Phil:  It's like paint drying, you know, like if you don't do it every single day, like you don't want the paint to dry and get you to kind of keep going.
Chris: That that's the perfect analogy fell a hundred percent. I think everybody's going to know what you
Phil: you have paint? Drang right now?
Chris: no, no. I try and keep our paint wet all the time. 
Phil: that makes sense. 
did you grow up watching cooking shows with your mom or grandma or brother or anybody?
Chris: I didn't, we didn't get into food shows. Let me rephrase that. I didn't get into food shows until Molly. I don't think I ever watched one in my whole entire life. And now that's kind of, if we're watching something, what it's going to be, She's not into the reality food shows like master chef. I think we watched more of like the, the kind of the docu series chef's table type shows or, or, some of the travel food shows, whether that's, David Chang is ugly delicious, or, somebody feeds, fell.
Have you seen, have you seen that show?
Phil: I don't think  I have, but it sounds like something I would really enjoy.
Chris: It's actually pretty fantastic. both of those are really, those are, those are two of our
Phil: called somebody
feed Phil. 
Chris: Yeah. So it's Phil Rosenthal, who was a producer on, everybody loves Raymond and he actually had a PBS show called Al have what's Phil's having. And, he switched over to Netflix and the title changed, but he just travels and experiences, culture through food.
And I think what's. So I'll ask them about how to show his, he just has this infectious  enthusiasm for everything. he just dives right in. 
Phil: That does sound like a ton of 
fun? 
Chris: you should definitely check that one out.
Phil: it seems like shows these days, whether they're on Netflix, which does seem like there's a lot of cooking shows on Netflix. But shows these days tend to, at least it seems like they tend to have more of a docu series type feel or reality, like beat Bobby Flay or, you know, one of those types of shows
or the great British baking show or 
Chris: Oh, that one's different. That that's in a category of its own. that's sacred. 
Phil: it's the best. 
Chris: yeah, I think I grew up thinking about food shows more in terms of like the U S style reality show where it's drama and, all the food network.
Stuff. 
Phil: Shop til you 
drop 
Chris: diners drive ins and dives type of deal, they weren't telling deep stories, like a lot of the other shows out now. I mean, I don't know if you've seen pad mud, her new show called taste the nation. I think it's on Hulu.
But it really dives deep into the immigrant experience. And it has a lot to say about kind of about who we are as a society. like what the U S is, and really we're a nation made up of immigrants and it's easy to forget that. she just takes like a really interesting deep dive into that and, There's a lot that you can say about culture and society in that type of format. I think it's super, super fascinating. And then there's this, one of the things I think we love is, hearing stories about other people, that aren't exactly like us.
Phil: Yeah, it definitely helps build empathy. I think that's why I love fiction. You know, you can, you can read some really great nonfiction books out there, but fiction and empathy, man. They're life changing. Anyways, I think the, the reason I was asking about the cooking shows is cooking shows. These days tend to have more of like that reality or, or doc type feel. but when I was growing up, the cooking shows that were often on that my grandmother would watch were more of, You know how to type of cooking shows. Yeah. Yeah. Very instructional. and you know, the hosts always seem to have it together. Like they would make these meals and they would just make it seem so easy. And this one that comes to mind was this old show called Yan can cook and such a great title, but he was this guy.
Who was just this master with the knife, he would shop in onion in a matter of seconds. or slice the cucumber super thin, always the perfect width.  he, and so many of these other, hello, who's for these TV shows always seem to have everything together. And they would mentioned what they were going to throw in the dish. and then they would. Throw it that spice in or that little, you know, pocket of onions or whatever. And at the end of the show, it was just like, Oh, I can do that. And then you try to do it. And you can't And it just kinda made me realize that they're doing things that we may not necessarily be doing. And really when you think about it, it's just because they've prepared everything ahead of time. That's it. That's the common denominator. Like these pros have just cut everything up before they started recording. And it just kinda made me think, is there actually something to that? Is that, is that a thing
Chris: Yeah,
Phil: the pros 
do? 
