[Show Intro]

00:27.49
Jala
Hello world and welcome to Jala-chan's Place. I'm your host Jala Prendes (she/her) and today I'm joined by Dennis (he/him), Ben (he/him) and Matt (they/them)! Oh my god I'm so excited. Yay! We've got a repeat person Dennis.

00:47.29
Jala
You were here when I was doing the interview all about your stuff that was very cool I know it's been a long time all at least on this show.

00:55.69
Dennis
Yeah, it's a bit been too long in this place in other places honestly I would like a little bit more of a breather please so just make sure it's at least two more weeks until you're on The Level again I'm just kidding it. Yeah.

01:08.83
Jala
That's okay I'm too busy anyway, it's fine I've got other stuff planned you know? Yes, so ah, as listeners just heard Dennis is on The Level with me which is a duckfeed.tv production. It's at thelevelpodcast.com.

01:11.36
Ben
Coming in swingin' here.

01:26.42
Jala
Also Ben who is the first time here. Ah Ben is also co-host on that show. So yeah, ah in the green room I had the realization I'm like wow I've been on that show and I've known these folks for 10 years crap so it's been yeah, it's been a minute.

01:46.20
Jala
And Matt! Matt is a new friend. Yay yes, shiny and new very shiny, very new, very cool. So yeah Matt is in the poddisphere. Um, we know each other through associations of the pod people.

01:47.69
Matt
Hello I am in fact, new, Shiny and new.

02:04.91
Jala
And yes Matt does many many things including the "Fun" and Games Podcast among other things such as Screen Snark and other podcasts and other projects I'll let you explain all of that when we get there. But first Matt how are you doing.

02:23.36
Matt
I'm okay I am exhausted I feel like I live in a constant state of tired. Ah, but that's just kind of life. But other than that I'm doing great.

02:33.90
Jala
Hooray! Exhausted but still waving a little flag flattened on the ground I Love it. So yeah, how about you Ben.

02:39.59
Ben
Um, I'm doing all right I'm excited to talk about this game. Ah I was happy to get to play it ah in preparation for this.

02:50.14
Jala
Um, I know like we it Portal is like okay, everybody on The Level has their certain games that they always bring up and Portal is one of yours that you always talk about so you know, um, you're never going to get me on a podcast about Rocket League. But something like a Portal though I was just like a first person I thought of was you so so I was like oh I got to do Portal. Oh I got to tell Ben I need him on the show. So that's that's how that happened and then Ben's like I'm recruiting Dennis because Dennis just played it for the first time.

03:23.87
Dennis
I mean yeah, there there are no coincidences I think Portal 2 is on sale for two bucks um in the latest Steam sale and I had just missed it. You know I played like the first five minutes of it hot on the tail of the original Portal. And then just I don't know how I wandered away from it but came back at just the right time and I'm so glad that Ben roped me in.

03:48.58
Jala
Yeah, so um, while we're talking about the history. Everybody sad with this game I don't know Ben you've known it since forever. Did you play it like when it first came out.

03:56.78
Ben
Yeah I did um I think it came out just on pc for its original launch. It wasn't on any consoles and so I as always I had like a toaster pc um, but I had 2 different friends who let me play it on their computers when I was hanging out with them so I was able to beat it. While I was being impolite and like ignoring hanging out with friends. Um, but yeah it it was an amazing game. It was amazing experience and I still kind of hold it in high regard as being like almost a perfect game portal one? yeah. And so I did that in college and then portal two since I launched with consoles I got in immediately when it came out and just breed through it and that was my like last year in college. So I strongly associate those games with being in college and living on my own.

04:39.16
Jala
That's cool and Matt like when did you play this game for the first time.

04:43.10
Matt
So I actually had played ah some of Portal for the first time when the Orange Box came out from those aren't familiar the Orange Box was like a collection of Halflife which I've still never played even though it was in that collection, Team Fortress 2 and Portal. Um, and I bought it just to play team fortress 2 on xbox 3 60 with all my friends. Ah and I played a little bit of portal. It didn't really hook me then and then around it's probably sometime around when the sequel is either announced or coming out. It's hard to remember exactly when I was like oh you know I should probably play this I've never really played it I've heard great things and. I popped it in in like 1 sitting pretty much I played through the entire game and was like this is amazing I love this and then of course got portal to the date came out and played through that as well. Um I replayed portal one for this podcast because it's a breezy experience and I still think to this day a perfect game just about. Um I didn't re play portal two but I did refresh myself on it watch the ending watch some of the puzzles just to remember how it worked um, but yeah I've I've been a fan of Val for a long time. Ah I say knowing the irony and not having ever played any of the parts of their most seminal series halflife which I which I own. All of in many places. Um I recently rebought it on pc ah in the most recent steam sale and I do plan on playing it I actually have it installed on my steam deck. The first one. So I do plan on playing it at some point but I'm inundated with my backlog as most people are these days. But yeah I loved I love the portal franchise. Also I'm a music nerd and we'll get to this but the creator of both songs for both portal games is one of my favorite artists and so like that also led me to the series. Um, because I like his music and so we'll get more into that in a bit. But yeah, so that's kind of my brief history.

06:28.34
Ben
I was going to say when valve announces halflife 3 then you can play halflife one and 2 and then catch up then yeah.

06:32.90
Matt
Exactly that's how it'll work exactly yeah that that that definite game that's eventually coming out half life 3

06:41.14
Jala
That's right, Krusty's coming Krusty's coming yeah so um, I've recently mentioned this on The Level. But for volks who are not listeners of that show. Um, it's kind of weird I was given this game by my sister a very like when I first got on Steam. I want to say it was like 2000. Whatever like pretty close to when it first came out um, and um, when she gave it to me. She was like yeah she was trying to explain to me in words what this game is and how you play it and um, it must have been around the time that portal two came out because she's like yeah the sequel. You know and in the sequel there's this and I'm like does it have co-op because at that point I only had steam to co-op with her and she's like oh yeah, it's got co-op you play these robots and I'm like she's trying to explain and I'm just like not interested at all and I never looked at anything about the game until. Sometime later when I was like you know god and everybody keeps on talking about this game I should probably play this game and um, you know it was like a year or 2 after that that I finally did play it and then I was like oh this is really cool. No matter everybody thinks this is such a cool game and um, then from there. I became one of those people who's like let's co-op portal but the big downfall of that is if the people have never played portal before they don't know what's going on so you know then it's like no but you have to play the first one but they want to co-op with me. They don't want to go play a solo experience. Then it was this kind of catch 22 but Ben had the right idea because Ben you have like sherpid people into playing this game. It is my understanding for like years. You just find new people who haven't played it and get them to play it like so you know while you're hanging out on the couch.

08:24.95
Ben
This is one of those games I think The Witness is another big one where yes I will sit people down and be like you need to play this and then we'll just watch them play it and reawaken my teacher instincts and just watch people problem solve.

08:38.21
Dennis
I'm just now making the connection between Wheatley's not to spoil things but Wheatley's itch and Ben this is a real life Wheatley.

08:45.35
Ben
Um, yeah, it it is the closest experience to experiencing it for the first time again I think.

08:55.84
Matt
Yeah I mean there's something great about like a tight 3 hour experience ish and like being able to just sit with people and watch them play it. It's like watching a movie together almost you know and so like this definitely fits that bill another game I've done that with his journey when I find people and I've only played journey for the first time very recently did it on stream complete the whole thing from tail one end to the other and then weeped in front of my viewers at the end of it but like that's another one of those that like now whenever someone hasn't played him like oh well, let's just hang out you play it I'll just watch and then it's great I Love those experiences they're some of my favorite in gaming.

09:29.55
Jala
Yeah, and I will say we are totally channeling Level energy for real because this is like the longest the banter at the beginning of my show has ever been and it's because we always do yeah like 15 minutes of banter on that show. 

09:40.19
Dennis
Ah, you you knew what you signed up for.

09:49.66
Jala
Anyway dear listeners we are talking about if you have not figured it out from the title of the episode or all the stuff we've been talking about portal as an ip that means portal one and portal 2 and such so ah, that is very exciting to me I am jazzed about talking about this game. Um I will say one more little. Story before I toss it to everybody to introduce other things that you guys do so um once upon a time and this must have been seven or eight years ago Jenny Palladna friend of duck feed network network um ended up coming to me and saying hey. <unk>lla I want to do a new podcast that's called boob sliders and it's going to be about female characters in video games I'm going to record about Chell and GLaDOS in portal and I would love for you to be on this pilot episode and I said great and then she and I and another person sat down and recorded the episode. As usual rule I did all of my research I came to the show I was the only one that researched anything and then um, you know, ah that that went. However it was going to go I still feel like I I came and represented a lot of interesting information. But then the rest of it's like the other 2 going? Yeah and then. That show never happened. It never got released and so like I don't know that audio is just lost in limbo somewhere. So this is like seven or eight years later on my own show I decided I'm going to dig in and actually talk about it this time for real. So.

11:20.70
Jala
That is the secret origins of why portal is popping up on this show which is exciting. Yeah so I get to actually sink in for real now. So all right.

11:34.13
Jala
Everybody I want to know all the stuff that you do for our dear listeners and we will first toss to Matt who has so many things to say.

11:42.38
Matt
I will do the short short version otherwise half the podcast will just be me talking about all the stuff I work on. Um so I guess most prevalently I am a podcaster ah podcast editor producer and host. Um I host three different podcasts too about video games which will be relevant to this episode Although I think all the shows will be relevant to your listeners. Um, one show is called "Fun" and Games. It is a broad discussion podcast about gaming that I do with my co-host Geoff Moonen we have guests on. We talk to indie developers. You talk to composers. We talk about retrospectives a certain franchises or video game consoles. Talk about different stigmas and stereotypes within the games industry all sorts of different things. We try to take a positive look on gaming. Um but still will talk about the darker side of gaming and of the culture and then within that feed. There's also a shorter form series called Side Quests. Ah, fans of this show might be familiar that Jala just did an episode on Azure Dreams in that feed. Um the premise of Side Quests is a different host every episode talks about a game they love and why they love it. We try and keep it to 5 to 20 minutes and it's just a gush fest about a game you love and whatever stories you want to tell about it. Um, inspired by the. Know a shock to everyone insane amount of a negativity about gaming online, especially most capital g gamers who just want to complain and throw stones and so this show is kind of a response to that this idea that we can share in the joy of gaming and I'm so grateful that Jala did an episode and I am already excited for Jala to do another one. Um.

13:12.11
Matt
To pick up the pace a bit I also do a bio a retrospective podcast called Reignite. The first 4 seasons were about Mass Effect now. The new season is about Dragon Age or we're going through the dragon age franchise ah through the perspective of me and my co-host Frankie Bradley lestrange making decisions as if we were the characters and then discussing why we made those choices. And also discussing how well these games have aged as well as their choices. Um the last podcast I host is called Screen Snark ah, which is a Tv and movie podcast where me and my co-host and guests talk about the most recent thing we've watched and then we banter and interview our guest you may say. But during a strike Matt how can you do a show about tv and movies that's breaking the strike worlds and you would be right and so instead currently we are doing nonstruck material like video games ah documentaries books ah Youtube shows to stand in solidarity with all the striking workers of the wga a and sa astra. Um. And I also edit for the game and former show which is a long run impact podcast for the long running publication I that their audio version of the show but not the video version and I think that's everything I'm also a deejay and sometimes I stream all right I'm done too much.

14:20.85
Jala
See so like I said y'all like ah Matt Matt is the person who wears many many hats. Ah, which is is a familiar concept for folks who know enough about what I do and like some of my other guests such as.

14:34.76
Jala
Our lovely return guest all the time Marcus! Marcus is another one of those very busy people who does a million things. So yes, ah definitely check all of those out we will have links in the show notes as always to all of these wonderful things. Ben, do you want to tell people about The Level?

14:50.72
Ben
Sure I feel comparatively very inadequate now. 

14:56.38
Matt
Please don't I do too much. It's really not a good thing trust me.

15:00.15
Jala
So it's horizontal versus vertical, Ben. So like you're going in one direction deeply right? 

15:05.42
Ben
That's true. Yeah, it's been we have a time capsule slash podcast that we do called The Level where we just talk about whatever video games were playing at the time. 

15:16.41
Ben
I think I personally I think the dual function of it now is you can get listened to an episode like 6 or seven years ago and a listen to yourself sound way younger and then b listen to whatever current events kind of seep into the episode and that's kind of like a fun side benefit. But yeah.

15:31.00
Jala
Um, and everybody but me in that show are like old college buddies.

15:36.18
Ben
Yeah, the original ah ah, iteration of it was a college radio show where we would play music and then talk about video games in between songs.

15:41.44
Jala
Um, yeah, yeah, and then somehow I manifested myself onto the show and here we are today.

15:50.57
Jala
So yeah, um, Ben is one of the staples of that show. Um other than Kole the main primary host who is required for the actual recording Ben is probably the most stable. Always there person on the show week.

16:04.46
Ben
Stable in terms of showing up.

16:05.80
Dennis
Stable in terms of attendance. Not lets let's not comment on mental state I was going to say Ben if if you could include on your your rap sheet sherpa-ing people through games.

16:08.99
Jala
Yeah, he's he's totally unstable otherwise because he is after all Wheatley right? So anyway.

16:24.37
Dennis
I Think you would you would take up half the show So never short yourself on on how much stuff you're doing. It's just ah, just the the individual nature of it.

16:32.34
Jala
Yes, yes, absolutely so yes, Dennis is also on the level. So Dennis you can just talk about deck of wonder stuff because we already covered the level. So yay.

16:42.66
Dennis
Yeah I do The Level primarily as a way to hang out with Ben and Jala at all. Um, and I also made a game called Deck of Wonders a physical game. Not a video game. It is a solo legacy tactical card game.

17:00.24
Dennis
Um, so it captures the feel of games like Hearthstone or Magic the Gathering or any of those deck builder card battle or games. But it's solitaire. It's you versus a villain instead of you versus another player. Um, and it's got amazing art done by Lauren a brown. Um, and we have a ton of works by her name over 50 pieces of art by her. Um, and it is now available on Amazon. So if if you like those kinds of games that I mentioned if you want something that can be.

17:34.21
Dennis
Set up played and torn down and in 15 minutes fits in your pocket but still feels like it's got kind of ah an evolving story evolving mechanics some strategic depth to it a deck of wonders is your jam.

17:45.49
Jala
Yeah, and you've also got like narration ah like story narration stuff on forteller so that's also available and I will say again. Um you were on my show previously on your Deck of Wonders Furia games.


18:01.18
Jala
So if you want to hear all about the creation of that game in detail. You can either listen to the entire saga of The Level when Dennis has been talking about it there or you can just listen to this yeah or you can just listen to this one. Nice snappy little episode that we did last year and it'll have all the fun cool details in there.

18:10.57
Dennis
Ah, that's a real long form.

18:21.16
Jala
Um, but yeah I am definitely not a card per card card game individual and I definitely when I got my copy and I sat down to play it I was definitely texting Dennis who was very patient with me I'm like but Dennis what do I do with this thing and you're like.

18:34.85
Dennis
It was a trip y'all? yeah.

18:39.34
Jala
It's in the rule book and I'm like no this part isn't in the rule book. Yeah so.

18:42.11
Dennis
And now I mean anyone listening knows this but Jala is the like consummate edge case tester like she will find the walls of whatever you're trying to do.

18:50.39
Jala
Yes, yes, yes I am I'm a very organized chaos elemental. So so yes, and as for me I want to remind everybody about our Kofi! You can sport this show by going to ko-fi.com/fireheartmedia and either dropping us a one time donation or subscribing yes, coffee has patron tiers just like Patreon and there's extra stuff for subscribers any and all donations are given a shout out on the show and are greatly appreciated it and. You can also rate and review us on your podcasting platform of choice. It gives me warm fuzzies every single time I see one and it's been a little bit since the last time I got a review. So if you want to go drop a review or a rating that would be wonderful. Thank you yay now we can talk about portal. So.

19:48.55
Jala
Yay! So what is Portal? Portal is a first person puzzle platforming video game series by Valve. Portal came out in 2007, Portal 2 came out in 2011. It also has a whole bunch of different spinoffs that we're not going to like list. Every single thing. But there's like ah a board game a comic um a digital book an ar game that came out at some point different vr incarnations there is bridge constructor portal that came out in 17 which is a licensed use of the portal ip in the bridge constructor game. A whole bunch of other stuff. There's community made games minds levels. You name it also Aperture desk job from 2022 which is a short game that uses um you know like the portal ip to show off the steam de features and it's very cute and small. So. There's that. Um, and yeah as of twenty twenty three Jj Abrams confirmed the portal movie adaptation initially announced in 2016 was still in production and was on the slate for Warner Brothers in 2023 2024 of course with the strikes and everything probably not 2023 at all going to be 2024 but whatever, um, so yeah, that's still in the works that they will eventually do some kind of movie adaptation as well. Um, kind of.

21:08.80
Dennis
Man this is a whole nother podcast but given given the conversations about feminism we're about to have do we want JJ Abrams at the helm of that will.

21:17.58
Matt
Probably not.

21:19.64
Jala
I know right? I know so I don't know man. Um, it's it's kind of all up in the air I mean just because it's supposedly on the production slate doesn't mean much I mean like they announced it in 2 16 and nothing much has happened. So. You know it might just be stuck in development health forever who knows but um, have any of you folks had any experience with some of these spinoff things I mean like I looked over the comic and ah the final hours of portal two I definitely looked at that as well. The digital book. But um, a lot of these other ones I have not. Had any experience with.

21:59.14
Ben
I have experienced a few of these I Also read the comic and prep for this. Um I've played both the fanmade games I Would highly recommend Portal Reloaded like I think that that's that could stand up as like a portal 3 the narratives a little bit weaker than the valve game but the puzzles are there. Um, Portal Stories Mel is just okay in my opinion. But yeah.

22:20.97
Matt
Yeah I've read the comic as well. I think I read it when he came out and then I've I've ah since reread it. Um, even though I have a steam deck and I've played a lot of games on it I have yet to play Aperture desk job. It is installed. Um I should play it because I've I have heard that it's very cute and a fun little game. And I loved the version of that on the ps 5 which was a um, a riff on a mascot character that they had had for a vr game. They made this cool little 5 hour experience when you got a ps five. It. It came downloaded and those kinds of like catered experiences for consoles are always kind of fun so I need to get back to it. Um. Heard I remember hearing about the portal movie. Ah back in 2016 I had no idea it was still short of in production that's wild to me.

23:01.42
Jala
Yeah I definitely was like whatever happened to that movie thing and I was googling around just to make sure that I had something in the notes about that because I was like I remember hearing about that I don't remember if anything actually occurred. Oh no, nothing did occur. Oh but it's still theoretically a thing. Okay, so we'll see about that. But um, Dennis did you have any experience with any of these.

23:25.51
Dennis
Yeah, so I actually discovered portal through the arg that was associated with it my then roommate still co-host David Moneysmith.

23:38.59
Dennis
Was playing it I guess you know to the extent that you play in our arg he was he was poking around the Aperture website which had all these little Easter eggs and hints at things that were in the game etc. And and so I was like oh what's that and he kind of started explaining to Me. Or they started explaining to me what what was going on and that that was the first that I'd heard of portal.

