[Show Intro] Jala Hey, thanks for coming! I'm glad you're here. Come on in! Everyone's out on the patio right now. Looks like a couple of people are in the garden. I can't wait to introduce you! Can I get you anything? [turned away] Hey folks, our new guest is here! [Intro music] 00:00.00 Jala Hello world and welcome to Jala-chan's Place I'm your host Jala Prendes and today I am very excited to bring to you Lynda and Tim Cowles from D'Avekki Studios. How are you 2 doing today. 00:14.80 Lynda & Tim Hello Jala um, yeah, doing great. Um, yeah, very good. Thank you? How about you. 00:21.98 Jala Well, we were just talking in the green room about temperatures and how hot it's been and you folks have had a heat wave and no Ac So I'm sure I'm I'm probably doing a little bit better because ah where I live. It's always hot Anyway. So. And we definitely are prepared for this weather. 00:40.83 Lynda & Tim Um, we just opened the fridge freezer. It's like I just just standing for the freezer all day. 00:47.37 Jala Ah, yeah, yeah, So so yeah, so dfecty studios for listeners. They are probably all very aware but they are a full motion video game company but they actually began as a murder mystery dinner party game company. And they still produce those. So Um I will actually turn it over to you because I don't want to misspeak and say something Wrong. So I Do want to start by asking like what is the story of how you two began your company. 01:07.45 Lynda & Tim Um, if. 01:13.16 Lynda & Tim Yeah. 01:22.49 Lynda & Tim True you good I'll take that. Ah yeah, no, we started off in 2004 which is quite a while ago and originally it was of the back of a deal we had with the people that were selling murder mystery party games in the u k. 01:40.80 Jala Um. 01:42.15 Lynda & Tim Bv leisure at the time and we approached them and said how would you like us to put Dvd videos into your party games at that time they were they just had cassette tapes in so cassette tapes remember such a thing a mixtape. Yeah. 01:47.95 Jala Um, oh yeah. 01:58.94 Lynda & Tim So that's what they used to be and obviously they were kind of they were excited to get these Dvds into the games we offered to do it for free as long as we could you know write the games for them and and take a royalty for for doing it so that is how the company was originally formed I think it's just of the back of me wanting to. 02:16.94 Lynda & Tim Do filming after doing years and years of programming I finally I don't what how old would I then None yes I was in my eight Twenty s and I thought oh I not want do my life actually I to make films and things. So. 02:31.27 Jala Yeah, so so did you have like was film a hobby of yours or did you have some kind of schooling in that or. 02:38.90 Lynda & Tim No actually um, originally I went to I went to University and got a law degree because I thought I was going to be a lawyer. Um and I did a bit of not all lawyers. But I did some training at a place and it kind of put me off. 02:57.80 Lynda & Tim The the way it was the way the firm was running. It seemed to be It seemed to be about billing people a lot and I was kind of I was young and I thought I could help people I was young and stupid thought I could help people. Um, so then ah after that experience I Kind of. 03:13.63 Lynda & Tim It turned me off that and and the family had already been doing programming for years. My dad and my brother so I just stepped into that from there and we were actually running a family business programming had been for years and we start to get to that point where we could do less days a week and instead of. 03:17.80 Jala Awesome! Well a passion project like that is always just fun to pursue when you have the time and just. 03:30.18 Lynda & Tim Playing golf for what I wanted to make films. 03:41.30 Jala If you have more availability to work on that and then for you to turn around and then turn that into hey this is actually a new company that I'm making that's very cool. 03:49.14 Lynda & Tim Yeah I mean Lynda was working at a hospital at the time I think was it? yeah yes yeah yeah left there so you you worked. It's just a few months before he joined me in in de bey and. We we open retail stores at the same time actually online retail stores and one of the stores sold murder mystery games so that we could kind of work out from the front lines what people wanted as well. You know what the customers were looking for not just pushing from the back. 04:14.24 Jala Hey that's awesome that that's actually very very smart. So why Murder Mystery party games. 04:24.16 Lynda & Tim Um, I mean it was really that opportunity that came up, you swatted an opportunity for something that could have benefited from phils but we we had played 1 um with our family a couple of years before that. Um. 04:40.20 Lynda & Tim So you know, um obviously we'd had a lot of fun. You get to dress up. You got all the photos from it um get to embarrass everyone. Um so it was more just I think you know they say spoting a gap in the market or whatever um, seeing that opportunity to combine I mean. 04:59.37 Lynda & Tim Writings where I sort of wanted to focus I've always wanted to focus so and Tim obviously likes writing as well. So it. It's something that could combine both those interests that we could get. Make films. You know, write the scripts make the films and also write the games. Um and it seemed like it would be a lot fun. 05:17.88 Jala Um, yeah, yeah for sure so I have done a murder mystery party game all of 1 time it was a special birthday edition. Um, many years ago at this point and it was at a winery. 05:33.16 Lynda & Tim Right. 05:34.81 Jala And so they gave you dinner and all this other stuff and of course you had a part to play and it was so funny because most of the people that were there did not know how to actually be in character and so it was a very very fun exercise of a bunch of people awkwardly trying to role play and failing miserably. 05:51.45 Lynda & Tim Yeah. 05:54.26 Jala Um, but we did get to dress up and my part was to be um, a contestant in a beauty pageant on the ship and so I had to wear like a a very fancy dress and like a T R and like you know like a banner you know saying you know. 06:10.41 Jala Pride of the whatever you know whatever the ship's name was and stuff so I got this Barbie pink dress and I went and I did the thing and then it was great because not only I was saying oh I hope I'm the murderer and I was. And not only was I the murderer but also I was voted best dressed so I got a free bottle of wine out of it. 06:26.18 Lynda & Tim Best stress matter. Yeah I mean if you're going to commit Murder you might as well be stylish doing it. 06:31.60 Jala Exactly so that's that's the 1 time I got to do a murder mystery party game because unfortunately like my interest in that kind of thing came out right about the time that also pandemic stuff was a thing and you know continues and so you know like I live with immunocompromised. 06:44.98 Lynda & Tim Right? right. 06:51.45 Jala Elderly parents and I take care of them So I obviously have to be really careful about you know what I do at um at my house Anyway, um you know I'd have to be wearing a mask if I went to one at this point Unfortunately, but that's part of what drew me to your video games when you started releasing those especially. 06:54.20 Lynda & Tim Yeah. 07:10.85 Jala When I heard that Dr Dekker had like love crafty and elditch horror in the background kind of stuff going on and I was like oh that sounds really cool I have to check it out. 07:22.27 Lynda & Tim Yeah, cool. Yeah I think a lot of people played them over the pandemic as well because you you get to hang out with the patients lovely bunch that they are but we had a lot of games. Actually we had a lot people played by Zoome and Skype and stuff over the pandemic the murder mystery games. 07:40.55 Lynda & Tim Didn't actually kind of get together. They just got together over zoom meetings and things so we had a bit of a spike in kind of download sales. So just just to be clear. We don't we don't make the murder mystery party. Um, we don't write for other people anymore we make our own ones now and kind of like 7 or but 7 eight years ago 07:59.15 Lynda & Tim We started our own kind of flexi party Murderisty Flexi Party brand which was different to all the other ones because it didn't matter how many players turned up and the murderer has chosen randomly at the beginning of the game. So it's kind of it's enabled groups to gather without worrying if people might drop out or couldn't make it all. 08:18.28 Lynda & Tim Whatever it's um, it was good to see people still playing. We're getting people sending kind of screen caps to their Zoom sessions and things. Yeah I mean yeah, it's good. We still get people send photos now. Yeah and costume and stuff I mean that flexible aspect of the murder mission games um is actually. 08:24.40 Jala Um, oh that's really cool. So. 08:38.40 Lynda & Tim Fed into the FMV games because of course in Dr Dekker and shapeshift and in murderous muses. We have a um, flexible murderer so to avoid spoilers on the internet. 08:47.85 Jala Um, oh yeah, oh yeah, and that's actually something that when I None played this game I talked about it on the level podcast that's under duckfeed tv or so or the levelpodcast dot com and i. 09:00.58 Lynda & Tim And that's. 09:06.66 Jala Was head of our heels in love with the game and then I also was like oh Cole you have to stream this on hex crank which is his live streaming weekly live streaming of horror games thing and so I was like oh oh oh this is this has Lovecraftian horror and it fits you can do it. 09:26.57 Jala So He did and I was just having so much fun seeing what he picked versus what I picked because um I kind of wavered between I'm going to be a good psychiatrist and. Also I'm going to Encourage. Everybody's delusions at the same time. So like I would go back and forth throughout the entire game because it just depended upon what mood it was when I picked up my game again and so you know I was interested to see what he did and he was very much trying to keep everybody calm and and you know. 09:55.81 Jala Like play the good psychiatrist and I was like oh that's so weird. This didn't happen in my game and it was It was so much fun to watch like everything unfold and then here I was furiously typing in the chat going like that's not what happened to me This is what happened and you know so it did generate a lot of. Just fun discussion within the Community. So. 10:16.33 Lynda & Tim I Mean that's interesting because yeah I think a lot of people obviously did want to help the patients but at the same time if they're saying something that's um, very weird. Very strange. You kind of it's very tempting to sort of pull on that thread and see what falls out. 10:30.75 Jala Oh yeah, oh yeah, it's like I want to be I want to play this like I would actually do oh actually? no I I'm kind of curious what happens here So in the way. 10:40.80 Lynda & Tim Yeah. 10:44.24 Jala Do that theoretically would be to do ah a quote unquote good playthrough and then a quote unquote chaotic playthrough and then just you know, go 100% in one or the other direction but that's not what I did I just kind of depending on my mood each day. It would just change so but anyhow, um, that's neither here. 10:48.51 Lynda & Tim Yeah. 11:02.98 Jala Or there so you both have a history. It is my understanding with FMV games. 11:07.37 Lynda & Tim Yeah, um, where we started playing them when we were dating way back in the early 90 s um and I actually bought Tim Underling moon text murphy under Achily Moon for whatever birthday. It was can't remember. 11:25.66 Lynda & Tim None birthday or something. Um, and I think that was the one we were planning in your university dorm room. Um, so and then we we just loved it. We loved the whole. Um I mean back then it was just such a. Unusual and an exciting thing to have film in games on your computer screen is obviously just completely commonplace now with the Youtube and Tiktok and everything but um, it was just. It really? what it it sounds cliche but it really was like you were playing a you know playing a movie and influence in the movie. So we we played under kill moon there was things like police quest and fantastic mcorry and whatever pcf and v games. We could get our hands on ripper and. Lot of horror themed ones but gabron night Gabrielle Knight too was one of the best. Yeah I mean I was a big fantastic macgoria fan as well. Yeah, no fantastic andgoria was very good and obviously ah David Holton um who played Don in Phantasmagoria. 12:39.48 Lynda & Tim Um, yeah, did a voice did a voiceover in dark nights with Poe & Munro so and tacked Murphy did a voiceover in the shapeshifting. Yeah, ah. 12:47.50 Jala Ah, how does that feel to have people that you'd seen in these games that you were playing that influenced your later work. How did that feel like actually getting those people to work on your games. 