Joyful Disciple Podcast - Spiritual Warfare

Kylie: Hey guys, welcome to the Joyful Disciple Podcast, where today, my dad, Nick Oyler, and I are going to be talking about spiritual warfare. Now, the reason for this conversation is spurred out of this seminar that I took at my college, Ozark Christian College, and that was a seminar on spiritual warfare or spiritual conflict. Now, when I took this class, I was honestly mind blown, and a lot of things came to light for me when having this discussion. And so that is part of the reason why I want to talk about today, to bring to light a lot of topics or things that just seem really muddy when talking about spiritual— uh, just a spiritual world and spiritual warfare and all these things that maybe you hear but aren't really talked about in the church setting. And so first, I want to give us a little bit of a brief history of what spiritual warfare is and does and affects. And so first, we need to kind of understand what the spirit, what the dimensions are, and that there are two different dimensions. One is the seen, and that is the physical world that we live in. So that's the trees outside, the people that you run into, your family, a house, you live in, all the things that you can physically see and touch, and that is the seen world. That is what we live in and also what we can see. But then there's also the unseen, which is a spiritual dimension which we also live in. We just cannot physically see. So it also kind of feels like it's not there when that's not the fact, that's not the truth, but it feels like that. And it's kind of like the wind, where you only notice it when it is physically touching your skin when you're in the cold or you're having a breeze in the summer. And so those are the two dimensions. And as we dive in, I want to bring scripture to this, because that is the reason that we're talking about this, and that is because it is in the word of God. and so I think we commonly go over these scriptures that are talking about the spiritual dimensions, and quite a few of them talk about them together. And so, before we really dive into all of these different things that are talking about the spiritual world, I would love to read a couple of scriptures explaining them together. First, we have 2 Corinthians 4:18. So we fix our eyes not on what is seen but on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal. And honestly, that brings exactly the same words that, um, the dimensions are called, and that is, we are to fix our eyes on Jesus who, or on god and Jesus who? We cannot see, because what we can see is temporary. All of the things that we have in this world. It won't come with us into heaven. So we need to fix our eyes on Jesus, because he's all we need. 
I’m going to read is Matthew 10:28 and that says do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul rather be afraid of the one who can destroy both soul and body in hell and to me that is talking about God and that we are to fear him but in the best way possible that he has the power to do all these things and when we believe in God we're believing in the spiritual world so I think that's kind of what that verse is kind of bringing in to uh sight in like in a tangible way of saying like hey like don't be afraid of the things that of this world but rather be afraid of the one who has power to take a kill not only a body but a spirit. 
Another thing I want to talk about are three huge errors of mindset that we, as Christians, tend to have when we are thinking about spiritual warfare. First, it is that it doesn't exist. That is not a world we want to live in. Is that the spiritual world doesn't exist, because in saying that, you're saying that God doesn't exist and that His power, He’s powerless, and so when we are thinking about this, we have to remember that it is real and that is powerful, but also remember that God is powerful. Another thing that we are to avoid when talking or thinking about spiritual warfare, or just the spiritual world in general, is thinking that the spiritual world is unimportant, that it has nothing to do with us, that it is just out there, lives in its own world, and we are not in it. But that is not just not the truth. That we need to remember that there are things that are happening in this world and not, um, in a lot of the classes that I’ve been taking, it's kind of the idea of like prayer, of like. Yes, we can't see everything, but God hears our prayers. And so praying for that, so recognizing that the spiritual world is important and that we need to be praying in that, because that's a huge, huge, act of spiritual warfare. And then another thing that we are to avoid is living in fear, and it just goes and points back to God and how He has everything in His hands. 
