speaker-0 (00:00.088) So here we go, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Catching Foxes here with my here with the other, the number two other. And if we presume like Shannon, she's the number three other. We have Dave and Vickle here. Dave, how are we? speaker-1 (00:14.198) I'm great and yes, I agree. It goes Luke, you and I and then Shannon. In the life of Kill. That's why she cries. That's why she cries. Luke, if you were to give Dave a nickname as a middle name, what would it be? The killer Dave the Killer Van Vickel. Okay. All right. There you go. I'm okay with it. Dave speaker-0 (00:22.828) No, that's fair. That's speaker-0 (00:31.95) Killer. speaker-0 (00:37.614) Gave the the the Pittsburgh Guardian Van Vickel. speaker-1 (00:46.84) Like a silent guardian in the night in Pittsburgh. Timo I I I would prefer like you know, like the the show when on The Simpsons when they go to Shelbyville and he's like concealing himself in the bushes and I'll spring forth as your burling companion when when someone comes to bully you. Right. that's my favorite that's my favorite Simpsons episode. speaker-0 (01:07.286) Or am I here? speaker-0 (01:12.896) It's just harder, boys. speaker-1 (01:16.416) Spring forth my burly fr Protector. yeah, I remember that now, Ralph. Or not Ralph Martin. And the and then Nelson comes out. Yeah, exactly that. speaker-0 (01:27.182) normally I would never hang out with them. speaker-1 (01:32.526) that's awesome. Like is here. speaker-0 (01:36.698) actually have a thing on Instagram of like of that scene where like they're walking and Martin's dancing. Yeah. And I was like, this is of Luke and Gomer on their way to record. I won't say who's who or something that. speaker-1 (01:50.286) that's awesome. speaker-0 (01:53.934) so I want to talk to you guys about anger. I know we've got stuff you want to talk about, but I want to talk about how to deal with anger because I got angry last last night. two thousand and seventeen Luke was just popping out. speaker-1 (02:03.586) Yeah, you have you you I remember I remember your temper. speaker-0 (02:06.842) Yeah, it's it's not good sometimes. It's gotten a lot better. A lot better. So Rachel, please don't w worry. That's the old lady friend. Jersey. speaker-1 (02:18.42) Appreciates that descriptor. That's what I call Shannon. speaker-0 (02:21.366) Old Lady President. So I have this weird I have this weird thing where I really like Wayne's World 2 because for some reason I owned Wayne's World 2 and not and not Wayne's World 1. Yeah, so there's this joke they like have this roadie in it who's who's like who's helping them put on Wayne stock and he keeps talking about his like old lady. speaker-1 (02:34.699) Really? Okay. speaker-0 (02:47.054) And they're going through his picture and then he just goes, Wow, that's like you know, like who's that? And he goes, that's like, you like Hendricks, that is, you know, that is Jim Morson. And then they go, Who's that? Who's that old lady? And he goes, That's my old lady. So that's where my mind goes every I hear like that's my old lady. And everyone just goes, Luke, that doesn't make any sense. You weren't you were a youth group nerd, weren't you? And then I quietly die inside. So all right. So I got a little the there's a there's a Catholic content creator who I just I Every anytime I see his stuff, I just kind of quietly see. And he responded to this thing and it just drove me insane. Like it just like I was like, That's it. It's it's go time. and he basically had it, he was quo tweeting this thing about like, do you like? I don't know, something about like like Norvus Ordo compared to ad orientum, whatever. And in the picture that this person had, it was the Pope doing like novus ordo mass, and it was a priest doing the like. Add, you know, whatever. Well, like I'm rat trapped thing. And so like this content creator guy goes, I much prefer like whatever the I forget like what he said, but he was basically saying, I prefer the tradition that was like handed down to me over the years, not one that was the result of strategic planning or something. And I'm just like, you are using the And that influencer was Gilmer. No, I'm seriously, like I'm like, you're using the Pope. speaker-1 (04:09.612) Just get it gone. speaker-0 (04:14.368) Even though you're quote doing like as to like to like kind of crap on the Pope to make yourself look good. Right. And that causes scandal in people's minds. Like that makes it okay to criticize the vicar of Christ that you are using to further your your brand. And I was fuming, like fuming mad. And I just like I so then he blocked me. And then I created this post on Instagram and I was like, it's about this guy. And I tagged him in it. On our Instagram we Gomer, but I made sure it was clearly from me. I made sure it was clearly from me there was five speaker-1 (04:50.554) Drew you a picture and now I'm taking it back. If I if I if I were Pope, here's what here's what I would do. I would say, all right, anybody who's gonna publicly speak as a Catholic influencer, we're all gonna we're gonna move you all into the same compound. And that way, and that way when what's his name, Mr. You know, your your your idol, Gomer, when he says something like that I'm a I'm a mental defective or an illiterate, I'll just march right down the hall and I'll just knock his ass out and then I'll just come back over. And I'll be like, now why don't you say it? So I now I'd like to see what you're gonna say online about me or something like that. Are you talking about Bishop Lopes? Why do you want to punch Bishop Lopes? Who's that? I don't know who you're talking about. I'm just talking about my bishop. He's the only one I follow. I think I think that you would know. You heard it here first, people. Dave punches bishops. Dave. I have no idea who you're referencing. I don't have a Twitters. I actually have a secret one. Don't tell anyone. speaker-0 (05:48.524) I'm speaker-1 (05:50.462) Yeah, I remember you. I do. I literally I have a I have a X account. I got when it was changed to X Twitter. you know, you changed it to X.com. Anyway, I have one, but it's like Michael with like thirty seven numbers that I don't I don't know anything about it. And I just did it because I wanted to comment on like three things, and then I was like, I'm out of here, bye. Wait, No more, I have a I have a question for you about AI. go on about AI platforms. speaker-0 (05:58.646) Exactly. speaker-1 (06:19.126) Yes. Where where do you think which one do you think would would allow me to look up dosage for gray market peptides? Just call my brother. really? Is that is that true? My brother like pulls out stacks from his freezer of all things and I'm like, Where's the weirdest thing ever? Okay. I need to figure out how to re constitute my my Wolverine. I just got the Wolverine stack. yeah. And I'm pretty excited about it. Okay. Okay. Good. speaker-0 (06:50.144) Wait, wait, what is Since I'm not a real man, which I'm sure that Rachel loves to hear as well, what's the Wolverine stack? speaker-1 (06:58.176) It's the t B one fifty seven, I think, and then T B five hundred together. Yeah. I don't really Yeah, I'm not No, it's supposed to be for healing and for whatever. It's like d Dave, you injected it into your knee, right? And then all of a sudden your shoulder was healed or something. Yep. Yeah. yeah, but a long time. Yeah, it's an old It's been around for in like the bodybuilding community for just like steroids. speaker-0 (07:11.009) Okay. speaker-1 (07:26.082) The sir okay, but it's not like that. But the the Surmoralin changed my life completely. Which is good, yeah? Yeah, which is not really great, Mark. I you can you it's not it's just off label, you know. You go to like no, no, no, it's not like that. I I I've been on testosterone before where that happened, but no, not your not your not that part, no. Just your ego. Didn't definitely didn't do that either. speaker-0 (07:37.398) Is it truck your pay? speaker-0 (07:43.69) It shrunk your penis. speaker-0 (07:53.678) I just wanted to say shrunken penis. speaker-1 (07:55.342) Yeah, I figured that's what it was. That's on brand. speaker-0 (07:57.548) No, but back to back to the anger part. So I I didn't handle this very well, right? So I'm wondering speaker-1 (08:03.382) Shocker. No, go on. I love how you use our name for your weapon idea. speaker-0 (08:08.91) I deleted it because I like woke up in in the middle of the night and I like, I feel bad until then I deleted it. And then he finally blocked me on Twitter, which is fair. I just like I don't know where to go with that. I don't know where to go until like Dave as like a real man, where do you go with anger? Like like what do you do with it when you experience rage? Like, you like yeah, yeah. Kind like the you know, type of rage that's in in the first line of the Odyssey kind of. I'm sorry. speaker-1 (08:34.411) Yeah. Alien. yeah. Sorry. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I mean, that's why like I have a a friend who used to say that like when he would work out with me that he just wanted to get on the floor in the fetal position and just submit because he said like there was so much anger coming out of me when I would when I would lift weights. And and that's I think that's true. Like every time I lift, I have like a someone's face in my head or something like that. And that helps me a lot, I would say. Yeah. speaker-0 (09:01.966) So what you're saying is I should probably instead of tweeting, I should have just like done maybe like maybe five push ups on like on my knees, right? Kind of a thing. That's that's that's where we're at right now. speaker-1 (09:05.964) Yeah, we've got a few odd lips. speaker-1 (09:13.394) Maybe some shake weights. man. That's awesome. I would love to see Luke Ray like he's got two shake weights going. I feel uncomfortable. But the gains are undeniable. that's awesome. Who needs a peptide when you're this tone? speaker-0 (09:33.526) Feels so torn. speaker-0 (09:39.118) Am I blue like jazz? Or am I wild and hard? I don't speaker-1 (09:42.99) The thing with Luke is he can't lift weights. He can't lift that's right, I forgot about that. What about punching bag? No, that's not that's not a speaker-0 (09:52.654) If I were so I I could I thought about actually buying one because I really, really like boxing. And I could do it if I just keep my neck loose. So I couldn't do a thing like I tension hit. I have to be like speaker-1 (09:58.253) Yeah. speaker-1 (10:06.752) Yeah. What about running? Is that the is that th I like sometimes spreads for me do it yeah. speaker-0 (10:11.188) No, no, actually I think I find that when like I run that does help. Yeah. I I I think you're right, like that I'm physical. And like I mean like honestly too, a th a thing that actually like really does has help is like just through prayer, being like, Dear Lord, like I don't know what to do. You've gotta take this away because I can't deal like you know, 'cause and it's I find that as much as I wanna be like Christ in the temple, turning over tables for just for just reasons, I'm not Christ. I'm not good enough yet to be able to speaker-1 (10:26.222) Yeah. speaker-1 (10:40.822) And it do that. Turning over the tables never sits well with me. I mean, as much as it happens. It does not I don't like it. You know what I mean? I feel I feel off all night. Yeah. You know. speaker-0 (10:52.354) Same. Same. Like I feel, you know, and and again, like I don't even know if this is like a justifiable I This is just where I have I have a really tough time with this kind of like I find like a lot of stuff right now is being blamed on like bro podcast stuff. Yeah. But I don't know, or like the like manosphere. Like I saw if there was an article in the New York Times I think it was the New Yorker. They're talking about the dec the decline of like basically like men aren't reading a lot. speaker-1 (11:22.7) Yeah. speaker-0 (11:23.254) Anymore and they blamed it on Joe Rogan and Andrew Tate and I was like that's speaker-1 (11:28.419) I would I would bet you that Joe Rogan reads more than most of the people who read that speaker-0 (11:33.112) Yeah. I'm like a guy who like who all the publishers have authors go on his show to promote their stuff. I feel like that there's a you know, that's not and I I I just I think part of it is like what it's I just feel like there's this thing where it's like where do you I feel like it's very challenging for like because that like I think that like there there is a reason why the Iliad starts with the word rage. Yeah. It's just this innate on the it's this innate thing that's in a lot of men. Like I was I'm thinking about this a bit when I was driving here very, very late for the podcast. I apologize again. about how like, you know, one of Metallica's one of their like worst performing albums or whatever came, but it w they were like much later in their career, s say anger. Yeah. And it's like that never goes away. Like even when you're in your forties, it's like it it it kind of gets worse because you then have experience, you've got hurt, you've got all the stuff that you are bringing to that. So yeah, I just think it's really interesting about like where do you go with this? speaker-1 (12:33.826) Yeah, yeah. And I think you know, it never goes the way also because and it becomes worse because at that age is finally like I at 40 was when I was finally like, what the hell do I care what other people think about me? You know? If they want me if I f yeah, if they want to think I'm an angry old man, that's it's it's between me and God, you know, like I don't care. Yeah. No, I I found it too. Prayer prayer helps me a lot. I there's no question in my mind that I mean, there's there's definitely anger in my past that was confession style anger, right? Like hatred that I brought to the confessional over and over and over again. and it was just prayer, really. Yeah. It was healing and prayer and making my own mistakes and seeing like trying to see through that light and that kind of thing. But but I do say like just the normal everyday I I I I'll say this and and someone for sure is gonna listen to this and be like, see, Dave's part of the manosphere or something like that. Like watching the news right now for a normal man, it it should make you angry. Like you should be like, wait a minute, there's thousands of crimes being reported and no one being punished. What the hell? And there is that frustration, you know, and and I feel like, yeah, man, I gotta do something with that. And that's usually my workouts or something like that, you know. speaker-0 (13:57.11) Yeah. But I I I do think too, like when you are like one thing that I I have really learned is to back up my prayer with with action. Like just just to not allow I mean, obviously the the prayer is the first and the most important action. But I think that like, okay, God, take away my anger. I'm gonna go on like a run and just I'm gonna do my part, create the space for this to happen. That that that that goes a h a long way too. speaker-1 (14:21.676) Yeah. I I think yeah, say yeah, it yeah. When I was in my teens and twenties it was chastity, right? You pray and move. And now in my forties it's anger, right? Yeah, pray and move. speaker-0 (14:32.206) That's a really good point. Yeah. Yeah. No good. Gomer, w what do you do? speaker-1 (14:37.462) What do I do? Shannon just bounces him on her lap and like just just soothes him. There's just so much soothing. You're not wrong. pretty bird. Pretty bird. You know, you know what's funny? Like I would say maybe two or three years I had a lot of anger. Years ago. I had a lot of anger. And it wasn't about anything in particular. That's the weird see, this is the thing that people don't understand is like speaker-0 (14:43.234) Just lose it all. speaker-0 (14:50.614) Perfect. speaker-1 (15:07.168) It's just like a blanket over your life. And you're just like, what the hell? Why am I so angry? Like what is this coming from? Where is it going? I I I can honor answer truthfully now with a little bit of like I don't know, self-ownage, but like a lot of my anger at the world is actually my anger at myself and realizing like I can get angry at myself or I can change the thing. The other thing is, I am purposely not letting things bother me that used to bother me, where I just it it's just a mental reframe thing. But do you keep them out or do you just you reframe them. So you're still consuming something that you're seeing that would bother you in the past? so I I mean I give up the news in twenty nineteen. I've never me too. Me too. I mean, I might see something on like YouTube or something like that that pops up, but no, I don't And you know, like there was a time where I was kind of like locked in, like around the election, you know, a lot of news stuff. And then I just remember being like, I started following accounts that were like the other side of the news. And I'm like, screw this, screw this, screw this, screw them all. All they're doing is feeding me stuff like there's a certain element where I need to know certain things. I'd rather read that in a book or or a newspaper or something like later, later, later. Like when processing has been done. Exactly. Processing, right. Yeah, all the knee turks and I didn't realize it until I was at a friend's house and they had MSNBC or whatever it's called now on. And anytime it was like or not, it was CNN, every time there was a Republican, the the total tone of the show shifted to like like we're here talking to you know AOC, ha, you know, and it was like this cordial tone, and then it was a Republican, it was like adversarial immediately. And I was like, Good lord, could they be any more blatant? But then I went to my parents' house, which is like a 24-7 Fox News you know, my dad is a Fox News dad kind of thing from Shane Gillis. And you know, they how do they go how do Fox News parents go to sleep? angry. They get so angry they just fall asleep in their chair and then they mutter off to bed. But it was the exact same thing, just done in reverse, right? Every time there's a Democrat, it's like, you're an idiot, and blah, blah, blah. Right. And then when it's a Republican it's like, So I began to realize, like, not only is there a filter, the filter not that I began to realize we all know this, but the filter is meant speaker-1 (17:30.274) For clicks, not for truth. So why am I feeding myself with that? Then the other shift comes to things that like are in my friend group that are personally anger inducing, right? So like there's a lot of things that piss me off right now. There's a lot of things going on that I wish were different. But there is this, I I don't know what it is. Honestly, I I would say it's the last four months, six months, even where I'm just like, nah, I'm not gonna let myself get bothered about that. Like I and it's still there. I'm still engaging with it. I'm not like like putting my head in the sand. I'm just like, no. I can't. Yeah. My thinking about it and stewing on it isn't gonna fix it. If I'm not gonna call the person because I don't think I should, I'm not a part of it, the drama or whatever, no matter how unjust I think things are. I'm just I'm just gonna let it die within me. And honestly, I I don't know how good you guys are at putting things out