Daniel (00:06.708) It's the joy of two player games on this episode of play saves the world. The ongoing conversation about play and spirituality. messed that up. I'm sorry. Games and spirituality. Sorry. Sorry. Can we do it again? Okay. All right. We'll just, we'll just cut. Okay. Can do it again. Here we go. All right. Kevin (00:21.59) You I didn't even notice. Kevin (00:30.806) Mm-hmm. One, two, three clap. Throw it back. Daniel (00:38.018) Okay, here we go. Daniel (00:47.67) It's the joy of two-player games on this episode of Play Saves the World, the ongoing conversation on games and spirituality. Daniel (01:20.962) We have a new theme song, Kevin. Kevin (01:22.912) We have a new theme song thanks to your son Elijah. Daniel (01:25.944) Well, thank you. Thank you. I love jamming with you there for folks who don't see the video on YouTube for our audio podcast listeners. We enjoy kind of doing some little jamming. We dance out to it. Yeah, we actually, it's that we don't get out of the chairs, of course, but yeah, but from the waist up, we're we're dancing like awkward middle-aged men can dance. Kevin (01:41.77) Yeah, it's like cheer yoga dance or something. Yes. Kevin (01:51.22) I'm sweating. Kevin (01:55.466) Yes. Daniel (01:55.852) Yeah. And we actually, we're your authentic selves. That's right. Actually, a kind of viewer on YouTube actually last episode complimented us on our dancing. So, so, so thank you kind viewer for, for complimenting us on our, on our dancing. Hey, more importantly, welcome everybody to Play Saves the World. It's so good to have you here. My name is Daniel Hilty. Kevin (01:58.497) But we're authentic. Kevin (02:07.212) It's either far-sighted or near-sighted or something, but we appreciate it. Kevin (02:16.108) You Welcome. Absolutely. And my name is Kevin Taylor. Daniel (02:26.701) And we are so grateful, excited, thankful that you have decided to listen to this episode today to watch this if you're on YouTube. If no one else has told you, we are glad you're in the world. You make the world better. And we thank you for being a part of this conversation today. Kevin, if folks like this kind of conversation and like this topic of Well, two player games are a larger conversation of games, spirituality. What can they do? Kevin (03:00.958) Well, they can tell a friend, they can like and subscribe on YouTube, and they can share a comment, write a comment in Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or they can help support the channel and its various costs of producing it by becoming a Patreon member. So patreon.com slash play saves the world. Daniel (03:03.404) Yeah. Daniel (03:26.497) We really appreciate all of the support and interest and likes and all of that. Thank you. Thank you. We're saving up for the play saves the world starship, but we're a bit away. Kevin (03:39.392) That's it. Kevin (03:43.83) But we're close. We're not, actually. Daniel (03:45.283) No, we're close. More seriously, though, it does help with like a license with like fees and costs and stuff. we so we appreciate any any financial help. Thank you. So today, Kevin, we're talking about two player games. And when we're talking about two player games, what are we what are we talking about here? Are you are you are you a fan of two player games? Kevin (03:53.516) Yes. Kevin (04:15.894) Daniel... Kind of. Daniel (04:20.216) Kind of, yeah, say more. Kevin (04:23.044) Well, well, well, we are talking about tabletop games and you know, a two player game is a little more, little more pressure, I think. I think it puts a little more pressure on it. You have to be comfortable with either winning or losing because it's all on you, right? Daniel (04:27.372) Right. Right. Daniel (04:33.645) Hmm. Daniel (04:41.132) Hmm. So there's like no, you're not going to come in second or third or fourth. You're either first or last. Is that kind of what you mean? Yeah. Yeah. Kevin (04:47.148) Yes, that's it. You're first or last. So you go out on a hot date and you crush your hot date in points and you'll never see them again. Um, it's tough. It's a bad first date or they crush you and then you're annoyed and you never call them either. So yeah, it's a little bit of a high, to me it's a high stakes endeavor to go, uh, uh, you, want to play against someone who is hope. Daniel (04:58.464) It's a bad first date. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Daniel (05:10.798) Hmm. Kevin (05:15.85) Well, I guess there's two things. Evenly matched is going to be fun. But if you want to learn, you probably want to play against someone who's better than you. Daniel (05:20.514) Right. Daniel (05:24.962) Hmm. But then there is probably a good chance that you're not going to do as well as they do, but that's okay. That's part of the learning process. Yeah. Yeah. Kevin (05:32.439) Yeah, you have to be okay with that loss, but yeah, but with multiple people, know, it's kind of like a hot potato and someone could pull out and end up winning in terms of pull or pull ahead of the lead or various things, or someone gets the kingmaker thing, which is where someone's winning and someone can't win, but because of what they do, they prevent that person from winning. So it makes the stakes just to me a lot more comfortable to have multiple people playing. Yeah. Daniel (05:59.266) Yeah. It makes a lot of sense. I haven't thought about that, but you're right. in a two player game, the spotlight is on you, right? Whereas if it was three, four, five, six player game, it's not just on you, right? Like the spotlight's going around the table and around the circle and you're going to have some time when, yeah, you don't feel that pressure. Yeah, that's a good point. Kevin (06:03.52) Does it. Kevin (06:10.668) Mm-hmm. Kevin (06:24.694) Yeah, or maybe you're losing and someone else is losing and you do a secret alliance and you still lose, but it's still fun. Like you have a side game going on where you're trying to help each other and that two player games, can't quite do that. Yeah, yeah. Sort of like I won't attack you. Yeah, yeah. Daniel (06:29.249) Yeah, yeah. Right, right. You're in solidarity with someone else. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Others have lost. Yeah. Yeah. Have you ever had a first date where you, where you played a game? Kevin (06:46.924) Yes, Scarlett Johansson in 03. And she said, fine, I'll just be in a Marvel movie. so and never thank you from her. Never thank you. Daniel (06:49.453) You Daniel (06:55.117) Okay. Really? just, so I assume she, so if I'm reading between the lines, she lost the game and, and as a consolation, she decided to make a Marvel movie. Kevin (07:02.868) Yes, she lost the game. Kevin (07:09.302) to decide she would show me and become the Black Widow. Daniel (07:13.677) tail as old as time. that's a good. That's. That's OK. Yeah, yeah. Oh. Kevin (07:15.34) Scarlett, you're great. You're great. We love you. So, yeah, no, I really haven't. I really haven't done that. Occasionally, Jenny and I will play cat in the cat in the box, something like that, like kind of a low stakes game at the brewery or something. But yeah. Daniel (07:32.855) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's interesting, you, we'll get in, I think this is a theme we'll get into later on, but it seems easy to get into the subject of relationships when you are talking about two player games more so than other games. So, we're talking about tabletop games, as you said, but we're not talking about, at least I'm not talking about, but I just want to see if maybe we're on the same page. I'm not talking about, Kevin (07:50.166) Good point. Yeah. Kevin (07:59.393) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Daniel (08:07.775) exclusively two player games, but just games that can be played at two player and that. Kevin (08:11.369) Mm-hmm. Daniel (08:17.323) we feel are good experiences being played at TwoPlayer. Does that make sense? Is that where you're coming from as well? Yeah, okay, okay. Kevin (08:20.67) Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Yes. Yes, which rules out some games some games like auction games or a dudes on the map game type thing really require three or more so like Twilight Imperium or some of the auction type stuff yeah, you can't do one you need someone else to stir the pot a bit and Daniel (08:33.132) Right. Daniel (08:42.037) Yeah. Kevin (08:43.146) Yes, we're ruling some games out, but yeah, we're looking at either exclusively or just exclusively two player and