0:00  
Jim: Hello and welcome back to Plantopia, the plant health podcast produced by the American Phytopathological Society. I'm Jim Bradeen a professor of plant pathology and associate vice president at Colorado State University. And today I'm excited to introduce Dr. Hanareia Ehau-Taumaunu. Hanareia completed her undergraduate studies at the University of Auckland in New Zealand, where she studied sciences and arts as a double major in biological sciences, Maori studies and writing studies. As an undergraduate student summer research experiences at the New Zealand Institute for plant and Food Research fueled her interests in agriculture and plant health. And following her Master's studies in biological sciences, Hanareia join Pennsylvania State University where she recently earned her PhD in plant pathology. An array of PhD studies were partially funded by a Fulbright Fellowship, and she has been the recipient of numerous awards and honors. And today we're going to discuss her work in collaboration with her graduate mentor, Professor Kevin Hackett. And we'll also discuss her perspectives on Indigenous ways of knowing and her perspectives as an indigenous woman and a scientist. Hanareia, welcome to Plantopia.

1:30  
Hanareia: Thanks, Jim, it's great to be here on the podcast, I would like to first acknowledge that I am speaking to you from the lands of the Shawnee and Susquehanna nations that have been present in what we currently call the state of Pennsylvania since millennia. And I just really want to give my acknowledgments to, to those people, to the land, the waters, that have allowed me to be here for the last five years. And that I really do strive to emulate their sustained commitment to the environments and to everything and around that's around us. So that's where I'd like to start.

2:15  
Jim: Let me start by saying congratulations to you on completing your PhD just last couple of weeks. And I think big changes are ahead for you. We'll talk about that in just a moment.

2:25  
Hanareia: Thanks. It's been a long journey. But it is it is great to be at this milestone. And as you said, I'm very much looking forward to the future as well.

2:36  
Jim: Okay, fantastic. Well, let's start really, with plant pathology. And you're interests in plants biology, you shared a moment ago, that growing up, you were very connected with nature and agriculture. And that's really fueled a lifelong interest. Could you tell us a bit more about your, your background?

2:56  
Hanareia: Sure. Yeah, I grew up in a very rural remote area of New Zealand, on the lands of my ancestors. And I was like, I guess at the time, I didn't realize it, but I was surrounded by lots of farming, my family always had a very large garden, we will grow and Kuma, our sweet potato lineage and New Zealand, I absolutely love and, you know, just other types, you know, be farming and, and all that kind of thing. And somehow followed me to university when I got there, I was really interested in biology. And then found kind of plant pathology through my time at plant and food. And it was able to connect that with the environment that I was living in and was brought up in and that I could connect it to the hard sciences. So that was a good learning, you know, throughout my undergrad studies, and then also at my time at plant and food. So yeah, I remember being asked in interviews, you know, at the end of my undergrad, like, why did you do this? And I'm like, it was just all around me all the time. Why wouldn't I? You know, it was just always that constant connection to my environment, and that I was, you know, taught by different people of how we can work with the environment, you know, where we should grow things when we should grow things, just as a kid growing up, and that just continued throughout my studies, which is great.

4:25  
Jim: So tell me more about your time with plant and food. How did that shape your career path?

4:32  
Hanareia: It heavily shaped me it definitely made me the plant pathologist that I am today. I was brought in on a project that was working with Maori kiwi fruit growers, and how they were trying to work through the PSA endemic that was happening in New Zealand. So we had a pathogen effect one of our main QE for cultivars the pathogen was the bacterium Pseudomonas syringae path of activity. And it was devastating a cue for growers and a large portion of our queue for growers, Maori growers. And so they wanted to connect the two. And that's where I came in as a young Maori scientist at that time, you know, taking an interest in plant pathology and plant sciences. And yeah, I got to work with different key for growers, and that I was doing a lot of PCR on different genes that we were trying to figure out what were they really doing? What were they playing a part in, in terms of the pathogenicity of the bacterium that we're working with? And, yeah, it just really caught my interest. And I could see the connections between plant health, how that affects the communities that I was living in, and I'm from, and that I could actually join the two passions of being able to do science, that was cool, and fun and interesting, that would have a positive impact on my communities, and also just a country as a whole.

