00:00:02.59 Mark McCracken There we go. where're We're off. 00:00:03.48 Michael you 00:00:04.54 Mark McCracken Cheers. 00:00:04.86 Michael Cheers everyone. Happy Thursday. 00:00:06.85 Fredrik cheers Cheers. 00:00:08.68 Mark McCracken Happy Thursday. What have we got to drink, Michael? 00:00:11.53 Michael Well, I woke up this morning and I was immediately sick. 00:00:15.88 Mark McCracken So you hit the booze early. 00:00:18.08 Michael So so instead of having one of my 10% stouts, I've come for a 4% blood orange jubel beer, which is lovely. I might regret it though. 00:00:26.93 Mark McCracken Very nice. 00:00:28.27 Michael So if I suddenly run off mid 00:00:29.19 Mark McCracken Possibly, yeah. 00:00:30.16 Michael mid recording you know it's a what is it so it's like a fruity one say yeah it's nice yeah we'll see what happens say what's everyone else got oh yeah at the same at the same time or okay 00:00:30.17 Fredrik Is that an ale or an IPA or what kind of beer is it? 00:00:36.06 Fredrik Ah, nice. Lovely. 00:00:38.48 Mark McCracken Lovely. a I've got a Budvar, which I didn't buy. My friend bought it yesterday. We have a little jam in here, and it went great. But we ah didn't have any more than... 00:00:49.32 Mark McCracken We only had one instrument, so we just had to share. So it we just took it in turns. No, no, we just took it in turns. you know like Whenever you're a kid and you're playing Call of Duty and you're like, well, it's a one-player game, so we're just going to pass the controller around with bass. 00:01:01.11 Michael here 00:01:03.02 Mark McCracken So yeah, that was good. and but he he he bought some beers and I lost my nice tasty beer. So I've got a ah Budvar, which is kind of Budweiser, but it's ah really tasty. 00:01:12.46 Fredrik It looks like ah like these traditional ah knockoff brands that you've seen in these mean and real videos. 00:01:13.88 Mark McCracken Yeah, Czech beer. 00:01:20.12 Mark McCracken It was a cheap corner shop, so um yeah. 00:01:22.69 Fredrik Could explain it. 00:01:23.22 Michael What have you got Fred? 00:01:24.78 Fredrik So I am enjoying myself probably one of the most famous Swedish lagers, which is called Maristad. 00:01:30.36 Mark McCracken Hmm. 00:01:30.67 Michael Okay. 00:01:31.65 Fredrik Not even sure. I think it's still produced in Sweden, but it's surely not produced in Maristad anymore. It's probably made by the Coca-Cola company about this point. but it's a 00:01:41.17 Michael didn he Didn't you fancy an omni pollo? 00:01:43.60 Fredrik I actually yeah enjoyed myself an Onipolo two weeks ago, um since it's a Swedish brand. You usually have them in the stores. 00:01:50.69 Michael They're about 15 quid though, so it's definitely a treat. 00:01:53.63 Fredrik They're really, really expensive. But on the other hand, if you don't drink that often, which I rarely do these days, unfortunately, because I really do enjoy it. 00:01:55.02 Michael yeah 00:02:00.66 Mark McCracken Yeah, don think but don't think that would work for for me anyway. 00:02:03.94 Fredrik no 00:02:05.35 Michael It's quite be a big so big session on those and you spend 100 quid. 00:02:06.87 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:02:10.26 Mark McCracken We're having a six-pack and we're breaking the bank. 00:02:12.27 Michael Yeah. 00:02:13.64 Fredrik But at least you got to make sure to enjoy them. I think that's ah the the most important thing. 00:02:15.72 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:02:17.77 Michael Yeah. 00:02:18.34 Mark McCracken um Yeah, I've i been having a terrible afternoon. I um ah got home, is the downside of of garden offices, got home and I thought, right, let's go, podcast time, get it all ready. And I walked out and and a fox had shit on my garden path. 00:02:30.86 Michael Oh no. 00:02:32.35 Mark McCracken And I walked it straight in here and I was like, shit, that's a lot of shit. 00:02:36.85 Michael They're really, they're really, I don't think any shit is nice, but a fuck shit. 00:02:40.03 Mark McCracken No. 00:02:40.50 Michael the fox shit is really violent so it's really horrible today today we we we we're having this chat at work they they uh i remember phil who we both know was saying that they there's there's something about them it's like there's something deliberate and and like where they do it it's like it's like a fuck you like like when you do a step rule 00:02:41.94 Mark McCracken And I walked in and it was dark and I didn't turn the light on straight away. And then before you know it, I've got like 10 steps of like the smallest amount of shit everywhere. And I'm like, that was not happy. 00:03:02.33 Mark McCracken Yeah I remember but but when when I bought my first ever house on day one getting the keys I'm like yes get the keys let's go open the door and catch it day one straight straight into the house like first steps I took into the house so like great catch it and obviously having just got into a complete shell of an empty room I didn't have anything to clean it with I was like 00:03:15.29 Michael Nice. Lovely. 00:03:24.71 Michael but So what did you do? 00:03:24.73 Mark McCracken Fuck, we have to go get some toilet roll. I think we think we had to go to the corner shop and buy some toilet rolls and some stuff like first purchase. 00:03:28.64 Michael Uh, yeah. 00:03:30.70 Mark McCracken But yeah. Anyway. um Yeah. 00:03:33.59 Michael Introductions. Hey, how are you with a J? 00:03:34.96 Mark McCracken Well. 00:03:35.78 Michael It's Fred from Sweden. 00:03:37.18 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:03:37.39 Fredrik Yes, this is my friend from Sweden. 00:03:37.94 Michael Yeah. 00:03:39.46 Fredrik Shall I do a quick introduction maybe of myself and why I'm actually on the on the call since Michael was keen to inviting me? 00:03:41.65 Mark McCracken Go on then. Yeah. 00:03:46.70 Michael Yeah. 00:03:46.79 Fredrik Yes, so a quick introduction about myself. My name is Fredrik, born and raised and currently living in the middle of Sweden. Now, the thing about Sweden is it's a very long country and we if you think of it from a stereotypical perspective, you usually think of maybe snow and darkness and if you watch Game of Thrones, it's g literally beyond the wall. It's ah it's a very interesting nature. 00:04:11.13 Fredrik beautiful in the summer but very dark and cold during the winter time but it's a very long counter it's almost 1600 kilometers long ah compared to its width which is almost 500 kilometers So when we refer to living in middle of Sweden, I think majority of the population refers to actually the quarter down the path of Sweden, because majority of the people actually lives in the bottom half of the entirety of the country. 00:04:39.14 Fredrik So middle of Sweden, for me, is more referring to the middle of the lower part or the lowest half. 00:04:45.32 Mark McCracken So is there like a lot going on in the middle of Sweden or is it like there's nothing here? 00:04:49.64 Fredrik It's mostly forests, elks, and ah more forests. That's pretty much it. 00:04:54.37 Mark McCracken And you... 00:04:54.70 Michael So how dark is it like so about now, if you're in the top of Sweden, you've got darkness all day, right? 00:05:01.70 Fredrik Yes, um in its peak, In the northern Sweden, ah you actually don't see the sun for a couple of weeks at all. 00:05:11.61 Mark McCracken Really? 00:05:11.74 Fredrik You see it? Yeah, no. You have some lights in the horizon, so it gets semi-bright during a couple of hours throughout throughout the day. 00:05:16.28 Mark McCracken Lighter. Yeah. But the sun's not up. 00:05:18.61 Fredrik But no, the sun's not up. Whereas in the summer, it's the complete opposite. If you travel really far up north in the middle of summers, you can actually see the sun ah going down to the horizon, but not below the horizon. 00:05:28.94 Mark McCracken It comes back up. 00:05:31.08 Fredrik And then it just yeah comes back up. 00:05:32.94 Michael and and And it drives people like crazy isn't it? Or it can. Like people, it really fucks with you. Like, what do you say? 00:05:38.08 Fredrik Yeah I mean imagine living in this in summers it's constantly bright and in the winters constantly dark. 00:05:41.01 Michael Yeah. 00:05:43.24 Fredrik We usually have a saying that northern people gets very depressed and I can see why because then you really need to adapt themselves constantly to this. So I'm very happy to live in southern part where it's not that extreme. 00:05:53.51 Mark McCracken And you've you've always lived in Sweden? 00:05:55.65 Fredrik Yes I've always lived in Sweden. um I'm 32 years of age so I was actually trying to convince myself to move abroad a couple of years back but then 00:05:57.90 Mark McCracken So it's just too lovely. 00:06:06.08 Fredrik It's just too lovely. And life came in the way with every with opportunities and everything. So I stayed. 00:06:11.78 Mark McCracken So have you ever met Michael in person? 00:06:14.21 Fredrik Yes. Fortunately, I have. 00:06:18.31 Mark McCracken It's just an internet romance. 00:06:18.32 Michael ah you've made You've made me think of things now. 00:06:21.17 Fredrik No, me and Michael, we, what is it? No, Michael, we go back two years, something like that. 00:06:24.87 Michael No, it's probably like double that. 00:06:30.01 Fredrik Yeah. 00:06:30.19 Michael I think when you actually look at it, you're like, oh my God, it's like been four or five years. 00:06:32.58 Fredrik No, you're right. 00:06:33.08 Michael and 00:06:33.99 Fredrik So we started to work together post the pandemic ah in Dallas, in a team called Deliver Engineering. 00:06:41.17 Mark McCracken So when you joined, was it already called Bali's? 00:06:44.35 Fredrik So I was part of a merger that former, before we came to Dallas, we were a company called, Mike always came from Gamesys, and I came from a company called Jackbook Joy. And there was an acquisition that took place that merged these companies together, which eventually became Dallas as a company. 00:07:01.16 Fredrik So we kind of joined forces on a company level when we merged the Jackbook Joy and Gamesys together. And this was back in... 00:07:07.88 Mark McCracken And the Swedish version of Jackpot Joy, because I used to, Michael and I used to work together and I also worked in Jackpot Joy at some point, but the UK version. 00:07:14.66 Michael Yeah, it's like, no, that's hard. 00:07:14.77 Fredrik the No, yeah, it's and's it's it's a weird thing. 00:07:15.94 Michael It's like, you stole it. 00:07:16.41 Mark McCracken yeah Yeah. 00:07:18.61 Michael Yeah. 00:07:19.10 Fredrik All the brand, the brand was bought out and then was bought back and the company group was named, it was a it's weird thing. 00:07:23.69 Mark McCracken Yeah. Yeah. So what did you and Michael do together? 00:07:27.06 Fredrik We did, I would say, probably DevOps in a more software-oriented way. so So it was very trying to make infrastructure as much as possible automated and work as much as possible the infrastructure as code. 00:07:32.61 Mark McCracken Very nice. 00:07:40.99 Fredrik So we became the delivery engineering team. Were you the one to actually form that team, Michael? Were you just tossed into it like, here's a team, here you go. 00:07:48.81 Michael Uh, no, I think, I think, I think the, the, the, they always had that team in mind because it's basically like a platform engineering team. But I think at the time there's already at least three other platform engineering teams. 00:08:00.71 Michael So they, they had to come up with a new name and it's just at one point it looked like that name was going to take off. Like there was, there was a, like Apple had a delivery engineering team. 00:08:11.75 Michael But if you, if you go and look for deliver engineering, now you get one or two hits and then you get a lot of stuff about like delivering actual stuff. 00:08:12.25 Fredrik you know 00:08:18.27 Michael Like someone someone made a job application to join our team and it was like, they'd literally been a delivery driver. It was just so good. 00:08:28.89 Michael They must've read the job spec and gone, yep, I'm ready, I'm ready. 00:08:30.45 Mark McCracken Anyone with a pulse? 00:08:33.84 Michael But no, it was give us, I fond memories of it, I really enjoy it. I love i love all that stuff, so it's good, isn't it? 00:08:40.06 Fredrik Yeah. Yeah. 00:08:40.66 Mark McCracken What kind of tools did you use? 00:08:44.10 Michael And so, 00:08:45.33 Fredrik Ansible, um Terraform, Python. 00:08:46.26 Mark McCracken Lots of Ansible. 00:08:49.07 Michael JFrog, I know Mark's not a fan. 00:08:50.89 Mark McCracken fucking JFrog. My hatred of JFrog stems from one particular thing. I was using JFrog at some point because I'm sure Bartek told me to use JFrog. ah put Put your artifacts in here. And for whatever reason, I couldn't work out what it was doing wrong because it kept saying, 00:09:07.07 Mark McCracken ah 503 error. It was giving me this error occurred 503 and it got really pissed off that eventually saying this should definitely be working and went to Ian Reeves to do like next level investigation, look at the logs for what's going on when I make this request. 00:09:20.89 Mark McCracken And he eventually found out that it was a 404 request that was being redirected and and turning turning into a 503. And I was like, that's the worst the worst thing I've ever seen. Like that is so obfuscated. 00:09:30.07 Michael and 00:09:31.43 Mark McCracken Like how was I supposed to know that this wasn't working? 00:09:33.83 Michael and and And then a few companies on you were storing your artifacts in confidence. 00:09:33.95 Mark McCracken ah 00:09:37.60 Mark McCracken yeah that 00:09:38.94 Michael Did you feel better or worse? 00:09:39.71 Mark McCracken i did I never, I didn't store the artifacts myself in Confluence. 00:09:44.44 Michael Okay. 00:09:45.68 Mark McCracken I just got there and that's what they were doing. 00:09:47.50 Michael Okay, I probably shouldn't laugh. 00:09:47.65 Mark McCracken And I said, this is, yeah, don't laugh. But that was pretty messed up too. 00:09:52.28 Michael Okay. 00:09:52.79 Mark McCracken But yeah, even Confluence was better than JFrog's. So JFrog's lowered my list of things that I like. 00:09:58.77 Michael ah fer 00:09:59.14 Mark McCracken Just because of that one small incident that took me about two days and I was like, I don't know. 00:10:00.88 Michael Yeah. I think that' so that's all it takes sometimes, right? and it's 00:10:05.05 Fredrik yeah JFrog was a really interesting product to work with. Good and bad, I'd say. I don't know the experience you had, Michael, but looking back to it, I haven't worked with JFrog since I left the Malice. 00:10:09.80 Michael You haven't. 00:10:15.18 Fredrik But it was with mixed feelings, having knowing and working with that product. 00:10:15.48 Michael We have. OK. 00:10:18.78 Fredrik And I wonder, would I ever want to work with that product product again? Maybe. 00:10:24.08 Michael I actually reached out to them when when I and left Bally's. I was like, Do you want me? like i mean they but in ah Not particularly, but I put my name forward today. 00:10:33.05 Fredrik Really? 00:10:33.62 Mark McCracken like like you I was in like you had a close relationship with somebody at JFrog. Not semi, but yeah. 00:10:41.54 Michael If you're on the lookout for someone, then I don't know. I kind of look back now and I think, do you would you want to work for a product? 00:10:52.13 Michael Because if someone doesn't want that product, 00:10:55.81 Mark McCracken Do you want to work for it? 00:10:57.41 Michael No, no, but but do you like, have you, have you tied yourself to one particular thing and then it goes out of fashion and because things that, I mean, I guess you, I guess you don't just do JFrog stuff, right? You have to work with, I think it was a, what kind of role was it? 00:11:08.29 Michael Like a solutions architect. So you had to go in and go, oh, you're a, may even use, you're a gradle user, you use pugging face and stuff. So, um, yeah, imagine doing loads of JFrog work and then everyone's like, nah, we don't want JFrog. 00:11:20.40 Mark McCracken That'd be pretty, pretty dire, right? You gotta, you gotta read out a bunch of stuff. 00:11:22.15 Michael Yeah. 00:11:24.68 Mark McCracken Let me learn the exact same concepts, but slightly different. 00:11:24.81 Michael Yeah. 00:11:27.67 Michael Exactly, yeah. What is the big thing now? What's everyone using? 00:11:31.39 Fredrik Wow, that's a really good question. um 00:11:33.04 Mark McCracken That's a good question. I don't know. I just use whatever, I just use whatever Google offers. 00:11:34.26 Michael Harbor? 00:11:36.75 Mark McCracken I'm like, I just, I want the simplest, most cloud integrated thing that's already there. 