there are games designed for that or just games that are great at two player. Daniel (08:45.239) Yeah. Daniel (08:54.453) Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a good point. Some are not good at two player. Telestrations, for example, is horrible to player. You draw, you draw, you draw the picture and show it to the person and they tell you and they say what they think it is. And that's it. That's the whole game. It's it's awful. That's that's a cat. Yay. Yeah. Kevin (08:57.409) Yeah. Kevin (09:00.748) You Kevin (09:09.199) That's it. That's it. That's it. That's a cat. I guess if you just keep it going long enough, you don't actually ever remember what you drew. So it just has to be a two hour. Like it has 50 phases and you don't remember. Like, don't, I don't, is that me? Daniel (09:19.917) That's true, that's true. That's right. That's the 30th round around the table. It gets interesting. Kevin (09:32.352) Yes, yeah. And some games are like Root. Root is really designed for the four player combination. And you can do it two player, but it's like almost a variant of the game. So it really needs the balance of all four. So yeah, some games don't, they don't work. Daniel (09:45.654) Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. And we were talking before going on air here that, you know, while exclusively two player games, in other words, like games are only made for two players, are really a very small slice of the board game market today. There aren't many relative to the tens of thousands of games that are out there. There are very few exclusively two player games, games only made for two people, but... Historically, that's what most games have been like in the ancient world, You know, the games like chess and checkers, Moncala, Go, backgammon. Throughout history, most games have been exclusively two player. Is that? Yeah. Kevin (10:25.258) Hmm. Kevin (10:37.088) Yeah, that's mind blowing because it's probably such a sliver of my gaming experience of two players doing two players. So it's weird to think, as you're saying, the history of most gaming is two player. The multiplayer is more of a, I guess, modern invention. I guess. Daniel (10:55.661) I wonder what created that shift. of, yeah, there, I, yeah, yeah. There is, I know we were talking, there is like Pachisi out of India is kind of an exception. It's a multiplayer game that's dates from like 1500 years ago. but yeah, it's, seems, that seems to be. Kevin (11:00.374) But it's just printing, being able to print on cardboard. Daniel (11:26.017) kind of a lone example of a multiplayer game in a, in a, that might be. Kevin (11:29.036) Maybe it was a deodorant issue. Like so many people smelled so bad back then that you could only tolerate one person that close to you. Daniel (11:35.723) You just one on one. That's one that might be that might be. Maybe that's the answer. Kevin (11:41.868) Party games just were, yeah, just too much. much. Yep. Twister and a toga. Twister and a toga. Daniel (11:46.248) Too much, too much. Twister. So, so, so, so you're not a big fan of as much of two player games. You feel kind of a little bit pressure from it, but are there some, are there some good things about two player games? What, what's, what are some joys of two player games, some benefits? Kevin (12:11.976) Yeah, well, if you're both really into the hobby, it's a great way to learn and play a game because you can go, go, go, go, go. Or you don't have that, you know, four person waiting. Five, six person, whatever. Yeah, you can just play. So it's quick. Yeah. Yeah, between turns. Yeah, yeah. Daniel (12:20.908) Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's really quick between turns. mean, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's so true. There are games on the market that are like six, seven player, eight player, whatever. And I always think, that's so great. But then you actually have to play them and not every time, but a lot of time that means you have to wait for like seven other people to take their turn. before it gets to be your turn again. And that's a really long wait, whereas, you you said two player, it's back and forth really, really rapidly. You don't have to wait for the turns to go everyone around the table before your turn again. Kevin (12:56.384) Yes. Kevin (13:04.075) Yeah. Kevin (13:08.396) If you have eight people, there's that one person that's always 15 minutes late and it just everyone's kind of, you know, just sort of waiting for Paul or whatever to get there. And yeah, yeah, it's tough because you can't, don't want to start without them, but everyone's waiting. So yeah, more, more, uh, more difficulty scheduling, more, more length and, um, waiting for people to finish their turn, more likelihood of analysis paralysis. Yeah, it's tricky. Daniel (13:19.277) Hmm. Daniel (13:23.115) Yeah, yeah, yeah. Daniel (13:35.628) Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah, and as a result, think that means it's two player games are off also often easier to get to the table because because you're not having to wait on Paul or Pauline or to show up to show. Yeah, you're not having to it's like you're not having to coordinate right with large groups of people. In fact, getting back to that relationship issue oftentimes for two player games. Kevin (13:50.988) Pauline, RuPaul, Paulette, yeah, any version of Paul. Kevin (13:58.775) Right. Daniel (14:04.629) It's not uncommon for a person to play with their partner, right, or with their spouse. And so you don't even have to invite them over. You just say, hey, after dinner, you want to play a game and you go play a game. So it's a lot easier to get them. If you wash the dishes, will you play the game? I think that's a a good bargain. I like it. Kevin (14:14.73) Right. If I wash the dishes, will you play this game? Kevin (14:24.96) Right. That's right. Always a negotiation. Yeah. Daniel (14:28.289) Have you ever played a game while washing dishes? Or it could be a game. Make a game of it. Yeah. Except the cardboard, little, the cardboard tiles. That's horrible. When they get waterlogged and soapy, we ruined a Carcassonne set like that, because it was, it was. Kevin (14:34.484) make a game of it. Hmm? Yeah. Kevin (14:42.39) Mm-hmm. Kevin (14:45.953) Right. Kevin (14:49.42) It's tricky, it's tricky. Daniel (14:55.051) But then the meeples were like swimming in the water. were floating in the water. They looked cute. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Kevin (14:57.034) They were they were going. Yes. Yes, we played Battleship one time in the kitchen and we would try to say you sank my battleship, but they float. And so, yeah, the game we had eventually just called a draw because they just kept falling in the soapy water and floating. And then sometimes we play Blood on the Clock Tower and so we set up and then I just asked Jenny as we. Daniel (15:07.765) Really? Daniel (15:13.903) Hahaha Kevin (15:23.798) put the forks away, say, are you the demon? And she says, yes. And then the game ends. Daniel (15:28.397) Well, I mean, it was a good way to. You got it. You expedited the process. It was good. The efficiency is to be admired. Yeah. And also kudos to Jenny for her honesty. Yeah. Kevin (15:40.438) Yeah, exactly, exactly. Yes, well, I mean, the truth is I knew it had to be her because it wasn't me. there is a version you could because there's one, you know, it's a hidden agent type thing. Daniel (15:50.413) because it was a two player game. Daniel (15:57.195) Yeah, yeah. So werewolf will not show up on our list of top five two player games because it's yeah. Yeah. Yes. No, that's right. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. Kevin (16:02.7) no. Are you the werewolf? No. You're right, it was me. Okay, you win. Anyway, yep. Do you think the majority of your gaming is with Kristen? I get the sense you guys play a lot of games. Daniel (16:19.948) The majority with Kristen. That's a great question. I'd have to look at my statistics. Kristen's my wife or listeners. Yeah. I would say probably at least half. I don't know if it'd be the majority. Well, if I'm saying at least in the mix of the majority. It's certainly a lot. mean, certainly more. She's my number one gaming partner. When you look at the statistics of people that I've played with by far more than anyone else. Kevin (16:31.882) Yeah, that's what I was guessing. Kevin (16:47.756) Mm-hmm. Daniel (16:49.996) You too, for you and your wife Jenny. Kevin (16:53.374) No, Jenny's, she really likes games and played a lot as a kid, but she dislikes having to learn a new one. And so she's really not into, you know, whereas I'm in the hobby, so I'm always wanting to try something new. And yeah, yeah. But if there's a group, I mean, she will. But but so much. Yeah, I end up. got some friends and we just enjoy abstruse and, you know, unnecessarily annoying games. So. Daniel (17:00.672) Yeah. Kevin (17:23.158) That tends to be where I run to. But Jenny's funny. She'll sometimes jump in and play Twilight Imperium and stuff and have a great time. You never know. Daniel (17:24.896) Yeah. Daniel (17:31.915) Yeah, yeah. Well, and I think that brings up, you know, another great benefit, great joy of two player games. It allows, and we've alluded to this already, but I mean, it allows probably for greater relationship building than any other player count, right? I mean, you can get to know people on a table, but if it's just you and your spouse or your partner or your friend or whatever. Kevin (17:50.87) Mm-hmm. That's a point. Kevin (18:00.786) Mm-hmm. Daniel (18:01.044) or someone you'd like to get to know better. Two-player games really facilitate that. You're not having to, because there's the game, but then there's also the relationship of the people around the table. And if you're dividing your time among three or four relationships around the table, that's great, but it won't allow you the chance to get to know any of them as deeply or as well as if it's just you and one other person sitting on the table. It's a great, it's a good way to get to know someone better. Kevin (18:14.198) Yeah. Kevin (18:20.236) Hmm. Kevin (18:26.538) Yes. No, you're absolutely right. And in fact, you know, I know Jenny pretty well, but I've come to also understand the kind of game she likes. So I've gotten much better at, you know, knowing this is a game she would like because she doesn't like a lot of waiting, you know, for stuff, you know, so just do one thing. So there's a lot of games like that, too. I think it's more of probably our style as people living in. Daniel (18:44.778) Right, Yeah, yeah. Kevin (18:54.262) whatever year it is currently, right? Like we just, we want things to be kind of boom, boom, boom. So yeah, there are games I know that she'll like, and there's games I know she would hate. And so I've gotten better at doing that instead of, you know, when I first got into this some years ago, it was kind of a little bit of a guilt trip of like, hey, I got this game. Will you play it with me? And it was, it wasn't fair to put that on her. Like, so I've gotten better at realizing what she might enjoy. Daniel (19:04.876) That's a neat point. Daniel (19:19.338) Yeah, yeah. Daniel (19:23.712) That's a great point. Yeah, not only do you get to know the person better, but you get to know part of that is, yeah, their tastes in games and what brings them joy and how you can express that in the games you pick. Yeah, I like that a lot. Yeah. Kevin (19:32.716) Mm-hmm. Kevin (19:37.813) Right, right. And knowing which groups are going to be into stuff that are like space themes or whatever. And yeah, that's fun to explore with and cultivating those kinds of either groups or one-on-one players or whatever, what people enjoy. yeah, get... No, no, you go. Daniel (19:52.598) Yeah. And then that probably also means, go ahead. Or just that probably also means you get to know the game better too, because you pick this game that you like and you know this other person likes, that allows for probably a greater likelihood of replay. And I think it seems to be my experience, like I get to know the two player games a lot better than I get to know almost any other game because... Kevin (20:22.826) Hmm. Daniel (20:25.152) because they get to the table more often, because there's less downtime, because it means it's a game that you and this other person enjoy instead of having to find the rare game that all four people like or whatever. Anyway, least look at my own collection. Yeah, like I... Kevin (20:39.532) yeah, you're absolutely right. Yeah, yeah, you're right. Daniel (20:45.044) So it's a good way to at least, well, thanks. It's a good way to get to know a game. If you can find a good game for two people, you get to know it really well, it feels like. I know in a little bit in our list here, when we get to our top five, like some of the games near the top of the list, Kristen and I have just played the heck out of, right? I just really know them really well. Probably better than any other game. So yeah, yeah. Daniel (21:20.448) might want to add one other joy or benefit to two-player games, if I may. Well, it is that two-player games provide practice in not taking things personally. Kevin (21:23.148) Hmm. Sorry Daniel, it's not on the outline. Kevin (21:44.296) Mmm. Daniel (21:51.179) And I don't know if I'd like to hear if this gels with you and your experience of Jenny, but I do. Yeah. So by far, Kristen is my top partner in two player games. So I've played some with our, with our adult children as well with some two player with Maggie, some two player with Elijah. But what Kristen and I have found is that there are some games that are two player that have kind of what we call like, like an in your face factor, right? Like you're, you're, you do something that's really harmful to the other person. And in a two player game, it feels so personal. Kevin (22:13.791) Mm-hmm. Daniel (22:21.14) Right? Because yeah, yeah. And a three or four player game, that's maybe not less per, you know, it's less personal. Maybe it might be this person this time, but the other person next time. But in a two player game, every kind of negative act I take, it's all directed toward this other person. Right. And, and so it's, it can feel very personal. And so maybe in a way kind of a backward positive way, it's like, Kevin (22:21.728) Yeah, that's the problem. Kevin (22:27.595) Mm-hmm. Daniel (22:51.894) Two player games allow us to practice not taking things personally. I don't know. Does that gel with any of your experience or what are your thoughts on that? Kevin (22:55.688) Mm-hmm, yeah. Kevin (22:59.978) No, I mean, that's a great, no, does help you. mean, you're going to have to accept that or not play them probably because it's going to happen that you're either going to lose and be frustrated or you're going to win in a way that makes you feel gross. So you do have to remember it's just a game and it's, it's really inconsequential for doing well in life. Like that's the whole point of a game. And letting that go and and if you play different ones, you will realize that you're better at some games than others. And I find that really curious. Like you and I have played Arc Nova. I've played it a bunch. I'm just terrible at it. And I'm sure if I worked at it, I could get better. But there's something about it. I can't get the timing right. So whatever I'm trying to do. I'm not going to get it done by the end of the before the game ends. Does that make sense? Daniel (23:54.27) It does, it does. Yeah, yeah. Kevin (23:54.667) It's a tempo things and a lot of games are really about tempo like having a plan to win within a certain time frame and Yeah, but if you play different games, you'll realize that hopefully there's things you're really good at you just pick up naturally but Daniel (24:05.217) But you're- Daniel (24:12.384) think similarly, you and I have also played root and played the digital implementation of that. And you're way better at that than I am. I can't kind of same thing, kind of wrap my head around in the ways that you can. Yeah. Yeah. Kevin (24:20.107) Hmm. Kevin (24:24.044) Yeah, so that's the hope hopefully you get there. That would be great because that means everybody wins at some point and everyone loses, which definitely makes it more interesting. If you always won, it would get quite boring. But yeah, it does force you to not take things personally, which games often do that anyway, but especially when it's two player. There are some Euro type games that it's not going to be too personal. And in fact, that's kind of the... Daniel (24:33.185) Yeah. Daniel (24:37.238) Yeah. Daniel (24:53.679) nice. good. Kevin (24:53.841) list but somewhat somewhat are the ones that are higher up for me. Daniel (24:58.516) I want to, I'm excited to hear them. That's good. That's good. There's a song that I enjoy with the line. Kevin (25:00.94) Ahem. Daniel (25:10.476) something about the effect of learning that bad luck isn't personal. And I