[Show Intro] Jala Hey, thanks for coming! I'm glad you're here. Come on in! Everyone's out on the patio right now. Looks like a couple of people are in the garden. I can't wait to introduce you! Can I get you anything? [turned away] Hey folks, our new guest is here! [Intro music] 00:00:02.06 Jala Hello, world, and welcome to Jalachan's Place. I'm your host, Jala Prendes, She Her, and today I am joined by Addy, She Her, yay! 00:00:11.16 Adelaide Yay! 00:00:11.62 Jala It's always a pleasure to have you on, Addy. 00:00:14.18 Adelaide Thank you. 00:00:15.26 Jala And I'm excited to be talking about a media thing with you again. It is great. 00:00:19.95 Adelaide Yeah. 00:00:19.92 Jala So yeah, today we are going to be talking about Lunar the Silver Star, which is the Sega CD version, as well as Lunar Silver Star Story Complete, the PS1 remake. Those two only, I know there's other remakes, several other remakes that came out after that. 00:00:36.01 Adelaide Yeah. 00:00:36.97 Jala ah We are limiting chat today to those first couple of iterations of this particular game. ah But before that, Addy, how are you doing today? 00:00:45.96 Adelaide I'm doing good. ah I got to go out and do karaoke last night, um and i didn't kit to i I didn't drink too much as to not make me an interesting or engaging person this morning, which is perfect. 00:00:53.20 Jala Ooh. 00:01:04.25 Adelaide I i was very seriously concerned, but everything i ended up working out, so I'm good. 00:01:07.55 Jala Yeah. 00:01:10.64 Jala Good job. but Meanwhile, um so we had hurricane barrel just to date when we're recording this. We had hurricane barrel blow through Houston last week and we didn't have power most of the week and it's hot in the summer. 00:01:18.95 Adelaide Aha! 00:01:23.68 Jala And you know, my parents, especially my dad needs the generator or something needs power ah because of all of the equipment that he has that he needs to have in order to not die. So um it was very stressful. ah Not scary, like ah ah a hurricane is still a hurricane, even if it's a category one, but that it ended up being a category one that is now on like the top five most disastrous Houston storms in the last like 30 years or something. 00:01:53.18 Adelaide Oh gosh. 00:01:54.06 Jala So, um you know, like it ended up really wrecking shop when it came through. And ah my house, the the canopy, the training canopy that we had outside for doing Muay Thai, like our our heavy bag and everything out there, um That got ripped to shreds. There is a mangled um frame I have to finish taking a saw to when it's metal, so that'll be fun ah in the heat. So I have that to do, but we took all the rest of the tarp and the legs and stuff off. ah Picked up all the damaged trees. There are still some branches that are up high in the canopy that I will have to get a grappling hook for to try to drag down 00:02:30.03 Adelaide Whoa! 00:02:31.95 Jala and break up so that I can hopefully get that on the curb for the trash people to come and get. So um you know ah we're still in the middle of ah fixing things up. There's some damage on the house a little bit, but not too bad. It's better than the people who did actually die from power outage and the people who died because a tree fell on them. That has happened to a few people. um But ah between that and then trying to work in the house ah running off of a generator ah during the week remotely so that I do not have to drive two hours across town to the office, 00:03:09.12 Adelaide Yeah. 00:03:09.32 Jala ah You know, ah it's been it's been a week and then, um you know, just ah other other world events recently. ah So all of that to say today, it is morning. We are recording. Well, actually, it's morning for you, Eddie. 00:03:23.04 Adelaide Yes. 00:03:24.75 Jala For me, it's it's early afternoon. 00:03:26.25 Adelaide That's true. 00:03:26.27 Jala So so I get a pass at this. 00:03:27.02 Adelaide Yeah. 00:03:28.03 Jala But I have an amaretto mule yeah was sitting right here next to me. So I may, as the show goes on, depending upon how much of it I am imbibing, ah become a more interesting host as we go. So that's where I'm at today. 00:03:40.81 Adelaide it's It's funny, you said ah grappling hook earlier. And you know i'm so I'm so video games poisoned that like grappling hooks aren't a thing that existed real life to me. 00:03:45.93 Jala Yes. 00:03:53.05 Adelaide So I was like, oh, so you get to do new and interesting traversal things now. That's cool. 00:03:58.91 Jala yeah Right, right. 00:03:59.88 Adelaide but 00:04:00.22 Jala So since I don't have the power of blink, you know, I can't blink around a la dishonored or anything like that. 00:04:04.84 Adelaide Right. 00:04:07.38 Jala So I have to do it the old fashioned way. it's Where's my my grappling hook gun, Ada, you know, so. 00:04:13.71 Adelaide Exactly. 00:04:17.04 Jala But anyway, so as for stuff that you do, Addy, right at the moment, I know you're not currently doing anything, putting out more content. you are You do stream on Twitch, or you do at times get into a bent of streaming on Twitch ah under Sister Adelaide. 00:04:26.17 Adelaide Yeah. 00:04:30.23 Adelaide Mhm. Mhm. 00:04:34.39 Jala And you also have your YouTube channel back on my BS. 00:04:36.63 Adelaide I do. Mhm. 00:04:38.58 Jala And we'll have notes for that. Show notes, show links in in the notes there for you ah so everybody can go and check that out. um Is there anything additional you want to add about any of that? 00:04:49.61 Adelaide No! 00:04:49.66 Jala I mean, like you are showing up on other people's shows. Like I know you've been doing a lot of homework. 00:04:52.95 Adelaide That's true. ah if If anyone is is curious to catch me on other podcasts, I'm on multiple episodes of this one, mostly top ah topical episodes, but sometimes I hop in for a media episode. um And then ada at least once a year, ah I've been on ah Dave Jackson's Tales from the Backlog, ah usually around Halloween time for spooky episodes. so Those are good. 00:05:23.15 Adelaide We did Silent Hill 2, I think was the first episode i I was on. And then we covered something else. 00:05:32.80 Jala Love the what's it what's it called lost something last last door last door. 00:05:35.38 Adelaide Oh, the last last door. Yeah, by the the blasphemous people. 00:05:37.54 Jala Yeah Mm-hmm 00:05:40.75 Adelaide um Those are both really super good episodes. I'm really happy with the way they turned out. So um yeah, unfortunately, since me and my fiance moved, we had to we're moving into a smaller apartment than our previous living space so we had to downsize a lot of stuff which means I had to transition from having like a actual like PC to using a laptop which is not very conducive to streaming or recording stuff for videos so unfortunately that's kind of on hiatus for now but 00:06:08.15 Jala Hmm. 00:06:13.21 Jala Gotcha. 00:06:13.28 Adelaide ah Yeah, but but ah but yeah, check me out yeah on this podcast or or on Tales from the Backlog. 00:06:21.57 Jala And also you had one with Dave here ah that you. 00:06:25.73 Adelaide That's right. ah we That didn't actually ever get recorded because we had to reschedule it. 00:06:31.57 Jala Yeah, so yeah, you had to push it back, but like you'll be up on monster to your monster presents here pretty shortly. 00:06:36.34 Adelaide Yes. 00:06:38.39 Jala ah Talking about unicorn overlord. I'll go ahead and let that drop. 00:06:41.99 Adelaide Yeah. 00:06:42.31 Jala So folks can look forward to that whenever that can get recorded and out there, but you will see it in your feed if you follow the Fireheart media anywhere. 00:06:49.32 Adelaide Absolutely. 00:06:52.92 Adelaide And just ah just a teaser for that conversation. 00:06:53.08 Jala So 00:06:56.92 Adelaide I don't think it's going to be as positive as I expected going into that game. 00:07:01.74 Jala Yeah, and we'll talk about it when we get through talking about Lunar, ah the OG, and then Lunar, the remake version on PS1. But ah it's it was kind of a roller coaster going through the PS1 remake for me, especially. And in kind of interesting, especially at the beginning when I was playing the Sega CD, it went over again because it's been so long since my last playthrough. 00:07:23.92 Adelaide Mhmm. 00:07:25.28 Jala And because you know ah this time I'm looking at one of my favorite games through Analytical Eyes. 00:07:28.28 Adelaide Mhmm. 00:07:31.29 Jala and And that changes your experience of it between the age difference from like the last time I played these to ah now, and then also just that mindset going into it, where you're not just absorbing it to have fun with the story, but you're like actually looking at it like, OK, what is it doing? 00:07:34.98 Adelaide Mhmm. 00:07:50.58 Jala Blah, blah, blah. 00:07:51.41 Adelaide Yeah. 00:07:51.39 Jala But we'll get there. So, ah but but I came away and as just a ah very basic overview. 00:07:56.25 Adelaide Mmhmm. 00:07:58.06 Jala I came away from it, um both of them, feeling like there's there's pros and cons to both versions of it. I still feel like for me personally, the Sega CD one is the one that I would say is in my top favorites. 00:08:08.33 Adelaide Mmhmm. 00:08:12.18 Jala I don't think I can give that to the PS1 version that came out in America because of certain things we will get into ah when we get there. ah Not because of the presentational stuff or even like the changes in the story, which I have been known to um get on a high horse about on various places. ah you know i've I've definitely done that a lot in the past. um But because of some other stuff, we'll we'll get into. 00:08:37.26 Adelaide Yeah. 00:08:37.34 Jala So um as for this show, ah my my little at the at the top PSA, we are on Ko-fi.com slash fire hurt media. You can kick us a few bucks to help us keep the lights on. It is literally just to keep this podcast going and Monster Dear Monster going so that it is not a further imposition to us. um You know, we do a lot of research, both Dave and I, And, you know, the guys that are on Monster, Dear Monster, and of course all the hosts, the guest hosts on the show. um We do a lot of of study. we do We put in a lot of time, man hours and stuff doing all this stuff, but we're not doing it for a profit. You know, like we we use it just to put back into the stuff that we're doing. So if you want to do that, it's KO-FI.com slash Fireheart Media. And of course, you can tell friends and share and all of that wonderful fun. 00:09:30.02 Jala But um spoiler policy for this episode is the same as what is usually done on most of the media episodes. If it's not, we'll tell you. But ah we will talk in broad strokes at the beginning, overview, little introduction to mechanics and stuff, um music, all of that wonderful fun. And then we will ah put up a spoiler wall and tell you all about the plot in detail. And on today's episode, we are going to be talking about leading with the Sega CD original and then adding in, well, this is how it differs in the PS1 remake from the original version. So if you have never played the Sega CD version, this would be a good episode for you to get into if you are familiar with PS1, but not the Sega CD. So. So, yeah, let's get into it. 00:10:22.50 Adelaide um 00:10:23.19 Jala Uh-huh. 00:10:23.56 Adelaide So Lunar the Silver Star was developed by Game Arts and Studio Alex published in 1992 by Game Arts in Japan, and then 1993 by Working Designs in America. ah To put this in perspective, Final Fantasy V, Shining Force I, Fire Emblem Gaiden, Shin Megami Tensei, Ultima VII. 00:10:47.10 Jala Seven. Mm-hmm. Roman numerals, damn it. 00:10:49.82 Adelaide ah Yeah, Ultima 7, the Black Gate, and Dungeons & Dragons Warriors of the Eternal Sun were other RPGs of different stripes that came out that same year. ah There are some similarities between some of the concurrent titles. Final Fantasy V and Lunar both have instanced turn-based battles and randomized battles. ah Warriors and has both Ultima-style top-down combat and SMT-style dungeon combat. ah Shining Force and Fire Emblem have tactical tile-based RPG combat, but the formula for what we know as a standard narrative focus JRPG wasn't created yet. 00:11:29.84 Adelaide ah This means no fire ah Final Fantasy VI or Chrono Trigger or other things that we kind of think of as hallmarks of the genre. 00:11:29.80 Jala Right. 00:11:41.74 Jala Right. They weren't invented yet. they didn't They didn't exist at this time. 00:11:45.49 Adelaide It's always so interesting. So I have a really like fractured idea of when games came out um because for a very long time, um I was at least one or two console generations behind when things were released. So like it's always so weird to hear like there were things coming out in Japan for the PlayStation and like the Super Nintendo at the same time. 00:12:09.94 Jala Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's kind of wild when you think back to it. Cause like one of the first things that a lot of people who are just like, lunar is not that cool or whatever, or a lunar has these things wrong with it. A lot of people who say that kind of thing, they're saying it cause they're compares it, comparing it to things that came out later that they're not aware or didn't exist at the time that lunar existed. 00:12:30.86 Adelaide Right. 00:12:31.25 Jala and You know, like when lunar first came out, it's on Sega CD, but also like these SNES titles hadn't come out yet. you know So you didn't have your Final Fantasy with Terra and all the other rest of stuff. 00:12:38.76 Adelaide Yeah, yeah. 00:12:43.99 Jala And you didn't have your Chrono Trigger. 00:12:44.42 Adelaide Right. 00:12:46.43 Jala you know Those didn't exist yet. The the kind of um you know recipe for what we consider to be a JRPG. like there's ah There were so many different forms that it was taking at that time. 00:12:55.78 Adelaide Yeah. 00:12:57.17 Jala There were different strategy tactical RPGs, which, of course, you were on that episode talking about Fire Emblem. But we also talked about strategy RPGs in general as a subgenre. And um you know like those kinds of things were starting to be fiddled with. And you had that kind of thing, and you had you know like the first-person kind of dungeon combat thing going and top-down kind of things going. 00:13:17.98 Adelaide Right. 00:13:21.53 Jala But like you know the instanced turn-based battle thing was just one of many different forms that was you know being taken at that time for Japanese RPGs. 00:13:28.18 Adelaide Yeah. 00:13:32.14 Jala so That's something that people aren't often aware of when we're talking about that. so um One of the things, of course, that I always try to do is I try to place it in history. like what What else came out at the same time? What else came out after it that people know? okay so Those things didn't exist yet. right So ah this game, I was not aware of this until I was doing some research and talking to some folks because I never played ease. 00:13:49.82 Adelaide yeah 00:13:56.60 Jala But ease books one and two on Turbo graphics CD was released in Japan in 1989 in North America in 1990. And it was one of the first games on disk and was an enhanced remake of the first two Ys games. And Lunar, the Silver Star, was taking a page from the style of Ys Books 1 and 2 because it featured animated cutscenes with voiceover, things that were only possible with the CD-ROM format. Now, granted, in the original Sega CD game, there's not ah a lot. 00:14:27.29 Jala Like, there's a lot of parts where it has animations and the mouths are moving, but there's no talking because they just didn't have room on the disc. 00:14:30.74 Adelaide yeah 00:14:34.60 Jala But they do have a lot of places where, you know, you've got animations with, you know, actual talking. 00:14:34.79 Adelaide 00:14:41.03 Jala Usually the animations are just a mouth moving because, like, again, they don't have the space to put all of that on the disk. But um that is a thing that Yeez was known for. ah But Yeez had top-down action gameplay more like the Legend of Zelda. 00:14:52.35 Adelaide Yeah. 00:14:55.52 Jala Whereas Lunar had top-down overworld maps and instanced turn-based battles more like a Final Fantasy. 00:14:55.73 Adelaide Right. 00:15:02.32 Jala So, um you know, it was doing stuff that was kind of new at the time ah in some ways. And kind of not, because, like, Yeez Books 1 and 2 came out in North America in 1990, and then this game came out three years later. So, you know, some stuff that had been around for a few years you know, but they were still adopting elements of that, elements of a Final Fantasy and so on. 00:15:22.93 Adelaide Yeah. 00:15:29.32 Jala So it's kind of fun because it's kind of like when we were talking about Fire Emblem as a genre, as a game, and then also as basically a genre and in and and of itself, you you know, it was borrowing stuff from Ultima also and from other things, you know. 00:15:40.37 Adelaide Right, yeah, absolutely. 00:15:42.53 Jala Yeah, so um it's fun to see because like it's just like this whole rolling evolution ah that that we see. And then like now, it's different because you don't you have so many more games coming out these days because the technology is so much more advanced. 00:15:56.41 Adelaide Yeah. 00:15:56.49 Jala So like people are branching off in a bunch of different directions. And you also have a bunch of indie developers doing stuff where you didn't before. So you know that kind of changes the the playing field. like Now, I feel like unless it makes really big waves in the news, you know even if something is really innovative and cool, it may just be totally overlooked you know and not adopted into the format of a genre so much anymore or being a new genre as much. 00:16:17.23 Adelaide Right. 00:16:24.03 Adelaide Yeah. 00:16:26.02 Jala But ah circling back to Lunar, though, it was the number one best selling Mega CD title in Japan and second highest title for the system worldwide. So it's direct sequel, Lunar, the Eternal Blue, which I'm super excited talk to talk about ah later on this year, released in 1994. 00:16:40.62 Adelaide yeah 00:16:44.43 Jala And the original game saw three different remakes. There's the PS1 version, ah Lunar Silver Story, Silver Star Story Complete, which was on the Saturn in Japan in 1996. 00:16:54.60 Adelaide hmm oh 00:16:56.59 Jala That's the reason I bought a Saturn and then it didn't come out on the Saturn. And so I ended up like a friend of mine bought me a PS1 so I could play this game specifically for this game because I loved it so much. 00:17:06.99 Adelaide wow uh-huh 00:17:10.24 Jala Then there was Lunar Legend on the Game Boy Advance in 2002, and then Lunar Silver Star Harmony on the PSP in 2009. I played Lunar Legend. It's fine. It doesn't really add a whole lot. It's cutesier. than I would like. 00:17:26.14 Adelaide Yeah. 00:17:27.84 Jala It adds a little bit of flavor here and there but otherwise it's pretty standard to one of the two versions that already existed previously. ah Silver Star Harmony, it is my impression that they added a lot more stuff into the story and they they of course have a different translation of the everything. um It wasn't the same game arts people making it though, it was a different developer. 00:17:50.07 Adelaide Oh, okay. 00:17:51.73 Jala So um I tried to boot it up and play it and I was just so appalled by some of the things that were happening because it was leaning more on that PS1 remake. And I was like, oh, I don't know. 00:18:00.59 Adelaide Aha. 00:18:03.14 Jala And then I just kind of turned it off and and never went back to it. So that's my error. Maybe at some point in the future, I'll be like, OK, I need to actually play it because some people who had played it really enjoyed it. 00:18:11.59 Adelaide Yeah. 00:18:14.75 Jala So. 00:18:15.48 Adelaide I poked around at Harmony a little bit previous to this like you know five or ten years ago because I have also, although this is my first time I've ever played the original version, I was a long time fan of the PS1 version, um and so i you know I was kind of excited to see that there was another port and ah both Legend and Silver Star Harmony, I think honestly the biggest like turn off for me is they completely changed the battle system to be just a standard JRPG turn based battle system, which like, you know, there there are obviously a lot of things going for Lunar that are like pulls for it. 00:18:50.15 Jala Mmm. 00:18:54.01 Jala Ah. 00:19:00.84 Adelaide But like for me, I think one of the most interesting things is the battle system. So to take that or maybe not even interesting, but like unique. So like to take that and just reduce it to normal JRPG combat, like the turn-based combat is just like, I don't know, at that point you might as well, it might as well just be like a like a hour and a half OVA, like what are we even doing anymore? 