[00:00:00] Katherine: Hey, everyone. Welcome back to reality. 2.0, I'm Katherine Druckman. I am talking to Shawn Powers and Kyle Rankin and Doc Searls who you probably know. And we're going to talk about a lot of things because you know what, this is the last episode before we take a little holiday break that we all desperately need. And by we, I mean, me so we're gonna, we're gonna keep it real casual. We're just going to talk about what's on our mind which is probably weaving. And maybe whisky and maybe Catherine, the great, but also maybe some tech stuff too. So, so stay tuned. Any ideas? Yeah, no, we have no idea [00:00:38] Kyle: ideas. Yeah. [00:00:39] Katherine: I mean, sometimes, you know, tech isn't everything, but, you know, weaving as a technology. [00:00:43] Shawn: We're keeping our ideas, private. [00:00:47] Katherine: Yes, private weaving ideas. So, yeah. So here we are. Hang out with us. Also visit us at reality2cast.com and check out all of our other stuff, especially last week's episode which was really awesome about DNS. But yeah, so, so, okay. Let's, let's go back to, um, maybe we just start with the microphone idea, because that is a real thing. So we get, we get asked a lot actually by various people and each other. About the tools that we use to produce this podcast. And one of them is how do you find a good mic? So that's relevant to everyone these days, right? Because we all spend half of our day on zoom or the equivalent. Yeah. Um, and we need, we need good sound quality because sound quality is everything. As I'm sure everyone listening, understands and agrees with, because we've had a couple episodes where we had some sound problems and we acknowledged that and we're trying to always improve. So, so, so Shawn's our microphone guru. [00:01:45] Shawn: Um, I don't know, this [00:01:47] Katherine: might be connoisseur. You're like a microphone sommelier. [00:01:52] Shawn: I've been recording my voice for a lot of years, but so has Doc, so [00:01:55] Katherine: that's true. Well, we both of y'all know, know your, know your stuff with mics. I just have a blue Yeti, hopefully it's okay. It's usually okay. Although I've had a couple episodes where I think I sounded terrible, but, um, I don't know if that was the microphone or my own, uh, User error. Sometimes it accidentally, when I had my AirPods on, it would accidentally I would switch over and it would record from the AirPods instead of the Yeti. And [00:02:23] Shawn: that's not great. Yeah. That's a bummer. [00:02:26] Doc: And then there's the happy. [00:02:28] Kyle: Yeah. And [00:02:29] Shawn: sometimes the Yeti is having a [00:02:30] Katherine: silver, [00:02:32] Kyle: the frustrating part about Mike's. I like the Yeti's red period personally, but [00:02:37] Shawn: yeah. It's tough to follow that, Kyle. So the frustrating part about a microphone is you can't just say, this is the best microphone you can buy in this price range. And it's because microphones sound different for every person. For example, Katherine, you have the blue Yeti microphone. That is a really great microphone and I hate it more than most microphones I've tried. I truly just despise the blue Yeti when I'm using it. And so while that sounds great for you, you always sound good. I mean, apart from, you know, some weird technical things a couple of times, but I mean, generally you sound really great with the blue Yeti. It's a good mic. It picks you up it, you know, it has, it carries your voice. Well, for me, it's terrible. It picks up all the background noise. I sound like I'm in a tin can, but not in a cool way. Uh, I just, I sound terrible on it and it like, I can be typing next door and the blue Yeti will pick up every click and click. But if I say something under my breath, it doesn't come through. I just, I just hate the blue Yeti so much, but that's just me. Right? It sounds great for other people. There's a reason it's a super popular microphone. So [00:03:48] Katherine: now there are other factors too, and that's part of it is your environment. If you're in a room with, you know, that is sparsely furnished and has a wood floor and you know, something like that, you might have more issues with something like a Blue Yeti, whereas I am in a room full of junk with carpet. There's not a lot of stuff for my voice to bounce around on in here. [00:04:11] Shawn: That's true. And there are, there are like two main classes of microphones. There's a condenser mic. And then there's the dynamic mic. Uh, if you've ever seen the, the plus 48 volts thing where like, you know, like, why do some microphones want the plus 48 volts? Well, that's because it's a condenser mic and it requires electricity in order to function. Whereas a dynamic mic does not. So that's the difference there. Generally, those condenser mics are more sensitive. And so a lot of times they'll use condenser mics, like in a studio setting where they want to get the nuances of, of tender voices and instruments and, you know, mosquitoes dancing in the wind. And, um, a lot of times for live performance where they're like thresh it on stage, they'll use a dynamic mic, but even that isn't the rule. That's just a. Rule of thumb if you will. [00:04:59] Katherine: So I actually, I'm sure we have more, I don't know. Maybe doc has some, some more to weigh in about the mic thing, but I already have a segue in mind in my mind [00:05:11] Kyle: because [00:05:11] Doc: my second. I noticed that Sean is using a famous Electro-Voice mic that I recognized from a zillion radio studios. Cause it's it's just a, it's a stalwart highly respected workhorse type microphone. I've got a Hile here, which is a loaner from twit, which I do the other podcast on. And Catherine does too. And. As far as I know, it sounds good. I sound okay on it anyway. It's fairly directional. I like that. But yeah, to me, that the interesting thing about Mike's is it's is, is that nobody rating headphones that have microphones with them ever rates the microphone and they vary a great deal. So for example, Apple's standard white earbuds. Used to, I don't think they, they come with phones