00:00.00 sidekqpodcast And Hello welcome to the first and experimental new format of panel episodes for psychics and pyquest that we'll be calling parlays at the platter. The goal is to invite guests of the podcast who share a similar field of expertise or passion to invite them to come together and have a lovely hour or so on the topic. 00:00.00 Johnny Yes. 00:19.95 sidekqpodcast I'm joined by 3 wonderful guests of the podcast to inaugurate this new feature those of you at the aristocratic level of patronages on the Patreon will get to hear this as an early release ah on on Patreon so kudos to you? The plan is is. 00:20.32 Johnny Um. 00:34.93 sidekqpodcast Eventually make these available on the regular rss feed because I think these conversations are too cool and and too important to just indefinitely keep behind the paywall so without further hesitation. My first guest is a former football player who started out as a big foot in Wisconsin then became a university of wisconsin badger. Before he became a center for the dallas cowboys aside from an illustrious career of sportsmanship. He also double majored in computer engineering and computer science while at you of w and now is the cofounder and cto of Demi Plane a company that creates digital toolsets. For playing tabletop roleplaying games which can be used as an aide to playing in person or remotely online you will recognize this guest as the creator of biwick the death tyrant Beholder chef featured in episode number 66 very happy to once again, share a pint and parlay with the great and awesome. 01:19.86 Travis Um, yeah. 01:26.46 Travis Hello Hello Thanks for having me. 01:26.51 sidekqpodcast Travis Badrick you're welcome. Yes, my second guest likewise a football prodigy that started as an eagle in California was a university of nebraska corn husker bobcat and then chose to become a university of Las Vegas rebel instead of going to the badgers in Wisconsin. After college he had opportunities to be with the minnesota vikings and the Los Angeles wildcats before he found a home as a fullback with the Cleveland Browns he remains active with training and plans as next moves in the world of the pig skin you will recognize this guest as the creator of clover the dwarven crystal merchant featured in episode number 92 I'm happy to crack a cold one in conclave with one and only Johnny stand the 4. 02:07.80 Johnny Hey, thanks for having me I will say you made it sound like I chose you know u lv over Wisconsin and I don't know many people that would make that choice because it wasn't a choice that I that I made but I all love to my alma mater you and ov but that was a little bit earlier on that I chose. Nebraska but all love to Madison I love madison. 02:26.15 sidekqpodcast Boom All right. 02:28.51 Travis Yeah, Madison's great 02:31.18 sidekqpodcast And of course um and my final guest for this evening is the biggest Florida gators fan that I know personally he grew up playing fantasy football and baseball regularly and enjoyed being a cross country and enjoyed being a sports nerd as he grew up as well. He. Competed and cross-country running at his college he shared with me on his episode his passion for being a lover of not just watching sports entertainment but doing so with the friends and family that you love these days. He's an ambassador for take this the nonprofit which seeks to so which seeks to decrease the stigma around mental health. And to increase support for mental health and gaming. He is a game designer a Twitch streamer and his boss is Travis Fredrick because he is a community and support manager for demiplaying you'll recognize this guest as the creator of sahara the dragonborn werewolf blacksmith featured in episode number 77 I'm happy to raise a toast and round Robin with the bold and brave Joshua Simons 03:30.50 Travis Specifically. 03:31.74 Josh Um, thanks for having me I'm I'm glad that you ah started off by saying you know experts you know with with with experience and then enthusiasts because ah I'm the the sports enthusiast in the group and they're the professional athletes of the group. 03:37.20 Johnny Um. 03:40.72 Johnny I. Yeah, but you got the comment saying that you're a passion for being a lover so I don't think we got that it it was a it was a lover of watching Sports entertainment. But I So I just saw passion for being a lover. 03:45.52 sidekqpodcast Um, it's. 03:48.96 Josh Well you know, love her drinker same thing. That's right? Yeah, fair. 03:51.91 Travis It's the thing I wish wish to have him life still love her. 04:00.47 sidekqpodcast Um, well I hope you appreciated the introductions that I wrote for all of you I I took all of 5 minutes to craft each one. So. 04:05.96 Johnny They're incredible. Thank you Kurt. 04:06.74 Travis Another present. Yes, thank you, Thank you? Thank you. 04:11.60 sidekqpodcast Beautiful. So yeah, welcome to the parlay at the platter. Um, how is it with all of you here virtually together in the levitating platter. Whether some of you work together or you know some of you are just in similar fields but maybe haven't had the opportunity to talk with each other before. 04:28.19 Johnny It's It's a moon. 04:29.37 sidekqpodcast Because if I recall I think on Johnny's episode he was saying oh I haven't had a chance to talk with Travis yet. But now I have the both of you in the same virtual room as it is. 04:39.43 Johnny Yeah I think I met Travis the for the first time when we did that one. It was some twitch stream that we got to talk about like football and d and d I was actually able to get miles garrett involved in that one as like a kind of a last minute edition which was which was fun. Um, considering that I was with you know, 2 all pros and then just. 04:44.82 Travis Um, yeah. 04:57.20 Johnny You know that I'm here too. But yeah Travis and I have been able to have some contact last last couple of months too. So it's ah it's awesome to be internet friends we we haven't been able to meet in person yet. 05:08.84 Travis Yeah I agree. It's really fun to meet people that share different passions you know, ah we all can relate on several things since that's why we're here, but you know having ttrpgs as a ah leveling ground and then finding other things you know Kurt it was really interesting. 05:14.93 sidekqpodcast Are e. 05:19.58 Johnny Um. 05:24.21 Travis Getting together with you over our share for beer at ah at a brewery in Dallas when I was down there and um, so when you can find multiple interests and find ways to connect on multiple levels like that's ah, that's definitely a lot of fun. 05:24.79 sidekqpodcast A. 05:25.52 Johnny Here. 05:36.99 sidekqpodcast Um, indeed ah doing okay down there. Mr. Josh. 05:42.76 Josh Yeah, just a quick blip there on the internet I think I mighta kick the cable. 05:46.68 sidekqpodcast Ah, classic. Well we'll make sure I will will cut arounds. It'll be as if you were here the entire time. Yeah well yes since since this is kind of like ah ah you know like a panel style episode. Um. 05:53.40 Josh Perfect I was what are you talking about. 05:53.90 Johnny I. 05:53.43 Travis Ah, yeah, just cast invisibility quick. 06:02.84 sidekqpodcast Where the you know the the theme going into this is kind of like sports athletics and d and d and so I prepared a list of questions and certainly invited Joell if you know you have a spur of the moment question that maybe you want to ask another panelist or something like that. But I didn't know how you kind of wanted to have have this begin. What's what What's the vibe of the the virtual room if you will. 06:26.33 Johnny So I'm sure we'll get off on our own tangents with ah with whatever question you want to ask so fire away with the questions I'm I'm excited to hear him. 06:31.83 sidekqpodcast Okay, all right? Well then we'll go with the easy 1 the first one. What is your personal favorite sport to spectate. 06:34.79 Josh Um, yeah. 06:44.46 Johnny Oh that's a tough one because I I don't know how if how you felt about this Travis but while I was playing um with the amount of football that I was around and why the film that I watched I didn't find myself watching games in my own free time. 06:54.51 Travis And. 07:01.99 Johnny Um, so I don't know if it's like now that i've've I've been off the team off a team since August of 2022 I've definitely. It's hard to watch. You know when you're not on a team. It's ah it's hard to like look at all the guys that like oh man I wish I was in that position because I'm still trying to get back there. Um, my favorite sport. Growing up was always baseball and I just love people get annoyed with the speed of the game. It's actually something that I love I will say the new rule that has the pitch clock is awesome and it makes games go by really fast which is great again. That's relative because it's baseball. But. 07:35.21 Travis Since. 