Nathan Feltman === Vince: [00:00:00] Two different taxi rides. Both of 'em. The taxi cab broke down. Nathan: Is that right? Yeah. Yeah. That's not surprising. I don't know what kind of car it was, but it was, it was called, um, it was about a 90% chance it was called a ulli. Could be. Which, uh, in Russian, which is, uh, notorious for coming off the line, not working. Nathan: So the Russians go and try to start tinkering with it to fix it up because they don't normally didn't work. Yeah. Like an RV Joe: about, uh, say November of 2020. Where they're like, we gotta get this up the line. We're missing half the parts. Just ship it. Vince: Yeah, that's true. Little Northern Indiana reference there. Vince: Yeah. Um, one of the times it broke down, the driver said, you know, no, no problems or no worries. Just sit there and literally grabbed some tools from the front seat and it went around. Popped the hood. Started. Yeah. Tinkering with it. Were those just Joe: private label Yugos? Nathan: Yeah, basically. But they're Russian made instead of Yugoslavian made. Nathan: They're made in in Russia. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So that, that's cool that you had that experience. What else do you remember from that week? Uh, so Vince: it was part of a [00:01:00] student ambassador trip, so we would go around and meet with other. You know, kids in different countries that are our age and talk about whatever. Vince: Um, so I remember in that scenario we had met with some other Russian kids and we were talking about, uh, things at the time. I don't remember a whole lot of the conversation. Um, obviously it was different then than it is now. And did you, Nathan: uh. Have kids ask you for your tennis shoes, your blue jeans, and say Billy Joel tapes? Nathan: I don't, I mean, honestly, that, that's what people told me before I went, I took Billy Joel tapes, I took chewing gum, I took cigarettes because they, they had terribly made cigarettes. And you know, Russians at that time, they're still heavy smokers. At that time they were like 80% of the population smoked. Nathan: Okay. And so you could trade for. Pens like they would give you like they called linein, baby linen pens and these Soviet pens. And that was, what is it? Linen or Lenin? Lenin, yeah. Yeah, that guy. Yeah, that guy. Vince: I don't remember the students asking us, but I do remember going and visiting some sites and there were folks selling like, um. Vince: Old military, Russian military garb [00:02:00] and stuff like that. And they would, if, if not for cash, they would do it. Some sort of a barter thing. Yeah. Um, we may or may not have done some of that. Right. Nathan: Yeah. No, that's fun. Uh, I remember doing that. Got, uh, ru I still have 'em today. Russian hats. Matrika dolls. You know the nesting stacking, right. Nathan: Yeah. Dolls. That rush is famous for, um, metals, Soviet metals. I have a collection of those, which is a little odd, but, uh, interesting. Yeah. Right. Yeah. That's cool. And now Vince: you can get yourself your very own. Previously oligarch owned yacht for, uh, yeah. Pennies on the dollar. Exactly, Nathan: exactly. Vince: Next trip. When you do that, let us know and then we'll do a, we'll do a second podcast Nathan: from the yacht. Nathan: Well, I've been back to Russia many, many times and, um, now of course you can't go back because you don't want to get thrown in jail like, uh, some Americans who are sitting there today. Right. But, uh, it's, you know, the history, the culture, um, the people are wonderful, but, um, unfortunately they've got a rotten government. Nathan: Yeah. Yeah. Alright. Vince: Well we, we will pick up some views on that. Yeah, for sure. [00:03:00] Joe: Well, I think it's a, a a point you make though, not the, not necessarily the rotten part, I mean, outside of Russia. Um, but in general there are a lot of countries out there that I think most citizens, most of the populations say the government doesn't represent us as a people and as a culture, the government's doing their thing, right, wrong or indifferent, and to a whole array of varying degree. Joe: But I think it's true to form that. The people of a country. Are not necessarily the same. Nathan: Yeah. Um, and I, and I, and I think you're right, and I hear all the time, so I, I'm lucky enough, fortunate enough to travel a lot internationally, and I often will hear how is it possible that a country of 340 million people that you have, you know, two 80 year olds that are who they are, that are your choices? Nathan: And, um, I say yeah, and we, a lot of Americans wonder the exact same thing. How, how is it possible? And, um, but to your point, I think a lot of. Like people outside America think the same thing. And even Americans today, it's like, you know, our government is our [00:04:00] government, but, uh, you know, we live our, our lives and, uh, you know, continue with our families and our businesses and, and, uh, despite, you know, not always agreeing with what our country and our leadership is doing. Nathan: Yeah. Yeah. Vince: Hey guys. Welcome back to their episode of the Industrious Podcast. Thank you all for joining us from wherever you guys get your podcast, and if you happen to be tuning in on the Assess YouTube channel. Thank you for doing so. Hit that subscribe button if you haven't already done so. Hit that little notification bell icon so you can be notified when new episodes like this very one drop. Vince: We [00:05:00] would greatly appreciate it. We will not send you to Russia if you do so. So have at it. Uh, today we got a special guest, Mr. Nathan Feltman. Uh, Nate, welcome to the Industrious Podcast. Great to be with Nathan: you guys. Um, why Vince: don't you give our viewers and listeners a little background info on yourself. Nathan: Well, sure. Nathan: Well, you know, I'm a, I'm a Hoosier. I grew up in, uh, Mishawaka, Indiana, and, uh, went to, uh, what I like to call the Carmel of the North High School up there, Penn High School. And, um. Enjoyed growing up in Northern Indiana, but, uh, I couldn't wait to get the heck out. Uh, I remember just thinking, okay, I wanna, I wanna get outta here. Nathan: And, and I was brainwashed really early by both parents who were Indiana University graduates that nice. Uh, you, you're gonna go to IU and, and, uh, when you grow up on Bobby Knight, IU basketball and you've got two parents and not just. Uh, two parents, but extended family, many of whom went to, to iu. I knew pretty, I, I applied to one school, even though I was growing up in the shadow of, uh, the Golden Dome Notre Dame. Nathan: Right. [00:06:00] Um, I only applied to one school and, and decided, well, it's the Harvard of the Midwest, so, yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Although, I'm not sure we, we necessarily went that comparison these days. Well, it's a little, a little touchy these days. These days. That's fair. But, uh, I, um. I loved Bloomington, of course, and, uh, had a great four years there. Nathan: And, uh, decided to go to law school, which I, which I did. And I went to law school in Indianapolis at the McKinney School of Law. And, um, uh, you know, kind of got on my way, which was, uh, I was, you know, when I was, when I was growing up, I was very curious and, uh, and just following what was happening globally. Nathan: And of course, in the, in the