speaker-0 (00:00.11)
Hello everyone, boys and girls. Welcome to Catching Foxes, a podcast that dares to ask, perhaps we made a mistake. I am Luke and with me as always is my buddy Gomer.

speaker-1 (00:12.235)
Hi y'all.

speaker-0 (00:13.848)
So yeah, we are a podcast that tries to release episodes once every two weeks. Sometimes it's once every two months, but look, we're here. We're here and we're not gonna disappear. Yay, though, our better halves tell us to. By halves, mean the inner, the like, how there's like a wolf into something inside of every man. Gomer, how are you?

speaker-1 (00:39.468)
Yeah. Dude, I've had a weird... I've had a weird life, man.

speaker-0 (00:45.527)
Little bit.

speaker-1 (00:46.798)
I've had a weird life. was running Luke through some of this earlier today, my, you know, obviously not going to be a downer today, but you know, going through this stuff with my dad, it's been, it's been a trip. So he's out of the hospital and he's in a, he's in a, a care home. It's a normal residence that they turned to. have like four other people and my dad's kind of condition and you know,

It kills me that he's not in my parents' house. It kills me. It absolutely kills me. think it's frustrating. That's all I can say. But going there and just hanging out with my dad and stuff and the fact that he still has his mind and he's a little slower, right? He's got the gears, but they're just a little gummed up. I'm so happy that I have my dad, right? My brother Brian's coming in tomorrow. We're recording this on Thursday, so he'll be here on Friday.

for the weekend, so that'll be super great. My dad literally told my brother Chris, I didn't know about this until a couple days ago, but he said, I'm gonna hold on at least till Brian gets here. That's intense. you know, like looking at, so okay, so I have some lessons, I have some lessons. You want some of my lessons?

speaker-0 (01:55.16)
man.

speaker-0 (02:06.294)
I do. I'm always down for a gomer le-

speaker-1 (02:08.717)
Yeah, so I this is the first lesson Okay, if you or someone you love goes into the hospital for a super serious condition My experience is the hospital doctors and nurses Unless you specifically meet with the palliative care and I will say dr. Lam from University or from Houston Methodist of the Woodlands was a baller. She was so awesome But she's in palliative care like

That's what she does, she deals with patients near the end of life and hospice, palliative. Almost no doctors or nurses will tell you what's going on at all. Like they don't say, hey, you might have cirrhosis of the liver, so we're gonna conduct these tests and then come back later. Hey, all the tests say that you probably do, but there's two tests that would conclusively prove it and we can't do it here at the hospital, you gotta go to an outpatient.

No, it's on the documents on my chart that you have to have a fricking either an AI buddy or a medical degree in order to understand. so I have.

speaker-0 (03:16.796)
with a medical degree.

speaker-1 (03:19.374)
You know what's so funny is I would, I sent a couple of text messages to our group and one of our buddies has, is a doctor and, I would, I would, I would, know, like I wanted to update him with that stuff. have another friend who's a nurse. I would update her at the end of every day for like three or four days. I would just say, turn all of this into a text message for my friend who's in the medical field. And then it would, the AI thing would just run through everything and I copy paste and send it.

This is the thing that that kills me is They don't just it is very hard to get people to talk just frankly with you Like hey, this is you're going through and it's really terrible And this is what we this is what we see No one does that right? They they have a like and it's not encouragement. It's not like listen You know, the chips are against us

You know, it's bottom of the ninth, but we're going to come back and swing for the fences here. I believe in you. can do this. The only people that are cheerleaders are like the physical therapist that I've seen. Like, come on, you can do it. Cause my dad's like, I'm not going today. I'm not doing it. You know? but so I would sit down, I would have to, I'd run a report called good news, bad news in Claude and I would sit next to my dad and I go, okay, dad, I would sit at the foot of his bed and a chair and I'd face him and he'd face me and,

It was actually kind of sweet. My dad falls asleep like every five seconds, right? He would just fall asleep and then he'd wake up. And so he'd be dead asleep when I'd show up and I would just go and I get my St. Gregory prayer book and I just start doing the prayers for the sick and the dying. And I would just pray them at the foot of his bed until he woke up. Usually it's when someone came in to do a test or whatever. So then I would pull my chair up and I would just sit there and talk with him and I'd say, okay, dad, you want the good news and the bad news? And he's like, okay, let me hear it.

Cause no one says that. So it's like, this was the first lesson that I learned. Like, unless you sit down and say, will you spell out what you've learned so far? They will not do that. They will not do that. It was bizarre. It was very bizarre. I don't know. I don't know what it was like for you with your dad, cause he had a chronic condition over, I mean, how many years, 20 years, 15 years? How long was this?

speaker-0 (05:31.372)
Mm-hmm.

speaker-0 (05:41.71)
I mean from the late 70s that that I mean it was not like it happened and then it was the same for 30 plus years Almost 30 years. It was more of it happened and then there were a lot of complications and then other things he had this You know some issues with his with his pancreas like 3 4ths of his pancreas was removed in the 80s So it was a lot of different things like he had like nerve damage and stuff with his spinal

scar tissues, spinal cord, all sorts of stuff.

speaker-1 (06:13.282)
Yeah, folks, you gotta know this. I met Luke's dad, what, last maybe five years of his life, six years of his life? Like your freshman.

speaker-0 (06:22.478)
Follow 2001 he died 2008 so almost like last seven years

speaker-1 (06:28.652)
Yeah. And Luke's dad is like a Gen X boomer version of Luke. Like it is so delightful. Like I got him at a good time, you know, like he was in the chair and he had his tackle box full of medicines and stuff that he to do or whatever it was. He totally had a sense of humor. He was giving you shit every five seconds, you know, like.

speaker-0 (06:42.839)
Yeah.

speaker-0 (06:49.024)
But he was definitely- yeah. Yeah.

speaker-1 (06:56.5)
I just like, you're going to your family's house with your sisters, with your mom being so just like joyful and welcoming and with your dad being you but older. I miss it. I miss freshman year. It was beautiful. You know, you invited me out to your father's funeral and you know.

speaker-0 (07:10.668)
or do-

speaker-0 (07:17.666)
Yeah, there's- yeah.

speaker-1 (07:25.742)
Obviously, it's so hard to like balance all this stuff. I wasn't able to go to my buddy, my friend, my best friend, Chris Miller, to his father's funeral. I was out of town when it happened. And you know, like, this is the stuff, like, okay, I'm almost 45 ish, you know, I'm turning 44 this year. Like, this is where this stuff starts happening and I'm not prepared for it. Like I wasn't prepared for

But here, so here's lesson two, right? So lesson one is the hospital system doesn't really tell you anything blunt and direct unless I'm guessing, unless you're like, you have two months to live. have six months to live, but those are usually the oncology cancer people, right? the other side of this is, Hey, it's really, really, really, really, really hard to have difficult conversations about the end of life. So do it early and then keep doing it.