Now we're going to be talking about the principal beings in those two arenas and those two areas of the spiritual world. And so first we're going to be talking about who God the Father is. And when we say God, the Father, that is our Heavenly Father, and as we say that's unseen. And so he is God, the Spirit. And then god, the Holy Spirit, is again a Spirit. And then we have satan, who is a Spirit, demons, who are Spirits, angels, who are also Spirits, and then we have animals, which are non-Spirit, physical beings. Then we have humans, who are bi-party, which means that they are both Spirit and physical. So our souls and what the Holy Spirit lives in, that's our Spirit, and so. But we're also human and we're living in both worlds, the unseen and the seen, and so we are mixing both. And then we have Jesus God, the Son, and he is both Son of Man and Son of God, which means he was fully human but also is fully Spirit and fully god, who is god, the Spirit. And so when we mention like that part, it's kind of confusing, but also it's really cool to be like: wow, Jesus lived on Earth and he was both fully human and both fully god and fully Spirit, and he understood spiritual warfare so well, which is what we're about to dive into. 
And so the reason that I brought my dad on this podcast is because he has a lot of experience. He was in ministry for 25 years and has a lot of experience with spiritual warfare in a church setting, but also in a personal setting. So we're gonna dive into that...

oylernick: Thanks for inviting me onto your podcast. I'm glad to be a part of this. And one of the things when you, when we first started talking about spiritual warfare, my mind kind of went to ministry. Cause when you get into ministry and I went to Bible college like you, and you kind of don't realize that the things that you face are not necessarily just like they look on the surface, that there's more to that. There's more behind what's going on. You know, you have a church member who jumps you after church because of the color of the carpets, not what they wanted. That's not always just that person just being mad because of the color of the carpet, but there's more kind of going on behind the scenes and beyond that. And one of the things that I've learned over the years is that when you're doing something for the Lord, you're going to face spiritual resistance in some way. And that can be in a lot of different ways. It kind of rears its head and, and, sometimes weird things that, uh, when you look back on, you're like, oh, I guess I was, uh, something spiritual going on beyond, uh, what, what I could see on the surface. We had a lady in our church who was real, real divisive. And she was, just one of those people who had behind the scenes. So she would, she would talk real nice to you, to your face, but then behind your back. And, and she would just kind of stir up trouble, uh, with different ones and kind of say something over here and get this person going and say something over here and get this person going. And it was real divisive and, and really kind of hurting the church in a lot of ways with her divisiveness and, uh, just kind of pitting people against each other and getting, you know, the, you know, just all kinds of things. And so we had a meeting with her, um, and her husband at the time and just, uh, kind of confronting what was going on as the elders. And, um, it was just one of those meetings that the lady, if she had had a gun, we all would have been dead. I mean, just the look on her face and just kind of how, you know, just how intense she was about it, and you could tell that it wasn't just, um, that there was a lot more to it, that there was some kind of spiritual side to it. And, it's interesting because for me, after that, after the meeting, you know, we got through it and prayed, you know, we'd spent a lot of time in prayer before that meeting going in, knowing that it was going to be more than just, uh, uh, that there was more to it. And so we, we kind of knew that ahead of time, went into the meeting prepared, uh, praying and, but yet at the end afterwards, we got all done. And, and one of the elders looked at me, he's like, man, your face is really red. Are you hot? Cause I had a tie and suit and everything on. And so what happened is my blood pressure had just gone up because of the stress of it, uh, fighting the spiritual back, you know, just kind of. But, uh, and it's interesting, I was reading in Daniel and he was talking about, you know, there's in his prayers, um, there's this spiritual battle that's going on. And, and, and, uh, angel comes and talks to him and he's like worn out with, um, all of the, um, the stress and anxiety. And he says, I need, I need you to strengthen me. And so the angel strengthens him. And, that was kind of the same feeling that I had in that, in that moment was, you know, that God, and, and we went to the emergency room and my blood pressure was able to come down easily. And, uh, they got it taken care of, but, uh, but yes, just the stress of that moment and, and knowing that it was, there's more than just somebody upset. It was, there was a spiritual aspect to that and, and trying to, you know, as we're trying to move the church forward and reaching people for the Lord. And, another one I had was, we had had a day of baptisms. We had, I think it was five baptisms in our small church in Creve Coeur. And so five baptisms in one Sunday. And the way that our baptistry was, I knew that I kind of had to get them into a line. And then instead of doing the, that church had a tradition where you would go up front, introduce the person and tell, you know, it take their confession of faith and then you would go and baptize them. Well, this time I did all of that up in the baptistry and then talked to them, baptized them, and then