Chris: Well, a softball.
Phil: Under hand, the slow pitch.
Chris: So Phil, it almost sounds like you might be talking about Nissan Blas.
Phil: Oh reason. Plus I've not heard of that. It sounds French.
Chris: Yeah. honestly feel like that's something that I had never really heard of, until. somewhere in the past five, six years or so. and it's something that I'm not always good at. I think it's really a fantastic methodology to like apply to everyday cooking.
so.
at least as I understand, it means them floss literally means setting in place. And it's both like a mindset and the process. If you were to describe it. I think it's the idea of, being prepared ahead of time.
So that preparation looks like reading through the recipe, figuring out what ingredients you need and what needs to be prepared. and then laying it all out. I think,  that's another, strong part of museum bosses, how you have all of your utensils and, different. Ingredients laid out.
So if you need  a certain knife, is in this one spot and you don't even really have to think about reaching for it, it's just second nature and I love how it can simplify parts of cooking. cause it frees up brain space.
 you don't have to worry about how you're gonna prepare a certain ingredient while maybe another is cooking and potentially burning. And for me, that was always  a stress thing. And so I think, the implementation of me's on plus. Really really helps smooth out the process.

Phil: So if the recipe calls for one onion, Findlay sliced, or, you know, some minced garlic, a teaspoon of salt, all that stuff is already laid out ahead of time. You go through the process of chopping all the vegetables, measuring all the spices, and then when it's time to start cooking, you can just throw the stuff in at.
The various points of instruction of the recipe. And you've got yourself a nice little dish 
that's and plus. 
Chris: Yeah. And honestly, that was something even, even in that last Ratatouille episode, would have helped me a good bit. I think I was trying to do too much at once. you know, because it's, it's generally like a simple dish. I didn't. Cut my vegetables ahead of time. And it's still a bit of an experiment for us, so I didn't know if we wanted to have that on the episode or not.
and, when I was actually going through the process of not only like cooking, but preparing my ingredients and, dealing with the whole like recording and podcasting.
I think I just didn't have enough like mental space, to really track with what I was doing. I was just getting distracted and like stuff was falling through the cracks. So I think. A better, initial setting up of my space and my environment It would have really helped me at that specific time.
Phil: Yeah, I think looking back on that in the kitchen episode for the Ratatouille If we had cut the onions, cut the garlic, cut the peppers, the aid plant. If all of that had been done, an hour before we started recording. you probably wouldn't have burned your hands.
Chris: I think it's highly likely that I would not have of, but, you know, we were just trying to figure this out, this whole thing, you know, cooking, being dads, and recording a podcast as well. And that's fine. I think it was good, honestly. Like, you know, we could have cut it out. but, I don't think that would be a hundred percent like authentic.
And, and even, even the, in the kitchen episodes, I think like we're still trying to figure that out, figure out what that format looks like. so I think we have some ideas as to how to refine that and make it a little more interesting as we go. But in terms of like actual practical steps fell, how do you tend to, you know, go about that?
What does that look like for you? When, when you're getting ready to make a meal?
Phil: Well, typically I need to read through the recipe. Line-by-line I have been known to start a recipe before I finished reading through it. And.  I can think of a couple of times within the past month when, I was preparing a dish and Ashley came into the kitchen and asked me what I was making.
And then she takes a look at the recipe and to be like, Oh, babe. This was supposed to marinate overnight and it's like, Oh man, why didn't I read through the recipe? And that's, that's just kind of on par for who I am. So it's something I'm trying to get better at.
And I just feel like, you know, practically speaking this Mason plus method forces us to kind of read through the recipe and then. it won't be nearly as stressful.  and it's not hard. It's not hard at all. If your recipe calls for say onions and garlic, garlic, then oftentimes not always the case, but oftentimes the recipe is going to ask you to begin. Sautˇing your onions. And then after they've cooked for about five or six minutes, then you can throw your garlic in, Because garlic, as I understand it, uh, seems to cook a little bit faster than, than onions.