anymore, but I'll hold one up for the people here. They can see it. There it is. You know, you plain old, $20, $29 earbuds. They have a great mic. They made it sound that great, but they have a great mic and there are other, my headphones I've had that have had terrible microphones in them. And you don't know when you buy them and nobody rates it. And that bothers me. So that's far as I'll take it. I don't know if there's a segue from there or not, but. Yeah, I'd [00:06:26] Shawn: probably put links. We can put links to our mix right in the [00:06:28] Katherine: show. Yeah. We'll definitely put links. I think we have before, but just in case anybody needs a little refresher I'll I'll add some new ones. Um, yeah. So I was actually thinking about this idea. So in thinking about what we were going to talk about today, I thought, oh, well maybe we should go around and talk about, you know, holidays and gifts and, and, and fun stuff like that. But, but then I started thinking about it and I wonder. And this group, I don't, I'm not entirely sure, but I think we are tending to not get into like geeky gifts this year. Is that just me or is that everybody else? I feel like I have all the things I don't need anymore. Um, this is the first year in a while where I think. Bent less on gadgets or I don't know. It's, it's a, it's a, it's an interesting thing. And it reminded me of, for example, Kyle's loom, like, are we all kind of re rejecting and going back to, uh, basic things like, you know, hacking around of cocktails and cooking and weaving and things like that, and taking a little bit of a mental break from technology. Is that happening? Or am I not? [00:07:40] Kyle: Are you talking about for personal, for personal one on our wishlist, or are you talking about what we would give others? Cause I mean, I [00:07:49] Katherine: have a general focus and that is, it is that is not technical this year. And I thought that was interesting both in terms of my own needs and others, but I wondered, um, yeah. How, how are y'all doing this year? [00:08:04] Kyle: You know, for me, I guess the. That. Um, I think most of a lot of my gifts are less technical. Not, it's not as a general rule, but I do think what happened was the things that have interested me most this past year, um, can be summed up either with most recently leaving. But then before that, uh, antique adding machines and calculators and things like that. And then I think that spawned an overall personal interest in antiquity. And interesting older objects that have significance than it would have otherwise in some of my gifts, which I'm sort of reflected that, you know, like where, where it's not necessarily, it's not like I'm getting anyone else, a mechanical calculator for Christmas, although it's a great gift, I would think. Uh, but, but I have in researching that sort of thing, other, you know, vintage items came up that I am. Bye. And we'll, we'll be gifts this season, but beyond that also, I'm doing a lot of the weaving I'm doing right now is weaving gifts for other people. And so I've been busier than normal in this hobby, even though I only started a few weeks ago because I have all these different now, once I did it once and saw that. It worked. And I could do a reasonable job where they have giving someone else a gift quickly. Uh, then I started doing that. So, you know, my, my very first, uh, project was a scarf for my wife. That wasn't a gift because I just wanted it. I didn't want to put the pressure added pressure of something I made being a gift to if it's, if it was horrible, but it actually turned out pretty good. Uh, also also, it's hard to do that secretly from my wife when she's sitting there watching me do this over the course of a few days. So, uh, but on the success of that, I realized, okay, well now I can make my mom a scarf. So I did. And then I had, after the success of that, I said, well, now I need to make it way more complicated. So now I will start weaving plaid, which is a whole like leveling up in about three different ways. So I did a plaid table runner for my mother-in-law, uh, That went faster than I thought I was basically budgeting all of this number to do that for most of December. And that was then relatively quickly too. So now I have spare time. So now I'm weaving something for someone else. So like, so I guess now that I have a hobby that happens. Produce things for other people. Uh, that's influencing a lot of, at least my gifts. [00:10:42] Katherine: That sounds like so much fun. I wonder, like, I, I know there are different groups of people who are in different places, as far as the, let's say their level of quarantine and believing their pandemic to be over. But I feel like no matter where you are in that process where it's, we're still very much influenced. Um, I don't know, let's call it the early pandemic period where we were all going back to learning, you know, let's say sourdough is a good example. And so we were, uh, you know, I, I did things like baking and gardening and all of these, like at home things that I was never all that into before. And I think maybe like, I wonder if there's like this collective consciousness thing, like where the next phase is going into, like, I've always been interested in old stuff, like being interested in collecting antiques or researching antiques and stuff like that. It's nothing new for me, but, but I've recently kind of rekindled a lot of that interest and I've started reading a little bit more and sort of refreshing my memory about certain things and. I dunno, it's just, I, I wonder if there's a, there's a kind of a broader social trend or something, and I don't know. I wonder to feel had any thoughts about that. [00:11:54] Shawn: It might kick me off of this episode, but I guess I think about, I don't, I don't really buy gifts for anybody. [00:12:01] Doc: We're kind of the same way we actually, we, we S we scaled back Christmas years ago. Um, and to make it more about family gathering and stuff like that. I mean, with grandkids and we used to go to Baltimore to be at our grandkids place, um, when they were