07:35.29 sidekqpodcast Are. 07:38.90 Johnny I'd say Baseball's probably my favorite sport to spectate huge dodger fan over here. 07:40.00 Travis Awesome I think for me I think for me I agree a little bit. It was really odd I had no time you know we would occasionally watch ah a primetime game on a Thursday or Sunday night or maybe a Monday night or something like that. But that was more of a. Was more about the people that you were with than it was ah the game you know football. Ah in America has been kind of a a meeting grounds of sort. It's a reason to get together and so that was usually the reason for those that's why I was watching those I do find myself watching more. Um, now that I'm done mostly watching old teammates hoping that they don't get hurt and you know wishing them success along the way. But but honestly my favorite sport to watch I think is hockey I fell in love with hockey when I was in college. I got to go to my first game at Wisconsin and the Wisconsin team was great and then when I got to go to Dallas I ended up meeting someone down there that was able to get me into games fairly often. So I got to go to the stars games pretty often and and that was a lot of fun. So hockey's ah, a great one for me. 08:35.91 Johnny Are. 08:51.25 Josh Yeah, so as someone who I played football in high school but I was too skinny to continue after like freshman year. Um I've always enjoyed watching football. But. 08:51.74 Johnny I. 09:04.60 Josh I think in particular for me 1 of the things that I love most about watching sports in general is um, the the electric atmosphere in ah college games I feel like ah the crowd um is really like. Enthusiastic and invested in a way that at professional sporting events right? Like you have adults who were like oh like I'm too sophisticated to you know rip my shirt off and and scream at the top of my lungs for 4 hours ah but you know college kids they don't know any better and so they really? ah There's an enthusiasm not necessarily for the game so much as it's just for the experience I feel like ah but I love the energy for college sports. So I would say college football. Ah, probably first and foremost for me. 09:56.39 Josh Although I do kind of want to bounce off of something you said there. Ah Johnny talking about like while you were playing. You know you have like no time and no desire to watch sports because I feel like and maybe this is the same for you? Travis. 10:05.16 Johnny But. 10:14.19 Josh Like where I'm at right now where professionally like my day job I think about tabletop gaming you know like I wake up and I think tabletop gaming until I go to bed I don't have the time or desire to like sit down and play a game for fun 90% of the time because that's work and I think one of the like. Things that I'm learning in my life right now is how to have a healthy divide between work and play and since tabletop gaming is my work I have to find other things to play right now which has actually caused me to get more into watching sports and more recently because I'm like oh I want to do something that isn't just sitting in my computer you know. On on Demiplane rolling up characters. Whatever and so I'm going and I'm you know watching games at Buffalo Wild wings or something like that and and ah digging back into sports but they didn't have time to do for a few years you know, kind of early early career. 11:04.68 Travis Yeah, it's funny how that works for me. It was almost the opposite What happened to me I used tabletop roleplaying games when I was playing football as an escape from from my day job. You know. So now we work it now we get to work in tabletop roleplaying. Ah you won't find me escaping back to football but I do find escape. 11:09.61 Johnny Um, um, absolutely. 11:22.62 sidekqpodcast Um. 11:23.78 Travis Outside from there the best that I can but it was great for me to use to utilize the tabletop role-playing space as a way to get away from the everyday grind of ah football. You know there's a lot of opportunity there and it's ah it's a really interesting field to be in and you know I loved the time that I was in there but you always have to. Find something else to get your mind off that otherwise you'll go crazy just studying over and over and over all the time. 11:47.96 Johnny Yeah, the healthy balance of between like work and like personal life whether that you know and it is funny because we like the 2 jobs especially like you Travis have had is between 2 things that people normally think of as being play. 12:03.42 Travis And right. 12:05.22 Johnny And when you're but when you're living it. It's not it. It does end up feeling like work. It's the you know I think being an Nfl player is the best job in the world but you know and I wouldn't trade it for the world. But it's still work. Um, but you know like you said Travis like the escape still needs to be something that is away from that so that's. 12:10.71 Travis Awesome job. 12:24.23 Johnny The whole reason why I found D and D in the first way. So how I found Tt Rpgs is when I was in college I think it was my junior year I was injured and I just wanted to like get away from football for a little bit and I just wanted to be able to experience something that I had thought about before but I never really had the time or opportunity to be able to dive in and finally got to experience D and D and. 12:31.44 Travis Yeah. 12:43.75 Johnny You know, history ever since then. But yeah, it's definitely been the way for me to be able to escape from ah the job that is sports that have had. 12:55.94 sidekqpodcast And unfortunately I don't really have a horse in this show because I was more of the choir nerd and the and academic. Ah you know fine arts type. So I didn't really do any sports I I mean unless you consider my time in Junior high when I was involved in the my. 13:01.52 Travis Um. 13:13.75 sidekqpodcast Junior high was involved in the Chuck Norse kick drugs out of america tang sudo program. So I did that for a little bit and then you know, kind of tried to keep up with martial arts here and there but never got it would be like ah what was it in ah in the office when Dwight Schru was like oh yeah, I'm a white belt in ah in this. Form of marial arts but you've been doing it for 14 years and you've spent how much money. Yeah, no, so but ah all thank you? Well, it's like I've been adopted by my wife's. 13:39.43 Johnny Well as an unofficial ambassador to sports. We consider you one of us. Ah. 13:41.83 Travis I agreed. 13:47.95 sidekqpodcast Family who are extreme sports lovers. So with my living here in Dallas it means I have to you know root for the sooners and and such which is like my wife and my mother-in-law's favorite team and what they say goes. But I do have a fondness for the aggies and and like Josh you know a fondness for. 13:50.79 Johnny Color. 14:07.74 sidekqpodcast Division 2 like my college team. The angelo state rams who I still personally maintain got their logo copied by the Los Angeles rams because the logos are very suspect if you look at the 2 of them and I think Angelo States had their logo a little bit longer. So. 14:11.90 Johnny A. 14:27.33 Johnny So interesting. 14:27.48 sidekqpodcast But that's just my thing all right? Well, let's see moving on and making sure we we you know put in some interesting questions that also involve D and D as well I thought of this how often do you find yourself using the athletic skill when you're playing a ttrpg should it be. Used more often or should there be like some other mechanic similar to it. 14:53.78 Johnny Um, that's a tough one I feel like it's something that gets like crossed up with acrobatics a whole lot and especially because Strength is very specific to certain kinds of classes. Um like unless you're a fighter. 