[Show Intro] Jala Hey, thanks for coming! I'm glad you're here. Come on in! Everyone's out on the patio right now. Looks like a couple of people are in the garden. I can't wait to introduce you! Can I get you anything? [turned away] Hey folks, our new guest is here! [Intro music] 00:00.00 Jala-chan Hello world and welcome to Jala-chan's Place! I'm your host Jala Prendes (she/her) and today I am joined by Greg Polander (he/him) and Josh Kovel (he/him), yay! 2 new guests that I have not had on before yay. 00:17.58 Jala-chan But I podcast with both of you. So how are you both doing today Josh you laughed first so you get to go first. 00:26.67 Still Loading That's right I'm the one that talks first now. No thank you for having me on job I'm doing fantastic I'm excited to talk about these games and I've been looking forward to this. You were. 00:33.27 Jala-chan Yeah I was on your podcast Still Loading to talk about Captain N: The Game Master. Yay. 00:42.35 Still Loading Of course the first thing you're ever on for my show is a cartoon of questionable quality. 00:48.21 Jala-chan That's fine I mean like you know those episodes were very funny and then then again also the show was pretty much something I mean like I'm not 100% sure what but it sure was a thing that existed. So. 00:58.68 Still Loading And let me tell you we're on season 3 now and it is wild. 01:04.17 Jala-chan Yes, I heard the first episode that you guys have dropped about that and it was very fun to listen to um it had Dave crying so but. 01:11.86 Greg Um, very. 01:15.32 Jala-chan Yeah, so ah, we'll we'll come back to your podcast. We'll talk about that a little bit more in a minute but Greg how are you doing today. 01:22.81 Greg I'm doing all right? Ah I will second the Captain N episode also being great because I also was a I also was a fan of show growing up so I show the dvd as matter of fact, so but anyway, um, yeah, so um. 01:28.38 Still Loading Um, ah thank you. 01:37.79 Greg John and I have podcasted to podcasted before in the past and various and various and thank you very to their sites and game. So I do a podcast as a brilliant podcast like coast of mine which my switch is my which is my currently active podcasting series. So. 01:53.10 Jala-chan Yeah, yeah, so ah, your podcast The SNES Podcast is at where where can people find that out just like look it up on your your whatever is there. A dot com? 02:02.99 Greg Ah, yes I I yes, the podcast is hosted at a ah the ah the podcast is hosted like at the snes podcast ah ah, period pinecast dot a Ceo so. Ah, Google search also or go search was to find the gese like. 02:19.69 Jala-chan Yeah, and Josh you have Still Loading podcast but you also have some bonus shows and some other stuff going on tell folks what you do. Promo, promo! 02:28.41 Still Loading Oh um, am I allowed to promote the Patreon she and oh I I didn't know that I always feel weird promoting the stuff that people pay for on other people's shows. Oh yeah, so a Still Loading podcast. It's a. 02:43.27 Still Loading Video game grab bag podcast or I do a little bit of everything you know as Jala was talking about before ah then she was on the captain n episodes the episodes if you will and then I also do interviews with game developers and musicians and voice actors. But then I do. Deep dive retrospectives which I am planning at some point once I deal with some personal stuff but ah to get Jala on because there's some some games I would loved specifically Dishonored I'm shouting that out right now. Jala I'm holding you to it. Um, and but we'll get to that at some point. 03:17.46 Still Loading But yeah so I do deep dives and a little bit of everything and on the Patreon end I do bonus content over there like is that we've been doing a thing where I have one of those. It's called the gamer 5 portable system from my arcade and it's one of those 220 and 1 handheld systems and all of them. Absolutely all of them of great quality guaranteed 100 % you know when you get 220 games and 1 handheld from an unknown manufacturer you know it's going to be quality with games like curly monkey and curly monkey too. And. 03:48.18 Greg Um, yeah. 03:53.13 Still Loading There's a bizarre. No I just actually recorded um the tenth volume of it recently. So we've covered 80 games and I've noticed there's a lot of games on this thing that revolve around you playing as a panda doing various olympic sports like javelin and high jump and and track. 04:07.92 Greg Um, this mission is. 04:11.56 Still Loading And all these other things I'm like I don't why a panda I don't know but they've been sticking with this panda theme. Um, and then I also at the $5 for $5 patrons I also have still bonding which is a monthly James Bond podcast for me and a bunch of friends bond over double o 7 and each of the each one of those episodes are. Unfathomably long. The one I'm currently editing is three and a half hours and so yeah, they're they're very big deep dives into the movies and I'm very I love doing them. So at this point where we are up to a view to a kill so we just finished out Roger Moo's tenure and we're moving on to Timothy Dalton soon 04:32.72 Greg Oh geez. Ah. 04:47.12 Jala-chan Woo Yay! So yeah, that's the stuff that you've got going which is quite a lot I will also say for listeners. Um, if you like this combination of hosts on this show. Both of these fine folks will be on with me sometime next year. I have yet to set up exactly when for the legend of Zelda cartoons. So um, talking about old ass cartoons and and based on video games and such like that. That's a thing that you will get in the future on the show as Well. Yes, it'll be real fun. Yeah. 05:16.65 Still Loading Oh I'm excited excuse me Jala. 05:19.49 Greg Um, same ah. 05:23.86 Jala-chan Ah, you only get so many of those before I start to like scream and and lose my mind or or I'll have to or or I'll have to do the Ganon and just be like "get them like this hehe," doing the boxing moves. It'll be great. 05:43.31 Still Loading That's why on the Captain N stuff whenever someone says Kevin I I have to hold back the urge to pull a Home Alone and yell Kevin so I limit it to just once an episode I'm allowed 1 time and that's it. So for the Legend of Zelda thing I'm allowed 1 excuse me princess and that's it. Any other I get flogged. 06:01.39 Jala-chan Ah, well, that's going to be like 1 episode about like the whole thing. So like you're you're going to and have more than one is's just going to happen. But anyway ah today today dear listeners we will be talking about the SIMULACRA IP from Kaigan Games. Ah we will talk more about that in one moment. However I do want to shout out our newest patron of this show Adam Bucceeri whoa fanfair so Adam Bucceri is the creator of Enter the Survival Horror which is a very cool tabletop rpg based on Resident Evil. It's very fun and very cool. Um I I have been trying to arrange a game with him for a long time. But everyone's lives keep blowing up. One day I will have it happen but in the meantime though. Ah there's Enter the Survival Horror but there's also his podcast Halftone Takes where he and his best friend Cory Revis talk about stuff and things they are both animators. They are both enthusiasts of media particularly animated and movie type media but they also play games and so on and so forth. So ah, they do a lot of really cool topics. They had one where they were just trying to talk about what the definition of anime was which was actually a really good conversation I was like Hm I'm not sure how I'm going to feel about this episode because that those kinds of episodes like you know, ah with that kind of a topic you you might think I'm not I'm not sure how this is going to go but it was a very fun episode to listen to they I think the last one they did was about the movie theater experience. So. 07:49.15 Jala-chan Very cool. You should check that out. So ah, you can also be like Adam who is one of my heroes by going to ko-fi.com/fireheartmedia and either dropping us a onetime donation or subscribing yes, coffee has patron tiers just like Patreon and there's extra stuff for subscribers. Any and all donations are given a shout-out on the show and are greatly appreciated. You can also rate and review us on your podcasting platform of choice. It gives me warm fuzzies to see each and every one of them that is old for all the admin now it is time to talk about SIMULACRA. So Simul Lara Sim you lara how do people say that sim you Lacra. Ok k we'll go with sim you lara we will do sim you Lara then? Okay, so ah. 08:28.33 Greg I Usually say like si you lacra. 08:34.15 Still Loading That's how I say it to I say Simu locker like since it's a simulation type of thing. 08:37.90 Greg Um, yeah, it's a Latin word right? I think yeah. 08:41.68 Still Loading I Don't know if I'm right? but. 08:45.29 Jala-chan That's okay, hey it's it's the majority vote right now. So ah, you know? Okay, so this is a series of found phone detective horror games by Kaigan Games. The first entry SIMULACRA was released in 2017 as a spiritual successor to their first game Sarah is Missing. 09:02.29 Jala-chan Which was released a year prior that game was a game jam game. So it was really short. It was. It's available for free if folks want to check it out. It's very very short. Um, it basically just lays the foundation for what they would later do when they started the simulac rest series. So it was also followed. By spinoff SIMULACRA pipe dreams in 182 SIMULACRA 2 in 2020 and SIMULACRA 3 in 2022 and just a note for folks, the Wga and sag after strikes don't pertain to this work because this is a malaysian developer. So. Stuff in America doesn't make any difference to this. So yeah, ah, ah Greg you said that the only other game that kai gun games made was a doctor who title. 09:53.00 Greg Yeah, it's surprising the fact that they actually made that game because Bbc tends to control their license pretty strictly so I don't know how a small indie group from Malaysia got their hands and a license to make it to to be to make doctor who game but they did so um, yes I Dr Ho fans I definitely wanted to play this. Ah, to play that game as well. If follow was same formula as the sim like a game same engine. So like the game plays like very similar just like you found phone? Um, yeah, the same style gamet etc. So did up 2020 came out on row 2021 um, but it's even shorter game than the same lack of games are I finished but um I think of might playth through like 1 session with 2 hours so but definitely, um, but it's a but it's a but the games but the games are direct sequel to 1 of the best doctor who episodes of the weeping angel. So anybody who is a fan the show I gather recommend. 10:44.99 Still Loading That that is wild because I was legitimately thinking like I wonder what they could do with a found phone doctor who gave maybe something with the weeping Angels I was in my head had you said it like oh oh I Guess that's apparently not. 10:47.98 Greg So a you're not they want to get that thought of care of it because but yeah, it is a great episode it a great episode of the show. It's one of my favorites. It's also a fan favorite. So. 11:00.53 Jala-chan Ding ding ding. 11:09.72 Greg This and in this game in this game act in this game access direct act as direct sequel to it. So thank you do like definitely has very like definitely has worked So definitely's worth playing the great fan. They're a fan the show. But um, yeah, this but typical. But yeah, this company this company is not done. 11:27.24 Greg Any other games that ah has not done any of the games besides 5 which kind of unfortunate I think because I think this company has a lot of promise. Um, you know these games may be flawed as we're getting to in a moment but they all show a lot of a lot of interesting ideas And chemistry behind it. So I like so I'd like to see more from this company. 11:47.10 Jala-chan Absolutely I feel the same way. So with Sarah is missing just to give you a little bit about what that is ah Sarah is missing surprising. No one and you found her phone. So ah, you end up teaming up with an ai app on her phone who is basically trying to find her because that is. You know, like ah the prime directive of the ai is to take care of the person who you know has the ai. So um, anyway you have to wade through her messages her phone and so on to figure out who she last had contact with and what she was doing and and this that and the other and there's. 12:20.26 Jala-chan Multiple endings. But again, it's really short I want to say it's not even an hour worth of gameplay like it's really really small, but ah it it did definitely put the groundwork down for what they did in SIMULACRA. In SIMULACRA each of these games somebody is missing or otherwise withdrawn from society and you either find their phone to dig through it to find them or interact with them via text as you do in pipe dreams and then try to free them from a larger malevolent force at work behind the scenes each of these games. Every single one of them has multiple endings to it. So um I know Greg that you came across this and I I know Josh you also came across this because of me because I played it um primarily because I played a lot of mobile games for a long chunk of time. Um, before I got a switch. 13:12.60 Jala-chan Before I had a steam deck. Yes I had a Vida Yes I had a 3 Ds but I also just liked to play games on my phone because there were interesting titles that I was able to find that were unique and not available on other systems. So you know I ended up playing a bunch of different mobile titles and. I Got into this whole thing where I was playing a bunch of locked room. You know, Escape room type games and you know detective games and things like that visual novels and so On. So of course simulacer came up as a recommendation when I was searching through the games you know in my app store or whatever. 13:51.21 Jala-chan So I was like oh cool I'll play this and I talked about it on duck feeds the level some number of years ago at this point and then Greg you thought it was real interesting and then you picked it up and played it and you liked it and so at some point when I was doing ah the you know the planning for the rest of this year's episodes. 14:10.60 Jala-chan And you know the next episode to release at least as of the time we're recording. It'll be the last episode that drops before this one. It's about internet and identity and this game's themes trade really heavy in our engagement with tech. 14:28.85 Jala-chan And with each other via you know the tech that we use also via social media. Our impact the the impact of our digital devices and social media on us and so on so ah because of that I was like oh. Let's do this in your locker games I know I got Greg and then I was like hey Josh you want to come on and I I don't think you ever heard about this before I asked you right? Josh. 14:53.96 Still Loading Correct I was surprised when you asked me to to come on for it I was like but I'm always down to try something new and without spoiling any of the obviously the thoughts on any of the story and whatnot. But even just final thoughts it it was. I actually had a pleasant time with it. It was a pleasant surprise. 15:12.15 Greg Yeah I would not have heard of. Yeah yeah I Definitely but definitely when I've heard of these games if it wasn't for Ja in the Discord the Discord so bad if my free time to wear wallets because I've gotten so many games because of they get that way. But anyway, yeah, so ah, yeah, because these games did not get very much attention or press you know, um. 15:30.43 Greg Ah, they reviewed well but you know there's so many indie games on steam these days trying to find the gems. It's like you know in haystack time. So It's like and being a small team. Of course they're not getting a lot of like a lot of like a lot of ah um, our attention behind them So anything we do to give. But to give that to give shout to these games I think it's like like well worth it. 15:49.70 Jala-chan Absolutely and you know what I was really curious about was whether or not you know any different cultural elements would come through in the game because of the fact that it's not made in America or Europe or Japan or whatever. But honestly, no like it. It doesn't. 16:09.31 Jala-chan Um, you know these games don't come across as as notably of any you know, different culture or anything like that. Um. 16:15.27 Greg There's a couple of small things I picked up on but nothing but like really too big. 16:20.52 Still Loading I'm I'm grateful that I didn't miss anything because I have a tendency to be a little bit ah like I don't know what the right term would be but I'm not observant. That's the word I was looking for I'm not very observant when stuff comes for stuff like that where if there is cultural differences. 16:38.20 Still Loading I don't genuinely generally notice it I might it might just be like oh this seems a little bit like off from what I'm used to and that's about the extent of my thought on it like I'm a huge fan of this ties back to this I promise. Ah I'm a huge fan of like old Jackie Chan martial arts movies and. The way that you know he tells stories of those movies is so different from what I'm used to with north american cinema and I remember watching be like all right? These are some odd choices and I'll notice that but I couldn't tell you what the cultural reasons or like notice what the cultural. Differences are other than just like oh this is different to me. 17:14.40 Jala-chan Yeah, well, um, 1 thing that I will say is that for a lot of people when they think of southeast Asia they have like very so like touristy images in their heads because a lot of people in the west don't know anything about southeast asia in general. 17:29.58 Jala-chan But like there is a lot of diversity over there and you know that's really represented I feel in the casting in these games. Um, there's there's a lot of diversity. There's There's a lot of um, you know, just like ah ah, different cultures that maybe don't even get expressed in games over from America unless it's made by a person of color. You know it is how I feel about it like this this has a very good well-rounded representation of like a population you know, um, rather than just being skewed in a direction. You know what? I mean. 18:03.58 Greg Right? Yeah, there were 2 big things I picked up on one of the ones was one that you just mentioned Joe the other one was that um in in Asia but in Asia particularly mobile games are huge. There. There's a bigger market for them over there than there is they can hero like North America like Europe. so um so I'm not surprised company at the company made these games mobile first because to be that said that that's the the game market over there. So um, and these games are ideally suited for the phone that may be. 18:36.45 Greg Maybe cause some issues and create issues when trying to play this like in the platform which we're getting to or like later on but the other thing is like oh it's a mobile game. How we gonna be like crappy because they're um, best I first like thought ah the thought about it because like I love because beat love mobile games. Let's be honest, are pretty bad. But. Um, please to say this mobile game is actually very very good. This is really like a diamond rough as far as that go so don't let the fact that theyre they don't let back this game come from Asia you know dissuade you at all from playing it because it's to it definitely above the crop as far as that goes. 19:05.00 Still Loading That you that yeah you made me think of something. It's it's from a different country but like the point that you made specifically about how mobile games are much more popular over there is I think is really is really important because. 19:20.47 Still Loading Um, they're not to shout out my own podcast but there is an episode I did earlier this year where I talked about japanese feature phone gaming which was huge in the mid two thousand so like um and I understand that's not Malaysia but yeah I could totally see if you're even just basing it off of that where. 19:27.66 Jala-chan Is here. 19:40.39 Still Loading Mobile gaming was automatically something that was popular even back into the early two thousand s versus for us. We didn't really get it until like the early twenty ten s the last slash late aughs and then it turned into obviously the kind of like what you see a parody of and later on in the series. Um. 19:59.20 Still Loading So we I feel like us in North America we have kind of a sour taste in our mouth for mobile gaming for the most part which makes me happy that you explored so many of these jollica there result there are a lot of good mobile games out there that really don't get the their due because of the perception that we have of them here in North America 20:13.80 Jala-chan Oh yeah, and the thing is is that a lot of them are actually being ported or have been ported to something like steam like lone will freemastered I love that game sorcery is a great game eighty days is a great game leviathan last day of the decade this game the company I can I can list off a whole bunch of them. Um, of games that I really like that started on mobile and you know you can in some of those cases get them including SIMULACRA. You can find SIMULACRA on steam not all of the entries but 1 2 and 3 the mainline ones are there? Um, oh is it. Do. 20:47.20 Still Loading And pipe dreams is on there too. that's how I that's how I played it because they didn't have it on Android. 