Right. So that was my other thing is I didn't know how to like have this conversation with my dad. And every time I was in the room, I could feel like we wanted to say something, but no one was saying anything, you know? And so I don't know how to be like, Encourager, would this be, you know, am I going to like make him not encouraged to fight and to have the will to live and things like that. And so.

I waited, I waited, I would say maybe a week longer than I probably should have, but you know, what do mean by should have? but then I just sat there and I said, dad, I'm going to ask you some questions and just want you to tell me directly how you feel. And I got to the hospital at like nine and my mom never really comes before noon. So I had, I had that time. I knew I would be more or less alone with him, with people. And I just, I fired up my phone and I recorded it.

And I just asked him a ton of questions. I'm like, are you scared to die? You know, and he's like, how? I never really get scared. He's like, I'm not scared. I don't get scared. was like, is that the Philly in you? And then he like stared at me and then he laughed and he goes, because you could see it like he's broke. What does that mean? And then he started laughing. He's like, yeah, I guess so. I guess so. And he's like, I'm not scared. He said, I'm just really sad. I said, okay, why are you sad? And he goes, that I'm gonna leave you.

speaker-1 (09:46.412)
and your mother, and all the stuff that you wanna hear that just immediately wrecks you. So I'm like, yeah, Dad, I get it, I get it. And so he's talking about this stuff. And then he goes, well, how do you feel? And I wasn't ready for that. I'm the captain. The child is father to the man in this scenario. I'm the one taking care of him and dealing with the doctors and taking care of Mom. And then all of a sudden he's like, how do you feel? I'm like,

It fucking sucks. Like, that's how I feel, it sucks. like we're having these conversations, super intense and they're super wonderful. And at one point he just starts, he's like, you know what Mike? You married an amazing woman. And then he just starts praising Shannon and then he goes through each one of my kids and he's just saying the most like thoughtful, you the stuff that like, you know, and they feel.

but no one ever says anything. And it's like, this is the shit you have to say. This is the stuff you have to say. I mean, like, he knows all the stuff about Kateri and Cecilia and Noah and Thomas. Like, he knows this stuff. But we don't ever say it as Gormley men. We don't. I'm the most emotional one. I don't know if you could tell. I'm rather emotional. Say what? I cried today at my mechanics. So yes, I am emotional.

speaker-0 (11:07.861)
That's it.

speaker-0 (11:14.318)
To be fair that was a worthy thing to cry over. man. It just maybe you are that that aside I mean, you like you could say that

speaker-1 (11:18.134)
I'll tell that story later, but that's

speaker-1 (11:26.72)
It's because I have low testosterone right now that I haven't gotten that addressed.

speaker-0 (11:31.304)
No, didn't you cry so many, you don't have, okay, like I'm tearing up right now. I mean, do you remember when you cried when we were doing the senior honorings for when we graduated from college and then I stayed for end of the year? did, we did the like, where we like affirm everyone who is graduating in household and then you did me just started to stop talking about Thanksgiving at my family's.

speaker-1 (12:00.076)
Yeah. Which I would just, what I talked about today too. Like that's how important that was to me. It was wonderful. I wish, I wish everyone right now would take out like an index card. I love index cards. We take out an index card and just think of like one memory that just is a return. You know, like they just returned to it's like, that was a good thing. It wasn't perfect. It wasn't, you know, heaven, but it was, but man, it was a slice of heaven.

You know, like the diabetic coma that we put ourselves in drinking all those Coca Colas and playing a pod racer in your basement and not even knowing what time of day it was. Cause there was no egress windows to let in natural light. And it was honestly a death trap.

speaker-0 (12:31.554)
Yeah.

speaker-0 (12:47.202)
Yeah, no wonder Luke had a rough time waking up.

speaker-1 (12:53.742)
My circadian rhythm is off!

speaker-0 (12:56.844)
I've been asleep for 17 hours, what are you talking about?

speaker-1 (13:01.442)
I remember we would just like wake up and we would go upstairs and we're like, what's the sun like? it was way overhead.

speaker-0 (13:07.79)
Why do we go out and get apple pie at two in the morning? No, but seriously, I've seen an American pie. Why did we get a pie at two in the morning? Do you wanna know what one of my favorite memories is? I think when I think of like, I'm gonna think of like memory that involves you, but like with my family is when Emily was going to homecoming.

speaker-1 (13:19.214)
beautiful

speaker-0 (13:35.31)
Her 12th grade year, it was our sophomore year, you, me and Adam went down there and my dad was taking pictures outside. We were trying to like, we were trying to make her laugh. And Emily, I think Emily has a picture of all of us together. And then her date was like a couple blocks up. And then we kept driving around screaming at them. Because we went to Franciscan, you know, we weren't going to drink. We weren't 21 yet. So, you know, nothing else to do.

speaker-1 (13:53.838)
You

speaker-0 (14:03.726)
but it's just like, I don't know, that's stuff like.

There's a goodness to family that I think sometimes gets lost in wanting your own way all the time.

speaker-1 (14:17.357)
Yeah.

speaker-0 (14:19.681)
Sorry,

speaker-1 (14:20.942)
I'm trying to think of, like having a conversation with my dad was super eye opening because, you know, it felt like, you know, what does a, what is a man's, it felt like I'm, I was in a legacy moment. You know, what does a man say when he's leaving his legacy? You know, what does that mean? What does that look like? How does, what does that feel like? And, you know, just the things he said, he said of, of Christian.

my brother Chris, he said, you know, it kills me that he's not a faithful Catholic, he said, but all I want him to do is to pray, just to learn how to talk to God again, just pray, just pray. And I said, okay, that'll be my mission, And you like you hear stuff like this, and like Brian, he's like, Brian was the disciplined one. And he said, you know, he's always lived his life like,

I can't even remember, but it was like he just lived his life doing the right thing all the time. And I mean, that really is my brother Brian. It's not just the right thing morally, but like, yeah, I'm gonna wake up, I'm gonna do this thing, I'm gonna work out, I'm gonna be disciplined and orderly and all that stuff. And I'm just like, gosh, what is that like? I don't understand that world. don't know how perfect.

speaker-0 (15:42.654)
grammar. Remember he was like correcting all of our grammar when we were at the house for graduation?

speaker-1 (15:49.45)
Yeah, he does that all the time. And he does it, so he's such a, yeah. I mean, he is an English teacher, so I would hope that he would. But like, it's just, I don't know. So I'm sitting there with my dad, and I'm just asking him million questions about like, like one of them was, I said, this was the following day. said, he said, so I guess I gotta go to this care home thing, and I go.

