The Hardtech Podcast
Lexia Solutions (Uplift) with Jeff Runnels
Hosts: DeAndre Harakas & Grant Chapman (Glassboard)

Auto-generated transcript, lightly cleaned for proper nouns.

[0:05] Welcome to the podcast.

[0:09] And everybody, welcome back to The Hardtech Podcast. I'm your host, DeAndre, here with my usual suspect, Grant Chapman. Thanks for joining, everyone. We got the usual host back finally. So I had to do a guest one without you yesterday.

[0:19] I know, I can't believe it. So, yeah, if you guys have been following along, we're currently in season three. Season two. We did 42 different episodes of founders and product leaders all across the country. I think we're already up to 57. Grant. I really can't believe it. It keeps going. People are, you know, listening to it now and it's becoming more and more fun.

[0:35] But we have a super exciting guest in the building with us today: Jeff Runnels, the founder of Lexia Solutions and the inventor of Uplift. Welcome to the show.

[0:48] you. Thank you for having me. Thank you for driving in person. There are always way more fun in person. Absolutely.

[0:52] You know, a trip to Indy be fun. You know, it's not too terribly hot. It is warm, but,

[0:58] you know, nice and will get away, so that's fine. So Jeff, whenever we first jumped on, I'm super excited about this one for a few reasons. One on our first intro call was like one of the first intro calls I've taken where I was just, like, almost emotionally compelled to continue to root for for the company.

[1:14] But whenever we first kicked off our first conversation, you said it all started in elementary school. So that's kind of where I wanted to kick off the conversation today.

[1:21] So go yeah, yeah. Elementary school. So I never actually driving up here. I'd heard of it being said, this is I was a takeout student or a pull out student where I would get taken out of regular classes to get special help.

[1:33] So there's a teacher, Miss Felker, and I got special help with reading and spelling and and so I was in the slower group that would classify the groups red, yellow and blue and the teams. Right? Exactly, exactly. So I was in the blue group, you know, they didn't want to say the slow group, but it was, you know, we were more of Miss Felker.

[1:52] Students were in the blue blue group. And so we I was taken out. And so, you know, whenever it would rain, they would do like special games inside to get us engaged. And there's one time, like the quiz bowl type thing, it's like jeopardy or Family Feud. And so I would watch the History Channel on the weekends instead of like, cartoons.

[2:12] Cartoons are kind of boring. And I just like this really happened. This is fascinating. And so I just remembered everything that I watched and fast forward was asked to be in Quiz Bowl and after school and got to that first practice. And this this girl said, what are you doing here? Like, you're you're dumb, you're in the blue group.

[2:30] And I was like, whoa, now I never, I never considered considered that. I just thought that I was maybe learned a little slower than others. And and so that kind of stuck with me for a while. And I was always wondering, you know, if I had what it what it took, what it takes, you know, do I have value?

[2:51] There's something wrong with me, you know what I mean? And so that started a journey of, of, you know, filling, having that feeling of being left out kind of being the shadows. And.

[3:04] Yeah, that was my experience you jumped from. Oh, no. The reason I asked that question was because I think it kind of really played into what became Uplift and Lexia Solutions for you.

[3:15] I know you had the relationship with with a friend of yours in school, and then you're sitting down and kind of kind of paint the picture of the setting where you're in the bar with your now wife, bliss.

[3:25] Yeah, absolutely. She we were at a restaurant and she was somewhat a patient of hers who not personal information, but that she had a patient that used a wheelchair and she had never experienced, you know, providing anesthesia in these certain several cases.

[3:40] And he was awake. And anyway, she was just telling me that everyone in the O.R. was just kind of inspired by all of everything he had going on. But his he was his attitude was so contagious. And I was sitting there at this hot top table thinking about, man, I bet I could learn a lot from someone who uses a wheelchair.

[4:02] I didn't know anyone who used a wheelchair, and a close friend of mine actually spoke with him on the way up here. How little he and I became good friends in high school and he has autism. And so anyways, what I learned with my relationship with him is, first of all, I was outgoing, class favorite, and loud and obnoxious and but in school.

[4:25] But I feel like how was the only person you really knew me? You know what I mean? I could be myself with how and whenever we would go to church and different things outside of school, thinking about anticipating what that situation may be like for him and how to like, be there for him and support him. And and so I thought about how after my wife told me about that patient, I was like, man, how did I develop that relationship with how is a lunch with him every day at school?

[4:53] And so I said, what do you do with anyone? You know, we break bread, you get a drink and good coffee calories. Exactly. Yeah. And so I was looking around where we were eating and I said, man, if you're in a wheelchair, there's literally nowhere that you could sit like in my eyes. And to be equal and I line of this conversation.