00:19:25.39 Jala Right. Well, I mean, so much of it is animated anyway. I'm actually surprised they never did make like an an anime an OVA or like a movie or something out of it. 00:19:29.93 Adelaide Yeah. 00:19:35.32 Adelaide Mm-hmm. 00:19:36.43 Jala But, but yeah, and it's funny that you say that about the combat because for and this is this is just because um this was Jala talking pre looking at this from an analytical angle. um But like for the longest time, when I was referring to this game, I'm like, You're not really there for the gameplay. The gameplay is not the greatest. It's stock standard JRPG shit. And so I was like downplaying it a lot, but it really does have some interesting things that it is doing. We will get there ah when we talk about gameplay. It does, but like it took me replaying it again and looking at it in the historical context and looking up when everything came out and all of this other mess to go, 00:20:16.65 Jala No, it actually is doing a few things that are unique, even if they are you know fiddling with kind of a Final Fantasy formula in some ways, without getting into like the the hairiness of dealing with all the jobs and stuff. so ah But we'll get there. 00:20:28.85 Adelaide Yeah. 00:20:30.86 Jala But this game has not been ported to modern systems. So um there's there's a lot of talk about ah Victor Ireland, the head of the now defunct working designs, having a problem um you know with like the money that is being offered or something like that. um And he's just kind of holding on to the rights to that. But I don't think there's actually any documented proof about what the exact scenario is. 00:20:56.44 Adelaide hmm 00:20:56.47 Jala um I know at some point ah working designs really just like had 00:20:59.84 Adelaide hmm 00:21:02.20 Jala a big falling out with Sega over something. And that's why ah the the remakes came out on the PS1 and had nothing to do with Sega. 00:21:08.50 Adelaide hmm hmm hmm hmm 00:21:12.20 Jala So there was a big falling out with Sega. That's probably the primary reason why. 00:21:15.22 Adelaide hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm 00:21:17.61 Jala So ah for folks who don't know what the hell the story is of this game, the very basic version of this is there's a boy named Alex and he dreams of becoming a dragon master, which is the first of the four heroes protecting the goddess Althena. He and his friends decide to go on an adventure to a nearby white dragon cave in order to obtain the dragon diamond. In doing so, Alex simultaneously begins his journey to become a Dragon Master as he has the green eyes that are common to all those who eventually become the mighty hero. 00:21:49.92 Jala They make a big deal about him having green eyes, and I understand green eyes are like the rarest color of eye, but like they really, as you've got the green eyes, you've got to be a Dragon Master, like it's a little wild actually. 00:21:52.55 Adelaide Yeah. 00:21:56.56 Adelaide Aha. Yeah. 00:22:03.78 Jala So yeah, that's kind of like the overall about like just just the the basics of the story. it's It's a very, very, the original game, that there are some differences. The original game, although ah the plot is for the most part the same, um It is not as focused on the love elements as the ps1 remake the ps1 remake leans into it ah real hard to the point that you almost feel like you're watching like a ah like a rom-com or something and ah There's that 00:22:27.07 Adelaide yeah 00:22:35.13 Adelaide ahha 00:22:38.39 Jala And, and like they they really are are just like that the changes they made to the story too, are there in ways to kind of like tug at your heartstrings and stuff to make you feel things about the the relationships between the people like the relationships of everybody are are super important to this game and the characters themselves and they're like the the basic story is 00:22:51.75 Adelaide Yeah. Yeah. 00:23:01.35 Jala You know, like the plot of fighting against the magic emperor who wants to take over the world or be actually to become a god, which, you know, we see that kind of thing in a lot of JRPGs. Little boy in a town comes to to overcome all or whatever. 00:23:13.10 Adelaide Aha. 00:23:15.73 Jala But like the ad added part here is. It's superpower of humanity, which is a shonen shonan thing. 00:23:22.99 Adelaide Yeah. 00:23:23.31 Jala But for the power of love, which is a shoujo thing. So like it's kind of going all over the place in a lot of interesting ways ah with the remake in particular. The the first the first iteration on the Sega CD, I feel, this is kind of more of an action-adventure-y feel to it. 00:23:43.25 Adelaide yeah Yeah, I feel like a lot of the story edits, especially with where the characters are concerned, um feel very... They're not like untrue to the original idea of the characters, but they definitely feel like they push them more further into like popular anime tropes of the time. 00:24:04.61 Jala yeah 00:24:05.82 Adelaide So like, you know, all of the male characters get a little bit more horny. All of the girl characters get a little bit more naggy. 00:24:13.63 Jala and 00:24:14.01 Adelaide The the hero is just like super, super good justice all the time. And, you know, stuff like that. 00:24:20.45 Jala He may as well be a silent protagonist, right? 00:24:22.75 Adelaide Yeah. 00:24:23.28 Jala And that's the thing. In the original version, Alex doesn't talk, except there's one animated cutscene where he goes, Luna! And that's it. 00:24:30.37 Adelaide Yeah. Yeah. 00:24:31.28 Jala That's it. He doesn't speak otherwise. He has dot, dot, dot, which was, again, the style of the time when that game came out. 00:24:37.24 Adelaide Yeah. 00:24:37.28 Jala But then, with even voice lines in the PS1, and like they gave him a lot more to say, and they actually have him replying in the text bubbles and stuff, nothing he says is additive. 00:24:46.74 Adelaide Yeah, it's just not interesting. 00:24:47.28 Jala They may as well not be there. There's not a personality. 00:24:49.38 Adelaide Uh-huh. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:24:52.53 Jala So it's kind of funny that they did that. You know, like they chose to do that so that way they could give him some kind of, you know, um so so that way you could start to separate him out as a character in the middle of this love story with a bunch of different love stories because all the characters in your party are in love with somebody else in your party. 00:25:09.36 Adelaide Yeah, it really is just like three couples ah traveling around together. 00:25:12.50 Jala Yeah. 00:25:14.97 Jala Which I don't think I've seen in any other JRPG, which is kind of wild. 00:25:18.63 Adelaide Yeah, that's true. 00:25:19.62 Jala And I did want to mention something else, too, that I was thinking about this morning. And I know we haven't gotten to the gameplay stuff yet. But um I was thinking about it. And I'm like, you know, um this is something that I had crossed my mind previously. But I hadn't thought about it in the same way until getting ready for the show. There is a certain amount of representation going on here. But it's it's weird because you've got the dark skinned character, Kyle. And you have the half half-something character, you know like the mixed race character, Jessica, who's half beastman and half human. 00:25:45.96 Adelaide uh-huh right right well it's it's interesting because like there definitely is like different racial cultures in the world in the way that there is in our world but they don't really seem to have the same sort of like 00:25:52.08 Jala But then like they don't intermingle with the white people. They they get together. 00:26:12.12 Adelaide I don't know, meaning? So like you're right, there are a couple of dark skinned characters. ah There are beast people which get, no, I don't even know where beast people come from. like There's definitely Mel and Jessica and that's it. 00:26:22.18 Jala Well, the thing is, is that they're integrated into the general population. And if you talk to the Beastmen characters in town, they will tell you about how they are being oppressed by the humans and how they are being mistrusted by the humans and all of that. 00:26:33.13 Adelaide Oh, okay. 00:26:36.60 Jala But they don't have a home that they come from. 00:26:38.33 Adelaide Aha. 00:26:40.44 Jala Where are the black people? I don't know. Kyle's a black person, sort of, or a dark-skinned guy. 00:26:43.53 Adelaide Right, I mean like but but again like he also just he comes from a very like arid desert area So he could just be really tan who knows And like the only sort of oh Yeah, that's true That's true Yeah 00:26:53.13 Jala He could be. He could be. We don't know. Oh, but no, he can't. Well, unless he's going outside a lot with no clothes on, because there is that ah you do get to see his whole ass in the in the the springs when you go purify at the springs. So um it it could be that he is just a black man or a dark-skinned man of some some stripe or another. you know Who knows which what what that would correlate to. um 00:27:19.44 Adelaide The only thing close that they try to do with like racial stuff is like the the vile tribe aspect of the plot. 00:27:26.85 Jala Yes. 00:27:28.51 Adelaide But even that, like and within what you interact with in the game doesn't really feel like it's fully formed as an idea or like isn't really supposed to be like commentary. It's just a plot point. 00:27:43.90 Jala Right, because um so so in this game, one of the major plot elements that ah we're not going to spoil it or anything, but theres there's one of the major plot elements involves the group of people called the Vile Tribe in the working designs translation. 00:27:46.60 Adelaide Hm. 00:27:59.18 Jala in Japanese this is mazoku or what that that translates to if you look at the kanji is like evil race and um in a lot of different anime and things like that you will have a mazoku character who is like um a a demon race but they're not all bad like the the thing with a lot of different types of um different forms of life that are talked about in Japanese culture is that they're not really painted as all of them are just complete evil you know like There are good ones and things like that. 00:28:31.69 Jala Something that's not mentioned a lot is that a main character in you know that that is very prominent throughout the entire story is a Mazuku. But they never tell you that he's a Mazuku at any point in the story. 00:28:41.28 Adelaide Yeah. 00:28:45.28 Jala But you just have to like know by looking at him from looking at the other Mazuku characters that this guy is one of those guys. um because like you don't see them anywhere because they were banished according to the storyline. 00:28:58.40 Adelaide Right. 00:29:00.14 Jala So like they were put over there in basically a concentration camp to die ah with no with nobody looking over them. 00:29:04.72 Adelaide yeah yeah for sure but the funny the funny thing about that as a plot point is they are still the bad guys like they're totally just like 00:29:09.21 Jala just They were just sent out into the wilderness to die in like a wasteland. And um you know like that is but very like that that tracks to things that have happened in our real world ah So, you know, um I know hopping around. 00:29:31.03 Adelaide it especially much more sorry we're kind of like hopping all over the place uh but like especially the ps1 version they're explicitly bad guys and like i don't know i feel like they're pretty justified in being angry that their ancestors were like banished to a completely devoid of resources area and like you know that that doesn't seem unfair of them 00:29:37.65 Jala Yes. 00:29:57.08 Jala And that's the thing is that essentially, like it it feels like part of the plot line is genocide, although like you're not fighting everybody. 00:30:05.44 Adelaide right 00:30:06.35 Jala And the thing is, is that in the PS1 version also, they give a lot more character to the the vile tribe in general. And they also have a character who is very prominent, who tells you the the sympathetic side of the vile tribe. 00:30:19.37 Adelaide listen 00:30:19.43 Jala and tells you that, you know, like there are vile tribe members who, because of how harsh the conditions are, have to live in like a life pod, like, you know, Vegeta and the the pod, the restorative pod or whatever, kind of have to live like that because they cannot exist outside that pod because of how bad the conditions are. 00:30:30.78 Adelaide Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:30:37.80 Jala And that's something that was added in the PS1 version to make them more sympathetic. So I'm not sure what Japan is trying to tell us really about this, because they're like, have sympathy, but murder them. Like, OK. 00:30:50.52 Adelaide Right. 00:30:51.91 Jala Well, we'll dig it more into that after the spoiler wall. um But but but, yeah, like it's interesting because they do have some kind of representation going, although it also feels kind of like an afterthought. 00:30:55.42 Adelaide Yeah. 00:31:03.22 Jala Like it's not like they they do have the characters, the basement characters talk about how they are being, you know, um treated by humans. And you have the vile tribe talking about how they were treated, you know, how they were being treated by humans or how they were pushed out past the borders and they resent the humans for not having the same conditions. 00:31:21.18 Adelaide Yeah Yeah Yeah 00:31:21.60 Jala um But, you know, like it's not like, like the vile tribe has a place that they live, but you don't know where the beast men came from. You don't know where the black people are. You just don't know. um So it's it's kind of interesting that way. um but But still, I mean, it's kind of cool that they took the time to put those NPCs in there that are telling you these things and conveying this information and that they were cognizant enough about it to whatever they were trying to do, give you a more sympathetic look at some of these characters that you would otherwise, by the name, Vile Tribe, you know, you're not supposed to like them. 00:31:57.69 Jala They're supposed to be bad guys. 00:31:58.01 Adelaide Yeah 00:31:59.20 Jala So, you know, um Anyway, we can we'll talk more about that later. Let's get into the gameplay. Because that was a thing that, again, ah for the longest time, I downplayed how interesting you know the gameplay can be. So in the Sega CD version, you have a top-down overworld towns and dungeons with random encounters on an overworld map. And then you also have dungeon maps that also have random encounters. So um that these were changed in the PS1 version. 00:32:30.43 Jala to where there are no battles on the overworld at all, and you are zoomed out even further, so the the overworld traversal is shorter because you don't need it to be a long-winded walk across the world if there's no battles, right? 00:32:37.02 Adelaide Yeah. 00:32:46.08 Adelaide Yeah. 00:32:47.22 Jala And then in the dungeons, when you go into all the different and battle areas, you can actually see the monsters and you can run away from them if you don't want to fight them. 00:32:50.92 Adelaide Mhm. 00:32:59.47 Jala So you can choose whether or not to engage with them. 00:33:02.46 Adelaide Yeah. 00:33:03.73 Jala And the monsters themselves have different sprites that tell you what the predominant like population of monsters is so you know what you're fighting. 00:33:11.52 Adelaide Yeah, I thought that was really cool. And ah one of the cool things that um I think you get from playing both versions back to back is to see how much of the ah like original designs and stuff were just carried over like almost one to one um into the PlayStation version. 00:33:29.07 Jala yeah 00:33:31.21 Adelaide but like made a little bit more detailed and enhanced. you know um I was really surprised to see how much ah you know it isn't much of a redesign. It's more of just like a like a facelift in that in that respect. 00:33:48.95 Jala right and the way that they have the um dungeons having like the critters that you can run away from and this that and the other uh that is something that they added because of lunar two because you had the original sega cd lunar the silver star then you had lunar eternal blue on sega cd come out and then the next thing to come out after that was the remake of lunar one so they took they borrowed a lot of elements from what they were doing in lunar two when they remade Lunar 1 for the PS1. 00:34:19.47 Jala So um you will hear, especially whenever we get to Lunar 2, we will be talking about a lot of these different mechanical things again, because that's where that came from. um They were not, like they added, they they innovated a little bit here, but they were pulling a lot from what they were doing with Lunar 2. 00:34:28.89 Adelaide Yeah. 00:34:37.10 Adelaide And again, like it's it's worth noting, Lunar 2 came out in 94. And like you know people still talk about how like obnoxious like random battles are and like how having enemy placement on the map is like a notable feature. And like here it was in the game so early on in the in the genre. right like you know That's a notable thing about Chrono Trigger. 00:35:02.35 Jala Chrono Trigger. 00:35:04.41 Adelaide right 00:35:04.92 Jala Yeah, Chrono Trigger, was that 95? 00:35:08.32 Adelaide Ooh, good question. 00:35:11.57 Jala Well, I'll keep talking and maybe you can look it up when I'm talking. ah So ah you have turn-based instance battles where you must keep in mind a character's movement capacity as the player character sprites have to run over to the enemies and vice versa. So depending upon how much range each character has that's on the map, that makes a difference as to how that battle plays out, who can hit who within X number of turns and things like that. And so, um your placement of your people, like, you know, you get to organize your party on like a small little grid. 00:35:45.67 Adelaide Yeah. 00:35:45.76 Jala And that's important. And then of course, um you know, just being aware, being cognizant of like the range of your characters so that you know, can I get over there and hit him? Because I only have one attack. Can I hit him? Or can't I hit him? Can I use a spell? What can I do? You know, 00:36:01.62 Adelaide Right. Yeah. um So yes, credit trigger was 95. So even before that, and like again, it's it's like notable, but it happens in modern games for our time. you know like It's still not something that's made its way into you know like JRPG mainstream design. 00:36:17.26 Jala yeah 00:36:24.54 Adelaide So that's pretty pretty cool to see as like a concept so early. 00:36:24.50 Jala Right. 00:36:28.66 Jala Yeah, because it predated the release of Chrono Trigger as well. And I'm sure there were some other JRPGs or something that had done, but I don't know. 00:36:35.94 Adelaide I know EarthBound has it too, but 00:36:38.12 Jala Don't know. Don't know. 00:36:41.04 Jala I kind of just put that out there as a, I'm sure that's a thing. Well, you know what? It was actually because in ah Warriors of the Eternal Sun, that D and&D game that came out in 92 when this game came out, ah the original Sega CD version, that game on the overworld, you had you could see the little guys you know that were coming for you. 00:36:49.57 Adelaide Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 00:37:00.46 Jala They weren't random battles. And so like you could choose to engage them or go in the other direction. So um not quite the same kind of way that it plays out, but same concept. 00:37:05.29 Adelaide Gotcha. 00:37:11.33 Jala So like I said, there there it did exist before, but it wasn't as popular. 00:37:15.65 Adelaide Yeah. 00:37:16.03 Jala Lunar2 adopted it, and then the remakes adopted it off of that. So um but yeah, so not understanding your target and making sure that you select the correct target for your weapon range is very important. 00:37:29.61 Adelaide Yeah. 00:37:29.66 Jala um And so, for example, I always try to equip Nash with a bow as much as possible. 00:37:33.07 Adelaide Yeah. 00:37:35.27 Jala He is a magic user, but he runs out of magic way faster than the other magic using character Mia. So I have a tendency of putting Nash with a bow because at least that way he can do some damage. Something that I do like about 00:37:46.17 Adelaide yeah 00:37:48.33 Jala um Like both versions, but the remake in particular is that some of your magic using characters are viable as physical combatants as well. 00:37:57.78 Adelaide Yeah. 00:37:58.45 Jala They do not have the same oomph that a Kyle or an Alex do, but they can do some damage. ah Nash is pretty strong in both games, with like especially if you give him a bow. And also Jessica is very strong and she's your healer. And she in the remake version gets to the point where she gets two attacks per turn. 00:38:18.96 Adelaide Yeah. 00:38:19.09 Jala And she actually criticals quite often. 