went on to the next one, just because I knew it was going to be a smoother way to do it. The one guy and his wife, I spent a lot of time working with them, teaching them, discipling them, and then they were baptized. It was a really cool day. And I had, the next day, one of the elders came in and complained to me that I did it all wrong and I didn't baptize them right because I didn't have them come up down front. But, again, you know, it's not just a, somebody complaining, but there's a spiritual aspect. You're doing something for the Lord, there's going to be resistance. And, um, and I would say that's one of the things that I've learned the most in ministry is that a lot of times what happens is we, we kind of want to do it in our own strength and with our own, you know, skill set and, and the things that we have on, on our own strength. But it's, we have to go into ministry knowing that there's going to be resistance and that the way through that is through prayer, you know, always having those moments prayed through and, and, uh, spending time in that. So then that's where my next thing that I learned was remember who the enemy is and come dressed for the battle. Because the enemy is not the people, But the enemy is the spiritual forces of this dark world that Ephesians six talks about. And, um, and that's really the scripture that sticks out to me is that, you know, it says, be strong in the Lord and his mighty power, put on the full, put on, uh, all of God's armor. So that you will be able to stand firm against all the strategies of the devil, for we are not fighting against flesh and blood enemies, but against evil rulers and authorities of the unseen world against the mighty powers in this dark world. And against all evil, against evil spirits in the heavenly places that there are, um, forces that are, that are going that we, we can't see. And so then he tells us what that armor is and it's what we need to have on us so that we can resist. And so that basically it's, it's this putting on the belt of truth, and the body armor of God's righteousness, the shoes of the peace that comes from the good news. So that you'll be fully prepared. In addition to these, hold up the shield of faith to stop the fire arrows of the devil, and then put on salvation as your helmet and take up the sword of the spirit, which is the word of God. And then pray in the spirit of all times and on every occasion, stay alert and be persistent in your prayers for all believers everywhere. And I think that is, uh, really, to me, the key to strong ministry and doing ministry that, that God wants us to do and a ministry that's going to see people's lives changed and them become more like Jesus. You know, the goal of the Christian life is to look more like Jesus today than I did yesterday, more like Jesus tomorrow than I did today. And, and, and so that leads me to my last point is do ministry in the spiritual strength that you've been given, not in your own power. Um, I did never say that. Yeah, I haven't said that yet. Anyway, so it's do ministry in the, in the spiritual strength that you've been given, not in your own power. We try to do things too much on our own strength, but yet God wants us to do it in His. And the other thing is And one of the churches I was at in Auburn, we had a prayer group. And, and I tell you what, with that prayer group, when we, we would pray, we would see a lot of things change and God was working through that. And then, and, and, um, and then we also did a thing where we would go pray, go through the building and pray and, um, ask God to, uh, protect us and, and, uh, to really work in people's hearts. And, uh, and so I think there, we really had a ministry of prayer going that was really changing things and seeing God move. And so you see just in little ways how it's kind of subtle, but, uh, and then there are other places where you'll see demonic forces that come against you. We had a lady who started coming to our church. She was invited and, just a little bit different, she was kind of Gothic. She came and seemed to enjoy the service and I met her a few times, tried to get to know her, but not, you know, not too, too much. And then she started coming to the worship practices and she liked our youth minister. She was kind of sweet on him. He was married and had two kids. And so it wasn’t an appropriate thing. And so, she would leave these little notes for him and it was just kind of a weird vibe. And so I confronted her, and I said that, you know, I'd like to have a meeting with you, to talk to you about this. I set it up. I did it right. I had some ladies in the church that were going to come in and meet with her with me, and we were going to talk through it. Well, she ended up canceling, so she couldn't come in. But she did come in, and she was all dressed in black and just weird. She went into the sanctuary area and put a package. And so we opened it up, and there was a bullet with my name on it. So that was like really, um, one of those moments where you're kind of scared, but the one verse that really kept coming into my head was this one. But you belong to God, my dear children. You have already won a victory over those people because the spirit who lives in you is greater than the spirit who lives in the world. And it shakes you. Just knowing that there's demonic forces at work in her life. And she just could not, let go of those. When people get set free  from the power of those demons, God has to be praised for that. And so sometimes we miss that. But it's something you learn from and you learn and you grow and you depend more and more on God. So that would be the thing that I would say is that spiritual warfare is real and our job is, is not necessarily to fight the battle on our own, you know, with  our own strength, but in God's strength.

