Alexandra Irvin: This is Narrating Salt Lake Utah. This episode is brought to you by the gender studies program at Westminster College. I am your host, Alexandra, and I will be doing my podcast on Skinwalker ranch, located Eastern Utah. I hope this podcast will inspire people to look deeper into urban legends around us and what they might reflect in our society today. Thanks for tuning in on my podcast. I'm going to be talking about the Skinwalker ranch located in Eastern Utah, right as you enter the Uintah basin, the ranch itself is located on a native American reservation known as the Uintah reservation. The reservation was established in 1861 by president Lincoln, about 500 acres, not only is the ranch the largest area for paranormal activity, but it is also the most documented. Legends and claims circulating around the ranch consists of UFO sightings, paranormal beings, and of course, the Skinwalker legend before president Lincoln established the reservation, local legends surrounding the ranch have been around long before. Starting off with the Spanish slave trade, it was common for the Ute tribe to capture and sell the Navajo tribe in exchange for their own freedom. As a result, it is rumored that the Navajo set a curse on the Ute tribe that evil beings known as Skinwalkers would attack them throughout the following generations. So what is a Skinwalker? Well, as mentioned in Navajo culture, a Skinwalker is a witch who has the ability to possess or disguise themselves as an animal. The Navajo name for Skinwalker translates to ‘with it, he goes on all fours.’ Although witchcraft is welcomed in Navajo culture, and is part of decades of tradition, the Navajo believed that witcheshave a choice between good and evil. Good witches are thought to aid those around them and help others such as medicinal herbal practices, blessings, and cleansings. While evil witches are thought to dive into the spirit world for their personal gain, and have even been rumored to use human corpses to aid their practice. A fear with Skinwalkers is attracting them. Ways to attract them are simply about talking about them, like I am now, calling them, et cetera. There's suggestions to avoid them as well. For example, if you’re in Skinwalker area, don't lock eyes with any animals, don't challenge them, leave before it turns dark, be respectful, and protect yourself. To become a Skinwalker, legend says one must commit an unforgivable crime, most noted as the murder of a close relative, which is very taboo among the Navajo tribe. Although the term Skinwalker originates from the Navajo community, the idea of a dark paranormal being tormenting those around them is not uncommon. As a kid, my grandma always told me the story about the chupacabra and el coco. Although usually used as a tactic to get me to behave, these legends and stories have been recorded all around the world. So what makes these stories stick? These dark legends? To this day, I can't deny getting an eerie feeling when driving down a dark road, that el chupacabra is going to get me. I know it sounds ridiculous, but words are powerful. These narratives and oral traditions are essential to passing culture and a different perspective of history down. The thing about oral traditions and stories is they serve as a lens, a new way to see what we see as a society happening in the past. Perhaps, it's a fear of losing our culture, evaluating our community values, or turning your back on something. Either way, there's something about these stories that resonate with us. And as our fears in society evolve, what is it about these stories that keep them intriguing? That force us to stop and listen? And what can we learn about ourselves from these legends? In this podcast, I'd like to focus on the legend of the Skinwalker, maybe even the history of the area of it. I want to see what the Skinwalker legend can represent in the past and how it has transcended into our modern day lives. What's with the popularity of Skin Walker ranch, anyways? If it's a dark paranormal area, why are people so attracted to it? What draws them there? Next time, I'll introduce a friend of mine, Lexi’s own experience. Lexi's family's from the Navajo tribe and is willing to discuss her own experience with oral traditions within her family, the legend of the Skinwalker, how this affected her growing up, and any parallels between the modern day and past legends that she’s seen, and finally her own opinion of Skinwalker ranch. Lexi Johnson: All right. So I'm Lexi Johnson and I am half Navajo and half. Um, let's see, Irish, I guess. Alexandra Irvin: Thanks for joining us today, Lexi. Lexi Johnson: Yeah. Thank you for having me on the program. Alexandra Irvin: I'm just going to get right on into it. Um, how old were you when you first heard about the Skinwalker legend? Lexi Johnson: Ooh. I want to say I was probably around like maybe 10 or 11. It was a little late for me. Alexandra Irvin: Like who told you about it? Lexi Johnson: It was kind of, I want to say it was my dad and my cousins that kind of warned me about it. Alexandra Irvin: Oh, today it was like a warning, it wasn't like a story. Lexi Johnson: Yeah. It seemed like a warning at first. I haven't really heard many stories. I just hear warnings. Alexandra Irvin: What, what was the situation, you don't mind me asking? Like, were you just kind of sitting and camping, or like what was going on? Lexi Johnson: I want to say it was when we were, like, driving through the reservation to visit my grandparents and we were driving at night, and my dad was freaking out because that's just where they roam around. They run around at night and open fields, and, my dad was trying to hurry as fast as he can to get back to my grandparents' house. And then he just started telling me about it. Alexandra Irvin: So were you like, ‘why are you freaking out’ and he was like ‘let me tell you about this’ or tell us about that? Lexi Johnson: Yeah. Alexandra Irvin: So after