00:11:36.82 Michael Yeah. 00:11:40.40 Mark McCracken I want the least amount of hassle and I don't care if it's amazing or what has it. 00:11:40.59 Michael Yeah. 00:11:43.60 Mark McCracken Just store my thing there and give it back to me later. 00:11:43.86 Michael Yeah. Yeah, yeah, fair enough. 00:11:46.90 Fredrik Funny you should ask, I was actually looking just a couple of weeks back for our company Storage Solutions for ah artifact images, especially OCI images, and I came to realize that if you look, depending of course the sizing of your company, the sizing of your needs, you still have the bigger players in the market that has been around for years, like you have Docker Hub, you have GitHub, 00:12:08.06 Fredrik what's called GitHub packages and and all of this. 00:12:09.65 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:12:09.95 Michael Yeah. 00:12:10.92 Fredrik So it hasn't really changed much in the past few years as it seems by scouting the markets. So I think it's really down to the size of your business and size to your needs really. 00:12:21.89 Fredrik I mean, JFrog was a beast and you could tell it was really enterprise oriented because they came with all these other packages, not just JFrog. 00:12:29.23 Mark McCracken Because it's really developer unfriendly from day one, is that it? 00:12:31.97 Fredrik but Maybe, maybe. So I think you have to look at it from the perspective of what's the needs of the business and the customer and that actually buys the product at the end of the day. And of course, if you were looking to work for that tank kind of company, then of course those would be your typical customers. So if that's not really your gig to try to work with big enterprises, then well, maybe not the case, but if you really want to work with big enterprises buying the product and trying to convince them to buy the product, then yeah, sure. 00:13:01.86 Michael so um so So you, I'm guessing from that, you felt like obviously the place you left, it was when you left, it was a big enterprise. And now you've got a new job, right? Or newish. 00:13:10.87 Fredrik Yes. 00:13:11.46 Michael Yeah. 00:13:11.81 Fredrik So the company that I and Michael worked together in, I joined that company soon to be 10 years ago and I departure this spring. 00:13:24.27 Fredrik When I joined the first company 10 years ago, we were approximately 20 people in the local office, 200 in the entire organization. Then it grew to ballasts. And when I actually departure, where are we? 00:13:37.99 Fredrik 100 something in the local office. So we multiplied fifty fivefold. And globally in ballasts, we're a couple of thousands. 00:13:46.79 Michael millions. 00:13:46.88 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:13:47.47 Michael It's just massive, right? 00:13:49.01 Fredrik So it was quite different coming to a team consisting of a total of six people. 00:13:49.09 Michael Yeah. 00:13:54.00 Fredrik ah going to a classical, I would say classic traditional startup. It was a really refreshing feeling, a bit weird at first, but it didn't take long before getting into it again, I realized. I really miss this. 00:14:06.28 Fredrik for a lot of reasons. I mean, there are pros and cons working in big companies and working in smaller companies, as always, especially if you've been doing both. 00:14:07.50 Mark McCracken yeah 00:14:14.39 Fredrik You know where the benefits are, you know also where the struggles are. 00:14:17.85 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:14:17.99 Fredrik Smaller companies, you can't really rely on someone else doing the job for you. As Michael said, when we were in development engineering, we had dedicated DevOps teams, we had infrastructure teams. You knew that there were always someone to cover for you in case you were to get sick or anything. 00:14:30.29 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:14:32.40 Fredrik In a smaller companies, you don't really have that. ah 00:14:35.59 Mark McCracken Yeah, there's ah nowhere to hide. 00:14:37.22 Fredrik No, exactly. So you need to be kind of creative and be quite aware about the company and the the role you're playing in the company. 00:14:44.26 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:14:44.73 Fredrik But for me, that suits me perfectly. So I'm really happy with my transition. 00:14:48.26 Michael do do you Do you feel like you've, do you feel like you've scaled up massively? Cause you've had to, you know, like who's the network person? 00:14:52.64 Fredrik Yes. 00:14:54.41 Michael Oh, that's you. 00:14:54.80 Mark McCracken wear a lot of hats. 00:14:55.05 Michael Oh, right okay. 00:14:56.27 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:14:56.45 Michael Better learn some stuff. 00:14:58.32 Mark McCracken So that that was that was my experience as well whenever I moved to LiveScore. 00:14:58.49 Michael That's really cool. Yeah. 00:15:01.28 Mark McCracken So it was part of that whole song and dance of Game Sis becomes Ballys, becomes no longer LiveScore. They divested LiveScore. So that's probably why we never crossed paths because I left as Ballys merged. 00:15:13.67 Fredrik Right. 00:15:13.85 Mark McCracken But I moved to LiveScore and they didn't, they had to have like transitional service agreements. during that time. 00:15:20.91 Michael and Yeah. 00:15:21.16 Mark McCracken So it's like, right, you're not separate, but you have to continue to provide HR services and IT services for 18 months until you can build your own team, so to speak. And I kind of got thrown into this data team. 00:15:32.27 Mark McCracken and We're like, we need some infrastructure stuff, CI CD stuff. And and then like, well, we don't have an IT department at all. Like we've got, we got nothing. So, but the people over at games are still responsible for providing this stuff, like for like. 00:15:46.00 Mark McCracken And I said, whoa, whoa, whoa, we don't necessarily want like for like, because then we're going to have to, we're going to have to start a data center. 00:15:48.94 Michael see 00:15:51.38 Mark McCracken And I'm like, that's like, don't do that. That's, you know, do some cloud stuff. But I got to wear a lot of hats while there was no enterprise IT function. 00:15:59.65 Fredrik you know 00:15:59.74 Mark McCracken And that was great. Like, like for learning new stuff and getting, you know, a lot of autonomy, amazing. And really fun. But also, you know, there was a really nice situation where if I'm like, I don't know what the fuck I'm doing. I can just go and ask the Gibbs guys and be like, Michael, please help me out. I've messed it up. 00:16:16.34 Michael it feels yeah it feels maybe maybe start for startup feels like saying everyone should do once in their career just to like experience a massive beast and experience like a tiny place where sick are you still six Fred or six six people okay 00:16:21.31 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:16:26.54 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:16:30.17 Fredrik If I'm still what? 00:16:31.29 Mark McCracken Are there still six people? 00:16:33.49 Fredrik No, we actually increased up to nine people now. So we have three... 00:16:38.01 Mark McCracken Whoa. 00:16:38.48 Fredrik Yeah, I know. No, we actually have grown a little bit further. We are nine people in the local office and we have actually expanded in the in the Asia region ah with a couple of more people. 00:16:41.83 Michael ah yeah 00:16:47.83 Mark McCracken When you say local office, are you going into the office or are you like permanently remote in the midst of Sweden? 00:16:47.84 Fredrik but 00:16:47.96 Michael Okay. 00:16:52.18 Fredrik But... No, we actually have an office in the neighbor town called Huerde. I won't expect you to pronounce it properly. 00:16:59.46 Mark McCracken w That's going in the show notes. 00:17:00.94 Fredrik but the yeah 00:17:01.37 Michael yeah 00:17:01.91 Mark McCracken Miss spelt. 00:17:03.42 Fredrik It's actually the same town where Ballast still has its local office, so it's not really that far off. 00:17:06.37 Mark McCracken Yeah, yeah. 00:17:10.44 Fredrik It's because the founder of both the previous office from Ballis and who's now my new employer, Thomas, he was the one who founded the local office for Ballis before it was Ballis. 00:17:17.69 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:17:22.59 Fredrik And he departed a couple of years back. Now he started this new venture still in the iGaming business. And I re-jump. 00:17:29.65 Mark McCracken And it's going well. 00:17:29.87 Michael See, you must see your old colleagues all the time, right? 00:17:30.56 Fredrik Yeah, it's going well. 00:17:30.75 Mark McCracken Great. wicked 00:17:33.87 Michael If you, like I have been to, where have I done? And it's not a massive place, I think. 00:17:39.05 Fredrik It's not a massive place. 00:17:39.23 Michael You must, yeah. 00:17:39.89 Fredrik I think the population is around 50,000 people in the city. 00:17:44.00 Mark McCracken 50,000 people used to live here and they still do. 00:17:48.24 Fredrik Exactly. No, so it's but it's quite a small community, which is quite nice. I kind of like it. 00:17:53.54 Mark McCracken Yeah, wicked. 00:17:55.93 Michael so So I had to maybe, on to the next topic. So this is my trip to... I went out to Paddies, sorry, managed to meet myself as well. 00:18:17.20 Michael I went out to... 00:18:17.42 Mark McCracken i'm leaving that in that's your fault 00:18:18.20 Michael Yeah, it is... Yeah, I went to Hoofda and Fred was very hospitable and we went out, we took about three buses and got out to Fred's place, where he where he cooked a slap up meal, there's wine, and Fred's probably got the geekiest house that I've ever been to, maybe, like as in, it's it's a bit of a Tony Stark thing going on, right? 00:18:43.84 Mark McCracken I'm leaving that in, that's your fault. 00:18:46.95 Mark McCracken Nice. 00:18:47.71 Michael Yeah, so um yeah, I was ah very impressed with your smart mirror. And then after seeing all the smart stuff in the house, we got taken out into the garage where there are 00:18:57.15 Mark McCracken The experimental, is the garage like the beta house? 00:19:00.33 Michael the garage has got, I mean Fred over to you to tell us about your garage. 00:19:01.38 Mark McCracken It's the testing staging area. 00:19:04.50 Fredrik Now with the garage, I think as most guys, you have this dream as a youngster to have like this man cave um in the garage. 00:19:14.24 Mark McCracken and ah And is the shit all over the floor in the man cave? 00:19:16.60 Michael yes 00:19:17.02 Fredrik No, I before, but I ended up with some equipment, um with with some racing equipment, and I think that was a quite nice addition. I was fortunate enough to have my fiancé supporting me ah to have this as well, otherwise we would never have this present in the garage taking the place. 00:19:26.15 Mark McCracken Nice. 00:19:35.02 Fredrik But, yes. 00:19:36.03 Michael I can't imagine lots of people getting their partners to agree to like three racing simulators in the carriage. like No, three, right? 00:19:41.33 Mark McCracken three Three, I thought it was one. You got you got three racing sims. 00:19:44.70 Michael Four, four. 00:19:44.73 Mark McCracken Four, okay, wow. 00:19:44.83 Fredrik Four. i the The most common question I get when i when asked about if I ever go and try one of them myself, it's rarely. No, I only have them for when I have friends that were playing, ah to have a more more of a like a, whenever we have a local party or just having some beers and having some fun, that's the only thats the one time to actually use them. 00:20:03.69 Mark McCracken That sounds awesome. That sounds awesome, yeah. 00:20:07.85 Fredrik But it was it was actually one of my COVID projects, um acquiring these and renovating them and making them work again. 00:20:14.65 Mark McCracken Yeah. How much does your average racing sim cost? 00:20:20.11 Fredrik I'm disclosing that figure. 00:20:23.62 Mark McCracken So do you like play online competitively? 00:20:25.75 Fredrik ah Rarely actually, I've never been so much of a gamer. I used to do, as amongst youngsters and most teenagers, I used to play a lot of games when I was in my teenage playing Counter-Strike and World of Warcraft and all of this. 00:20:28.56 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:20:35.45 Fredrik But when I grew up into my 20s and I went to uni, that more or less was replaced with heavy drinking and side by side with my studying and since then I more or less left gaming altogether so I've never been competitive with online gaming since. so 00:20:51.41 Michael So so take take history take us through your small house then. 00:20:52.21 Mark McCracken hard to find it time 00:20:55.40 Fredrik Right, so yes, to the topic of the smart home. 00:20:55.65 Michael ah 00:20:57.76 Fredrik so I would actually take like to take some moments to talk about Smart Home and before talking about my house, I would actually like to ask you, what's your definition of a smart home? 00:21:07.90 Michael Oh, that is just a terrible, I can't just put it on the spot like that. 00:21:14.07 Mark McCracken very on the spot. i Your house can do, you can turn on and off pretty much whatever you want and see what's going on at any given point in time, whether you're there or not. 00:21:21.83 Fredrik Yeah. 00:21:23.80 Mark McCracken And you can automate stuff to your pleasing, whatever, whatever it is you want to automate. 00:21:26.88 Michael and maybe even use your voice as well. 00:21:27.97 Mark McCracken Except for the toaster. Yeah. Use your voice. Yeah. 00:21:30.33 Michael Yeah. 00:21:30.72 Fredrik Yeah, I think that's quite a good explanation. And I think it mostly comes from what's available to consumers from the public vendors. Like if you look for vendors like Google, Apple, Amazon, and all the big companies, they have provided us in the past 10 years or so with a lot of smart home technologies, voice assistants, smart bulbs, um ah sensors of any kinds like yeah motion sensors. 00:21:57.62 Fredrik humid answers all of this So, of course, it has kind of added on to this concept of having a smart home and everything connected. And especially since we received the popularity in the world, the digital world of the smartphone and everything being connected to your smartphone, you should control everything with your phone. It kind of has boosted the ah the way of thinking of smart homes as well. 00:22:17.93 Fredrik But I have, throughout the years, tried to get it with a really different type of definition. And my definition of a smart, maybe not so smart home, but a smart devices, any device that is controlled based on an input from a real time variable from one or multiple external entities. 00:22:37.17 Fredrik So to break that down, if you take a radiator for example, a radiator is usually controlled by a thermostat and some type of electronics inside the radiator uses this thermostat to distinguish should I burn more heat or should I stay cold for a while to regulate the temperature. So it's kind of smart in a way that it uses a third-party sensor to make what it's supposed to be doing. 00:23:02.78 Fredrik That, in my view, is actually something that's smart. It takes an external variable and it makes it make an action based out of it. Now, you could argue that because we're now living in this digital world, that a smart product should be something that's connected. 00:23:17.28 Fredrik It should be connected or hooked up to any something, especially something in your network. Something, as you said, that you can control, usually with your phone or with your computer, or it should be automated. 00:23:26.29 Mark McCracken Mm hmm. Yeah. 00:23:28.55 Fredrik and I would say the future and the most primary future is trying to connect all these technologies together. So you have a variety of different um controllable entities and devices that you can control in various ways or automates. 00:23:45.16 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:23:47.28 Fredrik I think that's where the pleasure comes in from smart home automation. 00:23:50.59 Michael Do you remember what the first thing you got is for both of you? And do you remember how you felt? Were you embarrassed? Because I was. One of my friends got a lot of smart bulbs. And I was like, oh, that's really tacky. 00:24:02.83 Michael And then I ended up getting one. 00:24:03.20 Mark McCracken ah so i did I did the same thing. 00:24:04.31 Michael It was like Black Friday or something. I was like, I'll get one. And then I was like, look at this. It's red. It's green. It's yellow. It's like. 00:24:10.28 Mark McCracken I bought four of these Philips Hue Smart Downlighters and they were all the different colours and they were extortionately expensive. 