[Show Intro] Jala Hey, thanks for coming! I'm glad you're here. Come on in! Everyone's out on the patio right now. Looks like a couple of people are in the garden. I can't wait to introduce you! Can I get you anything? [turned away] Hey folks, our new guest is here! [Intro music] 00:00.00 Jala Hello world and welcome to Jala-chan's Place. I'm your host Jala Prendes (she/her) and today I am joined by probably the greatest podcaster in the world Will Hughes (he/him) whom many listeners will know from The AV Club and Everything to Guppy podcast from Duckfeed.tv. Hi Will, how are you doing today? 00:20.60 Will Hi Jala I'm immediately on my back foot after being described as the greatest podcaster of all time and now must live up to it I'm very excited about this. 00:30.78 Jala Yeah I know so I was how this episode came about is I was listening to the audiobook of like a Poirot collection and then you were like I love Poirot, down with Holmes and so I was like oh hey Will how serious are you about this? Do you want a podcast about this. 00:41.00 Will Sure. 00:50.52 Jala So here we are you know. 00:51.19 Will I'm I'm pretty I'm pretty serious about it Poirot Forever I'm gonna mess. 00:57.71 Jala Poirot like did you just did you just channel Texas because that's where I'm at I mean. 01:03.48 Will I don't know I did just why I watched A Glass Onion not that long ago. So maybe I've got a little Ben Wa Blanc in my throat a row and I'm already writing fan fiction. 01:11.80 Jala Yeah, yeah, there you go. So yeah, we are going to sit on Agatha Christie in general, Poirot as a character and then kind of delve into Murder on the Orient Express which is of course the title of this episode and basically we picked that as the one because that is probably the one that most people know when they know about a Poirot/Agatha Christie thing. So it's pretty much synonymous with her work and with Poirot overall so it's probably it's also probably I think one of the ones that has been adapted the most for tv and movies and stuff. So. 01:58.60 Will Yeah, it's definitely one of ah like there's no, it's It's the most famous I don't think it's her best book I don't think it's even the best par wrote book. Ah, but and honestly God I think partly it's just it's her best title. 02:12.41 Will I think which makes it very funny that it was not published under that title in the US from what I was looking at. It's like it was originally published in the US is like murder on the cal a coach or something which is not as good. 02:26.20 Jala No no, it doesn't have the kind of ah foreign mystique of like oh the orient express that sounds like way cooler and it was actually the old 70 s movie was my first introduction to Poirot at all. Um. 02:41.38 Jala I watched the original 70s movie and I don't know why or how but I thought it was really neat at that time I do not know how old I was when I rewatched it I was like oh I was losing my mind a little bit but um, you know we'll get there. We'll talk about that. So but Agatha Christie herself 03:01.41 Jala Is one of the most highly translated most most often translated authors of all time and she's also been very very. She was very prolific. She wrote 66 novels 14 short story collections and also the world's longest running play the mouse trap. So yeah. 03:21.44 Will Don't don't spoil. It don't spoil it sworn to secrecy that that's that's the thing like at the end of that play. The audience is always sworn to secrecy not to reveal the ending. 03:32.18 Jala Ah, okay, okay, yeah, it only actually shut down for just a few months during the beginning of the covid pandemic so it's been going forever and of course agathachristieco.com says that she is the. Bestselling novelist of all time which I don't know if that's true or not but whatever. It's fine. They can do your horn. Yeah well the thing is we were talking very very briefly in the green room about it. Agatha Christie's writing style is pretty plain. 03:50.18 Will I Can we can. We can give it to her. Why not. 04:03.29 Jala Um, it's not like reading something like a woodhouse which of course on this podcast. We did a Jeeves episode or even. 04:11.14 Will I'm ah I'm a big woehouse fan and your yeah Agatha like there's an anecdote that Douglas Adams tells in one of in his ah his like last memoir book where he's talking about the woehouse process of like. Different like snippets of language being put on a board on the wall and slowly rising up it as he like refined it into these perfect delivery systems. Christy did not do that. 04:32.79 Jala Oh no, in fact, she pretty much wrote herself into a corner on a lot of different instances. Say For example, when it came to trying to portray poro on screen or in a play or whatever. First off, she was very very against having any kind of adaptation but also everybody kept on questioning say for example, you say that he has a perfectly egg shapeped head and then she had written in some memoir or something like what does that even mean like well you wrote it I don't know what to tell you you know. 05:10.61 Jala So I mean it's serviceable and I think it's because it is so um, basically plain That's why it's so accessible and easy to read for a lot of people because it's not like ah a Highfalutin prose. You know. 05:24.32 Will Yeah, it's it's fairly straightforward. Ah, she has a knack for creating characters that I would call ah broad but recognizable ah like most of the Christie novels. 05:39.23 Will You've got about like 6 or 7 various characters drawn from extremely broad types of basically like coming out of like a standard pool of like oh here's like the the kind of like almost like ah like ah a birdie wooster type and you have. 05:57.53 Will Young onjanu and you have you know all these like and that you know the more often than not ethnic stereotype a little bit. Ah yeah I And yet there's a. 06:11.95 Will I think partly that there's a liveliness to the detectives whether we're talking about polro or Miss Marple that I think I think she does for all that Christie talked about not liking poro after a while. Um I think she likes writing him to some extent this fussy little man. 06:26.81 Jala Well she herself was a fussy little woman. So I mean like going and reading a biography about her I was like yeah she's pretty she pretty just like hermudgonly herself about a lot of things so you know. 06:43.22 Jala It it just kind of is par for the course she's really kind of writing herself in Puiro a little bit even though of course she's not like a little belgian guy but you know. 06:48.29 Will Well and marble. Both of them are pretty much Agatha Christie solving mistreas in different ways. 06:55.80 Jala Well, she even had a sidekick character for poro that was poking fun at herself. It was like an aspiring author I forget the name of that character. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, Oliver I think you're I think you're right I think it's Oliver. So. 07:05.30 Will Ah, aria a all. Ah Oliver I think something I think that. 07:13.13 Jala So yeah, but she was writing poro the poro mysteries in a holmesian fashion like basically using the recipe that sir Arthur clonan Doyle had and you know having his know-it- all guy and his. Doofy Sidekick who doesn't always have the right answer you know and is yeah, exactly? Yeah well well the thing is is sometimes he kind of strikes close or is almost there and then he just flops it every time. So. 07:30.48 Will Never has the right answer 1 of the dumbest sidekicks in all of mystery fiction captain Captain Hastings is a incredible idiot. 07:44.70 Will It is. 07:48.70 Jala Um, one thing I will say that is markedly different about a porro mystery versus a sherlock holmes mystery is the fact that there are actually clues that you can follow in a Christie book to try to piece it together now. There's usually a piece of information that you are not given that ties everything up, but. 08:07.54 Jala You can actually follow and get some idea of where it's going if you read attentively whereas in homes. It's always like a big reveal and nobody knew anything because they didn't tell you so. 08:16.65 Will Yeah I puarro is certainly closer to a fair play mystery I don't think I've ever successfully like I've read probably a dozen puarro books and I don't think I've ever successfully like spotted all the threads or anything but that just might be I'm a bad detective. 08:35.84 Will And it's good that I don't try to solve murders. 08:36.61 Jala Well, the thing is that already knowing the solution to murder on the orient express when I was going through and reading the book and you know highlighting notes and stuff like that I was making notes of different pieces of information as I was going through it. 08:53.99 Jala You know that leads you down one trail or another and so like I was making notes but it's only really because I already knew the answer because I've read this book many times that it's like okay well it's easier for me to see it and know what's important information versus just fluff. So but that makes a that makes a reread good though you know. 09:14.37 Will And of course yeah I So I I did not reread the book for this I apologize I am ah I'm a terrible guest and I deserve to be ah route. 