12:59.26 Lynda & Tim Very surreal. Very yeah, kind of surreal. Um, and um I mean the the thing with Tex Murphy that was it. He was not particularly easy person to get um and. When he did agree to um, do a voiceover in shapeshifting detective. We had people reading out um short stories on the radio station that played and she was sort of deciding what to do next. So he read out one of those stories. Um. And so we spent I think it was our none wedding anniversary. Yeah, writing a story for Chris Jones aka Tex Murphy to read in our fmv game. So that's our sort of little. Yeah fun story. 13:42.60 Jala Um, oh my. That's so awesome. Wow, That's really really awesome. Yeah. 13:54.20 Lynda & Tim David David Home was a lot funnier David Home some is it lots of of video messages. It's hilarious I can't obviously share them. But it's ah yeah, he did his voice over via video. Um. 14:01.40 Jala Um, oh that's very good because then you can see all the facial expressions and everything as well. 14:10.50 Lynda & Tim Yeah, is it's great. He release his book of poetry now as well David home so there was that was written when he was filming. Yeah yeah, so ah, a rich and weird history of Fmv playing and then. Kind of managing to get people that were in the games that we we really liked I mean daughter de Dean Erickson yeah Dean Erickson is plays the one of the lead roles in gabra night too plays ka night plays gabra. Um. And weirdly I'm Facebook friends with them. But we've never spoken. That's how the internet was just how. 14:47.81 Jala Um, yeah for sure. So. Um, yeah, it's kind of interesting I was reflecting on Fmv as a genre of video game because of course I am a host on a video games podcast the level and so I was really thinking about it and Fmb really was super. 15:15.49 Jala Cutting edge at the time that it was released especially because graphics just were not at that fidelity at that time and just ah the amount of cost that it would take to get anything remotely like what an Fmb game could do would just be astronomical. 15:32.61 Lynda & Tim Yeah. 15:34.32 Jala And Impossible technically at that time like you know the f and B was just like a natural shoe in at that time to get that kind of immersive experience that a lot of game developers were looking for and there have been other. 15:46.60 Lynda & Tim They had huge sorry it just gonna say yeah and they had huge budgets um things like you know, wing commander and ripper and they were they were like massive Hollywood movies. 15:54.28 Jala Um, yeah, and there have been some attempts in different formats of trying to recapture like an fmv style game in a different medium. That's not a video game like. There was ah that weird period where on Dvds people would put like little f and b games that you choose by pushing buttons on your remote and that just kind of never went anywhere because that was always like a random optional extra on the Dvd that. 16:20.13 Lynda & Tim Yeah, yeah. 16:28.26 Jala You know that that didn't have any budget behind it so it never turned into anything big and then there were also some companies that released games that were interactive movies where you would go to a movie theater and everybody in the audience that was watching the movie would push a button to decide and vote for what. 16:47.40 Jala Ah, happened next and that also is kind of like a weird ah kind of pull because not everybody that goes to a movie theater is somebody who also wants to like play an interactive video game. So that's like a really niche thing but FMV video games have continued to thrive and there's been kind of like a revival especially in the last several years for FMV as a medium and that's really interesting. 17:13.11 Lynda & Tim Yeah I mean really, we're talking ah since about 2015 which is when her story and contradiction came out. Um, yeah, there's been more and more um and you can now you know take take this year and I think there's been. 17:32.37 Lynda & Tim Obviously there's ah ah, lots of smaller ones but None or five fmv releases I think already or or you know imminent. Um, which is it which is a lot in this very niche genre. You know it's gone from very very few and then literally. 1 or 2 maybe a year um that there's a lot more people making them and and very successfully or so it's really good to see that it's it's obviously it's a niche area that has a lot of fans. Um. 17:58.11 Jala Um, yeah in. Well and then and then two it's I feel like every time a new fmv game comes out. Everybody's paying attention to it. It's not like oh there's another indie game that was made an rpg maker. Not all of those get any kind of. Press or anything but like an Fmb game. Everybody's looking at it like oh what's this it seems like maybe leave my circles I don't know but it it feels that way to me. 18:26.14 Lynda & Tim Yeah, yeah. Ah, it's It's getting a bit more diluted now I think it's not the magic bullet for marketing to release a game with video in it if you if you look at the steam f and B tag. That's there's probably I mean I look at it every day but there's probably some some that. 18:48.10 Lynda & Tim You haven't noticed or gone by you know, got past the radar because I don't know perhaps ah not getting the the media coverage or um, just for whatever reason there's there are that there are a few I mean on on seeing stuff on there which I Ah. Didn't know was going to arrive until the day. It's actually been released. Um, so which is which is which is good that you know that that there's more of it around really? So Um I mean Vegas tales have you heard of that game. 19:13.39 Jala Um. I Have not. 19:21.42 Lynda & Tim Yeah, it came up months ago and I think last time we looked at um about 5 or 6 reviews. But um, that's kind of like a murder mystery on a couch type interface as well. Which is essentially what we do I think it is also it's one of those things that's quite accessible to people. So um, you can. 19:40.73 Lynda & Tim And and there are there are various methods you can use Now. There's software available and systems Available. You can use to sort of drop in your videos that you've filmed on your iphone and you know add some choices. Um. And and make an interactive movie. There's quite a few ways to do that. So It is um, perhaps seen as ah, an easy way in if you don't want to do any heavy programming. Um. 20:11.85 Jala Um, yeah, yeah, so like I for example, like it's weird I think Fmb as a genre even has its own subgenres like I know that I got in recently when I was trying to do like a little bit more. 20:15.36 Lynda & Tim To produce something that's interactive. 20:31.66 Jala Um, extensive dive into the genre I was starting to play some f and V phone games that are like murder mysteries but they're specifically about interacting with a phone because you're on your phone when you're playing it like simulacra for example and. 20:48.90 Jala You know that's ah that's a fun game but it's got like a certain one trick to it. That's kind of like the trick in each one of the installments for it more or less with some some differences and stuff. But you know it's all about finding a lost phone and and trying to figure out where the person who owned it went and all of that. Um. And that's interesting that it's It's got a subgenre that is tied specifically to like what interface you're using like what what device you're using to interact with the game. 21:19.19 Lynda & Tim There was a there was a doctor who won wasn't there that came out very recently that they used that sort of found phone same developers are yes they did. They have this from developers of Simaca. Um. Can't remember what it was called off the top of my head. But yeah. 21:37.40 Jala Well just the fact that there's like ah and a number of them that you can think of and you know like there's there's other ones as Well. Just the you know simulacra was the last one that I played So um, that's just really interesting to me I kind of wonder if. There's going to be some kind of um, new form of that in the future. You know? So since so far right now. Everybody's using their phone or they're using like a Pc or a tablet or something to play their games on um, hand consoles. But. You know, like that's kind of not there. There's nothing super interesting people have done with consoles more or less since on the playstation when they did metal gear where um, during one of the boss fights like your controller does certain things. Whatever Anyway, anyway, that's neither here nor there. 22:31.93 Jala Ah, getting off track there so you guys have loved fmv games for a long time but we were okay, you were already making those murder mystery games. What made you decide that you wanted to start making video games. 22:32.83 Lynda & Tim That. 22:43.88 Lynda & Tim Um I think it's always been there in the background or wouldn't it be cool to you know because we love playing the f and v game so much. Um, in the 90 s and because of Tim's interest in film and you know his background in programming then. Guess it was always something that oh yeah, that'd be really cool to do but you know we couldn't do the 3 d environments. We didn't have the budget or the you know the the team to be able to do that. Um, and it was really what gave us the push was um. Saying in 2015 her story and contradiction came out and we played those games and they were all completely video. There was no three d environment. There was no, you know, um and that was really like well we could do this. 23:38.69 Lynda & Tim Um, we we can definitely do this So that was really what? um gave us that nudge to sort of say Well yeah, okay, what if we did that. Um and it's exactly Yes, we started sort of um. 23:46.55 Jala You have the will you have the way you just have to make it happen sounds like. 23:57.82 Lynda & Tim You know talking about ideas and what that might look like and um, that became Dr Dekker 24:04.70 Jala So what? what did the process look like when you were starting your first fmv game like did you talk to fmv developers and see what how they do their thing or did you just go. Okay, ah go. 24:19.56 Lynda & Tim Yeah, yeah, it was the okay, go here I'm sure there are that many around? Yeah um I mean obviously um, budget was a big constraint for us. So um, obviously Dr Dekker you've got. 24:23.90 Jala Ah, right. 24:36.90 Lynda & Tim It's shot in one room. You've got the patients. Ah, you know they're all sitting on the same sofa and that that was our constraint so we we knew we needed something that we would be able to film. Um on a low budget and it was actually ah adapted from one of Tim's scripts um that he'd written for was it a Tv series I started writing a Tv series called just simply called Catthullu and so yeah, no inspiration there at all and it was one of the scripts with them Actually Mariana was not the none script. Um, no. 25:00.43 Jala Awesome. 25:13.45 Lynda & Tim No professor alderby was the none script in that seriess to kind of set the scene for expanding your mind to the thought that you could just think things and then yeah and then it was marianana and there I think was only like a none page script because it meant to be like a 10 minute short that you that you might. On Youtube or hornet or somewhere like that and really we thought well we've got couch in that because we've only got some characters. It's quite interesting. It was if you could talk to them. Yeah, the script was um, you know of a patient talking to their therapist about these strange things that happened so it was. 25:53.10 Lynda & Tim Taking that and expanding it and um and adapting it and sort of thinking. Well how can a player interact with that and obviously we added more patience and um the typing mechanic. Um. 26:09.84 Lynda & Tim Which I think we probably didn't realize at the time. How ambitious that was. But. 26:11.82 Jala Oh yeah, it's It's a lot. But again again, if you were looking at contradiction and her story for you know some kind of reference point her story has that same kind of thing so you know you're typing in Keywords and stuff to try to see what videos you can find so. You know that makes sense. But yes, once you open up that can of worms and you're committed to it then you're like oh wow, there's a lot to to to parsing this? yeah. 26:40.35 Lynda & Tim Yes, yeah, um, and this obviously is um, one of the main criticisms criticisms Dr Dekker received obviously it's had really really good reviews and great feedback. Um, but you know one of the niggles for so for quite a few people is you know sometimes it doesn't always respond to what you've typed in. Um, which is a limitation obviously of that that interface it can be difficult. We try to put in. Um. System so that if you if you typed in something that would could potentially um, flag 2 responses. It would let you know that you know the patients will say well I'm a bit confused. What could you clarify? Um, so. 27:30.40 Jala Well, it's it's hard because that's language is something that's always changing and growing and whatever and there's just no way to anticipate every manner in which someone will phrase a question. 27:48.88 Jala So that's that's kind of like a big monumental task in and of itself to just figure out. You know what? what possible words would lead to this video triggering or something you know like that's that's tough. 