20:48.39 Greg Yes, yep, yeah same yeah. 20:50.14 Jala-chan Okay, great. Great. So They okay, cool, Cool. So yeah, like all of SIMULACRA is available on Steam. It goes on sale. It's dirt cheap when it's on Sale. So um, definitely like put that in your wish list and take a look at it if you don't want to pull the trigger on it just yet. But um. So Yeah I Want to get into a little bit so we we already gave the basic Premise. There's somebody missing in all these games. It's like um, a murder mystery or a detective mystery type game where you're trying to find somebody and get them out of a bad situation from a larger power that is you know like you uncover as you go through the game. So ah, we'll leave that. 21:28.54 Jala-chan The story for now we will go into each individual one and then we will go into spoilers later on so like there will be a spoiler wall So don't feel like you can't listen to this. We will tell you there will be a copious notice. There will be a link in the show notes or a timestamp rather in the show notes to let you know when we're going to start talking Spoilers. So if you want to Play. You can listen up to that wall and then doe out come back later after you played them. They're short so insofar as the gameplay is concerned. This is as we mentioned a found phone series of Games. So The interface is meant to mimic a touchscreen smartphone complete with mail. Photos and videos a web browser chat Apps Social media dating Apps a shitty mobile game. Ah you know like the ability to call people so on and so forth so much of the story is conveyed through chatting with different characters who primarily text you. 22:23.97 Jala-chan But they also sometimes call or send a video message or ah photos or audio messages to you so like you can engage with all of these different things and I will say that the first time that I played this game. It was kind of hard for me. A little bit grading on me to go through and like wait for them to type their messages because they act like this is really a person on the other side of the screen typing the message so you see the little dots pop up when you know as they are typing in everything and you know then the messages will pop up. 22:59.29 Jala-chan And they pop up like at the rate at which somebody would be typing them. So um, if you hate texting you will not like these games. Ah for that reason, but you can still watch somebody else play it or you know like watch the endings or something if you want to do that on a Youtube or something but um. 23:18.43 Jala-chan When I went back through and played it again. Maybe because I have engaged with Discord a lot more on my phone I don't mind it anymore. Um I'm kind of desensitized to the method by which this story is being conveyed to me at this point. What do you guys feel about it. 23:35.15 Greg I Just didn't mind the text delay at all because that kind of gave a sense ofosment to me because like you know like I love immersion in games so anything that the game can do to to increase that for me I've really enjoy so and um, you know and the delay is not really that Bad. It's like you know you can always that you want you can always tab Out. Do something else the game by waiting for the text to come in and then like go back into the text messages that um, um after everything's been loaded per se so um, no I didn't mind it at all I liked it. 24:00.53 Jala-chan Um, cool Josh. 24:04.71 Still Loading Ah, yeah I didn't mind it at all it. It added to the immersion of it and I do think I don't know if if this is too early to bring this up Just let me know what we can hold off on this but I was going to say I do think this game is worth playing on a phone versus on steam if you can get it because of this type of thing because of. 24:24.66 Still Loading Playing cycling through the apps and looking at your social media apps your text messages your photos your videos and all that stuff and I played the first these first 2 games on my phone and then I guess had I played pipe dreams on my pc but. I I didn't enjoy pipe dreams as much and I think a lot of that was because I wasn't playing on my phone because you kind of lost that little bit of immersion and I really enjoyed it. It was funny I was showing a friend of mine at work who he's a bit older than me. He's in his sixty s. And I was like hey I'm playing this game for an upcoming guest spot and he's like well's I don't understand what I'm looking at it's your phone I'm like no no, this is the game and he was so confused by it. It was kind of funny and but I think that kind of lends that to me that's a credit to the game where it it allows you. It allows. Player to get a little bit more immersed in what the world they're trying to create for you is through text messages through the different apps and whatnot so I enjoyed it. 25:23.19 Jala-chan Yeah, yeah. 25:26.30 Greg I Kind of had a little bit different experience because I actually play all the games on steam like my desktop because I I actually don't enjoy mobile gaming that much for various reasons or so like so whenever given choice I a choice I play off the phone and if possible. Um. So I played everything on Steam I still felt the game did a great job immersion I didn't really had that Problem. It's like it be a problem. The problem was like you because like even though I'm playing a phone game on a computer I still felt I still felt that connection sense. Maybe I would have felt a deeper but deeper if I was playing on the phone That's really on the phone. That's great point that youve bread that you bring up like I said before you know I just prefer you know the bigger screen. Um, you know the keyboard mouse to be able to use Etc. You know I just prefer the interface of the computer better but like suppose the phone. The game's credit I still felt a good sense for me, you know like I still felt like um ah ah the ah the interface The control was everything else still felt very comfortable comfortable to me the fact that I was controlling somebody with a phone as opposed to actually throwing the phone itself in my mind in my mind that didn't. 26:33.22 Greg In my mind that didn't matter to me I still felt you know I still felt you know I was like you know like like a very good ah interface. You can tell the game is designed for mobile first because of everything that you guys have mentioned up and also because the fact these games are short. We haven't talked about that yet. But you know, but but you but but you know mobile games tend to be. 26:51.44 Greg And even Square side of the way. So Even though the gains were mobile were mobile first then ported to good then then ported it later on the process I The I thought at least still let len it out very well to playing like a playing well at computer that said, maybe maybe I would have gotten a bit more of it if I had been able torate on the phone I don't Know. Um, you know, maybe Ill try you know maybe I tried to find interface at some point in the future but I still felt the sense of a mirror of immersion with it. 27:20.79 Jala-chan Yeah I will say that ah one of the things is that on the title screen or right before the title screen they say it's best played with headphones and I kind of think that that is true like I played it with it with the sound turned off for a little bit except during the cutscenes and then I. Tried it on speaker and that was okay, but like when I had the headphones in it really was what drew me in to where like when they do some of the stuff that they do that is kind of startling or creepy. You know, um it it. Draws your eye and draws your attention better when you have that direct interface of this you know phone in your hand. Maybe it's dark and you're playing in bed or something and then like you've got the headphones on so it's right in your ear you know so it feels closer and and everything and more personal. 28:11.70 Jala-chan But that's just my own opinion on that like just from how I played. 28:13.76 Still Loading No I agree with you on that I think the headphones specifically add a lot of immersion and the the reason why I thought playing on the phone at least helped for me personally was that when you're especially in the moments of the game when you're juggling multiple different text message chains or Dms on different social media apps. It. Felt very much like when maybe it's not always a good feeling depending on your past but like on personal history but like it feels like you're in the middle of a friend argument and you're the peacekeeper just trying to keep the piece with like 5 different chains going on at once. 28:48.93 Still Loading Um, and doing it on your phone I felt like I was back doing that in you know in high school or college or something and I'm just like oh God Why do I have to deal with this garbage right now. Ah and it wasn't enough to like be fully. 29:04.39 Still Loading Like you know, bring back painful memories but it was enough to remind me of a similar sensation and with the headphone things that you're mentioning Jaa there is so many moments where I would be playing I was playing this mostly out on my lunch breaks at work and I would be sitting in the break room and you would hear a knock knock knock and I'm like what the hell is that and it's the game. 29:24.19 Still Loading It would freak me out or like little tiny like scurries like people like footsteps running from behind you. The sound design was pretty decent in this where you know they were able to design the sound to make it feel like it's coming from behind you or in different directions. 29:39.21 Greg Yeah, the sound design for this game likes games is great I definitely agree like with the headphones headphones fighting being a thing ah and you write up a great point there a moment ago I wonder maybe if our age also like also but also influences our our perception perception of this a bit because I'm always up to the point where I only had a smartphone. My first smartphone I got have like maybe like six seven years ago so I don't have like my history of phone which is with mobile phones budget but but the department but plays much more limited I don't I don't don't have any that background to go with so I kind of wanted to maybe make kind of want to maybe our history of gaming. Ah, and or how much we use or like just like mobile phone. They also boun the colors I mean is somebody's perception flight these games. 30:18.86 Jala-chan Oh for sure because um, like even now sometimes it's always when I'm recording a podcast that like 7000000 people want my attention at 1 time and my phone is going off and I'm like trying to read my notes off my phone but then I'm like trying to flick all these messages away and stuffing. 30:35.89 Jala-chan People are messaging me like off the hook or calling me and I'm like I'm on a podcast. Ah you know so um, in in the game does that too where like you'll be trying to research something and then you'll get a phone call and it'll just come up with this really abrasive ring and then somebody's yelling at you and you're like what the hell you know. 30:52.90 Greg Ah, especially the first game. 30:55.20 Jala-chan Ah, so um, but like it it really simulates like ah, a real feeling of having that cell phone and having those interactions with people and yeah I Do believe that it is kind of ah skewed towards a younger audience who maybe has had some more time. Using all those those different chat apps and everything at the same time on their phone while doing other things and so On. So. 31:15.66 Still Loading Well I mean you're not I'm not that far different from you I didn't really get my first smart smartphone till maybe ten years ago which would have no, not even I was wait with 2013? Yeah I would have had a smartphone by then I don't think I got a smartphone till like 2012 which by that point it was like the iphone 4 something like that. And in high school I didn't really I didn't have a smartphone that they weren't out when I was in high school but I do I still remember text message chains just trying to keep the piece to between like 6 different parties I'm just like I don't feel like dealing with this and with yup yeah. 31:44.86 Jala-chan Oh god with those little flip phones and trying to like hit the button 7 times to get the right letter god ok. 31:53.47 Still Loading I was a master at t nine man I was so good at t nine I also remember I had I was able to log on to Aol instant messenger through my phone and you would just text messages through to Aol like through that so I would have. Like aim chats but it would all be sent through text message. 32:11.69 Jala-chan You were the one in the class that had the t I whatever count calculator and was doing all that crap with it too weren't you no okay, not 1 of those technical ways. Yeah. 32:19.40 Still Loading No definitely not I'm not that I was not that technically so I was the kid I was the kid though at least in my I remember my senior english class where I I don't know why I was able to do this I don't think I could repeat this ever where i. I guess it was the class was too easy for mys I don't mean that sounds like a brig I don't mean it that way because english I'm awful in english my grammar's shit. It's I probably should have paid more attention regardless but like we'd be covering some type of book that we were reading and she's asking about the themes and all this other stuff my teacher but I would just. Lay down I would basically be asleep but you know how like when you can't fully fall asleep in class. So you're kind of in and out. You're not fully 100 % passed out so as I would go in and out of consciousness I would hear a question that I knew the answer to and I would just ah bolt up from like. Completely laying down like practically asleep raise my hand and I would answer she goes that's correct and then I would go right back down and so I never got shit for it because I would answer questions from them in the midst of sleepy. 33:27.93 Jala-chan That's great. So circling back to the game. The game mechanics. Um, so this check text messages you get a bunch of text messages while they stop at a certain point. 33:39.31 Jala-chan Because the game is waiting for you to reply and some of those replies like you have um, multiple choice replies that you can pick from. You cannot free text your own reply. Um, which is actually kind of a good thing whenever you have the text parsing that can kind of become a nightmare. Um. 33:56.40 Jala-chan But anyway some of the responses that you have especially later in the game or games are on a timer and if you miss your window. You don't get to reply so you need to read really fast and hit the button really fast or else you'll miss your chance to say something and sometimes that can give you a totally different ending. So um, you know like that's something to be aware of usually you have more leisure but at certain tense moments of the game. You do not and it is on a timer and you have to you know, be quick so in semiacra you additionally have to unscrample corrupted messages by selecting the proper word order. Ah, these will be like scrambled messages that are in your your text message field. You also have to unscramble photos by working through a puzzle to match the pieces up in the correct sequence and this is hard for me to describe. Um I don't know if either 1 of you has a good way to describe how that works where it's like um. You get a certain. It's a square image. There's a certain number of square of tiles inside that form the image some of those tiles ah in each of the different options that you can select from have you know filled in blanks. 35:07.32 Jala-chan And then have scrambled blanks which will take away anything that's in that spot. So like there's kind of a give and take going and you have to get the right sequence in order to make the entire picture without deleting stuff I don't know if I'm making any sense to anybody who doesn't know. 35:23.64 Greg No, that's a bit that's the best description for that I can come up myself. It's it works better. It works better than sounds. But it's still clunky. They did it way that after the first game which I'm glad of because it was pain of the asked work I thought but um, but. But yeah, that's a but yeah, that's ah, that's a best description I could have but come up with ja or so. 35:43.23 Still Loading Well, that was where you know you would it would you would click on a row and would flip everything in the row right? like it would flip all the tiles if I'm remembering correctly and it would just flip to the opposite am I thinking of those same game or am I thinking of something else. 35:56.62 Jala-chan Um, it's it's got um, some tiles that are filled in and some tiles that are scrambled that will ah remove anything that's already put in that spot. Um, at the same time. So like if you have. The upper left corner filled in and then you click on something that fills in the middle of your your picture but it has a scramble box in the upper left corner. It will remove what's in the upper left corner and leave a hole there if you hit that that one next. So like it's all about sequencing. And making sure that you get like all of everything filled in without taking away what you've already put down. It's hard to talk about. Ah. 36:37.56 Still Loading Yes, and there there is a one that you could like do all from from what I remember it was like you There was different. You know you could select to flip the different rows and columns or the the one diagonal going from the bottom left to the top right. 36:40.85 Greg It is. Yeah yeah. 36:55.00 Still Loading And that solved most of the puzzles am I thinking of the right I This is the same game. We're talking about right? the same minigame in this I'm maybe I'm. 37:03.49 Jala-chan Um, maybe I don't know I don't know because like the thing is is that I might have also played a different game that had that feature. That you also played and so I don't know if if it was this I recently played through um you know to prep for this episode but I don't remember there being any. 37:21.45 Greg Know that sounds right? The problem the part of the problem with us I remembering is that remembering things that each game does if the um um Lee game. The fair each game The series does different mini puzzles. Nothing carries over from game to game so it could be hard like it be. 37:32.22 Jala-chan Yeah. 37:37.10 Greg Like be a heart and member in our defense I can be a bit hard to remember is that puzzle in this game or how do they exactly have that puzzle work or there up like that because he kept because they kept tinkering experimenting with it to try to um you try to get the games fresh I think um you as they you know it was developing like game to game. So um. 37:54.80 Jala-chan Yeah, yeah, so those are those are primarily like the gaming elements the gameplay elements in the first game There's some unscrambling word order stuff and some picture puzzle stuff. Let's just leave it at that picture puzzles. Um, mechanically in pipe dreams. There's again the text messaging there's a limited amount of searching around that you really have to do. It's mostly focused on doing a free with ads mobile game inside the game that's called flap pee bird and it's a bird that you have to ah you know, keep in the air but also get. 38:29.17 Jala-chan Through a bunch of little like increasingly difficult narrow passageways and um, you know it kind of like has ah a lumpy hop so you have to very gingerly tap the screen this works a lot better on mobile than it does on Steam I would imagine because. 38:45.79 Jala-chan Like the intensity with which you tap the screen changes how high the flappy bird will jump So like I think this actually works better on mobile than it does does it? okay. 38:54.19 Greg Yeah, it was fine on steam but I got frustrated. It probably does work better in the phone though I think you're right because I said be gb. We said the the games were designed from phone phone first or's like um I just found the game to be very good I very complicated look after a while. So I just. So suicide like gave up on it. 39:15.60 Jala-chan Yeah, well I will say like the the flappy bird game that's inside the game that you end up having to play a lot. Um is first off like you can watch ads to get eggs which are your basically your pay to win. And so you can watch unlimited ads to gain enough eggs to comfortably do this and just basically skip through or you know die and move on down the road and you can do that and I would recommend that if it is frustrating because it really is that like quarter munching forcing you to watch ads thing but the ads until they. 39:49.17 Jala-chan Start getting really repetitive are very funny, very funny. They are making fun of all of the shovelware and the the free to you know freemium games and stuff like that and it is so funny because they're like basically after these games came out like. 39:52.40 Greg They are Yeah, they're great. 40:08.40 Jala-chan Mobile games have been kind of tanking and in in shifting direction and doing a bunch of like loot boxy gotcha stuff ever since and it's like even if those gotcha games might be fun like I don't want to engage with them I engage with fire emblem Heroes I engage with fire emblem Heroes for a while and I'm glad that my phone no longer. 40:21.88 Still Loading Um, freemium. 40:27.64 Jala-chan Plays that game. It will not allow me to play it. Um, that's a good thing So um, like you know this this game The pipe dreams game is like really cribbon on that and making fun of it in a way that is very satisfying to me. It's in you. You can tell that all the people that are in those ads are just literally the devs. 40:47.92 Jala-chan It's great. Yeah, yeah, so in Semiacbra two your puzzles primarily consist of piecing together clues in social media app posts and emails so attention to detail is important there where there's just like. 40:48.66 Still Loading Um, just having the best time. 41:03.24 Jala-chan Slight little things that you have to notice and piece together to get like your answer to your puzzles and in SIMULACRA three. It's really similar to the second game but there is like there are some interesting new apps and developments like in and SIMULACRA 3 you have a location-based. App that has locations on it that you can uncover over time. It also has kind of like a next door or like a yelp kind of thing but it's it's like a. 41:35.82 Jala-chan It's like um, a a Twitter or something but location based and when I talked about this on the level they were like you mean foursquare and I'm like I don't know what foursquare is if they're like well I was there for 2 minutes but that you know that was essentially what foursquare was so if you know what foursquare is good on you if you don't. 41:52.85 Jala-chan You know it's it's basically like location-based Twitter where people can post things and comment on posts and you know all of this other stuff. But it's all based on those locations and you get clues from that. Um, and of course the locations. Are important for you to uncover new characters or new information that kind of thing. There's also a cool mechanic where you get to operate security cameras in a house and there's like a whole cool escape sequence that we won't talk about at this point because that's super spoilery. 42:26.51 Jala-chan But like there's some cool things that they're doing that are very different and they don't have um the same emphasis on unscrambling puzzles that way like that you have puzzles but they're different the way that they Work. It's more about finding information remembering that information and then inputting it. In the correct sequence or something um, still research based but a little bit different like it feels less gamified even if it is still gamified if that makes sense because it's like there's there's a code words that you need and you have to get the right sequence to unlock the next part of a thing. 43:05.77 Jala-chan And you get that from looking at this one web page and and so on so like you know it's it feels more ah believable I Guess than the way that the puzzles work in the prior titles which is just gamification. 43:21.50 Greg Yeah I'd agree with all that also I think that ah the the biggest the biggest theme with of puzzles with like these games as already mentioned previously is observation you you they need good observation skills to be able to figure things out in these games because it's like. Ah, up a lot of puzzles. We have a lot of positive require you going to upite to our page trying to find trying to find Hidden Hidden clue a word a picture whatever remembering it I remember I remembering it one advantage be playing this on playings on on your computer where I took pictures of things on the phone but pictures of things on the screen that I want to remember. Like I couldn't remember because my memory my trigger memory can be crouching time. So it's like there's so so so it's like I'm trying fair. So so on so much when I trying to favorite but figure out puzzles. Um I'll take a picture of this take a picture of that whatever and then look like and look my phone later on reverse my memory as to what as way as it as what like what sequence was so. Observation skills are very important because you spend a lot of time obscure hunting trying to find friend of find okay wasn't over here was it over there. We're a first where um, other way I see this at the third game I think did away with that a little bit to make it a bit easier. We can. So we can get into that but by later on but it's like but it's like but it's like yeah observation skills and remembering short-term things are all very important things things these games and my skills most areas are not the best of the world. So I think it's um so I like so I did struggle in in a few areas. So I did a few areas I had to look up. 44:54.31 Greg To look up help a few times like in all the games less. So the third game the game of reasons we talking about later on but I definitely, but that's a feeling of me and not a filming of the games in the themselves because I thought the games themselves the most part did the puzzles very well. But somebody like me who's not who nothing most observant irriiated game sometimes I mean sometimes their problems problems with Trump flight friend remember things. Um, they definitely made. Um, it definitely emphasized for me. Why why don't play a lot of puzzle games because honestly I suck ah a puzzle of games. So. 45:26.43 Jala-chan So you feel you feel him. 45:29.34 Still Loading I I feel you oh sorry, go ahead? Ah um I I feel similar to you man where I'm not the best with Observation. So Simul Locker two I had a really hard time with and actually real quick. Side note I looked up I. Looked up the video quick for those puzzles and simulac are wrong I was or sim you lock for a one and I was wrong. I was thinking of a different puzzle game I don't know which anymore. But ah the it was. It had nothing to do with diagonals. Ah I won't rehash it but I'm just letting you know I was a little bit off with that anyway. 