[Show Intro] Jala Hey, thanks for coming! I'm glad you're here. Come on in! Everyone's out on the patio right now. Looks like a couple of people are in the garden. I can't wait to introduce you! Can I get you anything? [turned away] Hey folks, our new guest is here! [Intro music] 00:00:01.83 Jala & Dave Hello, world, and welcome to Jala-chan's Place. I'm your host, Jala Prendes (she/her) and today I am joined by Dave Cox and Kole Ross. Woo! Yay! Welcome back, Kole. 00:00:14.93 K that I didn't expect this kind of fanfare. of Thank you for having me. 00:00:17.80 Jala & Dave Yeah. 00:00:19.21 K Kind of a different vibe than the last time I was here. ah You know, it's not ah it's not a fun, goofy video game movie. 00:00:25.83 Jala & Dave Right. Right. Different vibe, but also I got to bring that energy. So, um, I cheer for everybody when they come on, like every day, every time there's a little cheer in the beginning. 00:00:35.28 Jala & Dave So how are you doing today? 00:00:37.69 K I am doing just fine. I'm trying to recover because I slipped and fell on the ice yesterday. 00:00:43.91 Jala & Dave oh No, no. 00:00:45.07 K Yeah, yeah. I can move everything just fine, but it's more of a humbling experience than anything. 00:00:52.32 Jala & Dave Right. Uh, that reminds me of like, uh, once upon a time I had a broken leg and it was like the one time that I saw snow as a child and I had a broken leg and I had caste on my leg from all the way up in my hip, all the way down to the bottom of my toes. 00:01:08.33 Jala & Dave And so, I was miserable because number one, I was too small for the crutches. So I had to scoot around on the floor on my butt, like on the floor with my butt and going backwards. 00:01:20.06 Jala & Dave And, uh, so I got rug burn real nice. It was beautiful. 00:01:22.78 K Yeah. 00:01:23.57 Jala & Dave And then also, uh, I couldn't make a snowman or a snow angel. I had to watch my cousins go play. And then also like, I was terrified to go outside and go out on the ice because I could barely like move, you know? 00:01:39.03 Jala & Dave I mean, they finally like saw it off the um ends of the crutches and then I was able to move around because they made them smaller for me, but ah then it was icy and then I was terrified. 00:01:51.13 K Yeah. 00:01:51.40 Jala & Dave So yeah, I can understand that. 00:01:54.74 Jala & Dave We just recently on our bonus show, OmakeBox, we're talking about like weird accidents and stuff. And Dave was telling us all of these stories about how he's fallen and hit his head, ridiculous amounts of times. 00:02:06.18 K oh no 00:02:08.13 Jala & Dave So Dave, um do you have a nice story you want to share before we move on? and I don't think I have anything current um that I didn't cover last time. 00:02:17.19 K yeah Oh no! 00:02:19.79 Jala & Dave I will say that my current vehicle has AC but no heater. So when I lived in Illinois and it was like 16 degrees or lower and everything was icy, 00:02:34.39 Jala & Dave I like had to get out my little, like my little mitts and scrape everything off really, really well, because I didn't have a different, like the defroster didn't work except for like the back window. 00:02:44.66 Jala & Dave And so my, my saving grace is now for the most part. It's unnecessary. I can get by here where I'm at now, but we do have some inclement weather coming in next week. 00:02:57.14 Jala & Dave So we'll see if I'm not iced up and in trouble next week. 00:03:02.33 K A car not having heat is a fake idea. The engine makes heat. Just move it. Put it in and the, yeah. 00:03:07.37 Jala & Dave but right You'd think so, but it doesn't give it to me. 00:03:10.88 Jala & Dave Even if I turn, if I turned a little, just no AC on. Yeah. It's just cold. It just pulls the outside air and I'm like, well, the engine says it's 200 degrees. It shouldn't it be giving me some kind of warmth. 00:03:22.76 Jala & Dave No, it's not routing it to me. 00:03:26.62 Jala & Dave Right, right. But yeah, so it has been a while since you were on. You were like inaugural guest back in the day a couple of years ago now, we're pushing three years at this point. 00:03:38.17 K Yeah, yeah. Time flies. 00:03:40.29 Jala & Dave So yeah, I brought you back on for another movie. Listeners will know you from Duckfeed, of course. I will give you a minute to tell folks about that before we move on. 00:03:50.97 K Yeah. Uh, it's a whole network of shows primarily about video games, but we also have, um, uh, just general media shows involved there as well. Uh, Jala, you're a frequent guest, uh, uh, not a guest host. You're a frequent host on The Level, uh, which is kind of a round table video game discussion podcaste. Yeah. 00:04:10.48 Jala & Dave Right, right. 00:04:11.48 Jala & Dave And at this point, I'm sort of more of a guest than I am a host because I've appeared very seldomly in 2024. It was like once a month maybe, um but yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:04:19.67 K Hi. I don't want to, I don't, I don't want to imply anything where it's like, ah' yeah and, and, and then here's Jala in little font now. 00:04:27.84 Jala & Dave Yeah. Well, I appreciate that. And Dave, of course, folks on this show already know you because you are such a frequent guest, but tell folks about Monster, Dear Monster. 00:04:40.18 Jala & Dave Yeah, it's ostensibly a podcaste dedicated towards monsters and their folkloric origins to their current pop culture incarnations. However, we have been stuck for the better part of the last like three, four months covering the DLC for Elden Ring because it's very long. 00:05:01.43 K Yup. 00:05:02.15 Jala & Dave And we take breaks in between, like it's biweekly as far as like that coverage is concerned. 00:05:08.41 Jala & Dave And we would love to finish that up, wrap that up because the lies of PDLC should be coming soon. And we also have to cover that. 00:05:18.88 Jala & Dave Um, but otherwise, yeah, I mean, there's, there's monster media in there. Um, I will say that there is a, uh, debt owed to shows like Bonfireside Chat and a not part of the network, but a now unfortunately defunct, uh, Dark Insight podcaste where, um, Dark Souls was covered and that was pretty much the inspiration for kicking off the podcaste as it is, which is now eight years in the running. So we've been at it for a little while. 00:05:51.61 Jala & Dave Yeah, and so you can find Monster to your Monster and of course, Jala-chan's Place and also reposts of The Level on my Ko-Fi at ko-fi.com/fireheartmedia. 00:06:04.47 Jala & Dave So ah today, as you all know, from the title of this episode, we are talking about Bramayugam, which is a movie from India. 00:06:14.89 Jala & Dave Today we are talking about Bramayugam, which translates to The Age of Madness. It is a 2024 period folk horror and thriller film from the Malayalam cinema from India. So it is a very cool film. Dave and I watched this back in February of 2024 when it came out to theaters and we loved it. And that's our history with it. We watched it in the theater, didn't know anything about it before, just went and watched it not knowing anything. And I think we had seen the trailer when we went to go watch the Hanu-Man movie. And then we were like, oh, I don't know what that is, but that looks weird and creepy. Let's go. Ever since then, I was ranting and raving about it off and on via text message to you, Kole, until I finally was like, I'm making content. Will you come on and finally watch this movie? 00:07:38.60 K Yeah. And that's the way to trick me into it. That's the way to trick me into consuming any piece of media is to tie it to a piece of content. You figured out my curse. 00:07:51.51 Jala & Dave Right. So here we are. um So let me just let everybody have a kind of roundtable about like, what do you like about the film kind of thing? Just right up off at the top before we start talking about details of production. As usual with my show, there will be a spoiler wall. So this first part will be just spoiler free, just kind of talking in roundabout terms about stuff. So Kole, how about you start us out? 00:08:20.22 K Yeah, so I've never seen um an Indian movie before, ah you know, any and if from any of the kind of kind of sub industries and language groups um around there. 00:08:29.27 Jala & Dave Mm hmm. 00:08:30.69 K ah You've spoken about them ah to me and there's kind of just a kind of a broad vague awareness ah generally of some of the more like stereotypical tropes and stuff like that. 00:08:43.29 K So I was a little bit intimidated to coming into it just because I don't have a lot of point of reference for you know some of the folklore that might be invoked, things like that. ah That was unfounded. ah This is really eminently watchable, understandable, and intriguing, I would say. And what I didn't expect for it to be was such a like pointed social commentary. 00:09:12.10 K Um, and I kind of dig it. Who knows if that's me with my little anarchist socialist heart kind of casteing that analysis onto it. But, uh, yeah, I just, you know, from a subject matter story kind of perspective was like, Oh yeah, I can like totally dig this. And it just, uh, I feel like I caught most of it. Um, aesthetically, this is wonderful. Um, I, there's the, the, the black and white. 00:09:41.74 K cinematography is amazing. And um boy, ah the dilapidation of that house and just the ah just ah pure wildness and um ah just maliciousness of the surrounding wilderness. 00:09:46.79 Jala & Dave Yeah. 00:09:57.66 K ah This is a movie that really does sell the isolation quite well. 00:10:02.41 Jala & Dave Right. And so um when I watched it, because, you know, I don't tend to recommend things unless I think that it's going to be like a home run. So, you know, like I kept on recommending it. 00:10:14.07 Jala & Dave But unfortunately, this movie, just for folks who are interested in watching it so you can have more about it before you listen to the spoiler section, ah it is currently available for streaming only off of SonyLIV. 00:10:27.24 Jala & Dave I will put a link in the show notes. But you can also this is the way that I got Kole to watch this film. I bought a like a Blu-ray bootleg version of it that I found that's very, very high quality from a certain place. 00:10:41.35 Jala & Dave And I will also put that in the show notes because I there's no other way to get this movie. So ah these are the these are the options. 00:10:49.18 Jala & Dave I rolled the dice. You are the pawn...anyway! 00:10:52.80 Jala & Dave So Dave, how about you? What are what are your impressions overall? I'm kind of like piggybacking off of Kole. Well, first of all, the accessibility of this is a shame that it's not something that is easier to get a hold of to watch because this is like an award-winning 00:11:10.49 K Yeah. Yeah. 00:11:15.41 Jala & Dave independent, like this, I can't, we can't overstate like how good the set dressing and the cinematography and the performances, everything in this is like home run. 00:11:29.24 Jala & Dave This is, uh, if I had to equate it to something, I would say it's similar to like a, um, an Eggers film, like The Lighthouse. 00:11:39.96 K yeah Yeah, that I made that comparison to Jala just over just overt text as I was in the middle of watching it. ah The Lighthouse is a very good point of comparison. 00:11:50.24 Jala & Dave Yeah. And so as far as like accessibility, viewing it, um, you know, you mentioned that, oh, you're worried about having like cultural notes and needing to have some more context for things. This, um, while it's deeply rooted in, uh, Indian culture is imminently accessible because it still deals with like human. 00:12:20.70 Jala & Dave problems. And it's, yes, just people in general, you can get everything that's happening. 00:12:28.40 Jala & Dave There's some maybe questionable translations as far as the subtitles go, but it's minor. ah And so if you can get a hold of the movie, 00:12:40.55 Jala & Dave Please watch it. I mean, we're, we're coming at this with like, this is a 10 out of 10, um, film, you know, just to not bury the lead. Uh, but I think my favorite design of this is really the, the world building they're doing, because as you mentioned, like everything feels. 00:13:02.56 Jala & Dave kind of frozen in time, but hostile. like There's nothing in this where you're going, that's a comfortable place to be. 00:13:09.72 K gives refuge 00:13:11.07 Jala & Dave and um but But beyond that, because we're tangentially made aware of the characters' plights, this place that the movie is set in is still less hostile than the surrounding environment because other things are occurring outside of the scope of the film. 00:13:31.35 Jala & Dave And the dialogue does its best to kind of keep everyone aware of the greater issues in the world of India at the time ah without having to show it. 00:13:44.58 Jala & Dave So it's doing a very good job of telling and giving acquisition, but it's not like a dump. Like you hold out very, very piecemeal little bite chunks here and there. 00:14:00.87 Jala & Dave And part of that is because that's context clues, that's in the mannerisms of the characters. There's only three real characters, main characters in this. There's a few other people, a couple other people are... 00:14:13.64 Jala & Dave more than a couple, but ah a few people also that show up, but they're not the major players. 00:14:16.28 K Mm hmm. 00:14:19.87 Jala & Dave The major players are three people. And with that, you get a lot of time with each of these characters to let them kind of like sit in their skin and also interact with one another and see how you know like When the characters are ah offering deference to or blatantly disregarding intimately or something like that, you get the message of what's happening. 00:14:47.82 Jala & Dave and you know so There's a lot of things that transcend cultures, even if it is deeply rooted in the culture of India. So um in that way, because it's limited in scale, this isn't like a political drama. This isn't in a city. This is a remote location. There's three people. you know like Because of that isolation factor, it does make it much more accessible. 00:15:13.49 Jala & Dave And I will say one of the biggest draws, and I don't know if it's just for me, but nervous, sweaty men. Do you like that thought? 00:15:25.35 Jala & Dave This is your jam. 00:15:27.32 K Everyone is glistening. 00:15:29.80 Jala & Dave Well, I mean, to be fair, they're in a jungle. 00:15:32.58 K yeah 00:15:34.62 Jala & Dave so In monsoon season. Yeah. Yep. Absolutely. So yeah, as for me, the reason why this, like it's well shot, it's well directed, it's well acted, all different kinds of stuff. ah The primary like title character um is played by Mammootty, who is a very well known, very prestigious actor from the Mollywood scene. I think he might be the highest paid Mollywood actor, Mollywood being Malayalam film industry. 00:16:07.06 Jala & Dave ah There's several different woods. There's Bollywood, which is one totally different thing, which is like North Indian. 00:16:10.11 K Thank you. 00:16:13.47 Jala & Dave There's Tollywood, which is the Telugu cinema. Then there's Kollywood, which is South Indian, and they all have different flavors. 00:16:24.20 Jala & Dave And then there's Mollywood. And then there's a bunch of other subsets because India has 121 languages 22 of which are um are the only ones that are officially recognized, but it is a very diverse country. It's very large. There's a lot of different cultures involved. There's a lot of different approaches to making cinema. So ah you know you can watch one Indian film and have no idea what this next Indian film is going to look like. 00:16:49.97 Jala & Dave But for stuff that's more like Mollywood is more often known. 00:16:54.44 Jala & Dave It's not ah not every single Mollywood film is this way, but it's known broadly as being like the actors, you know, playhouse kind of artsier films and things like that. 00:17:06.43 Jala & Dave So that's where this is coming from as a pedigree. So ah for me, this is the kind of slow, suspenseful, thriller slash horror thing. It's not really so much horror. I mean, arguably, just depends on your ah definition there. But some that kind of thing, that that sells it to me. like I am a big fan of psychological horror. That's my favorite type of horror. So ah this really works for me in that regard. 00:17:35.61 K I would say this absolutely is horror, you know, like that spoilers. Sorry. The supernatural is involved. 00:17:44.06 Jala & Dave yeah so Yeah, it's um definitely got a lot of feeling of like dread and unknown mystery, you know intrigue, as you mentioned before. 