of your mind. Some things I can't, but these things I've just learned to be like, nope. I I'm not gonna waste Any more time on it. And you know, Shannon is dealing with certain things. And I see, like, I'm almost nervous to ask her. I I used to be like this. My my parents are or my mom is very much like this. Shannon's very much like this. Katiri's very much like this. When you retell the story, all of the original emotions come out as if they're still living through it. You know, like it's it's happening. And so I'm just like, yo, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I just need the bullet points. Cause right now you're you're too emotionally charged. And she'll catch herself. She'll be like, I need to calm down for a second. I'm like, okay, I didn't say that. I'm not gonna tell a hysterical woman to calm down. But this sandwich isn't gonna make itself. Man, no speed. my God. Sorry, sorry. But I'm so it is weird. It is weird. I'm just like, no. And it's not like a switch, but it's like a dial. And that dial gets turned down and it's just like I'm a lot less angry right now. And I I will say I've been, you know, exercising every day. I've been lifting weights. I've been You know, going on walks and I I just before this podcast, I just sat in the sunset and just I turned my chair so it's on my face and I'm just sitting there with some Aristotle. And I just turned my or some Play Doh and I just turned my brain off, you know, like and that's like Play Doh, like what you like. No, the toy. Yeah, not the sun. Yeah. speaker-0 (19:46.456) Well no, I I I think you hit on two really interesting things, Gomer, which is one, what really has your attention? You're such someone clearly likes Limbiscuit. speaker-1 (19:55.68) I take notes while w you guys talk and I draw. speaker-1 (20:02.478) Yeah. my gosh. What dude? Come on. Yeah, I'm handsome. speaker-0 (20:06.594) He looks so much better than that. Yeah. there are on the link right now who are swooning for watching this. Swooning. speaker-1 (20:15.598) That's it. The thing no one asked for Gomer's perpetually wearing a sweater vest, known as my body ear. speaker-0 (20:23.714) No, but like the the ability to be like what really has my my attention, right? Is it this stuff here or like is it like would I be better served by like engaging with Aristotle, engaging with Plato, and engaging with things that are true, good, and beautiful, which which I think is very important to do. And I think that really does does help. But then two is Gomer, I think you kinda hit on this, which is basically like what actually can I control and what can I let go of? And like where is the To live and let live. Come in. I I don't know right now where to define that line between I need to let this go and I no, this really needs my attention. speaker-1 (21:03.81) The I have a a a major difficulty staying out of the rad trad modern debate, Vatican II debate, you know. I I no, no, I stay out of it, but I have I emotionally I have a hard time staying out of it. Yeah, and I had a conversation with Peter Krieft and he actually said almost the same line as Gomer that almost exactly he said, Do you find that any of those posts are well processed? speaker-0 (21:20.14) I mean speaker-1 (21:33.826) And it's like, no, that's why I'm getting so angry that you're like that you're that you're like saying all these things like like when is the last time you saw a rad trad even talk about like the sexual revolution? No, no, it was all just it happened at at this Vatican Council. Like that's what ruined the world completely. Nothing else happened. There was no there was nothing else, you know, that caused every every ill, right? And you're like screaming at the screen, like, okay, what about history? What about the sexual revolution? What about all of these things? speaker-0 (21:36.974) Was it? speaker-1 (22:01.676) Right. And you're not even acknowledging that there was like historical context to any of the changes in the rest of society. But anyways, my point is like I think you're right. Like and and and even like Gomer, I think about this with the forming intentional disciples Facebook group. Like I don't even really go anymore because I feel like so many of the posts are like and I'm I'm not trying to be arrogant, but I want to be like, whoa, I I was I'm way farther down the rabbit hole than that. Like I like I don't even I don't even want to read it like that, like that. You're like I thought about that ten years ago. You know what I mean? Like it's it's hasn't been as beneficial to me. Yeah. For those who don't know what we're talking about, Sherry Waddell wrote a book, Form Intentional Disciples, and she started a Facebook group that's invite only well permission. It's amazing. It's amazing. And yeah, and in the especially in the early, I'm actually still a moderator. Whoopsie. but there's we got super involved in I was on it. I I would check it with your email. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the conversations were incredible. The main person. Yeah. And then yeah. And then you know, Bobby and all these other people who were just contributing just great stuff. And she kept a really tight rein on like no liturgy wars, none of this. Right. But that also meant that people like Father Dave got sacrificed when he's trying to show how liturgy and discipleship, you know, you can you can leverage the two. And so but you know, whatever, that's her group. She gets to do whatever she wants with it. But I I step back just because I stepped away from Facebook, you know, ten years ago, eight years ago, whatever it was. But man, I I'll say the sometimes groups like that, it becomes like what I make of it, which is a flex to show people how cool I am, you know, like whatever the group is. And it's like see I'm evangelizing people. Then you hear one story from Dave Van Vickel and you're like, I've never evangelized a soul in my life. But but but but compared to like like when I like sometimes when I go back, I'm like And this is so airy. It's it sounds like the most arrogant thing I probably ever have ever said that I'm like, all right, come talk to me in ten years. You know what I mean? Like that the it's like still they're sh still training like very young evangelists and it's like, Yeah, I have bigger problems that that I need to look at. So, anyways, right. speaker-0 (24:19.19) No other I think can can you give an example that it again it doesn't like have to be real, just or just an idea of like what speaker-1 (24:27.948) Yeah, I mean I mean there are still times I don't I don't know how recent this would be, but an example would be like, guys, I'm trying to decide between alpha and discovering Christ. And these are the things I really like. And it's like, dude, that go back ten years. Look up the look there. There are a million are you know, like like I cannot listen to this. You know, yeah. speaker-0 (24:49.602) Well and and I think like a lot of that stuff too is looking for like an answer. Yeah. Right? You know, I'm sorry, right. Of course they're looking for answer, but it's like just w tell me like one thing and that I gotta do. And it's like, well this is actually Yeah. Like you've gotta ex you've got to experience. speaker-1 (25:04.018) And Sherry's good about that. She's good about that. Sherry calls it the silver bullet. Everyone's looking for the silver bullet and she will immediately call you out on it. And I think we were on the f the cusp of the wave. so it's like now we're like, dude, come on. I can't like we need another group for people who are past that, you know, or something like that. Anyways, my whole point is saying like so much of what goes on the internet, I'm like Yeah, I'm not even gonna read you you haven't thought this this is ten years behind what I've already struggled with in my life. You know, like yeah. speaker-0 (25:40.61) Well and and two I I I think you will like I've been reading Infinite Jest. I have a goal to try to finish it as like quickly as I can. I'm I'm not sure if like you're if like you know on what book it is, but it's by it's by d David Foster Wallace. It was written in the like early mid nineties. It is one thousand plus pages long and it predicts everything we've experienced from the internet and what it does to us and like speaker-1 (25:46.968) Okay. speaker-1 (26:05.462) Really? speaker-0 (26:08.344) How basically he's saying, like, we are now like dehumanized. And we are like one step from, you know, he's got this great part where there is his radio host. Her name is like Madame Cycosis. And she's saying, like, come all you freaks, come on. And she like goes through this like litany of stuff that people have where you like are deformed, you got you have like emotional like on the wounds and stuff. And then and you basically are trying to see how like she's bringing all he's trying to bring all these people together, but they're still alone. He's basically predicting parasocial relationships. Of like, so you have this thing where you feel like you're not like you have a person like you're able to identify with, but you're actually still alone. So you're one step removed from being actu like actually human. And I think there's a wealth of stuff out there that because it takes work and we feel like we don't have the time, like how many people speaker-1 (26:45.678) Trauma bonding. Trauma bonding. speaker-0 (27:07.318) Who sit down to when they start their on like ministry job, if they just read evangelization in the in the modern world, would have you know, would have the playbook. Like it's right there. Right in the 60s. But we think because it's not from right now, it's not but it's like, no, like