00:24:14.47 Michael Yeah. 00:24:17.62 Mark McCracken I remember people taking a piss out of me because I bought these bulbs at £50. It just meant £200 on bulbs and they were like, what the fuck? 00:24:22.78 Michael Yeah. 00:24:23.84 Mark McCracken You spent £200 on bulbs? um Now I've got like, I've got too many of these bulbs to admit, um but they don't all cost 50 quid. They're a lot cheaper now. 00:24:33.04 Michael Yeah. 00:24:33.32 Mark McCracken But the great thing about this was I had these four bulbs and I had them like in, in like a square shape on my ceiling. as you do it with your bulbs. 00:24:41.43 Michael Yeah, yeah. 00:24:44.39 Mark McCracken It can program them with an API. so i was learning to mi This is before I got into tech and I was learning some iOS stuff and thought maybe I could put this together with Swift. and I managed to make an API that would do two things. It would it would check um the local bus time. So I lived i lived like just between two bus stops. So you could either run forwards and catch the bus or run towards the bus. So you had two choices. And there was a 25 and an 86 route. And I thought, that's four things. There's the left bus and the right bus, which which one you want to go for. There's a 25 and the 86. So I managed to connect to the TFL API and get the time through the buses and then connect to these light bulbs and make them change to the right color. So it would be like purple and work its way down through the rainbow to red. 00:25:23.53 Mark McCracken to be like, you've got if you leave right now, you'll be able to walk to the end of the road and get on that bus on that route. 00:25:28.12 Michael that's very cool. 00:25:28.83 Mark McCracken And I was like, just for that. That that was like that was one of my first phrase into programming before I got a database job. Probably should have stuck me an iOS developer. That'll put me back years. 00:25:38.20 Fredrik I was actually really creative of you to come up with that flow. 00:25:40.77 Mark McCracken Yeah, I was, I was chuffing. 00:25:41.43 Michael but 00:25:42.28 Mark McCracken It was really, it was like the worst UI you've ever seen, but it worked. I was like, this is the shit I ah love programming. This is amazing. Look at these bulbs. I never be like, what's up with the fucking rainbow bulbs? I'm like, the bus is coming, you know. 00:25:55.01 Michael keep Keep the answers to this one, PG, but any favorite lighting scenes in the house? 00:26:00.86 Fredrik Any favorite lighting scenes the most? Probably the most boring, standard, white one. 00:26:03.92 Michael Okay. 00:26:06.56 Mark McCracken So I've got. 00:26:06.62 Fredrik Because it's the one that sees the most. I mean, you can have all this gimmick stuff with multicolor and your entire house being like a a freaking rainbow. 00:26:11.14 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:26:14.23 Fredrik But at the end of the day, you just want lights. 00:26:15.35 Mark McCracken You just want lights, right? and You want them to turn on and off. 00:26:17.31 Michael slides 00:26:18.75 Mark McCracken I've got one that's quite interesting, actually. i've got the So on TV, I really wanted one of those you know you know those TVs that have got like back panel on them. So you've got whatever's on the screen. 00:26:26.37 Michael Yeah, like the Phillips ones, the Ambilight. 00:26:27.71 Mark McCracken And it displays onto the back. 00:26:28.74 Michael Yeah. 00:26:29.62 Mark McCracken I'm like, well, it's too late. 00:26:30.01 Michael Yeah. 00:26:30.56 Mark McCracken I bought the TV now years ago, and I'm not going to change it. 00:26:31.54 Michael Yeah. 00:26:33.37 Mark McCracken So I got one of those things that's stripped that goes around the TV. And the way it works is there's a little tiny camera, like a little arm on top of your TV. And it just looks at the screen with a video and works out what's around the edges. 00:26:42.82 Michael Okay. 00:26:44.61 Mark McCracken And it makes the round the edges like the same color. 00:26:47.21 Michael That's not the Phillips, it's not the Phillips HDMI sync. 00:26:47.30 Mark McCracken But because now it's a govi thing, it's just pretty it's pretty good. 00:26:49.65 Michael thing like Yeah. Okay. Yeah. 00:26:52.43 Mark McCracken But because the TV is like massive, it can't really see the bottom of the screen. So the the color that you get on the bottom of the screen is just what's halfway up the screen. And most of the time it's fine, but you're like, that looks stupid. 00:27:03.20 Michael Yeah. 00:27:03.58 Mark McCracken um But that's quite good. and but one thing is not it's so so But most of the time, we just put it on a light orangey color, and it's it's lovely. 00:27:08.74 Michael yeah 00:27:10.12 Mark McCracken But ive the thing that's really annoyed me with it, this it doesn't first of all, it doesn't integrate with Apple HomeKit, so immediately lose a point. Second of all, my girlfriend has put this automation on it, but for whatever reason, 00:27:21.40 Mark McCracken It's not like shared automation, so I can't see what she's automated. And I can't turn it off. So she's automated to come on and turn off at certain times. And she's away this week. And I'm just like, why is this thing coming on? 00:27:30.43 Michael so 00:27:32.07 Mark McCracken with Did does this be done all night? I didn't turn this on. 00:27:34.22 Michael just Do you think she's just winding you was your first device, Fred? 00:27:36.13 Mark McCracken Yeah, maybe, maybe. I've had a situation before where I've invited somebody to my like hope my smart my Apple Smart Home and said, oh, you're staying for a week. I'll add you to the home. And then they forgot about it. And then two weeks later, they're like turning lights off while I'm asleep. And I'm like, what the fuck are you doing, man? Get out of my fucking Apple Home. 00:27:55.20 Mark McCracken um 00:27:58.04 Fredrik My first device. 00:27:58.18 Michael remember 00:27:59.40 Fredrik Wow. Proprietary device or homemade device. I think that's a quite clear definition. 00:28:03.87 Mark McCracken at the 00:28:04.78 Fredrik Now, the first device probably was a Raspberry Pi. Starting off with doing Stinning Suit or Raspberry Pi. 00:28:08.51 Michael Okay. 00:28:11.09 Mark McCracken I've actually never had this one. 00:28:11.28 Fredrik But it's a smart device. 00:28:12.88 Michael and 00:28:13.03 Mark McCracken What did you do with it? 00:28:15.48 Fredrik You never had Raspberry Pi. i have an ah 00:28:17.24 Mark McCracken I know, I'm quite quite surprised myself there that I've never had one. The closest I had was one of those little build kits and it's like just a really simple nano board and you plug in like LEDs just to kind of learn the basics of use JavaScript to do this Arduino thing. 00:28:30.00 Fredrik Yeah. 00:28:30.11 Mark McCracken But I never had a Raspberry Pi because I was always like, what am I going to do with that? The the the mirror thing sounds awesome though. What did you do with your Raspberry Pi? 00:28:37.28 Fredrik Yes, so the first thing I did with my Raspberry Pi, this was back in 2013, about the same time when, it was actually quite the same time when I acquired my first smart device. so speak It was a life fix bulb. Now you have to think remember and remember that back in 2013, there weren't really much of a smart home. That wasn't really a thing yet. 00:28:58.23 Fredrik ah Apple had released Siri 2011 and that was probably the closest we had so far from some something being smart. At least if you think about from a voice 00:29:08.00 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:29:09.48 Fredrik assistant point of view. ah HomeKit ah wasn't available back then. 00:29:13.90 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:29:13.90 Fredrik It was released in 2014. Amazon Echo 2015 and Google Home 2016. 00:29:17.22 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:29:19.39 Fredrik So the traditional voice assistants were quilt far off and so ah so were the devices. Philips Hue were released, I think it was 2012, something like that. so they And they were like the earliest adopters of getting some kind of smart bulbs on the market. 00:29:33.07 Mark McCracken yeah 00:29:33.42 Fredrik Livix was a Kickstarter and 00:29:35.28 Mark McCracken That's why they were charging 50 quid a bulb motherfuckers. 00:29:37.51 Fredrik Yeah, exactly. 00:29:38.96 Michael like i've got life i've been life 00:29:39.26 Fredrik and actually I actually kickstarted that campaign. I think it took me half a year to get those bulbs. But man, did I have fun. 00:29:47.86 Mark McCracken So what did you do with your Raspberry Pi? 00:29:49.77 Fredrik So the first thing I did with my Raspberry Pi was something that I had been thinking of for around three years. So dating back to 2008, that I would say is the first in my head at least, my first lightbulb when I wanted to do a smart home. 00:30:05.59 Fredrik Because I watched the Marvel movie... 00:30:06.15 Michael I've got life, I've got life. 00:30:06.83 Mark McCracken Are you saying you had a light bulb moment? 00:30:08.74 Michael yeah 00:30:08.83 Fredrik Yeah, I had a lightbulb moment. 00:30:10.24 Michael ah so many times 00:30:10.75 Fredrik And I realized, if this is going to be the future, I want to be a part of it. 00:30:13.23 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:30:14.84 Fredrik The movie Iron Man by Marvel. was released in 2008 with thousand or night with a Robert Donovan Jr. And he has this virtual assistant, AI assistant called Jarvis, which he takes care of his house as an AI virtual assistant controlled by voice. 00:30:24.80 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:30:31.42 Fredrik And it's also the the the the system that controls his suit at the end of the day. 00:30:35.08 Michael Yeah. Well, it's so many times. 00:30:36.35 Fredrik And it was voiced by the British actor Paul Bettany. And he has a really nice, I don't know if you follow him, but he has a really nice semi posh bottler accent when he provides the this character. 00:30:45.43 Mark McCracken Very posh, yeah. 00:30:47.18 Fredrik And it really suits that the ah the character really, really well. And I thought to myself all the back then, if this is probably one of the coolest things I've ever seen, he really, really geeky, extremely geeky. 00:30:58.07 Fredrik It doesn't bring maybe it's so much of value because now we know and in hindsight, we have the Google Home, we have the Amazon Echo and Siri, so we usually know how voice control and where assistance works. 00:31:02.71 Mark McCracken yeah 00:31:11.41 Michael Um, okay. 00:31:11.86 Fredrik But that thing always stuck to my head like, if he can have that home and if that's where the future heading, that's how I want to have my home in the future. 00:31:19.83 Mark McCracken Robot hovers and shit. Nice. 00:31:22.43 Fredrik yes the whole chebang 00:31:25.36 Michael And was that was that when you started on the mirror? or 00:31:28.62 Fredrik No, that one was that was going back now to the Raspberry Pi. The first project was actually a GitHub project called Jasper, which was a very simple text-to-speech and speak-to-text ah translator and synthesizer. 00:31:42.60 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:31:43.04 Fredrik So you can actually do, together with Google's API, who recently, by then, opened up to use voice-to-text, take a command in just by doing voice by you saying, hey, Jasper. 00:31:55.22 Fredrik the commo day The application was called Jasper. And it simply was a predecessor to what Google Home does today. Hey Google, literally that, but completely open source. 00:32:01.57 Mark McCracken Yeah. Yeah. yeah 00:32:05.73 Fredrik So as you know, with early open source works, it was kind of buggy, kind of didn't work sometimes, but it was still, the cool factor was over the roof. 00:32:13.88 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:32:14.37 Fredrik It was amazing. And together then with the Livex bulbs, I started to do some automations with that. 00:32:17.96 Mark McCracken Work it. 00:32:21.20 Fredrik It was so it's quite fun. I was living in my student dorm back then in uni. 00:32:22.91 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:32:26.55 Fredrik So it was a great place to experiment with all this stuff. 00:32:27.76 Mark McCracken Work it. Uh, so how much, you know, have have you expanded your home ecosystem now to have like tons of stuff? 00:32:37.83 Fredrik Yeah. 00:32:38.00 Mark McCracken You got a favorite thing? 00:32:38.11 Fredrik so Oh, a favorite thing. It's probably the mirror. So going back to Michael's thing, there is an open source project called Magic Mirror. I really encourage you to Google it. 00:32:48.82 Fredrik It's a node-based project. 00:32:50.09 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:32:50.48 Fredrik And the idea is that you build a ah mirror based on it. So you have a and regular screen in front of it, a see-through mirror, basically the same types of mirrors that you use in a interrogation rooms. 00:33:01.31 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:33:05.37 Fredrik so 00:33:05.56 Mark McCracken Oh yeah, I got loads of those lying around. 00:33:06.53 Michael yeah yeah yeah 00:33:06.56 Fredrik Yeah. 00:33:08.44 Michael ah sure 00:33:09.50 Fredrik And ah frame it nicely and put it on the wall. And it gives this really, really nice, it's a really, really nice touch to the smartphone feeling because you can have these modules added. So people 00:33:20.60 Mark McCracken So is it like touchy or you've got to do it otherwise? 00:33:23.22 Fredrik You can make it touchy. So ah an old colleague of mine, we actually made one of our each when we did them. 00:33:28.75 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:33:30.20 Fredrik And he actually put a digitizer in front of it. So he actually made his touchable. 00:33:32.64 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:33:34.08 Michael Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:33:35.29 Fredrik I didn't, because I didn't want to have fingerprints on the glass. 00:33:38.92 Mark McCracken fair Fair. 00:33:39.63 Fredrik And now when I think about it, maybe I should have done it. But on the other hand, I've automated in a way that I don't need to. 00:33:44.02 Michael I think the but fingerprints would annoy me, fingerprints would bug me. 00:33:46.99 Mark McCracken Yeah. Yeah, I'd be wiping it all the time. 00:33:48.42 Fredrik Yeah, fingerprints. 00:33:49.60 Michael Yeah. 00:33:50.26 Mark McCracken So what what what does it say? I mean, why why is this mirror any good? Why is it better than ne my shitty mirror? 00:33:55.71 Fredrik So it's because it displays all the information that you need. Since it's no-based and since it's a very, very popular open source project, you have a lot of third-party integrations that other people have created. 00:34:04.50 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:34:05.37 Fredrik So you can have like your local bus timetable on this mirror present. You have the weather from your favorite news and weather station. 00:34:13.16 Mark McCracken Can you integrate like your girlfriend's Ujira ring on it and be like, she is pissed this morning. 00:34:16.37 Fredrik Probably. ah Me and my fiance, we have both our Apple calendars from our iPhones present on this. 00:34:23.38 Mark McCracken Ah, so you can see all the events and stuff while you're brushing your teeth. 00:34:26.19 Fredrik Yes, all the events, and they opted in real time. 00:34:28.54 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:34:28.84 Fredrik ah Quite recently, Intuator as well, the times for the dishwasher, so we can see how much time is so remaining on the dishwasher before it's completed. 00:34:36.80 Michael Wait, wait, wait. 00:34:37.42 Fredrik and the energy Yes, the dishwasher, it's actually a swagger API. 00:34:38.07 Mark McCracken You got a smart dishwasher. 00:34:39.10 Michael Your got an API. 00:34:42.32 Michael Wow. 00:34:44.73 Mark McCracken ah I said, well, but can't be rocket science. instead they They make it. 00:34:47.73 Michael if 00:34:48.41 Mark McCracken Oh, wow. 00:34:49.35 Fredrik Yeah. 00:34:49.40 Mark McCracken That's pretty, how much, how much extra you fork out for like, no, we're looking at the dishwashers. 00:34:50.35 Michael but which Which brand is that? 00:34:54.19 Mark McCracken We're looking at budget brands, 200 premium brands, 400. 00:34:54.39 Michael Yeah. Yeah. 00:34:58.01 Fredrik I didn't meant. 00:34:58.08 Mark McCracken The one with the API 800. 00:35:00.76 Michael I just imagine walking into curry and being like, so what's the What's the API? Is it open? Is it open API v3 or? 00:35:08.76 Mark McCracken Hasn't got graph QL. 00:35:09.92 Michael Yeah. 00:35:10.64 Fredrik Yeah, exactly. 00:35:12.07 Michael Is it really rest or is it kind of? 00:35:13.01 Fredrik Well, I probably, I'm hating to say this, but actually that is actually one of the first things that I'm looking at. 00:35:14.44 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:35:14.91 Michael they 00:35:18.85 Fredrik What's the API availabilities when I'm buying a smart products? 