Abby Burns (00:12):
From Advisory Board, we are bringing you a Radio Advisory, your weekly download on how to untangle healthcare's most pressing challenges. I'm Abby Burns.

(00:21):
When we talk about the insurance market, we usually focus on the big three: Medicare, Medicaid, and employer-sponsored insurance. But since 2013, people have also been covered by individual insurance plans, plans they buy themselves. And to give you a sense for scale here, this is the fourth-largest line of business. 22 million people in the US are covered by individual plans, so it's worth understanding what's going on in this market. And as it turns out, now is a good time to be shining some light here because there are actually some pretty big changes underway.

(00:54):
One of those is the rise of ICHRAs, which are a particular type of individual plan that have been gaining more and more attention as employers become increasingly desperate to curb their health spending. I wanted to understand what ICHRAs are and how the market has been reacting to their rise, and I wanted to give you, our listeners, some guidance around how plans, employers, and providers should evaluate what ICHRAs mean for them. To help me answer those questions, I'm turning to Advisory Board health plan expert, Morghen Philippi.

(01:24):
Hi, Morghen. Welcome to Radio Advisory.

Morghen Philippi (01:27):
Hey, Abby, happy to be here.

Abby Burns (01:30):
I'm very happy to have you here with me to help me nerd out about health plan dynamics. And actually, this is a conversation about health plans, but it's also a conversation about employers, and specifically employer health costs, right? Employers have been saying for several years now that they cannot absorb any more cost growth for health insurance, and yet we're expecting to see in 2025 employee health costs grow 6%, which would be the third year in a row that that number is over 5%. It's pretty unsustainable. And when we talk to employers and even plans, they feel like they've already squeezed all the juice that they can out of traditional levers for cost mitigation, like redesigning benefits, like shifting costs to employees. I mean, there's really only so far you can go with cost-shifting and still call insurance a benefit.

(02:25):
So both plans and employers have really been looking for creative alternatives, right?

Morghen Philippi (02:31):
Yeah, I would say employers are really looking for something different, plans are looking for something different, and that's where ICHRAs enter the stage. So I want to take a step back and think about what an ICHRA is, right?

Abby Burns (02:44):
Yes, please.

Morghen Philippi (02:45):
Even the word ICHRA, what is that? So an ICHRA is an individual coverage health reimbursement arrangement, and it's a way for employers to offer health benefits and it's a little bit different than what we think of when we think of normal, traditional, employer-sponsored insurance.

Abby Burns (03:02):
How so?

Morghen Philippi (03:03):
In an ICHRA, an employer is giving money to an employee and saying, "Hey, go to the individual marketplace and pick your own plan. This allowance I'm giving you is going to go towards your premium, it's probably going to cover it all," and that employee is picking their plan.

Abby Burns (03:20):
Isn't that effectively what an HSA, a health savings account, is?

Morghen Philippi (03:25):
So it's similar and it's going to sound really similar, but the big difference is that the money in an ICHRA is going towards the premium, so that employee is picking which plan they want from the marketplace and it's really a defined benefit. But in the ICHRA situation, you as an employee are going into the individual marketplace and you are picking which plan works for you. You're not limited to these three your employer already picked. You're picking from any plan available to you on the individual marketplace and using that allowance from your employer to help cover the premium of that plan. So in that case, you can think about it as really a defined contribution on the employer's part.

Abby Burns (04:05):
That sounds actually surprisingly innovative.

Morghen Philippi (04:09):
Yeah. I mean, I think that it's basic and innovative at the same time, and I think time will tell how much this impacts the market, and honestly, I think that's why we're having this conversation right now is because everyone's like, "Wait, this feels new. This is new. These started in 2020. They are new. And so how are they going to impact the market? What's happening and what do we really need to know"

Abby Burns (04:33):
Yes. And Morghen, I think one of the things that's so interesting about this is that this innovation is happening in a segment of the industry that we frankly just don't focus on all too often, which is the individual marketplace. And to ground the conversation we're having today, can you give us the 101 or maybe the 201 on the individual insurance market? What is it? How would you contextualize it in the broader health insurance landscape?

Morghen Philippi (05:00):
Yeah. So as you mentioned, Abby, this is a key line of business for health plans, but it's not one of the big three we usually think about. It's often that number four. And as you mentioned, you're looking at about 22 million people that are in this market. That's not a small number. That's a lot of people when we think about it.

(05:16):
So this started back in 2010. You can think about the Affordable Care Act, the ACA, which is how this all started, and it led to this individual market.