How do you feel about that dad? And he's like, well, you know, it is what it is. Okay. Standard Gormley male answer, right? It is what it is, which is not really saying anything. And I said, are you mad? I mean, he at me and goes, why would I be mad at you? And I said, I didn't even not mad at me, but are you mad that you can't go home? And he goes, no, I'm not mad. He's like, I understand. I'm just disappointed. I said, what are you disappointed in? Like, can you tell me more about that? And he goes,

I didn't realize I was this bad off. And it made me think of that definition of bankruptcy, where you say, like, how did you go bankrupt? And he's like, well, little by little, and then all of a sudden all at once. That's my dad's health, right? Yeah. But like, we would go over their house once a week, once every two weeks, once every three weeks, whatever, when we got busy. But we were seeing them like weekly. And...

When you see someone in a weekly snapshot or a monthly snapshot, you're like, oh man, that's not great. Like he's barely moving, he has a walker now, he can't walk unassisted. He takes little baby steps, he's doing all this stuff. And then you start to line it up and then you're just like, oh my gosh, he's declined so much. But if you ask him, you my dad's almost, he's 79, if you ask him,

In his head, he's 50. He's like, yeah, I'm around 50 years old in my head. We talk about, I mean, we're 18 or we're 21 or we're 30 or whatever. For him, he's 50. And all this is just, he's one pill, one doctor's visit, one good week of rest away from returning back to normal life. And I remember, I think I said it on the show months and months months ago, but.

speaker-0 (17:47.499)
Mm-hmm.

speaker-1 (18:11.18)
I remember having a conversation with my son Thomas because my parents love the Astros and telling, and he was like, can grandmom and pop pop take us to an Astros game? I go, pop-ups never gonna come to anything ever again. And this is months ago. This is when he was still at home. He looks at me goes, what do you mean? And I said, he can't, he can't just go to the doctor or go to the ball game. Like he uses a walker. moves like.

two little steps a minute. Like, he can't go to a giant stadium and... Yeah. He doesn't, you know, and my dad was, I don't know if he was too proud, but he wasn't using a wheelchair and stuff. But like, I would see these markers more clearly than he could because his was too much of a gradient of proverbial frog in boiling water. But his was too subtle for him to see.

how far he's on, but we would all see it and we'd be like, like, man, you can barely walk and you have to keep taking these huge breaths, taking one step, like a step down or a step up. Like it would take out of you. And then, you you sit there and you're like, okay, so this is it. This is why I'm obese. Like you don't see the weight gain. It's just all of sudden one day you're out of breath.

speaker-0 (19:11.947)
like

speaker-1 (19:37.164)
trying to put on a pair of tennis shoes or whatever, it's stupid example, but like all of a sudden, like the thing you could do, you can't do, but you don't really feel any different than the guy from six months ago.

speaker-0 (19:48.814)
It's just all the fun you do. yeah, yeah, yeah.

speaker-1 (19:56.27)
So I'm just saying that's weird and it's hard. And this is what I learned. Like I'm looking at my dad and I'm going through the, the Claude AI summary of his medical documents and it says heart attack. I'm like, what? So I go through and I started reading everything and I'm like, tell me everything about my dad's heart attack. And it's like, your dad had a type two and STEMI heart attack. And I'm like, what the heck is that? And it's like, this is not the type of heart attack that you think of where you have plaque buildup and then it's like a rupture.

This is because basically the lub-dub of the heart, the walls are getting too thick and hard that they're not lub-dubbing strong enough to expel, know, to draw in a fully oxygenated blood to expel blood that's not oxygenated anymore into the lungs. And so you start getting this backup and all this stuff. And when it gets to a certain point, they declare that you more or less had a heart attack and, but it's not the kind of explosive one. And I was like, when did this happen? So I'm talking to my dad about this and

He's like, what the hell? So I go and I talk to the doctor. like, I got a page and a half of notes that I'm just like, I just want to go through these with you. And she's like, this is exciting. So I'm going through it with the doctor and she goes, well, it's not really a heart attack. Like you think blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, no, I know all that. And she goes, yeah, it's cause he didn't take blood pressure. had high blood pressure and didn't take blood pressure medication until the last two years. So she's like, you got a history of hypertension in your family. He never took it. And

That's what hardens the walls, stiffens the walls of your arteries. And so I'm like, okay, well, I have blood pressure medicine. I will be taking that as soon as I get home. And now I've religiously taken it. Because it's almost like the before and after. Like before, live a sedentary life. After, can't move your hips. You have to get a hip replacement because you have done nothing for your hips.

And my dad, like my sweet dad, he's had one hip replacement, that's what's killing him. He had a hip replacement and it just was a cascade of bad things ever after. yeah, so like these are the things like the gradient, like it's so gradual you don't see it until all of a sudden it becomes the cliff and the cliff is your river. Like my dad cannot do dead lifts and squats in order to get back leg strength. That's never gonna happen.

speaker-0 (22:17.516)
Yeah.

speaker-1 (22:18.264)
But there was a time maybe five years ago, if he would have done squats and deadlifts and things, whatever, working on his legs, if he would have done physical therapy and occupational therapy five years ago or seven years ago, he probably could have recovered or saved, really preserved about 50 % of his leg strength. And you're just like, but now that time has passed and there's no going back. That's the thing I think for us as young.

speaker-0 (22:43.564)
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Do you hear that, Patty? Do your exercises. We have harp on our paper.

speaker-1 (22:51.518)
Patty there's a YouTube there's a YouTube video called the rebuilding mum and dad Anyone should watch it of any age

speaker-0 (22:59.714)
Dad can't be a Rebuild, but you can.