15:02.86 sidekqpodcast E. 15:07.58 Johnny A barbarian or a paladin There's not a whole lot of use for strength in a lot of the classes. Um, and you know dexterity holds so much more like importance. Ac um, you know saves and people tend to use acrobatics as like a higher skill so like if it's climbing something. Lot of times can I use acrobatics. So well I don't really think of like an acrobat climbing something. It's like that's an athletic skill but I don't know like I don't it is funny how it's like all encompassing at the same time because like and if you put me and Simone Biles next to each other. It's like. 15:31.71 Travis A. 15:35.87 sidekqpodcast Name. 15:43.74 Johnny She'll be able to do a whole lot like some very different things. A lot better than I could but it's still kind of the same same goal. So yeah I don't know it's kind of an interesting whole thing I think I think athletics could probably be used more often. But I think it has its place. You know grapple checks shoving. 15:46.34 sidekqpodcast A. 16:00.84 Travis I find myself avoiding athletics and I don't know exactly why probably because of the reason that that Johnny laid out there that it's it's not necessarily quite as overall useful but I find myself trying to finagle my way through things utilize the. The way of the word to get out of situations or to directly derail the campaign I've been known to to take a left turn when it's a clear straightforward pathway. But I enjoy trying to talk my way out of situations and I think. 16:29.00 Johnny So. 16:35.78 Travis D and d and and tabletop role-playing games are a great place for that to happen because you can go through you can try and get yourself an advantage you can you can actually try and talk the Gm into giving you you know either advantage or a. You know some sort of bonus just by what you have to say so you can actually influence it more than just the dice whereas athletics unless you get really creative in the way that you're doing it. It gets really hard to to modify that so that's why I enjoy using the you know a charisma based check a little bit more than the athletics. Check. 16:51.43 Johnny No. 17:10.56 Josh And yeah, I feel like if if I put my you know like game design hat on here for a minute. Um and I look at sports right? I don't think Like. Dodging a tackler or or blocking or evading a block is a strength only ah skill check or or in some cases a dexterity only skill Check. Um, and that's where I think ah I Really like the idea of tabletop games. 17:25.76 Johnny And. 17:41.58 Josh Um, like like for instance, that comes to mind is you know the world of darkness systems where you can sometimes um, use 2 attributes to make a skill check because I think that is maybe a little more reflective of real life and I realize that I'm not answering the question and I'm deliberately dodging it. 17:58.72 sidekqpodcast I'm hoping this. 18:00.55 Josh To talk about game design theory here for a minute but I think there's there's something to be said about um the the ways in which we kind of simplify situations in order to gamify them and I think ah like the strength dexterity like. Split is something that's like a great example of that because I would wager that both Travis and Johnny here are probably much more agile than I am because they've had to be at a professional level even though I'm certainly like not a very strong individual which means like i. They they just have me on all counts right? and and and so I think there there there's it is not a dichotomy is I think really what what I'm getting at but ah yeah, that's that's my tangent. 18:47.48 Johnny But it is funny though because D and D does like it's not really well used, but there is that system of being able to transfer proficiency and a skill to another like stat so people like often will use like okay I'll do an intimidation check but use the strength score rather than Charisma score. 18:47.90 Travis Stupid. 19:00.41 Josh Um, yeah, um. 19:05.22 Josh A. 19:06.16 Johnny And I'm wondering like is there a way to use athletics in a stat that like isn't strength. Obviously I think you can use in dexterity which I think is probably a really good way of doing that kind of combo. It's not acrobatics. But you're also using more dexterity than strength so role in athletics check using your dexterity. 19:22.18 Josh Um, yeah. 19:22.51 Johnny And I wonder if like there's probably not and any kind of way to be able to do that with like intelligence or um, you know constitution or something that's probably is like we can probably creatively figure out something but ah yeah. 19:31.90 sidekqpodcast I Flex my brain harder to think better. 19:34.45 Travis Yeah mean I think though I could make an argument for intelligence there. You know Johnny as well as anybody that leverages key in ah if you're Goingnna block if you're gonna be moving some but. 19:38.22 Josh Um, I feel like yeah. 19:41.39 Johnny Um, yeah, yeah, hello man wins. 19:48.41 Travis And Leverage is not necessarily only a strength or you know, athletic type movement A lot of it has to do with you know how you position your body and how you take advantage of snap count and how you anticipate what a defender's going to do So I think you could make an argument that intelligence could be. 19:50.70 Johnny 8 20:02.42 Johnny Um, it's true. 20:06.32 Travis Could be kicked in there as well. 20:09.61 Josh Yeah I think in particular you could also like if I was to try to gamify football into you know fifth edition rules I would argue that like calling an audible ah at the line would be something like an athletics. 20:22.83 Johnny Are. 20:26.47 Josh Intelligence check because you're trying to like use your understanding of the playing field and the physicality of the guys in front of you to create an opening in a way that requires a snap judgment as opposed to or maybe even wisdom I don't know that the bit. 20:37.51 Johnny Sure. 20:41.58 Travis I Wisdom be here there too. 20:45.61 Josh Don't get me into the intelligence Wisdom dichotomy. Anyways. 20:46.40 sidekqpodcast Well book smarts like memorizing the plays versus like how it's perceived on the field in the moment that might be the difference between intelligence versus wisdom I suppose. 20:55.24 Johnny Um, because that's definitely like a specific skill like I've known plenty of guys who would probably rank low on the intelligence stat but are but know this know this like the playbook like the back their hand It's like it's specifically something that you learn how to learn. 20:56.45 Travis You have. 21:10.19 Travis Yeah. 21:12.31 Johnny As a football player and and I'm not going to name any names. 21:14.79 sidekqpodcast Okay, see we're getting some? Yeah, we're getting some interesting discussions here. Yeah I'm liking this. Let's see moving along. Um, how did your love of sports translate into a love of tabletop gaming. 21:23.50 Johnny Um. 21:31.83 Josh Well apparently I'm a lover according to Johnny so okay, okay, fair point. 21:35.40 Travis Um, with the truth. 21:35.56 Johnny That's according to Kurt. 21:37.68 sidekqpodcast Um. 21:42.36 Johnny I'm not going to answer this one first again I've already been tune row. 21:42.90 Travis Ah, yeah, Josh go ahead. 21:48.12 Josh Um, yeah, you know I think one of the the defining characteristics of who I am as a person is that I pick something and I hyper focus on it I think that's called Adhd. Um. 21:51.31 Johnny The. 22:03.45 Josh Ah, but in particular for me. Ah, for things that tend to be hobbies like both sports and at least initially tabletop role-playing games were it's something that since it started as an escape from. School or work or whatever. Um, it's that thing that you think about while you're ah you know at the day job or in school and don't particularly want to be you know, paying attention in math class or in that big meeting that could have been an email. Um, and so ah. It just kind of starts as that thing that like rolls around in your brain. Ah and you can't get rid of it. So um I don't know that like it's necessarily a 1 to 1 comparison just like a general like enthusiasm for things that spark joy. 22:53.35 Johnny For you. 22:56.14 Travis Yeah I like that and I I think for me the the ability to have a new and different challenge is where that came in you know I fell in love with sports because while I was good at them naturally but too like it would. Everything was different. Every play is different. You can run the same play a hundred times against the same opponent and you're going to end up in a different a different place and that's one of the special things about tt rpgs is you can run the same campaign. You know a hundred different times and I promise you're not going to end up in the same place so have the same exact story. The sandbox nature of it and the the collaborative storytelling aspect that it contains makes it different and challenging every time that you do it. Um in in in turn makes it interesting every time you do it and I think that's where it has translated a little bit as for me. 23:54.21 Johnny And yeah, for me, it's um, it is funny just how much they do relate because an old adage is like sports is the greatest drama like there is no better storytelling than a really great sports game. And I think the best way that you can kind of relate the 2 is okay if I describe a group of people coming together to defeat overwhelming odds does that does did that describe a d and d party or does that describe your favorite teams like comeback victory like to to win the game like it's it's it's very much just storytelling. 