09:23.95 Jala You was the greatest podcast time in the world though. It's fine. You know I cannot do accents to save my life. Don't I know that was. 09:28.80 Will Yeah, no, that was that that was perfect that was poro I I don't I don't know. 09:36.15 Jala Was it Oh well if it did I don't know that it did that but we'll we'll we'll go with that if you say so I will go with that if. 09:44.78 Will And greatest podcast of all time I did I did watch the David Susha ah adaptation of it and that was obviously knowing the ah the solution that is a very interesting one to watch because I think that they I think that that one was probably made for people. Knew the solution given that it's part of the Agatha Christie's paulrow series. Ah for obsessive nerds like me. Um, and I do think that they are very much playing with they aren't necessarily trying to hide things very much. 10:14.80 Jala No well there are 3 main adaptations and then one japanese adaptation that I could not get a hold of because it's very expensive and as much as I love this podcast and I have dedication to study and research. 10:16.90 Will Like everyone's very nervous. The moment puaro shows up. 10:33.67 Jala I'm not paying like seventy eighty dollars to get a hold of it and I didn't want to try to go find on ah the pirate site. So anyway, um, there are 3 main adaptations. There's the 70 s version. There's the David susha and then there's also the Kenneth Branoff 1 now I watched the. 70 s and the David susha and I did not do the brana one because I watched the trailer and then in the middle of the trailer like it's doing all this stuff like I'm like okay this is like a modernized version of Poro I'm getting into it I'm getting into it I can. 11:04.98 Will These are a lot of like people I recognize like all in these very again, extremely stock characters. 11:10.16 Jala Um, yeah, it's so stocked that they have like little name cards that pop up for them and so yeah and that's great I mean like okay I can see how this would be a good movie. Great great, great and then. 11:17.20 Will Yeah, like it's clue. 11:26.55 Jala Imagine Dragon starts playing with Believer and I'm just like I got sent into a vor is just like I almost threw my phone just like what is this? What is this perro would be so mad. 11:38.75 Will Yeah, like brana like I have not watched either of the the brana ah Poarro films because in my head I will never stop thinking of brana as his incredibly ridiculous performance from Wild Wild West but ah, ah, but. 11:55.57 Will What I like the the accent sounds fine. He looks about right? But yeah, the moment he's like I am Hercule Puro and I am the great I may be the greatest detective in the world. Ah, and then imagine dragons come soaring in. 12:11.67 Jala Yeah, it was just so much and I'm like okay I can't and every review that I've read about that movie says that Ranov does not ah waste any opportunity to put himself as paro. As center stage even in places where it doesn't really need to be all about him in that particular moment because you know he's one of how many characters but you know I digress. The whole point is like yeah, but really, um, the reviews and stuff say yeah this is pretty. 12:32.64 Will Plus yeah plus the Johnny depp of it all. 12:42.94 Jala Good except yeah, it's really just Kenneth Branaugh wanting to be in the middle of everything and be you know, right up on the stage and you know that that was one of the biggest dings I've seen about against that movie. But anyway. 12:56.44 Will And and then of course we are ah perpetrating Alfred Molina erasure right now. Ah because he did do the a Tv movie version of yeah I have not seen it. The reviews are very bad. It's one of the ones where they try to give porro a love interest which they also do in ah in the second. 13:09.78 Jala Oh death on the nile. 13:14.20 Will Brana movie apparently I and and I am I am of the opinion that puarro does not love in that way. 13:22.88 Jala No poro is in love with himself and his mustache and that's about all, he's got room and time for so. 13:30.28 Will And a kind of mild patronizing affection for various British stereotypes of upper class idiots. 13:39.17 Jala Yeah, he always calls himself pop up huaro and here we are so that's that's his role. But yeah, ah, the 74 movie going back and watching that was interesting because. Like there's ah, there's a lot of ways in which I'm like okay I can file follow this I'm I'm okay with this but I don't like the guy who plays Puiro. Ah yeah, Albert Albert Finney yeah yeah Yeah, so so there's that and then. 14:01.50 Will That's ah Peter otinov right? Or no, it's Albert Finney Albert Finney sorry I think I think ustenov played him in something else in and not worryan express. 14:12.94 Jala Um, Paro he really looks like Al Pacino as big boy and Dick Tracy in that movie. He absolutely does and he has like a goon laugh. So like the first time you see him and he's meeting up with monsie bo which is not miss your book in this when I forget what they called him something else and they made him italianion for some reason. 14:27.69 Will People always mess with that like every adaptation is like this This friend character is unsatisfying. How do we fix. 14:35.92 Jala But it's just that one scene like I need to find a clip of that and send it to you because he super looks like Al Pacino as Big Boy it's just I don't know if it's because I have Dick Tracy on the brain because I'm going to be doing an episode about that next spring I don't know but. 14:50.96 Will He certainly looks like he's wearing a puaro costume. 14:55.56 Jala Yeah, he's almost kind of Gomez because he's got like this this super crunched up shoulders like um oh fester festerish where he's got the crunched up shoulders but crossed with Gomi so it's a real weird look but I don't know. 15:10.64 Jala And Mrs Hubbard comes across in that movie is really really different because she's very aristocratic looking until she opens her mouth and that's just very different and there's a lot of like. Oh my gosh brown people terrifying. Yeah the white people are terrified of the brown people kind of thing to the point that there's the missionary lady and she's like I helps the brown baby and I'm like oh my god wow. Okay, this is definitely seventies. Yeah yeah, um I was born backwards. 15:33.95 Will Cool cool. 15:42.40 Jala That is why I worked in Africa as missionary teaching little brown babies more backward than myself. Wow that that did not age. Well. 15:50.63 Will Cool. Ah, and um and I mean you know there is the fact that ah anything like that those characters are. We're okay to talk about like plot spoilers right? All those characters are lying. Ah. 16:01.19 Jala Yes. 16:06.79 Will At least to some extent. But even so that is that is very ridiculous. 16:09.34 Jala Well and one I will say there was one part in the movie that sent me into fits of laughing and that's this one part where poarro is talking to Arbuthnet who is Sean Connery and he says is this your peep cleaner like pipe cleaner but he says peep and then arbi is like. 16:28.22 Jala No, it's not my peep cleaner and it's just this funny exchange where they keep on saying peep cleaner and I don't know it just sent me into a fit of laughter because it was just so nonsense in the middle of this very serious movie. So and the music in that movie is also super whimsical which also doesn't. Really fit like a murder mystery vibe to me but I don't know. Overall my biggest complaint about that movie is just like poro is just a weird little guy but he's not like a charming weird little Guy. He's just a weird little guy. Yeah, and I'm just like I don't know he's not really, he's not. 16:56.69 Will Yeah, there's just a weird little man on a train. 17:05.60 Jala Doing it for me as parrow you know? So yeah and I can absolutely see why because I did not partake of like I've probably watched some of the Tv when I was younger. But um I don't know. 17:08.33 Will Yeah, for me, there is no puro but David Suchet 17:24.10 Jala I don't remember a whole lot about it I remember seeing David Susha as paro but I didn't um, actively go and and seek it out I don't know why but when I was watching the movie version of you know or well. Ah, made for Tv movie 90 minute movie that they did as an episode a longer episode of the show for season 12 ah I was just like yeah David Sushet yeah he's broadly accepted as being like the best rendition of puerro and I can see why like he gets the look. He gets you know. 17:57.99 Jala Ah, the kind of ah I don't know just the the whole ambiance I don't know. 18:04.70 Will Yeah, it's so Agatha Christie's Paro which is I think the formal name of the show ah was like always on Tv in my house. My mom was a big christie fan is still a big christie fan I did not mean to make her posthumous with ah. 18:21.81 Will So and it ran on Pbs usually I think just as part of mystery. Ah so it was it was just always on when I was a kid and I would just sit down and like watch some of it and it's that for one thing I I had not watched any of that stuff that they had made and like you know they made orient express in like. 18:41.37 Jala Yes, Twenty ten 18:41.63 Will 2010 or something like that. Um suha played the character for I think thirty some years ah so I had not seen any of this latter stuff and it is. It's very. It's interesting to see how incredibly sad that version of it is because. 