Abby Burns (05:25):
And this looks different state by state?

Morghen Philippi (05:27):
Yes, yeah. So we won't get into the nitty-gritty, but there are federally run marketplaces, there are state-based marketplaces. There's a lot going on there.

Abby Burns (05:36):
Morghen, the exchanges have been around, I think they went live in 2013, so we're coming up on 12 years that this has been around. Help me understand why this segment of the market is on our radar right now.

Morghen Philippi (05:49):
I would say one of the biggest reasons this market is getting a lot of news and coverage right now, Abby, is because it's booming. Enrollment is really spiking right now and there are several reasons why enrollment is spiking. You have the Medicaid unwinding in which folks who used to be in Medicaid are now going to be in the marketplace, you have an expanded enrollment period for the marketplace, you have increased spending federally on navigators helping people to get enrolled in the marketplace.

(06:18):
But really, the biggest one is enhanced subsidies. That is the biggest headline here. We had enhanced subsidies roll out in 2021 and that has driven 10 million additional folks into the individual marketplace.

Abby Burns (06:32):
Wow.

Morghen Philippi (06:32):
Yeah, it's a big number. So in 2020 before those enhanced subsidies, it was 11.4 million people, and now, like we said, we're looking at 21.4, right? That's a huge jump.

Abby Burns (06:43):
In just three years?

Morghen Philippi (06:44):
In just three years.

Abby Burns (06:47):
Morghen, I have to admit, I had never actually heard of ICHRAs before your team put this on our radar, but since we started talking about them, I've actually seen ICHRAs popping up everywhere. Rae was at HLTH recently and went to a whole session dedicated to ICHRAs. So we're not the only ones that are tracking here.

Morghen Philippi (07:06):
Yeah. So definitely a lot of news around ICHRAs right now, Abby. It keeps coming up everywhere. And honestly, even my friends and family know me as the ICHRA person now, so people outside of healthcare research keep hearing about ICHRAs.

Abby Burns (07:20):
Morghen, you already teed up the idea behind ICHRAs, but can you actually break down for us how ICHRAs work and maybe what are the core questions that leaders are or should be asking about them?

Morghen Philippi (07:33):
Absolutely. So we did that high-level, but let's walk through step by step. What does this look like for an employer or an end consumer?

(07:40):
So step one is that an employer is setting this maximum allowance per employee that they're going to give, and I'm going to stop there and actually say that's a huge benefit right here. I think we need to talk about for employers is that they are setting that maximum contribution that they're going to give. They're not responding to a health plan, to that health plan's rate, how that health plan's rate is going to change year to year. That employer is saying, "This is my maximum allowance," right?

Abby Burns (08:07):
Said differently, they have visibility into what their health costs are going to be. They can guarantee that line item.

Morghen Philippi (08:13):
100%. They can guarantee that line item and even really set it themselves. So they know that this year, they can know what they're going to spend. Next year, it's in their control, which is really appealing to them.

Abby Burns (08:24):
Yeah, that feels huge.

Morghen Philippi (08:26):
That's huge, right? So that's step one. Cycle back, step one, these employers are setting this contribution limit.

(08:32):
Then employers are going out and they're buying their coverage from the individual marketplace. Then they're requesting a reimbursement from their employer and then employers, that last step, are reimbursing those employees and they have an option. Employees can either get reimbursed for just that premium or employers can say, "Hey, I'll reimburse you actually for premium and a little extra if you have other medical expenses." That's up to the employer, but that's the nitty-gritty of in the details how an ICHRA is going to work.

Abby Burns (09:03):
So just to recap, employer sets the maximum allowance, employee purchases health insurance, uses it, employer reimburses the employee for the health insurance.

Morghen Philippi (09:16):
Absolutely. You got it.

Abby Burns (09:18):
I want to get a sense for scale here because we're talking about how much the individual market has grown, it's doubled in the past three years, but ICHRAs in particular, they are emerging, they're gaining steam. What are we actually talking about in terms of market size, market outlook, et cetera?

Morghen Philippi (09:36):
Yeah, so this is where I actually think we really need to look at the hard numbers, Abby, and I'm glad we're having this specific conversation because there's so much hype around ICHRAs, it's easy to think, "This is huge. This is changing everything. Don't blink, everything's going to be different tomorrow." At the end of the day, ICHRAs are still pretty small. So the best estimates we have are that ICHRAs are right around 500,000 folks that are enrolled.