24:01.40
Jala
Yeah, yeah, that's pretty cool and I will say about Aperture Desk Job that I played that when I first got my steam deck. It was not the first thing I actually booted up but it was pretty close in there and it was just. It It felt very nice to go back to this world and and have this kind of tone and everything with you know, the kind of nonsense that goes on in Aperture labs you know like it still has the same feel of portal even though it's been so many years since. And you know even though GLaDOSs is not in that one. But um, yeah, it was still a very fun experience very short 20 minutes maybe 30 minutes something like that. So definitely worth taking the time to just kind of sit down and in futs with it. Especially if you are nostalgic and feeling love for portal. So um, that that might also be part of the reason why this episode happened because I did play the Aperture desk job thing just a couple of months ago so I've been thinking about portal. So I don't know. But yeah.

25:07.76
Dennis
Doesn't doesn't take much to get the juices flowing when the idea is as cool as Portal's is.

25:11.10
Jala
Oh for sure I mean like I've been feeling like I've been overdue for a full play of the single single player mode for a while because I've gone through the co-op many different times or at least partially gone through the co-op many different times so you know like it is. Been far fewer times that I've actually gone through to do the single player mode. So um, yeah, it was surprising to me that with as many years have passed since the first time I did play all the way through how much of it I still retained.

25:46.84
Jala
And even if I didn't remember the solutions to the puzzles or anything like as soon as it did hit me I'm like oh wait now I know and I know the sequence because I unlock this one memory of this one part. So very cool. So yeah.

26:03.70
Jala
Ah, both last year and this year writers from the portal team have expressed their desire to work on a portal 3 but as you see across a bunch of different media outlets if you google it um in April of this year Eric Wolfpall admitted that the game probably won't ever be made because of valve's small size and flat structure. They just don't have the manpower and the dedication to have a team split off to do that when they are focused so much on steam. So unfortunately. That's where their money's being made. So even if they make a game. It's not going to make as much money as steam does so they're just not going to do it more or less. So.

26:42.72
Ben
Yeah, and it's kind of interesting. You can see this kind of going ahead. But you can kind of see that reflected in the games where it's like portal one was kind of a side project that some of these people I got hired worked on but then the entire company seemed to work on portal 2 and you kind of see the difference in the scope.

26:59.98
Dennis
Yeah, one one could argue that steam is a portal for games to your pc and so truly the real portal 3 is steam.

27:09.51
Jala
Um, you know it wouldn't be like a true experience with you 2 from The Level if somebody didn't try to make me face palm.

27:22.48
Dennis
Um, yeah I miss that my intro I am a dad of of 3 kiddos and the dad humor definitely seeps out to be. Yeah.

27:28.25
Jala
Doth overflow. Yes, ah so yeah, um, Ben has already talked a little bit about you know it was a side project for some people that got hired. Let's talk about the origins of this game like where the hell did it come from in the first place. A very very brief history of of. What happened the concept of portal came from narbacular drop a student project from the Digipin Institute of technology and the game included the aspects of placing portals on any flat surfaces and using them to maneuver around levels valves employees. Who were attending a digipend career fair. Saw the game and shortly offered the entire team jobs at valve to help expand on the ah di idea and like there is a whole history on the wiki which I will leave a link in the notes if you really want to dig into all of that. Um I don't know how familiar anybody else is. On the show right now with the history is is there anything particularly cool about that that you all know little nuggets. Um.

28:29.14
Ben
I Know that they do some of the commentary on the portal one commentary playthrough and so that's just kind of cool to hear you know the people who actually made like the game from its initial incarnation talking about it. Um, yeah, yeah.

28:37.96
Jala
Oh that's really cool I've never gone through the commentary play.

28:43.47
Ben
Highly recommend. Yeah on both games. It's It's really interesting the decisions that they make behind the scenes.

28:50.55
Jala
That's really cool, very cool. So ah, this game. Let's let's talk about what the the narrative is of this game so Chell is a test subject for Aperture Science Labs and she is running through tests. By the artificial intelligence which operates the facility named GLaDOS using the Aperture science handheld portal device a a portal gun a device that can create interspatial portals between 2 flat planes Chell attempts to solve puzzle chambers of increasing difficulty. And there are some links to half -life including multiple mentions of black mesa and portal takes place between half -life 1 and 2 and portal 2 takes place a long time after portal we don't know how long. And portal 2 sees Chell revisiting Aperture sometime after the events of the first game and seeing the effects of the events of the first game. So like that's your spoiler free summary. We will get into more detail later but we are keeping it right at the front spoiler free until we tell you there's a wall. So. Any thoughts about just like the conceit of the setup here.

30:03.53
Dennis
Maybe a go ahead. It might be worth noting that given that the first game was such kind of a a small experience and just just kind of this little passion project. A lot of the lore and story was kind of. Bolted on after the fact.

30:23.29
Ben
Yeah, okay I I think one of the striking things about portal 1 is like how little you know you just wake up in a room and you have no information of like how you got there. What context is and you're. You're kind of drip-fed like information about the larger world like but you're still not given a huge picture even by the end of the game.

30:43.43
Jala
And what I like about that is the fact that you aren't an amnes act. Thank God I Am you're an amnes act. But in this one, you just don't talk and you don't You're not provided any information so you have the same lack of information. Why all more games do this.

31:02.28
Dennis
It's you're not Amnesiac nobody knows anything.

31:04.87
Jala
Yeah, nobody knows anything but ah also can we sit for a second with like how lucky was the team to have Ellen McLain as GLaDOS's voice actress.

31:15.91
Ben
Yeah I mean I think part of it was an intentional choice because they needed someone who could sing and she was like operatically trained but I you know it's like given all the conditions of what they needed from the voice actor I'm curious like how many options they had with those conditions. You know.

31:33.00
Matt
Which she's also married to a famous voice actor who voiced a ton of characters in the valve world and so I think that's also a connecting piece. Um, but yeah I mean right? exactly totally. But like.

31:41.35
Dennis
It's always nepotism.

31:47.30
Matt
Also Ellen Mclain like I mean she's done a few other things like she is the voice of the announcer and team fortress to um, who's like giving you quests and telling you what to do in the mission maps. Um, so she's also worked with valve for a while but like I think it's really interesting that like since this she's done a few things but mostly teaches voice acting now.

32:06.80
Matt
And like works at events and stuff and like I think it's pretty cool that like she has these iconic roles and then I mean either by choice or by the nature of the business or who knows is still like teaching the art of this work which you know is important to be taught.

32:18.92
Jala
Right? right? So this game is limited in number of characters in part because this first game was this little side project in the first game. It's just Chell and GLaDOS. That's it Chell and GLaDOS and then there's this off so off stage.

32:36.68
Jala
Character called the Rat man that you aren't ever given the name of and you just see evidence that he's been there just you know and.

32:45.47
Dennis
Jala I am I am deeply offended that you have left out an entire character from the first game I I cannot believe that the companion cube is not considered a character in your mind.

32:50.00
Ben
Companion gap.

32:51.15
Matt
Very rude I think you would have hurt the Companion Cube's feelings personally.

33:02.20
Jala
Yes, I probably have. It's my fault please Chastise me some more.

33:09.64
Dennis
Oh no, no, there will be more time for that later.

33:13.46
Jala
Right? right? we will. We will go into companion cube in ah at a later point. But yeah, there's there's a limited number of characters in the first game and the only speaking character is GLaDOS this. The only voice you have in the entire game. So ah GLaDOS. Ah, how would y'all Express GLaDOS in the first game which is a little.

33:33.28
Jala
But different from like at least the first half of the first game. She's a little bit different than she gets like increasingly aggressive as it goes on but like what are your impressions of her personality.

33:46.00
Ben
It's kind of like if how from 2001 space odyssey was like an overbearing parent who is like always disappointed in you and like yeah.

33:52.84
Matt
Yeah, GLaDOS has this intensity but like is always kind of talking down to you is convinced that she knows more than you no matter what you do um and is also always convinced that you will never figure it out of the disappointing parent comparison I think is a very good one um and not one unfamiliar but that's a different story. Ah, but but like and also is just kind of very um, full of themselves has this concededness high mindedness to them.

34:21.79
Jala
Right? right? And that's because GLaDOS the ai that runs these tests in this lab also has 100% control of the lab so she is essentially god in the space that is Aperture so she really.

34:39.46
Jala
Knows this in the first game. Especially so.

34:42.91
Ben
And I think I think they established like really early on that she's untrustworthy because like in the first few chambers. She'll openly lie to you and like tell you that she's lying to you later? Um, and so it kind of planned like season. Yes, yep.

34:54.13
Dennis
Um, doesn't she say one of the early tests is impossible or something like that.

34:57.62
Ben
And then she says she's not going to monitor you for a test and then also says that that was a lie.

35:00.37
Jala
So does she does she start taunting you about your parents in the first one I can't remember if that was that's only in the second one. Okay, like yeah, right, right? cool.

35:07.22
Ben
That's in the second one she she saves the personal attacks for after spoilers that we won't talk about? yeah.

35:08.33
Matt
That's in this crack of one. Yeah.

35:12.64
Dennis
Yeah, well and and it does It's a very interesting transition that she starts out as kind of just the the personification of the banality of corporate evil right? like it's all corporatetees and kind of this vague talking down to you. And then over the course of the first game and especially the second it gets increasingly more personal.

35:37.53
Jala
Yeah, and that's that's definitely a good point because of course I was primed to think about this in terms of the ah.

35:48.92
Jala
Boob Sliders format right? of talking about the the significance of the female characters themselves but that is a very good point that the language that is being presented to you and the format and you know just how everything is supposed to work is so sequential and so.

36:07.73
Jala
Corporate so that's that's a very good word. There. But yeah in the second game. There's only the addition of character named Wheatley which is a personality core and cave johnson who was the creator and Ceo of Aperture as well as Caroline a personal assistant to cave Johnson. Um. Then there are also 2 robots but in the single player mode. You don't see them. Those are the robots that ah are in the co-op so you you don't play as Chell in the co-op you play 2 robots at the end. Yes, yeah yeah.

36:41.00
Matt
You do see them I mean at some point. Yeah, that spoiler free You see them at the end. But yeah, you don't ah actually really engage with them at all until the multiplayer.

36:49.10
Jala
Yeah, yeah, correct. So yeah, that's the the kind of overview of like what the the presented story is I don't know it says it's between half life one and half life two. So what kind of a world. Are we talking about here.

37:07.61
Ben
That's the thing is like you don't really get a good gauge on what's happening outside of the facility that you're locked in especially in portal one you get 1 shot at the outside and I think portal two is the exact same way. Actually you get 1 shot at the outside looking at the sky and so you don't really see a lot.

37:23.60
Jala
Yeah, and that's that's what kind of we'll we'll get there but like that's how it it affected how I thought of the way that the games end both of them ah was because like you had no idea what was going on outside.

37:40.24
Jala
So ah, but yeah, we will get there I think we should go ahead and kind of slide into talking about basic gameplay. Not spoilery gameplay but you know basics of how this work and Ben I'm going to throw it to you because you are all about this. Yes I'm you you are so prepared. You have.

37:51.71
Ben
Oh my goodness I was not prepared sure I I've been preparing this entire my Charlie for this. So.

37:57.50
Jala
Like so many pages of notes in front of you.

37:58.22
Dennis
Then I've never tried portal before and I don't I don't know if it's my kind of game mechanically could you tell me a little about it.

38:07.60
Ben
So the gameplay and portal ah basically without not spoiling anything is portal. 1 is just a tutorial for how to play the end of the game essentially and so it is a very well play tested. Ah.

38:23.53
Ben
Game that will slowly teach you what you can do with a portal and maybe some boxes and some buttons along the way. Um, and the first game. It's kind of bare bones. Um, the only mechanics that you have you have boxes you have buttons you have these little bulbs of light that can kill you if it if they hit you. You have water that you drown in very easily if you fall into it. Um, and then you have like a few like ah ah, platforms that move around like on these light beam tracks that can be activated so it's pretty simple and portal and mostly that's due to the fact that since no one had. Played this before and had no idea of like the the physics of this a lot of time is just ramping up what you can do with 2 portals and what you can do with interacting with the physics of that. Um.

39:05.56
Jala
Yeah, and what's crucial to know is that like those play testers when they were first trying this game out. They had no idea what to do when they had 2 portals so they took it away and they only leave you for half of the first game with 1 portal to place. And they give you half the solution by placing the second portal for you. So all you have to do is figure out what to do with your 1 portal in order to solve each test chamber.

39:33.85
Jala
So and yes and the boxes and the buttons and all the other crap as well. But like you only have to worry about the placement of 1 portal and that's just because they want to make sure that you get it. Um, you know, get the concept of portals and what they want you to do with this. Over the course of so many different test chambers along the way. So there's only like 20 but that there's only like 20 test chambers in the first game 22 something like that. Um.

40:04.21
Jala
So it's actually a pretty short game like I went on Youtube and looked it up and if you know the answers to all of the puzzles you can get through it in like 45 minutes just playing through.

40:12.75
Matt
I will I will say though as someone came back to it many years later like I thought that it was like 80% the play test and then 20% the the other stuff without spoiling. It's written the final exam.

40:27.21
Dennis
The final exam.

40:31.61
Matt
It's really fifty fifty like it like half the game the first hour and a half is teaching you everything within the facility and then spoiler happens and like that's the other half of the game because when I was playing that section most recently I was like ha like I must be getting new the because I remember you know. The the ending of the game and and the final battle and everything and so like I was like I must be getting of that soon right? and it kept taking longer and longer. It's like oh no, actually this is more 50 s 50 split which is kind of brilliant because like ah all of you have said before like the first half of the game is a tutorial for actually playing the game. The second half is like.

41:06.92
Matt
I Think kind of actually what they wanted you to be doing but they needed to ramp up slower to it so you would actually know how to figure that stuff out.

41:16.90
Ben
I guess going on ah to portal 2 They add a whole bunch of new elements on top of that. Ah to something I was already packed filled with a lot of mechanics. Um, they add lasers which sounds weird to say um they add they add light bridges.

41:34.75
Ben
They add. Ah these plates that'll like shoot you off so you have like instant speed which is a sweet way to play around with portals. Um, they add cubes that can point the lasers around and then they add ah safety cubes which are spheres essentially um. And then on top of that they added this mechanic of painting. Um, so similar to how the portal was made from a small indie game. There is another indie game that was made I'm not sure if it was in-house or out of it and I forget what the name of it is they say it throughout the commentary but it was this ah like multiplayer like painting game. Similar Maybe not platoon, but it was it had the same features that they use in Portal. Um, they they incorporated that into Portal. So Basically you can paint surfaces and then those will have effects like speeding you up or bouncing or letting you put portals on surfaces that you otherwise wouldn't be able to um and they had bombs.

42:24.80
Jala
Yeah, yeah, and they they have they have bombs. They have tractor beams and they also have light bridges. So like there's a lot of different stuff that they add in portal to but the important thing to note is like it has to give you the ramp up on how to think with portals.

42:43.72
Jala
Portal One is just to teach you how to play portal. That's all it is and then Portal two is where they really get to play with it and so like you know if you go through and you play portal and you're like that was pretty good. You know, but you're not like super jazzed about it.

42:59.83
Jala
I don't know why you wouldn't be but if you are somehow kind of loopwarm at the end of portal I promise you portal 2 gives you a lot more verbs. It gives you a lot more puzzles to figure out. It gives you a lot more in terms of storyline and things. So like there's a lot more moving parts. Literally and figuratively in the second game and it's really essential that you play both.

43:21.85
Ben
Yeah I noticed playing the first game. It's like any puzzle that you have you can think like this isn't like a puzzle for puzzles sake. They are teaching you an explicit thing that you're going to need in it later whereas in pural two. There's plenty of rooms that are just like oh this is just celebrating all the things that you already know. And here's just like a puzzle for puzzle's sake like enjoy.

43:40.16
Jala
Yeah, and again we mentioned it before but portal 2 also added that co-op campaign. So that's totally separate from the main story but you play as these two robots and galatys runs you through your paces on a whole series of different themed testings. So like. There's a chunk of however, many tests that only cover like feature prominently light bridges and light bridges are like the main thing that you have to deal with in that section of the co-op or so on and it ramps up and you know builds on itself until. It gets really complicated by the end of it because you have 2 people for portals and that's you know a lot more potentiality than you do in the single player. So. It's very cool.

44:28.71
Dennis
Yeah, circling back to a thought from earlier the the increase in difficulty in terms in terms of like only letting you have control of 1 portal to start and then you get control of 2 They do kind of the same thing with your options for where to place portals.

44:44.49
Dennis
So if you pay attention like at the beginning as they're ramping you up. There's really only a couple of walls where you can set down a portal whereas you know as you get later into the game you look around and you can pretty much put anything anywhere.

44:59.43
Ben
That's a good point.

45:02.14
Jala
Yeah, definitely and it's kind of anything anywhere but at the same time they do have areas that you cannot add portals to nor get gel to to make new surfaces. They do limit it to a certain degree because there's definitely been times where I was playing the later part of either portal game and going How do I do this part? Well the portal surface is over there So That's got to be something you know like without having big arrows pointing. You.

45:37.26
Jala
To hey you have to go over here. They are basically giving you big arrows pointing you you know into like what the next part of the sequence is in a lot of the areas not all of them but a lot of them.

45:49.64
Dennis
Yeah, they they go from? Um, you know, kind of mixing out the areas that you don't want to point place portals you know, making that not the material that can accept portals so you can stay focused to. Putting that you know nixing portals where you would want to place them and forcing you to you know that that becomes the puzzle later on like I can put I can put this portal anywhere except where I want to so got to work around that.

46:15.91
Jala
Yeah, and something I will say is that ah in the notes here we got something about dynamic music which I will admit I do not know because.

46:26.44
Jala
When I was playing I played it co-op so much that I turned the music down and so like I didn't I basically didn't hear music the entire time I was playing single player because I played the co-op in Portal two before I played the single player mode. So that music was turned down and I never heard it so somebody else tell me about the music man.

46:41.21
Ben
Um, so I'm not sure. Yeah I was the one who added the note and in portal to it I don't think they do it necessarily on every level but there's definitely some levels where they feature it where it's like um.

46:46.41
Jala
Yeah, tell me about the music or Ben or someone.

46:56.98
Ben
1 I can think of an example is there's one where it's like a 3 laser laser puzzle where you have 3 different laser receivers that you need to activate. Um, and so every time you activate one. There will be an add to the background music like a different like ah. What's it called like ah a round or something like that or it's like I don't know I'm not a music expert. So maybe Matt is this Um, but a different like music element will appear in the background and so once you've activated all 3 you kind of have like a completion of the like the theme musically. Um, and it's also. By where where it's activated at so the musical sound effect or whatever will be by where like the laser boxes and they do it in other cases for like whatever the puzzle is that it's not just lasers. But ah yeah, maybe Matt do you have anything to add on to that or.

47:41.62
Matt
Well I mean I don't I don't know what the musical term is. But yeah I mean I think the music in these games are actually quite minimalistic which is what's great about them I think the strongest music memories I have are the small radio strewn throughout portal 1 playing playing a jaunty version of.

47:59.76
Matt
Song from this game still alive written by Jonathan Colton sung by GLaDOS herself. Um, and so that's where a lot of music in the first game is from and then the final boss battle obviously against get GLaDOS I feel like that's not a spoiler like that's what this is culminating to ah. Is is also has a ton of music and it's kind of the same for the sequel I feel like there. There was a little more music and ambiance. But for the most part the most impactful musical moments were like the cresceos at the beginning and end of the the games. Um ah and the music's very good and then of course um, want you gone was the song Jonathan Colton did for the sequel also an incredible.