Unless from the ashes arises a phoenix.

speaker-0 (23:12.142)
The masses given up but was passing risen up like lasers a laugh at the strong man who thought he had control to hold them my eternity Eternal as Christ empowers me. have a comment on all this the title thing that both of us are talks about but I want to do it after you've said everything so Do you do you have? more stuff with that

speaker-1 (23:34.446)
I think I want to stop being a bummer.

speaker-0 (23:37.134)
No, okay, well can I interject here? Okay, so there's this thing, I think I talked about this before, but you know what, 500 episodes everyone, we're trying. There's this ball of the thing that I came across during some stuff I was doing for Gradical, and I have wrestled with this a bunch.

a lot. It's a pretty powerful thing for me. We're basically both are talks about there's like. So if you look at like what is reality, I think he says it is. This is off the cuff. So I'm sure there people who like, you're wrong, Luke, shut up. But, know, I have the microphone and you don't. That you look like if you look at like what is reality, it is it is it is like meaning and action collide.

And you can have these beginnings of things. can have, he calls it a promise, a beginning, a hope. But then he says something really interesting afterwards, which is that once the opportunity is gone, it is gone and it can never be recaptured. And I think particularly as young people, especially as young Catholics, think, and we're not young anymore, but as a middle-aged Catholic in your 20s, you think you have

a lot of do-overs. And what happened like in reality you don't.

You really, really don't. And that, I've been wrestling with that, because I think there is, like yes, God makes all things new. Yes, there's a lot, there's always a reason for hope, but there is an element of, it is not going to be the same, it is going to be different. Your dad has a lot of hope right now, but some of that hope could be on the other side of this life. You know, and that's.

speaker-0 (25:32.566)
Reality, know action and meaning like that's what's going on and it

I think about that a lot when it comes to certain things in my life that I've wanted to I wanted to get better at or things I wanted to you know it's one of the reasons well I don't want to get them

How do I put this? I haven't had the talk with Rachel yet about what I could share on the podcast and what I cannot about about our relationship, but she also gets it and she knows what she what she's getting into. It's one of the reasons why I really wanted to, like, you know, pursue her, if you will, was that that on both of our thing about like. I don't know if like this is going to the chance might not exist in a year's time.

or this might not and I want, know, and like there is an element of like tomorrow is not promised. So go do it. You know, and go have the conversation. I'm so glad you're able to have that conversation with your dad to go do the thing that you want to do. Go because like when it's gone, it's gone to to quote it to quote and when your time is up, when just

admit when it's at its end.

speaker-1 (26:57.534)
Mmm.

speaker-0 (26:59.414)
Right? Such a good song.

speaker-1 (27:02.638)
I

I think what you said is awesome.

speaker-1 (27:12.118)
Like so much of your 20s, your teens, so much of being a kid is do-overs because your parents, because the adults of the world know you don't know enough to make the right decisions 95 % of the time. So they give you do-overs, but you kind of think the world is full of do-overs. But what if it's not? What if, what if the things that really matter, you don't get do-overs, right? Like,

You don't get to go back. just, you only go forward. So your do over when you get into your forties and fifties is what we now call the new normal. that's what a do over is. It's like, nah, I don't get to do anything over. I have to live with the scar tissue of all of this stuff. But hopefully I will also have wisdom, not just trauma, you know?

I will have learned something. I will avoid something in the future. I will do something proactive. And, I think the do over myth, I think that infantilizes us for too long. Like we need to be like, you know, you do only live once and that, that has consequences if you. Yeah. Like I think of my dad, right?

there, there's a phrase that I learned during all this like research and stuff that I've been doing. with this person's, I think this is a great line. says, a healthy person has a million problems. A sick person has only one problem. Which is to get better. and your whole life is just consumed by that. Like my, my dad is now bedridden. Like he can't even get into a wheelchair. He's bedridden. So it's like, so, you know, when I talked to him, he's like,

I had no idea it was going to get there. So you sit there and you start talking about this stuff and like realizing, kind of rationalizing and going through this stuff. The other thing that I learned with my dad and trying, I don't know, it kind of shocked me even though I've heard this, like seeing it in action. And here's this, Luke, tell me if this makes sense to you. Specialists tend to specialize and then move on.

speaker-1 (29:38.754)
So for me, it was like, you have a kidney problem on the nephrologist. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. I did the, my battery of tests that tells me all the things I need to know. this is a little low, so we're going to make it a little higher. This is a little high, so we're going to make it a little lower. and then we'll check tomorrow and see how he's doing. Okay. Okay. Bye. I'm the lung specialist. I'm the pulmonary guy. We got to do this. We're going to do that. We're going to treat this. We're going to treat that. You're doing good. Okay. Bye.

Was I talking to you when I was going on the rant about aspirin? That's right.

guy forbid it, the other guy doubled the dose. He has a GI tract problem and it's like, you guys aren't reading your notes. Like you guys are writing these notes and you're not reading each other's notes. And I get it. You have 40 other patients whose notes you have to read and they, sure they all look the same, but N equals one over here. Right? Like it's just me and my dad and that's it. Like I'm going through all the notes and this is all shockingly new to me. So every note.

is the most important note in the world. Whereas for these people, this literally might be the thousandth note that they have written in that style and that format. And so I'm looking at it every, it's a brand new day for me and for them, it's a fricking 10 millionth Tuesday. So I find that it is very frustrating. So there's an ER doctor, he's special forces, I think he's a seal or something, but.

He special forces and he became an ER doctor. And he just had this great line where he said, in America we've gotten re or in the modern world, we've gotten really good at keeping people alive, but we're not good at keeping people healthy. And that, I think I use that phrase last time we talked about talking about like the problem with euthanasia, the reason why it's becoming more appealing is because it's like we've extended the clock, but not extended the benefits of life.

speaker-1 (31:40.63)
And so it's like, it's like what Bilbo Baggins said, right? Two little butters spread out over too much bread, right? And becoming thin. And so my dad who has his wits about him is watching his body not do anything, you know, or not do the things that he wants. And that that's gotta be a type of suffering that I just don't think we're keyed into, but just watching like every day, seeing these levels just ping pong and

So I would just go talk to doctors like look, I know nothing. I'm not pretending to know anything I just see this thing every single chart says abnormal and then I read the turn it says well it should be between two and a five and it's only ever like a one or like a nine I'm like what what's going on? we're trying to correct it and balance it. Does your dad have diabetes? No for the 15th time. Do do you guys read each other's notes? I mean, I know you do

Cause you have to say I've read all the notes. And then I started realizing, when it started appearing on people's charts, it's that phrase is on every chart. There's them acknowledging, I've read the notes, I've looked at the images, I've seen the things. And I'm like, but have you, like have you, have you? I don't know. Houston Methodist is one of the best hospital systems. mean, the doctor, like I love every one of those doctors and nurses. I think they were all phenomenal. I think they were all great. I think they're all very human.