late eighties. Uh, early nineties, uh, it was, uh, what was happening with the Soviet Union and, and, uh, what, what, uh, might transpire, meaning the potential collapse of the Soviet Union. And, uh, so I was intrigued, uh, studied Russian language when I was down at iu. I. And then went to the Soviet Union with a group of students to study the language, Russian language in 1990. Nathan: That trip really [00:07:00] changed my trajectory and, uh, kinda solidified what I wanted to do, uh, in my career, uh, with my career and, uh, continued studying Russian. Graduated from law school and then decided to go back to, to Russia after spending a couple summers there in 19 90, 19 94, and studied Russian law at a Russian law school and graduated with a master's degree in Russian law from the Russian law school. Nathan: And then stayed and worked for a big international law firm called Baker and McKenzie for a couple years and had an amazing experience. And, uh, you know, as American being in Russia in the nineties, uh, was a very, very different experience from any time before that. Of course, you know, after, after, uh, kind of what's happened over the last 20 years in, in, in, uh, in Russia. Vince: This is a very loaded question, but how would you compare to at, at that time? Uh, American law versus Russian law. Nathan: Yeah. Um, well, there are two very different legal systems. Yeah. So Russia is part of a civil law, uh, kinda society. And so German, [00:08:00] Germany has a civil law, um, history and, and, uh, and so it's very different. Nathan: Meaning it, civil law is not case law based, you know, common law, American juris, you know, jurisprudence is all based on case law. And you, you know, so if you're going to court, you look at what, what the courts have previously decided. Very different. In the Russian legal system or a civil, uh, legal system, civil law, legal system where you basically have a judge who interprets the, the statutes and that's it. Nathan: And they don't look at prior cases. So very different legal system. And I, you know, studied, uh, they have what are called civil codes and the civil codes, and then they have, um. It's kind of the basics of, of law, whether it's IP law or whether it's real estate law or, you know, limited liability company act, and you kind of drill down and, and, uh, then the judge has a lot of flexibility depending on the case, which is very, very different. Nathan: And in Russia, of course, uh, the judge, uh, often has supreme flexibility and decides based on, uh, kind of what the, [00:09:00] the, uh, the, I I'd call it, the regime, uh, wants in terms of outcome. So it's a very different system. It sounds Vince: like a secondary Nathan: income for judges. It, it has been, no doubt about it. No doubt about it has been, and I think probably continues to this day. Nathan: Yeah. Right. Yeah. Uh, Vince: so you start working for big firm in Chicago. Were you based in Nathan: Chicago? I was based in Moscow. Oh, okay. So I was, I was in Moscow and uh, spent. Uh, three years in Moscow at, at the law firm. And then I did go to Chicago after I, so I left, uh, Russia in 1998 after really was a fabulous, uh, experience. Nathan: Uh, learned a ton. You know, most lawyers, as you know, are all lawyers coming outta law school, really know nothing. It's all about the practice and learning from mentors and, and that's what I did. Um, and Moscow, but then, uh, decided I want to get back to the US and, and I, I saw some guys who, who had. Gone to Russia and stayed in Russia and married Russian wives and had families, and they were, they had become pure, true Russian experts. Nathan: And I, I decided I [00:10:00] didn't wanna do that. I wanted to come back to America and decided, uh, after about three years of practice, that, you know, if I didn't, if I didn't make that move soon, I was gonna, could turn into one of those guys and I really wanted to be in, in the us. So, came back to Chicago in 1998 and, uh, joined another firm. Nathan: Called Alzheimer and Gray and I really got into mergers and acquisitions. I, I didn't, I didn't know how much I'd like that, but, uh, buying and selling companies, I really, most of my clients were private equity funds. And so I really learned the art and the, the, the, the way you go about that process. And, uh, and I. Nathan: Uh, learned that I really enjoyed that. I love negotiation. I love trying to have win-wins for my client and, and the other party. And, uh, so that was, I spent the next, uh, many years actually kinda perfecting my, my skillset and, and, uh, conducting lots of transactions both in Chicago and then eventually I moved to Indianapolis in, uh, uh, that would've been 2003. Nathan: What was that? Joe: Sorry, sorry, what was that transition like going from, you know, [00:11:00] Russian law or international law? Yeah. A focus on Russian legal systems as you mentioned. Coming back to the US and not just shifting gears in terms of a legal system, but yeah. The, you know, the kind of specialty that you were focused Nathan: on. Nathan: It, it was a, it's a good question. It, it was a big, uh, transition. And, and for the first year, I, I, I had some opportunities, some law firms come to me and say, Hey, would you come back to Russia? And I, and I almost thought about it only because it was so fascinating being in Russia. I mean, as a expat, as a, as a foreigner. Nathan: Um, you know, it just. Just every day. It was a new learning experience every day. And I'm, my language skills were getting better. Um, you know, my legal skills were improving. Uh, so it was so interesting. And I came, when I came back to Chicago, the first year was a tough transition period, just being back in America and, um, you know, leaving a place that was just so exciting. Nathan: But, uh, that wore off after about a year. And, um, you know, again, I wasn't doing a ton of m and a transactions in Russia, so I was catching up actually from, you know. [00:12:00] People, you know, that were kinda my peers, you know, fourth year associates, basically at a big law firm who had done a lot of m and a transactions. Nathan: So I was, I was playing catch up, but, uh, you know, worked hard and, and, and, uh, eventually began to catch on, you know, okay, this is how m and a works and, uh, this is how you, you, you know, you do, do you know, as a young lawyer doing a lot of due diligence and you're mm-hmm. Then eventually you learn, uh, how to negotiate and what the more, more important parts of a, of a, of a contract are when you're negotiating out a, a, you know, an acquisition agreement. Nathan: So, um, yeah, but it was, it was a lot of fun because, um, you know, the late nineties, as you guys will remember. Was a big business boom. I mean, this is when the internet deals and the pre.com bubble, the pre dotcom bubble. So I was dealing, that's, that's what was Chicago for the first few years really was the, the do leading up to the.com. Nathan: And when the.com hit, you know, things changed dramatically and the deals just came to a stop. Right. And, um, but I had a great few years of, uh, of, of really learning and, and, you know. I, I remember pulling [00:13:00] all-nighters and we had a lot of, we had a lot of deals. We had, we had some of the first.com deals, uh, that we handled that were, uh, big, big deals for that time anyway. Nathan: Mm-Hmm. So it was fun. It was another, another fun period where I was learning a ton. I. Vince: And what brought you to India in oh three? Nathan: So, you know, the, the longer I was back, I was in Chicago for about five years. The more I began to think about, um, a couple things. One was I, I always knew in the back of my mind that I wanted to get in business eventually. Nathan: And that, um, while I learned a ton practicing law, had a great experiences, had great mentors, I always knew I wanted to get in business. When I thought about. You know, where that opportunity might best lie. I thought it'd be a heck of a lot easier just given, um, what I knew about Indiana. Some friends from college, some friends from law school. Nathan: I thought Indiana would be easier. Mm-hmm. To make that transition eventually. And the second thing was, you know, I, I was, I had just gotten engaged. Uh, I was thinking about a family. And is, that's a big one, which was, [00:14:00] and I'm watching some of these partners, my colleagues at the law firm taking an hour train ride from Wil Met or wherever have, you know, outside Chicago. Nathan: And thinking to myself, uh, I don't really want to do that. You know, and I wanna be at my kids', you know, baseball game or, or soccer game. And, uh, making that hour trek. And I already knew long hours at law firms, you know, it is. It can be hard enough, but having, you know, an hour ride somewhere didn't, was not very appealing to me. Nathan: And I thought, you know what? I know what life's like. I went to law school in Indianapolis and it's a big enough city where there's a lot of opportunity, you know, to uh, experience kind of bigger city amenities, et cetera. But, uh, it also is a small enough where, um, you know, it's easy to get around. It's easy to get to your kids' games and that sort of thing. Nathan: Yeah. I like telling Vince: people in New York City where it's seven ways to Kevin Bacon here. It's like two or three. That's right. Which is not bad. I mean, so I, you know, the young, going back to the, the young kids at IU that you're talking to, you're like, okay, that adage of don't ever burn a bridge. A hundred percent. Vince: Absolutely. Um, no doubt. But at the same time, the upside [00:15:00] is literally you're one or two connections away from just about anybody. For sure. For for sure. Which can Nathan: be really beneficial. Absolutely. Absolutely. No, you're a hundred percent right and it's turned out to be that way for me. And, you know, I, I had the opportunity to get involved, uh, on the political side with a guy named Mitch Daniels, um, volunteered. Nathan: So I joined Ice Miller. I was a, a young partner there, again, doing m and a transactions and, um. And, uh, you know, I hear about this guy who seems pretty interesting, who's gonna run for governor, and I volunteered and, and helped in that regard. And then I had an opportunity come out of nowhere to, to go and work, work with him. Nathan: And, uh, again, I, in the back of my mind, I, I had an interest in public service. Um, never. Thought that I would be necessarily, you know, someone who would step forward and run for office. But I always thought, gosh, if I ever had the opportunity to work with somebody who, you know, had the right things in mind and, and was doing it for the right reasons, I thought that'd be pretty interesting. Nathan: And, um, it worked out for me in that regard. Yeah, Vince: Mitch had a pretty good run for sure. Um. While we're all [00:16:00] IU guys, when he went to Purdue, I was like, oh man, that's, I, I have to admit that's, that's a pretty good get. Exactly. And I think, you know, now that, that, that tenure is over, like you look at it and like, I, Nathan: they well he had a great tenure run there, didn't he? Nathan: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, and we're fortunate, you know, I'm like, you, you know, I'm a big IU guy, but I, you know, the experience of working, uh, at, at a high level with Mitch for four years. Um, help me really appreciate what Purdue means for the state. Um, both schools are incredibly important and we've got a lot more schools that are incredibly important for the state. Nathan: But, um, you know, Purdue is, um, you know, is a, is quite a, quite a, a gem for us in terms of, uh, you know, on the STEM side and, and, uh, IU obviously has, has great programs in, in lots of areas as as well. But we're lucky to have two big 10 universities in a state. Yeah. Si the size of ours. Yeah. Joe: I'll give you the academic side of Purdue, but if you bring up athletics, I'm drawing line of sand there. Nathan: So don't even start. Well, we won't talk about basketball then, will we? Well, we can talk Joe: about basketball, but I think we're need to bring a therapist in and it seems to get charged an [00:17:00] hourly rate here. Uh, Nathan: yeah. I'm, you know, I'm, I'm, uh, one of the biggest IU basketball fans that, like, you guys probably. But, um, you know, so it, it's, it's tough, you know? Nathan: I mean, uh. Matt Painter's done a hell of a job there, but I always give my Purdue, uh, friends, I'm sure like you guys a hard time. Yeah. Because they get to the tournament and uh, things don't go as well. But, uh, I'm knowing that Indiana is likely not gonna be in the tournament unless they somehow do something they've never done before, which is when the Big 10 tournaments, they've never done it in 27 years. Nathan: Yeah. Uh, although they've had a couple nice wins here of late, right. Um, you know, Purdue is gonna be in it. And, uh, as an Indiana guy, I'm gonna, I'm actually gonna root for Purdue. I hope they make it to the Final four this year because, uh, yeah, that's fair. My, my poor, my poor Purdue friends are suffering and I want them to feel little better. Nathan: I don't know if I'm, Joe: I don't know if I'm a big enough person to far, you're not there with me. No, no. I. I remember watching last year's tournament loss when the, when the opening round for Purdue with a bunch of Purdue fans, and while they left, like they were leaving a, a horrible funeral. The rest of us, the IU fans that were in the room thought it was Nathan: Christmas day. Nathan: Oh, I [00:18:00] know. Yeah. When I get into these conversations, my friends, you know, I, I always ask them, you know, how many, how many banners do you guys have in there? And it's always a showstopper. And they, they always say, oh, you always have to go back to that, don't you? Right. Oh yeah. Vince: Yes, we do. Uh, I will say this real quick. Vince: Uh, being a girl dad times three, I, the last three or four years have gotten into the IU women's team. Yeah. And if you haven't caught a game or, or just seen it a little bit on the periphery, like. Yeah. It's, it's a good product to watch. Absolutely. Nathan: It really is. And multiple games. I'm super ex, so I, I watched, um, I didn't, I, you know, the, the game against Iowa. Nathan: Yeah. Recently in Bloomington was sold out and they, they beat him, uh, handily. I watched, uh, the one at where IU played at Iowa, and where Caitlin Clark, you know, she had a, you know, tough first half, but then just started, bury them in the Yeah. In the second half. I'm super excited about Caitlyn Clark coming to, to the fever. Nathan: I mean, it, you think the fever will take her? Oh, there's a chance. But I mean, think about