the church actually has this beautiful document that I still go back to and I'm like, holy cow, like it's you know, like that's for me, that is and that's an example of my 10 years where it took me some time to really com comprehend that, to experience that. And now I feel like I anytime I hear a new evangelization strategy or product, I'm just kind of like, why do I need this? This is right here. speaker-1 (27:51.69) Right. No, I'm I'm a hundred percent with you. Can I can I tell you something? the as I was preparing for my I had three classes that started today. So I had full seventh and eighth grade philosophy class, ninth grade theology, tenth grade theology, and I've been freaking out about the philosophy one 'cause I have to create it from whole cloth because there's not really a good middle school Catholic classical kind of philosophy stuff. So I'm trying to do it and I'm d we're just using the five dialogues of Plato, you know, the the Euthyphro and the apology and stuff like that. And they're great. They're great. They're super short, super skinny. It's a nine dollar book, whatever. And so, like, I but I'm just like, it rekindled. I sent this in a text to our friends. It rekindled it so hard a love of this stuff, of like philosophy and like throwing myself into it. I sent a text to our college chat group where I was like, The old two o'clock in the morning, Gomer wearing ski cap and goat tee hair, you know, having these lazy debates, it's all coming back. And it's it's funny it is. Yeah, listen to the Deft Tones. But there was a great line from Peter Craft where he was talking about why, you know, one of the reasons why they killed Socrates in this book right here, Socrates one one or Philosophy one on one, and he said, most people will forgive you when you're wrong and they are right, but rare is the per a rare Is it when someone will when the people will forgive you for being right when they are wrong? Wrong. Yeah. And I just I like wrote that down on a card. And I just like this morning at like 6 a.m. I just held that out there with my cup of coffee. And I'm just like, damn, that is so freaking true. There are some like bits of wisdom that hit you, and you just immediately, it's like, I can think of six instances in my life where, you know, I you know, people just have turned their backs on you because you were right. And not in a neater neater neater way, but just no, sure. You're just right and they will they will happily burn your f years long friendship because it they're wrong and they don't want to be wrong, so they're not gonna have you in their life. And it's like, wow. Yeah, that's the that's the art of that's the ego protection to the extreme when you're willing to sacrifice friendships for that and stuff like that. I don't know. It's it's interesting. That was a pretty that was a soul hitting one. I don't know. Didn't really register with you guys. It's fine. It was fine. speaker-0 (30:15.426) No. I felt like like I remember feeling like the first real breakdown of like our college friends of where like people kind of started like really not like I mean of course the people started to live their own lives. It was about ten years after we had all gr graduated during the Trump election. There were people getting croup kicked out of group text or coming in on black. speaker-1 (30:15.884) No, actually did, yeah. speaker-1 (30:39.854) But twenty sixteen. speaker-0 (30:41.804) Yeah. Yeah. And it just like it like and it really did impact a lot of relationships. Yeah. Of people that like I was like rebuilding our relationships, you know, just because you were like hanging out again or a bit or you were seeing them, then it got kind of weird. It's like, I thought I could talk about this with you and I can't. And yeah, I'm trying to figure it out. And yeah, it's that's Yeah. And then that all then it of course happened again in 2020. speaker-1 (31:03.768) So yeah. I so we we brought Dave on. Dave, Dave pitched this to me on Tuesday morning, and I was like, holy shit, yes. He just said, Gormly, I want to come on catching foxes this week and I want to talk about fighting. Yeah. And I was like, yes. Yes. Yes. But you so the best line of this week was someone sent me a text that their like six year old child said. speaker-0 (31:05.847) Yay. speaker-1 (31:30.55) Will you put on Mr. Thomas or Thomas's dad his podcast so he could I can hear the knife fight story again? Yeah, I'm fine. I'm I'm cleared of contempt of court for that. So good. You can let you can let your listeners know. Unless you told them off because you were on a family vacation. Will you come get get my kids with in their wheelchairs? You get come pull me off this beach? Like to see you try. Yeah. Yeah, that would have been it would have been a scene for sure on YouTube. Like you'd be like, I'm in international water. Come on out and get me. I'm in the internet. Backstrokes. Come on. I can do this all day. I have my pre-workout. Okay, so hey, there was this place that in where near where I grew up in Dallas. It was called Burger Lake. And it was a man made lake, but it had like slides going into it and like the mushrooms that like spit out water and stuff like that. But it was lake water, okay? speaker-0 (32:04.61) Yeah. speaker-1 (32:29.928) And I could like hold my breath for so long when I was young, like like unbelievably long, right? I'd say you know, thinking I'm gonna go be like a special forces guy or something like that. So I we would go to this and my friends would be like, they would pay me, literally, like, I'll give you five dollars if you go under the water, swim up to someone, take them under and then swim away. And this is like something I mean, this is before phones, like you couldn't But people would be like, Someone's got me You know, like screaming. I pull under and then I'd swim away as fast as I can and like come up. You know, like I'd be zigzagging like so hard to try to make sure that they didn't see me. speaker-0 (33:15.788) Like nightmares BTSD from there. speaker-1 (33:20.33) Right. And then you come out of the water and you're like, I'm just kidding. And then they see what you look like and they're like, No, this is nightmare fool. Still, still. No, I mean that was the that was the the the time from eighth grade until like I got to Franciscan when I was ego fighting. You know, and so like if my friend my friends could talk me into doing anything, you know. Yeah. So let's tell let's tell your history with fighting, like you know, your training, you're this, you're that. Like what what's your background? You're Taekwondo, right? I mean, that's how I started. I've done everything. I've done ev I believe I'm pretty sure. Have you done Dekundo? No, I mean that's not even it's hard to Have you done all the real things? Yes, I've done I've done Mai Thai, I've done lots of jujitsu, lots of Aikido, karate, kickboxing, wrestling, all that kind of stuff. but yeah, Taekwondo like my f my start. And No, no, I would say okay, fifth grade. Fifth grade. But what I would say is that I have I I'm pretty sure that I have done every single kind of legal and illegal fighting that there is. Now I I never did like pancraze, but I did things like pancraze. And I was never it was like the thing that now he's just had this conversion, he's like doing Catholic videos. what's his name? Bass Rutten. Yes, okay. Yeah, yeah, pancreas. and I've and I never did like official UFC, but I did I've done been in a few cage fights and things like that. but I I'm pretty sure I've done every single kind of like illegal and legal fighting that there that there is. speaker-0 (35:01.634) been in a basement where guys in like who clearly came from like some like some like job like finance or like put like money down and speaker-1 (35:10.382) Absolutely. Absolutely. Not a basement, but like but like a usually it's like a train yard or something like that. Or like a a factory or some people are like, No, you're lying. No, I have a hundred percent. In fact, in fact, I used to k I I remember when Amber would she was so nervous I was gonna get arrested, but I was making so much money at the time. And I said to her, like, Amber, you don't have to worry because it was it was the actually the chief of police who ran this. It was like a it was that's who That's who ran it when I was speaker-0 (35:41.27) Some of those who run forces are the same for speaker-1 (35:44.108) Exactly right. This is a full Rage Against the Machine episode, right? Damn. Yeah. And it was yeah, it was like usually you got into it because I you know, I always worked for the church and I always needed extra money, so I worked as a bouncer. And so you'd meet these people like from the kind of underworld. But but again, all of that got ruined by the UFC because they bought everything. They bought every fighting channel, including the illegal ones. They they had shut down everything pretty much. Interesting. speaker-0 (36:13.411) That's so speaker-1 (36:13.89) Crazy. Also I drew a picture of you doing Taekwondo. Well, you didn't have to draw a picture because you here here's an interesting fact about me. So the the time when I did Taekwondo, it's now known as the golden age of Taekwondo. This is true. Okay, true. Okay. And when it when it joined when Taekwondo be became a full metal sport in the Olympics, it got ruined completely because it was too too violent. Okay. And so they were like In the Olympics it was too violent? Yeah, way too violent. Okay. So so so it's similar to like Pro boxing going into Olympic boxing. Okay. But but more intense because Taekwondo's all legs. It's all head kicks. It's like a almost, it's like 80% head kicks, right? And