Hello, everybody, and welcome to the Flaming Hydra Roundtable Podcast. I am here with Leila Brilson, Joe McCloud, and me, Maria Boussios, and we are going to talk about Alien Earth, which I, fair warning, enjoyed hugely. Leila (08:35.836) But yeah, let's do it. I'm excited to talk about this. Maria (09:02.553) And I think I may be in the minority here. We will find out. All right, here's Lila Brillson. Tell us, Lila, what do you think? Leila (09:11.869) Hey, Maria. I'm coming here today to say the first time I was on this podcast, I was really angry. I was really let down. felt like there was just not let down, but I felt like the mythology was like, you know, there was so many things being thrown at the wall. Alien has such a strong mythology and so many interesting things that it is unpacking. And I'm coming here today to say that. All right. It's getting good. It's getting good. I think the first episode was weak. And I think the ideas are strong. And I'm really excited that this cast of synths, these young synths, all have something to do. They're not fully fleshed out. I don't really know what's going on with all of them. But you've got, know, Nibs is clearly going to be having a mental break soon. you have Slightly who, and physical, yeah, and then you have Slightly who is, you know, a really, you know, obviously being held hostage by his brain robot. And you just have this like really, like each of these characters are becoming a bit more fleshed out. Now, I will not take back the fact that I think this is an incredibly poorly written show, and we can talk about that a little bit more. Maria (10:14.032) and physical. Maria (10:23.024) Let's go. Leila (10:41.968) but there were some pretty good sci-fi spooky spooky-ooky moments that I really enjoyed. Maria (10:50.479) Okay, Joe, let's get your like quick overview and then we will wrangle. Flaming Hydra (10:57.644) Yeah, I thought it was like the least exciting of all the episodes so far. I'm completely in. I was in from the first episode. This is something we were discussing before we started recording. I'm not worried about the staginess of the dialogue or whatever, the comic book way that they kind of speak. But I did wish they could have handled that whole moment, which was really an an incredibly key moment when all the synths were like hanging out and playing Jenga and just kicking it and human brother was there and then slightly got angry. But this whole moment where they're all huddled around human brother and he's explaining what the five is, I just thought as far as dialogue is concerned, it wasn't that great. But also the scene with The security guy with Maro and Slightly was absolutely terrifying where he was just basically, I'm gonna kill your whole fucking family. That was wild. Maria (12:00.251) He shouldn't have told him his name! You knew he shouldn't have told him his name! Leila (12:03.26) It's interesting because he made a point of it. Like he made a point of like, I, was like, he made a point of saying his full name and the actor who was playing Morrow like winked at the camera a little bit in a way that I was like, this is telling me to pay attention. in a way that when he said his full name, I was like, no, yeah, you said. I do have to say it is very affecting to when a young actor realizes that moment of reality, of the reality of everything he's done and everything that he's given up and him doing like, like, mummy, like really broke my heart. Maria (12:54.119) I think he's so good, that kid. Leila (12:56.964) Yeah, I think he was going to either... Everyone was just getting a little disturbing, I felt. Maria (13:01.989) Okay, here's what I think about it. I'll give you my overview. We could wrangle some more. Okay, my overview is they did a beautiful job of showing the horror of growing up in this. Like these kids are like 12 or 10, whatever the tweens. And now they're realizing that the shit that they have signed up for is so fucked up that it's incomprehensibly bad for them. But like they're in it and there's nothing they can do and they're stuck. And I think this is like the human condition. Leila (13:12.112) Mmmmm. Maria (13:31.567) And it's like, at the same time that the dialogue is really hokey and I almost sort of, I see it almost like a, I don't know, like a, like a Buster Keaton kind of nonsensical, extreme silliness of the dialogue and everything. And like, I mean, I still can't get over that they call this guy boy cavalier, like that irritates the living shit out of me. It's just like, I, how could you, you know, but yet like now I'm kind of into it because it's absurd. Go on, Joe. Flaming Hydra (14:00.559) do know what the name of his- do know the name of his creepy assistant? do you know boycaveler's creepy assistant? what the name is? Adam. A-T-O-M. Maria (14:00.561) Joe is raising his pants. Maria (14:05.978) Adam! Adam. Adam is a cyborg. Excuse me. He caught that ball in a cyborgian manner. Right? Leila (14:15.066) Yeah. Leila (14:18.95) There, I thought they were all cyborgs except for the couple. I thought the couple was also a cyborg, but then I saw them talking about children, but they said something along the lines of in the first episode, like, well, you like you can't have children because, and they trailed off, and I thought it was because perhaps they were. Maria (14:29.863) No. Leila (14:48.098) cyborgs or one of them is a cyborg, I don't know. But it would be interesting if his three top lieutenants, know, Adam, and then you have Kirsch, and then you have Dame Sylvia, right? Like, and I think it would not make sense to me if only one of them was human. Who knows? Maria (15:01.169) Damn. Damn. Maria (15:13.125) Hmm. Well said. That's like so- that also I didn't know they were married. That was weird. Suddenly like I'm your husband. Did you know that? Leila (15:21.629) In the first episode, in the first episode, they hint at like that they have been trying to find trying to have a baby, the two of them. I can't remember what the exact line is, but it's something along the lines of like, this is kind of like our own baby since we can't