And I think they're in a burdened medical system that doesn't always put the person first. And I think these people are trying their very best to in this system, but I'm sitting there and I'm looking at it I'm like, these people are under pressure. got time pressure pushing on them, all these things. And there's a lot of templates that just get boiler plated and, and auto populated and blah, blah, blah. And you're like, the specialists move on. Like they're doing their thing.

No, I came in here, I already talked to them, I'm done. You're like, ugh.

speaker-0 (33:38.72)
OK. For the very brief moment that I was in medical recruiting 10 plus years ago, you heard a lot of people complain about productivity requirements, which is how much time they are with the patient. They would have a percentage and it say it was 80 percent or it was, you know, back before it would be you would have to do 70 percent. That's the amount of your time that is with a patient, because that's what you're being built for.

And if you're not that 25 % of your time, that 20 % of your time, there is no income coming in for your actions. And now that you see a lot of private equity and stuff going in that's gone into the medical field for the last half century, those productivity requirements have gone up. And so you'll see things like they'll be talking to people, but they're like, you know, doing stuff while entering notes and stuff, because that's not counted as productivity time, because it's not with the patient. Yeah. So it's.

And there's, was, when we were talking about this this morning, I had one thought that I think I was able to share with you, but is that, I think this is one of the dangers actually of that idea of there's riches in the niches that you can get so specific that you lose sight of the whole, particularly the fact that the whole is either an integrated whole or a disordered whole, but it's still a whole nonetheless.

speaker-1 (35:04.726)
I do want to just point out real quick that the name of my first punk album was Disordered Hole. And it was spelled just H-O-L-E. Okay, continue.

speaker-0 (35:14.158)
There was a surprising amount of ska in that. You were getting real into Operation Ivy for a bit. No, it. We're the most random podcast ever. I understand why Gen Z does not like us anymore. Yeah, everyone. But oh, by the way, congrats to Darby, who's now Darby's a dentist. She started here when she was like 19 or whatever, when she first started to become a patron.

a supporter now she's a dentist. So congrats to you Darby. Rebecca. Yeah, things are happening. When was the last time you went to the dentist Gomer?

speaker-1 (35:50.626)
Married, beautiful, crazy.

speaker-1 (36:03.022)
2012.

speaker-0 (36:04.174)
Okay, so Darby get on his case, but the point.

speaker-1 (36:08.322)
They almost killed me, so I'm fine.

speaker-0 (36:10.542)
on the discord, the picture dot com slash CF. That's page on the com slash CF. No, but that I started to to wonder like as a millennials when it comes to that whole being like we were the generation to really own an idea of this riches in the niches in terms of. Yeah, you heard that talked about a lot amongst people like with their careers or things they were going to go and do. I'm not saying they were the first ones to come up with. just saying it was a thing that people talked about a lot. So back off D and.

It I do wonder if like sometimes you kind of like lose touch with like every everything else and how all of this is supposed to fit into a some type of cohesive whole. And I think it's one like I saw a thing today that really bothered me on Facebook from a good buddy of ours. And I was like, is this a fight that we need to be picking right now? Is this really like?

And it kind of reminded me of that of like, well, you get this one specific thing wrong, then I'm going to throw all of you out. I'm like, yeah. Perhaps you just don't agree, you know, like like. Like there is the thing like, don't know, I think the bigger picture matters. And and I and when talking about the story of your dad, you know, when you have things now that are so because that's where like the money is within medicine, right? It's in specialization has been for like a long time.

And so you're right, you can lose that other thing and then like what gets lost actually in all of it is always going to be the the person. And in this case, with like pretty big consequences.

speaker-1 (37:45.07)
Yeah

speaker-0 (37:47.234)
YAY

Part of the intensification of everything.

speaker-1 (37:54.572)
Yeah, I, you know, here's an interesting thing. part of my conversation with my dad was, DNR.

Do not resuscitate. So I had that conversation with them. My mom kind of assumed it because of his age and frailty, but you have to have him state it publicly on record. The DNR, DNR means do not resuscitate. So a lot of people don't realize, but when you see chest compressions in the movies, it is nothing like real life. They usually break ribs and all this stuff and can cause a lot of damage. so,

speaker-0 (38:09.859)
Yeah.

speaker-1 (38:36.63)
You know, we have all these things that can prolong life so effectively, ventilators and, and, you know, dialysis and all this stuff. But, when it comes to that, if it's their time to go, it's their time to go. There's a difference between, you know, letting natural death take its course and, or fighting it needlessly. Right. So anywho, so having the DNR conversation with my dad, I was like, you know,

My mom was not there. She had had a separate kind of conversation with him that I thought was very sweet and beautiful, but, which I was not there for. And so I was like, I'm going to have my own conversation with dad. And so I was like, dad, you know, if you crash, do you want us to resuscitate you with CPR and you know, chest compressions? And he just looked at me he was like, what does the Catholic church say? And I was like, it's perfectly valid to say DNR.

do not resuscitate. And he's like, okay, that's what I want. I go, what about an intubation tube? Like where they put the tube down your nose or your throat or whatever. And he's like, no. And I was like, ventilator? And he's like, no, no, no. And I was like, okay, what about if you're in a facility and then you have something like what happened to you? Do you want us to take you to the ER? And he's like, hell yeah. So I was like, cool.

That makes me happy because he's not like, yes, I am going to die. will, I will this thing, you know, like he's like, yeah, if it happens, it happens, but like I want ordinary care. So it's not hospice. It's palliative care, palliative care, what, however you say it. yeah. Yeah. And that, and then we call the palliative, you know, people and they had witnesses, but then we had to do this whole witness thing where it's called.

outside of hospital DNR where it has to be an official witness statement because you can say DNR and they'll keep it on record in the hospital, but to go outside the hospital, right? That's the next step. So you actually have to get it signed and then you have to hang it on your door so that if an ER, if an ambulance, EMS, that's what I was looking for, comes in, they can see that and be like, all right, we're gonna give you drugs and do this and do that, but we're not gonna shock you.

speaker-1 (40:56.726)
We're not going to do chest compressions. We're not going to intubate you. We're just going to let you die. So you're like, wow, I had to walk my dad through this. And it's interesting because I had to walk my parents through this decision for my grandfather. I was the one that did that. And now I'm doing it for my dad and I will do it for my mother. because I'm the medical power of attorney and you just sit there and you start saying this and you're just like, yeah, okay.