so, so what they were like is like, look, we're gonna give you a point for hitting the right spot, but we're gonna take away a point if you hit too hard. And so it got ruined. So when I was doing it, it was like you just you went out there and you you tried to hit someone, you tried to kick their head off, you know? And so now it's known as like the golden age. And so It's pretty common like that my kids will be like, Dad, can we look can we look for you on Instagram? And we'll find competitions that I was in on Instagram because it's like now they're like, We gotta go back to the golden age. Isn't that crazy? Dude. speaker-0 (37:31.724) And no, sorry tonight. speaker-1 (37:34.7) Yeah. Please send us those. I have a great one. Please send it to us. Yeah, I will. Yeah, I will. speaker-0 (37:42.102) Okay, how do I put this? How is how do you reconcile that with your Christianity? Yeah, I'm not trying to say that that that that it's unreconciled. I'm I don't know the I don't know a better way to ask that. speaker-1 (37:54.926) I'll let you into that to that question. I'll let you into that wrestling match that I've had my whole life. I would say I with competition, the the the wrestling match isn't like hurting another person, right? Because it's like two people who have trained their whole life. It would almost be cruel to not let them trust it. Okay. But the the the wrestling match is just vain glory. The the The egos of fighters are bigger than any other ego I I'm sure of any athlete. And it is so big, it's terrible. And so like, you know, I don't know if I've ever told you the story, Gomer, I I doubt I told you Luke, but like I when I like really started to like try to change my life at Franciscan, I mean I had already had a real relationship with the Lord, you that. You guys met knew me from when I was a freshman. But when I was really trying to change my life, I like threw away my medals. Because it was like I this is this is not who I want. I don't want that part of my life anymore. Like that's that was kind of a thing. And yeah, actually Amber found that like got them out of the garbage and saved them. So I like I event I f I just recently found them again. my gosh. Yeah. And so my gosh, what a guess. Yeah, because she was like, Well, that's stupid. Like, why would you do that? Yeah. But like it was more that kind of thing. Now with fighting other kinds of fighting, like people people hear stories like the knife fight and they think like I mean, you guys know me. I'm a friendly, nice guy. Like, and I don't look like a bouncer. I'm not like a scary person. But I'm not a bitch either. Like, I'm not gonna like just roll over if someone like. Do you know what I mean? Like, I'm not, yeah, yeah. I'm just not that guy. Like, I like so I feel like, yeah, is have I gone too far at times? And do I feel like I have to confess that in confession? Absolutely. Are we living in a time when I feel like We better err a little bit more on the side of of like justice, then yeah, I also think that. Like i i if somebody's doing something wrong and somebody needs to step up and knock that guy out, I I'll I'm gonna do it. Yeah, you know, or or unless you're unclear. Unless somebody else is more qualified to do it, which now I'm getting old, you know, like like when I sl when I suplexed that guy with the knife, I wrenched every bone in my body. I my knee hurts so bad still to this day from speaker-0 (40:19.918) No, but like you save that woman's life though by doing that, right? You know what I mean? Like that's and like that's that is the thing. Like there's there is a I think it's like I've got a good buddy of mine who's a pacifist and we talk about this a lot about like what does like what does that look like and what is it just caused and what is all that stuff and it's and it's like as much as like that isn't like an ingrained part of yourself that ability to fight, I feel like his pacifism is that so authentic. And I there is part of me that does kind of wonder like, is this just the body of Christ act like actual speaker-1 (40:54.85) Well i you know it it that's interesting. See I like that. Bishop Baron and Gomer and Gomer will tell you that like I'm as I'm as libertarian as a Catholic can be. Like I don't like I don't like war, I don't like any of that stuff. You know, like I I'm pretty much anti any war. and and and more so each day. So but I'm also not But what if we call it the Strait of Van Vickel? Are you willing? Are you willing to concede? That's great. Then I'm going. I'm going. But it is funny because you know, you know, it's funny. Like, did you see? I don't know if you guys follow because you I know you don't watch a lot of news, but there was this this soldier that went to Iran who's from Iraq and supposedly our soldiers are afraid of this guy. He's like Mr. Tough Guy, and he was training these Iranian soldiers. Have you heard about this guy? I can't remember what they call him. Like the sergeant slaughter of Iran or something like that. And and that, I mean, a hundred percent gets me. Like that is right right where my heart is. Like, I will face him right now in one way. In combat, like there's no question in my mind. Like Trump selected me as your champion. speaker-0 (42:03.111) Big wants to fight on nineteen ninety Surgeon Slaughter where they had him be like an Iraq guy to fight Hul Hul Hulk Hogan at SummerSlam. speaker-1 (42:11.158) Right, exactly. Right. but I We're talking about the war on the shore. But you know, even even in like self-defense situations, I felt horrible. And I, you know, I I like one one night after I was working at shenanigans, which is the the last bar I worked as a bouncer at, it was the night before Thanksgiving, and I threw this guy out and he he he told me I'm coming back with friends. I knew he was gonna come back. I knew this guy was gonna come back. And so I lock the bar, I'm the last person there, and I'm walking to my truck, and sure enough, you know, there there he is, like line leaning up against my truck. And I'm like, dude, you don't want to do this. Like I have to go home to my family. Like you like think what do you have to go home to? Because I'm pretty sure my motivation is better than you. Like, you know, it's bigger than you. And and so right as soon as I like start walking towards him, one of his friends like comes up behind me and sticks a knife in my back. And he's got it there and he's like, he's like, come on, come on, come on, come get him, come get him, you know? And I can feel it kind of like poking into me, but it's not stabbing me yet, you know? And so I'm still talking to the guy. I'm like, listen, man, you do not want to do this. Like, stop do like I can already tell you're not you don't know what you're doing because you should have stabbed me right off the bat. Like like like this is not a good situation for you to be in. Yeah. So another friend comes to grab me, and what they want is to hold me so this guy can, you know, d do a number on me. And so, anyways, I I just I I knocked the crap out of these three guys. What no, no, no. What play by play. Yeah. So I'm like so I'm like, okay, this guy's got a chunk out of my back with this knife, which my kids still stick their finger in and they think it's funny, but it makes me feel like weird. So he's like digging the point into your back. Yeah. Yeah. speaker-0 (43:50.286) Yeah, I gotta win. speaker-1 (44:05.718) Yeah. And so I whip around, crack him once he's out. The guy who's holding me on the series. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's I mean, there it I mean, if you've been around bars enough, there's a there's a place on somebody's head that it ninety ninety eight percent of the time you get hit there, you're gonna you're gonna go to sleep. Okay. So swing back to the other guy, hit him, you know, he's out completely cold. I grab the knife, throw it on the roof, w and The guy who was waiting for me, who I threw out, he runs. He runs, jumps in his car, leaves his buddies back. So I'm like, all right, it's three in the morning at six AM. Like Amber's gonna be up making a turkey for Thanksgiving and family's gonna be here by 10. You know, I'm gonna be we're gonna be watching the parade. I gotta get home. But I start to feel the blood and I'm like, crap, this is more than I can take care of at home. I need to go to the emergency room, you know. So I'm driving and I see in my mirror those guys are still knocked out. So I pull back. I feel terrible, you know? Like, what's gonna happen to them on Thanksgiving? Like, is their family waiting for them? So I throw them in the back of the truck, you know. In the bed? Yes, in the bed. I have so much human cargo. I go to the hospital. I go in, I park, they're like, hey, you can't leave your truck there. I was like, well, I I have there's two guys in the back that need to be seen. And I was like, but I really need to be seen first. And so the cop is like, what happened? And I'm like. I they tried to beat me up. I I you know I got stabbed, like and like all of the video will be at shenanigans if you want to see it, like you'll you'll be able to see it, you know. And so they get out, they f you know, fix these guys up and everything. They're fine by the time they leave. But I felt terrible, you know, like I felt awful. You know, you see someone like you're wondering if they're breathing and you feel bad. Yeah, of course. Yeah. But I also am not I'm not gonna back down on flips. speaker-0 (46:01.812) No well I mean and in that situation like you should not. Like you're you've got a job to to protect the people who are there. Like they all they all deserve to have l to ha have a safe place to go to on Black