have one. And that's where I thought. Maria (15:40.783) Okay. Leila (15:45.206) That's where I thought that maybe they was hinting that she's a cyborg and he's a human or you know something like you know and that's not anything we've ever seen in the alien world though it is quite ripe to have that kind of built-in human cyborg love for one another. I guess in Romulus there's that but it's only it's very familial. Maria (16:03.207) Hey, Blue. Maria (16:08.613) And now they've changed it, like at the end of this thing, the sort of end of this was they're casting her as a queen, I guess, kind of Wendy, right? She can communicate with them. She's connected with them. She's almost like one of them. And then Nibs, I guess, is pregnant. Leila (16:29.264) I mean, we are not, here's the thing, and I'm so sad, I'm so sad that Josie's not here because I think Josie would have a lot to say about this, but alien has always been interested in pregnancy and the truth is, is that the pregnancy that you see in alien is essentially an immaculate conception, right? Like there is penetration, but it's not sexual. And anyone can get pregnant. Maria (16:56.775) and Leila (16:58.23) at any time in this universe, which is like what's terrifying. So is she pregnant? I think that positioning, given what we know in the world, was actually an interesting positioning because suddenly we were like, did something happen that we, because we don't know anything about this eye creature. Like, you know, like how it procreates. And the... The idea that somebody has a hidden creature just eating within them in this universe is very plausible. So is she pregnant as a synth? I think that, yeah, I I ultimately think no, but you are meant to think, I mean, pregnant with what? Do think she went in and impregnated herself with like a? Maria (17:39.932) Yes. Maria (17:46.95) No? Maria (17:53.797) We just saw a goat with bee eyeball impregnated. Leila (17:58.392) We gotta talk about that. Maria (17:59.865) Okay, go on Joe. Joe was like literally raising his hand instead of using the hand raising thing on the podcast. Flaming Hydra (18:06.51) Yeah, I'm better using my hand than I am using the mouse to use. The method of the way that the eyeball creature propagates, is still, the jury is still out because, know, yeah, there's that incredible, horrific moment where the U is eyeball swapped. And that thing takes over. When it stood up, didn't understand what was going on when it stood up, but it just stood up to just shake the old eyeball out of its skull. But I thought, it's going to start talking. And it's like, I'm taking over. But we don't really, we don't for 100 % know how the eyeball creature spreads itself because we know that nibs. Maria (18:37.68) Whoa! Maria (18:43.319) my god. Maria (18:58.351) The new is going to go into some. Flaming Hydra (19:01.238) Nibs had the tendrils in her face and stuff like that. Anything can happen. We don't know for sure. Maria (19:03.815) Yeah! Leila (19:06.448) There is something, there is something, and I wasn't here last week, but there is something to me that I think is really interesting coming along here. This whole narrative that we are setting up within alien earth, I think is really about a relationship between the host and the parasite. And like that, you know, Maria (19:06.491) That was pretty bad of it. Maria (19:33.543) You Leila (19:36.283) these kids are essentially within a host body, right? How is that any different than an eyeball within the host of a sheep? And then you can even extend that a bit more to the fact that all of these people live within these corporations that play kind of host to them and kind of treat them as these inconveniences. Maria (20:01.681) Thank Leila (20:02.746) And I might be giving Noah Hawley a little too much credit here, but I think that if that is, the concept of consciousness transfer and the concept of pregnancy are very similar. Maria (20:20.071) Oh, totally. Well, I mean, this is the thing that I responded to this one more in a way, I guess it's like more into my own concerns or whatever about like the mind body problem or the soul or whatnot, you know, I mean, I've been married for like, I don't know, Oliver and I've been together for like 30 years. And it's sort of like you've been when you've been with somebody the entire time of their, like growing into middle age and sort of old age almost, like you really start, I mean, I, guess I should say, start to believe in the existence of a soul because you've known this person the whole time and they've, you know, and you love them the whole time. And that's kind of what I saw between sort of Hermit and Wendy when they're trying to reach each other across all these weird circumstances that they've been in. You know, she's died, he went to her funeral. She's in her body that he doesn't recognize, you know, and yet he gives her this test. Yeah, you weren't here Lila last time, but like, there was this moment, I'm sure you saw in the other episode where he's like really afraid and he's testing her and like, what did you say? What did, you know, when you were five, what all the things that we lived through together, are you actually the participant in those scenes with me? Did you live through this with me? And. I think that that's a lot what this thing is going to be about. You know, the container doesn't really matter that much, but the soul is a real thing. Leila (21:56.412) But then we have Atom noting that the soul is 100 % property of the Prodigy Corporation and that your sister, if you can even call her that, is actually a part of a very expensive IP acquisition. Maria (22:00.4) Yeah! Maria (22:23.225) Oregon is moving from the end. Leila (22:25.944) Yeah, and I think that that was, you know, he even says something like, the unit you call your sister. You know? Maria (22:37.127) Dude, it's so real. I mean, isn't that the conflict that we are all in right now? Like the actual human beings, like with souls who are like flesh and blood people saying, fuck you, we're not AI, we're real. Leila (22:52.06) I mean, I do think there is something in