to clean things up. It was very exciting because it was all new. And that excitement simmered down a little bit, I think, over time. But just because I think things are now more in a phase where they're they're just maturing and evolving. 25:02.85 Charlie But I think the whole field has has really, really evolved in the last 30 or 40 years to a very, very mature and very sophisticated profession now. 25:17.91 Guy So what's what's what we see and and the in the near and longer term future? like what what you know there A lot of talk about demographics and technology. Do you see those affecting our profession? 25:31.97 Charlie So, you know, clearly, I think this is probably, you know, sort of like what's new kind of the thing, but the technology has been just transformative. I i arrived at my very first job, on my very first day, my very first job at GCA. On my very first day, the exact same day, the first personal computer arrived in that office. 25:56.20 Guy Yes. 25:56.80 Charlie And I had, of course, been working with PCs in my college classes, but it was not something that had yet completely transitioned over to the professional world. And so I was immediately put to work writing writing a basic program to analyze inclinometer data. And people were like, wow, I'd buy that. And this is how far we've come. you know Now at at our firm, we have a whole department that specializes in data management and visualization. 26:26.23 Charlie and the kinds of 3D modeling that we're doing of major projects. It's just astounding. Not only can it help us understand things and analyze things to a level that we never couldn't even imagine 30 years ago, but it helps us communicate this to our clients in ways that we could have never imagined 30 years ago. 26:45.61 Charlie And I only see that continuing. I mean, I think that's just a huge growing area, applications of artificial intelligence. I haven't seen really that be transformative at this point. We certainly use AI in terms of the modeling that we do and some of the research that we do, but I've yet to see that be fully transformative. That probably will be. So I think it it will only, things will only continue to I think technology will continue to sort of increase the rate at which change is occurring in in our profession. 27:23.58 Guy So if you're putting your crystal ball, look at peering into your crystal ball based around your your experience. So what what do you think a profession looks like in five years, in 25 years from now? Can you opine to what what that might look like? 27:41.03 Charlie Yeah, it's hard. because it changes so fast, right? and And I'm not that kind of visionary. I never really have been. So you know five years now, I can i can imagine that the the changes will be modest, that we'll see more applications of artificial intelligence. We'll see more applications of it you know that in data management, visualization, and some of the site work we're doing. If we step out 25 years from now, I really can't imagine. I mean, I think we'll be transparent the way we communicate, the way we approach data, the way we look at management of data, will it'll be completely transformed. But I was thinking about this, and I was thinking, you know, it's it's easy to kind of see that everything will be different in 25 or 30 years from now, but i I'm not sure that's even that's the case. And I was imagining taking something like Carl Trazagi, 28:38.64 Charlie who was at the height of his practice, 80 to 100 years ago, and dropping Terzaghi in one of our offices right now. And at one, in one respect, he wouldn't recognize it right the technology and be completely over overwhelmed by the way we, probably the way we work but the pace. 28:56.74 Charlie and which But then if he spent a little more time and he spent time talking to some of the professionals, he spent time maybe thinking about some of the problems they were solving, I think he'd find it very recognizable. So I guess that's all to say that the technology certainly will change the way we do things, the way we communicate, the way we analyze data, all of that. And yet I have a hard time believing fundamentally it will, there'll be, 29:27.58 Charlie So a lot of things that we could do now will still fundamentally be the same. That's my guess. I have no idea. 29:36.32 Guy You know, if we're this is a new podcast, and this is for our audience. This is early on in the podcast. If if we're successful here, these may be around in the GBA archives for 10, 20 years, so our future successors can laugh at how naive we are, but it's fun to talk about these things. 29:53.78 Charlie but it's fun it's It's fun to imagine it really is. 29:57.45 Guy And then, you know as you mentioned earlier, the Black Swan events sort of reset everything in ways that we we can't even contemplate. 30:02.79 Charlie know They'll keep coming. 30:05.28 Guy Yeah, that's part that part we know. 30:08.85 Charlie yeah 30:08.98 Guy Okay, well, thanks for sharing that. Let's move to the next chapter of this this podcast. So this is what we call the speed rounds, 30:15.07 Guy It doesn't have to be lightning fast, but you know I'll just ask you a couple of questions and you need to just answer it best you can. So I know you're a you're an avid reader. you've you've You read different things. And we've shared books in the past. you know What are you reading right now? And know what do you find interesting about? Or not really just what are you reading, but what interesting thing are you reading right now? 30:35.42 Charlie Well, so my so I do read a lot and and I um I was always a sort of a nonfiction kind of guy. And I don't know why, but a few years ago I started reading fiction really for the first time. And so I found a lot of fiction that I love. And so, you know, I just thought about this a little bit, but like two books, fiction books I just absolutely love were Cloud Kukulian by Anthony Doar and Chantarum by Gregory Roberts. 31:03.77 Charlie I continue to read nonfiction. I just read Falling Upward by Richard Moore, fabulous book, and I use a book right now ah written by John O'Donohue called Annam Kara as a, as a, actually as a morning devotional, believe it or not. And then the book that i I just keep coming back to my whole life, one that I read first as a teenager, and I've read probably five or six times since is man's search for meaning by Viktor Frankl. And that's a fabulous book. 31:39.59 Guy One of these days, we're going to compile the GBA recommended reading list and capture all these on in one spot so everybody can pick or choose what what they want from it. 31:47.50 Charlie Yeah. Yeah. 31:50.54 Guy Well, thanks for sharing that. So again, Speedround, you read the news cycle and you know doom and gloom. What's Charlie Head's personal optimism index? You know, one being very pessimistic, five being optimistic on things in general. 