19:01.70 Will The puaro show is often quite funny because he's a ridiculous character. There's like lots of like just like little joke writing and stuff that happens in it because they're playing with like these like you know, silly British Isms I. 19:16.97 Will So it was interesting to see this this older version of this character that susha has now been playing for multiple decades who is just kind of broken in that. 19:27.86 Jala Yeah, and from what I've read when I was doing research about just the show in general because there's no way I can watch all of it. Um, the arc of the show kind of trends more towards being very religious towards the later parts and stuff so this is season 12 and I think. 19:45.39 Jala Stuff I read said like starting around season 9 or 10 is when they really start leaning into religion because his his rosary might as well in that movie be its own character and have a name because it needs a credit in the movie because you see his rosary so much in this movie because he's talking about you know, but he's praying. 20:05.40 Jala During a lot of parts and there's the one point when Paro finally decides to let all of the murderers on the train go is only after debonim comes up to him with some tea and talks to him about Jebis and after he talks you know after they have this talk about Jebis and she cries then he's like. Maybe I'll let them go but before that in it's very opposite the book. Ah, he did not want to let them go like the character Paro lets criminals go pretty often as long as they're you know, generally decent people who you know just turned to crime for 1 reason or another and can clean up afterwards or what I'm not. But yeah, he was like super against it and just like yelling at everybody in the train and like no, you must do? What's it's right? and it's like ok, that's that's you know, but but that. 20:57.15 Will That was a good parro that was a good para. 21:03.97 Jala Especially since you're saying like oh yeah, he ends up becoming this kind of broken figure over the course of that series then that tracks because for the development of poro the way that they are showing Poro that would be like an appropriate place for him to be at. 21:19.75 Will Yeah I had I had not seen a version of the character that went so in depth on the the catholicism angle and it was it was interesting to see because to my mind partly what they were doing was reconciling you know Orient Express is ah is a weird book. In terms of Christie's novels because of how it ends essentially ah like let's let's let's say everyone on the train is guilty of the murder. They all ah murdered the victim ah Christie deliberately sets up a situation where. 21:44.55 Jala Um. 21:56.60 Will It is the most virtuous murder you could possibly construct. Ah and then puarro chooses to ah, not reveal them to ah the authorities and let them go and I I I do think that at least some of like the sadness in the moroseness of this version which like it opens with puirro. 22:15.82 Will Inducing a man to kill himself ah like he he's doing it starts with Paulro doing one of his big Parlor scenes and the guys like you got me shoots himself in the head and then has this whole other scene where ah that they. 22:31.13 Will Added where he sees a woman being stoned to death for infidelity in buddapest and he's like well what you gonna do I and I think it is. It's really trying to lay the emotional track for a puaro letting them go at the end which I think. 22:46.20 Will For all that he does sometimes like if some young heiress accidentally shot a guy in self-defense or something. He's like yeah, whatever. Ah I do think for the most part he hates being lied to and he doesn't really like letting murderers go very much ah, especially like cold blooded premeditated murders which this is. 23:05.77 Will Ah, so I think that they are really I think they sat down like we have this version of this character that we have built over 30 years. How do we get him into a position where he would let 12 people who stabbed a man like poisoned a man to death with a paralytic drug and then stabbed him while he was conscious. 23:24.11 Will So he could feel the pain. How do we get him to let those people go and I think Suchet sells it for the most part I think he seems genuinely tortured. 23:37.60 Will Ah, you know the last the last shot of the entire thing is him just like almost in tears as he's chosen to not to prosecute these people. Ah. 23:45.60 Jala And all of them being completely like surprised in everything about it and you know you kind of get this really bittersweet wistful kind of feeling as you know you know that he's never going to see them again. But he's going to be thinking about that. You know. 24:01.76 Will And it's it's interesting in terms of I really want to now go back and watch because they did adapt as the very last story they adapted curtain which was the famously the book that christie wrote in the 40 s as the final poro novel and then put in a bank vault to be. 24:21.27 Will Released when she was either dead or dying which is what they did they released it in I think 1968 like two weeks before she died ah and ah have you have you read curtain. 24:31.57 Jala I might have in that gigantic thing I'm not sure I don't care. It's fine. 24:37.43 Will Sure Do you do you care if I tell you the the reveal of green ah curtain ends with Paulro confronted with a murderer. He cannot prove is committing murders. So Poarro kills him and then kills himself and I I would love to see what what the version of this this team that the. 24:48.20 Jala Oh wow. 24:56.82 Will Made this soja souchha version of Oren Express does with that because that's also like you know it's literally he can't live with himself after doing it so he like basically tosses his heart medicine across the room and just waits to die. 25:09.27 Jala Well and of the versions that I did see or see clips of the David Susha is the one that has the most actual worked up pathos where you actually feel stuff and rather than just feeling very othered and just. Observing what's going on from like a detached view like you start feeling for the characters more in the David susha than the other versions. 25:33.22 Will Oh absolutely do we do We want to like? do we want to get into those characters. Do we want to talk through them I. 25:37.90 Jala Yes, we can We have time to do any such things you would like to do. 25:46.28 Will Yay! Ah, well, it's also interesting for a christie story in that most of the time you can kind of be like oh I probably don't need to keep track of this particular fop this particular like Bertie Wooster style idiot but you do have to kind of know who. 26:02.18 Will Because of the way the the so the solution is structured. You do have to kind of keep track of everybody. 26:07.83 Jala Yeah, yeah, and there's the number of characters because um, the way that they set it up is such that they wanted to kill this guy um with 12 people because there are 12 people in a jury and they wanted to have just. Justice because the legal system failed them and so there's actually 13 characters. Ah the count. There's a countant a countess andreny and the countess um was not part of the stabbing and and all of that because her husband who is very protective of her took her place. 26:44.56 Jala But all the other characters did have a hand in doing everything so and she's still an accomplish accomplice. So even. 26:49.80 Will Yeah, yeah, and different versions. Ah mess with this a little bit some of the characters get moved around. Um the doctor. For instance, there's a doctor on the train who in the original book is there to be the Watson type. Ah. 27:05.52 Will And actually in the souchhet version. It's very humorously like he's he's still tries to take that role but he's in on it and Puirau knows he's in on it from about minute to and is just increasingly annoyed by this man be like oh perhaps the murderer went out the window and he's like and and and. 27:24.90 Will And takes a special moment to like go give him a go fuck yourself during the big Parlor reveal at the end. 27:30.40 Jala Yeah, absolutely because in that version. Ah, he's you know the Obstetrician or whatever. So um, you know he's also in on it. But but yeah, there's. 27:43.56 Jala Her kill Puirro. Do we want to talk about him in particular or wait till later to talk in depth about his characterization. Okay. 27:49.91 Will I mean I can talk poro now I think he's yeah hercua poro ah belgian ah usually portrayed as ah as a world war 1 veteran in different versions of the story and the greatest detective all top of all time. 28:03.18 Jala Yes, absolutely. The funny thing is is that if you start typing hercue parro on Google it the first question that pops up the most asked question is was there a real her kill for all. So. 28:05.14 Will Both in his estimation and mine. 28:16.50 Will Oh no. 28:19.47 Jala I mean it's so convincing that literally the second the second most asked question is how old was Hercules Puaro when he died which is hilarious for various reasons. But so yeah, well I mean to be fair, he is named after Hercules. But. 28:24.85 Will Good old her good old Hercules Paro 28:38.60 Jala You know at the same time. That's not his name. So yeah in the original form he is belgian and that is because Agatha Christie was inspired by belgian refugees that were living near her. So. That's why that happens sometimes he's portrayed as being french I don't know what other versions they have made other than belgian and french. 