24:24.14 sidekqpodcast A. 24:29.51 Johnny Altogether Um, you know you're trying to defeat kind of you know, be get past conflict and you know that's what the best kind of storytelling does. That's what gets you excited. That's what gets you coming back and that's like you know. The biggest fans that I know are sports fans and ttrpg fans and there's not that much difference between the 2. 24:50.71 sidekqpodcast Okay, and then let's see how have your athletic abilities and skills impacted your role playing in a ttrpg. 25:03.26 Travis And I think I think for me, it's led me to be a little bit more creative I would not call myself a creative or an artist by any means I don't I don't have a lot of the skills to you know, put art on paper or or write a song or anything like that. But. 25:10.75 Johnny So. 25:19.64 Johnny So. 25:23.20 Travis Um, my creativity comes in the in the realm of problem solving and that was something that is probably 1 of my best athletic abilities was solving problems and and in that in turn reading defenses and things like that but problem solving is a very. Quick and easy transition into tabletop games. You know it's all about problem solving. It's about how you can get your group from 1 point to another or overcome a challenge or something like that. So I think I think it has made me a better player of these games because it it has led me to problem solve first. 25:52.38 Johnny Are. 26:01.84 Travis Instead of you know, trying to attack or or you know trying to immediately engage in the situation. 26:11.87 Josh I I like that um I think so so when I'm role-playing a character you know I try to find touchstones things that um, you know I can relate to that I think other people can relate to um. 26:12.15 Johnny So. 26:26.28 Josh Yeah I try to find you know the the humanizing elements of that character. Um, and so while I was never a professional athlete I did play a variety of sports you know throughout my childhood and so we'll sometimes draw from those experiences to connect to. 26:27.56 Johnny Are. 26:45.74 Josh A fighter or to a Barbarian or a character who likes to get you know down and dirty ah in in the front lines so to speak. Um, and so I would approach this question just simply from the more experiences you have and and the wider variety of experiences that you have. 27:01.20 Johnny Um. 27:05.50 Josh The more Ah, you're able to connect with different types of characters and so um I tend to pull on um, experiences playing sports when I play characters who might you know ah play a sport of some variety or pull on a competitive. You know character someone who who has a competitive nature. Um I Think that's really the touch point for me is um, okay, how do I get in the head of this character and then how do I take those lived experiences that I've had. And translate them into this fictional world into this character who isn't quite me but is you know a shadow of me or shares some of my attributes. Um, and so having something to connect to there makes it really easy to step into the shoes of that Character. So. 27:57.93 Johnny Yeah, for me I think um I I think you might have mentioned this at the very beginning I spent a lot more time playing quarterback than any other position in my football career I played it all the way through college all the way through high school and just changed when I got to the Nfl. And I think one of the defining characteristics of a quarterback is kind of the leader of the offense and I think that comes out a lot when I do roleplay um, not intentionally so because nobody likes somebody who like hogs a spotlight or like always tries to like go in front of the ah the party to be to be the face like in every single character. Um, but I think it also has helped me in other ways because you know what is being a quarterback but like just basically being like a really good point guard just getting assists right? like you're just trying to hand off success to other guys. Um, and I think that's something that I've really been able to take to while role-playing is being able to. Um, turn the spotlight to somebody else and show that like you know, give them the big moment like recognizing someone's strength or something that they're trying to set up for like a character arc or growth or something and be able to turn to that to be spotlit. And help them have a moment at the table which is always my favorite part of playing. So. 29:13.90 Josh Well and I think there is something to be said about like the archetypes in in characters I think of like a captain America type character who because they have the respect of everyone on the team people look to them as a natural leader because they know them and trust their judgment and I think the quarterback in a lot of ways. 29:16.30 Johnny Are. 29:32.91 Josh Should at least strive to have that kind kind of relationship with the folks on the team where people say yeah like you're going to make this play call and we're going to go along with it because we know you and we trust you and we respect that you're going to make the decision that you know makes the most sense in this scenario. 29:33.67 Johnny Right. 29:48.92 Johnny I I'd like to think so um. 29:49.82 sidekqpodcast Does that translate across all the other sports whether it's like you know the captain of a basketball team or you know the I don't I don't know if there's a similar position on baseball or or even in a hockey team which I know after listening to an episode of no dumb questions and Matt. Whitman and Destin Sandlin had 1 of their good buddies on and the ah hockey enthusiasts on to explain the concept of the game and basically how it's like rugby on skates and how there is like this whole. You know gnarly physicality to it but yet. Also there's like this implied you know tactical nature to the game as well. 30:35.38 Johnny Yeah I mean I think that there's probably just having a leadership capability in general like if you're naturally somebody who tends to get in front of people and try to lead them I think that you would probably fall into that role in general and you'd probably be able to fit into certain roles on ah on a field or on a court. More nationally than others. 30:56.72 Josh I yeah I think like from like a sociology perspective. Anytime you get a group of people together whether it's in some kind of organized structure like a team or if it's just you know a group of people hanging out there will kind of always be a ah. Natural tendency to identify someone who is the leader of the group. So even if there's a team sport that doesn't have an identified like you know captain or or leadership type position. Um I think anytime you put people in the same space to to do something together. Um, someone will step to the plate and be that kind of ah Captain figure. Um, and so you know I think about all tabletop groups that I've been in right? Gm aside even in like gmless games. There's oftentimes a person who. 31:42.57 Johnny Or. 31:50.11 Josh Um, takes the initiative to say Okay well we need to make a decision. Let's do this thing or hey we want to do X Y and Z and you know let's call some shots just so that way like you know we're all on the same page. Um, and I think that just happens Naturally, anytime you put people in the same place. 32:08.70 sidekqpodcast Okay I think Johnny alluded to this earlier but is there more storytelling in sports than what appears on the surface whether that is you know like you know oh the the narrative of the team making their comeback or is it like you know the drama. That would make like ah you know like a popular streaming service like like oh like Ted Lasso or something like that you know where it's like the lives of these ah these characters or these ah the the sports management staff or whatever. 