6:04  
Jim: And plant pathology is definitely a cool fun, science has a lot of impact. So I think a lot of a lot of us can relate to your perspectives there. How did you end up at Penn State?

6:17  
Hanareia: So I spent the time doing plant pathology in my undergrad, which was wonderful. I spent many summers at plant and food. But then also I was taking classes as well, and those types of areas, you know, just an ecology and also microbial ecology, and also all the molecular stuff as well. Then I kind of took a took a detour for my master's. And I actually went into entomology and looking at the microbiomes, of a native insect of New Zealand, that had become a pest in agricultural pastures. So it was the enemy of a lot of farmers at the time, because it was eating all their grass, but really, they were just overtaking the home of that insect in the first place. And so I was able to come in on that project. So I went into biology, realized that I had such a huge passion for plant pathology. And I really, really wanted to come back to it. So decided to pursue a PhD in plant pathology. And I was very fortunate to receive a Fulbright scholarship that kind of made me think about doing science outside of Altero, New Zealand kind of broadening my horizons even more than what it was happening at the time. And so I found myself coming to Penn State, to do my PhD and to learn from the people at the university, the science community, atheists community, but also connecting with the indigenous communities of this land as well. So yeah, it I've been on a winding kind of journey to get to where I am today. But each of those perspectives and learnings and tools that I've gathered along the way have been really beneficial and I'm very fortunate to have received for those along the way as well. So my journey is not over just yet. But yeah, coming coming across the Pacific Ocean across to Cuba has been one of the best times of my kind of a shortish life so far.

8:16  
Jim: We're delighted that you you continue your studies in plant pathology. Just a disclaimer, we love our friends and entomology as well. But we're very happy to count you amongst our community. Now your your PhD work at Penn State.  Oh, a different path of art. And you you have published an incredibly cool manuscript very recently. This actually is currently it's an APS Phytobiome. First look. So it'll be published very soon, probably by the time this podcast is out, it will be published and we'll make sure that we have a link to this on plantopiapodcast.org. The title of this study is "Passaging phyllosphere microbial communities develop suppression towards bacterial speck disease in tomato." There's a lot to unpack there. What really struck me is the way you framed your approach. Fundamentally, this is about bio control. And you you talk a bit about suppressive soils as an intellectual framework for for thinking about how how bio control can work in complex agricultural environments. And then you posit that the same dynamic that happens in that soil community may actually be happening in the fall of sphere, it may be something that we could leverage for crop disease management, I guess let's start with violet sphere. What what is the file a sphere and why do we care about it?

9:53  
Hanareia: Phyllosphere is all the microbes that live on the surface organs of plant. So anything that's on the surface of the aerial part of the plant that can host microbes, we're really interested in terms of the phyllosphere. So that can include, you know, the leaves, the stems, flowers, everything that's above the ground, which is a very unique environment, especially when we compare that to the soil, where you know, the plant, typically in agriculture is there for a very short period of time. And kind of gives us the fruits that we want in many of the vegetables, including the one that I was working with tomato. And it just, yeah, it's such a unique environment. Because it's so much more hostile, it changes all the time, it's heavily affected by the climate, even the microclimate and amongst those plants. And it's just an interesting space to be in and trying to translate some of the knowledge that we've gained, say, from the soils, and bringing that up to the phyllosphere.

10:58  
Jim: So your your study really looks at that phyllosphere composition, which you characterize as being really dynamic. And yet, at one level, you're assuming that manipulating that that environment may actually be good for plant health? Where did this line of thinking come from? What was the impetus for this project?