28:01.50 Lynda & Tim Did did you did you play it with the keyboard or with the dropdown questions I say hat is the yeah to is a dropdown. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 28:06.10 Jala I was on the switch and I had to use the little switch screen to type in. Ah so yes, oh so yeah, but um. 28:18.47 Lynda & Tim Yeah, know it was good that we put that I mean that can we put that in before it was ported to consoles so it was I think it was helpful. Some people have said to me since that they couldn't finish the game without it. So I mean to it. 28:32.44 Lynda & Tim On the bright side. We've developed a rogue like fmv game which I think is a new genre. Ah. 28:35.55 Jala Yeah, yeah for sure. So so then um, how did it look like when you were doing all the filming and stuff was that kind of you already got that under the belt because you already were doing these murder mystery party games. 28:51.79 Jala Was that just like oh that's fine. No no big deal on that end or what did you discover new challenges. 28:56.17 Lynda & Tim um um I mean we'd we'd actually finish making the we weren't making videos for the mer machine games anymore. Um, by that point but we'd also done Tim had done a feature film. We'd done a sit comp pilot. Um various bits and pieces. Over the years so um it was very different to things we've done before though it I mean one of the actors who came in for deca said it was a acting boot camp because they all had they all shot their scenes in a day. Unless they were unless there were technical issues they had to come back? Yeah, um, but yeah, there was a lot of content there and um so getting through it. Um and getting what you needed which was again, you know was was part of the requirements of the budget. We. 29:53.64 Lynda & Tim Couldn't afford to spend days on it. Um, so we needed to ah point the camera at them and and and press record and they needed to say the lines and yeah were done. We thought about 3 people are going to buy at that stage and that that was us. Yeah I mean we had no idea. 30:01.33 Jala Go get it all? Yeah yeah. 30:13.40 Lynda & Tim Had no idea where you know, um, if anyone will want it or or how well it'll do It's the none time we used autoquee on one of our own shoots. So I've used autocub but before for kind a live Tv directing but never on None of our own shoots but because there were so so many responses. Um, a lot to be fair, most of the actors had learned all their lines and in fact I can reveal that I'm not going to say who didn't I can reveal that Helen Jenkinson who um, played Elin played Elin she was the none actor in. She smashed all the way through it. No water. You didn't even have one at that point. Yeah yeah was the none patient that we filmed. Yeah, she did finish and say it was acting book so she was the one who called it acting but she she notes we should let the actors out at least once during performance but that was it I think she was fine. I mean I've spoken to her at least last year she's alive it's all good. 31:11.28 Jala Well that that's that's ah, fun though in in that like you know they they get everything all in None shoot so they get into their role. They go for it and you know there's there's not that kind of time and space for maybe some differences. Ah, of character to develop like I would imagine that if you are as you continue to play a certain character over a larger span of time then there would be naturally some changes that occur over time is what I would think is that is that I might just be completely blowing hot air I don't know. 31:48.65 Jala I Don't know about that but I would think just from playing role playing stuff on tabletop and the one time I went to the murder mystery game. 31:57.94 Lynda & Tim Ah, about me it was there was a 5 act structure to deca so they had their character arcs and that studied them so you you know Ashton did a great job going from happy go lucky beginnings to dark and deathly endings just in the in. Yeah in the 6 hours or so she was here. So. 32:11.60 Jala Yes, yes. 32:17.91 Lynda & Tim Um, I mean weak I didn't have much chance to direct if that's what you're asking if it wasn't what we wanted. It was tough was I Okay yeah because it was you'd make adjustments. Yeah yeah, but you can actually say all that isn't the character I was looking for because we we we didn't have any um rehearsals or anything beforehand. So yeah, but I think we. 32:28.50 Jala Yeah, yeah. 32:37.29 Lynda & Tim Because of that you know we we were very lucky we we obviously we did audition. Um, we put out cast in and and and those people auditioned um and we picked who we thought were best for a role and I think we got very lucky because they. They all did really well they all portrayed very different characters. They all came across really well on screen and you know we've had a good reaction to Them. You know everyone sort of has their favorite character. Um, and you know, um. 33:10.41 Lynda & Tim We've had comments in reviews like Dr Dekker was masterclass in acting and won awards for acting um or at least nominations. Um, so it's as a yeah, you know we feel lucky I think we we ah. 33:28.40 Jala you you I will say you you folks pulled it off really well on you know, hey this is our None stab at trying to do this thing. It doesn't look like a None endeavor at all. It doesn't feel like a None endeavor it. It's solid and that's why. 33:28.52 Lynda & Tim We did? well. 33:40.26 Lynda & Tim Yeah, thank you. 33:47.30 Jala Um, when it came to discussing. Um, you know these these games overall like all of your games. It was just like no this is actually I think this is probably some of my favorite FMV games that I have ever played. I think it's partially because. 33:59.80 Lynda & Tim Wow. 34:04.27 Jala Each one of them so far has had that kind of in the background looming eldritch Lovecraftian horror thing but like not on screen. It's got that Hitchcocky and don't show the monster but it's there and don't explain everything but you know you know something else is going on. That's bigger than you. 34:09.72 Lynda & Tim Yeah, yeah. 34:15.21 Lynda & Tim Yeah, that that there's more that coming that is Murderous Muses. Yeah yep. 34:24.61 Jala Yay I was going to ask if that was part of Murderous Muses. So so we will get to Murderous Muses. But I do want to ask? How did the process change because you definitely changed your user interface on every installment that you've done of these games. So how. How did the process change when you went to shapeshifting detective and then from there to Dark Nights with Poe & Munro. 34:50.37 Lynda & Tim Um, well we we had to um, we had the luxury of a ah, slightly bigger budget. Um than we did for Dr Dekker um still very very small budget still provided by ourselves. Yeah, and that nobody's ever given us any money. Yeah, ah. Ah, piggy bang. We decided to open yeah the purse string. Um, so we you know we just why shapeshifting detective who got more locations. We actually we hired a manor house for a week which was violets's guest house so we could film people there. 35:29.76 Lynda & Tim Um, which was ah interesting because we we packed far too much filming into that week yeah um are still filming the corridors at 3 in the morning that day we were leaving going around with a gimbal. It was inside. Um. 35:49.21 Lynda & Tim So we yeah, um, slightly bigger caste more locations and I suppose opening out the the world and the story more. So um, Dr Dekker had that very claustrophobic feel you never saw outside the you know the. The psychiatrist's office. Um, you only heard what the the patients were telling you and with shapeshift and and Pearl Monroe which are both set in the same you know world of August um, we got to explore that more and um. Introduce different characters and places and um, just sort of create more of a world I mean sorry shapeshift was the none game we used inc as well. Which is ah a backend branching narrative tool. 36:41.58 Lynda & Tim So we we wrote the holder shapeshift in ink before we filmed it which meant that you could play test the game as a kind of choose your own adventure like game and that ink was actually used to choose which videos to play as well. So as part is part of the end game and. Pa Monroe also uses things so it's the none time we'd we'd used a kind of narrative interactive fiction tool to to help us plot and plan and again to be fair. There was a lot more branching in those those last None games than there was in Dr Tucker 37:11.60 Jala Well and I was going to mention that Dr Dekker feels more like more similar to Her Story and Shapeshifting Detective feels more like Contradiction insofar as just how it's presented and you know what you get to see and things like that and because her story of course you're just watching videos you're sitting in None place and it's it's a static location and with Contradiction you are moving around a town solving a case and the fun connection. There too is of course Rupert Booth who is the you know Jenks in Contradiction was your detective Dupont so that's. 37:54.24 Lynda & Tim Ah, yeah. And he's back. He's back for this one as well. He's back from users. He's a good guy. Yeah, definitely a friend of D'Avekki. 38:06.50 Jala Yeah I saw that the other day on Twitter that's very cool, very cool. So. 38:17.67 Lynda & Tim Saying about um, working with people in in fmv games we played I did have this one surreal moment when I was walking through um, our village one with film in shapeshifting detective I was walking through the village with reput booth and he was wearing the hat and the coat machines and that was. 38:34.90 Lynda & Tim Like well yes I'm walking along ah through a village with cnks that I'm in the video game. Yeah, but. 38:37.47 Jala Ah, that is very neat that is very very Neat. So Very Cool. So So when you were doing shapeshifting detective you had um a very different interface for people playing it I thought that the premise of that was just. So fun. The fact that you can just change into someone else of course then it made it weird and uncomfortable when you would go up to somebody and be pretending to be someone Else. You know you have taken on the physical. Yeah, and then you get like proposed to and it's not for you actually and then. 39:06.25 Lynda & Tim Causing trouble. Yeah. 39:12.75 Jala You know that's a very complicated situation to find yourself in So um, unexpected, interesting weird uncomfortable feelings. You know like a personal horror. Ah, let's say you know on the on the on the part of the person who was supposed to have received that message and did not. 39:29.88 Lynda & Tim Yes. 39:31.51 Jala You know what? what kind of situation will they find themselves in when they actually see this person again that that was my my personal anxiety I was like oh wow. 39:35.67 Lynda & Tim That Yeah, what we want to do is make the ah make the film the aftermath when everyone meets up again and says wait. But you said I mean he did a better up. 39:46.70 Jala Ah, that would be a very yeah that would be a very neat easter egg or like a bonus thing you know like on a Youtube somewhere you know like extra content like this is the follow up. You know? So anyway. 39:58.96 Lynda & Tim And again that I mean that came out of um, just trying to think of new ways to interact. Um, you know you you have a murder mystery game and and sometimes you think it. It can be a bit um you know Murder Mysteries can be a bit Formulaic. You go around you question people. Etc, etc. Um, so it was just thinking of what could we change? Um, and what if it's not about what you ask people but who you are when you ask them? um. 40:35.13 Lynda & Tim And and really we just like the name the shapeshifting detective it sounded like a game that should be made. So yeah, once the name came that was like you know we've got to make that now. 40:39.90 Jala Ah, yeah, like hey this wasn't already taken. That's weird. You know. Well, that's that's really cool. So then when you were doing poem Monroe like of course those characters are in shapeshifting detective. But then I kind of feel like they really they they do a little bit of growing as characters by the time they get to their own named game. You know. Um, like they had their interactions down and everything but it feels their characterization feels stronger in dark nights with poem Monroe um, it's my understanding that you decided to come up with that because you were having dinner with those people is that correct. Do I remember that correctly. 41:20.40 Lynda & Tim Yeah, ah, they were doing the Christmas yeah were doing all playy to play through a shapesship. Yeah, they're here for that and we also did a Christmas message for adventure gamers when they were here and yeah, we were just we were having dinner. 41:39.40 Lynda & Tim After that and I think um, we're just they're discussing the industry and um, we just we thought it would be nice for them to have their own video game I mean in our defense we thought that it would be a small. 41:57.64 Lynda & Tim Palette cleanser between games. We thought we're just you know we just knock up these few episodes. It'll be a nice little fun game. Um, and obviously it it unraveled unraveled. Ah yeah into our biggest budget and longest game to deliver like yes yeah. Um, but yeah I mean obviously the radio show in in shapeshifting detectives called dark nights with permaroe and um, it always felt like there was quite a lot to explore there. Um, and the characters of per Monroe in shapeshifting detective come in quite near the end. So the none game did. Give us that opportunity to really delve into their characters and their relationship and and it's set before shapeshift so you see them. You see them get on. They're quite happy together and it gets slightly darker towards the end as all our games do um as they head into the shapeshifting detective which is. 42:54.69 Lynda & Tim When all sorts things happens to their their relationship. So it was You did not know as a prequel. Yeah. 42:56.66 Jala I did not know that that one was actually yeah I didn't know that was a prequel that's actually pretty cool. That's now I got to go back and replay them again and you play them in book. 43:05.48 Lynda & Tim Yeah, it was kind of an it's kind of a necessity because of a certain thing that can happen in the shape. Yeah in detective We don't want to make anything can and too quickly. Yeah, so we thought well yeah, we'll just put this one before. 43:13.99 Jala Yeah, yeah, um. Well I will say I also wrangled Kole on Duckfeed into doing a live stream of Poe & Munro as well. So like I have not got him on The Shapeshifting Detective for some reason I don't know how that ended up not getting played on there yet. But you know that's that's on the queue to bug him about. Ah. 43:42.17 Lynda & Tim Ah, you you can loop for quite a long time in the shapeshifting detective I think Dekker and Poe & Munro are kind of more drive you forward whereas in shapeshift you can go around rooms and ask people stuff endlessly. Really um before you hit the cab and go to the next. 43:56.74 Jala I will so I will say Poe & Munro, in that one I love the charisma of the characters like they are not nice people. But I like to see them doing things and interacting with each other and it's great because they just ah particularly Klemens does such a good job with Poe just being you know at the times when he's creepy. He just happens to tilt his head in just the right way and the lighting is just so and he says it in just such a way that it is just very creepy and it's like oh I don't know what to think about this man at all. Actually you know like you might have liked him up until you know so and their interactions are just so good and they got such a good back and forth rapport that I would just kind of infinitely play more games that are just episodic. Poe & Munro forever and ever I would love to play all of them. So. 44:48.70 Lynda & Tim Ah I mean it so is one of the things. Lots of people say is just they they love the chemistry between the None characters. But I mean those scenes where clemens gets to go. Um, you know? ah. Explore his dark side po dark side. Yeah I think secretly or perhaps not so secretly the clemens page just vening is basic vening his reality into those world clemens. Actually I'd like to see him play the villain because I think he could do I think that. 45:21.59 Lynda & Tim It absolutely does it justice when I saw him doing some of those scenes in um, in Poe & Munro I really thought he wanted to kill 1 rowe at that point car. No car car we doing in Klemens. Yeah, no, hes. 45:36.51 Lynda & Tim He's absolute professional. He's definitely got a look a proper horror vibe I think when when he's horror. So yeah, it's but he like said grand and poe. Yeah yeah, Klemens like that big for public. Yeah. 45:48.60 Jala Yeah, for sure and also of course Aislynn I believe that's her how her name is pronounced Ashland okay see this is why I ask people usually? ah okay so. 46:00.70 Lynda & Tim Aislynn no no worries sorry yeah she's had Aislynn. So it's all good. 46:08.50 Jala Okay, okay, Aislynn. Okay, so um, Aislynn is obviously a recurring act actress in each of these games pops up and every single one of them is going to be in murderous muses as well. She has her own very good stage presence and charisma to where a lot of times. Um. 46:18.68 Lynda & Tim Yeah. 46:28.10 Jala At least within the community I'm in. She's definitely like 1 of the top favorite actress character. Whatever you know presence is on the screen. Let's put it that way presences on the screen. So oh and I did have a listener question. It's a facetious question but in Dr Dekker 46:34.97 Lynda & Tim Yeah, yeah. Is it. 46:46.77 Jala Is Mariana actually a mermaid. You don't have to answer it. 46:47.85 Lynda & Tim oh oh yeah yeah I mean Siren let's say yeah make of that what you will yeah make of that what you will which is which is how we like to play it. 47:03.81 Jala Oh yeah, for sure I like that the whole point and of of the kind of horror in your games has is that you like you don't know 100% what you're even dealing with and that's very effective. So. 47:15.61 Lynda & Tim No, we we try not to ever say this is what is going on would rather you know a lot of the times we just drop hints some more subtle than others but and and and the player gets to sort of. 47:32.57 Lynda & Tim Their imagination gets to run away a little bit. Um and they get to put 2 and 2 together and make five and that's fine. We love that? Yeah, um, we've heard some ah great theories you know on forums and things from fans about what's going on and. 47:51.76 Lynda & Tim Um, how this connects with that and I mean that's that's part of the fun and everyone gets to sort of draw their own conclusions. 47:54.76 Jala Oh yeah, well and then too I'm sure that's super fun for you to go and and look at too because you're like oh that's what they wow That's an interesting take I wouldn't have thought of that you know so. 48:05.80 Lynda & Tim Yeah, oh that's absolutely what we meant? No um, yeah, um, yeah, no, it's um, it. It's yeah, it's really really cool. Actually. 48:20.71 Lynda & Tim That people sort of think about your your story so much that that's what they? um they want to sort of build theories about it. 48:28.62 Jala Yeah, like I am a fine arts painter among various things that I am and-- 48:32.92 Lynda & Tim Yeah I've seen your work. It's very good. 48:39.48 Jala Thank you, thank you! So, the thing about that is is this what we're talking about right now with your games and just leaving it open to interpretation is kind of the same thing with art like you don't have words you have only the picture. It's on the gallery wall or whatever people bring to it. Whatever it is that. Their lenses are their experiences are their thoughts their feelings and so when I've gone to gallery shows and been there. You know for of the you reception of the beginning of a show or whatnot just the different ways in which this you know same piece of artwork. Is interpreted by different people and the different things that they notice or or um, you know take from it is always just endlessly fascinating to me because it's just as many people as there are on the planet. There are that many interpretations of that thing that you made so. 49:30.40 Lynda & Tim And that's part of the joy isn't It's a 2 part process where you create and and the creation is fulfilling: fulfilling for you and then you sort of you say well here's what I've made and and then people get to interact with it and and that. As well as ah, you know a form of creation. Um, because they sort of connect with it and um, you know how they respond to it is is kind of it's It's own new thing. 50:02.94 Jala Yeah, yeah for sure and I cannot believe we've gone this long in this episode with only just barely mentioning your new game I think it's just because I was just so excited to talk to you about like your beginnings and your process. Yeah, and just like the games I've already played so far. But you have a new game that you are working on currently that you just finished the filming for called murderous muses. Please tell us more about your new game. 50:27.75 Lynda & Tim Yeah, ah this is the elevate elevator pitch part. Okay, ah I should have practiced this um murders muses is a replayable mode mystery set in a 3 d gallery. 50:33.80 Jala Yeah, yeah, definitely it was elevator pitch tell us. Ah. 50:47.40 Lynda & Tim Where you investigate the murder of a controversial artist by hanging paintings on the wall and bringing them to life. 50:58.71 Jala Ooh That's very cool so where does the title come from. 51:02.62 Lynda & Tim Um, or the all the suspects and the are the musers so more Mordecai Gray is the artist who has been murdered and there's an exhibit at the gallery when you're there and it's a year almost a year since since the murder. 51:06.56 Jala All right. 51:20.56 Lynda & Tim And it's kind of all there. All of Mordecai's works are out and the suspects the none time around were the portraits he was painting so the None suspects the None people that Mordecai was yeah the subjects of his portraits that he was painting. You know, just before he died. Um all ah all the suspects in his murder. So hence murderous muses address muses. It was actually going to originally be called the murderous muses of Mordecar Gray but we just we don't have enough room anymore to put all of our game names. It's very hard to fit it in a tweet and say something about it as well. So it's just murderous muses now. 51:51.38 Jala Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, well, but well that kind of has like a Dorian Gray kind of vibe because it's like the threatening painting you know, um. 51:56.58 Lynda & Tim Ah, which is our shortest game name so far. Yeah. 52:04.81 Lynda & Tim Yes. 52:07.51 Jala More or less I mean not in not in any other way necessarily just like the fact that it is a painting and it is a threat to the person. You know who has it that kind of thing. 52:15.85 Lynda & Tim And that the you know the all this the None suspects are all very different. They all have different motives different stories which is what you uncover um as well as sort of um. Law about it's set on the island of Mel Haven which is a very mysterious eerie island. There's a lot to uncover there. So. It's quite rich in um, narrative as well as being ah a replayable murder mystery we wanted something that um. Wasn't just a solve it and done game. It's got the re. It's got the random murderer that we've used before um and something that each time you played it, you uncovered more story as well. So um, it's really, we've. 53:09.10 Lynda & Tim Built Replay ability in you. You do need to replay it to sort of see everything to find everything to uncover the the truth as it were but you can solve the murder you know in every playthrough and it's a different murder mystery. 53:28.45 Jala That's really cool. That's really cool. 53:28.60 Lynda & Tim Its a different solution every payth through it's the it's the first it's the None game that we've that we're using 3 d environments in so for the None time ever. You can actually walk around walk around. There's not. It's not all on video and you just you know point left or right it's just. 53:45.88 Lynda & Tim It's made in unity. So it's got that none person aspect to it and you you move around and you can actually put you put the puzzle you put the paintings on the wall and they give you a look back into a. Ah conversation that mordecai's had with the suspect. So. That's that's kind of that's how it works and each of those paintings has a certain number of charges. So it's not unlimited. You can't just go around and and get everything all in None saying which is. 54:23.74 Lynda & Tim You can still have a good playthrough in 1 in 1 go you know you don't have to play it multiple times I know that some f and vs come out. You've got to play it multiple times who even work out who the killer is this is a bit kind ofluddo like but there's a lot of um, there's a little kind of character arc and story going on that you can reveal on the way. 54:42.83 Lynda & Tim Essentially and and and sort of unlocking the murder machine unlocking the stories is um in itself a sort of None big puzzle the way we've sort of um, put the gallery together. Um, you know both restricting how much you can. See um, but also how you get to the bits you need in order to solve the murdery. You know it's a puzzle you sort of have to use a little bit of strategy a little bit of um ah perhaps planning to work out the best way to get the information you need. 55:17.20 Jala So you can still even if each of these paintings has like a limited number of charges. You still have somehow made it to where you can still get to some kind of a conclusion of the murder at the end of the game even if you like. 55:20.48 Lynda & Tim You know. 55:34.50 Lynda & Tim ah ah yeah if I mean you've got 1 in 6 chance right? If you if you burn all your chart if you've burnt them all then you can't know but that there's 2 different types of kind of film in the game. 55:34.97 Jala Say you burned all your charges You did not do a very good Strategy. You are doing a chaos playthrough. Ah. Um, okay, okay, okay. 55:54.17 Lynda & Tim You get the you get the flashbacks from Mordecai and there we've got hundreds of those and you you stick a painting on a wall under keyword and that keyword kind of suggests what you're going to get in the film and you'll get an interaction with this with this suspect from history now. 56:12.43 Lynda & Tim There's also another type of video and to unlock those you have to ah you have to basically you have to ask questions in a certain order and then you get to unlock this police interview and it's the police interview. Everyone has None um, all of the suspects have 3 police interviews and by the end of the game. You'll be able to work out who the killer is if you've unlocked those police interviews if you haven't you just had a fun ride. Yeah. 56:37.36 Jala Um, yeah, you had a fun ride and you you can get sort of you can accuse somebody and have no idea what you're doing gotcha. Okay. 56:47.20 Lynda & Tim Yeah, yeah, but otherwise it's kind of it's a game of deduction. So and you deduce by seeing what you can see off those police interviews which re's doing re it's stay the vo for those um interviews so you will You will be getting um quite a few. 57:05.65 Lynda & Tim You eight eighteen rupet both videos if you have successfully played you out to the end to work out who the who the killer is and part a part of the replayability as well is that you um, there's different evidence that you can be shown at so this 3 nights that you spend in the gallery. 57:22.82 Lynda & Tim Um, sort of 3 acts. So you're showing different evidence at the start of each act and that's really what you're using to um, sort of ah pin it on someone is you know? do they have that. 57:41.59 Lynda & Tim The access to that weapon. Do they have you know were they in that particular place at that particular time. So that's what you're trying to pin down and that and that evidence does change from playthrough to playthrough. So that's what we were trying to keep it interesting and. 57:59.15 Lynda & Tim Yeah, we say you not seeing the same thing we've got collectibles for the None time as well. We have characters all paintings. So I don't know if you ever played. Um the cave. Um, but essentially once you've unlocked enough responses for a particular suspect it unlocks another um, painting in another um area of the gallery. 58:19.50 Lynda & Tim And it kind of links the story together easily for you because one of the things. Obviously if you're replaying it and you're finding out different parts of their story in different playthroughs then you might um, you might it might help to have that um, bringing it all together and saying yes this is. 58:38.40 Lynda & Tim This is how those bits go together. Um and and sort of the the chronology of their story. So in the cave where you sort of Fu played us as the twins and then you would you would collect different parts of their Stories. You went away went along to sort of say this happened then this then this. Um, to help you put it together. Well you see them all in order. Basically yeah, so you could work out that all of that Stuff. We've been saying makes sense at some point when you've unlocked all those and they persist. So There's areas of the gallery that persist every playthrough so there's a collectible earns thing where. 59:13.71 Lynda & Tim When you um, solve the puzzle you unlock a puzzle ringam which gives you extra charges and things you'll get your. You'll get your collectible Earn. You can take that upstairs you put it on ah put it on the right pedestal and that unlocks our. Overarching overarching story. So if you weren't happy with how it was all turning out in the None place. We've got another idea where you and you can believe that So there's a lot.. There's a lot gun and murders muses. Um, and we've had a but we've had a lot of fun but in the the 3 D gallery together and obviously doing all the videos. 59:33.74 Jala That's awesome. Awesome. 59:45.40 Lynda & Tim To be essentially years ago we were say years ago like 4 maybe four years ago um we were on holiday and we were just talking about how we could make Dekker easier for people and that is when um Lynda came up with the idea originally to have a gallery. With keywords that you hung paintings on and they gave you responses so instead of you typing the keywords going from dropdown box or whatever you just literally hang a painting on a keyword and that's how you question people so that's kind of where it's come from which means that the um suspects are they're not Dekker patients. 01:00:22.92 Jala Yeah, yeah, yeah, so so there's a couple of questions I have so first off you mentioned that this was on an island so this isn't in the town of August is it the same world still or is it something. 01:00:23.39 Lynda & Tim But they're not normal. Right. 01:00:38.21 Lynda & Tim No, we're we're starting something completely new with this one so we felt that um what we call the Dekker trilogy because they all in those 3 games. They're standalone games but they they have connections to each other and obviously the the world of August does. Figure quite prominently. So with this It's is's potentially the start of a new trilogy. We don't know yet. We've got a we've got ideas for other games that could link to it. Um, and there's a couple of well there's a few things in murderous muses that thread so that could be picked up. Um. For other games if we want to tie them together but like the seeds we planted the seeds. Yes, um, but yeah, this is a new a new setting a new world and yeah, the island of Melhaven I mean it's sort of it didn't start off being an island. Um, but it's again I think it it creates it. 01:01:19.40 Jala Yeah. 01:01:36.57 Lynda & Tim It separates it from the real world. So it's kind of got this quite um, unique feel. Um, this mysterious place that isn't quite um, it's normal, but it isn't quite right? Um, there's a lot of things that. 01:01:56.36 Lynda & Tim But that happen there that are part of the law that the people that live there you know, perhaps um, take for granted but um, so there's a lot. There's a lot of law and and mystery to explore and uncover just in the setting there. Um Moha Moha kind of. 01:02:14.63 Lynda & Tim Just rose out of the sea off the East Coast of England in the 50 s in the 1950 s out of nowhere and it was kind of found um by some fishermen and then inhabited. So what we've got is we're we're decades down the line and now we've had this murder happen in in gallery. Ah agenda in Mohaven and. We developed a load of um paintings for the for the law of the actual town of Melhaven. So for the none time whereas things like August have grown much more organically we had to sit down and come up with the weirdness that is moiven. 01:02:52.67 Lynda & Tim Fairly early on because um, essentially because we wanted to get these None paintings in for you to discover about. Um, why melhaven you know what makes melhaven Mehaven including things like um, they've they've banned everything to do with um the occult kind of. Um, like tarro and anything. The divination is one of the laws. They've got and they're run by a trivre and there's all, there's all this kind of um, all of these local law painters that we created so it it it rounded off much more. Um. 01:03:29.53 Lynda & Tim Thoroughly than we ever have done before and and that was before we'd finalize all the carrots scripts so we get we've got to kind of weave those in a lot more again than we but than we ever have before. So. It's been. Um, yeah, we could actually we could draw on the law instead of um, what we usually do is go away and write and then um. Get carried away and create law and then um, make sure of an overret. Yeah, make sure we haven't contradicted each other um and it. So yeah, it was sort of a a different approach this time. 01:04:00.38 Jala Well, that sounds really really interesting and I had just just have to make the comment that an island that just pops up out of the sea one day that is found by Fisherman is very Lovecraftian and so I'm looking forward to it. 01:04:12.26 Lynda & Tim Um, it's It's very Lovecraftian. Yeah, there's more. There's a bit more to that ah description as well that we're not saying so ah. 01:04:19.34 Jala I'm sure. Yeah well I'm I'm sure and intentionally and it's for me to know when it comes out. So So yeah, so you've already finished the filming now I have no concept whatsoever. So ah, assuming. Course you're writing and everything has to come None and then you do all of your filming and I know you've already been working on the gallery and all of that like where are you in the process of completing this game. 01:04:44.68 Lynda & Tim Um, we're about um, a day from finishing it and about 10 years from finishing out so we're very very close and it will take us until we die. Ah yeah, so we're. 01:04:51.47 Jala But yeah, that's kind of always the way. Yeah, yeah. 01:05:02.86 Lynda & Tim We're still editing the videos. Um, there's obviously quite a lot to get through there. Um, we've got some late voiceovers to do as well. We yeah which we're casting for casting now. Um, and at the moment Monday but they they'll be quite quick to drop in because a lot of it is that if as long as the gather is in place and it's just waiting for content and then. 01:05:22.68 Lynda & Tim Ah, guess as long as we it goes through play tests and we don't hate it and it's ah and nothing falls out. Well oh my god this is terrible. We can't ship this um we we're hoping still to get it out before Halloween this year. Um, which is coincidentally the. 01:05:33.34 Jala Um, awesome. 01:05:39.95 Lynda & Tim Day that Mordecai is murdered so it we're trying to I mean we've got Dekker off. We killed him off Valentine's right so we need one for Halloween ah, all the major holidays. Yeah yeah, ah. 01:05:40.60 Jala Um, ooh. And right, right? Eventually you will cover all of the holidays. Um. 01:05:55.67 Jala That's very good. That's very very good. So um, insofar as like you can you can always patch the game if you really need to later but like okay anyway, so so your user interface changes with each one of your games like. 01:06:05.38 Lynda & Tim Release it now. 01:06:12.44 Jala Course with Dekker you had the text input and everything and then in shapeshifting detective you were physically moving around and then physically changing your form and I think it's interesting that the conceit of that is you have to go back to your room. So nobody sees you. 01:06:26.17 Jala Changing into somebody else before you can you know change to a different person's face and body and everything and then in poem and row you have like this streamlined here's some little buttons with a you know like a symbol or a whatever on it and you have to push those to you know to do the next thing. Um. You keep changing your you. Yeah Ui is that because like you're just curious and wanting to see what happens or is this because of feedback that you've gotten or just aspirations that you you have had for these games. 01:06:54.20 Lynda & Tim I think it's never um, it's never like we want to use this method of interaction. It's more informed by the story in the game we're making so obviously with Dr Dekker you're the therapist and how do you interact? How do we let the players interact with you know. 01:07:13.50 Lynda & Tim With these patients in as freely as they can um so obviously well, we'll let them type questions. Um, and um with Permma Rowe the plan was we wanted it to feel like a Tv show. Um. 01:07:32.96 Lynda & Tim So the the Ui is fairly unobtrusive in that game. We didn't want to have text options on screen. We didn't really want to interrupt the flow of the story too much so it it. 01:07:51.86 Lynda & Tim You know it always comes out of what does the game need. What would best serve this story. Um, yeah, so with murderous muses. Um was say that the idea was always there to to hang paintings on the wall and and that's how you interact and. 01:08:10.87 Lynda & Tim Um, everything's sort of supporting that really plus plus we get to our None tax Murphy game right? So we've we've not had the budget c three d before so we get to write notes and leave them in the environment for the player to find and that's something we haven't been able to do for I mean you. 01:08:29.21 Lynda & Tim Yeah, apparently I'm right we knew it's gonna be choice on screen but we don't want want to be tech. So I think of other ways doing them but and it's not. It's not as if people like telltale have done this a very similar thing before. So it's It's really what's available but whilst trying new things. It's about innovating a lot I Ah can't. 01:08:47.89 Lynda & Tim Ah, just can't stand still really for None conds so trying to do the same thing again. Even though we're talking about doing things like Dekker 2 it will. It will be a bit different. It will possibly still have the the text interface the the interface for Dekker in par Monroe. Was good because she was reading a mind and so we used images there was no words because you didn't have to say she knew what you were thinking so that that was something we sort of um, an idea we wanted to play around with there. Um, yeah, but we just we would get bored. 01:09:25.54 Lynda & Tim Yeah, we would we would get bored if we did the same thing. Yeah. 01:09:27.90 Jala Yeah, yeah, there's definitely fmv companies like whale and whales interactive and things that they just basically have the the template this is how they work and they work like that regularly through a large chunk of the games and and that kind of a thing but having that kind of static interface. It almost feels like it would make it less memorable to play in a way because you know like the way that you interact with something is a large portion of just like ah your muscle memory associated with it or your um. Memories of how you puzzled through and that that approach you know how the user is interacting with your story makes a difference. 01:10:13.82 Lynda & Tim Yeah I mean the 1 thing that whales wanted to get away, get get rid of in shapeshift was the delete button which which was kind of we really wanted the delete button. Yeah, we thought it was ah it was a cool new thing. 01:10:29.96 Lynda & Tim Have got a foot down there. Yeah that that people would have to then wonder whether they should delete this or not because it's something that we haven't really seen in any F and v games up to that point. But I think for for what I was interactive. Obviously they're a publisher as well as um. 01:10:46.34 Lynda & Tim Develop in their own games so they work with lots of different developers so they've developed. They've made this ah whist software that allows developers to you know, tell their stories. In this sort of Whales Interactive format. So it sort of makes it easier to work with different companies I would imagine is is sort of the motivation behind that. Um, yeah, it is whist is there is their back end a bit like ah said we used ink which is from in called Studios. Um, they they've developed their own. 01:11:21.70 Lynda & Tim Wist project and it allows writers as well. Not We're not just one developers because a lot of whales games are they're kind of like I Want to say collaborations. But there's a lot of people involved as and you'll get the producer in the film production might be different from the screenwriter and so on and so forth and in terms of the actual developer. Putting a stamp on the gameplay or whatever then I mean that's already been done like you say by the um by the whist engine by the front end that you see so um, is it makes sense. It definitely makes sense moneywise to use the same interface more than once. Yeah. 01:11:51.33 Jala Um, yeah, oh yeah, yeah for sure. So yeah, yeah, so so talking about budget when it comes to making the f and B games. So ah, how often did you have your. 01:11:57.62 Lynda & Tim Ah, but we've we've not done that. Yeah. 01:12:11.17 Jala Actors and actresses did how did they have very much room to do Improv at all or was it just like they're they're scripted. This is the thing that they say um, were they allowed their own kind of play on any of the scripts. Okay, yeah. 01:12:23.30 Lynda & Tim Not not really no I mean one of the issues is because there's so much. Um because we generally create a lot of content and there's a lot of kind of um, weaving story if you change a little bit. You might ruin it. So. 01:12:34.62 Jala Gotcha. 01:12:40.12 Lynda & Tim It's difficult to especially I mean deco obviously no because in deca we you have to say this word must say this word. It's definitely it links up with 10 other things. Yeah, and then for shapeshift our shapeshift was is actually was the biggest headache for us to write ever. 01:12:45.17 Jala Yeah, for sure. 01:12:56.63 Lynda & Tim Watching And yeah, it gets very confusing who am I What am I doing who we're talking to. So yeah, allowing people to improve around that would have been would have been tough but there's obviously you you can you know there is a bit of leeway. You know when we were filming murderous muses. Um, last month you'd have accessctors. 01:13:06.60 Jala Gotcha. 01:13:13.89 Lynda & Tim You know they deliver the line and they'll say oh that's not quite right? isn't it and it's like well it's essentially the same thing that's fine. You know we don't know we're not with yeah people to get the exact and and part of that is the nature of murderous muse is that they kind of um each clip is standalone so it's not going to break the game. Um, it's not the break The the narrative. 01:13:33.23 Lynda & Tim And have slightly different words in it I mean there wasn't much no I mean improving pal and Roe was there if if any no a part of that was just we had a lot to get through. Well yeah yeah, that took a lot longer to film. Yeah. 01:13:39.74 Jala Yeah, yeah, it sounds like it. So with the budget constraints too. Yeah, did you have very many takes or was it one and done like ah this this is prompted by a listener question because um. This particular listener said that in other fmv games sometimes the get it in None take or else constraint kind of really showed you know like oh this is definitely a none take this is you know it. We don't see we don't if if you did do everything in the none take it does not show in the end product. 01:14:05.30 Lynda & Tim I ah. 01:14:17.86 Jala Let's put it that way. Ah. 01:14:19.90 Lynda & Tim That's scares now we don't we don't do everything do I mean I was just editing somebody yesterday and we had None takes of of None thing so when I'm directing I like to be able to ask for another take if they've completely destroyed it on the none time round. But. When you get to None takes if it still isn't in this tough, you've definitely got something there. You can use? Yeah um I mean I think that that listener comment is it's a credit to our actors. Yeah, because. 01:14:51.94 Lynda & Tim They come in and you know it's not the easiest of circumstances to to act in because we do have a lot to get through. Um, um so they all do really well and it does vary from actor to actor because you know you have people that you work with and they are just um. Their none take is the best None and then some other actors. They just need to take to warm up and then you see you know you see it in the edit the first one yeah is fine. The none one are there we go? Um, so sometimes it takes 2 or 3 and that's just how it works so we're not interested in rushing them. 01:15:31.18 Lynda & Tim Um, sometimes we've definitely been in a situation where we've got an hour to get to the train station and let's just shoot these last few responses with and run out the door. Um with an actor who's continuously looking at the script. Yeah, could you just sell no pressure. But if you can just Mailil this. Yeah. 01:15:49.85 Lynda & Tim Um, but yeah it it there is but we we? yeah we don't want to? um, we're not interested in just getting whatever is is there. We do want you know who often we want it to be good. 01:16:03.34 Jala Yeah, yeah. 01:16:05.70 Lynda & Tim But it's you know it's ah it's an interesting question from from another point of view though because we do get approached by a lot of people that want to make FAndV games and there's a couple of different camps of people that make FAndV games Normally there are there are programmer developers who want to make ah an fmv game. Um. Um, you know maybe to get in on on the on the niche as it were to try and to access more people in the market and they will normally completely underestimate the amount of effort that goes into the filmmaking side and then and then on the filmmaking Side. You'll get people that want to make a film. 01:16:42.25 Lynda & Tim Probably because just doing a short anded festivaling. It doesn't seem to get you much traction. So let's make it an f and v game those kind of the kind of film indie film producers tend to massively underestimate the amount of programming work that's involved. So yeah I guess that if you're a programmer you might be thinking. There's the budget they get 1 take. 01:17:02.23 Lynda & Tim For example, yeah, whereas the where's the film producers are thinking I just I can get a coder on five can I and be done in a day just need to stitch these videos together. Yeah those console ports. It's just another day right? So yeah, it's. 01:17:18.64 Lynda & Tim Is essential. Also yeah, but you might get that vibe from some games depending on the slum of the production company behind it. 01:17:25.00 Jala Yeah that's that's interesting way and that that's an interesting little bit of information and an interesting way to kind of approach and examine these f and b games in the genre. So oh I did want to say murderous muses I have not mentioned this yet and you. Mention it either people can wish list it right now on steam it is available to wish list. Please wish list it and look at all of the videos and stuff they're there. They're also on your Youtube so definitely and so listeners can go ahead and take a look at that right now. 01:17:54.76 Lynda & Tim Yeah, yeah. Yeah, Thank you for that We are terrible at marketing so forgeting to say that you can wish list. Our game is definitely something we could we with you can actually go to Http://murderousmmeses.com I Think there's a link to steam from there but we're also on playstation for wishlisting but I'm not a true. 01:18:00.95 Jala But put it on your wish list. You do that thing. 01:18:18.85 Lynda & Tim In our link tree somewhere I'll be know. Yeah, that's buried. It's in the playstation store somewhere. It's in coming soon and isn in coming saying on by session. Yeah. 01:18:25.60 Jala Awesome! Awesome! So um, it's so far as just some last little wrap up questions I have just some fun stuff to to kind of ask you guys. So what is the best piece of. Player feedback that you've ever received from your game so far you can each have your own individual favorite. That's fine. 01:18:51.24 Lynda & Tim Oh well, if you had to pick one particular thing. Um that would be quite hard. Um, you know you you get so many things over the years and it's um, it's it's always really lovely. To hear and we we get people say things. Um on Twitter um, you occasionally get emails. Um, so and and I mean one of my favorite things when we um, released Dekker. Um, and we got fan art for it. 01:19:29.35 Lynda & Tim And that was something that I don't know just blew my mind really because Wow people are made fan art of you know these characters that we wrote um and we actually you know we obviously we keep those um because I mean that's just amazing. 01:19:48.38 Lynda & Tim Think um, really love that So and and and very good fan art. So that's I mean that's always really nice. Um I mean then negative feedback stands out the most right? That's the stuff by the way. Yeah, we do have we do We do have quite a few people kind of. 01:20:06.73 Lynda & Tim Um, get in touch and say they really like to work you know work on um, rx game and they'd like to write for us or it's inspired them to do this that or the other and that's that's always amazing really because we're just happy people even play the game that lone kind of get inspired to do to do something else after playing them. And even I think the last round of auditions we literally got an email today from somebody saying that they were so kind of um, happy with the feedback that we'd given them because not only had they done an audition. We asked them back to do um, a further take because they're very close to getting the role and they said that you know they' never thought back and before now. Because of that I decided to pursue it and now they've got an agent and they've been doing vo roles and all this stuff and it's it's not made out day. It does? Yeah yeah, kind of stuff makes super happy for. Um yeah, so it's it's just really nice and you know and and we've got people who. 01:20:48.88 Jala Awesome. 01:21:05.69 Lynda & Tim Are fans that you know we we would count as as friends that we saw you know and we're get them to do little um perhaps guest voiceovers or things like that. So it is. 01:21:22.84 Lynda & Tim It's just really nice. Have people send auditions with poems and things and um ah can't I can't not mention mosts memes at this most memes yeah those memes obviously in a hall. Yeah out my yeah and we opened a discord for a while he he did loads of memes based on palmrise they're absolutely fantastic. But you're hilarious and yeah, just um, incredibly quotable. And yeah, they're on Twitter as well. If you search for most memes on Twitter then you can you can get all the memes all the quality perma ro means from my say yeah, definitely look out. 01:21:54.18 Jala Ah, yeah, it's really, it's just I what I'm hearing is it's really good to just see the impact that these games and like the lasting kind of sense of community and things that you get from people who have. 01:22:00.31 Lynda & Tim Basically. 01:22:13.00 Jala Interacted with your work. 01:22:13.20 Lynda & Tim Yeah I mean so it's really a 2 wo-way thing because um, people say oh your game meant so much to me, you know I played it. You know perhaps I played it in this time in my life where things weren't going well and it was really an escape for me. And hearing that kind of stuff is just um, very humbling. Yeah and then well we feel like well it's really an honor to be told that um, we're in this situation and also obviously with Twitch and everything you get to watch people. 01:22:52.21 Lynda & Tim Play the game. Yeah, which is something that you know many years ago you wouldn't have been able to do so you get to people react and when they laugh and when they you know when they jump and and they're go oh no, what have I done that's ah that's brilliant we always when we release a game. We always watch Twitch. 01:23:12.10 Lynda & Tim Hiding behind the sofa because obviously you are a bit worried about what the reaction might be but um, you know we've we've got a lot of people that um you know are fave streamers and and youtubers that have played our games and yeah is. 01:23:29.93 Jala Awesome! So if you could give 1 piece of advice to your younger self. Go back in time and tell them something. What would you tell them. 01:23:30.24 Lynda & Tim It's just great. 01:23:42.47 Lynda & Tim Oh I mean it's weird because you did you I mean you don't want to change where you are today. A lot of the time so you don't want to say anything that might kind of make you take a different path but um. 01:23:47.96 Jala Yeah. I Love how you immediately go to like this horror scenario in your head. What can go wrong. 01:24:01.70 Lynda & Tim And it's branching right? It's on top egg. It's branching horror. Um, probably don't take things too personally. Um, even though you're going to anyway. But it's it's nice to hear. That's that's a that's quite a good one. 01:24:11.31 Jala Yeah, whenever you put anything out in the world. You are vulnerable in that way. 01:24:20.45 Lynda & Tim It is like your little baby where every time I is a game. It's like putting little baby out and then watching people kick it but not give it only a few people. Yeah like laer people give it cuddles. Yeah I I would um if I could go back in time and give a piece of advice to my younger self. 01:24:39.26 Lynda & Tim Um, I'd say be patient because it I think there's well I don't know I can only speak for me personally but sort of in my twenty s I was very impatient I was very you know what am I doing with my life. Why aren't I doing it already and it takes a long time to get where you're going. 01:24:59.17 Lynda & Tim And in both senses you know to to work out where you're going to get you know to get what you're here for or what what you want to do So it's a slow process. But as they say it's the journey. Not the destination if you can if you can actually go back in time though. Yeah, just you'd see your other self when you go. 01:25:18.62 Lynda & Tim I'm here from the future And yeah, yeah, see yeah, be like well what just happened? Yeah, could you resist. 01:25:26.71 Jala Ah, yeah, well and then well and and then too though. Um, you also just have the fact that sometimes life throws you a curveball and then you or an opportunity opens something else. You know redirects you and then your course changes from what you thought it was going to be. 01:25:43.42 Lynda & Tim Yeah, yeah. 01:25:44.95 Jala And you know like maybe your younger self would have no idea that this is what you'd be doing right now you know so. 01:25:49.35 Lynda & Tim Yeah I mean for me personally I mean I always wanted to be a writer when I was younger which you know I am ah I write things now but I wasn't a massive video game player when I was younger that only sort of I had an acorn lecture and I played Chuck e egalog. Um, but really it was only when I met Tim and we played games together that I got into video games so I never imagined. You know I would never have said oh well I'll be making video games when I'm older that was just not something that um was on the radar. 01:26:22.40 Lynda & Tim For me. So yeah, life takes you in lots of different directions and it's when you're in school and you're supposed to decide what you want to do? there's There's so many more options than you're given and you're presented with so you you went you know you find. 01:26:41.17 Lynda & Tim Yeah, in terms of branches you find that little sort of twig that is your twig that you didn't know was there? yeah. 01:26:45.38 Jala Yeah, yeah, So here's one that I'm prop. You're probably gonna sigh at me when I ask you? So if you could have unlimited budget staff and time. What kind of Dream. What would your dream game that you would produce look like. 01:27:08.50 Lynda & Tim I think what for me I think I ah pretty a massive open world August where you can move around and interact with everybody. Yeah, whenever and wherever you wanted a bit like westworld because there'd obviously be set pieces going off but set in August so um. 01:27:25.80 Lynda & Tim Maybe melhaven because I've spent a lot of time there. It's grown on me bit I think there's there's definitely more to explore in Ma high melhaven I'm not I'm not entirely sure how an open water and V would work. But now we can We can work that yeah I quite fancy. Um I've got this sort of vision in my head of a time looping Murder mystery setting and. 01:27:44.40 Lynda & Tim Art Deco Hotel I've got this thing about hotels but only the fancy ones. Um American Horror Story American Horror story. Yeah, um, so yeah, if I had a if I had infinite budget. Yeah, something like that. Maybe. 01:27:59.42 Jala I Want all of that in more please? Yes, so now we just have to get you to the unlimited budget time and staff. Okay, easy peasy right? So yeah. 01:28:05.81 Lynda & Tim The unlimited budget. Yeah yeah, and actually let me say it's not just the budget. It's the time because we're very bad at working with other people not as in. We're horrible work and other people we just we like to do our own thing. We don't like to be rushed or. Sort of um feel pressured to go in None particular way or or another so you know we do everything ourselves mostly and it's only this year we've taken on another full time member of staff is Sam who's you know a Coda um, who. So when we when we make a game. It is incredibly time consuming and hard work because we're you know we're writing it. We're we're casting it. We're you know we're doing the filming we're doing the catering. We're. 01:29:00.80 Lynda & Tim You know, getting the costumes and the props and the sets and the locations and then we're editing it and you know everything that goes into it. So um, yeah, we'd we'd have to get better at working with other people I think along with having the unlimited budget. We did I mean we did have editors for yeah yeah, that ah um, yeah, autumn ah, per roe as well. So it's not like it can't be done. Um, it's just actually pa Monroe is is still struggling to to kind of break even so you get more people involved and the costs go up and so on so forth. So it's. 01:29:35.53 Lynda & Tim It's um, it's like 1 of those things that we do need to be better to work. Be better at working with people and we need ther more games. Why we? Why are we making them. Why are we selling them but we do ah. 01:29:46.60 Jala Ah, well I was going to say though that even though this is kind of like um, an endeavor that originally began as kind of like an interest a passion project type of thing and then turned into. You know like a larger company and and you know full time Endeavor. It doesn't sound just from talking to you I can just hear you glowing talking about these things because you really love what you're doing and I Absolutely love that I Love that because. 01:30:20.32 Jala So much in the video game industry is just like studios on Crunch. They have to kick it out by this time you hear horror stories and see new reports about just like you know the horrible conditions that people are working on games. You know, like what kind of situations each of these studios is. Putting their workers through and you know when you talk about taking the time and you know making the game you know, but absorbing you know having this game absorb your entirety of your life more or less as you work on them but really really enjoying that process and doing that doing it. It feels more like. And our artistic endeavor then it does you know the kind of of commercialized crunch right? Yeah yeah. 01:30:58.76 Lynda & Tim Yeah, commercial. Yeah, we We definitely see. Yeah, we do it for love not money I mean we're very lucky because really, um, we've been making the murder mystery games for um, well getting on for 20 years And um, that to quite an extent enables us to make the video games. Um, obviously we you know we do get an income from the video games. But um, if it was I don't know if we would still be doing it if. 01:31:34.62 Lynda & Tim If We just had to you might yeah you might want to risk it all. Yeah video game you know max out your credit cards and stuff if you if you're not really sure that it's going to make it back and so yeah, it is a choice. Um and we get to choose what projects we do and you know. The ones that we are most enthusiastic about. So yeah, we're We're very lucky. 01:31:56.82 Jala Awesome! So about your murder mystery party games. So are you still writing those as well or are you just? um, like taking the income from existing ones that are for sale. 01:32:11.60 Lynda & Tim But both both I mean it So what we do. Fortunately, we've got ah um so we sell download and obviously box versions and we've got a good relationship with a printer now who we've been working with for years and they do all the. 01:32:28.27 Lynda & Tim Game printing and um, put they assemble our games they handasseble our games and they also run our retail storell so like of like 4 maybe 3 4 five years was it four Dekker or. 01:32:40.40 Lynda & Tim Around that time we kind of handed over everything. It was just after to them to to kind of that kind of the the manual labor so that we could get our time back to do those things because we were assembling the games. Um, we were assembling the games. Yeah, for our um, whilst film. Yeah, yeah, so I mean. 01:32:56.54 Lynda & Tim They do that now and but we still write new titles and um, we've got new I mean we've got new game system murderous decisions came out last year and that sounds suspiciously like murderous mus and that's just a coincidence that's because we reuse stuff we just bought yeah lazy but it murders decisions as a branching. Um. Murder mystery dinnermo party game. So you play. It's again, it's like they always have been the same kind of thing. But this time you get to make decisions because that's what we do our video games so we just kind of rolled that into the into the box game. But yeah, we've got Wayne who makes up a print room. They make up all our games and ship stuff for us. So a lot of that's taken care of. 01:33:34.72 Lynda & Tim Ah, still quite a lot of admin. So we yeah like we still do the accounts. It keeps us humble. We still do we respond to customers. Um, yeah orders we send we we bar the parts to make the games we censship this to Amazon all this stuff. So yeah, there's a lot of stuff that goes on. We'd like to say we were just. 01:33:52.76 Lynda & Tim You know, relaxing on our sun lounges writing it for me. But yeah, we're not, we're not quite there. Yeah and you know technically we should be writing more mo games or we should at least be writing them. Um, quicker than we are um, we got to out at the end of last year which was quite an achievement. Um. We have enjoyed doing the fmbs more we're aiming to get another one out at the end of this year but we um where we've planned it out. We haven't started a case files game case files yeah, yeah, and about none more from v games. There's always a there There's always lots of things on this to do this? Yeah need a cloning machine. 01:34:26.57 Jala Ah, yeah, right? Oh no, but we let's talk about the horror elements about Clones I Mean that's the whole. 01:34:29.90 Lynda & Tim Just a cloning machine a bighead or they rupert. Yeah I mean Brit Re repert Both I thought to rebit about Clones and I never ever thought of it and I said about again a cleaner machine said. Yeah, but if you got a clone. You'd fight each other to the death. It's like Wow Yeah, okay, all right? then? no no for the clone. Yeah, just started to keep doing the work just have to keep doing it. Yeah, somebody would want to be there. 01:34:56.81 Jala Yeah I guess I guess so so if listeners want to pick up one of your murder mystery party games is there a link on your like link tree on your website. 01:35:11.72 Lynda & Tim Um I think it should be on linktree. Yeah, actually if it isn't we should add it. Yeah Amazon you can get them http://amazon.com or k uk or and we have yeah our own website is murdermiory store dot code at u k but we shipped most countries around the world. Um, so yeah. 01:35:31.00 Lynda & Tim So boxed and download games. Oh in your qui skit. You can also get the downloads on Etsy. But if you if you're a fan of ah of our FAndV of our computer games just there be known that the murder mystery games are definitely a different style of writing that they um they are meant. 