that, but like what happens, and Josie once again brought up like the ship of Theseus, like what happens when you begin to like, you know, the smarter take is like what happens when you begin to use little bits of AI to fill in gaps here and there, which I think like. Candidly, we all do, right? Like I will like literally use, you know, the predictive text, you know, to help me fill out a word. And like, as we start doing these things and begin to, you know, begin to rely on our... this trans human future, what is, what's being replaced, right? Like how much, sure, she may have the same memories and may have the same like chemical alterations as Mercy, I think, Mercy, right? But ultimately, Wendy is a very, is a different being. Yes, it is. Maria (23:53.125) lessons. Maria (24:02.447) Yes and no. I I feel like Wendy's gonna have to choose like, I Wendy or am I Marcy at some point? But I mean, she was Marcy enough that she chased him down to start with. And this non-trivial. Leila (24:14.512) But is Wendy so much that she can speak to these things? Maria (24:18.969) Yeah, it's really interesting. mean, like for us, like to me, there's a bright line there. And I talk about this with people all the time, because I've got a lot of friends who are in the tech world. It's sort of like, it's very obvious, you you use a predictive tech so you could decide not to, you know, it's up to you. And they're the thing that I think many of us get really furious about is when we're not allowed to decide. I'm sorry, Joe, go ahead. Leila (24:34.608) Mm-hmm. Flaming Hydra (24:45.452) No, I'm just gonna chime in and say that Wendy literally says, I can speak for myself. Her brother is trying to say, and she's like, guess what, I can speak for myself. Maria (24:52.195) Yeah! Maria (24:56.593) She wants to talk to the aliens. She wants to be in danger. I'm a big girl. I'm going to turn the... Leila (25:03.985) Well, I also think it her feel there's there's a sense like there it makes you clear it makes it clear that she is the favorite right and I think that that is a that is a positioning that she and she's 12 like that she Of course would enjoy she has Maria (25:20.743) Curly is gonna be like taking revenge on that shit. I mean you could see that. Flaming Hydra (25:26.2) Well, yeah, because asshole boy, Pavalier was just like so disrespecting Curly so hard in this episode, know, telling her to leave and telling her to go push a button and just like really, really creating a little monster. Maria (25:32.945) Full on. Leila (25:41.498) I mean, this is, and this is where, like, this is where the show frustrates me, is that he is obviously, like, the big bad, right? Like, the aliens are always the big bad because these are, they're these mindless eating machines, or mindless killing machines. And then the big bad, of course, is, the corporation. And here, Boy Cavalier stands in for the corporation, but he's just so ham-fisted. Like even, even, you know, the Paul Reiser character is like, come on, like we're trying to do this for the good of humanity, Whereas Boy Cavalier is just like, like a step below mustache twirling. Maria (26:24.049) Okay, so we talked about this. Flaming Hydra (26:24.514) Yeah, were, Leela, Leela, were, the last time you were just talking about like the shitty dialogue for the space marines and, you know, just the corny, you I'm having a bad day, whatever, fucking corny shit they were saying. But like, I would defend it as saying that's their function, that and to die. But Boy Cavalier said like the lamest fucking thing in the world, it's my world. You know, you're just, you're just living in it or whatever. I mean, it's just like, yeah, that's some really, some cliche fucking dialogue. Leila (26:53.884) I mean, similar to the, know, Joe, you were bringing up the part about the pit, right? Like there's this great, where they're in the conversation pit, or no, they're playing Jenga, strong person Jenga. And there is this like really interesting, I really liked watching them talk. And I wish that we had a few more of those moments. Though I would imagine that they're very hard to make feel real. Maria (26:54.169) Yeah, true. Flaming Hydra (26:54.936) for Leila (27:24.561) And then of course, you know, the brother is like, well, I'll tell you about the five. This is what it is. You people, I mean, it's literally like, I would imagine somebody being like, I will tell you who Donald Trump is to like a 12 year old. Like a 12 year old knows like who your president is, you know? Maria (27:46.727) Well, they're like, I will say, Boy Cavalier is intended to represent like this amalgam of sort of Musk, Zuckerberg, know, Peter Thiel, like all these terrible oligarch guys who have like, I mean, who are literally behaving like nonsensical super villains as if they'd watched these old Superman movies to like figure out how to be the bad guy. Like, Leila (27:57.273) Mm-hmm. Flaming Hydra (28:14.594) And there's four other flavors. There's four other flavors of this too. Maria (28:16.72) Yeah. Leila (28:19.258) Right. Maria (28:19.377) Well, we've seen like Zutani, who is clearly terrible because she wants her monsters back. Like, what do you want to do? Leila (28:30.14) She kind of was like, she, I felt, I'm not doing any Wayland Yutani apologizing here, but she kind of was like, oh, that was my mom's That was my grandma's deal. Like you could just come back. You've been through an ordeal, come back, and he's like, no, I will get your monsters. Like after she had that upsetting conversation with Boy Cavalier and she talked to Morrow, she was kind of like, eh. Maria (28:46.331) Right? Leila (28:59.778) you know, I felt maybe maybe I was reading. Maria (29:01.703) Kind of. I mean, if it was you and you're like, know, you, Tani, you would be like, no, thank you. You could keep them and welcome. You go ahead and keep those. That's a good idea from me to give to my competitors. Just consider this a little bit. Flaming Hydra (29:21.324) No fucking way. No, no, no self-respecting gangster lets their shit be stolen. They're not going to they're not they're just