32:38.78 Johnny Um I don't know what you're talking about. There's never been a good sports movie ever I don't know I've never heard of the movie Rudy or hoosiers or anything like that. No I mean obviously there's there's plenty of like just great storytelling naturally in sports without the over dramatization of hollywood. 32:44.94 sidekqpodcast The same lot. 32:56.50 Johnny Um, you know, just watch any teams championship documentary that comes out after every like after every championship you know Ah, they come out like they edit together just like the points of of conflict of um, rising from the ashes about the 1 player who came back in the middle of the year who was able to you know lead the team to Clinch you know a clutch victory. So yeah, there's there's obviously a huge amount of storytelling in sports and that's why people watch they they wouldn't if it was just watching you know numbers go up on a scoreboard. Then it wouldn't be interesting. It's it's about the people. It's about the characters. It's about Um, yeah, the over you know, getting past conflict. 33:46.10 Travis Yeah I agree I think I think sports even individual sports bring just a level of drama. That's that's unmatched anywhere else. You know team sports when you bring a group of people together and put them task them with overcoming ah a challenge. You know in in every sport is that way. The goal is to win the championship regardless of if you're the worst team in the league or the best team in the league. It's still hard and that's going to be a challenge and there's there are countless storylines throughout a season. You know you have intra team dynamics you have inter inter team dynamics you have the. Pressure to the outside you have you know the way that that media is going to portray certain things versus the realities of it and you know it makes for good Tv it makes for great entertainment. That's why it's one of the you know, greatest bits of entertainment in America right now is. People want to watch that they want to relate to that and they want to be a part of it. You know that's why you have phantoms that are so deep is because they want to be a part of that story and they get to be and when their team wins the championship you bet that they're going to show up for the parade. 34:45.66 Johnny Keep. 34:55.72 Travis Because that's their bit That's their part in the celebration of the victory that the group did so I think it's I think it's really closely related. 34:59.87 Johnny Um, and even outside of like the normal season like it doesn't even have to be going towards a shademanship but like the amount of people that get stoked for hard knocks every year which is just 3 pre-season games and like what like. 35:15.26 Travis Just yep. 35:17.92 Johnny Two and a half weeks three weeks of Preseason practices but you just latch onto the characters that the editors are able to like uplift and tell these amazing stories out of just film that they're able to get from natural like naturally occurring interactions that happen within the building. 35:31.65 Travis If. 35:36.96 Josh Yeah, so out of college I started working in healthcare and I had this lofty ambition to get a work game going where I took you know coworkers from the office to come and play. Ah d and d with me. And in order to convince one of the guys in the office who was like kind of interested. He'd heard of d and d before but didn't really know what it was in order to convince him to come and join this office game I was basically like look you get to make your own Wwe Wwe character and you get this storyline. Do you want to be a hero. Do you want to be a villain like. Like you get to have signature moves and like cool looks and you get this storyline throughout the course of the campaign where you can have character growth and accomplish these things and get revenge on the guy who you know beat you early on and do all this stuff and he was like. 36:32.67 Johnny Like. 36:32.78 Josh Oh well when you put it like that that sounds super cool I'm so into it and yeah I convinced a dude to play d and d because he could make a wwe wwe character and lo and behold. Ah he made a rogue and didn't actually do any of the Wwe wwe stuff but he got the idea. 36:45.83 Johnny Um. 36:48.51 Josh From understanding. You know the the powerful narratives in sports and seeing how that could tie into a tabletop game and and that's what got him excited about it. But. 36:56.57 sidekqpodcast Yeah I know for my home game which that I was running for my workmates and my wife as well. They didn't get a chance to explore it. But yeah in the in the circ or like the fighting pits of the belly of the ship of the cadence. Um, I eventually came up with this idea of a WW style thing like oh it used to be like a blood sport thing and people just beat each other up and then I was like oh someone from like you know like a failed playwright or something like that came down there and was like you know if we just like invented a story and gave you flashy costumes and came up with this. Plot in this Drama. You would actually bring in more business and more people willing to like buy in and stuff and so then I had this whole sideplot brewing idea of like oh yeah, if you win and watched a show. It'd be like a wwe W match with like. 37:38.15 Johnny Are. 37:45.23 sidekqpodcast Goliaths and like lucidor costumes and whatever else and they're just like suplexing in Clothesline and cage matches and whatever else. 37:51.71 Johnny Um, and that's all W W and professional wrestling is just like enhanced storytelling within sports. Yeah. 38:00.87 Josh Yeah, it's extremely physical acting. 38:00.95 sidekqpodcast Um. 38:05.46 sidekqpodcast Yeah, well, what wasn't um, well correct me if I'm wrong josha but wasn't ah wasn't the dwayne the rock johnson I know he played football in Florida before he made his way to the WWE right 38:16.35 Johnny So. 38:18.15 Travis Yeah Twitter miami. 38:18.30 Josh That sounds right? yeah. 38:19.39 sidekqpodcast Yeah I couldn't remember if it was like the Florida gators or if he was a seminole or or which one it was oh the hurricanes. Sorry yeah, okay so he would say you would. 38:21.59 Johnny Yeah, it was hurricanes it was Miami and then brock lesner played where I forget where brock lesner he played for the vikings for like a Preseason or something and then there's another guy I think. 38:26.10 Josh Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 38:31.35 Travis User 0 38:38.81 sidekqpodcast Um, moon. 38:41.57 Johnny Titus Johnson Titus something he's a former floridaator I'm sure there there are tons of ah former football players that are in the movie. 38:43.87 sidekqpodcast Oh. 38:47.80 Josh Um, yeah, ah Brock Lesner Google Google says that Brock Lesner went to the university of minnesota. 38:55.16 sidekqpodcast A. 38:55.67 Johnny Okay, yeah, made sense. He ended up as a viking. Yeah. 38:56.17 Travis To make sense. 39:02.22 Josh Yeah I mean at the very least at my high school I know that a lot of the guys on the football team were wrestling in the offseason and then they were encouraged to do that because one you still get to you know, compete in some in some way and 2 your learning skills that are kind of you know? ah. 39:07.50 Johnny I have. 39:19.95 Josh Compatible to the types of things you're doing in football. Um, and I I had friends in in high school who um, you know, okay like I did football and then I did wrestling and actually I prefer wrestling more or folks who were in wrestling and then someone said hey you should consider playing football and they did and they made the switch in high school. Ah, because the the 2 have similar skill sets but 1 of them. You know like just scratches that itch a little bit differently for them. 39:43.12 Johnny Now if you had somebody that does both and then got them into drama class. That's how you build a WW wrestler 39:48.70 Travis Wow Wow! The perfect build. 