11:22  
Hanareia: I think both Kevin, my doctoral advisor, we both had an interest in biological controls, but kind of expanding the traditional kind of look that we've had, usually we looking at one particular microbe that can target a pathogen of interest. And, you know, sometimes, a lot of the times, you know, we're seeing different efficacy results, when it's in the field, sometimes it works in the lab, sometimes it doesn't work in the field, vice versa. And, you know, we will, you know, had some, you know, interest and also looking at other research that was being done in soils, we really, it's the whole community that's being involved in a lot of that disease suppression. And so just trying to think about, well, you know, the biosphere holds and hosts a range of microbes and their own communities. And how could we change kind of that normal paradigm where we're using a one to one system, to more of a whole community, you know, to 10s, to hundreds to 1000s, to that one. So then it's able to, you know, hopefully, adapt during that time that it's interacting with that pathogen, it's also adding in more dynamic and different mechanisms of targeting that microorganism of interest as well. And so it just gives us a bit more flexibility, a bit more breadth, and how we can kind of target and really suppress these pathogens that, you know, we want to help the farmers be able to get around and to be able to, you know, have crop production. And then also that this could also be used in natural systems as well, because there are tons and tons of microbes in those systems as well. So it's really thinking about it at the ecosystem level of, okay. There's going to be microbial communities, wherever they may be, and how can we leverage those communities to work against our pathogens that we're, you know, trying to help out? A little bit.

13:20  
Jim: It's really neat when I first read your paper, my first thought was about the experimental approach, how could you actually track change over over microbial generations? Tell us a bit about what you did in this paper.

13:35  
Hanareia: Um, so we came up with an experimental method, where, you know, we had looked at previous research and that, we found that researchers were able to transfer microbes from one follow sphere to another. So we're like, okay, we can definitely manipulate that ourselves experimentally, where we can take a community from one to the other, and that they would stay relatively the same. That was based on previous research. So we kind of used the passaging kind of experiment where we could transfer from Father sphere to follow sphere thinking about it, that it would be a continual crop rotation. And that when we're thinking about suppressive soils, those microorganisms are always present in those soils, regardless of what's been planted throughout the different seasons. And so we knew there had to be continual contact between the microbial community, the pathogen of interest, and then our host. And so for us to be able to do that. But in the follow sphere, when you know, tomatoes only last so long, and then they're either removed from the field or they die, and snares and all that things. So we were taking a method that had been previously done by some other researchers, and that we would constantly cycle transfer these microbial communities and then manipulate them through that process. And so, you know, we were introducing transferring these microbial communities, we were introducing our pathogen of interest trying to, you know, see if we could push the continuum of disease upwards and short see an increase in disease. And the hope is that if they were having these continual interactions, again, between the community, the pathogen and the host, we could potentially see similar dynamics that are showing and have been shown in some of the suppressive soils examples where we get this huge disease outbreaks. And then there's a sudden loss of that disease severity. And so we designed this experiment in the hopes that we would see this and fortunately, we were actually able to see similar dynamics and our work as well in the biosphere. So it was, it was a very high risk experiment for a PhD student to be following. Because we were not too sure of the outcomes of this kind of work. But transferring and relating to the knowledge is really out there in plant pathology really helped us in designing this experiment thinking about, you know, how is this going to ecologically impact these communities, while it's interacting without pathogen of interest, and it just kind of grew from there. And then I spent many, many months in the greenhouse, trying to get this to work. And at least, you know, we were able to fortunately show this particular dynamic, which we see in soils, and now we could kind of experimentally show it happening in the fall this year.

16:24  
JIm: It's a great study, and I think your approach really is creative. It's, I would describe it as elegant. You know, at first I I understood the general approach that you were taking, but I was really at a loss of how you would do this experimentally. But when I read your paper, and understood your approach is that yes, that's, that really makes a lot of sense. And to me, that's elegant science, when, when somebody else does it, and you say, yes, that's, of course, the way it should be done. So congratulations on this study. Curious, though, what what comes next here, and what do you see as the the application for disease management in the field.