more. Morrow Morrow is sort of outlived his his purpose and they wanted to come back because they probably just wanted to put a fucking bolt in his head. But they're not done. They're not done trying to get that shit back. Maria (29:37.233) Sure. Maria (29:41.65) hell no. I can't- Leila (29:42.876) Did we talk about the fact that Mauro said that he had a daughter? Maria (29:48.005) Yeah, we did last time a little bit. She didn't like raisins. It's like, I don't even... What do you think about that? Leila (29:57.66) I mean, in that understanding, is he also a synth? Or was he just trying to manipulate her? Maria (30:03.431) He was. Flaming Hydra (30:06.434) No, he's got a human body. Maria (30:10.683) He's got a, he's a, I forget what the different things are called, but like a cyborg, human body with like. Flaming Hydra (30:13.772) He's a cyborg. He's got he's got parts, but he's a he's a human being with parts and mods. That's why he had that. That's why he had to get the fuck out of the room with the eggs. Maria (30:25.511) Mm-hmm. Flaming Hydra (30:27.094) And the third episode. Leila (30:28.828) Let I didn't catch that. That's interesting. Maria (30:30.865) But then he put on the Christmas lights and it was very painful for him. Flaming Hydra (30:35.054) That was priceless. love that. Let's talk about the way they just sort of telegraphed like what Adam is besides him catching the ball. They just had those three faces in his office. three. That was so creepy. Those are probably his old faces. Maria (30:40.271) Yeah, it was really harsh, Maria (30:54.14) Yeah. Leila (30:56.55) So that was. Maria (30:56.903) What was that even for? I mean, you have any clue why an artificial person would need three faces? Leila (31:08.944) I mean, I guess the idea is, I mean, what he was explaining was, you know, it was more symbolic, right? Maria (31:16.135) Okay. Leila (31:16.849) There's an, and I think, you know, unless there's, I'm guessing it was probably just an art director or like somebody writing to like, I mean, they then brought it up of like, hear no evil, like the, the, you know, reminding you to remind the, the everyone around there that like, essentially you must, if you see no evil and you hear no evil, therefore you speak no evil. Maria (31:29.223) yeah! Flaming Hydra (31:30.082) That's great. Leila (31:44.788) I can't exactly, what was it? It was an interesting, was, Kirst was using it to explain that, that is, what? I'm sorry? Yeah, he was using. Maria (31:55.751) completely. to Slightly, he was explaining to Slightly that he should own up. Because let's be clear, like, Kersh watched that whole shit. He has seen the implant in Slightly's neck, and he was actually watching the interaction between those two, right? Leila (32:03.716) Yeah, exactly. Flaming Hydra (32:19.234) Yeah, he's letting it play out. knows exactly what's going on. With Lilo, that's brilliant. The three faces and then the, you're no evil, you're no evil. And it's like, there must be one more. I'm gonna watch it again to see if I can find one more frame when there's three something, some set decorator, like planted one more tree in there. That's really good. Maria (32:24.569) It's so brilliant. Leila (32:31.142) Yeah. Maria (32:31.471) so good! Obviously you are right! Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. Leila (32:39.42) I know you actually brought that it's interesting because in the grand tradition of alien cyborgs are not good. We've seen one that has passed a test and not for a long time. And that was in Aliens, that was Bishop in Aliens. I guess Call in Alien Resurrection also, but she made a big thing of rewriting. She said she had basically rewritten her code and unshackled herself. I mean, consistently, especially in the new versions, cyborgs are generally out to harm humans. And with that, context, we're watching Kirsch, watching all of these things happen and kind of just letting them happen. I, and I, part of me is, you know, is that, is it nefarious or is it because he's literally programmed to be a scientist? Flaming Hydra (33:48.791) Yeah, like the curse has curse like, do we know? I mean, we don't know on camera if Cursus has told Boy Cavalier, hey, you know what? The old security director is plugged right into one of our little projects that, know, they haven't, haven't had that moment. He's, holding that information close to his vest. Maria (33:48.935) Krish. Leila (34:07.044) Right. Right. Maria (34:07.463) But I mean, you see Kirsch, like, maybe I'm just anthropomorphizing, but like I totally see Kirsch as being filled with contempt for Boy Cavalier in every single scene. Flaming Hydra (34:21.016) Totally. Leila (34:22.992) mean, that is anthropomorphizing because he may not be able, I mean, that being said, I'm taking a step back in the grand tradition of aliens, cyborgs tend to be filled with contempt in general because they're so much better than their human counterparts. Additionally, Timothy Oliphant is just playing it as if he's filled with contempt. So I do think you're probably right about that. And I do think that, you know, he is watching all of these things happen. And it's just like, I guess maybe in his grand scientist mind, very similar to like David in Prometheus, where David's like, what if I made him drink the goo, the thing that is now canonically known as the black goo? Maria (35:17.895) That's gross thing. Leila (35:19.709) Like, what if I did that? And I think, know, Kersh is watching some very dangerous things happen very knowingly and just kind of letting it happen. And we are watching him, we are purposefully watching him watch that, right? Which is heightening tension in an interesting way because... Maria (35:41.455) Mm-hmm. Yeah. And the thing, the cliffhanger that they left it on in the previous episode of like, of Hermit's lung, you know, and then Boyd Cavalier is like, you won't believe what we did with the, with the old lung. You know, so you know that they didn't install it back in probably, unless there's something that's really far. Leila (35:49.435) Yeah. Leila (35:58.842) He's got he's got a, that's