[Show Intro]
Jala
Hey, thanks for coming! I'm glad you're here. Come on in! 
Everyone's out on the patio right now. Looks like a couple of people are in the garden. I can't wait to introduce you! Can I get you anything? [turned away] Hey folks, our new guest is here!

[Intro music]

Jala: Hello world and welcome to Jala-chan's Place. I'm your host Jala Prendes (she/her), and today I am joined by Rupert Booth (he/him). Hello!

Rupert Booth: Yay.

Jala: How are you today? It's interesting. Mm-hmm. Just chitchatting with you on Twitter, and then cracking a joke about rescheduling and then mm-hmm. Having you on my podcast.
Mm-hmm.

Rupert Booth: You know, you said you, I've wondered about this for years. You know, you said, without further ado, one, what is A due and two, who has ever been given an amount of A to then have further ado added on?

Jala: That is a very good question, isn't it? What is it I, well, the type of person who ask that question and then is just like, No, really, I don't even know.

Rupert Booth: I mean, I, I suppose it's kind of fuss and PVA as in much ado about nothing. But it's just kinda like ado, you know, we always, we use it in that context only, but no one ever says, oh, I've got some ado on. I can't turn up. I'm sorry, I'm gonna be late cuz there's a happening to me.

Jala: So the Webster's dictionary defines do as heightened fuss or concern, time wasting bother over trivial details.
Ah, modern life there. There you go. Yeah. Excellent.

Rupert Booth: Oh, will that me to forget more? Do we get presumably a slightly longer life? Is that a good thing? I dunno. More, more life, but more stress in that life. I dunno. Might best to just cut your losses. Yeah. Am I making any sense? I wouldn't be

Jala: surprised if I'm not.
No, you were making perfect sense, really. Oh dear.

Rupert Booth: I must try harder.

Jala: Sorry. Perfect, perfect sense. So, Yes, yes. We've gotta put some more effort in there so that way we can get the requisite amount of nonsense. So listeners may know 
Rupert Booth from his various different projects. Most notably, of course, Jens in contradiction, which is never the one thing that you get interviewed about ever.
Like

Rupert Booth: yes, it's, it's mostly about Jens. Yep. So apologies if I.

Jala: Well, we are trying to kind of cover more than just that. Mm-hmm. We wanna talk about all of it, not just the nine days you were working on that project. So,
I do pay attention and I do research. I was furiously Googling and I'm like, come on, there's gotta be more, more interviews than just contradiction. Right? Nah, not really. Well, I saw one where it was about dark side of the moon and everything, but even that just started off talking about jinks. So yeah.
Yeah. There was a book I was reading recently that said like, there are for most people, That one event in their life that is like mm-hmm. The, the event that is pivotal mm-hmm. Where there is a before and there is an after. Yes. Yes. And I don't know if it's like, I mean, at least according to the interviews and stuff that I've seen, it feels like maybe that seral was that unexpected pivotal moment for you, like in so far as getting out there on like a, a larger scale.
Yeah, I mean, it,

Rupert Booth: it, it was what I'd call my break basically, you know every artistic type has a break or doesn't have a break, and I've been very lucky to have that one that got me into games. And of course, that's where the big interest has been before Then I, I have no relationship to games at all, really.

Jala: Where you were saying that, oh, well, you know, you're not really a gamer, and then you went and you played. Of Detective I, oh, no, no, no. Dr. Decker Uhhuh, who was Dr. Decker and then and Anna Rosa,

Rupert Booth: and I didn't have a clue. Yes. I distinctly
camera prompting certain directions actually progress. Yeah. Gamer. I want my entertainment to sort of entertain me. I've, I've done my day's work. I don't wanna have to do any more work. I wanna just be told a story. It's their job.

Jala: Yeah, well, at the very least, FM V adventure game type stuff aren't really like taxing, like twitch based movements or anything like that where you have to like do complicated inputs or anything.
So

Rupert Booth: based.

Jala: We will cover more about that and, but Sure. At the same time, I do wanna actually ask you questions about like, how did you start out doing everything that you wanted to do? Like what was your dream job when you were little? I'm pretty sure this is not gonna be what you actually do now. No, it absolutely

Rupert Booth: isn't what I do now.
I think, I think, well, because I was born in the early seventies, space was still a really big thing. So I think thinking back to. What feels like the early cta it was being astronaut. Cause every little boy around the early seventies, I think wanted to be an astronaut secretly. Which the moon landings had just actually, there was still going on in my lifetime, in about two months into my lifetime was the last moon landing so far.
And then there was Skylab and Voyager and all those sort of things. And it was just, it was just hugely exciting. I was fascinated by space.

Jala: Yeah, and I think that's kinda a common thing. I Absolut absolutely. Okay. I live in Houston, so Oh, right, right. I grew up going to nasa. Oh. So yeah, I can visit

Rupert Booth: and go to

Jala: nasa.
Yeah, I, I will have to show you some photos of like the Saturn five rocket and stuff, because we absolutely Oh yes. Yeah. Well, you absolutely did tours all the time. But because of that I was like, space, you know, and I wanted to be an astronaut for a little while, but then I was like, no, I wanna be a nurse so I can, and a nurse rather than a doctor, because I wanted to take care of people.
Oh, so. Right. Yeah. So that was me, and that's absolutely not what I do, so, yep.

Rupert Booth: Did you give up on taking care of people then? People aren't worth it

Jala: on the whole, no, no. I take care of both of my elderly, disabled parents, so I That's fine.

Rupert Booth: I'm just, I'm, I don't think that good.

Jala: Right, right. Well, I think that a lot of issues that people find these days is that like seeing people on social media, you get a lot more of people than you used to get before internet was a thing. Tell me. And so a lot of people's dirty secrets or terrible inner thoughts are just like being aired on the internet and then archived forever.