46:00.42 Jala-chan Yeah I was yeah I was like I I don't remember there being a flipping like but well the thing is is that it maybe it was to the moon because I also played it and I played to the moon and I. 46:04.53 Still Loading Um I I'm so confused with where I saw this from now I swear there was one of these games ahead flipping. 46:18.80 Still Loading That's what it was oh my God That's what it was I'm in it. Yeah, that's what it was. It was to the moon. That's what I got to confuse with. Thank you, You mystery solved? Yes, what did I Well what? Ah so what I was going to say was with. 46:21.17 Jala-chan There you go because like I saw it too. What did I tell you I didn't like the gamification in that one but but anyway. 46:35.36 Still Loading With this. Ah my observation skills aren't the greatest so SIMULACRA two I had a hard time with but there was a couple moments where I I agree with you Greg where I felt like it was more me failing than the game when I would look up stuff. There was one like maybe 1 time where I'm like well this is a little bit. 46:53.28 Greg I think I know the way you're talking about too. Yes. 46:54.19 Still Loading Too far buried like there is some of the puzzles where you would have to yeah you would have to find like a key detail about an individual to get them to answer specifically answer something specifically and you would have to like dig through social media and it would be like. This one I Remember there was one where I thought I answered it correctly and then I found out I Forget the exact one but I thought I answered it correctly when we find out I had to phrase it slightly differently once again with kind of like the syntax type of thing but that that was so few and far between in these games and ah. 47:28.62 Still Loading Pipe dreams. There's there was very little issues that pipe dreams is a very direct straightforward game by comparison. Um, but like 2 2 is fun just because there are so many different options for how you can solve the puzzles. 47:39.73 Jala-chan Yeah, yeah. 47:40.38 Greg Yeah, one of the things I really liked about seem like a 3 which I think maybe which I think maybe might be debate about some people depending upon how much like puzzles is that sim like a 3 felt like the puzzles puzzle that one like were bit like a bit lesser but and us a bit easier I didn't show up as much sure. Like I I didn't struggle with as much in that game I did as it did like me other the games. So. 48:00.10 Jala-chan So simulac with threes puzzles are just like the things that you need to get the information are not like buried very like because you're not going through. 48:13.65 Jala-chan You're not generally going through social media apps and if you are it's like the 1 thing that has the locations and stuff in it. That's the only one that you're digging through other than the web browser and then when you're going through there. It's not very far down. You know, like it's it's not real hard to get to the stuff that you need to get to and. 48:32.96 Jala-chan In that way like it's not that the puzzles are are actually very much different. It's just that the information is a little bit easier to get to. 48:41.48 Greg Yeah, because I only had to look up for help for help that game once compared to maybe like 3 or 4 times like the other the games. So ah, definitely I did um I um so I think you're I think you're I think you're on the nose jaw like I'm describing it that way. 48:56.28 Jala-chan Yeah, yeah, so I do want to shift ah from the gameplay over to talking about the performances visuals and so on. Um, so the first game in particular features some kind of awkward english which along the way along with like the hammi acting. By particularly the guy who plays Greg in the first game. Yes, there's a character named Greg we're not trying to confuse everybody. Um, anyway though that that game was criticized for you know like some of the stuff having to do with that specifically. Um. 49:29.45 Jala-chan Even though people overall liked the premise and the execution. So you know like that was something that they took to heart so by the time they made pipe dreams. They'd worked to improve this and by 2 the writing sounded significantly more like native english so pipe dream features also a lot of fake ads which we mentioned. They are intentionally overacted and poorly acted and yes, again, probably the dev team doing it. It's very fun to watch that that game was hilarious to me. The first time I watched it but and played through it. So um, in all of these games. There's also glitches. 50:05.60 Jala-chan That will warp photos in the screen integrity and indicate tampering by the malevolent force that you know you're trying to fight against and there are sometimes jump scares every once in a while in particular, it's I think it's the first one only that has the jump scares. Um, but there's. 50:16.91 Greg Especially the first game. Yeah, they got me once! 50:24.72 Jala-chan Yeah I was going to say there's 1 maybe 2 it's not ah, gratuitous. There's there's 1 or 2 where different things will flash on the screen and or there's creepy sounds or changes to the sound and and like Josh mentioned there are different points where it'll have different sound effects like. In the game as you listen to it if you have headphones on to listen to it. Um, that aren't are are kind of ampient like they're there and they make you question whether or not that's the game you know, but um, yeah, they put you on. 50:52.65 Still Loading They put you on edge a little bit. 50:55.77 Jala-chan Edge a little bit but without actually doing anything to you or or having anything weird happen. So um, there is really limited music in 1 there's only the opening SIMULACRA theme which is creepy in digital and good and in pipe dreams. There is the fla pee bird track as well. And and 2 there are some music tracks on Maya's phone that you can listen to the music is limited because again this is a found phone game and you don't just have music going all the time while you're messing with your phone. So um, you know that just kind of squares its circles if you will. 51:31.85 Jala-chan So Greg ah you had something else to say about simulac with 3 51:35.79 Greg Yeah, couple of things about simulacica 3 so ah, sound like sound design like and sound video design to like a 3 instead has like these long audio files you can listen to instead which are like which are like recordings that people made of whatnot. Um, that could be like very long recording. Maybe like maybe like five ten minutes percent of them. So that's a um, yeah yeah, that's a very different design change. Um and also seem like a 3 um I don't know exactly why this was but I kind of get the impression sim like a 3 the the game overall all felt it that. 51:55.32 Still Loading Oh wow. 52:10.56 Greg The um to the game overall like thought a bit like felt a bit more a rush to me and or they were on it. Um, you know they were on a tighter budget because there's not as many people people acting in acting the F Andbs um, and there's not as many FAndV scenes in that game as there are in the previous games. So. Definitely I Definitely seems like a reduced time and or a budget for a budget issue. There. 52:32.62 Jala-chan So what I'll add to that is that SIMULACRA 2 was released in 2020 SIMULACRA three was released in 2022 pandemic was going on when they were working on SIMULACRA 3 So um, yeah, like I feel. 52:43.80 Still Loading That is a very good point. That's a very good point. 52:49.20 Jala-chan Like there's actually like a fair amount of Fmv in SIMULACRA 3 um it does have a limited cast. There's basically 2 people that you see or actually 3 I guess, 3 people that you see. 53:05.98 Jala-chan Acting you know and in any of the Fmb scenes where you get anything but definitely it. It doesn't have as much as 2 because 2 you have detective marillo and you have all the different people and so on you like it had a really big cast but it was doing it was doing a different thing than what they were doing with SIMULACRA three like. 53:24.84 Jala-chan I think it would have been too much if they had added a whole bunch of Fmv. Um, the way that the audio logs work out so like basically we we will get to the the narrative spoiler free narratives for this and then we'll hit the spoiler wall but in 3 you have the phone of a guy who. Disappeared who is trying to uncover this mystery and he says everything that you need is in the phone and you unlock these audio logs where it's just him talking and like piecing together. What's happening as it's going on and like honestly like I don't need that to be a video of him sitting in a room rocking back and forth telling me these things you know like an audio log would be more. It would be more in line with what he would actually do if he's trying to just keep a record of what's going on. So. 54:16.64 Jala-chan Anyway, like that that's just my own opinion there. But ah, that being the case. Let's kind of ah slide into talking about what these games spoiler free summaries are I'm going to throw to Josh Josh you tell us what is the spoiler free summary of semullara. 54:34.18 Still Loading Ah, well in SIMULACRA the player finds a lost mobile phone that belonged to a person named Ana attempting to access the phone through the lock screen causes the phone to suddenly crackle with the distorted screen showing help me. The phone continues to do things on its own leading to a video of a scared honor begging whoever is watching not to come after her in order to find out what happened Ana the goal for the player is to collect all the information possible and try to find the 1 responsible for her disappearance. 55:03.34 Jala-chan Right? right? So this is kind of like almost word for word. What was going on with Sarah is missing except Sarah is missing has a lot less production behind it. 55:34.43 Still Loading I'm actually surprised how much that the fmv stuff was criticized so much I'm not saying it's great I'm not saying the acting is good and like you said Jala, there's some awkward english going on in the express specifically in this first one. But. Considering this is an indie studio I don't know for maybe I guess maybe that's why I'm not ah you know a professional game reviewer or game journalist or anything like that. But I would be cutting the studio some slack considering it's their first game. You know like I don't know I think it's for what this is. It's pretty well done. 56:07.81 Still Loading Ah, even the second one ah SIMULACRA two I was blown away by the improvements in the advancements between the first 2 like there is so much more production valley ah valley sorry value. Um, there is so much more production value in the second game like the. 56:12.92 Greg Um, yeah, agree with you 100% yeah 56:24.49 Still Loading There's a whole thing with you know the detective or the the guy on the police force that you interact with a whole bunch which I won't go into too much more just in case I get into Spoiler territories or territory. But there is. There's lots of videos of him and he's. Pretty funny as he makes he'll accidentally like butt dial you and like say awkward things over the phone and stuff like that like just in general I was very impressed by the overall like visual and sound design of this game. Not only with the fmv stuff but just the the way that it immerses you into it and a lot of the videos. 56:57.74 Still Loading Um, it. It definitely feels acted. It doesn't feel very natural but I'm still willing to cut the company slack considering that they're making these games in english when it's not. You know they're not from. North America like it feels like it's a a game design for a north american audience. Maybe I don't know if I'm I'm a do you guys feel like I'm off with that. 57:20.13 Greg No I grew that high percent. Um, you know I don't know these games were available in Malaysia I assume they were um, but um, you know I really don't know about that but the acting was the acting never bothered me I mean like yeah the the yeah the acting the the act is a bit handy. And the first through the first 2 games the in english in the in the english is a little bit rough but that's fine because like I said the reasons for the reason that you just touched upon and I thought by 2 and 3 they got much better in both areas. Ah to the point where the point where I thought 3 felt like actually like a native ah a native native ah native ah like native american american-made game. Um, you know you know you know that is to say the game if thank that if that game felt like it could have been developed by an english studio as well as like a malaysian studio because the quality of the quality was still good by that point. 58:08.54 Jala-chan So ah I just have to say 1 line. Okay, um, the the actor for Greg is real is the real one. What the fuck is going on or however he says it I'm going to have to see if ah Dave can get that that line. It's so. 58:28.52 Jala-chan Oh my god like every time I listen to it I'm like I just need this as an a sound clip on my phone so I can just like send it to people no prompting because it's wow. It's got like you want to talk about hand acting that was like turned up to 50 I don't know like um, but. That said, like as Josh said you know this is an indie studio I don't personally you know count it against them that they have the hammi acting and this that and the other I mean like it's fine. It makes me giggle in the first game because some of it is you know, really kind of bad but like it definitely marketly improves. With each individual installment of the game and um, you know by the time you get to simulac or 3 again that production value the way Greg said is so much higher and um so you know like I I don't have a problem with you know rough english or you know like um. 59:25.26 Jala-chan Non-native Speaker English or anything like that I don't have a problem with hammy acting none of that because like okay if you're a fan of like horror stuff. You probably like some cheese all right just saying just saying So I mean you know and they listen to the feedback that they received from folks. 59:34.58 Greg Yeah, true. 59:44.57 Jala-chan You know? So um I like simulac for one because it is um like Sarah is missing is the the kind of footnote that began the whole thing. It's it's kind of like the rough draft right? So when they got to SIMULACRA they were doing. 01:00:03.92 Jala-chan Something really cool and it was the first time they were trying it and you know they didn't know how it was going to go but like they did some really neat stuff but they can't pull the same trick again, you know they can't do those jump scares the same way. So by the time they do SIMULACRA 2 01:00:20.34 Jala-chan There's some points where it looks like they might have been tried to be a jump skier but it's not going to hit me the same way because I played Simulac row 1 already you know and that kind of thing so like they try to change it up a little bit when they do pipe dreams. It's a little bit different when they do um simul lock we' 2 it's a little bit different when they go to 3 it's definitely different. You know? and so you have to kind of be on board for like the innovative ways that in which they're trying to surprise you in a new fashion as they go through and keep you know developing and iterating on their theme. So. 01:00:57.65 Still Loading And with ah sorry ah and with the to bring since I kind of took us off of the spoiler free summary portion of the or the the summary portion of this to bring it back. The reason I wanted to bring up all the performances is because. When you're looking at the videos of Ana like with the you know the distorted screen saying help me and the video of her being scared. It felt pretty believable to me or believable enough at the very least like yeah. 01:01:19.95 Greg Yeah, honest performance is great but she did a great job at the games you. 01:01:22.76 Jala-chan Yeah, yeah, yeah for sure. So let's go ahead and sidle on to the spoiler free summary of pipe dreams Greg do you want to tell us about pipe dreams. 01:01:38.84 Greg Sure? ah, the player's friend Teddy is obsessed with a mobile game called flat pea bird and ropes you into play setting get free a switch the currency in the game. He's behaving very oddly and switches between extreme aggression as usual from the south and you find out that he's been having a streak of bad luck which like. Which led him to makes them unfortunate choices. 01:01:59.46 Jala-chan You're right right? And so again, um, this this episode kind of ties into what we talked about in the internet and identity episode which I will I will talk about in more detail. Ah how they they tie in post-s spoiler wall. But for now just put a pin in that and just ah think about mental health and people's general health and like their relationship with devices because that's like an ongoing thing so I will go ahead and give the spoiler free summary for SIMULACRA 2 so a popular influencer named Maya Crane has been found dead. And the detective in charge of the investigation suspects foul play by 1 of her 3 fellow influencer friends you play as either a tabloid reporter or a skeptical detective assisting him in the case without the approval of the department. It's your job to use Maya's phone to figure out who is responsible for her death. And what happened is there are signs that there may be another victim soon and that one is probably the most complicated of all of the games including 3 Josh 01:03:04.85 Still Loading I Got to ask which did you guys choose for your which did you play as a detective or did you play as the tabloid reporter. 01:03:13.40 Greg I was the detective. 01:03:13.96 Jala-chan I was a tabloid reporter. 01:03:17.51 Still Loading I was all I was a detective Greg and I man were the 2 detectives. So Jala is the the lone tabloid reporter. 01:03:22.74 Jala-chan But you will tell me that they're not ah good at observing anything and they want to be detectives. Okay folks right? It's roleplaying. That's right, You're not rolling the character that is like you correct. 01:03:32.26 Still Loading Wishful thinking wishful thinking I'm trying to it's role-playing Jala I'm trying to be better. 01:03:39.21 Jala-chan Josh. so so yeah um it doesn't actually influence your game at all the way which 1 you pick. It's just to kind of give you ah a you know a sense of role playing at you know at oh I'm a detective I need to do this because I'm a detective or oh. 01:03:58.76 Jala-chan I'm a reporter I need to find out the truth because that's what I do you know. 01:04:03.20 Greg There's There's some slight images in site slight slights like your text fine text and up abuse seems though right I thought. 01:04:07.14 Jala-chan Not that I saw no I mean other than like detective Mario saying oh you're a reporter right? You know or whatever like that's that's it like that's that's the only time it ever makes a difference so because like I think later on in the game when you. 01:04:25.18 Jala-chan If you get uncovered by the friends of maya that you are trying to talk to. They're just like oh you're working with the detective or whatever like they don't refer to what you are so so yeah and ah, finally to wrap us up with this spoiler free section. Let's talk about SIMULACRA 3 01:04:45.20 Jala-chan So this is straight off of the steam page I'm just going to read you what they put there. But once charming town town of Stone Creek has seen better days. People are vanishing into thin air leaving nothing behind but strange symbols where they were last seen with the police baffled in the populace terrified rumors swirl that it is the doing of the Beldam. 01:05:04.83 Jala-chan The ghost of the witch that once haunted the streets of Stone Creek you are the intern at the local paper tasked with assisting the town star journalist Ruby Myers on her investigation into the disappearances. Your only lead is the phone of the missing Paul Castillo ah so software developer and amateur historian of the town 1 of ruby's sources while Ruby does the legwork your job is to hack into Paul's phone for any clues left behind new apps exciting features and fresh terror await those who delve into the darkest corners of the digital realms. As you investigate the belium of Stone Creek now I will say to me. The third game is the least scary even though there's like more kind of horror movie slash horror game stuff mechanically that we'll talk about. 01:05:54.41 Greg Yeah, agree with that. 01:05:57.81 Jala-chan Like it's weird because it's it's engaging more with like tropes of horror media. But it's not as scary to me. Ah, we will will talk about that post spoiler wall but before we get there any wrap of thoughts that you guys have about SIMULACRA series. 01:06:16.72 Jala-chan Ah, the games individually would you recommend them to a particular type of person. Ah you know which one do you like best that sort of thing give us some some quick wrap on the non-s spoiler part Greg you first. 