39:51.18 sidekqpodcast Mm sorry Joshua started telling explaining the story and I just imagined a football player getting to gatorade cans just like stone cold Steve Austin slamming in the together and drinking them and. 39:52.76 Josh It's true. 40:05.28 sidekqpodcast And the somewhat ref is yelling at someone because they're coming in from the sidelines with a chair to smack someone down. It's like oh yeah, football wrestling. Yeah, they go together and kind of on that theme sort of kind of with Ww before the advent of a game like blood bowl. Did you ever try to simulate sports in a fantasy tabletop game. 40:26.73 Johnny Okay. 40:31.62 Travis And I never did you know I'll admit I'll be the the first to admit that but I did play so my my business partner Peter was ah he's our forever gm and Peter created a game that was an offshoot of soccer and hockey that was played on hoverboards and. created all of the created all of the mechanics of it. We were playing star wars what is now called saga edition back in the day but we were wizard of the coast d twenty you know it was really a 3.5 off shoot but he created this all of these rules and how you could go and play this game and so it was really interesting to. To see sports depicted in that way. We also did a sort of a pod racing thing. You know all of those you would argue that that's definitely sports too. It's interesting when you try to play that in these systems because it's such a micro event in the in comparison to. How you play big politics and and larger scale games within within tabletop games. But but it was fun. It was interesting and it definitely was a change up. 41:43.18 Josh Yeah, that same guy from my ah old office game um was a big baseball fan and so ah, one of the things that um, once once we started um, kind of getting getting into. Um. 42:00.22 Josh Talking about tabletop gaming. He ah was like hey I feel like you could make a baseball tabletop role-playing game because how like the numbers all kind of just like flow together particularly you know he wanted to like simulate seasons to come up with a game where you could like manage like a team. Um, and so we started theory crafting. We never actually like did it but it was going to be d 100 based and play a little bit like the the way the cortex system plays but for teams and games as opposed to you know, individual characters. Um. 42:23.73 Johnny That person. 42:36.50 Josh But yeah, we we were basically going to just like steal. You know like ah the Mlb the show like stat ratings for players and then just kind of shuffle in ah, whatever we could um theory crafting never actually did anything with it. But um I have. 42:46.33 Johnny And. 42:53.13 Josh Like a half page of notes somewhere for how to play baseball as a tabletop game. 42:55.91 Johnny Yeah I know that dimension 20 in their fantasy high season. They did something that was like very similar to football. But I don't even think that they actually made it like part of the game. They just had like I think um Lou Wilson's character rolled a natural 20 and then just like he got kicked off the team or something. Which was like I think a great like it was a great moment early on in that in that first season. Um, as far as me playing something I've never put it into a game I think within the fantasy like world. It's hard to like it's hard to relate something. It'd be like such a a side like session. 43:33.17 sidekqpodcast A. 43:35.32 Johnny I think would really only end up working if you have like a really really regular like weekly game where you get to take a break It's kind of like a tournament kind of arc where you get to go through and like start you know, try to beat to get the champion. Um I will. However I'm planning on just with you know. Ah, million other things going on I think I told Travis about it already a little bit last earlier this year. Um I still plan on wanting to do a football ttrpg in like the realm of um c side ne lights or Friday night lights. Um I think it would be awesome to be able to kind of build up like the. 44:06.52 sidekqpodcast Feelings. 44:09.75 Johnny The drama of the interpersonal relationships and having to balance school life and and football life and and then personal life and just really kind of building out. Um the archetypes of characters and I think that'd be really fun I it's it's on my. To do list at some point. Um and I have some some cool people involved with it. But Tmtmtm yeah. 44:32.24 sidekqpodcast Okay, yeah. 44:34.81 Josh Yeah, that's that's a neat concept I'll be excited to see it when it comes out it just occurred to me I did once play bocce ball in a d and d session. This was a weekly game and basically it was roll a d 20 and then roll another d twenty and whoever gets closest to the first d twenty. 44:52.40 Johnny I Love that. 44:54.55 Josh A result gets it. Um, but yeah, yeah, we we had like a local boty tournament at the the neighborhood Tavern and our team lost for the record. 45:04.93 sidekqpodcast Yeah I was ah just thinking about oh I had it and then I you have that thought and then it's in there and then it disappears and okay now I think I've it's come back. The only similar thing I've tried. Back when I did my old podcast blank tape and my buddy Anson and I are not sports people but we were like you know what? you know? fantasy football is the thing that people do what we should try and do is fantasy football but we're gonna put a spin on it. We're gonna make it so that. Your football team is represented by Marvel and dc superheroes and so then what we did is we did a draft and then what we did you know so we picked our regular players and then on the episode of the show. We did the actual superhero draft and so then we each. Got to pick different superheroes so we had wild different teams with like a mixture of Marvel and Dc characters which was a fun season and I think I did end up winning which was which was cool but it was like barely barely I won but it was and then we also had plans eventually we were gonna do. 46:00.97 Johnny So. 46:07.71 sidekqpodcast Um, if the show had kept going. We were going to do a fantasy baseball draft but we were going to do the twist we were Goingnna make it so that you had to pick Marvel and dc super villains to be on your baseball team and so I knew for me I was like ooh I need to get bull'seye as my pitcher. 46:20.72 Johnny And. 46:24.77 sidekqpodcast Like that's he's gonna be my pitcher because he's deadly accurate and so every pitch would be a strike basically would be like the meta narrative that we that I would have invented in that situation. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. 46:33.47 Johnny Get daredal is your umpire. You never get a missed call. 46:40.14 sidekqpodcast I did have daredevil as a quarterback on one of my football teams that was was pretty good. Yeah, all right and keeping on with the questions all right more more sports and and searching into your sports memory recesses who in your opinion. 46:42.00 Johnny Oh wow. 46:58.87 sidekqpodcast Is one of the greatest athletes in history alive or dead and why. 47:06.51 Johnny That's always the hardest question to answer like old heads will say Jim Thorpe who is like absolutely dominant in his era. But if you had Jim Thorpep on today's football field. It's a different like story I actually saw a very funny tweet and and. 47:10.32 sidekqpodcast E. 47:17.83 sidekqpodcast E. 47:23.52 Johnny Stay with me here. It says I don't care what anyone says Jerry Rice could not make it in today's Nfl he is like with the with the talent the skill level the athleticism Jerry Rice would just not be able to I mean he's sixty years old 47:41.53 Travis That their. 47:42.72 Johnny And just like the last line is like oh yeah, yeah, okay um I think let's back to the question I think it's hard. It's obviously hard to say I mean I think Bo Jackson is the platonic answer one of the greatest athletes of all time multiple you know sports. 