Speaker 2 0:00 Matt: Welcome back to Plantopia. Plantopia is the plant health podcast of the American Phytopathological Society. And I'm your host, Matt Kasson. I'm an associate professor of forest pathology and mycology at West Virginia University. And this is the first episode of season four Plantopia. Today we are welcoming a very familiar guest. I'm very excited to talk to Dr. Jim Bradeen, host of season two and season three of Plantopia, professor of plant pathology, and associate vice president at Colorado State University spur campus. Dr. Bradeen completed a Bachelors of Science in horticulture at Michigan State University and a master's in PhD and plant molecular genetics from the University of Wisconsin Madison. I've known Jim for a number of years through our shared service work with APS. And he's probably without exaggeration, one of the most beloved members of our professional society. Jim has had a very productive academic career as both a researcher and teacher. And more recently as an administrator. Jim served as a longtime professor in the Department of Plant Pathology at the University of Minnesota, transitioning to the role of department head from 2013 through 2022, where he helped found and direct the Stockman Borlaug Center. In 2022, he accepted a position as vice president for spur strategy at Colorado State University in Denver. As you might imagine, Jim has an extensive list of research publications, invited presentations and awards, including several related to distinguished teaching, mentoring, and diversity. Jim is what I refer to as an APS superstar. In addition to serving as host for the past two seasons here on Plantopia, Jim is chair of the land topia podcast Steering Committee. He served as the internal communications officer and governing council member from 2018 through 2022. He has served as a member and chair of the APS committee for Diversity Equity inclusion since 2010. And as a member and Chair of the Academic unit leaders forum from 2013 through 2022. Jim, it's a real pleasure to have you here today on the other side of the microphone. It's been interesting and exciting to see how you've transformed land topia over the last 24 episodes. And it's really exciting for me to be taking over the reins, and something that's near and dear to both our hearts. Plant Pathology. Welcome. Unknown Speaker 2:34 Jim: Yeah. Thanks for having me. Congratulations. And thank you for taking over this host role. I'm really excited to see where you take this podcast and how it continues to evolve. Speaker 2 2:44 Matt: Yeah, so I thought we'd talk a little bit about your educational background and kind of career over the last few decades. Clearly, in interviewing people, part of your story comes out and trying to relate to them about their experiences and their research. And looking back at kind of your academic history, you were educated in the Midwest, Michigan State and you did a bachelor's in horticulture, followed by a masters and a PhD at University of Wisconsin. Are you a Midwest boy? Are you from the Midwest? Unknown Speaker 3:15 Jim: Yeah, um, yeah. So I actually grew up in Michigan as I'm a Michigander so hello to Michigan out there that he'd spent the early years of my life on a great farm, not a winery. It was a great farm. We actually brew concord grapes for Welch's jams and jellies. And you think it really was those early years that got me interested in the plant sciences. Speaker 2 3:36 Matt: Yeah, that makes sense, going from horticulture and then eventually into plant molecular genetics. What kind of experiences on the farm did you have there? This was your family farm. Unknown Speaker 3:48 Jim: It was my family farm. My parents, I think it was two years old when we moved there. Neither of my parents actually came from farming backgrounds. So they decided, for whatever reason to make a go of it, I have to share that it really didn't go very well. We were we spent about a decade or so on the farm. But those were really formative years for me, obviously, exposure to agriculture in a big sense. My parents were big gardeners. My grandmother actually was a implants woman and the eighth grade her with a few Lena, an interest in plants that I had from an early age and it was pretty unusual. I'll just say back then, or a nerdy little gay kid to be interested in plants. It wasn't something that my classmates were pursuing. But I think those early years really did fuel an interest in plants more broadly gardening in particular horticulture. And it was probably about 11 years old when I read an article, a magazine article about Henry Munger, who was a plant breeder at cucurbit breeder at Cornell University and it was the first time I realized that I could actually have a career in plants I could play with plants. For my own life and get paid for that, and I think that just feel this interest that really burns break even today. Speaker 2 5:06 Matt: Yeah, and looking over your CV and the kind of crops and plants you've worked on. Of course, you've done a lot of work with solanaceous crops, of course, but I saw a cucumber and Rose and a couple other things tied into there and you're bringing up the cucumbers and links that in there was an interest there were roses, some of the things that you were interested in as a kid? Unknown Speaker 5:27 Jim: Not particularly my mother actually was named Rose. So of course, she always up and a lot of roses in the garden. But I was merely age interested in horticultural crops. And really, as you pointed out, throughout my career, worked on a lot of different crops. All of them, though, had been horticultural roses really came about through collaborations when I was a professor at University of Minnesota, collaborated with people like Stan Hokanson, who is an ornamental woody plant breeder, Jim Looby, who was an apple breeder, both rose and Apple been in the Rose ACA. And they're great scientists and great people. So it was fun to work with them on a whole variety of projects. And I think that really fueled an interest in the realization of crops. And so that's an area that I have worked in, so NACA beam, the other big plant family that I've worked in? Speaker 2 6:17 Matt: Well, I'll hold you to this question, because it's one that's often asked, but we're talking about it now. So it's an intuitive leap is of the