Compassionate Leadership: Insights from HR Executive Marlo Ricketts Green === DREAMBIGINTRO-SERDULA: [00:00:00] Welcome to dream big with big dreamers conversations for career growth, inspiration, and insight. It's time to dream big. Donna Serdula: Introduction and Guest Welcome --- Donna Serdula: Welcome to Dream Big with Big Dreamers. And today my guest is Marlo Ricketts Green. Marlo, thank you so much for joining me Marlo Ricketts Green: Of course. Happy to be here. Hello, everyone. Marlo's Journey into HR --- Donna Serdula: So Marlo, you are an HR executive. ~I want you to introduce yourself. ~Tell us a little bit about yourself. Marlo Ricketts Green: Sure. So, of course, Marla Green. I have over 20 years of HR experience. ~Um, ~I started in HR at a little known company called Amazon. ~Um, ~they were in their early stages and I've worked for a series of companies, whether it be Fortune 5 to Fortune 500 startups, ~um, ~private equity back, you name it. I've pretty much worked across most industries except for pharma. Donna Serdula: And what inspired you? I mean, HR is one of ~those, ~those fields where I don't think there's a single kid ~who's, ~who says, you know, ~and ~daddy, I want to grow up and be [00:01:00] an HR executive. So like what inspired you to get into this field? Marlo Ricketts Green: Sure. So I used to be in marketing at a company ~many, ~many years ago, and I actually myself and the entire team had a horrific experience. We had a really terrible leader, ~um, ~who modeled some really poor behaviors. And I got a chance to see HR in action. So we had three companies in this organization that we all set in one particular building and where we sat, we sat with another company and their HR team, and they saw some really bad behavior. ~And. ~I saw what that HR team did. I saw that they went to ~our ~our HR team who did not see any of these bad behaviors, and they not only reported it, but they also worked with the leader to change his behavior and that. Really, ~it just, it ~just hit me hard because I was just like, wow, these people can change bad behavior. These people can make me feel more [00:02:00] secure on my job. I want to do that because I don't ever want someone else to feel the way that I felt and the way that my team felt at that moment. And so that's what prompted me to get into HR. I took a huge pay cut cause I was in marketing. ~And, um, ~and I went and started working as an administrator at Amazon. Donna Serdula: And you know ~what I, ~what I like about that story is oftentimes people, ~you know, they ~hear HR and they get that shudder like, Oh my God, am I going to get fired? Marlo Ricketts Green: Yeah. Donna Serdula: There's sort of that, that feeling, but with what you just said, they approached the situation and it was, let's help you change. Let's help you improve. Let's help you be a better leader Marlo Ricketts Green: Yes. Donna Serdula: And that I think is, is that's, that's warm. It feels great. Leadership Evolution and Style --- Donna Serdula: I mean, when you look at yourself and you think about your own leadership style, you know, ~what, what is it that, you know, You know, what do you, ~would you describe yourself and how has that evolved over your career Marlo Ricketts Green: I would say as a leader, ~um, ~when I first started leading people in HR, I was terrible. I was really terrible. ~Um, ~because I always thought that things had to be one way. And one of the things that I [00:03:00] learned is, ~um, ~actually I had someone who I trusted who walked into my office one day and said, here's a book. It's called managing from the heart. And I read the book. It was an easy read. I have always encouraged people to read it. And ~it made me look at what~ It made me look at managing differently and approaching people as people. So what I was essentially doing was I wasn't repeating, of course, the bad behaviors that I had witnessed ~with another, you know, ~with my previous manager, but I was so stuck in my ways ~in previously.~ But what I learned, ~um, ~from my approach now is just to be authentic. You know, I share myself. I share my full self with my team. ~Um,~ I share good days, bad days. Of course, ~you know, ~I don't violate any confidentiality or anything like that, but I let them know that, ~you know, ~we all have bad days. We all have great days. And my goal is to hire great people and get out of their way. So part of my evolution was to learn that it's okay to have everybody on your team be smarter than you, because that way you can learn from them, ~but also you can, and. ~Encourage them to continue to grow, to continue to do great things. And so I've been really fortunate that [00:04:00] I've had a lot of great coaches along the way, and a lot of great people who