00:35:21.44 Mark McCracken So I bought a tumble dryer a while ago and I was looking at it and some of the tumble dryers are like Wi-Fi connected and I thought, what the fuck do I want that for? What is that going to do for me? Like tell me on my phone that it stopped spinning right next to me. 00:35:36.19 Michael to be every every every reached peak small home or is. 00:35:36.25 Fredrik But now you know. 00:35:40.76 Mark McCracken i yeah i think so i don't think there's any I don't think there's much more places to go. I think the thing that's missing is just a bit more choice in some of the smart stuff, like fans and electric blinds is a big one. 00:35:48.85 Fredrik Yeah. 00:35:51.24 Mark McCracken I would love to have electric blinds, but because only one company has ever bothered their ass to make electric blinds, they've got a monopoly on it and they cost a fortune. So you're like, I'd love electric blinds, but I can't afford them. So maybe I'll make it myself. 00:36:03.00 Mark McCracken I don't got the time. So it's not worth my, it's going to cost me more money in my time to make it than it is to buy it. And it's not worth buying it. 00:36:09.67 Michael Are you see ah you're not buying from this brand out of principle? 00:36:10.30 Mark McCracken So. 00:36:13.35 Mark McCracken ah just because it's so expensive Not even good on a principle. I mean, fair enough. there If they're the only ones and it works and it's great and people like it, maybe it'd be worth it, but it's it was just too expensive. I'm like, I'm not fucking paying for that for Yeah, China. 00:36:23.95 Fredrik I'm happy to tell you them that there are kits that you can buy from China that's around, I think, 50 quid each that you actually can buy. 00:36:29.88 Mark McCracken Go China. 00:36:30.42 Fredrik Yeah. No, but you can buy them from 50 quid each and make a regular dummy blind from any of your favorite, like Ikea or whatever, any kind of blind, regular blind, and make it smart. 00:36:37.98 Mark McCracken Yeah. So. Speaking of China, one of the brands I've got, so so I replaced by Ring Doorbell recently because Amazon, Ring, seems a bit, what are they up to? 00:36:49.22 Mark McCracken Who knows? But that that that didn't bother me so much as the price. Money money is, cash is king, right? So they took their price subscription for, from 3.99 a month to like 5.99 a month and I was like, what the hell? 00:36:59.82 Fredrik Wait, so that's a monthly subscription to have that service. 00:37:02.12 Mark McCracken Yeah, so the ring the ring the ring yeah the video recording. 00:37:02.92 Michael The video record, right? Yeah. 00:37:04.70 Mark McCracken So if you've got a Ring doorbell, you can have it for free, but you can only look at it live. But if you want to record stuff and obviously want to record stuff, you've got to pay a monthly subscription. I went from, they had like, increase price for like 50%. 00:37:17.48 Mark McCracken And I was looking at my Apple Home stuff. And with Apple Home, you can have video recordings. And it's like, it's it's not unlimited. It's like 10 days worth of storage, but unlimited recording in that 10 day space, pretty much. 00:37:28.80 Mark McCracken and it's already bundled into like your iCloud subscription. So if you're only paying 8.99 a month, you get like two cameras worth. If you pay like the cheapest one, you get one camera. You pay the more expensive one, you get two cameras, and you pay the higher one, you get four. 00:37:38.30 Michael and 00:37:39.46 Mark McCracken So I was like, fuck these Ring guys. I'm not having this anymore. So I got rid of it. So so I canceled the Ring, and I bought an Akara. which I've never heard of, which is full-on Chinese stuff. 00:37:47.55 Michael Okay, yeah 00:37:49.57 Mark McCracken But it's been great but because it's integrated with HomeKit. like i've got I've got a HomeKit camera on the front door, but I've also got a HomeKit camera on the back door, which is now a bit pointless because I can just i i can look look at it right now. 00:38:01.04 Mark McCracken I can just see myself in the garden office as a little speck. um But i've got the two camera I've got the camera in the front, camera in the back, and I really like having it on the HomeKit, because everything's nicely integrated, and it's great. If you're watching, like so so I use like Apple TV religiously, and on my main TV, like which, and the TV is like a foot away from the door. 00:38:21.00 Mark McCracken So it's so it's a tad unnecessary. But on the main TV, we're watching Apple TV. Somebody rings the doorbell, it comes up in the top right, no matter what you're doing, it comes up in the top right of the TV. Here, she's at your door, and you instantly see that camera. 00:38:30.83 Michael That's pretty cool. 00:38:31.87 Mark McCracken So that's pretty, 00:38:32.04 Michael And that's, that's a HomeKit thing, is it? Or, uh, yeah. 00:38:33.95 Mark McCracken Yeah, it's a HomeKit thing. If you've got a doorbell and somebody rings it, it'll show up in the top right of your TV and be like, oh yeah, that is the delivery guy. Because who the fuck else is gonna, if I'm sitting watching TV at nine o'clock at night, there's only one person ringing the doorbell. 00:38:44.66 Michael That's, that's 00:38:49.49 Mark McCracken It's the delivery guy. 00:38:51.13 Michael very 00:38:52.70 Mark McCracken So yeah, I got the Acara, but it is very much Chinese, China, China, China, everything China. 00:38:55.89 Fredrik Yeah. 00:38:57.01 Mark McCracken And I was like, better or worse and than Ring. 00:38:58.50 Fredrik I think it's kind of inevitable. Yeah, I think it's kind of inevitable that you will get most of the equipment from China. There are vendors that are operating outside is in Europe and the US to create smart home appliances and products. 00:39:08.00 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:39:11.05 Fredrik But if you're looking for cheap electronics, and I think that's a very important factor for the consumer that wants to buy smart home electronics, it is expensive. 00:39:13.40 Michael Very cool. 00:39:18.96 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:39:19.73 Fredrik Still, you were talking, Michael, about having reached a peak. 00:39:20.54 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:39:23.41 Fredrik I would say not yet, for and for multiple factors, one of them are the costs. 00:39:25.38 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:39:27.88 Mark McCracken Yeah, but what but that that even like the Chinese thing and like I've got a you know preconceived notion that shit from China It'll be crap, but it's been so good the the integration with home kits absolutely fantastic I've basically got 24 7 footage of my front doorbell for 10 days 20 24 10 and that's it um But it's been fantastic and it no No complaints. So i would would I buy from the beginning? Probably. One of the other things I've got that's really interesting from the same brand, or one of the ones from the same brand, is a little tiny infrared blaster. So for stuff that doesn't connect to the internet super well, I've got what's called a switchbot. So it's a little tiny 00:40:04.53 Mark McCracken puck is like two inches by two inches and you just plug it in and then you connect it to your internet connected stuff and you teach it the infrared commands of any given remote controller and then you can just blast out those signals and you can automate that as well so using the switchbot app you can automate that as a shortcut in your There's a shortcut command in your Apple shortcuts app and you can get it to do stuff. 00:40:24.67 Michael Hmm. 00:40:26.57 Mark McCracken And all of this is like the basis of my granddad's TV. 00:40:26.63 Michael Okay. 00:40:30.01 Mark McCracken So he's, he's, he's getting on and I got him a new TV at the start of the year and he's got an Apple TV because just what old people like complicated shit. 00:40:39.89 Mark McCracken But the point behind it was we can change the channel on his TV just by texting him. So if he wants to watch, if he phones me says and says anything good on the TV, I'll say, yeah, there's snooker on BBC Four. I can put it on for you now. And I just text him the message channel four, channel BBC Four. 00:40:55.90 Mark McCracken And by a combination of shortcuts on his phone, it notices when you've got a text message from this person, starting with the word channel, what's in the end, parts what's on the end, choose a shortcut to run, run the shortcut. 00:41:06.27 Mark McCracken And the shortcut works by sending commands from his iPhone to his Apple TV to say launch the certain app. And then using that infrared blaster, sending commands to that to say go down four times and then write two times and hit enter and hit enter again. 00:41:20.35 Mark McCracken And you're watching BBC Four. 00:41:21.47 Michael This is, you you got a lesson from Tim Cook, didn't you? 00:41:24.68 Mark McCracken I did. Yeah, that that was pretty wicked. 00:41:25.40 Michael Yeah. 00:41:26.26 Mark McCracken So after I did all of the accessibility stuff for my granddad, it's like, we've got to like get him a new iPhone and get him shortcutted the shit out because he's like bad at managing his life. And, um, 00:41:37.21 Mark McCracken I give him loads of shortcuts. Like when his battery gets to 20%, it'll say, your battery's on 20%, make sure you charge it, and then see him at 15 and see him at 10. When it gets to five, not only will it say, hey, your battery's at 5%, make sure you charge it. 00:41:48.10 Mark McCracken It'll text me and my mum and my aunt at the same time to say, his battery's only on 5% now, and he's been warned three times and he still hasn't done it. So phone him and get him to put the iPhone in charge because if that doesn't work, you know the whole thing falls apart. 00:41:59.42 Michael yeah 00:41:59.88 Mark McCracken And it reads out as reminders and stuff like that. um And after I did all of that, I sent ah an email to Tim Cook and Craig Federighi at Apple, and both of them personally responded, which was quite nice. 00:42:09.98 Fredrik Wow, that's really, really cool. 00:42:10.04 Mark McCracken And ah yeah and i was I knew it was definitely from Tim because it was like eight words, and I was like, they're very nice, thanks, bye. I was like, well, you know, if it was a that if it was an assistant, they'd have taken more time, but it must be him, because he's like, oh, that's very nice, bye. 00:42:21.60 Michael the 00:42:23.29 Fredrik Yeah. 00:42:23.42 Mark McCracken And Craig Federighi sounded good, like three or four paragraphs. I was like, that's nice. And I just go, I imagine in my head that Craig seen it and was like, yeah, really nice. And then he bumped into Tim and he was like, check this email you just got. 00:42:33.56 Mark McCracken And he's like, oh shit, that's nice. 00:42:33.80 Michael Yeah, just keep on the hiring list. if we Yeah. 00:42:36.79 Mark McCracken Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:42:37.36 Fredrik Yeah. 00:42:37.55 Mark McCracken Keep him on the hiring list, exactly. Yeah, it's all a big ploy. No, I just i thought it was some of the automation stuff you can do with the shortcuts was really interesting, like the Apple Shortcuts app. And I was like, I've mastered this. 00:42:47.91 Mark McCracken I love it. It's great. And it's made his life, well, a bit better at times. 00:42:53.01 Fredrik Yeah. 00:42:53.06 Mark McCracken So it's, yeah, I was chuffed with that. 00:42:53.79 Michael Yeah. 00:42:54.69 Mark McCracken So I thought, write a blog about it. 00:42:55.09 Michael I think. 00:42:56.28 Mark McCracken So yeah. 00:42:57.43 Fredrik You're touching on a really interesting subject, and that is to how could you smartify something that's really, really dumb, as in you take a traditional TV or a stereo system or whatever that's IR-based control with regular remotes. 00:43:07.65 Mark McCracken Yeah. Yeah. 00:43:11.74 Fredrik And by using this, as you said, like this smart hub that actually can set the blaster, you can actually make these controllers and these devices and devices smart. 00:43:13.91 Mark McCracken Little blaster. Yeah. 00:43:15.43 Michael Yeah. 00:43:15.88 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:43:19.72 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:43:19.71 Fredrik And I think that's a really fascinating way of thinking about turning your home into a smart home. And if I if i were ever to encourage someone popping the question, where should I start? I would probably say, work with what you have. 00:43:31.10 Fredrik like Check what devices you have and how can you make them smart to begin with. 00:43:31.31 Mark McCracken yeah 00:43:35.08 Fredrik ah You mentioned like the dryer machine, Michael. We actually have the exact same scenario here. like You could just plug in an energy meter inside between the the socket of the dryer machine and the wall socket, and it will measure the like the energy, and it can actually turn it off and off and ah on and off and all that. 00:43:49.38 Mark McCracken Ah. 00:43:50.30 Michael Yeah, true. Yeah. Yeah. 00:43:51.08 Mark McCracken So don't buy the $800 dryer, buy the $200 dryer, just put a smart plug on it for 50 bucks and just use that as a... 00:43:53.49 Fredrik it's 00:43:58.26 Fredrik Yeah. Exactly. 00:43:59.85 Mark McCracken Genius. You've hacked it. 00:44:00.71 Fredrik Yeah. 00:44:00.95 Michael yeah 00:44:01.59 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:44:01.61 Fredrik So it's actually quite a cheap way and also a smart way to make it some kind of smarter. 00:44:06.24 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:44:06.30 Fredrik Of course, it depends at the end of the day what you're looking for, but that's a good start. 00:44:09.49 Mark McCracken Mostly fun. 00:44:10.35 Fredrik Mostly fun, yes. 00:44:10.60 Mark McCracken Mostly a hobby. Yeah. 00:44:11.48 Michael So someone is. 00:44:12.12 Fredrik But at some points, it that could actually provide some good value. Taking our our dryers, it has some years on it on its own on its neck, and it doesn't ring anymore. 00:44:18.86 Mark McCracken Yeah, I think... 00:44:21.80 Fredrik It doesn't give any beeps when it's done. So we actually now have 00:44:25.27 Mark McCracken Not for long. 00:44:26.32 Fredrik Not for long, no. 00:44:26.39 Mark McCracken Wait till you get this on the mirror. 00:44:27.60 Michael play 00:44:28.61 Mark McCracken Get some subwoofers on this mirror. 00:44:28.66 Fredrik good Yes, exactly. So now actually what we've done, we don't have a smart assistant, but we actually do, coming back to Iron Man, we actually do have the voice of Olbethany in her house, ah which is been a which has been made using AI. 00:44:41.61 Michael tell tell Tell me again how you got that. was I thought you ripped the individual sound too. 00:44:44.08 Mark McCracken How did you... Yeah. 00:44:45.84 Fredrik So there are... No, yes, so there actually comes from two or original origins. So in 2000, I think it was... One was Iron Man 3 released at some point. 00:44:58.59 Mark McCracken At some point, yeah. 00:45:00.99 Fredrik They released an iPhone app, which was Jarvis. 00:45:04.21 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:45:04.64 Fredrik right so and that app Someone, of course, broke down the app and actually extracted all the audio from that app, which was which were recordings of Paul Bettany making all of these basic system commands for these applications, characterizing Jarvis. 00:45:14.09 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:45:20.54 Fredrik now if you look at today you can just go to a lot of any website you can google it ai text generator and you can do take any mp3 file that you want ah put it in like two minutes remember they did actually they did actual list in mission impossible i think it was the second movie or third movie when they're recording the voice to be able to synthesize the exact voice. 00:45:42.72 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:45:42.82 Fredrik You, we have that now using AI. You can upload every three, five, two minutes of speech, and then you can always type it, say this, and it will say with exactly that voice. It's extremely scary. 00:45:53.67 Michael Scary. 00:45:55.20 Fredrik At the same time, it's really, really cool. So using this, we've been able to synthesize Paul Bettens' voice to our Sono speakers. 00:45:56.91 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:46:03.63 Mark McCracken But how does that get like triggered? how how do you How do you talk to something and something talks back and uses that voice? Because where's the integration point between Siri or Alexa or Google Home to say, replace this voice with this voice that I've got? 00:46:13.21 Fredrik Yes. 00:46:15.77 Fredrik Yeah. So um going back to the Jasper and the the with the voice assistant, we actually don't have a voice assistant anymore. 