plant groups you've worked with, really, what are you most passionate about? I know that changes over time. I assume that there's a lot of interest in solanaceous crops and still, to this day, you're mentoring students back from Minnesota and serving on committees? Where do you stand on all that? Unknown Speaker 6:45 Jim: Well, that's a tough question. What would you have your baby that hits your favorite? That's right, I think I do have pretty broad interest in the plant families plant science in general. I think the connective tissue in the work that I've done has been the use of plant genetic diversity to make our horticultural crops more sustainable. So that's true in the potato Lake light system that I've worked in. It's true in rose black spot and an apple scab. If you notice, I'm not really answering your question, which was my favorite. But I think they're all very different. I certainly, I do have particular interest in some of the plant genera that are in the Solon ACA, I'm also increasingly interested in adaptation of plants to dry environments. So I'm starting to look at Keck, TCA, and some of these plant families that are really associated with with dry environments. Speaker 2 7:38 Matt: So it may be hard to pick a favorite plant and I get that, of course, you've worked on oomycetes cbord done fungal pathogens, and trying to understand resistance and breeding for resistance and important crops like potato and Rose, do you find it more challenging or enjoyable to work with? Oh my see pathogens versus fungal pathogens? Or have you devoted equal parts of your career working on both? It seems like you have a longer history with late blight. Unknown Speaker 8:04 Jim: Yeah, my dirty little secret is that unlike so many of our listeners, and so many of the guests on plant topia, my my educational background really was more in the plant sciences proper. So I always approached plant pathology and Plant Health, from a plant and disease resistance point of view. So I'm somewhat agnostic in terms of what pathogens I work on. Like I think the the old mice eats the effect after invested as being a classic example is such an incredibly destructive plant pathogen. It's hard to work in the field of pathology, certainly in the field of disease, resistance to potato and not work on the top there infestans. I think it's maybe a little more tractable to work on some of the fungal pathogens I've had interaction with. But I think I've always been interested in always adopted the perspective of plant resistance first. So there are certain commonalities between the crops or the species that I've worked on the plant species that I've worked on, not only because they're horticultural crops, but because of some of the complexity of their genome, for example. Speaker 2 9:13 Matt: Right. I think one of the things we have in common is that we have a strong plant background as plant pathologists, I did three degrees in forestry before getting into plant pathology. And I think that was a great thing because it really made me understand and appreciate plant diversity, and understand plant biology. And it gave me this really good baseline for better understanding and appreciating plant disease. because you spend so much time around plants and thinking about plants, then you naturally transition to study diseases that impact those plants. And you would I talked about that during my interview, but I could see that in you as well. Unknown Speaker 9:55 Jim: I think it also reflects what my theology is. It's such a big tent discipline, there really is room for various different educational pathways. I come you come from this plant world where some of our colleagues might be experts in bacteria or viruses or fungi, or Oh, my seeps and somehow our shared interests of making lamps healthy, making agriculture sustainable, those overarching goals allow us to really work together and create of different ways, right? Speaker 2 10:26 Matt: Absolutely. One of the other things that we share in common that I really wanted to bring up was, you have a Master's of Science before you went into your PhD, you got a master's from the same institution, University of Wisconsin Madison, I also have a Master's, I did that at a separate institution than my Ph. D. program. But I think there's this big drive by institutions to push PhDs. And a lot of people bypass getting a master's degree. Do you feel like the master's degree as a stepping stone into graduate school is a smart move? What do you what are your feelings on that? Unknown Speaker 11:03 Jim: First, let me explain my master's because I didn't quite follow the pathway that you just articulated, okay, actually started in the Ph. D. program at University of Wisconsin, this was in plant breeding and plant genetics. At the time, maybe even now, they had the option to receive the master's degree, as an integral part of that I actually entered grad school thinking that I would pursue a PhD and that opportunity was available. So I pursued that master's with the same graduate advisor and like Haiti, however, as a longtime instructor fight, I think the master's degree really does have some value. I think for so many of our students today, there's an interest not necessarily in the traditional academic route, not not becoming professors, for example, but maybe working in industry or in government. And I think there are a lot of very valid, meaningful, important career pathways that really lends itself to the master's degree as a terminal degree. I think, even though, for students that are interested in going that more traditional route, for whatever reason, not earning a PhD degree, the Master's does give a student an opportunity to try out a project to try out a graduate advisor, make sure there's a good fit before committing anything, especially when there is a change in institution along the way, that broadens horizons, every university I've been connected with as a sort of a different culture, a different flavor, different approach. And these are subtle differences. But it's important, I think, to develop well rounded professionals to be exposed to a variety of different cultures. Speaker 2 12:40 Matt: Yeah, that's a really good point, when I was at the University of Maine, completing my bachelor's degree, my undergraduate advisor offered me an opportunity to stay on to complete my master's. But he also said in the same breath, you should move on to another institution for your PhD because it's good to diversify your experiences. He wasn't one of these individuals that said, No, every degree has to be from a unique institution, they have to be separated by 2000 miles. I think some of the old guard has different thoughts about whether or not you should stay at the same institution. But I think still having the option to get a masters along the way, is a nice one, because it gives people a time to reflect, maybe pause and think about, Do I have a healthy relationship with my advisor? Or do I know what my next steps are? Do I need that PhD to get the job that I really want? Unknown Speaker 13:33 Jim: Yeah, it's a great point. And one thing that I've observed over the years and actually advice to various students on is that the PhD degree while phenomenal, it does lead to these incredible career pathways that are just absolutely privileged. At the same time, the PhD degree is somewhat limiting. I think there's a lot more career flexibility associated with the master's degree than with the PhD. And I come really from an academic background. So I'm probably speaking more about the academic pathway. But most of my colleagues, most of the folks that I've known over the years ended up moving sometimes great distances to pursue their academic career. In all the life changes, the family complexities that go along with that are really almost a hallmark of that PhD level approach where the Masters there are more opportunities out there. Geographically, I think it's a little bit more flexible, Speaker 2 14:31 Matt: Tinking about and talking about career changes and moving you recently made a big career move yourself. After 20 years at the University of Minnesota, you moved to join CSU Colorado State University. And that's been a big move for you. Do you want to talk a little bit about what you're doing there? And what may be inspired you to move on after such a successful two decades in Minnesota first as Professor then as you department head, then as founder of the Stockman, Borlaug center, you accomplished a great deal in Minnesota. And it's clear that you had a tremendous positive impact on the Department while you were there. Yeah, please tell us all about your new your new venture here and Colorado and what you're up to. Unknown Speaker 15:19 Jim: Yeah, thanks for that. I guess this is a good moment for me to give a shout out to University of Minnesota and the Department of Plant Pathology there. In particular, the as you mentioned, I spent more than 20 years there as a faculty really coming up in ranks. And it's a place with an incredible history and an even brighter future. And I love every individual in that department. I love that department. After leading it for almost nine years as department head, I felt that I had done what I could do for the department. So I have to say that I inherited the role of department head from Carol Ishimaru, who was a professor, I believe she got her start at Colorado State University, we hired her University of Minnesota to be the department head, she went on to the APS president, so many of our listeners certainly know her, she had done so much to transform our department to really bring it into a modern era. And I appreciated that work so much, it really gave us a strong foundation on which to build further. So I think we collectively did a lot of really incredible things to rethink the department, our role in society, our commitment to students in the field of plant pathology. After nine years, though, I did feel that I'd done what I could do for the department. And while it was going well, I did feel that what I could offer really was more of the same. So I felt at the time the department would benefit from fresh ideas, new leadership at the same time in this was very much in the height of the pandemic, which probably outside fluids, my thinking as it has for so many of us. But I was also feeling that I was ready for new challenges or fashionably. I didn't, for various reasons, didn't see that happening at University of Minnesota. And we decided to spend one year looking elsewhere, other institutions, or a new opportunity for me. And if we had lived in Minneapolis, love the city was a great place to be all those years, we had a very short list of other places we'd like to live Denver be one of them. And it just so happened that Colorado State University was creating a brand new campus in Denver and was looking for somebody to lead the academic programming there. So it was somewhat fortuitous, I think, in the way that I evolved my role right now I'm an Associate Vice President for the CSC spur campus and CSU sorry, the Colorado State University is in Fort Collins, Colorado, which is in the northern part of the state. Denver's about an hour and 15 minutes south of there. We've established a small campus in Denver, and I work across the university with eight different colleges with extension with our Ag Experiment Station, to bring programming to life here. Now what's really unique about CSU spur is that its outward facing. And to me, it's an exploration of how land grant universities are evolving to meet the needs and expectations opportunities of society. And so I think of Voc spur in part as a sandbox, allowing us to test out new ideas of how we teach how we make educational opportunities accessible, which ultimately influences who gets to be part of that. So we have a number of academic programs that we offer on site. This includes programming really along a pre K to gray Lifelong Learning spectrum. So we do a lot of work with, for example, high school students to demonstrate careers to have conversations about career opportunities. We offer a variety of summer camps that help students envision themselves in careers or to prepare for college. We have a small number of undergraduate classes that we're offering on site right now, as well as a Master's and PhD programs, a growing number of certificate programs. We've just expanded Oh, sure, lifelong learning, which is actually a nationwide program here in the US that bills itself as a mini college for people over 50. So we've expanded this program to include courses that we're offering at CSC spur as well. This is really unique campus where we're really reinventing our educational relationship. And to meet the theme that is most valuable is one of educational flexibility, for example, our undergraduate classes, and we have two undergraduate biology courses that we're teaching on site. But these are in hybrid format. The lectures are asynchronous online, so students access the lectures whenever wherever they're ready for it. And then the lab experiences are taught at CSU spur in Denver, but not as a sort of Tuesday, Thursday afternoon class that we might be all familiar with. But as a one day a month, Saturday intensive students are on site six or eight hours on one day a month, beating that laboratory experience, Speaker 2 20:01 Matt: That's a great opportunity to bring them in. Because I feel like that uninterrupted learning for six to eight hours is going to really help them wrap their heads around something versus coming in for one hour, for four days a month or something like that. Unknown Speaker 20:15 Jim: Yeah, exactly. In we're all very different, right? People are different learners are different. And the way you learn is different. Plus your life situations might dictate unusual schedules. So we lean into things like weekend courses, evening courses, certificate programs as either a complement or an alternative to degree programs. So lots of different opportunities. And I think fundamentally, our new campus in Denver is really about diversifying our Career Pathways providing different opportunities for different learners here in Denver. Speaker 2 20:48 Matt: Obviously, lifelong learning over 50, small college summer camps, opportunities for high schoolers. This is all new, all these initiatives are new, because spur is new. What do you seen the most growth in so far? Are you not at the point where you have metrics for that? What's working? What's not? Unknown Speaker 21:05 Jim: Yeah, we just two days ago celebrated our one year anniversary. So here are quite new, we have three buildings, the third of which is been open a year now. So we are still building out that programming. And when I say programming, the majority of it comes from the faculty in Fort Collins. And so this, again, is a wide array from the arts to engineering, certainly agriculture is a big footprint. I would say our educational programs are still new enough, that we're figuring out what works and what doesn't. We have some unique research, though, that is really going like gangbusters. And this includes research on things like agri Voltex of growing crops under solar panels, which probably doesn't work very well in much of the country. But in really funny areas like Colorado, it does. We have also a growing emphasis in innovation. So this idea of helping researchers bring discoveries to market, helping the needs of industry drive research interests, preparing students for careers as a business leader, that I think has been a really early success. It's taken many different forms from agribusiness and Food Innovation Management, to biosystems engineering. So a wide array of opportunities to interact with industry in brand new ways. So I've been associated vice president for almost two years now. And my job is to talk about spur all day every day and get people excited about I promise listeners, though, that this is a brand new concept in higher education. And it defies a simple definition. So let me invite you to come to Denver to visit this place. Our buildings are open to the public, it's free to come and take a look. And if you want reach out to me happy to give tours or talk to you about this amazing place. It really is something that I think is worth the trip to see. Speaker 2 22:54 Matt: Okay, let's talk on that a little more than a year, one year in what's been in your eyes, your greatest accomplishment in your time there. Unknown Speaker 23:02 Jim: When I first came here, there were obviously robust building plans and all three of our buildings were under construction. And there were some nascent early I called them the pioneering projects that had been hand picked to be on site. But there was a lot of confusion within our Fort Collins community, the faculty and staff, the students about what this thing even is what's the SU spur is. So I've been able to number one articulate a vision for how CSU spur helps our land grant campus and Fort Collins really extend that promised to reinvent to reinvest in our relationship with society, through education, through research, through service and outreach. And I spent a lot of time in Fort Collins a lot of time talking with deans and faculty and department chairs about the opportunities here. And that has translated I think, into a bigger understanding, but also some incredible creativity. We have three beautiful buildings, but it is the creativity of the faculty that bring our abilities to life. And I see my role really as being that guy to help people explore possibilities, and then to test out some of the new ideas on site changes heart and CSU spurs a place that really requires folks to think differently to reinvent themselves. So I've been, I think, really successful in supporting our community to get the most out of this place. Speaker 2 24:32 Matt: I think as long as I've known you, and I don't even know how long it is, but clearly we've interacted through our professional side EPS, a number of times, I've always admired your kind of vision. You tend to be a person who is a big idea guy. And I think that that's reflected in the kinds of positions that you've held. You were a department head, a very successful one in Minnesota. You helped to found the Stockman, Borlaug center, you're helping inspira get off the ground here, I want to tie this back to something that maybe some of our listeners might be thinking about is that at some point in your academic trajectory, or career path, you might be interested in in more administrative work, you may be more interested in leading, serving those roles, whether it be a professional society, and you've really embraced those leadership roles. I guess a question that I have, is that kind of a unidirectional trajectory? Where it's once you get into that track, it's hard to pivot back to that flame in your heart for research? And what advice might you give students who, or even academics, PIs that are interested in and maybe having more of a role in shaping their departments, whether it be a chair of the department or just getting more involved in leadership? Unknown Speaker 25:49 Jim: That's a great question. And I think administration in higher ed at least really gets a bad rap so often, and I certainly the faculty member never saw myself as a leader never saw myself aspiring to be a department head. So it was a lot more opportunistic than at my age, I actually appear. I got into this, and I guess it was 2013, I had just become full professor and was undergoing something of a personal professional crisis of around what I wanted my career to be efficient, and where can you have impact? And I think that was the driving question for me about that time Karishma room whom I mentioned was the department had announced that she would be stepping down, I guess it was my husband first he came to me and said, You should really think about doing this. And I said, No, I'll never do that. That's that's not a role I see myself and, and then several of my colleagues at University of Minnesota, one by one came to me and said, if you wanted to do this, we'd support that. So I went from, I'll never do this to, I think I'm going to apply in about three weeks, I was really amazed about six months in to realize that I really enjoy it, it is very different than leading your own research project, for example. But you said at a higher level where you can see an embrace the broad impact of Abreu by the Department of Plant Pathology in this particular case, and can become an advocate in supporting other people's vision and building collective goals. I like that role. It's something I think I did well. And I would say it was probably a year or two into my role as department head that I woke up one morning realizing I'm good at this, which was certainly not a skill set that I thought I had. So as I deepen my interest in higher ed administration, I guess I see that leadership as a talent that I can bring to the table. It has come at a cost to my own personal research. And I admire so many of our colleagues who have been academic leaders in different ways and have kept their research program strong. I am not one of those individuals still very much have interest and passion for it. But realized probably six or seven years ago now that I was always feeling either I wasn't doing enough for my research, or I was shortchanging the department. So there was always this uneasy tension that I felt and never quite felt good about either role that I was playing. So I made a very conscientious decision to backburner my research, those interests are still there, I'm actually in the process right now of reinventing some of my most recent research interests as a learning asset for CSC spur. But that's allowed me to lean into administration and leadership in a way that I think has been good. If you're interested in these career pathways. Number one, talk to folks that are already in there, get different perspectives, cuz you're gonna hear a bunch of different ideas and pathways. It's not everyone, I think can really successful leaders approach the role as servants. And I've learned actually, there's this whole field of philosophy called the servant leader, where you really do see yourself for example, as a department head, you might see yourself as a servant to support the faculty or the research staff or the graduate students that are in the program. So your job becomes really aligned with the needs and opportunities that these individuals face. So it's a different way of thinking, I've really enjoyed though the potential to have broad impact to really elevate what I could do as an individual to a higher level. Speaker 2 29:22 Matt: Yeah. And thinking about something you said, putting your research on the backburner, because in order to give and commit to the department the way that you wanted to commit, your research had to be put on the back burner. It's clear that there are individuals that have the ability to do both research and leadership concurrently and do both very well. But I think this is a good point to bring up to maybe listeners is that you don't have to maintain research if you go into kind of leadership roles or administrative roles, but you still have the ability to do that if that's something you want. Just a matter of time allocation and making sure you're doing both jobs effectively, because you have students counting on you, you have faculty counting on you seems like a lot to balance and I wouldn't want to balance that. But I see maybe why you moved on from Minnesota. In that raises the question, if you had had a stronger research component that you were still maintaining, do you think you would have felt compelled to go back into the professor role in your research, and stay there rather than moving on? Because you've devoted so much of your energy until leadership seemed like you didn't have another bigger leadership role to step into? Unknown Speaker 30:38 Jim: That's a very insightful question. So as department head when I was nearing the end of my tenure there and really feeling that I had given what I could to the department and that I was ready for a new change. Certainly one model was to go back to the faculty. By the way, I while I had backburner by research, I'd kept my teaching alive. So that was my compromise. I enjoy teaching. And that was a piece that was personally fulfilling for me. I was still teaching courses as a department head, I referenced a moment ago that we had decided to spend one year looking elsewhere. And our agreement was that I would spend that one year trying to find that dream job out there. And if that didn't happen, I was going back to the faculty, I would have been very happy. Either way, leaving that amazing department at University Minnesota leaving those people leaving our home or friends. That's a big change. And it certainly came with personal challenges as well. So it would have been very easy to stay in that role. And I think I would have very much enjoyed it, but turned out in a different way in it. I think that's one of the messages I guess I'll give to anyone who's thinking about administration is to be open to possibilities that we never saw living in Colorado is part of our life plan by any means. But it's been a really positive change. Speaker 2 31:56 Matt: Yeah. And also you move to a bigger city, right? You went from about what 400,000 to about 700,000? Unknown Speaker 32:03 Jim: Yeah. Denver, more or less as the size of Minneapolis and St. Paul, Minnesota together. So the I guess the greater Metro is probably similar, but the city itself is larger than Minneapolis is Speaker 2 32:16 Matt: Random question, was it challenging to move to an area that was over 4000 feet higher in elevation than where you are previously, Unknown Speaker 32:24 Jim: Neither of us have had any challenges with that, I think we moved into a very tall townhouse. So we do a lot of stairs. And we probably were panting a lot for the first few months of that. And I don't know if that's the altitude or the whole lockdown phase and not going to the gym for several months. But I don't think we really had too many problems adapting. Having said that we spend a lot of time in the mountains, we really have embraced the idea of hiking mountains are incredibly novel for us. And we spend as much time as we can in the mountains. So when you're getting up 11,000 12,000 feet, certainly we're feeling as Speaker 2 33:00 Matt: We talked a little bit about that we knew each other through the American phytopathological society. And of course, that's something that you've given a lot of time and energy to over your career. I think it would be appropriate to talk about how our professional society has shaped your career, including plan topia, which you served as host for the last 24 episodes, you're welcome to talk about any aspects of APs and maybe catch the listeners up on what different committees and your involvement in the society. But definitely want you to address your experiences with plant topia, if you don't mind. Sure, Unknown Speaker 33:36 Jim: APS has been a key part, I think of my development as a plant biologist. And I guess I remind everyone that I really came from strictly the plant side. So the anticipating a career in plant breeding, ending up working in plant disease resistance, and then ultimately ended up at the Department of Plant Pathology. I think APS was really important for me to tap into this field of study, both from an educational perspective to get up to speed about what plant health is all about. Certainly networking, though, has been so important. And you're one of many folks that I've met through APS, actually, I think we met through Twitter, originally. But APS has been, I think, an incredible professional society for me. And I've been members of lots of different professional societies. And I think APS really as a unique culture that you don't see everywhere. The level of involvement of our colleagues as volunteers and APS is phenomenal. you've referenced some of the committees and offices and boards that exist. It's pretty extensive, and it's amazing to have so many of our colleagues give their time so freely and so passionately to further plant health research, plant health impacts. I think it's also very important for early career professionals for graduate students to really build that network and APs in service on committees and APs in particular could really be a key part of that. Over the years, I've been involved in a number of our disciplinary. In APS, I was very involved in the committee for diversity, equity inclusion, I still still am as a member else, which is the academic leader forum. I just, as of this past August, at the end of our plant health meeting, I rotated off APS council. So I served for five years as the internal communications officer, which was really amazing to sit in the council meetings. And to get an appreciation of the scope and scale of work that's done, I have to give a shout out to our presidential lineage. And everyone who's ever served on the presidential lineage, these individuals commit to a four year term leadership term for APS serving versus vice president than President Elect president in the immediate past president. So really, on an annual basis rotating through that, in these people give so much time and so much energy and creativity to APS. It is it's phenomenal to see their work. So APS has been great to be part of this community. You asked about plant topia, in particular, and at this plant will be actually started in 2020, which was the International Year of plant health course that's also when COVID came along. The people were thinking about many things in that time period. But plan topia was envisioned by Mary Paul as a way of reaching out to a broader population to help them understand that plants get sick, that plant pathologists play an important role in society. And so plant topia was just envisioned for that one year, they've had good Dury at Cornell with the host and did a really great job in I think, maybe 20 different episodes were put out in that period. And if anyone wants to go back and review them, they're all available at the landing page for this plane topia, podcast.org. And then when I joined the APS Council, Mark Gleason, who was president at the time said, hey, maybe we should reinvent plan topia really positioning it as an asset for plant scientists, plant pathologist in particular, and approached me about being the host at that point. So I stepped in it in some ways. And I have to admit, I'm not somebody who listens to podcasts a lot. So it was a fun challenge and something I've really enjoyed doing. Speaker 2 37:28 Matt: Do you have a special memory or something that surprised you during those 24 episodes? You did? I'm not looking for you to talk about anything we did. But I'm sure during those 24 episodes, something might have come up in one of the interviews that just changed the way you thought or as like, specific memory of your time as hosts that really stands out. If Unknown Speaker 37:49 Jim: That's there were a lot I think I'd become a lot more conscientious of my raise ology I think some of the early episodes, I'd say, Oh, that's great. Oh, that's great. I had these phrases that he would go to, and probably repeat too much. So I became a little self conscious of what I say. I've really enjoyed meeting some incredible guests over that period of time and asked him some questions that I probably wouldn't ask otherwise, it was fun to be able to pry a little bit and their careers and career interests, a novel to me the importance of smoke or wildfire smoke as a mechanism for dispersal of plant pathogens, the importance of Indigenous ways of knowing in plant pathology and how so much of our science really grew out of as it is currently manifested. Our science that so many of us would think about is broken out of sort of a Western framework, and that there are actually other ways of knowing and thinking about that. I think the importance of international experiences is something that has really stood out. It's something that's always been important to me personally. But as I've talked to more people, those international experiences thinking about plant health as a global challenge, and a global opportunity is something that stands out. Speaker 2 39:05 Matt: Well, having been on the other side of the microphone when you interviewed me, I think the thing that stands out to me personally and listening to some of your other episodes, it's that you really invite people to open up and they feel comfortable opening up to you. And I hope I can embody that, as we move forward with plan topia. But I think it's really important to trust the person interviewing you and know that they're coming from a good place. This is not the kind of podcast where we're talking about controversial things, but people let their guard down. They talk about what makes them human. They talk about their struggles. And as a plant pathologist, I want to hear about research but I want to hear about what makes the researcher human and their path, their unique circumstances. So I think I appreciate the fact that you allowed people the space to talk about those things without feeling like they were pressured and talking about them. they just felt comfortable enough to open up to you. Unknown Speaker 40:02 Jim: I appreciate that a lot. And as we were considering that reboot of plant topia, in season two, I think it was important for all of us to showcase the person behind the science. But yes, talk science, absolutely talk science, but also recognize that we are all humans and bring our messy complexity to the table. And that is referencing something I said earlier that plant pathology really is this big tent field, and that there are different perspectives, different approaches, different areas of expertise. And it all works like magic, because we all share the passion and goal of making plants healthy. Speaker 2 40:38 Matt: As a member of council and serving on a lot of important committees at Apsu help advanced a lot of things regarding di, but you yourself have been a huge advocate for di and your role is department head as faculty. There's a lot of pushback right now, on Dei, of course, and I'm wondering if you had any thoughts or things you'd like to share about that space? It doesn't have to be APS related. But literally, I think you and I are in agreement that our professional society is doing a great job, not just being performative, but actually coming up with a plan to address things and being as inclusive as possible. But not every environment is like that. Not every state is like that. Not every institution is like that. What advice do you have maybe for people that really want those dei initiatives but might not have access to them? Unknown Speaker 41:30 Jim: Yeah, it's tough. And it's a tough time that we're living in, there's no question about that. No matter your political perspective, this is a tough time. I think for me, and my personal commitment to issues of diversity, equity inclusion, really come from my own career path, my own really very improbable career paths, I would say, I come from very humble beginnings, alluded to the fact that my parents weren't very successful farmers. And in fact, we really fell into very significant financial hardship, by the time I was in high school. And I do not come from a traditional educational background, by any sense, my father at an eighth grade education, my mother graduated high school. So I certainly the first in my family to go to school, I don't think I'd be where I am today, if it wasn't for the mentors for institutional investment in things like that land grant university system, the Pell Grant program, which provides educational access, higher higher ed access for low income students, these programs, these sort of broader societal good programs, and individuals really help me develop as a professional and to get to where I'm at. So when I think about that journey, in that really very unlikely journey, I have to recognize that there are so many people for whom education is still not fully accessible, right. And as an educator, as a department head now as Associate Vice President at a university, I'm in a unique role to be able to diversify those opportunities, and to really lean into what education can be for society, to reinvent that where it needs to be reinvented. And throughout my career, I think it's just been a logical extension of my own personal experiences, and wanting to make a difference in whatever way I can. And I think we talk more openly as a society now about opportunities and privilege and biases. And I think that's a good thing. And there's so much more work to be done. So I guess, to answer your question, individuals that depending on where they're at, one, recognize your privilege, and recognize the challenges that you face, seek out those mentors, leaned into opportunities that your institution your employer might offer, your community organizations might offer lean into some of the opportunities that EPS offers, build that network, I think that is a critical piece of it. And for anyone in a leadership role lead with authenticity, I think and recognize that certainly in the educational world, where we all end up is a product of investments that societies have made over centuries. Speaker 2 44:17 Matt: Yeah, that's a great point. One of the things that I think about is that a lot of the students here at West Virginia University that are in the Davis College, interested in agriculture and plant sciences, they tend to be a lot of first generation college students like you were. And there's still a lot of economic hardship in the population that are interested in Plant Sciences continuing on this kind of conversation topic. What advice might you have for students who are considering plant pathology or plant health related studies and how might they get more involved? It sounds like things like spur are providing early opportunities to high schoolers and I think that's A great opportunity to expose high schoolers to career paths in the plant sciences and related to plant health and other things like that. But what advice might you give those students? Unknown Speaker 45:11 Jim: And I think the plant sciences actually agriculture more broadly has evolved so much in my career time. I think when I first as a child, I thought about plant science and being a plant scientist, I saw my role as maybe a farmer or maybe a nursery owner. But I think the field of agriculture has evolved so much agriculture is so tied in with environmental sustainability these days, it is part of that story, it is part of that solution. It's not the foe, right? It's a partner and thinking about our relationship with the environment. Technology has influenced agriculture, so much as as every other aspect of our lives. Obviously, traditional production pathways farmer or rancher, those opportunities are still important, they're still out there. But you also see a reinvention in many communities, you see a reinvention of, in a way old fashioned ideas of small producers selling locally. And so it gets the the piece I've tried to articulate is that there are many different career opportunities in agriculture in the plant sciences, you can live in downtown Denver, and contribute to agriculture in the plant sciences. And I'm living proof of that. So there are a world of opportunities that are out there. The other piece related to that that I want to lean into a little bit is that my recommendation for students is to think broadly about your experiences study, more than just horticulture. I was such a plant nerd. That's all I wanted to study. And I'm surprised at how often I use organic chemistry. And in some of the work that I do, or computer science, I wish I had actually done formal training in computer science, because that's become such an important part of our work. But also beyond your curriculum, pursue professional development opportunities, take workshops in science communication, do the APS workshop on research ethics, for example, pursue international experiences, go work in industry, get out of your comfort zone, I think that is an important part of your evolution as a professional, and you never know where your playing science career is going to go. So these experiences are not something that I think are optional, I think they really are critical to being a successful plant plant. Speaker 2 47:26 Matt: Yeah. And when you think about the way that you know, the industry, and maybe our profession is going, there's a lot of automation, there's a lot of use of AI and a lot of these modern tools that will undoubtedly help our profession. But there may be people that are saying, I want to be that farmer, I want to learn how to do conventional agriculture. And I think there's still opportunities for that. But you're right, there's this kind of like reinvestment and small agriculture and kind of conventional agriculture, concurrent to advancing genetic engineering, and some of these other tools that we need to feed the world. But there's there's room for people doing all sorts of things to contribute to modern agriculture. Like you said, we're getting close to our time together. But I wanted to provide an opportunity for you to talk about something that didn't come up in this hour or you've had together is there anything else you'd like to bring up here? Unknown Speaker 48:21 Jim: well I'm gonna flip the tables on you a little bit and ask you what we can expect from plan topia, moving forward, what are some of your ideas for evolving this podcast? Speaker 2 48:31 Matt: As you're aware of and maybe the listeners aren't, is that we have a committee that helps decide speakers and that reduces bias in selecting speakers and ensures that we have a real inclusive list of people to interview and talk about. What I'd like to do over my time here is to see not only integration of second language interviews, I thought, if we can have some guests hosts where English isn't their primary language, they can help to interview someone else whose primary language is not English, whether it be in Spanish or French, even having a portion may be asking the same questions in English and Spanish, so that we could reach a broader audience. Another thing that I would like to see is maybe bringing one of the episodes into the lab, or partially into the field to interview someone. As research is happening. Those sound effects and things we hear on NPR when they're in the field, interviewing people, I think it's nice to go visit people and see what they do in their own labs. It's nice to hear them talk about it, but it's another thing to see it. So I'd like to have at least one episode from the field or from the lab. There's some challenges there with audio. But I think we can make that work and just trying to fill in the gaps of the types of positions and perspectives that maybe weren't covered in the first 64 episodes. Just because there's A diverse group of plant pathologists, I think you've done a great job capturing different people at different career stages in different industry and government. But we want to see more of that. For now, that's it. But certainly open to suggestions too. As we move forward, we'll probably provide some kind of link for people to make suggestions, although we do have a committee that kind of goes through these names and tries to maximize our footprint across our profession. So that's a little bit about what I'm thinking. Unknown Speaker 50:30 Jim: But that's exciting. I can't wait to see how this continues to evolve. And again, thank you so much for picking up the mantle on this. Speaker 2 50:37 Matt: Yeah, the thanks again for joining us today. It's nice to have you on the other side of the microphone. And I hope you'll listen in as we move forward. Certainly, I'll be reaching out to ask for advice when I get to those challenging interview questions. But thanks so much. Unknown Speaker 50:51 Jim: I have to say it is a lot more nerve wracking to be on the side of the desk. Speaker 2 50:57 We've just heard from Dr. Jim Bradeen, former Plantopia host, Professor and Vice President of Colorado State University's for campus. I'm Matt Kasson host of Plantopia. Thanks for listening.