have said to me, you're doing a great job, or, you know what, you're completely screwing this up. And so I've appreciated that. And so I think that's how I've evolved as a person and as a leader. Yeah. Coaching and Mentoring --- Donna Serdula: You know, ~and, ~and I love hearing that because you're also known for your own helping leaders with, ~you know, ~coaching and doing that professional development. So you enjoy it. Coming to you. How do you then give it to others ~and, ~and do it in a manner where, you know, they, they're motivated by it Marlo Ricketts Green: I try to explain the leaders, ~um, ~just different scenarios and I try ~to, ~to give them different ideas and put them in the shoes of the people that they're leading. Because so often when you're, ~when you're in that, ~in that shoe and then you're promoted to a manager, you've quickly forget what it's like to be in that shoe. ~So, or in those shoes rather, but I, ~I try to relate that to managers to be more authentic, to understand. And then when I'm coaching ~younger, you know, ~younger people who are new to HR, I encourage them to listen to their inner voice to create their own space at the table. And I really try to just get out of their way. I love to be able to hire [00:05:00] people who ~are, ~Are newer in their career and coach them and give them opportunities. So one thing that my team will always say, any team that has ever worked with me is that if I tell Marlo, I want to do something, then she's going to make it happen. And she's going to push me outside of my comfort zone and give me an opportunity to do it. And so I think it's great because then people find out if that's something that they really want to do, or if ~it's something that, you know, they've, ~they found a new passion for, ~and they can. pick it up ~and they can run with it. So I like to give people that opportunity. Challenges in HR --- Donna Serdula: You know, speaking ~of, of, ~of challenges and helping people, ~what was, ~what was one of the hardest challenges that you've had in HR and how did you resolve it? Marlo Ricketts Green: ~Um, ~I won't say when it happened, but I will say that one of the biggest challenges that I had in HR was ~I was, um, ~I was kind of stuck in the middle of a two CEO battle. ~Um, some, some companies like to have two CEOs and, um, ~the CEO who won decided that they wanted to pretty much decimate the remaining workforce. And he shut HR completely out. ~Um, ~he worked with an external lawyer and he gave me a list one day and just said, here's [00:06:00] 20 people. You need to fire and you have two hours to do it. And part of that list was my entire team. ~And, um, ~so then I had to, ~you know,~ I had no choice but to do it. And in addition to that, I was, ~you know,~ during that time that all of this was going on, I had executives texting me every day saying, I just got fired. What do I do? And so I'm waking up to daily text messages. I'm waking up to hearing what's going on. ~Um, ~it was a global company. So things were happening while we were asleep. ~Um, ~and people were really waking up to letters and, and I had no clue what was going on. So to have that happen, ~um, You know, ~my biggest thing was to, you know, I know people always think that human resources is the bad guy, right? But sometimes there are things that happen that are really beyond our control. And so my goal in that whole situation was to make sure that the people who were greatly affected still had a resource that still had a human, human realness. Right. So that's the other side of HR is the human realness. [00:07:00] And I didn't want to lose that human aspect because these people were, Experiencing a lot of shock and going through one of the worst times in their lives. So ~I couldn't, you know, ~I couldn't make it about me and say, ~wow, you, ~you have no clue what's going on on this. And the only thing I could do was still be a resource, ~even though they weren't in the organization ~to say, make sure you're doing this, make sure you're following your unemployment claims, make sure that you're getting me your paperwork so that while I am here, ~um, I can do what ~I can ~do to ~support you and be a resource for you through this transition. Donna Serdula: ~What, ~what happened after that? ~Did work, ~did you then find yourself displaced Marlo Ricketts Green: Yes. Donna Serdula: did you have to make ~some tight, you know, ~some tough decisions after that for yourself and your career Marlo Ricketts Green: Yeah, I knew what was coming. Thank God. I had a lot of people who were there to support me. ~Um, ~who knew also what was coming. So even though, you know, I constantly said, if this is happening, it's okay. I'm, I'm perfectly fine with this to happen. ~Um, ~just let's, let's