01:35:50.67 Lynda & Tim Them. They're designed for laughs was while yeah, drinking alcohol with your friends and family. Yeah, as possible. They're possibly slightly lower brow. It was. They're more tongue in cheek. Yeah, they're kind of um, there's a lot of puns. 01:36:07.10 Lynda & Tim Yeah, because yeah murder mystery games you play at home and to get your friends and family to say silly things that they wouldn't normally say dressed as they are trying to act so it's is a different thing to how we'd write something for Ashland so strangely. But yeah I mean people still it's. 01:36:24.58 Lynda & Tim You wouldn't want to deliver Rashton's lines at a murder mystery probably you'd need to be pretty good. So yeah, kind of um, they've written for gags for fun for last moment. 01:36:27.26 Jala Ah, yeah. 01:36:36.40 Jala Gotcha Cool cool. So do you have any final thoughts to share about your company your journey so far. What's coming up murderous muses. 01:36:52.53 Lynda & Tim Yeah, yeah, well, um, we we're thinking about this and we're just saying that every every thing you do every I mean every game we release everything you do. There's a chance that it's going to bomb and you won't have the you the the. Courage or energy to start again, but also that obviously everything we do that all these video games things we're making is an absolute privilege to be able to do it So you know having this opportunity and hopefully being able to make someone else anywhere in the universe feels just a little bit happier even for a second is. Is is amazing. Really so we're just we're forever grateful for everyone who plays our our games and and also for for people who interview us and are interested in what we're doing is amazing. Yeah, what he said. 01:37:49.51 Jala But that's why I love asking that kind of wrap-up question because then it's like oh yes, they they've given us the worm fuzzies. Well you are both absolutely lovely individuals and I'm glad that I actually got to speak with you I know I've been kind of. 01:38:08.76 Jala Hitting you up on Twitter more or less since I played Dr Dekker but you know it every once in a while you just get this message from this "Jala-chan" person. 01:38:17.27 Lynda & Tim It's lovely to actually you know it's lovely to speak to you in person Finally and um, you know it's been really fun and I'm just looking at the ah time there and time has flown and I didn't even notice so that's a good sign and you haven't mounted. 01:38:34.27 Lynda & Tim Ah, yeah you're still not a puddle. Yeah, the heat wave hasn't taken you? yeah. 01:38:38.28 Jala Ah, yeah, yeah, well this is a good kind of stopping place a good wrap up for now and so where in the world can people find you I know we already talked about this, you already dropped a couple of dotcoms and things. But ah. Give us None more time like what's your social handle for everything. 01:38:58.65 Lynda & Tim Okay, yep, um, so on Twitter um, well the main one is @deavekki and on Instagram it's @davekkistudios we've also got @murderousmuses both those places and Tim is um, @letsfixitinpost on Twitter which is going on as well. So yeah and I'm very boring I'm just @lyndacowles. 01:39:28.33 Jala Mine is @jalachan everywhere that I can be found So I mean I am "Jala-chan in Places" is how I say it and if I am there I am @jalachan that is it. It's nice and easy. 01:39:35.90 Lynda & Tim Um, that's good marketing. Ah, that's yeah, what we need excellent branding. 01:39:46.55 Jala Yeah, including jalachan.place which is where this podcast comes from so all right? Well thank you both so much and thank you to all of the listeners listening to this I know there were a lot of folks who were looking forward to this episode. So I am so excited to release this So I appreciate you. 01:39:59.99 Lynda & Tim Um, ah, cool. Thank you. 01:40:06.35 Jala And for all the listeners, until next time thank you for listening and remember to smile. [Show Outro] Jala Jala-chan's Place is brought to you by Fireheart Media. If you enjoyed the show, please share this and all of our episodes with friends and remember to rate and review us on your podcast platform of choice. Word of mouth is the only way we grow. If you like, you can also kick us a few bucks to help us keep the lights on at ko-fi.com/Jala. Check out our other show Monster Dear Monster: A Monster Exploration Podcast at monsterdear.monster. Music composed and produced by Jake Lionhart with additional guitars and mixed by Spencer Smith. Follow along with my adventures via jalachan.place or find me at jalachan in places on the net! [Outro Music] [End Chat] Jala I decided that I was going to order a couple of the special murder mystery date night games that D'Avekki Studios has on their website and when I did that and I signed up for their newsletter I also got a free downloadable date night game with just subscribing, so Dave and I decided that we were going to play that for my birthday and it was a lot of fun. So Dave what do you think about it? Dave Yeah, so the adventure that we picked is the Murder at St. Trinny's Academy and it is a 2 person or more little mini murder scenario. And you sort of take turns if it's just 2 people filling out the cast. Jala Yeah, so each person has 3 characters and because it's meant to be a date night game there are 3 that are for a female role and 3 that are for a male role. It's split into three different acts where you take turns playing out scripted scenarios and then having a clue uncovered and then having a free range improv section where you have some prompts - some goals for your character - for each section that you know you're trying to achieve. You're trying to find out information or you're trying to defend yourself against accusations, that kind of a thing. There are some suggested scripts that you can go by but there's also room for improvisation like I mentioned previously. There's also full dress suggestions if you want to go all out and have the entire wardrobe set up. Between each act as you play a different character but there's also a quick dress scenario where you just pick up an item that's in the house that will kind of represent more or less the role that these characters play. Dave Yeah, it's a lot of fun. They put a lot of thought into making these easily accessible archetypal characters. They have defined general personalities. Their clothing - the bits that you could put together for either the full costume or just say a character just they habitually chew gum so you could just as a prop be chewing gum and deliver the lines that way. But that makes it so you can you can make this as involved or as sort of off the cuff as you'd like. Jala Yeah we definitely didn't have enough time to do like a full on presentation and like studying the roles and stuff but I feel like I would definitely want to do more of these and have a little bit more time looking over my little playbook because it's split into his and hers playbook so that way each person has all of their information upfront. The end result, like who the murderer is, is actually set in a coded message at the very end so you can't accidentally flip to it and then find out the secrets and all of that so that is very good. Anyway I would feel a little bit better overall if I had more time to kind of look at each of the characters and kind of get into the spirit of each of the characters as I go rather than just like, we picked this up and we looked at it and we're like ok, go with it, you know and not being in the habit of doing Improv or anything and not having done a murder mystery in a long time ah, was kind of yeah I don't know a little bit...maybe our performances were not ah, award worthy. Let's say that. Dave So it gives space to kind of give you, the actor, a bit of a stage direction. You get prompts for the character overall, how their their mannerism is in general and the scripted sections are a little stronger if you're in Drama Club or you're just used to doing Improv which is not a terrible amount of people. That makes those sections stronger. Personally I would like there just to be full scripted sections. So that's one less thing to worry over. It takes some of the stress out of it if you're just given a script and you can just get into the role that way when it's a section that's a couple little prompts and just have at it that that can be Fun. You can you can get into the characters. It gives you a little bit of a suggested time limit, x amount of minutes. This section should take 5 or it should take 10 minutes. It gives you a little bit more time to get into the role-playing aspect of it and that's a welcome addition. But I kind of would have liked there to be a scripted section as an alternative. Jala So one thing that I do want to add is that the characters have very punny names in most cases that at the very least give you a further idea of the character. It's very Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney in that the names are super punny and the characters are very very strong and in that way it's kind of like goofy fun. But there's also a bit of like scripted sexy-flirty kind of stuff going on as well. Which of course this is for a date night game, so it makes absolute sense and it gives you leeway to get into all of that as much or as little as you like and that works for basically any degree of familiarity with your date. You know like if you are new to each other and it's awkward then you just do a little bit of the flirty stuff and that's good and you know just depending upon your comfort level and everything you can go all out and make it like a whole long-winded campaign of a game if you want. I think that that's something where being familiar with this style of game and what these have on offer is a bonus. Dave If you come into this and you have a little bit of time set aside you're doing a little fun date night. But then all of a sudden, oh here is a bunch of improv sections. That can definitely slow things down if you weren't expecting that. But if you go into these with that in mind that helps with the experience. The scripted sections I feel are stronger mostly because if you're not anticipating it's sort of a surprise that hey this section over here, just now there's no script. Try to get them to answer these questions in a role, that's fun. But not if you're not expecting that in those Improv sections. Jala There are some cues where it says if they're asking this which of course they're asking that because you know like it's giving you responses that you can provide that you can read off the sheet if you need and there are some little scripted responses and questions available in those improv sections. So it's not like it's totally unguided but you know if the section is supposed to last no more than 10 minutes and you've got just like a few sentences on the page. You're really meant to flush that out and I feel like that's something that especially you would get more familiar with and they get more comfortable with the more that you do this kind of game now I do know that on the D'Avekki murder mystery store website they do have various other murder mystery dinner party games and they did mention that folks would send them screenshots and stuff of everyone dressed up and doing a Zoom call and that is something I can absolutely do. I can do a Zoom murder mystery party, I cannot do a face-to-face murder mystery party at this time but Zoom is entirely possible and I might even have enough folks to do that sometime and those games involve a little bit more like I know that there are videos and things like that that you can download that are all to be played at certain times during the game and all of that. So, I'm curious to see what those have to offer and I will absolutely let everybody know in the future should I go ahead and do that. Dave I think that that about covers that, we were satisfied and were more than happy to engage with this. And look it's a good sort of teaser into what the party games have on offer and how kind of sharp the writing is. It's a little easier when it's archetypal you have an idea of what these characters are are bringing to the table and kind of how to bring them to life. So as a 1 on 1 scenario it's maybe a little tougher if this is not your thing that you do often but I think as a party game it would really shine. Jala Yeah for sure I feel that. Especially in a party scenario if you are having dinner and you're having drinks and you're all just kind of chilling out then it's a little bit easier to go through all of these different steps and everything because everybody's uncomfortable, right? Especially if it's their first one like if you've been doing this for a while that's a little bit different. But yeah, it's a very fun experience. It's a different version of a tabletop game. It's not like role-playing in a TTRPG because you've got some scripts and you've got certain goals and stuff that are handed to you. So in some ways it's guiding you along, but in other ways it's turning you loose at the same time and it's just kind of I feel finding that balance for you of where exactly you want to be, like Dave would prefer being more on rails and you know for me I like the ideas that are presented here and I think if I had more experience with some of these other games, once the copies that I ordered came in, then I feel that would be perfectly fine for me. So anyway, they were very fun and I definitely recommend that people take a look at those if this sounds interesting to you. And thank you all so much.