kind of think about that in relation to games too, but also just kind of a life skill that I know I find myself often in times where something bad happens and it's like, why is the universe against me or whatever? When honestly, it's just life, right? That bad luck isn't personal. And similarly, Kevin (25:17.536) Hmm. Daniel (25:39.54) If the mechanics of a game are designed to have this mechanism that doesn't necessarily feel good, it's also not personal. It's just the way the game is. Kevin (25:49.377) Right. Yeah. Or someone won because they played the game more often or they they've lost. They've just simply played and lost more games than you have. So that's how you learn is by losing. Daniel (25:54.849) Yeah. Daniel (25:58.955) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Kevin (28:02.504) So Daniel, you ready to do a top five two-player list? Daniel (28:06.539) Top five two player list. Yes, I'm excited. I want to hear what's on your list. I have to admit, I tried to guess some what's going to be on your list and I really had trouble thinking of what might be on your list. Kevin (28:19.264) Yeah, this is a niche category. It's really interesting. there's one, I got maybe one that's a crossover, but I don't know. Daniel (28:21.822) Yeah, yeah. Daniel (28:30.493) Okay, so you're predicting one crossover. Maybe. Okay, I'll... One to two. Okay, okay. All right. That's up. Honorable mentions. I have three honorable mentions. I'm sorry. Yeah, I know. I'm sorry. How many do you have? Kevin (28:32.958) one crossover and one to two. Honorable mention for you. my gosh. Daniel (28:52.811) You have bested me again, Kevin Taylor. Kevin (28:53.38) 15,000. No, I have two. Daniel (29:00.811) That sounds good. I'll be quick. My first honor will mention Sea Salt and Paper. Sea Salt and Paper. Yeah, most of most of my games I want to share are not exclusively two player and that includes Sea Salt and Paper, but it's a really cute game. Very small, very small box. It's like a single deck of cards in a box that's about the same size as a single deck of cards. Every card has unique Kevin (29:07.433) Mmm never played it. I've heard it's Kevin (29:22.474) I've seen it. Daniel (29:29.099) origami art, a picture of an origami, a piece of origami folded in some way. You're scoring points by set collection and also by combinations of pairs of cards that have special powers. And then also you can win the game instantly if you collect all four mermaids. In our family, we call it the mermaid strat, and it is often attempted but never achieved. Kevin (29:51.156) Hmm. Mmm, mer-strap. Daniel (29:58.732) But the idea of capturing, of collecting all four mermaids and winning instantly is an appealing thought. That's what my honor roll mentioned, sea salt and paper. How about another one honor roll mentioned for you? Kevin (29:59.021) Great. Kevin (30:08.236) Hmm. I love it. I love it. Kevin (30:14.727) I brass Birmingham. Daniel (30:17.099) my goodness, that's such a good one. I love it. Kevin (30:20.116) It's a good one. And it's good because it's a longish game, I think, with multiple people. And it's a thinky game. So yeah, that's one that would work too. can't, maybe I've played it once for two player, but it occurred to me that that would be a good, just another bit of two player. If you wanted, as we're saying, if you want a thinky, tricky game, like it's a good way to play it because it's going to be less. Yeah. Daniel (30:27.134) Yeah, that's a good one. Daniel (30:44.139) Thanks. That's such a great choice. You're right, because it's a fantastic game, but it's so long. but having it with two players makes it playable. I mean, I mean, if you're concerned about length and time and that's great. I like, I like that one. Kevin (30:49.649) thanks. Kevin (30:59.178) Yeah, and and you don't attack it's a euro so you may block someone's path, but you not actually you dealing damage to them or something. Daniel (31:08.671) Yeah, yeah, I love it. That's good. My second honorable mention is Fantasy Realms. Also a, do you know this one? It's also a single deck of cards, but it is so interesting. I don't know any other game like it. You have... Kevin (31:11.685) thanks, yeah. Kevin (31:29.91) Hmm. Daniel (31:37.836) these combination the cards combo with each other and you only can play out a certain number of cards in front of you and once Somebody has played out when it gets to be your turn you have to you have to you have to either Know wait wait. No, I I got it confused. I'm sorry back up. You are collecting cards in your hands in your hand and you don't play and you don't know what it is anyone's hand until at the very end of the game everyone plays out their cards in front of them and and the cards combo with each other to collect points and so you're just trying to see how these cards combo with each other but but but you don't know what's happening all you know is that basically what people are collecting or or discarding into a common pool in in the middle of the table of face-up discard Kevin (32:05.324) Mm-hmm. Kevin (32:13.868) Hmm. Kevin (32:20.822) Nice. Daniel (32:34.559) get discards. And it's really interesting. There are two player rules that come with the game, but we have found we like to just play it with the standard rules, but just playing with two players. We find that better for our experience of it at least. But fantasy realms, it's really quick. It's interesting to figure out what combos you can get. Each card is unique. Kevin (32:37.036) Mm-hmm. Kevin (32:58.604) Mm-hmm. Daniel (33:01.381) and so can interact uniquely with all the other cards in your hand. And then there's this great surprise, this great reveal at the end of the game when everybody plays out their hand. Anyway, I really like fantasy realms. Kevin (33:11.692) And you don't think the two-player version is necessary. Daniel (33:15.431) No, we find it in our experience better to just play with the regular rules, but just play it with two players instead of the separate two player rules. Yeah. Kevin (33:23.18) Mm-hmm. Kevin (33:27.948) Hmm. Interesting. That's unusual. Because generally, two-player roles, like it blocks off some stuff or does some important things. So I've not seen that option that, yeah. Daniel (33:31.369) Yeah. How about? Daniel (33:36.435) Yeah, yeah. We didn't find the two player rules necessary in our experience to create a good play. How about you? What's your honorable mention? Kevin (33:48.033) Yeah, and this is just stuff from my experience. you know, this is take it for the grain of salt. But Terraforming Mars Ares Expedition. again, it's a card based thing, which is what you I wonder if it seems like most two player games are are not most, but many are card based, maybe because you just don't need the overhead of a big blah, blah, blah, blah. But yeah, that's a set collection. And it's it's a Daniel (33:58.154) Yes. Daniel (34:07.965) Interesting. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Kevin (34:17.448) It's not a big box and that's one that we have played that works really well. Daniel (34:22.783) like that. Are you also a fan of regular terraforming Mars? Kevin (34:28.629) I've never I've I've messed with the digital version and I get it but I've never played the regular. I'm embarrassed to say. Daniel (34:34.185) Yeah, yeah. No, no embarrassment. Yeah, yeah, that's cool. Kevin (34:37.6) Well, I'm embarrassed because it's considered such a great and I get it, but I do think a lot of games like Arc Nova have kind of mimicked it. And so I don't know that I mean, I'd love to play it, but I'm not sure I'm to buy it and learn it necessarily. But I get I think I could figure it out pretty quickly because I because I've played the digital and watch stuff. yeah, just remember. I think by the time I got into the hobby, it had already kind of peaked, maybe in terms. Daniel (34:47.135) Yeah. Daniel (35:06.527) Right, right. Kevin (35:07.206) of blowing, know, blowing out people's minds or just like, whoa, this is so Daniel (35:09.931) Yeah. Daniel (35:13.567) Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's fair. Cool. Well, and my my final, my third and final honorable mention is is an exclusively two player game. Actually, I think there is a very where you can do four, three or four player. But for the most part, it's now I think there are three or four player variants. But but for the most part, it really sings at two player. And that is Santorini. Have you played Santorini? Kevin (35:42.102) Yeah. Daniel (35:44.308) it Kevin (35:45.089) My youngest child was really into it, but he would always do all when he was little and he would do all these take backs and it kind of drove me crazy because he wanted to win and it just got a little annoying. So because you felt like he was kind of cheating, but he was young. So I haven't played him in 10 and playing forever. Six years, so I don't have an opinion, but but it's hard. I remember it's really hard to see what's coming up. That's a cool game. Daniel (35:47.563) Yeah. Daniel (35:52.292) yeah, yeah, I could see that. Right, right, right. Daniel (36:03.626) Yeah, no, it's Daniel (36:09.481) It is. Yeah, yeah. Maggie, our daughter and I, this is a game I played mostly with Maggie. It has almost kind of a classic two player game feel like Chester, Checkers or something like that. And it's it's beautiful. Like the you're building up these buildings that look they're inspired by the style of Santorini, Greece or, you know, the island of Santorini, white towers and blue domes on top of the towers. But you're but you're building up these buildings. You're trying to capture Kevin (36:20.309) Mm-hmm, it does. Mm-hmm. Daniel (36:40.203) pieces and you have to be above another piece and you're jumping from kind of the ground to the roof to the roof to another roof. It's a beautiful, elegant two player game. yeah, we just haven't played in a long time, which is why it isn't on my top five. But Santorini is a great two player game. Kevin (36:59.766) That's awesome. What's number five for you? Daniel (37:00.447) So, all right. My number five is Village Rails. Kevin (37:11.604) Your games are made up, but go ahead, sir. Daniel (37:12.971) Village Rails is a not exclusively two player game, but we really like it a two player. It's made by Osprey Games. It is the kind of spiritual sequel, I think, to Village Green, also by Osprey Games. But we like this better than Village Green. Village Green is good too, but Village Rails we especially like. It's again, card driven. You are building out this grid. of cards in front of you, this tableau, if you will, of a railroad that winds its way through the English countryside. along the way, you are collecting points based on different features of the railroad in this tableau that you're building out in front of you. And you're also, it's really clever that the the same card, the same deck of cards on one side, it's the railroad, what you're building in front of you. On the other side, it's scoring conditions. It's kind of like Sprolopolis in this way. And so the cards can be used one way or the other, and you don't get the choice, but they come out one way the other, based on whether it's one side or the other, of scoring conditions or basically tiles on your map. And it's really clever. It plays quickly. It's a beautiful little game. If you like railroad games, if you like kind of even tile placement games, it's a lot of fun. And we've had a lot of good experiences with, with village rails. It's a small box, small box, fun game. Yeah. Yeah. And I made it up. It doesn't exist. No, I, I That's right. That's right. No, it is, it is a real game. It is a real game. So that's my number five. How about your number five? Kevin (38:55.308) It sounds great. It sounds like a chat GPT delusional game, it seems like. Kevin (39:06.674) I've got a mention of number five, Twilight struggle, even though it's what I dislike about a two player game because it's high stakes and it's sort of one V one. And yeah, and it's going to take you 30 minutes to set it up. 20 minutes. It's very involved, but it's really cool. And you have to respect the ambition behind it. It's charting the Cold War and. Daniel (39:25.439) Yeah, yeah, yeah. Kevin (39:34.155) Historical moments in that and the globe and you can influence but there's a lot of things going on and there's some really interesting cards that come out that can be played in various ways and I've only played it a handful of times and I've tried it there's an iPad or iOS and Version and things but there was one card I lost on big there's like a certain card that Daniel (39:51.327) Right. Kevin (39:59.085) If you're ahead by 10 points with the DEFCON status at a certain situation and the other person has that card, they win. So I lost by that, which was hard because you're like, oh, look, I'm winning. then all of a sudden, like, boom. then a little bit. And then we were trying it again a few weeks later. And I vaguely was like, what was that card? Daniel (40:06.939) no. Daniel (40:14.581) That sounds very discouraging. Kevin (40:24.352) So what's the chances that he's got it again? And then it happened again. I was like, crikey. I know. So it's the kind of game where you really want to know. We play it a lot. You know what the the overpowered cards are or know what to watch for. But but it is really neat. yeah, it's a it's a it's a table hog. but it's it's really interesting. Have you played it? Daniel (40:27.857) no. Daniel (40:46.695) I've not. I hear wonderful things about it. know it is much loved. Very highly ranked on Board Game Geek. How long does it take to play? Kevin (40:51.294) Mm-hmm. Kevin (40:57.964) and a half maybe I'm trying to remember but something like that it's it's not it's not just huge because it's two players but it's a lot for one game and again the setup and tear down there's a lot of little pieces and board state tokens that can come out it's one of the games too you have to watch everything so you're watching a certain area because it's got the the global map all the countries and you kind of miss what's going on in Australia or something and all of a sudden you know Daniel (40:59.819) Okay, that's not too bad. Daniel (41:11.241) Yeah. Daniel (41:26.196) Right. Kevin (41:27.682) So there's a lot to keep your eye Daniel (41:30.905) And we don't want to count out Australia. have we were talking we were talking before they going on air. We have a lot of listeners in Australia and we. We appreciate all of our listeners there so much. Thank you. But yeah, that's it. Now, am I right? So, yeah, these. Kevin (41:34.057) No, we love Australia. Kevin (41:38.84) why it was in my head. Kevin (41:43.764) Yes. They're all listening to us in the middle of the night or something. It's so sweet. Daniel (41:50.191) Thank you. Thank you for tuning in in the middle of the night. That's right. Am I right that I used to say, so it's kind of it's a it's a Cold War simulation, right? So one side plays the United States, one plays the Soviet Union. OK, OK, OK. Interesting, interesting. Kevin (42:00.864) Yes. Yes, that's right. Yes. Yeah, and you've got influence throughout the world and what's going on in terms of where they're siding, which side they're on. And then there are these cards that are historical in sort of eras. So they may or may not get played, but in China comes in at certain points and yeah. Daniel (42:24.554) Okay, okay. Daniel (42:28.308) That's great. Kevin (42:29.632) So like it's sort of following the history except Russia could win or something. Daniel (42:35.434) Yeah, yeah. I love it. That's great. Yeah, yeah. Good, good. Very, very good choice. Kevin, it's occurring to me as we're going through these lists that kind of like our top five cooperative games, there is a you you have all of these wonderful epic games, these big epic games, and I have all of these these these teeny tiny games that so. Kevin (42:38.046) USSR. Yeah, that's kind of fun. Number four for you. Kevin (42:58.966) that I don't play. Daniel (43:03.262) But I think that's awesome because hopefully it provides you, our listeners and our viewers, like a wide range of games you can play, whether you want to go big or small. So you just did a Twilight Struggle, which is fantastic. My number four is Castle Combo, which it is awesome. it's like, again, I think all of my games, at least so far, been like these basically... No, it's not true. Kevin (43:05.228) Aww. Kevin (43:11.04) That's right, that's right. Kevin (43:20.726) I hear it's awesome. Daniel (43:29.62) But many of my games are like these little deck of cards. And it's the same thing. Castle Combo is played with two decks of cards, the castle deck and the village deck. And you are buying cards from one deck or the other that's on display to, you're basically building this grid of cards, much like village rails, but you're building this grid of nine by nine. I'm sorry, three by three to make nine cards, three by three grid in front of you of people from the castle and the village that you're inviting to your party. And again, they interact with each other and you score points based on how they interact with each other. Sometimes it's like, well, if you have this kind of card in this row with this card, you score these points. Or if this card is in this row, you score these points. Or if you have this type of card, this you score points. It's it's it it it now I'm talking about it. I realize it has a similar vibe to other cards. Other games I'm talking about. I guess that's just what we like. And we I mean, most of my two point games are Kristen and myself. It's very straightforward, but thinky. You're laying out cards in a tableau and you score points based on how the cards interact with each other. Castle combo. Yeah, it's a relatively new game. Kevin (44:31.532) Hmm. Daniel (44:54.62) It's pretty popular and we really like it. It can be played at more than two, but we just like it as a two player game. Castle Combo. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, that's my number four. What's your number four? Kevin (45:02.102) That's awesome. That's awesome. I've only heard good things. Well, I'm typecast now, so undaunted. Undaunted. Which I first played a geek way. Yeah. Yeah. And that's one that Jenny, we kind of fell off after like half of the expeditions, but that's one she'll play because again, it's a pretty, you you play a card type thing and the turns are Daniel (45:11.594) That's great. That's great. No you you be you yeah Kevin (45:30.633) Snappy and it's not a long game. There's a little setup because each scenario has certain stuff in it So it's kind of like a little map thing you're creating So maybe 15 minutes set up but the game is probably only 30 minutes or so and then you tear it down and it's it's just cool to see their little system that they've developed and by little I mean kind of awesome because they've used it in all sorts of games and it keeps working both and on Daniel (45:45.054) Yeah, yeah. Kevin (45:58.333) in the Undaunted series and some other stuff. Trevor Benjamin and something. Sorry, apologies if they're listening. But yeah, I'd recognize their names. But yeah, they've created a great system that's very flexible with drawing cards and then being able to use them for costs and everything. So it's a it's a pleasing little game. And I think because it's a short game. Daniel (46:07.402) It's okay. Yeah. There we go. There we go. Kevin (46:26.182) Usually 30 40 minutes and it's part of a larger campaign. It makes it lower stakes for two people So first is so Twilight struggle. Is it gonna be with set up a two-hour experience and you're like I lost But with undaunted, you know 45 minutes like well lost but I'm gonna win next time so there's a bit of a Daniel (46:31.902) Yeah, yeah, I could see that. I could see that. Daniel (46:47.56) Right, right, right. Is it the kind of game you can just say, let's set up again and we'll play it again? Maybe? Kevin (46:52.49) Yeah, you could or we'll play tomorrow or next week, but yeah, there's a little less of a, know, I can't believe I lost type thing, at least for me, because the game is a less than. Daniel (47:00.33) Yeah. Daniel (47:05.896) You and I, I forgot that you and I played this at Geekway for the first time, right? That was your first time playing it? Yeah. Kevin (47:06.476) in terms of its scope. Kevin (47:11.766) think so, with you and one of the other folks that were there. I was sort of experimenting, because they had it the library and I knew I wanted to try it. So had the manual trying to figure it out. It's a good little game. Daniel (47:22.44) And it was a fun game. Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned it. Yeah, I really enjoyed it. I enjoyed that. It was a fun two player. That's a good choice. Yeah. Cool. My number three, returning to the world of single decked Gekko hard. But this. That's right. That's right. That's right. Kevin (47:32.396) Thanks, thanks bro. What's your number tree? Kevin (47:43.116) That don't always exist because Kevin's not heard of them so they can't be real, right? Yes, Kevin's world. Daniel (47:50.347) That's an AI hallucination. That's right. Chat, GPT, tell me five, five two player games. This one is an exclusively two player game. And this is a much beloved two player only game. And I really like it too. Lost cities. Have you played lost cities? Yeah. Kevin (48:12.204) Oh. No. I was thinking of underwater cities, but I've not played either one. Daniel (48:18.524) Yeah, Underwater Cities is great too, but Lost Cities, it's a deck of cards, only two player. You are trying to basically build up rows of colors in front of you that can go up to 10. And you can potentially get, you can kind of like double or nothing. You get these options of doubling or nothing, the rows that you build up in front of you. And you're trying to see, you know, who can get the most in a certain color and in a certain row. And it's a numbers game. You're trying to build up the numbers. It's a Reiner-Kennizier game and who's a famous German mathematician. But basically, so you're doing a lot of calculations to see, am I going to get enough of this number to... merit kind of trying to do double or nothing on each row. The theme is that you're exploring different cities, but really what you're just trying to do is get, see how many numbers you can get in a certain color. And you can't get all the numbers. And so you're trying to figure out if you can get more than your opponent in a certain number or not. And you discard to a to a common discard in the middle. Kevin (49:40.652) Hmm. Daniel (49:46.182) like fantasy realms, you have the option of drawing from that discard or not. And so part of the game is also thinking about, well, I don't want to discard this because then my opponent will get the card. And it's a lot of fun. Kevin (50:00.204) That is always a fun choice in a game. Yeah, the challenge of a discard and will it help them? Daniel (50:02.386) Yeah, yeah, yeah. Daniel (50:07.476) There's a great digital implementation of this. You can play it on your phone too. Yeah, Lost Cities, really a great, if you're looking for a great two player only game. Actually, this is my number one two player only game. My number two and number one are not two player only. Yeah. That's my number three. How about you? Kevin (50:11.567) yeah, lost cities. Kevin (50:26.122) Hmm. Kevin (50:30.316) Okay. Kevin (50:35.328) Well, I'm going to switch it up and it's going to be far away because that is a card game. I've only played it once and that was with you, but I really liked it and I've almost bought it. But and I think it's two player only. Is that correct? Daniel (50:37.62) Daniel (50:41.45) Ohhhh, yeah! Daniel (50:46.642) That's a great one, yeah. Daniel (50:52.746) I don't think it is, but I think it sings at two player. Yeah, yeah, I'm with you. Yeah, it's better at two player. Yeah. Kevin (50:58.186) Yes, okay, okay. But yeah, Far Away was really kind of cool. And it's not just because I won, but that always helps. There's a reason Arc Nova's not on this daggum list. Very lucky draw, it's very lucky. Yeah, Far Away, there's something with your, and it's been a bit, but like you've got cards and you're playing them, but they chain in a particular order as you play them. So you want to think about how you're putting them out. Daniel (51:05.756) It does help. Yeah. Yeah. As I recall, you crushed me. That was good. Daniel (51:16.328) That's a great game. Kevin (51:26.88) right, so that they will cascade. Is that correct? They kind of tsunami together? Daniel (51:28.956) Yes. Yes. And yeah, and it has that unique mechanism where you play your cards out left to right, but then you score them right to left. And so, yeah, you score them backwards to the order in which you play them, which is so mind-bendy. Yeah. Yeah. Kevin (51:40.97) That's what it is, yes. Kevin (51:47.489) Yes, yes. And it's a deck of cards, so that's all you need is the cards you don't need. I think it, you know, you need a bit of space left or right, but that's all you need. So that's really very portable and fun. Yeah, number three. Daniel (51:57.854) Yeah. I, that's a great game. I like that. I like, I like far away a lot. Yeah. Thank you. That's good. That's good. I connect those, I connect far away to Castle Combo. I don't know why, whether it's the same production company or not. I need to, we need to look that up. anyway, I feel people like far away tend to like Castle Combo and vice versa. anyway. Kevin (52:08.812) Hmm. Kevin (52:24.502) far away castle combos because they both have three to four syllables in them. Daniel (52:30.151) That's right, if you like one, you will like all games with three to four syllables. Monopoly. Kevin (52:39.328) Monopoly, yeah. Daniel (52:40.849) Yeah, that's right. That's right. That's good. perfect. Perfect. Well, I'm super excited about my final two because they are two of our most played games ever for Kristen and me and just two of our all time favorite games. I'm super excited about my number two and my number one. And I'm super excited to hear yours as well. My number two best two player game. Kevin (52:46.134) Yes. Okay. Daniel (53:08.541) And Kristen would say this is, I think right now, think she said it's her number one game of all time, is a card-driven game. Kevin (53:13.676) Hmm. Kevin (53:18.7) Double solitaire. Daniel (53:20.393) Forest Shuffle. Have you played Forest Shuffle? Kevin (53:26.577) I terrible at it, but I've played it a couple times and I do like it. It is cool. It is cool. Daniel (53:31.26) Yeah, yeah, we've gotten all expansions for it now. They're actually on a little shelf here to my right. It's, I just love this game. We love this game. It can play for more than two player, but we just love it at two player. Yes, so some of the cards are trees. so the first thing you do is you Kevin (53:35.948) Aww. Kevin (53:41.576) It's set collection for the most part. Daniel (53:58.782) plant trees, you put trees in your forest. But then all the other cards are either cards that are divided top and bottom or left and right. And these are different things that basically use your tree as a habitat so that you could tuck behind them. like birds might be on the top half of certain cards and you tuck them behind these trees that you've planted so that you just see the birds above the trees. Or frogs might be below the trees. So they're just on the bottom half and you tuck them below your tree. or deer might be to the left of your tree you tuck them in or European hare, the rabbit you tuck on the right. I'm always a big fan of the European hare strat, Kevin, because you can put multiple European hares on one tree and each European hare counts the number of points as European hares you have. anyway, so we try the European hare strat, but it's so cool. Kevin (54:41.548) Hmm. Kevin (54:55.306) Unless someone plays a Wendigo to your tree and then the Wendigo consumes them all. Daniel (55:01.107) the Windigo Strat. Isn't that like a mythical creature? A Canadian one? You know, that's right. The most recent expansion we got contains the very first mythical creature. It's a troll. A troll can hide behind one of your trees. Yeah. But it's just so fun. It's so fun to tuck all these animals and flora and fauna behind your forest and seeing it expand. Kevin (55:02.568) to go card. It's like a Canadian monster, yeah. It's like a chupacabra or something. Kevin (55:25.398) Mm-hmm. Daniel (55:29.937) And then of course the points are combo all together. It's this major combo fiesta. And we just love it. Forrest Shuffle is a fantastic game. Like I said, Kristen's number one game, and I think maybe my number two game of all time. Forrest Shuffle is fantastic at two player. Kevin (55:54.135) That's great. That's Castle's a burgundy and this is a four player game, but this is one we've played a lot of two player a little bit of setup, but it's just a nice. It's just a nice experience. Partly because it's European Euro type game. a. And it's yeah, and it's set in France, I guess, so it is European. But yeah, it's a Euro game. You're not beating up on each other. Somebody's going to win, but. Daniel (55:54.269) How about you? Daniel (55:58.008) yeah. Yeah, that's great. Daniel (56:16.435) Yeah. Kevin (56:23.538) It's kind of interesting how you can combo stuff. So it's just a great game. At any count, but two people. Yeah, it's a nice one. Daniel (56:28.553) That's awesome. Yeah, that. Yeah, yeah, that's a wonderful game. Yeah, yeah, we love that one, too. Have you gotten a chance to see the the new Kickstarter kind of blinged out version? Kevin (56:42.172) From a year two ago that old yeah, yeah, I have you know, it's beautiful and I said awaken realms No, I have actually used copy probably someone getting that well, there's the original and then they did An updated art and then there's the blinged out one. So we have probably someone Sold it because they were getting one of the other versions, but it's all the same game. So yeah, we just have to Daniel (56:43.549) Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, is that the copy you have? No. Okay. Daniel (56:58.163) Yeah. Daniel (57:04.371) Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a fantastic game. I love Councils of Burgundy. Cool. Kevin (57:14.092) It's strangely soothing even though it's competitive. Or I find it that way. Number one. Daniel (57:18.055) Yeah, yeah. Daniel (57:23.143) I'm so excited to talk about number one because this is a fantastic game. And Kevin, you might suspect, judging from all of my other things, that this is a card-based game. But it's This is a dice driven game. Kevin (57:45.472) Roll for the galaxy. Daniel (57:49.066) We do love that game, but it's not this one. should put the... Role for Twilight Struggle would be a fantastic game if it existed. That's a great one. Role for the Twilight Struggle of Santorini and its Imperium combo realms. No, this... Kevin (57:53.246) role for Twilight Struggle. Kevin (58:07.692) such a treaty and its imperium. Deluxe edition. with the the near away expansion. Daniel (58:20.635) I just think this game is brilliant. Fleet the Dice game. Kevin (58:27.668) right, I haven't played it, but I've heard you brag on it, yeah. Daniel (58:28.359) Yeah, have you played Fleet the Dice game? I love Fleet the Dice game. We love Fleet the Dice game. It is a roll and write, but just, which I know some people like roll and write, some people don't, which basically means you roll dice and then kind of like all the Yahtzee, you mark things on a sheet based on what you roll. But this is just roll and write done well. I'm not sure roll and write can be much better than this in our opinion, in my opinion. You have this fleet of fishing vessels that you send out, you roll dice to see what kind of fish you're talking about that day, what kind of harvest. And then there's another component to each round where you roll village dice, what you do back in the village of the fishing village, and you mark off this thing here, this thing here, and this thing here. And the genius of this game is that at certain points you get to take bonus actions and then the bonus actions allow you to mark off other things. And then that allows you to mark off other things. And so you're chaining all of these bonuses, very similar kind of to Hadrian's Wall, which I, it, it, a very similar vibe in that respect. But, Kristen and I have played just tons of, Fleet the Dice game and, it's a great, great game. Kevin (59:41.718) Right, right. Mm-hmm. Daniel (59:55.754) for two players around a table. And I say he plays in 30 to 45 minutes. So yeah, love it. That's my number one. How about yours? Kevin (59:57.215) Mm-hmm. Kevin (01:00:02.102) Hmm. Hmm. That's cool. That's cool. Me, I'm going to something I've just played recently and I like it two player because of what it achieves that is not a typical two player game because it's kind of co-op and that's slay the spire. And it's just fun because you have this sense of shared mission. Like, can we get through all three acts, which is like that's when you get to heal up and everything at the end of the act and. Daniel (01:00:18.729) Huh? it. Kevin (01:00:31.66) But what's interesting is if one person dies the game ends and you can kind of help each other you can choose so you're And I played the video game some now and that's great and that's solo only I believe but But in the board game you're basically assigned one of the monsters so you'll get attacked by two monsters, but when you're Playing on your turn you can choose to fight either the monster that's gonna hit you or the other monster. It's gonna hit your colleague your co spire slayer Conspirator and so you can kind of help so like I know like this guy's gonna hit you hard and you don't have enough shield I can try to help by attacking your guy and not my guy but then when they attack they so that I like that a lot because you can kind of try to help each other get through it and Daniel (01:01:04.153) okay, okay. Kevin (01:01:25.718) You can, I think you can exchange potions and some of the stuff will help both of you or one of you or attack the other. Yeah, so it's just some neat stuff and you have to or else the game will end. And then you get to move up the map. So I just thought that worked really well for a co-op two player dungeon crawl. Daniel (01:01:43.699) Sounds great. I really want to try that. I've loved the video game, but I've never tried the board game. How would you say the board game and video game compare? Are they? Okay. Kevin (01:01:53.227) I mean, it's pretty much the same. It's just if you want to play that with other people and you like it on a table, you should totally get it. But if you've, right? I mean, and you have a group that'll play it and enjoys it. You can play it solo. So yeah, but if you're gonna play it solo, you should probably just do the video game. But if you want that shared experience while you're hanging out, it's pretty awesome. Daniel (01:02:12.381) Yeah, yeah. Daniel (01:02:18.145) I love that's your number one. That's awesome. Kevin (01:02:19.872) Yeah, and plus you get the real tokens and you get the there's something, you know, when you get the real cards, you're like, I get to update update my deck and you get the video game. But of course, when it's tactile, it just feels like. King of the world, I'm king of the world. Daniel (01:02:27.975) Right, right. Daniel (01:02:34.727) That's right, because in the video game there are cards too. It's a card driven game in the video game. Yeah. Yeah. Kevin (01:02:40.042) Yeah, it's a card. looks the video game looks like a board game made into a video game, but it's Daniel (01:02:44.295) Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's so cool. Kind of like Dwarf Romantic, is, yeah, a video game that, you talked about the previous episode, that video game that looks like a board game, but then they made a board game based on the video game. Yeah. Kevin (01:02:48.982) Yeah, yeah, yeah. Kevin (01:02:58.528) Yeah, it just invited it. it is different though, evidently the board game, because a lot of the powers is thinking about you playing co-op with up to four people. Daniel (01:03:09.383) Wow, that's great. I didn't really see this come up here. Kevin (01:03:11.372) And it's a pricey game. thought about getting it. It's like 115 US dollars, which in metric is like 14 cents, I think, something like that. Daniel (01:03:20.393) It's 14 cents Kelvin. Yeah. Kevin (01:03:26.844) And yeah, there's a lot in the box. Like it actually seems like a fair price because you it's a big box. There's a lot of stuff in it. A lot of cards and and the way the upgrades work, you have to use the card sleeves. So you kind of sleeve them because they have a back so that way you can know which side is you've upgraded because you flip them around. So all that's just really fun. This is very tactile. Yeah, yeah, it's good. It's good. Yeah. Anyway, all right. Thanks, man. Daniel (01:03:39.277) Okay, okay. Daniel (01:03:46.981) It sounds fun. It sounds great. Cool. Well, that's a great number one. Kevin (01:03:54.005) You too. Well, I was guessing that you might have far away are castles of Burgundy and you didn't. I'm really so I botched it. I botched it. Sorry. Daniel (01:03:54.856) Well... Daniel (01:03:59.401) I'm sorry. I'm sorry. But no crossovers, which, yeah, sorry for no crossovers, but that means for our listeners, that's 15 unique games there that hopefully they found something that maybe they could play with, with someone in your life, a friend or partner, spouse. yeah, we'd love to hear about. Kevin (01:04:14.796) That's right. Kevin (01:04:19.244) That's right. Kevin (01:04:23.229) on a date, just remember if you're good at the game, don't be good at it on the date. You've been warned. Daniel (01:04:28.86) That's right, unless you want to drive that person away into a Marvel movie stardom. Daniel (01:04:38.65) A cautionary tale. Kevin (01:04:40.8) And why Disney doesn't thank me is one of life's great mysteries. Anyway, no justice. Daniel (01:04:43.441) You Daniel (01:04:47.666) Yeah, do you know, yeah, Iron Man, yeah, Robert Downey Jr. Same thing, same thing. Yeah, he was on a date. They were playing Apples to Apples and was very discouraging. The date did not pick his... Kevin (01:04:55.798) Same thing. Kevin (01:05:05.739) Right. Daniel (01:05:16.122) entry for the adjective fuzzy and he was so upset he said I'm going to be Iron Man. That's a true story. Yeah, that's, that's, that's, no, we made that's. Kevin (01:05:26.688) movie. I will never love again. I will take a metal heart and I will die almost two times in the movies. Daniel (01:05:38.47) That's right. That's right. No, obviously all made up. But yeah, yeah, yeah. That's great. I love it. Well, we would love to hear about. Kevin (01:05:40.62) because then the first, yeah. Kevin (01:05:48.511) Actually, Robert Downey Jr. He's played Scythe. Yeah, with Jamie Stegmeier and Jamie Stegmeier lost. It was really embarrassing. Yeah, strange. Daniel (01:05:52.166) Yeah, did he? Daniel (01:05:57.48) Really? That's too bad. What happened then? Kevin (01:06:03.03) Do you think Jamie would know his game better? Daniel (01:06:05.96) I feel like we're setting up a pun or a joke, but we're doing it. Okay, okay. Kevin (01:06:09.056) We're not. We're not. That is the joke. Daniel (01:06:15.642) That's good. I would like to see that. Yeah. Kevin (01:06:17.502) It would be funny to be a gay and that I just of course made that up. have no idea of Jamie Stegmaier's gaming skills. I suspect they're excellent, but it would be funny to create a game that I mean that then you play test and then you keep losing. Anyway. Daniel (01:06:24.433) suspect such a Daniel (01:06:36.606) yeah, no, that, yeah, that's true. Mr. And Mrs. Checkers were horrible at checkers. They did. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, no, they were just in it for the, for the, the fame and the money. That's right. Kevin (01:06:44.554) Yeah, that's right. That's right. Great designer, terrible gamers. Kevin (01:06:52.502) fame and for the clever mechanisms. Kevin (01:06:59.008) What if you can chop? Ooh. Daniel (01:07:01.64) That was originally an expansion, but then everyone liked it so much they rolled it. Kevin (01:07:05.76) Yeah, it was like a bumper car at first. You sort of bump them back, but then they realized if you jump, right? No kinging. Daniel (01:07:09.126) That's right, that's right. There was no jumping, no kinging. That's right. But that was, that was a checkers expansion. but they decided to roll it into the base game. That's right. That's right. Cause everybody, everybody liked it so much. There was no going back. So they accept when you're, then you can go back when you're the king. And that was the irony of it. They said you can't. That's right. That's right. That's, that's right. That's right. Kevin (01:07:17.26) It eventually got folded in. Kevin (01:07:31.116) That was Mr. Checkers' final victory lap. You can go home again. Watch me. Boom. Daniel (01:07:43.526) I think we might be the only people who find this funny. I hope maybe there's some listener out there who finds it funny too. All right. That's great. What two player games did we miss? We'd love to hear your thoughts on two player games. How could people share their thoughts with us, Kevin? Kevin (01:07:51.244) You Kevin (01:07:56.502) Good job, Daniel. That's right. That's right. Kevin (01:08:05.952) Playsavestheworld.com and we are on Instagram and you can Give us a comment. Send us a photo something like that. Let us know what you like and on YouTube Comment below like and subscribe ding Daniel (01:08:06.768) Yep. Yep. Daniel (01:08:16.326) Yep, yep. Comment below. We'd love to hear your thoughts on two player games and what would you think is a good two player game? Kevin, it's always awesome to hang out with you. My only regret is having talked about all these two player games that we're not closer that we could play a good two player game of Twilight Imperium. Spire combo. Yeah, yeah. Someday. All right. Well, listeners, thanks so much. Viewers, thanks so much for watching. We hope you get to enjoy a good two player game with somebody soon. And thanks so much for spending some time with us. It really means more than we can say. We hope you have a wonderful day. Kevin (01:08:44.78) would be great, wouldn't it? It would be great. someday. Kevin (01:09:04.438) Yes, all the best. Bye. Daniel (01:09:06.569) Bye bye.