48:35.50
Matt
Track and if you've not heard the Jonathan Colton versions on his greatest hits. Um, you should because he has guest singers for them. The second game very famously sarahif of Tegan and Sarahra fame sings as GLaDOS in the second song in the sequels song I believe which is really neat. Um, but like.

48:52.80
Matt
It's funny because most of what I knew about portal before I played it was because I was a Jonathan Colton fan and I loved still alive and then I was like oh this is from that portal game I should finally play that and then like you know that kind of thing but ah yeah I I I am I don't really remember the dynamic music in the puzzles but it doesn't surprise me the way you're describing it like. That totally seems like something they would have done and I probably would have noticed at the time.

49:12.96
Ben
And another example I can think of is like when you're messing with like the blue gel like whenever you bounce off of it. There will be like this little science like sound effect that' will come up like it. Do do like that sort of thing like that's integrated too with like just you like moving around the level of Mike Murowski

49:31.48
Ben
I think the composer is Mike Muski I might be mispronouncing that. But I think he's the who at least did all the like sound effects I know it does the end score to like the boss battle in the end of portal 2 which I agree is like 1 of the most impactful ah parts of the game. Yeah.

49:45.12
Dennis
The score also functions as a low key hint system because it's dynamic that you know if you soar past something that's really important and the music picks up. You're like oh wait wait wait wait wait. What's going on here and and it can direct your attention in a very subtle way.

50:01.56
Matt
Yeah, be I think the biggest audio thing about the first 2 games is the sound design because there's actually another character in the first game that we didn't mention. Um there are turts throughout the game that like cock and they say soft things like hello.

50:16.21
Ben
Are you still there.

50:17.10
Matt
Where are you? It's very funny like when they can't like when you when they can't because they're laser targeted if they can't shoot you they just they softly wonder where you are but like that kind of stuff was more prevalent in 1 and then is of course in 2 like the sound design of like the sound the companion cube makes when it hits the ground like the sound design is so visceral for these games because. It's so pin perfect specific for those moments like I can hear in my head having played it recently the sound of a turt falling over because that's how you beat them is by knocking them over and then they they they die effectively? um and like those things are more memorable than the music to me except for some of the.

50:53.87
Matt
Ones we've mentioned because like the sound design is so keyed in like those radios like jall is reaction is because they're everywhere and like they they as you get closer. They get louder as you get further. They get quieter like it's ah it's really like the sound design is top notch in both games, especially the first one.

51:11.64
Jala
So I did want to ask you what else does um Jonathan Colton do musically like um you said that? um he makes other music what other music what type of music. 

51:26.80
Matt
It's mostly nerdy music. He's kind of got a folk rock sound. Um, but he's dabbled in some other stuff. He's done a lot of comedy music or like science themed music. He has a song called I'm your moon which I believe is about the um, it's either pluto being categorized as a moon. Yeah.

51:39.74
Ben
Is ah yeah, it pluto has a moon that's tidly locked with it so they face 1 another as they revolve around it. So it's like a love song about that I think.

51:42.53
Matt
It's pluto being categoriz as a moon and like feeling about it right? Yeah, um, but he's done tons of other stuff like he did ah a song about office workers becoming zombies and like writing a letter as if they as they were becoming zombies and like. Turning it into a song. Um, he's done a very famous cover of baby got back that turns into kind of like a soul light rock song. Um, that's been ripped off in some places that's very fun. Um, but yeah, he's he's in the nerd sphere along with a lot of nerd core rappers and like you know comedy musicians. He's kind of of that ilk.

52:20.39
Matt
Um, and has gotten his fame from that. He also is the band leader for a now I think ah ended npr show called ask me another which is like a trivia a fun trivia show and he was the band leader and played music and did musical games. Um and is kind of this like nerd comedy musician Ah persona.

52:35.62
Jala
Very cool, very cool I just wanted to ask that question because I know that both still alive and want you gone particularly want you gone are on my workout playlist and I listen to them a lot and like I will absolutely be in the middle of the gym. Heavy lifting and then just singing once you got once you gone. Ah while I'm doing it So you know like there's that and also my ringtone on my phone is the turrets going hello and and whatever and like talking to you.

53:08.48
Jala
So yeah, that's that's my ringtone on my phone not that I usually have my phone on sound but it's there. So but.

53:15.64
Dennis
I'll tell you what's a crime though is so I I finished portal to just a couple days before recording this and you know got the treat of the final song was like oh my God there's another one and you know loved it and then I woke up the next morning with the song from Portal one in my head.

53:32.11
Dennis
Don't know how that happened it is ah in terms of ranking the 2 man that first was just so catchy.

53:37.52
Ben
Still Alive in your head.

53:40.85
Jala
Right? Well what I really like about the second one is is because it's so tied to what my conclusions are about the ending of the second game. Um, which we'll get to so. Ah, just to wrap up this non spoilery part though I just want to touch on like some themes like what are some themes in this game. So Dennis you already mentioned like corporatization. Do you have any more to add on that as a theme.

54:09.95
Dennis
That's the one that I would add from from the list that we're looking at right now. So I'll let you go through the ones that that you identified yeah corporatization and like I said the banality of Corporate Evil is is probably the the big one that stood out to me.

54:23.00
Jala
Um, yeah, yeah, so ah, one of the first ones that I thought about was feminine assumption of the patriarchy and by that I mean like ah.

54:27.85
Dennis
Or you know one of the ones that stood out to me.

54:39.35
Jala
Ah, feminine characters or feminine people. Um complying with toxic masculinity and patriarchy and embodying it and inflicting it on others. This would be GLaDOS in this case. Also.

54:57.15
Jala
Isolation and loneliness for obvious reasons you are isolated and you know there's nobody else you know there's nobody else like GLaDOS there's nobody else like Chell there's nobody else like Wheatley they're all isolated even when they're all together in the same space.

55:16.48
Jala
So another one would be tech operating long past human operator death. So that would be like I particularly thought of a Ray Bradbury short story called there will come soft rains I will link a pdf of that if anybody is interested in reading that it is a very good short story. And then also at bracing embracing adversity not just facing it but taking it by the horns and just going you know so other stuff Ben I believe you added some of these.

55:48.39
Ben
Yeah, yeah, and the first game in particular the idea of like kind of surveillance paranoia ah paranoia and imprisonment in particular. Um both ah, you know the Chell's character designed is looks like a prisoner uniform and it wasn't intentionally designed that way. Um, and then a kind of interesting theme those both you know glad of sanChell are imprisoned in different ways. Um, and the second game some of the themes jumped out to me were ah the idea of like power corrupting people. Ah mostly. Explicitly with like the personality changes when people are able to take control of the facility personality changes like immediately as soon as that sort of power is given to someone. Um.

56:33.79
Dennis
How much does the personality change versus how much is that personality given given permission to yeah exactly.

56:39.77
Ben
Unlocked. Yeah, that's a good point. That's a good point. Um, and then like the theme of looking at Aperture over time since it gives you like snapshots. Ah just kind of like.

56:51.15
Ben
Maybe to rephrase it from what it is here. It's almost like what the result of like elon must type attitude will get you ah kind of overtime and kind of like in in the case of Cave Johnson's character kind of like you know the beginning in the end. It's like kind of like what happens to a person.

57:08.58
Ben
If they make all these choices over the course of your life.

57:11.38
Jala
Oh my god Ben you just made me realize that we have like a ah less charismatic Cave Johnson in our midst in this time. No oh oh.

57:17.96
Matt
Yeah, yeah, pretty much not not a great comparison. Yeah, also the surveillance thing like it's really hinges on like in in the game you can kind of mess with these cameras that are watching you all the time and when you mess with them GLaDOS tells you don't do that ignore those like.

57:18.64
Ben
Irl Yeah standard.

57:36.33
Matt
It's absolutely like feeds into that paranoia because there's an achievement for knocking down all the cameras and like ah every time you do it. She says something like trying to dissuade you or like telling you don't worry about if they're not important which is of course someone who's surveilling you would say. If you were paranoid and imprisoned and they didn't want you to do any of those things.

57:54.50
Ben
Um, there's a really interesting choice in the first game two where they have like the glass windows that obsfuscates like people watching you as you're doing puzzles functionally they were put there because they were like light boxes essentially that could give lighting to the rooms.

58:11.22
Ben
But it had this dual purpose of also just giving you these like seeds of doubt like who's watching me right now.

58:17.85
Dennis
It almost evokes a little bit of a a cube style like why are we doing this who am I doing this for um, and and maybe that interplays with the isolation of you know when you know so little about the world that's outside of this facility. 

58:34.75
Dennis
But you know you still have this inherent drive to Escape and be free in it. Yes.

58:39.48
Ben
I'm sorry. Are you referencing like Cube the movie or okay, Okay, so.

58:44.27
Jala
Yeah, yeah, so those are some big themes I think that is about as much as we can say without spoiling so I would like to erect a spoiler wall here. So folks if you don't want the games spoiled if you have not played these games. Go play them for God's sake.

59:03.90
Jala
And then come back and listen to the rest of this episode? Yeah otherwise ah in just a second we will come back and talk about the rest of the game in yeah I was waiting.

59:12.19
Dennis
All right? Our spoiler wall is fully erect.

59:15.59
Matt
Waka Waka Waka.

59:20.10
Jala
Um, and to say that when I use the word erect a spoiler wall.

59:23.72
Dennis
You can't do that You can't do that around. Ah do yeah, it'd be weirder if I didn't say something.

59:24.46
Ben
This is where we say the cake is a lie.

59:26.56
Matt
Can't leave a door that wide open.

59:28.47
Jala
The name folks. Yeah, like it's Fine. It's all good anyway. Ah right? I mean ah my listenership We do have a sex channel in my my server so you know like they they would be filling in the blanks. Anyway.

01:00:05.30
Jala
The test chambers in the first game that are increasingly difficult are also increasingly deadly ramping up to a showdown with GLaDOS for self at the end of portal and the facility explodes and and we'll we'll talk more in detail about that fight in a sec. Ah the fill facility explodes. Chell lands on the surface alongside the remains of gladhouse but is dragged off screen by the party escort robot. So um, we'll talk about the party escort robot also in a second down into a warehouse full of inactive personality cores where a cake is waiting. So. Some of this is nonsense to anybody who hasn't played and is just listening for the the shits and giggles of it. So um, GLaDOS as you continue through these difficult chambers starts to entice you with cake and says at the end of all these test chambers. There's a party There's a party waiting for you a party escort robot. Will bring you and there's going to be cake and.

01:01:03.80
Dennis
And this happens at the same time as you start finding like little gaps in the walls or places where you um, you know see evidence of not the Rat man. Yeah, the Rat man that like that she.

01:01:16.52
Dennis
Cake is her ploy to get your attention back where she thinks it should be.

01:01:21.37
Jala
Yeah, and there's very notably like scrawling on the walls because there's there's evidence that somebody was sleeping there. There's like you know, empty water bottles and and whatever containers where and the Rat man has been eating and living in the walls. Um, but also there's. Scrawl everywhere and and he's trying to send you warning messages and it says the cake is a lie and that of course is the big meme about Portal. The cake is a lie. So um, that's where the party escort Robot comes from and that's also where the cake comes from at the end of the game.

01:01:55.29
Ben
Because they wreck on the ending of the game like when it originally came out. It just ended with you seeing the outside and seeing GLaDOS's body and that was it and then as they were making portal. They literally patched the game and added this ending where she was being. Shrug back into the facility by the robot and that was because they knew where the start of portal two was going to be was that she was back in the facility.

01:02:18.58
Matt
Yeah, specifically on the ramp up to the sequel they patch this in because I think it was it was closer to portal two's release than than earlier if I recall correctly which like is like they knew that they wanted the story go somewhere and they probably could have kept it from where it was because you don't see Chell get away.

01:02:38.49
Matt
But they wanted to like link it more tightly and it's such a minor change if you'd beat in the original game because for the beside like the big thing you just see differently is that she's moving. She seems to be sort of somewhat conscious but being dragged away.

01:02:52.62
Jala
Yeah I think though that ah when they patched in this ending that I saw as my first ending to this game. It's kind of more powerful to me because like you're blacking out and getting dragged off by a robot because even though you got to the surface and you beat. GLaDOS you still can't get away and you know like that's compelling to me like that's more compelling to me than hearing that the original ending is you see GLaDOS exploded somewhere but like that's it like you see GLaDOS has been blown up mean.

01:03:24.38
Dennis
Yeah, the patch ending underscores. The idea that GLaDOS is kind of a prisoner in this place too right? Like there's she is not the only force keeping you in in the system.

01:03:36.10
Matt
Yeah there's there's other forces at work I also like that like because now that we're past the spoiler wall I love that the whole game is right like half the game is ramping up to this exploration behind the wall. So what happens is um on the way to GLaDOS before you can get there. What really happens is. You're ah GLaDOS is trying to kill you in different ways and you're so being successful and then the end what you think is the end is you're on this elevator going into like a pit and that you're going to be killed and then you find a hole and a crack in the wall and start going through the the hot behind the scenes of the facility. Think it's just just brilliant way to show like this is the real game here like everything you were doing was practice for this and as you explore like we talked about before about isolation and being an observed and what you learn as you're exploring is like you're not being observed except by GLaDOS like there's no one here. Everyone who is here is either dead or gone or who knows. And it's just this empty facility and it's kind of haunting. Also it kind of reinforces the paranoia but it's from just this one overwhelming personality. That's the paranoia is stemming from not anyone else seemingly.

01:04:37.77
Jala
Right? And what I really like about that shift where you are going from these Rigid formal test chambers where there's one one major solution to how to get through and so on.

01:04:52.84
Jala
And there's like you know the specific rules and you just get comfortable going in your routine and then suddenly you know you are off the grid right? You suddenly are off the grid and you are in all these other areas and the entire facility essentially is trying to kill you and you hear gladhouse. And yes, it's isolated. There's nowhere for you to really go other than elsewhere in the facility like it doesn't look like you're making any progress to anywhere really, you know you're just trying to get away from GLaDOS but GLaDOS is Aperture and you know like that is kind of like ah ah, both a. Ah, sort of hopeful feeling because you are taken off the hamster wheel. But it's also kind of crushing at the same time because you realize she's everywhere and like yes you might be out of bounds a little bit but she still has some way to get to you and she will find you no matter what.

01:05:44.53
Ben
The voice acting is so good there too at the turn where because it's the first time that GLaDOS doesn't have like complete control and so as you as she's like trying to feed you like lies and trying to get you to come back and stuff like that. It's yeah, the voice acting is like top notch there.

01:05:58.78
Matt
Yeah, you can see this yeah like you start to hear not just the like direction but like she's trying to like she's like I was kidding I wasn't really going to kill you come back. There's really is a party there really is cake which technically she's not lying.

01:05:58.93
Dennis
You actually hear frustration which is kind of the most human that she's acted.

01:06:18.80
Matt
And like even then as you get to the end of the game she becomes so unhinged one of my favorite voice lines during the final battle is when the so in the final battle when you get to GLaDOS. Um, you have to face off against her and use turret rockets to like take her out. Um, but when you get there, she locks you in and then starts pumping in a nerve gas. And like halfway through the battle. She like you're on a timer essentially like it's a slow pore and the nerve gas will kill you in whatever it is five ten minutes I don't remember the time um like halfway through she starts to fake cough like oh the nerve toxin. It's killing me. Oh wait. No I'm a robot. It's killing you like just like really. Messed up stuff and like I love that kind of emotionality I think we get more of that and we'll get to it when we talk about portal 2 where a lot of that stemming from but like she goes from just being kind of a mean robot to like being maniacal by the end because she's got you locked in and like now she really she's showing personality when you thought she was kind of just.

01:07:14.11
Ben
And I think there's a line around the same time where she says like this isn't brave This is murder as you're like destroying the cores that are honor that is also like really well delivered can can we briefly talk about personality cores because this is like my my biggest beef with both of the games is.

01:07:14.71
Matt
Robotic and emotionless.

01:07:33.24
Ben
They make 0 they make sense and when portal one isolated if there's nothing else besides portal one. Any other addition to it. It stops making sense completely because okay so you destroy 3 of the personality chords on GLaDOS in the first game. Her personality does not change between portal one and portal 2 um, like it made it made sense in the original intent where it's like the personality cores are curiosity someone that has says a cake recipe this angry monster type thing that looks very homicidal. Um like it makes sense that GLaDOS would be like ah a union of all those types of personalities. Which I mean that by itself maybe doesn't make sense because it's like why would scientists put like a homicidal personality core on something just take that off if you don't want it to kill people. But then on on top of that the conceit of they put this morality sphere on her so that she wouldn't pump poison gas in the facility.

01:08:23.76
Ben
But in the backstory she does pump poison gas and kill all the scientists because they give her a little bit so that she contest it on like cats and stuff so it doesn't make sense that she has access to all this poison gas in the first place but then like yeah the morality spheres kind of don't make as much sense and then kind of getting into portal 2 it seems like like with Caroline in particular which we'll get to like it does like she's part of her personality. But then she gets deleted so then it's it's very confusing. It's just like not it well explained like what where GLaDOS is coming from and like.

01:08:56.66
Jala
So ah things I was thinking about the personality course. So um, the personality course as attached to GLaDOS in the first game. Um. Because she is successfully murderous. It makes me feel like she overpowered the personality course because they keep attaching them to her so that she stops being whatever she is but then they all turned into essentially bits of her so that to me reads like she was stronger than the cores and that's why they kept attaching more but.

01:09:26.41
Jala
They didn't work and if they did work. It was like temporary and eventually she overpowered them is how I read this? um insofar as like okay so GLaDOS and we will get to all of this and in later part when we talk about portal 2 GLaDOS comes from a human being the consciousness of a human being. So ah, that makes okay, that's a sense. There's a part where um, GLaDOS says that she deletes Caroline I think she's lying because she lies a lot and she's especially at the end of portal two she is hiding her emotions a lot behind lies to herself and to Chell. And even in want you gun part of the reason I like that song is because she's lying. She's lying the whole time and she's doing that to try to shield herself because she's still trapped in the.

01:10:17.30
Dennis
Having just listened to watch the screen for that song. You know there's there's like computer text spelling out the the lyrics as you go and the 1 line in that song. Um, where she's telling the truth. It's something like you know and and then I'd stop being so lonely or something like that like you basically acknowledging her her isolation. Um the text just spells out redacted.

01:10:40.42
Matt
Yeah I think GLaDOS is an unreal reliable narrativerrator narrator sort of not really a narrator but character like you can't just because she says she's doing something doesn't mean she's actually done it just like you're hesitant to like team up with her in her potato form because.

01:10:59.57
Matt
She is been lying to you the whole time right? Which is why I think what's brilliant about the fact that she's such an unreliable character and yet we love her because she is designed in a way that she is engaging and interesting is that the whole premise of the beginning of portal to. Is based on you thinking that she's still the villain and that anything else you're told must be true, right? because in in this in the sequel wheatley who you're teamed up with very early on you believe because he wants to go against Glados and you GLaDOS to the villain from the first game like there's not a lot to doubt there. And that's what helps spin out the rest of the second game right? is this eagerness to believe almost.