00:46:20.08 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:46:21.75 Fredrik I tried out Amazon Echo when it was first released and I used it for quite some years before Google Home was available. Of course, again, going back to the Iron Man, having someone to speak to and speak back. It's kind of on the to-do shelf. I have been probably been a bit damaged by the industry working in IT security for some years to realize, do I really want some microphones for listening constantly in my home? And I came to realize that's like where I draw the line for now. It's also where the my but Linda, my fiancé, always kind of draw the line, like, we don't want this at home, which I fully accept. 00:46:53.81 Fredrik So instead, we try to make automations that we don't actively trigger ourselves, but we have everything around us that actually triggers these automations. And as a confirmation and response, we have the pull that the voice of Paul Bettany with the voice of Jarvis making the confirmations. 00:47:10.78 Mark McCracken So like, rather than you triggering automations, the automation is kind of triggering themselves. 00:47:11.22 Michael and 00:47:15.34 Mark McCracken So when somebody turns on the char tap, turn off all the other fucking taps in the house for fuck's sake, for five minutes. 00:47:15.53 Fredrik Yes. 00:47:19.71 Fredrik Yes. 00:47:20.72 Michael Don't let anyone put one here. 00:47:20.83 Fredrik Yes. Or in this case, when the drying machine is ready, it literally says in the speaks, excuse me, but the drying machine is ready. 00:47:27.36 Mark McCracken Excuse me. 00:47:28.65 Fredrik Yeah, of course, we had to make it for light. 00:47:29.16 Mark McCracken yeah Nice. 00:47:32.16 Michael That's really cool. Because we we like the we we only use a few, but we like sometimes if we sit down in front of the TV, We put the the light above the TV off. 00:47:43.12 Michael We put the, there's a little LED strip behind the couch, which comes on. So there's a, there's a scene for that, but you, you could probably just thinking now, like if it was, you know, if the TV goes on after like, hey, stick that scene on, suppose it doesn't need a, it's the where, where this all falls down, I think someone said it earlier is it's all great when it's like you and your partner and you know everything that's going on, but you have someone stay in your house. 00:47:54.24 Mark McCracken Yeah, yeah. Yeah. 00:48:06.83 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:48:07.20 Michael And like, you know, if I had my mum come in and imagine that was on, imagine she was in the living room and suddenly all these lights start coming on, the TV goes off and then she starts turning things off for the plug. 00:48:13.36 Mark McCracken Oh, yeah, that's the world. 00:48:15.14 Michael And yeah, it kind of. 00:48:17.14 Mark McCracken you Your mum comes in and turns off a switch and you're like, no, no, no, that which that's a switch. 00:48:17.17 Fredrik Yeah. 00:48:17.35 Michael Yeah. 00:48:20.66 Mark McCracken That's a smart switch. We never turn that one off. 00:48:21.68 Michael Yeah. There's, there's stuff for this. 00:48:23.72 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:48:24.71 Michael as I was, I was looking at this when we did some building work. There's, there's things you can put, uh, who sells them? Life X or Phillips? The, the, it actually puts them in behind the dimmer or behind the switch. 00:48:34.82 Fredrik Philips. 00:48:35.75 Michael Yeah. 00:48:36.28 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:48:36.81 Fredrik We have a few of those, or actually almost all the outlets in our house, or I actually do have the the Philips wall switch as they call them. 00:48:37.00 Michael So, yeah. 00:48:43.59 Fredrik So it's basically, you have this dilemma with smart bulbs. Either you make the wall socket smart, like the this the switch itself, or you make the bulb swarm smart. 00:48:50.10 Mark McCracken Yeah, or the bulb. 00:48:51.95 Michael Yeah. 00:48:52.00 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:48:54.07 Fredrik It's really hard to have them both, because if you kill the power to the bulb, you can't really control it ah with your smart appliance. 00:48:59.31 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:48:59.47 Michael Yeah. 00:49:02.71 Fredrik So you can have it make a choice there. 00:49:02.79 Mark McCracken So it. 00:49:03.99 Fredrik And if you make the bulb smart, you need to have it powered consistently, like 100%. But you still want, as you might you said, Michael, the wall socket with the natural switch, the the one that everyone is familiar with, like the analog 00:49:10.43 Michael Yeah. 00:49:14.98 Michael Yeah. 00:49:16.51 Mark McCracken So just a normal, so so yeah, I've looked at this. 00:49:18.41 Michael It goes behind the, it goes behind the, this, yeah. 00:49:18.91 Mark McCracken So yeah, so I've looked at some of the smart switches, but those smart switches and themselves, like the dedicated thing that's rather than being a press or flick, it's like a digital thing that you're like, what the hell is this? 00:49:31.67 Mark McCracken But that's just like a little tiny box that you take off the switch, you put it in behind and you wired in and you put it back. 00:49:34.38 Michael Yeah. Be behind there. 00:49:35.62 Fredrik Yep. 00:49:35.99 Michael and 00:49:37.27 Fredrik yeah 00:49:37.40 Mark McCracken That sounds great. I would love that. Are those like expensive? 00:49:40.29 Fredrik ah Depends. ah I would say the the best product ah in the market is the Philips Hue Wall Switch module. 00:49:41.99 Michael We're 30 quid. 00:49:47.00 Fredrik And I think it's for for a pack of two, I think it's around 30 quid, something like that. 00:49:51.16 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:49:52.38 Fredrik And it's battery powered, so you can disconnect your entire wall switch. 00:49:54.01 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:49:57.08 Fredrik ah Make sure that the power level is always 100% connected. 00:49:58.57 Mark McCracken Yeah. But you can still press the button. 00:50:00.90 Fredrik Yes, and that because that button becomes a smart remote, just like your Philips Smart Remote. 00:50:03.47 Mark McCracken I'm sold. I'm 100% sold. 00:50:06.14 Michael Black Friday, jump on. 00:50:06.67 Mark McCracken Does it integrate with HomeKit? Black Friday. Have we passed Black Friday yet? 00:50:09.82 Michael and 00:50:10.13 Mark McCracken Or is it? 00:50:10.54 Michael no it's still amazon's going to distinct bridge and and yeah your your mom's over and like nothing's working on the 00:50:10.99 Mark McCracken I thought it was last week. 00:50:11.13 Fredrik It's tomorrow. 00:50:12.47 Mark McCracken I thought it was last week. And I'm like, this Black Friday is going off for ages, man. All right. Okay. We'll look into that Phillips one. 00:50:17.47 Fredrik no I can highly recommend. 00:50:18.61 Mark McCracken Yeah. All right. 00:50:19.35 Fredrik And that's actually something that, but it kind of still creates a dilemma because then you become reliant on the smart home device that controls all of this. In this case, it would be a Philips Hue bridge. 00:50:26.63 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:50:30.22 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:50:30.30 Fredrik So what happens if the Philips Hue bridge goes down? 00:50:33.34 Mark McCracken Yeah, mine's a bit dodge, because I got one of the older ones. Yeah. I haven't one of those before. 00:50:37.56 Fredrik Yeah. 00:50:38.21 Mark McCracken So i've got I've got this, one of one of my favorite lamps in the house is a Phillips Hue Go. And it's a little, not not tiny, but it's a lamp like you put on your bedside table. But if you unplug it, it also has a battery in it, which is kind of nice, because you can the Go being you can move it around. 00:50:53.57 Michael Mm hmm. 00:50:54.50 Mark McCracken ah I had some automations with that. of One day, my dad stayed over at my house when I wasn't there. And he was like, Mark, how did you turn that bloody lamp off? Because he said said, it just sort of, it was on. 00:51:04.55 Mark McCracken And I didn't know how to turn it off. Because it's not like there's a button, but it's on the back of it upside down. And it's not obvious. And he goes, I pulled the plug out of it, and it still was on. And I had to put it i had to put it in the cupboard. But that's the that was really good. 00:51:16.19 Mark McCracken But it has to connect to that bridge thing. 00:51:18.42 Fredrik Yeah. 00:51:18.63 Mark McCracken And now the bridge thing is just there taking up a spot on my ethernet connections, which I've only got three or four, and I'm like, hmm, do I prioritize plugging in the TV or the Xbox or the entire garden office or this Philips Hue Bridge? 00:51:30.75 Mark McCracken Philips Hue Bridge, you're gonna have to go. 00:51:31.55 Michael oh that surprises me because I think our first our first chat was about how you've got like 18 sockets in and you've only got four ethernet 00:51:32.51 Fredrik Yeah. 00:51:36.56 Mark McCracken Many, many sockets, but in the, so I figure, yeah, I've only got four on the inside of the house because of the silly router. So I kind of have to pick and choose what I'm gonna plug in on the TV. but So i've gotve i've I've chosen well, don't worry, nothing be concerned about. 00:51:49.73 Fredrik Yeah. That's also actually a very interesting topic. So when you're trying to expand your smart home and you're getting into the smart home expansion, you realize quite quickly that there are so many hubs available and so many products these days have proprietary 00:52:00.83 Mark McCracken Yeah, I don't really want another hub. One one thing that I found quite interesting recently is there's a thing called a nano leaf. Did we talk about this, Michael? A little nano leaf thing? 00:52:10.29 Michael I know nanoleaf, but I don't think we talked about it. 00:52:12.14 Mark McCracken Yeah, it's it's a little, they're like nine little panels that you put on your wall and you kind of connect them together and you can control them. via your home stuff. And that looks pretty wicked. I've put that on my Christmas list. I would like some of that. So if anybody wants to donate me some nano leaf for Christmas for this, we'll get like a GoFundMe or something or buy me a coffee thing. 00:52:32.17 Michael so everyone yeah Everyone seems to put it behind the desk, right? Everyone puts it behind the monitor, and it seems to be a 00:52:36.88 Mark McCracken Yeah, but there's there stuff, there's already stuff behind my desk. I don't know. I'll work it out. It's not like it's going to go unused in Myspace. 00:52:41.17 Michael Yeah. 00:52:43.08 Mark McCracken I got plenty of plugs. I got plenty of plugs. 00:52:44.92 Michael how How much, how, how worried cause cause you buy this stuff and I'm not digging on any particular country, but there's a lot of stuff on Amazon and I'm just thinking I'm sticking out my own network. 00:52:45.02 Fredrik They're really nice. They're really nice. 00:52:55.19 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:52:57.88 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:52:58.03 Michael Then what the fuck this stuff is, take my wifi password. And then yeah, you, I mean, you thought you bothered or like, how much did you research this doorbell? 00:53:00.81 Fredrik Yeah. 00:53:02.69 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:53:05.39 Mark McCracken ah Yeah, but i was i was I was sketchy about the ah China. China's watching me ah through that sit through the front door. um my My one rule is I try to stick to things that are only Apple HomeKit compatible, because they're unlike the whole privacy train. 00:53:20.14 Michael and 00:53:21.98 Mark McCracken Everything's private. Even your Apple intelligence bullshit that we haven't released yet. um But everything's private, and I've seen i've seen some of their efforts in privacy, like rather than just the marketing stuff, I've looked at some videos about how they do privacy, like in Apple Maps, when you say I wanna go from here to here, rather than, I could be wrong in this, but I'm pretty sure, rather than working out how to get from point A to point Z, they cut it up into sections and they work out how to get between those sections in a variety of ways so that nobody can tell from your ID where you're going, where you're going from, where are you're going to. 00:53:46.31 Michael Okay. Wait. Yeah. Okay. 00:53:50.94 Mark McCracken It's only like in blocks. So that was quite interesting. So they they do a lot of privacy stuff. So I do you try to stick quite religiously to the only the Apple ecosystem. And also, like it makes things work better together. um But the one thing that I really like is the the home pods, ah like the little home pod, because it's got a feature called intercom. So you can just say, hey, Siri. 00:54:09.99 Mark McCracken I don't want to do it now. i'mnna I'm going to tuck all my shit away before I say it. 00:54:12.29 Michael yeah 00:54:13.15 Mark McCracken But you can just say, hey, Siri, intercom, and then say some stuff. And it'll speak on the on the on the various home pods in the house. It's like, hey, Siri, hurry up and get that dinner on, or something like that. not no not not Nothing, so you know overtly feminist, anti-feminist. 00:54:23.56 Michael Yeah. 00:54:26.74 Mark McCracken But there we are. 00:54:27.44 Michael Fred, have you sniffed traffic that's leaving your house? so 00:54:32.84 Fredrik Ooh, working in the industry, I would probably should have said professionally that yes, of course I have. I have sniffed all the traffic and I'm completely sure that everything is perfectly fine and I have no leakage going to China. 00:54:43.47 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:54:46.33 Fredrik I have kind of, no, I haven't done that. I have kind of more of approach to thought of, gonna more or less assume that some of the traffic is being exported else to destinations I don't wanna know about. 00:54:59.65 Fredrik So with that in mind, can I control what type of data that is being exported and am I okay with that data being exported and being leaked? And I think going to a more of an ethical question about smart home and automation, that's probably one of the things consumers need to start asking themselves. You mentioned Michael, are we, have we reached a peak? No, we have definitely not reached a peak of a small smart home automation, at least not in my opinion. 00:55:24.72 Mark McCracken Really disappointed that this desk isn't like Wi-Fi controllable to go up and down. 00:55:27.74 Fredrik Exactly. No, but that is actually a very important question when talking about Smart Home, because Smart Home, as we already concluded, is a lot tied to digital communication. 00:55:38.57 Fredrik And digital communication comes with security in mind, because we're living in the digital society, we have IT security as being a hot topic. 00:55:38.71 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:55:45.64 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:55:45.79 Fredrik And we are quite reliant and dependent on security from third party companies and from the vendors of and the makers of the products. 00:55:46.24 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:55:54.13 Mark McCracken yeah 00:55:54.91 Fredrik We, for instance, we take for granted like when we get a operating operating system from, say, Apple or Microsoft that we tend to want to ensure that they are actually the ones making the patches for their own products, to keeping them secure and safe. 00:56:08.91 Fredrik And we, of course, they're pushing the the updates. We are keen consumers to update whenever they want, of course. 00:56:16.50 Mark McCracken ah think people definitely take yeah i think I think people definitely take the security aspect of it for granted. 00:56:16.84 Fredrik Side notes, do update your products. It's a good thing to do. 00:56:22.76 Mark McCracken like What normal person has got the time to be like, right, got this great new thing, really excited about it. Let's check the network traffic so I can maybe take it back if I don't like it. 00:56:31.97 Fredrik Yep. 00:56:32.04 Mark McCracken But like the security, it's hard. And also, if you're if you're making if you're a company making that product, You're like, you know we're agile, get the shit out the door ASAP, do some quick testing. We're like, oh, we got to do the security stuff. 00:56:43.20 Mark McCracken like Fuck the security stuff. CEO says, get this thing shipped. There's a really interesting thing a while ago from any army where lots of you know army people, they like to keep fit, apparently. 00:56:53.86 Michael Oh, I know where you're going with this, yeah. 00:56:54.13 Mark McCracken Smug folks. Yeah, the Fitbit. Maybe it wasn't Fitbit. 