Wednesday and or whatever it's called and like speaker-1 (46:18.604) It's the number one drinking day of the year. Yeah. Yeah. speaker-0 (46:20.716) Like people have a right to go and be with their friends and enjoy it in like a safe way and presumably everyone's doing safe things. Right. You know, and that's that's not a bad thing. Like that's not no because I remember probably and I think this is like a good example of like it's good to have people when you have to like when stuff gets bad, it's good to have a person who's got your back because I I remember the most confident I've ever been, or one of like coolest moments in college was d do you remember the first you don't belong party? That was so speaker-1 (46:46.968) That we had. Vaguely. speaker-0 (46:49.89) There was a guy who came that we did not want there. And I was like, dude, can you please leave? Like we don't we're we aren't friends with you. This this it's supposed to be like you don't get along, like this is you know, like please and he's like, and he like and I just see you come bolting towards him, like, this guy's fucked. Like I was like, god, I can do whatever I want. speaker-1 (46:57.066) yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. speaker-1 (47:08.097) It was funny because that Franciscan people were kind of like, What is wrong with that? Like anyone who saw that side was like, Who is this guy? You know, like and I felt weird. It felt so weird there. So I kinda tried to hide it a little bit, you know. But I speaker-0 (47:25.89) Just like you bolted, like you were so and like your face was like locked in. And I was just like, dude, please just leave. Like you're just gonna but not you this like you're like you just make everything worse. Please go. Like don't move. speaker-1 (47:33.389) Got it. speaker-1 (47:37.006) It was awful. You know, my my s my f very first week at Franciscan, I was at Rooney's. Do you remember Rooney's? Mm-hmm. And and I've told you the story about the guy aggressively farting. I told you the story. Have I told you the story? Aggressively farting. I don't I don't I don't think I like that's one I'm just a freshman, man, and I didn't drink, remember? Like I w I'm not a drinker really. speaker-0 (47:48.454) yeah. speaker-2 (47:59.64) So I'm speaker-1 (48:05.43) You know, like especially out like that, you know. And so I'm going to the bathroom and this guy comes in, he's in the other he's at the other urinal and he's looking me in the eye and he just farts as loud as he can. And I'm like, Was this a student or is this towny townie? Yeah. And I'm like, You're gross, man. And then he farts longer and louder and looks me in the eye, and I'm like, You're disgusting, dude. And you know, I used to get mad about stuff like that. Like that used to really set me off. So I'm like. speaker-0 (48:20.75) County. speaker-1 (48:33.9) Going to wash my hands and he's like, Come on, bro, calm down. And he goes to hug me. And I go, get your hands off me, dude. You haven't even washed your hands, you know? And so he's gets mad, and we get into a scuffle and we end up ripping the paper towel holder off the wall. And so the cops take took me, right? And so Professor Wilson had to come and at my trial, this is a true story. At my trial, they wait the the bailiff like read the thing and he's like, Public menace, he's charged with public menacing destruction of private property due to aggressive farting. And he's and and literally the judge is like, What? Is this a joke? And he's like, That's what it says, Judge. Like, that's what it says. And that's what 'cause that's what I told the cop. I was like, he farted at me. The funniest thing about that is it's not the farting, it's the staring at another into another man's eye. He thought he was being so funny. Yeah. Do you know what'd be funny is if is if before you farted he goes Excuse me, sir, but can I interest you in a conversation about your car's extended warranty? speaker-0 (49:44.942) Like he knows you're not a local. speaker-1 (49:49.322) Right, right, exactly. Yeah, that was it was a total yeah. speaker-0 (49:52.456) Right. That's one of those things where it's you're trying to make like you're trying to have a thing happen here. speaker-1 (49:56.942) Yeah. You are a menace. That's exactly what that means. You're a menace. Yeah. speaker-0 (49:59.608) Yeah. So is there anything specific that like as as it relates like what is it about like fighting that like you would want our listeners to know? Anything specific? speaker-1 (50:15.842) I mean, it's not like the movies, that's what I would say. Like, you know, the the you I'll tell you a funny phenomenon that happens when you're a bouncer. This happens almost every weekend night. Is a kid who is not normally with the cool crowd comes out with the cool crowd, he drinks way too much, and he decides he's gonna fight the bouncer. And that's that's like a common phenomenon that I've watched at bars, and it's just like, dude, this is not the movies. It's not gonna work. Do you know they There was a study done. I'll have to find it for you guys. There was a study done for on American men that the average American male thinks he's 400% more effective in a fight in his mind than he actually is in real life. 400% more effective. And it's just like it's just funny. Like, so I mean, a guy who, if you've been in a few fights, like you have a lot of experience, you know, I it could just it it you like that that gives you so much. But like, you know, the problem is I I I told Gomer, I've been working on this book about it. Right, for my sons. And and the and the book is kind of like a tone. It's kind of like Hillbilly elegy in the sense of like like, well, what happened is UFC ruined fighting and then drugs ruined fighting because now you have to worry about guns and you know, getting arrested and stuff like that. Ruined street fighting ruin street fighting. But like when I was younger I mean, there was still w like my neighborhood. I mean, I grew up in suburbia, you know, like I was pretty sheltered and everything. My brothers were evil, but so I was always fighting them really in my whole life. But but there was there was definitely times where it was like, Hold on a second, this is our neighborhood and we'll fight like whoever whoever wants to come from your neighborhood, like we'll I'll fight you, you know, like that kind of thing. And now you can't do that. The FBI would be at your house, you know, like yeah, like it's not the same as it used to be. speaker-0 (52:05.344) Yeah. Technology ruins everything. speaker-1 (52:07.854) Now they got a damn flock camera at the entrance of our neighborhood and my bag and my biceps are labeled lethal weapons. It's awesome. Well and I well, and you what, you know what else? Like, we didn't know what concussions were back then. We had no idea. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Like he's just a little loopy and he keeps asking for orange juice. I don't know what to do. Right. Just take a nap. Right. Yeah. You know what's interesting is I think about like how you were describing, like you feel bad, you you know, you do all this stuff. The the funny thing is like People like me who don't know how to fight, who I'm the four hundred percent crowd. that's what I'm gonna call I'm a four hundred percenter. And no one's You're probably more realistic than that. Thank you. I would say Yeah, I'd I'd say I I would say you at least two hundred I mean I mean you're not gonna fight the bouncer at a bar. No. Like that's you're insane to do, you know. No, but I'm not paying full price for that top shelf tequila, cuz let me talk to your manager. don't okay. no, but this is what I was gonna say. You you have strength and skill. So it not just being a bouncer, but you are open to situations where probably normal dudes would just be like, I'm not going there. And so you find yourself in crazy places. Like you take food. You know, into Pittsburgh's ghetto to right, you know, for a family. Like a lot of people might be like, Yeah, you can come to my house and pick it up. I don't want to go on Martin Luther King Boulevard, you know, like we all know that. Well, and people put me in that situation too. Peep people like Amber knew you know, she was she would put me in those situations where like I like I vividly remember a a couple from Franciscan. I won't I won't say names or anything, but we were out as like on a couple's date. And these guys had just sold their businesses. They were like they were like like Wall Street. I mean they looked like they were from Wall Street, they're older, but big guys, and they were drinking and they were they were having a great time, but they kept bumping into his girlfriend, you know, and you know, I very calmly corrected them a few times because it what it really was they were just drunk. It wasn't a big deal, you know. Yeah, they weren't trying to be obnoxious. No, but at one point, like they fall onto speaker-1 (54:24.642) his fiancee, who it was, and and and become a kind of aggressive, right? And so he's gonna get up and he is just terrified. And Amber said to him, We'll just we'll call him James. He she goes, James, just sit down. Dave will take care of it. You know, like like, okay, thanks, Amber. Right? Like I'll go fight these five guys, you know, like sure. Like, you know, but but but it but it was yeah, that kind of thing. And that's how that restaurant got its name, because Dave turned their face into hamburger. Who knows speaker-0 (54:54.758) I I really do think that there is there is a thing about like the real fighter doesn't want to do it. yeah. speaker-1 (55:00.566) Hope you don't have to. Yeah. I mean, I you know, I