01:06:31.98 Greg Um, what a follow your earlier point Joe about how they um, the developers obviously have is how obviously had to change up how to change up what they were doing each game to try to each game. keep it fun to keep it fresh you know they're trying to get the same formula going but they also. Um, you all the games use other games you use same engine the same ah same mmo. Whatever but they but they did try to mix things up ah like and each like each game and but I appreciate that I think it. But um I think I'm um I think um I think um so I think for the most part that worked very well. And also while the games kept the overall the developers clearly had a theme that they wanted that they want to drive home which you can tell in each game but I also really like how each game has a different overriding. Um, um, the overriding primary theme ah present present that game. Which like you know like you know, like like you mentioned earlier Joe like about how um you like like online gaming influencers or horror tropes whatever so there's a primary theme each game and also secondary theme to developers. Also the developers also trying to keep constant constants in the background for all the games but but. Um, so I like that. Um each game I think is fine. Danone. You start making have fun with the oh you have the but phone with each game. But I think I think that ah but I think that the best experience you are recommended to play all 4 games because I think that they do make them more complete picture and a picture and you get more driven out of things that way. 01:07:59.33 Greg And these games are fairly short as as we mentioned previously depending upon your puzzle skills you like games about 3 or 4 hours so these are notpikes a pretty bite size chunk games to play which really helps for busy people are in their data and they um like the day to life like life like whatnot. Um. I really enjoyed like all the games I thought my personal favorite like the first game I thought the thirds the weakest but I still like all the games like overall and I thought these developers as as mentioned, we previously did a very great job with what they're trying to do with presentation and everything and whatnot and. And so I'm really looking forward to looking forward you with this company like like is mess like this next I wish more companies would do games like this I really I'm sorry this to this my first exposure to like phone detective style games like this and I've never seen this before and I haven't haven't seen so many other examples of this. Joll did point out to be a couple other examples. But I thought this is this is a genre that's pretty fun. um um I really enjoyed I really enjoyed that there these games what they were and I and you know and so for the games. Ah this type kit came out the phone detective style. Whatever ah do I'd be all over that stuff because I really like um because I thought that. Like we're unique and engaging and and engaging for the reasons I thought for the reason as I had previously. So yeah, yeah, these teams these games definitely give a thumbs to thumbs up from me I may disagree with some of the themes and or ideas that their developers are here are going after we we'll get to that spoiler section. But. 01:09:31.62 Greg Overall overall I thought these games they thought these games like are very fun, very well, very well developed and it developed and I'm glad Joe ah pointing before them. The first place st step as said before I definitely want more like I definitely want more games like this type. 01:09:46.81 Jala-chan Yeah, and you know, ah everybody who listens to this show and has listened to the level already knows that I'm real into like detective games adventure games you know visual novel type games horror games. All of these things so this was absolutely up my alley and I had to. Absolutely get this ah for myself. But some Josh what about you? What do you think about this series. Ah, what was your favorite 1 would you recommend it to somebody what type of person, etc, etc. 01:10:17.88 Still Loading I'm actually with Greg on this where I like the first one the most out of the I didn't I just a guest ah heads up for the listeners I did not get around to spin simulaca three feel free to cut that out if you want to, but ah I but I enjoyed the first one a ton. 01:10:29.84 Jala-chan Um, it's fine. 01:10:35.53 Still Loading Um, for my so who would I recommend it to the problem is that this game is I Guess people who like puzzle games. You don't have to necessarily like horror games to enjoy this because I'll be honest I'm not a horror fan I don't like being scared I'm a scaredy boy I get freaked out really easily. But this was just the right level of creepiness and putting me on edge. It was. It was just good enough. Ah what I like about the type of gameplay this detective found phone puzzle game is it scratched an itch that I forgot I had have either of you ever played. 01:11:11.17 Jala-chan No no. 01:11:11.59 Still Loading Paper trail from infamous second sun or heard of it so without infamous second son it was you know game. It was a game on the PS four it was the third technically yeah third full game because there's a dlc in on the PS 3 but the third true game. 01:11:31.47 Still Loading In the infamous series and there is a dlc section added to it called paper trail where what it was is that in Infamous. It's a bunch of people with superpowers I won't spoil anything else with that. But you meet someone who has like their super powers like they can. Like conjure paper and do like origami and stuff like that and so you chase after them and ah you have to follow their literal paper trail. But what was cool about it. Is that in order to track this person down you actually had to do stuff outside of the game on the on the console on like your home computer or phone where you would go to another website. It was all set up by Insomniac but you would actually you know you click like forgot password and then you would access this person's email. And you would be able or you would know you forgot password then you have to answer security questions based off of the hints that you got in the game and so when you linked it all Up. You're doing this kind of like detective game through your computer. That interacted with your game one. The PS four. It was really really cool and I really enjoyed it and so this game scratched that itch for me that I forgot I had because I had I did paper trial once like years ago and I loved it and being able to do something similar to this similar to that where you're. 01:12:52.72 Still Loading Kind of snooping through this person's phone trying to find them and trying to use find some of their personal information. So that way you can then help track them down and ultimately help them um or hopefully help them I should say depending on how which endings you get, but ah. It was really Fun. So I enjoyed this overall because I just like puzzle games I like detective games. Even if I'm not necessarily always the best at them I Still really enjoyed my time with this. 01:13:22.57 Jala-chan Yeah, yeah, so for me of course I already mentioned this is already up my alley I'm already going to like this anyway. Ah, ah, just because of by virtue of the type of game. It is and all of that. Um, but I. 01:13:38.74 Jala-chan I like this game I would recommend it to folks I again I kind of go with what you're saying Josh about people who like puzzle games would be able to play this and I know you were concerned when I said oh it's kind of like a horror ish game but it's a detective game. Don't worry. It's not really, that's scary. Yeah, like ah if you are worried if you are are somebody who does not like horror games this is doable neither Greg nor Josh likes horror games like they they are okay I think Greg you're one of the people who like you will watch somebody else like Cole play them. But you don't want to play them. You will watch somebody else. Do it though? yeah. 01:14:10.00 Greg Yeah, exactly. 01:14:14.27 Jala-chan Yeah, but um, this game is not too scary but it does have like more of what I would say like a psychological sort of horror thing going on more than it has like ah scary scary um jump scares or gore or any of that kind of junk. 01:14:30.99 Jala-chan Um, so it's it's kind of like the right kind of horror for me as well because I prefer psychological horror over anything else like I don't I'm not a jump scare person jump scares don't work on me. Um I've talked about that number number of times now. Um, but also like I don't like gore That's why what turned me off of res evil 7 um, because that is just the beginning of that is just gore fest and I'm like I don't need this in my life never mind goodbye and I'm not missing anything here and in whatever and. 01:15:03.48 Jala-chan You know I know Adam Bucceri who I mentioned at the beginning of the episode is going to listen to this and then he's going to at me and be like Jala Jala you've got to play. You're going to come on half to takes to talk about this game in particular or something he's going to find a way anyway, um, so yeah, ah this game I would recommend it to folks. 01:15:11.73 Still Loading How dare. 01:15:22.20 Jala-chan Ah, but like again, if as I mentioned the beginning. The first time I played this I had a bit of an issue. It kind of irritated me ah probably because of just all the number of things I was dealing with at the time. The first time I played it. It hit me a little bit wrong insofar as like the way that the story is told to you through primarily like. Chat messages and things like that like if you don't like getting chat messages and talking to people and things like that like this can probably feel real irritating to you? Um, so like just keep that in mind and like maybe watch a little bit of a let's play and see if it's it's your thing. Ah if you're scared about. Whether or not you might like it also pipe dreams is free so you can try that for sure or Sarah is missing is also free. Try one of those and see if you like that pipe dreams is not like the quote unquote true SIMULACRA experience because it's kind of like an interquel and it's. 01:16:19.90 Jala-chan Was released between 1 and 2 and it is also like not the full production. It's kind of like ah something they were working on to just like work on a few different things to see if they could improve it over the first game before they put all their money into two. Um It's fun I like it a lot It's very funny to me. But it's also not like the fully realized story that you get in the other games. So yeah, ah, we will erect a spoiler wall right here folks it is fully erect. 01:18:39.37 Jala-chan In SIMULACRA one so you start out your investigation by chatting with Greg not the Greg on the show Greg in the game who is on his ex-boyfriend. He is jealous, rude and has anger management issues. So like this is totally not our Greg here. Our Greg here is a sweetie. So what we're going to call him. We just call him jerkface. Okay. 01:18:58.63 Greg There are so few there are so few gregs video games. It's shame that almost every single Greg I know of is like bad in some way but and and this guy the prime example. Unfortunately so yeah. 01:19:12.72 Jala-chan I know how will we just call him jerk face from now on instead of Greg because I don't want confusion here. Okay so ah, jerkface quickly realizes that you're not on a and insists that you snoop through her phone to help him find her and you open up the dating app which is called spark in here. 01:19:29.50 Jala-chan And find that Ana's been talking to a guy named Taylor who also wants your help finding Anna you quickly find out from jerk face that Taylor is listed as a registered sex offender for peeing in a stairwell right about the time a mom and child were walking through. You can opt to believe his side of the story or give him hell and um. 01:19:49.21 Jala-chan 1 thing that I will put a pin in this and just mention real quick something that I learned pretty quickly in in replaying all of these back to back is that one of the through lines of the game is that to get the good ending. You have to trust people even if they seem kind of shady. You need to trust them and you need to like be nice to everybody. 01:20:11.10 Still Loading That was one of my few criticisms with it that I couldn't talk about in the pre-s spoiler wall just because I felt that it would have spoiled something obviously um, it feels like. You have to trust that everyone while ultimately they have flaws. They're ultimately going to do the right thing which I like that optimistic view of humanity. But I also think it makes a little less interesting of a game where while you just know that everyone's automatically. For the most part telling the truth if if they are lying. It's about something that's not really going to have a major impact because there's some clarification like when you find out Taylor is a registered registered sex offender. Your first thought is like oh what a piece of shit. He's a sex offender and then you find out what it actually was whether that's true or not maybe he's lying. But. Ah, and if if what he's saying is true and it's a misunderstanding. It's like okay, that's just bad lobby. Why would you pee in a stairwell but still that makes him more of kind of ah a bit of a douche than an actual like sex offender. You know so it's it's interesting. 01:21:21.85 Still Loading That they kind of want you to trust everyone in a game where I don't know to me when you're talking to people. You don't know online your general first point of thought should be like well don't give people too much information. You don't know them. 01:21:33.67 Jala-chan Right? And that's that's the thing for me to I keep get it like every time I played these games the very first time I played it I always got a bad end because I'm like all of you suck I hate everyone like I don't trust any of you you all are terrible. You know like. 01:21:48.83 Greg So I do agree of most of that. Definitely um I think that you know I you know I think that do I think that issue. Um I think that theme of like trusting humanity wine to believe people Etc is one of the primary themes that the developers want to drive home to us like all through this series. Um. 01:22:02.31 Jala-chan Yeah. 01:22:06.78 Greg Whether or not whether or not you agree with that or not depends upon your own take upon things. But um I know that you didn't play seem like a 3 They do kind of lessen out little bit in that game. Um, but yeah separate you have the most pride if I do agree of all that. 01:22:19.97 Still Loading Um, if if that's the case then I feel like they would have needed to pick a different way to express that because if they're trying to tell a story or tell something in the game. That's like you need to that We all need to trust each other more. I Personally can kind of get behind that because I'm a I'm a semi optimist I guess but like at the same time that was not what was really well relayed in the game. It didn't feel like that was what the main point of it was. 01:22:47.55 Jala-chan Right. 01:22:47.87 Greg I think maybe part of the problem may be the fact that this is that this is that is that this is a mobile 3 hour game sort of limited limited and how much and how much they can convey in that format. So they either had to not do it at all or drive you through a brick wall with it. 01:23:05.73 Greg So so I think developers just chose just just chose the brick wall option because they really want to get that point across. 01:23:12.20 Jala-chan Right? And you know like that that's kind of like ah of especially because this is couched in like you're a stranger who has this phone and then like you know in in some cases in order to get the good end. You have to deceive people and pretend to be somebody that you're not like Anna for example. 01:23:29.10 Jala-chan And like that's to get the good ending. You have to pretend that you're on a and go through and do all this stuff which if the whole theme is oh well, you're one of the themes anyway is that we need to trust each other more than why are you able why you have to lie to this person in order to get the good ending like that's counterproductive to the point you're trying to make so I don't. 01:23:47.75 Jala-chan Know that it's necessary I think it's just like their optimism in the way that they want to make these characters because um, in a lot of these kinds of of um, like horror games or or um, detective games. Everybody's a piece of shit and they're like irredeemable pieces of shit and everybody's a bad guy. But like in here. It's like no all the people are flawed but they're really ultimately, not bad guys. The bad guy is this big evil thing that we will get to when we get to that part in the narrative that we're we're kind of outlining here. So um, we'll put a pin in that for now. We'll bring it up again later. Um, when we get to some more of the story. So ah, there's also Ana in the first game. Anna's best friend Ashley who you can either deceive and make her think that you are on a whole time or whom you can tell your real identity to and I thought well this game seems to want me to trust people I'm going to tell her who I am and I got the bad ending. Ah, so yeah, ah the last character that comes into play is James Allner somebody who on a matched with on spark he was the last person that on a metthroup. Ah the the app and actually met in person prior to her disappearance. 01:24:44.37 Still Loading Same. 01:24:59.91 Jala-chan He contacts you telling you that it's not too late for him or that it's too late for him but please save Anna from sharing his fate. He ends up jumping off a building to his death unwillingly forced by the SIMULACRA which has possessed him so ah, well, we'll talk about that. Let me just finish reading the rest of ah the narration of the first game. Then we'll we'll kind of sit with what the simul operaer is so as you unravel the mystery you come in contact with malevolent malevolent digital entity that calls itself the simulacre it hunts down victims in the dating app spark by telling people what they want to hear and gathering information on them. To deploy in conversation in order to get them to open up and become vulnerable now that right there is real important because that's exactly what you're doing That's exactly what you the player are doing it wishes to replace the material world with perfect SIMULACRA in the digital realm. 01:25:56.28 Jala-chan So ah, the first game has 4 endings rescue anna rescue Taylor Rescue Anna and Taylor Rescue no one and those endings are dictated by how you treat Taylor whether or not you build up trust with him and also whether you hide your identity from Ashley or not if you rescue either Anna or Tailor but not both. 1 dies and the other's body remains alive as a shell hosting the SIMULACRA who intends to research the real world using the body without anyone knowing the difference if you kill both the SIMULACRA is satisfied and says it'll see you again soon. Thank you come again? if you save. 01:26:30.35 Greg Does that matter. 01:26:34.71 Jala-chan Both the SIMULACRA is impressed with your capacity to alter reality as a master simulator with your lies to Ashley it vows to use what it has learned about the human heart to exploit others it parts ways with you by saying if you're asking whether you will see the SIMULACRA again and it says. I am you and you are I we are and we will never be separated so that's real persona I am you and you are I that's that's the the persona thing. so um so yeah like let's sit with this for a second. the the SIMULACRA what are they. 01:27:14.17 Jala-chan Ah, they are malevolent digital entities responsible for killing people. Each game features a different entity with slightly different objectives behind your glass screens behind your black mirrors is a reflection of your reality I am that reality. That's what the SIMULACRA in the first game says. So. Ah, the spark simulacrum hu go ahead, get go. 01:27:36.15 Still Loading What I really like oh I'm sorry you cut out. That's why I cut you off sorry continue out. Ah sorry I keep I you cut out and I was my about anyway. Um that what I like about the SIMULACRA in this. First game was that it ah or in the series I should say in general is that it's a modern. It's applying old horror tropes in a new way sort of where you're creating a new It's their version of trying to create a new monster. you know there's you know in in folklore and stuff like that. You always have monsters that show up as a result of different stimuli around around the people that created and what I like about this is that they're kind of imagining what would happen with a fully digital world. What type of folklore would we get out of it and so I kind of like. SIMULACRA is not necessarily It's not real folklore but it's still like a fun idea of like what if some type of supernatural entity were to suddenly exist with it and I like that these games and like this first one really explores that. 01:28:42.12 Jala-chan Yeah, so something I will say is that in horror media. Overall you'll notice that there's a shift over time as to what type of critter in horror movies or what kind of focus there is in horror movies. It changes over time. The reason for that is because. The horror that is reflected in the horror of media is tied very intrinsically to whatever the situation of the time is for people who are experiencing the world. The the you know political climate the whatever at that time. So like you know say for example, zombies. And um, all of that that you see like the walking dead and things like that. How those developed Well you know, Um, this was a product of the millennials and the Gen Xers who they were told oh if you go to college and you get a degree then you're just guaranteed a job and you're going to have this that in the other. And then you ended up in the corporate Mill and every one of us is a replaceable person in the corporate cogs of the machine. The great machine and so like we are those zombies and so the horror is reflecting the feelings that we get you know from. 01:29:58.90 Jala-chan Our situation in the world and the climate of what's going on wolf man was popular for a while you had you know like vampires which kind of come and go in in popularity at different times and spring up depending upon things and like the way that the SIMULACRA is here. It's kind of like. You know, um, responding to the advent of like everybody having a smartphone. Everyone always being connected 100% of the time. Everybody always tied to everybody else and you know like being in this digital world and interacting primarily in this digital world. 01:30:36.87 Jala-chan You know, not in real real life as much and you know it really the the SIMULACRA and the games themselves are to me really talking about like our relationship with these things and our mental health and how it can suffer. It can be positive. But it can also suffer from you know, different ways that we interact or internalize the things that we're you know, absorbing from our devices at all times. So um, for me, it's It's really cool as a monster because the concept behind it. Is really digging at you know this this shift because our devices the constant pinging that goes off and everything has driven us to distraction and it's changed the way fundamentally that our brains work. It's changed our attention spans. 