00:38:21.47 Adelaide Hmm. 00:38:22.06 Jala And if you give her the like, you know, if you put her up closer to the front, like behind Alex and Kyle, because she has less protection on her, she she has less defense. um But like, if you let her go and attack stuff, she will finish some stuff off for sure. 00:38:37.16 Adelaide Yeah, definitely. it's It's nice to have um Because one of the things that I always worry about, especially in older JRPGs, is like resource manager management tends to be a lot tighter. um So like you know you one thing that I think is kind of cool about both versions, I feel like it's probably tuned a little bit better in the PS1 version, is like I feel like the encounters and like the dungeons are made with the idea that you're going to be using magic in them, not that you're like saving it up for a big battle. 00:39:11.17 Jala Right. 00:39:11.48 Adelaide you know Because a lot of the time, you know your your magic will ah it's very, very little of it is actually like single target magic. A lot of it is an area of effect for like you know in a single line or in a circle around a target or stuff like that. so like you want it it I feel like it really encourages you to like think about you know how you're attacking enemies, where you're positioning your characters. I think my only my only like want for this system is to be a little bit more clear about like what 00:39:50.15 Adelaide units movement ranges are and like maybe a command that was just like move I mean like you could do you could reposition characters with like the defense but it kind of it's hard to like give up a turn just to move someone to somewhere else but there are times where like 00:40:03.26 Jala right Right. 00:40:08.00 Adelaide especially with boss battles I found like if you leave your party super clumped up it's really easy to get wiped out that way because bosses also tend to have a lot of like aoe attacks but if you spread them out then the boss has to like choose where it's going to target something 00:40:26.41 Jala Right. So um something else that's interesting that varies between the two different versions of this game is that your primary character, Alex, in the original version gains massive amounts of magic from the get-go of having magic. 00:40:40.87 Adelaide Yeah. 00:40:41.05 Jala um So he doesn't start out with any kind of spell spells or skills or anything like that. 00:40:44.50 Adelaide Uh 00:40:45.91 Jala And he eventually gains magic. We're talking fireballs. We're talking heal spells. Alex can do a little bit of everything. 00:40:50.86 Adelaide -huh. 00:40:52.54 Jala And for me, that makes sense for him being the Dragon Master, because if you are like the head honcho, who's supposed to be there to protect the goddess and this, that and the other, and you are the leader of the four heroes, you should be able to take on basically anyone else's job for them. You're not going to be as specialized as a mage who that's what they do or whatever but like you can at least um have enough oomph to make a difference and stand your ground on your own. And the thing is in the original version, in the Sega CD version, Alex is on his own a lot. 00:41:25.52 Adelaide yeah 00:41:25.65 Jala He is on his own and he never is on his own in the PS1 version. Part of that is because of the theme of the power of friendship, the power of humanity that they really like you know amped up in the remake. 00:41:36.75 Adelaide ahha 00:41:37.73 Jala But I liked when they had him be alone because it makes you feel like, oh, wow, I myself personally as Alex are going through these trials and I'm making it out the other side alone. I don't have a healer. 00:41:49.48 Adelaide Yeah. Yeah. 00:41:50.05 Jala I don't have a mage. I am all of those things. And I have to do this by myself. And like, you know, that really makes it feel more rewarding when you get to the Dragon Master phase, right? Because like, oh, I earned this. I did this myself. And yes, I have friends. 00:42:04.26 Adelaide Yeah. 00:42:04.89 Jala They are helping me along. But that's because the kind of theming of the first game versus the second one is very different. Because in the second one, it leans on your friends all along the way. You know, that's your true power and stuff like that. 00:42:16.39 Adelaide Right. Yeah. Uh-huh. 00:42:18.50 Jala You know, like going into the super showed shown in direction with that. you know um so So it's a little bit different, but the intention of the game feels different to me. you know Like they kind of realized after they did Lunar 2 and how that game plays out, which we'll get to later this year, um they realized that they really want to lean into like the love elements and the friendship and things like that. 00:42:28.85 Adelaide Yeah. 00:42:41.27 Jala So when they refined and redid the first game over again for the PS1, they changed it so that it aligned better with the theming of what they were doing with two. 00:42:54.71 Adelaide Yeah, and I think in general in the PS1 version, there is a lot of, I don't even know that streamlining is necessarily the right word, but like refinement maybe specifically of like, so in the original game, you get a lot of spells. Everybody gets a lot of spells, except for like, 00:43:11.13 Jala And you have no idea what they do. 00:43:13.10 Adelaide Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, that's the thing is there's no help text in game. I guess presumably you would have the game manual, which hopefully tells you. 00:43:21.03 Jala It's in there. 00:43:21.81 Adelaide But but like, you know, and and the thing that's always hard about those things is like hardly any anything tells you damage numbers. 00:43:21.78 Jala it it It was in the manual. 00:43:31.62 Adelaide So unless you're doing like tests every battle, then you know, it's it's hard to make a tactical decision. Whereas in the remake, everybody has anywhere from like four to eight abilities that they could do. So, you know, ah for instance, Alex has like a couple of different sword skills, a self buff, and then he gets all of his dragon magic once you start doing the dragon stuff. Or, you know, ah Mia has three 00:44:05.99 Adelaide elemental spells for fire that have different ranges and three elemental spells for ice that have different ranges, you know, things like that. So like you're not overwhelmed with these just huge spell lists. I will say though that I do miss Alex having healing magic because there are times where either at Luna or um Jessica are out of your party and that really like makes things harder because ah the the characters have a limited inventory that they can bring into battles with them essentially. 00:44:35.14 Jala Mm hmm. 00:44:40.19 Adelaide So if you're not making sure that everyone's fully stocked with healing items during those portions, things can get really hairy. 00:44:47.65 Jala Yeah, absolutely. And it also forces you to like heal in between battles more. 00:44:52.37 Adelaide Yeah. 00:44:52.63 Jala And something that they had in the original game that they they did not have in the remake is that they had a packed lunch that you could buy. 00:44:59.65 Adelaide Oh. 00:45:00.91 Jala You could buy a lunch for like 30 gold and from the beginning of the game. And if you ate it outside of battle, it would heal everyone in the party X amount of HP, which is very useful. um Eventually it gets moed outmoded and there isn't like a high-powered replacement for it. But at the beginning of the game, especially since it's like you and Luna, who is like the girl you grew up with the whole time. And you're like going off on this little adventure with your friend, Ramis. It just feels like having a packed lunch is the most adorable thing and like suitable for this because you're like you know ah you're younger. 00:45:31.41 Adelaide Hmm. Yeah. 00:45:37.12 Jala That's another thing we didn't mention. In the Sega CD version, you're younger. You're like, I don't know, 14 or 15, where like they aged everyone up. when they did the remake. And that's partially because they made everybody hornier in the remake, ah but because they're having these strong love elements and things like that. 00:45:49.05 Adelaide Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:45:53.37 Jala And they didn't want to do that with like, you know, little kids. So they they aged everyone up, you know. 00:45:56.55 Adelaide Yeah. 00:45:59.61 Jala but um But yeah, like Alex originally used to have flame spells and things like that. And he was you know pretty viable as a mage, although he couldn't do as much damage as the actual mages. But um you know in a pinch, he could do something. And he could also heal people a certain amount if he didn't have a healer. And that was cool. um They took a note, again, from Lunar 2 when they redid Alex's skills in the remake. Because in Lunar 2, your main character hero does not have, and it's H-I-R-O, by the way, it's not A-T-R-O, but he is the hero named Hero. 00:46:29.31 Adelaide Yeah. Aha. 00:46:34.50 Jala Anyway, he has more of a personality than Alex. You will look forward to that. But ah he does not have any magic. He is not a Dragon Master. He's not trying to be a Dragon Master. There is no Dragon Master thing, like, you know, path for him to take or anything like that. So um he just does sword stuff. 00:46:48.73 Adelaide Right. 00:46:51.51 Jala So they took that idea and they made Alex do sword stuff like Hero did. So um the dragon magic that you eventually get, when you first get the dragon spells in the original version, the Sega CD version, you can use the dragon spell like once when you first get it. 00:47:06.19 Adelaide Mhm. 00:47:07.57 Jala But in the remake, when you first get the first dragon spell, you don't even have enough MP to do that spell yet. 00:47:14.09 Adelaide Yeah. 00:47:15.47 Jala because like you know So you you can't even use it when you first get it because like it's so high cost. So you have to be very tactful about when you deploy these skills. 00:47:20.96 Adelaide Yeah. 00:47:24.73 Jala oh 00:47:24.84 Adelaide And honestly, for the remake for Alex specifically, I don't think I ever used any of the Dragon magic. um 00:47:33.37 Jala You don't really need it. 00:47:34.61 Adelaide Yeah, because I feel like nine times out of ten Alex is much better just doing like DPS. He's really good at doing a lot of damage. So like the dragon spells give you a little bit of utility and what you can do. 00:47:44.21 Jala Yeah. 00:47:48.65 Adelaide There's one that heals the party, one that does damage to every everyone, one that's a chance at an instant kill, and one that will block the next magic spell, I think. 00:47:59.15 Jala Yes. Yes, white dragon for protect. 00:48:01.38 Adelaide Yeah, so like situationally like in a pinch you might want to heal everyone if you don't want to like drop a turn having everyone heal themselves maybe that might be a good choice but like the instant kill one is kind of not worth it uh because everybody by the time you get it everybody is doing so much damage that like you don't really have to worry about instant kills and the the fire damage one never seemed like it did enough damage for the cost so 00:48:31.21 Jala Right. 00:48:31.37 Adelaide that's two of them that are just kind of at the window and then the heal and the protect like you know will come up maybe but like nine times out of ten you're probably not using those either okay 00:48:34.27 Jala Exactly. And and yeah. 00:48:42.55 Jala Well, what I'll tell you, there's a couple of things i will I will say. 00:48:45.65 Adelaide okay gotcha 00:48:45.64 Jala So first off, in the Sega CD version, the dragon spells are viable and useful. And like once you get those, you don't use anything but those spells, basically, and like your healing spell in the original Sega CD version. 00:48:53.97 Adelaide okay yeah 00:48:56.40 Jala um They're all useful. But you didn't have one that healed everybody. I think they were all some kind of attack spell or something like that. I might be wrong. It's been a minute since I went back and looked at it. 00:49:07.96 Adelaide Yeah. 00:49:09.00 Jala But in Lunar 2, you have those spells, but you can equip them on different characters. 00:49:14.49 Adelaide Oh, interesting. 00:49:15.22 Jala because they're via crests. 00:49:15.37 Adelaide Okay. 00:49:16.88 Jala And because of that, you can place, like say, for example, ah your mage character in Lunar 2, you can give her ah the White Dragon Protect, and she can alternate using the Protect spell on boss battles and using an offensive spell to keep you alive so that your healer can focus on healing in between when the that boss is wrecking your shit because that game has like you know a much more difficult curve to it. 00:49:42.49 Adelaide Yeah. Oh, the other thing that i I wanted to mention, and I don't remember if it's so much in the Sega CD version, because the battle sprites are much more rudimentary, but one of the things that, again, I found really impressive and like 00:49:43.59 Jala so 00:49:58.24 Adelaide innovative about the battle sprites in this in the remake ah at least is like enemies typically even just like rank and file enemies have at least two different like but ah like waiting yeah waiting animations that will that will uh like telegraph uh what they're doing 00:50:11.73 Jala Specials. Yeah. Oh, yeah. 00:50:18.57 Jala What they're gonna do. Mm-hmm. 00:50:20.03 Adelaide um Which is such a like that's so that's so cool and smart and not again Like not really a thing that you see in a lot of games modern games, you know Yeah Right Mm 00:50:29.99 Jala Right. And I think that it was also part of the Sega CD version as well. So, um like, it's not just the bosses that telegraph what they're about to do. It's also the enemies that are on your regular battles. So, like, you know, oh, shit, that thing's about to do an AOE. ah You know, like, you can go and attack that one and hopefully kill it on the next turn before its turn. 00:50:48.73 Adelaide -hmm 00:50:48.93 Jala You know, um things like that. Another thing I wanted to mention about um battle is that Mia, the mage character, is portrayed as being very fragile, like emotionally fragile and soft and gentle, but also physically fragile. 00:50:59.39 Adelaide Mmhmm. 00:51:02.22 Jala And she has the least amount of hit points, and she is the weakest when it comes to attacks. 00:51:05.83 Adelaide Mmhmm. 00:51:06.62 Jala But you can ah yeah equip her with different types of canes. And those canes in the original Sega CD version and in the remake, there are certain ones that have um the abilities to do this, too. 00:51:11.19 Adelaide Aha. 00:51:16.89 Jala They have spells equipped in them. So if you are low on magic, you can just have her toggle to her weapon and use that item in combat and it will give you infinite number of attacks or heals or whatever it is that she has. 00:51:20.67 Adelaide Mmhmm. 00:51:30.14 Jala So um that is also super useful on the original Sega CD. And by the way, you can play anyone can play this game right now on um I think it's retrogames.cc. I will put the link in the show notes. You can play it in your browser. You don't even have to download anything now. And it can save in your browser or save onto your your computer, and you can just play the entire game. So if folks are interested in playing the original Sega CD version, you can do that there. But yeah, so ah one last thing I have to say about the gameplay from the original, and then I'll kind of look through and see if we missed anything on the PS1 section. 00:52:03.66 Jala um So to me, this game is not grindy. 00:52:06.52 Adelaide Mhmm. 00:52:06.81 Jala um Either one of them. 00:52:07.60 Adelaide Mhmm. 00:52:08.60 Jala as long like and In the remake, I will put the little asterisks and say, it's not grindy so long as you are actually clearing all the enemies off the map and not running away from them. 00:52:16.41 Adelaide Yes, yeah. Yeah, they definitely, ah you could definitely, and and this is something that I had in the notes for the PS1 version, but this is like a common thing that working designs did for their American ah like localizations was to tune ah combat up in difficulty. um And what that means is enemies, you know, typically had more health, did more damage, um and gave you less XP and silver as a reward. 00:52:55.57 Adelaide So it does end up being a little bit grindier, um unfortunately, than the original version, which the Sega CD version like you could definitely like you want to be fighting battles. But like you said, since you have battles on the overworld map, um It's a little bit less important to be clearing areas out because you're not like missing it entirely. And also, in my experience, from the way that the overworld map is organized, which is incredibly confusing, you're going to be spending a lot of time wandering around loss. So you're probably going to end up a little overleveled and a little like more wealthy than, you know, probably what the typical, what they tuned it for, you know. 00:53:38.40 Jala Right. So there are a couple of other things I want to mention about that. So um the Sega CD version was not tuned by working designs the same way. ah it i It may have been tuned a little bit, but the difficulty level on the original Sega CD is not like hyped up or anything like that. 00:53:54.06 Adelaide Yeah Right Mm 00:53:54.67 Jala Like in the original Sega CD version, you're not going to have to worry that a regular ass battle is going to kill you. In the remake, there are regular ass battles against regular ass enemies in a normal area that you can be like, damn, I'm getting wiped out. I have to like run away from this battle, hope that they actually successfully run away. 00:54:09.15 Adelaide -hmm 00:54:13.05 Jala And then I have to go to like a goddess shrine and heal because like I don't have any magic or this, that, and the other. 00:54:16.07 Adelaide yeah 00:54:18.96 Jala And it just kind of gets ah kind of egregious at times. And that was like a major ah knock against it where it became irritating. um to do But the thing is, it's it's interesting because when that happened, if you gained a level or two, then that battle went drastically differently and was far more manageable. 00:54:36.97 Adelaide Yeah. Yeah. 00:54:38.54 Jala But it's forcing you to go, oh crap, I have to run away, come back and redo this whole section. It's forcing you to grind. And the original didn't do that. You didn't have any point in the Sega CD version that you needed to do that um because like you were properly leveled for whatever you were doing. 00:54:50.84 Adelaide Yeah. 00:54:54.67 Jala So ah other other kind of notes, the goddess shrines, yeah ah that there used to be more shrines on the overworld map for you to go into. There's no point in having a ah shrine on the overworld map and like an MP shrine to heal at if you're not having battles on the overworld. 00:55:03.89 Adelaide Yeah. 00:55:11.87 Jala So they took them out. 00:55:13.76 Adelaide So i actually, I had a question about those because you have more ah history with the original game. In the Sega Saturn version, you could or Sega CD version, you could also donate money when you're at the shrines. 00:55:27.06 Jala Yeah. 00:55:28.18 Adelaide Is there any purpose to that? Or is it just like a weird thing that you could do? like Is it more of like a narrative consideration? or 00:55:37.35 Jala i I have donated money and I don't remember, like I'm not on this playthrough, but I have donated money in the past and then kept donating money to see if something would happen. 00:55:42.98 Adelaide Yeah. 00:55:47.26 Jala But then like I never saw anything happen. I didn't look up to see if there's something that actually happens or if it's just here, throw your money at the church because you you got healed. 00:55:49.52 Adelaide Okay. 00:55:55.30 Adelaide Yeah. 00:55:56.29 Jala I don't i don't know, actually. 00:55:57.45 Adelaide Okay. 00:55:58.16 Jala um Yeah, some some other things I wanted to to mention, though. ah So some of the dungeons have been shortened, and other dungeons have been considerably lengthened. 00:56:09.32 Adelaide Yeah. 00:56:09.36 Jala But but the designs of the dungeons are vastly different. And I feel like it's really a ah preferential thing as to whether you like the Sega CD iteration of this or the ah remake version of it. Because the Sega CD version, a lot of the dungeons are basically big old mazes that you are going through. 00:56:32.53 Adelaide Yeah. 00:56:33.15 Jala And it's making you go through the maze so that you can level up, right? 00:56:37.72 Adelaide Right. 00:56:38.24 Jala But like you know you have to go wander around to figure out where to go. And um you know sometimes you discover, hooray, I found a chest. And other times you found, oh, hooray, I got another random battle for my trouble and a dead end, right? 