told my kids the other it's funny because my boys asked me all the time about fights and and the other day I finally said to them, like, guys, you realize like I was probably a fifty percent fighter. I mean, I lost a lot, you know, like i i if I if I added everything, I was probably especially in competition, I was definitely a fifty percent fight. There were guys who were better than me. That's just the way it was, right? But yeah, when you add in like street fights, then it's I I'm I probably was better than that. But like it probably was a lot better than that. But it still wasn't I wasn't a hundred percent I'm not like some legend for sure, you know? Yeah. Yeah. What did you do to the five guys? do you re I can't say people are gonna hate me. No one's gonna hate Everyone's gonna think that you're the coolest person in the world like I do right now. So so let's just say that they ended up having To untie their ties. Yeah. I had him on the ground enough subdued that I could tie their ties together. Wait, wait, did he like pull them by their tie? What are they what is he talking about? You tied all five of their ties or just two guys or what? So like if I'm fighting a group of guys, the first thing I'm gonna do is suplex two of them, you know? And just tell people what a suplex is. So I'm gonna slip behind you, grab you by the waist and slam you on your neck, like as hard as I can so that so that you're at least too scared to come back into the fight, right? You might not be incapacitated, but you'll be at too scared to come back in the store. speaker-0 (56:37.166) okay wait. I have a quick question. Do you know how to do that and not kill them? Okay, okay. speaker-1 (56:43.18) Yeah, yeah. They they can they can really fight back in a suit. It looks so much worse than it is. Okay. So like I if you've ever seen like trans thing like Dan Severin's first first UFC fight, he suplexes this guy like twenty-five times and you're like, my gosh, this this guy's has to be dead and he's perfectly fine, you know. But it's shocking because you're like, my gosh, this person just manhandled me way worse than I ever Yeah, dreamed anyone. So they're like, I'm out of here, you know, that kind of a thing. yeah. So like, so that's that was the first two then then and they kind of just were like rolling around as I just started to hit the other guys. Well, so then one guy swang, and that's when I started actually punching. And so at one point, finally I had them all three on top of each other. And I, you know, if you get them on top of each other, then you only have to worry about the top guy. And so I had them and I and and I just sure enough reached down, grabbed all the ties up, and I started like tying them into this big knot, and then I dragged them outside. It was it was it was yeah, it was crazy. Nobody and the and the worst part was when I got back, Amber was like, You didn't have to tie the knot. Like that. Yeah, like you didn't have to recommend. speaker-0 (57:50.655) Dave, I love you. speaker-0 (58:02.712) Like that's that's that's awesome. Well, you know, like David, I'm being totally honest here. If I had to pick a person to fight on like behalf of my family, like I need a person to fight speaker-1 (58:05.568) Right, exactly. Right. speaker-1 (58:15.283) I would kill I would kill for you. No, I wouldn't kill for you. But I would fight for you. speaker-0 (58:19.374) Please that's been a kill for you. No, but like speaker-1 (58:21.558) Remember when the tiger got out in Houston, I for sure was it ready to head down to g to protect Gomer from the tiger? Do you remember it was in his it was in his neighborhood. It was. It was very scary. speaker-0 (58:31.606) You can go and take like Joey, but not my Gomer. no, but like 'cause I know you care about other people and you care about like you want to do the wr like do do the right thing. And there's I mean it's it's kind of the lesson of Team America world police. Some people have to be a wusses and some people have to be fighters. Like speaker-1 (58:54.38) Yeah, I'll I'll I'll give you that. What I would say is that like I'm I've never fought angry in my life. Ever. Ever. Never fought angry in my life. I the you know every time that I've ever been angry, as I'm walking out to fight that person, I'm like, all right, calm down. This is a person. no, I'm with you. No, I'm with you. But my point is like that's why like I was a good bouncer because I I was nice. You know, like I did not like bouncers are usually guys who want speaker-0 (59:12.342) Yeah, I mean. speaker-1 (59:24.482) They are there because they want to screw you up. You know, like they're they're gonna they're gonna pull crap like that, you know. Yep. And and yeah, and a few times like I fought for a few times I fought for money and I feel bad about it now, but I needed the money. You know, like I like there was a there there was a a cage match in Buffalo, you know, that was like s it was double no single elimination, but it was sixteen fights in two nights. Which is a night I mean it it's literally like you're killing yourself for money, right? Like that's what it's like. Like to you know, to do something like that. But I desperately needed I had Mac we just had max and we had medical bills and I didn't know what else to do, you know, and that's so that's what I did, you know. And and how did that work out? Yeah, I won. I won it was Buffalo's toughest bouncer. I got a have a belt in my gym that says Buffalo Stuffest Bouncer on it. Like a like a WWF belt is what you want. Well speaker-0 (59:59.053) Yeah. speaker-0 (01:00:22.04) No, but speaker-1 (01:00:23.234) What was that like? it was awful. It was awful. I've in fact we've been looking for it lately because we're we're remodeling our basement, but I have a picture somewhere of I couldn't afford the the the locker rooms. So I have a picture. Sam is only like two years old at the time. So he's like a little baby, and and this was a rough place, right? It was like a terri it was in a tent. And I have a picture of his Sam at two and Amber holding ice bags on me. And two of the ring girls had come over because they saw this baby and they thought Sam was so cute. And they were holding ice on me too and talking to Sam. And it's like, and I'm just like beaten, you know. It was like before the last fight, you know, so I had one more to go. And I was yeah, but and the last fight was the guy who was actually a real fighter, right? All the others were just like street cuffs. the it was like half and half, because they were the so Canada is was like super into UFC well, like mixed martial arts before like that area of the country was big into mixed martial arts from the beginning. So like you had guys who knew a little bit. Like there was a wrestler there that I had a really hard time with, who who knew what he was doing. And then there were some guys who had done cage matches before. I had never done one before. It was my speaker-0 (01:01:41.8) So are you talking like a WWE on on Russler or like a speaker-1 (01:01:46.474) no, like a like a real wrestler, yeah. I I would I wouldn't I wouldn't fight a WWE wrestler because they're cra they're crazy. You know, like I I have a an epic story about fighting wrestlers from in high school, but go on. Go on this is all this show is it's us living through your old story. So let's just say a g a girl got me involved in a fight. Taylor's oldest time. And basically when she said that her boyfriend was a wrestler I thought she meant a real wrestler. And these four guys who were like amateur WWE guys show up and the first thing that guy did was take tacks out of his out of his pocket and sh shove them into his head. Yeah. Yeah. So it was bru it was bad. But the but thankfully my friends got involved and like the police ended up coming because these I mean they're psychos, you know, those guys. Yeah. They're like they're crazy. But do you know do you know what's funny about the 400% thing? I have a vivid memory, vivid memory of AMDG, of of someone there. I I I made this comment one time about Pat O'Mahani. Yeah. I said I would never fight Pat O'Mahany. And and this guy was like, Why? And I was like, I don't think he experienced pain. Like he I saw him do things in rugby where I was like, I just he's psycho. Like I would never want to fight him. Like, cause you're speaker-0 (01:03:12.376) Surprisingly aggressive. speaker-1 (01:03:13.728) And I yeah, exactly. And I didn't mean that I wouldn't beat him. What I meant was I don't want to get hurt. You know what I mean? Like and so and it was so funny because this person who I'll tell you about off the air, I'll tell you who the name off the air. But this person was like, you don't know what you're talking about. Like fighting's all about this. And he he for like a half an hour tried to teach me like how to fight. And I just like kept totally quiet. And I was like, thank you so much. Like That's good to know. Like all this stuff, you know, it it was amazing though because it's a classic AMD G thing. Like I I remember Brian described AMD G one time as a bunch of blind men arguing about colors. And that was that was like such a it's a great way to describe it, you know. That is his Brian. What a genius. Love it. I know. I know. speaker-0 (01:04:03.694) Yeah, we have gotten some intense arguments over things that it's like none of you know what you're talking about. speaker-1 (01:04:08.344) That's right. Right. I mean, we all became podcasters and continued that tradition. speaker-0 (01:04:13.798) Okay, this is a true story. I remember on one time I was so like annoyed that everyone on campus was real into Matt Mars is my deep, like I'm like a Christian rock dude