like, I think she's on the board. What women's, uh, basketball, what it'll do for women's basketball. I mean, uh, it's exciting for Indianapolis for, it's really exciting for, definitely. I, Joe: you know, there was some [00:19:00] debate whether or not she would go pro or go back to Iowa because of NIL money that she was earning, which. Joe: Oh, did you hear? That's just, yeah, Nathan: like 2 million or something. Did you, how did you hear that? She's getting zero NIL money? It's all, it's all, it's all direct contracts with Nike, Gatorade State Farm. Okay, so Joe: let me rephrase. Yeah. Her endorsement money. Yeah. Which is correct. Not technically NIL, but it's not something that you could have gotten just a few years ago. Joe: Right, exactly. Um, and, and obviously then the, the argument is, well, she's gonna get WNBA money, which is not like, you know, she's not gonna be, she's not gonna have a money tree in the backyard with that, but the endorsements follow, they're all gonna come. Yeah. And her staying, you know, one of the benefits I would think, and this is purely my opinion, uh, as not being a sports marketer, would be her going to the fever, still being Midwest based, one state over from Iowa. Joe: Yeah. Same market more or less. Yeah. Just only benefits her. Yeah. It's Nathan: gonna be, it's gonna be exciting. But she's beyond the Joe: Midwest. I mean, her recognition is Nathan: just, I mean, she's already got, like I said, Nike, Gatorade, state Farm, uh, on board. She'll get more and, uh, you know, it'll be great. As I said, it'll be great for Indiana, it'd be great for Indianapolis. Nathan: Great for [00:20:00] Indiana. Uh, my friends at the Pacers always talk about the fact that, um, you know, when you got people sitting. In Europe or wherever, reading about the, the Indiana Pacers, you know, beating so and so. Just the fact that it's Indiana and it's Indianapolis getting the coverage and, and she's gonna take it to another level. Nathan: It's gonna be, yeah, it's gonna be exciting. Yeah. I, I agree. Joe: We went down to a Pacers game, uh, a week ago. Mm-Hmm. Uh, post Allstar game. I was out town for the Allstar game, but just seeing, I think it was actually, it was kind of cool to be. Yeah, I was out in Colorado that weekend following what was really local Colorado, but also national media coverage of All Star Weekend. Joe: Yeah. And Indy. And it was really cool to see that perspective it is versus just local media. 'cause obviously local media is gonna be biased about a local market. Uh, and it was talking about just having that exposure. It was pretty awesome. It, then you come back to the airport and as, and as usual, anything that indie organizes, it's just knocked Nathan: outta the park. Nathan: And that was, it was a lot pride. I mean, it gives our citizens a lot of pride, right. To see [00:21:00] that. And you're right. I mean it's, it's amazing how the whole community. It, it kind of really gets involved when we host Final Fours, super Bowls, all Star Game. Now we're gonna have this, this summer. We'll have the swimming, Olympic swimming trials. Nathan: Mm-Hmm. For nine days. It's gonna be nine days of NBC Prime time. Eight o'clock. I mean, for nine days in a row it's all gonna be highlighting Indianapolis. And, uh, it's, it's amazing what's happened in this community over a long period of time, the last three, four decades. But, uh, I watched some of the national exposure. Nathan: I just, I turned on TNTI think I went to a couple of the, the. Friday night and Saturday night activities. I didn't go to, to the Sunday all-star game. It was just cool like watching Reggie Miller and Larry Bird, you know, have a, have a conversa. No, it was, it was, who was it, Reggie, uh, Miller and maybe David Letterman. Nathan: I mean, they, I mean it was just cool, you know, talking about Indiana days and, and, uh, yeah, it's amazing what sports has done for our community. Joe: Certainly. Yeah. Uh, well it goes back to, you know, talking politics back to what the Hud nut years with the Pan Am games, which was kind of the, Nathan: that's the kind of the kickoff. Nathan: Yeah, absolutely. And, and the way they [00:22:00] engaged volunteers, I think they said there were maybe 40,000 volunteers to, uh, that, that. Participated in the PanAm games and, um, it really was the thing that kinda ignited, you know, the, the sports energy. And, and then they, they formed the Indiana Sports Corp, which, uh, has been instrumental in going after Final Four. Nathan: Then they attracted the NCAA to Indianapolis from Kansas City. That was a huge get because that gave us the regular rotation of being the final four. This year, we'll actually have, you know, Midwest round one and round two of the men's NCAA tournament coming up. Uh, this month. This month actually. So, yeah. Nathan: Uh, it's, it's pretty neat. And, you know, it's, uh, it's one of those big city, you know, attractions Right. That we get, you know, we got the Big 10, uh, football championship. Yep. We have, we're in the rotation with the Big 10 Basketball Championship. Joe: Get ready. I mean, you mentioned that the Hoosiers men's basketball program hasn't played in the Big 10 Tournament Championship since its inception, but let's, you know, IU football just saying. Joe: I hope you hope you're right. Championship Nathan: in Indie. I hope you're right. I mean, uh, we've got a new coach, right? Yeah. Yeah. [00:23:00] And uh, he, I, I've heard he's very energetic and um, you know, is bringing along a lot of his team where he had success. So, you know, we can always be hopeful as Indiana football fans. Nathan: Yeah. Vince: We'll Joe: talk about it at the next tail game. Who, who never thought you'd say, well, there's always football season. Yeah, Nathan: exactly. Exactly. Joe: All right. Well, for all the non IU fan Yeah. Listeners out there, we'll reel this back in and get back on track. So you, you've, you, you're in indie, you, you've established your, your law, uh, not practice, but your career here. Joe: You get pulled into the Mitch Daniels campaign. He's elected as governor, and Nathan: then what? Yeah. So, um, I was asked to by a, a guy named Mickey Mauer. Who's a well-known entrepreneur in this community to, uh, to come work with him at this new entity that Mitch Daniels was gonna create called the Indiana Economic Development Corporation, which would replace the former Department of Commerce. Joe: Isaiah, was it the IEDC at that? Was it Nathan: becoming it at that time? Yeah. There was no such transitioning. [00:24:00] There was thing as the IADC. It was the Department of Commerce. Yeah. And he put forward legislation to actually create the Indiana Economic Development Corporation. That was in early 2005. He had just started his, his first term, and that's when it, the IADC was created. Nathan: And so Mickey Mauer was appointed its president and he. Uh, encouraged me to, to come and spend some time with him. Uh, so I was the number two guy. I was, I was the general counsel and executive vice president was my title. And we went about kind of formalizing the creation of the IEDC hiring and, and new staff and, um, and really setting up something a little bit different than had been done in the state of Indiana in terms of pri private public partnership. Nathan: Really focused, uh, and more singularly focused on going