00:56:48.11 Adelaide but Right. Uh-huh. 00:56:50.79 Jala But it made you feel like it was a bigger deal to be in that space. And so like when you got to the dragon or you got to the boss or whatever you were doing, it felt cool because you had this more more challenging time getting there. And even if you pull up on your phone or something, or if you happen to have the guidebooks and stuff and you pull up the 00:57:04.23 Adelaide Yeah. 00:57:11.88 Jala um maps of the dungeons it's not any easier it's not it's not an easier even if you have a map so um but in the remake they simplified the dungeons but as a result like they're not interesting to be in for me um they're not interesting spaces there's not a lot that's cool that's going on i mean like yes you have the slight joy of oh this cave looks a little different than the last one and they have different effects on the walls or whatever but like 00:57:17.02 Adelaide Yeah, no, it really isn't. 00:57:32.73 Adelaide Yeah. 00:57:40.61 Jala it's It's interchangeable and forgettable, largely forgettable, and I think that's my gripe about the the remakes dungeons. 00:57:47.30 Adelaide Yeah, it's really weird because like playing them so close together, ah like i I found a lot of the gameplay in the ah Sega CD wanted to be a little bit tedious. but ah It's really weird to see places where like in the remake, they've lengthened dungeons. some Sometimes they're a lot more confusing to navigate. and like i there i don't know From my perspective, I guess it it doesn't feel like there's like an internal logic to it. 00:58:20.06 Adelaide There's just like, this one needs to be one screen bigger. 00:58:20.15 Jala Mm hmm. 00:58:24.57 Adelaide um And the other thing that I think is really disappointing is actually like the um The White Dragon Cave is like harder to navigate, but they have a really interesting like environmental interaction like mechanic in it where you can trick monsters to running into ice blocks to open up new areas for you. 00:58:40.17 Jala Right. Right. 00:58:46.13 Adelaide That literally never happens again. Nothing like that ever happens again. The closest thing that you get to that is like damage floor, and that's it. 00:58:50.54 Jala yeah Yeah. 00:58:54.89 Adelaide They never they never do anything approaching that. in the rest of the game, which I think is really too bad because I think that. 00:59:01.20 Jala it Yeah. because Because that White Dragon Cave, the way that it is in the remake is so much better than the original White Dragon Cave. 00:59:08.79 Adelaide Yeah. 00:59:08.76 Jala And that's like the one instance where I'm like, no, that dungeon is way better. you know That's way better than the version that you had in the Sega CD. so you know But yeah, like they never do that again. 00:59:16.36 Adelaide Yeah. 00:59:19.32 Jala And it's sad. but like there There are a couple of places, like if you're in the Red Dragon Cave, um there's parts where there's like lava flows and you know they shoot and stuff. 00:59:26.87 Adelaide Yeah. 00:59:27.98 Jala But it's it's it's a very limited part, and it's not required for progression through the game. So um you know like I wish that they had implemented more of that creativity. If they had, in those smaller shorter, smaller dungeons, Chef's Kiss. 00:59:37.97 Adelaide Yeah. 00:59:42.46 Adelaide Yeah, act absolutely. 00:59:42.78 Jala That would have been it. that's all like I don't need it to be a maze. I think I'm more tolerant of that because I was playing other stuff that had that kind of bullshit going on. um So like my tolerance for that. like i'm I'm fine with a maze. I'm cool with that. But like you know the the boring dungeon, like i'm i I check out. so you know um But again, pick your poison. 00:59:59.82 Adelaide Yeah. 01:00:03.28 Jala Everybody's got different different ways that their brains work and different things they prefer. So ah but yeah, like if they had if they had done more like the White Dragon Cave in the remake and done that for like all the dungeons, I would have been like so happy. 01:00:15.23 Adelaide Yeah, me too. 01:00:15.76 Jala So. So yeah, another note is the secondary villain of both games, Zenobia, has the role split in the PlayStation 1 version between three different characters. They split her out and because they expanded her role in the story. So ah originally, she's just kind of like a footnote character that comes in late in the game and is kind of like um that like the the the Bond villainess or whatever, you know, who just kind of shows up late in there just to be boobies. 01:00:45.15 Adelaide Yeah. 01:00:49.37 Jala You know, and that's it. 01:00:50.40 Adelaide Yeah. 01:00:50.96 Jala That's it. That's all she's doing, you know, and then like in the remake, they because they expanded her too much, they were like, this is far too much legwork for one character to be doing. 01:00:52.70 Adelaide Uh-huh. 01:01:00.42 Jala Let's split her into three different people. So that way, she's not complex at all. She has one one thing going. Each one of these has one thing going. 01:01:08.51 Adelaide Uh-huh. 01:01:09.38 Jala And um I feel like they really could have made this one character who would have been hands down the best fucking character in the game. 01:01:15.79 Adelaide Yeah, at the there's so much. So instead of having one evil character that's purpose is to be boobies, you now have that character split into two characters whose purpose is to be boobies and one character whose purpose is to be a sympathetic villain. 01:01:31.55 Jala Right, right. And then like there there is one character, not Zenobia, but the other booby character that's like, you know that character doesn't have a unique personality. There's not a personality there at all. 01:01:41.04 Adelaide No. 01:01:42.99 Jala There's not a personality. This could just be also Zenobia. 01:01:46.61 Adelaide Yeah. 01:01:46.76 Jala There could have been two. And then that still would have given a little bit more action to Zenobia and made them both ah maybe a little bit more interesting. 01:01:56.59 Adelaide Yeah, because like. 01:01:56.56 Jala But I still feel like it could have just been Sinobi and it would have been okay. And it would like for for her to have conflict within herself as a human thing to do. 01:02:00.31 Adelaide Yeah. 01:02:03.85 Jala Every other character is given humanity, right? 01:02:06.85 Adelaide Yeah, that's true. 01:02:06.90 Jala Why is she not? She can't be complex. Everybody else can have conflicting emotions, but not her. 01:02:13.16 Adelaide Yeah, because both her and and Royce are pretty like one note, just kind of like sarcastic and evil and and boobies. 01:02:13.29 Jala So. 01:02:17.00 Jala Yes. 01:02:20.88 Jala Yeah. Yeah. 01:02:23.34 Adelaide And Fayshia, the other character ah that takes on that sort of role, gets to be complex, hesitant. She gets a bonafide like hero turn. You know, she actually gets like a character arc. 01:02:37.00 Jala Yeah. So one thing I do want to say too, is that the way that they translated her name when they brought her over to America is is kind of like very distinct because in Japanese it's fesiya, or fesiya, fesiya. And um the way that you can spell that is fesiya. 01:02:58.68 Adelaide Oh, like face. 01:02:58.91 Jala But instead of, instead of facia, they put facia, like a two time two face, whatever. 01:03:04.68 Adelaide Right. 01:03:06.36 Jala And that makes a big difference to the character and how you perceive that character. So yeah, yeah. 01:03:10.96 Adelaide That's interesting. 01:03:12.59 Jala So that that's kind of an interesting just side note I wanted to throw out there. But yeah, like of them, my favorite design is Royce. So even though she doesn't need to exist, like I like her to look, but 01:03:23.24 Adelaide Yeah, she's got all the cool like body art and tattoos and stuff. 01:03:27.55 Jala Well, yeah, they all actually do, but, uh, Phacia or, uh, Phacia, she is covered up a lot. And then Zenobia, you just see it on her boobies. 01:03:34.71 Adelaide Well, yes. 01:03:36.60 Jala So, you know. 01:03:37.61 Adelaide Yeah, well, you know, Fayshia is the, ah you know, holy cleric, so she's not allowed to show skin. 01:03:43.00 Jala Yeah. Except she does with them legs now. Anyway. All right. So yeah, let's let's move on to graphics and look of things shall we so ah Yeah, the sprite graphics were on par with the kinds of graphics you would see in other games of this era But the animated cutscenes were really the place where both of these iterations of this game really stand out visually um Yeah, and ah Yes, go for it 01:04:04.80 Adelaide Yeah, I agree. um 01:04:10.34 Adelaide I was just going to say, like again, as a person who has ah more nostalgia for the PS1 version coming back to the Sega CD version, obviously, i I was aware that they had the animated cutscenes and the voice acting. But like it really is very impressive. just like Even if the animation isn't doing much, right like you were saying, it's mostly just a camera pan over a solid image with a moving mouth. like Even that paired with a little bit of voice acting is pretty dang impressive for the time. 01:04:43.24 Adelaide um Almost every character gets like a every major character gets like an intro like animation that like introduces them. 01:04:49.56 Jala yeah 01:04:53.34 Adelaide um you know There's voice acting in the game. The sprites, they're like smaller and simpler, more simple than the ah than the PS1 version, obviously, but they're still surprisingly like communicative. like It's not like they're hard to read or anything. 01:05:10.90 Jala Mm hmm. Right, right. And it is funny because like um I'm I'm fully aware I played other Sega CD games at the time and you know, I played the Sega CD version of this game so many times. So like I know exactly like I could I could recite for you all the lines in the freaking thing because I heard them so much. But um I was actually expecting you to go, it was hard to go back to the Sega CD version because it's not as pretty because it doesn't have all the cool animations and stuff. cause like Especially if that's a version you're introduced to originally. and Then you go back to the Sega CD, I can understand it being super rough for various reasons because you don't have um as much of any of that stuff. and Granted, of the time and of the the hardware at the time that they were working with and so on and so forth, but still, 01:06:00.29 Jala You know, like it's not going to have the same kind of impressive quality to the the gameplay as, for example, the nostalgia I have of this is my first CD based, you know, animated type game. Like everybody played Sewer Shark. That was the first game I had in Sega CD. But that's FMV. 01:06:17.06 Adelaide ah 01:06:18.07 Jala And I had played stuff like Myst before that was, you know, like the FMV style. 01:06:21.15 Adelaide Yeah. 01:06:22.39 Jala But I'd never seen an animated one. And I was like, this is so freaking cool. Like it was so cool. and ah Well, we'll kind of segue into the sound design because I have to talk about the opening. 01:06:32.89 Adelaide Mhm. 01:06:33.33 Jala um So the opening of the Sega CD version is drastically different from the opening of the remake. um Again, because the original Sega CD version is more ah adventure and action and and kind of shonen-based stuff. 01:06:40.33 Adelaide Mhm. 01:06:46.03 Jala um You know, it has love element to it, but that's not the only that's not the primary thrust of the thing. So ah the opening is this power ballad of like 80s with the wailing guitars kind of fighting through the darkness opening song with like crashing lightning and. 01:06:55.58 Adelaide right 01:07:03.22 Adelaide ahha 01:07:03.66 Jala all kind of like panning of all of your characters and it really gets your like for me the first time I watched it I was dumbfounded and I i was okay even at the time when I got this game in 93 I was in embarrassed by it because it was so cheesy but I loved it and I was I was shy because I just watched it over and over and over again but I was just like 01:07:13.97 Adelaide Right. Yeah. 01:07:25.31 Jala you know My face was turning red, imagining anybody else watching this with me and going, what is this? you know But I loved it. I loved it, even though it was cheesy, cheesy. um And it really just made me want to play the game and want to go through and see all these characters and figure out what's going on and all of this stuff. 01:07:38.95 Adelaide Yeah 01:07:42.67 Jala And and it really just um gives you a great overview of the entire game. And the remake version has this lovey sing-song soft and and like whimsical uplifting ballad of ah like a love song kind of thing going. 01:07:53.85 Adelaide Mm-hmm 01:07:59.89 Adelaide yeah 01:08:00.63 Jala And it focuses mostly on Alex and Luna, the primary couple in the game. And it kind of shows the other stuff going on in the background a little bit. But like the only thing you're going to really remember if you watch that opening, and it's been a while, is Alex and Luna holding hands. And there's a dragon and some feathers and a lot of so like happy song sounds and you know beautiful blue sky looking over the green grass. 01:08:18.39 Adelaide Uh-huh. 01:08:24.35 Jala And that's about it, right? So i mean like I'll have to put links in the show notes so you can see, if you have not seen you the Sega CD opening, what that looks like. 01:08:27.10 Adelaide Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 01:08:33.47 Jala It's very different. So, um, and, and for a long time, like I was, I was kind of shell shocked when I turned on the game and I had got a whole new system just to play this game. 01:08:38.69 Adelaide Yeah. 01:08:43.05 Jala And I was waiting for the total remake of the fighting through the darkness theme. 01:08:47.44 Adelaide yeah 01:08:47.59 Jala And then like, I got Subasa or wings, which is the opening of the the remake. 01:08:51.29 Adelaide Yeah. 01:08:52.42 Jala And I'm like, wow, what is, what is, what is this? 01:08:54.41 Adelaide ah 01:08:56.10 Jala What is this? This is not what I was getting for. Oh my God. What happened to the other song? 01:09:00.81 Adelaide Yeah. 01:09:01.43 Jala I was looking for the re redo, you know? Um, but like. the fighting through the darkness as much as I love it would not fit the tone of what they're doing with the remake and 01:09:11.10 Adelaide yeah 01:09:12.43 Jala something that both of us talked about was that the way that Subasa's melody line is, that main same melody is used as like a refrain throughout the entire soundtrack, you know, and so like the entire soundtrack is more cohesive because it's only Noriyuki Iwadare working on it. 01:09:25.34 Adelaide Mm hmm. 01:09:29.76 Jala The original game had several composers working on it so um it's a little bit more disjointed but some of the bangers from the Sega CD track, because I actually overall prefer the the stock standard music from the original game. I love all of the vocal songs in the remake, but I prefer some of the the other tracks that never were in the remake because like those are ones that were done by other composers. 01:09:49.24 Adelaide Mhm. 01:09:56.69 Jala so like When Noriyuki Iwadare was doing it, he had to make new tracks. 01:10:01.31 Adelaide Yeah. 01:10:01.42 Jala He couldn't use them exactly. so um So anyway, the original was Noriyuki Iwadare, Hiroshi Fujioka, Yoshiyaki Kubodera, and Isao Mizoguchi. So like there were several composers working on that original track. um Not as cohesive, still pretty cool. I feel like um there's there's more music that gets you going, you know like gets you get you you know like in in in the moment, in the game. ah than in the remake. 01:10:33.48 Jala And it's kind of funny. I actually really love both soundtracks, but when I came back to the PS1 version to play it again for the show, I was kind of like, wow, this music is just not popping the way that I remembered it popping. 01:10:37.62 Adelaide Hmm. Interesting. 01:10:47.84 Jala What was it like for you, Addy? Because um I'm curious to see what you thought about the the original original soundtrack and like when you revisited PS1. 01:10:56.57 Adelaide so like the um i I think since the PS1 version is so nostalgic for me, like I remember ah like the this Silver Star Complete edition like came with a separate ah like soundtrack CD that had the vocal tracks and some of the incidental music from the game. um And I would just listen to that over and over and over again. so ah like That's definitely the version of the soundtrack that lives in my memory a lot more. um it It was always cool to hear ah you know songs that I recognized in the Sega CD version. I could be like, oh, that's the first pass at the battle theme. Or like, you know oh, this is this is so similar to this town theme from the remake or whatever. But I think um what 01:11:52.35 Adelaide And I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing, but the thing that stands out to me about ah about the Sega CD version is all of the ah sound fonts or the instrument like sounds on it ah sound very like stock, which is not necessarily a bad thing. 01:11:53.02 Jala Mm hmm. 01:12:13.19 Adelaide ah Sometimes can be really charming in games, but they do really sound like just just very standard like instrument sounds for the time. Whereas obviously on the PlayStation, since you you know you have that higher ah fidelity possibility on a bigger storage medium, the music for that game is either like done with really ah really well done like synthesizers or is probably like actual real instruments. 01:12:43.94 Jala Right. 01:12:44.00 Adelaide And I think it's it's funny because usually usually I tend towards the more ah like obviously midi sounding stuff because I think that there's like charm to that, and especially in old video games like PC games and stuff like that. But in this specific case, I think I i do really like the PS1 version better for music. 01:13:06.66 Jala Right. And um so the original Sega CD version, definitely the hardware and the the space limitations and stuff play a part in what they were and were not able you know to do. Say, for example, stuff like Kazenou Nocturne or Wind's Nocturne, aka the book song, like there's no way that could have fit on the original 01:13:25.85 Adelaide Oh, yeah. 01:13:26.32 Jala Even though they also did a whole overhaul of the story to make that happen in the first place, um it is one of the most memorable parts of the first lunar for most people, even though it didn't even exist in the original version. um You know, like you get a totally different kind of scenario in the original version. 01:13:44.39 Adelaide Yeah. 01:13:44.60 Jala so um and And we'll get there when we get to the spoiler wall, which is rapidly approaching us. But um also I will say too, if you have any kind of um version of a thing that you started out with listening to, you most likely are not going to like other versions as much. And I just say that because say, for example, I love and we were just talking about this on the ah Legend of Zelda cartoon episode here recently. 01:14:04.77 Adelaide It's true. 01:14:09.91 Adelaide Mm 01:14:13.64 Jala I love the original Legend of Zelda soundtrack. 01:14:17.17 Adelaide -hmm 01:14:17.40 Jala They remade a lot of the soundtrack for the show. um But like I do not approve of the dungeon theme that they have there, because it doesn't have the beginning part of the dungeon theme, which is the part I really like, where it's like the higher pitched doo doo doo doo doo doo doo. 01:14:27.53 Adelaide Ah-ha hmm 01:14:32.10 Jala It doesn't have that. it's It's redone in a way that it doesn't have the same kind of cadence or or feeling to it. It doesn't feel as punchy. And like I just don't like it as much. 01:14:39.67 Adelaide Yeah. 01:14:41.10 Jala um So, so for me, here's the thing on the PlayStation one soundtrack when I was replaying it seemed more like background elements that I didn't even pay attention to a lot of the time. 01:14:53.63 Adelaide Gotcha. 01:14:54.10 Jala Except for the things where it's just but like you're focusing on it like during the animated cut scenes where you have the music going. 01:15:00.74 Adelaide Mm 01:15:02.07 Jala um And you're supposed to be really paying attention to it. But like during the rest of the game, it's very forgettable to me in a lot of ways. 01:15:05.30 Adelaide -hmm. 01:15:08.99 Jala ah The original game, it just kind of feels, I don't know, punchier and it might be because it is those um kind of more MIDI sounding. elements. I'm not sure exactly, but for some reason that one's punchier to me. um I like the iterations of the songs that they do in the remake, ah like the re-tailoring and, you know, all of that that they do. um Although I will say the Grindries remake sound where they added the little voices and stuff in there. It sounds so much like you can just see like the YMCA a or other ah very, very flamboyant gay men doing like with Leather DAddys and the whole nine with the whips and like, you know, like this whole thing going on with the Grindry theme in particular, which I'm going to have to now link in the show notes so people can hear that. 01:15:38.93 Adelaide Aha. Mhm. 01:15:48.40 Adelaide Aha. Yes, absolutely. 