why he's, he's got an, yeah, a mechanical lung now that is owned of course, yeah, by the company. Maria (36:06.011) a mechanical lung. Because when you do this, yeah, because like, Kersh hand installed the little evil fishy into the old lung. Leila (36:19.916) What do we think about seeing the alien be like tender? Like there was this moment, I mean, where she at the very end, right? The very end scene where she's like talking to it and it comes and gives her a little snuggle. Maria (36:33.05) It's speaking to it. Maria (36:44.549) Okay, first of all, I need to explain to all of you that Joe is mimicking the action of the tiny alien head with his hand and stroking it so that we can all kind of see what happened. And it was weird. And I thought, she just gonna like get it to like come to her so that she can strangle it? It was sort of like snake charming. It had a very snake charming vibe. Leila (36:57.468) Mmm. Flaming Hydra (37:06.69) No, she likes it. She likes it. She can communicate with it. now, her value is just skyrocketed astronomically to boy cavalier because she can control those fucking things. Maria (37:11.983) Now she's stopped re-littling that shit. Leila (37:20.241) Well, can she control those things? We could see that she took a small baby one and made it, you know, want a yeah. I mean, and that to me is interesting. I, on one hand, you know, I don't necessarily think it's really interesting to see. Maria (37:27.215) May speak to her. Leila (37:43.948) the xenomorph in a sympathetic way. it would be a bummer to figure out that all they needed was a hug from mom. Right? Nobody wants that. we all, know, we, but, and I'm gonna talk about, they just wanted, maybe if we introduce them to like, Maria (37:52.583) A cuddle. Maria (38:00.197) That's he wants. Maria (38:10.183) My idea means even worse. Leila (38:11.996) which a little earlier, know, better, like higher EQ parenting. Maria (38:20.411) Woo! Flaming Hydra (38:21.054) I'm just gonna say by the time this season ends, Wendy's gonna be up on top of one of those things riding it around, chasing people around with it. She's gonna be riding one of those aliens, like her buddy. Leila (38:32.154) Well... Maria (38:35.047) Like a sandworm. Leila (38:35.26) Can we talk about scenes that we have not seen yet that have been in previews? Because in the series trailer, you see what appears to be a flash of the alien on its home world, maybe? you see kind of... I don't want to get it... Maria (38:45.552) Okay. Leila (39:04.75) entirely in, I don't want to make it incorrect or say something incorrectly, but like you see an alien kind of like in a more casual environment for lack of a better word. You know, hanging out, smoking a cigarette. Flaming Hydra (39:18.286) Chill. Maria (39:21.233) jeans jacket. Flaming Hydra (39:22.734) Bye Jenga. Leila (39:23.899) Yeah, no, you see it one kind of like, you know, and I think it's a pale one. And I do think there is something like we don't know shit about these creatures' home worlds, right? And that's always what it's been, that's both a mystery and a really right place to mine. And I'm afraid of someone mining it because I don't want them to get it wrong. Flaming Hydra (39:32.995) failure. Maria (39:50.843) Yeah, I mean, how would what would make sense to you, Leela, like having seen what we've seen, like these are just relentless, like the the the whole reason that this whole franchise has been so fascinating to people is the relentlessness of the bad guy of the the Xenomorphs. It's they're they're just like the right from the first alien film you were just like, my God, I've seen like all these science fiction bad guys and Godzilla and Mothra and Leila (40:07.59) Mm-hmm. Maria (40:19.823) you know, creature from the Black Lagoon and never have we seen such an implacable foe. And it is like, how do you get, how do you advance from that? I mean, what do you think about that now? Flaming Hydra (40:34.966) make them less fun. minute we start to learn more, it's going to be less fun. Leila (40:39.452) I agree, unless there's something, mean, they literally, this is a being that literally evolved to have acid blood, you know? And like, there, and I, and I, they had to evolve in a way they do have, we do know that they have a matrilineal society. And, you know, there must, there must be some relationship between them. Once again, I don't know how much. Maria (40:40.1) Wow. Leila (41:07.386) The past movies are canon here. One of my favorite, this most recent episode made me think the most about resurrections because of the fact that Sigourney Weaver has kind of a deep connection with the alien-human hybrid, which in retrospect looked very bad. But there's a scene where the other two aliens look to the third alien and they're all trapped, they're all trapped in this room and the other two aliens make the decision to kill the third. And the third's protesting and like, no, no, no, don't kill me. And they, two aliens, like gang up on the third to use his blood to escape. And that is a higher intelligence, right? And that kind of... That kind of intelligence, that was so interesting to me at the time. And I wouldn't mind seeing how opportunistic these killers can be, how they bait, they, you know, how they, you know, play with their foes. I'm not necessarily interested in hearing, you know, about their childhood trauma though. Maria (42:24.775) I kind of, I don't know that I see much evidence that we're gonna be forced to endure their childhood trauma. I what you mean. I just think they're, I think they're gonna remain implacable. I think they're gonna, yeah, I think, I don't know why I think that, but I do. Like the thing, the sort of the big catharsis that I see coming. Leila (42:32.476) But you know what I mean. Maria (42:54.347) is are these children who were like, know, had their souls implanted into artificial bodies going to choose to be their human selves or are they going to choose to live at the expense of diminishing their human selves? Leila (43:13.146) And we're seeing each of the children kind of choose differently, right? Like you're