small, uh, we, of course we gave them stuff, but even there, it was like, They had four living grandparents. They have lots of other relatives and their parents are very generous with them. And so our gifts for them kind of got lost in this explosion of opening presents were not a knock on them, but it really felt like, oh my God, it wasn't so much that it cheapened whatever we gave it just diminished it, you know, to, to insignificance. And so, you know, but among ourselves among, uh, my wife and I, and our, our only son together is now 25 years old. And we're not going to be having Christmas with this year for the first time. Um, you know, kind of like we're not getting anything for each other is sort of like the default, um, you know, but there's still the anxiety and. Um, sense of obligation. Some of it legitimate, you know, we still had to get something for the grandkids, got to get, um, an amaze, my sister, and then, you know, should we get something for my son and his girlfriend? They're going to her house. They should have something from us. So they're going to open up under the tree. What are they going to do? I mean, this is not high anxiety, but it's definitely something to think about. And they start thinking about the supply chain and can I get something that's actually going to arrive there? What the hell is their address? And I've no idea. Yeah. [00:13:52] Shawn: I was going to actually go into that to the supply chain. I mean, and I say, I don't get people, things my wife does. Right. I mean, my, my checkbook buys gifts for people. Um, I'm just generally not the one who's who's doing it. This year though. Yeah. With the, I mean, you know, the past few years, even before the pandemic, I mean, Christmas came from Amazon and I'm ashamed to say, um, and so this year is, is going to be, you know, we don't have any kids in our lives anymore right now. I mean, our kids are grown and we don't have grandkids yet. So that's, uh, you know, we just have adults and I think that we're not, I think we did a, we were doing a gift X week. Maybe we're doing a gift exchange, maybe not because of the pandemic again, but, um, we're like we buy a gift and pass it around and play some. White elephant thing, or I don't even know what that's called, but you know, we'll, we'll do that thing. Uh, but we don't get gifts for everybody. So, I mean, I can think about like things that I want, but I generally don't wait for Christmas time. Right. If I want something bad, I just, you know, I'm to wait until Christmas to get himself a loom. [00:14:55] Kyle: Yeah. [00:14:57] Katherine: I, yeah, I, I met to be honest. Yeah. I'm not a huge, I'm not a gift buyer, particularly either only for myself. Apparently I did buy myself a couple of nice things for Christmas. One of them was a scarf inspired by Madame de pompadour because that's a thing that I'm into and it was, uh, the French porcelain society in fact, was a. Selling a scarf. [00:15:19] Shawn: I have a weird question about something that could be a gift. Does, are you, does anybody here a Roomba person, not like an actual Roomba person, like who goes around and clean [00:15:28] Doc: any her secretly, a Rumba [00:15:31] Kyle: secretly. Does anybody have a Roomba? I do not. I do have a Roomba and that is one of my wife's most prized electronic possessions, other than her laptop, I would say to the point that. And having downtime would be a big deal. Let's put it that way. Yeah. [00:15:49] Katherine: I wanted a [00:15:50] Shawn: Roomba. So I know that you live in an older home, right? I mean, it's not, it's not a brand new home and. You must also have, maybe you don't have uneven floors where like, you know, different rooms have different dividers between them and you know, like over the years there some floors, different height than there, or is that not a case for you? Because we have an older home and we would have to get a Roomba for every room and then maybe it would be able to get around. So [00:16:17] Katherine: I have like an off-road round bed kind of like [00:16:21] Kyle: all [00:16:21] Doc: wheel drive. You know, a robot utility vehicle. And [00:16:26] Shawn: also, maybe I'm more cluttered than most people, but I think that a Roomba would like, oh, look, it's a shoe. I'm going to stand behind this shoe until somebody moves it, you know, because, so the Roomba works for you and your wife though, right? Kyle? I mean, it sounds like it's an important [00:16:42] Kyle: thing. Well, so a couple of things, one, we have hardwood floors, uh, which. When you have hardwood, floors, dust, everything, you can see all of the dirt when you have carpet, when you have carpet it's as filthy, but you can't see it until you use a, like a wetback. And then you see just how filthy everything is. Uh, but on a hardwood floor, you see everything. And so, uh, The nice thing about the Roomba, is it primarily for us? It's not something that we typically run in bedrooms or offices or things like that. It's almost strictly a common area, uh, tool. So it it's focused on the, the living room for us and our kitchen dining room area, which is, which is connected. So we can use virtual one level. When level when large, basically one large space with a doorway in between. And so we use the virtual walls. Sometimes we will focus it on a room at a time, but most of the time it just focuses on it. Does both of those rooms and we run it. We don't have it on a schedule or anything. We typically just run it every. Two days or every couple of days, uh, when we decide to now we did have one at one point with one of the original ones with a scheduler. And that was great, but that one died in the new one that we bought. Uh, didn't come with the scheduler. So, but yeah, we have, I mean, we have a number of. Back when Luke's used to sell things like that for bargain basement prices was when we started investing in rainbows. And yeah, I mean, I think they're great. They're great because they don't have to do an amazing job because you can run them again and they're unattended, you know? So it's not that if I sat there with a broom, I can obviously do a better