[5:12] Right, exactly. It's just like whenever someone walks in, you know, if you're able and like, you stand up to greet them, you know, there's something dignifying about looking someone to I. You know what I mean? If we were to have this conversation, I'm sitting in a stool. It would be different, you know, be like, what? You know, why am I being looked down on or you're.

[5:32] I'm looking down on you. It's

[5:34] it is. It's crazy how like that subconscious human body language can be emulated by positioning, right. If you're looking down on someone because you're judging their ideas and things like you naturally do look like down on them, well, but if you're sitting in a different place than them, it can be conceived that way, even if you're the most friendly person

[5:50] in the world.

[5:50] Right? Yeah. And so and that's, that's a reality that, you know, that if you use a wheelchair, you know, you're in a lower position most of the time. But one thing that someone told me and I recognize, I'm a father of two, and we were at the beach and my wife sent me this Instagram post about whenever your toddler wants, you know, they always reach like, pick me up, right?

[6:09] And it said, if they reach for for you to pick them up, get down on their level and like get down. And what what you'll notice is that they don't really want to be picked up. They just want to be on your level. They want to look at you. I, you know, and feel like, hey, I'm here, you know?

[6:25] And so with Uplift that that's our vision. Initially it was like, man, like, I want to if you're in a wheelchair, you can't really sit at a bar, like you can't sit in a hot top table. These are the ways that the design trends and architecture have shifted towards this. And most people don't think about what that means for accessibility.

[6:48] And so we're trying to do something that takes that this new design, emerging technology, new technology and old technology

[6:59] and just lift people up. And I love the concept behind it that this isn't trying to because, again, ADA compliant would be really hard on establishments to retrofit a beautiful historic building that you want to open a restaurant and or a bar and can be really hard to go meet the requirements that are put on you.

[7:17] But your product doesn't need any of that externality. It truly is the device that brings the accessibility to wherever that person is going to be. And for me, that was like the instant when I saw your website. I was like, that is so clever.

[7:30] Yeah, we don't have to bring bar stools, you know, I don't have to bring a fold up chair when I go to a concert in a venue.

[7:38] I have a seat there. And so, yeah, I'm sure we'll get to the ins and outs of of what Uplift does and how we impact that.

[7:45] But I love that you're you didn't set out to build infrastructure. You said out to build something that meets the person or their app. And I

[7:51] thought that was just so cool. Yeah, I've felt that like I've felt that before.

[7:57] And unless you've been there, like, it's really hard to understand, like what that does to you as a person, you know, just like whenever you're a kid in the playground and you aren't picked your pixel ass, like, you know, that does something to you. And so just, just we want to make sure that people know that their loved and

[8:18] that there's that they have a seat at the table.

[8:21] I'm coming from the kid that was in witness protection program. It still is. Yeah. Picked last for dodgeball is.

[8:28] Jeff. You told me the story when we first jumped on and we were chatting about the podcast. Imagine you're going to a concert and you're in line as you usually are. But whenever you go into the concert, imagine having to take off your shoes and then

[8:41] put on the shoes of the person behind you. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah.

[8:45] So what what I was getting to is there's typically an access, there's like a communal approach to access. And then there's a clinical approach to access, clinical approach to access says anytime that individual encounters a barrier, we want to make sure that they have something that they can overcome it. Right. Which is great. But what we're doing with Uplift is kind of a mixture of both.

[9:05] It's more of a communal approach to where community, communal approach says anytime there's a barrier, let's remove it. So anybody that faces it doesn't have to encounter. But what Uplift does is these are in spaces that are or standing is a part of the experience. And having that I'll on a side of standing. And so the comparison would be people have said what about those wheelchairs that lift up, you know, you can just have, you know, whenever you get there to a venue, you can just get one of those chairs.

[9:34] And I would ask them, what if whenever you went to, I'm from Nashville, went to Bridgestone Arena or Nissan Stadium, and they asked you to take off your shoes and put on the shoes of the person in front of you, and the person behind you puts on their shoes, your shoes, and then you go the concert for the rest.

[9:52] That's essentially what you know, we're asking. Whenever we ask a person who uses a wheelchair to transfer in any public, you know, experience,

[10:02] and it's even more so because it's one of those things like half these places are outside where it's hot. But what people who don't use wheelchairs don't know is they're not rigid seats. You can't sit in a hard plastic seat.

[10:13] There's no like a easy sprayed on wipe down seat that you can sit in when you're in a wheelchair user. They have padding and they have cushions that it's hot. You're going to sweat through it. This is like going to the bowling alley and having to wear bowling shoes without socks

[10:26] on. I think that's like we're insoles, right?

[10:28] I mean, right. Yeah. And it's just it's everyone's been in it and there's no way to clean it. It's different, you know. And so each of us in y'all live in Indianapolis. Y'all encounter different things in the winter than I do in Nashville. It's just different, you know? And so we want to make sure that folks that have differences, that

[10:46] they don't have to feel different.