00:17:44.95 K Yep. 00:17:55.01 Jala & Dave so yeah ah Just to give a little basic plot here, because we've been talking a lot of sugar, but we haven't said a damn thing about what this movie is about. So, ah in 17th century Malabar, Thevan, paanan, or folk singer, and his friend Koran are traveling through an unknown forest and stop to rest for the night. A yakshi, which is a female nature spirit, comes to them in the night seducing and killing Koran. 00:18:22.29 Jala & Dave Thevan, which is that folk singer, runs for his life and finds a dilapidated mana or manor house and scrounges for food there. He's caught by the cook who brings him to the Brahmin who owns the manor, a Brahmin being like ah the highest caste in India. 00:18:38.46 Jala & Dave And, uh, you know, also associated with like, uh, religion and things like that, even to this day. Anyway, he owns the manor and they have on sings for him. And then Potti, that's the Brahmins name insists that he stay on forever and remain in his service, despite the ones desire to leave. So, uh, the rest of the movie after that involves power politics, creepy stuff, deeper plot and folklore. So, uh, that is your set up for this movie. 00:19:09.66 Jala & Dave So yeah, Dave, how about you tell us a little bit about the writer slash director? Uh, this guy has not very many things to his name, surprisingly. So this is written and directed by Rahul Sadasivan. Uh, he co-wrote the screenplay with TD Ramakrishnan. 00:19:28.31 Jala & Dave who worked on the dialogue. Sadasivan is regarded as a notable Mollywood horror director even though he has only two other credits to his name, Red Rain from 2013 and Bhoothakaalam from 2022. Red Rain is a sci-fi horror thriller where a young scientist investigates a series of mysterious events and suspects extraterrestrials are causing them. 00:19:52.11 Jala & Dave ah Butta Kalam is a horror thriller where a single mother and her unemployed adult son are at odds with one another. The son begins to feel like there is another presence in the house they recently moved into, but his mother doesn't believe him and sends him to counseling. There are the spirits of two people who hung themselves in the home, however, and the mother and the son duo experience several terrifying events before escaping, reconciling and moving forward and away from the house. That One sounds more interesting of the two. I would like to track that down, actually. I was going to say that as well. I'm like, oh, yeah, Bhoothakaalam sounds interesting. And ah just from watching this movie, I have some immense faith in this director ah for the quality of what his work is. So ah the production companies on this were Why Not Studios, who also released both versions of Vikram Vedha, which we've covered on the show before. Absolutely love that movie. ah By the way, 00:20:50.26 Jala & Dave Uh, Kole, the Vikram Vedha original Tamil film, if you want to see something from South India is available for free on Amazon prime, if you have that. So. 00:20:59.17 K Okay, cool I wasn't aware. You've mentioned that to me you've uh gloated but that's it I said gloated I didn't say rant don't worry 00:21:02.78 Jala & Dave I have, I've ranted about that one to you too. Yes. 00:21:07.98 Jala & Dave Yeah. yeah No, no, no, no, no. 00:21:10.13 Jala & Dave I self titled that ranting because I'm very happy to gush about that film. 00:21:15.58 K yeah 00:21:15.56 Jala & Dave So yeah. Uh, yeah. Vikram Vedha came from YNOT Studios. YNOT Studios also produced this along with Nightshift Studios. So, uh, the music was composed by Christo Xavier who works almost exclusively on Malayalam cinema. 00:21:31.23 Jala & Dave And he is known as a particularly evocative and emotive composer and is highly regarded. If you have not listened to this soundtrack before just on its own Kole, just listen to that for some real moody tunes. 00:21:42.84 K Mm hmm. 00:21:45.05 Jala & Dave It's on YouTube, the entire playlist um by Nightshift Studios. 00:21:47.69 K Yeah. 00:21:48.97 Jala & Dave So I'll put a link in the show notes for that as well. 00:21:52.46 K Yeah, no, the music is definitely additive. It's a really tense in addition to, you know, like the main character is the singer, you know, the role of song in this and the and the ritual, I think places emphasis and importance on music. 00:22:10.81 Jala & Dave Yeah, on a note on the music and particularly the singing. So on YouTube, there is extant the um the music videos of any time that Pavan is singing. And um in the movie versions, there's no subtitles for the part where he's singing and those songs are very integral to the plot. 00:22:32.91 Jala & Dave The music videos themselves are subtitled and do give translation of like the bits that he's singing because they're historical, like epic songs. The music itself is yeah, it's faint it's. There's Charlie Clouser, I think, who did these saw soundtracks, so it's I can't say it's like that, but that feeling of dread is in every track and it does. 00:23:01.78 Jala & Dave It's not heavy lifting, it just does some lifting because the cinematography does most of the work in this. 00:23:07.71 Jala & Dave um But I will say that the soundtrack for this is not gym music, maybe writing music, whereas taking a swerve, the Vikram Beda soundtrack is absolutely bangers for gym music. 00:23:21.81 Jala & Dave There's just some good stuff in there. 00:23:24.63 K The music is claustrophobic, just like they just like the movie is. 00:23:25.45 Jala & Dave Yep. Yeah. Yeah, and it's fun because the actual manna house that they are in is very spacious and big and all this other stuff. But at the same time, because it is dilapidated, because it's isolated, because there's only three of them, because of how it's shot, it still feels super, super closing in. And that comes into play with the cinematography near the end of the movie too. 00:23:51.05 Jala & Dave There, there's a lot of fun, uh, long hallway shots. And as the plot dictates, it's sort of that like, Hey, you can't go there. You're allowed to go here. And here's the place where we all meet to eat dinner. And it's the, the set and that manor house is the other character in the movie. It's like the fourth big character, really. 00:24:15.66 K you never have any sense of where they are in relation to where they have been. There are a couple of you know just recognizable locations that they're in several times, but this is very much a, ah you know you are in a non-Euclidean house of leaves kind of thing is how it feels. I mean, there's one particular shot early on in the movie where you know as the cook is kind of giving the lay of the land and explaining where at the north end of the house, you don't go into the south end of the house. And they're standing in front of what is clearly like ah like a painting in the set that shows like just a long procession of pillars as the hallway narrows out into the vanishing point, um which is really cool that it is not remarked upon as being worth mention. 00:25:10.88 Jala & Dave It's good and the house plays a lot with um ah verticality, which is more in the back end of the film, but that sense of like not knowing where you're at is fantastic because otherwise it's a closed set. it's ah It's a locked room kind of mystery feeling because they can't go beyond the route, the bounds of this manor home, there's a war going on, which we get a little bit in exposition. And our paanan has fled from ah probably like a war going on in the neighboring kingdom. And like this was his route to try to go home. He just wants to go home to his mom. Right. And it's really, um 00:26:01.71 Jala & Dave There was, there was a thing I was going to say and I forgot it when you were talking. Dang it. But there was, uh, there was something I was going to say about, um, you know, like the, the manor house itself, if it comes, if it comes to me, it does. And if it doesn't, Oh, well, that's fine. Um, but yeah, he, he definitely, the main character. 00:26:21.55 Jala & Dave ah Yes, yes. um so The sense of discombobulation that you get in not knowing exactly where you are is also important to what happens to Thevan, your main character, as the movie progresses ah internally, like mentally, where he's at and how things start affecting him as the story continues. so Uh, the fact that you get that feeling from the place itself makes a lot of sense because he is basically becoming somebody who's stuck here forever. 00:26:53.53 Jala & Dave Uh, you know, it haunting this place, if you will. 00:26:56.42 K It's real The Shining. 00:26:56.85 Jala & Dave So yeah, yeah. So the movie, uh, just to circle back to some facts runs 140 minutes and it became one of the highest grossing Mollywood films of 2024. 00:27:09.81 Jala & Dave I'm actually kind of surprised. It's not like the highest, but you know, I will say that 140, you do not notice it. Time flows differently in Bramayugam. 00:27:23.70 Jala & Dave Right, right. So ah as mentioned, the main caste we've got ah for Potti, who is the Brahmin character, the very malicious looking guy on the cover, is Mammootty. Thevan is Arjun Ashokan, and the cook, he doesn't have an official name, at least until the end of the movie, is Sidharth Bharathan. So that's what we got there. 00:27:47.81 Jala & Dave When it comes to the production, Nightshift Studios was launched exclusively for horror films, and this was their debut film. So that was a strong, you know, ah presence for their first film under this label. Follow that up, please. Like, give me more of what you, forget A24. This is the new, this is the new thing. 00:28:13.08 K I was going to make a comparison around that. I haven't, I don't know. I don't think that A24 was founded just to do horror. Um, but, uh, it definitely is like the closest thing I can think of when I think about that. 00:28:26.47 Jala & Dave Yeah. Dark Pictures, I think is the next or not. It's a Universal. Dark Pictures. I don't know. There's been a few studios that they tried to launch horror exclusive things. 00:28:38.85 Jala & Dave Lionsgate maybe is the next big contender because they, they just swerved that way in the mid 2000s. 00:28:45.29 K Yeah. The Saw movies paid off and were like, please, more. 00:28:50.16 Jala & Dave Right, right. So what's kind of interesting is that the director, Sara Sivan, said that he wrote Bramayugam before Bhoothakaalam, which is that Bhoothakaalam is the one that was about the mom and the unemployed son, you know, ah with the ghosts and stuff in the house. So he wrote two house type stuff. 00:29:10.49 Jala & Dave But he wrote Bramayugam during the COVID lockdown, which is interesting because it's all in a very combined space. And so is Bhoothakaalam. Both of these are kind of like within one set small location that these things are happening. 00:29:25.98 Jala & Dave So T.D. Ramakrishnan helped him to develop the script and make the dialogue nuanced to fit the period the story is set in. So that's what that person's role was. um The film is black and white because this is a 17th century period piece. So they're trying to bring you back to that time via the black and white medium. I feel also that If it were color, it would not work the same way as it does. I mean, like that black and white is also part of the restrictive feeling that you get when you're watching the movie. ah You don't get the color. You don't get the pop and the shine and all of that mess. You get the black and the white. 00:30:03.63 K I think that the director has said, like, I can't conceive of this movie in color. It was planned to be that from the beginning. 00:30:09.60 Jala & Dave yeah 00:30:13.48 Jala & Dave Yeah, yeah. So principal photography began on the first day of Kerala New Year in August of 2023 and filming wrapped in October the same year. So just a few months and then they were done. 00:30:26.52 Jala & Dave A couple of months actually, just two months and then they were done. And then the film was released worldwide in February of 2024. So not a lot of post-production either. They just like got into it and got it done. 00:30:37.49 Jala & Dave It's not like ah Hollywood films where it's like, how many years do they take? 00:30:42.93 Jala & Dave But then again, like they have a limited number of effects and stuff and in most of the horror, and this is something I wanted to mention too. um Most of the horror is in what you don't see. 00:30:54.31 Jala & Dave So they don't have to worry about doing like, here, let's do something creepy and scary by but having all of these bugs crawl all over him or something. Like they're not having to do all of that stuff. So they're not having to spend money on CGI for anything. 00:31:06.84 K Yeah, or the time. 00:31:08.28 Jala & Dave Yeah. Yeah, they're letting the script kind of breathe. And a big thing, um, over on MDM, we we just love practical effects and they delivered, we'll get to it, but there's just some real fun, goopiness. 00:31:16.91 K Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Um, another thing that kind of, I think contributes to the, you know, the simplicity of this, but still being effective is this is a social horror movie. 00:31:37.31 K I don't have no idea of that as a, you know, ah a genre marker that is that anybody else uses, but like, uh, on our show on filmable over on Duck Feed, which is about horror movies. 00:31:37.28 Jala & Dave Yes. 00:31:50.48 K like We use that to describe any horror movie that is very specifically ah like about ah interpersonal interactions ah and the discomfort that can arise there. 00:32:03.42 K So thinking things like Get Out, ah something like Creep, ah Something in the Dirt, ah any of these. And here, like a lot of the horror is in the performance. um And again, in the kind of power politics but between these people and just the sense that everybody is hemmed in by the rigid structure in a tragic way where the then that the noose was tightened before anybody even started being aware of it. 00:32:34.64 Jala & Dave Yeah, I will say that there's similarities between this and then the films of like Yoshi Kurosawa, so films like ah Pulse, or there's another one that I think is more in line, ah Cure. 00:32:34.96 K yeah 00:32:53.62 Jala & Dave And those are dealing specifically with like societal issues. And ah those are like, you're alone in a crowd situation. So it's, it's the opposite of this, but on the same coin. 00:33:11.20 K There's a read of this movie that puts it in a kind of similar space to like Parasite. 00:33:16.53 Jala & Dave Yeah. 00:33:19.39 Jala & Dave Yeah, so the reception of this film, so it received positive reviews, particularly for the casteing cinematography, sound sound design, background score and production design, of course. 00:33:32.99 Jala & Dave ah So Pinkvilla said, Bramayugam stands out as a cinematic gem that transcends the typical horror genre with a captivating blend of mystery, drama, and the rich mythical folklore of Kerala. It offers a compelling narrative that captivates audiences. And the news minute said, the heart of this monochrome horror thriller is, of course, Mammootty. Even as Potti makes your stomach churn and discuss, Mammootty makes you want to clap for his versatility as a performer. 00:34:01.58 Jala & Dave This guy like does, um, you know, like rom coms and stuff like that also, but then here he is being like the creepiest motherfucker on the planet. 00:34:07.38 K him is not written Yeah. 00:34:12.02 Jala & Dave So very, very good. It's, it's the energy you get when Robin Williams switched over to do things like ah one hour photo, like side of the photo guy and then insomnia, where he just, you're not expecting it, but man, he can just dial up the creep factor. 00:34:31.17 K i don't I don't think you get this performance without having somebody who really, really is able to appear to be gregarious to very broadly and ah just loudly kind of proclaim this sense of like joy and conviviality. Like you can see in everything about this guy and the you the way that He kind of carries his face and his expressions. Like he has a really just like winning smile ah that still comes through even through the prosthetics and the um the um just ah the makeup that is kind of obscuring and distorting it. I don't know that like somebody who is known specifically for their brooding 00:35:22.19 K would be able to bring the kind of contradiction to this that kind of you just ah heightens the entire thing. 00:35:30.31 Jala & Dave No, because he has to be affable. He has to be someone that like his station, uh, isn't all that he is. And oh, he's obviously, he has power and prestige. 00:35:40.12 K Yeah. 00:35:44.98 Jala & Dave It may be old prestige, but the things that he offers have to still be like attractive, but at the same time, there's like that, it's um that silk and steel where like beneath this charitable veneer, there's something so solid that you just can't like say no. 00:35:46.67 K Mm hmm. 00:36:07.84 Jala & Dave Yep, absolutely. And for me, every time that Thevan is faced with these choices and Potti is saying, you need to stay here and this, that and the other. And you see that Thevan wants to um disagree and everything. 00:36:22.12 Jala & Dave I just feel in those moments when he's making those decisions, because of those performances and you know how everything is delivered, you can just feel the weight of the caste system on him at that moment when he's doing what he's doing. 00:36:32.07 K Mm hmm. Yeah, when he just kind of squirms. 00:36:38.03 Jala & Dave but This is a film where I would love to hear commentary by the actors because there's been a few films in the past that I can't go, I can't like name them off top of my head, but where the actors in question were legitimately just like, oh no, they're terrified for, like they sunk into their character enough and then whoever was ah opposite them was just living that character. Probably I would say, 00:37:05.58 Jala & Dave The threat that is implied is similar to Daniel playing view in there will be blood where it's just like you don't want to cross that man. 00:37:16.13 K Yeah. 00:37:19.48 Jala & Dave The Week said, Bramayugam has a major reliance on visual storytelling, but its memorability isn't derived from visual gimmicks or jump scares. Instead, it's the intricate world building orchestrated by Sadasivan with significant support from Ramakrishnan within a confined yet evocative setting that truly captivated this reviewer. 00:37:43.53 K I don't know that I can name a jump scare in this. Like there is like one, there's one dream sequence where you just, you see something just kind of coming at you, but like, yeah, nothing, nothing just jumps out in an unearned or unkind of forecasted way. 00:37:46.60 Jala & Dave Yeah, there isn't. 00:37:59.67 Jala & Dave Right. 00:38:02.14 Jala & Dave right And for me, since I don't jump scare, this was great. Cause then I didn't have to worry about like, you know, missing something that is supposed to like add to the experience. 00:38:06.98 K Yeah. 00:38:11.41 Jala & Dave You know what I mean? So, so yeah. 00:38:12.65 K yeah 00:38:13.93 Jala & Dave Uh, on that note, uh, first post for the last of these little review blurbs, I have everything about this film is experiential. So I feel that's fair. 00:38:25.71 Jala & Dave So, yeah, ah that's what all I've got for the pre-spoiler wall part before we dig into the plot. ah We already said our little blurbs at the top, but ah just to kind of recap everyone who's here. So, um Dave, you can find on Monster Dear Monster. That's Monsterdear.Monster. And Kole, you can find on Duckfeed.TV. ah For folks who are listening to this, you are probably most interested in Unfilmable, which is one of the bonus shows on Patreon. 00:38:55.62 K Yeah, I could encourage you to take a look. 00:38:58.22 Jala & Dave Yeah, absolutely. I'll have the links in the show notes. So without further ado, enjoy a little bit of that creepy ass music and we'll be right back with more. 00:41:51.64 Jala & Dave All right. And so before we begin going through the storyline of Bramayugam, I want to first just give a few definitions and we will cover the rest later on as we go through. 00:42:23.76 Jala & Dave So a paanan is a low caste folklore singer. So this is like um basically your untouchables, that kind of thing. They're very, very low caste, which is why ah the actor who is playing the character of Thevan, the main character, is always kind of like simpering and whimpering constantly and kind of ah diverting his gaze. 00:42:45.69 Jala & Dave He's not even allowed to look at the Brahmin Potti unless he's given permission. And even then he's not comfortable doing so. 00:42:57.07 K And even as a singer, you know, there's the scene where he first sings a lot is made of the Potti is asking him to sing a song that he is not allowed to sing. He technically should not know it. ah So like it cant can't even sing all the songs. It is a very specific kind. 00:43:17.35 Jala & Dave Right. Right. And part of that is because that first song that he is singing is like a devotional hymnal, which should be the realm of the Brahmin. So that is why that is kind of like a sort of not really sacrilegious, but the definitely the lower caste singer is not supposed to be able to be doing that. So. 00:43:35.27 Jala & Dave ah So yeah ah Also the yakshi you see this character right at the very beginning of the movie actually it's a female nature spirit which is interpreted variously as either benevolent or malevolent in Kerala, South India That's where this is set. ah They are generally considered to be evil many folk tales talk of murdered women coming back as vengeful yakshi So there's that and then the mana or manor house ah is of a Nambodiri Brahmin that is the highest caste in Kerala and is of a lineage of priests. 00:44:13.76 Jala & Dave So Amana usually has an open courtyard in the center, although designs vary. But this means that Potti as a character, when you are introduced to him, is supposed to be the absolute top dog. 00:44:26.29 Jala & Dave You've got royalty basically here in front of you, especially for this lowly, lowly paanan. So. Everything else, all the other and words will save for when they come up. 00:44:39.68 K And the and the fact that the mana is so dilapidated and in such disrepair, but he still lords oh over it like that, that contrast or that contradiction, I think is super important to the characterization here. 00:44:52.80 Jala & Dave Absolutely. Especially when if you keep it in your mind that Potti is supposed to be this super a regal and elegant kind of figure, when you look at his actual behavior during the film, you will notice all of the contrary things that he's doing. 00:45:08.04 Jala & Dave Like a lot of his behaviors are very much not like the kinds of things that a Brahmin should or would be doing. 00:45:14.64 K yeah 00:45:15.64 K He openly blasphemes in a way that feels like he is trying to go to Thevan into agreeing with him so he can be punished. It's very tense and unusual. 00:45:27.18 Jala & Dave Right, right. And that's part of like the extra anxiety for Thevan because he's already like a super low caste, but like he's seeing both. 00:45:37.81 Jala & Dave you know the it's really a feeling, you get this feeling of Potti's character as really an abuser because this is an abuser who seems magnanimous at times you know just to get you to come closer, but then backhands you you know kind of thing. 00:45:52.86 K yeah 00:45:53.72 Jala & Dave so ah And there's reasons for that about the ah kind of torturous situation that Devon has put into, but we will get there. So Kole, would you like to start us out with some of the summary of this movie? 00:46:08.56 K Yeah, so this takes place in 17th century ah Malabar. 00:46:12.24 Jala & Dave Mm-hmm. 00:46:13.92 K but Yes. um And we've got our two kind of kind of a fake out main characters here. 00:46:19.70 Jala & Dave Mm-hmm. 00:46:20.06 K You have Thevan and his buddy Koran. 00:46:22.82 Jala & Dave Mm-hmm. 00:46:23.84 K who are running through the woods. And there's a great deal of time just kind of spent showing you ah the woods, which in the black and white feel very alien. ah And yeah, good. 00:46:33.63 Jala & Dave Yeah. And yeah, there's also a lot of just like breathing, heavy breathing when they're panicked and running through. 00:46:39.66 K Yes. Yeah, ah but they're on the run. ah Their former Lord's estate had this major fight break out as part of this war. And they ran to keep themselves alive. You know, they were in servitude and, you know, technically they're in breach by being out here in the woods. There's not really safer ways or places for them to go. And they stopped for the night and Koran, 00:47:12.03 K ends up being seduced, kind of drawn away to ah the, you know, dwelling place of this yakshi, this woman ah done up in extremely ornate jewelry. um And Thevan, you know, sees this. 00:47:27.85 K ah you know tries to warn him away but is not able to dissuade him and runs and eventually discovers the gate for this mana in the morning after trying to cross the river but being stuck at a waterfall. 00:47:46.05 Jala & Dave And that's, that's because the monsoon season is coming. So the water is risen. 00:47:50.10 K Yeah. 00:47:50.64 Jala & Dave And so this way that he thought he was going to be able to go is now blocked off. So it's the beginning of the entrapment is, is from the start of the movie. 00:48:02.29 Jala & Dave So yeah, ah while trying to crack open a coconut to stave off his hunger and thirst as he arrives at this manna, he's found by the house's cook and he's brought before the Lord of the manna, which is Kodomon Potti, who asks his whereabouts and upon learning that he's a paanan, requests him to sing for him. So ah this opening part with Potti just kind of like walking through the doors and kind of sitting down at this one little ah dedicated seat that's there and taking the time to just sit in silence and you know reach out to the cook and wait for his betel nut, which is like an addict. It's kind of like ah having chewing tobacco or something like that. It's equivalent of that, like his leaf and his nut so he can chew that and spit it at the cook. 00:48:50.04 Jala & Dave but wait So the, um, it's an areca leaf and a betel nut. And when you combine the two, particularly with the betel nut, it has a narcotic effect. 00:49:00.88 K The reveal of Potti is really great. There's ah just a huge amount of fanfare. You don't see him directly. He is as like until the face reveal larger than anything has been portrayed up to this. He's backlit. 00:49:21.39 K Um, and there's a huge swell of music. And then the reveal of him, um, with his jacked up grill and like a face that just appears, he's got that smile with those teeth and like, there's, um, 00:49:39.97 K but like make up on him to like just kind of obscure his features a little bit like there's like a like a like a like a darkness ah that is ah that that is kind of painted on to him um and just everything after that reveal reveals him to be this absolute slob and him just constantly like hocking up I think I texted you jolly this guy needs some Mucinex really badly 00:50:08.53 Jala & Dave Yeah. And that, that reveal is heralded by, he walks with a cane. And so you get the cane in his sandals, like clomp, clomp. 00:50:19.26 Jala & Dave It's very Batman. Um, and yeah, when he, he sits, everything is with like, it's laborious, but with intent, like it's his presence alone is fan fared. 00:50:20.80 K Yeah. 00:50:35.45 Jala & Dave back by himself it's heralded so there's that built-in like unease and you get that oh this you know he in the past there's no other there's the cook and there's no one else here but this was a thriving manner at one some point and would have had like people announcing him and maybe tossing petals in his but before he arrives 00:51:00.94 K the fact that there are only two people um and how just utterly ruined everything in the house is, you know, there's that courtyard, the courtyard just flooded. it's just ah It's just a pond right now. That is never remarked upon. Like, Thevan never asked, like, hey, where's the rest of the staff? Never asked, like, hey, what happened to the roof? Like, here is this Brahmin, this Lord, and just quite the question is never asked. Lord of what? 00:51:31.56 Jala & Dave Well, like for his, for his station, he can't like, you don't get to like, say any, I mean, he had to like, wait to like, be able to look at Potti. 00:51:45.25 Jala & Dave So those things are so far from his mind. 00:51:45.51 K yeah 00:51:47.96 Jala & Dave Like he doesn't even probably consider like whatever this looks like what's going on. 00:51:50.02 K um yeah 00:51:53.44 Jala & Dave That's not his, his station. He's not allowed to think about that. 00:51:57.16 K Yeah, and it just hit his strict adherence to it, contrasted with the cook who was just fucking over it all. I know. 00:52:04.06 Jala & Dave Yeah, absolutely. 00:52:06.13 K Yeah, and just, you know, like, and Thevan's adherence to that strict hierarchy, even in spite of the fact that, again, like, Poteet, it's got real, there's a Simpsons joke, just an offhanded thing in the, ah like ah and a news broadcast, Ken Brockman says, and the fake Pope can be recognized by his high top sneakers and extreme profanity. 00:52:29.23 Jala & Dave Right, right. 00:52:29.90 K Like nothing about this guy's carriage says like, oh yeah, no, just, ah and yeah, that Thevan does not like even caste a Can't caste a sideways eye at this until much later is it lends it lends and lens to the like isolation and this and the other worldliness Yeah 00:52:48.22 Jala & Dave Right. Well, I mean, he is, to be fair, he just saw his friend die from a Yoshi and then he ran here and then he was starving. And so he's starving at this point when he comes and he's just like, I don't know. 00:52:59.83 Jala & Dave You're a Brahmin. Uh, it doesn't even matter that you're like slumped over with like the emo teenager attitude in your chair. 00:53:07.79 Jala & Dave and then like spitting at the cook and in chewing your betel nut and everything and like super getting high, but also, um you know, doing all this other mess and being kind of like gross, you know, and generally gross, like, and the fact that your place is all disheveled, you know, like at this point, he doesn't tell Thevan that he needs to stay forever. 00:53:29.18 Jala & Dave What he says is, I would like to extend for you, like to have dinner. And so Thevan is delighted by this. He's like, food? Yes, please. 00:53:36.49 K Yes. 00:53:37.48 Jala & Dave Absolutely. 00:53:39.30 K I'll be your guest. I don't need to ask questions that might ruin this for me. 00:53:44.34 Jala & Dave Right, because he's in the middle of the jungle and he doesn't know where that yakshi is. 00:53:45.45 K yeah 00:53:47.98 Jala & Dave So I mean, you know, he's alone. 00:53:49.88 K Yeah. 00:53:50.56 Jala & Dave He doesn't know. He can't get past the river. What's he supposed to do? You know, this is his. 00:53:54.80 K Yeah. Oh, I'm. Yeah. I'm, I'm, I'm certainly not, uh, pretty, pretty criticizing actions or like calling him like, Oh yeah, I did a logically, therefore this is not trying to send a cinema sin. 00:54:05.24 Jala & Dave No, I didn't think you were. 00:54:05.58 K It's just like, yeah, it is just a, it is just an illustration of how powerful that, that, that caste system is, uh, you know, as kind of an establishing and establishing order that is going to be stressed to its limits. 00:54:20.61 K Uh, over the course of this. 00:54:20.68 Jala & Dave Right. Right. And so that first song that he sings is, as I said before, like this big devotional kind of thing that, you know, ah is something that you a pun on shouldn't be able to sing in the first place. He's not supposed to know that song, but, you know, 00:54:37.22 Jala & Dave that this Brahmin does not care. And so Thevan is also kind of delighted because at this point Potti is nothing but praise. He's like, you're a great singer. I would love to have you here. you know All of that mess. Please you know let me have you as my guest. like To be a guest of a Brahmin when you are that low of a caste is just like faint on a shea lounge. you know like This is a big deal. So yeah, and the cook ends up showing Thevan to a room to stay for the night and also be able to have the dinner and everything. But this is the point where he discourages Thevan from asking questions about the house or investigating any areas that are off limits. And this is, I think, the first time where he's like, 00:55:22.72 Jala & Dave You will hear some weird noises. Don't pay any mind to those because I think you hear chains rattling right about that time upstairs. 00:55:30.34 Jala & Dave And he's like, don't, don't pay attention to those noises and also don't wander anywhere. Stay in your room after dark. Yeah, he's definitely, we've had some guests and they went that way and they died. 00:55:41.95 Jala & Dave So don't do that. 00:55:42.36 K yeah no 00:55:43.79 Jala & Dave Do yourself a favor. Just go to sleep. 00:55:46.25 K this This is when they're standing in front of that amazing ah background painting of the Endless Hallway. 00:55:50.97 Jala & Dave Yeah, it's a, it's a matte painting. 00:55:52.37 Jala & Dave It's fantastic. It's like, that shouldn't be there. ah This place isn't, it's big, but it's not that big. 00:56:00.79 K Yeah. 00:56:02.01 Jala & Dave Or is it? I mean, no you know, this is that space out of time, color out of space, whatever kind of thing. 00:56:08.27 K Yeah. 00:56:09.36 Jala & Dave um So yeah, at that time in the evening, so Potti is in his like reception chamber and he's sitting there and he's drinking, which again, that's not a thing that Brahmin are supposed to be doing. 00:56:21.51 K and 00:56:22.20 Jala & Dave He is drinking, getting sloshed, and you know, Devan ends up singing for him. And otherwise, Potti is still congenial to Thevan. He's very, very... you know um like gracious and things like that, even though he's a complete slob, like he's getting stuff all over himself, he's gross. 00:56:41.64 Jala & Dave um Everything about his posture and everything is just like the gruffest, lowest version of things. 00:56:48.44 K Mm hmm. 00:56:49.11 Jala & Dave And um so yeah, at the point where Thevan finishes the song, then Potti's like, here, eat some food, you can have as much as you want, our granaries are full. 00:57:00.49 Jala & Dave And so Thevan, who's used to having like, 00:57:00.71 K and 00:57:03.63 Jala & Dave little to nothing like here's a crust of a bread and that's what you get to eat for the next three days or whatever you know is like oh my god and so he says god granted know gru you know god's be praised god be praised that i have the situation and Potti reacts in a very upset way he's very mad and he's like what you know, what does God have anything? that I gave you these things. There's no, you don't thank God, you thank me. You know, you're, you're fated to come this way. Like this is, I am, I am your universe. I am your king. 00:57:43.34 Jala & Dave And in fact, you should just stay here and you sing for me and I'll feed you. 00:57:49.58 Jala & Dave And then you sleep and then off, you know, dinnertime comes around and that's how you gotta worry about it. You just, you do, you sing, you do your job and I'll do mine, which is sit here and tell you to do your job. 00:57:58.65 K and 00:58:02.26 Jala & Dave Yeah, and that kind of refrained his emphasis on you have to do your job, which is ingrained in all of Indian society. Like, you know, part of their whole, like the culture of Hinduism is, you know, like you have to do your duty. And say, for example, in the Bhagavad Gita, when Krishna's speaking to Arjun, ah he's saying, 00:58:24.65 Jala & Dave you know, as part of this explanation, you don't have to feel bad about killing all of these people who are your relatives that you face on the field of battle right now, because you are a warrior. 00:58:33.86 K Mm hmm. 00:58:36.37 Jala & Dave You're a kshatriya. You're supposed to do battle. That's your job. 00:58:40.35 K Yeah. 00:58:41.27 Jala & Dave You're doing your job. That's all you got to worry about. 00:58:44.52 Jala & Dave Do your job. So it's interesting because they have that thread throughout this as well. 00:58:45.62 K ah 00:58:49.78 K I want to ask what might be a really basic question about and the caste system here. 00:58:56.15 Jala & Dave If we can answer it, we will. 00:58:59.26 K I just want to note know if you have a better sense of this than the than me. so Potti, ah I think very pointedly, is espousing a lot of very modern ah ideas about religion, just blaspheming in a way that feels very, I don't know, just of today or a more modern time than that than what this is, saying like, oh, it wasn't God who gave you this, it was me. 00:59:27.04 K Is there this idea in the caste system of like a noblesse oblige, where like the Brahmin are the highest and closest to God and the grace flows through them, down through the ranks as, you know, to people who, the people kind of fulfilling their station, right? Like when the normal thing to be yes, you know, be yes, praise God, and I am his instrument for this to just say it is fate, it is randomness. um is that out of line as far as you're understanding? 00:59:55.46 Jala & Dave So, the Brahmin caste themselves are the ones that are learned and are able to translate ah Vedic scripture. 01:00:06.43 Jala & Dave And because of that, they're able to read and write and, and divine meaning from like ancient texts that everyone holds to be like the truth. 01:00:14.82 K Mhmm. 01:00:18.06 Jala & Dave So it, when it boils down to it, what they say is the thing it is, is from the mouth of the gods. 01:00:26.67 K Yes. 01:00:26.78 Jala & Dave ah You can't question that. 01:00:29.57 K Mhmm. 01:00:29.87 Jala & Dave It's, it's very rigid and that's their job. Like they're specifically meant to be the translators of the Truths. 01:00:38.32 K Mm hmm. 01:00:38.86 Jala & Dave So yes, like the things that he says is like, yeah, I, I did this. So are they supposed to do that? No, but they're humans. 01:00:52.54 Jala & Dave Um, and did they probably do that? Yes. 01:00:56.38 K or just even like the polite fiction, which is like, of course, but I do have to give the due to God who put me in my place to be able to do this for you. 01:01:09.11 Jala & Dave So ah what I would add to that is that. with Potti saying this at this juncture. You have multiple things at work here. You have, number one, yet another way that he is absolutely not a Brahmin. Every red flag has been flown in your face so far about this character and him being fishy as a Brahmin in general, and also Thevan not having basically the capacity to question. ah But you also have the fact that because he's saying the quiet part out loud here. He is saying what the Brahmin meant when they spoke to their underlings. 01:01:48.97 K Yeah, I know. 01:01:49.78 Jala & Dave you know, which is what is another way of saying what you just said, which is, you know, like, yes, you give your, you know, like honor me. And, you know, it is, of course, God that gave me the capacity to give to you. 01:02:02.19 Jala & Dave So, you know, by honoring me, you honor God or something like they would spin it some way. 01:02:05.99 K yeah no 01:02:07.43 Jala & Dave But, you know, that would be the way of it. Whereas here, Potti has just thrown it out there, you know, and just like, nope, nope. 01:02:14.16 K Yeah, it's just the raw face of the power relationship unmasked. 01:02:22.32 Jala & Dave Yes, absolutely. 01:02:23.02 K Yeah. 01:02:24.07 Jala & Dave So he's just tearing off any kind of you know veneer that was left if you had any kind of ah question of what type of character he is. Which you can look at as the how the set is designed and how this manor has like fallen today. 01:02:41.02 Jala & Dave You see the bare bones of it. You see that there was like luxury and then this was a fancy place. 01:02:46.88 Jala & Dave And it's, it's fallen to disrepair, but it's still no less important that it's there. Like the history of it didn't go away just because it fell apart. 01:02:57.84 K Yeah, even though it fails to satisfy even the barest criteria of being a shelter. 01:03:04.43 Jala & Dave Right. And that's part of it, too, because your Brahmin in charge of this place is sacrilegious blatantly so. And so, you know, this isn't this just another reflection of, you know, his fall from grace or his waywardness, if you will, ands at least until you figure out more about him as the story goes on. 01:03:26.78 Jala & Dave Yeah. And, and this is the beginning of the leveled critique at the caste system is like, it's showing it for what was actually probably happening. Uh, but at the same time, regardless of what's going on, everyone's in their place and has to play their role. They don't get to buck the system. 01:03:52.04 K Yeah. 01:03:53.34 Jala & Dave Right. Everybody's still playing their part as this ship is s sinking and on fire and hit by lightning at the same time with sharks circling it as it sinks. 01:03:57.09 K I can make it rain on you, but the I don't even have ah to really provide you with the roof that will keep the rain off of you. 01:04:15.88 Jala & Dave Right. So ah after that like whole kind of scene, we skip to where Thevan later that evening is going to the bathroom and he finds a series of fresh graves, open graves outside because he's going out there just to go do his business. 01:04:32.10 Jala & Dave And then ah he sees that. And meanwhile, of course, like ah during the same scene, you also Here's the chains rattling in the attic. It's very clearly chains scratching on the floor and everything. This is the second or third time he's heard it at this point. 01:04:46.75 Jala & Dave And this is something indicative of the character. So um he's not supposed to be like out of line. Like he's removed from his station because his in his previous employer was presumably killed and he fled. So he didn't also die, even though he was technically supposed to stay there and just die um because he's kind of property. 01:05:12.12 Jala & Dave But he's here and he's told by someone who is of the same station, like the cook and the singer are of ah the same caste. Like they're equals um in an otherwise very unequal system. 01:05:30.39 Jala & Dave And he's told specifically that day, Hey, don't do these things and everything should be good. He makes it not even like a 24 hours before he's going, I want to do something else. 01:05:42.87 K Yeah. 01:05:45.72 Jala & Dave Right, right. So ah the next day after that though, Thevan comes across Potti playing Pakida by himself. So Pakida is an ancient form, a very specific form to Kerala ah of What we know in the West as Parcheesi or Pachisi, it was brought to northern India and called Pachisi, brought from the British to the West as Parcheesi. Some of the rules and stuff are different, but I have searched high and low for exact rules for Pakida, like enough. 01:06:22.13 Jala & Dave So Dave and I, just as an aside, did play um a a game of Pachisi at one point in the last week or so. So ah it reminds me very much of the Royal Game of Ur, which I spoke about on the level some time ago. ah It's kind of one of those sorts of chase games where, you know, like you've got your pieces, each person has their pieces. You're trying to get them around the board ah to the home space. And there's a certain amount of the board that is untouchable where you can go through and not be captured by other people and sent back to your start um the rules of pot cheesy. 01:07:03.79 Jala & Dave are a lot more complex than something from the Royal game of war, which we, you know, have just as a basic game from, you know, one of the earliest yeah civilizations that we had, but, um, at the same time, it's kind of, uh, interesting. I feel like this game of Pakida or Pachisi is best played with like a full, a full set of four people. Um, Dave, did you have any notes about the game itself? 01:07:31.47 Jala & Dave I didn't, other than the game looks infinitely playable for two people in the film and their dice are really cool. 01:07:42.37 K Oh, yeah. Nice. ah though They're like the cylinders that are ah that are rolled um kind of like laterally. 01:07:49.38 Jala & Dave Right, right. And um so I forgot a little step. David mentioned it um before he comes across Potti playing this game. 01:08:00.69 Jala & Dave that night when he'd gone out and he saw the graves and stuff and he heard the rattling of the chains. At this point, because he saw like the graves and stuff, I guess it just pushed him over the edge and he just like lost a little of his sense and decided he was going to go upstairs and go see what was up there. ah and Then like he doesn't see anything. He sees like the chains moving and like a figure, but then he runs away terrified and goes back to his room and closes the door. so um and I think, does he have one of the dream sequences at this point or not yet? 01:08:28.72 Jala & Dave No, not yet. Okay. So after that little detail of him going up to the attic and seeing that there was like also a bowl because the cook feeds whoever's in the attic. And so there was like a ah bowl with some food in it. Other than that, 01:08:45.47 Jala & Dave the next day he comes across Potti playing Pakida and so Potti says that Pakida drowns boredom and offers for Thevan to play with him and so Thevan is like oh my god I get to play a game with my lord This is amazing, you know, because even though things are super creepy, he's just, you know, again, with his caste being the what it is, he's sort of like just elated to be allowed the kinds of freedoms here that he's never known. 01:09:14.05 K Mm hmm. 01:09:14.21 Jala & Dave So, you know, he's like, oh, ah you know, I don't know. I like Pakida, but and he so Potti is insisting that Thevan place a wager to play. 01:09:25.75 Jala & Dave And he's like, but as a pun, I don't have anything. So Potti says that he can wager his time and Thevan's like, how do I do that? 01:09:37.23 Jala & Dave And so while they're playing this game, cause basically he's like, I don't want to play. I don't want to play. Um, you know, like he, he's talking, he's talking to Thevan and Potti is telling him that Thevan was sold as a slave in a market, but escaped before being shipped off and into the forest where he could no longer cross the river. He knew that, uh, like exactly everything that happened before. 01:10:01.22 Jala & Dave Thevan came here. Potti then offers that wager of time and he says, if Thevan wins, he can leave. 01:10:02.80 K yeah 01:10:11.18 Jala & Dave And if not, he will stay for the rest of his life in this manner and sing for Potti forever. So Thevan's like, um, no, no, thanks. I don't want I don't want to actually. And so ah Potti, like Thevan had picked up the dice at this point and Potti puts out his hand to get their dice back, but then moves him, moves his hand just in time for Thevan to drop them onto the board and therefore roll them. 01:10:39.10 Jala & Dave And so then he just kind of cackles and has like this demoniac face where he's just like, oh, look, you rolled. That means we're playing. 01:10:47.67 K and You can't walk away now. 01:10:49.93 Jala & Dave Uh-huh. 01:10:50.39 K It's like, ah you know, it's actually this isn't an offer. This is an imposition. You don't get to choose when you play this game. 01:10:55.97 Jala & Dave Right. Right. 01:10:58.45 K ah You were born into this game. 01:11:01.69 Jala & Dave Mm-hmm. 01:11:02.07 K oh And, you know, the idea of just like oh literally rolling dice and bargaining what is essentially your life or your soul ah for it. I'm just like, oh, this is a Satan. 01:11:12.03 Jala & Dave Right. 01:11:12.13 K We got a we got a Satan up in the mix. 01:11:14.43 Jala & Dave Right. Well, and the trailer, which is available on YouTube with subtitles on it, ah is very like confusing and minimal. And basically, it has just Mammootty saying, ah you are the pawn, I roll the dice. 01:11:29.07 Jala & Dave There are two pawns. This is the Age of Madness. And like those are the words to the entire trailer. 01:11:32.18 K Mm hmm. 01:11:34.66 Jala & Dave And you're like, I don't know what's going on. It looks creepy. I don't know. Let's go watch it. 01:11:39.43 K Yeah. 01:11:40.07 Jala & Dave So, but yeah, but while they're playing though, the cook is locating a chicken and begins to prepare a meal. So he grabs the chicken out and then he's, you know, like doing all the prep work, including slaughtering it and all of that in the middle, like interspersed between these points where you see Thevan playing this game. 01:12:00.87 Jala & Dave And um just another comparison, ah Pakida is compared to being like chess with dice. So think about it like that. It's it's a strategic game. Like at one point Thevan says, oh, it's all just luck. 01:12:14.23 Jala & Dave And then Potti's like, no, you also have to have skill. You have to have, you know, strategy to win this game. 01:12:22.20 K or magic powers. 01:12:22.28 Jala & Dave So. Yeah, or magic powers. So yeah, because at the end, Thevan is only one roll away from losing or winning. And Potti rolls and ends up not winning the game, but then he just kind of, you know, Thevan's all ha ha ha yay. 01:12:40.23 Jala & Dave And then Potti kind of grins and looks at the dice and then they roll and then he wins the game suddenly. 01:12:48.17 Jala & Dave They roll over their own accord. Like one, he needed to roll, I think two sixes. And then it, uh, one die just shakes and rolls over yeah like of its own accord. And it's, and they're heavy, they're heavy wooden things that are not going to move unless you rolled them. 01:13:02.85 K Yeah, he uses The Force on them. 01:13:05.76 K And I just, I love this. Okay, dice are supposed to be an equalizer, right? or everybody's set to set to random. 01:13:16.21 K It doesn't matter. No, no, I've got control over this. ah you know The dice are fate. 01:13:19.31 Jala & Dave Yep. 01:13:21.71 K Like, oh, it is fate that is the, you that is bright here. It is me. He controls fate the dice or that in the you know in the in the metaphor and even down to the terms of the wager There's the presumption that Thevan is there forever regardless Like oh, I'm going to make you the offer you need to like it is not your servitude I must win it is your freedom you must win and I control whether or not you win Hmm. 01:13:43.06 Jala & Dave Yep. 01:13:46.55 K I love it 01:13:46.53 Jala & Dave Yep. Yep. Absolutely. So do you want to carry us on from here, Kole? I've been doing the narration for a little bit. 01:13:54.45 K Yeah, ah so Thevan goes to the cook, um and the cook laughs when Thevan is, you know, out of the audience of Pote, you know, talks about how great their Lord is. and Again, the cook is over it. ah And the cook calls Potti an imposter, which you take to mean but to be metaphored. 01:14:16.73 K No, it's not. to that we' beyond yeah no Quite literally, the first thing he says about the about the Lord is accurate. 01:14:18.19 Jala & Dave Literal. yeah 01:14:24.97 K And it's the audience and Thevan who takes it figuratively. um And they kind of the that they were due uneasy, but OK before. But there's a there's like a disagreement, you know, as ah the cook is running down a Potti table and says, you know, like, hey, you can't say that, you know, we're equals. I can't say that. And so and so and so you can't like, I won't I won't be here, you know, to do, you know, to hear this. 01:14:56.72 K uh you know kind of talking you know I'm showing a little bit like oh people in the same caste enforce that on each other it's not just enforced from the top down it seems yeah um so it's a tense scene there uh and then at dinner 01:15:04.29 Jala & Dave Right. 01:15:11.32 K Potti lets slip, you know, that Thevan, you know, hey, you need to keep, you need to keep your health, you know, eat eats, please take care of yourself because you wouldn't want your mother Paru, uh, to worry. Um, and Thevan's like, Hey, I, I never said that I had a that my mother was alive or said her name. I never mentioned her. 01:15:31.37 K um And Pote asked, in the cook, saying like, yeah, so what'd you say about me before? How's this? Demonstrating his omniscience, knowing all of this. And Thevan uncovers up for the cook. It's like, wait, no, he didn't say anything bad. Don't worry about that. And Pote kind of lays out saying, hey, the cook let the other house help us stray. 01:15:59.53 K You know, and as a result, you know, they were wandering around, they were making noise at night and they went mad. And that's why they are now dead. They're, you know, in the in the southern garden killed by me. 01:16:11.83 K um I had to put them out of their misery because of what the cook did. 01:16:12.41 Jala & Dave Yep. 01:16:16.79 Jala & Dave Right. And another thing that he mentions here is that they went so mad that that like the dancer, he mentions the dancer a lot. The dancer couldn't remember the moves and couldn't dance anymore. 01:16:28.02 Jala & Dave And what good are you if you can't do your job? And, you know, again, this is that caste system. Each caste has their place and each caste must perform their duty per, again, you know, Hindu belief in general. 01:16:41.23 Jala & Dave You know, that duty is part of your religion as well. 01:16:45.96 K And also just general ah hierarchical patriarchy kind of thing. You have no intrinsic value. Your value is what you can, put what you can, as the it's in the labor you can provide. 01:16:56.34 Jala & Dave Right, right. 01:16:57.91 Jala & Dave So at that point, the cook comes in to light the lamp and is absolutely just like disrespectful to Potti. And Potti gets really mad and then insists that the cook bow down to apologize and the cook doesn't. 01:17:10.06 Jala & Dave So then Potti gets angry. And then the entire house starts shaking. There's stuff falling, you know, things like that. Everything is vibrating and um you know the walls and everything are shaking. 01:17:22.85 Jala & Dave The flame goes out and then Potti reaches his hand out and the cook is forced to kneel and is brought towards his hand and then lifted up by the throat by Potti, who just like is choking him out. 01:17:33.07 K you Yeah. 01:17:34.47 Jala & Dave He Force chokes him. Yeah, like pulls him in and Vaders him. Yep, absolutely. So Thevan tries to stop Potti, but then ah is insulted by Potti and then ordered around roughly and, you know, basically doing all the stuff that the cook said Potti was going to do. 01:17:53.87 Jala & Dave Like the mask has just come off because the cook was showing Thevan. 01:17:58.30 Jala & Dave He's like, you're not going to believe me about this guy, huh? 01:18:00.99 K you 01:18:01.00 Jala & Dave Well, OK. I'm going to show you, I'm going to prove it to you what's going on here. So yeah, then Thevan asked the cook later that evening who Potti really is and how he knows of Thevan's mother. 01:18:07.15 K Yeah. 01:18:13.57 Jala & Dave So the cook says that Potti did kill all the house help and that the cook had buried them previously. And then he goes into story mode. So Dave, do you want to tell us a little bit about story mode when we, when we um go back into the past and learn the history of the manor? 01:18:31.27 Jala & Dave Sure. 01:18:37.00 Jala & Dave Okay, so the cook explains that Kodumon Potti is a descendant of Atharva Vedic scholar named Chudalan Potti, who was a gifted demon helper, a Chathan by the goddess Varahi, because she was impressed with his devotion. Let's pause. 01:18:53.35 Jala & Dave And let's talk about what the hell a Chathan and the goddess Varahi before we move on. So a Kuttichathan or Chathan for short is a goblin. 01:19:03.28 Jala & Dave It's translated in Wikipedia as goblin. All of us hate that word as the name for this critter. 01:19:09.63 Jala & Dave But anyway, it is an entity, a supernatural entity, often depicted as a portly adolescent boy who terrorizes people for its own pleasure. In Kerala, Chathan is a deity that is worshipped. 01:19:22.68 Jala & Dave So, according to Tantric lore, Kuttichathan is a little spirit who can be conjured up to do your bidding. However, the point with all entities you conjure up is that you end up having a battle between master and servant. So, this right here, this story that's being here is the same thing that's echoing right now in our current timeline. 01:19:42.18 K Mm hmm. 01:19:42.16 Jala & Dave It is this power play between the master and servant that forms the crux, of course, of Bramayugam's story overall. So, the goddess Varahi is a goddess with a head of a boar. 01:19:52.90 Jala & Dave She and the other Matrikas or mother goddesses dance after a battle, drunk on the blood of demons they slew. Her origins vary from being an aspect of Durga, which is, you know, like the big war mother goddess type lady, to being the mother of death personified, either Varaha or possibly even Yama. 01:20:12.53 Jala & Dave And she is invoked in curses to protect land from invaders, new rulers and trespassers, which would explain why Potti would have invoked her as a ruler of an area. She's a night goddess, sometimes called the Goddess of Darkness, and prayers dedicated to her require her ah request her blessing or the destruction of enemies. So ah when this first Potti, not really the first Potti, but like the Potti relevant to the story, 01:20:41.38 Jala & Dave did this thing. he was ah proving his He was fasting to impress Varahi, calls Varahi. And Varahi was so impressed with his austerities that she granted him this Chathan. So I'll let Dave continue the story. 01:21:04.45 Jala & Dave ah His constant torture of the Chathan turned it vengeful and it went on to kill Chudalan Potti and his family, stealing their souls by having them gaze into its open mouth where they can see hell. So Potti, originally, he was given this the gift of the… um The helper. the Yes, the Chathan. And the Chathan was meant to like extend his power and protect his area, his mana. 01:21:32.84 K Mm hmm. 01:21:33.18 Jala & Dave And at that point, Pote was like, well, I don't want to give this up. This is really working for me. And so he basically like withheld the Chathan from like returning to its box and returned to the goddess. So he, he trapped it and he tortured it ah to keep it giving him power. 01:21:59.85 Jala & Dave ah Many sorcerers came to try and banish the Chathan, but they failed. Kodumon Potti, the last descendant, eventually defeated the Chathan and chained him in the mansion's attic. Right. And something to note too is that the Chathan, when it killed all of the prior Potti clan, did that whole thing where it opened it mouth it's its mouth and then It, you see hell inside of its mouth, which is an interesting image. 01:22:25.31 K and 01:22:27.76 Jala & Dave Um, but again, like a lot of, of ancient lore and folklore and stuff like that usually is full of really great boss images. 01:22:37.42 K but but It pulled the soul out of the body, and this this ah exposition um of the history here talking about these sorcerers, this is animated, and it looks really cool. 01:22:47.46 Jala & Dave Yeah. 01:22:50.13 Jala & Dave Yeah, it's a lot of fun and you can kind of, um if you want to see something Western that's similar would be Stephen King's It and the Deadlights inside of the mouth of Pennywise the Clown. 01:23:05.05 K Yes. 01:23:05.37 Jala & Dave It's filmed similarly. 01:23:08.83 K Yeah. um And setting up here that what we have at least set into motion is this kind of cycle of abuse of, you know, the power, complete power over somebody ah that is then reciprocated and then issued like threefold on ah other people below them. 01:23:33.76 K You know, showing just that just because somebody currently has power does not mean that they always deserved it or were good stewards of it. Right. 01:23:42.37 Jala & Dave Correct. And a lot, uh, well, not a lot, all of Vedic and, um, Hindu. 01:23:52.54 Jala & Dave Culture. Cause it's not really mythology specifically. 01:23:53.59 K Mm hmm. 01:23:56.42 Jala & Dave um is predicated on cycles. Everything is a cyclical nature and anything that your begetters ah struggle through is visited upon their children and their descendants and it just keeps rolling around. 01:24:16.93 K yeah 01:24:17.89 Jala & Dave Yep, and that is yet again another really important theme to this movie. So, um yeah, when the cook is telling Thevan all this, Thevan verifies that he has seen the Chathan in the attic, which he didn't really. 01:24:28.95 Jala & Dave He saw like ah some chains in a food bowl, but, you know, you know he gets it. he and He knows there's a thing up there. 01:24:35.36 K Now. 01:24:36.58 Jala & Dave So ah the cook tells Thevan that if he keeps wandering around at night, he will have to drink to dig a grave for Thevan too. 01:24:36.80 K Yeah. 01:24:44.24 Jala & Dave because after all Potti will find out that he's wandering around and didn't Potti also say they all went mad and were wandering around and then I killed them so you know you don't want to do that for various reasons at first you think it's because there's going to be a creepy crawly thing around the corner or whatever but turns out it's also because um Potti doesn't like restless leg syndrome 01:25:04.85 K i like This person with complete power over me is going to kill me. Yeah, absolutely. That's the real threat here. Yeah. 01:25:13.80 Jala & Dave Yeah, and one thing it has almost nothing to do with this particular instance, but um visually, so there's no, we mentioned that Thevan has to go out to use the restroom like outside. There's not like a. 01:25:31.47 Jala & Dave dedicated place for that. um There also isn't a dedicated, especially for the servants, a dedicated bathhouse or a place to wash yourself. So the underside of the manor is like partially flooded by and the nearby little lake. And this set piece they use multiple times where Thevan will go take his bath. And it's just like on the, um it looks like the underside of a dock. 01:26:02.29 Jala & Dave And you can see a little fish swimming in there. It's just very evocative because he has to go beneath everything to get clean. And then cleanliness is like very important in ritualistically in Hinduism. 01:26:17.69 K Yeah. 01:26:19.21 Jala & Dave Right. So directly opposed to what the cook just told him not to do to have on the sides, he's going to wander around at night anyway. So he ends up spying on Potti, who is smearing human ashes on himself and, you know, going through like a rite, which for all Thevan knows might be a Brahmin thing actually maybe. So ah he then sees the Yakshi who'd killed his friend in the beginning of the movie come to Potti to get intimate to and they start doing stuff and then Thevan runs away. So. 01:26:56.69 Jala & Dave So yeah, um that was an interesting scene um because using human ashes to smear all over yourself is kind of reminiscent of, again, kind of like the death god cultures and stuff where there's ah the worshipers that would hang out in the crematories and things like that. 01:27:12.76 Jala & Dave And so um while this is not like quite that at the same time, it's bringing some of that energy for sure. 01:27:21.37 K Yeah. you know, and also like the actually is not explained so like and she never comes back again, but showing that like Potti and this house is not just it's not like set apart from the hostile spirits of the, you know, wilderness around this, it is instead in leak with their, you know, 01:27:45.30 K they're aligned and that feels inherently dangerous and it feels like a dangerous revelation, right? 01:27:53.89 Jala & Dave Specifically, it's a ah the higher caste Brahmin consorting with a demon. 01:28:02.63 Jala & Dave and that that's Definitely not supposed to happen. Not only that, but that means that the area outside of this space where that that was um ostensibly the Yakshi's domain, um this is not protected from that. 01:28:17.81 K Mm hmm. 01:28:21.28 Jala & Dave like it's indivisible from that outside danger. 01:28:21.38 K Yeah. 01:28:26.05 Jala & Dave Yeah, this also shows, too, that the Yakshi is either in league with or a servant to this Brahmin Potti. 01:28:30.71 K Mm hmm. 01:28:34.56 Jala & Dave And so that also leads you to think, well, if these are the two times this Yakshi shows up, the first time was killing Thevan's friend. The second time was consorting with Potti. 01:28:46.98 Jala & Dave Well, I wonder who sent the Yakshi to go kill specifically Thevan's friend. It's fate. 01:28:53.78 Jala & Dave Fated. 01:28:55.47 Jala & Dave Yeah, absolutely. Definitely nothing weird and sketch here. So so yeah, creeped out. 01:28:59.87 K is this happening 01:29:02.07 Jala & Dave Thevan says he's going to leave and that the cook should too because the place is cursed and the cook totally ignores him and tells him to stop interrupting his work. And at this point, I'm sure the cook having dealt with this with all of the house help every time for how who knows how long, um definitely is like way over it. 01:29:19.44 Jala & Dave And he's been here 100 million times. And so he's just he's just done. And Thevan, meanwhile, packs some of his things and then Potti comes to his room and asks him where he is going. 01:29:24.80 K Mm-hmm. 01:29:32.13 Jala & Dave Isn't it? Is it at this point like that night when he's creeped out? Does he have a dream that evening, I think? 01:29:39.74 K It's around this point, it feels like, where the it's the ah the person in like monstrous ritualistic garb that is like crawling through the doorway at him. 01:29:40.73 Jala & Dave Yeah. 01:29:46.66 Jala & Dave Yes. 01:29:49.30 Jala & Dave Yes, and presumably it is to be the Chathan that he is imagining in his dreams, ah leaping at him, although it's not really a jump scare, but. 01:29:58.81 Jala & Dave ah So yeah, but ah so the cook is not paying any attention to him and Thevan packs some of his things. Potti comes into his room and asks where he thinks he's going. So Thevan says his mother is at home alone and you know talks, has this little like moment of monologue where he's like, she worked so hard and you know her hands are so worn from doing all of this hard work and she's the one who made this earring for me. and you know all these different things about like what his mother means to him. And again, that's also part and parcel of the culture as well. 01:30:33.13 Jala & Dave Yeah. And it wasn't that she made the she sacrificed all of her time to ah be able to afford yeah this like earring stud, which is very, yeah it's out of the reach of, of that caste. And it's a thing that he, you know, treasures because of not, not only it's precious, uh, 01:30:55.60 Jala & Dave physical value, but the fact that his mother sacrificed all of that to get him this thing that gives him extra status. 01:31:05.89 K No. And you know, the fact that he's being kept away, like, okay, yeah, all of that is very sweet. You know what you're saying? However, your place is not at your mother's side. Your allegiance is not to your mother. 01:31:18.03 K it the Lord supersedes this, right? 01:31:20.80 Jala & Dave Right. 01:31:21.42 K Like all of that, you can say it and sure, yeah, but the reality of this relationship is no, that's not a reason to leave. Remember you gambled, you lost your mind. 01:31:32.77 Jala & Dave Right, right. Well, he ends up saying to Thevan, OK, go ahead and leave. No one's going to stop you. But how will you go in all of this rain? And then it starts pouring. The monsoon has just begun on cue. 01:31:48.35 Jala & Dave on cue as if summoned by Potti himself. So as you might imagine, Devon is inconsolable and Potti tells him that the reigns could last years because when a prior house helper was with him, it reigned for three whole years and the dancer lost their memory and could no longer dance. 01:32:07.32 Jala & Dave And this is something I mentioned earlier, but I didn't mention that they lost their memory overall. They don't they could remember their own name, in fact. 01:32:12.63 K Yeah. 01:32:15.09 Jala & Dave Uh, so that dancer was eventually killed because he became a burden because he could not do his job. 01:32:22.49 K now Yeah, yeah, and just did just some light skin and marinking going on. 01:32:32.83 Jala & Dave So Potti says that they are in the Bramayugam, the Age of Madness, a millennium-long frenzy of violence, a worsened form of the Kali Yugam or the darkest final stage of the Earth's life cycle. 01:32:49.74 Jala & Dave So each of the ages are measured in tens of thousands of years, hundreds, thousands of years. They're very long, yeah um these cycles. And ah they are that, that very idea of everything needs to be destroyed to be ah reconstructed. So it's a, it's a perpetual rebirthing cycle for the universe. 01:33:19.84 Jala & Dave And it has to, it has to get worse before it gets better is basically what, what he's saying. He's like, everything's really messed up right now, but that implies that, Oh, it'll be better someday. So if you just keep doing your job, we'll get back to the better days when, you know, the rain stops. 01:33:38.91 K just be based on, uh, I literally just have the Wikipedia, um, the entry open for Kali Yuga. 01:33:45.02 Jala & Dave Mm-hmm. 01:33:45.57 K Um, the Kali Yuga began 5,126 years ago, or but accounting for most of, uh, recorded human history. 01:33:55.87 Jala & Dave Right. 01:33:56.14 K Like, Oh, we've always been in this. It's, but it'll, the better time will come. 01:34:00.31 Jala & Dave Right. Right. Krusty's coming, kids, to use a Simpsons reference just for you. 01:34:03.08 K Thank you. 01:34:05.06 Jala & Dave Look, it was better before, you know, just because we didn't have it written down didn't mean it didn't happen. 01:34:09.62 K Yep. 01:34:10.11 Jala & Dave Right, right. Well, and then too, he's saying that this is a worsened form of it, the final stage of the life cycle of the earth. And another quote from the movie is, God's Exodus marks the beginning of the era, and no matter how much you call on him, he will not answer. 01:34:27.72 Jala & Dave So, part of why he's super, you know, putty is super bitter. He's like, even if you call for God's help, and like you've been doing this whole time, it's not going to matter. 01:34:40.53 Jala & Dave Nothing's going to happen. 01:34:41.75 Jala & Dave No one's going to come and save you. 01:34:44.42 K Pote quote unquote was abandoned by his God to be abused by a lower master. 01:34:44.64 Jala & Dave And yeah, yeah specifically, I mean, he was tricked into doing something and then stuck there. And he was put there specifically for a reason, but no matter what he does, he's stuck in this. So why should anyone, you know, it's the whole like, look, if I'm having a bad time, why shouldn't everybody be having a bad time? 01:35:16.67 K Right. 01:35:17.81 Jala & Dave Yeah, and then the nature of the Chathan, because we haven't said it explicitly, but this is what's happening. ah The guy in front of you that's the creep master is the Chathan. So there, we said it, we said it. 01:35:29.08 Jala & Dave we you know Everybody knew that by now, but anyway. 01:35:31.70 K Yeah. 01:35:31.88 Jala & Dave um So there's definitely a lot of a lot of stuff going on with that. but um it It's interesting because Potti ends up telling Thevan that he's no longer required to sing because his presence has become unbearable. So at this point, he's like, you're just way too distracted by this other stuff that has nothing to do with me and what I want. um you know And Chathan, as I said a little bit earlier, they their whole point in purpose usually, like what they find to be fun is 01:36:07.04 Jala & Dave ah scaring the crap out of people and torturing people like psychologically. So, ah what all he's been doing to Thevan is specifically because that's what Chathan do. So, you know, like not to this scale, usually they're kind of like, oh, that's scamp. I mean, like there's cartoons and stuff of Chathan where they're just like ah funny and harmless kind of impish critters. 01:36:31.94 K They're gremlins. 01:36:33.57 Jala & Dave Yeah, yeah, kind of like that, kind of like that. 01:36:36.54 Jala & Dave So yeah, but the point here is that when Potti tells Thevan that you don't need to sing anymore because I don't like you anymore. 01:36:46.88 Jala & Dave Well, if you're not doing your job, then you are a burden. And if you're a burden and you're going to go mad, then you're going to forget stuff and then I'm going to kill you. Like, you know, he's already started the cycle. 01:36:57.99 Jala & Dave Like this is the Kali Yuga of Thevan himself at this point. You know, he is entering this state. 01:37:05.55 Jala & Dave So ah in the night, the cook goes to him and wordlessly summons him and he takes him to the granary to drink. Thevan tells the cook about his home and what it would be like there right now. You know, he's reminiscing about home and what it's like and yeah all this familiar scenery and just kind of like waxing poetic and wistful and rose tinted glasses, all of that stuff. 01:37:29.41 Jala & Dave And he only has his mother who worked hard her whole life. And you this is this is where he says, you know, she worked to give me this earring. And the cook says that he has no family and is alone and when offered liquor and told, well, if you drink this, you'll forget. 01:37:47.54 Jala & Dave The cook says, no, I don't drink. I'm not going to go down that path, actually. So this is a first clue that this cook is a Brahmin because he's not drinking. 01:38:00.74 Jala & Dave That's a thing everybody else does. Potti, meanwhile, drinks liquor and does what he wants, not observing any of the rules. So this is the part with the dream. So Kole, how about you tell us about that? 01:38:14.78 K Yeah, I think i so I summed it up pretty well before, but like he's, ah you know, just, uh, uh, Tavon's in his room. 01:38:16.05 Jala & Dave Yeah. 01:38:19.94 K Um, and you know, here's the, here's the chains and here's the noise. And then this figure appears in the doorframe. I didn't pause this to get a real good sense. 01:38:33.74 K It's not the monster that we see later. It is a person in kind of like gigantic, almost like a headdress kind of thing with false eyes kind of looking. 01:38:43.02 Jala & Dave Yes. 01:38:46.50 K And he's like just kind of crawling or stooped over and then crosses through and then leaps toward him. um And, you know, I think that this is trying to communicate. Oh, yeah, that that that's the Chathan. 01:38:58.05 K It has not been explicitly said that there's been a switcheroo that took place, um you know, so far. So the Thevan doesn't know that. I also could see this as being like, oh, that's what the um that's what the ah the the the person who is upstairs in the attic, the actual Potti, you know, it is going around dressed as. 01:39:20.04 Jala & Dave So when I saw that part, uh, a lot of the tales and the mythology and the culture are transmitted through plays. 01:39:20.25 K Yeah. 01:39:33.57 Jala & Dave They just, they do a lot of plays and this would have been the representation, um, that he saw like at court. 01:39:35.91 K Hmm. Okay. 01:39:45.55 Jala & Dave So the, the, you're not going to see, you're going to see like maybe shadow puppets and things like that. Like, so it's not like the Indonesian ones, but there's people dressed in makeup and dressed in things and they are representational of the gods or of demons. 01:40:02.74 Jala & Dave And so anytime that you would be thinking of them, that's what you're going to get. Like first off is like this ornate costumes. 01:40:11.75 Jala & Dave You know, they're meant to evoke that fear, but he would have a one-to-one association of, this is Chathan looks like this, that that's the mask that ah you know a person performing the role of Chathan would have. 01:40:19.41 K Yes. 01:40:23.83 K Yeah. This, this is how it's always been represented to me. So this is how I conceive of it. 01:40:28.29 Jala & Dave Right, right. So tell us about what happens the next day. 01:40:37.21 K So he wakes up and he goes to find the cook in the kitchen, but he's not there. And he goes looking around and finds him outside digging a grave in the backyard. And he jumps to what is a pretty logical conclusion. 01:40:50.11 K You know, ah that's that grave is for me. So I've got to I've got to go. I've got to skip. ah But he can't, like his physical constitution starts breaking down as he ah tries to, like specifically he passes through the gate. 01:41:05.53 K and then starts like um breaking down as he's just a little ways down the road, um and is coughing, writhing in pain, and ultimately coughing up way too much blood, um and like is clawing at his head before he ah falls over, and his beard goes gray. like The bet of the time was literal. 01:41:33.14 Jala & Dave Yeah. So, um, this part, when I, when I watched this, I took it to mean that specific thing where once he passed the outside of the manner, like that area that's under the influence of the Chathan, uh, all of the time that he was betting, like piled back onto him. 01:42:00.95 K Yeah. 01:42:01.39 Jala & Dave So he wasn't there for just a few days or a month. It's years already because he's, his beard grows. It's gray. Like that's not something you get in like, Oh, it's been a month. 01:42:12.13 Jala & Dave You know, your beard went gray. 01:42:14.43 K Yeah. 01:42:14.53 Jala & Dave Um, I mean, maybe from the stress, but, uh, yeah. So when he, that coupled with maybe the food. 01:42:25.71 Jala & Dave So, and that's, that's the thing that's common in a lot of mythologies where if you, you go down to hell and you, you eat the pomegranate, like you're stuck there. 01:42:33.75 K Yes. 01:42:33.98 Jala & Dave Like that you've eaten the food of the dead, you've eaten the food of his manner. Um, that has like changed your, your bodily constitution to have to rely on that. 01:42:46.15 K Yeah. 01:42:48.53 Jala & Dave Yeah. So continue. Cool. 01:42:51.03 K Yeah, just so fully trapped, like it he ends up having to crawl back like on his belly, you know, toward the house and Potti scolds up, kind of lays in, you know, saying like, you can't leave even if you're going to ask me to. 01:43:05.41 K And but Potti he wants the begging. He wants to lower it over here. It's like, no, no, just bet beg me more sincerely. You know, just keep a keep on asking. Keep on asking to leave. 01:43:16.18 K And Dave on fully under the But under the thrall, you know, it does this. and But he says, no, no, I don't want to. Then starts cackling and the and the and the scene shifts. 01:43:26.90 Jala & Dave Yeah. I know I love it where he's like you see Thevan groveling at the feet of Potti who is standing there at the front of the house and he's very serious looking, very earnest and begging and desperate and in pain. 01:43:43.19 K Mm hmm. 01:43:44.57 Jala & Dave And then you see the camera like go up to Potti's face, which is at first impassive. And then this little smile cracks in the corner of his mouth and then his whole face just breaks open into this smirk, this wicked smirk. And then he says with like this great relish, you know, request denied, you know. 01:44:06.75 Jala & Dave and laughs his head off and it's just, you know, uh, definitely like if you didn't already feel all the different moments of power plays, this one is just like, it they, they ramp it up as the movie keeps going. 01:44:21.39 K It is, it is the pure glee at someone and their worst misery asking sincerely and saying, no, you know, just maybe if you debase yourself more, I'll say yes. 01:44:31.72 K And then again, you know, it was never going to win the diet roll. Right. 01:44:35.94 Jala & Dave Absolutely. He is the pawn. Potti rolls the dice. 01:46:27.70 Jala & Dave So the rain stopped for the time being, and then Thevan is awakened by the cook who splashes him with water. The cool days ah are just passing through the gateway. 01:47:01.31 Jala & Dave The cook says, just passing through the gateway, makes the memories fade over time. He then asks Thevan to a series of different, just very simple, simple questions. And Thevan doesn't remember any of the answers. So ah when did he come here? How long has it been? What's your name? What's your mom's name? 01:47:21.29 Jala & Dave and he doesn't know. And so Thevan starts getting scared, as you might imagine, because he this is a sudden realization to him that he just doesn't know. And the cook takes him to the attic where there is a body lying under a sheet, and the cook tells Thevan that the body is that of the real Kodumon Potti, who was trapped just like they are, and over time forgot who he was and what his name was. 01:47:44.02 Jala & Dave So here's the official reveal that the guy downstairs that is creepy with the jacked up grill is Chathan. And we've got real putty in the attic now dead. So, ah yes, it relishes in power. It enslaves anyone who it comes across. It created a realm of control around itself where it is both master and prisoner. So both the cook and Thevan are also trapped in this realm together with them. 01:48:11.34 Jala & Dave So ah that grave that was dug earlier was for the real putty. 01:48:11.38 K yeah Hm hm hm hm. 01:48:15.85 Jala & Dave And so that's where the cook buries this corpse. So ah while watching the cook swim, Thevan asks what they did to deserve this. And the cook says those in power take pleasure in tormenting those weaker than themselves. 01:48:29.30 Jala & Dave It's not due to wrongdoing on their parts. They can just be living their life, but because they are not the people in power, they are the ones who end up getting the flack. 01:48:41.20 Jala & Dave So ah this is important because this is one of the big themes of this entire movie, you know ah being all about power plays and caste and jobs and all of this other mess and you know societal demands, hierarchy, patriarchy. 01:48:58.51 K it was literally just a roll of the dice, you know? Like, yeah, no, just we are at their we are at their power in the world as it is constituted. You can try to blame it on yourself or try and work it into working into deeds or some kind of morality, but in reality, it is just this is this is what someone with power does. 01:49:19.19 Jala & Dave Right. So the cook tells Thevan the only way that they can escape the manna is by defeating the Chathan, extinguishing an ever burning lamp located in a secret chamber in the granary and then trapping the Chathan in the chest Varahi, presented it to the first putti in. So ah the chest that the goddess presented this critter in is needed to trap it to seal it away, kind of like a, you know, Pandora's box kind of situation. 01:49:48.32 K Yeah. 01:49:48.93 Jala & Dave And there's an ever burning lamp, eternal lamp in the greenery, which feels very video gaming. But you know it's also very folklore, but you know. 01:49:55.62 K ah yeah this Yeah, just the whole thing is like, all right, so it's almost like describing like the order of operations for doing like an MMO raid. 01:50:05.90 Jala & Dave Right. 01:50:06.17 K And it's like, okay, you know, we need the DPS over here taking down the taking down taking down this flame, which is keeping this guy invulnerable. And then we need to push him in. 01:50:16.63 K It's very video gaming. 01:50:18.15 Jala & Dave Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 01:50:18.21 K Yeah. 01:50:19.94 Jala & Dave So ah it's also kind of covered at this point that the Chathan's goal is to gather power over time and eventually gain immortality because the Chathan, in this version, the Chathan is not a deity. 01:50:31.09 Jala & Dave Remember, in other parts of India, Chathan is a deity, but in this version, he wants to become one and is not. so in my head canon, in my head canon, that means that this Chathan ended up becoming an immortal and then was worshipped in Kerala. 01:50:49.89 Jala & Dave So anyway, ah the two discuss the key, trying to figure out where the key to this room is. And they come to the conclusion that it has to be on Potti himself. 01:50:59.97 K The one place that the cook couldn't search. 01:51:00.69 Jala & Dave So Yeah, the one place the cook could not find it because he's been looking all over. So Thevan ends up playing with the pakida dice and in he's um at this point setting a trap for the Chathan. 01:51:15.65 Jala & Dave So he is playing with the pakida dice and this rouses Potti and Thevan offers to play against Potti and Potti is not at all interested because Thevan doesn't have anything else to wager. 01:51:27.02 Jala & Dave He's already given everything. 01:51:28.86 K yeah 01:51:28.89 Jala & Dave Thevan says he will wager a key And Potti checks his waist and asks Thevan how he knew about that. And then Thevan, of course, says Potti, you know, but t Thevan says that Potti holds the key to his freedom and wants to try one more time to win his freedom back. 01:51:46.03 Jala & Dave Potee declines. that He just use words you know uses wordplay at this point to just kind of deflect and be like, I'm so lowly, I definitely didn't know that you had a key to a secret ever-burning lamp chamber where I can get the dongle and do the thing. 01:52:02.15 K Yeah. And it's like, no, I was speaking in metaphors just like you were talking about in metaphors, you know, wagering my time, right? 01:52:07.45 Jala & Dave Yup. 01:52:08.29 K You know, you were talking about servitude, but you framed it as this metaphysical thing. Well, here's my, my metaphorical key, you know, which is, you know, very intentional to get Potti to like grasp on his body where the key would be, you know, like reaches to his waist. 01:52:25.84 Jala & Dave Well, it should also be said that Potti is wearing a dhoti, which is, you know, like a type of wrap around his lower half, ah but he doesn't have a shirt on. 01:52:36.33 Jala & Dave So there's only so many places that that key could be. 01:52:39.28 K Right. 01:52:40.53 Jala & Dave but So ah meanwhile ah a tree falls on the roof and if it happens to break any further it's going to close off the entrance to the chamber with the eternal lamp and thus foil the plot to escape of course because ah you know there's all different kinds of stuff the storms and stuff continue. 01:52:57.88 Jala & Dave So the two protagonists decide that they will have to get the key that evening because they are running out of time. ah That tree is on top of the house. The house is dilapidated, but it's going to crumble all the way fully if that tree leans in any further. 01:53:13.49 Jala & Dave When the cook is preparing a feast for Potti, Potti comes into the kitchen and grabs the cook by the throat and he asks, who are you to have authority to give the singer liquor and you know threatens the cook saying, you know, further disruption will not be tolerated. And he tells the cook to dig a hole for Thevan and leaves. 01:53:34.07 K Now, this is this is what the cook wanted. 01:53:37.05 Jala & Dave Yeah, absolutely. 01:53:39.25 Jala & Dave So how about you tell us about that evening, Kole? 01:53:42.78 K Yeah. ah So that evening, Potti's in his chamber, just kind of lounging, you know, ah and Thevan's there, you know, finishes up a song, and Thevan, you know, says, can I can I see your true form? And just coming out and saying it, right? Coming out and asking it. ah And Potti's like, no, it's not time yet. 01:54:00.32 K Like, and we're not even pretending anymore, right? Everybody knows what's going on. 01:54:02.84 Jala & Dave Nope. Right. 01:54:04.99 K Potti says, you know, everything is predetermined. Nothing can change the course that any of us are on. And he tells Tavon, you know, go and bring me more liquor, ah you know, down from the granary. 01:54:16.81 K And he and goes and finds the cook to get the liquor, but the cook isn't around. ah But he does find a knife and brings it back to the chamber. and Potti is sleeping. It appears to be a good opportunity, and he goes to search the body for the key, but doesn't find it. And Potti wakes up, and Thevan startles, just kind of falls backwards, and is he's been caught. Like, this is going to escalate the conflict. Potti's kind of looming over him, ah and Thevan pulls out the knife, trying to defend himself, but quickly gets overpowered. It is not just that 01:54:53.83 K Potti is physically imposing. He is this otherworldly being, right? And he can force choke people and it does so with abandon to the point where he opens up his mouth and starts showing Thevan the deadlights. 01:55:07.17 K And Thevan doesn't relinquish his soul. 01:55:07.53 Jala & Dave Yep. 01:55:10.27 K He looks into it, but is, you know, the whole thing is interrupted. There's a there's a sound. We realize, oh, the cook stole the key. when he was being choked out. 01:55:21.93 K um And the cook is down in the room with the eternal flame. And this is great. I love this because as the as the cook blows out the flame, every candle in the house goes out, every lamp. 01:55:33.76 Jala & Dave Right. 01:55:35.26 K Yeah. And this weakens the Chathan, the weakens Potti, quote unquote. 01:55:39.90 Jala & Dave Yep, absolutely. 01:55:40.83 K Yeah. 01:55:41.44 Jala & Dave So, um, Dave, how about you tell us a little bit about that creepy mouth scene? Yeah, it's the, the, the, the VFX on this are really good. 01:55:52.27 Jala & Dave So when putty opens is it opens like maybe a little. brush man it's kind Yeah, it's a little too wide, but it's this brilliant blazing light because everything of course is in black and white, but there's just this fantastic like too bright light coming out and you have Thevan They don't do any kind of, oh, you see his soul being sucked out like Mortal Kombat. Um, it's more just that whatever that possibility, whatever that realm is beyond, you shouldn't see that and still be alive. Like that's something you're supposed to see if you're dead and you did something bad. Um, and you can feel like there's just this tension like leaking out and you're going this. 01:56:44.48 Jala & Dave This has ended all, this is going all wrong. And because we don't have any um idea that the cooks set this other plan up, like they, they, they do a good like flashback of realization on that. 01:56:55.23 K Mm-hmm. and 01:56:59.61 Jala & Dave But as far as the audience is concerned, you know, we're, we're firmly in Thevan's like point of view for this movie for the most part. 01:57:07.89 K yeah 01:57:08.65 Jala & Dave Right. And that's also really important because at the moment that Thevan's soul was going to be taken from him, that's when the eternal flame is put out and everything else goes out. And then Potti's mouth also goes out. The Chathan no longer has his mouth power. 01:57:28.28 Jala & Dave So, no more mouthfeel for you. So, so yeah. Chathan then goes, or not Chathan, Thevan goes to the chamber and when he is in there, the cook comes behind him and tells him about the box. 01:57:42.63 Jala & Dave ah The sinker pulls the knife on the cook, telling him that he's a traitor for using Thevan as bait. 01:57:42.79 K Yeah. 01:57:48.52 Jala & Dave But the cook says there isn't time for a fight because they have to seal the Chathan away before they can leave. If they don't trap him in the box, he will just come after them and kill them. 01:57:58.36 Jala & Dave So, um, of course you have to fool your friends to fool your enemies. If Thevan knew this was a plan, he wouldn't have tried that. And then, you know, like, but yes, it wouldn't have endangered him, but also they probably wouldn't have gotten away with it either. 01:58:12.55 Jala & Dave Those dang kids. 01:58:13.06 K And as the cooks true identity and goals come to line, I love this that once the, once the top is taken out the struggle between them and yeah, we'll see it there. 01:58:13.77 Jala & Dave Yeah. 01:58:26.96 K But the, the, the cook revealing to be more being revealed to be more treacherous. Uh, I think it's super important here. 01:58:32.94 Jala & Dave Absolutely. So they head down to fight the Chathan and the cook warns the singer not to heat or to hear, to heed any of the words that come from the Chathan because it will try to deceive them and attack them psychologically. So when they come up against the demon, and this is, this is interesting too, because ah the cook is telling him, Oh, don't, don't pay attention to anything he says, because they're going to try to deceive you and attack you psychologically. Isn't that what all the people in the power structure are doing to all the people in the lower parts of the freaking anyway? 01:59:03.26 K Yeah. 01:59:04.00 Jala & Dave Not only that, but he's been a psychological threat this entire time and then ah and then kind of graduates to this physical threat where he's like, you can't stand up against him. 01:59:14.83 Jala & Dave ah And then that is kind of tossed on its head because his power the Chathan's power is restricted or it's, you know, it's diminished. So his physical ability is like kind of the only threat. Um, because there's this, the psychological angle is, it's like hidden. It's, it's weird. He's like, Oh, don't worry about, or, or, be wary of that. Don't worry about his physical stuff. And it's like, no, he's definitely can just kill you with his hands. 01:59:47.43 K Yeah. 01:59:50.17 Jala & Dave And it's also a thing where the shot done is in this like weakened state now. So it's also enraged because that eternal lamp or whatever was its way of having a form of immortality. And that was just taken away from him. 02:00:07.39 Jala & Dave by these two people. So he is on ah like an equivalent of a murderous rampage. And that's why even though they have the box, he still wants to go and kill them because he's so pissed. 02:00:17.20 K yeah 02:00:18.62 Jala & Dave So ah when they come up against the demon, the cook informs him ah that he is the ah illegitimate son of the real Brahmin, the real Potti. So he is in the line of the Potti clan. 02:00:30.40 Jala & Dave And so here comes to light, like once he starts behaving in his station as a Brahmin and is no longer behaving as the same caste as Theban, that's when all the conflicts between the two start. 02:00:37.26 K Yeah. Yes. 02:00:41.96 Jala & Dave because he's no now there's a power differential at play. 02:00:44.34 K Mhm. 02:00:45.71 Jala & Dave So ah the cook is there to capture the Chathan for vengeance for his family. So ah this too is, you know, ah the Chathan is trying to get vengeance for itself. And then now here is this cook who is now trying to get vengeance for his family. 02:01:01.47 Jala & Dave It's this whole cyclical thing going on again. I mean, technically the Chathan didn't do anything wrong. He was tortured and he just got his revenge and he's just been chilling. Yeah, all the torture and killing of all these other people don't mean anything. that You heard it here first, folks. I'm a chat down apologist. 02:01:23.58 K I love that the chat on at this point is trying to goad the conflict between the two of them. And, you know, telling Thevan, like, you know, don't let him get this. 02:01:36.26 K Don't let him get the power. Don't let him get the ring here because he's just going to kill you. Like once he gets it, he's going to treat you just as badly as I did. There's no reason to help him. 02:01:45.75 Jala & Dave Well, the thing is that he's not wrong. He's not wrong. 02:01:48.19 K Yeah, yeah, no. Yeah. 02:01:51.89 Jala & Dave Yeah, so Thevan ends up stabbing the Chathan in the hand and slices his belly and the Chathan picks him up and hurls him across the chamber and he blacks out as the cook faces off against the Chathan. And then when Thevan awakens, he's in a chamber with the extinguished lamp and he picks up a fallen torch and is terrified at the sound of the Chathan's laughter. And he's walking down a corridor and he sees the remains of a person who died there and he keeps hearing this laughter. 02:02:18.14 Jala & Dave then it cuts to the cook. Meanwhile, who is quietly walking down a different chamber because now we're in like the mind palace. We're off in the mind palace. 02:02:24.99 K Yeah. 02:02:25.76 Jala & Dave I don't know where we're at. We're somewhere, some non-Euclidean space again. 02:02:29.34 K Yeah, we've been whisked into a realm. 02:02:29.52 Jala & Dave um Right, right. And so ah he's walking down another chamber, the structure starts to rotate, and he's unable to progress and is falling as the chamber continues to spin over and over again. 02:02:43.57 Jala & Dave So ah you could relate this to the spinning of spiraling down the drain or spiraling into the despair or whatever kinds of things you want to relate that to. 02:02:48.30 K you 02:02:53.63 K It's also just such a good visual trick, you know, like just the rotating hallway and then whether or not the camera is locked to it. And is there just a perception of just like gravity changing and the way that the flames go? 02:03:07.91 K In addition to the room that Thevan is in getting smaller and smaller, we're like fully in like Michel Gondry music video territory here. ah We got some virtual insanity going on. 02:03:19.58 Jala & Dave It is. There's just no treadmill and a big hat. 02:03:22.18 K Yes, yeah. um But it is so good just to show like the like the chaos that things are crumbling into as the chaton gets ah more desperate, but also just the complete control that he has had over the environment the entire time. 02:03:38.87 Jala & Dave ah Right, because when we cut back to Thevan after you see the cook tumbling around like he's in a washing or drying dryer or something, ah then he's getting in the shrinking room until he's in this basically a little weebly kind of space. And then he's whimpering and crying and curled up like he has been the entire movie long because that's his station. That's his place is to be, you know, like the slave to everyone else. and always at the whim of somebody's power so then he as the torch goes out he's just crying in the darkness and then the cook ends up you know it switches back to the cook the cook is managing to calm himself down realizing that it's in his head and he finds a knife which he uses to cut himself and spread his blood 02:04:21.87 Jala & Dave um as he chants to himself quietly. So ah this manages to kind of like bring him out of where he is, because at this point he's remembering. 02:04:33.32 Jala & Dave Wait, wait, wait. Remember your training. You are a Brahmin, you know, kind of thing. And ah kind of summons that energy within himself. Thevan, I suppose, is just desperate as all people who are the trodden upon peasants are. 02:04:46.95 Jala & Dave And so he manages to use the burnt out torch to break a hole in the wall and escape his predicament. 02:04:47.44 K Yeah. 02:04:52.98 Jala & Dave and so the cook turns at this point finds the Chathan sitting behind him a young version of Potti appears before him meaning there's no fucked up teeth finally we get to see the real nice teeth and you go oh he's actually got a nice grill cool uh you see yeah 02:05:02.48 K Yeah, yeah. 02:05:07.37 K yeah Did trying to do a trick like it's me I'm your ancestor be loyal to me, right? 02:05:13.94 Jala & Dave Right. 02:05:14.03 K Yeah 02:05:14.79 Jala & Dave Begging for forgiveness, no less. And an embrace. And of course, the cook is like, ah no, I'm not going to fall for your tricks. And Thevan then shows up and the cook asks him to get the box. 02:05:25.80 Jala & Dave And ah the demon starts to speak, lying to try to convince the singer to betray the cook. And while this is distracting the cook, the demon ends up attacking him at this point. 02:05:34.81 K yeah 02:05:35.37 Jala & Dave So Thevan then stabs the Chathan in the neck and the cook takes the ring from this demon. So this ring is like a ring of power. 02:05:44.39 K Yeah. And we're going to get an appearance from Gollum here. 02:05:48.28 K It's super like super, super clear what they're doing. 02:05:54.09 Jala & Dave So ah the Chathan warns him that the power will corrupt him and the cook sets the Chathan on fire and then the Chathan wanders away until it falls and dies, burning to death off there in another room to the side. 02:06:07.90 Jala & Dave And then we get the true form of the Chathan emerging from the corpse. So Dave, you want to talk about that? Yeah, it's my favorite part of the movie. Um, and the score that kicks in here is this horrendous. Like ah I would say it's not similar to Godzilla, but the, the, just the dread you get with, Oh no, Godzilla's he's, he's a common. That's what's happening here. 02:06:35.23 Jala & Dave And also there's like this embryonic sac around it when it's kind of being like birthed out of this corpse. So again, more sick cycles, cyclical stuff going on here. 02:06:46.20 Jala & Dave Death into rebirth and the weird embryonic pustule like burst and a little gooby man. ah do upside down Yes. Is upside down and he pops out and you jacket the boxes and then like scurries off because he's a little, just a little guy. And he's a little golem with, with some funky hair. 02:07:12.51 K He go, he's, he's a mucusy little golem and he goes and scurries under the stairs. 