Abby Burns (10:03):
Oh, wow. That's pretty small.

Morghen Philippi (10:04):
Yeah. Think about 500,000 folks compared to the entire individual market, right? You're talking a couple percentage points. So it's still pretty small. It's just thinking about, "Okay, well, how big can that get and how will it impact me?"

Abby Burns (10:19):
Right. And do we know that, at this point, how big the market is expected to get?

Morghen Philippi (10:23):
It really depends who you ask, Abby. I think you're going to find some folks who are all in on ICHRAs, and we can get into that later, what plans are going to say, ICHRAs are the future and the only future, versus some folks think that's a lot of talk and it's never going to happen.

(10:38):
I think that realistically, it's somewhere in the middle. I think ICHRAs are going to continue to grow. ICHRAs are a great option for employers. They're a great option for people who have really been looking for a way to offer health benefits to their employees and haven't found a good way to do it or feel like they're priced out of the market. It's serving an important need, but there are definitely some limitations that I think are going to keep it from completely changing the market overnight.

Abby Burns (11:04):
So Morghen, what are the questions that you are hearing from leaders or that you anticipate hearing from leaders about ICHRAs?

Morghen Philippi (11:11):
Yeah. So I would say really what I think we should spend a lot of time talking about today, Abby, is what is happening in the ICHRA world and what does it mean for me? That's what leaders are thinking about across the board, and honestly, this is across industry conversation, right?

Abby Burns (11:26):
Mm-hmm.

Morghen Philippi (11:27):
This is going to matter for employers. We've already talked about them. This is going to matter for plans, this is going to matter for vendors. This is a huge space for vendors. And this is going to matter for providers because reimbursements are going to be different across these different lines of business from a health plan. So it's really going to impact everybody in the industry and everybody in the industry wants to know what's happening in my market and what does that mean for me down the road?

Abby Burns (11:53):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Morghen, that's super helpful and I think getting the sense for, okay, I now understand what ICHRAs are. I have my hands wrapped around that. They are growing fast. They might not run away with the market tomorrow. Definitely a value proposition for them, but it sounds like they're not necessarily right for every use case.

(12:10):
With the rest of our time, I want to dig into some of the nuance around what the attitudes and reactions are among some of the key stakeholders we've been talking about and how we think they should be thinking about ICHRAs. And my goal here is really for listeners to walk away feeling like they're both up to speed on what ICHRAs are and have an informed view on how it might impact them and whether it's something they need to be closely monitoring for their organization.

Morghen Philippi (12:38):
Yeah. Abby, before we get to that point, I actually think we should deep dive into where exactly ICHRAs are growing and what employers are really seeing ICHRAs as a great option for them right now.

Abby Burns (12:50):
I think that's a great place to start.

Morghen Philippi (12:51):
When ICHRAs first hit the market in 2020, I mean, think back to 2020, it was a big year for the whole world, we were starting a global pandemic, not the best time for something new to hit the market and the healthcare landscape. So ICHRAs we're kind of slow to start, and as things from the pandemic calmed down, ICHRAs have really started to heat up. People are paying attention and it's interesting to look at who's paying attention to them, what employers are really saying, "Yep, ICHRAs are the thing from me right now."

Abby Burns (13:20):
Yeah, that's actually a question that I had, Morghen, because I'm a little confused what part of the employer market these are serving.

Morghen Philippi (13:26):
Yeah. So when ICHRAs first debuted, everyone thought that small employers were going to be the big market for ICHRAs, largely because small employers are really tight on their finances, right?

Abby Burns (13:36):
Mm-hmm.

Morghen Philippi (13:36):
They don't have a lot of wiggle room, and so if they could use an ICHRAs to, A, set their own limit, and maybe use an ICHRA as their first time getting into the health benefits space, that was going to be really appealing. And that has largely been true. In fact, about 83% of employers offering ICHRAs are new to offering health benefits.

Abby Burns (13:57):
Wow!

Morghen Philippi (13:58):
So it's actually really exciting. It's a great option for folks looking to get into the health benefits game.

(14:04):
However, we've also seen this growing segment of large employers who are interested in ICHRAs, and I think that's something not a lot of folks anticipated would happen. In fact, large employers are the fastest-growing segment within ICHRAs, which once again, keep in mind we're talking about small numbers here, right?

Abby Burns (14:21):
Sure.

Morghen Philippi (14:22):
So the fastest-growing segment within a small-number game.