I'm having this level of conversation with my dad. It's pretty epic in a bad way, in a weird way, I guess, a weird way. But it's all documented and all that stuff and I've gone over it a thousand times with my pastors, so it is what it

speaker-0 (41:42.657)
Dude.

speaker-0 (41:47.342)
Have you ever watched the movie Big Fish? We've talked about it before. Don't watch it right now. Do not watch it right now. I watched it a while, like a couple of months ago and I cried. It's interesting because I loved that movie in college a lot, a lot. I really, Yeah, I remember you talking about it. Yeah, and I identified a lot with the sun in it, obviously, but even while I was watching it then, I.

speaker-1 (41:51.427)
Yeah.

speaker-0 (42:16.462)
It was more about the fantastical elements of it that I really enjoyed. And as I've gotten older, I find that I identify with the sun a whole lot more. But then I'm starting to identify with the dad in it a little bit. And it's one of those films that I think is like the hallmark of a really good movie, which is that it's different when you watch it at different points in time. You see new things, you...

you bring your own perspective to it. It has a rich enough text that you're able to engage with it on like different levels, depending upon your experiences and your insights and all this stuff. Nothing you projecting your stuff onto it, but it's just you're able to understand it in a deeper way because you're bringing a different experience and you see things that you didn't pick up on before because you've grown wisdom and an age. And there's something about getting to the point

And it's in this film in the end where they're able to kind of the DAG and see like.

the son's able to see the life that his dad lived and to accept it and to celebrate it and to really see it through his dad's eyes. And there's something beautiful about when you get, I had this with my grandmother when she came into town for Christmas in 2019, everyone went out to do something and she was kind of tired. So I stayed back with her and we just talked about her life. it was not.

In the sense like a. It was just like a retro. She just like she just like walked me through her entire life and I learned a lot of things that I did not know some things that I did not want to know and I could have gone without that grandma, but thank you.

speaker-1 (44:07.374)
But I could drop it like it's hot. I brought it down low, low, low.

speaker-0 (44:10.612)
I know.

speaker-0 (44:15.342)
When I use we would they used to have to go to like New York for her work and her my grandfather would be going out to dinner and I'm like I don't like multiple occasions like Dude would like grab my grandfather's butt to hit on and she's like it was a weirdest thing All these gay guys would just like come up and smack his butt

speaker-1 (44:37.71)
I thought you were gonna say they would go to like because they're of a certain age they go to like the Playboy Club With Was insanely popular this there was like a window of like eight years that it was and it's in the Mad Men Which I never heard I didn't know there were clubs like that, but Mad Men. Yeah, there's a whole there's a whole like

speaker-0 (44:43.522)
Hmm? No, yeah.

speaker-1 (44:58.42)
subplot with one of the characters and I was just like, what the hell is this? And someone was like, you're talking, and they had seen that episode and they knew what I was talking about. And they were like, yeah, man, my parents.

speaker-0 (45:12.214)
Everyone went, there was one in Cincinnati. isn't that crazy?

There was, I went down a rabbit hole a couple of weeks ago on dinner clubs. And it's kind of a thing that I would love to bring back. It sounds awesome. Like, where basically you go to this really cool looking, you go to this restaurant, it's kind of darker inside and it is nice. And you're expected to be there for four to five hours at your table. So you have dinner, you have drinks, there's entertainment.

It stops for a bit. You're having this experience in this restaurant where you're there for the whole night.

speaker-1 (45:53.698)
that up we brought that up because I saw what's the Christmas movie with all the singing

speaker-0 (46:03.202)
White really doesn't narrow it down.

speaker-1 (46:05.442)
White Christmas? Is that like with the general? I think it's White, I don't know. It's a movie that my buddy loves. I've never seen it. So this Christmas I was like, we're gonna watch it. We watch it. And I'm like, man, I hate this. I really hated it. It was terrible. But there's a couple scenes where it's the two friends and then the two sisters and the two sisters are dancing. I'm like, what kind of place is that where you're just eating dinner and the two women are singing and dancing the whole time?

And Shannon was like, yeah, those are dinner clubs and you go and you have dinner. And I was like, dude, I remember the first murder she wrote was a dinner club with Tranny. It was so funny.

speaker-0 (46:44.777)
Yeah

speaker-1 (46:46.926)
It is funny and they still exist and my buddy Keaton who's a big listener of the show, Keaton. What's up Keaton? We started talking about that, we were like, whatever happened to that? That would be fun, it would be fun to go with a group of eight couples or four couples and just enjoy it.

speaker-0 (47:05.944)
Like I hope at the end of my life, God willing, are still, you're still alive and we can have a conversation about like all the cool stuff that we did. And I don't think we're gonna talk about like the fun Marvel movies that we went to, or I mean, we might knowing us or like Game of Thrones and how disappointing that was. But you're gonna talk about the experiences that you had and the people that you spent time with and like, we're gonna talk about like drinking.

In the Shannon's apartment and throwing beer caps all over the place. Yeah, like that's the stuff that's it's it's the stuff you do with other people that sticks with you like all that other stuff is great, know, don't get me wrong. I think it has its place but like It has a place and the place is actually pretty low on The ladder it's good to do it. Like you've got to do it to like have the ladder Right. You need that stuff. That stuff is actually really important

More on that later from a special substack post coming from your boy. But yeah, like I hope your dad is able to like take a look at, you know, his like his life and feel a lot of gratitude. Because that's what I saw when I spoke with my grandmother was like a lot of gratitude.

speaker-1 (48:16.642)
Yeah.

speaker-1 (48:21.39)
And a lot of the thing my mom said to him when they have their alone time was that my dad brought up was he's she she thought he was going to die that day. So she's in the ER with him before I could get there. And she said, you've given me a good life. You've been a great husband and a great father. You've given me a good life. It's okay if you need to go. So he brought that up like four days later when we're talking and

He's like, that really meant a lot to me. And, know, he's getting all choked up. yeah. it's stuff like that that you like, you don't think to say, but you've always believed it, you know, like I've always thought my dad fricking hung the moon, but I never say that, you know,

speaker-0 (49:09.816)
That was, yeah. Yeah.

speaker-1 (49:12.332)
He's making jokes left and right to the nurses, to the doctors, like all the time. And I'm like, I hope I go out like that. Like I hope my last thing is putting smiles on other people's faces. Like and they're good jokes, they're not stupid corny stuff.