job than a Roomba cleaning a room once, but I can also go on an errand and leave the. And when I come back, it's done it's docked and charging. And the area that I focus on is pretty good, you know, and especially for something I'm not going to be doing every other. I [00:18:48] Doc: haven't. I have a Roomba story, actually. I've never had a Roomba, but we have a house that sometimes other people use and, um, and somebody bought a Roomba to use there. Now we have, um, I mean, it's, it's hardwood floors. It was relatively new houses built in oh six. It had a scary. Rugs here and there. Um, but it shouldn't be a challenge for Ruby, except in this sense, the stairs they're open. In other words, the floor ends and then there's a cliff underneath the stair above. Right. So, so into the stairwell. So if a room. It does not detect that edge is going over the edge. And, and that's what happened. It said some, some poor person brought their Roomba and they, I remember we talked to them about it. You know, it, it, it may have trouble with this cliff right here and sure enough. So I thought that could be programmed to do this, but that's what this person really reassured us. They go down there. They're really intelligent about this. You know, apparently they handled [00:19:50] Kyle: the very first time [00:19:52] Doc: that suicidal [00:19:53] Kyle: is right over. Yeah. So they, yeah, that's the thing about them is they have all those sensors, they have cliff sensors and all these other sensors. However, it's also a thing that vacuums up dirt from your floor all the time. So all those sensors get dirty. And so there's a maintenance that you have. Yeah, besides just changing its diaper every couple of days cleaning, you know, other than that, there's just standard. You have to flip it over sometimes and clean contacts and clean all the other sensors because they're also getting dirty and filthy. And yeah, if the, if the sensor that the text I'm going over a cliff gets, uh, covered with dirt, then it does. You know, and they're a little bit better now, the very first ones we had, uh, had no sense of it at detected surfaces or borders by slamming into them at full speed. Uh, and then like, oh, there's a wall. Oh, there's a chair. And it would just hit a full speed. The more recent ones, uh, have sensors that when it sees that something's coming, it's slows down first and then gently bumps the surface instead of running into a full speed. But yeah, I think they're great. Uh, I, to the point that if, when, if, and when hours break, besides the fact that I have a spare, uh, that I can take parts from, and I've actually taken them apart and repair them a couple of times, uh, when things have failed, uh, if that weren't an option, we will be buying a new one for sure. Pretty quickly. [00:21:19] Shawn: Fascinating. How, how does it do like, so we also have. Um, how does it do on like an area rug? Will it just go up the area rug and do some carpeting or does it, it [00:21:31] Kyle: typically, if you have fringe, it will eat the fringe and get. Uh, so you pit people typically tuck the fringe. If you have French, they will tuck it underneath. When they're running the room for their, uh, for us, our carpet, our rug, that it, it is on, if you have a rug that is sturdy enough that it won't just push around the room. That's the other thing, like a very loose rug without a backing that just is very like a rag rug type thing. That's not heavy. It might push around things that otherwise the more recent rumors, I think if you were to get a new one, they're better about this. Ours is, is probably. Six or seven years old now, maybe even older than that. Uh, and it was a refurb from boots when we got it to give you a sense of the age. So it's probably a ten-year-old Roomba. Yeah. And it's with repairs and cleaning. It's still going fine, but, but it's sometimes we'll have trouble climbing. It's not that it can't climb up and it's not that it can't calm down every now and then it'll get at a certain angle where it can't be, it feels like it can't back itself out of the problem. And asks for help. That happens to me. So. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So it's fine. [00:22:42] Katherine: So I've been tempted to have a own because you know who likes vacuuming, but, um, I have dogs and my dogs are not perfect. And one of them who's very small. Will occasionally see. Somewhere downstairs and leave us a little gift that we don't find until later, because we didn't even realize she had gone downstairs and I'm afraid [00:23:04] Kyle: people will find it [00:23:06] Katherine: and they will yet they'll find it. And they will paint your whole floor is what I understand. And that is actually why I don't remember. [00:23:13] Kyle: Yeah. Now if that's, and that's the other thing is that the Roomba will get the places that you wouldn't probably sweep very well, depending on how thorough you are. Uh, if they can fit underneath it, it will go underneath whatever the thing is. Right. And so, uh, that's a good thing about it. Unless you have dogs that leave you surprises. [00:23:33] Katherine: How'd that get there and it's very tiny surprises, so I don't always see them. It's a very tiny dog anyway. Yeah. It's not a very frequent occurrence. It's just, if it were to happen. Exactly. That is exactly my fear. Only one. It would be too many [00:23:51] Kyle: times. And by the way, I'm talking about the one that acts as a vacuum, not the one that acts as a mop. I'm not necessarily keen on the mop versus. Oh, I just from practicality standpoint, because it's just, you're, you're changing the clean, the dirty water. So every single time that it's not as practical as say the Roomba, which you can usually run a few times and then dump it. So [00:24:14] Shawn: we'd also have to have one for everyone because, uh, our house does not have like one level and, you know, like through our, we have our living room and then our dining room is separated by like, Th there's probably a three quarters of an inch difference. And so then there's like a big wooden, I don't know what those things are