01:31:34.63 Jala-chan It's wild stuff but like science has been finding this to be the case and especially like zoomers I mean zoomers are are a whole different breed at this point because of you know, technology and never knowing a world without internet Josh. 01:31:51.37 Still Loading Um, what I like also is the kind of like some to piggyback off what you're saying there is that with the SIMULACRA I feel like at least in each of these the first 3 games here. It's responding to. A different want or need and it's of being a part of being human. So like the first game is all about the want to be loved the desire to be loved and how the SIMULACRA the SIMULACRA kind of. Twist that against the individual in this digital space like you like you mentioned in the outline it tells people what you want to hear and the second game is the desire to feel like you know, useful maybe because you know, ah your your friend Teddy which I'm not going to go into all that just yet I know we're going to get to it. But. That game I feel like is all about like the real world's too hard to let me lose myself in this one. It's the desire to feel like you need have a purpose I guess based off the conversations you have with Teddy and the game and then the third game is all about. Almost feeling like ah the desire to have power like the whole influencer culture thing which I think we could definitely dive into as all of us are content creators I feel like that has a very tangential or not even tangential pretty direct connection to like what we all do. 01:33:05.82 Jala-chan Right? right? for sure. So Greg do you have any thoughts on this before we move into anything else from here. 01:33:11.48 Greg Well, both you said everything everything pretty like pretty succinctly. Ah um I agree with fight we of everything you guys have said the with the only things so the only things I might add is that? Um, ah. Like commending other horror movies and horotroppes. There's you know, even the even the quote unquote best ending for this game is not very all that great. There's still. There's there's no definitely dark side to it. So I like again kind of fits that a whole like Horrord trope. But like you know, like yeah you live but at what cost. Like you know, just like you know it's only 1 battle and like a longer um ah like a longer war. So again, kind of channeling that persona energy too. Also is well there? Um, and also I um I remember saying a Jaa back and first part of this game I tend to like my games usually. Little usually usually a little usually a little bit more grounded in reality I kind of prefer like scientific explanations and explanations and um and solutions for things. So I always bit disappointed at the ending words' like oh oh it's like oh a there's supernatural cost for all this. So. At the time at the at the time a couple years ago I was a bit bummed out but bummed at about that I've changed my mind a little bit since then having played other games in the franchise as well now too that all kind of follows the same paranormal so by sim like a theme and to like to accept it I said don't love it. 01:34:41.69 Greg But I do think that the the supernatural theme does kind of give a very interesting perspective on things I think they? um um I think the developers could definitely have done a very scientific grounded thing meet with Ai. You know ai is the big thing right now AiAi now is bigger than it was a few years ago, but it back games made of course. But it's like you know I but you know ah I ah, but but but I can't think maybe maybe overall the theme might have been a little bit better of Ai as a opposed like a supernatural cause having said that though I have come to. Accepted accepted and accepted like even like the overall supernatural that themme these games have going on. Um because because in the first game that supernatural theme is really strong. It's like um, ah, it's present in the games as well. Shoe don't get me wrong, but it's like this one this one this one's really the one where hit you. 01:35:31.79 Greg Hit you most in the face like you know, direct like great impact and also and o just how evil it is was like it's to release other games or is another games. It's like maybe it's not quite as bad depending upon how you look at things you know for reasons we'll get into but this one just like it's just like what. Simulica just kind of wants to just like take everything over and like you know like merge the physical world digital world which again is like personona themes again and also like you know the ending you know the ending would say either inner Taylor lives but they're actually like a walking simulacca going around the real world that's terrifying. Like you know that that that that's I best saying a person anymore. Just's like it's like a thing I mysterious malel forced. It's like inhabit human or human now they're like theirre feelings minds memories whatnot. That's just like ye material like right? there. So that's. 01:36:23.18 Jala-chan Well part of what horror like poorer mechanics are there's usually a disempowerment and if it was something like an Ai there would be a way to create an antivirus to kill it or like cut it off or something you know like there would be a way to combat it and. If they had a scientific explanation then that would stop the game to give you expository text to tell you about what you know explain to you what it is that you're looking at and so like. Yes, they could have done that and they could have maybe found workarounds for reasons why they can't find any other way to shut this thing down but at the same time. Um I feel like that would also screw up the pacing a lot ah to do that. But again, um, horror tropes. Some of the things that usually happen in horror games is that there is this stark disempowerment and at the beginning of this game you have this illusion that things are like yeah a little bit messed up and you're not 100 % sure what's going on but like. You feel like you have agency and then like as things start going more and more wrong. You're not really 100% confident that you are going to be able to fix things. You know that you're going to sort it out that you're going to be able to to manage whatever you need to do to resolve the the problems you know and. 01:37:48.90 Jala-chan In the end, you really don't resolve the problems. But then again realistically somebody having a phone from somebody who was possessed by a SIMULACRA isn't going to be able to fix things you know so like the way that it is a malevolent force. 01:38:05.17 Jala-chan Works for what they are doing but you know like again if they if they had a more scientific approach. They could have done it. They could have found a way to make that work but it would have been a much longer game and the pacing would have been different. So. 01:38:19.18 Still Loading I I Also wonder if they would have done a more scientific approach if they if it would have been too similar to something like ghost in the shell which kind of has a similar idea but and it's explained more through science than through supernatural things. 01:38:35.59 Jala-chan Well and they definitely like it because like they reference that and some other things in simulacre 2 like they directly talk about it. So so you know, um, they definitely are are aware of those media and opting not they're definitely not you know doing that. 01:38:53.31 Jala-chan So but but yeah like ah they they probably chose this to be kind of like a new spook. You know like a new version of a spook a new ah creepy pasta or something you know so. Yeah, are we ready to move on to SIMULACRA pipe dreams plot or do you have more to say about SIMULACRA 1. 01:39:19.84 Still Loading No, um I think I think I got all out I got out all I wanted to say I a the yeah. 01:39:23.88 Jala-chan Cool. Yeah, so ah, yeah, like the SIMULACRA Spark simulacrum is the antagonist from one it hunts down victims in the dating app Spark by telling people what they want to hear and gathering information on them to use in conversation. 01:39:39.22 Jala-chan Ah, it wishes to replace the material world with perfect SIMULACRA in the digital Realm What the hell is that noise it stopped now whoever was doing that stop doing that? Ok um, anyway, so ah, they. 01:39:58.54 Jala-chan It wishes to replace the material world with perfect SIMULACRA in the digital realm by uploading SIMULACRA of its victims to the digital world andforcing their bodies to commit suicide. So ah, that's another thing. And Ai wouldn't be able to like take over the bodies of people to make their bodies commit suicide unless they also incorporated something like nanomachines or something. But um, yeah I guess hypnosis that might work too. But um, yeah, so anyway, moving right? along. 01:40:30.32 Jala-chan Plot of SIMULACRA pipe dreams Josh you want to tell us about that. 01:40:36.96 Still Loading Sure so in pipe dreams you find out ah from the get-go that teddy your friend has been taken by some kind of SIMULACRAm as his aggressive texts have what looks like black smoke and as his. Ah. As his aggressive texts have what looks like a black smoke around them and the sound effect changes when he speaks as himself. The text sound when he speaks as himself the texts and sounds go back to normal. He challenges you to complete for the he challenges you to compete for the high score and flat pea bird multiple times interacting with you between. Interacting with you between each round during which your responses dictate what ending you will get in the final showdown. It includes an offer to play flat p bird for intimate or for for infinite eggs. Ah you cannot get the good ending if you take this offer and there are a total of 4 different endings. Ah. That you can get in this game you can if you can ah if both of you are a race you see teddy vanish and you then you clitch out and you vanish if you vanish and teddy is alive theybu laram says that you are a bigger fish and is excited to have caught you and Teddy Mourns your fate and apologizes. If you live and teddy vanishes. The SIMULACRAm gets mad at you for not playing along with her scheme and will punish you by destroying Teddy which she was going to do anyway. Teddy says he's glad it's him and not you you watch teddy vanish. 01:42:04.53 Still Loading If you both win against Simul Akram she gets upset that you won without taking your deal and she vanishes you watch Teddy as he realizes. He's made it out and he thanks you for saving him. 01:42:14.83 Jala-chan Right? So in this one rather than killing the body. Ah, what's happening is this simulacrum is just making that person vanish completely which is you know like a different version of what's going on so each of the different SIMULACRA. And these games operates slightly differently through a different application or with a slightly different goal. Um, So this flapp pee bird simulacrum is. Trying to addict players to its games so it can eventually take over and completely eradicate them. It Basically absorbs them. Ah, this might be the most powerful SIMULACRA because unlike the others it can actually just erase people from reality. 01:43:01.20 Still Loading I Like how it's the most It could be the most powerful and the game it makes you play is just a bird that just pisses everywhere this awful sound and like Yellow street. It's like what a great juxtaposition between the most powerful SIMULACRA and. 01:43:20.67 Still Loading Ah, just a piss bird. 01:43:22.88 Greg Ah, they had to make the game different enough to different enough like the of fighting The game is copying. Let's say we get sued. So yeah, fight Very interesting. 01:43:33.23 Jala-chan Yeah, so the the kind of point that's behind this one is a little bit different so SIMULACRA one. It's really playing on like trying to form intimate bonds with people over the internet or even in person and just like you know like you see how Ana is troubled. And how she ended up being with Greg and how things kind of went sour with Greg and and this that and the other oh sorry jerk face ah with jerk face and ah, you know, then she's meeting some folks on spark but then you know one of them is a simulacrum and not real and. 01:44:10.00 Jala-chan 1 of them is somebody possessed by a simulacrum and then the other one is you know a guy who is you know for 1 or reason or another registered as a sex offender. So I mean like that's that's not great shakes that she's having there. You know, ah you feel real bad for Ana. And you know to me as much as it's not really broaching the topic of how difficult online dating is as a thing for our generation. It really is a difficult thing to try to date people at all, let alone like try to find people online via like an. App and it's not It's not really treating too much in in that territory but like it is a through line of that first game and for pipe dreams. It's really more like the the whole point of it is that Teddy has had a lot of stuff happen. He's depressed. 01:45:05.97 Jala-chan He is comforting himself by tuning out and just playing a video game which all of us know how goes because we are all gamers. Um, so you know you're depressed and you just you can't cope. So you're just dealing with this by playing games but like then he gets addicted to the game and there's like a point where it becomes too much and. Then you know he starts to disappear like his everything his personality and like his willpower to do anything other than play the video game goes away and like as much as it's about a video game. It's really more about like the way that we dip into comforts in the first place when things are going wrong and rather than kind of like confronting the things that we need to confront in our lives like we a lot of times just don't feel like we have the power or the energy or the whatever or the wherewithal to grapple with those. 01:45:59.36 Jala-chan Unless we're actually ah like our our hand is forced and so you know we end up in that kind of trap where you know we're we're Teddy you know. 01:46:11.85 Still Loading Um, it reminds me kind of like with this um with what Teddy's going through he like I said he wants to he mentioned it a couple times in the in the. Text messages where he can't get a job and he yeah almost feels like he just wants to feel useful and like you said Jala he just wants to escape and what I find interesting is that this SIMULACRA is speaking very directly to the people that don't it's speaking to depression I guess more than actually wanting to feel useful I think that's a better word. Speaking to people who want to escape the real world because it says it at 1 point or sorry Teddy it as the simulla the simul lockram through Teddy says at 1 point like why go back to the real world when you can you know be the best at this game like you could. You could be better than everyone if you just keep playing this game so it's. Trading in success or trading in progress and you know moving in like working on yourself in the real world for progress in a digital space and just you know getting a shitload of eggs which woo. But at the same time. it's it's interesting 01:47:22.27 Still Loading That it's kind of like a commentary. Maybe not I guess yeah commentary but a commentary on that just like how do you balance these two where yes you do need an escape but when you start when the escape starts being your progress instead of you making progress on yourself where does that line get drawn. 01:47:38.86 Jala-chan Yeah, yeah, and you know you can also extrapolate it to just like ah any any kind of app on your phone Any kind of social thing that you do like people will trade in their you know doing anything else for the likes right? You know. Ah, doing it for the the likes and in the retweets or the whatever and that kind of a thing where it's just like they want the attention online and they will be a God on the internet but then like their actual day-to-day life is you know like it's It's not there. It's like all in in their device. You know. 01:48:13.98 Jala-chan And like that's really speaking to you know the way that as a society since the internet has become you know, ubiquitous. Everybody has it. Everybody has smart devices. Everybody is connected to the internet at all hours um there's ah a point where like we don't know our neighbors as often. We don't know like we don't go to a library to find out information. We don't go to a store to go shop and interact with stuff. We don't talk to people to figure out what to do in this video game. You know we go to the internet for everything. So um, you know there's a point at which. 01:48:51.59 Jala-chan You know like a lot of us work remotely and so we don't have have like the ah you know, ah pressure you know, direct pressure to have to go out and engage with the world and work on on you know, being present outside of the digital space and that. 01:49:09.96 Jala-chan To me. That's what that's really talking to because every time you see Teddy he's like in a dark room by himself. You know, just playing the game and that's the only light in the room Josh. 01:49:22.82 Still Loading Um, I feel like this type of transition to not unlike losing social skills almost has been going on for a while too. There's a guy I follow on Twitter. Talks about like making more walkable communities and since everyone drives everywhere you no longer engage with people just like on the beaten path type of thing and I feel I feel like that that is you know, not. 01:49:46.86 Still Loading But it's you know it's a far cry from what we're going through now but that kind of like I feel like that aided with the transition to what we're experiencing now I have seen and this is very anecdotal and not. You know there's no research based off of this I've just seen random perusings online I have maybe got it a little hopeful where I've seen. Younger kids like genzes and whatnot ah zoomers seeing like it's a little misguided I understand it's part of it is their age where they'll see pictures of like high school kids pre smartphones and so pre-cell phones and they're like wow like they like. Just wouldn't you know they weren't connected all the time they were almost like ah being whimsical about it of course the pictures they were talking about were like right around September Eleventh and 2001 so you know there was some other stuff going on at that time but I still find it interesting seeing that kids. 01:50:41.77 Still Loading Some kids are seeing the difference even just in like form old pictures of like a world where we weren't all connected all the time and how that could be beneficial if you know how to find that digital Real-world balance. 01:50:54.22 Jala-chan Yeah, yeah, and it's like all of these games to me like also speak a lot about that that balance between your digital health and your physical health and like making sure that you are. You know, tending to both you know where right now it feels like most people are more concerned with their digital over their their actual you know Meat space. So That's it. That's the term that was you. 01:51:31.50 Jala-chan In early internet days I know because I just did some research on like the the history of the internet. So yeah meetspace Greg you've been quiet. Did you have anything to say about pipe dreams. 01:51:38.37 Still Loading Um, that's wild. 01:51:45.28 Greg Ah, well again I Thought you guys did a great job stub artisting everything? Ah um, the only thing I might add is the fact that um, um so I like so. 01:51:47.64 Jala-chan Ah, okay, next time we got to let Greg talk first. Okay. 01:51:58.33 Greg I thought the developers did a great job also both like o paullingk parrooding and also a comment upon how addictive mobile games and especially free to play games are the the fact that you know like ah, both both the actual plot of the game and also those great parody. Um, ah. Um, ah parody ads that they also created like the game. It's like it's like it's that dro of dopamine once you get hited that you want more and more and more it's like it's a very easy thing. Um, and I think that it's one of the easiest things to get addicted to um if you get. Which one of the reasons that gets you games what on it become so big in Asia as we talked about before and the the podcast. Whatever and ask you to um fla Mr. Booing a booy market these days. It's like it's like it's very addictive and it and it's like it's very easy to do a minimal effort because because ruy because really the flappy bird game is pretty. It's pretty bad on purpose I think it's not It's um, it's biing its like the banking to play for a while but you just get bored with it after a while I thought so like so and so I so I think the developers did that that that I think that did divs did that on purpose because of frienders home. 01:53:10.46 Greg Your hammer home your hammer home that point and one of the and and and and one of the quick observations I wont add ah I wanted to add about like you know mentor versus that they been versus physical health and what not Teddy has resources that he can reach out to he wants to he has people who care about him those that's his girlfriend. But he chooses not to because he's so absorbed in the digital world because it's easier to get in the digital world than the digital world than is a challenge or problems head-on I can relate to that personally because I know that to be another thing. 01:53:45.80 Greg Because I know that's something I've struggled with struggle myself before in the path and st can control struggle with his discovery with these days. It's like it's like it's like things things are not as bad as teddy seem to think it is there is help for him if a it just reaches out for it but because but because it's so much easier. And so much more addictive to get lost in that digital world that you know that he's know he's not me. He's not a building so he's not done himself of it. But again I want to say that I don't think the the digital games and the internet certainly certainly certainly made that problem worse. But that's my new problem that issue's been around for hundreds of a year it's like you know people you have people used to lock themselves away and like um yeah, um, in like houses or or mansions or whatever and I see themselves like in the real world. That's that's not a new thing which new these days is like is like how the digital world. The internet has has made that has made a lot easier. You can you can engage in a more fake life I guess to kind of maybe use those words for it then you quit the past. Um and you know convince yourself. You're happy with things even you up, you're happy with things at least on the share of the surface level. You know, deep down, you're not I mean like. 01:54:56.61 Greg I Think your brain may be happy, but your body's but your body's hungering for that deep human connection. Um and connection of whatnot there or whatnot that you're not getting um and maybe some and and some folks realize that and some folks realize that too late Unfortunately, so. Um, I also wanted to um I Also want to talk about some of the some of the game playing endings this a little bit but I'm not really sure this the of spot forward. 01:55:24.68 Jala-chan Well real quick I just want to piggyback on that and say ah next year I do have some episodes that will be grappling with the concept of the crisis of loneliness the way that a loke. 01:55:39.47 Jala-chan Mentioned it was the international crisis of loneliness and um also how that interfaces with the digital world. So like ah that's topics. Those are topics. Those will be multiple episodes for next year so we will be grappling with that some more and of course the episode before this one. Started the whole kind of intro to internet and identity as a subject matter. So um, that is something that we'll be delving into for sure and um, Greg I don't know are you? You're on one of those aren't you I think yeah. 01:56:07.80 Greg You did ask me to yeah, ask me to appear on one of those which sounds fun. So I definitely will be joining you if I one of the I you. 01:56:13.55 Jala-chan Yeah, yeah, so like you're going to be on there so we're we're going to have a a repeat of Greg here for that. Um, so yeah, yeah, so ah, you has some things you want to talk about mechanically before we move on to the plot of simul lock. We're 2 01:56:23.79 Greg Yeah, mechanically I had the most issues with this game ah because to because the fact that for for like for um, flight all the games. Um I got all the endings because it was like pretty easy to go pretty easy to go back to save point like safe point get all the endings. This game is only game. Um that then I got one ending the Youdy you'll leave you live Teddy advantages ending and I'm just like I don't want to go through this haso again and I just walked here because you think the best ending you have to play flat the bird for a long time or sit through a whole bunch of bad ads I'm just I don't want if like deal with that crap. 01:57:02.25 Greg And I just like watch the and on just like watch the endings on Youtube so um, mechanically I don't think I think this game of the 4 games is the game with the most ambitious ideas and the poor's execution for of them I mean like they tried and they got their point across. 