32:08.21 Charlie Yeah, guys, so I i share that. I i get overwhelmed with with all the things that are going on in the world right now. I really do. And as I shared a little bit, my wife's had some health challenges, which she's moving through, thankfully. So it's been it's been ah ah been a challenging time, I gotta tell you. It really has, and I know it has been for a lot of people, and I talk to a lot of people. However, at my core, 32:33.13 Charlie I am an optimistic person. And that doesn't mean that I believe everything's gonna just always turn out right. It means that I i told ah ah hold continuously a lot of hope. And so if I had to rate it one to five, I won't be modeling and tell you it's a five, but I'll give you a four. I have this great faith in the resiliency of people to whether difficult, challenging times. And I have a great faith in our ability to overcome problems, big big problems, problems that seem insurmountable now that I think i think can be can be solved. And I think the history of the world is full of lots of examples of that. And I think we'll continue to see lots of examples going forward, just just how I think, look at life. 33:28.24 Guy Thanks for sharing that. and you know I think you need to be optimistic to accomplish all the things that you've done, you know, in your life. And that brings me to my next question. So when you look back on your life and you're probably a look forward guy, but I'm going to ask you to look back, you know, what, what do you think your biggest impact has been in your adult life and not necessarily your, your job, but it could be, or it could be a project or impact on a person. You know, what, what was, uh, what was your biggest impact on in this world? 33:58.77 Charlie So it's funny i how you can measure something like that, or you think about it. And I like to think that I've had a huge impact in my in my family life, and and that's important. But if we put that aside for just a minute, because that's very you know obviously very, very important to me. But put that aside for just a minute, and we look at on the more professional end of things. 34:25.89 Charlie starting a firm and and creating a firm that could do what our firm has done, provide jobs for people, security for families. that's a It's a huge, huge deal. And and one that I'm very grateful to have the opportunity to have and been part of. I really am. And then if I was to look at one kind of specific thing, I had this really wonderful opportunity to be on the board of the Department of Civil Engineering at the University of New Hampshire for about 20 years. 35:00.71 Charlie And on the board, I came up with this this idea to start what we called an alumni conference where we give our alumni an opportunity to come back to UNH and present along with students work and kind of have a day of sharing. 35:15.77 Guy Hmm. 35:18.16 Charlie And we started this conference back in 2010 And it's still going to this day. It's a biennial event, so every two years. It's still going to this day. And it it it involves you know three to four hundred people. And it makes makes a big impact on people and on on the lives of students, but also the lives of professionals who are able to come back and share their experience with the students. so So I'm very proud about that. I thought that that' was a pretty cool thing. 35:47.21 Guy As you should be. That's really cool. Thanks for sharing that. 35:50.25 Charlie yeah 35:51.45 Guy So maybe the complimentary question to what are you most proud of? If you look back at your your life, would you change anything? Would you do something differently? Not necessarily a regret, but you know you have different different gates to go through in life. 36:03.52 Guy Would you you take in a different different path at any point along the way in retrospect? 36:08.50 Charlie No, I know it's kind of a kind of something I feel like I should have a kind of a cool answer to that, but I i don't. i Literally, I mean, I suppose little things, but if you if you if you' if you think anything big, all I mean, I haven't had a life that's been just full of great experiences, but all the experiences have brought me to where I am here. and and i'm really happy ah where where I am here. so So I would say that I i don't think there's anything I would change. Nothing major, certainly. 36:47.69 Guy I don't think that's a bad answer at all, to be honest with you. and you know So thanks thanks for being honest and not just throwing out the ah ah you know the standard answer, so to speak. 36:58.08 Guy you know hold Hold your ground on that, Charlie. 36:58.63 Charlie yeah yeah thank you 37:02.36 Guy So I just have one one final question. And this has been terrific. I think we're just you know trying to keep these to a certain length. But I look forward to chatting with you much longer than this, ah ah Charlie, just this editorial 37:09.38 Charlie yeah sure 37:17.57 Guy boundaries, I guess. but the But, you know, as we leave today's podcast, what type of advice would you have if you had one piece of advice for someone entering our profession now? but What would you offer? 37:30.18 Charlie well it would be very general but i would offer this advice you get out of it which you put into it You know, keep challenging yourself. Keep meeting new people. Keep learning. Don't ever stop. 37:48.37 Guy Love that. I love that. If I could two thumbs up on that on the podcast. That's terrific. Well, thank you, Charlie. I really appreciate you taking time to be with us today. I found this very interesting. I hope our listeners will find it interesting as well. Any final words that you'd like to say but as we wrap up? 38:07.17 Charlie Guy, thank you very much. This was really fun. Enjoyed this opportunity. And I think this is a great idea to have these podcasts. So good luck good luck with this too. And, you know, thank thank you for the work you're doing for GBA and thank you for the work that you're doing to bring this podcast to to our members. 38:25.15 Guy That's terrific. Well, we're going to sign off here. So thanks for tuning in today. 38:30.57 Charlie Thank you.