02:07:17.61 Jala & Dave Yeah, yeah, but kind of like how you would have a bug if you turn on the light at night, you know, like to the first dark place it can find it just kind of goes away. 02:07:22.83 K Yeah. 02:07:27.28 Jala & Dave And so I like a couple of things here. So when you first see it bursting out, ah you see it upside down and then it just kind of like rotates itself in this this way that thing, you know, normal creatures don't rotate. 02:07:40.62 K it It, it, it almost looks like, like it's, it's like, kind of like starts crab walking. And then it appears I've made, maybe just through some really good choreography. It appears that the, that that the, um, uh, his, his joints work backwards to get him upright. 02:07:53.95 Jala & Dave Yeah. Yeah. 02:07:55.33 K Yeah. 02:07:56.06 Jala & Dave Yeah. So ah then at that point, because now he has this ring of power which belonged to Potti, and that's the way that the Potti controlled the Chathan for so long. 02:08:09.27 Jala & Dave ah So because the cook has this ring which controls the Chathan, he calls to the Chathan and says, you're mine now because I have this ring and I have the power. 02:08:18.61 Jala & Dave And so he's automatically enslaving another creature the moment he gets his Brahmin heritage. Right. 02:08:25.83 K Mm hmm. 02:08:25.87 Jala & Dave And so as a rightful heir to the ring, he's attempting to put it on, which would legitimize his ownership over the Chathan, but is stopped by Thevan, who believes that the ring's power is going to corrupt him, Lord of the Ring style. 02:08:38.19 Jala & Dave I like this line that he says, he says, whoever wields power will become corrupt and people like me are hurt. 02:08:46.10 K Yeah. It's and something that becomes clear in class struggle. ah You know, it just, you end up with just somebody who ah criticizes power and is against it, not because they believe the structure is unjust. They disagree with who's at the top. 02:09:04.56 K And when they get up there, the machinery that and ostensibly they could have been allied with somebody to bring down, they want to take control of it ah in order to ah and you know and in order to revisit the oppression onto on onto others. um Yeah, and just the class struggle thing here could not be any clearer. 02:09:26.32 Jala & Dave Well, and it's that idea of being owed something. So the cook specifically is like, uh, the, the Potti line, um, is that's the stronger of my blood. You know, my, my mother was a lower caste and that doesn't matter because the, the, my father, um, Potti, that's all I need to do to hang onto this Brahman status. 02:09:57.54 K He's doing like ah like bloodline lineage, like ah and like supremacy math on this. 02:10:06.04 Jala & Dave Yeah. Yeah. It's not a good look, my dude. 02:10:09.88 K Yeah. 02:10:11.70 Jala & Dave Right. Right. And so like this whole time, the rest of the movie, like the cook is either like a neutral figure or semi antagonistic, but not too, too much. And then he's kind of a chummy figure and he's the most variable of all the characters in this entire movie, because now he's going like full, full bad, you know? 02:10:29.69 K Yeah. 02:10:29.89 Jala & Dave Um, so then Thevan and the cook start having a fight while the fire is destroying the mana, causing it to collapse over them as the Chathan is just watching the Chathan's like, I'm just going to chill over here and let y'all duke it out over there. 02:10:43.75 Jala & Dave Have fun with that. 02:10:44.35 K Yeah. 02:10:45.31 Jala & Dave I'm just a little guy. 02:10:45.39 K I'm just going to be a weird glistening. 02:10:47.17 Jala & Dave I'm very small. like I can't physically, I had my, my power suit on and now you ruined it. 02:10:53.74 K Yeah. 02:10:54.55 Jala & Dave So now I'm just this little, little alien guy. 02:10:56.56 K yeah And I'm just going to wait over here to reassert myself as the chaos goes on around, as the you know the the order collapses. 02:11:02.86 Jala & Dave Right. Well, of course, because one of them will win. And that means that whoever has won will be like injured from the fight. And then that makes it more advantageous for the Chathan. So because this fight, when they are having their fight, we're talking like they're picking up a rock and smashing each other in the head. They're picking up a knife and just just stabbing the shit out of each other. Like it's desperate. They're falling all over the place and screaming. 02:11:32.72 Jala & Dave Neither of these men are Kshatriya, the warrior class. They don't have like official training for this. So this is just like, I don't want to die. I have a thing and I'm trying to stop you from killing me. 02:11:44.48 K Yeah, it's a, they're, they're, they're magic. harp All they can do is flail. 02:11:48.03 Jala & Dave right so after that you see the man ah you know like the mana like the the everything starts crumbling and everything then we switch scenes and we see Thevan walking away from the ruins of the mana but he is attacked by the cook and during that struggle the cook realizes Oh, shit. 02:12:07.00 Jala & Dave Oh, shit. He realizes that this is not the real Thevan, but this Chathan in disguise. And how does he know this? Because Thevan no longer is simpering and whimpering and worried and this, that and the other. 02:12:19.93 Jala & Dave Also, I think the earring is either not present or it's on the wrong ear. I think it's on the wrong ear. 02:12:24.39 K It's on it's on the wrong ear. They make a very they they make a point and it kind of always showing which which ear that is in and even you know and the coke even you know calls out saying don't you usually wear that on the other on the other ear and T1 doesn't have an answer for that he just smiles. 02:12:26.60 Jala & Dave Yeah. 02:12:31.85 Jala & Dave Mm hmm. 02:12:41.35 Jala & Dave Yeah, yeah. So ah we end up seeing a shot of Thevan in the rubble and everything. And he presumably died in the collapse of the mana. So terrified, the cook ends up running away into the forest because he's like, oh, shit, this is actually the Chathan. So the Chathan right before they had their big tussle when he was in his little under the stairs form, 02:13:07.18 Jala & Dave ah He tells specifically to the cook, don't open that box. that I'll bring you know the ring ah will corrupt you, but if you open that box, that'll bring thunder down upon you. like Don't do it. like That's the prophecy. 02:13:22.90 K yeah 02:13:24.33 Jala & Dave Yeah, so here's the cook. He's running away. He's like, oh, shit, got to get away. And we're like, OK, saddling in, waiting for the next part where the Chathan is presumably going to hunt him down or something. Right. But no, he ends up going and getting into a river. He's trying to cross that in a panic. And then you just see some forms in the front that are just, um you know, just kind of blurry or whatever. 02:13:47.99 Jala & Dave And they're just kind of put into the frame as you see the cook trying to wade across. And then you find out they're Portuguese people. 02:13:56.89 K Yeah. 02:13:57.46 Jala & Dave So before that, we're given so like this is where it shifts because the entire movie we've been doing Thevan's point of view, but now we're we are the cook. 02:14:08.12 Jala & Dave And we don't see what he's facing, but we know he just ran away from what to him as a monster. And then he sees pale skin beasts coming at him from the other side of the river, from the forest. 02:14:22.48 Jala & Dave And he just has a rock. That's what he's got. And he's going to go at them. You know, what else does he have to lose? 02:14:28.64 Jala & Dave Right. And then the Portuguese are like, who's that? 02:14:29.02 K And he clutches his chest and he says thunder. 02:14:31.61 Jala & Dave And then just a madman shoot him and they shoot him dead in the river. And he just kind of floats down the river from there. 02:14:43.17 Jala & Dave Thunder. Yeah. Yep. Yep. So that's the detail that that Dave was pulling back in there. So, yeah, ah they end up just doing that, killing him. He dies because of the quote unquote thunder and, you know, goes down the river and the Portuguese are crossing the river, marching towards the mana. And meanwhile, the Chathan is in Thevan's body and he's seen leaving the area, wearing the ring ah and he's just going along the riverbank. 02:15:12.77 K Mm-hmm Yeah No 02:15:14.53 Jala & Dave Yeah, his his area, he doesn't um the Eternal Flame, while it was his source of gathering power, bound him to that spot. ah Probably because the line of the putti enslaved him to that area, but with the last of the putti dead, like he's free to just do whatever the hell he wants. 02:15:39.36 Jala & Dave And now that he's that, um, the thing is now that he's lower caste, he's more unnoticeable. 02:15:49.12 Jala & Dave Like he can just sneak around now and have more access to things. 02:15:54.40 Jala & Dave um, ostensibly, because as a Brahmin, he's kind of stuck in that role. Uh, and then here we have that cyclical age of, oh, uh, the caste system, while we see its failings, isn't much different than, oh, a, a stronger power has come to the land and is going to just revisit all of these terrible things, just top down. 02:16:22.41 K Yeah. 02:16:23.10 Jala & Dave It was the colonizers all along. 02:16:23.21 K the I think I texted you. 02:16:24.86 Jala & Dave Sorry. Go ahead, Kole. 02:16:27.57 K it was I knew it. I knew it was the Portuguese. 02:16:34.68 Jala & Dave Yeah. So like when we watched this in the theater, ah when I got to this part and I'm like left field, but it makes total sense because of the timeframe and you know the history of India and how many different people you know just like treated it like India is its own. 02:16:42.24 K Yeah. 02:16:51.62 Jala & Dave And so here again, here's like world powers coming to India and then doing to India. you know, the same kinds of things that the Brahmin do to the lower caste. And so, you know, it is perpetuated. 02:17:03.39 Jala & Dave So the message to me is that this is just all of this crap is just being perpetuated in a different form via just colonizing and, you know, just ah world politics. 02:17:12.96 K Yeah. 02:17:14.95 Jala & Dave It's the same thing. 02:17:16.59 K Now, yeah as long as there is any kind of hierarchy, whether it's colonizers coming through, whether it is you know endemic to the land and you know just the people there just kind of claiming their birthright and trying to naturalize the structure, it is going to keep enacting itself even in the face of history marching on, the face is changing. you know Regardless, there will always, yeah unless there is something Supernatural unless there is something just kind of completely to take it down. It is just going to keep on you know, reinforcing itself 02:17:53.67 Jala & Dave Right, right. We need, uh, another Indian movie, uh, Kalki, I think it's 2898. Uh, maybe I have the year wrong there, AD, uh, that is a movie that is, it is a very cool, um, mixture of like Star Wars and Lord of the Rings and what else, Dave? 02:18:13.21 Jala & Dave And also Bladerunner. It's, it's a lot and it's fantastic. 02:18:17.12 Jala & Dave We caught that in the theater too. And that's, that's one to watch with a bigger screen. 02:18:22.41 Jala & Dave Yeah, it's absolutely fantastic and fun. And that's another one where you really like, yes, it's steeped in the Indian culture and stuff, but at the same time, you can pick it up and watch it and understand what's going on. 02:18:33.49 Jala & Dave um It's wild. 02:18:33.61 K Yeah. 02:18:34.49 Jala & Dave And it's the first movie in a series of movies. So I'm looking forward to the next one for that for sure. 02:18:40.53 K Yeah. 02:18:40.69 Jala & Dave um But yeah, like that that's ah the story of Kalki, that particular story is basically about, yes, we're in the Kali Yuga, but the birth of God has come. Someone is God right now. And you know like they the everybody's trying to protect the mother of the God that will come. And you know the time has come and there's a bunch of different other things going on in the world. It's ah it's very fun, very, very great like little action movie, sci-fi action type movie and that also is infused with this this whole culture. 02:19:13.67 Jala & Dave So ah a totally different ah sort of field than Bramayugam, but related because it's about the birth of God coming to save everyone from the Kali Yuga. 02:19:27.18 K I love that we have access to this stuff. you know i just It's so great that we however difficult, however and you know you know the kind of kind of gray market you have to you have to extend, like you can you can just get ahold of this stuff from the literal other side of the world. 02:19:45.05 K It's marvelous. I love it. 02:19:46.94 Jala & Dave Absolutely. And for me, I just, I love being able to watch stuff like this where it's just so high quality and it's from a perspective that is, you know, not the perspective that I've grown up with because I didn't have a caster system growing up. I mean, yes, we have our our equivalents in the West, but ah we don't have that. So, you know, like these experiences and this, this kind of a story, it's timeless and it reaches across cultures. 02:20:13.32 Jala & Dave But at the same time, it also gives you a glimpse into a totally different way of being. 02:20:20.91 Jala & Dave Yeah. And the biggest shame in all of this is that the various movie industries within India, for whatever reason, don't like to do physical media. And at least they don't definitely don't switch to Blu-ray and the newer format. there's You can get hold of some DVD stuff. But um Even domestically, if you try to look for these films, they're just via streaming because they just really pumped, I think, a lot of money and resources into their streaming ah community. 02:20:57.50 K Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I don't know, we're headed the same way. 02:21:01.46 Jala & Dave Yep, absolutely. That's why, yeah, that's why I've been like frantically trying to get physical copies of things because I'm like, uh, I don't want to somehow like lose access to this thing because somebody took it off of their service or, uh, you know, this, that, or the other, or, you know, like the company goes out or whatever. 02:21:19.63 K you know Just let's kill this art for tax write off. 02:21:24.29 Jala & Dave Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 02:21:26.60 Jala & Dave So ah that has been Bramayugam. It is a fantastic movie. If you have not been convinced to go watch it yet, you should still go watch it, even though it was spoiled the shit out of if you haven't seen it yet. 02:21:35.26 K Yeah. 02:21:36.59 Jala & Dave So ah one more time for folks. Where in the world can you be found on the internet? 02:21:40.47 K Hmm? 02:21:40.92 Jala & Dave If you are to be found anywhere, Dave. You can find me on BlueSky at a senplus, or you can find myself and my co-hosts at monsterdear.monster. And cool. How about you? 02:21:58.62 K Yeah! You can find me personally on BlueSky at Kole Ross. That's K-O-L-E-R-O-S-S, because it's an unusual spelling. And I podcast over at duckfeed.tv. There you can see kind of a list of all the shows. so Way too many, um primarily about video games, but there's stuff there forever for a lot of kinds of people there, so. 02:22:18.91 Jala & Dave Yep, yep. And of course, I am Jalachan in all of the places that I may be found, including Jalachan.place where you got this episode and all of the others. So until next time, take care of yourself. Remember to smile and never look into the mouth of the Chathan. [Show Outro] Jala Jala-chan's Place is brought to you by Fireheart Media. If you enjoyed the show, please share this and all of our episodes with friends and remember to rate and review us on your podcast platform of choice. Word of mouth is the only way we grow. If you like, you can also kick us a few bucks to help us keep the lights on at ko-fi.com/fireheartmedia. Check out our other show Monster Dear Monster: A Monster Exploration Podcast at monsterdear.monster. Music composed and produced by Jake Lionhart with additional guitars and mixed by Spencer Smith. Follow along with my adventures via jalachan.place or find me at jalachan in places on the net! [Outro Music]