after economic development opportunities. Meaning, you know, bringing new companies here, ensuring that our companies are here, are expanding here and not going somewhere else the best we can in that regard. And so that's what we did. And, uh, so I spent two years as in that position. Nathan: And then when Mickey decided he had committed only [00:25:00] two years to step down, uh, the governor asked me to be the next Secretary of Commerce. So I served as Secretary of Commerce. Uh, for the last two years of Governor Daniel's first term. So I was there for four years and then when I, when I, uh, started that job, I had no kids. Nathan: I was a young guy and when I left that job, I had one and one on the way. And I remember going to Mitch and saying, you know, I gotta get back in the private sector and I gotta make some money. And he said, you, you should do that. You're right. I understand. I've been there and you should do that. And, uh, so that's what I did and, and I left. Nathan: There. And, uh, in early 2009, I joined for a short time. I joined Baker and Daniels at the time now, fagre Law Firm. And, um, I had a great experience there for a couple years. But, and, and really I was looking for my next, uh, opportunity to get into business and, uh, and I found it and with a really good friend of mine who had started a company called Home Health Depot. Nathan: It was a medical equipment company and he wanted me to, to join him. And we talked that through and, uh, we were. Really great close friends, and we talked about the hazards of being in [00:26:00] business with two, two really good friends and, and, uh, jumped in. And, uh, we spent the next, um, eight years growing that company. Nathan: And, um, it was, it was a small company when we started he had had about 20 employees and it was, um. You know, a small, small company. And when we, when we, um, reached our, our kind of our height, uh, or zenith with the company, we had, um, multiplied revenue by about six x and, and we had, um, grown from 20 employees to 240 employees from one location to 25 locations in six states. Nathan: Uh, so it grew into a, for a relatively small business, it grew into a little bit of a complicated animal. And we started, decided, we kind of went into it. Thinking, let's do this, let's grow it. And one, one day maybe we'll exit. And we found the right opportunity to do that. And that was in 2017 when we sold that company. Nathan: Yeah. And then, and then all along comes Mickey Mauer, a guy who I'd worked with at the IDC and says, Hey, Nate. What are you gonna do now? And I said, well, I'm gonna look for another company 'cause I love [00:27:00] being in business. And, uh, he said, would you take a look or do you have any interest in taking a look at the IBJ? Nathan: Had never thought about the IBJ, um, knew it, thought it was a great brand. Um, had been lucky enough to be recognized when I was working for Mitch and their 40 under 40 class. So I thought, you know, I enjoyed that. Um, and so I took a look. He said, go down and check it out. Ask me any questions, do your due diligence, and, and, uh, once you've done that, make me an offer for, for part of the company. Nathan: And so that's how that transpired. Joe: Interesting. So what was, what was the itch? I mean, you, you'd been in law for, and, and then ultimately, you know, business, public life and government life for a bit. What was your itch to to become an entrepreneur? I, Nathan: you know, I knew it from a very young age, a very, very young age. Nathan: You know, when I looked up to certain people, um, you know, it was, um, you know. Uh, people who are doing things quite big in business. So I, so as part of my Russian studies and, and, and [00:28:00] things in terms of, uh, just enjoying paying attention to what was going on globally in, in Russia, a guy who really stood out to me was a guy named Armand Hammer and not, not Armand Hammer the baking soda, although he did, people confused him so much. Nathan: He ended up buying that company. But Armand Hammer was an entrepreneur who started, uh, Occidental Petroleum. Oh. Um, but I can remember as a kid, uh, I was, I, you know, my kids laugh at me now, but I, I, you know, 'cause I, I like watching reruns when I see them of Johnny Carson. I can remember, I remember as a kid watching Johnny Carson and Johnny Carson interviewing Armand Hammer, and I remember him. Nathan: Talking about, you know, so Arm Armand Hammer was also a go-between, uh, between the Soviet leadership and, and American leadership. I mean, so he was, you know, you know, personal friends with President Reagan and George, uh, h Bush after Reagan. And he had business interest in the Soviet Union, uh, oil interests. Nathan: And he, and I remember just a lot of stories that he told from a business and political, so I, I had this [00:29:00] interest. Not just in the political side and not just in the law side, but always in the bi on the business side. And I always in my mind, wanted to try to scratch all those itches. And, uh, that's what I've tried to do is, is uh, try to learn as much as I can, try different things. Nathan: I've always felt like, you know, life is short and, um. Try to just learn as much as you possibly can. Try to as many things as you can. It's always been my, my outlook. I don't know where that exactly came from, but, but, uh, I've always wanted to really try and when I, the more I've learned and more I've been engaged in business, the more I love it. Nathan: I mean, it, it does offer flexibility, you know, the opportunity to plan my schedule. I can be as busy as I want, which I, you know, probably oversubscribe myself often. But, um, but it, but allows me to, uh, also be in control and say, Hey, you know, if I wanna cancel this week's meetings and, and go with a, a good friend or my, or, you know, just with my family go somewhere I can do it. Nathan: Right. You guys understand that. And so, uh, always had that interest and, uh, when the opportunity came [00:30:00] with a really good friend, um, you know, it was like I, something I couldn't pass up. Yeah. Did the Vince: market have any bearing? I mean, you've gone from law to health. Uh, the health industry and then now to media. Vince: Does the market play into that much? Nathan: I would say for my choices, it didn't play in a lot. Now, what's interesting, uh, and your question is, um, both with the healthcare opportunity and with, uh, media opportunity, a lot of people said, are you, are you crazy? Why are you getting into that? And I say that on the healthcare side. Nathan: At that time in the, the industry we were in, which was medical equipment company and, and meaning, you know, it, we did everything from, we had respiratory therapists who provided ventilators to kids and adults. We, we provided mobility products like, uh, customized wheelchairs for people with a LS. At that time, Medicare was doing a program called Competitive Bidding, and they just kept lowering and lowering prices and it was getting harder and [00:31:00] harder to make money. Nathan: So the people in that industry. Literally said to me like, are you crazy? I mean, you're coming in at the worst possible time. We enjoyed like decades of like very high reimbursements and now they're just coming down, down, down, down. So that, so I'm like, oh, wow. I guess, uh, that it is tough and