47:43.14 Josh Yeah, yeah, yeah. 47:44.24 sidekqpodcast Facebook and thank you. 47:52.90 Josh Um. 48:00.10 Johnny Was able to be at a caliber that not many people are able to make but I think if you if you don't respect what shohe otani is doing right now then you're living under a rock because he is. You know it's only half the season but he is doing something that nope. That does not compare to any sport like nobody but nobody has ever played at like an all-star level both as a quarterback and as a safety you know like the closest thing like maybe Deon Sanders like but he wasn't playing necessarily the highest level possible when he was when he when he wasn't just playing corner and like returner. Um, so yeah, it's shohe otani I think you know say what you will about baseball players being athletes I still think it's incredibly hard with what they're doing um and I think he is more dominant right now than most people have than the most greatest players have ever been and. 48:58.46 Josh I Yeah I mean I fully agree with you about about Shohe Otani Um, here's the reason that I actually care about what's happening in baseball right now for the record. Um like I normally I Just don't follow it. 49:00.70 sidekqpodcast But. 49:03.10 Johnny Um. 49:14.31 Josh But yeah, you know I saw something at the start of the year and I was like oh let me go just like take a quick look and see what's up and you make a great point. Ah, you know when it comes to like greatest of all time arguments. Um, you know I just always I go back to. You're Michael Jordan versus you know your your lebron James I think Kobe Bryant deserves a mention in there. Um, but ah yeah, aside from time but specifically basketball players I have a hard time staking any claims. Um, ah but I will say that I have a lot of respect for um, ah I have a lot of respect for Emmett Smith as a football player. Um I feel like he. 50:04.19 Johnny You. 50:11.00 Josh In a lot of ways I have to be careful with my words here because Travis was on the same team. Ah I think he did something that was really impressive. 50:19.90 sidekqpodcast Um. 50:28.74 Josh Ah, for a running back to in a lot of ways carry the scoring for the cowboys offense for a couple of years there not to say that there weren't other contributors on the teams but he's the guy who I think really? um, ah. 50:45.36 Johnny I. 50:48.61 Josh He was perhaps the playmaker for a few years there um is is that a fair assessment Travis feel free to correct me. 50:51.95 Travis I think that's fair, you know I think you know when you start to talk about a very running back. You should also talk about the offensive line that was there at the time but no, no, no, no, no, not me the offs a line that was there with Emmet. 50:53.65 Johnny People. 51:00.51 Josh Obviously I sin my previous statement Travis Frederick Best Football player of all time. 51:02.60 sidekqpodcast Um, kitty. 51:05.36 sidekqpodcast Yeah. 51:11.57 Travis But yes, no I know I agree really really dynamic and you know there's a reason that he holds records still today and really impressive I think for me one of the maybe it's a product of you know when I grew up and in the spectacle around it. But. Watching Michael Phelps do what he did over the course of you know several several years really was impressive I mean you talk about the amount of success that he was able to achieve over that time you know historically was even you know, outrageously good. So I think. Definitely worth mentioning in the conversation. Yeah. 51:52.99 sidekqpodcast Yeah, like I said you know I'm the total neophyte in this audience so you know I'm just trying to think of like other ah big ones that I'm sure people would love for me to shout out I mean we're here in Dallas and Texas and so. I'm sure Nolan Ryan's got to get a a shout out. Not not only just for the fact that he punched a dude on the on the mound and you know everyone loves him for that and then you know I my personal only more I guess my first. 52:09.65 Johnny So. 52:22.99 sidekqpodcast Sports team that I remember ever gravitating towards was the Houston Astros and I know say what you will about any you know scandals and you know whether they deserve championships or not but I still love my Houston astros and I remember 1 of the first players I ever liked was like Jeff Bagwell because oh he was like the first basement and he he was he was cool 52:37.45 Johnny So great team. 52:42.20 sidekqpodcast Um, and I still love the astros I mean the uniforms the colors it's all it's all great and it's like my my piece of nostalgia for home. Um, yeah I mean I'm sure there's a lot of great athletes out there. Of course you know, ah across the history across all sports and divisions and areas of play. And for some reason my mind just wants to say you know I also think Andre the giant would have been ah, a cool dude to get to know in person you know, just you know you know figuratively and literally larger than life and just seemed like a good dude now. 53:15.11 Johnny Yeah, can't disagree with you there. 53:19.90 sidekqpodcast All right? and then let's see to follow up the previous question. What kind of D and D or ttrpg character would the person that you chose be in a game and why So if you had to gamify the the person that you just named. 53:27.93 Johnny I. 53:37.38 sidekqpodcast What kind of d and DTTRpg character do you think they would best exemplify and why. 53:44.28 Johnny I mean I think the most versatility get on the field is like from or for ah you know that you get from a character is probably like ah a battlema fighter or something I think Bo Jackson probably fits well is that? Um, but if you want to like think about shohe probably. 53:54.10 sidekqpodcast P think. 54:02.98 Johnny I mean what can you do like with a can you make a level twenty character in 2 different classes like that's like that's basically what he's doing for anybody who like doesn't know about Shoheo Tani and only knows d and d like imagine making like 2 high level characters but like combining them into one like that's basically what he's doing. 54:06.24 sidekqpodcast People. 54:25.14 Josh Yeah that's that's a fair point. Um I think for Emmett Smith I would just have to go with rogue ah because talk about slipperiness one. And you just get a lot of movement speed as a rogue. Um, but maybe like an arcane trickster rogue I feel like he had some moves. 54:47.40 sidekqpodcast Um, she. 54:48.88 Johnny Arcane tricks to rogue with like 18 strengths were yeah. 54:49.89 Travis Yeah, yeah. 54:51.78 Josh Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, had a huge strength but going back to my previous point about strength and dexterity. You kind of separate them. But I feel like I feel like they go so well together in in skill positions. 55:08.47 Travis You know I think yeah, just to be different I will classify Michael Phellipps as a barbarian and some sort of you know, archetype off of that. But I feel like there's ah you know some level of focus that goes into that that you know you could see before. Before a race the focus that he put himself into and it's almost like a rage not necessarily a fit of uncontrollable rage that you may you know automatically think of when you think of rage but really some sort of hyperfocused rage where you know that's all that mattered at that time. Um. 55:25.62 Johnny So. 55:40.80 Johnny Um. 55:43.14 Travis And his ability to channel that and compete at the level that he did for those periods of time like I think it just I think you could relate that. 55:50.17 sidekqpodcast Oh and then perfectly he would go with the mercer barbarian subclass of the the duck totem like water off the back and stuff like that invented for for John hater. Yeah, so that was those cool all right? okay. 55:59.16 Travis Um, yeah, that's it they go. 56:00.20 Johnny Um, oh that's right? yeah. 56:09.44 sidekqpodcast Um, all right? So starting to get into some ah I got I had 4 last questions that I had thought up and you know was trying to get into some meaty stuff to really get into this intersection between sports athletics and d and d so do you think there's still is a culture quote unquote war or stigma between the arts and sports. Why or why? not. 56:30.99 Johnny Um I don't know if it's a war I don't know if it like I'm I'm sure at times that was something that was a little bit more um vitriolic between between the 2 like jock versus nerd type thing but it's definitely. 56:48.95 Johnny Been There's been work to break it down. That's definitely something that like I have been trying to like do in a way in my own little way. Um, it's actually kind of I don't know when is this podcast planning on going out like what's the like kind of rough date of like this release right. 57:05.72 sidekqpodcast That's a great question I mean I'll try and probably get this edited as soon as I can and then maybe put it up on Patreon maybe it'll sit there for about a month or so and then I'll probably throw it on the regular feed and then tell people see this is the great stuff. You're missing by. Not. 57:08.69 Johnny And. 57:22.60 sidekqpodcast Getting early access on Patreon or you're just going to play the long game and just wait for it to show up there anyway. 