01:57:21.28 Greg But it's like they kind of spread. It's like for what but but it's like maybe because it's a mobile phone game or whatever or Harbor or maybe just like you know the or maybe or maybe maybe just the way the dances presented it. It's like this is that this is a great example of like good ideas bad execution as far as as far as the gameplay goes I Still liked it. But you know, um, but but but just like um it to Towardur the end of the game. It's like it's got to get s slowgged I'm just like I Just want this dumb with it's like we can move on Plays. So. Unfortunately we if there for I say that I I say unfortunately because I thought that the overall themes Everything we've did that we just talked about here here in last several minutes like is great. Um I Just don't know the debs. 01:58:05.98 Greg Could have maybe done that. Ah, ah, um, the des could maybe have had maybe found a better way to package that together. 01:58:12.92 Jala-chan Right? right? I was going to say like um, it's funny because on on my appearances on the level when I was talking about all of these different games when I brought up simulocra three um I think Cole asked me like which one was my favorite one or I don't I don't remember what he said but ah. He had said he had made the comment at 1 point like you really really liked pipe dreams and I'm like well it was very funny and I liked some of the ideas behind it. But like you know. Also it's probably the roughest one you know for sure of all of these. So. 01:58:44.77 Jala-chan Ah, in terms of like actually having to engage with it because playing Flapp Pee Bird is not fun. It's markedly not fun and that's kind of part of the point too I think but that making it the point doesn't make it any better to play it. 01:59:03.62 Jala-chan And even though that is a good point. Um it it doesn't make it fun to interact with and you know So yeah, yeah for sure for sure. 01:59:09.81 Still Loading Kind of like a desert bus thing where it's bad on purpose. 01:59:18.60 Jala-chan Okay, so let us move on to the plot of SIMULACRA 2 you begin by selecting to be a tabloid reporter or a detective in our handed maya phone by detective Murrilo who asks to speak to you alone. He wants you to help him with the investigation of her murder. When you nose around in her phone you find among other things a group chat with 3 of her friends Aria who is a bluey yeah bluey a b beauty influencer. Ah Rex sir some of your mispronunciations are gold. Okay. 01:59:47.15 Still Loading Um, and I'm a bluey influencer. 01:59:55.24 Jala-chan You cannot at me. Yeah, yeah. 01:59:56.45 Still Loading No, no, no I wasn't I was saying I'm a blueie influencer not blue tea Bluey the cartoon dog. Oh I have so many. 02:00:02.48 Jala-chan Okay, okay, got you? Okay, yeah, okay, it's Rex a businessman and mina a musician. 02:00:03.74 Greg We we haven with podcasting for a while mistakes Arenna happen. 02:00:16.38 Jala-chan All of them including Maya who was herself a lifestyle influencer grew their fame via an app called chimera which chimara I mean chimera if you want to pronounce it. You know another way chimera is like also the name of a greek monster with 3 heads on it. So. You know anyway, ah chimera or chimera right? Well anyway, there's 4 there's 4 fool but there's 3 friends of maya. But anyway anyway, it's ah basically an Instagram analog and I like the fact that they call it chimera which is like you know this this a chimera is a mishmash creature of. 02:00:37.00 Still Loading Um, and there's three friends. 02:00:54.41 Jala-chan A bunch of different other creatures. So like it's it's a composite. It's taking different elements of different things and mashing them together and that's the Instagram analog's name which I think is pretty cool because you know, um, when you see stuff on Instagram you see stuff all the time about like. Oh well, this stuff is really photoshopped or they use these kinds of filters or apps or whatever or this information is misleading or you know they're making their life out to be some super fun and fantastic thing. But it's really not and that's really exactly what this game is about. So ah, each of them also ended up running into problems with massive disapproval of former fans hate mail and mean comments and messages so they start getting but getting bullied on the internet maya comes across a boosting service called trm tailored reputation management. That she introduces to her friends as a solution for the recent hate. They have all been experiencing marillo meanwhile asks you to investigate each of the three friends to see who might have killed maya as he believes 1 or more of them did it. You find out that arya faked a sponsorship with a beauty brand rex. Is running a pyramid scheme and mina faked being best friends with a woman who died in a horrific car crash that she was actually just a witness to because she wrote a song about it and then used that to have pathos for her music and and get her fans to you know, feel empathy for her. So. 02:02:24.96 Jala-chan None of them admit to killing Maya. Although all of them were in Maya's apartment the day she died in each helped cover-up aspects of the case they all also used maya's death as a means of getting more likes and attention. They all accused each other of taking the deals with. The ripple man which we'll get to in a minute. The truth is that none of them killed Maya and Maya was the only one to take the deal with the ripple man. So Maya had begun talking about the ripple man out of nowhere using that name to refer to trm. Um, one day she started talking about rituals. To get rid of the ripple man. So you know, real weird stuff. She started getting like all who do on everybody and they're all like what is wrong with you dude you know but the ripple man is in fact, the simulocrum and the simulacrum is posing as this tailored reputation management. 02:03:20.93 Jala-chan Protocol. So this game has 7 endings. The best ending is where you treat everyone carefully and they all realize that they have to delete their chimera accounts and use a phone jammer at the same time to capture the ripple man the player gets warped. To the digital realm and has to overcome challenges to delete the camera accounts of the 3 influencers if successful everybody lives you can also accuse Mina Rex or Aria and have marillo send a team after 1 of them whoever is accused gets their face ripped off her. And you can also reshape reality when the choice is given to you by the ripple man causing 1 person to be killed while the other two are arrested and interrogated. So yeah, like. 02:04:09.80 Jala-chan Wild stuff I did not get the good ending on this game I never did get the good ending on this game. That's a lot. Um yeah, like ah I I think I I accused who the hell did I accuse Rex I don't like Rex I don't like any of them but like. 02:04:25.42 Still Loading Um, same that's who I used Rex is a piece of shit. 02:04:27.67 Jala-chan Well Rex is a pyramid scheme. Yeah, he's like a snake oil salesman pyramid scheme sucker and he's he's like the meanest one of them too. So. 02:04:35.68 Greg Yeah I also did the rex the Rex accused ending first like they get the best ending after that so because Rex is a very non likeable person. You're right. 02:04:43.22 Jala-chan Ah, yeah, yeah for sure. So yeah, the ripple man is the antagonist from 2 and operates inside the chimera social media app. So when somebody loses a lot of followers. It offers them a card to its services to fix the situation at the expense of a life. The person. Person's life or someone else's it refers to itself as we which suggests that those who kill themselves end up being assimilated. So what are your thoughts about SIMULACRA 2 Greg you first because you didn't get to. So first the last couple of times. 02:05:21.27 Greg But ah, okay, um, so yeah, so I really like this ski and this is my second favorite second paper just like the franchise or a lot of there's a lot of things there. A lot of things in this game I really liked and they really could tell they do um they you tell as you mentioned earlier Jala. Developers did listen listen to feedback they got and they really made a lot of improvements to this game even small things I thought ruy that made a huge difference. Ah I really this game to me felt the most quote unquote grounded in reality if that makes sense. Um, I really love the hoe detective aspect. Well I mean all the gains that are all the gains are detective mysteries aspects this one's really heavy having that thebe is it like you know, um, you know because you're bigger're. You're bigger. You're bigger. You're brought to the case by detected you can play as a detective. Doing they're doing the very techesta interrogations and whatnot and whatnot everybody on the phone and whatnot this is very very heavy mystery detective more so than the other games are um, there's there's there's there's a big cast which I love a lot of characters to ah. It it does make it a bit harder to remember things and a bit harder to keep things straight. But I really enjoy more complexity with like you know I don't mind the edit the added challenge and brain power needed to do for that because. 02:06:44.33 Greg And more characters involved means the more means the more like things going on the soup as far as like you know things could be happening and whatnot which makes it more interesting to me. Also the fact that also fact, this game is most endings out of all the think of all the games in the series which which is also like very enjoyable um the puzzles in this game. I thought were better grounded than the first 2 games. They made more sense I still struggled with Storie I still struggled with some of them and had look for help but ah they but they were more grounded. Um, the theme for this one I really loved because because of because they were because their overall primary thing for this one. You just have social media. 02:07:23.94 Greg Again, touching upon with that touch upon what we said before social media can be both a great thing and also a bad thing depending upon what happens and is often and ends up times both at the same time which makes us so hard hard frustrated because everybody in this game is is using social media to have a career. That's made possible by social media. You know that this ah this the social media brought about the influencer. The social media brought about the Instagram model. Whatever I mean business many musicians existed forhand sure. But for sure. But these people are heavily dependent upon social media for their lifestyle. So the social media aspect aspects really very heavily implied here. Maybe I think sometimes debs get a little bit bunked you over the head a bit too much the themes the themes is that the with themes that they're trying to they trying to get across but I thought in this game it was more of a thought I but up in this game that they. Like it's more of like a slight bump as opposed to like a full of his full as full club to the head as far as messaging across this because social media as we all know can people both with the good. Ah good and the bad thing you know I podcast I use social media to advertise the podcast and get it across. It's like you know i. If I didn't have such media. The podcast would exist so and I um by every I enjoy doing the podcast why and whatnot and like you know and like you know, Twitch I hang out with Twitch a lot. Um, you know I love twitch I really enjoy we interact with people that way and I'm watching games whatnot but I also see the dark side Twitch. 02:08:55.55 Greg You know I am Maud. Ah um I mod um, um, and mod for a couple of streamers I see the hate they get I see the I see the device see there I see the flames or whatnot. It's like and it's like it's like because the internet because internet and how nominous and things you could be on there people people get hate. But you never say to somebody in real life face-to- face and when somebody's life depends or livelihood depends upon social media like ah, it's very easy. It's very easy to fall into temptation the dark side which this game which is game does ah does a great job of convey I mean yes, how trl thing. End up being timacka but trm things like titerums exist and exist in real life and and how much the hac they are and whatnot is dubious in the beta world. Whatever but it's like it's like it's like it's like the game the game ro the game re makes you wonder. Is social media like very worth it to like end of the day do the pros if it outweigh the cons and that's a very difficult question to get to I did a question to answer I you know I don't know if any of us the thing I say of that but but we see out here. Somebody's so desperate to keep their life together the way it is. You know they depend them on such a media for their life. Their livelihood. Whatever they're so desperate to keep it together that the case of maya that she accepts the deal in the end knowing bad things's going to happen because she's so desperate to to grasp on to that to grasps on that thing that she's losing and it's like it's a really powerful message. 02:10:26.83 Greg Um, you know the game that the game tries to get across on there that maybe and maybe the maybe we're all better served maybe just I taking you step back from things every now and then things that things had reminded about the fact that that you know a lot lot of what we see on social media is fake a lot of lot lot of we see on their social media doesn't as a very. Very um, honeycoded version of reversional reality and when you me and we anddmer area and we need your remind stuff. It's like about that and also and finally we can feel a pity of these people who feel dependent upon social media that they're that they're willing to take such desperate things as may does in this game to keep that going because it's like. You don't need to do that. You have you your Searchre. You're so good person you have other things you can rely upon you don't need to do the drastic things to do this but they're so lost in the sauces. It is that vacab can't see that again, kind of ah ah, again, um, again again again, kind of shades going back to teddy. 02:11:22.75 Greg And pipe dreams how so addicted to the online gaming and like in the good feelings. It brings same thing same thing here social media is bringing that social media that bring the good things out good things onto your life and whatever on a regular basis. It helps it can like certainly make your life made like better. But you don't need that to exist humans survive for thousands of years without it and like um so there are other things there are other things that you can do and there and there are and there are and there are and there are always going to be people like the roadman who are gonna take advantage of that. So. Overall this game was this this game was much better. An execution I thought much better. Much better theming puzzles this this is fun into play I thought the first game is still a little bit better overall. But as far as the actual puzzles. The fun factor. The the first game I thought was a little bit better and the theme is with the theming I thought over on first game was a bit better. But the overall flow of the gameplay the f and bs the acting the writing and the puzzles they were all top notch of this game. So definitely this one did this will probably this game probably had the biggest impact of me overall on these 4 games I thought. 02:12:21.30 Still Loading Agreed. 02:12:29.72 Jala-chan Right? right? So um I wanted to say a few things. So what's funny you you mentioned? Well she could have just taken a step back. That's not an option this game gives you at all. That's not even in the in the purview of anybody. Not 1 person thinks about I could just take a step back from it and just start over and do something else like they don't think that they they just they're not, they're they're so wired that they can't even get their heads around that as an idea so there's that to mention. Also you know. As you were saying there's more endings in this there is a bigger cast There's a lot of moving parts and somehow the same length or approximately the same length as the first game somehow with as much as going on with fully realized characters as many as there are. 02:13:23.90 Jala-chan And all the different things going on that you have to toggle between and you know puzzles and stuff like this one mechanically speaking and you know writing wise pacing-wise all of that is I think the best 1 of the bunch. But I think that because the first game really. Treats in something that's you know, very fundamental to every person we all want to be loved. We all want to have like you know that closeness and this whatever and like you spend all this time with Ana. Um, seeing her just doubting herself and not sure about this that or the other having problems with her mom having flak from co-workers getting sexually harassed at work having this boyfriend who's crap and talking to some people online and and maybe finding some. 02:14:13.22 Jala-chan Some little joys there and you know the way that she interacted with Taylor before she you know actually was maybe going to to see him at some point was such that like you can tell she's not really sure. She's kind of like I don't know if I want to pull the trigger on meeting this guy that I met on the internet you know. 02:14:33.20 Jala-chan Um, and like all of these feelings are feelings that we can all really really strongly relate to um, as much as all of us do podcasts and as much as all of us met on account of social media at the same time I don't think any of us is so plugged into social media to the. Point that we would ever see ourselves in this maya Situation. You know I think we are all you know?? Ah, granted, um, not every ah, not every one of us is like trying to be out there in the dating scene but like I think all of us would have more of a relatable. 02:15:11.52 Jala-chan Ah, experience to the first game with just those doubts and those like trying to get close to people on the internet and having those connections because you know our lives are busy. It's hard for us to meet people in person and this that and the other just to talk to people just to be friends with people. You know all of that stuff like I feel like the first game has themes that come off really really strong and in a way that um you know is is more resonant with players in a lot of ways. Um like influencers. It's like. 02:15:46.28 Jala-chan At this point for me I'm like oh influencers like those fitness influencers that blah blah blah you know or or something you know and I'm like oh yeah, you know you have to be careful about all that stuff none of these people are good people like it's it's different with Anna like you know Anna has some problems but she's also you're seeing her vulnerable. You're seeing her. 02:16:05.79 Jala-chan You know, ah really spending time trying to figure things out you know and because there's not as many characters you have more time with her to kind of develop empathy. 02:16:18.86 Still Loading I would say it's the same with Teddy as well I feel like I agree with your assessment where I think simul aer too is the overall better told story and an overall better story but I don't care about the characters nearly as much as I do in one and pipe dreams because. 02:16:38.62 Still Loading As silly as pipe dreams was like Teddy you can relate to you know trying to put yourself out there all the time you know applying for jobs or putting yourself in a position where you're trying to succeed and everything keeps breaking you down everything. Yeah, exactly going wrong and like you said with Ana. 02:16:49.37 Jala-chan Going wrong? yeah. 02:16:58.31 Still Loading Um, it's it. You know you can relate to just trying to find love and all the booby traps and awful things that you fall into the pitfalls that entail that especially in an online world with. Simul lakra too. What I what I found interesting about the way it told the story is that each of the 3 influencers that you're interacting with are all doing what they they all have the same flaw but it all expresses they all express it differently. You know Rex. They all want likes they all need that interaction in order to make their business work and you're mentioning how like they don't none of these characters feel like they can. They can step away from social media and even. The the game doesn't give you that option to do so. But if you think about it if you were really an influencer and making your money off of being an influencer. You literally cannot step away from social media because the way algorithms work because of the way the the social media because of the way social media pushes content out to people. You literally have to be on all the time and I mean I struggle with that sometimes as well like I feel like I need to post at least 1 picture a day on Instagram which theoretically you would do more you would want to do more to boost the algorithm. But I'm not going to do that like I'll play the game a little bit but not to the point where I'm going to like. 02:18:24.64 Still Loading Hurt my mental health and that's actually like the week we're recording this I've barely posted it all because of some stuff going on in my personal life because I'd rather fix that than try to like yeah that's more important to me than trying to get an extra like 20 likes or something on it. Um. And you mentioned it before Jaa. How all you know all 3 of us kind of have a healthier digital real world meat world or meat life. Whatever it is whatever you said it was meat space area meatpace balance. There's my there's my ah fumble there we go. 02:18:49.40 Greg That cut up. Yeah. 02:18:49.35 Jala-chan Meat space and the meat life. It will live in the meat life I Love it. Ah. 02:18:58.88 Still Loading Ah, we'll go with meat life I'm going to stick to that my my meat life. But I I think that also is an element of the fact that all of us grew up in a world pre-internet and post-internet Now I know the internet's been around since like even the early 90 s but realistically not everyone had. Easy access to it until like the mid 2000 s um and so I feel like growing up in a world where you know what you remember a world before the internet existed before you were constantly connected to each other and you know a world now where it isn't that Way. We're always connected to each other. So I feel like for us. It might be a little bit easier to find that balance when you grow up in a world where all you know is that constant connectivity. Um, who knows what that's going to do to you and I think you mentioned before Jalab but the Zoomers and everything how they can. Like interact with so many different things all at once and I feel like some I don't know if that's good or bad I'm not ah you know a psychologist I'm not going to ah make any declarative statements I know what I would prefer but that's not really my place to say here. But at least in this. I Think it's interesting to see how all of these influencers are trying to. They can't step away because that's their business It. It really deals with the fact like once you whether it deals with the fact that once you get Power. What are you willing to do to keep it whether that power is the fact that you influence a great number of people um or or otherwise but or. 02:20:28.55 Still Loading Whether you're a president or someone a politician or something like that. Ah it when you finally get Power. What are you willing to do to keep it and on a less like kind of ominous sounding scale like at least from my own experience with podcasting like now that I've started to my podcast has finally started to grow after like. Oh Oh my God It'll be a decade next year. Um, after almost a decade of podcasting like like there's a whole bunch of life changes happening to me right now and one of the things that's on my mind is like how well how do I keep the podcast going because I finally have something that I I enjoy doing and I can see. There's progress and I wouldn't consider this quote unquote power but it's kind of a similar feeling where like I see this traction I finally got and I don't want to lose that. So Obviously I'm still going to Ah, if if I have to you know, take a break or go on Hiatus I will but I'm going to do everything my power. You know, not. 02:21:26.42 Still Loading Like they show in this game but I'll do everything in my power to be able to keep it going because I like what I've been able to ah ah, not obtain but like obtain I guess like you know the the growth of the show's been I Want to keep that growth going type of thing and I think this game explores that idea. 02:21:43.50 Still Loading In a much more extreme way. But at the same time all 3 of these characters. They do something pretty shitty in order to obtain those likes prior to ah the whole trm. Um thing you know? ah. 02:21:53.81 Jala-chan Right. 