uh, and, but you know, the figuring it out piece, uh, is what I actually really enjoy. Nathan: Yeah. What I mean by that is my partner and I, we had to figure out, okay, well where are the areas of opportunity? Because there's always areas of opportunity. Anytime I, anytime I hear. You know, why are you doing this? And it's so challenging. I, I always think to myself, usually when it's most challenging, it, there's always, you know, there's always an opportunity that people are not talking about. Nathan: Right. The same thing with media. You know, in media business people say, are you crazy? I mean, newspapers are dying. Well, you know, the more I studied and the more I talk to people, the more I realize, well, you know. Yes, local newspapers, daily newspapers are having a really difficult time. Niche publications are doing fantastic and [00:32:00] uh, and I also saw kinda what you guys are doing. Nathan: I mean, what I also saw, there are opportunities to go beyond what we've done historically, and I think a lot of people don't. You know, didn't really think about that or don't always think about that. What, you know, what are the things that we're not doing that we could be doing? And, you know, I, I've stole a Mitch Daniels philosophy, which is, you know, he, he, he didn't, he always said, you know, my ideas aren't unique. Nathan: I, I, I look, he asked his team, look around the country and tell me things that are working, you know, you know, so the IEDC, for example, he didn't come out of the, that didn't come out of the, his like, you know, oh, this is a new brain. You know, coming out of, of, uh, nowhere. It was actually, he said, holy cow, look what Jeb Bush was doing in Florida. Nathan: You know, look what the Michigan had. Michigan also set up an economic development corporation. So he said, look, look around and find the best ideas and tell 'em let's, let's do some of those i new ideas in Indiana. I, I adopted the same philosophy, both that when I was with Home Health Depot, uh, and with the IBJ and in both cases, and you guys probably have industry association where you [00:33:00] go and you hear ideas. Nathan: Holy cow, somebody in California is doing something right. Let's, let's adopt that. That's what I do, you know, and did, did it. Home Health Depot, same thing with IBJ. You know, we started this new program a couple years ago, a couple years ago, called the 250 most Influential Business people. In the state of Indiana. Nathan: And I thought to myself, why isn't somebody doing that? And I thought, if I, if I don't do that, if IBJ doesn't do that, somebody else is gonna do that soon. I, I thought, why isn't Indianapolis monthly doing this? Why isn't, you know, the state chamber doing this? 'cause I saw, I. La LA Business Journal, the la uh, 500 Dallas Business Journal, the Dallas 500. Nathan: And, uh, and one of my goals with IBJ has been to really move us into a statewide platform, which we can talk a little bit more about if we want. Yeah. But, but this played right into it, and it's been a huge hit and it, and, and it really has helped us with our other strategies, not just. One program, but we've, you know, really been able to meet people around the state, you know, in Evansville and South Bend that we really weren't [00:34:00] connecting with on a regular basis. Nathan: So anyway, a little bit about philosophy, business philosophy, right? So it's Vince: a good segue. Um, you alluded to two questions I had written down, uh, once you made the decision to get into IBJ. Um. Two things. What, what op, what did you see in the business or that industry that attracted you? Um, and what now that it's however many years it's been. Vince: Yeah. What are some of the things that you have done to change, because the landscape has changed as you just noted. Um, and, and what are some of those newer things? Yeah. Nathan: Well, um, when I first walked in the door, um. The first few years I actually didn't run the company. Okay. I, I was a, a third shareholder and, but with the understanding with, with Mickey Mauer that I was gonna get under the hood and start figuring things out, I had, after eight years of, of Running Home Health Depot with my buddy, I. Nathan: I was tired, actually, uh, tired in that, uh, the healthcare world is, is tough. It, and, uh, anybody who's in the [00:35:00] healthcare world knows what that, what that means, why it's tough. I mean, dealing with, with, you know, tough diseases all the time and being in people's homes, it was tough. So, I, I, I, um. Was more of a advisor, but I was learning, I was really, really learning. Nathan: And what I saw when I walked in the door at, at the IBJ was people, uh, a lot of the team actually who really were kind of adopting this philosophy that newspapers are dying. And I, and which, you know, after buying a third of the company, that's not really what you, what you wanna see, right? It's not Joe: exactly the corporate culture we Nathan: need around here. Nathan: It's not, it's not, but, but as part of my due diligence, I also realized. You know, there is a huge opportunity here and um, and so, you know, we. We, uh, made some changes on the management team and we began to slowly change that culture and, and understanding of what, what was possible. Um, we had a philosophy, uh, the company did at that time that they were afraid to raise prices. Nathan: Uh, and despite the fact I said, gosh, I'm looking around at Cranes in [00:36:00] Chicago and New York and I'm looking at a business journal in Cincinnati and Louisville, and they're charging double what? We're charging, and by the way, we're doing better reporting. We have more reporters than all the places I just mentioned. Nathan: And, um, I think people who, you know, uh, subscribe to the IBJ, I think they value it. Just like I value the Wall Street Journal and I pay like. 550 bucks a year, whatever it is, a lot Right. Uh, to the Wall Street Journal, but I, I feel like I can't live without it. I think most of our subscribers have that feeling. Nathan: And, um, lo and behold, we, you know, and my, my person at the time who was ahead of what was, you know, audience development, circulation, was really scared to increase prices. And I said, we can't be scared. I mean, we, we. In order to do some of the investing things we wanna do, we've gotta, we've gotta, you know, be proud and we've gotta, you know, do what we need to do and, and be competitive. Nathan: And so we, we slowly did increase prices and we, we actually combined that with bringing some other people in on the technology side. We actually increased subscriptions by 30% over a, a few years, and [00:37:00] of course, increased prices. So, um. You know, the, I mean, at the same time though, you know, we're constantly thinking about how do you add value to a sub, to a subscription. Nathan: Uh, but that's just one, one example. Um, you know, it really required changing the culture and, uh, and really trying some new things. The company really hadn't tried a lot of new things in a while, so we, you've started doing events statewide. We ended up doing an acquisition, um, you know, a few years after I got there and we acquired Inside Indiana Business with Gary Dick. Nathan: Right. Yeah. And brought on his team. And again, that was part of that, the statewide effort to really have one platform that is, and, and really today we're the only platform really trying to cover the state in the way we're trying to cover it. We have more work to do and more investments to make to be able to do that as effectively as we want to do, but we're on our way. Nathan: And, uh, you know, I want it to be a place where, you know, we're connecting the dots for Hoosiers. Um, that, you know, if you're a business person in Evansville, you want to do business in South Bend, [00:38:00] that we're, we're, you know, a conduit to help make that happen. Whether it's relationships, whether it's just news of, of seeing what somebody's doing, you know, another part of the state. Nathan: Um, a lot of our companies in the state, you know, wanna do business. And I, and we've seen it like we've started doing events around the state and we see people showing up. Who are from Indianapolis in Evansville are showing up in South Bend because they want to, you know, do more in terms of expansion in, in other markets around the state. Nathan: So, so it's been, it's been fun just to try a lot of new things that I, I mentioned events. I mentioned this Indiana two 50. Um, the list goes on. You know, we're starting a new education event, uh, in May. Uh, and the focus there is about, um, I don't know if you've guys been reading about the apprenticeship program that, that we're really trying to launch in the state. Nathan: The legislature is working to enhance and encourage more high school apprenticeships, uh, companies, and, um. You know, the Indi Indianapolis Chamber of Commerce also is really focused on this. They sent a delegation last year to Switzerland to really study what, what they're doing. Companies like Roche, [00:39:00] who, you know, this is just part of their culture. Nathan: And, uh, it's a huge opportunity for, for Indiana especially, especially being a manufacturer focused state, to get kids who, you know, may not want to go to a college for four years, but get them connected to an opportunity. And then, you know, the companies like to do the training, right? I mean, we need Yeah. Nathan: Facilitate a trade. Yeah. And, but, you know, and give them that opportunity in high school to start, you know, learning about accountability and showing up and, and, uh, being drug free. All the, all the things that you, you guys know, need to, need to be the case, to have a solid worker and, and the fact that these are good wages, right? Nathan: Mm-hmm. And, and, and, uh, you know, there's, I keep hearing from people, my friends who are in manufacturing. It's hard to find and keep really good talent. I mean, the talent crunch has been happening, you know, for the last four or five years now, and it doesn't, you know, feels like there's a lot more needed in that regard. Nathan: Yeah. Couple Vince: things that struck me there. One, so I'm on the board at Providence Krista, Ray High School, and one of the things that attracted me to that high school was their, uh, corporate work study program. Uh, so it's not just you're going to class every day like a typical high school kid, but these, [00:40:00] these kids have to have, uh, internships paired with. Vince: Local corporate partners. Yeah. Where they go to a day a week to get, you know, real world exposure, which as a high school kid, you're not normally getting. Um, and it, and it's, and it runs the gamut from a, from a Roche to a, a smaller local company, um, and in a variety of roles just to kind of get, help them determine like right, what, what interests 'em, et cetera. Vince: Um. Yeah. And they might not have, they wouldn't have that opportunity otherwise in Nathan: many cases. Yeah. That's a great school, by the way. That's a, I mean, uh, I know folks who, who have been working there and, uh, it's Fred Yankee and Right. Others, and, um, it's amazing what that school's accomplished. So, good, good work on the board. Nathan: Yeah. Thank you. You, um, Vince: the, so two things that you mentioned that are interest, interesting, the, the two 50, uh, of business leaders that you're gonna highlight. Um, I guess my question is how do you determine those Mm-Hmm. And, and what? Um, what's the platform? What, what are you trying to accomplish? Nathan: Yeah. With that? Nathan: So [00:41:00] we have a nomination process. Yeah. And, um, but, um, you know, we don't get nominations all the time from people in Terre Haute or, you know Sure. Because they, you know, they're not, not aware of it or, uh, but the, so the process is, you know, are. Our, um, editorial group, uh, our IBJ editor, Gary Dick, with Inside Indiana Business, myself and a few others from the staff. Nathan: You know, we look around and find and, and, and study. We ask a lot of leaders around the state, like who's really involved in the community, who's leading, who's what are, whether it's economic development, whether it's workforce issues, education. Um, it's a iterative process where we, you know, one of the main things though that we look for, it's not just success in business. Nathan: It's, it's which, which is, you know, really. Really important, but also that they're contributing in the, to the community in some form or fashion. It's a big, it's a big part of the criteria. So that's, that's just kind of how the, how the process works. Um, in terms of, um, how it contributes to, you know, what we're doing at the IBJ. Nathan: Um, it, it really has [00:42:00] been bigger than I thought it would be towards our, in, in, in terms of the. Influence it has in our goal to really expand on a statewide basis. Um, 'cause we're hearing from these leaders, um, you know, what, what's important to them. Um, we're, we're connecting the dots. We have an event where we invite all these leaders and, and they're meeting and business leaders that I thought probably would've known each other. Nathan: I mean, uh, running big businesses in South Bend. Mm-Hmm. In Evansville. Never met before. And I, I hear the feedback from some of these folks who attend our event every year in Indianapolis and they say, that was awesome because I met some people I, I've read about through or heard about through the state chamber or some other organization, but never really had a chance to meet. Nathan: So helping connect, uh, people is, is part of what value I think we bring. And, and, uh, those, those connections often, as you guys know in business lead to. New opportunities, new relationships and, and positive outcomes for, for, you know, our city and state. So, um, so that's, that's, that's been really, really helpful. Nathan: That combined with doing [00:43:00] events statewide. So like when, when I we're, we're, we're just getting ready to kick off. We'll be call, call our Engage Indiana series, and that's nine events around the state. And so when, when we're, we're thinking about, okay, when we go to Evansville. Who do we want on? We have a panel that Gary Dick, um, uh, focus, you know, has, has, uh, at the event. Nathan: And, uh, when we think about, okay, who do we want on that panel? Like referring back to the, I literally open up our magazine. We're in year three now. So we have two magazines with leaders around the state and say, okay, we haven't had so and so on our panel. They, they'd be a great panelist. And the conversations at those events is all around what's happening in that region, right? Nathan: From economic development, workforce issues. Housing, uh, mental health. We talk about all sorts of things with the hope that that dialogue will lead to positive action and, uh, and bring people together. And, and the, the response to those events has been, again, like the Indiana 50, a lot bigger than we had would thought, uh, in terms of the. Nathan: Appreciation for, for, [00:44:00] you know, you know, us doing those events. Mm-Hmm. Nobody's doing something similar. So, um, yeah. It's, you know, it's, they all kind of go together. Not everything we do has been super successful, so, you know, but I, my my view is you try lots of things, see what sticks, and you're sometimes really surprised at what sticks. Nathan: Right. And, uh, and other times you say, okay, we tried that and we'll retire that and move on to something else. Right? Vince: Yeah. This is gonna be a dumb question, but I assume that. You look at the university network in the state of Indiana, we talked about IU and Purdue already. Obviously you have Notre Dame, but then you have Ball State Butler, Evansville, um, you name it. Vince: I would think that they probably play a fairly significant role because they do. I mean, you look at the networks that are attracted to each of those in those respective markets that for sure shrinks that state, the state down in for sure. Nathan: And in fact, um, so our Evansville event in April, uh, April 12th will be at the University of Evansville. Nathan: And uh, okay. It's gonna be a purple out. Probably, probably. And, uh, they, they call him President P because he, his last name is hard to pronounce, so I'm not even gonna try, but he'll be [00:45:00] involved. And the same thing, you know, when our event is in, uh, new Albany, be the Indiana University Southeast and the new chancellor there, Debbie Ford will be involved. Nathan: You're right, you're a hundred percent right. The universities play a huge role regionally in every part of our state. Notre Dame, you know, we'll work with them on an event. For South Bend this year. Um, and Purdue, the same thing we had our event at at Purdue, uh, last year and, and planning to do the same this year. Nathan: So yeah, the universities are critical. Um, you know, it's, it's more than just the university of course, but, uh, as we talked about earlier, we're just blessed to have so many amazing universities. Right. For, again, for a size of our state population, 6.8 million Hoosiers. We've got our share of, uh, great universities for sure. Nathan: Yeah. Uh, Vince: what is, I guess, I guess, share the future with us to the extent that you can? What, what does the IBJ Media of tomorrow Nathan: look like? Yeah, that's a good question. And we're constantly thinking about just that. Um, you know, I, what we're doing right now, uh, a podcast, you know, um, I. Our [00:46:00] podcasts are growing in terms of, uh, listenership and, uh, and ideas around, gosh, how can we help, uh, people and companies, um, support their efforts on podcasts. Nathan: So that's, you know, one small area, but, um, you know, we see doing more events. So we, we do custom events, uh, for some companies. Uh, and so we see doing more on that. Front our events are interesting in that, um, they make our relationship with our subscribers stickier. So, you know, we have, you know, we, we have probably a third of our subscribers who actually show up at an event like this Thursday we're doing an event at Blend Cigar Bar, and it's, it's the second year. Nathan: It's called Bourbon and Brokers, and it's sold out and, and really it's just a networking event that IBJ sponsors for the real estate industry. And, uh, that. When I, when we do something like that and it's really successful, and people say, gosh, I mean, I, last year after our event, they said, can you do another one this fall? Nathan: And I said, well, I'm not sure we can get it in, but what we're doing, we'll do one for sure next year. And here we are, it's next year. But, um, [00:47:00] events are, are something that have really grown. You know, I started at IBJI think we did 17 events this year, we'll do, I think 32 events. Wow. So we, we've doubled it. Nathan: Uh, and so that's an area of growth and opportunity and again, it, it helps us, um, be. More front of mind. Um, you know, it serves as networking opportunity. It serves as information like up-to-date information, what's happening in a certain industry. Uh, we do all in all types of industry events. Um, so I could see that continuing to grow Mm-Hmm. Nathan: And really, you know. We're, we're now, we're hiring reporters for the first time in that, that are stationed in Evansville, stationed in South Bend, in, in soon to be Fort Wayne. Doing more in depth coverage locally and regionally, uh, is part of our plan, and that's where we're, that's where we're headed as part of that statewide. Nathan: Effort that I mentioned earlier. So, um, I see us, you know, continuing to grow around the state and subscribers. I mean, most of our, today, most of our subscribers, I say most, you know, 80% of our subscribers would be Central [00:48:00] Indiana. Yeah. Greater Central Indiana. That includes Bloomington and West Lafayette. Nathan: Um, but, but you know, slowly but steadily, I wanna see that the numbers grow outside of Central Indiana. Joe: Well, certainly it sounds like the IBJ is less a physical. Media platform that's reporting on news that's already occurred and more of you've just gotten into really the connector Nathan: business. That's, well, it's a big part of it. Nathan: It's a really big part of it, and I, I think it's always been part of it, but it's a realization today that, you know, I mean, if you're a young professional, right, and you're thinking about what, how do, how do you advance your career? We wanna be a place and we think we are, but we want to better, you know, be more intentional about it. Nathan: How do we help a young professional coming out of iu, Purdue Ball State, wherever. To, to live out their dreams and to be, and be connected to people who are gonna help them live out their dreams and stay in the state. And stay in the state. Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, I'm a big believer, you know, uh, that, you know, I, I tell my kids, you know, go explore the world, but come back to Indiana. Nathan: You know, and a lot of people say, just we don't want 'em to leave. [00:49:00] Well, yeah, true. But we also, you know, I think it helps our state grow if you go out and explore the world and, and see what other people are doing, and. Opens your mind a bit and your mindset and come back and do great things in Indiana ab Absolutely. Nathan: Yeah. Yeah. Well said. Vince: Alright, that's good. Yeah. Well, we appreciate your time this morning for coming. Nathan: Well, it's been fun. Thank you guys for inviting me. It's been a great conversation. Likewise, Vince: look forward to, uh, maybe doing a follow up in the future to kind of see how that, uh, state progression is going and. Vince: Go from there. Sounds Nathan: great. Alright. Good to be with you guys. Vince: Awesome, thanks. I thank all of you guys for joining us on this episode of the Industrious Podcast. Thanks again for tuning in from wherever you get your podcast or if you're watching on the associate YouTube channel. Thank you for tuning in. Vince: Until next time, guys, don't forget, be industrious.