I mean, for one it's just a smaller, smaller and mass, but, I can't tell you how many times I've started. Sautˇing my onions. And then realized that the next step is to put in the garlic and I haven't even peeled the garlic yet. So then I either have to kill the heat and pull the onions off the heat so that they don't over cook and over caramelize. Or rush through peeling the garlic, and then you end up with some sort of Husker kernel inside the, dish. So just doing it ahead of time is very enjoyable. 
Chris: And I think that specific example was one of the things that always super stressed me out about cooking early on. I always felt like I was in this time crunch where, As soon as I put one thing on the clock was ticking for me to like read through the recipe and figure out what I needed to do next, what ingredient needed to go in and it always felt like this high pressure thing. when you have everything prepped ahead of time, it's the exact opposite. it's way more relaxed and enjoyable. And, I think it, it gives you. Time for some important things. so actually before I get to that, one of the things that I've never really. Totally understood for a while was my wife's fascination with tiny dishes, like tiny little bowls, ramekins and, she's has. Tons of them. you know, from the knife episode, we're definitely not ones to promote. Just having, a lot of superfluous stuff, things that you don't need.
Little kitchen gadgets that, really aren't going to use, 
Phil: yeah, if you guys have little tiny dishes or ramekins as they're called, you probably use them pretty regularly. I would imagine.
Chris: Yeah. And I didn't initially realize all of the utility that they had because. I wasn't really familiar with this idea and you know, those, those tiny little ramekins, you can measure out your individual portions of spices or, honestly like Molly uses it for things that aren't even related to cooking.
she'll like put out vitamins in it or something, but, I think it's actually like a little bit of that idea of me's and boss just kind of like spilling out to normal everyday life. I don't know.
I've heard that's like a culinary school thing, but, back to the idea of having time for things that are important, if your whole. Meal making experience is no longer as under the gun timewise as maybe it was before the actual prep time then to me, feels like it becomes a great, time and space to start introducing your kids into the kitchen and having them help When you're not in a position where you have to have those, carrots chopped in time to keep the other thing from burning. That's something that like you can hand off to your kids.
Phil: You know, we're going to do a taco Tuesday episode at some point, right.  we kind of have to 
Chris: that's a pretty fantastic idea.
Phil: yeah. I mean, especially since our, in the kitchen episodes come out, every other Tuesday shameless plug. And when we do that taco Tuesday episode, I think we should have our kids measure out the cumin and the chili powder and the salt and the pepper and every other spice that might go into that dish.
That's a task that they can do. It's super easy. It's fun. doesn't really create a whole lot of mass. It gives them ownership in the meal. And the last time I checked this whole podcast is about connecting with your kids and what better way to do that. And then by having them help you in the kitchen.
So
Chris: Yes. I so agree on so many levels.  it's also  a great way to start to build an appreciation for, food, for different varieties of foods. Like you can, you can have them try new things like. Taste testing and they can see how their meals are made. it's going to sound a little weird, but allow them to participate in  the work that goes into kind of making a household run.
And I think that's a place that you can allow them to have a part, and it doesn't have to feel like a chore. if that makes sense.
Phil: It 100% makes sense. And it's inspiring to me.  
Chris: You know our experience, especially with our older one that when he's around and sees things being made, he's a lot more curious about the dish itself. it's easy for him to be a little more narrow with his tastes, but, being in the kitchen and hearing us talk about.
What we're making and  what we're excited about in regards to that food it opens him up a lot more to, new things that are outside of his, his comfort zone.
Phil: Yeah, that's really cool. don't think I knew that about him.
Chris: he's become quite an adventurous theater over the past six or seven years. so she's his favorite now?
Phil: Do you know how to roll sushi?
Chris: tried it 
Phil: We did that once an add on date night, it was really hard. it's kind of like folding a fitted sheet. He really doesn't make sense, but those that do it, do it really well, kind of gives you a whole new appreciation for sushi
Chris: And there's a, there's a food dock for that. So 
  
Oh, have you, have you not seen, uh, Jiro dreams of 
sushi. That one is absolutely fantastic. It's it's a few years old. it's about a guy name. I'm pretty sure the pronunciation is Gero and. he's this like a master sushi chef. He's this master,
he's this master sushi.