17:09  
Hanareia: As this study is really the first of its kind, like, you know, this is sitting, setting the stage, really, you know, it's a proof of concept that, you know, we could potentially manipulate these particular communities in the phyllosphere, for plant health, you know, to work against plant diseases, there's still a lot to figure out in terms of what's actually happening here. And, and, you know, in suppressive soils, that that kind of that type of research has been going on for decades, and they're still finding new things, they still find out interactions that might be important, and how we can manipulate those soils. So, you know, this is just the very beginning of this work. I am also currently putting a paper together to show the microbiome side of what was happening throughout this experiment. So you know, we can see who's there, what they might be doing and when they're doing it. So we're trying to target see if there's any key players in a key fungi or bacteria, or viruses that might be influencing the disease dynamics in our work. And then also looking at some of their functionalities, and what they maybe they have a toxin, maybe they have a peptide, you know, who knows what might be happening. So we'll be trying to publish that sometime soon. And amongst everything else that's happening. But really, I think this is really just the beginning of this story. And there are tons of pathologists just microbiome people, you know, plant health and in general, are really looking at how we can shift to either biological controls or just using what nature has given us in the first place to work with it. Rather than introducing things that aren't necessarily good for our environment at the same time. There. There's already a student in my lab group that's already following on with this, but with a different pathogen. So you know, we're trying to see if this can be used for multiple pathogens. And I think the next thing is trying to think of, you know, if we can implement this at a field scale, it was easy enough to do in the greenhouse, I can control it, I can, you know, manipulate every single part of that experiment. But what really needs to be done as can we transfer this knowledge to the field? Because that's where it needs to be applied. So that'll probably be future stages of this work. And, yeah, it really just comes into thinking about how can we holistically work with our environment to prevent plant disease. And this is one way because there are plenty of microbes in our environment that are going to either be beneficial or not at different times. So yeah, I'm very excited for this line of research and I'm really looking forward to seeing where it goes in the future?

20:02  
Jim: Yeah, so my scientific cliffhanger, stay tuned. We do look forward to reading this paper, but also that the future work that's going to come out really, really is a pretty exciting line of research and, and I highly recommend this paper to anyone who's listening. So this really wraps up your your PhD work. Again, you very recently and very successfully defended congratulations, where does your career go next.

20:31  
Hanareia: So I'll be heading home back to Altero, New Zealand to continue my research career as a postdoctoral fellow. And I'll also be hosted by plant and food research who are kind of going back to my roots, which is pretty amazing, as an early career researcher to be having that opportunity. And so not exactly to show what I'll be doing throughout my postdoc. That's for me to figure out once I'm back home, but overall, it's really looking at trying to promote healthy ecosystems, both in agriculture, and also in our natural systems, as we have many significant plants that are culturally relevant to Maori back in New Zealand. So, you know, anything to do with that. So hopefully, I'll be looking at plant diseases and micro biomes in some form or whatnot. But also being able to connect back to indigenous science, my indigenous knowledge, and, you know, kind of working on research for Maori with Mali, and really answering the questions that they they want answered, well, that needs to be answered. So that, you know, as a people, they can flourish, but also as a country, and an environment that can flourish as well. So yeah, I'm really looking forward to hitting home. You know, I've spent enough time here in Turtle Island in the USA. And I'll I'll be taking everything that I've learned and sharing it with everyone back home.

22:06  
Jim: Great. We wish you the best of luck in this future post that. And you mentioned something really eager to know more about your indigenous upbringing, and how this has influenced your perspectives as a scientist. And this is an area that you've you've really had pretty significant impact. As a graduate student, recently, I, I viewed the presentation that you did, as part of the the Phipps conservatory and botanical gardens, nature of place symposium that was held just pre pandemic in February of 2020. I should mention the FIPS conservatories in Pittsburgh and the good opportunity to make a plug for plant health 2022 which will be held in Pittsburgh very soon. In fact, many of us will be heading there and just a week or so. In this talk, which was called to Hunga, the interconnection of Maori in nature, you talk about indigenous perspectives around nature and historical knowledge about the environment and how this is informed your sciences. And you introduce the concept of fakapapa, tell us about what fakapapa is and how it's influenced the way you see plant pathology.