who like knows what like real music is. I'm like, I got more talent on my pinky than Matt Marr does. And then like Bart up Kenny just like goes, he's like one of my best friends. right. He's actually like I was like, I like emo right. I was into dashboard before it was cool, it's Christian emo band. speaker-1 (01:04:37.71) Right. speaker-1 (01:04:43.831) Right. Right. yeah. Yeah. speaker-0 (01:04:47.01) my gosh, no, but it's funny, I'll and then I've got to go here in just a bit, but like I can't remember about that four hundred percent thing. When I was in California, there's this dude that like was a coach on the football team of the school that I worked at. But we just for for some reason he was one of those guys from like we should be friends, but we just did not get along at all. And so we were at this bar that I used to go to all the all the time called Dave's and we started to talk about Ohio State against Michigan. And I was and this is when Ohio City was like really, really good. I'm like, no, they're gonna just they're going to destroy them. And he's like, I bet you blah, blah, blah. I was like, fine, I will, I will take that bet. And and he I think we bet the spread. And then of course, I won. And he never paid me. He we like like fifty bucks. And I was like, What if I like a costed that guy? I like, dude, you like owe me money, right? And then I heard that he was like a professional boxer. and I had not done any boxing. And I was like, I could take him. speaker-1 (01:05:44.718) And I was like, a lot of steel speaker-0 (01:05:45.58) Right. I've got truth uphead amber ale. speaker-1 (01:05:54.272) In that case, you come to a guy like me and you're like, Dave, I'll give you half. You know? Dave, I need that twenty. And then I go get and then I go get it. speaker-0 (01:06:02.306) 2010. We really need this. and then I was just like like I had to like Luke, no, you no, you can't. You have to a fight since you know like eighth grade, and the guy you fought was gay. So, like, and like you won, but like it was your friend, then you guys were it was a weird thing. But it was still that's that sounds it wasn't as bad as it as like it sounds. I think it was like no, I think the last fight I got into was in with one guy that we became good buddies, but it was in like seventh grade and and it was a draw. And I remember kind of being like, that was it, Luke. You don't have any you know, there's nothing you weren't good at r rugby. You're not super athletic. speaker-1 (01:06:38.134) Neither was I. I wasn't either. Yeah, that I think that was one of the big fuels for me is I wasn't good at sports, so I wanted to like that was a yeah, be good at Yeah, sure. Yeah. You know. Are you going to work on the splits? Yeah, I I mean I stretch every day, but split. He used to do the splits. I don't see the split. What I'd say to you is that there was a time speaker-0 (01:06:47.372) Well, kinda like has their thing. speaker-2 (01:07:02.446) So what I would say, so. speaker-1 (01:07:07.978) when I was scary quick. Like you would see like my huge body move at someone and suplex them and you would have like, what the hell just happened? You know, like that that was my one thing. Like I could, you know, I was I was pretty quick at that time. You know, that's big yeah. Right. speaker-0 (01:07:25.646) That's legit scary, a big dude with like a big strong guy with speed is like legit like my speaker-1 (01:07:32.428) Right, but when I was fighting, like you had three hundred pound linemen running what? And now they're running like a four four forty, a three hundred you know I mean like like when I say quick, I mean quick in the in the nineties, right? Like it was it was different than back then. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. speaker-0 (01:07:51.534) Dave, dude, I'm I'm so sorry to t to cut the short, but I've got a I've got a here. wonderful. speaker-1 (01:07:55.75) I've got no worries, man. Can I ask you a closing question, Dave? Can I ask Dave a closing question real quick? do are you cool with professional combat sports? Like as a thing that exists in the world? Not necessarily the UFC, but like boxing, yeah. Yeah, I really love the new karate combat thing. I love that. have you have you watched this? Don't know. It's a s it's a stand up. You can do takedowns, but It's in a big arena. I really like that. I enjoy it. But I'm just, I feel like UFC in a lot of ways ruined what it was supposed to be, which was like who is like who who is the toughest and most experienced fighter in in the world, right? And now it's like who is the best MMA athlete? And here here's my issue with with UFC. And and everyone's gonna hate me for saying this. Okay. But these guys are amazing and they're impressive. But the second that the UFC starts paying what the NFL does and an NFL player goes into the UFC, they're all screwed. Like it's over. Really? yeah. Come on. Because of mass massive. And because of their Yeah. Are you kidding me? No no chance. Like no chance. I want to see that. Yeah. speaker-2 (01:09:06.318) Yeah, how s- yeah, how fast? speaker-0 (01:09:09.645) Yeah. W when you see those like SEC guys who are on the offensive line, like those offensive linemen, they are speaker-1 (01:09:19.126) You teach that guy how to wrestle for a week and then teach him like a couple of jujitsu throws or a couple of jujitsu chokes and it's over. Yeah. speaker-0 (01:09:26.882) 'Cause they're insane athletes. They're in they're ab they're the way that they can move and like and then I I I think this is the one thing that's very interesting about your pure athletes. They're they're like really good at like one thing. They can pick up almost any speaker-1 (01:09:44.222) Right. Exactly. Right. Right. Exactly. speaker-0 (01:09:46.603) Right. They might not be like the best, but they'll be probably better than you. Of course. Of course. You know, so yeah, I could see that. I could see that. Yeah. I remember being in ninth grade when we were when I was playing football, I was in the back of when our team like went to like run on to the field through the like like banner and stuff. And the team behind us they were c they were called like Valley View and they were undefeated and they won state that that year. And I just see these two guys, one who's like they didn't speaker-1 (01:09:51.128) Course. It's over that day. Over. speaker-0 (01:10:15.64) They didn't have their helmets on. And I remember they both had a beard and dude. Right. my gosh. He like he was like bald and and just like and I just like hear them both go, they can't fuck with us. And then go together's not one fucking team in the state who can. And I was like, You're right, sir. Right, right. Exactly. Or so right, Mr. You look like I mean, I I I could not believe that he was three years old. You know what I mean? Like it was like and I was just like speaker-1 (01:10:22.038) They're like forty years old. speaker-0 (01:10:45.356) Like you could it was like just yeah. It was like I was in the pool, you know, kind of a moment, right? Where it's just like speaker-1 (01:10:46.166) It's like speaker-1 (01:10:51.884) Hey, that was it before, totally. Yeah. speaker-0 (01:10:56.728) Cool. Hey, well thanks buddy. where do people stuff that you're doing like on a Patreon? speaker-1 (01:10:58.604) Percives. speaker-1 (01:11:02.294) yeah, Patreon. Patreon dot com forward slash Dave Van Vickle. That's awesome. Cool. Yeah. That's cool. Pray for me, how about that? That'd be cool. Absolutely. Stories on Patreon. No, but teach your sons that there's worse things than losing a fight. Tell not to be a pussy. speaker-0 (01:11:07.692) Yeah, please go. Well and here's a five. speaker-0 (01:11:22.102) No, but like yeah, and and here's the thing like I tell you too. It's like in you were probably in college, you're like one of the most devout pro life people as well. Like you're going to doing the sidewalk counseling every weekend. You're getting up at like six in the morning. Like this is not like this is not like you you do all these amazing things. And I just I love any time that that we were able to have you on the show 'cause you're just a good, good man. So speaker-1 (01:11:48.46) Thanks, man. You're like I like the black. That's what you are. You're doing all these charitable things, but you can kill everyone in a fight. And if the marauders come. Yeah. The funny thing is that like I there like the other day I said to someone like that there was like a rat, and I was like, Listen, man, gang members, terrorists, I'm your guy. Get that rat away from me, or you'll see me scream like a little girl. Like like I like there there are definitely things that I'm not too masculine about. Yeah. speaker-2 (01:12:17.23) You speaker-1 (01:12:19.01) I don't know how he got all the way on top of the stool, but he's he's up there and he's hiking his pantaloons as high as they go. Yeah. Nice. Dave, thanks for story time. See, Dave's story time. It's fighting, it's evangelizing, it's exercising. That's that's that's all you're good for. No, I'm just kidding. wow, dude. Have you ever heard of it? speaker-0 (01:12:42.801) We'll just call this part part one. speaker-1 (01:12:44.918) Yeah, right, right. Have you ever heard of the comedian Ali Sadiq? Yeah, I've heard of him. Yeah. Yeah, he just tells the his specials are like an hour and a half and it's just stories, and they're so funny. You would be he tells mostly like prison stories and stuff like that. Right. You just gotta do that. Just tell the funniest exorcism story, the funniest fighting story. It'll be awesome. It'll be awesome. All right, homie. Thanks for coming on. Appreciate you. Yeah. Bye guys. Appreciate. Bye. Peace.