Rupert Booth: Social media. I, I've described social media once as basically being a kind of macrocosm of the entire human race, the best and the worst without any filters in between. Yep, yep. And it's fascinating.

Jala: It is. And that's another thing that I will be talking about on this podcast at some point, because we go in between media and topical stuff, so.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Anyway, when was it that you ended up deciding that you were going to go into acting and writing and all of that? And which one of those came first? I, I must

Rupert Booth: commend you to begin with. That was actually quite jinx. When was the first time? So what? I dunno. I mean I've always basically been a creative and not much else.
I was always pretty good at writing at school. Generally got picked to be the narrator in school plays cause I had a decently clear voice. It was a good speaking voice and all that sort of thing. Constantly building things out of plastic ceiling and Lego and then cardboard and plastic and everything.
I get my hands on. So it's, it's just been a, a fairly con, there was never a time when I wasn't like that, like this. I mean, I was smaller than I am now, but, but yeah, in terms of deciding to actually go into it professionally, oh, that would imply that I had a, a career progress in mind, which wouldn't be accurate.
I just sort of slipped into doing bits and pieces here and

Jala: there, and I kind of feel like that's sort of, A lot of people's avenue because mm-hmm. I'm somebody who started by doing a lot of writing and then, you know, I was drawing and painting, and then people are like, mm-hmm. Hey, you know how to do that thing.
Can you do that thing for this production, this thing that I love do? Yeah.

Rupert Booth: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Oh. Very much started off doing amateur stuff, mostly my own as soon as I got hold of a, a good old VHS video camera, I was churning out. Stuff practically on a weekly basis with an increasingly large group of friends, all of whom, as you say, had their own talents and would bring that into
it.

Jala: Yeah, and that's really the best when you have like a group of folks that you can do that kind of thing.

Rupert Booth: Oh, absolutely. You need your team. You absolutely need your team.

Jala: Yeah. Yeah. Well, especially because you learn so many different things from different folks and you kind of pick up extra skills along the way that help you out.

Rupert Booth: Absolutely agreed. Yeah. Yeah. We're, we're better together. That's all there is to

Jala: it. Yeah. Yeah. So what kind of media influence, like your early, early writing

Rupert Booth: television mostly. Certainly I was never big on listening to the radio. I was never, audio kind of leaves me a bit cold. But television was this constant presence.
I mean, before the internet, I suppose it was, it was the screen that everyone was glued to all the time. So, and, and from very early days it was science fiction. It grabbed me the most. Things like Dr. Who to go to go back and, and various TV shows. I could mention that you probably never heard of.
Yeah, so that fired the imagination and, and, and books, science fiction books as well. I was a voracious reader as a kid and an adult until I actually took up writing professionally, where upon I lost interest in reading, almost completely working with words. Didn't want words in the.

Jala: Yeah, I understand that because I do office work and I also am a personal trainer and I program people on the computer and I podcast, so like so often I just like run screaming from my office.
I can

Rupert Booth: imagine. I can imagine. Yeah. Yeah. I like, I like to keep a variation. I mean, normally, for example, I'm building a part of props. For a production game that's gonna be shot this year. And also finishing off the script for that game when I bored with one Cope anymore. So
creative juices very.

Jala: Yeah, that's, that's really how I find it to be for me too. Like when I was doing a lot of commission painting work, I swear to you, every single person wanted a portrait, just like this photo in oil uhhuh, right? Yeah. And it gets so draining. It's like, where did the fun go? Yeah. Like I, there, where's the variety?
There's nothing I like, I like to play with media. I like to play with different styles. I like to do different types of activities. Yep. So, I'm

Rupert Booth: definitely one of those pipes. Mm-hmm. Keeps, keeps the brain going, keeps, keeps you from getting

Jala: bored. Yeah. So, kinda backtracking a little bit, you mentioned Dr.
Who. Yes. And I have to say I Googled a lot furiously and found that you played the doctor in some fan works before you up being actually like on set for a doctor Who thing? Official thing, so, oh.

Rupert Booth: Who set visit? There wasn't that production going on then, but I, I yeah, I got a set visit I visited, which was brilliant.

Jala: Awesome, awesome. So what was that like for you? Playing the doctor

Rupert Booth: bbc. I mean, it was amazing. Yeah, it was my, my favorite set of the new series for a start. I mean, I'd always, in the seventies, I'd watched it on and, and, and I'd write to Jimmy cause that's what kids did in the seventies and say, please, Jimmy, can I come and visit the, fortunately for me, he never got back to me.
But yeah. So it was, it was, it wasn't obviously quite the same as it would've been as a child, but it was a, it was a, yeah, it was the I dunno if anyone listening knows Dr. Who, but it was the Peter Capaldi set. It was during his era. I went in, it was, it was a complete room. So you walked in through the police box doors and actually all you can see is tardis and that was amazing.
It was, and since I build things, I, I was very much, you know, impressed by the build quality as well, and sort of studying everything, memorizing every switch on the corner, pressing every single button. Like, like a trial basically.

Jala: Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's really cool. And by the way, just like a spoiler our listener constituency consists of a bunch of people who have played the games that you've been in.
Right? And also like Dr. Who, so who I have to ask you. Tom Baker,

Rupert Booth: awesome. Tom Baker because I was the right age for Tom Baker followed by, funnily enough I did do called use random generator mash up. The numbers from one 13 so far as, and there's your doctors and 1, 2, 300 odd stories. And so you get a a story with the wrong doctor and it made and made in the wrong era.
You know, like a William Har story made Peter Davidson or, or something like that. And we realized that we hadn't done our ranking of doctors for years. So I, I actually got a list right next to me here, my favorite doctors. Yeah, my second favorite one is William Harel. My third Patrick Troutman. And I could go on, but it would be boring, I suspect.

Jala: Can I just say that I think it's hilarious that you have to reach over and go reference to say, who is my second favorite? Because you've got it on a list over there because it kinda

Rupert Booth: changes on a daily. That's the thing, you know, you wake up in the morning and kinda go William Har mood today, and, and, and he just rules for the day.
I suppose I'm, I'm, I'm biased towards the classic run of doctors because I was a child, you know? Yeah, yeah. Peter Capaldi's my highest of the new new series doctors,

Jala: so that's, that's really cool. So, When it comes to your writing, you said that you were writing from like an early age. Yeah. Yeah. So what was the first piece of writing that you actually published?

Rupert Booth: That I published or got published? Cause I think I recall duplicating stuff and, and giving it to people at school. Um-huh. Which didn't increase my popularity, but hey, I enjoyed it. God, I can't think. I think it might, it might have been Short story for very early, big finish about 20 odd years ago maybe.
Mm-hmm. Not sure. Not sure. Sorry. I can't be definitive about that. That's fine. That's fine. It's probably something I did in the nineties that I've completely forgotten about, but that you'll find that happens when you get

Jala: old. So big finish. That would be the Bernice Summerfield works. Yes,

Rupert Booth: but I don't think I wrote one of them.
Oh, I did write one of them later. I co-wrote one with John bl, but I don't think, the first thing I can't remember was that, I can't remember.

Jala: Might have been, well, the furthest back that I could scrounge was a couple of pieces that you did for the Bernice Summerfield anthologies. Sure, sure, sure,

Rupert Booth: sure.
Well, was it the prisoner's dilemma?

Jala: Oh, I don't know. Prisoners del Dilemma. Let me see, when did you write that? That was two five. Five. Right, but before, that was a short story that you did with Barry Williams in 2003. Yeah.

Rupert Booth: So, oh, well,

Jala: probably something like that. I'm sure you probably ended up ended up like writing some of those things at the same time.
It's just the publication dates were whatever. Yeah,

Rupert Booth: that was happen. I mean, the prisoners took a while to write, but

Jala: So you did a couple of things with Jonathan Blumm. Yes. You did that one short story. Yes. And then you did the Prisoner's Dilemma, which is based on the prisoner, Yeah. TV show. Yeah, absolutely.
So what was that like, creative process like when you were collaborating to write like a novel versus Well, working on a screenplay or something.

Rupert Booth: Was in Australia and I wasn't. So it was pretty much all done across email for a start. We, it was commissioned by the wonderful mate Lato of Paris Media, who I'm, I'm still doing things with, actually, I had a chat to him this morning and that was at a convention in the States, I think in about 2003 maybe.
So we talked over initial ideas in person, and then it was very much go away and, and, and we evolved the plot line together and then just started filling it in. Really, I think it was a case of he would write one chapter and I would write another one, but it then became, and, and then we'd send them back and forth and we'd get our fingers on each other's work and start playing around with and, and very organic.
Very organic. In that way. John would write about three times as much as me. That's the way he, he talks about three times as.

Jala: Yeah, and the thing is, is that, you know, volume doesn't necessarily equate quality, although, no, I believe in his case. Yeah, I was gonna say, I believe he's like a pretty established author, isn't he? He's pretty good. He's pretty good.

Rupert Booth: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I did have to go through and remove some of his Americanisms because it's a very British series.
It's the sixties thing. Number six is British.

Jala: Yeah, I imagine that would be like kind of, you know, you acting as editor, but also doing some of the writing that that would be a kind of an interesting bit of a role. Did you have like an editor also run through it?

Rupert Booth: Yes. Mateo, Mateo was the publisher. He's a, he's a very, very good editor actually.
So we, we, I think I, I can't remember the process whether we actually finished a complete first draft and sent that to him or whether we sent bits and pieces as we went along. But I do remember. Yeah, quite an input.

Jala: Was there anything that you remember that was like, taken out that you were sad about having taken out?
Or was it just like fine tuning stuff? No,

Rupert Booth: no, not that I recall. Probably was, but it would've been a line here or there? I don't, not that I remember. No. No.

Jala: Awesome. Well that's good cuz like I've heard kind of all different kinds of things depending upon how each person writes, like, Sure. Sometimes the editor is ruthless and chops and hacks, you know, and then other times it's just kind of like lighter editing work.
Like a light touch. Oh no, he's a. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the pacing on that book, by the way, is great. Oh, I have not seen the original TV show, although it's on my docket. I got, mm-hmm. Really, really sick in the lead up to recording this, and I was just kind of out for like a week, week and a half, and just sleeping.
So I intended to watch some, I did not get a chance, but I did read some of books so far. Yeah. Okay.

Rupert Booth: So well, I hope you enjoy it when you do watch it. I, I think it's an amazing series to this day. I think it's amazing. It was, that was very influential on me when I first saw it.

Jala: Well, I will say that in the Community Discord for my podcast we did get into a whole conversation about that show and there were Uhhuh, several people who were enthused.
So, yeah. You know we might be doing like a group watch or something at some point. Oh, spend it, spend it. So, How did you come to the decision to write a biography of Patrick? How do you say that? Magu Magu. Okay, Magoon.

Rupert Booth: So that was girlfriend at the time was London. Said some ideas quickly I can take
actually happened. But it was something that I'd been brewing for years and years and years. It, I think one of the main things that, that spurred me on was that in 2009 he passed away and there was so little about it on the news. There was so little about this man who'd done this amazing series and, and very much put himself on the line to do it as well.
Cause I thought, well, there should be more, there should be more ado about him. I thought so. So if you want something done, do it yourself. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And, and I'd be fascinated by him ever since first seeing the series became a member of a fan club and, and read articles, read any book I could find about the prisoner, about him.
And that wasn't a biography. And so it just seemed, you know, I I wanted to put my, my theories cross about him and about what the prisoner means and why he made it. And it was so, so I've been. For my own amusement and interest, I've been researching it on off for years basically without necessarily realizing I was doing it.

Jala: Mm-hmm. I was gonna say like how was that research proj process like? But it sounds like you were already like on it and you just basically were like, oh, I remember there was this article here that I read. I can go back and refer to that.

Rupert Booth: Yeah. I mean, I've already gathered an awful lot of material. What I hadn't done was put it in order.
The main research I had to do for it was actually order his life. I come up with my theories about him. And what he believed and all that sort of thing beforehand, but I needed to know things like, you know, which play was he in, at which theater and which year, what did that lead to? How did he get the job of danger Man, you know, all, all the, the sort of the time scale really of his

Jala: life.
Yeah. So that was the one thing that I, I think that I saw that you wrote solo, so how was that like versus, you know, working with somebody collaborating and then also like from fiction to non-fiction is a jump too.

Rupert Booth: Sure, sure. I mean, very different process. Yes. Because obviously I wasn't having to come up with everything myself, but I had to make sure everything was right.
I think it's more rigorous, right? Nonfiction. It certainly was for me. I mean, I only had about three months to write it, so it was very much a job of work. Get up in the morning, start writing at eight o'clock in the morning, finish at midnight every single day practically. Watch an awful lot of stuff in the background.
Rick Davy, who, who's a well known prisoner fan supplied me with an awful lot of material that you couldn't buy, you know, just wasn't available. Rare stuff and things like that. So yeah, it was, it was very intense. It was very intense writing it. And as you said, because I was writing on my own, there was no one else to turn to.
So you just have to get the words out, get the words out.

Jala: Yeah, and that kind of sounds like what is it called? Nno? Remo national op writing.
I know, like people have asked me, are you gonna do that? And I'm like, no. Never. Yeah. Do you realize how many things I do with myself? I do not have time or energy to rub together.

Rupert Booth: Indeed. Exactly. Exactly. So yes. If isn't anything for me as it then I ain't doing it.

Jala: Yeah. Yeah. So kind of like circling back to the Dr.
WHO stuff do you have any fun stories from your time doing like the fan works, being the doctor, all of that

Rupert Booth: stuff? Oh God, yeah. I mean, that was all tremendous fun. I think my favorite stories generally involved when we took over a little village and filled it with seven or eight cybermen. And, and, and we have the targets there, you know, the full police box that I've built and the village basically came out and were asking for autographs and saying, can we be extras and be shot byman and stuff?
And that was very fun.

Jala: Oh, that does sound really, really fun. That, that's very cool. Like I'm just grinning ear to ear, just imagining it in my head. So that just sounds really fun.

Rupert Booth: No, it was. It was, it was an awful lot of hard work. I mean, I have a lot of building not just the exterior of the tiles, but the interior as well.
And that, that was, that was a lot of work. But we were young. Yeah.

Jala: Yeah. Being young is, is kind of like, it is kind of like, okay, they are remaking a lot of video games these days and mm-hmm. A lot of what the listenership of my show talks about is how did I ever play this orig the original game all the way through, and it's just like, chalk it up to being young and just enthusiastic you

Rupert Booth: Absolutely.
It's a marvelous thing. Yes, yes, yes.

Jala: Yeah, so about your role in contradiction. Mm-hmm. I Googled around and mm-hmm. It's kind of like the Kevin Bacon game of trying to figure out how you got to contradiction because there was like a connection. From Dr. Who that you became friends with, John, who has a passion for the prisoner, and that's how you became buddies.
And then he told you about the contradiction and somehow you walked away with the lead role of the protagonist. Yes. Yes.

Rupert Booth: That's pretty much exactly what happened. I'm not sure I can elaborate on that. I, I do remember the phone call. Yeah. John and I have been talking for a while and he said, oh, there's this thing going on.
There's this interactive game type thing. And I went, right I'm gonna try and get you a partner. And I went, right, nonplus. And then he came back about a month later saying, I'm afraid you didn't get the part. And I went, right. You got the leave and, and. Right. So I said write a lot basically. And then a couple weeks later got sent the script through and it was a brick, it was enormous.
And I started flicking through it, thinking, expecting something linear, you know, something I could get my head around, couldn't get my head around any of it. Didn't understand your word, I think to have, say the same lines again and again and again. And I, I just did not understand and thought to myself, right, the only way to get through this is to literally just say the words.
Just say the words that are on the page in the way that the director wants. So yeah, got there, got to the location, which was the northwest of England, which always rains, therefore wearing my hat in a big overcoat. And Tim Fallen, who I talked to on the phone that hadn't met until that point, took one look at me, dressed like that and went, oh yes, we'll have that.
And I thought, because that completely contradicted, which is appropriate. Everything I had in mind, I had an ordinary sort of soup jacket underneath and I was gonna play it quite gruff. Quite, you know, quite sort of straight, but you know, no detective who's gruff straight terms of gonna long looking like Dr.
Who basically, I mean, you know so that rather informed it.

Jala: Yeah, I imagine that, that so, so that would be kind of part of your input, like you were just rolled up on set and they're like, Just like that, and you're like, I suppose, I suppose,

Rupert Booth: yeah. I mean,

Jala: I mean like you kind of informed that character.
I

Rupert Booth: suppose, yeah, I, I, Tim did an interview last week, which I listened to where, where he credits me quite a bit with, with the, the style that Jens was done. And I, I refute this. I, I, I say again that he asked me to play it, you know, kind of a bit camp in terms of more theatrically because like I was in the Avengers, he said the, the sixties TV series, the, the stuff that we'd all grown up watching.
Sixties and seventies stuff, you know, cause sixties stuff was being repeated when we were kids, where the actors came from a theatrical background and it wasn't quite as naturalistic as it is now. I find it more interesting, I think it's a lot more fun. I want naturalism. I'll walk out into the street and see people wandering around being miserable and grim dark.
So yeah, that's, that's what I aimed for. Whether I hit that or lot, whether I just went rocketing over the top, I think I did. I couldn't watch it when I first saw clips. I mean, even nowadays, I just cringe at Jens. But everyone else seems to like it, so. Alright. I'm wrong. Yeah.

Jala: I will tell you that there are a couple of folks at least that are in the listener community slash also co-hosts of mine on the video game podcast that I'm on Uhhuh and they absolutely.
Wanna do like Coplay as Jinx?

Rupert Booth: I'm not sure. I mean, love that. I've seen Coplay as Jens people have. Yeah. Cause, because one lovely thing about it has been the response on Twitter fans, all of whom have been absolutely glorious. And there's been fan art and people send me pictures of themselves with the hats on giving it the, if I did this, this and I, I, I just sort of sit there comparing it to my own life and going blind in the nineties, I was trying to, The document, meaning dressing up a Cybered conventions, it's the same thing, isn't it?
Except happening to me. It's very strange. Yeah.

Jala: I imagine that it would be like strange, but also kind of flattering to have that. Oh, immense. Immense.

Rupert Booth: Great.

Jala: Well, I will say that all the hundred million times that you had to say the same lines with just slight variation in that game. Uhhuh, like I actually recently did a play through within the last several months. And because I actually came to you not from that game first, I saw you in Shapeshifting Detective first.
Yes. Yes. And I was like, I really love the guy who plays Chief DuPont. And then the people on the video game podcast were like, that's Rupert Booth. He's Jinx. And then they started quoting and I didn't know what they were saying cause I had what're talking about

Rupert Booth: yet. Love that.

Jala: So I kind went backwards and then got to your more famous thing later.
So

Rupert Booth: yes, very much lives. INX Shadow, which is a shame.

Jala: Well, well, I will say that I still like DuPont's character anyway. So I like DuPont.

Rupert Booth: I like DuPont. He was much easier to play. He had much more connected to

Jala: him. Yeah. I, I think I had interviewed Tim and Linda from Di Becky mm-hmm. Last summer, and, When they were talking about it, they're like, you know, cause I was asking 'em, well, how much input did the actors have?
Mm-hmm. And they're like, oh, not really that much, because they have to have it worded, especially with like Dr. Decker a very specific way because of, you know, like this and that and the other that they had planned out. So I'm sure that that was very straightforward. And then also, like, since you're not the protagonist asking questions in every single scene, you don't have to repeat yourself as much.
What

Rupert Booth: I've said before, I mean, Jens is very much, he, he's the game character. He's you, he's, he's the function. He's there to ask the questions, not to be a character in himself. Whereas DuPont actually did have a character about him. You know, he was in there with the other character as well as in, in contradiction.
I was sort of sat outside and not getting to do of the juicy stuff because that was, I just had to provoke them during the juicies.

Jala: Well, I would argue that Jxx has quite a lot of character because why else would everybody be like, Jen,

Rupert Booth: it's James. Yeah, well that's

Jala: just, it's just you. You just brought it

Rupert Booth: Bizarre performance.
Well, thank you. Thank you. I'll take that. There wasn't much to go on, you know? That's why I went over the top. I mean, that's one of the reasons you every day is saying the same thing. It's kinda how I, how can I say this in a slightly different way to keep it interesting for me as much as for anyone else.
Because I have no idea how it's all gonna fit together.

Jala: Yeah. I imagine that that would be kind of a challenge when you have something like, you know, an adventure game that has branching paths and, and all these different ways that conversations can go when you're having to record redundant stuff, but you're only seeing one side that that would be mm-hmm.
Very, very hard to even imagine what's actually happening. A

Rupert Booth: lot of it when I wasn't just asking the same questions was things like, yes, no, well context, anything. So yeah.

Jala: Yeah. That sounds like that would've been a unique experience. Oh, it was. It was. Well, especially since you didn't play those types of games to roll up on this set and be like, okay, I'm just supposed to record like this and I have to say this thing, you know, five times.

Rupert Booth: Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, if, if I were to be in another game like Contradiction where it's just a functional character, you asking, you know, it did contradiction two, I'd have the experience of contradiction one behind it. It'll never be quite like that again, because I'd know what I was doing this time and I don't just not worry about it.
Well,

Jala: I think that, Like just imagining your position, not having played the games, have no idea how it fits together, not playing the game yourself, and then later on, just like it evolves into all of these people having like this big fan following and you're like, what? What is even happening?

Rupert Booth: That's what I was like in 2015 when it came out with Sean in 2014 and then 2015 I, I think by about this time in the year, Suddenly it came out on Steam.
They'd been out on Mac and had a little splash, you know, and a few reviews, all of which were negative of me. And, and I was very much folding my arms and going, yeah, well there you go. I didn't know what I was doing. I'm fine. I'm not feeling bad about it, but while feeling really bad about it. And then suddenly my, my Twitter following, which was 10.
Suddenly starts shooting up on a daily basis and people were, were saying this to me and I was sitting there going, what the hell is going on? What am I, so what do I do here? No one's warn me about this. No one, no one tells you, you know, no manual. And then the fan art start appearing and I'm just getting more freaked out and going.
It was very strange, but very nice. You. And then I suddenly start thinking, huh, this is the thing. Maybe I should look at getting into games. Oh, God. So I started looking at getting

Jala: into games. Yeah. Yeah. I was gonna say like after that you've been in several different FMV games for sure. Yeah, yeah.

Rupert Booth: Several, several of which aren't actually out yet. And, and had also been planning my own for a while, which were on the point of getting financed in a shooting. That's what all the props are for. Yay. Yay. That's exciting. It is actually,

Jala: yes. So, When you were doing the Shapeshifting detective mm-hmm. And you were working with vei, that role was markedly different than Janks.
Yeah. How was it versus like when you played Gideon and the dark side of the Moon, which that's very fun because you're the villain there, but then like from the beginning of the game, it's just like, Good and evil. That guy's evil.

Rupert Booth: It's, isn't it? Yeah. It's just, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's no pretense about Gideon.
You know exactly where he is, even when he's pretending to be a policeman. I don't think he's very convincing, pretending to be nice when he is sitting there strangling a bunny, but he doesn't care. He doesn't have to, he's got the powers

Jala: of the God. Yeah, absolutely. And I was gonna say like if you played Dr.
Who, and then you're also playing Getin, who's an alien. Okay. Yes. I'm seeing a theme, something. And then there's also like, you get put into the role of a detective. Probably Jens is re, you know, the reason for that, detective, policeman, whatever. And Oh yes. So, oh, you've been in that role quite a bit as well.
Do you like mystery stuff or is this another one of those coincidental things? No, not

Rupert Booth: really. No. Again, it taxes me too hard. I can never solve the mysteries. I, I love watching a good mystery, something like Colombo or Holmes, or. Or whatever, but it's not something I tend to go to because I'm not a puzzle solver.
I'm not, I'm not someone who takes interest in delight and recreation in solving puzzles. I'd rather build something that that's, you know, or, or something like that. Build a model or, or build a replica, or build a prop or, or, you know, just, just, yeah. Watch a good story. So, yeah, I, I, I keep getting, getting cast as things that I wouldn't really be into.

Jala: Well, from what I've seen of dark code, you cast yourself in the role of an agent guy. So you did it to yourself too.

Rupert Booth: Well, technic well, I, well, no, Craig cast me.

Jala: Okay. Somebody else told you. Okay. You've gotta play that role. Okay.

Rupert Booth: So but yeah, we were all in lockdown and, and I was the biggest fmv name he available, so yeah.
Yeah, it was a secret agent, rather a detective. That's always cool. I mean, being a secret agent, you know, that's great, except that I couldn't really do any of the secret agency things like sort of standing around shooting people or smoking, interestingly, on, on corners, light bulbs,
whole it. You know what secret agents do when they're in lockdown?

Jala: Right, right. So that I, I was googling and I was like, I've never heard of this. Let me see what is this about? Not yet. And then I'm like, it's not out yet.

Rupert Booth: Yeah. Yeah. That's why, that's why Project was doing this year. The, in February, 2020, and then by the end of March, 2020, it was very clear that no one was doing anything at all that year.
So obviously the whole thing fell apart like everything else in everyone else's lives. And Craig one night emailed me late on possibly drunken and said, do you think we could make an FMV in lockdown? And I foolishly went, well, you try. So we started developing this idea. He had, he, he said, here's the, here's the tagline, what do and Scully do when they're in lockdown and they can't go out and find the aliens and things?
And I thought, yeah, that's interesting. So all the actors were free because they suddenly weren't working either. And Craig and I wrote it up and Emily weer who came up with the puzzle side of it. And, and she's a gamer. She actually enjoys that. And we shot it all and Craig put it together and it's been being coded ever since in spare time of a friend of mine who works for a games company and, and it's taken a while purely because it's being done in spare time, and we had no money for this.
No one's been paid yet, so we can't pay him to speed it
up.

Jala: Right, right. I was actually wondering because I know from, again doing a lot of research that mm-hmm. The dark side of the moon when it, it was a Kickstarter project and then when it released it had a bunch of bugs and stuff, and then it has a bunch of mixed reviews mostly.
Right. Mostly because of like the programming end of it. And so I was kind of curious if that kind of influenced the delay or whatever. But now you just.

Rupert Booth: No, they're completely unconnected projects.

Jala: Yeah. Yeah. So I just wasn't sure cuz I was like, huh, maybe that's why, because you know, here's me doing my little theories and trying to be a detective over here.

Rupert Booth: Nos can't throw money at it. Yeah, yeah. Of what it was originated. It's everyone's getting paid when it goes on release, whenever that might be.
Yeah. So I'm really keen for to go on release.

Jala: Indeed. Yes. So, how was your approach when you played the villain, Gideon and Dark Side of the Moon? How was your approach to that versus when you were doing Jenks or DuPont or whatever? Oh,

Rupert Booth: just go right over the top. Cause you can, as a villain, you can, if you're an alien God.
Yeah, I just enjoy it. Basically. It, it was much more, I, I've been watching science fiction villains all my life. I know what to do. I know what they're like. That was the easiest of the lot. Yeah.

Jala: And I have to say, like I just had the biggest grin in my face every time I was going through a part of that.
And then you would just stop and look and just have like the face, the little smirk, the face and you know, then you pop off with something dastardly and it's like, oh, this is so good.

Rupert Booth: Oh, good, good. I'm glad you

Jala: enjoyed it. You should play villains more often, even though you

Rupert Booth: are also wonderful. Villas are great fun.
M's. A great thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. People, actors always say into the best parts cause they get all the best lines. They get all the best scenes. Forget the hero, the venom gets to roll their eyes and chew the scenery and get away with it. Yeah. No, it was tremendous fun. Yeah. Very easy. Very easy.

Jala: So those two couple, those two times that you did play the FMV games mm-hmm.
That you were in. Did those actually influence you at all when it came to doing any of your projects thereafter about other FM B game stuff, or did you just delegate that to somebody else to figure out how it works? Well,

Rupert Booth: no, they weren't an influence because I. Spent what I did, the whole process basically of sitting down and learning how to write branching narrative in the first place.
And the way that I finally got into it was remembering the Choose your Adventure books from the early eighties. Mm-hmm. So Steve Jackson, Lee, and Livington, which I got out from the library and, and played avidly. And I thought, oh, wait a minute. They are games. I do like games. Just a certain kind narrative.
And I went, ah, I get it. Now I understand how these things work. And then come to the conclusion that basically the rules are exactly the same as any other kind of written me, any kind of storytelling. You want a good story with good characters in it, the fact that it branches and that a complication, but it doesn't change the basic things that I've learned over the years of just right.
A good story and put some nice dialogue in and, and, and make the characters pop. Hopefully yeah.

Jala: Yeah, so something I'll mention on that note. Mm-hmm. There are also visual novel games, which, you know, they're primarily text and, you know, they're not as driven by like actual screen footage, but Right.
There are branching paths on those two. Mm-hmm. And certain of them do a thing where you can reach several bad ends and you kind of have to bang your head against all the bad ends from all the decisions that you make. Mm-hmm. In order to influence your decisions when you replay it to get to like the true ending.
Right. And. And like that gets worked in with stuff like time travel or mm-hmm. Just like, you know, some other kind of esoteric stuff. Mm-hmm. And I've never seen an FM v game do something like that probably because it would have to be such a massive undertaking to do.

Rupert Booth: And this is, yeah, this is it. You know, you've gotta bear in mind when writing, look, you've gotta film all this.
Yeah. And every shot is gonna cost money. Every, every, every iteration, every branch you take is gonna cost money. So it's, it's very much a case of, you know, here's what you'd like to do, but here's what you end up doing. Cause of feasibility.

Jala: Yeah. Yeah. I just kind of wonder. Is that something that you might consider doing at some point?
Not like an actual FMV thing, but something that's more text-based branching path. Oh, if

Rupert Booth: I can never write branching narrative again, I'll be delighted. Seriously? Like does my head in so if there's any money in it, possibly. But otherwise, no. I mean, don't get me wrong. If this game that we're making this year's success, I'll immediately do a sequel.
Yeah. But yeah, yeah, it's, it's getting easier, but it doesn't come easily. I'm a gamer
that makes me work.

Jala: Well, and then too, like if you have your C of what you wanna do with it and you know, you don't like, cause it gets really, really complicated when you start doing extra branching paths that have alternate endings and things. I've got, oh man. Yeah. I've had, yeah. Well, it's kind of like Tim and Linda.
They seem to like doing those kinds of things when they're doing their idea. Becky games, they love their branching paths. They're a

Rupert Booth: bit mad, you know, they seem insane on the surface, but they do seem to actually enjoy doing this. Yeah, it's, it worries me.

Jala: Yeah. But they do it very well, so they can,

Rupert Booth: they do, yes.
The one I'm planning is much more as an interactive movie. You know, it's not as in depth in terms of gameplay and, and where you can go as, as what they do. Certainly not what I've seen in murderous news. Cause I've seen stuff, you see, I'm it. Yeah. But, but there are, I branch as much as I can and there are puzzles that you have to solve at various times that take you outta the the, the film side of it as such and become more graphical.

Jala: Got it. Got it. So can you tell us any more about that secret project? I'm playing an alien. Oh, yay. Oh, yeah,

Rupert Booth: yeah. I'm, I'm, I'm playing a refugee from the first universe of all which isn't around anymore.

Jala: Are you a detective too? No,

Rupert Booth: no. He works things out, but, no, no, no. He's, he's he's a, he's a bit of a, he's a bit of a devious little sod.
You're not quite sure if you can trust him or not, but he gets embroiled. There's basically a threat to the entire world, and he has to help to find the mad scientist behind it and stop the world being destroyed. And if you don't do that in time, then the world gets destroyed. So, you know, it's all playful.

Jala: Yeah, that sounds exciting. So hopefully that gets, like is this something that's being crowdfunded or is it just like private? Private? No, no, no. We have an investor. Oh,

Rupert Booth: okay, great. Which is something I'm looking forward to reveal, but I'm not gonna talk about much yet, obviously. Yeah, yeah. But that should be, that should be quite exciting all around.
And yeah, that's that's what I'm busy building prop. Cause it's science fiction, so this is of science fiction, props. It's all set in, in, you know, the modern word. It's all set here and now. So there aren't any big, expensive sets to build, but there's lots of hand props and, and costumes and things to

Jala: do.
There's always a lot of production that goes behind. Oh yeah.

Rupert Booth: Yeah. And there's a scroll on the podium.

Jala: Mm-hmm. So other projects that are coming out. So I know Murderous Muses comes out on April 12th and you are in that as a voice, correct? I am. I am, yes. Awesome. And so all the people listening need to go ahead and put that on your wishlist if you don't already have it on your wishlist.

Rupert Booth: I think. I think, I think Tim won't by me saying, guess what? I'm playing in that. Could it be a detective?

Jala: Maybe, maybe a detective who knows.
Could be an alien. No, it's

Rupert Booth: a detective.

Jala: Ok. Well, I, I was just hoping. Okay. Anyway do you play an alien in Fog Town?

Rupert Booth: I can't remember what I play in FoxTown. That hasn't started recording yet? Or not least on parts. Ok. Ok. But yeah, maybe I'm a detective. I think I'm a detective.

Jala: You might be a detective in Fog Town, which is she block.
Yeah. And block.

Rupert Booth: So clearly I should just write Alien Detective story, shouldn't I? Clearly that's, I'm heading

Jala: That seems to be like where, where you're at. Yeah. Yeah. Although it'll be good to see you in a role that's not pure villain and not pure hero character. Oh
yeah.

Rupert Booth: This, this guy's very shades gray.
Mm-hmm. He's quite, he's quite moral about it. I mean, you know, he'll warn you beforehand, don't get in my way or I'll shoot you in the back and if you get in his way, he'll shoot you in the back. But he'll go, well, I warn you, you fair?

Jala: Yeah. Yeah.

Rupert Booth: Will be in the back.

Jala: So do you have any writing projects that aren't like for a game or screen project? Oh,

Rupert Booth: yes I do, but again, it's not something that's been announced yet, so I really say much. It Ah,

Jala: well you're doing, we can, we can anticipate something will come out sometime. Oh yes,

Rupert Booth: yes, yes, yes, yes. I can definitely say something will come

Jala: out at some time.
That sounds good. So, If you could create like a dream project, you have no limit to your budget, no limit to your cast, no limit to your anything. Mm-hmm. What would you do for your dream project? Well, it would

Rupert Booth: be the thing that I'm doing as a game now, except it wouldn't be a game. It would just be a straightforward narrative, which, you know, if it's popular, we might try and take it to afterwards.
Yeah. It'll be that. Yeah. It'll be this, this character of which I speak. Ooh, that's very

Jala: exciting. So,

Rupert Booth: I have a, I have a lot planned. There's lots of storyline. I know exactly where it goes and what happens and it, it, it's kinda, I could do a seven season run for Netflix. Anyone from Netflix listening? Hello?
Hello? Netflix? Yeah, so, oh yeah, yeah, it'll be that.

Jala: Definitely something to watch out for. So, yeah. Of course the show notes will have links to Rupert, but. All the listeners need to follow Rupert on Twitter if they don't already. If you're still on that platform, which is still kind of like a, a sinking ship, but you know, like it, it's still alive somehow.
So you can still go there, find Rupert's tweets. No, no, it's not about you. It's just about like the, the whole of Twitter thanks to Elon Musk.

Rupert Booth: Oh, I see what you mean. I

Jala: see what you mean. Yes. It's not you, it's not you, it's, it's Twitter. It's,

Rupert Booth: it's not quite what it was, is it? I mean, I haven't had any, no, I have seen a lot of direct changes actually.
Normally the moment in terms of my fee fills up with people I don't know and aren't interested

Jala: in. Yeah, there's a lot of that. There's a bunch of security stuff notifications not popping up. There's been all different kinds of things going on with that. Mm-hmm. So I kind of get a play by play about that because I have a lot of people in my community who are like InfoSec people, you know, and, and things like that.
They sure work. Yeah. They work directly with stuff that Twitter is undoing right now. I see.

Rupert Booth: I mean, basically, I think it comes down to the thing that we already know, which is that billionaire man children should not be involved in communications, right? Yeah,

Jala: yeah. Please take away their mic. Please take away their platform

Rupert Booth: and give, and they can happily away and influence as far as they think, and they just don't know that it's not getting any further.

Jala: Yeah, that would be even

Rupert Booth: better. Yeah. Like put them all together on an island and, and call it Petri dish one and see what cultures emerge.

Jala: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So if there was one thing that you could have your fans just automatically know via some kind of telepathic transmission from the alien mm-hmm.
Detectives mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Or whatever, what would that one thing you would want people to know automatically be. That I love them. Oh, that's very nice.

Rupert Booth: And that they should send me all

Jala: Was waiting for the rest of the sentence.
So for my very, very last question though, I always ask on this show for people's takeaways from like, the show at large or whatever, but in this case, since this is an interview, instead, I'll say, do you have like words of wisdom, some kind of, you know, something you wanna leave the listeners with? I think that

Rupert Booth: the best thing I can leave the listeners with is to ask that if I said this, would that mean anything to them?

Jala: You've just made lots and lots of people who played contradiction. Happy.

Rupert Booth: Well,

Jala: yeah. Yep. And still you. You might even just be looking down at your hand and just go. How did that become the thing? Oh,

Rupert Booth: I frequently, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, I had a, a birthday in February and I'm, I'm back living up north at the moment for the duration of the filming where, which is where I come from.
So I saw a lot of friends that I haven't seen for a long time, and I swear they were all just taking the piss royally and going, oh, should I do this? No, don't do that. Don't do that. Have you seen this before? Please

Jala: stop doing that.

Rupert Booth: Yes, I have seen that before. Stop doing that. I've seen that many, many times before.

Jala: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, that's okay. You do a lot of humor writing and you know as such, you can take a joke too, so. Oh yeah. You know?

Rupert Booth: Yes. Oh, good. I mean, well, look at Jens. It's just as well, isn't it?

Jala: Well, thank you so much for your time today, Rupert. It was a joy. Absolutely. Be honest. My pleasure. Thanks for having you.
Yeah, so everybody follow Rupert everywhere. Check out the show notes everywhere. Freaky. Yeah, don't, not everywhere. Not everywhere. I mean don't, because then you'd have like a legion. You would have a legion of people cosplaying as Jenks doing the thing with the hand and like that's the last thing that anybody, even if you really love the character wants, is just.
That's, that's too much.

Rupert Booth: Yeah. That, that, that would be if, if it, if it ever spilled out. Certainly a couple of times I've been recognized on the street, but it was freaky both

Jala: times. Well, I'm sure you're going about your day, then you're just like,

Rupert Booth: yes.

Jala: Oh no, that's very good. So, Thank you so much and thank all of the listeners for tuning in this far. This is all for now folks. Until next time, take care of yourself and remember to smile.

[Show Outro]
Jala
Jala-chan's Place is brought to you by Fireheart Media. If you enjoyed the show, please share this and all of our episodes with friends and remember to rate and review us on your podcast platform of choice. Word of mouth is the only way we grow. If you like, you can also kick us a few bucks to help us keep the lights on at ko-fi.com/Jala. Check out our other show Monster Dear Monster: A Monster Exploration Podcast at monsterdear.monster. Music composed and produced by Jake Lionhart with additional guitars and mixed by Spencer Smith. Follow along with my adventures via jalachan.place or find me at jalachan in places on the net!

[Outro Music]