called that you put in between rooms when there's unlevel. Yeah. And so there's no way a room would get over that. So it would be a one room only kind of [00:24:41] Kyle: thing, but I don't know. Oh, I mean, it'd be a thing that you run it in one room and then the next day. Pick it up and you put it in the other room and started and go somewhere else. And cause it's not pleasant to be around when they're running. They're kind of loud, you know? So you run them when you're not somewhere. So we, we often, you know, for spot, if there's just a, it has a little spot cleaning, most of the things. So yeah, we, we move it around where it needs to be and just, we might drop it off in the kitchen because only the kitchen needs its help. The living room living room is fine and we'll set up a virtual wall. So it won't go into the living room and just sort of sits there and cleans. Anyway, I recommend them severity. No check. [00:25:23] Shawn: I have to get my wife a vacuum cleaner for Christmas though. No matter how cool the vacuum is, that's never an okay gift for your wife. [00:25:29] Kyle: Yeah. Although I did, I did give one. I did give one to my mother-in-law for a birthday and it has been, I think it's one of the, the, her favorite presents we ever gave her. Um, it's like, it's like a new, it's like a pet. She thinks of it almost like a pet that cleans her house for her, or at least at least kind of tidy up the floor for her. So, so she was. Well cool. But, but yeah, I wouldn't recommend it being your wife's Christmas present. [00:25:54] Katherine: On that note, speaking of, uh, angry women. Um, yeah, before we started recording, we were talking about, uh, randomly talking about some television we're interested in and I feel like we need to share that with the class because that's too good. A recommendation to let slip. [00:26:14] Doc: Exactly what we've got one of those already, but [00:26:21] Kyle: yeah, [00:26:24] Doc: something you'd like to share with the class. Yeah, I think I'll join. I'll jump in on that one. I think. A great show. I think it's a, it's a satire and it's a satire on, on power politics on history, on, on sex on many different kinds of sex on war on, on, um, uh, Soap operas on theater itself. I mean, there's so many things on government, especially government and the absurdities that happen in government. Um, it, there's almost no end to it. And, and it's, you can tell all of the actors and the writers and everybody are actually having a good time with this. Um, even as some of the more course in gross, I mean, some of it is, is literally pornographic. I mean, it would, it. It's the sex in it is, is that level that is in some ways, but, but also for me as well. So, um, uh, I mean it is even, and there's some grotesque stuff too. Like there's a point where, um, a couple of children are kicking some unfortunate guys, head back and forth, like a soccer. You know, [00:27:41] Kyle: like it's not attached to it, to the person. No, not [00:27:44] Doc: attached to the person at all. It's just something back and forth. And there's our kids go home. Can I take the head? It's like that? [00:27:53] Kyle: Which like, oh, [00:27:55] Doc: I didn't get to keep the head. Uh, it's, it's, it's ludicrous in a lot of ways, but, um, and very well done. I mean, I think the act is very good. It's a comedy in some ways. Yes. And it has, it has, it is. [00:28:12] Kyle: It is funny. You laugh, [00:28:16] Doc: you laugh a fair amount in it, actually. So we enjoy it. We kind of go back and forth between that and succession, because they're both about Royal families of a sort. And, uh, um, whereas succession is basically. It's brilliantly done, but it's basically, uh, you know, it's about the, um, the Murdoch family basically, but this is, this is about it. You can tell from the subtitle, it's like an occasionally true story, you know? So that's the subtitle of it. I, [00:28:46] Shawn: I have not seen any of these. Yeah, I haven't seen the crown, even I heard the crown was really good. [00:28:52] Doc: Here's a, here's a really big problem. There seems to be an almost equal distribution of the show is between Hulu and HBO, max and Amazon prime and Netflix, and even PBS. And they all cost money. They're all going to cost your money and, oh, Disney of course, you know that Disney's in there too. An apple and apple has got it too. And we swore we, I mean, I, I was working the thing where, okay, I'm going to watch closely. I'm just going to get the free thing for this month. I'll get the cheap thing now. We've got. I don't, I don't know. Maybe you don't have Showtime. We've got them all. We, we, we have these and we're indulging. [00:29:29] Kyle: There we go. [00:29:30] Katherine: I resisted Showtime for awhile. I don't have HBO right now, actually, but I might get it because reasons, but, uh, yeah, no, I resisted. I resisted Showtime, but then Dexter came back. I loved Dexter back, you know, when it was. [00:29:46] Kyle: Yeah. Texter, Dex, [00:29:49] Katherine: period. Greatest serial killer of all time. Um, yeah, I, I love Dexter, so I watched Dexter, but yeah, no, it's crazy. This subscription thing is overwhelming. If it gets out of control very quickly. [00:30:02] Shawn: It does. I, I'm just a classic, I guess I'm just an ordinary nerd. I'm really excited about all the star Trek that's being produced now. And in like wheel of time just started and it looks like it might actually be good foundation by apple. You know, they did the foundation series. I have not watched that because [00:30:19] Doc: mother's not great. It is still not great time. [00:30:23] Shawn: So far I've seen, I've only seen one episode of wheel of time and it's, it was done really well. I was impressed. Um, so in the. Shows I really love the star Trek. And have you seen, has anybody seen star Trek, lower decks? The cartoon is one of my favorite star treks in history. It is so well done. It is an incredible show star Trek, lower decks. It's so, so good. [00:30:49] Kyle: Yeah, [00:30:51] Shawn: discovery got dark and I didn't, I haven't caught up with it yet. I heard it got really