28:55.54 Will I think he's only ever french in versions where they are feeling too lazy to explain that he's belgian why is this guy got a french accent if he ain't from if he ain't from France. Well it's it's right next to we can. We can talk about the the Austrian Netherlands all we want. But. 29:14.74 Will Ah, no, he's he he is. He's from a very small country near France. 29:19.30 Jala Yeah, yeah, but and then 2 what was interesting for me was when I was looking up information about him I so found out that first off his name is pulled from detectives from 2 other authors detectives like main detective people and then. 29:37.71 Jala Um, there's even a character a jules poirre from a Frank Howell Evans and this character poirre was described as small and rather heavy set hardly more than five feet but moved with his head held high the most remarkable features of his head were his stiff. Military mustache his apparent. His apparel was neat to perfection and a little quaint and frankly dandified and this is just poor old like she just lifted bits of other characters and made her own character as a mishmash of other people's characters. So. 30:12.85 Will Absolutely absolutely. He's ah, definitely definitely stolen, but don't all the great artists steal like. 30:17.93 Jala And you know like when we were talking about what house on that episode about jeeves it was the same thing when we're like well Jeeves was stolen from these other things you know inspired by this and this and this so you know that's just how it goes I mean nothing. Nothing is really original in the first place. But also it's kind of fun when you can kind of track back and see what inspired these characters in the first place the whole point though is that nobody knows who those characters are but they know Faro you know? so. 30:50.20 Will Ah see he's this little fussy man who cares very much about his suits ah is a's such a collection of ridiculous affectations. He's got his little waxed mustache. Ah his yes egg shaped head. Ah, he is extremely vain and extremely arrogant. Ah, and oh he talks in third person half the time he often refer you know you try to deceive Quadro. It's like ah all right. Buddy. 31:11.62 Jala Yes. Yeah, let it let leave it to papa puaro and things like that. He's also very punctual. He carries around a pocket watch that he is always looking at so and of course. His most famous thing that he says is that he prefers to use his little gray cells and that's because he likes to look at the psychology of the crime over piddling around with physical clues. So like there are at least there's at least 1 or two stories where he's literally an armchair and I think inspector Jap is like. There's no way or maybe it was hastings somebody said hey there's no way you can solve this crime without actually going anywhere and doing anything and he says watch me do the thing and so he sits in his armchair and has told the things and does not leave his armchair and solves the crime without ever going because he's looking at psychology rather than physical evidence. 32:09.84 Will Yeah, ah, Christy liked that as a trope. Ah, there's a whole book called the mysterious Mr. Quinn which is one of her non puarro or marble books. Ah, that is literally. It's basically a series of short stories where. This man named I think Mr Sattherwaite keeps running into situations where he hears about murders that happened like ten years ago and then he thinks about them and he goes oh this is what probably happened and that's that's the whole book is that just happening over and over again and it's fun because you know you're hearing I mean. 32:43.81 Will Like to hear about murders but ah it is definitely something that she liked was this idea of just thinking about a crime and not having to like I don't think I don't know the puirro cares about fingerprints about more than maybe 4 times throughout all the books. It's not what he does. 32:56.12 Jala Well and then too he'll be like well the evidence is going to probably be here because of the psychology. So and he'll he might retrieve the evidence but only as a matter of confirming that he knows what he's doing more or less. 33:11.91 Will Yeah, Oren Express is interesting in that context because puaro does not solve this crime by gathering more than maybe like 3 clues what he the way he solves. It is by figuring out that all of these characters who ostensibly do not know each other are connected and thus. There is almost no way that they did not do this murder together since they are all lying. 33:35.63 Jala And there's like this whole red herring throughout a large portion of the book which he will even allow the Monie book and whoever else like Dr Constantine he allows them to just think about it in this way of there. Oh there must have been 2 2 people that committed this murder a man and a woman and then they must have left and when we got hit into a snowdrift or whatever and so he just lets them entertain this notion and he just kind of like is over in the corner laughing every time that they're like oh yeah, you know. 34:09.95 Jala You want that italian guy to be the one who did it because you think he's in the mafia or whatever like um, it's this whole thing and he's just you know as he does with hastings and most of the stories where hastings shows up. He just kind of lets Hastings think whatever he's thinking and you know that's kind of like. 34:26.87 Jala A way for the reader to know that that's absolutely not what happened you know because if it were then Faro would be you know wrapping this up not continuing the story. 34:35.33 Will Yeah I it's It's not fun to be Porro Sidekick I'll say it's a lot of like oh my dear hastingings with your tiny little brain you news never enough Puerro knows what's right? It's like all all right. 34:39.50 Jala We know. 34:49.41 Jala Well and the funny thing is is that hastings does it right back and he's kind of condescending towards Paro because he just is like oh you funny little man, you're just like a funny little guy. You must be losing your touch blah blah Blah you know every single time every time It's like you might. 35:07.54 Jala You might think after you a bet on the losing horse 700 times in her own hastings that maybe you don't know what's up. 35:15.80 Will Yeah, and if we're not describing Captain Hastings who appears in what half the books something like that she writes him off after a while we're not describing him very much in terms of character because he doesn't really have one. Ah he is less characterized than Watson certainly he is just kind of this former military officer. 35:33.89 Will Who is there for pro puaro to talk to and occasionally do a physical thing. 35:37.80 Jala Yeah, and also too for puarro to make fun of him because he always likes the auburn haired ladies and he does not make an appearance in the murder on the orient express. But if you have seen anything with Paro in it. You probably have seen a hastings at some point. So. 35:55.54 Jala So yeah, but um, so for the characters for orient express though so we have puirro we have monsurbuk who is the director of the Koagni Waon Lee which is the train company that they are on the train for there's Dr Constantine which is just. 36:14.40 Jala A Greek Doctor at least in the original version. Um, then again that gets played with variously. There's Mary Devenim who is a Schoolmistre and you know like in the 70 s version devenham is like the very first thing you see. She's all in red and everything else is just like these gray scales stuff you know and so she stands out right at the front and they automatically code her with that red because there's this whole thing about a red kimono and so they're automatically trying to set it up to. 36:46.31 Jala Make you think that? Oh she's definitely got to be the 1 36:49.90 Will Yeah, she gets more prominence a lot of times I think in adaptations because ah, she's the part like Taylor written for like if I mean you know the Daisy Ridley type like the the young actress on the rise kind of thing and then pardon me. 37:07.17 Will You know it's it's Jessica Chastain in the ah in the souchhe version even though I think she was already big by then to be doing like you know, functionally a Tv movie but ah that it's a character who gets a lot of the the more humanizing moments. It's she's the one in the Soushe version who talks him into letting them go. 37:25.72 Jala So there's also her love interest colonel arbuthnot so or arbuth no depending upon how you what version? you're looking at. Yeah. 37:26.98 Will Basically. 37:37.74 Will I say arbuth Yes sorry sorry I got to not do that's that's like a guppy joke I got. Ah yeah I'm keeping it in check. 