seeing... Maria (43:18.319) Yes. Yes. That's what I thought was great about it. Leila (43:22.874) Isaac slash, I forgot what his name was. His name was most embarrassing, which is why I would have changed it. It was... I can't remember what it was, but now Isaac. And then you see Curly both kind of really leaning into the fact that they are something other than human, where Slightly is not. Slightly is clinging on. He's doing all of this for his human mother. Maria (43:36.603) Mm-hmm. Maria (43:44.071) Okay. Maria (43:50.811) Yeah, it was really brilliant that the moment where he decided he would tell his name and he's saying sing with an H. And I thought, you're doomed now. it's in so many stories, right? Speak your name and create every kind of vulnerability for yourself. Leila (44:14.492) Right, right, right, right, right, right. mean. Maria (44:17.507) It was really well done. Leila (44:20.348) I do think that the tension that is being constructed is tension that makes good sci-fi. I can complain about the script, but we don't always come to great sci-fi and big ideas hoping for a perfect script. That is too big of an ask. Yeah. Maria (44:40.827) Mm-hmm. Yeah, I'm going to. Flaming Hydra (44:48.01) I just have one thing I didn't want to forget. Are they trolling everybody with Boy Cavalier when he gets shit wrong? Because he made the remark about technology. my God, I'm like, God damn it, you idiot, it's Arthur C. Clarke. And it's like, man, they got me. They trolled me. Maria (44:57.211) yeah. Leila (45:00.685) the gossamer Maria (45:08.911) Yeah. Well, I mean, this happens every freaking day, IRL. Like, where these, like, completely ridiculous idiots who have, like, suddenly become in charge of everything, like, demonstrate their own complete, like, incapacity to understand the simplest things about culture, literature, politics, or anything. Flaming Hydra (45:33.303) And isn't NIBs, isn't that pregnancy a pretty typical thing for a child that age to do sometimes to get attention to say that they're pregnant, like mommy or, know, isn't that a typical thing? I I think that's the not knowing, like, yeah, the eyeball monster might've got her, but also this is just, you know, a kid going through some shit because she's got PTSD. Leila (46:06.468) That is what makes that scene, think, to me, smart. Is that we don't know. It can be, it isn't. Is it her? Now, it's of course more threatening because she is not in control of her emotional response and has superhuman strength and immediately, you know, puts Dame Sylvia's life at risk. But... Maria (46:11.911) Same. Same. Leila (46:33.52) that's what makes that scene. Is she just being a kid or is she like hinting to the larger themes? Maria (46:41.915) It's like either way it's fascinating and great and terrible because it's what we're asking of children, that they enter this like crazy ass world, you know? And here they come. Maria (47:03.141) I know. I loved it. And I love the pregnancy thing. like from the very first minute when we saw the octopus monster, like kind of, you know, the tendrils were reaching right towards her eye. And then five seconds later, we have to talk about the sheep. Five seconds later, you see what happened. We didn't talk about the sheep. All right, let's hear about that. Leila (47:18.022) We can do it. Leila (47:22.895) What was so eerie to me about the sheep, I don't know if you guys, I have a preternaturally large television and I don't know if you were able to catch it, but as soon as the sheep like succumbed and the eyeball flopped out, the breathing changed. I don't know if you caught that. was like, it like took over the way it like, the sheep was like hyperventilating. And then once the eyeball, like it took a moment. you know, you really did have, said earlier, you weren't sure if it was going to speak. And that was intentional, right? And like, obviously, you know, Boy Cavalier said that stupid thing of like, or I'm sorry, you know, Wendy was like, you wouldn't want them cutting you up and, and, you know, and of course that is foreshadowing. That is what we call foreshadowing. But I do think the way that that was set up was, you know, the thing that's going to get him is that eye monster, right? That's something that controls his brain. You know, maybe, maybe that's the way he can finally have a great conversation. So. I mean... Maria (48:38.093) God, I mean, how many like insanely arrogant, like stupid people have we met by now who are like, you know, claiming to be intellectuals or, you know, having been in Mensa or some bullshit, right? Like this guy is like the ultimate Mensa guy. And he's actually like a fucking dipwad, like anybody with two brain cells drawn together would like shoot these monsters in the fucking sun. I mean, but no, he can control everything. And I mean, it's just too on the fucking nose with what's happening in our actual world. Oy, anyway, I really like it. Leila (49:14.01) Yeah. Flaming Hydra (49:17.74) He's such an asshole. Anybody who announces that they're having a colonic. Maria (49:22.661) my god, that was so amazing, that was too LA for me that was so LA, I was just like y'all, like not everybody lives in LA, that's bullshit Flaming Hydra (49:24.216) What a fucking ticket. Leila (49:32.509) I think also that these movies generally have a draw a very distinct line between being intelligent and able to survive and able to solve the problem at hand and being in the position of power and being immoral. Like, is he smart or is he just willing to be extremely amoral? You know, and you can look back at past characters in this franchise and ask the same question. You know, are you smart? Are you really that in control? Are you just really willing to be amoral? Maria (50:20.507) The thing that made him a trillionaire allegedly was that he advanced the technology for installing someone's soul in a synthetic body. This is explicitly reported in one of these newspaper articles that you see on a screen somewhere or whatever, you know, the first trillionaire, blah, blah. And it's kind of like what we've seen in all these people, you