01:15:56.07 Jala um it's It's wild the way that they remade it. I like it. I like it. ah you know But like that's the only thing that i can I can have in my head now when I'm i'm listening to it. Because that's what it sounds like to me. 01:16:08.53 Adelaide That's fair. 01:16:09.93 Jala oh 01:16:10.79 Adelaide And to be fair, I feel like that track particularly stands out as being really unique because there's a lot of elements going on in it, right? 01:16:19.02 Jala Yeah. 01:16:19.83 Adelaide You've got the like weird whip progression percussion, you've got the grunting men, but there are also like... 01:16:27.14 Jala There's like helicopter noises and like steam. 01:16:28.62 Adelaide Yeah, there's a lot of like industrial elements going on in the background that just kind of form a white white noise. 01:16:34.25 Jala dem Yeah, like steam and hammers and and all kinds of stuff happening, like layer over layer over layer going. 01:16:38.92 Adelaide Yeah. 01:16:43.75 Jala um so So it's not, so really like the way that I want to say it is like in the Sega CD version, what I feel like that that I love that I feel like, you know, I'm not getting out of that PS1 version are just those tracks that I really fell in love with in the original that don't exist in the remake. 01:16:43.93 Adelaide Aha. 01:16:53.79 Adelaide Mm hmm. 01:17:00.45 Jala Like say, for example, when you go to the town of safe, there is a particular 01:17:02.95 Adelaide Mm 01:17:04.48 Jala ah song that plays in the original game, and I love that particular song, especially the first minute or so of it. 01:17:07.17 Adelaide hmm. Hmm. 01:17:11.96 Jala And it's in a few different towns throughout the game, but it's not on the remake because one of the other composers had worked on that. so um you know But I miss that theme so much. 01:17:19.43 Adelaide Gotcha. 01:17:22.47 Jala I was like, oh, I'm going to safe. I can't wait to hear the remake. Oh. 01:17:26.27 Adelaide Yeah. And the one thing I will say about the remake is there's more like reusing of music than I would like. 01:17:36.70 Jala Yeah. 01:17:37.14 Adelaide like for for the For the time period and like you know the storage medium that they're using, I feel like, you know obviously, composer restrictions ah set aside. They could have had a unique song for at least every town, maybe every special dungeon. you know and then Because there's a lot of reused town music. A lot of the dungeons are the same theme, which is actually maybe one of the worst themes in the game, which is just the like, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh. 01:18:02.04 Jala Yeah. 01:18:12.87 Jala Yep. 01:18:13.80 Adelaide And it's just that over and over and over and over again. 01:18:17.48 Jala Yeah, yeah. 01:18:19.14 Adelaide So, you know, that would have been one area where I would have liked to see more diversity with that. 01:18:25.42 Jala Well, especially since this game was multiple discs and so was the remake of Lunar 2. So ah on these remakes, they were already using multiple discs to get the entire game in. 01:18:30.90 Adelaide Uh 01:18:36.46 Jala And the game ah disc switch is actually fairly far into the game. 01:18:36.70 Adelaide -huh. Mm 01:18:40.98 Jala They could fit a whole hell of a lot on one disc. They could have just made that switch a little bit sooner and put more stuff in there and it would have been fine. 01:18:44.72 Adelaide -hmm. Yeah, that was one part that really like shocked me, is ah like i I was so surprised when the disc switch came, because it comes like maybe three-fourths of the way through the game. 01:19:01.43 Jala Yeah. 01:19:01.90 Adelaide And like to be fair, that back half of the game does have probably as much, if not more, animations in it than the first three-fourths of the game. But like still, It's so late. like i think I feel like they could have like swapped disks dead in the middle because the game does have a pretty like solid midpoint ah to it. 01:19:23.21 Jala Yeah. 01:19:24.62 Adelaide So like yeah, they could have easily ah split much sooner and had more disk space to play around with. 01:19:31.67 Jala Well, to add a few songs in would not have been that much more space. you know It's not like adding animations. This is adding just tracks of music. 01:19:39.83 Adelaide Yeah. 01:19:41.36 Jala That that would not have taken that much space. But you know um for what we get, ah the the main thing is that I miss some of the 01:19:45.01 Adelaide Yeah. 01:19:50.85 Jala songs that did not come over to the PS1. Otherwise, ah the PS1 version is soundly, ah the superior soundtrack, but again, there are some some caveats to that in my opinion of certain tracks that did not come over. um But the interesting thing is that on the PS1 soundtrack, they included on the disc A copy of Fighting in the Darkness from the original game, even though it has no part to play in the remake at all. 01:20:12.85 Adelaide Yeah. 01:20:17.92 Jala ah Working Designs added that song in probably for the people who played the original Sega CD, who were looking for it, who didn't get it. 01:20:24.41 Adelaide Yeah, I'm sure it was added there as an as like an Easter egg, but ah I will say, and I know we talked about this before, ah it was really confusing to me because like I'd played through maybe a third of the game, like a couple of different times, but never all the way through the game. But I had the soundtrack, and I'd listened to the soundtrack all the way through. So I was always waiting for, like, Fighting Through the Darkness to come up, and it never actually does. It was very strange. 01:20:52.73 Jala Yeah, yeah. So well, as much as um we don't like the fact that working designs, oh, yeah, we'll we'll have to talk localization just real shortly here. 01:21:03.20 Adelaide Yeah. 01:21:03.89 Jala um and Working designs, the main things that most people don't like about it is that their localizations leave something to be desired. 01:21:10.15 Adelaide Yeah 01:21:13.89 Jala ah they are very They make it very, very dated and very rough to kind of go back to. 01:21:17.77 Adelaide Yeah 01:21:18.69 Jala um But also the ramping up, ah particularly on the PS1 version, I don't really think that there was much, if any, um major tweaking going on in the Sega CD version. But in the the remake of of this game, definitely they did some stuff where like you could party wipe on like a regular ass battle regularly. 01:21:30.67 Adelaide yeah 01:21:37.58 Adelaide yeah 01:21:37.88 Jala yeah So. 01:21:39.35 Adelaide i Yeah and I don't think, see the thing for me is like if they wanted to tune up the enemy damage that's fine if they had left the yeah all of the other stuff the same or they also increased like the rewards but specifically like tuning up the monster and tuning down the rewards is a very very bad idea and it just it's it's just frustrating. 01:21:48.35 Jala The hit points and stuff, yeah. 01:21:55.10 Jala Right. 01:22:03.37 Jala Right. Right. Absolutely. So as for the localization, one very first note I will say is that Working Designs had its particular touch on both games, but the original Sega CD version had less. 01:22:17.93 Adelaide Yes. 01:22:17.98 Jala It it is ah far less working designs charm, um whatever you feel about working designs charm. 01:22:25.22 Adelaide Right. 01:22:25.95 Jala um It is less of that. It has it, but it's not like beat you over the head with it every single time you go look at anything. ah And then the little nuggets where they do have the little punchy dialogue or the the dated references or something. 01:22:33.47 Adelaide Yeah. 01:22:39.82 Jala um They're like little random encounters in the town, but like talking to all the NPCs in the original game feels like a delight to do. Like I actually like going around and talking to all the people because sometimes you hear some funny ass shit or there's ah an exchange that happens and it's really great. But then like they dialed it up way past 11, maybe up to 14 when they did the PS1 version. And then it's like, it gets 01:23:02.49 Adelaide Yeah. 01:23:03.75 Jala tedious to me. 01:23:05.60 Adelaide Yeah, i so like it's funny because like working designs, before I really understood the difference between like a localization and a straight translation, seems like one of the most obvious like examples of specifically a localization. 01:23:18.89 Jala Yeah. 01:23:22.25 Adelaide right They're looking at Japanese text and they're trying to take things that quote-unquote don't make sense or wouldn't catch for American audience and find like a either like a comparable reference or like a comparable turn of phrase and like try to do sort of like a little bit of cultural matching. What that means though is you have very strange instances of characters making reference to pop culture things that 01:23:56.85 Adelaide in no way shape or form exist in the world. so like So like you have a character that's literally saying lines out of Star Wars ah which like is funny. it's It's funny to be like, haha, that's a Star Wars. But like functionally, it doesn't make any sense. It would have been like just as good for that character to be like, oh, be careful. People are really drunk in that bar. like It's a super dangerous place. like You don't have to say like hive of scum and villainy. Or there's like another place where like you're talking to an NPC and like you know ah the the NPC is like, like, oh, blah, blah, blah. 01:24:27.30 Jala Brave. 01:24:35.59 Adelaide He says something about gnawl. And like, his his reply is to be like, oh, yeah, i got I guess you got to make sure to eat your Wheaties so you grow up big and strong. 01:24:44.64 Jala Mm hmm. 01:24:45.47 Adelaide And then like, now is our frosted mini-weeds a thing in the world of lunar? Probably not. But like, we're talking about them. It's this weird, like, immersion breaking almost which like I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing and in fact now coming back to the game like it's definitely like that's part of the charm right like the the localization is so uniquely its own special thing that like that's part of the charm for the game to me but like I could definitely see 01:25:23.37 Adelaide Uh, that being really annoying to other people. 01:25:25.56 Jala Yeah, like I don't mind that they have the anachronistic or, or you know, like it completely has nothing to do with this world whatsoever, but it's still in there. 01:25:35.51 Adelaide Uh-huh. 01:25:35.77 Jala Like Nall talking about the Tootsie Roll Pop, you know, or whatever. 01:25:39.62 Adelaide Yeah. 01:25:39.74 Jala That's that stupid owl. 01:25:39.98 Adelaide Yeah. 01:25:40.82 Jala Like, whatever. Like, um I don't mind those things being in there. um That doesn't bother me so much. But the frequency at which it happens in the remake specifically, 01:25:50.23 Adelaide Uh-huh. 01:25:51.54 Jala is just i I got to the point where I stopped talking to people in town because I didn't want to hear it. I didn't want to hear it. 01:25:56.75 Adelaide it 01:25:57.34 Jala I was like, i'm I'm done with whatever y'all are going off about. 01:25:57.57 Adelaide Yeah. 01:26:00.05 Jala like you know Now, if you do that and you don't talk to anybody else, then it's a fine level. 01:26:05.07 Adelaide Uh-huh. 01:26:05.38 Jala It's a fine level. 01:26:06.13 Adelaide Well, and it's funny. 01:26:06.17 Jala I think they just but to put too many of it, I think is is for me. 01:26:09.28 Adelaide Yeah. 01:26:10.14 Jala um 01:26:11.00 Adelaide And it's funny. It feels like that um Like the original design decision was like NPCs in town exist to point you to the next direction or like give you a little bit of backstory. But like in this game, it feels like ah they they followed that design principle that's like, you know, every piece of a dialogue is a chance to tell a joke, right? And they really like took that to heart because literally every person that you talk to has a joke to say to you every single time. 01:26:42.26 Jala Right, and that's that's what it is in the remake in the original version, you could walk around town and sometimes you'd get witty rep report or whatever, but um ah other times you would get, um you know, actual information telling the backstory of this world, or you would even have like, 01:26:45.45 Adelaide Yeah. Uh huh. 01:27:00.73 Jala instances of different NPCs telling you, Oh, my daughter went to X place. I'm worried about her. And then you can find that daughter later on and then like report back to the father, like the this original game and the the remake a little bit there, but the original game more so. 01:27:08.85 Adelaide Yeah. 01:27:15.49 Jala um You get extra new dialogue when you go back to places. 01:27:19.72 Adelaide Mm hmm. 01:27:19.73 Jala If you go back to different towns after you're done in that area and you report back in, sometimes they have different dialogue for you, especially as different things are happening in the world. And so like you know it actually rewards you going back and looking back at all the different areas in the game and things. 01:27:30.42 Adelaide Yeah. 01:27:35.92 Jala And that's something that isn't like it's it's not as prevalent in the remake version. 01:27:40.42 Adelaide yeah 01:27:40.49 Jala um And then again like um you don't get as much of like the cool Backstory or like the instances of like you see other people living their lives in this world It's not just every NPC exists to point you in the direction, you know, um or every NPC exists to be a joke, you know um It actually made it feel more more lived-in of a world and stuff. 01:27:50.17 Adelaide Yeah. 01:27:55.63 Adelaide yeah 01:28:00.18 Jala So So yeah, but um I and I think 01:28:02.98 Adelaide yeah 01:28:04.86 Jala that I don't know if that's because um in the remake, um that's how they like they were working off of the original Japanese dialogue, and that was so jokey. I do know that um the the head producer of the game for game arts, ah just from talking from Elman, who Elman Dean taught the lead creator and designer for Godshard Chronicles, which is in process. 01:28:29.79 Adelaide Yeah. 01:28:30.73 Jala I did do an interview with him. I've chatted with him variously, but on that episode, he had mentioned that um the guy who is like the head producer and stuff from the game arts, whatever, or Studio Alex or whatever, um that guy is just a funny guy. So that made me start wondering how much of the original game had a bunch of jokes in it. I don't know, I actually don't know what the original version was like and if it was super serious or if it was, you know, ah just as jokey, but just in a different way. 01:28:51.25 Adelaide yeah 01:29:02.52 Jala But that made me kind of question it, um just because like I do have, I do have the remake version anyway. um on the Sega Saturn, but as I mentioned on the level, I haven't mentioned on this show, but on the level, um my Sega Saturn memory card decided to die with all of my data with it and took everything down in a flaming mess when I was in the middle of trying to play Shining Force 3 for upcoming episode. 01:29:19.97 Adelaide Yeah. 01:29:25.28 Adelaide Right. 01:29:26.65 Jala So i I don't know that I can get anywhere in the original Japanese version to find out, ah to get enough for into the game to ah see that. 01:29:32.17 Adelaide Yeah. 01:29:36.30 Jala So ah you know that that it would have to be like me looking up on the internet and seeing if there's a straight translation. But anyhow, anyhow, I think that's about all I have for the generalization, generalized section. 01:29:49.80 Adelaide Yeah. 01:29:51.83 Jala Addy. What about the like, so, um, I know you would recommend this game to somebody who likes JRPGs. 01:29:53.03 Adelaide Yes. 01:29:58.25 Jala Uh, that's pretty much like, if you don't like JRPGs, you're not going to play this game. 01:29:58.52 Adelaide Oh, yeah. 01:30:01.96 Jala So that's pretty much it for the recommendations. 01:30:02.52 Adelaide Yeah. 01:30:04.56 Jala But what I'm going to ask you is like, what, what are your kind of overall feelings about the original Sega CD version and the PS one remake version, um, having gone back and actually finished the remake and having played the Sega CD version for the first time, like what are, what are your general impressions about them? 01:30:20.37 Adelaide um Again, I want to hammer home just how impressive on a technical level the Sega CD version is. like I know like as ah as a person who like the PlayStation was more of a cultural reference, because I never really had a Sega console, um like it was like notable at the time for PlayStation games to have animated cutscenes. Thinking about well, Lunar and like ah Tales of Destiny, I remember being having like anime cutscenes and that being like a really big deal, but like to have 01:30:56.00 Adelaide Like the animated sequences in this game and the voice acting, you know, all of the presentation elements is really impressive. um My main gripe is it feels really bogged down by the like quote unquote old JRPG-ness of it, where it is It is an old feeling game, right? They're not going out of their way to tell you ah any sort of information about any of the items, the spells, any of that stuff, right? That's all going to be in the game manual, not in the game. ah Where things are on the map. I mean, I guess you talked to people in town, but like, that's not always reliable. So you're like wandering all over the place. I don't know. 01:31:43.56 Adelaide For as much as I liked it, ah I think it's it would be hard for me to recommend that over the PlayStation version, because I feel like in general the PlayStation version ah is a lot more polished, a lot more accessible, except for in in the combat difficulty, which is unfortunately the thing, that that sort of hump that you have to get over. um So but like in terms of storytelling in terms of characters in terms of plot like I would say anybody that like is an anime fan and like 01:32:20.20 Adelaide is interested in video games you know would probably have a really good time with this game. Because I think the thing that sort of lives in my heart about the remake is it feels like such a, for better and worse, but mostly for better, it feels like such a time capsule of like anime of the time. you know it It feels like in the in the way the characters are written, in the dialogue, even in the voice acting, which is all sorts of varying qualities, ah 01:32:47.48 Jala Right. 01:32:48.58 Adelaide You know, it just, I don't know, it's it's really cool to have that as a little like piece of time that you can go back and revisit over and over again. 01:32:58.47 Jala Right. Right. So for me, um having a preference for the Sega CD version, I think for me now, now, when I say I have a preference for the Sega CD version and that that's the version that I say would be my favorite more than the remake, I used to kind of lump them together and say both of them are my favorite, like that that they occupy the same space for me because there are things that I like better about what they're doing in the remake. um There are things that I like better in the original version, um just in terms of ah what kind of a narrative they're trying to give. right like I prefer the more adventure-oriented, not like everybody trying to couple up kind of thing that they're doing in the remake. 01:33:40.17 Jala um I prefer it more balanced. like Those elements were there, but they weren't like the primary focus of everything going on in the original game. And I liked that about that game. um Because the characters are younger, and like this is a budding new new feeling for them. And they probably are going to get together, but like they're they're too young to be like actually doing all that. 01:33:55.52 Adelaide Yeah. 01:33:59.71 Jala So like you know that's not like the main main thing going on here. um i I like the fact that all the characters have such strong uh sense of self and they they give you so much of themselves all the different characters do to the point that like it's not just oh that's the character with this color hair that has the big sword or whatever it's not that it's like no you know all about that guy um and uh we'll we'll get into it when we get into the spoiler section but ah some of the characters really kind of got like overhauled in a way that like turned them up to a a level that i stopped liking you know as well uh from the original 01:34:09.69 Adelaide yeah 01:34:19.47 Adelaide Yeah. 01:34:35.62 Adelaide Yeah, that's fair. 01:34:37.20 Jala But in either way, in either case, um like I like all of that that characterization. Those characters feel like real people that you're on an adventure with. ah You laugh and you cry with them, that kind of thing. And they really filled that space for me in that time frame in the age that I was when I played this originally, ah especially Lunar 2, which we'll get to eventually. But um So, for me, it's more like if you like the the animation and the kind of thing that lunar is doing just overall, then the if you prefer more like adventure style stories and you can also deal with 01:35:15.11 Jala old JRPG bullshit, ah then yes, I feel like some the Sega CD version is a version that exists for some people who have certain types of tolerances. 