37:44.95 Jala It's it's not right, you can guppy it up I'm sure there's gonna be somebody who's going to listen to this who's listen to Guppy so all good. So there is also the Mrs Hubbard character and I think that she gets. 37:48.78 Will Why isn't he saying stupid things about his body fluids. 38:00.70 Jala Changed around a lot too. 38:03.12 Will The the basic idea of the character is always about the same. This is a this is the one where you get a a veteran actress tends to to take to take this role because it is spoilers a dual role. Ah this is a. This is actually Linda Arden a famous stage actress who is pretending to be this kind of obnoxious american woman to throw puarro off of the case. Ah so that's you know it's Michelle Pfeiffer in the in the twenty seventeen version it's I Vanessa Redgrave 38:37.21 Will Ah, in the in the Albert Finney Warren becall Al Vanessa Rodgra is I think demonno right? Ah sorry I'm going off I have a bad memory sometimes yeah so it's it's it's prestigious. It's it's a prestigious part to because you get to do this thing where you're like I'm I'm this. 38:40.26 Jala It's Lauren Bacall. 38:57.11 Will That there was a man in my room and then like actually Mr Paul Ro this is what really happened you get to do the little the flip. 39:04.80 Jala And that's really, um, a fun role. Ah the one that kind of has the hardest pivot of any of the characters when it comes to the big reveal. So There's princess Draggle Miro who is a Russian princess And. Um, the way that she is described in the book is just very funny because they talk about just how ugly she is just constantly. It's like ok I don't know what where we're going with this and it's just no, she just ugly ok, ok, all right. 39:38.52 Jala Um, there's Hector Mcqueen who is a ratchet's secretary and a mentee of the great actress character at least in um, one of the versions. 39:51.29 Will Ah, yeah, Mcqueen gets. He's the one who gets his character ah shuffled the most. Ah, he's usually in a lot of the versions. He's somehow connected to the. 40:01.34 Will Legal case that is the motive for all of this in the souchhet version. His dad was the prosecutor who was disgraced for not ah, pulling off the slam dunk of the century of convicting ah the worst criminal in the world. Basically the. 40:17.15 Jala Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's Mr. Ratchet who is the evil criminal So his real name is Casti and he murdered a little girl he was ransoming the little girl murdered her anyway. 40:20.25 Will 1 of the most evil crimes you will ever hear described. Yeah. 40:37.60 Jala Yeah, and got the rent some money and still didn't get put away somehow and you know. 40:41.74 Will Yeah, kid so it's based it's it's straight ripped from the headlines with Lindbergh Kidnapping right ah so it's he kidnaps her kills her and then gets the fight. The the. 40:54.94 Will $200000 or whatever ransom like it's just it's ridiculously mustache to twirlingly evil. 40:59.97 Jala And well she has to do that in order to like Justify puarrow letting all the characters go because you know like the the book and some of the video Adaptations. Do. Like bend over backwards to say Well these are good people generally Speaking. It's just that This was an evil deed and they're just trying to get justice and that's what's right? and so on and so Forth. So. 41:23.67 Will It is. It's a very constructed book in many ways. It's a very like start with this solution. How do I make it? How do I justify this like with a pretty like you know the coincidence of like. 41:41.90 Will Oh this one little girl was connected to a Russian princess and like all these disparate characters. She wants to use. Ah, but yeah, ah, his real name is cassetti because he's a mafia type guy and that's how he got off for the the the child murder that he did. 41:57.16 Jala Well yeah, and another reason why he got off with it and also the reason why all of these disparate characters can be drawn together is because only in America. 41:59.37 Will And that everyone knows he did. 42:11.23 Jala Like that's bandied about quite a bit as well like only in America can you find these many different random people in the same household and only in America would this kind of a situation occur. So. 42:21.00 Will And again like I I make fun of it. But it's like you know a child was kidnapped and did disappear and you know Lindbergh Baby's real. 42:32.17 Jala Yep yep, so continuing on with the characters. You've got countess and count and dreny and we've already kind of talked about that. Um, so countess andreny her link to it like her role her her fake guys is she's a countess I'm she's just. You know, ah aristocracy wandering around that's her justification for being there. She is the sister of the sister of the mom. So like the aunt of the little girl who was killed and count andreni basically took the place of her in the murder to protect her because she if. 43:08.94 Jala Her identity was figured out she would be the 1 directly implicated in the murder so he was trying to deflect that so that ah. 43:17.59 Will And then we have we have ah Cyrus Hardman who's not in the souchhet version. He's the one that gets cut the easiest because his connection he doesn't really do any particularly good He's not very vital to the mystery and he's not he doesn't have the strongest motive so he tends to get kind of popped off pretty easily. 43:36.20 Jala Yeah, because he's he says that he is a detective for pinkertons but he was also in love with Daisy's french nurse who committed suicide after Daisy was killed because she seemed to have. Like you know she was being investigated for having some kind of part as an accomplice. So. 43:58.34 Will Yeah, that's another thing about this mystery is that the body count on the initial crime is crazy high. Mm. 44:03.41 Jala Well, it's because you got the little girl who died and then the mom was pregnant with another child and miscarried and died and then didn't the father commit suicide after that the maid kills herself. 44:14.28 Will Father kills father kills himself and then the the it's again, it's literally like Dame Agatha sitting there like how do I make this the worst thing a person has ever done. So it's okay to kill them. 44:33.22 Jala Yeah, yeah, and so you know like they they have to keep on talking about all the blood on his hands and and all this that and the other so there is characters wise. There's also Antonio Foscanelli who is the big italian guy who is the one that um. 44:49.35 Jala You know I think it was ah Mr. Book kept on saying Oh yeah, it's got to be him because mafia you know So there's gretta olsen which is like she's she puts herself out there as isn't that the one who's the missionary in a lot of the versions. Okay, that's the missionary. 45:03.76 Will That is the missionary. Yeah. 45:07.99 Jala And she was Daisy Armstrong's nurse then you've got Hildegard Schmidt who is ah princess dragum drag o miros maid and also happened to be the Armstrong family cook which that's like this thing it keeps. Ah. And stretching like how how can we relate all of these characters. 45:26.45 Will It's it's very. It's very silly like it's like I got to get 12 in here somehow because of my whole jury thing I'm doing a jury everybody. 45:36.72 Will This is me Dame Agatha I'm doing a jury thing give me what's all the ways you could know a little girl what if you were her cook. 45:42.84 Jala Yeah I don't even know what Edward Mastermin's role is like I know he plays ratchet's valet but how is he related to anybody in their armstrong household was he just like was ah a friend of the guy like the the father. 46:00.10 Will Oh in the soushe version he was ah, Armstrong's Batman in the war in the war I and was so committed to this plan that he went to go be. 46:11.63 Will Ah, the butler of the worst man in the world for ah, an extended period of time so that he could get him I guess. 46:18.96 Jala To take him down for his buddy I don't know like it's just it's some some real nonsense in real stretches and that's part of why? Um, although this is a very well known book and you know has been adapted a lot.. It's not the. Best of her Works. So. 46:34.17 Will I I Love my friends I don't think I would even I don't know that I would necessarily even be bothered to buy a train ticket that seems like too much work. 46:43.31 Jala Well I mean like this is Dutch is buying a plane or a train ticket. This is also devoting years of your life to like going undercover and all kinds of stuff and it's just wow. Ok. 46:49.57 Will Oh yeah I I'm yeah I I'm saying just the train ticket seems like a lot I don't think that was a cheap ticket. 47:02.25 Jala No, and no, it would not be that's why everybody on there is like aristocracy or servants of aristocracy so indeed for no particular reason. But um, you know maybe Christie was trying to make a jab at you know. 47:07.74 Will Or car salesman. 47:18.13 Jala American salespeople I don't know anyway. Ah the last character of importance is Pierre Michelle who is the wagon lee ah boggan lee conductor and the father of the suicidal nursemaid of Daisy Armstrong who you know. 47:29.42 Will They spent so long setting up this plan like all right I'm gonna go I'm gonna go be a conductor on the train line for like 10 years 47:35.77 Jala I They did he? Ah and I don't know maybe.. That's maybe his in with the train is how it all came about where they're like okay well he's been working on this train for a while. How about we set it up on the train. Yeah I don't know. 47:52.85 Will See I think they were all just like really big fans of Jordan Mechner's the last express. 