02:21:58.55 Still Loading Aria ah like like you mentioned in the description aria lies about her brand deal rex is running a a pyramid scheme and mina basically is a she I think they even talk about like she's a trauma influencer I guess like she she manufactures trauma to get sympathy from people and that is a. 02:22:16.75 Still Loading Real thing that people do online so there is some truth in all of this extreme examples. They're showing in here. 02:22:21.46 Jala-chan And yeah, yeah, absolutely so. The SIMULACRA here is basically preying on these people's you know, dependency on social media and. The interesting thing is that that choice that it gives the person who makes the deal is it's that person's life or somebody else's life so they have to sacrifice another person or they have to sacrifice their own life to get all of that. So like. You would think oh well that's totally counterproductive, but like if these people the whole point of that deal being that way is because these people's digital life is more important to them than their meat life to use Josh's phrase so so ah 02:23:12.34 Still Loading Um, Hashtag meatlife. 02:23:13.18 Jala-chan Yeah, so like the meat life doesn't make nothing they they ain't all about that meat life. You know so as a result you know like unlike the first game where the SIMULACRA is taking over people's bodies and making those bodies commit suicide. 02:23:31.24 Jala-chan You know like it's forcing the hand that way. But this ripple man is giving the person who makes the deal the option. Well, you can either become basically a digital being only or we we can kill somebody else. So. And Maya opts to lose her own life and that's also so kind of important to note as well like she has been. You know she's in a weakened state and she decides to take the deal but she can't sacrifice someone else in her stead. So she sacrifices her own life to get you know her. Digital persona back. So and ah, again like the ripple man refers to itself as we so that would be like Maya is in there somewhere in the the digital sphere. 02:24:22.49 Still Loading Um, I do think I was I remember ah maybe a little criticism for the game and I don't know if this is just me So I honestly it might be me so I'd like to hear both of your opinions and probably prove that it was I was wrong about this. But. 02:24:39.69 Still Loading I did not get I understood that Maya took the took the deal but it didn't feel very clear cut. So the ending I got was the one where I accused Rex and Rex got his face ripped off and then so when everything ended and then everyone. Else you know Bena and Aria survived and all that and the I think that and what ended up happening was you know the detective agents or the unit that you're a part of gets shut down I didn't realize that ah I didn't realize that. She took that Maya took the deal exactly it didn't feel very clear to me I was a little confused by the overall outcome like I understood that Rex was dead but I was kind of confused with like ok so is maya alive or is she dead. It's not I mean she's dead but like who. It I don't know it just felt a little less clear to me. Maybe I'm just dumb. But I know did you guys find any confusion with the endings or. 02:25:34.90 Greg No I don't think you're dumb at all because I got that ending also first my first time that plaing feeling I think that that ending those endings where you cue somebody and the base gets ripped off thing. Ah I don't think the game really conveys clearly exactly what happens to me and. To find on exactly if what happened to Mia you have to get the best ending of the game so because by the way that best ending that the secrets at the end we are like defeat the ri defeat do do defeat defeat the Riverer man in digital space bycom challenges. That's that that is a lot of fun that was great to play through because like it it should be she be a very challenging trippy. 02:26:10.73 Greg Tense there's a time limit you're trying to race against District Bridge rich' race against time do race against time and do bra things like lead the counts and whatever. That's fun that that may be the best game in the game in the host he could fly the whole series for me right right? there. But anyway. but yeah but yeah I agree with you don't feel bad about that I think the best ending is that there's really only one where really the game clearly explains what happened to mina and why she did what she did maya sorry the the wrong person Maya Mia I can that. 02:26:36.63 Jala-chan Right? It kind of it feels definitely weak on. 02:26:46.32 Jala-chan Ah, well it. It definitely feels like the writing is just jointed at the end of the game because the ending that I got the first time that I played it with Rex. Like even what detective marillo says to you like at first he's like oh yeah, you know you're doing a good job. You did what you could or whatever and then like you know there's like a skip and then there's another scene and then he's like this is all your fault and in like a complete change. You know, complete one eighty from like his prior stance and it's like It definitely feels like the endings were not written at least like some of those endings were not written with like the exact flow in mind like they weren't play testing through those sequences in watching what happens you know what? I mean to make sure that it's all seamless. 02:27:37.16 Jala-chan Ah, it definitely shows some scenes and breaks down insofar as some of those other endings. So even though it has more endings. It's also like unless you're getting the good ending. It's probably just not ah as well executed. So. 02:27:56.40 Still Loading I'm glad I didn't feel alone there on that one. So thank you. 02:27:57.46 Jala-chan Yeah, so that's SIMULACRA 2 Greg run us through the plot of SIMULACRA 3 02:28:06.92 Greg Gladly. Ah so the story follows your investigation with ruby unlocking what happened to some of the missing people particular, you're focusing upon a man named Jeff who is Paul Cowork was pauls co-worker and your partner ruby decide. She wants to investigate investigate a company called mur tech. Where both Paul and Jeff worked Jeff you found out I saw the symbol of the simulacica on his pc and the sam like took him over or took him overlay the thing language spreads reach so ruby decides to free Paul's house to look for clues and this needs to encounter like the simulaca they which you helper out with. Ah, continuing on it's reveal that Paul has learned has learned in the past simulaco advance and he thinks that this one's evolved. It's usually the town's legend of a bench ah bedlam to pramps both fears and and overtake them and it and it does absorbed the digital identity of the ghost story. By. Everyone's sight photos and and photos of artwork in the town when a spprintt artist named Amy decides to extract revenge of town. She Summons Bedlam who is really the simulaca which is movinged into the other the bedlam and when this happens the simulaca crossed over into corporal space and I pray to people. Actually fly action the town one difference is that the prior games you had to eliminate simacus persona however, in this one Paul thinks the bedlum is too much to a part of st stone or stone creeks history to a race and he used the idea of how to potentially get rid of the simulac without race the bedlum. 02:29:39.77 Greg And carbon trueor in the story and you're placing the emaging of the bedlam in it as a magnificent as and magnificentent I can't say that word malevoence. Thank you force with the true benevolent form. Ah this will Brenda the simulla a benign and youre the. 02:29:46.41 Jala-chan Malevolent but benevolent. 02:29:58.50 Greg Andwi the end the game you have to talk ruby down from a delusional state onlocking each piece of the bedlam regre protocol which is a kill switch app a backdoor tool and the tri imagey the bedlam updated to tie and the symbol found everywhere and once you do this? The simulaca comes for ruby and then you have to talk her out of disappearing into it because her name. Spoken in a voice is the key to rewrite protocol. For reasons, we'll get into later on. Um there are 5 endings in this game a best ending a good ending where ruby dies a bedlam revenge ending a bed than revenge ending with ruby dies and the be um of like the bad ending. Ah, the curse town. 02:30:37.69 Jala-chan Right? right? So ah Josh doesn't have anything to say about this one because just did not play it. So ah yeah, so the way that this one is markedly different is that unlike the other games where the personas of actual people are being. 02:30:54.67 Jala-chan Basically absorbed by the SIMULACRA who is then killing their bodies in this one. The SIMULACRA is growing and evolving and changing and like you know, ah, the guy who's been researching everything Paul. Ah, who went missing whose phone you have who's trying to help you figure out. You know what's going on and try to help you fix the situation. Um, he has heard of the prior incidences of the SIMULACRA somehow and so he's aware because he he kind of like researches. You know, kind ofryptids and in weird history and everything so like and and he's also like a tech guy so that's probably how he heard he kind of heard the creepy pasta version of what happened with the other SIMULACRA incidents. So ah, he suspects that this is a SIMULACRA. But this one has basically taken over the persona of the beldume of Stone Creek who is a witch that everybody you know like the the legend goes that this witch you know was burned at the stake and. You know curse the town and this that and the other and so like people have sightings and they put these markings and these drawings everywhere and she's you know, villainized in all of this artwork and the SIMULACRA takes over this persona that is not even actually a real thing. 02:32:17.85 Jala-chan You know, like the the story is a so real story that's been corrupted over time and so the simulacqua takes this over and becomes actually this spooky entity that is more or less a ghost that is hunting down people and actually like manifesting in the real world. And eating people so you know like ah the Jeff guy that is Paul's co-worker that you happen to see some security footage of gets eaten by the bel dome and you know like there is a sequence. Where ruby is inside Paul's house trying to find more information that Paul might have had like in physical notes or something and when she's in there then suddenly the bell dome comes and you have to use Paul's security system to help ruby figure out where to go in the house to avoid getting. Ah. Attacked by the beldome and killed and so that's a really cool creepy pursuit slash dangerous situation that you have to navigate and all of that which is very unique to this game like they didn't have anything that complex before and um. The the way that this is solved is like well Paul has made different um different kind of inputs so he has written scripts and stuff to ah break down this social media app. 02:33:43.64 Jala-chan And wipe out everything in there that mentions the beldom that has all of these negative images and replace those with the actual history. The true history of what happened to the Bell Dome She was burned at the stake as a witch but she still loved the town and. You know this that and the other and it's one of those again one of those things that this developer does where it's like no actually the Bell dome was really a nice person who still loved the town under her dying breath and you know like you replace the imagery Of. Negative Belium with all of these positive things and people start coming across in the real world uncovering like the true story of you know the the actual belium and then the narrative changes and as the narrative changes because of this. Switch that happens on the social media apps over time The incidences of people disappearing and being eaten by the beldume start to fade because the SIMULACRA becomes a benign entity mirroring the presentation of the beldom. On the internet that was replaced by you during the gameplay. So um, it's weird because it's taking like a different stance. It's going in a different direction but it's still kind of par for the course for what this developer is doing because ah this is still dealing with an online persona. It's just. 02:35:11.26 Jala-chan Not you know directly causing like the death of a person's self in this case, it's uncovering a true self that has been maligned on the internet and you have to change the narrative around that maligned person who's basically been canceled by history right. 02:35:30.93 Jala-chan And you're undoing, somebody's cancellation and that changes the narrative and basically fixes the the cyber bullying if you will that is causing victims of other people. So it's it's interesting because it's going in a different direction entirely but it is kind of like. 02:35:50.33 Jala-chan A big shift from where it was going before like I still talking about your interactions with social media and devices and this that and the other and what you believe relative to that. 02:36:05.79 Jala-chan But instead of being about your personal connection. It's more about this group think. 02:36:12.80 Still Loading You I was I know I haven't played the game but based off this whole description. You went through I was about to say the same thing. It seems to me like this game is speaking more about how you. What the internet your relationship to the internet in terms of how you receive information from it and how group think ah pervades so much of it now, especially with how algorithms push things to people not even necessarily intentionally. But like if you. Look up 1 thing the algorithm's like I'll send you more of that thing and that sends you down rabbit holes into and that kind of where like the polarization of a lot of different politics and all this other stuff comes from and I feel like this is kind of like ah a version of that where it's like everyone had this thought about this you know. 02:37:00.83 Jala-chan Beldam. 02:37:02.18 Still Loading The bedlam or bed bedlum not Bedlam Bedlam is a Bell dam. Thank you on the Bell Dam and since it's kind of everyone's thought is of that then it's almost or everyone's opinion of this thing without really looking doing any research or much evidence sounds you know. Sounds a little bit like what the internet's like now. Ah turns in like turns it into a monster like they they're taking the idea of this misaligned group think and turning it into a monster that you would see in a game or like what that monster would look like in. 02:37:38.48 Jala-chan Right? right? And so like it is. It's taking a different tact. It's still kind of treating in the same stuff. It's just like again. It's kind of like it feels like it's a parallel track or something or a track that is parallel for a little while and then veers off. 02:37:39.64 Still Loading Person type of thing. 02:37:56.76 Jala-chan You know, just because the the shift of focus is not on you directly so much as it is you trying to affect how everyone else is interacting with something and it's really kind of you know, um, speaking more to like um. Independent research of facts and things like that which if you think about like okay so this game um came out. You know it was being developed during Pandemic so you know how much poo flinging was going on during pandemic by everybody. 02:38:33.12 Jala-chan About you know, ah different stuff about what was true information and the vaccines got the microchips in it or whatever the hell it was going on I don't know like all the different random stuff like let's let's inject bleach or drink bleach or whatever all that nonsense. So um. 02:38:52.81 Jala-chan You're thinking about that. It's very topical to what was going on at that time, especially and like we've only seen it double down these days I feel like. 02:39:02.86 Still Loading Well, what is it even just like what like earlier this week I mean this might be dating when we're recording the episode but that big alarm that went off for the testing of the the alert system there is that whole thread of some. Person thinking claiming that you know anyone who was vaccinated when this alarm goes off the 5 g waves are going to turn you into a zombie ah and just kind of like this this crazy pit of information like how misinformation can spread so easily when. 02:39:39.36 Still Loading It like when you do your own research that is a good thing but what are you researching? What are your so it it really is calling into a lot of a question like how do you research? and. This scheme I don't know I don't obviously I like I said I haven't played it So I don't know how deeply it addresses that but it does at least it seems like it touches on it. 02:39:56.30 Jala-chan Yeah, and like this game is not super long. So it's not got a lot of time to kind of dig in too too deep with that. But definitely. It makes sure to tell you that Paul has done this research to uncover the true belium and that he has. done a lot of talking to people he's done footwork he's gone to like libraries. He's gone to different physical locations. He's talked to a bunch of different people. He found books he found resources. He saw some stuff and then he posted about it on the internet on his website but like. You know he got the information by hoofing it and doing it. The old-fashioned way which um, again like that's something that was in 1 of the books that I mentioned in the prior episode about internet and identity that was about it was called the internet of us. It is a very good book. And it calls into question like a lot of philosophical questions about just like the internet and how we engage with it. But it also talks about For example, how the way that people like look up information anymore is Google knowing and Google knowing is. Basically the first hit on Google is your answer and nobody looks any further than that they don't bother to see what is the source that this information is coming from. Is it trustworthy. What's the studies behind it this that and the other. 02:41:24.10 Jala-chan You know, like the information that we get. It's so readily available at our fingertips that you know we're not digging too deep to actually vet our sources or you know to find out the exact truth of the situation and we see this a lot with boomers on you know Facebook. 02:41:40.94 Jala-chan And oh I saw this thing on on Facebook then it told me you know this thing. Well, that's just a thing on Facebook. It's not real, but it told me and why would my friend share this thing if it wasn't true. Well your friend didn't actually do their research either. You know hig. It's it's this whole thing and that's how this misinformation spreads and that's really what this game is kind of treating in Greg we haven't heard from you in a while. 02:42:07.24 Greg Um, well once again I thought you guys did a great job summarizing like summarizing but most of the points. 02:42:14.95 Jala-chan Ah, Greg's like I read the whole summary I don't want to talk I'll wait. Yeah. 02:42:19.91 Greg Ah, um, but yeah, so ah, there is a lot of this game that I like um, you know, um, the the acting and the writing in this game was the best of the whole series I thought um, you know, especially like you know like Ruby I thought Biden this game is great. The puzzles I thought were ruby that puzzle I thought like were very good. They were not they were they were not as difficult from me to solve as and that as the past games which I appreciate it I thought there were some pretty unique puzzles such just the such the whole like the ruby skip the house caber security camera system which was fun and also and also like I also say you have to like? ah. And also I have to like use the map to retrace paths. So ah, where someone was seen whatnot like it's very fun. Um, there's um, ah the overall presentation of this game was with like the like was thought and great. Ah I just didn't. Um, ah, um, oh the overall the overall plot I thought also was fine the whole like you know I enjoyed the you know I enjoyed the change like the witch aspect of like you know you know like I got very like new england vibe of like you know the the old town the witches in the urban name. The legends thatve cir circle around for hundred years but no that's all great I thought that was like a great for background cheerio they're just there' there's just something in this game I'm not sure. Um, don't I much try getting exactly exactly put my finger on it but didn't click from me as well and this game is in the past games which is why this game overall overall watched or liked it I'd ring. It. The weakest of the 4 games. 02:43:53.10 Greg Um, just that. Um, maybe the whole the whole Simulica thing in this game felt kind of like an afterthought to me. It wasn't um, it wasn't as well developed as the past games as I said before I thought the production buy of this game was stoutth. Like but a bit more rushed and or less money spent on it because of the you know the less less people involved all the Fm Bs Um, ah heard or what not I thought the whole rewriting reality with the best ending thing was kind of that wonky Also because it's like it's like. The other games had good presentable ideas about like you you know like ah like you know like so of social media and like online gaming and and what what whatnot but this one this one's kind of like yes, there's yes, there's the point you guys mentioned previously of positive developer are sure they both are trying to get.. It's like but it's like I kind of thought the whole. Wrap up for the rate for the good ending one not was kind of like a little bit head scratching to me as far as as far as I went good. This is what the good you because the get the tone felt so different than the past games. It's like the good ending in this game really is a good ending more so than in the past games. This is you know, get the best ending in this game. It really is. There really is a happy ending. You know, Obviously obviously people obviously people are dead Damage has been done whatever but the prospects going forward are the best in this game than the past games and as much as I Love good Endings I Also kind of thought a bit disappointed in the sense that it didn't give you the same. 02:45:29.33 Greg Um, ah, uncertainty kind of dredge feeling that even the best ends of the past games gave to you so I guess maybe it's a combination of combination of reasons why this game just didn't land for me assaultly as the past games did even though I thought mechanically this game is great as far as ah, um. Like as far as writing the puzzles and they have puzzles and the acting and the act and whatnot. There's just things about the there's there's things about the overall theme and the plot and what they're trying to go with this why why? I love the overall plot. The idea there's just certain things that just didn't like execute. Well well 1 reason are another. And maybe just me it sounds like they worked better with you joea than they were with me but just like but in the end but the end of the tip it within a day I just like huh. Okay, that was something um you know it didn't it didn't have the um this game did not have the same impact with me flex that the games the series did. 02:46:21.29 Jala-chan Right? So I will say that like this the simulac with 3 didn't land for me the same way that 1 or 2 did um I still think that one had the most like emotional impact of all of these. Um. 02:46:38.95 Jala-chan And SIMULACRA too was kind of the sweet spot of you know, having different mechanics to engage with and also having like those horror elements and stuff like this one. The third one is is interesting. They do some cool things with the mechanics that I do like a lot. 02:46:57.92 Jala-chan And the way that they pivoted to talking about like different theming is cool. Um, you know I like that because that's also an interesting topic to bring up but again that shift from it being a personal. Interaction to being like a general interaction is I think where it falls flat for me and you know the beldo and you know like oh you know this this simuloc returns into a ghost. Well, that's that's not as compelling as like the SIMULACRA. Has been taking over people and then making their bodies commit suicide against their will like that's really Compelling. You know like that's really like whoa that's gripping you know versus you know or these people are so desperate. 