Abby Burns (14:26):
I think, Morghen, when you said, "Small employers are using ICHRAs to start offering health benefits for the first time," that's a huge change. How are large group employers thinking about it? Because they've already been required to offer health benefits.

Morghen Philippi (14:39):
Large groups are really looking at ICHRAs because they're flexible. Essentially, a large employer can say things like, "I'm going to give traditional group insurance to my salaried workers, and I'm going to give an ICHRA to my other workers," or, "I'm going to give traditional group insurance to everybody that's working at my headquarters, but for my 25% of remote workers I have across the US, I'm going to give an ICHRA." So there's this flexibility within ICHRAs that is really appealing to certain employers, especially large employers.

Abby Burns (15:12):
Yeah, that's interesting. I mean, that feels like a new challenge dynamic for employer HR to navigate. Do we have thoughts on the equity implications there?

Morghen Philippi (15:23):
Yeah, I think that there are two sides to this coin as there always seems to be, Abby. I think if you look at it as there are folks getting access to essentially employer-sponsored insurance that didn't have it before, before, these employees were on their own, their employer wasn't offering health benefits to them, you know-

Abby Burns (15:41):
That was for hourly employees at large employers?

Morghen Philippi (15:43):
Yeah. So I think if you're looking at large employers, maybe there's some health equity aspects to that of were those hourly folks getting traditional group before? Is ICHRA an equivalent? Do they feel like they're getting as good of service? I think that time will tell how those folks feel about it and what happens with their healthcare.

Abby Burns (17:21):
Morghen, I'm also curious about the employee side of this question. Do employees actually like ICHRAs?

Morghen Philippi (17:28):
That's a really interesting question, Abby, and I think it depends is my very vague initial answer. I would say in the beginning when ICHRAs were first launched, there were a lot of barriers on the employee side, largely in that reimbursements were kind of slow. So like we talked about, the employees would go spend money on healthcare, they would have this premium payment, and then it was taking a couple months for them to get a reimbursement. No one wants to wait a couple months for their money back. That stinks. No one liked that. So that was definitely a hurdle. Employees weren't loving that.

(18:03):
I would say a lot of vendors have come into that space now and made that process a lot more seamless, a lot more efficient, and that's definitely made it a more pleasurable experience for those consumers, for those employees.

(18:16):
I would say that employees are still having to go into the individual marketplace and find their own insurance and there's definitely a perk to that, but when you're looking at a shelf of 90 different plans that you can choose from and you don't know, "Which plan has my preferred provider in network? How do I figure out all those things?" you can be overwhelmed on a consumer. We have good data showing that consumers feel a bit overwhelmed when they're looking at all those options.

Abby Burns (18:42):
Right. And we know that consumerism in healthcare has not manifested the way that we might have thought 10 years ago.

Morghen Philippi (18:48):
Absolutely. I would also say that people don't always like change. I don't know about you, but it tends to be human nature that change is hard. And so when you're moving from a traditional group setting into an ICHRA, that's a big transition to go from, "Hey, my employer was giving me all of these things handed to me. These are my three options. I only had so much choice, but I knew it was settled," to doing all of it on your own, it feels like, can be kind of hard.

(19:16):
But I will say that today, as we talked about, most of the employers in the ICHRA space are offering health benefits for the first time. And so when those employees are ending up in the individual marketplace, once they're there, they get over this initial hurdle of getting in an ICHRA, they really like it.

Abby Burns (19:33):
Yeah, so we see some segmentation across type of employer in dictating employee preference.

Morghen Philippi (19:40):
Absolutely. Yeah. And I think some of this, as we keep talking about, Abby, ICHRAs are really new. And so as employers figure this out, as plans figure this out, as vendors figure this out, I think that it's going to become more and more seamless for those end consumers and going to potentially drive up that likeability.

Abby Burns (19:57):
Morghen, you mentioned the payers. Let's talk about them. They're the ones that are actually offering these plans. When you're out in the market talking to plans and ICHRAs come up, what are their reactions?

Morghen Philippi (20:09):
This is a huge conversation in the plan world, and I would say that for now, plans tend to fall into three different buckets. So I'm going to start with this first bucket as the wait-and-see bucket. These are plans who have come to us and they've said, "You know, we hear all this hype about ICHRAs. We look at the data on them every week, we cycle back in our strategy meeting, and we don't see what all the hype's about. Why are we talking about this?" Those are the plans that are going to sit, they're going to wait and see what ICHRAs do, do they take off in the market, and specifically in their market, what's happening?