Kylie: As you're talking it just brought a lot of ideas into my brain as well and like the first one that I kind of want to talk about is like the prayer aspect of spiritual warfare I think that was a big part of this class and what he talked about is that prayer is probably one of the most spiritual things that we can partake in and that is praying to our heavenly father and so as you're mentioning that through the ministry and how to kind of combat uh the enemy with prayer uh is it just really it was it's really impactful I think sometimes we forget the power of prayer and how much God can do through simple words that we're praying or that our spirit is praying for us and so I just wanted to kind of address like what prayer means in the spiritual world and that is that is the most spiritual thing that we can do as humans and one thing I think and one thing I think is really special is that Jesus prayed, that Jesus prayed to his father, and even though he was, he was fully spirit. like he was fully spirit, He still prayed to God, and especially when he was tempted, he was tempted by the enemy, and in that, he prayed. He said, “ Lord, please help me.” He recited scripture, like, I think, kind of what you're saying, like how to combat these things is through scripture and through praying. I love how you mentioned that you guys prayed in the church and prayed over all those things. And, uh, also like the interactions you have were crazy, but just seeking the Lord in prayer and relying on the Lord in everything. I think that's so incredible. And then another thing I wanted to kind of talk about as well is about how you said we need to know who the enemy is. And I think one thing we talked about in the class again, which is so cool, was Job 1 through 2, and where we kind of learn about who Satan is and kind of what. That what Satan kind of has in the world, like what his control is and what his control isn't.
 First, I'll read Job 1, 1 through 13 or 1 through 12, and that is it's a little bit linked, but it's, it's super impactful. And that's in the land of us. There lived a man whose name was Job. That man was blameless and upright. He feared God and shunned evil. He had seven sons and three daughters, and he owned 7,000 sheep, 3,000 camels, 500 yoke of oxen, 500 donkeys, and had a large number of servants. He was the greatest man among all the people of the east. His sons used to hold feasts in his home on their birthdays, and they would invite their three sisters to eat and drink with them. When a period of feasting had run in its course, Job would make arrangements for them to be purified early in the morning. He would sacrifice a burnt offering to each of them, thinking: Perhaps my children have sinned and cursed God in their hearts. This was Job's regular custom. One day the angel came to present himself before the Lord, and Satan also came with them. The Lord said to Satan: Where have you come from? Satan answered the Lord, or Satan answered the Lord from roaming through the earth, coming back and forth on it. Then the Lord said to Satan: Have you considered my servant, Job? There is no one on earth like him. He is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. Does Job fear God for nothing? Satan replied: Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so his flocks and herds spread throughout the land. But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you and your face. The Lord said to Satan: Very well then, very well then. Everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself, do not lay a finger. Then Satan went out from the presence of the Lord. And so in that verse we first learn about Job and his life and how he was a holy servant of God, and he was blessed beyond measure, had everything in abundance and abundance. And then Satan comes in and roams the earth— which is what we live in— and seeks out different people trying to cause havoc. And then God brings up his servant, Job, Who is a blessed servant who loves Jesus so much or loves God so much and is faithful to him.
And so then we kind of just see his deviousness like. Oh well, you're saying he's perfect in all these things, but you haven't tested him. And so in that that's where the enemy puts his hand in that, and we kind of hear: Like Satan, we just kind of get to see that devious side of Satan a little bit like in the scriptures. And then another is in Job 2, and I won't read all of that. But again, the Lord. There’s a moment where the Lord asked: Where have you come from? And again, obviously we know, God knows everything, he's all-knowing, he's omnipresent.
But he's asking Satan, I think partly for us, so we know, but also for Satan.