[10:48] You. Yeah. Well and I love this. You're blending this line of we could provide everyone that stand wheelchair. Right. But that's asking them not only to wear the shoes, the guy in front or behind them, but also transfer. I have a couple of friends that grew up in wheelchairs, and some people have a different reason they're in a wheelchair and transfer is not that hard, right?

[11:07] They have enough upper body strength and coordination to move, and it's like a two minute exercise. That's right. I had a buddy who had Mis, and to get him from his wheelchair to anything that wasn't his wheelchair took two people,

[11:17] right. And it wasn't it wasn't a pleasant experience. Right. It's different for everyone. And that's the thing is, that's what we've tried to build with, with Uplift is with all of these universal design principles.

[11:27] There are things that we included that we didn't have to, but we knew that in order to remove barriers, we didn't want to create another barrier by not being able to accommodate

[11:38] everyone. Right. You will. Mobility device. It's more of the concept of not including as many as you can. It's not excluding exactly right. It's not as can we hit 95% of the is like no, like what is the thing we have to do is anyone that rolls up to this?

[11:54] That was a fun but not intended that it comes up to this. This situation feels like it was made for them. Exactly. Yeah. And exactly right. So we've talked about the product and everyone listening doesn't know what it is. And everyone near the table thinks it's awesome. So can we unpack what the product is for us. So so what did you say?

[12:11] What have you set out to build? Let's go talk about the product. And then I can't wait to figure out how did you get there?

[12:15] Yeah, absolutely. I do want to kind of go through this spill on the ground floor. That kind of paints like a broad picture of. All right. So if you were to what's the arena y'all have here Lucas Oil but the smaller one.

[12:28] So game bridge Fieldhouse. Yeah. Game Bridgeville House. Right. Let's just say bridge. It's easier to use those words or any arena in any town. If you were to go to any arena and sit on the ground floor for a concert and you're in a wheelchair when the concert starts, what does everyone do? They stand up. They stand up.

[12:43] Right now, those ADA sections for a typical arena occupy about 45 traditional ground floor seats to provide access for 1488 seats and companion seats. And so if you're in a wheelchair, you sit in those ADA sections. You can have one person that sits with you. And so although whenever the concert starts, you aren't seeing anything. And so ultimately, having the ability to go to a show with friends and family is really not on the table right now.

[13:15] It is friend or one family. Exactly. And so and not only that, the venue is losing because these seats are under utilized because of a lack of view. And and within the ADA, the ADA actually considers that an alternative because the ADA requires an unobstructed line of sight over sending spectators and equal dispersion. And so with Uplift, what we're able to do is with our ClearSight, seating system is restored, 45 traditional ground floor seats right off the bat and disperse Uplift, which is a relocatable vertical platform with a large travel suitcase that's flipped over sideways like a hot dog.

[13:54] It's on wheels, battery operated, and it unfolds to a compact platform, and what that allows us to do is disperse wheelchair accessible seats. ADA seats into every section of the ground floor as needed. And so what that does is it gives the venue the flexibility to sell more seats. And the not only that, provide a level of access that meets the minimum requirement and offers, that allows a venue to to treat this whole demographic with a VIP experience that they really haven't had many opportunities and many tools to do that.

[14:31] And so with this ClearSight seating system, we can increase revenue anywhere from the tune of round 2 to $2.8 million over five years, just by increasing wheelchair accessibility on the ground floor. And so and then into luxury suites. If you're in a wheelchair, the only place you can sit is at a hot top table or at the top of the steps, even ones that provide a cut out where you can will forward that row of seats in front of them.

[15:00] If they stand up at all and their view is obstructed, then that is not meeting the minimum requirements. And so the ADA requires that unobstructed line of sight access to an area serving food and drink. So if you're in a wheelchair and you want to sit at a hot top table that's not accessible right now, and then if you sell over four tickets, you need at least one wheelchair accessible seat per luxury suite.

[15:24] And so there really hasn't been a readily achievable solution to even make those accommodations possible. And so Uplift comes along and we can will in without any construction need. It will end and Uplift in less than a minute. Allow wheelchair user to be lifted up and sitting at that hot top table, and they don't have to worry about if the person in front of them stands up because they're at that standing high.

[15:49] And this is my my favorite like narrative of why your business model works. You were weaponizing capitalism to make Alcoa happen. The honors Herbie say this time and I'm sure you knew this company, this podcast, but this is what you're doing. You're making a business case because arenas that you're going to make them more revenue, allow them to sell more tickets, more and more and more capitalism, all while providing a better experience for the people that need accessibility to make it equal in opportunistic for everybody.

[16:15] And this this combination of capitalism, altruism is what makes you what I think, very successful from from a product perspective, when you set out to do this, because so many great altruistic products that offer accessibility or good for the planet or whatever, problem solving is good for humanity, right? Doesn't have a great capitalistic case. They can make more money not doing that, but you're actually allowing them to make more money and be better,

[16:40] right?