Abby Burns (20:43):
Okay, so is it fair to call that group the skeptics?

Morghen Philippi (20:46):
Yeah, definitely. They don't see what all the talks about for now.

Abby Burns (20:49):
Great. What's the second group?

Morghen Philippi (20:51):
Yeah, so the second group are pursuing ICHRAs because they have to. They're a bit reluctant, but they know they have to get in the ICHRA game or they're going to be left behind. So here it's important to think about how things work from a plan perspective. So often, plans are offering multiple lines of business, right?

Abby Burns (21:10):
Mm-hmm.

Morghen Philippi (21:10):
So you could have small group, you could have large group, you have Medicaid and Medicare, you have individual market, and plans are offering maybe all of those lines of business, maybe just one of them. They might be really strong in one or two, and then the others are just there on the side. And so a lot of these plans that are in the second bucket, they're reluctant but having to do ICHRAs anyway, are maybe really strong in small group.

Abby Burns (21:36):
That feels pretty extreme considering we were talking about the fact that currently there are about 500,000 people covered by ICHRAs.

Morghen Philippi (21:43):
Yeah, I think that there's a bit of fear driving that and hopefully this conversation can help, Abby, but I do think that if those plans are really counting on their small group, that's their really big line of business, it is something that's going to be keeping them up at night right now because they don't really have a different fallback option.

Abby Burns (22:00):
Okay. So we have the skeptics, we have the folks that are reluctantly traipsing into ICHRAs. What's the third group?

Morghen Philippi (22:07):
Yeah, the third group is all in on ICHRAs. They are screaming, "ICHRAs" from the rooftops. They think ICHRAs are the future, or at least they want to convince everybody that ICHRAs are the future.

Abby Burns (22:18):
Who's in this group of plans?

Morghen Philippi (22:20):
Yeah, so these are the folks that maybe have a really strong individual line of business, and so they're really focused here anyway. They would love to drive as many folks as they can into the individual market, which in ICHRA, is a great way to do that, right? Some of these plans might also not have another option for strategy. Maybe they don't have those other lines of business and so they're like, "Hey, it better be ICHRAs because we need it to work."

Abby Burns (22:47):
What were they doing before 2020 if they don't have other lines of business?

Morghen Philippi (22:52):
Yeah, they were really just focused on the individual market, or maybe some of them are newer to the plans space and really building things up.

Abby Burns (22:59):
Morghen, as payers are looking at what's going on with ICHRAs, what's happening in their market in particular, they're weighing decisions around, "Should I be trying to get into the ICHRAs game?" what inputs are they using? What is informing that decision-making?

Morghen Philippi (23:13):
Some of this is going to depend on individual markets. So state by state, it's going to be a different equation for what's cheaper, an individual market plan or a traditional group plan. And if the traditional group plan is cheaper, ICHRAs probably aren't going to take off there yet. But if that premium for the individual plan is cheaper, ICHRAs are a pretty good option there. And so plans should be asking themselves, "What does that look like within my own state?"

(23:39):
And then if they are in one of those second or third buckets, they're either reluctantly pursuing or they're all in, "We're cheering on about ICHRAs," they should be thinking, "Do we have the internal infrastructure to employ an ICHRA really well?" Because as we mentioned, this is between lines of businesses for plans. It's not quite traditional group insurance and it's not quite individual market, and so plans aren't having to rethink things. They're having to say, "Even our financial sheets are not set up for ICHRAs. We have these in two separate lines of business within our company and we need these to talk to each other." So they should really be asking, are they set up for it?

Abby Burns (24:19):
Morghen, we have three sort of buckets of the ways that plans are reacting to the emergence of ICHRAs. If we think about the plan landscape, what proportion of plans fall into each of those buckets?

Morghen Philippi (24:34):
Yeah, that's a really good question, Abby. And I think that it's going to continue to change over time just because ICHRAs are so new. I do think that more plans will start moving from that wait-and-see category. They're going to see and they're going to stop waiting. They're going to move into bucket two or three depending on what their strategies look like.

(24:52):
But you know, I would say that the all-in-on-ICHRAs is still a pretty small percentage. I would throw 10% of plans out there, and then I would maybe call the other buckets 45 and 45. 45% are wait and see, and 45% are like, "Okay, I guess we have to do ICHRAs."

(25:10):
So Abby, we've talked about employers, we've talked about employees, we've talked about plans. I think a group that we really need to add to this conversation is providers.