01:35:21.39 Adelaide Mm hmm. Mm hmm. 01:35:24.72 Jala ah The one that will go down better for most people is the PS1 version, but it is eternally to my sadness that not very many people have played the original Sega CD version because it is its own animal. And you know again, both of these two versions have their strengths and weaknesses. um But the animated cutscenes in the remake really push it over the top for most people. um Because like when you see some of the certain things that happen in the animations and you have those moments of kind of breathless anticipation of the ball about to drop, ah you know and you get to see that on the screen ah actually happening, not just like the sounds and like here's a a little 01:35:59.96 Adelaide Yeah. 01:36:06.80 Jala um image with some slight animation to it on the screen. 01:36:11.01 Adelaide Yeah. 01:36:11.49 Jala you like It makes a difference, the the presentation difference, even though ah they could not, with the hardware and everything, do it back in the Sega CD era. So um either way, like i still I still would recommend, if people are interested in Lunar as ah as a thing, to go back and look at the original version of it, because it is it is a different intent of the thing, a different feeling of a thing than what they're doing with the remake. If the remake is your jam, you probably aren't going to like the original very much. 01:36:41.86 Jala So um you know like it just just depends upon like what you're in for. 01:36:46.06 Adelaide Yeah, I agree. 01:36:46.85 Jala So so yeah, ah with that being said, we shall erect the spoiler wall. 01:36:52.67 Adelaide Yay. 01:36:52.89 Jala Yay! Erection, erection. 01:36:58.34 Jala and And this is the part where I'm going to put the little footnote to Dave, and I'm going to pause, and I'm going to go to the bathroom. 01:37:40.30 Adelaide Okay. 01:38:33.73 Jala I'm back. 01:38:35.01 Adelaide Welcome back. 01:38:36.03 Jala Yay. 01:38:36.23 Adelaide um Just as ah as a question, and not that we're necessarily running up on, um I'm worried about time, but how how much longer do you think we have on this? 01:38:38.81 Jala Yes. 01:38:42.99 Jala yeah 01:38:47.59 Adelaide like like how ah How into like story discussion do you want to go? 01:38:54.27 Jala We're not going to be going each individual little play by play through all of this. Um, I will be summarizing it a little bit quicker than what it has here, but I just want to make sure that I have this information in my head. 01:39:04.85 Adelaide For sure. 01:39:04.87 Jala So, you know, that's why there's so many notes. So you don't have to worry about like, um, it taking two more hours or something like that. 01:39:12.48 Adelaide OK, cool. 01:39:12.67 Jala So, okay. 01:39:13.59 Adelaide um My only concern is like I have a thing to do with my parents at 3. 01:39:14.63 Jala Yes. 01:39:17.82 Adelaide So if we could be, ah right now it is 1.30. 01:39:18.38 Jala Okay. What, what time is it now for you? 01:39:22.87 Adelaide So we're not you know we're not close to that being an issue, but OK. 01:39:22.93 Jala Okay. 01:39:26.15 Jala Okay, yes. Okay, let's head on. 01:39:30.77 Jala Okay, so we are back and we are fully erect. It is exciting. Wait, I mean the spoiler wall. The spoiler wall is fully erect. Oh, I have slipped into working designs mode already. 01:39:41.88 Adelaide That's right, yeah. 01:39:42.09 Jala Yay. 01:39:44.40 Jala Okay, so let's begin talking about the game's story. We will start with the Sega CD version and we will insert where there are differences in the PlayStation 1 version. so ah When you start this game out, you are Alex. You are in the sleepy little town of Berg, which couldn't be more aptly named. And you are there at Dragon Master Dines. monument ah it's a place where the former dragon master who everybody assumes has died ah we don't really know he just kind of vanished one day um anyway like his monument you go there every day you dream of becoming a dragon master this that and the other you are there with your flying cat and all who can talk and nobody thinks this is weird but you know that's cool i mean you've got monsters i mean what's another weird little monster guy 01:40:09.18 Adelaide yeah 01:40:16.44 Adelaide Uh-huh. 01:40:31.11 Adelaide Yeah. 01:40:33.70 Adelaide Uh-huh. 01:40:33.81 Jala You know, so ah your little buddy Raimus comes up and tells you, hey, I want I want to go to the Dragon Cave because I've heard there's a diamond there and I want to be rich. 01:40:44.39 Adelaide ahha 01:40:44.87 Jala So let's go. It'll be our first adventure, Alex. And then um you have to go reconnoiter with Luna, who is a girl that was orphaned, that was adopted by your parents 15 years ago because you're 15. 01:40:54.59 Adelaide t 01:40:57.73 Jala So she. And um she just kind of grew up alongside you, sort of like a sister, but also sort of like your love interest. Not weird at all. u But nobody ever nobody ever questions this. 01:41:08.35 Adelaide Yeah Yeah, 01:41:11.60 Jala They all just kind of assume this is nice, normal, and natural. But maybe that is how they do it in Berg. ah 01:41:18.32 Adelaide yeah who knows 01:41:19.14 Jala So ah in both versions you have a cool little cutscene where you get to see um Luna and she's singing and like you go and and play music to accompany her to prepare for the goddess festival that's coming up. And in the original version, Alex plays a harp, but in the remake, he plays an ocarina. 01:41:36.74 Adelaide Yeah. 01:41:38.35 Jala Now, this made me very sad because when I saw Alex with a harp in the original version, I really, really wanted a harp. 01:41:38.78 Adelaide Aha. 01:41:44.47 Jala And I wanted to play a little harp like that one. 01:41:46.88 Adelaide Oh. 01:41:47.03 Jala I really, really, really, really wanted one to the point that I was like trying to price it, but we just couldn't afford it. I would have taken up an instrument because of that. So I was so sad when they changed it to an ocarina. 01:41:55.52 Adelaide ah 01:41:58.31 Adelaide And that's one of those weird like ah weird changes that doesn't really do anything for the story. 01:42:03.66 Jala No. 01:42:03.73 Adelaide And it makes me wonder why, like when did Ocarina of Time come out? like Is that just the reason? or like 01:42:13.77 Jala So, Ocarina of Time is 1998. This is before that. 01:42:18.52 Adelaide Oh, OK. 01:42:18.86 Jala I don't know, man. 01:42:19.76 Adelaide So yeah. 01:42:19.92 Jala Maybe there was something going on in Japan that they just 01:42:22.78 Adelaide They're just really into wind instruments. 01:42:25.23 Jala They really like wind instruments. They specifically like ocarinas for some reason. 01:42:29.06 Adelaide Yeah. 01:42:30.21 Jala and And they just have a thing for it. I don't know. I don't know. 01:42:33.63 Adelaide Yeah. 01:42:33.84 Jala So so yeah, like you get your little buddies together. And um in in the original version, Luna is is less naggy, let's say. 01:42:42.70 Adelaide Yeah. 01:42:43.31 Jala ah Overall, she's less naggy. To me, she seems much more sweet um overall. She's much naggier in the remake because she's jealous a lot. um But that's because they're trying to amp up the, oh, they're in love angle. 01:42:52.94 Adelaide Yes. 01:42:58.07 Adelaide Well, specifically, right it again, it like goes back to tropes. So it's not just that they're in love. It's specifically that Luda actively is in love with Alex, but Alex is too like dense to notice it. right It's that classic anime dynamic. 01:43:16.10 Jala except he does know but I mean I don't know whatever like he's just he does not 01:43:18.33 Adelaide i mean kind of the They make a big deal out of it later in the game. so 01:43:23.99 Jala Yeah, I don't know. Well, either way, either way, she got cranked, everybody got cranked up and and changed a little bit. And she seems much more, more so like sweet and innocent and and kind of like, you know, classic love, love lady, you know, ah if that's a thing, um just for like broader, not just anime kind of tropes, but like just broader, broader, you know, this is the idealization of of love and beauty to me, you know, ah kind of thing. 01:43:31.02 Adelaide Mmhmm. 01:43:38.34 Adelaide Mmhmm. 01:43:53.77 Jala But ah either way, in the original version, she's like, oh, it's too dangerous. I have to go with you to make sure you're OK. In the remake, she's like, Alex, I can't believe that you were going to go. Blah, blah, blah. You have to take me with you. 01:44:05.91 Adelaide Aha. 01:44:07.40 Jala And also, it's too dangerous, so I'm going to go with you. um 01:44:10.19 Adelaide Yeah, because I also have to be your mom as well as your sister and girlfriend. 01:44:10.52 Jala but like 01:44:14.90 Jala Yeah, yeah. So that's the thing though, right? She has such mom energy in in the remake and that's that's really what they did to her. 01:44:20.68 Adelaide Aha. 01:44:22.14 Jala They made her mom. 01:44:23.74 Adelaide Yeah. 01:44:23.76 Jala so So yeah, ah you all run around. You go to the White Dragon Cave. In the original version, you actually are turned back at this point because there's a big ball of ice in the way. So you have to go back to town because Ramis' dad has a flame ring that he can use to melt the ice away so you can get in. In the remake version, your dad gives you the ring. Your dad has it. 01:44:47.97 Adelaide Yeah Yeah Mm 01:44:48.56 Jala But it makes more sense for your dad to have it than for Ramis' dad because like your dad actually used to adventure with Dragon Master Dine back when Dragon Master Dine was a small child because Dine is also from the town of Burg. I guess they just don't make them anywhere else except in Burg. 01:45:01.06 Adelaide -hmm 01:45:04.86 Adelaide Yeah, I guess. And and this is like one of the, like when I talk about like the original game feels more old JRPG. This is the kind of thing that I that i mean. is like They have a lot of things where, oh, you're supposed to go to this place. And then you'll go to the place. And you're and they're like, oh, no, wait. You've got to go somewhere else because you need another thing. And then you go back to that place. And then you grab the thing. And then you go back to the place. And then you could progress. like and And this happens. 01:45:31.84 Jala Right. 01:45:34.33 Adelaide Not like super often, but frequently enough that it feels pretty tedious sometimes. 01:45:40.05 Jala Right, right. Well, and then there are two. There's kind of like ah more fetch quests and stuff in the original version. 01:45:44.53 Adelaide Yeah. 01:45:44.89 Jala We'll get there after we get to to the bottom of the Dragon Cave. So ah in the Dragon Cave, the Dragon Cave in the original version is the one that is not memorable. Unless you've played it 100 times, you don't care about the cave. 01:45:54.53 Adelaide Yeah. 01:45:57.13 Jala You don't remember the cave. In the remake, the cave is cool because ah there are these albino ape things that um they will run after you, they will charge at you, and ah you can kind of ah get them to like teae tease them into chasing after you. They go in a straight line and so you can like stand in front of an ice block that's blocking the way and get them to charge at you and dodge out of the way just in time so that they hit the block. 01:46:17.04 Adelaide Mm hmm. 01:46:22.57 Jala and then clear the way so you can get through. And so like that's the only place where you really have any kind of ingenuity that needs to be going into doing this. 01:46:25.71 Adelaide Yeah. 01:46:31.74 Jala And like you know just from a game design perspective, it doesn't make sense for them to get like have you think, OK, so these things have agency like I do in the world. And so I'm going to be seeing more of this kind of thing. And then like it never happens again. like What? What are they doing? That's a whole mechanic that could be there you know more often. 01:46:48.36 Adelaide Right. 01:46:50.97 Jala Not necessarily every time, but more often. 01:46:53.01 Adelaide Yeah. 01:46:55.34 Jala A wasted opportunity. We already talked about that. But you get to the bottom of the Dragon Cave and you meet Quark, the Tetrarch of the Dragon Tribe of of which there are four, five members actually, five members. 01:47:07.76 Adelaide yeah 01:47:08.74 Jala So um he is there, he's an old dragon and he's like, oh, you want my dragon diamond? That's weird because it's made out of my shit. 01:47:19.44 Adelaide yeah that's that's one of those jokes where like i don't and i i don't really have a barometer for scatological humor it's never funny to me i don't think fart sounds are funny i don't think poop jokes are funny but like i just don't like it that that one in particular seems so juvenile 01:47:33.13 Jala Right. 01:47:41.19 Jala Oh, yeah. The first time that i I read that, I actually laughed out loud because, of course, like this is a ah quote unquote serious adventure that they're going on. 01:47:48.95 Adelaide Uh huh. 01:47:49.09 Jala Right. And then suddenly it's like, no, I shit diamonds. 01:47:52.18 Adelaide Yeah, like, okay. 01:47:52.49 Jala And but then like the second thing that happened to me, because like I like that it turned that on its head and it just kind of makes it, you know, silly out of nowhere. 01:47:59.85 Adelaide Uh huh. 01:48:00.98 Jala But also then the second thing that little Jala thought when Jala was playing this, I was 10 at the time this game came out, by the way. um when I was playing, or no, 11. I was 11. So ah when i I heard that, I was like, okay, why didn't you just give me more than one then? 01:48:20.72 Adelaide Yeah. 01:48:21.04 Jala If you've got a whole layer of shit, you know, that means you have so many diamonds. 01:48:23.56 Adelaide Right. 01:48:25.51 Jala Like, why don't you just give me more? I don't need just one. There's so many. 01:48:28.34 Adelaide Yeah. 01:48:28.74 Jala of You could give each of us one, and that wouldn't make a difference to you. 01:48:31.44 Adelaide Uh huh. 01:48:32.59 Jala You know, so so that makes me think that that was like a working designs change. I don't know for a fact though. 01:48:36.70 Adelaide Yeah, must have been. 01:48:37.74 Jala So so yeah, but anyway, um he he's like, OK, here's that thing. But also you smell familiar, Luna. Do I know you? And Luna's like, that's fucking weird. No, I don't know you. 01:48:48.61 Adelaide Yeah. Stop smelling me, baby. 01:48:52.60 Jala Yeah, maybe don't smell me. That's weird. And then he also looks at Alex and is like, hey, you've got green eyes. 01:48:58.24 Adelaide Uh-huh. 01:48:59.34 Jala That must mean you're a dragon master. I haven't seen a dragon master candidate since Dine. And then he starts you on your quest. 01:49:05.94 Adelaide Yeah. 01:49:08.22 Jala He's like, OK, well, here's a dragon ring. This is a symbol that you are trying to take the dragon test, I guess. So here, have this ring to prove that you are on the way to becoming a dragon master. Go forth, brave Alex. OK. So you go back to town and Ramis is like, OK, let's go sell it. And you go to the town. 01:49:26.48 Adelaide right yeah yeah 01:49:26.96 Jala and But of course, Berg, ain't nobody got the money for a big old diamond. So then you're told, hey, you have to go to the continent because you're on this little podunk village in the middle of an island that is way like you know over to the side. And you know like not all the business happens there. like You're off in a sleepy sleepy farm area or whatever. So then like you have to go talk to your parents to get permission and he has to talk to his dad and everybody's got to go get get the okay from the parents to go. 01:49:54.02 Adelaide yeah 01:49:55.28 Jala um Your mom worries about you, but gives you some money and your dad's like, yeah, you can open up all the treasure chests and raid my shit from back when I was a kid and going on adventures. 01:50:03.13 Adelaide Mm-hmm 01:50:03.76 Jala Oh, my boy. 01:50:06.93 Jala take care of Luna, K bye, and that's that. And then Ramis' dad is like, you're not going to make it out there, son, you know, like perfectly toxic parent. So, ah you know, whatever he comes in. 01:50:16.40 Adelaide Yeah Uh 01:50:19.57 Jala So when you get Ramis, he's got like a little dagger or something, but then he's got a trash can lid. And that's his his shield as a trashcan lid because he had to take that on the way out because his dad is such a shit. 01:50:26.99 Adelaide -huh 01:50:30.10 Jala So even though his dad is like the village elder or whatever, and he could like definitely afford to give him a shield. 01:50:30.25 Adelaide Uh-huh 01:50:35.75 Jala But, you know, ah that's that's how that goes. 01:50:35.87 Adelaide Oh, yeah, for sure. 01:50:38.80 Jala So ah you move on. But you did have a note here about Tetrak. 01:50:41.93 Adelaide Yeah. 01:50:44.46 Adelaide Yeah, so I the word stuck in my head because it's not a normal 01:50:48.46 Jala Normal. Yeah, you don't normally hear that in regular speech. Yeah. 01:50:51.67 Adelaide And like he he literally says it. So I was like, what what could that possibly mean? And what it what it is is it's like a term for a governor in the Roman Empire, which makes quark the governor of dragons, which doesn't actually make sense. And it makes me wonder, like what what was the word that they were trying to to translate because they could have said patriarch and that also wouldn't have been right, but it would have made sense. 01:51:17.08 Jala Yeah. Right. 01:51:21.64 Adelaide But like, tetrarch is such a weird specific word to use. 01:51:26.91 Jala I know it is, and especially because he's got like the drag, the drag or no fucks on his voice and stuff. 01:51:30.78 Adelaide Yeah. 01:51:31.59 Jala Like I i was like, what the fuck did he just say when I was 11 and listening to this game? And I'm like, what did he say? 01:51:36.36 Adelaide Uh huh. 01:51:39.64 Jala I pulled out a dictionary because, you know, physical dictionaries still existed back then. 01:51:43.40 Adelaide Right? 01:51:43.84 Jala And I was like, oh, Ted truck, that's weird. why Why would they use that word? you know 01:51:49.26 Adelaide Yeah, even even something like Emperor of Dragons, which i I suspect is maybe closer to what the actual word was, or King. 01:51:55.01 Jala They could just say chief. All I gotta do is chief. 01:51:57.97 Adelaide Yeah, anything, anything. 01:51:58.31 Jala I'm the chief. I'm the head dragon. I'm the head dragon. Okay. 01:52:01.58 Adelaide Yeah. 01:52:02.25 Jala I'm the leader. Okay. We got you. Leonardo leads. 01:52:06.30 Adelaide Right, exactly. 01:52:06.61 Jala Understand. 01:52:09.52 Jala so and Working designs could have just said I'm Leonardo and I lead. That would have been fine. It would have been working designs. 01:52:16.07 Adelaide It would have made more sense. 01:52:17.47 Jala Right? Okay, so anyway, in the original version you have a whole side mission, which I'm glad they took out in the remake, but in the original version you have to cross a bridge which is washed out. 01:52:22.40 Adelaide Yeah. 01:52:25.02 Adelaide Yeah. 01:52:28.67 Jala So then you have to go and get the the axe for the woodcutter so the woodcutter can get in more timber so they can go and and get the the bridge made again. 01:52:37.39 Adelaide Yeah. 01:52:38.36 Jala But so that what that leads to is multiple delays because first you got to go out of your way to go to the weird woods to get the axe. 01:52:41.48 Adelaide yeah 01:52:45.00 Jala Then you have to come back and give it to him. Then you have to leave again and go back to town and hang out for a while until he fixes the bridge. so like that That, of course, forces some more interactions in town with your parents and everything and with Luna. and and whatever. But like in the remake, they just speed it up. And there's between Berg and Faith, there is the weird woods. They just moved the weird woods from off in a different direction entirely, took out the bridge, and said, OK, you just go through the woods. 01:53:05.02 Adelaide yeah 01:53:11.92 Jala And that's where you meet this weirdo named Lake who likes to laugh about everything. 01:53:14.35 Adelaide Yeah Yeah, he's very jovial 01:53:18.05 Jala Yes. 01:53:18.51 Adelaide um Definitely very big like older older man mentor energy. um 01:53:27.73 Adelaide you know He's infinitely stronger than all of your characters. He's very jovial. he's He takes everything like sort of with a grain of salt. He's just this like fun, goofy old man who's like super strong for some reason. 01:53:42.74 Jala Well, what I like is that in the original version, uh, it makes more sense for him to be like laughing, basically laughing at everything you guys are doing, you know, cause like he does, he laughs a lot and he's like, Oh, you're on an adventure. 01:53:54.67 Adelaide Yeah. 01:53:56.29 Jala That's funny. You know, and stuff like that. 01:53:57.42 Adelaide Ah. 01:53:58.77 Jala But like, if you're a 15 year old and you're going on your big old adventure, like he's just like, okay, child, you know, but like, if you're 17 or 18 or whatever age, age, Alex and Luna are at this point, and then he's just like, Yeah, dumb, dumb man, dumb, young, child young man. 01:54:03.22 Adelaide Yeah. 01:54:11.69 Adelaide Ah. 01:54:13.35 Jala You're not even a child anymore. You're a young man now. Legal adult, dumb, legal adult, you know? But one thing that I do like is that in the remake, you get mobbed by a bunch of goblins. And in the in their original version, like that happens and you have to withstand for a couple of rounds and then Lake pops up and that's when you meet him. 01:54:24.63 Adelaide Aha. 01:54:31.50 Jala In the remake, you meet Lake and then the goblins attack. 01:54:31.66 Adelaide Yeah. 01:54:34.92 Jala And then he's like, hey, you need my help. 01:54:36.11 Adelaide Aha. 01:54:36.80 Jala And you can tell him no. and then just go through some waves of of guys or you can have him help you depending upon if you want all the XP or not um because it is worth for you to tell him no but he's like okay if you're sure you know you you want my help now there's another wave of them you know and like he's just kind of hanging back but letting you do your thing and that's good 01:54:45.53 Adelaide Yeah. 01:54:48.89 Adelaide Aha. Yeah, and it'll keep... 01:54:58.27 Adelaide Yeah. And it'll keep on doing that forever, I think. I don't think there's a way to exhaust them. so And it is a pretty difficult enemy encounter for where you are at the game. 01:55:10.36 Jala Yeah, I could get through a couple of waves, but then I needed his help on the third wave. 01:55:14.70 Adelaide Yeah. 01:55:14.67 Jala so um But yeah, like I think there's three waves total if I'm not mistaken, at least per the guidebook. 01:55:21.43 Adelaide Oh, okay. 01:55:21.45 Jala um So there's three waves total, but it's extremely hard to get through that third wave without him because you have to like use a bunch of items to try to like get get prepped for that. 01:55:27.62 Adelaide Mm-hmm. Right, 01:55:32.49 Jala um Because there is no downtime in between. 01:55:34.87 Adelaide right yeah. 01:55:35.79 Jala So, uh, and the, the dialogue with Luna changes, like if you, uh, make it through the whole way, I believe Luna is just like, you know, Oh, we did it, blah, blah, blah. But if you accept Lake's help, then Luna's like, I can't believe you used his help. Yeah. is so Yeah. 01:55:52.44 Adelaide Gotcha. 01:55:52.94 Jala Either way. 01:55:53.13 Adelaide um There's a slight change for the Weird Woods on the way in too, which is that like i one of the things that I appreciate um that I noticed in re in playing the remake, now that I sort of know the shape of the story, is I feel like they do a lot more foregrounding or 01:55:54.00 Jala Uh-huh. 01:56:11.36 Jala yes 01:56:12.26 Adelaide ah ah foreshadowing of like things that come up later. So as early as you know the first couple of hours of the game, you have like Luna mentioning being played by nightmares that you know foreshadow her origin. And then like to get into into the weird woods. If you try to go in without her, Remus is just like, oh no, it's to the fog is too dense. 01:56:36.44 Jala Yes. Yes. 01:56:39.10 Adelaide Let's turn around. It's scary. ah But like when you go in with Luna, she like sings a song and clears the fog. And you know when when your characters are like, oh, like how did you do that? She's like, I don't know. It just like felt like the right thing to do. 01:56:55.54 Jala Mm hmm. 01:56:56.16 Adelaide you know And I think that's a cool cool moment to characterize because you know in the remake, Luna is going to be a much more present character um to give her that little moment. 01:56:56.71 Jala Right. 01:57:05.56 Jala Right. 01:57:08.61 Jala Right and that's something that the remake does a lot for Luna and for Kyle and for Jessica in particular. Not so much for Nash and Mia in my opinion, um but at least for those three characters they are given a lot more screen time and a lot more like time with their thoughts and stuff. 01:57:26.10 Adelaide Yeah. 01:57:26.65 Jala Both versions have the part where Quark is like, hey do I know you? But um as for like Luna's song and like her nightmares, like they don't mention nightmares at all in the original. That was added after they made the first version of it. And part of the reason for that is LunaR2. But we'll get there. You will see so many overlaps. And like once you play like the Sega CD version of LunaR2, Addy, if you get the chance to play that one and the the remake version, ah you will understand exactly like so many things that are in this game were lifted from 2. 01:58:00.93 Jala Um. 01:58:01.12 Adelaide Well, that's and and that's really cool. I feel like that ae that shows an intent to like I don't really understand the point of legends and like harmony because it doesn't feel like they're trying to tell a more complete story. They're just like taking different elements and like jumbling them up. Whereas like the difference between original Silver Star and like Silver Star Story complete It really feels like they looked at the narrative as a whole and they were like, okay, what what can we do to this story to make it make more sense or flow a little bit better or just like feel better as a story? 01:58:40.20 Jala Yeah. 01:58:43.22 Jala Right. Because definitely, when it comes to some of the side missions and stuff that's going on in the original game, you're like, I lost track of why I'm over here again. Like, why is there, and we'll get to it, the fucking Incan god? 01:58:53.15 Adelaide right 01:58:56.08 Jala Like, where the fucking deck come from? There's no Inca here? 01:58:58.57 Adelaide yeah 01:58:59.41 Jala Like, what is happening? 01:58:59.85 Adelaide Right. 01:59:01.30 Jala So, or the Aztec god or whatever. 01:59:01.39 Adelaide or Or your perennial favorite, uh, Brainiac. 01:59:04.27 Jala Oh my God, I love the Brainiac, but also why Brainiac? And why? Oh, oh it's the Brainiac. 01:59:07.84 Adelaide Yeah. 01:59:09.25 Jala What is that? So but we'll get there. We'll get there for sure. 01:59:13.74 Adelaide yeah 01:59:13.94 Jala um So yeah, like you go to safe and you're trying to get across the ocean to go to Moribia, but the problem is that, well, there's two problems in the original version. the first The first problem is the only problem that comes forth in ah the remake because they they they changed a little bit. 01:59:30.16 Adelaide Uh 01:59:31.44 Jala So the first problem is that the sea captain gambled away the sea map, the chart that he needs. And it's with the old hag that lives in the woods up in a different direction. So you have to go to the old hag and try to get you know the sea chart back so that you can navigate the ocean to go across the ocean. 01:59:45.80 Adelaide -huh. 01:59:51.17 Jala so you go over there to go get the thing from the old hag along the way you meet Nash. So ah in the original version, in the Sega CD version, Nash is actually there in the, it is he in the city? 02:00:09.18 Adelaide Yeah I think he's in the tavern. 02:00:09.63 Jala He's in the city. He's in the tavern. He, yeah yeah, yeah, right. Yeah, he is. He's in the tavern. You meet him in the tavern and he offers to go with you to trade a wand that he has, a staff of flowing water for the sea chart, because he has business. 02:00:21.55 Adelaide yeah 02:00:24.30 Jala He's from vain and he, you know, which is a floating magic city that's on the mainland. he needs to get back to the mainland so he can report into his boss so he needs to get there too so he comes along with you and he gives you the staff but because everything's dialed up to 11 in the remake instead of that happening in the town before you set out you go into the woods around the old hags house and along the way you see these ridiculous traps 02:00:50.59 Adelaide Yeah. 02:00:51.07 Jala And it's basically like, here's a ah big, I don't know, um gigantic bowl with a stick, a basket or something with a stick propped up on, you know, to propping it up. 02:00:57.19 Adelaide Yeah, a basket or something. 02:01:02.56 Jala And then Nall's like, who's stupid enough to actually fall for these dumb traps? And then you find Nash in one of those. and then he's like as soon as he is freed he pops out and he pulls out his comb brushes his hair and is like you kids be you know careful around here okay and you know with a little shiny shiny little eye flash 02:01:21.13 Adelaide Right. 02:01:24.36 Adelaide he does He twirls his comb in his fingers. 02:01:27.05 Jala Yes, it's so much, it's so much. 02:01:30.70 Adelaide Uh-huh. 02:01:31.03 Jala It's like, if you don't already like hate Nash from the first time you see Nash, like don't worry, you'll hate him by the end of the game, I'm sure. 02:01:37.57 Adelaide Yes, yeah. 02:01:38.22 Jala So so yeah, um you either way get the C-chart and you get back. Now, in the original version, then they're like, oh, well, there's another problem. Also, the lighthouse is full of monsters and we can't get the lighthouse going. 02:01:49.17 Adelaide Yeah. 02:01:51.75 Jala Can you also go take care of that, children? so then you go through the lighthouse to clear it of monsters so that you can turn the beacon on in the lighthouse so you can go what they did in the remake is oh shit there's a gigantic monster that's over at the end of the pier on the boat now like the lighthouse makes more sense than the gigantic monster but also i'm glad they didn't put another like dungeon or something in for you so you know um i don't really care one way or the other which version of this you go with uh the lighthouse makes more sense to me personally but 02:02:07.11 Adelaide Yeah. 02:02:10.71 Adelaide Mhm. 02:02:24.08 Jala ah It's fine fighting the big goo monster that's at the end of the pier. 02:02:27.07 Adelaide Yeah. 02:02:29.00 Jala So ah what did you think of this first bo boss battle? Didn't you have a problem with it on the original version? 02:02:36.24 Adelaide I think I did. i don't I don't remember if I was just like underpowered. 02:02:39.39 Jala Underleveled, I think. Yeah, I think you just needed to gain a level for Luna to get a magic spell. 02:02:40.82 Adelaide ah 02:02:44.54 Adelaide Yeah, that might have been it. But like in the remake, I think the the boss um that you fight on the piers is if you're if again, if you're doing the thing where you're clearing out areas as you go through should be totally fine. And it's also like a fun chance to get to use Nash in battle. You know, you kind of get a little preview ah since he will be a semi permanent character going forward. 02:03:09.83 Jala Right. Right. So I think in the original version, Nash leaves your party after you get back because all he cared about was getting the thing from the Sea Hags house. So I, isn't it just you and Luna going to the lighthouse? 02:03:21.32 Adelaide It could be just you and Luna, which would account for more difficulty also. 02:03:23.43 Jala So. 02:03:25.89 Jala Yeah. Yeah. I think it's something like that. So um yeah. And it's funny because like when you ah offer to go to the lighthouse to light the beacon at that point in the original version, Luna stops to tell you, she does this a lot when you're with her for the brief amount of time that you're with her. She's like, oh, Alex, I i didn't even notice that you've become such a courageous man until now. Like you you've really like, you grew a pair. 02:03:50.08 Adelaide Uh huh. Wow. 02:03:51.80 Jala Cool. Their balls dropped. Nice. ah you know like That's what she just said to you. as OK. 02:03:56.70 Adelaide Yeah. 02:03:58.00 Jala But some yeah. Yeah. But yeah, this is a you know, this could be a good cut. ah that The White House is not a very long area to go through. It's just going up several floors. 02:04:07.90 Adelaide Yeah. 02:04:08.45 Jala You just have a few encounters along the way. It's kind of equivalent to a boss battle. 02:04:12.02 Adelaide Mm 02:04:12.86 Jala It's not really that much different. So, ah you know, it's six of one half dozen of of of another it doesn't matter to me which way. 02:04:15.14 Adelaide hmm. 02:04:20.89 Adelaide i I think for me um like putting another it's it's about like the frequency. So like you just did a dungeon to get to the witch and now you're doing another dungeon when you thought you were going to be progressing the game that kind of like creates friction. 02:04:26.83 Jala right 02:04:36.44 Jala well and 02:04:36.72 Adelaide Whereas like fighting a boss is still slowing down the action but not as much as like going through a dungeon would. 02:04:44.43 Jala Well, here's the thing. ah In the original version, there is no woods that you have to go through to get to the SeaHag. You just have the overworld. 02:04:50.73 Adelaide Oh, okay. 02:04:51.65 Jala You just have the overworld, and then you're at the SeaHag's house. So ah what they did is they put the dungeon in ah ah in the forest around the SeaHag's house, and then they took out the dungeon of the lighthouse. 02:04:54.61 Adelaide Okay. 02:05:02.77 Jala so 02:05:02.99 Adelaide Okay. 02:05:03.89 Jala So that's why I say i mean like it's basically a one-for-one trade-off to me. 02:05:06.28 Adelaide Yeah. 02:05:08.55 Jala so ah But this is the first time that you are fighting a boss in this game, and it is the last thing that you do when you're on Calder Isle, so that is cool as a nice cap to it. 02:05:16.52 Adelaide yeah 02:05:19.08 Jala So in the the biggest the biggest divergence to me in this entire game is really in what happens next. Because in the original version, Luna is like, I have to go back and check on your parents. 02:05:26.27 Adelaide Yeah. 02:05:31.12 Jala Because she, again, she's like that fragile love interest. She's not really out for adventure. she This is your thing that you want to go do over there. 02:05:38.06 Adelaide Right. 02:05:38.58 Jala And she's like, i I have to take care of them because we are their children. And one of us has to stay behind to to look out for them I will be here waiting for you. And the last thing she says to you you know is goodbye, my love. you know ah The world beyond these shores is such a dangerous place. Oh, Alex, you have to come back to me. And and so like you know even if she's not straight up saying my love until the end of it, you know. 02:06:03.66 Adelaide Yeah. 02:06:05.36 Jala And you can hear it in her voice. 02:06:05.83 Adelaide Yeah, yeah, yeah. 02:06:07.12 Jala And that part was heartbreaking to me. Like, no, Luna, you can't leave. So I was like, oh, no, Luna is going to leave when I play the remake. And then I'm like, oh, she's still with me. And then little did I know how long Luna stays with you. She stays with you for a long fucking time in the remake. 02:06:19.49 Adelaide Yeah. Uh, yeah. 02:06:22.01 Jala It's not like at least a third of the game. 02:06:24.47 Adelaide Oh yeah, easily. 02:06:25.35 Jala at least. um Yeah, she's with you a long time in the remake. But again, that's partially because they're trying to flesh out those characters and give you more time with Luna and Alex to see their relationship develop, but also to give you more of Luna's character because once she's away, she's away. 02:06:36.87 Adelaide Yeah. 02:06:41.56 Jala So 02:06:42.09 Adelaide Yeah. And and that's ah one thing that I really appreciate about the remake is like you know the boat scene is notable for a lot of reasons, right? The music is pretty. The animation is impressive. um The song itself is really nice. But like it's also one of the first times that we get to see like Luna B. like express herself in a way that isn't like, you know, around Alex and the rest of the party members. She's very right. She's strong. She's pushy. She's sassy. You know, she is that mother figure. But like in the remake, they give you little bits and pieces where you get to see that shield drop. And I think that's a that's a cool thing to do with the character, because i you don't really get that with a lot of the other characters, like not that they're not emotionally vulnerable with each other, but like 02:07:37.49 Adelaide in the same way that there's a very big like divide between this is my public facade and this is my like sort of inner turmoil. 02:07:48.05 Jala So what I'll say about that is some all of the characters, well not all of the characters, the female characters specifically, all have that element in the remake. um Because Mia has that point where she's worrying and doubting, but then she also ends up developing a confidence that comes out later when everybody else is assuming that she's worrying and doubting. 02:08:08.98 Adelaide Mm hmm. 02:08:09.49 Jala And um I like that growth progression for her. And Jessica is kind of reconciling her sweet and innocent face to her dad, to you know the the strong position that she puts herself in. 02:08:21.56 Adelaide Yeah. 02:08:21.91 Jala She's very much like a Luna analog in a lot of ways, but like turned up to an even fiery level, more fiery level. 02:08:27.72 Adelaide yeah 02:08:28.57 Jala um But then she also has times where she's having feelings and and worries and disappointments. Like they show Jessica specifically very often where she's disappointed in something that Kyle does or says. 02:08:40.03 Adelaide Yes, yeah. 02:08:40.56 Jala And you know she's feeling a way about it. And you get to see that vulnerabilit vulnerability when she's there. And you know so Kyle does too. There's points where he acknowledges it and he's like, I'm not as dense as you think I am. 02:08:50.65 Adelaide Yeah. 02:08:53.17 Jala you know Like i I'm aware. you know I know. you know so um But again, like that's that's some of the fleshing out that is offered to you in the remake that does not exist in the original version. Because again, it's the sensation of what they were doing. and like they They were trying to find their footing in the very, very first game, the first iteration. And they were telling a great little adventure story, but they weren't focusing on those character dynamics to the level that they were in the remake. 02:09:20.10 Adelaide Yeah. 02:09:23.03 Jala Because after they did Lunar 2, they realized that the strength is actually in the characters. 02:09:26.51 Adelaide Yeah. 02:09:28.85 Jala More than the world, more than the overall narrative, it's the characters themselves that are the the selling point for the games and those interactions that you have with each of them. So ah that's why they lean into it so hard in the remake. And that's the thing that I appreciate about the remake. Even if I don't like how they they turned them into kind of tropes in a lot of ways, um In the original version, they had a little bit more room to breathe because they didn't um fit those molds so hard. 02:09:58.10 Adelaide Yeah. 02:09:58.54 Jala so So yeah, um the thing about that that whole scene is, ah so in the original version, she says goodbye, and then you go across the ocean. And the first night that you're in Moribia, you have nightmares about Luna because you're worrying about her. 02:10:14.64 Adelaide Yeah. 02:10:14.72 Jala And you know like you hear her calling out to you, Alex is screaming, and then like weird noises happen. 02:10:19.60 Adelaide Uh-huh. 02:10:20.60 Jala And like that ends up happening in the remake too, but way, way later. 02:10:24.94 Adelaide Way later. 02:10:25.49 Jala way later. so um So there's that. 02:10:26.56 Adelaide Yeah. 02:10:28.53 Jala But like for me, in the original version, as an adventure story, that makes sense in this part because Alex has to set out on his own and be away from his comfort zone. 02:10:37.50 Adelaide Mhm. 02:10:38.52 Jala And some of his comforts and comfort zone is having Luna there. 02:10:42.82 Adelaide Yeah. 02:10:42.78 Jala So not having her to go set out on his own and then having to eventually also say goodbye to Ramus and then be on his own for a while before he eventually builds up. 02:10:51.03 Adelaide Yeah. 02:10:52.58 Jala You know, like that's important to the kind of adventure story they're telling. In the remake, though, um Luna is saying goodbye and you get on the boat and that's why I'm expecting her to leave forever. Right. And I'm like, quick. Oh, I can't unequip all of her stuff before we go to the end because we just had a boss battle. 02:11:07.02 Adelaide Uh huh. 02:11:09.23 Jala Damn. You know, I want to take take all her stuff. I need the money. Because I'm such a romantic. and ah Anyway, then you know she starts suddenly feeling like maybe she wants to go and Alex talks her into it and then she ends up running down the gangplank and jumping into Alex's arms and being grabbed and hauled onto the boat. 02:11:22.38 Adelaide uh-huh uh-huh 02:11:28.97 Jala And um then while you're leaving, um you know like you're on the ship. You actually get some time to explore on the ship. And then like Luna expresses some of her feelings. She starts having more nightmares, and she's worried. And she goes out in the middle of the night and sings her boat song, which is beautifully animated. um Although like that early CG is rough, and I hate every time I see it in these games. in this 02:11:50.38 Adelaide Oh, really? See, that's funny. i I find it actually really good looking in this game. 02:11:54.04 Jala That's hilarious. 