negotiate as professionals. ~Um, ~and so I, I, I knew in my soul that it was going to happen, but, ~um, so ~I ended up [00:08:00] being displaced, but it's honestly the best thing that's ever happened because I was displaced. ~Um, ~I've met a lot of great people ~in the, ~in that transition. ~Um, ~You know, you're self included. So one of the things that I will say is that I always say to people, God will put you in the right places and around the right people for what you need at the time that you need it. ~Um, ~and had I not been displaced, I would have still been in the company and I would have still, ~you know, ~not learned all the great things that I've learned about myself, ~um, ~during that transition period. So ~when the, you know, I am,~ I'm thankful for it. I'm, I'm thankful, you know, I'm thankful. I no longer have to go through it. And I learned a lot because of what I, one of the things that I've learned is that in the grand scheme of things, that it's the people who matter the most. And when you treat people poorly, it never works out well for, for an organization. Donna Serdula: Oh, I believe that ~so, ~so completely. And ~I, ~I often ~will, ~will say to my clients, you know, if it's toxic, it's toxic. [00:09:00] You don't want to be there. Those are not the pockets you want to pad with ~your, your, your, ~your blood, your sweat and your tears. Marlo Ricketts Green: Yeah. Donna Serdula: organizations out there and you have to trust that, you know, ~if that, if that, ~if that door is not closing ~yourself, ~close it yourself and a window will open. Marlo Ricketts Green: Yeah. Donna Serdula: ~will happen and ~you just have to trust ~into~ Marlo Ricketts Green: And I agree with that. But so many people operate out of fear. It's fear of losing their homes and their families and their resources. And so ~it's, it's, you know, ~rightfully so nobody wants ~to, to, ~to operate in a state of loss. So, ~you know, ~I understand why people stay where they are and they are end up not so happy, but I agree with you. Just take the time, close the door ~and, ~and just move on. There's always something better waiting for you. Donna Serdula: ~I believe that so, so completely. So what, ~ Personal and Professional Growth --- Donna Serdula: What does success look like for you both professionally and personally. ~How are you dreaming big?~ What does the future look like for you? Marlo Ricketts Green: So for me, I have a list of goals. ~Um, ~the most important thing that I want to do is write a book about leadership. ~Um, ~not saying that I'm an expert, but just to share some lived experiences and to say, this is where it [00:10:00] didn't feel good. And this is maybe for future ~later ~leaders. ~Think about this.~ Think about. How you want to approach people ~and think about how you can, ~there's different ways to lead, right? ~And I've learned that. And ~one of the things that I've learned is ~that it's more important ~that when you align people and their goals with the organization, you can get more out of them because they feel like they're contributing more to the organization. They feel like ~they're able, that ~they're better aligned with the organization. ~Um, ~so that's, ~that's my, ~my biggest professional goal. ~Um, ~personally, ~you know, ~I believe very strongly in family. And ~my, ~my personal goal is to continue to see my family grow, to continue to see all great things happen with my family, but also extend that out. It's not just biological family. It's the family that you make. ~And, um, and so I, I know family is a taboo word when you think about organizations, but ~people who have been on my teams and people who I've led. They've become like family to me, even if we're no longer working in the same organization. So to see that family continue to grow and develop. And you know, when I talk to people who have been on teams that I've led, I love seeing their growth and development. I love being able to provide that reference for them. I love being able to coach them for their next stage of their career. And I love that they trust me enough to [00:11:00] reach back to me because that doesn't always happen, right? ~Usually if you leave an organization, you leave that, you leave those people behind and you don't talk to them. So ~I've been fortunate enough. ~That, ~that I still have team members who reach back out and who stay in touch with me and will text me. And I have leaders who have done the same with me. So that means a lot. Donna Serdula: Yeah. And, ~and, and, and that's, ~that's having a network Marlo Ricketts Green: Yes. Donna Serdula: like ~that's what we, ~that's what we want ~to, ~to tell people ~it's, ~it's just because ~you've, ~you've left an organization doesn't mean ~those, ~those relationships and ~those, ~those teams ~are, are, ~are dead. You want to keep those things alive Marlo Ricketts Green: You want to keep it alive. Like I have a leader who he and I now read books and we share books with each other. You know, I have someone else who, you know, we share cooking recipes, but it's just an authentic relationship and an authentic connection. Donna Serdula: Yeah. I love that. And I remember hearing, ~um, some, it was a comedian,~ it was Tina Fey. And when you look at her, the TV shows that she does, ~there's, ~it's always a lot of the same people. And she said she likes to work with them. They bring out the best in each other. And she's like, ~she always thinks to herself, ~how can I get the band back together? ~And, and I think there's, you know, that's, That's that, ~that's the way to look at your career as well. It's like, how can you keep that band together Marlo Ricketts Green: [00:12:00] I love that. Donna Serdula: keep having fun ~and, ~and doing amazing things with good people who bring out the best in you. ~Um, let's, ~what advice would you give to an aspiring HR professional who's coming up through the ranks? ~What, ~is there any advice that you would ~give, ~give them? Marlo Ricketts Green: Trust your gut. ~Um, ~read a lot and be ~off the~ authentic. But be honest, ~um, ~I'm known to be brutally honest, ~um, ~but not disrespectfully. ~So, ~so I'll tell you the truth, whether you want to hear it or not, but I can make it in a way that's palatable. So I would encourage people to learn how to speak to people, learn how to have a conversation and, ~um, ~just really trust your gut ~and, ~and create strong boundaries. Donna Serdula: Before we end Marlo Ricketts Green: Okay. Fun and Final Thoughts --- Donna Serdula: I normally say, how are you dreaming big? But I think I'm going to change up my question based upon the LinkedIn post Marlo Ricketts Green: Okay. Donna Serdula: you did today. And that is what Lionel Richie are you? So give a little bit of background on, on this Marlo Ricketts Green: okay. So, ~uh, ~[00:13:00] recently I had a coworker who I was talking to. I don't know why Lionel Richie always comes up in conversations with me, but I was mentioning Lionel Richie and she looked at me. She had no clue. And then she says, wait, you mean Sophia Richie's dad? And I said, no, I met Lionel Ritchie of We Are The World, Lionel Ritchie. And one of my millennial coworkers was just like, no, you mean Nicole Ritchie's dad and the guy from American Idol. And so I'm telling my mom about it. And my mom is like, no, it's Lionel Ritchie from Zoom and the Commodores. ~And, you know, and, and I play Zoom every weekend.~ So I will say that I am, We Are The World, Lionel Ritchie. And ~I, ~I firmly stand by it. So which Lionel Ritchie are you? Donna Serdula: I will say ~I, I, ~I totally resonate to We Are The World, but I also think of that great video where he's like in love with that woman from afar ~and, ~and, but she's, I think she's blind and at the very end ~she's, ~she sculpts a bust that looks just like him. Marlo Ricketts Green: Oh my gosh. Donna Serdula: think that's, hello. Marlo Ricketts Green: Yeah. Is it [00:14:00] me you're looking for? Yes. Donna Serdula: So that's the Lionel Richie I am, the bust, Marlo Ricketts Green: Oh my goodness. Donna Serdula: that music ~video.~ Marlo Ricketts Green: I love it. Donna Serdula: he also do Dancing on the Ceiling? ~That was~ Marlo Ricketts Green: He did do dancing. Yeah. So we're definitely the eighties Lionel Richie, but yeah, it's amazing to, to be able to have a career that affects so many different generations that spans generations. That's the kind of, that's the kind of professional dream big. I want to be, I want to impact generations over a long period of time. Donna Serdula: And, ~and you, ~you reinvent ~and, ~and you grow and you develop and you help other people and you keep reaching back and bringing people up along the way. I think Marlo Ricketts Green: Absolutely. Donna Serdula: that he did ~and, ~and that's something we can all aspire to. Marlo Ricketts Green: So that's the Lionel Ritchie I want to be. Donna Serdula: Fabulous. Marlo, thank you so much for joining us today. Marlo Ricketts Green: Thank you for having me. Donna Serdula: ~can you, yeah, how can, ~how can people reach out to you, ~um, ~if they want to learn a little bit more, ~how, ~how do they find you on LinkedIn or whatever other places you might be? Marlo Ricketts Green: Sure. [00:15:00] So they can find me on LinkedIn at LinkedIn, the standard LinkedIn address, Marlo Green, all one word. ~Um, no W's, no, no E's at the end, ~or they can just reach out to me via Gmail at marlogreen@gmail.com. Donna Serdula: Thank you much so Marlo Ricketts Green: Thank you. Bye bye.