And then we see that he's roaming the earth again. and then it says in verse 3, a part of verse 3, and he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason. so he's kind of saying, kind of pointing it back to himself, like, hey, he, yes, like he didn't. um, turn on you after I took so much away from him, but you are not letting me do as much as I want to. and kind of just making more and more excuses to why God's servant isn't turning away. And so through all this, we also see the example of Job that through all the suffering, he's trusting in the Lord and the things that Job is doing are just surrendering to the Lord, saying: Lord, why is it happening? And I don’t need to read this. So some things that we learned through this passage are: First, that Satan is accountable to God, that he cannot do any harmful things to us without the permission from God, in the sense that obviously he said, you can do these things, but he can only do so much. And I think that's kind of where it shows that Satan has a leash on him, that he is not able to go anywhere else. And I think another thing is that God knows Satan's thoughts, so he knows what he's going to do, he knows what he's planning, and so he limited him. Another thing is that God is omnipresent. His presence is everywhere. He’s everywhere with us, but Satan isn't, he's evil, but he can't be everywhere at once like God. and so in that he has to send out different forces, and I think that's kind of what this is talking about is like he has to get permission, because unless he, he can't do anything without it because he's, he just doesn't have power. uh, like God does. And so another thing is, uh, when facing those evil spirits, when having mental blocks or different things that you feel are spiritual or even just mental things like feeling these thoughts or feelings, is all we have to say is Jesus, and that was something that was so impactful- is like saying Jesus like you. Take this like in Jesus name, remove this in Jesus name, because he holds all the power, and so recognizing his authority over our lives and not also his authority over the spiritual realm. I think that's something really cool, and in books that we read is that Jesus is the truth, that when we speak that into existence, we're speaking the truth and we're also speaking this massive power over the spiritual realm, and it does so much more than, honestly, we could even recognize— is that saying Jesus's name holds more weight than we will probably ever know until we go with him in heaven?
But as we kind of wrap up this conversation about spiritual warfare, I just talked about multiple different topics and how it affects our ministry and how when we are doing things for the Lord, which is ministry, sharing the gospel with people, um, and it doesn't just have to be vocational ministry. It could be anywhere in your life when you're sharing the gospel and you love Jesus. The enemy will try to interfere in whatever level he can, and so as we're talking about what it does in the ministry, who Satan really is, and that is a spiritual being who honestly has very little power over us. That sometimes it may seem that he has more than he really does, but God really has all the power and all the authority. Then another thing that we talked about is just kind of how to come back, combat that, and to be strong in the word. And a thing that I think can be really important and something I learned through this class is an exercise I had to do through a book, and that was, uh, freedom to or freedom and or uh, exercise of freedom in Christ. And so what you would do is kind of just renouncing all of the things that have happened in your life, whether that's spiritual like rituals or all these different things. And it was a really cool experience just experiencing freedom in your life. And so as a wrap-up, I have a question for you, and that is, what ways, like obviously prayer is massive, and that was really what the exercise um went off, but what would your like encouragement be to people who are experiencing spiritual warfare mentally and in their own life...

oylernick: I'm just reading the scripture and that's what's coming to my mind. From First John, it says, but we belong to God and those who know God, listen to us. If they do not belong to God, then they do not listen to us. That's how we know if someone has a spirit of truth or the spirit of deception. So dear friends, let us continue to love one another for love comes from God. Anyone who loves is a child of God and knows God, but anyone who does not love does not know God for God is love. God showed how much he loved us by sending his one and only son into the world so that we might have eternal life through him. And this is real love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his son as a sacrifice to take away our sins. So dear friends, since God loved us that much, we surely ought to love each other. No one has ever seen God, but if we love each other, God lives in us and his love is brought to full expression in us. And God has given us his spirit as the proof that we live in him and he in us. And I think that's the key is to, you know, the prayer aspect of it, but also that living it out in our lives and loving each other just as Christ loved us. And I think that's a key is to show God's love to one another and to live it out in our lives. 

Kylie: Good, all right, well, thank you guys, so much for listening and thank you, uh, Dad, for joining this podcast with me and just, uh, diving into a kind of a sticky conversation, but one that is extremely important for us to acknowledge. Have a good day.