00:56:57.35 Michael It's a straw. 00:56:57.43 Mark McCracken It was something like that. 00:56:57.84 Michael It was a straw for me, yeah. 00:56:59.21 Mark McCracken Strava. Strava run thing. And basically they would go for runs like around the boundary of wherever their camp was. And I think the Taliban basically just hacked Strava and be like, where, where are people using this Strava thing and say, okay, there's a really rigid routine of people going for runs in exactly this location. 00:57:06.37 Michael Yeah. 00:57:18.28 Mark McCracken That must be where the base camp is, which is obviously leads to bad effects. 00:57:18.40 Michael to there was another one just like yeah There was another one just like that, which was the the the bodyguards of someone, maybe someone in politics, they would go running with him. 00:57:33.70 Michael But they kept their stats public. 00:57:37.37 Mark McCracken Yeah. 00:57:38.05 Michael So like if you know who the bodyguards of a certain you know like a president or a prime minister, you know when when the prime minister's running and where and yeah. 00:57:43.01 Mark McCracken Yeah. When they're running and where they're running. 00:57:46.82 Michael yeah 00:57:47.30 Mark McCracken Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. 00:57:49.36 Fredrik Yeah, kind of dangerous data to have publicly. 00:57:50.08 Mark McCracken Um, which is, yeah, which is kind of why people, there was a huge backlash, not so, not so long ago from a Euro. And I think that's an Amazon owned company, if I'm not mistaken. And they do loads of smart home stuff and basically there was nothing secure about it whatsoever. 00:58:04.17 Mark McCracken It was a pretty terrible. 00:58:06.39 Michael Yeah, they do, they do rooters and stuff, don't they? 00:58:06.60 Mark McCracken But yeah, anyway. 00:58:09.99 Mark McCracken Yeah, they do all sorts. 00:58:10.67 Michael Yeah, like fishing stuff and things like that, yeah. 00:58:12.19 Mark McCracken Yeah. I have one other thing on diagrams, but I think we'll leave that till next time. do we Should we get to do some news, Michael? 00:58:19.72 Michael Yeah, let's do the news. 00:58:21.04 Mark McCracken All right, what have you got in the news? You got you you got something. 00:58:22.75 Michael so i yeah i i uh i found one and i probably was couldn't have been surprised i last week's ai one was really good i really enjoyed like ai with mitten but we didn't get to talk about ai jesus yeah might have to talk about ai jesus today i love to i love to find an ai jesus link but you can i think ai jesus they they have from memory i might get this wrong they've trained um 00:58:35.40 Mark McCracken We didn't even get to talk about AI Jesus. 00:58:40.94 Mark McCracken do Do you want to recap on AI Jesus what we missed last time? 00:58:52.56 Michael they've trained AI Jesus on the new or the Old Testament. They've literally just just just used that as their for their model. And then I think this is in Switzerland. 00:59:05.21 Michael You can go into a confession booth and and have a confession with AI Jesus. And um some people are like, it's, there's a lot of people that's like, it's really good. 00:59:11.62 Fredrik That's really interesting. 00:59:16.92 Michael Like even people in the clergy, I think were like, this this is this is quite accurate. 00:59:21.39 Mark McCracken This is groundbreaking. we We can learn a lot from this. 00:59:23.36 Michael Yeah. Um, and there was, there was loads of the pesh mode puns in the article cause it was personal Jesus, but, um, yeah, that this, this one, uh, so there is a company called originality AI and then online AI detection platform. 00:59:28.08 Mark McCracken Obviously very, very, very. 00:59:37.37 Mark McCracken Yep. 00:59:39.27 Michael So they looked at, uh, nearly 9,000 LinkedIn posts that are over a hundred words for a longer and found out that 54% of those posts are estimated to be AI generated. 00:59:44.89 Mark McCracken Yep. 00:59:50.81 Michael So, you know, a lot of the kind of thought leaders and, and you know, profound insight stuff is may well be. 00:59:51.13 Mark McCracken wild thought leaders at all 00:59:58.30 Fredrik yeah 00:59:58.41 Michael Yeah. And it just, it may be kind of wonder you're like, I don't really kind of linked in all that much, but just how much this stuff out there is just bots and AI and just, it's kind of madness. 01:00:08.01 Fredrik Yeah. 01:00:10.82 Fredrik that That's actually was a really, really interest. I read through the article as well. It was really interesting because so LinkedIn provide their own AI toolset. So whenever you create a post through LinkedIn, and which I guess most of these content creators and senior executives do, they actually have the option to use the built-in AI toolkit from LinkedIn themselves to 01:00:21.83 Michael yeah 01:00:32.60 Fredrik generate this content. So it's not surprising that it's used to that extent. Alarming and what in one way, but because it creates this, I would say false, some kind of false sense of the authenticity of what you're actually reading. 01:00:40.67 Michael Yeah. to steve 01:00:48.34 Fredrik And at the end of the day, it's becomes so something something like a spam, you know, all the... 01:00:48.89 Michael I'm assuming. 01:00:52.07 Michael Yeah. 01:00:53.14 Fredrik I remember at this point in life when you you came to realize the spam emails, it's like it it had its... and Enough is enough. And I'm starting to get the same feeling. 01:01:00.88 Michael Yeah. 01:01:02.38 Fredrik I don't know about you, but I'm starting to get the same feeling about a lot of content online. 01:01:06.47 Mark McCracken You think like spam emails have like peaked and people are no longer bothering with spam emails? 01:01:10.49 Fredrik Yeah, but at least if you think of a LinkedIn especially. 01:01:12.56 Mark McCracken Phishing is still real, but they spam is like nobody's bothered with spam anymore. 01:01:17.55 Fredrik Oh, but and but same thing. I would say the same thing about AI generated content because people don't really put the effort in and anymore to do actually the content themselves. You just make someone else or something else do it for you. 01:01:30.06 Fredrik I'm not not saying that's a bad thing in all the cases, but for this particular one, it's so unpersonal, especially in a platform like LinkedIn, when you're supposed to meet and greet. 01:01:38.49 Mark McCracken It's already um impersonal. 01:01:38.75 Fredrik and 01:01:39.64 Mark McCracken It's already like professional. You've taken all the fun out of it. yeah As Jess would say, it's the worst kind of social media. 01:01:42.30 Fredrik yeah 01:01:42.38 Michael i 01:01:45.28 Michael the and the The last week I mentioned that there's an electronic artist I could worried about Satan. 01:01:52.18 Mark McCracken Oh yeah, I did try that. 01:01:52.53 Michael And and he he he put on a blog post and and he was he was very upset about AI art for album covers. And and and and the point of it was like youra you know you're a creative person. 01:02:07.06 Michael you know You've been creative enough to make music and put music out there. And right at the last hurdle, when you can do something more creative, you've just like, I mean, I'm sure not everyone's doing this, but just like, you just throw some words into an AI generator and then you get an album cover and it's like, all right, it's really pissed him off. 01:02:22.01 Mark McCracken That'll do. Just like we did for the podcast, yeah? 01:02:26.34 Michael Oh yeah, yeah. I was going to say, as a content creator yourself, when you put stuff on LinkedIn, did it give you the option to AI anything? 01:02:36.60 Mark McCracken AFI? No, I would. Well, I'm not much of a content creator. I'm like, here's the last year. Here's the latest brain dump I've had. Read it if you want. 01:02:44.80 Michael Yeah. 01:02:45.60 Mark McCracken um I don't know. I would i would never click it. I'm like, what what for? It's meant to be stupid in me. 01:02:51.03 Michael Yeah. 01:02:52.59 Mark McCracken other otherwise If it's not going to be very me, is it? 01:02:53.30 Michael yeah 01:02:55.78 Mark McCracken And people know me for being, I don't know, weird or whatever. 01:02:58.82 Michael Yeah. like I kind of feel like we have to try out. Maybe maybe we don't, maybe maybe we have two and we have the AI5 version of it. 01:03:04.50 Mark McCracken Yeah. 01:03:07.53 Michael Thought leadership pieces on the smart homes. Yeah. Yeah. 01:03:11.59 Fredrik This actually reminds a little bit of the dead internet theory. Have you heard about dead internet theory? 01:03:16.19 Michael Yes, yeah. Yeah. 01:03:19.65 Fredrik Oh yeah, even better. 01:03:22.67 Fredrik Oh yeah, yes. 01:03:22.87 Michael Yeah. 01:03:25.31 Michael Remind me again though, what is it is that most of it is just AI generated crap that's feeding off of other AI generators. 01:03:25.41 Fredrik It's in, it... 01:03:28.88 Mark McCracken I think it came from like, came from like 4chan where somebody said, I think everyone else here is just bots. 01:03:29.39 Fredrik Yeah. 01:03:35.30 Mark McCracken It's just, it's just, it's just me. It's just the only one person ever visits this website done as you. um Anyway, I did see a really interesting video about a guy that managed to make a Mac mini cluster. 01:03:39.76 Michael Yeah. 01:03:45.84 Mark McCracken he's got five different configurations of the new M4 Mac Mini, and he's connected them together using Thunderbolt and decided, can I run this LLM? He's got OpenLama 3 or whatever, and he's got like 10 different models from ah Facebook's OpenLama thing. 01:04:03.52 Mark McCracken and said can i run this and that was kind of an interesting experiment in and of itself find nobody no nobody makes your own little apple home server cluster. But the thing that i find interesting about it was apparently this is relatively and i use the word relatively loosely relatively cheap compared to like. 01:04:22.91 Mark McCracken um 01:04:24.53 Michael nvidia 01:04:25.51 Mark McCracken Yeah, because with Nvidia, you get you know all your GPU stuff, but the maximum amount of RAM that you can get on that is like 24 gigabytes of RAM for whatever reason. One of the top end models is the most RAM you can get. But because of the way Apple Silicon works and the architecture is like, there's like a shared memory, I think they call it unified memory RAM, where the CPU and GPU can share the same RAM. So you can get up to like 192 gigabytes on the RAM if you really want. And that's all available to the GPU as well. So we said, this is actually not a terrible idea because you get a lot more, cheap like if you've got the right kind of profile that you know that you need, then it's more cost-effective in some really niche cases. Otherwise they would just, Apple would just get back into the server game. um But that was kind of interesting. 01:05:10.72 Michael did you think do you think that person has bought this like they've bought this rig like i did do you think apple is helping them out and like yes yeah you're not going to get that apple job if you keep talking 01:05:15.81 Mark McCracken I don't know why, like he's a YouTube guy. I'm i'm wondering, because i'm wondering is he is he like is he buying it and then just taking it back within two weeks? Apple's got this great policy where you can buy something and if you don't like it, just take it back within two weeks. And I have made liberal use of this at times. So when I when i joined my previous place, I was like, I need a laptop. And they're like, 01:05:36.41 Mark McCracken Whoa, whoa, whoa. We'll hold that there. 01:05:38.83 Michael Yeah, you can see where you're going. 01:05:39.17 Mark McCracken But yeah, i'veve I've used the returns policy. and It's a great policy. And they should be applauded for it. 01:05:44.33 Michael And they should hire me. 01:05:45.45 Fredrik Wait, is that Apple specific in the UK? Or is it something that's actually regulated by law? 01:05:48.27 Mark McCracken I don't 01:05:49.63 Fredrik Because in Sweden, that's regulated by law. You have for all these 14 days of return fee your policy like for any consumer electronics that you buy. 01:05:57.74 Mark McCracken know. Some people make it difficult for sure. um But you just take a thing back and be like, I don't want this anymore. And they're like, sure. 01:06:03.76 Fredrik ah 01:06:04.28 Mark McCracken There you go. I don't, I don't know. I don't, I don't return stuff very often. This is, you see, I do my research and then I buy a thing. I'm like, but if I'm buying something small, I'm like, it's going to cost more money in my time and effort to return this five pound thing than it is to just write it off. 01:06:21.01 Michael Yeah, yeah. 01:06:21.30 Mark McCracken Um, so I tend to try and and never return anything because I'm like, that'll be a faff. So if I was thinking maybe I'll return this, I'll just not buy it. But with, with, you know, 2000 pound items, I'm like, yep, I'll take it back in a heartbeat. 01:06:33.18 Mark McCracken I'll go out of my way. 01:06:33.58 Michael i I had a i had ah another one, which is, I think you you've kind of, you've told me about dark reading and I'm not, dark reading, I'm not sure. 01:06:42.21 Mark McCracken Dark reading. 01:06:44.19 Michael One that one of the news things you sent was that it was on dark reading and and it's it's, yeah. 01:06:48.02 Mark McCracken Oh, yeah. 01:06:48.99 Michael and and 01:06:49.35 Mark McCracken The fancy bear neighbor nearest neighbor thing. 01:06:49.84 Michael um I'm not sure I'm happy about that. I know about data readings. It's making me feel really upset and worried and stuff. But this was, did you, did you read about Yakuza victim data leaked in Japanese agency attack? 01:06:57.39 Mark McCracken I did very briefly. 01:07:02.63 Michael This was bad. 01:07:03.58 Mark McCracken Give us a gist. 01:07:03.67 Michael Yeah. Uh, so if you're, if you somehow been involved with, with organized crime in Japan and and you want to, as yeah and and you want to leave that life, like, um, you know, maybe you, you. 01:07:12.25 Mark McCracken As you do. As you don't. 01:07:18.44 Michael So this is evading extortion or disentangling romantically. So, you know, it kind of sounds almost like not witness protection, but, you know, you're you're trying to get away from it. 01:07:27.52 Mark McCracken You want to get out of UK so you go to the Japanese 5.0. 01:07:30.08 Michael You go to one of these, ah you go to somewhere like the Kumamoto Prefecture Violence Prevention Movement Promotion Center and you give them your details. And then what's happened is there's been a data breach. 01:07:45.95 Mark McCracken Great. 01:07:46.03 Michael Oh, dear. 01:07:47.08 Mark McCracken And there were absolutely zero consequences in everyone left happily ever after. 01:07:50.36 Michael Yeah, I hope so. But to instrument the information could include addresses, phone numbers and names. 01:07:52.61 Mark McCracken ah Probably not. 01:07:57.09 Mark McCracken Oh, great. 01:07:58.24 Fredrik Oh, that's bad. 01:07:59.03 Michael That's not good, is it? 01:08:00.08 Mark McCracken Yeah. 01:08:01.16 Michael Yeah. Anything happier than that in the news? 01:08:03.96 Mark McCracken ah No. 01:08:04.90 Michael No. ah 01:08:06.96 Mark McCracken Have you gone down a rabbit hole with this dark reading website? 01:08:09.04 Michael Yeah, I have. 01:08:09.77 Mark McCracken ah the The Fancy Bear nearest neighbour thing was quite interesting. Somebody wanted to attack like some government building in Washington DC. 01:08:12.64 Michael Yeah. 01:08:16.37 Mark McCracken They had to be on the same Wi-Fi and couldn't do that. But they just broke into the literally the closest geolocated building and said, ah that's close enough to be on the Wi-Fi. 01:08:27.15 Mark McCracken That'll do. 01:08:28.08 Michael Well, they jumped over, i I read this more, they they jumped over a few Wi-Fi networks, right? 01:08:33.06 Mark McCracken How do you jump over multiple wifi networks? 01:08:35.18 Michael I don't know, yeah. 01:08:35.78 Mark McCracken Reveal your secrets, Michael. 01:08:37.32 Michael then The line I wrote down was, the threat act was thousands of miles away and an ocean apart. That's how far they were from the building thats that they got into in the first place. 01:08:48.56 Michael That's mad, like, yeah, yeah. 01:08:48.67 Mark McCracken Wow. 01:08:49.10 Fredrik It's quite a sophisticated attack. 01:08:52.14 Mark McCracken Yeah. 01:08:52.18 Fredrik But you really have to know what you're doing. and But this was also the, yeah ah what's the group called? The beer group. 01:09:00.48 Mark McCracken Yeah, like when it comes to like hacking stuff, if you're a foreign state and you can just keep keep throwing and more and more and more money at it, there's like no end. 01:09:05.08 Michael yeah i can't 01:09:07.27 Fredrik Fancy beer. 01:09:08.39 Mark McCracken The most interesting one I've seen was an Apple hack where somebody had tried to target somebody by running some remote execution stuff and they realized In PDF, that they could make PDF into like a Turing-complete language by having it run arbitrary execution code. But somebody needs to open the PDF. And they managed to get around that by encoding the PDF and changing the file extension to a GIF. And if you send the GIF to somebody on iMessage, it automatically plays the GIF. 01:09:36.57 Mark McCracken So it automatically executes the PDF and automatically runs the code inside the PDF to inject some malware into the iPhone. And I was like, who's got the time to work that out? That was that was interesting. So I'll find a link to that and send it in the show notes. 01:09:48.94 Michael i can't tell if it's the uh like every time i turn on my news thing it it seems to be stuff like this and i don't know if it's the yeah exactly like is it is it is are things getting way worse or is this the sort of echo chamber like oh he's red one let's just let's keep this 01:09:49.25 Mark McCracken but i'm 01:09:56.05 Mark McCracken You got some sort of algorithm that only gives you the bad news? 01:10:04.07 Mark McCracken He loves the bad shit. 01:10:06.10 Michael I'm dealing with the plumbing stuff, but... 01:10:07.45 Mark McCracken um No, but we got plenty more bad news. We got plenty, but should we should we should we cover some more bad news? 01:10:11.02 Michael Okay, yeah, sure. Yeah, well. 01:10:13.56 Mark McCracken All right, more bad news. 01:10:14.48 Fredrik Go for it. 01:10:14.63 Mark McCracken um The workplace has become a surveillance state, so Cisco are doing some weird stuff. Maybe it's not exactly Cisco, but effectively, They can use Wi Fi access points to detect motion through a building of objects or people, which makes sense I've heard some crazy stuff in the past about CIA being able to detect you know what's being said in a room by the vibrations of a window. 01:10:36.97 Michael Oh, well. 01:10:37.24 Mark McCracken And that that's that's pretty wild. 01:10:38.01 Michael OK. 01:10:38.84 Mark McCracken I'll see if I can take that out but effectively Cisco can monitor. how much people are in the office or moving around the office or doing any stuff based on wifi signals. And I think they've potentially productized that on a little bit. 01:10:51.89 Mark McCracken And it's just like watching, are you doing, it's like, it's no longer watching people that are just watching. Are you moving around? Are you doing stuff? Are you talking to people? Are you doing anything? It's just more and more pervasive. And I find it quite interesting. 01:11:02.64 Mark McCracken I always wanted to know more about that thing that you had, um, jellyfish. Can you tell us what jellyfish, Michael? 01:11:07.00 Michael a would i remember I think it was from memory, and I might be wrong because it was a few years back, but it runs on, you'd point it at a source like GitHub, and it would look at just activity. 01:11:20.59 Mark McCracken yeah Yeah. 01:11:26.10 Michael So it would try and look at activity in GitHub and just kind of work out. So it sounds quite basic when you say that, right? 01:11:34.53 Mark McCracken yeah Yeah. 01:11:35.52 Michael Who's interacting with with with GitHub on ah on you know on a regular basis? and and And I don't know. 01:11:39.99 Mark McCracken But it does it with lots of tools, right? 01:11:43.92 Michael I think git GitHub or GitLab were the first ones. But is it some sort of pseudo productivity thing? you know is it Is it almost back to those like, remember the days of lines of code? 01:11:50.08 Mark McCracken Yeah. 01:11:53.35 Michael I mean, I think they were a bit before my time, but like that's lots of lines of code. 01:11:53.41 Mark McCracken Yeah. 01:11:56.81 Michael You must be the best developer, or she must be the best. So yeah, I think I left before. 01:11:59.10 Mark McCracken yeah Yeah. 01:12:01.97 Michael Did it ever go anywhere? I don't know. but 01:12:03.80 Mark McCracken So Microsoft has something that's quite interesting. interesting It depend depends on your perspective. So they've got a thing called Viva Insights. So if you're in a big org and you've paid for Viva Insights, it will tell you who you're who the people are that you interact with the most and the middle and the end. 01:12:11.85 Michael Okay. 01:12:18.69 Michael Yeah, I've seen this, yeah. 01:12:21.30 Mark McCracken It'll tell you behaviors about meetings. so do you How often do you set meetings? Do you give enough advance warning for your meetings? Do you turn up on time? do you I don't know. It works out what your meeting etiquette is like. So all of these kind of things. 01:12:32.46 Mark McCracken It works out how much free time you've got and how much spent time you've got and how much time you spend on different documents and stuff. 01:12:37.68 Michael You can ask it to schedule schedule focused on for you, can't you? 01:12:39.30 Mark McCracken Yeah. 01:12:40.64 Michael And he goes, are you normally free on the money? 01:12:40.69 Mark McCracken And yeah, things like that. Yeah. And schedule time for reminders to check whether or not, you know, checking with your colleagues and stuff, but it's, it's great, but it's all presented to you from the, this is just about me perspective, but I'm sure there's a manager. 01:12:43.06 Michael Yeah. 01:12:54.65 Michael Yeah. 01:12:57.17 Mark McCracken There's gotta be a manager mode to this be like, show me what everyone on my team is doing and how busy are they and how much free time are they got? 01:12:57.58 Michael Yeah. Yeah. yeah 01:13:02.87 Mark McCracken And how much of that free time were they using to work on documents or work on code and do stuff? 01:13:06.59 Michael yeah 01:13:07.20 Mark McCracken And that's probably pretty insidious as well. 01:13:09.63 Fredrik There's always the manager perspective all of this. 01:13:11.33 Mark McCracken Always the manager mode, hidden manager mode. Yeah. 01:13:13.35 Michael yeah weird that i wonder like that there must be i was thinking about this with was i thinking about this jellyfish i was thinking about this with linkedin like i i was i don't know if i've talked to you about this before but i was wondering you know no i was wondering like you know because imagine linkedin monetized imagine linkedin reached out to you know like employers and said hey i know i know you know i know about 01:13:21.19 Mark McCracken yeah 01:13:24.97 Mark McCracken It's linked in like the opposite signal. He's been on LinkedIn for this many hours during the day. I know who's leaving. 01:13:39.68 Michael I know he's leaving, I know he's looking, I know he's, that's, I mean, if anyone ever found out it'd be over, right? It'd be, it'd be over, but, yeah. 01:13:45.84 Mark McCracken Oh, that'd be bad. But you'd find out so fast. i'm like People can't keep their mouths shut. So as soon as one person finds out about that, like, could you believe LinkedIn are doing this? And then that would be game over within a week. 01:13:53.83 Michael Yeah, it'd just be, it ended. See, you think they don't, yeah. 01:13:58.23 Mark McCracken i I wouldn't put it past them. 01:13:59.88 Michael What about, what about Microsoft though? What about, yeah. 01:14:01.69 Mark McCracken But just by the fact that people can't keep their mouths shut, they're like, look what we got from LinkedIn. We got all this stuff. And then we kept all these people and we'll see if there's loads of money. There's no way that would stay a secret. 01:14:10.84 Fredrik I don't think to be honest, I don't even think that's, that's required because you have this LinkedIn feature where you can, you know, say that you're up for work or up for new positions. 01:14:21.20 Mark McCracken Yeah, then you can hide it. You can choose to hide it from your employer. But does your employer just pay more to say, show me it, even if they've said they want to hide it from their employer? 01:14:23.65 Fredrik Yes. 01:14:27.97 Mark McCracken Is it like an arms race of who's going to pay the most to keep it a secret that you're looking? 01:14:30.48 Fredrik Yeah, right. Well, I'm i'm pretty actually pretty confident that LinkedIn knows more about the patterns of employees more than you think. And considering that they have so much data about so many companies and so many employees all around the world and all the data ah with AI, I'm pretty sure that they can actually try to find these patterns. 01:14:46.46 Mark McCracken So do you pay for LinkedIn Premium? 01:14:50.36 Fredrik Personally, no, I don't. 01:14:51.89 Michael right Yeah. 01:14:52.04 Mark McCracken So i've've I've paid for it a few times. so And there's some quite interesting stuff on there. like when you When you're looking at a prospective company, you can see like attrition rates and growth rates, just based on people saying, I work here, I no longer work here. 01:15:04.53 Mark McCracken and That's often quite interesting. If you see like the attrition rate is not like, people are leaving this company at a reasonably steady rate. You're like, shit, no point going there. It'll be redundancy within no time. um So but it is quite interesting. 01:15:14.68 Michael Well. 01:15:16.22 Mark McCracken And the whole in meal thing, like you can message anybody you want. i'm like 01:15:19.39 Michael Yeah. 01:15:19.94 Mark McCracken Do I want that? Only if I'm like really actively looking for a job. So I've paid for it a few times and I've thought maybe there's jobs, maybe I'm going to be looking for jobs. And at that point I'm like, right. It's got to like, when it gets to panic stations, when you're like, right, need a new job, like stat, I'm like, right. 01:15:33.40 Michael Yeah, reactivate, reactivate. 01:15:35.90 Mark McCracken You know the way the recruiters are like constantly cold messaging people? 01:15:38.64 Michael Yeah. 01:15:38.86 Mark McCracken I'm like the opposite. I'm not cold calling recruiters being like, have you got jobs? Have you got jobs? Great. Tell me more. Call me back. 01:15:46.26 Michael you you You were talking about that feature that hides your, the feature that hides your status. 01:15:46.34 Mark McCracken So um it's worth it then. 01:15:51.24 Michael i remember I remember seeing that and it was when I worked for Gamesys or Balleys or one of the other 10 or 15 different names I had thinking, which company is it going to hide that status to? 01:16:03.16 Michael like you know like because you know at some point we were game system we became parties but all the people that still say they work for games it's like did they did they see you hiding it from button anyways it doesn't matter now obviously but like 01:16:08.72 Mark McCracken Yeah. 01:16:13.97 Mark McCracken Don't know. Yeah. um And the other news, all of our other news was, you know, quite depressing. 01:16:24.58 Mark McCracken Oh, the last one was quite interesting. The NHS have had a cyber attack in somewhere. ah So a major hospital in Wirral, which I've not heard of. I'm glad it's not right in the corner for me. But, um oh, right. 01:16:34.95 Michael Liverpool, near Liverpool I think. 01:16:36.52 Mark McCracken Okay. Yeah. Well, you've you've you've you've read more than just my AI summary. Well done. um but it's it's been since Monday and it's been so bad that they've gone back to using pen and paper. 01:16:47.73 Michael Oh well. 01:16:48.82 Mark McCracken um 01:16:48.83 Michael I was going to say some, some I don't know, mate is this good news? 01:16:48.98 Fredrik Wow. 01:16:52.43 Michael So you sent me this thing about Indonesia and Apple. 01:16:56.17 Mark McCracken Yeah, that was that's kind of not terrible. 01:16:56.54 Michael Yeah, I mean ah they're sticking up, sticking up for themselves, yeah. 01:16:59.90 Mark McCracken so So I think long and short about this, um the iPhone 16 is banned in Indonesia because Indonesia have said if you want to sell it here, you must produce a minimum number of components that make the thing here. 01:17:12.82 Mark McCracken So you must help our economy by manufacturing at least 40% of it here or something to that effect. 01:17:18.60 Michael Yeah. 01:17:19.10 Mark McCracken um 01:17:20.71 Michael and And they're sticking to their guns amazon on how you say, yeah. 01:17:21.52 Mark McCracken Or you can, yeah, or you can not do that and just give us a load of money. 01:17:25.87 Michael And not saying friends. 01:17:26.55 Mark McCracken You can be, it rather rather than building 40% of the stuff here, you can give us money and we can boost our economy and in that fashion. And basically Apple's offered them a hundred million dollars and they've said, nah. 01:17:38.13 Mark McCracken nah your iphone 16 is banned here and i imagine people are like oh yeah well fine it's kind of like the apple intelligence thing where you're like oh that's out in the united states and it's not out here and then after a week you're like so what well i'm kind of fine with it yeah it's pretty good but when it comes to actually using it i've been like 01:17:49.38 Michael yeahm um left go life goes on so 01:17:52.75 Fredrik Apple Intelligence, I find that's probably the most clever buzzword in all of the year, like using the word AI and make coming up with Apple Intelligence is like the perfect... 01:17:53.15 Michael ah 01:18:07.81 Mark McCracken I've been more annoyed that I've had to switch from English UK to English US than I have been pleased by what it can do. So I've been like, oh, this is not that impressive. I think I might turn this off until they bring it. they well they are but like They've had this whole battle with the EU because I think the core of this is that. 01:18:23.23 Mark McCracken If they're going to make a feature available in their operating system, then it has to also be available to other third-party developers. And Apple's like, well, we don't trust these third-party developers to use these sensitive APIs. So we're not going to make it available. um But it is coming anyway in April. So they're going to release it in the EU in April. um But I'm like, I don't really care that much. We cover their ads already, which are wacky enough. But yeah, that was so that that was that was a good bit of news. Is that enough to bring us on to recommendations, Michael? 01:18:51.51 Michael Yeah, I'll quickly try and think of some way you guys get first. 01:18:54.18 Mark McCracken Well, we we had last week's recommendations, if I can look at them. 01:18:57.70 Michael Yeah. 01:18:58.97 Mark McCracken I did try a few of these. One that I've been absolutely hooked on is Father John Misty, who's been absolutely fantastic. 01:19:03.82 Michael Yeah. 01:19:05.14 Mark McCracken That a Pure Comedy album is great. 01:19:05.54 Michael Yeah. yeah 01:19:07.13 Mark McCracken It's one of those albums where I listen to the first six songs and then I'm like, shit, that was a good song, go back. And now I haven't heard the second half of the album really at all. 01:19:13.36 Michael I'm going to find that lyric about, and about ah what's the name? 01:19:13.73 Mark McCracken um 01:19:22.08 Michael Milisaurus? 01:19:24.26 Mark McCracken I didn't quite get that, but ah coincidentally, we released the podcast on Friday and he dropped a new album on Friday. 01:19:24.66 Michael Mario Taylor Swift. 01:19:29.66 Michael Here we go. 01:19:30.04 Mark McCracken Same day as Kendrick, um so they're having a little thing. um 01:19:33.32 Michael These lyrics are ah bedding Taylor Swift every night inside the Oculus Rift. 01:19:39.49 Mark McCracken Ah, that's the one, yeah. 01:19:40.49 Michael yeah 01:19:41.76 Mark McCracken Now that you say it in a slower fashion, I'm like, oh yeah, I didn't know that one, yeah. 01:19:44.71 Michael Yeah. 01:19:46.25 Mark McCracken Yeah, I did try worried about Satan, which was great. 01:19:48.50 Michael Yeah. 01:19:48.58 Mark McCracken um Again, another yeah another badly named artist because 01:19:48.80 Michael Good, good, good coding music. Yeah. 01:19:54.64 Michael It doesn't, it doesn't, you, you think it's going to be a. 01:19:55.84 Mark McCracken Yeah, no, nothing at all. I was like, shit, what is this shit going to be? And I was like, oh, this is great. This is some nice, very chill electric music. Yeah, any other rec? Did you try any of the recommendations last week, Michael? 01:20:07.19 Mark McCracken Or you're just throwing this out. 01:20:08.90 Michael I. 01:20:08.98 Mark McCracken You're not you're not here to you're you're not here to take the recommendations you give the recommendations. so 01:20:13.51 Michael but No, I did. Um, I took one of Mittens, I took one of Mittens and I enjoyed it. 01:20:19.16 Mark McCracken Yeah. I did watch one episode of monk and I was like, this is shit. Turned it off after 10 minutes. 01:20:24.59 Michael The who spent his whole honeymoon in New Zealand. 