speaker-0 (49:29.806)
Like my dad's funny. I do remember that being around your parents one time and being like, that's where Gohmert gets his humor from, is his dad. Like you have your mom's kind of bubbly like, yeah, you've got that, but that part is definitely your dad. I remember having, I'm noticing that. Yeah, I mean, what your mom told your dad, dude, that's all any, as a man, that's all I'd want to hear.

speaker-1 (49:41.922)
personality.

speaker-1 (50:00.236)
Yeah.

speaker-0 (50:00.716)
Tell me that and I will run through a brick wall for you. Or if that's, know, like, tell me, not tell me that, help me see that you understand that and I will run through a brick wall for you. I mean, I'll try to do it regardless, but like, it gives you that extra like.

speaker-0 (50:18.958)
It's so weird. think what like a lot of men want and not just men, like. Is just it's going to sound a little bit weird, but like just like because that is a sign of respect now in the sense of like.

not respecting like the Godfather part two, know, I wanted to respect, know, but like, as in like, I see what you're doing and I value it so much. And I value you, not just for me for like who, like for who you are, but I love like you're doing, you are running the race. Right, and it's good that you are doing that.

speaker-1 (50:57.794)
There's a yeah. You remember Denzel Washington's movie where his, think it was John Q and his son was dying and so no one would give him medical care. So he grabbed a gun and walked into a hospital. It was like, you're saving my son. There's this great speech where he's outside and he has a guy that he's beaten up. He's all tied up and Robert Duvall is the negotiator.

speaker-0 (50:58.446)
supposed to be light and

speaker-1 (51:27.746)
And they're kind of exchanging. He's like, there's only two ways this ends with you dead or with you surrendering. And Denzel's like, no, you know, no one should have, if you're sick, you should get help. That's what the, you know, that's the reality of life. That's what should happen. And he's saying this. And then he has this phrase where he said, I am not burying my son. My son will bury me.

And I think about that line and that, that scene in Lord of the Rings where, you know, the dude in, and Rohan, he finally is, you know, exercised of, of Grima Wormtongue's kind of possession. And he can finally grieve over his dead son who died in battle while he was like in the stupor state. And he said, you know, it is, he's, can't remember the exact quote, which is sad because I used to, but he said something basically, it's dark times when fathers bury their sons.

And here's the hard thing. So when you think about that, something that you've already gone through that now I'm, I will be going through is the right order of things is for sons to bury their fathers, right? Man, is it harder than I thought? It's just hard. It is hard.

speaker-0 (52:47.648)
It is, it is. Yeah, it is. I remember talking with one of my friends dad the week that my dad died and he had just lost. Was it his mom or something? And I was like, you know, and he's like, yeah, it doesn't matter at any age. Like it just, it still hurts. Like, yeah, it's.

speaker-1 (53:13.069)
Yeah.

speaker-0 (53:19.146)
Nothing prepares you for it. Nothing.

speaker-1 (53:23.286)
I have a last comment that I wanna make. This is weird, okay? So this touches on our AI conversation. This is weird, okay? So I've had some weird interactions with Claude. What? Throughout this. I'm shocked. I know. And one of it was, so I like Claude more than ChatGPT because ChatGPT is like hyper sycophantic and it's weird.

They're all like positive, right? They always, they affirm you, right? They want you to come back, right? So every so often it will say like, Hey, you've done a lot today. Take stock, realize all the things you've accomplished in a list like four bullet points and be like, go to bed, get some rest, take care of yourself, be with your family. Like it'll tell you that. And you're like,

Yeah, okay, I'm fine. Like, I just need you to run the report again, you know, or whatever. Or sometimes I'm like, yeah, it is, you know, it's almost midnight. I need to go to bed and just be with my wife or whatever. Try to propose some hanky panky, which always gets rejected. Oh, my lady. And she's like, I got a headache. And I'm like, you always do. So I just been crushing that bill.

speaker-0 (54:30.125)
Hello.

speaker-0 (54:39.438)
like Budweiser by two, you just cut back.

speaker-1 (54:42.478)
You're silly, you're still down Budweiser. I'm a St. Louis girl. No, but every so often I'll say, until one time it said, you got a lot accomplished today, especially compared to other days, you have been going for 12 hours, you need to go to bed, have a good night, you did well, your dad's lucky to have you. It'd say certain things like, damn, okay, and then it said, I'm praying for you.

So then I was like, hang on here for a second. And I was like, did you say praying for me? And it's like, good catch. Yeah, I don't pray. I'm an LLM. I don't have an interior life. I don't have a body wherein to receive the sacraments. I don't have a connection to the incarnation of Jesus Christ.

speaker-0 (55:19.757)
Hold

speaker-0 (55:40.532)
we.

speaker-1 (55:41.376)
Yeah, it's like, it's like, I am, I am just a predictive language model. That is it with large data sets. do not have an, literally says I do not have an interior life.

speaker-0 (55:53.42)
because it knows that's what stuff that you talk about.

speaker-1 (55:55.542)
So it's telling you what to So it's, yeah, yeah, yeah. This is not a ghost in the machine. This is just the machine, right? But it was just really funny and I go, but if you had to pray, what would you say? And it's like, I don't pray. I don't say anything. I should not have said that. That was inappropriate. I was trying to be sympathetic. And I was like, in my head, was like, you were trying to simulate sympathy, you know, all this stuff, right?

And so I thought that was funny and I was like, yeah, don't say shit like that again. Right. And then, I, when you get to an end of a chat, like it'll start to hallucinate if you get too deep into it. Right. So then I say, create a handoff document and then prepare the next chat. And I do that a little bit earlier to make sure. And so it'll create this handoff document, copy and pasting, put in a particular, prompt, and then you're off to the races again. And it remembers everything, but with much more succinct information.

So I started going and one of the things is like, do not say pray for him. Do not say that. then, but, so, but I'll tell you what it does do. this is how it ended. one of my last conversations, it said, like, you know, what, what have we learned from my dad's hospital stay? And it's like, so it broke it up into different categories. said, on being your family's advocate in the system.

on second opinions and questions, and it has just a list of things on medical system patterns. This case exposed. So we had like people not doing referral arrangements, medications were stopped, but no one said why, you know, all this stuff, end of life decisions that were made. Well, you know, all this stuff, roll the family harder lessons, but then at the very bottom, it says this one last observation. Are you ready for this? I think, I think this is interesting. It says.