[16:40] Well they haven't there hasn't been any alternative. And so and not only that but you know, serving. You know, studies have shown that the companies that go out of their way to show that they're including people that have been traditionally in the shadows, people are going back to them more so than they are. I mean, I could send you all I get, you know, been doing research for the past ten years about this stuff, and recently the trends are just

[17:07] phenomenal.

[17:08] I would agree with that. I think one of the things that Grant brought up earlier around the ADA, I kind of would talk a bit about that because I got really excited from a go to market perspective on you gave you talked about that, you know, previously, like you mentioned, it was hard for these organizations to meet the ADA standards.

[17:26] There wasn't anything that allowed them to do that that wouldn't include like a remodel or what have you. But what you guys have introduced changes that narrative and kind of talk about what that means.

[17:35] Yeah. Right now there's everyone is is in compliance and everyone is doing everything they can because Uplift isn't in the market. We had a call with one of the leading ADA experts that consults with a lot of these venues across the country, and the comment was giving something about like, it's there's no such thing as being able to do that with what Uplift does.

[18:00] And so what we're able to do is these regulations in areas of public accommodation, you know, if it's not readily achievable to remove, meaning what they would have to do now is essentially raise the height of the entire stadium by two feet, so that in their luxury suites, they can offset the the height of that first row of seats to be high enough to where a low cut table would have an unobstructed line of sight.

[18:28] And then not only that, they would have I mean, on the ground floor, there's really no way to provide an equivalent facilitation of access with with without discriminating either. You're not without either sacrificing your view or companion seats. So like right now, if you want to go to a concert and you use a wheelchair and so on the ground floor, you can but then you can will over, I guess, near your friends, but you're still not going to be able to see.

[18:56] Right. And so even the raised platforms that take up a lot of space and you're still separated, you know, there's really no other alternative to solve that. And so with, with what we do is we provide an equivalent or section 103 of the ADA, which is equivalent facilitation, which essentially it states there's nothing in the ADA that prevents a new solution from that provides better or equivalent access from removing an old solution.

[19:26] Yeah, exactly. And so and so once we're in the market and available, that's kind of how it activates, sort of like the swimming pool lifts. Is that the direction that you were. Yep. Yep. Yeah. And so you've seen the swimming pool lifts right. So they were invented in the 1980s. Right. So the swimming pool and all these areas of Uplift provides access to they're called areas of public accommodation.

[19:46] And so the swimming pool and up until March 15th, 2010 was not the actual inside of the pool wasn't considered an area of public accommodation, only the surrounding areas of the swim, the restroom, all that stuff. And so with the ADA minimum standards update, they said, now you have to provide access to the pool, right? And so they gave them two years since this was a new standard, construction was involved, permits, etc., etc. they gave them two years.

[20:16] Excuse me to purchase and install these swimming pool lifts. March 15th, 2012. Fast forward two years. 70% of the public swimming pools purchased and installed these lives.

[20:28] That's a pretty good number. I mean, that's a lot more than I would have expected for in two years. It's solid. Yeah. That's cool. It's solid.

[20:34] And so the question I typically transition to is is how much revenue does swimming pools typically generate.

[20:42] Not not much unless you're a casino or like a swimming pool or a gym. Right. Yeah. Or park or and so in the ADA they have tiers of access accessing goods and services like tier one. Right. So Uplift provides access by means of equivalent facilitation to tier one barriers of access that have been signed into law about 30 days before I was born.

[21:07] And so unlike the swimming pool lifts, that was a new regulation. These have been in the books. And not only that, Uplift doesn't require construction. And so the time that a venue for a place has the ability to to provide this access, they don't have to wait for a renovation. They don't have to wait for a new construction.

[21:30] They can

[21:30] integrate it into their current system. And this is what I think it's cool that you and I were saying here, like, this is an infrastructure. It's a product, right? And you can buy as many of them as you need for your community, for the average, you know, wheelchair user base that comes to your venues wills, you can put them in historic buildings without having to change that or get the permit around the 80 because it's a store, so you don't need it.

[21:54] It's these. It allows you to do all the altruism things while being very capitalistic efficient, which I think is just magic,

[22:01] right? It's going to encourage use. Absolutely. And one of the things that's really important, what color is, is building a safe product. And so we've been working with a private company here. Interject. We're working towards UL and CSA, ULC safety certification, which is one of the highest standards of safety that you can region.

[22:20] And having a product like this that is safety certified is something that not only for us, we don't want to put a product out there that's not safe for our customers, the authorities having jurisdictions where they're going to be operating in and the users. We want to give them the confidence that every time they lift that thing up, it's going to get them back down, you know?