47:57.83 Jala Well Agatha Christie herself was a very big fan of trains and that's why she has trains in here and then you know in the abc herders. There's like a train schedule. That's a big thing in there because she likes trains so that she. 48:12.12 Will Well, it's a it's a great locked room setting for a mystery like it's claustrophobic. There's all these little nooks and crannies to poke into. Ah you know she it's I will say as a locked room mystery setup. It's a good one. 48:27.72 Will You know train trapped in a snowdrift because that's what happens on the night of the murder is that the train gets stopped by a snowdrift which screws up. Everybody's plans but and yet but go ahead. Oh I say and I well I've lost my thought so the thought is gone. 48:35.12 Jala Yeah, and go ahead finish. It be a thought. 48:44.76 Jala Ah, broken they broke. Okay, okay, well so you were talking about lock room. Mystery train is good setting snow drift happened on the night of the murder. 48:45.87 Will My little my little gray cells are like I have 2 left and they're like oh no man. 48:57.19 Will Yeah, ah, but for the life of me I can't I don't know what else. So the little gray cells they're in Revolt against each other. They're like strangling each other. 49:06.51 Jala But yeah, but like okay so the thing about the entire setup too is that the first thing that goes wrong is that poro gets on the train at all because they have booked an extra spot for a fake person who doesn't show up and they were going to just. Have that spot be empty. So that nobody is on that car except for the people who committed the murder and the dead guy you know so puarro happens to know the guy who runs the joint and happens to get ah birth because of that. 49:38.17 Jala And that is the reason why he is there at all so that was the first thing that went wrong. The second thing is that they got stuck in a snowdrift which allowed time for this whole investigation because if it wasn't for the snowdrift poarro wouldn't have had the time to do all the investigation they would have just swung in the cops. You know would have come in from the next place abroad and then. You know, put a cursory examination said yeah it must have been somebody who jumped off the train or whatever and left it alone. So. 50:04.98 Will I I I love in the souchhet version. How little puarro wants to be on the train. Ah. 50:08.99 Jala He doesn't want to be on the train. He doesn't want to do anything with the murder either. He doesn't want to do anything at all. He's just like leave me alone. Please. 50:17.46 Will I mean he's he's trying to get from 1 case that he kind of botched given that the guy killed himself to another murder while he just wants to be on vacation. Ah, and also he doesn't really know book in this version book just recognizes him as the world famous detective. 50:33.27 Will And is extremely annoying about it and parta was like well it's a free train ride I guess. 50:38.30 Jala Yeah, so so yeah, but um, in either case, what's interesting to me too about the David Sushet version is the fact that ratchet looks especially like he looks like a goblin looks like a straight up like a goblin. 50:53.72 Will That's it. This is a very mean way to describe veteran character actor Toby Jones 50:56.18 Jala And I'm just like. 51:00.77 Jala Well and in this movie he comes across with the way he's moving his body in the way that he's just like you know his his behavior his his whole you know of course his demeanor is going to be like that because he's playing a ah villain character that. You know you don't know he's a villain but you have to have a reason to dislike him when you see him because yeah, yeah, so. 51:21.90 Will I mean be fair, you don't cast Toby Jones as a nice person usually although he's he's not doing a very good english american accent in ah in that I would say but. 51:30.18 Jala Well accents and these that adaptations just kind of go out the window anyway, I mean they all they're kind of all over the place depending upon what version you're looking at so it's kind of like it I just kind of shrug and's like I mean Sean Connery he's supposed to be english you know? Ok. So. 51:48.83 Will Ah, one of the reasons I do kind of want to see the 2017 version is that ah the hardman character is Willem Defoe except he's pretending to be a german professor for half of it and I just kind of want to hear defoe screw around with that. 51:58.92 Jala Ah, yeah, yeah, and that's part of the reason why I wanted to watch that one as well I did not have time to do that. But also the trailers sent me and I didn't have enough time to like recover from watching the trailer. 52:12.65 Jala To get to the actual movie I do want to eventually watch it though. Um, just even just for the funzies because there's just so many top tier high high build actors on that film that is just it would be worth it just to see the interactions even if they are very brief. 52:28.93 Will Josh Gad the snowman himself 52:37.80 Will Um, there's that side for the people have when they talk to me there. It is. 52:43.65 Jala Ah, there was a 2015 tv twopart miniseries in Japan and that one was called orient cuoku Sats Gene Jien and that one was basically the first part of it was an adaptation of the original orient express. Story and then the second part on the second was an original story and differences. Of course this is set in Japan. So it's like a 1933 shin kasen from um, a shimonosekki to Tokyo and the guy who is Paro is called. 53:19.96 Jala Ah, Suguro Takeru and he is a japanese detective who you know is is basically playing the character I don't know anything more about it because it's very hard to find information about that. Um, so but it is available to buy. But I'm not spending all that money to. Watch it and then pick up only just whatever my Rusty Japanese can remember so. 53:43.34 Will Yeah I wish I had like my major exposure like you know I love ah like Japanese Mystery visual novels like we have a shared love for the Phoenix right games. Ah, and it's always because you know there's there are a lot of different like animes and stuff that add to adapt things like you know. 54:01.70 Will Or at least play with things like Holmes and things you know there's great detective conan right stuff like that I would be very interested to see what that that version of I know this isn't I I kind of jump to like anime and games because I'm a big nerd. Ah, but ah, we're all nerds here. 54:17.78 Jala We're all nerds here. 54:20.72 Will It would be I'd be anersed to see what that what that looks like that's it sounds fascinating. 54:27.50 Jala Yeah I I would be interesting interested to see it because um I don't I'm not familiar with the director or anything so like I I want to see what that style is like because there are a number of japanese directors that have like very distinct styles that um. You know may may do interesting things and go down interesting roads with the material you know and I also want to know what the second story is like how do you follow up with the the murder on the orient express like what's that second story you know someone. 54:56.78 Will Bigger train 2 murders. 55:02.63 Jala Simultaneously anyway. so but yeah so I don't know um when it comes to puaro. Overall we already kind of touched on it. But like you prefer. Poiro to holmes. 55:21.95 Will I do so first of all I just I'll say I do not much like Sherlock Holmes as a character in the first place. Ah and it it touches on something you were talking about before which is a home story is basically a very. They're often a quite dry description of a situation and then at the end holmes just kind of spials out all these little things that he noticed that allowed him to solve the case in 4 seconds like it's kind of funny like there's the the next generation the star trek next generation episode where data. Is trying to be homes and just solves the crime immediately. Ah, it's not that different from an actual home story. It's the thing. 56:02.85 Jala Um, no, no that they they have a lot of um, you know, drawing out the story and everything like that. But it's definitely a thing and then two another another thing to note is that um. Holmes was something that was serialized in the strand so like it has a certain recipe that is hit upon on each installment that you get whereas Christie's stuff yes there were short stories but usually if I'm not mistaken. She had those short stories. 56:34.39 Jala Serialized but like she also wrote full-length books regularly and there's not like a ton of of holmes books I think there's just like the hound of the baskervilles is the only one I believe I don't remember ah but I think it was published as a novel though instead of being serialized. 56:40.98 Will I Think Basketballsker Bills is a story isn't it. It's not super I don't think it's a full length book. But okay, fair enough. 