good, [00:30:56] Katherine: but, um, I lost interest in discovery at some point. [00:31:00] Kyle: I've heard it [00:31:01] Shawn: forth going back. I haven't yet, but [00:31:04] Kyle: that's what I've heard. Yeah. W w we've discussed this, I think in a previous show, but I think my favorite show that not, that's not new, but that's new to me that I only discovered it this year, since we're kind of doing a holiday or your recap kind of thing would be the repair shop. That's the show that I look forward to watching I catch up on and it's uplifting and kind of get you emotional sometimes and informative and inspired. My hobbies to substance none. Well, it was on an MPC, [00:31:36] Katherine: but now it's gone, but you can watch it on BBC. [00:31:39] Shawn: Yeah. The last episode I was on Kyle, you talked about repair shop and you talked about whiskey and I bought the whiskeys and they're good. You've steered me. You steered me, right? Uh, it was, it was great. And I also have multiple episodes of the repair shop. I have not started watching them yet, though. Yeah. [00:31:55] Kyle: If you can find it, it's worth watching. It's like many of the British reality TV shows is uplifting and positive and everyone's crying. And they're not trying to stir up artificial drama. The drama is already there in many cases because someone's bringing a family heirloom that has some amazing story behind it that, you know, that means a lot to them, but it's in disrepair or sometimes it's a family heirloom that in one case, it was given to the son who then immediately dropped it and broke it and then carried that with him for a decade, put it in a drawer and just had shame. And then their father died. And then he's finally, like, I'm finally going to fix this and kind of put the shame behind me and then they, and then they repaired it and it was amazing. So [00:32:42] Katherine: yeah, I watched all I could while it was on Netflix. And I mean, some of the stories are amazing, but some of the repairs are amazing. Like mine, you think that there's no way that you could ever get this thing back to being either functional or, or, um, you know, looking nice or whatever. And, and they just do amazing work. They do. Necessarily always preserved. They restore and they make a point to talk about the distinction, um, which is to say that they will, let's say rather than preserve an item in its non-usable state for history. Cool , accuracy it's, uh, or, you know, authenticity. They will, you know, replace things and, and refurbish and whatnot to make things work, which is interesting. The butter churn. [00:33:32] Kyle: And they always have a discussion with the owner to see which way they want to go. They sort of present, do you want us to restore this or do you want us to preserve this? You know, and they always sort of present that. And for the most part, most of these items are not. We would consider them antiques in America, but in Britain, I don't believe they view most of them as really antiques, you know, because they're only a hundred years old for the most part, uh, maybe a little bit older. So they're mostly just sort of family heirloom type things. And in many cases they want them to be repaired and maybe restore they're more willing to have them, you know, for example, put a fresh coat of paint on this item or whatever to make it look better. Or re varnish varnish, a piece of furniture that has scratches in a, that you know, where with other antique furniture you may not, or there may be other things you do. [00:34:23] Shawn: I appreciate the British take on reality shows because it's not about how horrible something can go. Like the great British bake-off. I love watching it. I haven't seen the repair. Uh, it's just, I, I enjoy it. You know, like it, it warms my heart. When I see. Yeah. Like three people taking time out of their bank to go help somebody like move their cake. And, yeah, that's just cool. And I don't know, I don't see that in American reality TV. [00:34:52] Katherine: The great pottery throw-down if you haven't seen it, it's amazing. I mean, like, I, I can't tell you how excited I got over, you know, watching these potters, make a sink or a toilet and get it to work like that is my, the perfect level of drama. And [00:35:10] Kyle: it's such a good show. It will in the drama, the drama in that show, similar to the bake-off, whether Paul Hollywood gives you a handshake is whether the manger. Is moved to tears and he loves, he loves, he loves pottery so much in the craft of making putts. And he's so proud of these individuals that he's often moved to tears, seeing what they were capable of making at the time. It's it's again, it's a very heartwarming, positive, uplifting, moving show. Yep. I [00:35:39] Katherine: love it. That's maybe I dunno, among my favorite shows. I think of all time. It's [00:35:44] Kyle: it's great. Tell me the song B is great too, but it's that the others I think are, are better. I like to swing and be as well, but I, I think I like the one's a little. [00:35:53] Katherine: And for me, it's nice to see. So the, the place where they filmed a lot of the, um, or filmed the pottery throw-down is one of the few potteries that survived because it was basically rescued. I think it was actually prince Charles among, and we're talking about royalty earlier, but I think it has foundation or something rescued this old pottery. And most of them are just lost history. They, um, uh, you know, I'm not sure when in the last 20 years they just kind of disappeared. Um, and because it's, you know, it's not particularly profitable thing I guess, to make in England, but, um, but yeah, so. Very many of these pots [00:36:33] Shawn: pretty profitable [00:36:34] Kyle: here. Um, [00:36:38] Katherine: but yeah, that's sort of iconic pottery potteries of England. Spode for example, I don't think, I mean, maybe spoke, still make something in England. I'm not sure. I used to know things like that. I don't really anymore, but, but yeah, it's, um, it all went elsewhere and yeah, so there they, things are kind of. Relics and I mean, the pottery, the potteries themselves