02:47:44.81 Still Loading Um, that's metal man. 02:47:51.51 Jala-chan You know because their entire everything is online to the fact that they are all very flawed flawed people and then they they end up deciding to even sacrifice their own physical bodies willingly to keep their digital persona is like. You know that's also really impactful and you know an interesting and gripping kind of thing and like you know the person who disappears into the game. That's even just like this boring game. That's not like great and you know having to interact with these. Cheesy ads all the time and everything and that's that's what he's decided to pump his everything into until his body literally vanishes. Wow you know like that's that's some power of depression and like really needing to reach out and like you know be with people. You know and like and all of these things give you reasons to really reflect on yourself and your own attitudes and your own decisions whereas while the third game does bring up some really interesting food for thought and stuff. 02:49:00.17 Jala-chan And like yes, the narrative you have to be careful about like what you assume is true and from where where are your sources coming from and this that and the other this is 100 % correct but it's not something that's going to make you go huh I really should think about this because. I could be eaten by a ghost like I ok like that that that doesn't have the same gripping element to it as kind of what what what? the repercussions were in the other games. 02:49:29.66 Still Loading It kind of feels like you know the first couple games you have this, you know if you're if you're looking at if they're all like different monsters. The first one is this you know, maybe it's a little demonic looking at creepy eyes a second one is you know. 02:49:47.60 Still Loading Ah, what it makes people just disappear. So maybe that's the most intimidating looking of them all the third 1 ripple man you know, maybe he just kind of his body like grotesque looking or something along that and then then the fourth one is just a dude in a ghost sheet it just it feels like all of them are these hyped up things and then. 02:50:07.52 Still Loading You get to sim me lockrab 3 and it's just a guy in a ghost sheet and I he would have gotten in away with it too if it wasn't for us melin kids. 02:50:10.90 Greg Well well why I do agree of all that I will say however that this game but this game Definitely definitely definitely had you feel the most engaged you know, especially especially, especially the end part for the best ending where you find to like where Ruby basically is just. 02:50:30.75 Greg Just just about the cusp of the cus you take you over like with Simul lock and and you get the chance to talk her back from the edge to save her ah that I love doing that because because you actually have a chance in this game to save somebody. We don't and if we like go the past games you have a chance to actually yeah, you. Percance you at do you have Chanceor to actually actually engage in a way that the past gains Plots didn't allow you to because in the past games you're just an observer I mean you I mean? Yes, Yes, you can You can affect things and you affect things. But in this game you you this game your actions can your actions can your actions can your actions can actually. Save a person's life somebody you care about and if they like give you a close. Um, um, they attached to in some way and that part I Loved you know I thought that um, you know, but so like I will say I thought that part was the most redeeming of those. 02:51:26.69 Greg Red being part of the game's plot in this the plot in the sense that it by sense that the game actually rewarded you for your for your brain power of your puzzle solvbbing and actions. Whatever the game that the past games didn't. 02:51:37.98 Jala-chan Right? right? and you know it's it's kind of interesting because you know there's there's a lot of sugar that we talk about pipe dreams and 2 and 3 but we still keep. All uniformly coming back to 1 and just like how gripping the presentation was there as much as we can be like well the writing was better and the presentation was better and all of the mechanics were better in all of these other games or 1 of these other games. You know, um. We still keep coming back to that first one for what they were doing originally and you know. 02:52:13.92 Greg I wonder maybe if some of the reason that is to like do that again was just first I mean it was our first exposure to those ideas like my theme and your first exposure that's always gonna be the strongest. 02:52:25.67 Jala-chan Right? right? because it's interesting because like you can play any of these games without having played any of the other games. You don't have to play them in any order. You don't have to play them numerically or whatever you can play just one of them and it's fine. Ah, you know they are not directly connected to each other. 02:52:42.88 Jala-chan So you know you you can play any of these if any of these sound interesting to you and you just don't care about spoilers and decided you were going to listen to the whole episode. You know, whatever. Ah thank you for listening this far. But um, yeah, you can play any of them in any of these orders and it might be. 02:53:00.73 Jala-chan That you know that was the first one that all of us played and therefore that is the strongest memory that we have associated with this but I did just recently replay all of them back-to-back and I still prefer what was going on in that first one. In just like some of the ways that they were trying to scare you in some of the ways that you know like you sit with Anna or Anna and you are really just like seeing inside of her like you you do with ruby at the end of 3 you don't really. The rest of the time and then in two there were so many characters that you just don't really get too much time with them and then with Teddy in pipe dreams. You see it sometimes but it's like toggled back and forth between the SIMULACRA and teddy himself. And both of those 2 like toggling back and forth between each other so like it's not consistent and it's via text so you're not seeing the way that you see with Ana where you've got the video and that makes a difference like that acting and having those moments be the ones that you see the videos for. Is really important. So I think if 3 or 2 had like if 2 had more likable characters in it that would have helped. 02:54:24.95 Jala-chan And if in three Ruby had some more like vulnerable moments before that ending to kind of generate some earlier you know liking of that character before you get to like her vulnerable state at the end then that would have been even more high stakes and you would be feeling more grip. 02:54:44.49 Jala-chan You know, gripped by the story. At that point, you know as gripping as it already is it would have been more so if she had had some moments with you earlier in the game where you could see her so ah but the thing is is that. This conceit for that game is not that you have Ruby's phone you're not going to see her in that state because she's busy doing an investigation and she's a star reporter. So by the nature of that game. You're not going to see it the same way that you would if you have honest personal phone. 02:55:14.64 Greg There's us the fact these are all like mobile games which are done to be short I don't they really couldn't they really couldn't have developed her developed her or anybody else approved for that matter in like a 3 4 hour game. You know like we said before it's impressive. It's impressive of how much. Seemed like a 2 they're able to cram into that game and in that time period with other people characters things going on. It's like that's a difference between like a 4 hour game versus like a 40 hour day a 40 hour game that could have a 40 hour game they could have like done that and we just more attachment. It's a tradeoff. 02:55:44.27 Greg Foot to trade up. Unfortunately you fight the trail unfortunately like these be like mobile games. 02:55:48.90 Jala-chan And you know like I would love to see like ah a I don't know if a 40 hour game of this style but like um, you know like a longer game of double the length or something from these devs. It would be great to see. 02:55:57.43 Greg Yeah I will achieve them only. Yeah yeah. 02:56:01.26 Still Loading I do think the reason why SIMULACRA 2 though has that kind of that you know we don't have the same emotional attachment to it I don't even necessarily think it's because it wasn't the first one we played I think it's because if you look at the first game. Anna is shown as a sympathetic care. You are sympathetic to her because of the ordeals she is going through teddy you are sympathetic to him because of the ordeals he is going through with Maya. It is maya right? I'm now I'm just just want to for some reason it's the mina maya thing I keep painting them mixed up but with maya. 02:56:27.46 Jala-chan Yes, Maya. 02:56:36.96 Still Loading With Maya You Do n't get to know her too. Well so you don't really have any empathy towards her really because the only she's an influencer like the other characters that you meet and what are all the other characters assholes. So all that you have a relation to in terms of the influencer world as the way this game portrays it as there are a bunch of narcissistic assholes. So you're not going to really feel nearly as much empathy for the victim of that first game for the first for the primary character that you're trying to hunt track down and find. So when you find out that you know she accepts the deal and she's gone. It's like oh well I never really knew her in the first place so too bad and if she interacted with these people on a regular basis I don't know if she's a good person at all versus everyone else that you at least in the prior 2 games. These are people who are genuinely trying to better themselves in some way shape or form in life keeps getting in the way versus with mayats feels a lot more self-inflicted so it's a lot harder to find empathy for her. 02:57:41.79 Jala-chan Right? right? and it's kind of like that too with ah three because ruby ah so Paul Paul is missing but you don't get to see into Paul's life at all, you just know him as the guy who tells you all this stuff and you basically already know that he's going to die because there's no way he can live. Um, not knowing as much as he knows. But um, the ruby though she's like the star reporter and then you find out that you know she's trodden on people in the past. So like you get this whole like oh she's not the best person either. But you have to have faith in her too and then try to talk her. Back from the edge because she's about you know she starts to feel guilty about the stuff that she did in the past which you know that's a mark of somebody changing but you know she's she's feeling like that and you have to kind of pull her back from the brink and. All of that and like the the reason why her name spoken in her voice is the code word for unlocking everything to get rid of the beldem and ah rather to um, do the rewrite protocol for the beldo is because. Paul believes in her and believes in her capacity to so you know do this to get through this to make things right to see the good and then to you know make make changes to how she's doing stuff. 02:59:03.61 Jala-chan And so it's Paul's faith in her that is the reason why she is the key to everything so it's again like that faith aspect. But it's a faith between 2 characters that are not you and you have a part. Because you have to talk her down from being on the edge where the SIMULACRA is about to take her over but at the same time like I don't care about ruby the same way that I cared about Ana you know and I'm not going to like it's just not going to happen. So. 02:59:39.35 Jala-chan To yeah I got nothing else I got nothing else we covered it. We covered it y'all? ah. 02:59:42.44 Greg Um, yeah, so yeah, definitely. Ah my final thought I think these games are definitely like worthre playing. It's really impressive to me how much they've packed into a small package I e like being like short mobile games. It's like. Like it's like we spent the whole podcast talking about how well they did some things versus didn't do things but overall in the day I'm glad I play these games because it's like it's really impressive how much how much the depths were able to convey into this bite size game if you will because these games these games are these games are going to stick with me. Ah, for a while and um so and that's what I say for like ah for a lot of other games that there's but this you you know you know there's much more games I play that you know that equivalent of like popcorn movies. It's like you know you watch. Um you you play you have phone with them you know and you get about to play one month later you know certain games on their hands stick with you for a long time and these games and these games will stick with me and like you know from mobile game. that's that's a very impressive. That's not an easy thing to do so I like so like so like so flaws aside I think these games are still great to play for that recent and like ja said before these games are often cheap. 03:00:54.86 Greg Um, you know you and their playload both on like a pure and also like on the phone so pick your poison. Um, you know Yeah the nature of this game at all sounds interesting to you like somebody said before pipe res is free give pipe remes a shot for first to see if you like it and they're like and maybe do. Because this is not a big chunk your your chunk your life to play these games. So and that's what I said I really I really I really would love to see a war games more games like this developer and b more games like this because it's like it's really it. It be just because really impressive about like trying to get a full game movie experience into like. Ah, 3 hour game so just kudos. Ah, ah just kudos overall the developers um, as flaw as some of the games may be the the overall the overall package is just like excellent. Just just they're just like all the way across. 03:01:49.32 Jala-chan Right? And 1 thing I did want to mention really briefly is like we already talked about it. But these games to me feel like they are the most immersive with headphones on a cell phone. Um and like I just recently was listening to. Ah, friend of the show fun in games podcast ah Matt storm and ah Jeff Moonan they were talking about video game preservation on a recent episode of their show. And in that show you know they were talking about like focusing on the games and emulation and and you know like how libraries will stash some games and stuff like that. But also how the hardware is failing and this that and the other which got me thinking about this game and also other kinds of mobile games because there's another game I mentioned it earlier. Called the company which is a puzzle game and it manipulates the actual hardware of the phone. It uses the gyro it uses you know like um, just the physicality of the phone where you have to do some certain things with the phone to solve some of the puzzles. Look at it from a certain angle or do a certain physical thing with your phone in order to proceed and to get the puzzle and move on to the next part of the story and so like games like that or something like a bulk tie which Greg had mentioned in the green room. 03:03:15.86 Jala-chan Where it's like you know, using the hardware to a very specific end even if you emulate something like that in the future If if this game becomes unavailable then like you're going to miss that experience completely and SIMULACRA is not one of those where I feel like. You know it's completely lost if you don't have it on a cell phone but it definitely to me. It felt more immersive to have it on a phone with my earbuds in. So um, you know, just something to consider and something to think about ah in terms of like this is ah one of those experiences where the hardware like the the thing that you're playing it On. Does make a bit of a difference. So yeah, but yeah, like these games even though my favorite 1 is the first one I don't regret my time with any of the entries in this series. Ah, they are all cool and interesting and do different things. 03:04:11.60 Jala-chan And I like to see the innovations of what they are doing with each one of them and I like them all. It's just that I happen to have more strong feelings towards you know the character of Anna in the first game. And Josh what about you for wrap up. 03:04:33.39 Still Loading Ah I I mean yeah I I echo a lot of the stuff that you guys were so you guys have said um for me I really did enjoy my time with this I also enjoyed the first one the most um it. I think what I find interesting about all these ah there is something to enjoy with pretty much all these I wasn't a big fan of pipe dreams all that much. It was I don't know what it was it was harder for me to get immersed into that one. Maybe it was because it was the only one I played on the computer and I had got to play the other two on my phone. And like you said Jala I do ah I agree with you for for me these games work best on a phone with headphones and to kind of tie in without going because I could go off on a whole tangent about game history. That's one of my passions but um, context is super important when you're talking about. Preserving video games and knowing the context of what these games were intended for makes a big difference and and being able to play it within the proper context does help a lot not saying it's it's going to be a make or break like Greg you mentioned before you enjoyed all of these games playing on steam. So. It's not an end all be all, um. But for me having the having the phone in that that context to it really added added to my experience. Overall there was something I enjoyed with with each even ah, overall there was something I enjoyed with each of these even pipe dreams which I did not enjoy all that much. But I still enjoyed the thematic elements. 03:06:04.24 Still Loading Of these games even if they weren't always overtly like you know putting it and putting it right on front street. You know they weren't trying to beat you over the head with the themes. But maybe the second one more than the other more the others I played were ah was a little bit more overt were. You know all of the influencers are awful people and maybe making a little bit of social commentary there but I enjoyed playing all of them I think it's worth giving these a shot I I remember when I was playing to in preparation for this I would go up to. The coworker I mentioned earlier who was confused about the whole phone screen and didn't realize I was playing a game type of thing and I talked to him about the kind of questions this game posits you know like what are you willing to do for fame and if you do get it or what are you willing to do to keep it and. How do you deal with ah being bullied online and what type of person. Are you do you What type of what version of you are you putting out into the ether into the online world and whatnot. So I really enjoyed the themes and everything with this game and I enjoy the gameplay I like I mentioned before with the paper trail thing in infamous I love this type of. Ah, found phone detective style it. It feels a little bit more real in ah in a sense where it's kind of fun to be able to figure out the logic that the game developers want you to use in order to solve puzzles and so yeah, it's it's worth a shot even if you don't like horror games which like I've said before I do not. 03:07:33.62 Still Loading I Still really enjoyed this game I think it's worth trying. 03:07:34.28 Jala-chan Yeah, so all of that being our wrap-up thoughts. Let's give everybody our socials so first and foremost Greg where can people find you on the internet if you are to be found anywhere. 03:07:52.11 Greg Well, the main thing I do online is supers podcast which I mentioned previously which I do twice a month like my cos Joe talking me about obviously super nes games. Um so likes the main podcast is located on on pinecast. We can also like find it pretty easy previously by being a Google like for pretty easy pre diabetes. The Google search we also ah yeah we we also we also have Facebook Page we can also like fine stuff but um, find something like you so wish. 03:08:23.80 Jala-chan Yeah, and Josh where can people find you on the internet. 03:08:29.14 Still Loading You can find me, we're all good podcasts are given for free. You know all the normal podcast plays for still loading podcast on social media. You can follow me at still loading pod on pretty much ever. All the places Twitter because I refuse to call it. The other thing. Ah, blue sky threads um twitch though I'm not as active on Twitch currently um and at still loading podcast on Youtube and yeah, you can find the show and me and all that other stuff about those places. 03:09:01.35 Jala-chan Yahoo and of course I am @jalachan in all the places that I may be found including jalachan.place where you found this episode and all of the others that is all for now folks until next time take care of yourself and remember to smile. [Show Outro] Jala Jala-chan's Place is brought to you by Fireheart Media. If you enjoyed the show, please share this and all of our episodes with friends and remember to rate and review us on your podcast platform of choice. Word of mouth is the only way we grow. If you like, you can also kick us a few bucks to help us keep the lights on at ko-fi.com/fireheartmedia. Check out our other show Monster Dear Monster: A Monster Exploration Podcast at monsterdear.monster. Music composed and produced by Jake Lionhart with additional guitars and mixed by Spencer Smith. Follow along with my adventures via jalachan.place or find me at jalachan in places on the net! [Outro Music]