[22:42] And so we've been spending working over the past three years with them refining that. How do we make this thing as safe as possible. And we're a few weeks away from the final test. And it's fun

[22:55] and congratulations and condolences for the therapy you may need after doing you everyone's first ride through, you all started. It is like you're like, I need to read every fine print and every eye and everything because it's it's UL is a it's a fun journey.

[23:08] The first time

[23:09] it is I was the people in our tech have been amazing. They have been very gracious with me. You know, initially I could tell they were getting frustrated and I was very green and I didn't know a lot. And they've been incredible to work with.

[23:22] Well, it's one of those cool things that when you get to the end of it, you realize why it's all there when you're first.

[23:27] Like, I have no idea why this one test matters. Like, come on guys, like, how is this going to work? And then you realize the cascade effect of why that test is there. Oh, that test there to make sure that this thing never happens, that would cause these other two things to become dangerous. Exactly. It's not it's never one step away.

[23:42] All the one step failures. Like I see the reason we're testing this. Yeah, it's the two and the three. And until you've done enough, we're like, oh, I've seen how these things changed. The thing I don't want to play with anymore.

[23:50] Exactly. Yeah. And you know, we're it's not rocket science, but we are lifting someone's child, brother, sister and mother.

[23:58] And so we want to just like if I were to put my family member on there, I want to have make sure they have that same confidence.

[24:05] One of the things I was curious was the two questions. The first one is around. You got a pretty unique story on, just like the product development journey that you went on.

[24:13] You might you worked with the group and there's some there's some Aurion Gory details there. Grant thinking you're going to kick out of that one always happens and PTSD coming in here. Honestly that journey I believe it. And then and then to kind of get it give us an update on like when is the projected wins this thing coming on to onto the market.

[24:31] So kind of that specific kind of getting this thing out and kind of the lessons learned there. Well,

[24:35] I'll tell you this, you know, coming into a place that has all these, you know, engineers and stuff, I love it. You know, unfortunately, my journey included a season that created a lot of trauma. There's a place in Asheville I'm going to leave names out because, you know, it's water in the bridge.

[24:52] I learned a lot. You know, I'm and lost a lot of money, but sometimes that's how you learn, you know? And so anyways, went to them whenever I had this idea and was working 72 hours after I had the idea, I met with patent attorneys, had no idea what I was doing, and then they said he found this.

[25:11] And I was like, all right, let's do it. Yep. After ADA and those are free, right. Patents are yeah, they are $0. That's right. They are free. Yeah. And so, you know, I'm not sure if it was sales, but you know, they brought up an ADA defense attorney and you know litigator. And it could have just been sales honestly.

[25:30] Now this guy came in and looked at it and said, hey, if you build this you've got something and this is needed. You need f. And Patton is gracious. Let's do it. No, no. What do I do? You know, sign me up. It's kind of how the journey started, but, you know, working with them, it's kind of one of those places that I'm a person of faith.

[25:52] But unless you ask me about it, I'm going to live out my faith and how I live and how I treat other people. They had things written throughout the place that made you think that, like, they were people that were, you know, people of conviction, you know?

[26:09] Yep. Integrity. The. Yeah. And corporate values. Buzzwords printed on the wall.

[26:16] Yes, yes. And one that I would can resonate with. And man, I wanted it to work with them, you know, took out another mortgage on my house and it got to a point to where, you know, I was going there every morning, every afternoon saying, hey, what are you doing on my project? Because like, it's been weeks and nothing's happened.

[26:41] And just so I can understand the pictures frame, the questions I may ask is like, was it a timing materials, fixed bid or retainer? Like were your were you expecting a fixed outcome or were you paying for chunks of

[26:54] time? Well, I paid for a fixed outcome. That is how the story happens. Yep. Exactly. And so, you know, ultimately, I had a crossroads.

[27:07] Said, do you know, do we I received some some counsel. And, you know, it's something that we could have sued them. And they said either you sue them or try to work it out. And I said, well, let's try to work it out. Big Beatles fan. Anyways, for some reason, that song just anyway. So I met with him.

[27:25] I said like, hey, I want to figure out what you have going on so that you can allocate your time better. And like, people can do things and knock things out versus kind of running around like crazy and met with him for would go in there every day for like 2 or 3 weeks and like towards the middle of that or beginning of that third week, there were people bouncing, you know, banging on the door.

[27:50] And I was like, hey, we should get that. And I noticed, like, he was like, call me whenever you get here and I don't want the door. And I was like, it's never locked. Yeah. And so there were people banging in. No, he didn't answer. And then I reached out to some other clients that I met that he was working with, and they said they told me kind of their story.

[28:09] And I was like, I'm so sorry. Like, I know idea. And so what was happening? Well, there were some, some great companies, like ones that are helping people that, you know, was still born babies and being able to serve those families, to be able to be with their child for more time. You know, I, you know, gave a written statement after David for that couple that was, you know, they poured their life savings and to develop this product and, and so signed that affidavit and then this other company that actually, you know, we're actually working with now, you know, they said they won't release our stuff.