01:11:42.83
Jala
Right? right? and um, that too kind of like even even the conceit of portal. Um I want I want to actually kind of shift pivot a little bit here so unrelatable or um, unreliable narrator character. Whatever ah, and also in portal. The fact that you are. Going through unquestioningly and also portal 2 turns your assumptions on their head about GLaDOS. Um, it reminds me in a lot of ways of Bioshock because you know the would you kindly spoiler at the you know in bioshock of of what happens there. Um, where it's kind of like oh you are going along doing these gamery things. But really, you know like you you didn't have a choice this whole time. Ha ha ha you know, um it it kind of plays with that same concept in a lot of ways even though it's not.

01:12:38.33
Jala
Underlined the way it is in BioShock.

01:12:39.42
Matt
Right? Well I mean it's underlined by the fact that at the end like the midpoint of the first game GLaDOS wants you to just stand there and die and you as a player go await I shouldn't do I shouldn't do that I I should do literally and that and like so it it.

01:12:58.22
Matt
It's hammered there. But then they let you explore it instead of like Bioshock which we're essentially spoiling at this point like famously is like this 1 line justifies the entire game you know and it's still a really great reveal I think but it's their hand. They're similar things handled in very different ways and. Just love that like that ah eagerness to comply in this in in portal one is very easily turned on your head and yet in the second game you then have to comply but it's not necessarily because you want to per se you know. And I love that kind of dichotomy with like why you're doing tests in the second game versus the first game also because they're kind of taking this player agency and turning it on its head in a different way.

01:13:43.97
Jala
And it's it's different from the way bio shock handles it. But it's still playing with the same concept. So let's talk about like the actual story of fertile 2 since sphereity kind of jumped around a bit so ah, just to fill in the holes portal 2 Chell wakes up.

01:14:03.40
Jala
Back in a stasis chamber which has been overgrown and is in a total state of decay and Wheatley appears and introduces himself as the caretaker of the test subjects who are now all apparently dead except for you and this is because a rat man felt guilty about arranging it so that Chell was the first test test subject in the first portal. Ah, that information is given to you in the comic. Ah thus when he finds out that she was put in a cryogenic stasis as the facility begins to fail. He redirects all of the energy from the various chambers into Chell's in order to keep her alive. So ah, rat man felt bad that he. Basically made Chell the first test subject that GLaDOS had to Jack with in the first game and then tried to redeem himself. We don't know whatever happened to rat man after that but he did save Chell's life at least does he I don't remember.

01:14:51.85
Ben
I think he dies I think he gets shot by a turn at the end of the comic and he that's I I thought and I thought like right before he died is what he did is he turned the power on her thing and then died but I could be wrong.

01:15:03.16
Jala
Um, okay, who knows anything is possible. So yeah, after that you move through the facility and you find all the chambers are broken down overgrown kind of like as if an apocalypse has come really it could just be time. Because there's nobody there to to repair the facilities but I kind of wonder where in the world. This is exactly like how far underground is it that there's sunlight and green stuff growing. You know.

01:15:27.68
Ben
So I think in the first game first I forget why? but it came out that it took place in Cleveland for whatever reason which is a very odd place. Yeah right? okay.

01:15:37.31
Dennis
It was It was a I think it was like just something that was hinted at in the arg. So definitely like non canon. But yeah it was It was something about like the address that was on a website for something or yeah, it was very tangential. 

01:15:37.66
Jala
That's wild.

01:15:54.00
Ben
I think the ending of portal two where where it looks to be like when she goes out that doesn't really look like Cleveland looks more like the middle of America but who knows yeah.

01:15:54.47
Dennis
Apparently under Cleveland.

01:16:03.44
Jala
Um, looks like Nebraska it's like you're out in the middle of the cornfields or something. So yeah, um I don't know.

01:16:08.39
Dennis
Another vote against it being you know the apocalypse is is the thing that you come out of at the end there looks in fairly you know it's it's it's ramshackle, but it's definitely not like Millennia old or anything like that.

01:16:23.45
Jala
Right? But but the thing is is like ah part of what sets you up for that feeling is immediately you hear like this male announcer voice in place of GLaDOS in the facility that's narrating to you and telling you stuff. And 1 of the first things he says is in case of an apocalypse Xyz and then it shows like all these images of like turrets taking over the world or something I don't know it's like pretty wild but at the same time like it's feeding you another false narrative you know and because you're seeing all this overgrown stuff. You have no idea.

01:16:52.85
Jala
What's going that could be the apocalypse. It could be fallout out there for all, you know you know? So yeah and as you move through chapter 1 you end up passing GLaDOS and accidentally waking her up. She resumes testing with Chell just the way that she's programmed to.

01:17:11.90
Jala
Intending to run Chell through test chambers until she dies and Wheatley Meanwhile is trying to find a way to knock GLaDOS's neurotoxin and turret production facility offline so that he and Chell can both escape. So.

01:17:23.65
Dennis
And GLaDOS GLaDOS makes it very clear that she remembers that you murdered her and that she's been forced to relive that moment over and over and over again because the what your memory bank shut down.

01:17:38.45
Jala
Yep yep, and so undetermined amount of time between the 2 games and she has been you know, reliving that over and over again on repeat until you woke her up again. So.

01:17:47.57
Ben
I would say the personality of Blader shifts from like a parent to like a bitter X that you might have and then very uncomfortable.

01:17:54.35
Jala
Yeah, well and the thing is is that that really plays into that bitter x vibe really plays into the way that GLaDOS thinks about Chell because she at first. Is kind of you know, just condescending overbearing parent kind of thing as the game proceeds then she starts to see Chell as oh actually ah, kind of like you know, maybe not a worthy rival but at least actually challenging my power what the hell you know? and so by the time.

01:18:28.78
Jala
You know she was defeated by Chell and has to suck it up and deal with that and then you know wakes back up again and Chell is still there like she's completely enraged and you know does not you know do definitely sees Chella's arrival definitely sees Chell as an enemy figure. You know an opposing force but also needs Chell to run those tests because something that you find out during the course of Portal Ii is that the way GLaDOS is program she gets like a boost of essentially dopamine every time she. Run somebody through a test and then they do successfully finish the test and since cell is so good at these tests the only way for GLaDOS to feel any better is to run tests constantly with chel.

01:19:16.00
Ben
I Do love like the Meta narrative there too where it's like you know, valve as a company is testing you as the player and it's like you are getting dopamine every time you solve the tests that they've set up you know and so it's interesting. That's sort of like dual Meta narrative going on.

01:19:33.82
Matt
Also with this way that um, GLaDOS's personality is like it it conveys to you very early on like this is never going to end unless you do something by do something about GLaDOS and like Wheatley. Ah you know praise on that like Wheatley is like oh. Like let's work together. We can defeat GLaDOSs because otherwise this will never stop and that ends up like kind of sparking the inciting incident because of course based on your previous knowledge of the last game. Yeah, of course you're going to listen to weekly like let's defeat GLaDOS. She's obviously the bad guy and unfortunately you are.

01:20:10.27
Dennis
Ah, um, another interesting thing paralleling. The first game is um that at this at this point in portal two I think GLaDOS believes she is firmly and totally back in control. Um, and so you know she was at the beginning of portal she was completely in control and then. She kind of started cracking and the gloves came off because she lost control because you started escaping and getting into places you shouldn't now she's back in control but the gloves are still off.

01:20:36.79
Jala
Yeah that's that's also a very good way to say it and that's because like for her time may be passed but at the same time she was frozen in time the entire time. So she's waking up as if nothing you know there was no time in between other than a lot of. Stuff to make her feel more and more bitter towards Chell just strengthening those feelings that she was having before. So um, your Wheatley's plan starts to change when you encounter GLaDOS in her chamber and you manage to swap GLaDOS's core with wheatleese. This is part of ah you know he's like oh yeah, put me in there and then they like that'll knock her off and then I can I can summon the elevator and we can get out of here and whatever so like that's his plan but as soon as he gets put into GLaDOS's chassis then he becomes drunk with the power of the entire facility at his. Not his fingertips at his his robot tips okay um circuit tips I don't know and then he forces GLaDOS's consciousness into a potato battery in revenge and then knocks both Chell and GLaDOS down an elevator shaft into the depths.

01:21:35.27
Ben
Robot tips.

01:21:50.63
Ben
Can I wanted wanted to stop it or I wanted to talk about 1 of this the scenes with the transition of power has 1 of the most like disturbing parts the part where GLaDOS is forced in and it's just like the red light and you see them like pull her in by the head.

01:21:52.10
Jala
Where an older Aperture facility lies in ruins.

01:22:09.92
Ben
And then there's like the sound effect like auto tune scream is like if it yeah, it's just if if she didn't reappear as a potato like 30 seconds later that would have been a very very disturbing scene in the middle of a weirdly comedic puzzle game I don't know.

01:22:24.15
Matt
Yeah, well I mean because I think there's all supposed meant to be emotional impact here like that moment is supposed to like aid you feeling bad for GLaDOS and and and that only adds to as you discover more about GLaDOS throughout the rest of the game.

01:22:39.58
Matt
Um, because yeah, it's horrifying like it's basically Robot murder right? exactly.

01:22:43.81
Jala
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, so that's definitely a really impactful scene like when I first saw it the first time I was like you know because I'm i'm.

01:22:43.99
Dennis
It's not bravery. It's murder.

01:22:46.28
Ben
Um, and Android Hill is a real place. So.

01:23:00.49
Jala
Secretly a very big softie and so I was like oh my god this is terrible. Why why would we have done this you know and and whatever GLaDOS is just you know GLaDOS's reasons are understandable even if she was overly aggressive and should not have been the way that she was in the first game like. You know her resenting and hating Chell makes sense. You know in this game her reasoning makes sense like you already have a little bit of understanding of her character. Even if you don't agree with her. So at that point it's it's pretty dramatic. But then yeah you go flying down this elevator shaft. Into the darkness and that's where again when you're not in the test testing chambers. That's the real portal shows up there. So.

01:23:49.12
Dennis
And fun behind the scenes tidbit in this this you know section where you're falling down an impossibly deep shaft um in the game like mechanically your character is staying still and they're just. Rushing all of these shaft elements past you So a little a technical solve for you know, having you seem to travel a crazy amount of distance.

01:24:15.34
Jala
Yeah, and also GLaDOS while you're falling down this shaft is like I'm a potato ah can you please keep me from splatting because I'm going to splat at the bottom of this you know, kind of thing. Um. But anyway, ah GLaDOS does inform Chell that Wheatley was programmed to make poor decisions in order to turn gladhouse into a moron and curb her homicidal tendencies I don't know why she was or why Wheatley wasn't detached. Originally maybe they just. Well then again they did have that whole warehouse full of personality course. So maybe they just kept a whole bunch of them and changed him out like every week as she kept breaking them is all.

01:24:55.93
Dennis
Ah I like the idea personally that the scientists didn't really understand what they were doing and they were just trying shit and then GLaDOS was overcoming it or jetting jettisoning wheatley or you know what have you and that just you know everyone's throwing spaghetti at the wall.

01:25:11.75
Jala
Well and that's really when you get down to old Aperture and you're going through and you're hearing cave johnson speak that's the real impression you get about all of Aperture is that literally nobody really knows 100 % what they're doing and they're just do. And stuff and seeing what happens without any real regard for consequences which then comes to bite them in the ass in various ways. So yeah.

01:25:40.24
Matt
I'm I'm so glad you've brought up cave johnson so cave johnson is probably what I think is the best thing that like this game brings to the franchise. Um, first of all voiced by J K Simmons a consummate professional and incredible voice actor and actor.

01:25:55.60
Matt
The the real J Jonah Jameson and all of us and like it's funny. You made the comparison to Elon Musk earlier and while it kills me, you're correct right? because through his voice logs and the automated messages and everything we hear like he is a genius. He's a genius.

01:26:15.41
Matt
Considered a visionary for creating this company but shows more and more that he's just a guy with some rage issues and like got kicked a lot in life and like doesn't know what to do with him self so he throws money at a thing and makes it happen and definitely did not think of the consequences a thing that we know Elon doesn't either and like. It. It is like the perfect encapsulation of the idiot Ceo just stumbling from success to success. Um and is performed absolutely exemplary Exemplarily by J K Simmons like every time he talks I laugh.

01:26:49.94
Ben
I think there's also this really interesting like arc in the 3 time periods where you see this like deterioration of morality where like in the 50 s like 1 you know everything's dated very you know aptly like.

01:26:51.52
Matt
And like I get a giggle like it's some of the best voice lines in the whole game.

01:27:08.86
Ben
And the 50 s like um Carerlin's very like you can tell like sexism is very normalized, um and like that comes up you know in like the opening I think ah area that you go to but also like you can tell it like Cave Johnson is very like. At least optimistic here and I feel like he actually like believes in what he's saying at least in the 50 s section and then that yeah but I mean but at the same time you also get information that like you know he's a very privileged person like he bought the salt line that they're that you're traveling through that they built these facilities in but they're trying to i.

01:27:29.65
Dennis
Drink his own kool-aid.

01:27:39.62
Jala
Can I just say sorry sorry can I just say I love the fact that it's a fucking salt mine salty as hell. That's that's what eventually cave johnson becomes that is what GLaDOS is like anyway continue. Sorry.

01:27:57.43
Ben
Um, but like since they're like recruiting like astronauts and like engineers and stuff like that like it seems like they do have like aspirations and are earnestly like trying to do that. But then that quickly vanishes when you get to the 70 s it's like. They're like literally using homeless people for test test subjects and they're like talking down to them and they're like here we're going to give you eighty bucks and then or sixty bucks and you'll be out the door like who cares about you that sort of thing and then by the eighty s it gets fucked up and it's like the employees are like they're forcing employees to do the testing as well. And like so that like by that point that's when it's like elon mus for me where it's like ethics be damn like we're just going to do whatever so that we can like keep going as a corporation.

01:28:32.98
Jala
Yeah, and that right there like as you're talking about all of that and summarizing that kind of underlines Dennis' point about like the corporate crap. Overall so yeah.

01:28:47.14
Dennis
It's interesting too that you know that that coincides with cave johnson getting terminally ill um and I think about um, was it Steve jobs but you know when he had cancer was just so terrified of.

01:29:02.59
Dennis
Like you know I'm ah I'm a billionaire I'm respected as the greatest innovator on the planet. Um, but I can't be death and like that that brings out you know the the morality be damn side of of everyone early so that you know is the thesis in this game of like. You know he faced with that. Yeah, he's willing to try less and less ethical crap.

01:29:28.38
Ben
There's also kind of another parallel there where it's like Steve Jobs went on all these like weird diets because he thought that that would make him like live longer like like weird like care juice or like fruit juice only diets and stuff like that where it's like things that where it's like.

01:29:41.93
Ben
You're only consuming sugars and stuff is like well that would be terrible for you like you shouldn't do that. You know it's like there's I think there's similarities with yeah what you're talking about these like reckless ceos and Cave Johnson that just the fact that it's moon rocks is like it's that's like 1 of the most expensive things you could ever have and it's it's like it's such a privileged way to die in a sense like. But but you have like no sympathy for him. It's like totally plain himself.

01:30:06.79
Jala
Yeah, yeah, and what's interesting is that J K Simmons performance makes him very funny and fun and like ah you know you feel even though you know he's an idiot you also are just like he's so curious. Magic though you know which is really like a lot of ceos kind of run on that juice. You know, like at some point they had a charisma and over time it decays right? so.

01:30:35.47
Dennis
Well, it's like you know he's like oh the lawyers tell me I can't say this so they're all fired now and you're like ah he's he's such a a rascal he's that he's such a Maverick and then you realize oh wait. No that he's just actively hurting everyone around him and that's.

01:30:51.24
Dennis
That's not an attractive quality at all.

01:30:52.42
Ben
I do think like some of the it's like some of the points. Yeah, like certainly certainly like a good deal of them are like serious points but like 1 is like he turns people into mantas like like some of it like goes into like ah level 11 of like ridiculousness as far as like corporate greed and perpetuating it.

01:31:11.87
Ben
I think I included a picture in the notdes where it's like report to your supervisor if you see any of these things. It's like Osha inspector like such such and such lawyer that sort of thing. Um some of them are just genuinely funny. But and don't have real ramifications real life frame of.

01:31:27.10
Dennis
It's a bit of I mean this came way after but it's a bit of the Ted lasso problem where there's like some really genuine heartfelt character stuff going on. But also it's in this conceit of being silly and and doing bits.

01:31:41.46
Dennis
Um, that that sometimes feels at at cross purposes.

01:31:43.17
Jala
Yeah, yeah, Well the thing about Portal overall is that it actually treats in a lot of real dark parts of people in society and everything but it also at the same time hands it to you with Humor. Or makes you laugh at it ah or at least laugh and then go that's fucked up at the same. You know, like right after or whatever like whatever the sequence is but like those things happen hand in hand one way or the other.

01:32:15.36
Jala
And so a part of what's compelling about this is because like comedians. Overall when they are doing their shtick on stage they are handling they're trying to to kind of come to terms with a lot of darkness that has happened to them like comedians are some of the people who have gone through the most stuff if you like. Look into any Comedian's life So like a lot of humor kind of stems from this place of trying to unpack these complex problems and deal with them even though they are kind of insurmountable on the personal level if that makes any sense So like. This game is kind of addressing a lot of stuff. Um, really it is that um is kind of nowadays being brought more into the spotlight than it was when this these games came out so it was kind of like a little bit ahead of the curve. There.

01:33:12.20
Jala
But um, you know, definitely kind of knew where the trends were going.

01:33:17.12
Dennis
You make me think of um, Hannah Gadsby's first netflix special. She's ah, a genderqueer comedian. Um and just has this great monologue towards the end of the show where they say you know that. You deal with this through comedy you bring out all this stuff through comedy. Um and the audience gets to leave at the punchline. But then I have to live with it afterwards and you know like you you get to the funny part and then you get to leave.

01:33:49.36
Dennis
But if you stick around and see the actual implications of what we were just laughing at they're horrifying and I feel that that's what portal is is doing really well here.

01:33:58.49
Jala
Yeah, yeah, so it's kind of ah Robin Williamsing it a little bit where it's like you know like the isolation that Robin Williams had you know he kind of hid with trying to make other people laugh.

01:34:13.26
Jala
You know? and and this is this game is kind of like that. So um, moving on with the storyline so you're you're in the shaft you're falling down GLaDOS is informing you about how Wheatley is dumb and then she also claims that because Wheatley is so dumb. She knows that he's just going to destroy the entire facility killing everybody including GLaDOS and Chell. But but before she can tell you any more than that you hit the bottom and then GLaDOS is scooped up by a bird and the bird flies off leaving you to explore and try to find a way back to the primary facility. What I want to know is how the hell there's like a crow this far underground because if you're like in this bottomless pit and it's like way down there where did this bird come from. You know.

01:34:58.78
Dennis
Well, all I can tell you is That's a crow worth being afraid of.

01:35:02.53
Jala
Right? for sure like that should be like a Bloodborne freaking crow. You know, like over time it would have evolved over the generations into some kind of eldritch monster. So anyway.

01:35:16.71
Jala
So yeah, ah, fifties we are in the 50 s in Aperture Chell by herself is going through hearing Cave Johnson and Caroline um introduced to Caroline kind of right off the beginning but you don't really recognize much of but you don't it doesn't hit you right away who the hell that is until later on when you end up. Reuniting with GLaDOS. But yeah, she is run through a bunch of different tests and has to solve them in unconventional ways because the state of the testing chambers is so dilapidated. Um, so. Does anybody have any comments about like the way that the old old old chambers were.