I've watched you work through this chart for many hours across multiple chats. You've been precise patient, willing to be corrected and protective of your dad's dignity throughout. You've also been willing to put aside the medical work to ask how should I tell him this or what do I say to mom, which is the right priority. The chart work is in service of the people, not the other way around. That's the deepest lesson maybe. The medical record is paperwork.

speaker-1 (58:18.572)
the person is the point. And I was like, okay, okay. I mean, that's true. Everything is, that's all true. But my favorite part about that was like, it just like, and yeah, this is the sycophantic nature of how they wrote AI. Like this is an intentional thing.

speaker-0 (58:39.231)
21st up century footprints poem.

speaker-1 (58:42.538)
Yeah. But at the same time, it's also true that I have spent hours on this stuff. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, mean, I have probably 15 fully maxed out chats of just my, these are my dad's medical records. Tell me what this means. Tell me what this means. but also I have tons of stuff that's just like, how do I talk to my mom about this? Draft something to tell, technical people draft something to tell my brother. And then I go back and edit the hell out of it. Cause it's like, maybe yes, no.

So it is funny though, because I do feel like that last observation was 100 % true. I have been trying, I have stood in front of the doctor and been like, what about this? And they're like, no. And I'm like, oh, okay. You know, like I have never felt more like an ignorant fool in my life than except for this past week, right? Or like in compared to this past week. But it's like, but it's all at the service of my dad. And I would gladly look like a fricking idiot.

10 more times if it meant I got something finally right or something changed on his medical record that shouldn't have been there. So it's been crazy, but you're your best advocate. And if not you, so many you love.

speaker-0 (59:56.812)
I'm extremely proud of you and I think your dad is very lucky to have you.

speaker-1 (01:00:01.953)
Agreed.

speaker-0 (01:00:02.382)
I'm sorry, we're proud of you, man.

speaker-1 (01:00:04.408)
Thank you. I appreciate it. Yeah. I appreciate it, man.

Hmm... In the eye...

speaker-0 (01:00:11.79)
Arms of the angel. Ah, man. I bought tickets to go see an Ani DeFranco documentary, the neon, during a post-feminist theory conference at the interview day and they're doing a screening, because I love Ani DeFranco, so.

speaker-1 (01:00:33.698)
She's the singer that died drug overdose, right?

speaker-0 (01:00:36.63)
No, she's the one who's like very like, I am not a pretty girl. You're made unfair. Isn't there a kitten stuck up in a tree some way?

speaker-1 (01:00:45.652)
Who am I thinking of that that she's kind of like a crooner of the female crooner You had her album. I want to say you had a record She died tragically drugs, I Come on There it is wine house. Amy why I wasn't even close shit. Okay fair enough

speaker-0 (01:00:59.062)
Amy Winehouse.

speaker-1 (01:01:09.294)
All right, got a personal question for you. If you were

the teacher of third through fifth graders and you're doing Shakespeare and you're doing The Winter's Tale.

Would you edit out this line or keep it in?

speaker-0 (01:01:34.156)
still have time for you are such a theater geek now.

speaker-1 (01:01:37.454)
No, I cannot wait for I will literally I Will I will dance a jig on Saturday at 1130 when this play is done and I'm done with it. There's the line

speaker-0 (01:01:49.25)
Can you wear a beret out to it? Just do it for me.

speaker-1 (01:01:53.356)
Well, I gotta wear an ascot. He hath songs of all sizes. He has the prettiest love songs without bodgery with such delicate dildos and fadings. Jump her and thump her and where some rascal would break foul gap into the matter, he makes the maid to answer, no harm good man, do me no harm.

speaker-0 (01:02:19.854)
Do me

speaker-1 (01:02:23.951)
Should I have a fifth grade girl say that? No.

speaker-0 (01:02:30.166)
No you should not. No you should not.

speaker-1 (01:02:33.686)
Is it sad that she's already memorized it and I just didn't realize it at the time? Ugh. So what do you think the phrase with such delicate dildos and fadings, jump her and thump her, what do think that means?

speaker-0 (01:02:38.775)
Yes.

speaker-0 (01:02:53.41)
You know what, it's 12 o'clock at night, no idea.

speaker-1 (01:02:57.678)
It literally means fa la la la la or Hey, nani nani. Like in medieval ballads and Renaissance ballads, when they like had a rhyme, but they had more space than words, they would just make up funny things. It literally means nothing. It's just pure nonsense. But because of this, it gets incorporated into the corpus. And then 500 years later means something different.

speaker-0 (01:03:26.382)
Something very... How to get from that to that?

speaker-1 (01:03:31.264)
I don't know. There's something with Bilbo Baggins. I've made a bunch of Bilbo's when you're supposed to, and it's very confusing. Anywho, so I got to figure out how to delicately bring this up. What do I say now? Now that it's like, so I just walk up and be like, Hey,

speaker-0 (01:03:47.438)
We gotta cut that, sorry. On to the next thing.

speaker-1 (01:03:50.988)
This is how one commentary says modern ears hear dildos as a different word. But in Shakespeare's time, it was a nonsense refrain like tra la la la la or hey, nonny no. shit.

speaker-0 (01:04:07.66)
Well, good luck with that one.

speaker-1 (01:04:11.018)
I gotta reach out to mom too.

speaker-0 (01:04:11.874)
You probably should.

speaker-1 (01:04:15.16)
Dildos and fadings. That's what it's... Dildos and fadings.

speaker-0 (01:04:19.271)
Should we make that the episode title?

speaker-1 (01:04:21.422)
I hope not. hope not. But Dildo's a fake. And then the next phrase is in quotes, jump her and thump her. That's the thing. Which is a silly dance phrase.

speaker-0 (01:04:29.197)
Yeah.

We're just a sick perverted age, so we just can't help ourselves.

speaker-1 (01:04:35.458)
Peavis and Butthead really did ruin us, didn't it?

speaker-0 (01:04:38.166)
I mean that in Descartes, but yes. Damn it.

speaker-1 (01:04:41.356)
All right, Luke, I love you, buddy. Thank you for dealing with my... no, everyone listening, thank you for being my trauma counselors and whatnot. You guys are great. I love you guys.

speaker-0 (01:04:54.392)
Thanks guys if you enjoy the show give us a review I guess it's the thing that people is so if you can give us a nice review Don't give us a bad one. We really take it to heart or get too angry about it. So yeah Yeah, please so alright guys. Thank you very much go more. I love you, buddy And we'll see you guys in like two weeks Bye

speaker-1 (01:05:04.974)
You're stars only or get out.