[28:53] And so whenever I had it drawn up that I was ceasing working with them. I had a buddy of mine came with the U-Haul and I said, you know, our prototype. Yeah, this is this is coming to an end. I'm really sorry, but I'm just going to move on. And, you know, kind of just like, kind of shut that chapter.

[29:09] You know, I didn't want to go back and try to fight with him like he had enough going

[29:12] on in the to tell the other side of the story. So I've been the developer on the other side of the story who fixed bid products in the past? Yeah. And the answer is none of us, even the people that are way better than I am, that have been doing this for twice as long as I have their careers.

[29:27] Know how long? That much? Oh no, you can't. You cannot have this crystal ball. There is no answer. All of our clients. How long? How much? First question. Maybe. Second.

[29:35] We don't know what we don't know. That's what I'm learning. And so 100%. And we're going to learn more together. And the more that we learn, we don't know.

[29:42] We're going to learn things we need to learn. Yeah.

[29:44] It's you start out with a bunch of unknown unknowns, right? And then you get really happy when you have a lot of known unknowns and you get to party when you know all the. No, that's not the transition of knowledge. Exactly. This journey of product development as a company, we started Glassboard when I was a child.

[29:59] Yeah, like we were we literally dropped out of college to join a startup. And that found around the money. We had a blast and we went back to college kind of and started our first business. But we didn't know how to raise venture capital. Sure. So we started consulting to to get money to put into our company. Yeah.

[30:13] So drew in our consulting to build these like go karts, my basement. And it worked out. People paid us money and cars. Now the go karts never really took off. We sold enough to not starve to death. That ramen noodles was getting pretty tiring. So we like we should just do consultant for making more money doing that. And that became Glassboard.

[30:28] But when Glassboard was officially formed, I was 25 years old. Yeah, I was a kid. Sure. And we wanted to set out to fix bid projects. We were like all of our competitors tell their clients, I don't know how long or how much it's just going to be, you know, this many dollars an hour. And we thought there had to be a better way.

[30:42] And we learned we were wrong and they were right. And so we fixed bid things and ended up working for like, way less than minimum wage. Yeah. For some of our clients, we felt compelled to deliver voice that we were gonna do. Yeah, sometimes it worked out and we could work ourselves hard enough to make it work and sometimes got lucky and we guess right.

[30:58] Yeah, but there were a lot of times where we'd get to the end of our rope. Right? Our equivalent, our project is $3 an hour. We have to call it quits. Like, man, like we didn't make it for you,

[31:07] right? And it's tough. Yeah. Also, just coming to a point of of of recognizing kind of like when, you know, it's time to move on.

[31:16] Like, you know, we're debugging stuff and and, you know, that's one thing that we've learned is like, we have to like we're running into one thing. And you know, that's part of it. You know, if you haven't created something and product development is not a part of your journey, you're going to be very impatient and be very angry.

[31:32] And like what? You didn't tell me about that? Not well, I

[31:36] didn't know, you know. And so you said this was going to work. I said, I thought this was going to work, and we had to build it and then test it to find out that I was wrong. Right. Yeah.

[31:44] And also, like, once I'm a big fan of new mistakes.

[31:48] Old mistakes won't learn from. And then and once you like, even when we were dealing with a debugging thing and, and we were talking with my team and we were like, you know what's it's not okay for it not to happen again. We need to know what caused it to happen so that it won't happen. That's right. It's not okay for us to have the result.

[32:06] We won't if we don't know how we got there.

[32:08] Yeah. My favorite phrase. If you don't, if you didn't write it down, it didn't happen, right? Like this. Screwing around in science is just writing down, right? And all of engineering, you can solve 80% of the problems you're facing with iteration. Yep. By just writing down what you did, writing on the result, and eventually you'll have enough data to go.

[32:25] Pattern. Recognize. These are the three things we always did that caused the bad result, and the two things we did at one time that made it work.

[32:31] That's why I'm not an engineer. I mean, I, you know, I wrote something down the been using my my Uplift was a laptop at high school. Those are my accommodations. Me too.

[32:43] Really?

[32:43] I got a laptop at middle school because I have a balance at you. And it was my handwriting. Be terrible, so I couldn't run out.

[32:50] Yes. I mean, I still can't read my handwriting. I mean, yeah. And so that was my Uplift. And so anyways, I'm not sure where I was going about writing things down, but yes, you said about writing things down.

[33:01] Yes. Transcribing. You know, my sister gave me a Plaud.

[33:06] How was it? Oh, Plaud are fantastic. So the notes. Anyways, this is where, you know. Yeah. They're not paid for us. Later,

[33:12] guys. Yeah, yeah. And but it provides great summaries

[33:19] and it is fantastic. That's awesome. So now you get to. Even though writing wasn't your thing, you now get a way to capture the data that happened.

[33:29] Yeah. Have it in a log format that you can go look up later. Yeah.

[33:33] It's I mean, it's honestly, I think, you know, that the way we could do that probably derived from assistive technology. And it's actually one of the things like, you know, signs and football. You know, that's actually came from a deaf league that was playing football.

[33:47] And that's how they communicated. And then anon definitely saw that and he picked it up. Why don't we do that. And so you know, there's a lot of cool things that I think if you look back, you know, the origin story of, of where things evolve from when it comes to product development. And even we are shown us some of the stuff that you are cool stuff you are doing here and yours lobby.

[34:05] You know, it's cool how it evolves to where that other one moved to.

[34:09] Like was it packing packaging? Yeah, it was supposed to be helmets to prevent brain injury. Yeah. And no one was brave enough to jump into that, you know, in that ocean first and change from the standard of care of polystyrene. Yeah.

[34:21] And we had to find a new use for this hard getting volunteers.

[34:25] You know, it was really hard. We need you to run your head against us.

[34:28] Yeah. Trust us. But it was really cool. And we jumped in the packaging space. We had this huge market demand for green, like, you know, good for the environment, compostable packaging. It was still very good at impact. Sure. Because these bottles of wine and liquor were expensive.

[34:42] Sure. And the market still are. That could afford these bottles of wine and liquor. Cared about the environment. It was like Venn diagram with the market. And capitalism met the need. And this is the same story that we were telling here is like, I still think this is the magic of my favorite products have either either an accidental or a very on purpose altruistic outcome.

[35:01] Yeah, but completely hidden by the capitalistic like it's good business model. Yeah. I think the thing that gets me most excited about hardware coming from the world of software is, I think when it comes to software, like finding product market fit is like really a really narrow point. Like this software does this thing. I think the unique part, whenever you're building hardware, is that you almost kind of create a surface area of product market fit where you think a lot of like accessibility products.

[35:25] We were out in somewhere down south. You're giving a talk and yeah, and there was an accessibility product for folks, I believe, who were hard of hearing, was blind in airports, blind in airports. And so it was just it was this thing for so people could see what like the different stores that are in the airports and so on.

[35:41] So it would narrate where you are in the airport and where to walk to your gate. And the way they paid for it is they sold ads. So as you walk by the store, you would get the audio of that stores on your left. Exactly. And they saw a huge lift in there. No pun intended, huge in their sales, because it wasn't just the people who were blind that wanted it.

[36:00] Sure, it was everyone else in the airport and airports. Yeah.

[36:03] As it turns out, everyone also gets lost in airports as well. Absolutely. You know, speaking of ads, we're speaking with NFL team has a really new stadium. And you know they were talking about sponsors that they, you know, haven't really had a way. You know speaking of you know, innovation, you know, and to make sure we understand that our venues really haven't had any but any other better way.

[36:25] They still don't until we're in the market and passed safety certification. But but having the opportunity to to use the accessibility as a sponsor sponsor asset. And so we have a little bit the unit is compact but there's a little space on there. And so we're trying to not only use Uplift as allowing our customers to have the halo effect of of doing the right thing.

[36:50] That's also there's a legal requirement there. And then also bring in some of their, their sponsors that have been supporting them and say, hey, here's something that if you want to have the halo effect of supporting, always tell people you know, if someone that is anyone who uses a wheelchair or a veteran, you know, if, would you give up your chair for them?

[37:12] Heck yeah. They're just they haven't had a way to give them a seat at the table. And the technology hasn't evolved. And that's what, you know, the time has come and that's what we're doing.

[37:22] I love that. And again, what's amazing to me is all of the core physics of your product have existed. Oh, yeah. Forever off the shelves.

[37:30] And you saw this whole in the market that you're like, hey, why can't we do this in the stationary? I'm thinking of the the box. Right? When they build the raised platform, that's all scaffolding. And they have to put the plywood on and semble the whole thing. I'm sure it takes them hours for somebody. Everyone between concerts. Oh, yeah.

[37:47] And they're huge. And they take up space. And if you sit behind that, you can't see over that.

[37:50] They're in the back. They're typically in the back, which is not like but it's not equal. It's like either sit in the back. I think that's against the law. Yeah. And the idea is the civil rights law,

[38:00] most people realize.

[38:01] But it either kills their economics because no one behind that concedes they have to block it, or they move it where they're going behind them. And, you know, you're there's this huge barrier to doing that. And you're like, you have to find a better way. And you're using standard mechanical lifting technology, right? This isn't rocket science. There's no nuclear reactor.

[38:20] This thing, you've got batteries. Yes. Right.

[38:23] So you have some some. Yeah. It can. There's, plug in. If a battery runs low, you can plug it in and charge itself. And also manual lowering.