23:31  
Hanareia: So for 
Māori who are indigenous to Aotearoa, New Zealand, fakapapa can be loosely translated in English as genealogy. But it's a bit more than that, in terms of if you think of just English word of genealogy, fakapapa, it goes beyond that. And typically, when one introduces themselves, they will kind of talk about the effect. And that will start with the place and the area that the from. So you're connecting yourself to the rivers to the mountains to the ocean, you know, this is this is you and that's your fakapapa. Yes, you have your human fakapapa. So you have your ancestors that have been on those lands, in those rivers in the oceans, that you kind of come from. And so your connection is more than just you and your immediate family. It's really you, your family, your community, your larger community, which also includes the environment, you know, everything is connected, as in the title with 200 title where it's the interaction and interconnectedness of everything that is around you. But you are not central to that either. You were just part of everything that is around you as well. So for fakapapa and thinking about our place in nature, and also plan pathology, really what I'm trying to do as a researcher, but then also just as a person who is belonging to a particular area, it's taking care of everyone and everything in that environment that I'm in. Because I fakapapa to them. And so I should be also a caretaker of that, because they are a caretaker of me. And so it's really holistic, kind of cyclical in nature, and how I've gone about learning Western science and the tools that we have in western science, and adding that to the science that we have in my cultural knowledge in my traditional knowledge that I've learned throughout my being, and really bringing the two together. Because now that I think about it, that is my fakapapa. Yes, I have my culture. But then I've also learned all these other things from other people who come from other cultures, and now that as part of me, and so yeah, as a researcher, that that's really my research. Fakapapa, in a sense, that's my research genealogy. And that's what I'm hoping to strive to do, when I hit back home.

26:15  
Jim: So tell me more about your time in the US and how your indigenous perspectives have created opportunities or, or maybe challenges for you throughout your grad school period, how people reacted.

26:27  
Hanareia: So I think for myself, Yes, I'm an indigenous person, but I'm in I'm a visitor to these lands, you know, I'm currently staying and occupying on the lands of the Shawnee and Susquehanna nations. And so, yes, I'm indigenous, but I'm not indigenous to here where I'm currently located. And so it has been a wonderful gift to be able to learn from the peoples of these lands, and be able to visit them, talk with them, share stories, find connections, in between our cultures, you know, how we think about the world, how we want the world to be, and being able to share experiences, you know, the good, and the bad, you know, thinking about colonization, how institutions are, you know, necessarily indigenizing themselves are even welcoming of indigenous peoples, you know, and then to going and learning from, you know, the elders of different nations that are sharing stories that have been passed on for millennia, and things like that, and combining that in my time here in the land that we currently call the United States of America. So it's been interesting, but then I've also been asked to be the indigenous person at things and it's very uncomfortable, because I'm like, this is this is not where I'm from, I shouldn't be the person doing this. But I'm the only one here. So you know, I've been as supportive as I can of, you know, finding community here with other indigenous peoples from around the world. I think that's one of one of the greatest things that university institutions kind of have is that they bring a lot of people together from many, many different places. And so I've been able to connect with indigenous peoples from all over the world, just being at my university here. So yeah, there's positives and negatives. And there's been challenges in terms of being an indigenous person. I'm also a white passing indigenous person as well. So I can't necessarily talk to the struggles of those who look more like what people assume they would look like, I can kind of glide in and out. But once they hear my name, or I stopped talking, you know, very, in a way that I speak naturally, as an indigenous person about the world, then a lot of people's tunes will change. So, yeah, and it also in the scientist world, there's not many indigenous pathologists that I've been able to meet so far, I've made a few, but there is not many. And thinking about, you know, as plant pathologist, we're here to promote plant health, to promote healthy ecosystems. And I really, really shouldn't be a clash between the two, because as an indigenous person from where I'm from, from my views, at least, those two, and that's the same where I can, I'm thinking about the environment and saw plant pathologist, you know, we're wanting to make sure that there is an environment for the next generation so that they can grow all the plants that they want, and, you know, all over the world. So, yeah, it's been an interesting time being away, and also being an indigenous person as well.