to actual facility. So they, you know, they, they restored this really cool, um, old pottery with the old original bottle counts. And. And that kind of thing, which is, it's just not something that has been preserved very well until that's one example. I ever at least that is my understanding. There is a museum that I've actually been to, um, not far from, from there that, that, um, preserve some of the old bottle kilns and stuff like. Yeah, anyway, tangent about bottle kilns. But anyway, it's a really cool thing. [00:37:37] Kyle: Well, in terms of, but in terms of like handicrafts, have you decided on the loom, are you actually going to pull the trigger? You're very [00:37:44] Katherine: seriously considering it because yeah. I mean, it's, it's gonna it's it's, it's going to take up a lot less space than it killed. [00:37:53] Kyle: That's true. I mean, yeah, depending on which one you get. I, what what's surprised me is, I mean, maybe I shouldn't, but. Even if you want to go floor loom, if you look on your local Craigslist, I, I mean, I have, I, there's a number of a very affordable looms on Craig, on my local Craigslist. And I imagine in your area it would be similar just because people get into a hobby and then either upgrade or change or find they need something else or whatever it is. And often, especially in the case of Florida, limps are gigantic. It's sort of like. Like a upright pianos where they're either really expensive or people you can get them for free, you know, that kind of thing. Uh, it's sort of like that. So I would recommend looking at your local area, there might be people who are, you know, looking to offload one pretty affordably that's fully functional and everything else. [00:38:46] Shawn: I could get a chroming floor loom. Uh, That is 41 inches high with six pedals for 800. [00:38:56] Katherine: So when are you going to invest in a real jacquard loom?. [00:39:02] Kyle: Well, [00:39:03] Katherine: I [00:39:04] Kyle: want to come, I almost so right after our last podcast recording, I think it was, I had a lead that someone posted a free loom on Craigslist that I was the second person to contact them about. And they weren't one of the first come first serve. Craigslist people. They were the first person I talked to. I'm going to give them a chance kind of thing, which is nice. So that's fine. It wasn't like, I, I didn't appreciate it because it didn't benefit me at the time, but I also appreciate the sentiment, I guess, uh, that they wanted to give the other person the opportunity, but all that to say it wasn't a shock hard loom that they were selling. However, they were selling one. That, uh, it's called a Dobby loom. And on the site, it has all of these sort of gears and functions that in some cases you can replace with solenoids and have some level of electronic automation of now, obviously not with moving the shuttle back and forth or anything like that, but there's some level of control similar to as Jaccard loom. From this company that made this, uh, Dobby loom. And so it's like a box on the side that has gears and setting things, but apparently can also have, I mean, I'm just good judge in front of, by the pictures, but I saw other models where they replaced that with solenoids. So I was very close to, I was second in line, I guess if I had, was able to get this floor loom then yeah. At one point I probably would have looked into replacing that Sidebox with, with electronics. And it had my own Chicagoland, but it wasn't the be yet, maybe someday. [00:40:35] Katherine: I don't know. I think we might have done a spin off podcast about weaving that's our next move. Oh gosh. Um, weaving and potting and gardening and baking and all of the things that we've done since we've been there spending more time inside. [00:40:51] Kyle: I will say this is sort of one of the first years that I've been able to make. Presence of some level of quality, I suppose, to give to people, you know, that I, that I'm pleased with or that that's a major present. And I mean, it's, it's, it's definitely meaningful to me and I suspect it will be meaningful to the recipients to in much in a different way than the same exact thing. If I bought it in a store, which is not a new idea for anybody, but. It does add some extra little something to the gift. I think that makes us both special to me. And I'm sure to the person I'm giving that makes me want to do it a lot more, I guess like I'm, I'm finding myself wanting to spend more time. For future gifts, I suppose, and sort of planning ahead. And like I said, I have imagined a lot of other people who do handicrafts or anything like that have already experienced this a long time ago and I'm just sort of new to it, but I definitely see the appeal and definitely appreciate it more than I suspect that it's the kind of thing that if I give people the right stuff, it's something that they will probably appreciate and hold onto as well. [00:41:59] Shawn: It's also way to get around the issues with supply chain problems, right? I mean, if you're making. You're the [00:42:04] Doc: supplier. You are the chain. Yeah, [00:42:07] Kyle: yeah, yeah. And it's going way faster. These projects are going way faster than I thought. I figured it would take all months to make a plaid table runner because plaid is incredibly complicated to weave, at least for me as a beginner. Um, but it actually turned out to not be so bad and not be as time consuming as I thought it would be. So things, they, the projects go really fast, like a scarf in a weekend kind of thing, you know? So if you can make a scarf for someone in a weekend, that's not a bad turnaround time for a present for someone that they will probably, you know, if they like scarves and you do a decent job will appreciate for a long time, if you use good materials, then it's a fairly valuable gift. So. Yeah. And they won't throw it away. Someone made it by hand, you know, it's more [00:42:56] Katherine: I baked gifts one year, like for everybody. And that was back when it was back when we had more living family. But yeah, there were, we were, we had a whole like, you know, holiday baking, huge production at the time, actually, lots of boxes. No, no, I did not poison them. No, they loved it. It was great. There were, um, chocolate cherry, something cookies that were lemon bars that were amazing. Can't remember the other things we made, but yeah, we, we boxed them up all nicely. They looked all like cute bakery. S but it was, I don't know, every once in a while I get a crafty. Yeah. And decide to do something all out like that. And it was great. I want lemon bars, they were so good. And it's like really good lemon bar anyway, but yeah, I think that kind of thing. And I just, yeah, I think it coming full circle from the, from earlier in the podcast. I wonder if the pandemic sort of pushed people back into that mindset a little bit more than when we had been recently. And did that for me and wondered if I'm alone in that it [00:44:06] Shawn: did make people more bored. So they did things that they used to not do [00:44:12] Kyle: well [00:44:13] Katherine: weird, like survivalist thing or something. I don't know. But like I'm literally growing plants everywhere. I mean, you can use say that like, look at this, I'm growing, like all kinds of hold on. I have this growing on my desk, like it's kind of. Yeah, it's dill, when this is savory a little bit, and there were some rogue chives. I don't know how those got in there, but it looks kind of wonky, but it's alive, you know, and that's not something I had been able to do for most of my life. So, [00:44:43] Kyle: well, I mean, I think, you know, people being cooped up in their homes did a couple of things. One. They were bored and they, so they started doing things to pass the time to, they were freaked out about supply chain things. So like, oh, I went to the store, it was out of bread. I need to make sure that never happens again. Therefore I will start making bread. Uh, it so started doing that. But, but then also I think, you know, tying into the holiday. So I think also people were surrounded with their stuff and buy their stuff. All day long every day and looking at all their stuff and their stuff was in the way, and they weren't escaping their stuff very much. And when you're living like that, it starts causing you to question your stuff. I think. And so, like, I really liked this thing, but I really hate this other thing. Why do I even have this thing? And it's, I need more room or whatever I need to get rid of this thing I don't care about anymore. So [00:45:31] Doc: that's a model. One of my favorite lines from George Carlin is called a it's from his album, a place for my stuff. And it's worth looking up on YouTube or something, but the one-liner from it is, have you ever noticed that everybody else's stuff is shit and all your shit is stuff, you know, that's. [00:45:54] Katherine: Yeah, it was, that was that the summary that the episode summary right there. [00:46:01] Kyle: I mean, [00:46:02] Doc: everybody else's stuff is shit and all my stuff is shit of stuff. I got [00:46:07] Kyle: a lot of stuff here. [00:46:09] Katherine: Great stuff. I have too much of it, but I do enjoy my stuff. Um, yeah. So, so on that. I'm really impressed by all the listeners. Who've made it this far because you must have similar nerdy interests to the rest of us. Um, any, do we have any other parting words since where I think at about that time, although we did get started a little late, but I think that's fine. [00:46:32] Kyle: Just, [00:46:32] Doc: you know, Mary happy, everything. Yeah. [00:46:36] Shawn: And if you don't want to make anything, you can always buy spot plus use for me, hopefully by the time I actually have a place you can buy the [00:46:47] Katherine: actually. So [00:46:48] Shawn: that'll be good pressure for me. Yeah. No supply chain issues. I literally have them and I will mail them unless you're in another country. And then it could be a problem. But in the us, they'll get to you before Christmas. So, [00:46:58] Katherine: yeah, stay, stay up, stay up all night and get that set up because we won't include the link and we will tweet the crap out of it tomorrow. Right. We'll schedule [00:47:07] Kyle: them. So I don't forget [00:47:12] Shawn: coffee. No, I wouldn't say listen to them. Say it really. And they say like, COVID. But it has a cup of coffee. Get it. No, no. I'm with you. But I went to their site to hear them say it in their video. [00:47:27] Kyle: And I put, what are you talking about? [00:47:32] Katherine: The guy who invented it, calls it Jeff, because that just bothers me. Um, I'm team. Jeff. I'm not draft fix whatever. [00:47:41] Shawn: So anyway, but yeah, that's where it'll be because they have a storefront [00:47:45] Kyle: there. Okay. And then we will link to it. Oh [00:47:48] Shawn: yeah. Also. Painfully expensive and I'll make about 12 cents from each one. Yeah. Just say, no, I'm not [00:47:58] Doc: getting rid of volume. That's how that goes. That's the problem. Yeah. [00:48:02] Shawn: Yeah. But [00:48:03] Katherine: they're so cute that they're totally. They are cute. I can't speak for experience cause I don't have money yet though. I will. I think, I think that's how that works. I'll get mine with them when everybody else gets there and we'll all celebrate together. It'll be great. [00:48:16] Shawn: That'd [00:48:16] Katherine: be awesome. [00:48:17] Shawn: There's no restaurant Merry Christmas, everyone. They work for any holiday. [00:48:24] Kyle: Yeah. [00:48:25] Katherine: New years. Happy new year gifts. [00:48:27] Shawn: That's right. If you have a birthday in December, you know what, it'll work for that too. I do, [00:48:31] Kyle: actually. I noticed that. Yeah. Yeah. [00:48:36] Katherine: Cool. Well, um, cool. Thanks everyone. Have a, have a happy whatever. And, uh, we will see, we will, yeah. In January where we will have some really cool stuff lined out. I bet we'll talk about DNS somewhere. I bet that that [00:48:49] Kyle: happens. Oh yeah. That's very [00:48:52] Doc: exciting. DNS. Yeah. [00:48:59] Katherine: Um, yeah, so, so, so on that note until, until next year. [00:49:04] Kyle: Okay. Until next year, next year. Goodbye.