01:35:52.83
Ben
Yeah, there's a cool note in the developer commentary where they talked about the design of the 3 different areas they wanted to make the 50 s like marble and like very nice looking like to show like the corporation like still cared and then the the building and like the interior stuff gets progressively cheaper as time goes On. And yeah, by the end, It's just like a normal like corporation with just like the stuck of ceilings and whatever. And yeah.

01:36:19.12
Jala
That's that's a very good detail to note for sure. So ah, yeah, so along the way she keeps on solving these test chambers going up through the time periods I'm not I don't remember which era she comes back across GLaDOS but I know it's.

01:36:35.37
Ben
Seventy s yeah so she does the 50 s by herself and then at the end of the seventy s I think it's the end she gets glad as it might be the beginning of the 70 s but it's by the Aperture 70 sign.

01:36:36.26
Jala
A while in there like takes a while.

01:36:47.90
Dennis
There's there's like a big jump into a 70 style office building and so I think you're you're kind of in the the section of the the facility that just looks like a giant underground hoover dam.

01:36:59.64
Jala
Um, yeah, yeah, but you've already spent a lot of time with Cave Johnson telling you? Oh yeah, we've got the brightest and the best and this that in the other and it's it's kind of like.

01:36:59.65
Dennis
And then I think jumping into that seventy s facility is the first taste that you get of it.

01:37:12.83
Jala
You know, ah the launching of the space program. You know like where everybody's all excited and everything and then like over time it gets like defunded and it's cheaper and worse and then like contracted out to Elon Musk so hey look that connection again. Um, yeah, so ah, you find the bird nest.

01:37:32.60
Jala
Randomly like several several floors up and find GLaDOS the potato there and GLaDOS is like hey you've got to rescue me, please don't leave me here. They're going to eat me and yeah and I this this to me was like terrible I'm like Chell Chell stabs GLaDOS potato body. Through and just sticks her on part of the portal gun and I'm like.

01:37:54.14
Dennis
She was on top of the button that you needed to push so at least plausible deniability.

01:37:55.21
Ben
Excuses. True I think it's like such a tell tell of like how strong the writing is that GLaDOS has a potato is still like scary to you or to me at least you still strikes fear in your heart.

01:38:12.66
Jala
But it's so good where she's like how are you doing because I'm a potato. It's very good and then she's also mad because she can't lie in this form because she doesn't have enough battery. That's what she says she can't she can't lie because she doesn't have enough energy.

01:38:19.12
Ben
Um, and she short circuits. Yeah.

01:38:32.22
Jala
In this little potato battery to do all of that fun stuff. So if anybody's wondering why there's a potato um I don't know where the potato thing came from in the first place but like right before you come across the chamber where you end up. Having the fight with GLaDOS and you know the whole transfer of cores goes on where Wheatley takes over you pass through this area that had like a science day with a bunch of um science projects by bring your daughter to workday or something and then there's a bunch of little potato batteries and then um, you know.

01:38:58.27
Dennis
Oh my god.

01:39:04.81
Matt
I mean also potato batteries are like a famous like grade school science experiment I think it's part of it too is like it's very easy to turn a potato into a battery and most early science labs in like grade school. It's somewhat one of the first experiments that you do.

01:39:20.15
Dennis
Of note, 1 of the displays that you come across and Ben helped me find this is Chell's implying that she actually grew up in this facility.

01:39:30.19
Matt
Oh interesting.

01:39:32.77
Ben
And she's the one that has the potato that's like overgrown and is like on gang busters. There's there's also a second note though too where Wheatley talks about how like that was like a terrible day or something ah talking about like the bring your daughter to workday.

01:39:34.88
Dennis
Yeah, giant potato.

01:39:47.49
Ben
And so there's like a subtle implication that that might have been the day that GLaDOS like gassed everybody and that's like how Chell ended up there.

01:39:53.80
Dennis
That that might be even more on the page because I you know I noticed it hit me very hard as you're you know for part of this, you're adventuring through like the daycare facility and there's 1 place where like the you know the directions on the wall is like kindergarten this way. Neurotoxin division this way and it's like you see that and and just like she's Christ like that that that one was that was probably the most unnerved that I felt playing through the game.

01:40:23.35
Jala
Right? And like the thing is if Chell did grope in this facility or you know whatever and if she was like the one who demonstrated this one particular potato battery that was exceptional. Then that might also be part of the reason why Ratman decided to make her the first test subject specifically because why else would he do that if he didn't already have any knowledge of her so ah Chell keeps on moving through the test chambers with GLaDOS in tow skewered.

01:41:00.90
Jala
And um, the whole plan now is that you are teamed up with GLaDOS and if you can do another core transfer then she can take over and stop wheatley from destroying the facility and then she says look. We'll call a truce we both need to get him gone and I will let you go I will not kill you I will let you go. So then Chell is going through the different decades and GLaDOS starts to become increasingly curious about the people that you're hearing the voices of she's like I know that guy who is that Caroline who is that and over time you can like kind of hear in her voice when she realizes. She is Caroline or part of Caroline never whatnot.

01:41:41.93
Dennis
I love yeah I love their restraint in doing this like you you kind of know it off the bat because you know plot. Um, but in game you know they they don't have GLaDOS spell it out for you or explain it. To to Chell I think she literally just she like goes oh my god I need to think and then goes silent for a while. Um and I don't think she ever comes back and explicitly says like I've now realized that I'm Caroline and that's gonna change how I act it's all just kind of okay.

01:42:10.40
Jala
She Well she she tells you at the very end of the game. She doesn't tell you before that she she at her very last little speech to Chell before she sends Chell in the elevator up ah is you know.

01:42:27.70
Jala
When I was Caroline I realized this plank and then also I've deleted Caroline l lols by you know and she's lying about that. but anyway so yeah um but yeah she does say that. But yeah I like the fact that she does just go silent and just. She's no longer in computer mode reporting facts. She is emotional and going whoa I have to shut down and like get away from everything step back and think about this and like figure out what's going on you know now like realistically a computer would not have a hard time wrapping. It's circuits around what just happened right? but because she is not exclusively an ai she has humanity to her. She's having a human reaction and going wait a minute. So. It's pretty strong of a part there like that's that's one of my favorite parts because GLaDOS never just goes away. She's always there. So do we have any other comments about like the. Underground area before we move back to the main facility to get back to wheatley.

01:43:39.87
Ben
I'll throw out 1 note that was in the developer commentary where apparently like this this part this like character development part was one of the last parts that they wrote in the game like the original past they just had GLaDOS as like normal GLaDOS where she's like criticizing you all the time but then like. Ah, that quickly became apparent that that was a bad idea like players just felt very turned off by it and so they had to spend a lot of time trying to figure out how to make GLaDOS like as a friendly character since like everything up until that point has been written as this kind of like stereotypical evil type person. So.

01:44:11.94
Jala
And what's so funny is that during that process they ended up making GLaDOS like 1 of the most compelling characters in a like video games to me anyway because of her complexity Matt.

01:44:27.33
Matt
I was just gonna say that I also love when you're moving through this facility the increasingly bizarre or extravagant portraits of Cave Johnson that you continue to see like that are that also mimic the style of the errors that you pass through.

01:44:43.64
Matt
You know that's also the thing that is often portrayed for rich, especially rich Americans is like lavish portraits of families or themselves or the patriarch like over a fireplace and there's tons of those throughout this.

01:44:57.56
Jala
Oh and ah I just wanted to say that the Aperture Desk Job game has a kind of cameo of Cave Johnson in it that you you should take a look at and.

01:44:57.86
Ben
I didn't That's so good.

01:45:06.86
Matt
Amazing.

01:45:10.38
Ben
Um I I didn't think about it until now. But the 70 s cave johnson looks a little bit like disco eliseium's main character.

01:45:15.49
Jala
It does it does that with them when I saw Disco Elysium for the first time I was like that looks a lot like Cave johnson.

01:45:17.99
Matt
Um, yeah, it does. Yeah.

01:45:22.62
Matt
Well, it's also because it's the same style right? this like brush painting style is what all the portraits look like in Disco elysium and so like it's got a similar style which I think reinforces that too.

01:45:32.71
Ben
True.

01:45:35.23
Jala
Absolutely so yeah, ah, after going through all of the old areas Chell and GLaDOS end up back in the main facility and Wheatley is still in GLaDOS's body which is of course we mentioned before. Programmed to experience euphoria when testing so as such as soon as Chell reappears he's like oh great I need you to test and so at first he tries to make his own tests and that fails miserably because he is so stupid and so he starts using chambers that GLaDOS had stockpiled and also. Um, he's made a bunch of turrets but they're all faulty because like during the earlier part of the game you jacked up the turret making machines in that that plot to take gladtos down you know to keep her from attacking you? Yeah well he somehow.

01:46:19.57
Dennis
with with Wheatley's help and so it's funny because he's forgotten about that already.

01:46:27.80
Jala
Made it worse and then like all the blocks are like mangled weird blocks that have turrets in them that will get up and walk away if you don't put them just the right way.

01:46:35.12
Ben
Yeah I think they're referred to as like Frank and turts. But I it's just such a good character writing where it's like okay this idiot character sees two things I'm just going to put these together that'll work right? It's just like just the dumbest thought process.

01:46:47.95
Matt
We also haven't said at this point like this idiot Wheatley is played by Stephen Merchant who is an incredible actor and is particularly good at playing goofballs and low lives and like doofus is and so like just hamming it up in every scene over the top losing his patience.

01:47:07.23
Matt
But still being a bumbling moron. It's very good.

01:47:10.23
Jala
It's so good because like you get through through the performance you get the fact that he is dumb and goofy. But you also get the fact that he also is dangerous because he has power and stuff's going to break if you don't you know, do something about it and I like.

01:47:27.53
Matt
Gee I couldn't possibly think of a real life parallel of someone with so much power but is a complete idiot and that makes them really dangerous. It's not like we've experienced that in the US anytime recently.

01:47:37.45
Ben
Um, it's it's almost like any 1 thing should not have that much power. You know.

01:47:39.16
Jala
Ah, right right? The end. Yeah for sure. But um, also about those little like Frank and turret boxes I like the fact that while you're holding them. They're staring at you and wiggling and chittering at you.

01:47:56.34
Jala
It makes you just not like not want to touch them? Yeah yeah, but they also come across like some weird bug you or something you know.

01:48:00.74
Ben
It's like they don't know what's going on. They're they're afraid.

01:48:02.95
Matt
Yeah, the yeah I mean the unsettling nature of these boxes kind of plays on the lore that a lot of people don't even realize that the rumor is the companion cubes are called companions because there were.

01:48:20.88
Matt
There is a theory that there was something living inside them right? or that they had personalities or that the test subjects were so delusional they believed. They were alive and like there's these theories that were actually the the weighted companion cubes were weighted because the bodies of test subjects were in them which I don't think is confirmed in the in the.

01:48:37.68
Dennis
Oh my god.

01:48:40.27
Matt
And the canon but is heavily hinted at and like also just this idea of like when you're alone in isolation, everything seems like a friend and so to turn that on its head in this game. It's like yeah your friend cubes are horrifying. Enjoy.

01:48:54.72
Jala
Yeah, yeah.

01:48:56.19
Dennis
In the first game because I just played through that part that they are very explicit like that. The joke is that this is a completely inanimate object with no you know story or whatever and you're going to attach value to it. So interesting. Interesting interesting.

01:49:09.42
Matt
Ah, right.

01:49:14.55
Jala
Yeah, so um, there's also a note in here about Wheatley Wheatley feeling feels.

01:49:20.67
Dennis
Yeah, so you know GLaDOS is is ranting about how Wheatley is a moron and Wheatley overhears that and GLaDOS is like oh you know I I don't want to enrige the moron. So I should you know use kid gloves around him. Um, but in the next several areas you just have this. Great banter about wheatley trying to show off that he's not a moron um in my favorite line of the second game is you come out and there's GLaDOS just oh no, he's playing classical music.

01:49:58.39
Dennis
Ah, you get in the room and he you know he goes on this whole thing about like oh I'm sorry I didn't mean to didn't know you were there I was just reading the books all the books I've read you know I just read the hardest 1 machimelli of course understood it perfectly and you know wish the room book more books but there's not and just. You know Wheatley being Wheatley um.

01:50:17.59
Ben
This scene lives rent free in my head especially when anytime I listen to anything that happens to be classical music I'm like am I just dumb and trying to compensate am I like Wheatley right now.

01:50:30.50
Jala
Ah, that's well we already established that you are Wheatley in some aspects Ben. Ah.

01:50:32.12
Ben
But it's not what I wanted to hear turned into an intervention.

01:50:37.25
Jala
Sick Burn. Okay anyway, so I I do have.

01:50:42.50
Dennis
To the humanizing piece and this is I hadn't thought about this until just now very interesting. You know we talk about okay GLaDOS has Caroline and and and maybe that's why you know she is the way she is but here's Wheatley who's supposed to be kind of 1 aspect or personality behaving in a very human way and having very human motivations. Um, and you know feeling hurt by by people thinking less of him and and and trying in some very sophomoric ways to look smarter and um, you know does that mean does that mean there was a human sucked into each of the personality cores or.

01:51:12.41
Jala
But the thing about the personality course is Wheatley is the only one that has like a full personality. Every other one is just like this very limited. It seems like it was you know like a script that was written by somebody to do one thing it does it. You know like space.

01:51:29.68
Jala
I mean like you know, whatever it's got like 1 1 thing that it does and that's it. That's the joke right? But Wheatley is the only other like the only personality core that actually has some kind of dimensionality to him and granted Aperture Desk Job also has its own personality core. It's not Wheatley but it is a personality core that.

01:51:49.18
Jala
Also has its own personality like actual full personality to it. Um, so you know like there's a couple if you count Aperture desk job but like by and large they are very flat. So yeah, it could very well be that he is. An actual person that's been turned into a core because essentially GLaDOS has a core that was stuck into a chassis and she could be taken out of that by taking this one part so it can be swapped so which means there are other people that are trapped in personality cores would be might.

01:52:23.93
Ben
Which is very sad for whoever the space Enthusiast was like hey come over. We got this test to give you? Um, there is a line though when you're falling that glad it says like not only is he dumb but he's been programmed by like the smartest people to be like dumb. Um.

01:52:41.52
Ben
So um, and again, it's like the personality that's like the most unclear part of the the story because it it's hard to tell like what part is it a program and what part is it is it like a person that consciousness.

01:52:52.14
Jala
Well at the same time. Ah GLaDOS is programmed to have that dopamine squirt because of like the body that she's in correct but like ah you know that is programmed to have this this urge to test and to do this other stuff and this that and the other so like.

01:53:09.43
Jala
You know she is also programmed to an extent but there's also an extent to which she's not programmable right? So and that that is the part that keeps on rejecting these cores so there is one part that I want to talk about before we talk about like the ending of portal 2 and then talk a little bit about the fights.

01:53:29.41
Jala
In Portal And Portal two and then get into the discussion questions. So um, right before you get to where Wheatley is there is a part where wheatley is trying to get you to go jump down into a pit where there's a bunch of smashy smashers that are going to smash you into oblivion with spikes. And if you sit there and you just listen to him ramble he will throw out some real sexist terrible stuff. First he starts with your parents. What's down there. Oh your parents are down there. Oh there's cake down there. There's an exit down there. What else is down there. Um there's a whole boy. Band and they've been down here for a long time and they're not picky and and there's there's what else is down there. A pony farm is down there like he's he's throwing some real sexist stuff out there. Um, you know like just trying to get it's it's again, it's played for laughs.

01:54:23.76
Jala
But he's just he doesn't know what Chell wants so he's thinking okay well Chell is a female so therefore she must want x and then just fills in the blank with a bunch of random shit. So if you listen to that part. It's actually pretty wild. But then.

01:54:40.85
Jala
Cellon GLaDOS eventually go off the grid end up coming to the chamber where wheatley is and then the fight begins. Um, do we want to talk about gladtos fight and then circle back to this one because I think the GLaDOS fight is easier to talk about. Maybe.

01:54:53.75
Matt
Um, yeah, will and I that oh John mother.

01:54:55.22
Ben
Are you talking about frank one. Are you talking about the so are you talking about the GLaDOS fight from portal one. Okay.

01:55:06.76
Matt
Yeah I mean I think that they're interesting because the fights mirror each other right? So the whole I hinted at this a little bit but the whole fight with GLaDOS at the end of the first game is using your knowledge to ah shoot missiles at her and um as you shoot her like these. Personality cores pop off and you have to incinerate them and so it's this fight where you're deconstructing GLaDOS to eventually destroy her and destroy the facility and then this fight with Wheatley is you're trying to add personal personalityity cores onto him to overload him and corrupt him so then he'll be ejected. From the system and I think that dichotomy is really cool, right? because the there's both fights require puzzle solving but 1 is destruction and the other is sort of reconstruction because you also want to implant GLaDOS back in right? That's the whole point is you're adding these cores to eventually overload it. And then add GLaDOS and I think that like it's a smart design choice to really go in the opposite direction for both fights.

01:56:07.88
Jala
Right? and something that I really like about the way that the second fight ends. So um, it ends up busting a hole in the ceiling and you see the moon hovering above you.

01:56:08.42
Ben
That's a really interesting point.

01:56:21.34
Jala
Well, you know from all of the stuff that Cave Johnson has told you that the white gel that makes portal conducting surfaces ah comes from Moon rocks and so you shoot for the moon so that these personality cores end up among the stars.

01:56:40.49
Jala
And you you create a portal to suck him onto the moon and it's this wild thing where like you are reaching in in the first game and for all of the second game until this point you are just stuck in the facility. But here you are reaching outside of the facility not just outside the facility to somewhere on the surface all the way to the goddamn moon and pulling you know pulling um from a greater force to get rid of Wheatley for real.

01:57:08.59
Matt
Yeah, and that scene where you go end up getting sucked through your Chell is briefly in space latched onto wheatley's head attached to the body trying not to get so pulled out into space with him and of course the last second GLaDOS grabs you and saves you because you's been reinstalled as you pluck out.

01:57:28.27
Matt
As you pluck him out and it's just like this really cool moment where like Chell looks around and you can literally see the surface of the moon. You've been trapped inside this facility the whole time and now you can see a whole last section of the moon and it's just it's real right? It's the exact opposite and like there is this brief moment where you think.

01:57:41.39
Dennis
Ah, the most not trapped, you can be.

01:57:47.60
Matt
You're going to get sucked into space with Wheatley but of course Chell ah Chell is rescued by GLaDOS as promised. She didn't kill her. Ah, but yeah, it's a really powerful moment because also the fight is pretty engineered as a puzzle until that last moment where you get knocked down and then you look up the moon like they literally lift the camera. To make you see the moon like to kind of make it really obvious. It's just such a cool moment to when you shoot the portal because there's a delay and then there's just little ting as everything start and then everything starts to get sucked It's just the really cinematic moment that's done very well.

01:58:20.72
Jala
Yeah, and that pause before it actually lands on the moon. The portal is traveling at the speed of light and so like that pauses exactly the amount of time it would take for light to get there. Yeah.

01:58:35.40
Dennis
Oh no way that's super cool. Ah that that's interesting because at least in the first portal um portal shots travel distinctly slower than the speed of light like there is a noticeable delay in and how fast they travel.

01:58:49.32
Ben
You know most things in fact, travel slower than the speed of light I got to say.

01:58:55.64
Jala
Um, okay like I pulled it off the internet you can Google it I'm sure it's on the wiki or something I don't remember which page I was looking at I do a lot of research anyway. Um, so at the end of the game there.