Abby Burns (25:19):
Yes.

Morghen Philippi (25:19):
When we first started talking about ICHRAs at Advisory Board, honestly, we weren't really thinking about the provider space. This feels very plan-centric. And providers started coming to us saying, "Hey, we're hearing about ICHRAs. What does this mean?" And we had to say, "Oh, shoot, you're right. We should be having these conversations with you providers," right?

Abby Burns (25:38):
Yeah. Morghen, I think that makes so much sense. I mean, if I'm a provider, the questions on my mind are, "Is this going to fundamentally reshape the employer-sponsored insurance market? And if so, how?" And those are really big, potentially scary questions.

Morghen Philippi (25:53):
Yeah. Once again, I think that it's really a state-by-state, market-by-market basis how ICHRAs are going to roll out and grow. And so I think that every provider should be pausing and asking themselves, "What do ICHRAs look like in my specific market? What does the growth of ICHRAs mean for me?" And that's really going to mean looking at your reimbursements and say, "Hey, if I have more folks who are coming to me from the individual market side of things than there have been in the past, what does that mean for my bottom line?" That's really the question here.

(26:26):
But I think some of the providers who have come to us have been worried because they think that this is going to be a bunch of folks moving from traditional group to the individual market, and they were worried that they were going to end up with lower reimbursements. But like we talked about, a lot of these employers are offering health benefits for the first time. So it might be that these providers are actually seeing fewer uninsured patients and seeing more folks in the individual market, so it's not all doom and gloom for providers.

Abby Burns (26:58):
Morghen, as we wrap up, I want to name a question that has been percolating in the back of my mind, and I'm guessing many people's minds, and that's about the wider implications ICHRAs might have on the future of insurance in the US. We talked about ICHRAs being a movement from defined benefit to defined contribution. Behind that more technical language, we're essentially saying, on a surface level, this feels like a movement away from insurance being tied to employment.

Morghen Philippi (27:33):
Yeah, in some ways, it is. In some ways it is, Abby, and that's one of honestly the big perks for the end employee is that if you are in an ICHRA, you choose a plan and then you leave your place of employment, you can still choose that plan. You're just not getting that employer's allowance going towards that plan. And so that's a big perk, and I do think it is going to decouple employment from health insurance, but like we talked about, I think that there's a limit on ICHRA growth. I don't think that these are going to completely change the market overnight. I think that traditional group employer-sponsored insurance is going to continue. We have entire systems built around this traditional employer-sponsored insurance. I don't think that that's going to change very quickly.

Abby Burns (28:22):
And I do think that keeping a pulse on the numbers here is super helpful, right? We're talking about the individual market is about 22 million people right now. ICHRAs are about 500,000, so that is a helpful sense of scale.

(28:35):
Bringing us to the present, Morghen, what is your parting advice for how listeners should be thinking about ICHRAs right now, and what are you watching for in the months to come?

Morghen Philippi (28:47):
I've been hearing a lot of fear around ICHRAs, a lot of like, "This is new. Oh my gosh. Is it going to change the whole world? What is it going to mean for me?" Stop, take a breath. Hopefully this conversation helped.

(28:58):
Second, I think I would just be looking at our individual markets, right? So if you're in New York, look at the New York market. Look and say, "What is the individual premium versus a traditional group rate?" Then I would look at if I see ICHRAs as something that's going to grow in my area in the near future, ask, "Okay, is there any advantage to me getting on board quickly and first, or can I wait and see?"

Abby Burns (29:26):
Yeah. Well, Morghen, thank you for coming on Radio Advisory.

Morghen Philippi (29:31):
It was a delight, Abby. I hope I'm back here soon.

Abby Burns (29:40):
Whether you just heard the term ICHRA for the first time, or it's been something that's been on your mind, maybe even giving you some anxiety, I hope you're walking away from this conversation feeling like you have a pulse on this market and what it means for you because remember, as always, we're here to help.

(30:18):
New episodes drop every Tuesday. If you like Radio Advisory, please share it with your networks, subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, and leave a rating and a review.

(30:28):
Radio Advisory is a production of Advisory Board. This episode was produced by me, Abby Burns, as well as Rae Woods, Chloe Bakst, and Atticus Raasch. The episode was edited by Katy Anderson with technical support provided by Dan Tayag, Chris Phelps, and Joe Shrum. Additional support was provided by Leanne Elston and Erin Collins. Special thanks to Sally Kim.

(30:48):
We'll see you next week.