01:20:25.64 Mark McCracken Oh honeymoon watching five, at five, what three or five series of monk. 01:20:26.43 Michael like 01:20:29.56 Mark McCracken And I was like, this is shit. I'm not watching this. 01:20:30.94 Michael Yeah. Well, I'm, I'm, I'm still reading my book. I've not managed to, I've not managed to turn it, could you? 01:20:34.26 Mark McCracken Cool. Is that the one? 01:20:35.58 Michael Yeah. I've not turned that around in a week, but, um, I've been listening to, uh, another of 01:20:38.34 Mark McCracken Yeah. Yeah. 01:20:42.10 Michael worried about Satan's side projects called ghosting season. 01:20:44.96 Mark McCracken There we go. 01:20:46.11 Michael Better name. Yeah. said and yeah ah I didn't try. 01:20:48.60 Mark McCracken I mean, I don't know we're gonna find out. Yeah. Did he try bolt or cursor? 01:20:55.47 Mark McCracken I've got that much time yet, but you did do something else this week. 01:20:55.57 Michael Oh yeah. 01:20:58.36 Mark McCracken What what what it what what what did you publish yesterday? 01:21:01.71 Michael and I knew you'd drop me in it. Yeah. 01:21:04.73 Mark McCracken you just yeah Yeah Quite some time 01:21:05.04 Michael ah finally I finally finally finally yes they wrote a blog post after like threatening to do it for a decade because you read it. Thanks. I think I think if I look at my stats, you're the only person who's ready. 01:21:17.91 Michael Yeah, so. 01:21:18.81 Mark McCracken So you paid you paid for the medium like custom domain thing, right? 01:21:22.07 Michael Yeah, what are you saying? Yes. 01:21:24.39 Mark McCracken but Well, nothing. 01:21:24.56 Michael ah This this is why do I pay for things because I think I'm going to use. 01:21:25.11 Mark McCracken It's just but that that it like, Michael has bought all of the equipment required to do a blog. 01:21:32.19 Michael Yeah, I've got after look I've got I've finally got my next video back up, so I need I need 64 gig around and 01:21:34.38 Mark McCracken but 01:21:38.88 Mark McCracken Whereas I have bought all of the equipment required to do a podcast and keep getting told your audio sounds shit, man. think What are you doing? You're equalizing this terribly. 01:21:46.16 Michael But yeah, I wrote one and I'm going to write another one and then I'm going to see how it goes and then going to run out of, run out of content group. 01:21:48.59 Mark McCracken Yeah. 01:21:51.83 Mark McCracken Yeah. So any any any other recommendations? So where hang on, let's let's get let's get into the detail into this blog. 01:21:56.10 Michael Yeah. 01:21:59.24 Michael Okay. 01:21:59.72 Mark McCracken How did you find it? How long did it take you to produce this article this this masterpiece? 01:22:03.42 Michael ah Not long. I think I'd had it on my mind for a while and I was thinking about why to, I was thinking about why to write it. 01:22:06.49 Mark McCracken Yeah. 01:22:08.60 Michael So I was like, I kept kind of going, am I going to post it? Am I not going to post it? Am I going to post it? on And I was like, why am I doing it? Who wants to? 01:22:14.00 Mark McCracken And now you've taken the hard step of posting it untold. One person. 01:22:17.55 Michael Yeah, that's fine. I don't care. But ah was thinking about so so the next thing I was going to write is basically like, why am I posting this? And and you when when you spoke to me about the podcast, you said that this is how I remember. I think you remember it differently, but you said, I want to do a podcast because it's going to make me accountable. 01:22:35.81 Mark McCracken Oh no, that's not, that that that's not, that's not, that's slight twist of what I said. What I said was, I would love to do a podcast, but if I did it on my own, I'd never be bothered to keep up with it. 01:22:43.98 Michael Okay. Okay. 01:22:45.38 Mark McCracken So if I had one other person as a co-host, that would keep me accountable. 01:22:45.45 Michael Yeah. 01:22:48.67 Mark McCracken And here you are, you stupidly said, yes, I don't know why you keep saying yes to me. 01:22:48.78 Michael yeah yeah yeah um but i was like you know if i if i i've basically written this post about how i'm going to do loads of skilling up and i've i've kind of put it out there publicly and now everyone's going to be like how's the skilling up going and i'm going to be like o so i need not yet no not yet but um uh yeah it's just uh no it's just like i don't i don't know i kind of i just feel awkward i think 01:23:02.18 Mark McCracken Have, So have you, have you, have you put it out there publicly? Did you post, you didn't, you didn't post it on LinkedIn yet. You still like got jitters about that. Now it's going to check some typos first of all. 01:23:16.37 Mark McCracken We got to balance out the AI bullshit on LinkedIn from the influencers with like real stuff. 01:23:19.35 Michael Yeah, with some honest stuff. so i was goingnna I was going to wait for the second one where I talk about why I'm doing this. 01:23:21.65 Mark McCracken Yeah. 01:23:25.33 Mark McCracken Yeah. 01:23:25.57 Michael and but but yeah kind of there a does i am the Have you ever read of Something Habits? it's so 01:23:33.00 Mark McCracken I bought that book at an airport and I read at least one chapter. 01:23:37.32 Michael but but what i i think yeah and mr But I think, I think one of the, yeah, 01:23:38.07 Mark McCracken I get emails every day from fucking James Clear saying, you should do this three, two, one steps. I'm like, just, I don't know the heart to unsubscribe him. 01:23:46.92 Michael one of One of the things that I do remember, if I've got my books right, is that and you know when they talk about habits, if you like, instead of saying something like, I'm trying to run, or I'm, i'm you know, it's the mental thing where you go, I'm a runner. 01:24:01.12 Mark McCracken Oh yeah, the mental distinguishing between. Yeah, I am that thing rather than I'm trying to. 01:24:05.74 Michael I am nothing rather than trying, you've read more than one chapter, so. 01:24:07.14 Mark McCracken Yeah. You're a, you're a blogger. 01:24:10.10 Michael Yes, and not, I'm a blogger, but I thought, you know, I thought think if I write, like, I'm gonna do all this, 01:24:11.66 Mark McCracken Well, you are now. 01:24:15.17 Michael If I'm going to do all this upskilling stuff, then I kind of put it out there and now I feel like I have to do it. 01:24:19.97 Fredrik What's the address to your blog, Michael? 01:24:20.03 Michael So we'll see. 01:24:23.81 Michael Blog.heyitsmichael.com. Not the Swedish way. 01:24:27.65 Mark McCracken There we go. 01:24:28.57 Michael Not the Swedish way. 01:24:29.71 Mark McCracken There we go. 01:24:30.51 Michael There we go. 01:24:30.53 Mark McCracken we'll put that We will definitely put that on the show notes. 01:24:32.32 Michael You're just going to drop me anyway. so 01:24:33.67 Mark McCracken Yeah, yeah, yeah. 01:24:34.21 Michael yeah 01:24:34.40 Mark McCracken I mean, that's the point. of with The point of being accountable to like just me. 01:24:39.02 Michael and What's everyone else been up to? Recommendations, music. 01:24:41.74 Mark McCracken Well, but just just quickly touching on that. 01:24:43.32 Michael Not not blogging. 01:24:43.38 Mark McCracken Fred, have you ever fred have you we ever had a blog? 01:24:46.75 Fredrik I haven't read a ah written a blog myself. I've been thinking actually to do it funny enough about Smart Home for quite some time. 01:24:53.08 Michael okay so yeah it's easier to cross sell this book off and then maybe mark will get his nano leaf no yeah 01:24:53.59 Fredrik um But I'd actually never have it taken the time. 01:24:54.06 Mark McCracken There we go. 01:24:58.66 Fredrik Yeah, exactly. 01:25:02.51 Mark McCracken Yeah. Maybe, maybe, maybe a blogger with a nano leaf and be like, this is such a fucking waste of money. It's so expensive for these little tiny leaves. 01:25:08.64 Fredrik yeah 01:25:09.07 Mark McCracken Um, yeah. 01:25:11.12 Fredrik Now, I could probably talk about smart homes forever and hours and hours, but yeah, the thing, the thought of writing a blog post have actually been on my mind for a couple of few years, partially for good use, but also because it's an interesting topic. 01:25:13.77 Mark McCracken Yeah. 01:25:28.11 Mark McCracken Do it. Do it. If you follow Michael's 100-step guide, eventually at the end, you'll have done all the all the procrastination will be done, and you'll be straight into it. 01:25:32.28 Fredrik I probably will end up writing a blog post. hey Yeah. 01:25:36.08 Michael Yeah. 01:25:37.84 Mark McCracken um Recommendations. What have we got to recommend, Michael? 01:25:42.42 Michael Ghosting season. 01:25:43.74 Mark McCracken yeah 01:25:44.26 Michael Ghosting season. 01:25:45.49 Mark McCracken Ghosting Season by Word about Satan. 01:25:46.26 Michael Yeah. 01:25:47.37 Mark McCracken All right, cool. 01:25:47.44 Michael Well, no, ghost sorry, ghosting season is one of his other projects. 01:25:50.39 Mark McCracken Yeah. 01:25:51.06 Michael Yeah, I'm going to go for that. 01:25:51.50 Mark McCracken All right. 01:25:52.17 Michael I've not read any other books. Actually, no, I have actually. I've been reading observability engineering. 01:25:58.47 Mark McCracken Wow. 01:25:59.41 Michael It's really good. and it's It's because i'm um like said I'm in an SRE role. 01:26:03.90 Mark McCracken Yeah. 01:26:04.19 Michael And, uh, you know, even like, uh, it's by, um, uh, it's by three authors, the only one whose name I can remember is Charity Majors. 01:26:10.72 Mark McCracken Yeah. 01:26:13.16 Michael Um, who is quite high up at Honeycomb, maybe the CTO, maybe more than that. 01:26:17.53 Mark McCracken Will they get a good rate? 01:26:18.08 Michael So, um, yeah, that was really just, yeah. I mean, it's not a, you know, sit and read it on the beach or something, but it's like, uh, you know, it's, it's good read. 01:26:24.18 Mark McCracken Yeah. 01:26:25.34 Michael Like just even, just even the whole start of that, just like, you know, can like comparing observability and monitoring how everyone kind of 01:26:28.28 Mark McCracken Yeah. 01:26:33.83 Michael mixes them up and and and stuff like that. So yeah, I really enjoyed that. 01:26:37.03 Mark McCracken Yeah. 01:26:37.96 Michael Very sad, but yeah. 01:26:38.06 Mark McCracken In a similar vein, I've been reading a work-related book called a Standard for Program Management, which has been really, I mean, from an outsider perspective, incredibly dry, but full of good, sensible standards that look pretty reasonable. 01:26:44.19 Michael Okay. 01:26:48.92 Michael Okay. 01:26:51.96 Michael Cool. 01:26:52.28 Mark McCracken So that's been pretty good. 01:26:53.48 Michael Cool. 01:26:53.94 Mark McCracken ah Fred, you got any recommendations? 01:26:56.92 Fredrik Ooh, that's a really good question. um Can I put me on the spot there? ah Give me a couple of minutes and I'll have to think about it. 01:27:03.93 Mark McCracken I did, yeah. 01:27:05.60 Michael but so What's your music recommendation, Mark, while we go through it? 01:27:07.79 Mark McCracken My music record, nothing, just much, much, much farther John Christie. 01:27:09.22 Michael Oh, Misty. Oh, Misty. 01:27:11.63 Mark McCracken Yeah, Christie, Mesty, I keep getting that wrong. 01:27:11.72 Michael Yeah. Misty. 01:27:14.35 Fredrik You have to think that it's Christmas time nowadays as well. 01:27:14.41 Michael You know what, I think... 01:27:14.44 Mark McCracken um 01:27:16.75 Fredrik so 01:27:17.22 Mark McCracken Yeah. um So that's that's been great. 01:27:18.26 Fredrik ah 01:27:19.34 Mark McCracken And it's it's it's kind of Christmassy kind of vibe a bit. um I did watch a movie this week. I watched back to back. I've been on my own, so I've been watching a lot of movies. um And I watched horror movie, which is not really very me kind of vibe. 01:27:31.65 Mark McCracken I don't really like horror movies because who likes to jump. 01:27:34.55 Michael Yeah. 01:27:34.64 Mark McCracken But it wasn't like jumping. It was ah we it would be gory. called The Platform, which is a foreign film. And long and short, to people go into this prison or not prison. Sometimes they go in voluntarily, but they're like not under the illusion that it's going to be lovely. And there's like 300 floors and go in and you they only ask you when you go in, you can take one item, you choose whatever item you want when you go in, and you can choose one food. 01:28:00.55 Mark McCracken and they go in and they go go in with their item and they're they're on a platform with two with one other cellmate and they have their item and then the food comes down so the food comes on a platform that kind of goes through all of the different floors and it's like at the top it's like world-class amazing looking food and then but the people at the top they're like greedy and they eat all the food so by the time you get to like level 50 it's like scraps and you're just kind of eating like rubbish stuff you don't really like 01:28:16.29 Michael Yeah. 01:28:22.02 Michael Okay. Yeah. 01:28:24.94 Mark McCracken The time you get to like level 100, there's nothing there. And you've got to basically kill your cellmate to eat food. 01:28:27.66 Michael That sounds very cool. 01:28:30.93 Mark McCracken And this guy decides he's going to um he's going to have a revolt and do something different in this system to try and show it wrong. um So I watched that. And that way it was quite interesting. And then I immediately went in straight straight away after I finished the first one straight into watching the second one, because it came up next on Netflix. 01:28:46.83 Mark McCracken And I was like, oh, well, we'll give this a go. And I was skeptical, because the first one had a seven IMDB rating. The second one's only got five IMDB rating. And it's mostly because the ending was a bit like you have to interpret it in some way. 01:28:57.66 Mark McCracken You know, like when you watch the end of like the Matrix 2 and you're like, what was going on there? 01:28:57.79 Michael when i 01:29:00.80 Michael and You have to go and read your thing off, just to understand. 01:29:02.82 Mark McCracken That was, yeah, you have to go and read something afterwards. You're like, well, what was going on there? So it was a bit like that, but it was it was was it was good. Would recommend the platform and the platform too, which was a bit, a bit gory at times, but not like jump. 01:29:08.93 Fredrik Yeah. 01:29:14.09 Mark McCracken Scary. Yeah. 01:29:16.01 Michael right 01:29:16.03 Fredrik I saw it as well, the first platform movie. I thought it was a really good movie as well, mostly because it was kind of, it was extremely different from what you usually tend to see in a movie. 01:29:20.01 Mark McCracken Yeah. 01:29:22.74 Mark McCracken yeah 01:29:24.34 Fredrik And even though the story was quite, up you could tell they had a lot of really deep meanings of the movie itself and the the the outcome and the story. 01:29:30.79 Mark McCracken Yeah. 01:29:33.80 Fredrik But it was a really interesting way, both how it was semantically filmed and the way it was composed. It was extremely ah interesting movie. 01:29:38.51 Mark McCracken Yeah. 01:29:39.94 Fredrik So I highly recommend as well to anyone to see it. 01:29:41.94 Mark McCracken Yeah. I've also been watching, uh, I've been watching the day of the Jackal and sky and I thought, Oh, it's based on, you know, the classic movie, the day of the Jackal. 01:29:46.22 Michael i 01:29:49.45 Mark McCracken So I went back and watched the classic movie, the day of the Jackal. And now I'm like, have I just ruined the series for myself or are they going to do something different? So now I'm wondering, is this going to end and exactly the same way? And I'm like, it's going to be shit. 01:30:00.44 Mark McCracken So I'm going to go watch it with my mum now in a minute. 01:30:02.04 Michael You're going to read the book as well, or or is that enough? 01:30:03.46 Mark McCracken Yeah. Yeah, I think I might read the book too. 01:30:05.14 Michael enough inspiration ah Go all in. 01:30:06.15 Mark McCracken Maybe the book's different from the original movie, and I'll just do the like three different endings of this of this show. 01:30:07.99 Michael Yeah. Why not? Yeah. 01:30:10.39 Mark McCracken Yeah, why not? 01:30:11.63 Michael Cool. 01:30:12.04 Mark McCracken Yeah. Wicked. I think that's it. We're at the end. 01:30:15.78 Michael letly That right? 01:30:16.87 Mark McCracken Call it a day. 01:30:17.42 Michael Only the weekends. 01:30:17.69 Mark McCracken Wicked. Fred, it's been an absolute pleasure. 01:30:20.10 Michael Yeah. 01:30:20.19 Mark McCracken Thanks like for coming on. 01:30:20.27 Fredrik Thank you very much. And likewise, it was great to have myself on board. 01:30:20.95 Michael Thanks for being on. 01:30:23.39 Mark McCracken Yeah, all right. The end. Bye. 01:30:25.40 Michael Bye, mate. 01:30:25.43 Mark McCracken Bye. Bye.