56:54.19 Jala So either way, the whole point is like Christie is used to having this longer format and doing something that's not necessarily formulaic now there are definitely formulas that she uses for all of her serialized pieces and that's just part and parcel of the way that it was published. So um. You know that is something to consider for me I enjoy Sherlock Holmes I also enjoy puarro they are in some ways very similar because they're both full of themselves. They're both super intelligent. They are like the the last gasp of the police like coming to them and saying please help us figure out what's going on. We don't know. Ah there's always the inspector person. You know there is the doffy side kick who doesn't know anything but at least Watson gets sometimes some agency you know like yeah poor hastings doesn't get anything. He's. 57:41.44 Will Sure, totally not not not 1 lick. He's literally england's dumbest man. Ah so. 57:50.52 Jala But holmes himself is not an endearing character. You know he's He's a curiosity. He's not endearing but with poro possibly because he is this funny little man as he's usually described as and you know he's full of himself but he's also very content to sit with his chocolate. 58:09.90 Jala And just sit in his armchair and and read the paper or whatever like you know he's kind of got like this this different kind of air where he's just like I don't know not not like somebody's grandpa necessarily but you know he is really papa puaro like he he makes himself up to be that way and so he's more. Endurring and he's more likable in a lot of ways. But also the way that he says stuff like the way that Sherlock Holmes talks to other characters. He is condescending to them constantly and it's not that Paro isn't condescending but he often does it with this kind of like gentleness to it that. 58:43.77 Will What a big part of it for me is that holmes is almost almost always presented with his dignity completely intact. He is always presented as this like dignified master of the universe. 58:46.67 Jala Holmes lacks. 59:03.16 Will Kind of character and obviously there's it's it's hard to talk about homes in generalities because he's been adapted every which way poirro. There is a ridiculousness to poirro Puirro you are meant to laugh at puarro at times because he is in many ways, a silly little man. 59:21.92 Will I went back and actually I watched the very first episode of the the Agatha Christie's Paro show and poarro is presented as as it as very funny in certain points like he gets he does this woman this huge favor. It's the adventure of the clap and clapum cook and he does this. Obnoxious woman this huge favor by agreeing to like as a lark investigate her missing cook. Ah when he is and then she fires him after a day because her husband's like we don't need a detective for this Ah. 59:53.20 Will And the rage he flies into is one of the funniest things I have watched in a minute just like deep apoplexy that they would have the gall to hire Hercule parro and then pay him one guinea to relieve him of his services. 01:00:04.67 Jala Yeah, and that that was based on 1 of the short stories and that was a very you know memorable short story because he is he solves the the whole thing out of spite because he's mad that they let him go and he's like I can't believe this. 01:00:16.99 Will Yes. 01:00:24.44 Jala You know there's no way I'm going to I'm not going to use this guinea I'm not going to whatever and he would just was so upset. 01:00:28.52 Will Yeah, he puts it up on his he puts it up on his wall in the in the Tv episode. It's like that's the end of the episode as he takes the check for 1 guinea and puts it on his wall just out of like spite. Basically that's the and that's the thing like I like a character who's got some spite in him. 01:00:46.61 Jala Well, it's great because he can be petty. He can be petty and he can be like you know this petty little guy. Um whereas you know Holmes doesn't ever come across like that and you know what. 01:00:58.84 Jala Would happen if somebody tried to do that to holmes is he would give them a withering stare and then he would dress them down and then they would shut up and and that would be it like there would if they even dared at all you know? Yeah well in. 01:01:07.13 Will Right in the universe of a home story. It would never happen Holmes could never be disrespected like that. 01:01:17.31 Jala That's is's part of even making the reader think you know like ah, underestimate poirot as a character. Yeah. 01:01:26.10 Will It yeah, it's it's it's the colombo turn right? It's not as extreme as the colombo turn where you know, ah, this character is presented as the schlubiist like loser that a detective could ever be and then you have you know it's that perfect moment where. You know the the 1 more thing he turns around and you see the light in the eyes. that's that's I like again I was watching glass onion recently and Ben Wais blanc spends some of that playing very dumb which he does' in the first moot in the first knives out as well and then that moment where you see the character. Oh right? This is the smartest man in the room by an order of magnitude and he's about to demonstrate it is. It's such a satisfying turn every single time. 01:02:10.00 Jala And there's also the fact that Poirot being an immigrant and being this little man that nobody takes seriously um, it also puts him in a kind of underdog role even though he actually has the upper hand but people don't know it. 01:02:27.27 Jala And so it it kind of makes him a little bit more endearing too because you know he's not like Holmes who happens to just be a master of you know, pugilism and this that and everything else you know and is also mostly high as hell like. 01:02:46.13 Jala It's not quite that kind of a situation and um, you know it's It's nice to see like this underestimated character. Um, you know, get the upper hand satisfactorily even if he is ridiculed in the process even by people who are reading it kind of still might be giggling. You know because of his Mannerisms. So. 01:03:04.66 Will Yeah, and and if you like that. There's also always of course Miss Marple which is Christie's other major detective who is even more underestimated because she's a little old lady who just you know solves every murder that. 01:03:19.90 Will Comes to her like a freaking lawnmower. She's just like no no, that's what happened That's what happened That's what happened I I did I said I as though I had another thought no more no more thought no more thoughts were forthcoming thoughts thoughts had departed. 01:03:32.11 Jala Ah, that's okay, well Christie herself too. Um, she hated the fact that she was like a slave of of the wage worker or something like that she did not like like she set up everything into her her Agatha trip. Krisy trust specifically for like tax purposes because she hated taxes and you know for other other reasons and um, that's a common thing for a lot of the authors of this time because that was also woodhouse he hated taxes and you know was having trouble with taxes on both sides of the ocean so you know, um. 01:04:08.10 Jala So so it goes ah but she definitely was somebody who people would underestimate or poke into her business like there was a point where she had divorced her husband she and her husband had divorced and she disappeared for like I don't know what it was like two weeks or something like that. 01:04:25.23 Will Ah, it's ten days something like it's a it's a tremendously famous incident because people made a huge deal out of it someone like literally I was just I write news stories at work and someone right now is adapting. 01:04:37.49 Will A fiction book that someone wrote about this period from the perspective of the husband's other woman. It's called the Christie affair. It was a bestseller a couple years back? um actually Daisy Ridley is going to star in it as the other woman but but yeah christie's. 01:04:55.30 Will Husband told her he was cheating on her. They got divorced and then she disappeared for ten days and it became a national scandal a national incident when really she just went off to a like ah a spa to like get away from it all for ten days and not be bothered like i. 01:05:07.10 Jala Yeah, and you know like maybe get her shit together because full stuff and just got dropped on her like yeah I I. 01:05:13.54 Will But there's so much like I was poking around in the getty images archives for that story. They literally ran a photo that was like how might Agatha Christie have disguised herself so it's it's literally a picture of her and then on either side they have doctored photos to be like. 01:05:31.36 Will What if she was wearing a wig and sunglasses. 01:05:32.71 Jala You like like I I think it's because she was a murder mystery writer that they just had to delve into this mystery of where did she go? What is she doing you know and it just it made it really rough. You know, really terrible I mean as it does for anybody? Yeah yeah. 01:05:47.33 Will Oh it's super gross. It's super gross. 