29:57  
Jim: And you mentioned having the opportunity to interact with indigenous people from all over the world. And that really is one of the great things about our university communities, that diversity that these educational institutions Foster. What is that been like for you? What are? Are you finding that indigenous people from throughout the world are very different? Very similar? Are there commonalities that you come across that surprised you?

30:31  
Hanareia: Oh, yeah, for sure. There are definitely many experience experiences that we can share that are similar, you know, in terms of the sentiment, the emotion that goes behind it. Also, just some of the great epistemologies and different stories that we have, how you know, how we kind of connect with our environments, you know, either many of us will, you know, use a Stella Luna ecological calendar, you know, so it is placed based kind of knowledge. But, you know, it's all different for where we're from, because our environments are different and need to be adapted to, but overall, like using very similar kinds of ways of trying to understand our environment. And so that's been great, you know, we can share stories. You know, many of our ancestors have already interacted many, many hundreds of years ago, whether it's over a boat, and now it's over an airplane. So you know, there is many goings and backwards and forwards between many of the people that I've met in terms of culture wise, which has been amazing. Because as an indigenous person, the more perspectives you have of the world of what people need in their things, then you can appreciate what you have at home, but then you can also help everyone improve together. Because, you know, we, as indigenous people, it's all about the communities and that communities, it's not just the humans, that all the communities that are around us, which I guess in our sense, includes the microbe microbial community, which is pretty cool, as well. So, ya know, I've been able to meet a lot of different people. The one thing that I have enjoyed Well, one of the many things that I have enjoyed while being here on Turtle Island is that I arrived and found out that they also make frybread here, which I didn't know, when I was coming here, and I thought I'd have to leave it back home. And Aotearoa was like, oh, no, I'm gonna miss out on my fried bread. Got here, though, like, we've got you. Here, here's some fried bread enjoy. And so I've learned many, many different ways to eat bread now that I can now go home, and kind of share and kind of experience with my own family when I go back there. So yeah, there's all sorts of connections, including indigenous science as well, you know, just thinking about how we think about the world, and how all the different observations, you know, have been made for millennia, that is now kind of seeping in to the traditional western science world, or at least they're finding out stuff that we can do for ages, and how we can kind of work together to benefit our environments and our communities as well. So, ya know, it's definitely been a highlight of my time being here, it's connecting with all the different communities that I've been able to connect with.

33:24  
Jim: It's wonderful, and to know that you're taking those perspectives back to New Zealand, as well, and incorporating into your science. I am curious that, you know, we're obviously living in a time of really significant climate change, globally. And, you know, I, for one always tell science, and of course, I mean, Western science, when I say that, as part of the solution, where do you see indigenous perspectives and indigenous science fitting into to climate change?

34:03  
Hanareia: I think indigenous people have been at the forefront of the climate change, kind of issues and solutions, since it probably became a term. Or even before then, as I said, at least for me, and my experiences and my culture, you know, the environment is at the forefront of everything that we do. And so if climate change is affecting that, then obviously we would take action and find solutions to support that, so that for us, you know, so it's the next three, four generations are still going to have the pristine environment that we have enjoyed while we've been here on this on this planet. So I, at least from my knowledge, they've always been there. They've always wanted to be part of the conversation that has been taken without them. And, you know, there's many un delegations from many, many different tribes across the world that have gone there to talk about how the effects of climate change are are really heavily affecting them, particularly seeing as about 80% of our diversity is taken care of by indigenous communities, indigenous peoples, and how that, you know, trying to take care of those, but what else we're doing in the world is making that harder for them. And, you know, we want to keep that biodiversity. And that's not just in plants, that's an animal's microbes and everything in between. So, in terms of climate change, at least from where I'm from, I've always been a part of that conversation, always concerned about the environment and the toll that it's taking on our environment. I think it's just that we have been heavily excluded from communications that might be or talks that are happening at that higher kind of governmental kind of worldwide conversation. And I think it's about time that the turn the tables were kind of turned. And, you know, if we put all indigenous peoples in charge of climate change, I think we could really, really start making moves to kind of, you know, protect what we've got, before it's gone.