that, like how did you kind of approach it? Like, did it play any significant role in your life? Like, did you ever think about it or anything like that, or people have like, have people asked you about it? Like right now? Lexi Johnson: Not really. It was just, uh, I just always viewed it as, like, an urban legend. It's definitely something that I don't want to like go any further into cause it's kind of, like, taboo within our culture. It only becomes relevant when I'm done in the reservation and it gets too dark. Alexandra Irving: Yeah. So was it, did you notice it being used as, like, a scare tactic? Like I know in Mexico they'll say like, ‘Oh, cucuy will come and get you' if you, like, don't go to bed on time. So was that ever used as a tactic like that? Or was it more kind of secretive and kind of just like, don't talk about it kind of thing. Lexi Johnson: Yeah, my family used it as a scare tactic to me, like, to me, that was my boogeyman for growing up. Yeah, like whenever I like play outside too late, like, my parents will be like, ‘It's getting dark. They're gonna come get you.’ And I'm like, ‘Oh!’ Alexandra Irvin: Oh my gosh, that's funny. Um, so with that, like, was it ever seen as something super serious, or like you said, or was it more like an urban legend boogeyman, more so? Lexi Johnson: I believe I've always just kind of viewed it as like an urban legend. My Navajo side of the family claimed that they have like claimed that they do believe in it. And I was telling Raquel, like, probably a while ago that like my family did have suspicions that this guy was after me and after our family and that he could possibly be like a Skinwalker cause they can, cause they can take forms, like, of humans as well. Alexandra Irvin: Um, how, so, it is like a boogeyman in some instances, but other times it also is very real. Lexi Johnson: Yeah, but that's kind of, I mean, I don't know if it is or not, cause I haven't heard anything else about it since I want to say when I was 13, I heard about that. Alexandra Irvin: So what's a Skin Walker, legend that your dad told you, what's your understanding of it? Cause I think there's like different translations for it. Lexi Johnson: Oh, yeah, there is like, I can't tell what is true and what isn't, but fromwhat I've heard is that Skinwalkers are usually just people who are just, they just have, like, very angered spirits and yeah. And they usually tend to get very jealous and they're very negative people. And in order to become one, they go to a Navajo witch doctor and they put some skull or something up against them, and that's what gives them the form to transform to other animals during the night and all of that. And then there's this guy that was after my family, I heard it was because, that he was jealous of our family that, yeah. That our family is kind of well-known for being like, sort of wealthy down in the reservation and that we have most of us live in the city and some of us went to school and yeah and that guy, I guess, was just jealous that his family wasn't like that so he stalked my grandparents and my grandpa's brother. And it was, it was not a good time. Alexandra Irvin: Right. Lexi Johnson: Yeah. Alexandra Irvin: Okay. So you hearing about the Skin Walker legend was obviously like an oral kind of passing down, so with that, what kind of role does oral traditions play in your life and any other urban legends that you've heard that are specific to your, like, heritage? Lexi Johnson: Yeah, I've only ever heard about like, just, like, the Skinwalkers and just, like, what different animals represent within our culture. I don't really remember much anymore because I have a terrible memory about it, Alexandra Irvin: You’re good. Lexi Johnson: But I do remember that owls are a bad thing. Alexandra Irvin: Owls are?! Lexi Johnson: Yeah, owls. Alexandra Irvin: What did they do?Like, why are they a bad thing? Lexi Johnson: So I've heard that they, that they're supposed to be watching for the devil. They’re kind of security cameras for the devil. Yeah. Like the way that they move and how they rotate their heads and how they're only out at night. Yeah. I heard about that. Alexandra Irvin: That's gross. Lexi Johnson: Yeah. Alexandra Irvin: Do you have any, like, stories about it? Lexi Johnson: Yeah, I was just about to tell you, my dad encountered an owl, so I don't remember when this was, but my dad was in the reservation at the time. He was, he was going to, like, the grocery store or something to help my grandpa out. And he was driving late at night and he. And his headlights turned on an owl and he accidentally stared, right? Like he made eye contact with it. And when you do that, that means that either a close one that you love, or some sort of family member or friend is going to die. Yeah. Someone in our family died, like, this was long ago that I don't really remember much of this either. I want to say it was my dad's cousin that did I want to say maybe a month later. Alexandra Irvin: Wow, noted. Thank you for sharing that. I'm going to kind of transition more about Skinwalker ranch specifically. So how do you personally feel about the ranch. What are some of your opinions? Lexi Johnson: Let's see, I, I'm not really sure what it is in particular. Like I haven't been there. I haven't seen it. Alexandra Irvin: Um, president Lincoln created the reservation, but there was some rivalry or something with the Ute tribe and the Navajo tribe. Lexi Johnson: Oh yeah. Alexandra Irvin: And it said that the, you tribe sold a lot of the Navajo people into the Spanish slave trade. And because of that, the Navajo people set a curse on them. And it's the curse of the Skinwalker. So there's this ridge that separates the reservation from the Ute to the Navajo. Lexi Johnson: Yeah. Alexandra Irvin: And it's called on the path of the Skinwalker. And so there's supposed to be this kind of generational curse a little bit. And then there's just been a bunch of accounts that, cause it is on a reservation, like we went there and it was on a reservation. Lexi Johnson: Yeah. Alexandra Irvin: And I guess there's been a lot of accounts that people can see paranormal beings and they mostly see, like, large black dogs with red eyes. It's kind of the typical thing. The ranch was originally owned by the Sherman family, and they didn't claim anything. And then, but they were these weird people, like everyone in town thought they were really weird. Lexi Johnson: Yeah. Alexandra Irvin: And there's a lot of paranormal stuff happened around the property. And then, this other family bought it and then they reported a ton of stuff. And then since then there's been TV shows, there's been Harvard, like professors testing on it, government people testing on it, just all this stuff. And there's a lot of documentation, but nothing super substantial. But then one of the documentaries we watched said they weren't allowed to share most of the findings that they had because of this weird government pact. Lexi Johnson: Yeah. Alexandra Irvin: So have you heard about it prior to this and like who, or how did you hear it from? Lexi Johnson: Let's see, I have heard of Skinwalker ranch, so I didn't really know much until just now, but no yeah I had just, like, heard my dad and my aunt and her kids talk about it. And they were just like, 'Let's just not go there.' And they would joke that they'd want to, but they're like, 'Ah, no, nevermind.' And I tried to ask them about it and they're just like, 'Um, uh, you don't really want to know' and I'm like, okay, cool. Alexandra Irvin: Sorry. So my podcast kind of concludes: These urban legends can kind of serve as reflections of what society fears. If you were to reflect on that as well, like, what would you think the Skinwalker legend has, like, represented in the past or, like, even today? Lexi Johnson: I kind of just view it as just a lesson on how to be respectful towards others and just how to better yourself instead of just dwelling into all this negativity and jealousy and to the point where you're literally just transforming yourself. So just because that's just what you just, because you just don't want to fix yourself. And I think it's just best to accept it and just work your way up. Alexandra Irvin: Do you have any like final, final thoughts? Any last words? Lexi Johnson: Don't become one. But okay. But a coyote or something. Alexandra: But thanks so much for sharing this. This was really awesome. Lexi Johnson: Thank you for having me. Alexandra Irvin: Lexi was kind enough to share her own reflection and experiences with the Skinwalker legend. "Reclaiming History and Visibility Through Rhetorical Sovereignty" by Laura Tohe also share some insight on the Skinwalker legend, and how it's evolved to modern day. The essay explores the importance of oral traditions with the indigenous populations here in the United States and all across the globe. These oral traditions build a bridge between two interpretations of history: The indigenous and the colonists. the words we use are powerful. And in the case of the Dine tribe, they keep stories alive to create optimism for the future and optimism that the history of their people will survive and thrive. Tohe explains her own understanding of the Skinwalker legend to be a generational curse. Colonialism is not only an injustice to native ancestors, but transcends to present day. Skinwalkers can also be recruited or targeted as Tohe explains. Similar to Lexi's account Skinwalkers must be in a negative dark place in order to become one. After they have done such a deed, they target others and sometimes recruit them to also be a Skinwalker. In chapter four, Tohe discusses the importance of trickster tales. In order to be a trickster tale, you must include a trickster and cause us to reflect on our culture, reevaluate our values, and offer a new way to view the structures of society. The trickster to me is a parallel to the modern day villain. They force us to reevaluate the culture that has created them, and with that, our values, this isn't specific to the Skin Walker legend, but it is the core of urban legends around the world. Some translations of the Skin Walker legend explained that one was turned on their people in order to become one. A parallel of this I took note of was early in native American boarding schools. Children would be sent to these boarding schools, have their sacred hair cut and learn English, and then would essentially be whitewashed when they would return to their tribe, they were almost unrecognizable. And then alienated. Some rumors of Skinwalkers, were these "lost children" because they left their culture. They were susceptible to negativity. Lexi explained that envy and depression can be a doorway to becoming a Skinwalker. In such a rich culture, we can see that family and traditions are not only powerful, but necessary. When we turn away from them, we may be susceptible to depression, negative thoughts, and jealousy, to the point where we harm ourselves and others. I believe all urban legends reflect corners of society, what we fear and what we value at our core. Whether they're true or not, they can serve as lessons and warnings. For me, el cucuy, or the Mexican boogeyman, would force me to go to bed on time. When my mother asked in Germany, Krampus taught children not to be naughty around Christmas time. For Lexi, her boogeyman was the legend of the Skinwalker. As I grow older, it's hard not to look back on these urban legends and see how they've evolved, not only with me, but the world around me, and how they serve as a reflection of ourselves. This episode was hosted and produced by Alexandra. Special thanks to Eileen and Lexi for all their help. Thanks for listening. Jared Winn: This episode was produced by the gender studies program and the sociology department at Westminster College. Editing and sound design by Jared Winn music by Luke Rainbow and our local was created by Catherine Nielson.