01:05:52.31 Jala But because of that kind of a thing like Agatha Christie herself was often underestimated or put into like ah a spotlight kind of like a a homes typepe character but she wanted she wanted to be the one that was you know. Not in the spotlight she doesn't she doesn't want all the people paying attention to her. She doesn't like crowds. She doesn't like people she doesn't she can't be bothered to answer letters and stuff like she doesn't want to do any of that she doesn't want to interact with people. She wants to like go out and be by herself in nature and write her books and get her paycheck. 01:06:29.33 Will She's she was basically a very normal upper middle class English woman of her time who just happened to also be like the most one of the most successful and prolific prolific authors of all time. 01:06:39.34 Jala And just like with so many people she just could not handle that fame. She did not like that fame she could not handle that fame so you know I kind of feel like that's echoed in Puiro in Miss Marble where she just like is imagining herself in these like less. 01:06:57.96 Jala Overstated roles like yes people know who Faro is but they don't just automatically just turn and see him and then just all flock to him like the paparazzi or anything you know it's It's often like just in an interaction between them. Oh you must be. 01:07:10.70 Will I Mean they often go Oh that's that that's her cool parro The greatest detective of all time he's probably wrong now though. 01:07:15.80 Jala Yeah, every time, especially if hastings is anywhere nearby so but but yeah, so do you have any other kind of wrap up thoughts about Agatha Christie works paro 01:07:32.74 Jala Murder on the orient express I think we pretty much covered that and all the different iterations as much as we're gonna. 01:07:38.80 Will Yeah I'll say my favorite of the the the big poro novels is is ah it's probably Roger Akroyd I think the twist in that is executed very very very deftly and do do you know that that one. 01:07:50.57 Jala That one is I believe the one that critics more or less unanimously say is her best of Borrows books. So yeah. 01:08:01.57 Will It's it's a good character piece and ah what she does with it is is very clever like Abc Murders is it's a fine book I one of these days I need to sit down and watch the the malovich adaptation. Ah. 01:08:16.14 Will Because that's done by I do not remember the woman's name at the top. Um, off top my head but there is the Bbc has been doing these adaptations of Christie over the last several years they tend to roll them out at Christmas they did a version of ah or deal by innocence. Ah, and they're interesting because. 01:08:34.99 Will They kind of very deliberately skewer like you know Christie tends to be kind of a little stolid a little dry. Ah these are lurid as hell. Ah, this is the the ordeal by innocence has ah Matthew good from you know Downton Abbey and stuff playing a guy who has a. Ah, not a close to me bag. But ah, a urine bag because he's he was wounded and he was in a car accident and just to spite someone just sitting in a restaurant pisses himself just while staring dead eyes at someone I'm like oh my god. 01:09:11.39 Will Dame Agatha would be scandalized. And I believe that's the team who did the the abc murders with Malovich though. So I mean I I like those because I like a little bit of trashiness like deliberate trashiness. 01:09:26.86 Jala Yeah I played the Abc Murders game that that came out that one's actually really fun I like the way that it is set up and um, just the way that that they break it down to where ah the mechanics the core mechanics of that game. 01:09:28.83 Will Oh I have not played that. 01:09:44.53 Jala Have to do with you go around and you're examining stuff and and learning things by talking to people and then you have this little gray cells part where you have to put together the bits of information to come to the conclusion and so like it's like this whole kind of ah. Map that you have to fill out with little bit disparate bits of information. Yeah, yeah, and it's narrated and he's got like the very calm little Faro voice and it's It's really fun. It was a fun little game I definitely enjoyed it and I would recommend it to folks. It goes on sale all the time. So. 01:10:03.12 Will Oh I Love that I Love that. 01:10:21.16 Will I think I think I actually have it in my in like my playstation library I've just never played it like I'm I'm a I'm I'm a big nerd for detective games I've written ah about that a lot for work. Ah I tend to not. 01:10:27.83 Jala Backlog is a real thing. So. 01:10:37.42 Will Necessarily like the ones that are based off of established authors like the the frogwears ah Sherlock Holmes games very massively in quality. Ah the crimes and punishments is the only one I've ever actually liked so I'm always. 01:10:54.21 Will In a detective game I'm always looking for systems that replicate exactly it sounds like what you're describing that like you know the actions of a good detective are not going out and clicking every pixel to find Clues they're doing the little gray cells stuff the sitting and. 01:11:12.69 Will Making these connections and if this is true then this must be true. All of that stuff so anything that gamifies that better I am all about. 01:11:20.44 Jala It I don't remember when that game came out but it kind of reminds me in some ways of the dung un rompa trials ah in that you know it's kind of like the piecing together the little comic bits at the end of the dung un romp and trials. 01:11:34.92 Jala When you know you're trying to piece together The the total thing. Okay, this is what happened but the way that this works is ah at each individual part as you are in a certain setting. You can explore around. You can talk to people you can look at stuff some stuff doesn't have any impact on. 01:11:53.14 Will See here. 01:11:54.14 Jala Situation Some of it does and by the way it it. Also there's an achievement if you keep looking in the mirror because you adjust your mustache and stuff so it's got little fun touches like that as well. Um, so there's definitely that you know some other aspects that showed that these people paid attention to. 01:12:00.92 Will Of course like that. 01:12:11.84 Jala The character and the original source material. But um, it breaks it down to where like in each scene Poro is kind of coming up with like his takeaways from that area as he continues to go through the murder and so. It's pretty fun I really enjoyed that game. 01:12:28.43 Will Yeah I'm I'm going to have to bump it up my list because that that sounds exactly what I want from a detective game like my favorite detective game this year was case of the golden idol which is literally look at this big look at this crime scene and deduce everything that has happened here and fill it into. 01:12:47.70 Jala Yeah, well because that's that's more accurate to what you know the feeling of any kind of detective fiction. You know what? what that feeling is for somebody who's partaking of it. So. 01:12:47.72 Will Basically a big spreadsheet but that's what I want. 01:13:03.73 Jala You know instead of Click Click Click click click you know, like that's no that is that is adventure game stuff that is not detective fiction stuff. You know? So so for sure. Yeah, any any other final thoughts other than you need to go play that game. 01:13:10.38 Will So. I Yeah I. I Think that is That's my major takeaway and of course that this was a delightful Time. So I said that like an ironic asshole. But I meant it sincerely Okay, all right. 01:13:24.74 Jala Okay, well thank you I think so too. Ah, no it warmed the cockles of my heart. You're good. You're good. So I maybe it's because maybe maybe. 01:13:37.78 Will Harcockles achieved. 01:13:39.99 Jala Because I just know a lot of people who have a dry-sounding sarcastic voice I Just it's fine. So so yeah, so where in the world can people find you on the internet if you are to be found. Will. 01:13:51.83 Will Oh okay, ah so my day job is the at the av club where I cover I run our games coverage I also work the news desk four days out of the week so that's just avclub.com ah click on the things that have my name on it and read the things I said ah and then I am also the co-host ah sidekick slash stooge of the duckfeed podcast everything to guppy which is ostensibly about the video game the binding of isaac but which is. Mostly an improv comedy show about 2 people being bad at being friends with each other. 01:14:30.46 Jala That is an accurate description. So and and of course you can find me in any place that I am to be found at Jalahan in places including jalachan.place where you got this podcast. 01:14:48.83 Jala That is all for now folks! Until next time take care of yourself and remember to smile. [Show Outro] Jala Jala-chan's Place is brought to you by Fireheart Media. If you enjoyed the show, please share this and all of our episodes with friends and remember to rate and review us on your podcast platform of choice. Word of mouth is the only way we grow. If you like, you can also kick us a few bucks to help us keep the lights on at ko-fi.com/fireheartmedia. Check out our other show Monster Dear Monster: A Monster Exploration Podcast at monsterdear.monster. Music composed and produced by Jake Lionhart with additional guitars and mixed by Spencer Smith. Follow along with my adventures via jalachan.place or find me at jalachan in places on the net! [Outro Music]