36:12  
Jim: Yeah, I want to thank you for widening my my perspectives on our science and making science more inclusive. There's a lot to learn. And I appreciate you really being at the forefront of talking about indigenous science and its intersection with biology in particular, we really do need your perspectives. And I appreciate that. I'm wondering if you have any advice for undergraduate student mentors or employers who are maybe in a position to support indigenous scientists early in their career? What what do we need to know?

36:58  
Hanareia:I think firstly, it's I don't think it's necessarily has to start at the individual level, it'd be great if it does. But obviously, systemic systemic change would be amazing. Thinking about decolonization, indigenisation of our institutions that, you know, hold many of the faculty that our students we have to work with to get out degrees and things like that. But it would great, it'd be great to see more indigenous professors in science in pathology, you know, so to be able to see ourselves in a system that wasn't built for us, would be great to start off with. And then I think it's really just supporting in whatever avenue that student wants to take. And, and I think we've done that, partly in plant pathology, we're always thinking about, you know, the farmers growers, what we, you know, what we call stakeholders, and making sure that what we're doing is having an impact for them. So now, I think people just might need to broaden that aspect of your, okay, what how is this affecting this community, or in particular, this indigenous community. And just because they're not where you might be working now, because of colonization and all the impacts that has happened since then, that you should still be trying to reconnect with those people that the lands that you're on, were traditionally theirs, and were taken care of by those people. And so it's really just broadening that horizon. And, and trying to take, you know, an interest and do your own readings and listening to different podcasts and things like that, that are around indigenous science, because there's plenty of them. And I love them to bits, because you can learn, you know, science is part of the ways of knowing of different cultures. And so what I like to say about myself is that I'm a learner of Sciences, and not science, because there are many different sciences in the world that can be used and weaves together to really come up with some, I don't know, creative and innovative solutions that we always talk about. And we always want to see, and I think that is definitely the next frontier is that a scientist who are not exposed or traditionally around indigenous communities can really make some connections and support the people and what their questions are. As I was saying, Before, while we're chatting, you know, I want to do science, full Maori by Maori with Maori because in the end, I am not necessarily an agent of change, but I have all these tools that I can help support other people in their journeys and what they want to do in plant pathology, and trying to prevent plant diseases, but then also trying to create those healthy, healthy ecosystems that we all want, really. So yeah, I think indigenous science is the way to go. And I think the more you learn, the more you expose yourself to, if you're not in these kind of areas or circles then I think you'll only see a benefit to yourself to your live group to the universities to the institutions to waive, and you are a Yeah, I implore you, and then implore everyone to really, really make an effort even just to learn, whose land you're on what the people were, how they were, what they are now, as many of them are still here today. And then connecting that with your science and being like, this is another community that I can work with and support, including students. You know, I had a great advisor in terms of him being supportive of really doing whatever I wanted in terms of connecting with indigenous communities, going to conferences like sadness, and Asus, who are all about, you know, diversity in science, indigenous science scientists from this area. And yeah, then just being able to really connect and learn from the people hear about their struggles, and also their wonderful and amazing cultures as well.

41:00  
Jim: That is incredibly inspiring. Thank you so much for your perspectives and for taking the time to meet with us on Plantopia.

41:10  
Hanareia: You're welcome. It's been great talking with you, Jim.

41:14  
Jim: We just heard from Dr. Hanareia Ehau-Taumaunu who recently completed her PhD at Pennsylvania State University, and will be pursuing a postdoc with New Zealand Institute for plant and food research. I'm Jim Bradeen, the host of Plantopia podcast. Thank you so much for joining us and we will talk next time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai