Scott Jones 0:02 Welcome to dream big, with big dreamers. Conversations for career growth, inspiration and insight, hosted by Donna Serdula. And yours truly, Scott Jones. Here are the inspiring stories that shaped the careers of top executives, entrepreneurs and professionals. These empowering discussions offer guidance and advice. As you advance in your career. It's time to dream big. Donna Serdula 0:28 Hello, and welcome to dream big with big dreamers. My name is Donna Serdula. And with me today I have Shelly mirallas. Shelly barelas is the chief people officer at unchained labs, the life sciences company that's all about getting biologics and gene therapy researchers the right tools for the job. Shelley is all about creating spaces where people love to work, highlighting the strength of diversity and ensuring everyone has a voice. She leverages more than 20 years of experience working with global technology companies to drive company performance and long term strategic and operational goals. Shelley, thank you so much for joining me today. Shelly Morales 1:05 Oh my gosh, Donna, thanks so much for having me. It's great to be here. Donna Serdula 1:09 Well, the audience doesn't know this. But you and I have known each other for years and years and years. I am excited to have you on here. I want to talk I want to talk about a subject that I find fascinating. And I I'm pretty sure you do. It's all about HR, Shelly Morales 1:26 I find it fascinating. And I would love to talk about that topic. It's all about people for me, Donna Serdula 1:30 how did you find yourself in HR? Because like, no little girl is like, you know what, I want to be an HR executive when I grow up. So like out, how did you navigate that? Shelly Morales 1:43 The funniest thing is, is I have often said, if someone had said to me when I was little like when you when what are you going to be when you grow up, like the last thing I would have ever said is I'm going to be the head of HR. And that's because I think back when I was little there really wasn't like this role was so fundamentally different. Now, it was more about well, you know, who's going to fill out the form to get people hired, and or fired. And now it's really about people. And it's about how people make a difference in the success or failure of companies. And I feel very fortunate to have fallen into this role. And I say that. So to answer your question, Donna, it was you know, I was a receptionist at a company. And I was like thinking to myself, like, what else can I do? This is kind of boring. And this is back in a time where affirmative action had to be the you had to track literally on a piece of paper, every single resume that had come in. And that's what I did as my first HR task. And then over time, I just said, you know, give me more, give me more, give me more. And ultimately, here I am in the most senior role in my profession, and I'm just so grateful, because I really do have the ability to impact people's lives. And that makes me happy brings me joy. Donna Serdula 3:01 You know, what you said about HR being about people? You know, a lot of times I think even employees themselves? Know, they think, Oh, it's our products, oh, it's our services, it's our technology. That's what makes us who we are. But you know, I I've always really believe that, you know, the employees are, are that really the number one asset to a company? You know, without them? There's nothing? Shelly Morales 3:26 Yes, absolutely. That is true. And, you know, there's Every company has challenges on the product side, on the delivery side, and on the people side. And I think if you can focus on the the opportunity that's in front of us around people and really caring about people in a different way, thinking about how they will contribute to the success of your business, and then treating them with dignity and respect. throughout their career. You You have a different company at the end of the day. And I think more successful when you think back to you know, when you started, Donna Serdula 4:01 and it was the spreadsheets and tracking employees. When When did you start to see that that change that that segue that transition? from you know that that very traditional HR type of situation to where it's where it is now or where it's it's been, you know, it's turning into? Shelly Morales 4:21 Yeah, I would say around between 2008 2010 where it just you really started to see the evolution of business partnering in a true a true partner forum where HR is not just doing the operational components of the work but sitting side by side with the leaders and helping them make good business decisions. That's when the shift really happened. And I feel very fortunate that I kind of that's another one like I did all I've done every component of this function along the way in my journey to be the chief people officer. And but I grew up as an HR business partner So sitting with executives in their staff meetings, helping them make good business decisions, not just about the people, but about their function and their business and what they were doing, that, in turn has evolved to my role as a chief people officer making helping make company decisions, not just people related decisions. But all of those decisions are about people and have an impact on people. And so I saw that evolution. And I see now that we are closer, there are still many, many HR professionals, who try to be the police who tried to say you must do this fill out this form, turn in your stuff on time, and they stop treating people like adults, and they start treating them like children. And that's where I think HR professionals accidentally go wrong. Donna Serdula 5:49 As an outsider looking in, I do see those technology companies in Silicon Valley like that space seem to be the ones leading that that that charge a little bit in terms of, you know, the free the free food, and, you know, really putting their arms around their employees and treating them with with respect, but also, you know, giving them a lot of perks. Am I correct there, Shelly Morales 6:17 I do think it did start here in the valley in big tech, and that evolved to smaller tech and startups, however, I am seeing, it's not just about the food. And the funny thing is done. Like in the last year and a half, we've lived in a very different world, like the food has been in our own kitchens, like make your way to the kitchen, because that's where your food is. But, um, it is really about, I've always said the food isn't about feeding people, it's about caring about me caring about not how I don't have to worry about going getting my food, you care about me enough to do that, that in itself has expanded way past food. And honestly, it is in all different companies, I will tell you that this company I'm in now is a life sciences company. Obviously, there's tech involved, but it's not your, you know, cybersecurity, your, your What would I say other types of technology companies, it is a different type of work different type of business. And we care about people to like, it's crazy how much we're thinking about people? And yes, we do have some food at the office. And yes, we do have, you know, great activities and things and that, but it's about at the core? How do you treat people? How do you expect people to treat each other? That's what's making a difference in companies these days, because the world has changed in the last year and a half. And, you know, you kind of have this evolution of where companies have the upper hand and employees have the upper hand. And I think if you can find that balance on an ongoing basis, you just get consistency, you get consistency and how people feel about coming to work every day. And honestly, Donna we talk about culture, and what's our culture? And what are our values, to me culture is how does it feel to come to work every day? So rather, you are in big tech in Silicon Valley, or you're in life sciences in the valley or in another part of the country or the world? How do you feel? How does it feel to come here everyday is going to keep people? Donna Serdula 8:29 You know, right now everyone's talking about the great resignation, and how there's this huge shift in flux. And, and, you know, in some ways, I think there's people hunkered down over the, you know, through the pandemic, you know, they weren't making those changes that normally they would, but I also feel, you know, having, you know, getting away from that office, getting away from the politics, being able to reset yourself. I think a lot of people, you know, started to think, am I being valued? Is my company treating me the way I want to be treated? And I think there is this knowledge that there are companies out there that are doing the right thing and treating people like adults. And so I think that's part of it. I know there's been a lot of people who talk about, oh, it's burnout, it's burnout. What do you think is feeling this this great resignation? Shelly Morales 9:20 Here's what I think. In the last year and a half. People have felt stuck, stuck in their jobs stuck in their homes, and sadly stuck in their own minds because we have a lot of mental wellness challenges happening now. Because of COVID. I also believe COVID got a long tail like this is this is going to be with us. It's the what's happened in general is tragic. We've lost so many lives across the world. And we have lots of there's still a lot of things that need to happen for us to get in a better place. But if we speak specifically about this great resignation you're talking about it is that what I mentioned stuck in their homes second, their jobs, second, their own minds and people want change. There's a feeling of there is light at the end of the tunnel, especially that feeling I believe is happening here in the US and other parts of the world it is coming, it's come and gone. It's like this little bit of, oh my gosh, I can make a change now. So what happened? When COVID originally hit a year and a half ago, or so, where we started to see this, this companies were hunkering down, companies were letting people go, companies weren't doing increases. They were they really, they felt like they had the upper hand. This is not every company. And it is not across the board, but happened a lot. So as that has started to come out, in some cases, people felt like I wasn't taking care of I didn't get a salary increase. They, you know, this mental wellness Friday thing is not really enough, it's not what is making a difference. And so in some cases, people actually have been very well taken care of, but they want to make a change in something they can't control if they have to work in their home or not. And they don't want to leave their family, they want to, but they can make a change in their work environment. So they are. So we now are seeing attrition, like we've never seen it across all industries, I'm talking to many of my colleagues and HR professionals, every single place is seeing it. So if you add on, people are leaving because their company didn't take care of them. Two people are leaving who would normally not leave. This is having a downstream effect in in opportunity. There's lots more opportunity than there ever was. And also in compensation. So we are seeing salary compression in all industries. And in all jobs. Maybe it was that somebody didn't get an increase in now they feel like they can. So that's part of what's driving it. But if they leave, you know, here in the US, and most places, you can't ask somebody how much they make. So when you say what are your salary expectations, what they want is significantly higher than where they're at, even if they were paid fairly. Because there's been this feeling of, I didn't get an increase, or I think I'm worth more now. So we're seeing a lot of a lot of attrition across all industries, and we're seeing a lot of salary compression, and the market data is lagging in the first place, and just doesn't really accurately represent where we're at today. Donna Serdula 12:33 This movement, this flux, I think, in some ways, it's it's not like these jobs are being created, I think jobs are just opening up because people are moving, but it can, you know, for the employee, it gives them an opportunity to find something new, something different. And I think for employers, in some ways, it's it's nice to get you know, even though it's hard, you know, tire clearly, but, you know, I think it gives them the chance of bringing in new fresh talent. So in some ways, you know, a lot of times we talked about the great resignation as being this horrible thing, but I think there's a lot of pluses as well. What do you think about like the remote work? Do you think that plays a part in it and is remote work here to stay? Shelly Morales 13:23 The as far as the great resignation goes, I do think you're right, there is benefit to people find it, you know, having other growth or having other experiences. And it that does that will help some of this mental wellness challenges that I believe that we're seeing, I think it will help because people feel refreshed, they feel like I can get a different experience, maybe they get more money, and that's important to them. Money isn't the entire driver. I will tell you though, on the negative side for companies is attrition is very, very expensive. And voluntary attrition causes additional voluntary attrition, often because people's friends are leaving and when that when this cohort and this dynamic of people have been working, you know, in the trenches together, that changes, it changes a lot. So it's very expensive for company. So I do say it's important to try and keep people for the amount of time that it's good for them and good for the company. And if people want to leave, we should celebrate that and offer help to them Don't be so restrictive because I believe in I believe in the lifecycle of employment. So from the first time we speak to somebody to long after they're gone. I want them to feel like this was the best opportunity they've ever had. And I want them to speak good about us and refer their friends even when they're not coming anymore. So I think that is that's something that is your top of mind and when you mentioned that I just wanted to kind of bring that up Donna Serdula 14:57 to me. It's such an elegant way of Really interfacing with, you know, employees, it's, it's not that, you know, don't let the door hit you on the way out. But right, you know, let's, let's take care of you let's make this into something that was positive. It's, it's, it's so refreshing to hear that. I think a lot of times, you know, I don't know, if all employees recognize what's taking place, you know, sometimes you get so caught up in just the little things that you don't recognize these long arms that are, you know, embracing you. Shelly Morales 15:33 Yeah. And I think you know, different leaders have a different perspective on people leaving, and some leaders feel like you're betraying me by going, I'm, I'm the leader that would tell me that has told my team, I want you to stay, don't miss read this conversation. But if you ever don't want to be here, you don't have to hide that from me. Let's talk about it, maybe I can help you. Maybe there's something that's going on that I don't know about, that I can change. And so I think you have to look at, you have to look at that employee employer relationship a little bit differently. And it does tie back down to what I was saying, like, there's been an evolution and things have changed. And I would advise all of my colleagues, like, Don't try to be the police, coach, advise, give, you know, bring people along, there are some things like if it's illegal, or unethical, hands down, that yes, you You must enforce, if you will, but most other things like, try to have that soft rounding to what we do. I think that makes a difference in people saying, frankly, Donna Serdula 16:40 what what do you see is the biggest issue with working from home in that remote work? You know, I mean, for me, I'm looking at it, and I'm thinking, how can are we losing that? That commitment? And that loyalty? Are? You know, are people feeling like they're part of this company? And is it going to make it so much easier to bounce around and go from, you know, place to place and not build up that, that that I said loyalty before but you know, even that, that knowledge and that that tenure? I mean, that's where my brain goes, but what are you thinking? What do you see, Shelly Morales 17:21 I do believe that remote work is here to stay? I think for many people, it is it is about choice. It is about the ability to decide for myself, do I want to go to the office? Do I want to work from home, on this day or that day, I think the more we give hard and fast rules, then the more we're going to have people pushing back and saying I would like to work somewhere else that's more flexible. And and the truth is, in the last year and a half, most companies especially in the technology space, where a lot of the work can be done remotely, right. Of course, if you're manufacturing, like in our current environment, we have people that are actually building product, you can't build that product from your home. Like we must have people together, right? Yeah. So I think it's going to be a balance, I think it's going to be an evolution over time. You and I have talked about this probably more times, and we could count, I believe it's about integration. Like I don't I have four kids, two dogs, a cat, a lizard husband, like, it's kind of crazy land over here at the mirallas house. And my kids, most of my children now older, but i have i've never missed my kids games, because you can't get that time back. And what I've what, but what I've always done is worked at places that were willing to say it doesn't matter when you work. It doesn't matter where you work, it matters that you work and I believe work hard, like because it's and then I can give both to my both sides of my life, this integration. And at the end of the day. The truth is, we work for