He's this guy that makes sushi really well. I'm going to try to think. Yeah, he's this master sushi chef. That's a really, really hard phrase, Phil.
   
and anyway, he's dedicated his whole entire life to sushi and, I know, especially at the time of the doc, he was like widely considered one of the best sushi chefs in all of Japan. And, it's just a really interesting look at the humble, consistency that he's displayed over his life.
every day it goes back and tries to make it better, even at, you know, 80 or 90 years old. she has this really tiny little sushi shop. And I don't know if they serve  like eight people per service and no, not because of COVID. but, It's insanely expensive to ether, but it's a fantastic doc.
Phil: we have mentioned probably three or four or five different food docs. So far, and it just gave me this idea if this podcast fails and we decide it's not for us, and we should start a podcast where we just review food documentaries.
Cause there's so many out there and it seems super niche. 
Chris: That's great because my wife loves to watch them. and I do too. Maybe they've very, very, very much grown on me. it's not like a space that I ever really delve into before, but I really appreciated it all now. So,
Phil: have you seen the latest chef's table episode with Sean Brock?
Or at least the latest to come out on Netflix. Sean Brock is the guy who did husk he's he's here in Charleston. I actually think he 
lives in Nashville now, but 
he's got three husk restaurants. 
Chris: Yes, we did. We did watch the one with Haas. Yeah. there's a Pitmaster in Charleston on it. And so that's what I thought you were talking about for some reason, but now
Phil: I believe you're thinking of 
Rodney 
Chris: well. Yes it is. Yep.
Phil: Have you eaten it? Ronnie Scott's
Chris: No. 
Phil: Borough 
book of flights 
and come East right now. It's fast. Casual. It's not like you don't need a reservation. do you? That is some seriously good barbecue. When you were here, we took you to Louis barbecue.
Which is really, really good, but it's Texas barbecue.
It's not Charleston, barbecue. and seriously, like I love Texas barbecue, specifically Austin, Texas style, barbecue. Really, really good. but Austin, Texas kind of focuses on the brisket Charleston. you know, Southeast barbecue focuses on the pork and specifically, vinegar based pork and it is unreal. 
Chris: Yeah, I guess I, I don't know if I'd never really been exposed to. the whole hog that he kind of specializes in. always  more on the brisket,  side. I think it's just like what I've been around, so yeah, we'd love to go. 
Phil: this has been a really fun episode. We've been all over the map.
Chris: I think it's great I think there's a whole lot more to it than just like recipes and techniques. And I don't want to go as far to say as it's  a way of life, but , it's something that is a part of our lives and brings life to us and really connects to so many different areas of our lives.
whether it's Padma talking about the immigrant experience through food or us being able to, Help our kids learn how to appreciate not only food, but helping out in the house by being with us in the kitchen. And there's also a lot of quality time that can be spent there.
So I think that the topic of as food and  the different roles that it plays in our lives is  I think it's great. 
Phil: and
there's probably some ulterior motives there too. Like, Hey kids. Ah, could you please stop fighting and. Measure out these spices for me, I could really use the help and be like, Oh yeah, I've never done that before. 
Chris: quick tip right there. I think as this episode is demonstrated there there's so many ways to connect with food and your family that, might not always be in the kitchen.
and some of that, I feel like we hit here. and so if. Yeah. If somebody wants to actually go and take a look at one of these shows or docs, those, those would probably be in our show notes. Right? 
Phil: Yeah. Dad's kitchen code.com. Just scroll down to this specific episode visa plus and open it up. And there's all kinds of links, which I'll have preloaded for you guys to check out. And, you can also engage with us on Instagram and Facebook at dad's kitchen co check us out.
Chris: We'd love to hear from you. And we'd also love to hear stories and how your bringing your kids into the kitchen and, what those experiences look like for you
Phil: Yeah. How did you coax your kids into separating the seasonings?