[Show Intro] Jala Hey, thanks for coming! I'm glad you're here. Come on in! Everyone's out on the patio right now. Looks like a couple of people are in the garden. I can't wait to introduce you! Can I get you anything? [turned away] Hey folks, our new guest is here! [Intro music] 00:00:01.85 Jala Hello world and welcome to Jala-chan's Place. I'm your host, Jala Prendes (she/her) and today I'm joined by Josh (he/him) and Greg (he/him). Yay! Woo! 00:00:12.24 Still Loading The gang's back together baby. 00:00:12.65 Jala That is right. 00:00:14.15 Greg yeah 00:00:15.33 Jala We're back together. What? The last time was Simulacra, right? And then now we're doing the Legend of Zelda episode that I thought was going to happen a lot sooner, but, you know, life happens and stuff gets shuffled. 00:00:19.16 Still Loading Yes. 00:00:27.32 Jala So ah here we are, and now it's summer. 00:00:31.92 Jala So how are y'all doing today? I'm going to throw to Greg first. Greg, tell us, how are you doing? 00:00:38.15 Greg I'm doing all right. Glad to be here. um you know i was I was very pleased when Jala asked me to be on this episode because Zelda was definitely a cartoon that I grew up watching when it was new and definitely had some nostalgia for. So ah this is something fun to talk about. 00:00:54.53 Jala Yeah, I know. And like, the I felt like it would be ah some kind of morally terrible thing to do, to do an episode on this and not ask you of all the people that I know, you know, because you and I have talked about the show a lot ah over the years. So, um you know, it had to happen. So, Josh, how about you? How are you doing? 00:01:19.51 Still Loading I'm doing fine and dandy. It's been a crazy week. ah And you know, my wife and I think I've said it on other episodes, we've been house hunting, which that's a special sort of hell, but we're we're we're working our way through it. 00:01:30.81 Jala Yes. 00:01:32.81 Greg especially like right now. 00:01:32.92 Still Loading But ah yeah, dear Lord. 00:01:33.66 Jala Uh huh. 00:01:35.35 Still Loading But other than that, we're doing fine and dandy. 00:01:37.99 Still Loading Everything's doing well, and I'm happy to be on this. I'm grateful that you chose. I'm not quite sure if I was you know in preparation for this. I did watch the whole show again, and I'm like, I don't know if I wanted to cram all of the Zelda cartoon in like the span of a week, but at the same time, i my brain is so muddled in the this cartoon version of Hyrule. I'm kind of in a weird headspace today, but a good weird headspace, so i'm I'm grateful to be here. 00:02:07.27 Jala ah Right. When we were talking about doing this episode, it was before you decided to do it for your show. And that actually is going to lead into ah everybody talking about the stuff they do. So nice segue. 00:02:19.00 Jala Josh, tell people what you do and tell them about your little mini-sodes about Zelda as well. 00:02:25.33 Still Loading Yeah, so I'm the host of the Still Loading podcast. 00:02:28.13 Still Loading I won't, I mean, I don't know how far you want me to go into it, but okay, okay. 00:02:31.86 Jala Explain. It's fine. 00:02:33.83 Still Loading So, you know, I'm--actually, when's this episode coming out? Just by any chance, like a couple of weeks. 00:02:37.77 Jala Yeah, a couple of weeks from now. 00:02:39.66 Still Loading So like ah earlier late July, I guess. 00:02:43.14 Jala Early July, yes. 00:02:43.87 Still Loading early then it's either right around this time or ah going to be like either shortly before or shortly after this episode comes out ah is the 10th anniversary of my podcast. And that'll be out on July 7th. 00:02:55.35 Jala Whoo! 00:02:57.66 Still Loading I don't know when the specific date for this one is, but that that's 10th anniversary episodes out there. So yeah, I've been doing this video game podcast for 10 years. um Thank you. 00:03:07.21 Greg Well, congrats. 00:03:08.86 Still Loading It's been a while. It's been a while. ah But ah the reason why Jala asked me to be on this episode in particular is for the last couple of years, i me and my buddy Dexter Morrill have been doing a rewatch series on my podcast where once a month we do one episode of a video game based cartoon. And so we did the whole Captain N series and then we switched over to the Super Mario Brothers Super Show and Legend of Zelda, because they ran kind of like right at the right one right after the other. Excuse me. 00:03:42.53 Still Loading ah So I've been doing a rewatch series of this Legend of Zelda cartoon. At the time we're recording this, we have done two episodes of that rewatch. And actually the time we recorded this, tomorrow I'm recording the third episode of the Super Mario Super Show. So that that's going to be a fun time. ah So we've but I've been going through this beat by beat where I will break down these episodes in excruciating detail. and much to there's some pain involved, but it's like, it's the good kind of pain. I like it. But yeah, so that's what, that's what I do over at Still Loading. 00:04:15.34 Jala Well, and the thing about it too is that some the episodes, the way that you break them down, like y'all have it up on your screen and you are watching it. And sometimes you're like at this particular frame, at this particular, you know, this number on the YouTube video, you know, like you're granular with it, but it's so great. um it's It's a lot of fun to listen to both you and Dex talk about that. ah series, and it was fun listening to all of Captain N and popping in for an episode or two of that myself. um That was great fun. So yeah, we will talk about the Captain N Zelda episodes a little bit as well. Greg just recently rewatched those to prepare for this episode. So yes, and definitely check that out. I have show notes, some links in the show notes for that. And Greg, tell the folks about your podcast stuff. 00:05:08.08 Greg Well, I do a podcast focusing on Super NES games, like my co-host, Joe. And we are also coming up on our 10-year anniversary pretty soon. It will be about November, I think. I have to look up the exact date, but Joe and I have already talked about doing something special in advance for that. So, speaking about the log running podcast, because 10 years, wow, where's the time gone? But because so much life has changed over 10 years, the fact the podcast is still running is just still mind-blowing to me. but Anyway, yeah, we do that. 00:05:38.58 Greg We do that biweekly. Just pick a, just pick Super NES game. We take turns picking the game to broadcast and then we just cover it. As the time of us recording this, we just released an episode on the very obscure but very interesting game, Jim Power, which was a 3D-based game for the system. It actually came up like glasses for it. 00:05:59.84 Greg And without those glasses spoil um without those glasses, the background pair of scrolling effect the game uses can make can easily can can very easily make you motion sick. 00:06:09.19 Jala Oh no. 00:06:11.03 Greg speak In the next episode, next episode we're going to have today next episode we're have a guest host talk about the classic Legend of Disco Ninja. So ah that's what we have coming up but i up next. 00:06:22.25 Jala Awesome. Very cool. So yeah, ah both of those things are awesome and they relate to Zelda related things because Nintendo. 00:06:32.05 Jala So yeah, ah very cool. And yeah, we will proceed from here. Of course, ah my show, you can find it on ko-fi.com/fireheartmedia. You can give us a few bucks to help us keep the lights on and get all the other goodies that we have there. We have extra little bonus shows, which are a lot of fun. 00:06:51.52 Jala But go follow that link. It is in the show notes to check that out. In the meantime, I am very ready to talk about this 1989 American cartoon. 00:07:03.66 Jala So let's hit this. So um the Legend of Zelda cartoon was part of the Super Mario Brothers Super Show. It was developed by like a different sub team within the team that was basically left alone to do whatever they wanted more or less with very little guidance. because they were focusing on the Mario Brothers part of the show. So um there were 13 total episodes, 15 minutes apiece. And it was adapted by DIC and produced by Viacom Enterprises. So yeah, ah it was kind of interesting because the people who wrote the show weren't gamers, not a one of them. And they were handed a franchise Bible by Nintendo and then told to look at the first two games, The Legend of Zelda and Zelda 2, The Adventure of Link. 00:07:50.68 Jala And so those were they like the only games that were out at that time. um But like basically, one of the creators had talked about how he was just given a VHS tape that had um you know like a playthrough. And that's how he watched it to observe you know what the game was like. Josh. 00:08:11.31 Still Loading So ah you mentioned it was adapted by DIC, and I just have to ask all both of y'all, what is what comes to mind when you think of DIC? I remember as a kid, i the first cartoon I saw was the Sonic Sat-Am cartoon, you know the really dark edgy one. And I always remember that the you know the end of the episodes would go, DIC, it didn't have that little animation thing. what What comes to mind for you? Is it like a positive memory? Is it a negative memory? I'm always curious about this because I've heard mixed reviews from a lot of fans who are nostalgic for these old video game cartoons. 00:08:46.71 Jala It's kind of funny because the first thing that I think about when I think of the DIC logo and all of that mess is actually Sailor Moon. It's Sailor Moon. That's the one that I think of. And um I have a lot of fun memories of like, because it came on at a ridiculous time in the morning that I wasn't going to wake up when I was in middle school, when it was airing on TV. 00:09:06.39 Jala So I would record it. on my little VHS player and then rewatch it, like watch it in the morning, wake up early in the morning to watch it before I went to school. So um I have lots of fun memories of that. But of course, that recorded all the commercials. It recorded all the the stuff at the beginning and the deacon and all that other stuff. 00:09:24.84 Jala But it felt to me like I heard that all the time time because so many things that I watched had the deacon child it screaming this the thing at the beginning. 00:09:35.78 Jala So I don't know. How about you, Greg? 00:09:38.56 Greg Um, I actually, I actually did not watch much that Deke produced. Uh, I was actually, why you by the way, I was talking about this and going like, why haven't watched that had Deke on it? I know the company he is, but my memory was, my memory was dying on me. So I put up a list, list row so i put up a list list here real quick on Wikipedia about the stuff they produced and they, uh, yeah, I think pretty much, uh, besides like Besides like Mario Zelda and Captain N, the only things that their is I actually watched on a regular basis but have' been i would have been Inspector Gadget and G.I. 00:10:14.09 Greg Joe, and that was it. so And I think both of those shows are very good, and I think most people in my generation probably um ah probably i probably would consider that to be very good, but yeah. ah Looking at my list here, I can understand people people saying, having mixed feelings about them, dick because they produced a lot of stinkers too, it looks like, as well, too. ah just the Just going on the list. 00:10:33.11 Greg so i guess it so like i guess like yeah So my memories I guess are good because because because because the shows I watched were either play with flag with good cartoons for the time period or at least cartoons I have like Strong Nostalgia 4, which we'll get into later on I'm sure. so but yeah 00:10:51.11 Jala Right, right. So ah the writers, as I mentioned, they weren't gamers and they were given a VHS and told to watch it. 00:10:58.63 Jala And that's how they picked up on what the monsters were like and how the gameplay was like and all of that mass. But um when they were trying to conceive of what they wanted to do with the show, they were like, oh, we're going to emphasize the story over the gameplay. We're not gamers, so we're not going to worry about that so much. And I'll put a pin in that because I want to hear y'all's opinions on that. But um in a minute. ah The show actually was supposed to be a mix of action, comedy and drama, taking a strong influence from moonlighting a show from the 80s that had Bruce Willis in it and Sybil Sheppard. And um basically they wanted Lincoln Zelda's relationship to mirror Bruce Campbell and Sybil Sheppard's characters in the show. And I watched little clips of it and I'm like, oh, yeah, like I can understand exactly what they mean by this because 00:11:50.22 Jala um the character of David is really fucking annoying. Just really, really annoying. 00:11:55.14 Still Loading I... 00:11:56.43 Jala And I'm like, boy, um, that's Link. That's Link, you know? And then Maddie is... 00:12:00.04 Still Loading I don't under I just don't get it. 00:12:01.45 Jala Yeah, huh? 00:12:03.02 Still Loading I just don't get why you would choose that type of influence. One of my what this is a very much a me problem. Just to be clear, I don't ah this is like not a soapbox that I'm willing to get on to proclaim like this is definitively bad. But like I can't stand shows where all the character, all the main characters are bad and that's the purpose of it. 00:12:22.58 Jala Yeah. 00:12:22.92 Still Loading Like the like Seinfeld was like that. It's always sunny is like that. um the league was like that where all the characters are narcissistic assholes or something like that or some other form of like negative social trait um i i don't i don't understand the appeal of that like just everyone's mean and that's the joke of it like i i don't know so when this show does that and i had never seen moonlighting but when you told me that and after watching this this whole series and i'll i'll 00:12:55.64 Still Loading spare the specifics, but the long and the short of it is I can't stand the character characterizations of the characters in this show. like i'll I'll go into more detail as we get a little bit farther along, but it's really I'll be honest, just knowing this, it it convinced me to never watch moonlighting. 00:13:12.00 Jala Right. Right. Right. And so um talking about like an initial reactions to this, like when I first watched the show, when I was a kid, I was so excited because first off, um I got to see these characters that I love because I love, especially the original Legend of Zelda, even though I never got anywhere in that game. 00:13:31.09 Jala And that's fine. That wasn't really the point, you know, um of a lot of Nintendo games that didn't feel like, you know, but um Anyway, I was so excited to see those characters. And then when, like, Link starts up and I'm like, this is not what I was expecting my hero guy to be. This is not my Link. What is this? You know, and then I was like, and then I was like, OK, well, Zelda's capable. That's cool. I'm glad because I was always looking for strong female characters. And so I was like, OK, I like the fact that she's very capable and she's saving Link about as much as Link is saving her. 00:14:06.53 Jala But then they turn her into just like this little snooty, you know, fussy, bossy, you know, kind of person a lot of times. And she's not as bad as Link is overall, I don't feel. But like neither one of them is great. And I'm just like, I don't I don't like I don't. Why did they have to make her like this? You know, like she could have just been really capable and very cool and, you know, whatever. And then, like, not that that would have made the show better because then Link would just be really crappy. 00:14:36.66 Jala You know, yeah I don't know. I just my favorite character in the show is Ganon. That's it. That's all I have to say. 00:14:46.30 Still Loading Yeah, and I got nothing. I just, I, ah it it really, the whole thing is just discouraging to me. The only, ah the only thing, and I'm in agreement with you, the only thing that is saving to me is Ganon. That's the only thing that saves this cartoon for me. 00:15:03.80 Jala Right, right. Well, I think Greg, though, has a totally different opinion on this. So Greg, um what are your feelings about Link and Zelda's personalities in this show? 00:15:15.38 Greg Uh, I agree with you guys in broad strokes. I never, um, you know, I don't dislike them as much as like what you two do, uh, do though. Um, I do agree, getting is the best character of the best character, like in the show period because, um, but yeah, so, uh, yeah, I was, um, I was, you know, I do like Zelda, how she portrayed better than Link because, you know, like you know, he folks said, Zelda, at least as a Zelda, at least as someone capable like in this show. And like, you know, it's a, um, You know, we didn't really have a personality for her to go off in this time period, because it's this time period, because it's like she was she was hardly in the two games. So there was a lot of lot of interpretation for how he wanted Zelda to be portrayed. If they tried to do this now, people would have like a ride, because you know with all the different games and all history being established over the years, both over the franchise. But Link, at least, people people people had had had characters in mind already because of the two games. 00:16:11.10 Greg um Even though I think the cartoon more heavily leans upon Legend of Zelda for influence, there are some Zelda II influences here as well also. but um So I think that Link therefore took most like the most of the hate because people, what they saw in the cartoon didn't match their headcanon of like what like what he was like. ah And yes, he was here and yes its definitely things there's definitely things to think about Link like that I don't like very much. you know he's Uh, you know, slightly know he's whining, he's annoying. 00:16:43.78 Greg Uh, he's definitely a teenager. I, I think he's, um, you know, I, I think he's the same age that the same age that he was in Zelda two. So, uh, there's definitely, yeah does that there's definitely some, uh, arousal slash unwanted attraction towards Zelda that goes on in the cartoons for sure. But yes, but, um, but at the same time, he's also, but at the same time, he feels like he's also brave. 00:16:58.44 Still Loading That's putting it mildly. 00:17:05.86 Greg He's also, like he's also been just some, uh, you know, he is willing to. He's going to put down his own feelings, his own feelings, ah and his own desires. It's like the greater good of the Triforce, the Kingdom, or whatever. It's been paid to do. um And, you know, like funny there are times when we talk about the episodes later on. There are times, definitely, where you can feel sorry for him do because he's going through it and everything. It's like, you know, he's a teenager. You know, they're both teenagers. But Link moreso is a typical teenager. 00:17:37.39 Greg which the writers were of the age group. A lot lot of the watchers were probably of that age group. You could you could definitely relate to that more so. I think you know i think was i think it's probably easier to easier to connect to connect would connect with them back then as it is now. This is definitely one of those cartoons I'd argue that probably is better on nostalgia than actual but than actual quality of work ah for the reasons. 00:18:02.64 Jala Right. 00:18:05.62 Greg There are genuine things there are general there are general things that i genuine things I really love about love ever like love about the cartoon, which we'll get to later on, I'm sure. But ah yeah, Betrayal was not the best, but they didn't really bother me that much. It's like, you know, it's like you know just like, they're basically set pieces for, they're not the main focus of but the main focus of the show, at least in my mind. I care more about, um you know, the action and the kid the action and the background characters, the music and everything else, and I did so much you know, Lincoln, Zelda, you know, um how they were portrayed, how they interacted, like they can interact like one another. So I get the writers, I get the writers a pass ah on this for the most part, because because it because all the circumstances going on with the creation, like the creation of the show, like a whatnot. 00:18:53.16 Jala Well, and I also have to say, too, a few things. So first off, the way that Link is portrayed here is the way that a lot of male characters were portrayed, like protagonist characters were portrayed at the time, like not just in moonlighting, but in a lot of things. 00:19:06.54 Greg true yeah 00:19:09.51 Jala And it was, quote unquote, OK for you know him to be lusting after Zelda and try to always get her to kiss him because like she could always just say no and when he said no he didn't or she said no he didn't push it he just left it alone and moved on but like that was a lot of the way that you saw everything in media at that time but then too um 00:19:29.65 Greg Yeah, yeah. 00:19:34.54 Jala another thing There were a couple of other things I was thinking about when you were talking. One of which is that if Link and Zelda like were milk toast, if they were just the little cookie cutter Link and Zelda, like the voiceless Link that doesn't really have much of a personality from the game, who's just basically milk toast. You have milk toast him. And then you have Zelda who's just like, save me, Link, save me all the time or whatever. then this show would not be so memorable, right? um A lot of what you remember, you remember all the goofy hijinks with ah the critters and the action stuff is very cool. um You remember Ganon, of course, but like Link and Zelda, you wouldn't even remember them if they were you know ah less strong of a personality. 00:20:20.16 Jala and then the other thing is that the thing that you said when you're like when you watched it when you're like like when I watched this I was like eight not even eight years old I was you know um like seven when this when this came out so you know when this came out and I was seven years old you know my response to it back then I guess I chafed a little bit at the presentation but I just kind of accepted it and moved on right um a lot of characters in 00:20:44.75 Jala media from those times were freaking annoying, you know? um And that's just like, I don't know why, but the way that all the characters are written in a lot of cartoons and things. And, um you know, the way that I was able to get on board with it back then is different than turning around and watching it at, you know, 40 something. and turning around and watching this show, right? 00:21:06.95 Jala Like when I was seven, that's a vastly different experience. So, you know, I think you really are onto something there, Greg, when you're like, it's really, it's better in nostalgia. It's better. You know, it's also better if you like a little kid who was in the eighties at the time, like this is so much of its time that like I wouldn't even say that a young kid watching this now would have the same response that a kid in the eighties would have. 00:21:29.05 Jala There's no way because society is different. Right. So different. So. You know, it's very much like a a product of its time, but really meant to be consumed in its time as well. So, um you know, it's not like I'm trying to say, oh, like it gets a pass for all of these things that it's doing or whatever. 00:21:47.27 Jala But like understanding the media from the perspective of history that, you know, the history around it is important as well. So, yes, it did disappoint me at the time. 00:21:58.35 Jala But, you know, um at the same time, it's like. And also, like there there were a lot of characters that were like these characters in media. 00:22:04.96 Still Loading Well... Yeah. 00:22:08.81 Greg True. 00:22:09.91 Jala So you were going to say something, Josh? 00:22:10.74 Still Loading And yeah, I was just going to say, and like in regards to what you're saying, you're not giving it a pass. I think there's a weird trend that I see online of people like they'll watch some older media and then be mad about things that are problematic in it. And it's like, listen, you don't have to give it a pass, but like it's a weird hill to die on to be, be like, you know what, this show that was 00:22:25.30 Jala Yeah. 00:22:32.30 Still Loading ah was that was from the 80s or 90s or 70s and the stuff that was in it that wasn't that outlandish for the time, I'm going to be super mad about it. It's just weird to me. It's like be mad about stuff that comes out now that might have problematic portrayals because that that's the kind that's what's moving forward. 00:22:45.49 Jala Right. 00:22:49.60 Still Loading That is how we can see almost see some level of progress in society. you know But like it's weird to me that someone like... I'll you know I'll play up my frustration with like Link's ah sexism and his perviness for comedic effect on the podcasts. 00:23:05.43 Jala Mm hmm. 00:23:08.03 Greg Yeah. 00:23:10.51 Still Loading Though I will say, it I did watch this with my daughter, who's like three, and I felt really weird watching it with her. I'm like, I don't want her to think that guys act like Link at all. like 00:23:18.75 Jala Right, right. 00:23:19.67 Jala Absolutely. And you don't want anyone to give, ah you know, to grow up with that in their head you know and give people a pass. 00:23:26.53 Still Loading Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. 00:23:27.89 Jala Now, um you know now I don't know if this will comfort you or not, but a seven-year-old me watching this saw this and still was going to punch a fool if they decided to do a thing. So like you know that it didn't affect my capacity to understand the difference between the cartoon and you know the rest of life. right So ah you know like perhaps that will be comforting to you. 00:23:46.56 Still Loading That is it. 00:23:49.66 Jala But um I have to say this too, and I got to get it out there early. the Evil Jar the Evil Jar it's specifically for this tv show but 00:24:03.64 Greg Yeah, because the Zelda franchise was so new at this point, the writers, the writers, you know, because Nintendo really didn't get very much information to work with, writers really had to come up with a lot of things on the fly to, like, explain or explain things or create things in the show. 00:24:16.56 Greg And the two greatest things in the show that I think that I love on both points that they, that they reg created was the Evil Jar and also the magic bag that, um, 00:24:26.04 Jala Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 00:24:26.71 Greg yeah the characters have because it's like because it's like it's like both things you totally both things totally make sense you boy your teacher takes it's a boat I totally could see both those things like if I can start a video game but today he's like it's like it's like it's like news I don't see game center says something explained an Evil Jar which is where all the enemies are coming from it like okay that makes sense like yeah yeah that's fine so 00:24:49.49 Jala Well, the thing is, is that the Evil Jar was their way because they didn't want, what they were really concerned about here, and Nintendo was concerned about, was little kids taking a sword and beating each other up to try to kill each other like Link. 00:25:02.69 Jala And so they did a couple of things, one of which was they never have Link use his sword as a sword. He doesn't cut people, he shoots zappy lasers because kids can emulate shooting a zappy laser out of a short sharp pointed thing, right? ah you know or whatever, a toy sharp pointed thing. But like we don't want them actually hitting each other. So let's have zappy lasers. We're only going to have it like he has full energy on his sword at all times. And he's going to have zappy laser time. 00:25:33.36 Jala And then the other thing that they did was they had to explain how the monsters didn't die to keep it light hearted and also to make sure that it wasn't tragic and horrible. So they have an Evil Jar. So none of the monsters die. They just go back to the Evil Jar and then they come back out again. And then, you know, like that's it. They just get sent back to their realm and then they come back, you know. And um I really freaking love the Evil Jar. 00:25:52.05 Still Loading I, it, it reminds me of like, this is something Dr.Evil from Austin Powers would make. 00:25:55.85 Jala I love it. 00:26:02.65 Still Loading You know what I mean? And I mean that as a compliment because it's like, it's, I understand it probably wasn't meant for comedic effect on the show, but when Ganon has a line, what is it? 00:26:04.95 Jala Right. 00:26:11.11 Still Loading I think it's in like episode one, right? Where he's like to the Evil Jar. ah He like when he says I'll send you back to the Evil Jar and he like screeches it. It's one of the most amusing line deliveries of the entire show. Just get Ganon steals the show almost at every turn. It's he's wonderful. 00:26:28.99 Jala Oh, yeah, absolutely. 00:26:29.87 Jala We will camp out on Ganon in a bit here. But um I did also want to say, yes, the magic bag. 00:26:36.69 Jala Very good that you pointed that out, Craig, because that is so baller. I love the fact that they have the magic bag because it explains how Link can have all these things on him. And then theyre they're small and then they grow. And, you know, like it makes the little video game sounds when, you know, they're using them and everything. and it's very video gaming to have the magic bag of holding thing going and um i love that and i love that even though these people weren't gamers they put in stuff like the magic bag and all the items that they were using in the games and all of that mass now i wish not that ah it would actually run on an n nes but i wish that the games at the time 00:27:14.24 Jala could actually have Link and Zelda do the kinds of stuff they do in here, because they are freaking acrobats. And it's basically a sheet game, right? But we never got a sheet game, ever, ever. you know So anyway, um and on that note, I am um looking forward to, what is it, Echoes of Wisdom, the new ah Zelda, Zelda, the Legend of Link. 00:27:38.97 Greg Just announced at the show last week, yep. 00:27:40.75 Jala Yeah. Yeah. So, um, so either way, there's, there's that. So like, um, I actually, one of the things I wanted to mention too, is that the animators were the ones who decided to put Zelda in some pants. And I love it that they put her in some pants because they put her into an action role, you know, and then they actually let her do stuff. And she is capable in her own right. 00:28:02.72 Still Loading Yes. 00:28:04.52 Jala And I love that for her. And I love that for a little me watching this, you know, 00:28:08.14 Greg this Yeah, Link's outfit in the show is fine. onm your but you don like imagine what um Like, imagine what you see in the games. It's fine. But Zelda, yeah, as you guys you just said, y'all, great point. They did they did take liberties in an outfit, and I love her outfit from top to bottom. I mean, like, know like you know, like her long hair, ah the tunic, the pants, the boots, the high boots. Like, I have a thing for high boots nowadays, and I think that Um, I think, I think the show a very fun may have, yes. 00:28:33.52 Still Loading Did Zelda start that? 00:28:37.43 Greg I mean, I was 13 when this came out. 00:28:39.56 Jala Well, I mean, like, I have a thing for high boots, too, on me. Like, I like high boots on me. So, like, it it could be as a Zelda thing. But um yeah, the thing is, is that Nintendo loved this design. And I was sitting here, and I was sitting here thinking, and I'm like, you know, it's not very likely, but how wild would it be if the reason why Sheik eventually happened It was because they were thinking back to this property, this weird spin off in America of this 13 episode thing from the 80s, you know, where Zelda was like the action character and doing all these flips and stuff. 00:29:15.03 Jala What if somebody looked at that and was like, let's do that. Let's do that now, you know. 00:29:19.72 Greg Yeah, it's possible, but also like we also want yeah you know i think the more I think the more practical explanation is that people realize that pants are very practical and common everyday use, something like the use for people. So it kind of makes sense to stick somebody in jeans for like a role like that. But yeah, that's possible. 00:29:40.11 Jala Yeah, well, I'm just saying, I mean, like the later development of Sheik, if it actually came off of this show, that would be wild. 00:29:46.62 Jala So anyway, um yeah, I will also say, too, that I stand a brown haired link because um I that was one of the things that I loved about Zelda, ah like you know, the Legend of Zelda games and stuff. And it sounds weird. But really, like I was glad that there was a character that wasn't round like Mario, you know, ah that had brown hair because so many of the protagonists and so many of the games were blonde. And I was like, I can identify with this brown haired man. you know And with the brown haired man when I watch the show. 00:30:19.36 Greg Sure. 00:30:23.28 Still Loading Well, excuse me, Jala. 00:30:25.80 Jala Yeah, yes, I was waiting for it. and By the way, I will tell you, anytime we see, Dave and I see the name Kevin, we just go, Kevin, just automatically, and it's your fault. so 00:30:38.84 Still Loading ah for the listeners who don't know, on my Captain N episodes, once per episode, I limited it to once per episode. Anytime we would talk about you know the main character, the titular Captain N himself, Kevin, we would yell out, do the Home Alone Kevin screech just once, just very quickly. Otherwise, it just gets too annoying. 00:30:59.34 Still Loading So I'm glad it is seeing life after the podcast is over. 00:31:07.71 Jala Right, right. 00:31:08.39 Still Loading The series is done. 00:31:09.53 Jala So yeah, so um going on about the visuals, though, the monster designs were as per the video game. ah This included Warthog Ganon, who actually is really pretty scary looking like he looks like a real Warthog and, you know, like animate, you know, animated to look like ah a Warthog person, but 00:31:20.35 Still Loading Mm-hmm. 00:31:20.98 Greg god Yeah, yeah. 00:31:27.70 Jala yes and um yeah some of the other monsters are pretty scary looking too it's basically it's only because they're inept and gooby and they fail a lot and they're they are not very intelligent um that makes them funny or even sometimes cute like because sometimes the moblins are cute and and nonsense so yeah but like I love Warthog Ganon you can keep your big sexy daddy Ganon I don't want any part of that I am I am so here for Warthog Ganon and so I'm glad that in Echoes of Wisdom we're bringing back the Warthog Ganon so 00:32:03.07 Still Loading I mean, it's a classic design and I'm with you in general on the the overall visuals of the show. I think the designs of the characters as much as like I love Link's design. I like Zelda's design. I mean, the the basic enemies are pretty straightforward, but like Ganon's design is awesome. I think in general, what they did with the character designs for this captain n and even the Super Mario Super Show, like for like the weird random things they would add to it are all really fun and interesting. ah And i was genuine I genuinely liked the overall visuals of this. There was even a couple moments where um I forget, it was one of the latter latter two episodes. like It might have been episode 11 or 12 or something like that. And there was some like the animation in this like surprised me. a couple of times because, you know, DIC isn't necessarily known for its high quality animation. And there's a couple moments in in, especially in the latter episodes, where like, Link's doing like a backflip and it's very smooth. I was very surprised. 00:33:04.09 Jala Well, and then too, there are a couple of moments of just like the art direction that are really kind of cool. Like, um, there's what whatever episode it was where the King was captured and put into that room with the the floor that was shrinking, which is absolutely horrifying by the way. 00:33:19.83 Jala Like that was scary to me as a seven year old when I watched that episode and I was on pins and needles, even though like I knew it, you know, They're not going to actually kill the king. 00:33:20.29 Still Loading Hoo Yeah. 00:33:29.23 Jala But um you know, but then when Ganon shows up and he teleports in, you know, he teleports in onto this of the wall, but like, you know, horizontally sticking out from the wall. And it's really freaking cool. 00:33:42.83 Jala And like, you know, it just kind of shows how strong he actually is, even if he's a gooby gooberson, you know, so. So yeah, and um yeah, the animation overall is of a pretty consistent quality, especially when you compare it to something like Captain N, where you just had, like, there are some some parts. We'll get to those. um Like, there's one major egregious one that everybody can remember if they watched this show. But like, for the most part, it's not like in Captain N, where suddenly they just fucking forgot to put the background in, you know? 00:34:14.94 Still Loading Episode two, baby. 00:34:16.30 Still Loading I'll never forget it. 00:34:17.39 Jala Yeah, and so ah there's there sure is that. But ah let's move on to talk about the sound. So I love... 00:34:24.55 Still Loading Oh my God, it's ah it's so good. 00:34:27.46 Jala It's so good. ah The music is so good. And the sound effects are from the game. And that is so good. like That was a smart decision on their part to put the sound effects in and to remix that music. um they the my favorite theme One of my favorite themes from Zelda, other than the title theme, which I like the remix of when they they put it in the show. um The other one that I like is the dungeon theme, but the part of the dungeon theme that I really, really like is the beginning higher notes part where it's like doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo and all of that. 00:35:02.27 Jala And that's what's missing from the remix. So like it's not the part of the song that I like. So it's it's kind of sad to me because I'm like, oh, man, I would have loved to hear, you know, like a remix that included those elements. But oh, well. Oh, well, any. 00:35:18.82 Still Loading I was thinking when I was watching this, is this one of the first times in North America that we heard music from video games fully orchestrated? 00:35:32.40 Jala It might be because even the Super Mario Brothers show like it has parts of it, but it then it's like totally remixed. It's not it's remixed and then they put a wrap over at the top of it. 00:35:42.27 Still Loading Yeah, and even in like the cartoon, it still has it has more of like ah an electronic vibe. 00:35:47.27 Still Loading It's not like fully orchestrated. It's not the Mario stuff like in concert. like this like When you hear this, it feels like they they hired an orchestra. I mean, I assume so. I don't know how good the synths were back then, but like I, because it, you know, in Japan, like one of the earliest video game music albums, I was like Dragon Quest, which I think came out in like 89, 88, something like that. 00:36:08.30 Greg That was 86 in Japan. 00:36:10.94 Still Loading 86 is when, well, no, that's when the game came out, but when did the ah soundtrack, you know, like the fully orchestrated soundtrack. 00:36:18.65 Greg Oh, that I don't know. Yeah. 00:36:20.17 Greg Probably, probably like late eighties. 00:36:22.71 Still Loading like that was a lot more like that type of thing was popular in Japan for a lot it happened that started becoming popular in Japan a lot sooner than here in North America so when I hear this and I hear how good the Zelda theme and in general the overall music sounds like I think this is one of the earliest examples in North America just to be clear that 00:36:44.32 Still Loading You actually got to hear your favorite video game, some of your favorite music from a video game in like a full like recognize like ah mixed orchestra. or ah What's the word I'm looking for? It's like transpose. I'm trying to think when a... I can't think of the proper word now anymore. but um I just, it blew me away. I was just thinking like this this cartoon is like what 89, right? 00:37:07.60 Still Loading Is that what you said at the top of the notes? 00:37:07.83 Jala Yeah. Mm hmm. 00:37:09.50 Still Loading um That's crazy that they did all that in 89 considering like, it would be years until we actually got like a fully orchestrated soundtrack. 00:37:20.24 Jala Right. And that's part of the reason why I loved watching the show, even though it might be like an episode I didn't like as much. And even if, you know, like I'm like, oh, man, the characters are really like egregious in this or whatever. um I would still love to to watch it just because I like but love the music. And again, like how y'all have both said, like the action scenes as well. They're really just really fun. So, yeah, the the voice cast did a really good job. ah Jonathan Potts is the voice of Link and about Link, he said that he played him as the ultimate teenage boy like a puppy. 00:37:55.11 Jala If you can imagine what a puppy would be like running around peeing on the carpet and overreacting, everything was dramatic. And I'm like, this is perfect. This is exactly what Link is in this show. 00:38:08.79 Still Loading When you, I forget what it was. 00:38:10.91 Still Loading We were talking about how the writers, you know, like some of the stuff they did, like how successful it was these characterizations, like, or how good were they type of thing. I was going to say, I actually think the writers did a really damn good job on the show. I just don't like their decision making, if that makes sense. 00:38:26.39 Jala Yeah. 00:38:26.50 Still Loading Like, if they're going for that moonlighting vibe, they they nailed it. They absolutely nailed it. 00:38:30.11 Jala Yeah. 00:38:31.57 Still Loading Like, those characters, the characters of Link and Zelda are very strong and very pronounced. You may not like them, but they are very, they are very clearly defined. And I actually think the writing in this As much as I have issues with the choices, I think they did a better job, especially than Captain N. 00:38:49.61 Jala Yeah. 00:38:49.72 Still Loading ah It's not saying much, but they did it they did a good – there's actual like characters in this as opposed to like Captain N where Kevin isn't really much of a character as he is a caricature. 00:39:00.23 Jala Right. Well, and that's, that's part of my point. Like if I know Greg, you want to say something, part of my point though, is just that like, you know, when I was mentioning if link was milk toast, no one would care about him. 00:39:11.75 Jala No one would remember the show, you know, uh, like not nearly as so much if Lincoln, Zelda were both milk toast. And that's what I mean, because like captain N you don't like captain N because you like Kevin. You so you don't care about Kevin. 00:39:25.38 Still Loading Kevin. 00:39:26.01 Jala Yeah. So sorry, Greg. You were going to say. 00:39:28.46 Greg If I can go back just, just a little bit, these are a few points, like about the vision, the visual, the music that I wanted to say. 00:39:40.00 Greg Um, I agree with you guys that the visuals, the visuals, like the show are great. They, they, they definitely, they definitely caught the feel of the game. Um, I really love the underworld design. Like one of the things I really love about the show and and what really stands out, stands out in my mind, in my mind, what do you think about the show, uh, is the, ah like it's the underworld design. It's very. it's very It's very cool looking. A lot of the episodes show a very, like ah oh who is that artist who did those? i wrote there Yes, Escher looks. 00:40:08.81 Jala MC Escher, it's super Escher, yeah. 00:40:11.67 Greg Yes. yo know I love that design form. Because the design form has a very like you know cool Escher-like effect. And like um I I think terrifying. like Yes, I think, um you know, like you know um You know, as a little kid, um you know, since, like I said, I was 13 when this came out, the, the ah you know, the king possibly falling down the pit didn't really bother me that much. What did freak me out was in love the very last episode, ah when Ganon was imprisoned in the magical balloon and sent down like the bottomless pit. 00:40:43.22 Jala Yeah, that would terrify me too, because I was like, i in in between on the commercial breaks, little seven-year-old Jaller was like, he's going to die. 00:40:45.67 Greg Yeah. 00:40:51.25 Jala He's going to die in there and never get to the bottom. He's just going to keep falling forever. Oh my god. I was having a very hard time with that. And again, I knew that i knew he would come back out. 00:41:03.56 Jala I know you know. But at the same time, I was like, how are they going to do this? How is this going to happen? 00:41:09.27 Greg Yeah, even today, that thought terrifies me. 00:41:09.27 Still Loading And you know... 00:41:09.43 Jala Who's going to get in and out of the pit? you know 00:41:14.04 Greg So it's like yeah like it's like, so yeah. So, oh, and also um one of the episodes has like, one of the episodes also has like on I'm a witch of a wall made out of stone, like living with stone. 00:41:25.53 Greg That's very cool. i Like, you know, I really, like like I'd love to see that like in a game or something. The whole idea about that, I think, was like awesome. so 00:41:32.04 Jala It's wild if they haven't put that in in one of the games. 00:41:34.72 Jala I have not played every Zelda game to know, but yeah. 00:41:34.92 Greg Yeah. Yeah. yeah ah So ah overall, overall the animbi overall the overall i put the animation work the animation work in the show the like show was good. you know I agree with you that it was better than Captain N. It's not it's like not the best 80s cartoon in terms of animation. There's what happened does more I can think about that that are better. 00:41:53.55 Greg But at the same token, there are also some that are far worse. So, um I don't know what the budget for this was. I'd be curious to find out what that was. But I assumed the budget really wasn't that big. Because you mentioned Deck had had a habit of producing shows on the cheap and whatnot. So, from what they did, it's very typical. i mean I mean, you can look at an episode and an episode and be like, not know anything about it. And then if I write away, it's like it's an 80s project. 00:42:20.48 Greg Because you're overlooking a few of it. so um And the music also is great. I mean, I also love Captain Nend, the fact that you gain music as well, ill like in the episodes, but these they're three the music for the show is awesome. 00:42:33.08 Greg I know people who hate the cartoon, but love the music, and they play the limit the fact that like they limit the fact the music's not available out there, like out there anywhere by itself, just the music, without like, you know, um ah the voice that they got added onto, which I'm kind of surprised nobody's actually worked on yet over the years, but, 00:42:50.29 Greg ah because it big because there was because there was a ah music-only rip or ah rip from the show or the show the show or whatnot. I definitely would listen to that on a regular basis because the music in this because music is episode would really look that good. so um And yeah, going back to the voice cast, sorry. 00:43:08.57 Greg Overall, the go the voice cast work for this show is pretty solid. and I think it's like one of the best things up in the show, actually, because like I don't think um i don't think but i don't don't think I don't think any of these voice actors had a lot of experience at this time, Pierre, at this time, but you know I thought they all did a very good job with their roles, ah you know knowing the knowing the knowing the characters based upon what information Nintendo provided to them, what the writers wanted them to do, and whatnot. And like you know the fact that we all stuck up, as Y'all already mentioned, they there there there were three captain-ended episodes that also featured Zelda elements, 00:43:46.94 Greg And the fact that they got those same boy actors to reprise the roles in the Captain episodes is very cool also. so ah 00:43:53.17 Jala Yeah. And um so about the voices, though, I will say the person with lots of experience was Len Carlson, the man who did Ganon's voice. He also voiced all the Moblins. 00:44:03.37 Greg Yes. 00:44:05.21 Jala And you can tell that he has a lot of experience because, again, he chews the scenery every time he's on the screen and not just because like they made him look cool, but they also made him sound cool. 00:44:14.61 Still Loading hahaha 00:44:16.62 Jala And like the way that Len Carlson does the voice is so awesome because it alternates between deep dark and brooding like very very very deep and then high pitched and manic and squealing like a warthog would sound and so like and then there there's some kind of effect they put on his voice i think i'm on top of it to make it even creepier but like you know just the way that he's manipulating his voice to to say all of his lines. are like, it's just amazing. And I'm going to put a couple of links into the ah episode notes for listeners to take a look at, just to get an example of just how that sounds, because when his voice is going into its deep, dark, growly kind of, you know, mode, it is scary. 00:45:03.05 Jala because his character looks scary and he's brooding and like you know he has a lot of power. like His plans are foiled because of usually nonsense reasons or accidents. 00:45:16.17 Jala It's not because he himself is inept. right it's It's not that. It's not that he's inept. It's like his minions suck or there's some other kind of outside circumstance that happens or something that that happens to foil his plot every time. And like he's always constantly actively finding like new magic items and stuff that he's aware of because he's very learned and he he knows about all these different things that he's scrounging up and finding to keep on trying to get the Triforce and it just never works. 00:45:51.64 Jala It's funny, actually. 00:45:53.26 Greg So related to that, I'm kind of curious to hear what you guys like think about this. ah um i mean I have a big theories about this. It's like, The writers the writer the writers write the writers wanted to the writer writers wanted to bounce that. They one they met they wanted to make it again and powerful and smart, like you just said and whatnot, whilst making it defeatable. So they came up with the idea, and see you know what you see in several episodes, where like three shots of Link's sword or some other kind of damage put down on him is enough to send him back to the Evil Jar, basically the defeating him for the time being. because 00:46:23.92 Greg The Evil Jar rules were loosey goosey and they change episode, but the general idea is that if you're in the Evil Jar, you can't come back out again for a while. So ah it's interesting the fact that they kind of made Ganon vulnerable in that sense, because in the games, to begin and you have to do it' a typically say it's a much more complicated process. You have to first find him, then you have to use a silver arrow to hurt him, that kind of stuff. But here in the episodes, in the cartoon, just like three shots and that's it. so it's kind of, I understand why I did it, but it's also kind of like, could can you really be defeated that easily? But so yes, so I just have like big spots about that. 00:47:01.57 Jala right? I mean like for the purposes of the show they had to do something and then what they I think the way that they phrase it is like he's yeah he's de-energized and he has to go back to the Evil Jar to power back up again before he can come back out and then do whatever he's gonna do and you know like in that in that sense it's like all you have to do to defeat Ganon is just destroy the Evil Jar that's all you have to do and then 00:47:25.59 Greg What did they do in one episode? 00:47:26.80 Jala Yeah, they do. You're right. 00:47:28.43 Jala They do. They just destroy the Evil Jar in an episode, but then it just comes right back. 00:47:33.83 Greg That's why I said the rules about that thing are like a very loosey goosey. 00:47:36.43 Jala Right. Right. But I mean, like, you know, that's partially because the like the nature of the episodic beast. Right. And then um all of that mess. 00:47:42.65 Greg yeah 00:47:44.07 Jala And, you know, one might assume that basically Ganon repaired it. I don't know how you would repair it when it's glass. 00:47:50.31 Still Loading I mean, in that episode you're talking about, they burst that's episode 13, right? 00:47:56.48 Jala Oh that's the last one okay yeah mm hmm. 00:47:56.97 Still Loading That's the last time. Yeah, that they burst out of the jar that the moblins and the skeleton or the south coast, excuse me, ah burst out of the jar. And then they after they do that, they tell like the head moblin, whoever it is, tells them to move the jar into another place within the within like his underground lair. So they it immediately comes back together like no one repairs it. They just fucking move it. They just move it. 00:48:26.15 Still Loading um And you're asking Greg about like ah with Ganon, is he a little depowered or defanged, as it were, by Link being able to defeat him so easily? It never really bothered me because he's such a comedic character. It just kind of let it fit in with the mood of the entire cartoon. 00:48:47.71 Still Loading I will say with this episode 13, though, that we're talking about, I think it's the best episode of the show, in my opinion, um just because the you really It kind of ties into something you said before, Jaller, where Ganon is smart, and it's usually his minions that ruin his plans, and it goes to show where the entire episode, you know, his minions capture him because he doesn't think they're smart enough to do anything, and then they go to try to take out Link and Zelda in their castle, and they just end up defeating themselves over and over and over again to the point where Zelda's like, we don't even have to do anything. 00:49:18.53 Jala Mmhmm. Yeah. 00:49:22.99 Still Loading you Let's just go get the Triforce, right? and I was the only part of that whole episode that made me like mildly upset as links like or link or is out. I forget who said it said, oh, there's an entrance to Ganon's dungeon, you know, just down in our in our dungeon. Like we can just go to that. It's a shortcut. I'm like, if you know it's there the entire time, what like it's that it and you can see it when they when Ganon does get freed and they escape. 00:49:53.88 Still Loading and they have to run away from him, it takes all of three seconds for them to get from Ganon's lair to out ah ah from the little like stone that they lifted up to get down to Ganon's dungeon. i like what We've had 12 episodes of Ganon trying to figure out how to steal the Triforce, and he had a secret passage the entire time that both of them know about. like What is this? 00:50:17.34 Jala Right. 00:50:17.93 Still Loading Is this just like a gentleman's handshake? We're like, we will not use this. This is all very... This is not part of our agreed war. I don't know. It was very, very bizarre, but I found it i found it humorous. 00:50:30.48 Greg Cartoon logic. 00:50:32.22 Jala And then like to me, and the thing is, is that like the show kind of feels like it goes between the like entrances to the underworld kind of spring up in different places, you know, and then like, no, they're there constantly. 00:50:48.27 Jala But like, I'm not sure which one of those things is actually the case, because I think it just depends upon which writer was working on it, to be honest. 00:50:56.07 Jala So. um But yeah, like ah the overall premise of the show, because we haven't talked about that. Link and Zelda sit in a castle. There's nothing going on in the castle except they're hanging out and oh sometimes cleaning. And then ah Link is horny and Zelda tells him no. And then yells at him to clean if nothing's happening, which is a lot of the time. And nobody else lives in this castle except sometimes the king and sprite. And um Ganon is trying to get the Triforce of wisdom. Because at this time, the Triforce, even though it's called the Triforce, it's two Triforces. 00:51:33.47 Jala And the Triforce of Wisdom, the Triforce of Power. and um 00:51:37.16 Still Loading Just call it the Biforce for Christ's sakes. 00:51:41.18 Greg Yeah, I always did kind of wonder why they didn't use the Triforce of Courage as well. 00:51:44.29 Greg I mean, the Triforce of Courage had been introduced, like zoda two but they decided to just use two Triforces so they placed it at three. Maybe for ease of plot. 00:51:50.39 Jala Well, yeah, because like if you had three Triforces, then who has the second or the whatever, they like the other Triforce, who has the Triforce of Courage? 00:51:55.98 Greg yeah you're right 00:51:58.89 Jala You know, is that link carrying around that one? You know, like could be, I don't know. So, so either way. um But yeah, like ah from there though, like the story is just the back and forth of Ganon trying to get the Triforce and every once in a while, because Link and Zelda don't usually go into the underworld to go try to get the Triforce of Power. I mean, nominally, Zelda's like, we need to get the Triforce of Power because if we get the Triforce of Power, then we can rule all of Hyrule, you know, and both of them want both of them. 00:52:32.65 Jala But the only one who's actually ever attacking is Ganon. And like Zelda just is is cleaning in the castle. And this happens in multiple episodes where they're cleaning. And they like let's go clean the castle that nobody else lives in instead of going to get the Triforce. It's nonsense. It's some real nonsense. So like that's it. 00:52:50.96 Greg There is, yeah. 00:52:51.85 Jala That's the plot. Like there's like a few like There might be three people that live in Hyrule, and they're all in like one like one town that has like you know seven buildings, and there's like three people in the entire show that aren't. Because like they just had the limited budget, so they couldn't hire a lot of cast, and they couldn't put a lot of you know any more animation into the show. So it's pretty funny. 00:53:15.38 Greg So. Yeah, generally I agree with all that. the third There is one episode where Zelda gets pissed enough and she decides, you know, take master drone hands and I tell his link to go down and attack. 00:53:24.85 Greg But, but you're right. And like, I think that ah the the episode, the episode really only, the episode really only loosely imply this, but I would imply this, but I always got the impression that because it because the Triforce of Power, it's more powerful than the Triforce of Wisdom is. 00:53:41.22 Greg um So, basically, Ganon has the upper hand as far as the power balance goes. and like you know they're um and like So, Zelda and Link, for whatever reason, feel that they're better off defending, because Ganon does mention in the first episode that his powers are more limited than the upper world is area world as opposed to the um like suppose the underworld. So, there's like ah there's like a balance where it's like, Link and Zelda are more powerful in Hyrule, Gan's more powerful in the underworld, and like, you know, there's that kind of thing going on. But but yeah, generally I kind of agree, it's kind of strange, because they have to, it's the same plot hook, but saying they they but but overall it's the the same same loose plot hook that a lot of shows was and episodes and cartoons over the years have relied over heavy light upon. It doesn't make a lot of sense when they did they think about it logically, but it's like, okay, yeah, you know, you have you it's fine, it works for premise. By the way, the Triforce of Wisdom, 00:54:31.96 Greg I really like the Triforce of Wisdom how it was depicted in this episode because like you know because it actually talks. and that's like yeah ah um you know The Triforce actually seems like a hit they have a spirit or something inside of them. And like the Triforce of Power does too, which only everyone in the Triforce of Power speak in one episode. Wisdom, here you're speaking you quite a lot. and like you know her ah rims Her whimsical way of speaking in rhyme and whatnot. and like you know it It's kind of a cool way of imagining the Triforce because because because the Triforces wouldn't speak in games until later on. So again, I wonder i wonder to maybe, I think this is highly unlikely, but again, you you could say maybe maybe somebody got like got an idea for an idea of that, for looking at the cartoon. 00:55:19.82 Jala and And you're right, you're right. um There is the fact that Ganon has said that he's stronger in the underworld than he is in the overworld and Link and Zelda are two people. So even if they are far more capable than all of the minions of Ganon, sheer numbers can win the day potentially if you are going into a stronghold, you know, with a bunch of people and Ganon has his Evil Jar right there and everything. But, you know, something else I was thinking about when you were talking about that is that Zelda always brings the Triforce with her and not always, but oftentimes brings the Triforce to use it. 00:55:51.04 Jala But then Ganon doesn't he does it like once he uses the Triforce of Power once and he never brings it out of the underworld. And I think that's partially because like if he did, they would very easily send him back to the Evil Jar and take his Triforce. 00:56:05.52 Greg Thank you. 00:56:05.63 Jala But, um you know, like even when he's in the underworld, he doesn't go and grab it and use it, which is kind of weird. 00:56:11.79 Jala You would think he would. But anyway, like probably if we had a season two, that would have happened at some point, I think. But anyway, yeah, like let's go ahead and talk a little bit about like all the all the episodes we already have been. um We can kind of talk about like some of the discussion questions and then go back and forth on the episodes proper. So um I think everybody already answered the question of who is your favorite character. Everybody said Ganon. 00:56:39.05 Greg Hehehehehe. 00:56:39.11 Still Loading Yeah, like if you say anyone else, you're wrong. 00:56:42.78 Jala Right? 00:56:42.98 Still Loading yeah I'm just going to say it right. Sprite, absolutely not. She's the least annoying of the three, but she's oh maybe not the least. But she in my opinion, she's the least annoying of the three. um No, actually no Zelda. all Zelda's the least. I don't know. I don't like any of the main characters. They're not fun. 00:57:02.06 Still Loading the I still will never forget, like this is gonna stick with me for a long time, the beginning of episode two, where Link walks into his room, sees Zelda laying on his bed and yells, Smoochy time! 00:57:15.61 Jala yeah you got sent into another dimension when you were watching that 00:57:19.97 Still Loading I just couldn't believe it like what I'm flabbergasted. i don't even have Even though I recorded an episode on that exact moment already, I could have done an entire episode on that moment, probably. Let's be real. like I was so just astonished by that line. 00:57:40.30 Jala Right. Right. He's like, oh, hey, that's my signal. Oh, no. Oh, no. So, yeah. But some any other and any other thoughts? Greg, do you have comments on Ganon favorite character type stuff? 00:57:55.36 Greg Um, no, not really. I think I've sent my piece already on that. 00:57:58.21 Still Loading o I have a secondary favorite character the king He's just so goofy and dumb and I kind of love him for that he's just he's so happy-go-lucky He's like, oh I just want to do what's best for my subjects. 00:57:58.30 Jala Cool. Cool. OK, the king. 00:58:12.39 Still Loading I'm the one episode he builds a water park for everyone He's like so my subjects can cool off on a hot day and he's just so affable ah but he's very 00:58:14.98 Jala Yeah. 00:58:23.81 Still Loading he's very much like I don't know how he got to be king it definitely wasn't by being cut throat or ruthless it very much felt like he like yeah I could picture him becoming king where he like is wandering around discovers the cat the palace and then accidentally trips and puts a sword into the previous king it goes oh my that's how he probably became king 00:58:28.93 Greg Ha, ha, ha. 00:58:46.82 Jala Right, right, there you go. He just married somebody who was already a queen. That's what happened. 00:58:53.23 Still Loading Your royalty? Oh, I'll be damned. 00:58:56.11 Jala Yeah, pretty much. But I will say, too, that the king, like, OK, not the not the the more nonsense parts of the king, but like his general nice laid back nature and stuff really gives me Josh vibes, Josh, like, you know, not the not the negative parts of it, but just like just his overall just like really nice guy. 00:59:09.92 Greg Okay. 00:59:16.63 Jala He's a really nice guy. And there's even that episode where Link is like, you know yeah oh, the king walks up and Link is all like preparing to to swing across from one tower to the other. And then the king's like, what are you doing, son? And he's like, I'm going to swing over into your daughter's room and in you know try to get her to kiss me. 00:59:35.20 Still Loading That I could. 00:59:36.34 Jala and then he's like oh okay well not like that you're not and he's like oh and then link thinks oh man i'm busted right but no then the king's like here you take flowers that's you're more successful that way it's like what and then like you know he's just like okay have fun bye toodles you know 00:59:54.79 Still Loading I am going to be sent when I cover that. 00:59:55.26 Greg aye yeah I actually love that host scene. yeah 00:59:58.23 Still Loading Sorry, Greg, I cut you off. Finish what you're saying. 00:59:59.90 Greg that's okay no sorry i was just saying yeah you know I actually love that host scene because it like burie it's very comical. Oh, the best part is Oh yeah, oh yeah. And the best part of it is that it ends by him, by the King saying, you know, good luck boys, slapping him on the back, not realizing how hard he's gonna, not realizing how hard he's gonna say anything, Link, and then Link flying across the gap before he's ready and makes a whole like bust of it and almost like hurts himself. The fucking is out of his bedroom. It's been just a scene, so. 01:00:27.42 Jala well that's not the end of the scene because then he hands her the flower and then she's like you're so sweet and gives him a kiss like you know like it worked the king knows what he's talking about he's funny no i know i don't you would never you would never no 01:00:41.94 Still Loading he knows what his daughter likes. Now, I don't think if that situation ever happened to me, i don't if if I saw some young man trying to swing into my daughter's bedroom window, I probably would just cut the rope. ah but yeah 01:00:58.11 Jala You'd probably throw him off the edge. No, and no, you wouldn't. You're too nice. But um no. So. So. But the thing is, too, is that like I also think that the king knows that Zelda is not going to take any blank shit. 01:01:06.53 Greg ha ha. 01:01:09.37 Jala So um there's also that like I think he has faith in her capacity to put him in his place. 01:01:10.09 Still Loading Yeah, she is He knows his daughter he knows his daughter 01:01:16.71 Jala So. Right let's move on and talk about ah what is your favorite episode of the show? 01:01:28.94 Still Loading Well, I already said that my favorite was episode 13 with the Moblins revolting just because I like that whole idea and just how they kind of foil themselves. If I'm not going for that one though, i may ah I'm going to have to think on it a little bit because I want to see if I can think of a of a second one. 01:01:49.26 Jala Sure. Put a runner up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 01:01:52.52 Still Loading Yeah, like a runner up because I really liked 13. 01:01:52.95 Jala So, right. Well, so my favorite episode would be the doppelganger episode, uh, just cause doppelgangers, you know, are, are a really cool concept and the doppelganger episode, which episode was that? 01:02:07.50 Greg ah That was episode 7. 01:02:07.64 Jala ah Seven, episode seven. 01:02:09.81 Jala Yeah, so episode seven was really, really cool. um That's where there is a copy of Zelda that is like from a magic mirror, which this episode, like that that episode concept came from Eve Forward's D and&D game. She was 16 at the time, and she also, she co-wrote that with her brother Bob, but she also wrote The Moblins Are Revolting, the episode you like best, Josh. 01:02:32.98 Jala And she was 16 when she wrote it. so Um, but yeah, like the doppelganger episode, that's like the evil Zelda and everything. And, um, what, there are things I really like about it. Like I actually like link in that episode because he realizes pretty quickly that it's not Zelda, you know, like unlike most. doppelganger type stories where the doppelganger is able to fool everyone. Like, Link is not fooled. He understands and he rolls with her anyway because she's like, or he's like, oh, well, I can find the actual Zelda if I go with the doppel, you know? And so, and he does a little fucking around because, you know, he's Link and he's, you know, have whatever teenager age he is. But like, 01:03:18.34 Jala you know he actually understands the assignment, right? you know And I'm like, okay, props to you. You actually are are doing a ah good job in this episode. So I think maybe E forward, her influence is where that is because like, Blink is also not really annoying in the last episode either. So um that, 01:03:39.88 Still Loading I had no idea that E. Ford is part of this like family of like crazy writers. 01:03:47.59 Greg Hahaha! 01:03:48.50 Jala and the the park episode was The Water Park episode was pitched to Bob Forward, who is one of the primary writers. 01:03:49.61 Still Loading That's wild. 01:03:56.64 Jala like her He is he is like the the lead writer on the show. ah martha Martha is his mom. and She pitched the idea for the Water Park episode to him. and so She's credited Bob and Marcia Forward as the two people who did the Water Park episode. because she came up with that idea when she was sitting there with her two two children who were writing for Deke at the time. So it is, it is. 01:04:21.92 Still Loading That is wild. 01:04:23.60 Jala And so it really was a family thing. Like the forward family really made this happen. so um 01:04:28.68 Still Loading A forward family. 01:04:29.86 Jala Yeah. So anyway, that's that's cool. So I liked the Dopple episode. That's also the one where that weird um mistake in the animation was, where they painted, they for a second they painted Zelda as the Dopple Zelda's colors. 01:04:40.08 Greg Yes. Yep, yep, yeah. 01:04:46.43 Jala And then it like it changes back pretty quick, but it was very confusing at the time. And then like for everybody, i I was glad it wasn't just me that was like, huh, that's weird. you know I wonder who that is. 01:04:55.16 Greg I saw that right away when it first came out. 01:04:57.62 Greg I'm like, you know oh, that's oh yeah that's an obvious error. 01:04:59.00 Jala Yeah, that's a flub. 01:05:02.28 Jala So, yeah, so if I had to pick a runner up of episode, it would be the missing link, ah which is the one where Link is you know captured, like his body is captured and put into the evil 01:05:13.25 Still Loading Oh, that is a really good one, yeah. 01:05:15.37 Jala Yeah. And then like his spirit is there and he's trying to instruct Zelda on how to go about stuff and like helping her and everybody else can hear him, but they can't see him. She's the only one who can see him. And then you find out that the reason why ah she can see him is because she's in love with him. And so she gets really upset and uncomfortable and she's denying it. and 01:05:36.00 Jala I only like you a little bit. 01:05:37.68 Jala you yeah and still It is very cute, but it's also very funny because Ganon gets this great line where you know he's the one who realizes and puts it together and goes, wait, if she can see him, the only reason that she could see him is because she's in love with Link? Oh, how disgusting. 01:06:01.38 Jala He was so upset. It was so good. It was so good. So, um, yeah, and I do not like in there how, uh, they make Zelda seem inept when she's using the Chris sword. So, you know, like she can't seem to wield the Chris sword and, you know, like links, like you shoot like a girl and, you know, doing bullshit like that and saying stupid lines and and everything. And she's like, she eventually sort of gets the hang of it, but not really because she's not allowed to have the cool sword. 01:06:32.56 Jala It has to only be the guy. you know So I don't like that element, but everything else about the episode is very fun. 01:06:41.45 Still Loading Uh, I would say my runner up episode and the only reason I'm doing this, yeah the only reason I'm picking this, it's not because it's like the story is strong. It's called a hitch in the works and it's, it's episode 10 and it's where basically lee wants to get out of some chores. 01:06:56.99 Still Loading So she, so he, uh, tries to, is it yeah, he wants to get out of working. And so he, gets someone to try to make fake moblins to like ah basically like allow him to save the day type of thing and Zelda finds out and um basically gets captured by real Moblins because she thinks they're the fake ones. The only reason I'm choosing this is because the guy that he gets to try to make the fake Moblins, his name is Doof and i I love that. 01:07:27.87 Jala Yes! 01:07:29.54 Still Loading So Doof is my boy and ah i'm im I'm putting him in for as the runner up just because of Doof. Long live Doof. 01:07:38.82 Jala Well, I have to say, uh, when you get to that episode, if you do not mention the fucked up animation with his eyes, like there's, there's multiple, like I kept on so sending you guys screenshots of all the fucked up eyes. 01:07:44.91 Greg It's not fair. 01:07:51.07 Jala Like Zelda has a weird eye thing going and then doof. I don't know what was going on. There's just like a particular still that I sent to you that is just wild. If you do not use that for your cover art, I don't know what's wrong with you. So, so anyway, um, Greg, how about you? What are your favorite episodes? 01:08:08.90 Greg Uh, well, well, I agree with you. Doppelganger is probably, Doppelganger is a strong episode. I probably say that one's a fucking runner up episode. Uh, I've always, I've always, like, I've always, like, through that but I've always, I've always loved, uh, I've always loved a, um, uh, Kiss and Tell episode episode number four as my favorite because, uh, both Kiss and Tell and Doppelganger have, and kind of a kind as everything's common where a Link gets in trouble, uh, in those episodes, he needs Zelda's help to save him, basically. So we get to see Zelda being the action hero of like for change, which I really like. um You know, how effective Zelda is, can be argued, you know, he makes good points there about... He makes a good point there, Joe, like about that. But overall, I like, what you you know, I like, um you know, I like things before with the form is turned on its head. And in both these episodes, Zelda had me to help link out. I felt like it was really a strong structure for me. um But I can't tell. You get to see some very cool design elements such as that. 01:09:07.50 Greg You know, that's what I was talking about before that has that, like, that has that, like, that has that wonderful, like, that has that, has that wonderful, like, which in the wall thing with it. So, you know, in Zelda, it's also, and it's also the episode where Zelda shows off some very impressive, like, aerobatic moves. Like, you know, like, like, Link does some stuff in the episodes, but Zelda very seems like she'd put them to shame if she wants to with fire moves. So, and like, You actually, and off that episode, you actually see like, Link actually like break down in one point because, you know, if they actually like, you know, he'd be good because the episodes he's so, he's so arrogant and cocky because he's so with like teen, you know, your typical teen behavior. He's like, he's so, he's so confident all the time. This like, um, well, confident at least like inward, um, uh, outwardly, you you know, he, there are other episodes which he shows, should show signs of being weak. 01:09:59.85 Greg But he's always trying to portray a very strongness theres strong impression and ne upon Zelda. Like, upon Zelda, that's like, upon everybody else. But, you know, in an episode when he gets turned into a frog, and he realizes, and he realizes he's lost everything, really he he really has kind of a breakdown of that. And I really, like, sympathize with him in that way. Because, like, I don't, because, like, you know, Link is not the most likable character in this episode, sure. But there are times, there are times in the series, in series, with series where I feel bad for him. And there's definitely one of them, because, you know, it's a pretty horrifying thing to have yourself changed to a frog. and not being able to do anything to to directly directly directly to do anything about it. So, um you know, and there's also, you know, you know, you know and this this is that this this episode also features like very strong design elements for designers like the underworld, and it's an action scene and stuff like that. So yeah, it's like, you know, those two episodes have a lot in common, which is why I guess I put like both of them like a one and two for me. 01:10:50.75 Jala Right. And the thing about the kiss and tell, like you're very right about the fact that you feel empathy for link when he breaks down. Cause he cries, he cries in the episode and then Zelda gives him a hug and she's like, I'll still be like, don't worry. You still have me. I'm still your friend. and everything and then like later on when he finds out that the only way to cure is his frog frog self is for like a kiss from a princess a willing kiss from a princess and so he's like oh my god she's not gonna do it I don't know what to do. you know And then Zelda's like, no, of course I will, you know if that's the only way. But then um Ganon interferes, so but then Sprite feels bad for him and kisses him. And then you find out, oh, Sprite is the the princess of the fairies. So she actually you know can do it too. 01:11:39.66 Still Loading a plot thread I completely forgot about until that water park episode. 01:11:46.09 Greg Same. 01:11:47.19 Jala Well, that's because Zelda's ordering a fellow princess around as if she's a servant. 01:11:52.79 Jala And that's the thing, because the king, the king, her father is like, oh, yeah, I was talking with a fellow king and like they're bros. 01:11:52.83 Greg True. 01:12:00.59 Jala But then like Zelda is treating Sprite like so that that's part of what makes me think that like maybe they didn't realize that they were going to make Sprite into a princess until they decided to write it in that she was a princess. You know what I mean? 01:12:14.45 Jala Because I don't know how else that could have come about because like that doesn't make any damn sense. So. 01:12:20.66 Still Loading I mean, there's lots of things that don't make any damn sense in the show. 01:12:22.02 Jala Yeah. 01:12:24.02 Still Loading i I don't mind it. it's It's just one of those things you just kind of accept with old video game cartoons, but there's there's a lot of things that don't make any make any sense. ah Like I mentioned before with like, why is there that one secret passage? I can just go back and forth with relative ease and you never use it at all until the final episode of the whole show. 01:12:38.64 Greg Yeah, yeah. 01:12:45.03 Jala Well, yeah, I mean, like Captain N, if he has that pause, the all powerful pause button, he could just pause and then kill mother brain. 01:12:48.53 Still Loading but like why 01:12:52.02 Jala And that's the end of the show. The end. It's all saved, you know? 01:12:56.07 Still Loading I mean, there's also like so many moments in in the Zelda cartoon where Ganon shows up and both Link and Zelda freeze. They're like, oh no, Ganon's here. 01:13:06.13 Still Loading And I'm like, you could've zapped him like three times. 01:13:09.72 Jala Like all you have to do is just like, you know, work on, on your speed link and you can just bam, bam, bam and done, you know? 01:13:17.08 Still Loading But drama, we need more drama in our show. 01:13:20.08 Still Loading We can't do that. 01:13:21.46 Jala Yeah, right. 01:13:22.01 Still Loading ah So yeah, i there there's so I don't know. I'm losing the thread already. There's lots of moments that you could that you could pick apart. But that's I mean, with this cartoon, that's not why you watch it like you like it's fun to pick it apart. 01:13:36.32 Still Loading And that's that makes good like conversation and funny, like, little nitpicks, but ah that's not why you watch it. I i will say though, i I think in general with this show, it's one of those ones where I don't know how much I would watch it outside of doing it for content. and That's just kind of like after watching the whole thing. I don't know if I don't know what i would if i would watch this again. 01:13:59.82 Greg yeah Yeah. Yeah. Generally speaking, I agree with you because I have both Captain na and Zelda also like an DVD box sets, which are cool because they have like bonus features, or bonus features like that the extras on them as well too. risks like But it's like, you know, but it's like I only watch them, you know, I only break them out to watch them maybe be once every like 01:14:19.50 Greg three, four years that the Mutrex made because as you guys found out, the show is very vengeable because these are only 13 episodes, like 16 minutes each. So it's like a few hours a year, a few hours a year, not the whole series. So it's not a huge time for me. But yeah, it's fun to revisit every now and then for nostalgia, but it's not something that I watch. but but something like It's not like I show that I rewatch it on a more regular basis. I probably rewatch Transformers Generation 1 more frequently than I do with Zelda, for example. So, just to give you an example of how it fits into the overall framework of nostalgia in these cartoons. 01:14:59.02 Jala Well, for me, I would say that like the main reasons why I ever pull out the Legend of Zelda cartoon to watch it because I also have it on DVD is because I want to listen to the music. I want to see that animation and like those. 01:15:12.87 Still Loading So good. 01:15:14.21 Jala Again, the action scenes are cool you know when they pull out the stuff. 01:15:16.65 Still Loading They're not bad. They really aren't. 01:15:18.53 Jala like I say they're cool because like I like when they pull the stuff out of the magic bag and they start using it. right and like It gets bigger and then they're like you know zapping the the critters and and getting rid of them. Then, of Of course, why would anybody watch this show except like they got to see Ganon? 01:15:34.10 Still Loading And all of his, and all of his boxing and like random antics. 01:15:37.59 Jala oh Yes. Yes. So like that's the next question on my discussion questions is like the best moment or scene in the show for you. And, um, I have to say like that first episode where Ganon is like shadow boxing and he's like, no, you idiots get them, get them like this. 01:15:52.88 Greg Okay. 01:15:56.31 Jala And then he starts giggling and shadow boxing. 01:15:59.88 Jala And it's like a long, like several seconds of him just going, yeah, Yes, he's sitting there like boxing shadow boxing to himself and it's just like what is happening? 01:16:12.17 Jala You know, it is so silly and that's like probably one of my favorite ah the absolute favorite moments in this entire show. 01:16:21.23 Greg Yeah, yeah, yeah, so I'll see you that, I'll see you that moment. A moment like I raised you is famous, it's famous, I'm very upset and tantrum like I was thinking the only episode. 01:16:30.41 Greg That is so good. 01:16:31.38 Jala Yes, where he's just like, oh, the Triforce, where is the Triforce? 01:16:37.45 Jala It isn't here. and then he runs from one side of the room into the other and he's throwing stuff and he's like, I'm very upset. It's just so good. 01:16:49.49 Still Loading I think that's my favorite part of the entire ah show as well. That the the I'm very upset is just like, you know what? Good job labeling your emotions, Ganon. 01:17:00.46 Still Loading I'm proud of you. know Really trying to figure out like why you feel the way you feel. like i'm I'm proud of you. 01:17:06.28 Still Loading You're working through it. 01:17:07.44 Jala Right. Well, I got to say too, I really liked the part like the very, very end of the last episode where he's like, this throne room is a mess. All of you, you know, like Ganon's talking to his minions that threw him in the the endless pit. And he's like, all of you are going to clean it up with your tongue. You know, and he's just his voice gets real low and then you just see them all licking licking the floor because like they just have to clean it with their child like because of me like little little me I was very clean as a child and that was upsetting deeply upsetting and I was like wow Ganon Wow Damn power move there Wow, you know, so Yeah, yeah, that's a really good part too 01:17:48.88 Still Loading i I also love the moment where the Stalfos is afraid of getting stung by bees. and It's just this just a bunch of just a bunch of bones. It's like, oh no, i can't I can't get stung by these things that are going to literally break on my body that I can't feel because it's just bone. I don't have any flesh left over, so I can't even get hurt. 01:18:11.26 Still Loading but it just I found it so endlessly amusing. And the way that they ran away, it was just so goofy. 01:18:17.40 Greg Yeah, the style forces definitely seem like there. I mean, like, you know, like, you know, you know stop was was later Zelda games were much more armed more powerful stuff. Wasn't these games are a joke, but it's like not only with that, there's also another moment. There's also another moment that comes in mind with stop post. I think it's in a. um Oh, uh, ah Yeah, in this episode, we're like, you know, like, like, where Link navigates his body back, he threatens to stop, it was like a bomb. It's like, you know, it's like, the Evil Jar is right here. He's not going to be hurt. You know, like, why is he scared of Link? He just like, you know, because like, he just had the memories of being brutalized by, by Link in the past. Or this day episode, like, we're like, it's like, we're like, Link comes up behind him and shouts out that he's there. And that causes him to like, just run out in a panic because like, he was able to shoot him. It's like, you know, they're, 01:19:05.04 Greg these forced apples have a PTSD. from others I think 01:19:06.84 Jala Right, they do. They so do. And I do have to say, like there's other things that I like too, like um the episode with the, um what's his name, Prince Vasod, where like there's there's a couple of things. 01:19:20.85 Greg I got said a lot too. Yeah. 01:19:22.00 Jala Yeah, there's a couple of things I like about that. So ah one is everybody's fighting over the damn rupee, including the critters that came to fight Lincoln, Zelda, like everybody's fighting over the fucking rupee. 01:19:33.57 Jala And it's like even the Prince Prince facade who shouldn't have to worry about money is fighting over this fucking rupee. It's like wild. 01:19:40.66 Still Loading It's the name that gets me. 01:19:42.57 Jala Yeah, I know. 01:19:43.15 Still Loading Prince facade. 01:19:43.17 Jala Yeah. Yeah. 01:19:44.71 Still Loading Hmm, I wonder what his character trait is. 01:19:47.09 Jala right, right? 01:19:48.08 Jala Well, and then, ah so I like that because they're everybody including the critters are are fighting over the stupid Ruby and makes me laugh. um The other thing that I like about it is um there's another part where the the art directing and stuff like really worked for me and really made me feel empathy for Link when he is feeling threatened by prince façade and he's like oh well so zelda wants somebody who's fancy huh i'll become a fancy fuck too you know and so he puts on this nonsense outfit and then he goes into the throne room and then you know everybody just turns and starts laughing at him and like link what are you doing and then everyone's laughing and if you just see his face up close you see them you know i'm like the king and the princess and prince façade like all above him 01:20:36.32 Jala and they're just laughing and then it just like kind of focuses on zelda laughing for a minute and how like you just know in that moment how link feels and how mortified and horror horrible that is it was so bad and so 01:20:45.57 Still Loading I... Yeah. 01:20:49.74 Jala Yeah. And then so he leaves and then, you know, later on, what I really like is that then when Zelda is being carried off and Prince facade won't go into the mud to come save her. Link hears her screaming and is like, ah, damn. And then he straight up says she's not worth saving, but I'll do it anyway. 01:21:09.95 Jala Like, Woo, he, did you know, set his feels, you know, he set his feelings and and made it very clear what he felt about it, about her and everything. 01:21:20.27 Jala And, you know, like that, that was really like a a good writing and in my opinion, so. 01:21:25.90 Still Loading That very much feels like the Looney Tunes joke, you know, I'll do it, but I'll probably hate myself in the morning. 01:21:31.68 Still Loading um And that that moment with ah Link getting like mortified, you know trying to trying to impress Zelda. And man, like not that never happened to me directly, but I can empathize with that, where I was such an awkward kid growing up, and whenever I would try to impress girls, it would it would always come off as something that cringy. And it just, seeing that happen, no one ever like laughed that like blatantly at me, but man, there's there's a couple moments that I can like, I shouldn't say moments like that, I can remember the feeling of that happening a lot to me. And it just, ah it that that was, ah triggering isn't ah isn't the right term, that's too strong of a term, but I can relate to that a lot. 01:22:19.16 Jala right you can empathize right it's triggering like that the empathy where you're like oh i i've been in those shoes before right so so yeah but um yeah let's talk a little bit about some of the other episodes that we hadn't mentioned yet because We've already kind of we're jumping around different episodes, but we'll we'll kind of talk about each of them. 01:22:38.50 Jala So ah the sing for the unicorn episode, ah that's the one where suddenly out of nowhere, Ganon has acquired a pegacorn like a Pegasus unicorn and like a flying unicorn, if you will. 01:22:51.08 Jala ah They call it a unicorn, but it's a peg of corn. Either way, he just flies in and gets the Triforce like has um some Vera's blow it up and then um you know This is the only time where you see the Triforce in pieces is this one episode where they blow up the Triforce to get pieces of it um in order to carry them off. And then like there's Ganon on a pegacorn and everything. And wasn't he going to try to take Zelda, but then he ended up with a king or something and then was just like, that'll do? 01:23:25.87 Jala Yeah, something like that. So in either case, like they had to go after the king and that's the one where he was in that room, wasn't it? 01:23:33.95 Greg I think so. 01:23:34.38 Jala Yeah, that was the one where he was in the room. like the he He goes and takes the king back to the underworld and then puts him in this room where the floor is shrinking, which you know then leads into a bottomless pit. So that that's where that was like, oh, that's horrible. you know So um they have a random character named Sing that came from somewhere else that they they just had to put a random Asian-coated character in, I guess. 01:24:01.22 Jala And yeah, like ah there's not really a whole bunch that's really notable about this to me, except for the scene with the floor, you know, like the opening up floor and everything, which was horrifying to me at the time. 01:24:12.98 Greg This is also the episode that has it hold that whole like swinging to the room with the flowers for a kiss that we talked about before. 01:24:19.08 Jala Oh yeah, that was in this one. Okay. 01:24:20.85 Greg yeah but and to me And to me that's the most memorable me me memo part about this episode because this was actually like one of the weakest episodes to me. 01:24:21.12 Jala Gotcha. Gotcha. 01:24:27.57 Greg Itjust didn't it didn't like land with me very well. so 01:24:32.62 Jala Right, right. So how about you, Josh? Did you have any anything to say about this one? 01:24:40.16 Still Loading Not really. 01:24:41.73 Jala ah That's fine. That's fine. It's ah it's a groaner. OK, gotcha. So ah then the next episode after that, that sinking feeling, um Ganon gets a hold of a big magic magnet that can basically pull stuff down into the underworld. So he decides to pull the entire castle. ah But actually, before he does that, he like the Zelda is horny and ready to get it on with Link because Link took her on a picnic and it's a pretty place and she's like oh my god and she jumps on top of him she straddles him and puts him at like lays him down and like she's yeah 01:25:14.88 Still Loading I mean, it just goes to show just the little amount of effort. That's all it takes for her. you know just ah Just the bare minimum. 01:25:21.92 Greg Wow. 01:25:23.88 Jala Well, what she has to deal with on the regular. 01:25:27.17 Still Loading That's true. 01:25:27.84 Still Loading That's true. Sorry I cut you off though. 01:25:29.83 Jala No, no. ah So um so either way, like ah she's ready to bone down at the beginning of this episode. And then she gets pissed and Link gets pissed because they're like, I'm so sick of this crap happening because, you know, she was she was having a good old time until she wasn't. So that's when they went to attack Ganon and all of that mess. 01:25:51.75 Still Loading Mmhmm. 01:25:53.01 Jala And yeah, I don't know. Like that was the very I'm very upset that was in this episode as well. 01:25:59.90 Greg Yeah. 01:26:00.00 Jala So, um, because like, uh, she, Zelda and Link got back to the castle and then Zelda's like, I'm mad. We're going to go to the underworld and go destroy Ganon. And you know, I'm going to take the Triforce with me. So she takes the Triforce, then he pulls the castle under and then he goes to the castle to go find the Triforce. And he's like, it's not here where I'm very upset. And right. 01:26:25.60 Still Loading I also love that whenever they bring the Triforce anywhere, Zelda has it on like a leash and she just like walks it around like it's her dog. 01:26:31.07 Jala Yeah. 01:26:33.99 Still Loading i thought ah Such a bizarre idea. like you can't Why can't you shrink it into your pocket like everything else? Nope, nope. Got to take you know the Triforce of Wisdom for a walk. Otherwise, it's going to, I don't know, leak wisdom all over the carpet. 01:26:48.60 Jala Right, right. Oh, and I confused the episodes. The one where they break the the Triforce into pieces is a few episodes later. So, Ganon, so you so um Greg, you were right. The episode with the pegacorn in it is the one where the king is like a helping Link get it on with his daughter and then he probably gets kidnapped because like Link and Zelda are together and then the king is over there and then Ganon is able to capture the king and go. 01:27:11.78 Greg Thank you. 01:27:20.34 Jala um The episode eight underworld connections is the one where um veres appear and then blow up the Triforce and the reason why link isn't in his room this time is that he sleep walks he shoots an arrow across to zelda's room sleep walks and goes over there and then while like zelda's like what are you doing and he's like i was asleep and whatever But then he says a so apparently a smooth line where he's like, but I just, I can't, you know, a sleeper awake, I think only of you or something like that. And she's like, oh, that's sweet. And she gives him a kiss. But then promptly, because he's not over there, the Triforce gets taken immediately by three bearers who come. um So yeah. and um 01:28:04.35 Jala In either case, then they have to go back and go get all the little pieces and stuff. And there's different different areas of the underworld they have to go to to get the pieces back to put it together. And you know that's about the end of that. like if There's a magic dongle, there's a fight, and so on. 01:28:19.70 Jala But it's not like the most memorable episode, really. 01:28:23.24 Greg No, it's not but i notice not, but I do think this episode has, day do I do think this episode has one of my, has one of the most favorable final like two minutes or two two, three minutes of the episode because you have that, first you have the whole, first you have the whole part where Link gives the hot piece of the Triforce to get it on purpose, knowing it's hot, and there's a hot potato thing going on there, which is funny. 01:28:44.19 Greg And then like, it's funny, you know, like Link using his battery shield to flame surf. 01:28:50.27 Jala Oh yeah, the flame surfing is pretty freaking cool. 01:28:51.18 Greg It's so cool. You know, I love that part. So. 01:28:56.06 Jala Yeah, that's true. that There are some good scenes that happen in that one for sure. 01:29:01.26 Greg I mean, he also serves, yeah also search me ah he also serves, also serves as a shield. Another episode later on too, I think, but you know, but the flame, yeah, the flame surface is even cooler. 01:29:09.95 Jala Yeah, yeah, for sure. That's because like you know you're you don't typically think about surfing on flames, you know like ice or something, you know or water or whatever that's different, but like and on flames, it's just that much more badass. 01:29:23.08 Jala How do you make a car badass? You put flames on it, okay? like That's it. 01:29:27.81 Jala so So yeah, and then ah another episode, ah you mentioned it sort of obliquely, um Josh, when you were talking about the Stalfo getting terrified by bees. So like there's the episode stinging a stinger where um there is a sleaze nose, a a little crooked old man who ah ends up cheating link and going like, oh you saved me let me give you this sword and I'll take your old one because you don't need it anymore but then of course the sword he gives Link is bunk and then he takes Link's actual sword and then he takes it to Ganon because he's like here you know you could you can have this sword or whatever um and all this stuff and he ends up um trading the the Chris sword or or whatnot um 01:30:13.53 Jala So then like there are there's a whole bunch of fighting back and forth and everything to um like get everything back together. Because Sleezenose is put into a predicament as well. like he Isn't he throws Sleezenose in with Link and Zelda into a the Goma's lair. And so like to let him die, you know, because um Link doesn't have a sword, so he gets captured and Zelda gets captured. 01:30:43.07 Jala Sleezenose, you know, was thrown in there because he's a ah lying liar of lies. So. 01:30:49.52 Still Loading One his name is sleaze. He has sleaze in his name. I wonder what his character trait is it the And the way he gets captured is that he after Lincoln Zelda get captured He waltzes in and into Ganon's lair and he's like I got a sword for ya or whatever his voice is I figure forget out what his voice is like and He That's pretty good 01:31:11.47 Greg yeah it is. 01:31:11.70 Still Loading um And he tries to sell it as you have in your notes here to Ganon for a thousand rupees. And I love Ganon's reaction. He's like, what? He like loses his mind. Like, that's what ridiculous. And then he just says, I'm just going to take it by force. And he takes it by force. 01:31:29.28 Greg Gee, I would have seen that coming. 01:31:30.45 Jala And so like when the like Link and Zelda take out the Goma, it's pretty interesting the way that they end up doing that. But while they're battling the Goma, um they have Sleezenose use his lock picks to get them out of there. ah But then like they have to then try to um you know take like take in and down but they don't have the firepower they usually do so the Triforce of wisdom tells them okay since you don't have your normal magical means you need to use natural means which means bees and like there's lots and lots of bees and ants and we're gonna use bugs we're gonna beat Ganon with bugs so uh that's that's how that goes um the funny thing about it for me at the very end of the um 01:32:02.64 Greg Ha ha ha. 01:32:16.62 Jala episode is like there's this exchange between link and Zelda where Zelda's like link we won kiss me and then he says I'd be glad to honey and she's like oh i hate i hate bad puns no and then like that's the end of that she's like nope you ruined it why did you talk so yeah that that was pretty funny 01:32:35.42 Greg Hahaha! 01:32:42.15 Still Loading I don't know. I did hate the puns. I, you know, I'm a dad. I understand dad jokes. Come on, man. Like, they're not, they're never that bad. Who, who doesn't love a good dad joke? Let's be honest here. 01:32:52.75 Jala me. I don't love a good joke. 01:32:55.34 Still Loading What? 01:32:55.39 Jala I hate them. I hate them so much. So I am so with Zelda here. 01:32:58.97 Still Loading oh 01:32:59.39 Jala Like if I was trying to, if I was like, yeah, give me a kiss or whatever. 01:33:00.11 Still Loading Okay, then. 01:33:04.16 Jala And then somebody said that I'd be glad to honey. Like I'd be like, nope, nope, nope. 01:33:10.48 Jala I'm with Zelda a hundred percent. 01:33:11.83 Still Loading What my favorite dad joke, I can't say it anymore because I'm actually a dad, believe it or not, as weird as it is. 01:33:18.35 Still Loading But the dad joke is I love telling dad jokes, but I'm not really a father. So I guess I'm a faux pas. 01:33:25.47 Greg Okay. 01:33:26.47 Still Loading Come on, that's actually clever. 01:33:28.03 Jala No, no, there are so many people in my Discord server and also on The Level, um yeah which I've been doing for 10 years now, by the way. So I've also been in the decade club of podcasting people. 01:33:40.21 Greg Okay. 01:33:41.08 Jala Anyway, um like on that show too, like all the folks on there are just like trying to make the worst puns possible to just make me groan. They just want me to facepalm is what it is. 01:33:52.35 Still Loading Well, that what's funny is that the whole reason dad jokes exist is that reaction. 01:33:58.21 Still Loading People who make dad jokes and bad puns, I don't actually find them funny. I find them funny at how dumb they are. that That's where the humor comes in for me. It's not actually a good joke, and that's what makes it even funnier to me. 01:34:10.94 Jala Well, and the thing is one of the listeners from the level had mailed me one of those statues of Picard face palming. So I actually have a statue of Picard face palming. Thanks to listeners because I kept on like, there were so many, like, Oh, Y'all, what are you doing? 01:34:29.92 Jala you know So, anyway, um yeah, moving right along for a couple of these other episodes. 01:34:36.00 Jala So, a hitch in the works. That is the one where Link wants to get out of doing cleaning duty and then ends up with ya bro doof, you know? 01:34:42.28 Still Loading Doof. 01:34:47.21 Jala So but the funny thing is like doof's version of a moblin is just basically a stuffed moblin but like earlier in the show um It's kind of funny, but he makes a ah magical cleaning golem And then you know link's like great This is wonderful because if that works then I don't have to clean so make it work and then like the golem goes 01:34:55.43 Still Loading yeah 01:35:10.32 Jala haywire and then just makes a huge mess but meanwhile Moblins come in and start attacking and so like Link defeats them but there's no proof that he did anything because they all got zapped back to the Evil Jar so Zelda's like you just made a big mess and you need to clean it up I don't believe your story about Moblins and of course he's exaggerating the whole thing So um anyway, that's where like Doof comes in and has to try to make fake moblins. And then the princess actually gets captured by real moblins because she thought they were fake and and part of this whole plot that she overheard and this, that and the other. So and then at the very end of the episode, she gets scared by the fake moblin and then jumps into Link's arms. So. 01:35:57.66 Still Loading that I was always confused why Link even decided to ah get Doof to make him those fake Moblins because it's like his one robot failed miserably. 01:36:08.46 Jala Yeah, right. 01:36:09.68 Still Loading So it's like, I got it. I'm going to get the guy who couldn't make a robot that cleans to make an accurate Moblin. 01:36:15.90 Jala Yeah. Well, the thing is, it worked at the end of the episode. 01:36:21.50 Still Loading Sort of, and then it fell apart. 01:36:21.58 Jala It scared Zelda, but it scared Zelda and got the job done, didn't it? 01:36:26.86 Still Loading I don't know if that would have got him in out gotten him out of chores though, wouldn't it? 01:36:29.98 Jala Right. 01:36:30.42 Still Loading have Because that was the whole part of it. 01:36:32.38 Still Loading It would have scared Zelda and she'd be like, what the fuck, Link? And then she she would have given him more chores. 01:36:40.05 Still Loading Rightfully so. 01:36:44.21 Still Loading And what kind of what kind of hero has to do chores? like i I was always confused by the fact that, like because it happens in the 13th episode where there's a chance they're going to you know get the other part of the Triforce, the part two of two of the Triforce. And then he's like, I'm out of a job. i'm like And they really treat like the hero thing as like, this is your job. like You are the hero. This is what we pay you for. You stay in our castle with, that you sleep in the same room as the Triforce. You are our a hero on staff. 01:37:17.18 Still Loading was I just thought like that was just a weird idea because I don't know that there's a lot of weird like 01:37:24.53 Still Loading How can I put this? There's like, it seems like there's a whole like culture in the castle that doesn't get explored for good reason. Like it wouldn't be that interesting to explore in the show, but it's just weird. Some of the choices like link is a hero on, on staff. He has to clean the castle. Zelda. ah I was actually kind of mad. 01:37:41.48 Still Loading I felt like Zelda always directs people to clean the castle, even though. 01:37:44.84 Still Loading And, but she doesn't lift a finger, but she's directing the hero to another princess too. It's ah the whole dynamic was just odd to me. 01:37:50.88 Jala Yeah. Right. Well, and then the thing too is that she's like time to earn your keep because, you know, Ganon hasn't attacked in weeks. So she's like, okay, it's been two months. Ganon hasn't done anything and you are just taking up space in my damn castle and making a mess. So you need to clean your shit. So, um but apparently his room is dirty all the time and his clothes are dirty all the time. So like, even if it's just to clean up his own stuff, he does need to clean some, but you know, 01:38:20.66 Greg Yeah, they're trying to make Link earn his keep because they're like, they mentioned one of the ones that Link eats a lot too. So it's like, they're trying to keep them busy when there's like non-hero things to do, which I hear like, you know, never bothered that much. I thought I was okay with that. I'm like, okay. It's like, you know, like the hero business is kind of like war. It's like you have like five minutes of horror and then like, feeling like, you know, two weeks back of boredom. 01:38:51.79 Greg So it's like, you know, they're just trying to keep them busy and actually useful during those like, non there's not attacking times. So yeah, I was always like, okay, with that. 01:39:00.48 Jala i am I am so ready for the episode where Link is in the kitchen attempting to cook and has the apron and is failing very miserably at his job. like That's what I want. So give me that episode, you cowards. But ah anyway, yeah. 01:39:15.80 Jala And then ah the episode after that would be the fairies in the spring. That's the one that doesn't even have Ganon in it. um This is the one where the king is making the water park. And then there's a bunch of water critters that keep on attacking everybody. And so when Lincoln and Zelda investigate, they find out that the fairies have been making them because the um water reservoir they're using taps into the fairy spring. And so they're draining the fairy spring. And that's why the the fairies thought that somebody was like, they didn't know who the hell was doing it. 01:39:46.12 Jala And they were just like, we just gonna scare them and get them to go away. You know? 01:39:50.53 Still Loading Were either of you able to track the solution the king offered to how to fix the fairy spring? 01:39:55.98 Still Loading Because I sure as hell didn't. 01:39:58.00 Still Loading He made something like, oh, we just you know loop it back around and then it's filled and we're good. 01:40:03.08 Still Loading I'm like, what do you mean? 01:40:03.55 Jala It doesn't make any sense at all. And they did the hand waved it away and then they were like, yes. 01:40:08.21 Still Loading Okay. 01:40:11.53 Jala And then the fairies can also use the water park and then it's fine. But like, 01:40:15.46 Still Loading I want to make sure I wasn't stupid, so thank you. 01:40:16.99 Jala No, like it really was just like a super hand wavy like, Oh yeah. And like the explanation that was provided was not, it was a non-explanation. So, so yeah. But yeah, then there was the missing link episode, which was really cool. And then the Moblins are revolting. So yeah. um 01:40:35.52 Greg We actually forget like one episode, like episode two, Cold Spells. 01:40:39.59 Jala I didn't talk about that. I don't like that episode. 01:40:43.61 Greg It's fine. It has some you has like you know interesting ideas with it. 01:40:53.87 Jala We also didn't really talk about the first episode. We only talked about Ganon in the first episode. So like in The Ringer, there's like a magician's contest, but then Ganon, you know, uh, puts on an outfit and goes and pretends that he's an amateur magician and then summons a dragon and all sorts of stuff. And. Anyway, like he steals the Triforce and he's going back to the underworld when they have to have a whole battle and that's when Ganon does his shadowboxing. And then cold spells, Link is again trying to get out of chores and is pretending that he's sick. And then that is how um Ganon is like, 01:41:26.15 Jala I'm going to use this and in my plot, you know, and and then he does this Fantasia style hijinks thing where like he basically zap sprite to make sprites magic more powerful. 01:41:29.80 Greg Haha. 01:41:38.29 Jala And then when she's using magic to clean the castle, then it turns into like mops and buckets are attacking them. And then like Sprite, it gets into ah like a massive battle with a handkerchief or something is like You know, she gets like punched out. It's like so super boxing happening. I don't know. It's pretty wild. um 01:41:58.49 Still Loading That's the smoochy time episode. 01:41:59.64 Jala Yeah, that's the smoochie at the smoochie time episode. 01:42:02.40 Still Loading Smoochy time. 01:42:03.50 Jala Right. Right. So, so yeah, those are, those are all the different episodes in totally out of order, but talked about randomly. So, you know, there you go. So yeah, like, what did you like best about the show overall now that we've kind of chatted about all of it? 01:42:21.37 Still Loading Greg, I'll throw it over to you. I've been going first a whole bunch. What what was your favorite aspect? 01:42:26.06 Greg Oh, ah a gee. ah Well, beyond what I already said, you know, like, I think that, um you know, like, I like Jawa. I really loved Zelda 1 and Zelda 2. So it was like, you know, seeing a cartoon based upon this was, like, great for me because... um Anyway, and it was always something to look forward to because, like, you know, part of the nostalgia for me, you know, that was the fact that, you know, there was a cartoon based upon, like, ah they were very good at mine. But the way Mario's show worked in the fall of 1989 was that they would do 01:42:59.66 Greg They show Mario cartoons on Monday through Thursday, and Zelda cartoons air on Friday. So it's something to look forward to during the week, because oh because because you're Friday, and the schools are the weekend, that kind of stuff. so And they show teasers about the episode ah like all week as well, too. So definitely strong nostalgia for me with like connecting connecting to the show with like you know Friday, weekend time, that kind of stuff. Something to look forward to. um and Yeah, just like ah the writers, I thought, did a pretty good idea a pretty good job overall with numerous problems, yes. But, you know, given them what little material they had to work with, you know, and whatnot, because to to to to work with, I thought the writers did it did they didn't yeah's like an overall overall okay job. 01:43:48.81 Greg with a cartoon, you know, it's not fantastic, but I definitely, you know, you know, and I'll be the first to admit that nostalgia does kind of carve my viewpoint of this a little bit, but I think that, you know, it's definitely, it's definitely kind of but like a very, you know, like, you know, comically whimsical, like, you know, great music, good action scene, and you know, like, ah typical quality typical video game quality episode or show, because like you know video game card video video game cartoons have limitations on not being very good. like most of Over the years, unfortunately, just like most of the video game-based movies are also like but like not good. and i think Overall, I thought Zelda was better than Mario. 01:44:28.25 Greg in many ways. I didn't even say overall Zelda was probably better than Captain N in many regards. And there's and there's numerous numbers other and there's numerous other cartoon there's numerous other video game-based cartoons that I would say, yeah, it's worse than this one. So it's still, I guess, it's not much it's not much to say because ire the bar is so low, but I just think that Zelda still i think is ranks up there for me as a one of the better video game part two. It's a shame that only the last 13 episodes, because because apparently the car the cartoon was popular and they wanted to, you know, you and the West Band support to continue it, but but the powers would be killed to kill the Mario show. 01:45:11.20 Greg that killed Zelda as well too because the two of them were attached and they didn't feel the property was strong enough to stand by its own. So but have been it would have been interesting to say, as you guys mentioned, ah what would what might to happen in in later season you know had the show really had a chance to find its wings and really be able to take off and establish the groundwork ah they they they to establish the groundwork, because the overall quality of the episodes I thought was like pretty consistent. i mean like you know yeah you know may not um you know There may not have been any amazing and amazing episodes, but there really weren't any like really really, really, really bad episodes either. 01:45:48.96 Greg The overall quality was like pretty out of take assistance, I thought. 01:45:51.72 Greg it's like so I think it would have been interesting to see what they might have done, have had had they had had they a chance to have had have the chance to continue it. and um It's fascinating to think about what is the art a cartoon made nowadays might actually look like. and And that would be, unfortunately, that hasn't happened because Nintendo has gotten a lot more strict on their properties in the years since then. Back in the 80s, Nintendo was lacing their stuff out left and right, like anybody, basically, who actually had a checkbook and a pulse. There was no quality control at all like in their stuff. So um nowadays, Nintendo is very strict about that kind of stuff. So of course, that hasn't happened. 01:46:25.90 Greg Um, yeah, so I mean, we are getting, we are getting a live action zone, a movie ah in the in the years to come, which which I'm very curious about. But it's like, it's like, I kind of wonder maybe if like, one of the reasons the cartoon has not been done is because people people remember this cartoon and think, you know, and like, Oh, you know, if that was a terrible cartoon. Let's not do that again. But we're just like, Yes, the cartoon is bad, but it's is certainly problematic in many ways, but um it wasn't the worst cartoon of the 80s. It was certainly not the worst video game card that that yeah i but the epibud is cartoon by a mile. 01:47:04.01 Greg um I think people honestly, honestly, I think folks are a little bit too harsh on on this cartoon like overall, I think there's I think there's other things and that these are there are cartoons that people have a lot more storage for that probably doesn't deserve it. I won't, I won't mention anything here to trigger any flame wars, but um just that Yeah, so Overall I overall I'm happy. I'm happy to watch the cartoon with the cartoon was new you know like I said I do watch every now and then like the flavor several years um It holds up overall Overall I think I think in the most part as long as you have nostalgia. I think it's interesting you know that was mentioned that you know ah there was there was there was There was a bit talk about this, but I you know i'd be I'd be curious to see how yeah yeah I'd be curious to see how I was six seven year old 01:47:49.05 Greg Nowadays, who is the older fan might approach a cartoon like the first time, but I think overall in nostalgia, in nostalgia it's a tricky weapon, it's definitely a devilish sword, but the nostalgia definitely does make it a very memorable cartoon in my head, in like many ways, because like, you know, as people are saying, you know, great action scenes, great music, games deals a show, definitely. So, you know, Friday afternoons, school's over, You know, we definitely, definitely positive having memories that go around. 01:48:23.60 Jala right and for me as much as like yes the sound design and all the other stuff that we've been uh talking sugar about are are really good things while you're talking i was thinking about it and I'm like you know it's really wild to say this but i feel like the Zelda cartoon was really rather faithful to the source material, because there wasn't a lot of story in the original Zelda and Zelda 2. I mean, they had nothing to go on. 01:48:52.68 Jala But they still somehow made it feel like you were watching the actual video game you know in some ways. you know like They did their own thing. They expanded on it. They did whatever. But they also made a living, breathing world that is episodic. But like you can imagine so many other adventures happening in this world. 01:49:10.29 Jala you know, ah because they gave such a strong presence to all of the primary three characters. And they didn't muddy the waters with having a lot of other characters and extending the cast too much. You know what I mean? And in 01:49:22.93 Still Loading I was just a captain and anyone. 01:49:26.64 Jala Yeah, exactly. 01:49:28.03 Jala and that I was exactly picturing Captain N when I was saying that as well. But, some you know, and like I liked the Mario show, but it didn't feel as strong to me because it didn't like as much as they they did a lot of some of the some of the same things that they were doing with the Zelda cartoon, the Mario cartoon, it's fun. But like it I don't feel like I didn't feel the same kind of I don't know, um epic quality that I felt when I was watching Zelda because the music was so cool and Ganon was so scary and there were like these these things like that that just um really made it a highlight for me. So even though like I yeah i've recognized at the time, this is 01:50:10.65 Jala a lot of like artistic license being had on the show ah versus the game, you know and this is really not, like this is still not my head cannon link, but um you know like i'll I'll get on board for this and enjoy the ride with whatever these folks are writing for these characters um because like they did a good job with what they had. and You know, like it it would have been fun to see more of it, but, uh, we'll get to like the, the wish list in in a little bit here. Josh, how about you? What do you think? What was the best thing about this show? 01:50:43.78 Still Loading Oh man, I mean the best thing about this show is honestly just its presentation and sounds and everything like I I can't say the characters were all that great with the exception of Ganon. The storylines, I don't think were bad. Their service, they're on they're at least on par with the other video game cartoons of the era. um And it's funny, Greg, you mentioned all about how you think this is a lot better than people give it credit for. I have no nostalgia for any of the video game cartoons with the exception of the Sonic Sat-Am one. 01:51:16.34 Still Loading um And I haven't even re-watched that one in quite some time, so I don't know how it holds up. But like watching between watching Captain N, the Super Mario Super Show, this, um also a little bit of Super Mario World and whatnot. it's I wouldn't put the Zelda cartoon as the worst, but I don't I actually prefer the Super Mario Super Show to this only for the fact that I felt like Super Show is like there is so much I'm like. 01:51:48.59 Still Loading i don't i'm I'm just going to say this. I think a lot of people are good it are going to disagree with it and that's fine. I feel like that show has so much more creativity. like the the live Between the live action segments and then the like the the cartoons aren't that creative. They're just essentially like, let's take some type of classic story and then throw a lot of coop puns in it and like a lot of bizarre Italian stereotypes, like not real stereotypes um and all that other stuff. 01:52:17.12 Still Loading But I find it so endlessly amusing for how baffling it is. like the the The episode I'm recording tomorrow is on episode three that has Sergeant Slaughter, the wrestler in ah for the live action segment. 01:52:31.25 Still Loading and they're fixing us Mario and Luigi are fixing a steam-o-matic machine that he decides to go into to make sure that it works for Sergeant Slaughter and he gets trapped in there. That's like the entirety of the opening live action segment. and then it's a Western for the cartoon segment. and just the wholet the set like Everything about that show I feel has so much more creativity versus Zelda. Well, it does have a lot of creativity. like All the shows I actually think are surprisingly creative considering that there's an alarming ah amount of... like i can't I genuinely can't tell how much the writers or the producers cared about the source material. you know like so part Some episodes, I'm like, well, that no one gave a shit about this one. 01:53:14.63 Still Loading And there's other ones where I think are like really interesting and really cool. um So to to bring it back to Zelda, what are my favorite parts of it and like how much of nostalgia plays into it for me? Well, there's no nostalgia. I didn't watch this as a kid. I'm i'm a little bit younger than both of you. And i this would have been i would have been probably Like if it was in reruns, I probably would have been like three or four in reruns. So I probably would have just missed it. um 01:53:45.57 Still Loading and Hell, even the Sonic cartoon, I only got to watch because it was on VHS. it wasn't even like on ah like I didn't even watch it when it was on TV. So I have no nostalgia for either of these. So going into Zelda Cold was a very interesting experience. 01:53:59.22 Jala oh yeah 01:53:59.90 Still Loading um like it just and I can tell you, at least from my three-year-old, my daughter, she prefers the Mario cartoon to the Zelda one. 01:54:07.28 Still Loading She does not enjoy the Zelda. I don't think she's a great lit litmus test for all kids because she, I tried showing her tiny tunes and the cartoon violence of it. She did not enjoy it all. So I think Zelda, since it has even any semblance of violence, especially compared to Mario, I don't think she enjoys it because of that. But in general, I just, I don't know, the tone of the show is so bizarre to me. 01:54:29.54 Still Loading It's like semi serious, but semi comedic. Um, Ganon is so goofy of a character, but I love him for that. So I don't know, I'm going all over the place. I would say what I like best about the show, it's the presentation. like ah Just to bring back to what I said at the beginning, the presentation. 01:54:45.89 Still Loading Nostalgia doesn't really affect too much of this for me ah because I have none. um I can't stand the characters, but I agree with you, Jala, how like if they were just generic, like what they were in Captain N, they would't this would not be memorable. Captain N is memorable because it's so many video game cartoons put or video games put together in one cartoon, not because the cartoon is good, but just because of like the sheer magnitude of video games in it. And Zelda, since it's just this one property, you needed some type of hook. 01:55:17.25 Still Loading I do think it would have been kind of interesting to make Link a silent protagonist just to see, like, could you play into a joke where like, maybe Zelda will like, Link, speak up if you want to, if you want to go, if you don't want, you know, like Baloney for dinner or something, like some type of joke, and then he's just quiet. 01:55:34.52 Still Loading You know what I mean? Like, I totally think you could make some fun jokes about that, about Ling being a silent protagonist, but I don't think media back then would have been self-aware enough to do something. 01:55:43.70 Jala No, no, absolutely not. And, um, for what it's worth, I watched the entire super Mario brothers, super show. I enjoyed the Mario to the extent, but like, I just didn't care about any of the characters in the Mario show. Like it was no, but right. 01:55:57.77 Still Loading Oh no there's no, there's no characters in it. 01:56:00.09 Still Loading I love that show based off of just pure like fever dream shenanigans, not because there's any characters. 01:56:06.87 Jala I just wanted to say that the live action parts, I could not stand as a child. I hated them so much. I was so upset and like, I know the people who were doing it ah were very much into the thing that they were doing and they were doing such a good job and it's like, it's nothing about the actors, right? It's just It was not my jam, really not my thing. I was not interested whatsoever. I didn't know who any of the people that were on like for the little guest spots that came in through the door, half of the people that came in, I didn't know who the hell they were because I was seven. 01:56:43.57 Jala I don't know. Like, you know, so like I didn't get it. 01:56:46.95 Jala I didn't care. And I didn't like the live action parts at all. That that was like the least favorite thing for me on the show. So what were you going to say, Greg? 01:56:57.33 Greg Oh, actually, actually, I was going to say, like, you know, I actually I actually do agree with what you said, Josh, like about the fight ah show. um you um You know, I mean, that was very good. I just I might as my mind separate the live action parts from the cartoon. 01:57:13.93 Jala Yeah. 01:57:14.28 Greg In my head, they're two separate things. 01:57:15.54 Jala Yeah, they are to me too. Yeah. 01:57:19.41 Greg So the cartoon, and the Mario cartoon, I didn't like as much as Zelda. I do think the Mario cartoon had some different, um you know you know I think overall the Mario cartoon had some very good ideas. um there you know i you know i think it was you know i think overall that I think overall that cartoon was more creative than Zelda was, but I think the overall quality of it for me wasn't as good as Zelda. ah The live-action parts, however, I loved. Maybe it's because of the age difference between like Jaw and myself. yeah I was older, and therefore I knew most of the guest stars. The guest stars were awesome. If I like look at a list, they get to make some heavy hitters on that thing. I mean, it's like it's very popular people of the day. We're going to come on to this 01:58:03.63 Greg kids show and just like goof around it go goof around that could be silly you for like a a short short bit um it's surprisingly good and and you know i think you know you know i think overall the live action show holds up very well even today because it's to today because today because it's a snapshot of the late 80s as far as the culture and the people involved in it and that kind of stuff so it was like so it's like it's very cool to me in that sense um but yeah so um you know i actually i actually do agree with you the most part like what you're saying about that 01:58:35.97 Jala Yay. So if you could change one thing about the show, what would it be and why? 01:58:44.03 Still Loading Oh, I mean, other than the obvious thing with the characters, I'm going to, you know, we've, ah we've talked about that ad nauseam over the course of the episodes. I'm not going to repeat that. I would honestly, my biggest like pet peeve of the whole show, and it's like semi joking, but semi serious. Put the Triforce of wisdom somewhere sensical. 01:59:06.05 Greg hahaha 01:59:06.15 Still Loading Like, don't put it in the middle of a goddamn room and be like, why is Ganon have such an easy time fucking getting to it? I don't know how he keeps doing it. You have one dude guarding it the entire time. And he's out of the castle most of the time because he has to either clean or save your ass. So for all intents and purposes, no one's guarding that thing. And if it's supposed to be so important, Put it in a vault. 01:59:34.15 Jala Thank you. 01:59:34.84 Still Loading Put the vault in Link's room. That's fine too, but have some type of thing where you can't just fucking walk up to it and be like, hello, Mr. Triforce and take it. 01:59:45.85 Jala Absolutely. That is a very good one. Greg, how about you? 01:59:50.34 Greg um While I agree with you, I'm going to go in a different direction. um i ah you know like The biggest thing I would have changed, I would you know i would have used Zelda II to fight one of the cartoon, because Zelda II is hardly ever used. They used two ideas from the ship the era if that' like like the game, and that's it. And Zelda II It was such a rich game also with ah the flag but ah like a like with like enemies and locations and ideas and and ideas whatnot. i mean yeah yeah that yeah There are enemies copied over like in Zelda in the game, but there's also new enemies as well. but you know There's somebody you so many cool things that could have like brought over to the cartoon from that. 02:00:28.90 Greg Like some of the N in these, well, the idea of like about a palace, a palace with a guardian, a gem, find a gem that you have to get. Like, you know, like walking on water, for example, like using a rack, maybe to get, like using a rack to get somewhere. Magic, like using magic. Because magic is present in the Zelda cartoon. Zelda uses it like like a little bit. But it's like you know like, use more magic in the cartoon. like you know just like it's like you know Nintendo ditendo gave them the the blueprint and and the permission to use to use both games. it's like you know but but they use But for some reason, for some reason maybe some reason they the the the writers focused upon the version of Zelda games, like 90% of the material. It's like, like but why are you doing this other game? 02:01:17.15 Greg like um um You know that's never made sense to me. 02:01:22.16 Jala Right. Right. Good point. So for me, I'm going to say what I would have loved to see in the show would have been like more of what it felt like when you were in a dungeon in the Zelda game, you know, where like you have puzzles you have to solve. You have stuff that you're fighting off simultaneously while you're trying to get through the thing. you know like and and then something related to like the low health bar you know like is that hearing the bleeping noise when you're on low health was really so such a tense thing right and like they could up the drama they want drama put the fucking health sound in there. 02:01:53.19 Greg Oh God, no. 02:02:02.26 Jala Oh my God, like, you know, and then, and then do like some, some serious dungeon stuff, you know, like show some of that, that would have been really neat. 02:02:10.59 Jala And, you know, like that would go in with how creepy Ganon is and some of the other scary stuff. And like, they don't have to make it a whole separate dungeon. They can put it in the underworld, but like, you know, have a longer segment where there's something like that. And yeah, again, like the health noise, you want to make some drama. It's kind of like if they wanted to put drama in a Sonic cartoon for any reason, all they have to do is put the Sonic drowning music. That's it. it's all i have to do instant drama so so yeah picture preference do you want a continuation of this a gritty reboot or something completely different if you had your druthers if you had a new zelda thing what would you do 02:02:34.50 Still Loading Yep. Drama. 02:02:51.51 Still Loading Well, I mean, I guess for me, I'd go straight comedy. I know no Zelda fan wants that. 02:02:58.85 Still Loading Most Zelda fans want like a gritty type of thing. Like, you know, remember when Wind Waker came out, everyone was pissed. It wasn't like this realistic, gritty Zelda. It was much more comedic. I'm all I'm a fan of that type of thing. Like Zelda. like in general, ah especially since like you know Link's Awakening and Link to the Past has a really like silly sense of humor that I don't think it's talked about enough. um Like they're weird games. And I would really like to see like a show, like I think a movie wouldn't do well with that. I think you almost have to do like a gritty Zelda movie, but a show you could totally lay into it. Like do like have keep getting and to be like that Dr. Evil type of character, but then have Zelda be like, or Link, excuse me, be like your Austin Powers character. It doesn't have to be British, but like, you know, 02:03:46.88 Still Loading whatever, like you i would I would love to see some type of comedic, can like either continuation or revamp of this, because the moments that I enjoyed the most are the, are is the humor, the the the attempts at some of the most absurd jokes, you know you know, the I am upset or back to the Evil Jar, or just really goofy, like even even some of the stuff like the the whole moment of the king trying to get Link to, yeah, 02:04:13.80 Still Loading trying to help Link woo his daughter. like That's so goofy and over the top, but I totally think it's worth it. And then imagine all of that with Link being a silent protagonist, not saying a damn word the whole time. like I think you could do some fun ideas with that and I kind of love I'd kind of love that because like as much as a gritty one would be cool to see. I think I'm like, I don't know where I'm at right now in this in my state in ah where I'm at in my life. I'm tired of everything being so serious. Like I have enough like stressful, heavy thoughts due to just life. 02:04:48.72 Still Loading I don't need a show adding to that. 02:04:50.94 Still Loading So I'm all for comedies right now. 02:04:52.88 Jala Right. I understand that completely. So that's a fun idea. I really like that. How about you, Greg? 02:04:59.34 Greg Um, I'm actually going to go in the opposite direction. Um, like, you know, I, uh, so I understand what you're saying, like about, like, you know, like, uh, like, you know, the gritty stuff, like whatnot, but I'm, but I'm also like, you know, you know, you know, being a big fan of the show, I'd love to see, you know, I'd love to see like a Zelda, like, is it basically, basically the Castlevania Netflix show, but Zelda instead, like, you know, like, because to be sure that cartoon is so good. It's so well done. well they on you You know, like the characters, the music and the settings and the ideas. And now we have like now we have a very like now we have a very rich, established Zelda universe that they draw upon. you know I love to see that. she like she basically Just like copy, paste, Castlevania formula into Zelda, boom, done. And like you know i and i so I get the fact about wanting comedy, but I'm also like, 02:05:47.01 Greg i have I have other things i have a things in my life that I can turn to for comedy that I want to, but you know I think that Zelda, Zelda and me has always been like more serious in action and fancy-based and like you know like and um ah whatnot. and And why I like the comedy is the comedy and the Zelda cartoon, it always felt a bit out of place to me. So it's like know like, I would just basically like to see the kind of like you know the Castlevania treatment but per se, per se, like the Zelda show. 02:06:17.91 Jala That's a fun one too. So for mine, I'm going to actually say something a little bit different now. Like this, this cannot ever happen because Len Carlson passed away in 2006. Unfortunately that's Ganon's voice actor. I would do the Ganon show. I want to see just Ganon doing Ganon hijinks from Ganon's perspective. Make him the main character. Make him the main character and let him keep on doing his whatever bullshit he's doing. And like it could just be 100% in the underworld. We don't even have to involve Link and Zelda. 02:06:49.49 Jala All I want is just Ganon and his Evil Jar and his hijinks. 02:06:53.85 Jala And that I am so here for that. So that's what I want. 02:06:57.91 Greg Yeah, I thought so. 02:06:58.51 Jala yeah i would I would absolutely watch that, especially, you know, if, if, if Lynn Carlson were still alive and he were doing the voice, I would be so here for that. So that's what I want. I want the Ganon show. 02:07:08.03 Greg Yeah, I'm not sure we've seen it, but it kind of reminds me a little bit. It kind of reminds me a little bit with that over idea, just focusing upon Ged and his adventures, it's a little bit like the recent Star Wars show, like Baba, oh, towards the guy's name, like Baba, yes. 02:07:31.27 Jala Boba Fett? Yeah. 02:07:33.87 Greg Or it's like just focusing on him and his hijinks. And that works better. You know, I have my doubts going in, but i formula me that that formula actually works that that actually works like pretty well. So it's like, yeah, get like yeah yeah I definitely could say that this boy would like to get him. You know, that'd work. 02:07:51.17 Jala Yeah, that would be a lot of fun in my opinion. So yeah. Yeah. Like that's where we'll end this show and wrap it all up. Um, do we have any parting thoughts? We already know that Josh is like, no, the Mario show's better. Okay, cool. 02:08:04.62 Still Loading and i mean i wasn't I wouldn't have ended it that way. 02:08:05.27 Jala Uh, okay. Then what's your ending thought? What's your ending thought? 02:08:10.60 Still Loading It's better than Captain N. 02:08:13.35 Jala There you go. Greg, your ending thought. 02:08:16.73 Greg Um, yeah, just like, you know, um, uh, uh, yeah, like definitely, definitely cartoon. I think that is true. Um, definitely cartoon that deserves like more see, um, more episodes, uh, more episodes than it got, because that'd be, it's like the whole thing, the whole thing, the whole thing was over. The whole thing was over. It felt like the flick of the eye, but every month it's like, it's done. And I'm like, why are you trying to repeat this? Like, this is like already, you know, 13 hour kid. I didn't understand that, but, um yeah, I just like, I promise the cartoon, their prior cartoon, they got killed too soon, unfortunately. 02:08:49.72 Jala Gone too soon, gone too soon. oh So ah mine, mine is going to be that. I am ready for all of us to go back to the Evil Jar. 02:09:04.89 Jala All right, so where in the world can people find you if you are to be found anywhere, Josh? 02:09:12.02 Still Loading ah Well, if you want to find my Evil Jar, you can find the Still Loading podcast on all everywhere good podcasts are given away for free. Apple podcast, Google podcast, Spotify. Well, Google podcast is dead. It's YouTube music now, Spotify and other places and such um ads still loading pod on pretty much all social media, Twitter, Instagram threads, blue sky. Twitch at saluting pod on all those locations at saluting podcast on YouTube if you want to see Well, it's a video version, but it's pretty much there's no video It's just audio with the thumbnail because i I don't have time for video editing um So yeah, that's where you can find the show 02:09:50.49 Still Loading If you want to check out any or to shout out some episodes you may want to check out, you can check out the episodes with Jala that she had did with me and Dexter on Captain Enoch about sometime last year. I want to say it was like summer or fall last year, or something like that. 02:10:05.10 Jala time means nothing 02:10:05.62 Still Loading ah maybe Yeah, it was it was sometime last year. 02:10:09.95 Still Loading And I do intend at some point getting Jala back on the show to talk Dishonored once I get my shit together and actually replay the first Dishonored game. So ah you can check out those episodes. And also just because it's coming, another one's coming up later this year, and it's one of my ongoing things I'm really proud of. I do this thing called the Final Fantasy Fantasy Draft. 02:10:29.86 Jala Time means nothing. 02:10:32.08 Still Loading It's what happens when Final Fantasy and Fantasy Sports mix together and you don't need to know anything about Fantasy Sports to enjoy it. It's just this big Final Fantasy Love Fest. I do it annually now. there's The third one will be happening in August this year. I have all the guests lined up. I have yet to record it. I'm just hoping that everything goes according to plan. But yeah, that will be coming out later this year. And there's other ones from last year, ah last year and the year before. So I'm ah I'm really proud of those and I always recommend them to anyone who's a Final Fantasy fan. 02:11:03.73 Jala Yay. And Greg, how about you? Where might you be found on the internet? 02:11:08.55 Greg Well, well, as I said in the beginning, the main thing I do is Superdeanist podcast that we host, Joe. We can also be found on the usual unusual unusual podcasting sites like Spotify, Apple, et cetera. We are hosted by the Geek A Network, which is so which is a great collection of like-minded retro themed podcast shows on both gaming, non-gaming stuff. The the URL The URL is too long to give here. Just do a Google search, share a Google search for super needs podcast. I can find it that way as well also. We're also on Facebook. Eddie can also send me email directly to the SNES podcast at yahoo.com. 02:11:49.30 Greg um Jala did join us for one every like one episode a few years ago. It's like we talked about Chrono Trigger together, which was ah which was a blast. 02:11:55.45 Jala Yep. 02:11:57.04 Greg And still is the ins still it still is the most popular episode in terms of downloads. So ah thank you very much again for that. So, yep, that's me. 02:12:09.59 Jala Awesome. And of course, you can find me anywhere that I might be found at Jalachan, including Jalachan dot place where you got this episode and all of the others. So until next time, take care of yourself and go back to your Evil Jar. [Show Outro] Jala Jala-chan's Place is brought to you by Fireheart Media. If you enjoyed the show, please share this and all of our episodes with friends and remember to rate and review us on your podcast platform of choice. Word of mouth is the only way we grow. If you like, you can also kick us a few bucks to help us keep the lights on at ko-fi.com/fireheartmedia. Check out our other show Monster Dear Monster: A Monster Exploration Podcast at monsterdear.monster. Music composed and produced by Jake Lionhart with additional guitars and mixed by Spencer Smith. Follow along with my adventures via jalachan.place or find me at jalachan in places on the net! [Outro Music]