01:58:56.72
Dennis
I'm gonna have to look into that I'm not just gonna take your word for it.

01:59:10.54
Jala
GLaDOS pulls you in and then she Monologues about no longer wanting to kill Chell. But rather she wants Chell to just leave because she is a nuisance and she sends Chell up an elevator to the surface where she emerges in a wheat field or a cornfield or some kind of a dam field and there's just blue sky and. Basically nothing else and then a moment later a very mangled and charred companion cube is sent up and lands next to her.

01:59:35.46
Matt
What I love about this elevator scene is there is a moment when you first go up the elevator at the tail end of GLaDOS's Monologue where you stop and there are four turrets and like the 4 turrets are looking at you lasers up and you're like oh.

01:59:53.27
Matt
Liar She's killing us anyway. But with the turrets So she's technically not doing it and then the best thing happens before you get to the surface The turts start to sing they start to play like Acappella sounds and sing and like then the elevator goes up more and you enter this giant Chamber with like all of the turrets.

02:00:12.81
Matt
Like singing you goodbye. It's really kind of cool and a little touching. It's bizarre also but like I love that like they took that expectation of like oh no turrets. Ok I'm dead and then just made them sing. It's the kind of wackiness that you expect from the series I think it's played really well.

02:00:31.12
Jala
Um, yeah, yeah, and if you paid attention to all the little scenes that were on the monitors at the beginning where they're talking about like in case of whatever there's going to be takeover by the animal King and then there's like a.

02:00:31.61
Dennis
It's ah it's a little treat for finishing the game for sure.

02:00:45.77
Jala
A leopard print turret with like ah a big crown on its head in stuff like in a bunch of the earlier stuff and you see him at the the very last thing you see is like all the other little turrets and then like the big animal King turret in the background and then you get ejected to the surface. So yeah and the.

02:01:03.97
Jala
very very very end you see Wheatley in space reconsidering his actions and like kind of going you know I really shouldn't have done that that's terrible. It was because I was so drunk with the power and whatever and then you know I would have done things differently but he's often spaced stuck forever with the space turret.

02:01:20.44
Matt
But my favorite thing about this game is and these games is like the the bits are always funny like all the personality cores in the first boss fight is like it's the rest like the first one is like curiosity which is just floating around him.

02:01:37.48
Matt
And then the second core is literally the recipe for cake like you've been hearing egg the entire game and then the second core is literally just repeating the ingredients for cake and then the third one is this like monstrous evil like impulse to murder and like then in this game. It's like.

02:01:54.12
Matt
1 of the personalities is literally a fascination with space. That's it. That's the whole personality and like it yelling about space is a precursor to then sending it to space and like of course one of the most quoted things is like just the core going space I'm in space space love space space I'm in space.

02:02:12.22
Matt
Like it's just it's a bit. There's no depth to it really other than we all love space I guess but like it's just I love that kind of writing I like you know I like a good like smart joke but I will almost sucker for a good bit and there's a ton of them just through the personality cores of both games.

02:02:27.93
Jala
So something that I like about like okay so the first 3 tours from the first are not chart. Um personality course from the first portal definitely are aspects of GLaDOS. These other ones from the second game are also aspects of GLaDOS because you've got the the one that's really excited about space. Well Caroline was very excited about.

02:02:41.80
Matt
Yeah.

02:02:49.75
Jala
Aperture and working with the moon rocks and the astronauts and this that in the other and we're going to do all the science and it's going to be amazing. She was married to science according to Cave Johnson so she was very excited about it. So that's like her pure joy at science played for laughs but still. That's what that is. And then the other one is this like okay, what do we got to do this that and the other and like very pragmatically like okay we're in this together kind of thing and that's what GLaDOS is when she's in the potato. She's like okay we have to fix this How do we fix this. Let's go partner, you know and that's how she is so those cores are also still her.

02:03:29.52
Matt
Yeah, for sure and like I think I think on some level like there are 2 theories about Wheatley right? either. Wheatley is a completely separate personality from a separate person or Wheatley is like the.

02:03:44.62
Matt
Like we all are capable of being stupid and doing stupid things right? So Wheatley could be that more innocent Wheatley could be that like the the dumber side of Caroline right? like this innocence in stupidity this you know ignorance even right like because.

02:03:47.80
Dennis
I Don't know what you're talking about. But.

02:04:01.62
Matt
But as we go through the facility. He's not just stupid. He's woefully ignorant like maybe say a certain political party and like purposely pushing against this the actual intelligence to prove that he's intelligent but not like by really saying anything and that's a personality trait and so Wheatley could just be another.

02:04:20.89
Matt
Very developed personality of Caroline. It's hard to know right? and I think this whole like structure plays with that. No.

02:04:25.90
Jala
Well yeah, the here's the thing there is that one part where Caroline ah or Cape Johnson is going on his like I think it's like the the lemons rant.

02:04:27.53
Ben
I don't know Caroline doesn't seem dumb though. She seems very.

02:04:38.73
Matt
Yes.

02:04:41.70
Jala
Throw the lemons back at them and he's like yeah tell him you show him blah blah blah and she's getting into it as GLaDOSs is getting into it and is just like he's saying what we all think and this that in the other. She's just on board 100% with this idiot. So I mean.

02:04:59.19
Jala
I don't necessarily think it's it's so far fetched that Wheatley is actually some part of her magnified because all of these personality cores are just 1 bit blown up. You know magnified so much.

02:05:13.40
Dennis
That's so so interesting I think of so the idea of like you know Caroline is not an idiot. She's really smart and I think I think her very first voiceline or close to it is Cave Johnson's like say hi Caroline and she goes hi Caroline.

02:05:30.35
Dennis
It's like the signature ditz. Um, and I just have to like oh my God She was fucking with it like she was playing into it just like you know, hiding hiding it really well. But like oh you want me to dits I'll be aits in this kind of way that I find amusing. Um.

02:05:46.34
Dennis
I Wonder how much that is in there if if you go back and look for it.

02:05:49.68
Jala
Yeah I don't know don't know the story is not done there yet though I'm going to summarize real quick. The rest of it so we can shuffle off to talking about this discussion questions. So ah in the portal to co-op. We see GLaDOS continuing to test with two robots. She's trying to convince herself that this is better than testing with humans because the robots don't die. She can reassemble them and they can keep going. They don't have a lifespan the way that humans do. Um, but she ends up admitting that she doesn't get the same sensation when she tests with these robots as she did when she tested with cll. There's something about that death defying aspect of putting somebody through the paces and they might die at any moment that gives her an extra thrill that she doesn't get from these robots. Ah she ends up sending the robots out. To test and at the end of each of these clusters of themed chambers that we mentioned before she sends them off into the facility to grab different Cds with classified information on them as she is using data to gain more control of the facility. So at the end of the co-op campaign. Thanks to the help of those robots peabody and Atlas GLaDOS has acquired access to hundreds of human test subjects in stasis in the lower levels. So GLaDOS says that she has more work for the robots to do and the end credits include her scanning the roster of humans.

02:07:09.31
Jala
And making comments about them both positive and negative and then in the portal to peer review Dlc it shows Peabody and Atlas returning as GLaDOS admits during the course of the test that a week has passed since the human test subjects were found and she killed them all already. So ah the testing proceeds.

02:07:25.35
Dennis
Oh no.

02:07:28.82
Jala
And she informs the robots that the reassembling machine is malfunctioning and if not fixed. She's not going to be able to restore them to life. Um, so she blames Chell for this thinking that Chell returned and took over an old chassis. So the robots reach the chassis and find that a crow is nesting there and that's the reason for it malfunctioning so the robots. Shunt the bird out of the facility and GLaDOS resolves to raise the 3 eggs it left behind to become little killing machines to test on them so well and also she's terrified of crows. She hates crows because of the experience she had as a potato.

02:07:59.30
Ben
I mean crows are smart. So.

02:08:08.24
Jala
Um, so this is also her like sweet sweet revenge on the next generation or something. So yeah, but so yeah, um, that's the rest of the summary of the the rest of the story of portal to pass the single player part.

02:08:14.96
Ben
A pox upon your family.

02:08:27.28
Jala
Ah, do we have any other comments about like the gameplay and how that ends up ah panning out past the part. The Spoiler wall fart like we have the turret fights but like you indirectly like portal them portal objects onto them portal behind them and then knock them over. Things like that you you can use the bouncy gel to bounce them off and cause them to topple that way so that they get damaged and all of that. So um.

02:08:53.41
Dennis
Really, the game is is just about torturing turrets.

02:08:58.12
Jala
A lot of times it is and yeah the thing is it makes you feel real bad for them because their voices are so sweet so it is yeah I don't name you for sure. So.

02:09:04.69
Dennis
I know I know but it's also kind of fun. Ah, um, Lord what 1 thing that just impressed me throughout was how.

02:09:06.13
Ben
I Don't blame you.

02:09:20.98
Dennis
How much restraint and focus they have in the pacing. Um Ben you said it earlier that you know portal two does have some puzzles where it's just kind of luxuriating in the mechanics. It's taught you um but it's always very quick to move on to the next thing.

02:09:37.98
Dennis
Um, and I always when I when I kind of got a new element. Um, or you know a new mechanic added on. Um I always had this feeling but like but but there was still so much to explore with the last one like I I wasn't on play with that yet. Um, and I I actually love that because they they are giving you the best. 10% of puzzles related to light bridges or the best 10 % of puzzles related to the gel etc. Um, and even though I'm sure there was a ton of stuff they could have done just playing around with mechanics further they they really never overstay their welcome. And so just just the speed with which it moves through mechanics and the confidence it takes to says hey I taught you this really cool thing. Um, ah but I'm not going to spend a ton of time waving it in your face. Let's go on to the next really cool thing. Um, is is something that really stands out to me for this game. Gameplay wise.

02:10:32.28
Matt
I think both games really do that. Well even though the first game is more tutorial I think because the east each test chamber is pretty quick, especially the early ones like you feel accomplished and it's we joked about them at a narrative about getting dopamine from valve but it's true, right. Every time you solve a thing you want to do the next thing and it's why you can often get through the first game pretty much in a sitting because it's 3 hours of like oh I did the thing I'll do the thing I did the other thing and and then the the second game just builds on that right? just pinpointing and fine tuning all of the basics that were laid out in the first game and I think.

02:11:10.30
Matt
They're they're unlike some games that like super iterate on their sequels I think portal two is just a nice evolution of what the toys that we were given in the first game while still growing the narrative I mean it's triple the length. It's almost It's 8 to 9 hours long and they put a lot more in it. It could have felt bloated but it really didn't maybe in moments you might have felt like okay when am I getting into the next part. But for the most part I feel like it moves at a good clip just like the first one and something that's triple of the length of a already almost perfect game could be seen as bloated but absolutely wasn't.

02:11:43.14
Dennis
And I wonder if 2 felt as good as it did pacing wise because they were so focused with one you know they didn't outstay their welcome with a bunch of the other mechanics in one and so people were still hungry for it in 2

02:11:56.88
Ben
I Think this will probably step in my final thoughts. But I think the secrets Ill they have is they just play test everything into oblivion and so the games are just frictionless is the way I would describe them where it's like. You know it's like 99% of the people are going to get through every puzzle like every time and feel satisfied about it because they playtested it so much.

02:12:14.20
Jala
And I like the fact that the difficulty does ramp up to where like the first time you come across these There's always going to be a test chamber in the later section that is kind of a wall for you and you're like huh and then you're like I'm going to set this down and come back to it the next day after I've wrested my brain a little bit from all this portal play or something. And then like you get back to it and you're like oh hey I get it now you know like the next time you pick it up at least me I have a bell curve about my performance when I play games and so like once I'm over my little um, big top crest of the the bell then it's like okay diminishing returns got to turn this off now we will

02:12:53.85
Jala
From this out till tomorrow.

02:12:54.21
Dennis
A that. Ah that Pes forwards to our our themes. You know, maybe maybe time not being as productive as you could be or time. Um, you know in ah in a less high performing state is actually.

02:13:09.22
Jala
Which actually leads into the last topical episode before this one which was about grind culture and as of the time we're recording this. It comes out tomorrow. But for everybody who is listening to this when Portal episode comes out. It was the last episode. So yeah, yay.

02:13:09.93
Dennis
More helpful than we think it is.

02:13:28.80
Jala
But um, yeah, so talking about like portal. Overall I do want to say 1 more thing I love the fact that valve turned over the keys to the kingdom and let everybody just make their test chambers in stuff and they support the community that built up around it because people still. Like test chambers for this game people are still jacking with it. No, it's great.

02:13:52.38
Matt
Yeah I think while it sometimes is frustrating that valve releases very few games these days. The games they have released have retained their shine in a way that I think a lot of games don't I mean.

02:14:06.67
Matt
It's almost a gag at this point the team fortress too is still such a bustling kind of community and game that people still play and like portal is no different hell after half-life Alex the vr game came out, people are still hungry for a supposed half-life 3 and it's like I think that because we get so few valve. Specifically made games especially in these major franchises that they've created like I mean that's just it right. Portals are franchise. It's 2 games I mean there are a bunch of side things. But it's just 2 games but those 2 games are so special and so impactful they are franchise worth discussing on their own and I think that's something that. Makes them continue to last and continues to make the community keep coming back is how kind of open valve is with their ips and you think about all the creation tools based on the half-life engine as well and how people make movies in them and stuff you know I think all of that stuff is because of Val's openness to share the resources they use to. Build and create these things.

02:15:07.76
Jala
Why Matt you must have read the first discussion question and decided to answer it I love it. So um, other folks, what are your thoughts about the lasting impact of portal as an I p ah video games pop culture. Whatever.

02:15:28.41
Ben
For me, it's kind of like hard to gauge because it's like it's just a universally beloved game like when you get to the steam charts when you look at games by user reviews portal and portal 2 are like consistently the top 2 entries granted could be some chicany since like steam is the one who owns this but ah, but yeah I mean it's like there. They're just near perfect games. So it's it's hard to gauge because it's like probably almost every game in the last five to ten years like has at least some influence from these games in them somewhere you know, just because these are just universally beloved.

02:15:57.88
Jala
Yeah, and I kind of feel like there have been more physics based puzzle type games since portal I I don't know that for a fact, don't don't at me I don't know. But um I have the impression that there are more at least a larger titles that I've heard about that have physics based puzzles. And you know try to encourage you to think outside of boxes and you know think with portals if you will um as a result of that the term think with portals is because of this and you know it's kind of shorthand and Dennis I think I'm stealing your note.

02:16:34.64
Dennis
Yeah, how do you know? Yeah I completely agree that at least in my vernacular and and I know in many others like thinking with portals is is just a part of your everyday conversation like anytime you want to say thinking outside the box. That's the phrase that comes up but I think that is ah. A microcosm for the impact. This game has had.

02:16:53.50
Matt
Yeah I think also part of it is I talked before about how valve is kind of free with their tools and like letting people play in the sound box. Um, there's a note in in our our dock about splitgate which is a game that came out. Last year I don't know if it's full release but it was definitely an early access at least last year and it's it's essentially what if you took halo and gave them portals like that's an oversimplification but that's essentially how it plays right? It's a running gun multiplayer shooter where you're you're literally using orange and blue portals to.

02:17:24.69
Dennis
Yeah, it and if if you squint it's halo.

02:17:25.50
Matt
Teleport around and kill people and right and like but as far as like the game like they're not that they could have made the portals any color but they didn't right, there's that association they want people to like connect with it and I think. Valve like all of it is just advertising for valve right? If you want to use portals. It's why they let like you know we talked about bridge constructor before like it's just all of it ties back to this game that will just sell more copies and is always on sale and is on sale during every steam sale like I think. That kind of connectivity and split gate only came out in 2022 like so it's still having an impact all these years later.

02:18:06.93
Ben
There's also a fun fact there. The portal colors colorblind people can see them the blue orange. So.

02:18:13.80
Dennis
Oh Very cool prop probably going back to that play testing right? I Um I don't know I don't have a technical background So I'll ask it as a question like the the technology and the programming that goes into creating portals. Was that kind of a breakthrough for for valve.

02:18:31.52
Ben
I don't think so or like like it's complicated, but it's not. It's not that I don't know I don't think it's that complicated. So 1 thing that's cool is when they were developing portal two they were using portals to develop the game.

02:18:46.36
Ben
So like normally like when you're making like all these levels like you're stitching together like assets and stuff in this like giant virtual space or whatever but they're like we already have this portal system. So we're just going to put all our levels on all these independent spaces and just come together with portals and then that way once we have an idea of what the final shape of the game is then we'll like put everything together.

02:19:03.73
Dennis
Very cool.

02:19:05.40
Jala
That's cool. So yeah and also of course there's GLaDOS's appearance in pacific rim of which was very random when I was watching that movie and I'm like GLaDOS is in this movie that's wild.

02:19:19.77
Jala
And then it made me want to go play portal because that's again more advertising right there. So.

02:19:22.76
Ben
1 1 thing I thought of as we were recording. This is the first portal like the story at a high level is essentially retelling 2001 space. Obviously the middle part where it's like you figure out the robott you're dealing with evil you get in this situation where you're like locked out from it and then. You eventually fight it kill it and destroy its memory like 1 piece of its time and it dies. Ah, but as Matt said because like they do everything so well themselves like valve has now like retold this story but made it their own and now everyone sees that as like the gold standard.

02:19:54.49
Jala
Yeah, yeah, and part of it is again that play play testing I also think because they're not trying to pad out portal or portal 2 as a longer game because a lot of game companies. Do that if they're triple a these days. It feels like a lot of stuff is padded out to add game length for value or whatever. But ah, it doesn't you know these games do not overstay their welcome, especially 1 is very concise and it doesn't feel like there's any ah fat to trim.

02:20:26.79
Matt
Yeah I mean I would say most indie games learned a lot from portal which technically isn't really an indie game but sort of feels like it right? Spiritually it does feel like 1 and like it's why I love like I I don't mind a thirty forty fifty sixty.

02:20:43.94
Matt
80 hour experience but those are harder for me to be excited about because of time limitations as an adult but you give me a 5 to 10 hour experience and I will always be excited and like portal after replaying it. It's like the pinnacle of that experience I finished it over two days two sessions and like there was not a moment where I was bored upset or didn't want to. And like I tend to luxuriate in more of those kinds of experiences and portal for sure set the standard for those kinds of quick narratives that a lot of other games. You know, pursue now especially in the indie space.

02:21:13.87
Jala
Yeah, yeah, absolutely so here's a big question and this is again. Ah thanks to the whole Boob sliders thing that was but was not um is portal feminist and this is something that of course was asked when it was extant when it was new. Ah, and this is something that was vastly discussed at the time but to me the answer to this question is very tricky because some people say yes, some people say no and for me, it's just it's not simple. So people who say it is feminist say. The protagonist and the antagonist are both capable femmes and the men are basically inept and they're outclassed but Chell is said to be brain damaged many times we don't know if they're lying but Wheatley tells you that you are too and Wheatley at least at the beginning of the game does not appear to be lying to you. Or anything. So ah, they do the the brain damage thing to explain why Chell doesn't speak. Okay, whatever. Um.

02:22:19.32
Dennis
That that to me feels like ah a bit that just came at a time before people were were thinking about. Ah you know who they who they might be talking to on that level like oh that feels funny and and didn't think about it enough.

02:22:28.49
Jala
Yeah, yeah, and I mean like that that also is like a prophet of this game being as old as it is because like that's blatantly terrible ableism that doesn't need to be in the game but um, it is what it is um so there's that but if she is. Then you know that is you know a challenge that is kind of um you know, not ever really addressed I don't know it's it's weird. Um, but then also GLaDOS is an Ai who is based on what was a human but neither one of them is like. A classic stable feminine character GLaDOS is emotionally unstable and Chell. We don't know if she actually has brain damage or not so question Mark you know.

02:23:15.62
Matt
I mean I mean I I don't know if it's feminist but I will say it passes the bekdall test because neither of these 2 women are talking about a man. So like there's that I am right? exactly right? He exactly.

02:23:27.83
Jala
Um, ah, but the 1 person who does is Wheatley saying there's a whole boy band down there and they're not picky. Wow wow Wheatley. So yeah.

02:23:35.37
Matt
Right? but but yeah but like as far as a feminist question like I think it's I think like any good piece of media. It's not just a simple yes or no um I think it's worth exploring. But I mean I the brain damage thing aside which I think I'm 10 to lean on the side of it's an inappropriate joke.

02:23:54.48
Matt
About a person who's perfectly capable and just doesn't want to talk. It's also playing on the side remember that not talking is playing on the silent protagonist of the rpg era which were super common in a lot of games and so drawing attention to them not talking is is is a goof in the same way. It's been in like Super Mar Rpg and a bunch of other games and so. A chrono trigger.

02:24:13.41
Dennis
Sets up sets up with my favorite jokes which is you know say Apple and it says press space to say Apple and you jump.

02:24:19.44
Matt
Yeah, um, but like I think that Chell is a pretty great feminist character in isolation like she's she's heroic. she's brave she's strong she's smart um she's quick you know it's not perfect. And the game is a feminist work is not perfect. But I think that's what makes it a better 1 arguably because I think like things that are easy to answer are let are not worth discussing and I think the best materials are worth discussing. Um I also think GLaDOS could be considered a feminist. Character based on like a lot of what we've seen like she clearly wanted something and like was trying to get what she wanted as far as getting you know as Caroline advancing in this science program didn't end up I think working out exactly like she wanted but like I think there are moments of strong. Feminist ideals that you can latch onto whereas the overall characters. It's harder to say yes feminist or no not feminist. Feminist.

02:25:19.00
Jala
Yeah, so something I want to point out about Chell you say that she's smart. She's smart and she solves the tests because the person controlling her is smart in solving the tests that person can be anybody doesn't necessarily mean a female the females but the avatar. So.

02:25:35.74
Matt
Um, true.

02:25:37.34
Jala
Ah, there is that but also it does play with genre because this is an fps game with no actual Bullets. No Gun I mean it's a gun but it's not a gun. You know what? I mean So um, it's a puzzle solving device and it's a female protagonist. Like you know fps which was at that time, especially like a very male dominated space. So instead they put a female character that doesn't have like the traditional fps weaponry.

02:26:05.46
Dennis
Did was there anything in commentary about the decision to have a female lead and a female villain.

02:26:10.87
Ben
I Don't yeah I haven't found anything out about that one thought I had though is like you literally could not have this be a male character just because I think it would be too problematic of portal one because it's like the entire game you're chasing down and you murder the female robot like if you're a male character doing that that seems very. Like outwardly misogynistic. Maybe so I don't know I would guess. Yeah.

02:26:31.25
Jala
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:26:33.98
Dennis
Cringe enough that it would have stood out in the time that this was made. Yeah.

02:26:36.35
Matt
I Mean correct me if I'm wrong, but like the the one of the leads on the original project like the lead was a woman I believe wasn't it or am I making that up the original creator of like the the portal project. Yeah, right? And so I think that's part of it.

02:26:50.34
Ben
The yeah the indie game. Yeah I know one of the commentators is woman who worked on it. Yeah, ah.

02:26:56.14
Matt
2 um, is that a person in a place of leadership on the team who created the game like that could have influenced why the main character and the final boss were both women. Um yes, um, and so but yeah I don't know I think.

02:27:06.49
Ben
Kim Swift is her name.

02:27:13.98
Matt
I think that I was gonna say like I think that ultimately there's no right? or I don't know if there's a right or wrong answer here right? It's there's like ah it's perspective and like you said it's a first person game and so yes, you're right? It's the person who's controlling Chell is smart. But.

02:27:14.31
Dennis
Man that's sparks ah go go ahead and finish yours. Ah.

02:27:21.73
Jala
I Don't think there is either to be honest, but.

02:27:33.10
Matt
That's the meta narrative the narrative of the game is that Chell is doing all this stuff. So if you want to say Chell is a feminist character. You would be right because she is doing these things and is a strong powerful character but you would also be right with your line of thinking Jalla that. But. If a man's controlling her is that still feminist I mean I would argue still yes, but like it does like you're right like the meta can't be ignored in the whole message of the game and I think it's an interesting like perspective between the 2.

02:28:01.55
Jala
Well, the interesting thing to me is that I think that this game talks is is trying to treat more with Dennis's premise of Dennis like you get attributed with the premise. Ah you know like the the corporate.

02:28:17.10
Jala
Corporatizing and the the cynicism and all of those kind of the power structures and bureaucracy and shit like that and ah, you know like the control of everybody else. Not necessarily just women coincidentally in this case yes and maybe not coincidentally.

02:28:19.93
Matt
Right.

02:28:34.82
Jala
Intentionally in this case because this is this isn't just like a simple decision that was made um to make both of these characters female it So happens. Um, but you know at the same time.. There's lots of fuel to discuss one way or the other different perspectives and I don't feel that there is necessarily like. A through line of yes this is definitely if I'm in a game This is the intention of the all tours or whatever. No I don't I don't think that um they obviously chose these characters to be how they are for reasons you know whatever those reasons may be but the narrative that they're telling is not specifically. Ah, feminist Narrative You know you can derive that yourself because when someone creates something. It's not up to them How people interpret that so that's that's on whoever is consuming that piece of fiction that.

02:29:30.30
Jala
Artwork that whatever that game has.

02:29:31.80
Dennis
And this is why it's so important to have diversity in the people creating the game and not just diversity and who's featured in it because I would agree I don't I don't think any of the creators were setting out to tell a feminist story in the way that you seem like the Barbie Mooc which does does a phenomenal job doing it and being overt about it.

02:29:51.33
Dennis
I don't I don't think that was the intent here with portal but because you had ah women on the team heading it up etc. Um, all these choices get made and things get included that tell an interesting narrative when looked at from a feminist angle. Um, and and there is that depth to pull on whether or not it's the primary thing they were trying to communicate or not and I don't think that can happen unless the creative team behind it is diverse.

02:30:17.69
Jala
Yeah, yeah, so I do want to present some various thoughts that I've had about this because I've thought long and hard about it because like the deeper I dug in on it. The more interested I got in just the idea. Yeah literally.

02:30:31.90
Dennis
for for 8 years You've been marinating on this.

02:30:37.49
Jala
So yeah, so GLaDOS is in some ways a direct representation of the toxic negative stereotype of a woman who is complying with patriarchy. She's passive aggressive. She's Caddy. She's bullying other women Chel she's. Wholeheartedly is Caroline kowtoing to cave johnson and this is played for laughs for the both for most of both of the games. Um specifically in portal two because you see so much more of her character there. Um. And as she keeps on concocting more and more mean things to bully Chell with because like as I go through the game. Both games. It seems to me like while she's waiting for Chell to finish each chamber. She's sitting there thinking about what she's going to say to Chell next when she beats the chamber because it just seems like she's just.

02:31:29.51
Jala
Thinking up stuff in between and Chell for her part is playing the ideal woman of toxic masculinity for a good chunk of both games because she is silent in voices. No protest to the powers that be she's complying with the request to keep testing until the circumstances. Like people trying to kill her make her have to make a decision to stop complying and go elsewhere and you know try to free herself. So um, those are are some interesting things that I thought about but also there's an article I link it in the show notes GLaDOS as a victim. The anatomy of a monster. And I wanted to drop this year because another episode in a couple of weeks will be about this. So ah, there's quote there is an implicit boundary drawn between powerful and feminine. A purely feminine figure cannot have raw power and 1 with power cannot be feminine I feel this is very closed. And very much a western notion and I'm going to be going into this in more detail when I talk about tencimoyo and love and anime from the east. So um, yeah, you can put a pin in that for now and check out that episode when it comes out at the end of September I will be talking about that again. So keep a pin in that. But the article does continue and then point out that Caroline is beautiful. Intelligent married to science and thus off limits to men but under patriarchy women exist to be with men and thus her existence has to be transmogrified into something more controllable hence.

02:33:03.32
Jala
Her consciousness is transferred into a robotic body that they can then add personality cores to and try to program and this that and the other and regardless of the fact that they can't in the end control her Um, you know it's still the thought process that gets her there. So.

02:33:22.79
Jala
Ah, it's really misogynistic and in 1 of the unused audio messages Caroline says repeatedly that she does not want something and J K Simmons actually didn't want to record Cave Johnson's lines for this part because he felt that they implied rape. Because of how much she was voicing. You know her refusal of whatever it was which to me reads as she doesn't want to be put in the machine. So yes.

02:33:51.22
Dennis
Definitely done without her consent.

02:33:53.12
Matt
Yeah I mean there's the line that you have here where he talks about how um you know she'll argue. She'll say she can't she's modest like that. But you make her as in reference to like the scientists and make her do this thing become this machine because it's what the future of the company needs. Regardless of what Caroline's agency is and what she wants which is just as bad I mean not just as bad but is also bad.

02:34:17.77
Jala
Yeah, so I mean like on the flip side. Okay, because we're we're we're talking about it in terms of Caroline and Caroline in relation to patriarchy to male power and this that and the other that she because she is beyond the male gaze she is. Being placed further from the male gaze but also in a place where they can contain her. She's trapped in GLaDOS Body she's trapped in a place where they can program her shut her off. Do whatever they want. Um, there's that but also it's cave Johnson. Has 0 regard for literally fucking anybody so it's not exclusive to Caroline. It's across the board so to play Devil's advocate as much as I'm talking about Caroline's story and trying to give you perspective on her versus male patriarchy and things and the fact that it starts in the 50 s is significant too.

02:34:53.21
Matt
Right.

02:35:11.80
Jala
Because of course women had a very different role in the 50 s than they did you know in today's era so you know like all of this is stuff to keep in mind when you're thinking about Caroline as a character and why she is so cool as fucking GLaDOS like that's really That's the point I'm I'm getting to. With all of this lead up is just building on how complex her character is and how there's so much going on you know behind the things that she says and lies about GLaDOS exists solely because of the loss in captivity of Caroline. She's unfettered unchained and she is the spite of a woman who has been assaulted controlled and is even now held in captivity even though her captors have all long since died she is medea she is women's wrath come to to. Levy Justice but all the men are dead and she's got chill and Chell is who she turns on until she's stuck in the potato battery remembers everything and then goes oh shit. Actually I don't want to do this anymore. And that's so powerful.

02:36:26.50
Matt
Yeah I think the I I think my opinion is that the whole arc of it is very feminist but there is a lot of complexities that get you there? Um, and and this this how you frame it right here I think is a great example of that right? It's showing.

02:36:43.78
Matt
GLaDOS's full arc and the power she still had in the end to say no to Chell and to like move on right to to can't get the revenge she wanted. But maybe she can start something do something right? and they play with it a little bit even with the bird ending right? She's still gonna. Create little murder machines or whatever.

02:37:01.91
Jala
Yeah, yeah, and for me at the end of portal 2 she is absolutely hiding all of her feelings and intentions under her spiteful words to Chell. She's saying oh you cellist Chell is terrible Chell needs to go to the surface and go wreak havoc somewhere else. Basically she sends Chell to the surface but to me having realized her whole history and realizing also that as gladtos. She's never going to leave. She's stuck here forever in this empty facility with nobody. She suddenly wants to free Chell because she can't be free. So she's going to vicariously be free by letting Chell go and she lets Chell go and she sends the companion cube. The only thing that she can with Chell to the surface which is actually really touching. It's played for laughs because it's it's charred. And it's that companion cube everybody forgot about for a while because it hadn't showed up since the first game and there it is at the end of the second game haha it's there. It's charred, but really, that's the only thing she can give to Chell on the surface. She can't go herself all she can do is send that companion cube. And it's really touching and sad at the same time. So it's like her last parting gift of the best she can do so it. It's Dennis.

02:38:28.87
Dennis
Yeah, well, it's I think it's really powerful too on the level and we'll talk about this more as we get into kind of the themes of isolation. Um, and and how that interplays with with kind of feminism and all that stuff. But um. That the the key realization here is that Chell is not her enemy like you said she's got all this anger. All this wrath built up. Um and and directs it to another woman who's ultimately kind of in the same position that she's in um and that character growth of like realizing that and then in her own Way. You know, making things right? Ah is is very cool.

02:39:09.90
Jala
And what's cute though is like the end of portal 2 when Chell's at the surface and she's just out in the middle of this field. You have no idea what's going to happen to her. You don't even know if there's any civilization left. You don't know where it's at if she's ever going to find it. You know how is how she going to get by if she doesn't talk you know, ah this that and the other like you have no idea so you know there's that and it makes me and when I look at this ending. It makes me feel like sad like it's isolated and lonely. In a lot of ways even though there's hope ahead for Chell at least and then like when the portal to story continues in the co-op and then the dlc and everything like that. Um GLaDOS is still being GLaDOS and she's it's kind of kind of reassuring in a way because even though she's un. You know dissatisfied and just trying to find a surrogate to fill the gap that used to be there from Chell you know at the same time. Um, she's still trying to soldier on and be herself still and it kind of to me feels like a breakup you know. Ah, you mentioned the x thing earlier and yeah it is. It's kind of like they've broken up you know like they they had like this really volatile worldwind kind of you know I wouldn't ever say they loved each other but they definitely hated each other for a while there.

02:40:38.44
Dennis
Each each one was the only person the other had well.

02:40:39.42
Jala
And now they realize in that way, they kind of need each other you know.

02:40:44.37
Ben
There's like a mutual respective intelligence there. It's like Batman and joker whatever he's like she's passed every test that she's set up sort of thing.

02:40:57.51
Jala
Now we don't know if chll really needs GLaDOS but GLaDOS needs chll for sure. So it does feature this game does feature some really strong independent female leads and they team up to combine their might to fight Wheatley in everything ah and they prevail in the end. But it also this game shows the deep physical and psychological wounds that were inflicted by the patriarchy corporate culture on these women and the damage that can't be healed and yeah, it's it's real lonely at the end but like yes it is ah kind of like a survivor overcomer.

02:41:35.71
Jala
Story in a lot of ways. So what other thoughts do we have about any of the the characters like not necessarily feminism, but just the characters of Chell and GLaDOS.

02:41:52.78
Ben
I don't know if I'm stepping on there's something you wrote so I don't know if we just haven't gotten into it yet. But the the part where like ah gladettes represents like silent work being done with like running the facility and like it's something that's not ever brought up but she's like doing this in the background. And you don't even understand like that amount of work's being done until Wheatley's put it there and you're like oh like like all this needs to be handled. And yeah.

02:42:16.25
Jala
Yeah, yeah, and that that kind of goes into what is in ah, current discourse about how much women you know how much work women actually do they will work their 40 hour job and then if like they're married and they have children. They also do. X amount of hours of extra work that is unpaid labor doing x y and z you know, ah for their their family organization that the men aren't doing in a lot of cases. Although you know like ah Dennis I would say is is not this this ah husband yeah, this bundle. But.

02:42:48.47
Dennis
Ah, hey I'm I'm the stay at home Dad What's up now.

02:42:50.13
Jala
You know I know all right, right? So you turning that expectation on its head Also good job. But um, yeah, so it's it's kind of like ah that unpaid labor The the silent you know bearing of Burdens you know women are expected to. Ah, give themselves up in service to the furthering of ambition of men under patriarchy so GLaDOS has been doing that this whole time and not saying a word about it not expecting anything out of it just doing it and that really speaks to the feminine experience. So So yeah, anything else any thoughts on that. 

02:43:36.90
Ben
I Think well I mean as to say I think for me, it's like I don't think I'm equipped to answer if the games like feminist or not. You know it's like I try to be aware of like the feminine perspective but it's like I am not I am not equipped to be the judge of that. So.

02:43:42.68
Jala
Ah, yeah, that's fine. Any other thoughts about Chell or GLaDOS as characters not separate from the feminist thing just like as characters?

02:44:00.20
Ben
I did like the the point of the themes upfront when you said it was like the feminine embodiment of the patriarchy like seeing portal one is that I think is ah a really interesting way to interpret the game where it's like yeah you could see like. Chell's experience through the test chambers and stuff in port one similar you could see that is like what modern woman might need to go through in the workplace as far as like being manipulated watch lied to and then in the second game like like the the way like the personal digs and stuff like that. Um. Not to get too off on the tangent or whatever. There's a linus tech tips news story that came out today about like how horribly a woman was treated there and like through tweets or something like that and it's like it's one of those things where it's like you know it's like you want to wish this stuff is in the past. It's like oh it was only in the fifty s that's the only time that it was trivialized but it's like it's still going on right now. So um.

02:44:50.66
Jala
Yeah, yeah, definitely and um, that's that's definitely like 1 of the the interesting things about this game is because I I don't feel like this is the only way to interpret the game. This is a thing that I've sat with only just looking at it through again through a particularly.

02:45:07.76
Jala
Ah, feminist slash you know a female perspective lens because of thinking pre being predisposed having a ah history of thinking about this game in terms of those female characters because up until the point that it was pointed out to me hey by the way these are both female characters. I mean think about it to be honest. So. Having that presented to me having years of thinking about it bringing this game back up and playing it again and really digging in especially after watching the Barbie movie and talking about toxic masculinity which is the episode that comes out right after this one you know like it's it's interesting to look at it through that framework. Not the only framework you can look at it through but it is one that holds up I think.

02:45:51.74
Ben
Yeah, and you get more dimensions or you you can you find values that you wouldn't be able to find otherwise in the game.

02:45:57.57
Jala
Yeah, absolutely so then Ben you had a question here.

02:46:05.40
Ben
Oh yeah, wait which ah, the Caroline one or then the what are the similars. What are the similarities and differences between Chelling GLaDOS in the first game because I see them as being somewhat mirrored where they're both.

02:46:19.76
Ben
Imprisoned you know, ah Chell's explicitly in prison wardrobe and she's subjected to having to do all these tests all the time and GLaDOS is imprisoned in this programming and she is forced to test people all the time.

02:46:31.96
Jala
Yeah I didn't even think about the fact that it looks like she's in prison garb because she's in the orange Jumpsuit but you're right that is prison Garb I was just like Yay orange my favorite color. That's the depth to which I was thinking about it. But yeah, ah, they're both stuck underground. They are both subject to some higher power GLaDOS has programming Chell has GLaDOS. They are naturally forced into these opposing roles and they're stuck playing these roles to each other. And they both wish to rebel against the things that are trying to control them so in a lot of ways they are very much mirrored.

02:47:11.89
Matt
I I mean the personalities too right? They're both smart. They're both stubborn. Um, you know they're both clever. They're not that different really other than being on completely apporsing forces. But personality wise they are you know I could argue that GLaDOS is much crueler.

02:47:29.64
Matt
Than Chell but we don't know right because Chell is kind of a blank slate but they definitely do have a lot of similarities personality-wise to to.

02:47:37.39
Dennis
I mean we we get to see Chell fight the turrets and and as we said Portal 1 is basically a turret torture simulator. So there's a cruel streak there I think ah you raised something interesting and in in GLaDOS's program programming. It made me wonder.