02:11:56.25 Adelaide I think just because but maybe it's you know put in with like sort of lower fidelity animation anyway, it doesn't look so like glaring. 02:12:04.87 Jala Right, right. um The thing is, too, is that the original version that was on the Sega Saturn, because of the Sega Saturn's video limitations, um ah and this is a good, this is a change that was super for the better. When they brought it to PS1, they had to scale everything up, because on the original version, you only had like a quarter of the screen, like there was a lot of thick black around it, and there was like this teeny tiny little screen in the middle for any videos that played. 02:12:25.03 Adelaide Aha. 02:12:29.16 Jala So um when they brought it to PS1, that gave you the far better presentation to where people in Japan would buy the remake that was made in America because they liked the larger fidelity and all of that, of the of everything in that version. so Uh, but yeah, like, uh, you end up going across the the ocean to Moribia and Nash goes to Black Rose Street, which is where all of the cool mages hang out and he leaves. 02:12:55.10 Adelaide Yes. 02:12:55.77 Jala And then you and Ramis and in the remake Luna, I'll go to see the jeweler dross. So dross offers you a bunch of money and then he takes the diamond goes into the back and huh It's taking a long time Oh shit, we were had there's a whole layer down here And he just done took off with our diamond 02:13:08.64 Adelaide Aha. Aha. 02:13:20.53 Jala So ah if you go to Black Rose Street and talk to Nash, um there is a guy there. not not ah In the remake, it's it's it's a whole different scenario. But like at this point in the game, in the Moribian sewer, only magic can attack can actually injure anything. 02:13:36.33 Adelaide Yeah. 02:13:37.13 Jala So it's dangerous for you to go down there until you go talk to Nash. You talk to Nash, and there's a ah random old wizard guy who can unlock your magical power. So he does that and you have a fire spell and a healing spell and then you and Ramis can go back down and go through the sewer. If you happen to talk to master Mel, who is a very important character, he's one of the four heroes who also is the ruler of Moribia. Now here's the funny thing. Mel, Meru, Meribia. He called his town after himself. 02:14:09.45 Jala It's Melibia. 02:14:09.85 Adelaide Uh huh. 02:14:10.44 Jala It's Melibia. He called it himself. 02:14:14.01 Adelaide Yeah, very good. 02:14:14.87 Jala Anyway, if you go to Mel and you talk to him, ah he's just like, ah, that sucks. But if you want to be a dragon master, you have to take care of that dumb guy by yourself. Have fun, kids. So um you know you follow after and you go down there. um And like in in the remake version, when you go to Black Rose Street, instead of the old guy drawing out your power, you have Royce, a a shadowy figure who's not sus at all with her notably gothy look and 02:14:43.86 Adelaide ah Definitely not a villain, definitely not being like actively ah antagonistic towards you. 02:14:51.47 Jala Right, but she her whole shtick, the old like the only personality trait is, I foresee the future, I foresee blah, blah, blah. 02:14:55.88 Adelaide Yes. 02:14:58.52 Adelaide I'm a fortune teller. 02:15:00.80 Jala Yeah, I'm a fortune teller. 02:15:03.16 Adelaide Yeah. 02:15:03.28 Jala and And that's it. So Royce tells Alex at this point, he will never be able to be a dragon master because he's unwilling to choose power and glory over loved ones. So you already know from this statement alone, this is a villain villain, like underlined several times villain and also Nash is hanging out with this bad villain character. 02:15:12.72 Adelaide Yeah. 02:15:16.44 Adelaide Right. 02:15:22.06 Adelaide aha And this is this is another thing where like you wouldn't pick it up the first time, although it's pretty hard to not pick up the fact that Royce is a bad guy. 02:15:22.15 Jala Hmm. 02:15:30.82 Adelaide But like this is something that Galleon is going to say over and over and over again, because that's his whole sort of like ethos. right is like Dying was wrong because he fell in love, at and a real good Dragon Master wouldn't do that. They would, I don't know, wield their power or whatever. ah So, like, you wouldn't pick it up the first time, but but on on reflection, like going back to write up the notes, I was like, oh, this is like ah this is like an audience ideological link right between Royce and Galleon. 02:16:05.29 Jala right so here's the big big difference for galleon that i need to point out since we're talking galleon right now so in the original version galleon does he does say at some point or another like he yeah he eventually like morphs into power hungry and then at that point then that's it. But his primary motivation originally is to get vengeance for his friend that had died or lost all of his power or whatever because Althena was not strong enough. 02:16:25.64 Adelaide but Yeah. 02:16:30.77 Jala In the original version of the game, the Black Dragon went insane and Dine had to put him down because it was a threat to Althena and to the rest of the world. And so Dine and Galleon fought against the dragon, but only Galleon left the cave. after it was done. Everybody assumed Dine died. But what happened was Dine lost all of his magic trying to fight off the dragon. And he actually willingly gave that magic up to set it aside after that to just be like a normal dude. 02:17:01.93 Jala And, um you know, then Galian basically felt for all intents and purposes, his friend Dine is dead because he had such a major ideological shift. 02:17:10.46 Adelaide Right. 02:17:12.59 Jala It's kind of like, you know, ah if you are with somebody for a very long time and you're not growing in the same direction, that relationship splits. 02:17:17.91 Adelaide Uh huh. 02:17:20.40 Jala And so like even if you still love each other, like it's not going to work out anymore. It's kind of like a big breakup. like Really, Galleon and Dine were just a couple all along. And they had a breakup, and Galleon was very upset about it, and then blamed the other woman, Althena, whom was the reason why Dine lost his power. 02:17:31.34 Adelaide It's true. Yeah. 02:17:40.96 Jala And so um now, if you think about this from like the Mazuku standpoint, because Galleon is a Mazuku, or a vile tribe member, if you will. 02:17:41.22 Adelaide Yeah. 02:17:48.86 Jala um He is a long-lived species. He has power. Power is the way that any mazaku can do anything in this world because they had all of their power distinctly taken away from them because of Althena. And so he hates Althena for multiple reasons. And he thinks power, he prioritizes power because of his situation for his people. And his friend Dine will die, age and die without his extra power. 02:18:12.29 Adelaide yeah 02:18:17.08 Jala So like, you know, he he's worried about Dine, but he also is kind of working through the language that he understands given his character, like his his history that's not spoken about, right? 02:18:18.67 Adelaide Yeah. 02:18:30.23 Jala um And yeah, go ahead. 02:18:30.62 Adelaide Yeah, ah one thing. Oh, go ahead. Sorry. Oh, I was just gonna say, so I know that you prefer that the Sega CD iteration of Galleon. One thing that was really confusing to me in the original game, and maybe it was just like me not doing a very good job of like reading into context, but in that game, it seemed to me like Galleon actually thought that Dine was dead, not like the person that he knew as Dine was dead, but like that Dine was actually dead. And then 02:19:03.70 Adelaide So like that feels like a good motivation. But then when there's a point where they come back together right on the rooftop at my place, and then he was just like, well, now I'm i'm mad that like you gave up your magic, which is fine, I guess, ah as a motivation. 02:19:10.14 Jala Yeah. 02:19:20.51 Adelaide I don't know. I don't I feel like the the idea like of there being like sort of this ideological split where like Galleon believes humanity is like irredeemable, right? They can't govern themselves. They're just going to like run themselves to the ground. So they need a figurehead to lead them versus like Dine and Althena noticing that like actually having a goddess as a living breathing presence in the world was doing 02:19:53.25 Adelaide humanity harm because they weren't growing they were just relying on the goddess and so like using that as a motivation to like have Althena like give up her powers and be reincarnated and then like that being the thing that frustrated Galleon. I feel like that that works for me better as a motivation. 02:20:15.73 Jala Right. I think where it gets into being like irritating for me is one, I think it's real weird that Dine and Althea had a love thing going, but then like here I'm going to turn myself into a baby. Like that's fucking weird. 02:20:25.87 Adelaide Yeah. 02:20:27.32 Jala Um, and then here, okay. I'm going to help the next guy who's going to be the dragon master. And he's going to have bone down with like the goddess that I used to love. 02:20:35.49 Adelaide Yeah. 02:20:35.60 Jala Like that's fucking Real fucking weird. 02:20:38.07 Adelaide but Yeah. 02:20:39.71 Jala So yeah. 02:20:40.01 Adelaide and and what i walked ah i'm sorry What I walked away from the remake specifically wanting is actually like more characterization for Althena as a separate character from Luna because you don't really get any sense of her as a person outside of the brief time that she's in the game. 02:20:50.43 Jala Yeah. Right. 02:21:01.57 Adelaide And in that form, she's expressly a villain and also had her memories erased. so like It's hard for me to think of that character that you experience being the same character that Dyne would fall in love with and decide to like give up his magic power for. 02:21:21.96 Jala Right. Right. And I mean, like the explanation for his magic power going away because the Black Dragon went and said, well, because here's the thing. Once he killed the Black Dragon, the the power goes away. 02:21:32.56 Adelaide Right, because the dragons have to be present for the Dragonmaster to have power. 02:21:33.13 Jala So. 02:21:35.54 Jala Yes. Yes, so dine gave up his life to protect other people and That's why gallium got mad is because he's like Althene is not even strong enough to deal with her own dragons that are there that you know protect her or whatever And so like my friend had to go through all this crap as a result of you know of her Well, you know i'm just going to take her power because I can do it better than she can because what the fuck is this, you know and um 02:21:49.74 Adelaide and Yeah. 02:22:04.71 Jala so So in the original version, to me, it feels like the the character ah of Galleon himself changes over time. where Originally, he's upset because of all this this stuff that we already or that I already mentioned. 02:22:11.31 Adelaide Yeah. 02:22:16.84 Jala um But then when he sees Dine again later and he sees Dine content and happy with his new place in life, that doesn't sit with Galleon's expectations and desires for Dine. And so he's upset the dine is just accepting it and moving on. And that's, he's in a different, completely different place because he wants things to be kind of like how they were. 02:22:36.93 Adelaide yeah 02:22:39.29 Jala And they won't ever be that way again, which is why I say this is like a long running, you know, romantic relationship that goes sour or even a best friendship. It could be that too, that goes sour. And then like when it goes sour, you know, you really want nothing more in that moment than like, you know, the thing to be restored back to where it was. And you can't have that. That's the one thing you can't get. 02:23:03.90 Adelaide Right. 02:23:04.11 Jala So like, it is still a ah story about a relationship, but it's a different kind of relationship. And eventually, once he gets the power, then he turns into, I'm just going to rule over everybody because I can do it better. 02:23:15.61 Adelaide Yeah. 02:23:16.02 Jala or And he changes. But like, it he kind of goes into a different mode when he turns Magic Emperor. 02:23:17.96 Adelaide Yeah. 02:23:22.15 Jala But Like they make a point in the story of having Mia tell you, Galleon used to pick flowers for me and he, you know, he has this whole magic fairy garden with all these little fairies he cares about and is very sweet too. 02:23:30.23 Adelaide Yeah. 02:23:34.25 Adelaide Yeah. 02:23:36.54 Jala And like, you know, he has parts of himself that, you know, have a softer side, a gentler side, even after the loss of dine. 02:23:37.58 Adelaide Mm hmm. 02:23:44.52 Jala But, you know, like still like all of that is gone and that they make a point of saying it in the original Sega CD version, all of that is gone when 02:23:52.77 Adelaide Mhm. 02:23:53.39 Jala he becomes magic emperor and he starts assuming that power once he starts wiping out those dragons and he can't turn back anymore he's made that call like he's gone he's different you know the the situation has changed him 02:24:03.36 Adelaide Yeah. 02:24:05.83 Jala And um in the remake, I just feel like he's too much of like, you know, they turned him from somebody who's really, you know, hurting as a character feeling, you know, lots of feelings because of this, this split and this relationship that he had. It's no longer a complex feeling. he He's got about dying at all. It's not even about dying. It's not even dying. 02:24:24.19 Adelaide Yeah. 02:24:24.79 Jala He doesn't even care. He's just thinking in broad strokes, the whole world, blah, blah, blah. 02:24:26.23 Adelaide Yeah. 02:24:29.46 Jala And I don't care about him being a holy roller who wants to tell everybody they need to be in a patriarchy. I'm not there for that galleon. 02:24:36.23 Adelaide Yeah. 02:24:37.47 Jala I'm not, you know, so. 02:24:38.00 Adelaide That's fair. One of the things that I noticed upon um watching back through the footage as I was writing notes um is 02:24:46.96 Jala Yeah. 02:24:50.06 Adelaide they everybody for like a certain like couple of hours of gameplay ah ah basically once you get to to Vayne and all of the initial stories surrounding Vayne like everybody goes out of their way to try and get Alex specifically Galleon over and over and over again is like hey why don't you why don't you stay in Vayne and like study magic like doesn't that seem cool doesn't that seem like a good idea And like it makes me wonder if that that was their attempt to show like a little bit more humanity for him. like Because from the way that I'm thinking of it, like from the beginning, Nash is in on the plan. um Or at least like probably knows something's going on. Galleon has to be at least aware 02:25:43.50 Adelaide of like magical singers if not expressly Luna because that's another thing that everybody talks about is like oh it's so notable that Luna can sing so well and everybody's like hey you should sing for me sometime right like all of the villains do that and so I wonder if like in the beginning before like Alex is really locked into like I'm gonna be a dragon master I'm gonna be the magic emperor if there's like an attempt to 02:25:57.28 Jala yeah 02:26:12.01 Adelaide like almost like save him from that eventual like confrontation because Galleon knows at that point he's already like planning to capture the dragons and be the supreme emperor of the world so yeah true 02:26:25.96 Jala Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It could well be. It could well be. But of course, if Alex never becomes the Dragon Master, it's also just that much easier for him to not have a Dragon Master in front of him trying to oppose him. So it could be either way. But um moving right along because we gotta have so ah You go down into the sewers and you fight a bunch of critters and you have to fight a big water dragon. um and This is like Dross's pet that he he got that it guards his safe, which is at the bottom and the very end of the sewers for some reason. 02:26:58.60 Adelaide Yeah. 02:27:01.46 Jala and Anyway, you get to beat him up and and he gives you some money after you defeat this dragon and everything. um At this point in the game, in the original version, this whole part in the sewers, Ramis doesn't do anything. He just runs around and hides and like takes hits. 02:27:16.38 Adelaide Yeah. 02:27:17.12 Jala And in the remake, because you have Luna and because this the like Alex doesn't have magic in the remake, everybody can attack. And so everybody has agency. um But like I liked the fact that in the original version, Ramis was ineffective. And then like after this, he splits. And he's no longer in your party, because he's like, I'm not cut out for this adventuring thing. because he doesn't have any magic. 02:27:36.78 Adelaide Yeah. 02:27:37.37 Jala I mean, like that makes sense. 02:27:38.35 Adelaide Yeah. 02:27:38.61 Jala And, and that, that is, that's sure a thing. But at the same time, the gameplay of that is not as good as having the feeling of having him in the party. And like the way that they iterate on Ramus is not really supposed to be an adventurer is he only gains hit points after a certain point. And then He stops getting anything. He just levels up and nothing happens. 02:27:58.82 Adelaide Yeah. 02:28:00.46 Jala And everybody else has stuff happen. 02:28:00.83 Adelaide Uh. 02:28:01.98 Jala like He has already reached the max potential he's going to reach. And he has nothing else to give you um is how they do that. 02:28:05.70 Adelaide Yeah. 02:28:09.42 Jala So ah so yeah, Ramis decides to split to make his fortune in Moribia. And so he takes his money to build a shop. And that's what he's going to go do. Meanwhile, Nashtez says to you, hey, let's go to vain and you can study magic there. So um yeah, in the remake, Ramis ends up buying Dross's shop and um Nash urges Alex to go to vain. 02:28:31.84 Adelaide Yeah. 02:28:35.53 Jala But in this version, it's not to study um magic. Nash is telling him, oh, you need to go meet more of the great heroes who are in vain that are both leaders. You know, since you want to be a dragon master, you should meet Galleon and Lemia. 02:28:47.12 Adelaide Yeah. 02:28:50.53 Jala And they're both in vain. So you should go there. But that this change is important because like in the original version, Alex has magic. And so when he gets through the dungeons and finishes off the boss, Nash is like, hey, you're pretty good at this. Maybe you can study magic. you know But of course, you know ah for the overall story and everything, it's cleaner to have him instead say, oh, there's some more dragon dragon heroes, you know some of the four heroes over there. 02:29:05.01 Adelaide Yeah. 02:29:13.91 Adelaide Right. 02:29:15.21 Jala um 02:29:15.49 Adelaide Yeah. 02:29:16.26 Jala So, I mean, again, a half dozen, a one, six, a whatever, you know, you get, you get me. 02:29:20.91 Adelaide Yeah. 02:29:21.38 Jala I don't, either one is fine. So, so yeah, ah the magic, trick to get there, you have to go through the fountain of transmission. It's only usable by people who are already like in, in doctrine into vain. 02:29:30.75 Adelaide Mm hmm. 02:29:32.96 Jala and to get there you have to go through like a cave of trial. In the original version Luna is not with you of course so you are by yourself in the cave of trial trying to go through and use your one fire spell and one healing spell to get through and beat the the bronze dogs to get to the other side of this thing. 02:29:39.80 Adelaide Yeah. 02:29:51.15 Jala So it's pretty cool. I liked that part in the original game, although it was scary also as an 11 year old playing through and going, I'm by myself, you know, I don't have my healer. But some in the remake, it's a lot easier with Luna and some of the people that are in the cave, like the wizards that oversee the thing will heal you along the way, which is cool. ah They have people that are wandering in the cave like I haven't ever been in there. You know, like i'm I'm never going to come out of here. I'm just going to live here forever. [Show Outro] Jala Jala-chan's Place is brought to you by Fireheart Media. If you enjoyed the show, please share this and all of our episodes with friends and remember to rate and review us on your podcast platform of choice. Word of mouth is the only way we grow. If you like, you can also kick us a few bucks to help us keep the lights on at ko-fi.com/fireheartmedia. Check out our other show Monster Dear Monster: A Monster Exploration Podcast at monsterdear.monster. Music composed and produced by Jake Lionhart with additional guitars and mixed by Spencer Smith. Follow along with my adventures via jalachan.place or find me at jalachan in places on the net! [Outro Music]