[38:34] You know, if if the batteries die and you're not near a plug, I'm sure you can get it down. If the batteries die, there's a fire going on.

[38:39] I mean, like, there are so

[38:40] many different safety things that we have in that thing. You can get out of that thing. You know, of course, someone you know, it's not going to be something that typical public uses in a place where there's no one else in the surrounding area. Right,

[38:52] right. Right, right. But but my favorite part about this narrative is, like, you didn't have to create new laws of physics to make them happen.

[38:58] You had to have the foresight to see the hole in the market and to be diligent about trying to fill it. Yeah. And you found the right technology and the right structure to do this. I'm sure you iterated. I'm sure it's a very different design than you started with in day one. Sure. Yeah. But I've seen the video.

[39:13] I've seen the utility of it. And it's so cool that this thing that should have existed 15 or 20 years ago sure

[39:19] is existing now only because you saw that it needed to be here. It is. You know, I pinched myself. I mean, hearing that sometimes, you know, growing up, I always knew I was put here for something, you know, and I never knew.

[39:34] You know, if you look back, there's actually Jim. What is the flywheel? Good to great. Jim. No, no, no. Jim Collins. Yeah. He has a new book. And I was listening to that on Oprah's podcast On the trip with my wife, and it was talking about being program for for what you were programed for. And, you know, I look back on my life and the journey I went through with, with being in this class and the journey of, you know, not being diagnosed with dyslexia until the 10th grade, telling my mom that I'm dumb, like I'm not going to be able to go to college.

[40:14] I'm really grateful for that. And I think that everyone, you know, if we look back, we were all, you know, we're all in a journey, you know, and even the, the, the cliff is what Jim Collins was talking about is, you know, can be a new change. And it may feel challenging, which the the bumps in the road and the roadblocks we've encountered have been immense.

[40:37] But honestly, I wouldn't trade any of them because it's it's helped refine me, the vision, the team. You know,

[40:45] so I mean, I usually have a nice wrap up statement, but Jeff, that was that was a lot of it. I guess the last the last question I have for you is, again, can I putting a bow on what you just said?

[40:55] I completely agree with you. I think that starting from the very beginning, it really did for you start elementary school, like the story of Uplift and how that is kind of compelled to you, I think, and even the part of the story you hadn't you didn't get a chance to share around your kind of journey into legislation and to like, you know, the like, politics and how that kind of helped you get the right lens and look at policy.

[41:14] And that led to ultimately Uplift now and what you guys are doing, which is super unique, I guess, for folks that are, you know, little Jeff's or folks that maybe came from a similar background, what kind of your partying advice for them leaving the show?

[41:30] Well, if I could tell myself, I would just tell him that I love him.

[41:34] You know what I mean? And that it's okay, that it's not going to necessarily be easy, but because of the journey that you're going through, you're you're building this stamina, this grit that only can be formed through adversity. Experience. Yeah. And man, it is we are different. And any kid that has dyslexia, they may fill out their different.

[42:01] They are. And we're here to change the world. And that's what I'm trying to do. And that's why we named Lexia Solutions Lexia Solutions Dyslexia.

[42:10] It took me like longer than it should have to put that together. Yeah. And when it hit me. Hit me like a freight train. I was like, that is

[42:16] awesome. Yeah. I mean, we all have something to give.

[42:21] You know, we all have a gift to bring them. Bless the world with. And I think that some of the best solutions that come from ones that we look at things just a little

[42:29] differently. If you looked at things the same way as everyone else, you would build what's already there. Yeah, that's I mean, that's my parting gift for anyone in product, right?

[42:37] If you think like everyone else, you'll build the thing that everyone else has already built. That's right. And it takes all kinds to do product. Whether it takes the engineer who's good at math and diligent and all that things, or the visionary who sees the whole new market and will stop at nothing to fill that hole, and that they're driven to do so, or the person who does nothing more than to love, to share the message of the gospel, of what it is, why people need to know that exists.

[43:00] And it takes a whole group of a village to make a product successful. And what you just touched on is your side of your journey was so specific to make you uniquely good at what your role was in this business and in this world and in this product, and you know that it takes other kinds to the other puzzle pieces that you didn't feel.

[43:18] Absolutely. And I can't fail to mention, like throughout the journey, like there are people that are in it for seasons. You know, they come in and say, hey, I'm here, I want to help. Like, and we're learning. And like, I could sit here and talk for hours about the people that came in and said, I believe in you, Jeff.

[43:33] I want to give my time. And even though ultimately, you know, the journey, I guess, you know, no one's going to have the fight to continue like me, you know? But I'm so grateful for every single person that has helped lift me up along the way as we try to fulfill the law for the least of these

[43:53] everybody.

[43:53] This is The Hardtech Podcast. Jeff, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you. We'll see you guys next week. Cheers.