companies, sometimes for many, many years, and sometimes for a short period of time. Our families are never our families are you you don't get to pick them. Here they are. And your kids will say my parents either never made it to my game or they were there all the time, or something in the middle that works for your family. So I encourage leaders that I support to say if like be flexible as you can. If you people you need people in the office, then tell them that you need them in the office, but be realistic about why Donna Serdula 19:33 that makes sense. Let me ask you this just to sort of pivot and go in a totally different direction. You know, I'm thinking of the people who listen to this podcast, who want to dream big and level up and do more experience more, but sometimes they feel stuck. They feel stuck within their own visions they feel stuck within their own experiences. What would you like As someone in HR, but also someone who has really, you know, climb that ladder. And if you've accomplished so much, what, what piece of advice would you give to a person who is either starting out or maybe feel stuck? What can they do to start moving forward? Shelly Morales 20:21 So there's a couple things, Donna, and First, I would say, I would imagine that most people listening to this podcast, may have never heard of me. Maybe they just now are learning about me for the first time. Or maybe they've seen us, you know, share posts on LinkedIn. I personally, didn't go to college, I didn't go for one day. I never lied about that. But I certainly didn't openly tell people for many, many years. And that was because I had this like Gremlin on my shoulder, that meant I wasn't good enough. Now people are like, Oh, my gosh, like, you didn't go to college? How can you be the chief people officer, I can be the chief people officer, because I just got that Gremlin off my shoulder telling me that I wasn't good enough. And I think everybody, rather you have a very, you know, amazing degree, and you've gone to school, and you've learned a ton of things, or you are, you know, just trying to figure it out. And maybe you're doing it simply by learning on day to day basis. You just have to believe in yourself. You just have to have that grit and tenacity to be successful. And some things are gonna work and some things are not. And so I think the the way to get unstuck is to believe in yourself. And if people around you are telling you, you're not good enough, or they're making you feel like you're not good enough, then you need to go around other people. And you know, surround yourself by people who believe in you and people who will give you a chance. I literally was just having a conversation yesterday with someone who is a fabulous person who is great at her job, who feels very stuck. And I said, Why do you feel stuck? And she said, Well, I don't have a degree. And I said, Have we talked about the fact that I don't? She's like, I guess we never talked about that. So I just shared with her why and how I got to where I am. And I would encourage people, like help others get unstuck, help them get that Gremlin off their shoulder. Donna Serdula 22:24 Good advice. Really good advice, Shelly. And, and I think a lot of people just don't see themselves and other people something that she's looking at you and saying she's got everything. And she clearly, you know, comes from that privileged background, you know, had the education and no, you, you had a different path. But it was a path that took you where you wanted it to go. Shelly Morales 22:47 This is why diversity is such an important component in every workforce, and why I personally am dedicated to it and believe that it's not what we say we're going to do. It's what we do. People do often look at me and think, oh, you must have had privilege, you must have had a lot of things, I have had a lot of benefit. I grew up in a great part of the world. I had, I have a family that has been extremely supportive. And and still I was like, I don't know, I don't know if I can do this. And I just took chances. So that's what I would. That's the other piece that I would add to that is take those chances and ask for help. And advice. Donna Serdula 23:27 It's it's finding mentors, and talking to people getting that advice, and you can't go it alone. I think that's that's that's actually kind of like the whole point isn't you can't go it alone. You can't go it alone. Isn't? go it alone, you've got to ask for help. You need that support. Yeah. Shelly, is there any final thoughts that you'd like to give us before we say goodbye? Shelly Morales 23:50 Just kind of reflect on on. You mentioned in the beginning that we've known each other for a long time. I literally, I think I connected with you when I was thinking about, I need to show up differently. Like, I need someone to help me. And I've been in HR at that point, probably 10 years. And I was like, I can't write my own resume. And I found you to help me write my resume. And we have been, I would say friends now for what, 15 years maybe. And I couldn't count the iterations on my resume and my profile. And it was I'm so grateful to you and to the things that you and the team have done. And I think you know, it's about like you just said it's about asking for help. And I am willing, so if anyone hears this podcast and wants to reach out and say, goodness, gracious, could you give me some advice? You know, let me know, because I'm here. Donna Serdula 24:44 Thank you for being that mentor. Thank you for being my friend. And I really enjoyed this podcast. Thank you so much. Same. Thank you. I hope everyone has a beautiful day. Bye. Scott Jones 24:55 Thanks for listening to dream big, with big dreamers. If you like the show, please do us a favor. Go into iTunes and write a review and give us a rating or share it with a friend via social media or email, if you think they'd benefit from these conversations, thanks again for listening, and we'll catch you next time. Until then, keep dreaming big Transcribed by https://otter.ai