know, starting with, I mean, probably earlier than Bill Gates, but like, I'm just choosing Bill Gates out of a hat, you know, a person who is like on the record as having kind of co-opted a lot of other people's ideas and, you know, bought or grabbed or whatever, the same thing with Zuckerberg, same thing with Musk. You know, these are people who have like taken the intellectual work or the creativity or whatever that other people brought into the world and like bought or exploited or used those things to gain huge advantages for themselves. I mean, it's like, the same thing with Bezos actually. There's just every single one is the same. Like the, the rapacity. and the creativity are not really in the same kind of universe. And so in the real world anyway, to my knowledge. So, and this guy is kind of like, I don't know, seems like the same kind of person, but like they've made the idea for you that he actually invented some shit, which I don't really know if he did or he didn't. Leila (51:50.0) Right. We know to become extremely, extremely rich, billionaire level rich, in the real world is being able to steal without consciousness. know, nobody is actually rich because they've invented something, but because they're willing to do the things that other people are not. Maria (52:08.944) I don't think. Maria (52:13.157) Right? mean, that seems true to me. I mean, I can't automatically say that's 100 % true, but it seems evident that you look back and it's like somebody else who actually had this really amazing idea that turned into a so-called billion dollar, whatever enterprise. Tootles, by the way, is Isaac's name. I just looked it up. Anybody would change from Tootles. Leila (52:39.16) him. What? He seems familiar. What else was he in? Maria (52:43.301) I don't know. He's really good though. These kids are really good. Fargo. Yeah. Top notch acting, can I say? All of them. They're being asked to do the most insane, like inane nonsense. And they're all like so committed and it's really good. Olifant is just like amazing. I can't even believe it. He's being asked to like wear this outlandish like hairdo. Flaming Hydra (52:44.642) Fargo. News in Fargo. Maria (53:13.273) and still. Leila (53:18.118) I think he's the best. Every time he's on screen, just chooses scenery. Bless him. Maria (53:20.037) Houston. He sure does. Yeah. Joe, go ahead. Flaming Hydra (53:26.99) I just, I think, so the big payoff is, know, the big cliffhanger thing is, is Hermit doomed because slightly sees him as the way to get a xenomorph off the island for Morrow? And is there going to be a swerve, you know? Is it going to end up being somebody else? Does slightly have the guile? to be able to pull anything off like that, or is it all gonna fucking go wrong? What's gonna happen? I mean, we were talking about, we were speculating earlier about how Maro was gonna come at that island really quick, but he's smarter than all of us because he's doing it remotely. He's puppet mastering it. So I just kinda wonder, it's like I'm afraid for Hermit, but I don't know. Maria (54:24.295) I'm not afraid for hermit because Kirsch knows exactly what's going on and is going to play this entire thing to his benefit. that doesn't necessarily include Kirsch doesn't benefit from hermit being sacrificed. And Kirsch knows exactly what's going on. So Kirsch is going to intervene. I don't know how, right? Leila (54:46.436) I think you were right. But I do think that, I do think that, I think that it might be another human. Maria (55:00.391) Who have we even got? Leila (55:01.916) You've got the doctor, the scientist. Flaming Hydra (55:05.198) It could be one of Hermit's friends. Maria (55:05.808) society. Leila (55:08.924) Yeah, I don't think it's gonna be Hermit because I think that that would create the Hermit-Wendy relationship, I think is her main motivation. And if you take that away, her wanting to have buddies with the alien is not enough of a driver for her. But I do think that there is the, that, Maria (55:23.879) Yeah. Maria (55:27.943) 100 % Leila (55:38.371) slightly must cross the line. Right? Maria (55:42.609) Will S- Will Slightly Survive this Disaster? And will his family survive it? Leila (55:50.682) I don't know. Maria (55:53.135) I don't know. Leila (55:54.96) That's a good question. Maria (55:57.755) Here's the thing. This is why I think the most, the highest value person on that Island right now is Wendy. She can communicate with them. Every single person on the Island is invested in her ability to get her doctor do a little thing. So it's like, there's no way that curse is going to allow any, any harm to be fall her in any way that would like, jeopardize that. And so she, There's no way he has to protect hermit. Okay, go on Joe sorry. Flaming Hydra (56:30.946) I was just gonna say that Marle probably already killed Slightly's family, you know, because he can't have any loose ends. Maria (56:41.989) my god. Flaming Hydra (56:42.466) Yeah. Leila (56:43.866) He probably did. Flaming Hydra (56:45.09) Yeah. he's a pro. Maria (56:45.986) my god. Leila (56:47.194) I mean, we been told very, very clearly that this creature, this human, this android, watched someone die, right? In the very first episode, who was begging to get in, and there would have been, there's no reason to have not let her in. Not at all. Flaming Hydra (57:07.564) Yeah, yeah. And talking about stuff that's outside of the episode, I think they're going to do a back to the back to the Maginot episode. Yeah, yeah. Leila (57:19.056) That's the next one I thought, right? I got that in the sense is that it's the next one. Maria (57:19.559) Mm-hmm. Flaming Hydra (57:23.896) So we're really gonna watch Morrow just kind of like lay back and let everybody get murdered. Leila (57:28.806) Yeah. Maria (57:29.605) Wait, though, because, wait, one point, though, because Moro, the reason that he didn't let her in is that she's maybe infected. Leila (57:39.677) I mean, is she? Flaming Hydra (57:42.227) And also there was only room for one person. Maria (57:42.437) Well, I mean, the reason he didn't let her in and he said that he