02:47:43.43
Matt
True. Yeah, you're right.

02:47:55.35
Dennis
Are there sections that show GLaDOS struggling against her programming. While she definitely has kind of gone off the rails and and it's clear that people have made attempts to try to control her. Ah I can't. Think of anything that really highlights like those attempts succeeding in any way.

02:48:16.27
Jala
Well, you have to also remember that the people trying to control her died sometime before the games happened. So no, one's actively been controlling her for some time and thus.

02:48:30.28
Jala
Unless there's a flashback. We're not going to see her struggling successfully against what they're trying to do. She basically has these extra cores on her body in Portal one that don't really do a whole hell of a lot because she's already done. Whatever she's going to do and she's been operating free reign for a while now. So like they're just kind of like extra broken dongles that are on her that don't really do a whole hell of a lot doesn't feel like.

02:48:54.16
Dennis
Yeah, her her imprisonment is almost more boredom I Guess like yeah she she won the battle. She overthrew the patriarchy she's in charge of this facility now. But she's still living in the box they created and and so it's like well what I you know.

02:49:12.56
Dennis
What do I do with this now and you could see how that would make someone turn out the way that GLaDOS did.

02:49:17.30
Jala
Yeah, for sure. But she definitely had the murders tendencies before though because they you know she specifically said the scientists were trying to put these cores on her to keep her from killing everybody so she's she's been like that. She's been raging. Since they first put her in there. That's why I mentioned Medea you know like trying to kill everybody trying to kill you know, even even the unspeakable deeds you know media will go there. Yeah out of her spite and anger from the trickery done to her so so Ben next question.

02:49:57.00
Ben
All right? This is one I think it's like 1 of the biggest question for me at least was ah it was just the question was Caroline killed when her consciousness was put in GLaDOS and what do you guys ones talk or.

02:50:11.55
Ben
I have a I'll have a long winded thing to say but do we want to say our answers first for this.

02:50:14.23
Matt
I mean I guess my thought is yes, um, ah based on what the game implies and the unused lines that have come to light over the years too like she was forced into this. Why would she fight it. If it was just the taking a part of her brain and letting her live her life. Obviously the fighting the not wanting it is probably because it was like the end of her life this like we have. There's no here like the brain in a jar idea so like technically she's not dead but her body is but then also. The way GLaDOS talks about the care. Ah, the the Caroline part of her and like even just say lying and saying she's deleting it like it's not one so like it's it's unclear even how much of her actual consciousness is in there versus you know this new being that was born out of her consciousness. So to speak.

02:51:10.13
Jala
Right? right? and I wonder how much of that is because like um I I have listened to a lot of Lavar Burton Reid's podcast which I highly recommend to everybody a lot of what he reads on the podcast is speculative fiction. So many of the stories are about like these. Humans turned you know, uploaded to computers type Ai things and um, there's some certain stories that talk about like um like there's there's 1 from 1 particular story I have mentioned it on the show before on the death positivity episode I will relink it again on the show notes here. Um, where basically there is a very brilliant scientist who has her memories regularly uploaded into a computer she dies and that computer is now running a bunch of different stuff and there is an integrity test that they do where they bring the daughter of that lady in. To ask a bunch of questions of the Ai and talk to it to see if it still has you know like its purity of of retaining that original mind and the whole story really revolves around that that daughter. Interacting with this ai and going. It's not really my mom because she would never x y z and you know just basically it it addresses how over time that ai would morph and change and no longer be that person anymore and so.

02:52:36.67
Jala
And a lot of ways I feel. That's what's kind of happening here with Glado so I highly recommend people check that out again. I'll put that in the show notes. But um, that's what I feel is occurring here as for did she die I believe yes she did some of those online ah unused lines fact that she was forced into this. And so on and so forth. Ah, all of the Aperture science stuff that you are provided tell you that all of the science is imperfect. It's not going to be something where they can just transfer her brain her brain and upload like a copy of it and then she's still perfectly fine. Everybody has an adverse effect. Everything that Aperture does has a problem attached to it the same is going to have to happen with Caroline.

02:53:22.13
Ben
So the reason why I asked this question because I think it kind of revealed something about myself because it's like the first time I played this? Ah I didn't even consider that as a possibility I just thought like oh she got promoted Ceo after Cave Johnson Died and like she just copied her brain over. But I think that's. Why I think that's revealing is it's like I think it's similar to like whenever you talk about things like the patriarchy and sexism and stuff like that. It's you know it's pretty uncomfortable conversations. Especially when you talk about it in context to like how you perpetuate it how I perpetuate it you know and how you can and or I can unknowingly like. Do things that are that are sexist and stuff like that. Um, even though like I'm not you know, even though you know you can have a certain amount of like oh I didn't intend it or whatever. Um, so this question kind of brought that sort of feeling up for me where it's like oh yeah, that's like totally a possibility that they like.

02:54:15.41
Ben
You know, forcing her to do it wasn't just saying like she'll be stubborn. She won't want to be Ceo it could be like no kill her or something like that. Um, so yeah, so I thought that was like an interesting thing that I hadn't considered before.

02:54:25.96
Jala
Yeah, and you know like there's there's a certain amount to which everybody is going to be blind about something we are imperfect beings who all embody certain experiences and we can only draw on that which we have any experience with. So ah, the broader that we cast our net in terms of engaging with other people and engaging with different you know media and different people and different perspectives that are different from our own the more we educate ourselves so that we are no longer. Um. Kind of blindsided um because we do very often with regards, not just like feminism but like other aspects as Well. Ableism is a big one and also when it comes to racism and and classism and so on and so forth any any level of privilege privilege. And all of that like that's definitely a thing where you end up in a situation where like you you will sometime commit that faux Pa You know you will sometime not. Consider an angle because you just never have thought about that angle because it's not in your wheelhouse.

02:55:43.27
Dennis
I got major vibes from this when I went back and listened to the the Cave Johnson line where he says you know oh put put Caroline in charge. She'll argue so straight you can't she's mos like that. But you make her um and at least the way it's performed. And and viewed in this light I don't think that cave johnson was that serious about it like I think he was panicking about dying and realizing that his one way out wasn't going to be ready in time and he's just saying shit. Um you know, getting all poetic as he's staring death in the face. Um, and. It just made me think about like you know men in power being glib or thoughtless can just have this outsized impact on the women around them that you know you know he he said that maybe he even forgets that he said that he dies and then the scientists around him carry out his quote unquote orders. Ah, forcing Caroline into this robotic existence. Um, just because he was having a moment of crisis and and spouting off thoughtlessly.

02:56:44.22
Jala
Um, yeah, yeah, so your next question Ben because you you like to toss some questions in here you were asking about ah symbolism of moon or potatoes in portal two which this is like I will I will admit I was like that's a random. To me like I would like to know where this question is coming from if you want to tell me that um yeah, yeah, no like I'm just like and that's that's not a thought process I ever thought about yes.

02:57:08.43
Ben
Sure this is a question that I don't know for.

02:57:11.99
Dennis
First off, then how dare you? ah.

02:57:18.75
Ben
It's a question I don't really know the answer to but it's something that it seems like the game is like harping on and so I think I included this in the Easter Egg section. Ah when you wake up after your long sleep. Ah, both the picture that you stare at and the beginning of the tutorial and like the mural across from you. Turn from daytime to nighttime even though they're like painted works and there's like a moon in each one of them and so it's like there's like small things like that I think one of the awards is called lunacy when you beat the game but it's like. So they're obviously like harping on this like theme of the moon. But I don't know why So I just thought I'd throw it out randomly in case, anyone had interpretations of it. But.

02:57:52.81
Jala
Okay, well my quick answer because we've been running for about 3 hours now and we got to like go? Um, so moon dust is actually deadly that is a fact and so like cave johnson's. Whole use of moon dust to do all of this stuff it really registers to me as that overreaching I mentioned earlier overreaching without consequences and how those consequences then tumbled down not just to the decision makers but everybody else aka like Caroline Chell etc after that and insofar as potatoes. To me I was like well couch potatoes. It makes sense to me that like you know, couch potatoes. That's when somebody is comfortable being in the same place enjoying something usually with their brain turned off but that's the time when in potato form GLaDOS ends up realizing a bunch of stuff and then. As soon as she goes back into her own actual chassis then she starts taking action to like you know, do something about the things that she learned when she was sitting on the couch reflecting or you could even think about it as a therapist couch. So so.

02:59:03.62
Dennis
Um I I love those 2 answers like I I read your answers before I did any thinking about it on my own and then I just started seeing it everywhere and and the metaphors carry through just so freaking. Well um. Particularly you know you mentioned you have ah the the episode on grind culture that people can listen to um and and just how toxic that is and like you know you are not your ability to perform you are not your highest gear. Um, and sometimes when you are forced into a lower gear. Um, say you know you can only compute with the power of potato. Ah you you discover all these things about yourself and you get all this insight and and and growth that you just don't get when you're running at top speed and and so much of of life today is. You know what? How how much can you output if you're creating content god knows you know how much content can you pump out. You know what are your ratings at work. All this stuff. Um and and just the insanity of that you can't see it from the inside you have to drop into that lower gear. You need to get outside of it. And then all of a sudden you see all these these benefits and and and you know new insight that you wouldn't get otherwise um, my my wife is actually on sabbatical right now she's in a pretty stressful corporate job and and is taking three full months to just hang

03:00:30.91
Dennis
Um, and I so I have like a front row seat to that and it it really is true and so once you pointed that out about potatoes I'm like oh my God This is this is speaking to me This is so relevant for right now. Um, yeah, absolutely is ah is a theme that makes sense.

03:00:47.44
Jala
Um, I'm glad that you asked this question Ben Matt

03:00:48.12
Matt
I mean yeah I mean I think also like we hinted at this before when I talked about like potatoes being like the earliest like science experiment making electricity run through potato to power something power light bulb. Whatever um, and like. The potatoes versus the moon is an interesting question because it's like the smallest human accomplishment versus what in the early days was one of the greatest human accomplishments going to the moon and like this idea that you know this game is showing you both the small science miracle. To the biggest of science miracles and like what does that mean for not just science. But these characters and how they interact with science and I think they all play in very well because they are rooted in some of the most simplest concepts of where humans draw in of innovation and inspiration. From and with science and like both of these other answers also are really great even like the note here like moon dust like the taking because the moon dust is used for the walls the painting and all of this other stuff. It's like taking something incredible like the moon and then just painting walls so you could use a portal toy. It's like It's still scientific and ainspiring but also something kind of simple and the same right? It's this idea of like and also the potato represents testing right on the simplest level they're making tests.

03:02:13.73
Matt
When they're making the potato batteries and this whole franchise is about testing and you start with the simple concept of how you test these children by making batteries and then you you know the massiveness of the moon and the portal gun and how it goes from 1 tiny experiment to these gigantic experiments and the scale of everything.

03:02:30.23
Jala
Um, right? That's yeah, that's that's awesome. So real quick wrap up rapid fire iy talked about what the ending of portal 2 leaves me with what's it leave y'all with.

03:02:31.21
Ben
I really like that you connected those 2 that's really cool. Yeah.

03:02:48.84
Ben
Like I don't know there's just emptiness. So it's like you know it's like you want to know what happens next but you just kind of left hanging and I you know I don't think they're ever going to follow it up so it makes me feel weird I guess.

03:03:02.89
Matt
I mean I think it makes me feel hopeful like I don't know that I need to know how Chell's story ends like I would love for Chell to be a passing commenter line in the next half life if it comes out right? like she joined the team maybe or something who knows like.

03:03:20.57
Matt
But the timelines are wonky but like I I like that we don't have a definitive ending other than she's finally free. Um I also tend to be more optimistic just in life which is obnoxious to most people around me and so like it's very easy to find the hope in that right.

03:03:36.90
Matt
Especially with the multiplayer endings like the hope that gladhouse is finally making a family even if she's calling the birds murder machines like she's essentially nesting which is like a motherly thing to do it goes back to like the overbearing mother stuff from the first game and like now ah Chell and the companion cube are both free. And like can just be can just exist. So yeah I think ultimately like it lives me with a positive kind of hopefulness.

03:04:03.19
Jala
So so Dennis how about you.

03:04:08.39
Dennis
Yeah, storywise. Um I actually I'll make this apply on on the story and gameplay level. Um, it makes me appreciate I don't know if minimalism is the right word. But. Ah, the restraint of the game on both fronts like the fact that the ending is so open and there's still so much we don't know and the way that sparks my imagination and and makes it fun to talk about with friends and all that is is really cool and then from a gameplay standpoint like I finished this game.

03:04:42.17
Dennis
Jonesing for like all right? Where can I get you know fan-made mods where can I get more portal. Um, and and the restraint they had to to just show you the best of what they got and then and then move On. Um you know leaves me very excited to play more and so I think on on both the story and a mechanics level. It just leaves me thinking about how you know showing that restraint and and and focus can can make something greater instead of less than.

03:05:07.70
Jala
Yeah, and 1 more note I will add and then we will wrap with final thoughts and get on out of here. So ah, earlier in the year in January I talked about the movie vikram vedha which is a neo noir movie from the the tamil region of India. And it is fantastic and the ending of that movie is kind of like this this open ended kind of thing and I argued in the discussion about that. Well not really argued I put forth the assertion that ah the ending has to be left open. These characters are like they cannot go any further from where that ending left them and I highly recommend you listen to that episode slash watch that movie. It's free on prime but um also I feel the same way about this game I don't feel they could have added more to it and in fact, honestly in a lot of ways. I didn't really want any more story for GLaDOS after chll left I didn't I wanted to leave that open. Um, it is more hopeful that she does have like you know at least she's got the robots at least she can. You know she's found these. Birds and everything so that is hopeful and everything but I also kind of like if she's progressed a little bit you know then it's lopsided. We're not seeing what's going on with Chell even if the like you know, Chell is no like no longer an entity. She's not entity at this point because she's gone right? But um.

03:06:42.50
Jala
You know like I I kind of felt more sad in a lot of ways seeing more of GLaDOS after that I kind of wished it would have just stopped there but um, anyway, so ah, final thoughts. Let's let's wrap this all up Matt I'll throw to you first.

03:06:57.26
Matt
I mean I still stand by after replaying portal one and then watching a bunch of stuff on portal 2 to just refresh myself on it and I I want to I'm not committing to it 100% but I would like to play portal two before the end of the year just to get the full experience again. But I think portal one is a perfect. Video game and there aren't many of those but from the pacing to how a tutorializes it and then the second half is just the actual game and the characters the writing the storytelling I think for the it's the perfect 3 hour experience at least as a game like There's no fat to trim. There's nothing I would change. There's no criticisms that I really have we get into the second game I have some and like I don't personally feel like it's bloated but it does kind of drag towards the end that's kind of the point right? The monotony is supposed to play into your frustration. Wheatley and all of that. Um, and there are still cool puzzles to solve. But I think for sure the reason this franchise has stood the test of time and people are still enjoying these games and buying these games and buying re-releases of this game these games I almost bought the switch versions for no good reason other than. To have it on another portable device and I own a steam deck. So 0 logic there. Um, the yeah but like I really do think that portal. Not only was an interesting experiment and a smart business decision but one of the like pillars of incredible.

03:08:13.67
Jala
I Almost did the same thing and I also have a steam deck say you're not alone.

03:08:29.25
Matt
Game design and what what a perfect video game looks like because like to me Krono Trigger is a perfect video game and my favorite video game of all time but it has flaws most games even the best of them have flaws and I just in the first Portal C Zero. Um. Talking about the franchise as a whole is a different story but I still think that both of them are incredible games and if you have still at this point in the episode not played either of them even knowing all of the spoilers are absolutely worth playing and would argue you probably enjoy more because now you could know what to look for.

03:09:02.93
Jala
Um, yeah, Dennis how about you.

03:09:03.49
Matt
And even add your two cents

03:09:09.43
Dennis
My final thought is space. Ah.

03:09:11.40
Matt
Well said.

03:09:12.10
Jala
Um, Lovely ben.

03:09:13.45
Ben
For me, it's just I see this game as like such a success from how it was play test driven first and so it kind of calls into question like I'm curious if you just have a perfectly play tested game but like a crap narrative would people still love it as much as this I still think that. The narrative is good and that is adding things to it but like even like things like the companion cube they talk about came about because of like play testing changes and so it's just crazy how it's like all these things that are like memes and larger than life. Ah, originally at 1 point was just solving a problem to make it an easier game to play for people. So but yeah I agree with the sentiment Matt said I think the first one's in your perfect game. So.

03:09:55.80
Jala
Right? right? and it was kind of interesting because I hadn't thought about portal in terms of being a perfect game until I read all y'all's notes and then I was like huh and I sat with it and I'm like well.

03:10:09.58
Jala
I mean like because it's so restricted in the narrative and everything like I I I naturally myself because I'm I like complicated things I like the narrative in portal to a lot but the gameplay does sh dragg near the end Matt you're 100% right on that. Ah, there are. Inconsies inconsistencies with the narrative in bits especially as you get into portal 2 as Ben mentioned. Um, but at the same time like I'm willing to forgive those in light of the vast amount of fodder. It gives me to reflect for years. Um, so. There is that but yeah, like in terms of portal one because it is so minimalist. It's hard to not like it is not giving you factors that you can critique. You know like it's not giving you a bunch of stuff to to pick nits with you know. And that that really is to its credit because again it it doesn't have anything to trim off of it. It is within itself a very good isolated experience that you can then extend by playing portal two and then dig in deep and yes there are issues with it. But it's still fun and cool and.

03:11:20.49
Jala
And extension of what you were doing in that first game. So yeah, that's all I got so yeah, where in the world can people find you if you were to be found anywhere. Dennis.

03:11:35.47
Dennis
Ah, you can find me oh man I gotta give out socials @deckofwonders on Instagram and then you could find Deck of Wonders the game on Amazon please check that out.

03:11:45.76
Jala
Absolutely do. It's fun I promise you I don't even play a card game and I played this card game so there yeah Ben how about you.

03:11:54.27
Dennis
Ah, thank you.

03:11:55.37
Ben
You can find me and other co-hosts at the level podcast. You can get a level podcast dot Com Probably I think that's it.

03:12:03.42
Jala
Yes, that is the correct you are real and Matt where can people find you.

03:12:08.46
Matt
So ah, you can't find me on Twitter anymore because my personal Twitter got nuked by Elon Musk because I had the gall to stand up for trans folks and call out terf so you know that's how that goes. But if you do want to interact with me on Twitter you can find me at 1 of my podcasts Twitter that I've kind of taken it hostage is my own which is funandgamespod which is the video game podcast that I do um the best ways to find me social media wise right? now is Bluesky if you have it I'm just djstormagddon because they don't like underscores I am dj_stormageddon on Twitch and then I am also dj_stormageddon on Instagram. Um, the ones stop shop for all the things that I do is djstormageddon.com made it really simple for you. It has my merch store my Kofi page the links to all of my podcasts and the link to the Patreon for fun & games. Ah, it's the best way to find all the things that I do. I could list all the socials for literally everything else. But I'm not going to bore everybody with that. Just go to djstormageddon.com and you can find everything you need that has to do with me.

03:13:12.94
Jala
Yay and we will have those in the show notes of course so me of course I am Jala-chan and in all the places that I may be found including jalachan.place where you found this episode and all of the others. That is all for now folks until next time take care of yourself and remember to smile.

[Show Outro]