suffered. He said he suffered though. He said he suffered about it, that it was like a bad thing for him. Well, he had the Christmas lights on. Leila (57:53.925) Hmm. Flaming Hydra (57:54.22) Yeah. Maria (57:56.411) Like, you know, he's a tormented, that was no fun, man. Whatever it is that happened to him with those Christmas lights on was not a good experience. It was really creepy, not like getting a facial. Flaming Hydra (58:09.292) It's back to your theme, Maria. It's back to your theme. Maria (58:13.664) Mmm, right? Your soul is sovereign. Leila (58:18.908) I mean, yeah, it's back to your theme. It's interesting. Huh. Maria (58:22.663) It's been an hour y'all. Are we good? Flaming Hydra (58:28.088) I think we're good. I think we got it. mean, unless there's any... Maria (58:30.983) think we got it. Closing remarks, Leila, what have you got? Leila (58:35.996) Closing remarks is that I think that from, so for me, this story has, think, sorry, the original movies have all really played with concepts of like, what's pregnancy? Like this thing coming out of you that you don't control, this like, you know, capitalist system, the streets you like meet, et cetera, et cetera. And I think in order for this to succeed, and I do think it's possible that leaning more and more into that direction and being more and more explicit about those themes about what does it mean to be a parasite? What does it mean to be a host? What does that mean within a society that is entirely built in to service the top. What does it mean when you're in the bottom? Does that does that mean you're you know, you're you're treated as a parasite. And I think that those that relationship is really rich when it comes to gender, when it comes to age, when it comes to like the human self, the soul, the you know, the like, who are you if everything you physically are is gone? And is the thing within you something that you can control? Or is it even you? is it this like, you know, symbiotic relationship with another? Is there, you know, like, what is the difference between a parasite and like, you know, a soul, right? So like, I think those are really interesting ideas. And I don't think that Maria (01:00:25.959) Yeah. Leila (01:00:29.596) we're gonna get clear cut answers because it's a TV show that's kind of written, you know, with hair. But I think that the fact that we're kind of gesturing in that direction is really fascinating to me. And I will certainly be tuning in on Tuesday night to see what happens next. And I think between us, and we'll get together and chat about this, but I think we're in for a pretty bloody ride. Maria (01:00:57.775) I do too. And I like my closing remark is this. The person who could see you, the person who understood your soul, the person who was there with you when you were five and remembered what you said, some silly thing, like that's real. And it's, what we're all clinging to in this time when computers have taken over too much of our lives. And that's what I found really nourishing. and fun and cool and scary about this TV show. Flaming Hydra (01:01:35.599) I just want to get to the recap, which I'm going to cut in. I'm going to cut that in before all this because all y'all just did really good stuff to close the episode out. So I'm to take a stab at the recap and then you correct me. So what happened this episode, because we do provide a service here at the Flaming Hydra podcast, Alien Earth Recap Roundtable Discussion company, Weyland-Yutani. The number one thing is NIBS is unstable and is on lockdown. That's a huge moment because what's going to happen there? You've got somebody who may be completely out of control and I'm sure maybe there's all kinds of science ways to dial her down or... turn off her battery or something like that, I don't know. But otherwise, Slightly is now moving very well for Morrow and is getting ready to get a xenomorph off the island. And Wendy has now, like Adam said, she's proving that she's the next evolutionary step between animal past and transhuman future by talking to the fucking xenomorph. Right? And, and, and Herman's not going, Herman's not going anywhere. Maria (01:03:13.383) I think you should mention before you talk about hermit, think you should mention that slightly has been successfully blackmailed to make it clearer. Flaming Hydra (01:03:25.11) Absolutely. Yeah. And the married couple who are kind of treating a lot of these scents as their children are really worried about what's gonna happen. And I don't know, they might go sideways too. And even Adam keeps telling Boy Cavalier, you know what, can we stop doing this and get back to the main project, which is making these scents work correctly? and Boy Cavalier is veering. So they're really not done with the synths. And now Boy Cavalier is veering towards something that's gonna, he thinks, pay off even more. Maria (01:04:14.663) This isn't necessarily for the episode bit, like it is constantly I'm remembering I wrote a piece about this years ago about how these people get themselves cryogenically preserved, you know? And this is what they're hoping for. This is they were hoping to be made into Wendy's or Slightly's. I mean, this is like a thing that people actually, it's like there's this To me, there's a big divide in this world between people who believe that this is around the corner and people who know it isn't. And it isn't. The first people who were cryogenically preserved, I think it was the late 70s or early 80s, I can't remember exactly, but they, it's the saddest fucking story. Whoever was in charge of it stopped paying the electric bill and they shut off the electricity and the freezer, they melted. Flaming Hydra (01:05:06.723) Yeah. Maria (01:05:07.483) And they found these people who are like in this melted condition. It's like really depressing. Flaming Hydra (01:05:12.312) Yeah, it's like all those stories about Ted Williams' frozen head. or Walt Disney's Frozen Head. Pick one. Maria (01:05:17.863) That's it. Maria (01:05:23.375) Yeah, anyway, we won't talk about that. It's too creepy. Okay. Anyway, thanks guys. That was super fun.