57:22.42 Johnny Um, I only I only ask because I I think in the very near future like within a week or so I'm planning on starting a little bit of like ah a Tiktok like playlist type thing. Where I um I am teaching in alternating episodes and relating it within the terms that they understand sports to tt rpg nerds and ttrpgttrpg to like sports nerds jocks like those those people so and I'm calling it athletics check and I'm going like week but you know. 57:57.58 sidekqpodcast An hour. 58:00.32 Johnny Hopefully like every other day or so release a new episode where I'm making those this is a kind of announcement I haven't talked about this with anybody um and where I'm relating them in like their own terms that teaching you know sports fans like all the D and D classes I'm teaching teach rpgs who know nothing about sports like all the football class all the football positions. 58:06.92 Travis Awesome. 58:19.84 Johnny And trying to relate them like okay what sports player would be. You know this class and so yeah, that's something that I'm I'm trying to in my own little way do to break down the Jock versus Nerd binary. 58:32.17 sidekqpodcast I like it. 58:34.56 Travis Well. 58:36.30 Josh You you just got my follow on Tiktok. Um I'm really glad you mentioned the jock versus Nerd Dichotomy because my first thought when when Kurt asked the question was well in. 58:36.21 Johnny Nice. Ah. 58:50.83 Josh I think of that dichotomy as being something tied to school um ah because in particular at at high school college levels. You typically have 2 programs that are competing for you know, funding and so that's I think where if we trace like the origin back. That's probably where a lot of. 58:50.88 Johnny I. 59:09.33 Josh Um, that kind of divide in terms of ideologies comes from is you have 2 kind of competing values that are both going for the same resources and I just think historically right? we. 59:27.32 Josh Let let me flex a degree here really quickly. You go back to to like you know Greek culture particularly like philosophy. Um, they they talked about these ah warrior Kings or the the philosophical you know term that they would call would would be philosopher Kings right? people who ruled both. Ah, with like military strength as the kings but also had great intellectual strength. Um as the philosophers and so like historically I don't think the 2 have really um, been in opposition to one another until we introduce the capitalist system that makes us compete with one another for money. Um, so all that to say I don't think there's anything um that really truly like sets us at odds there except for competing for for resources. So I think a lot of things that we learn in school are hard to unlearn a lot of things that we learn growing up are hard to unlearn and so. Some of those ideas may have stuck around but I think that the two really go hand in hand together to create well-rounded people and a well-rounded society and so I am all in on any. Efforts and activities to try to countermand that kind of messaging that people may still have. 01:00:48.71 Travis I I think the great uniter is high school musical I think you know when we were kids. It's funny how this turns around my kids are now in high school musical but you know that was that was the first time like there was ah, an active movement to you know to to unite those things and and cross those past. 01:00:52.36 Johnny Um, yeah. 01:01:00.22 Johnny Are. 01:01:08.38 Travis I agree a lot with Josh and and and what you say there about competing for resources. Um, you know the the thing that I you know would add to that is I think the greatest resource in all of our lives is time and time is is what I think you're competing for more than anything. To be great at anything you have to invest your time and energy into it and so you find people that that want to be good at spores or their coach wants them to be good and so they say hey you know when you have free time outside of school. You need to be lifting or you need to be practicing. You need to be doing these other things. And it's the same thing with the arts. You know you need to be pricing. You need to be stinging or you need to you know, go do what? what that is because you're only going to get better with practice There are very few people in life that can just naturally do anything without the practice and so when you're competing for time. In in trying to decide what you want to do it makes it really difficult for people to be well-rounded and I think that's why you don't find um as many people that are that that are great at both because it just takes a lot of time and effort to do it. Um, and and when you choose to do those things you sacrifice something else and so you. There's there's always that and and so I don't I I agree and I think that it is made There's been a lot of moves made in the right direction and things like what Johnny are doing is really helpful in helping to break down some of those barriers. But. 01:02:27.56 Johnny Um. 01:02:36.60 Travis I think talking about it in general is is the best way to break down the bears and I feel like that's something that is true in a lot of different cases but you know things like even this you know the show that we're doing tonight you know having a conversation about it like those things are bring up good conversations between other people. When you have 2 guys on a football team that you would have never expected both enjoy anime or both enjoy you know all of a sudden they're uniting over it where they weren't talking about it before and I think you know in what I get to do now I get to see a lot of statistics I got to see a lot of market research and the the numbers are pretty wild. 01:03:06.99 Johnny Are. 01:03:13.79 Travis And nobody talks about it. You know you don't hear about it in the public about people that are playing tabletop role-playing games or people that are doing certain things and it's because for some reason they feel like they shouldn't be talking about it or can't talk about it. But once they have somebody that they relate to that does it or makes it more acceptable or reduces a stigma. Um, then you start to talk about it and you can really realize the power of of any of that whether that's being creative whether that's you know, enjoying sports as a creative whether that's you know, crossing those boundaries in different ways as well. 01:03:47.84 sidekqpodcast Okay, should we introduce more art into the sports world or should we be introducing more sport or sorry, let me start that again because I had it had it phrased Okay, should we introduce more art into this book. 01:03:54.60 Johnny And. 01:04:06.50 sidekqpodcast I swear I haven't had that much beer. All right? should we introduce more art into the sports world or should more sports be introduced into the Arts world at the Junior high high school level at college should we be doing that continuously through the education process. 01:04:25.71 Johnny I mean the more you intertine the 2 I think the better off you are um, it's tough to say like I think high schools are it's very disparate across the country like with how much funding they get in general and you know only with funding can you actually have them like you know. Actually be doing things. Um, so yeah I remember when there was when I was in a high school we we had this new sports facility like ah it was a 3 story building I had classrooms in it. But also I had like a football office football weight room a locker room like all these different things. And for the opening of it. The football team went out there with like the choir and then ended up like singing a song or something and it's just it's so interesting I like yeah, it's it's a little thing. Um, but you know the more the more you can get those 2 groups interact with each other the better you are um I don't know how you know. How necessarily? you'd be able to get like sports into the arts. Um in in the high school levels and in college I think it's interesting because I think the really only way that it like overlaps is through like probably band or at least that's like the most visible way of interacting. Um, you know. During in between plays at at halftime and you know during timeouts you have the band performing but outside of that there's not really a whole lot. Um, that interacts between the 2 within college because I think you know high school. So so much smaller of a community a college community. So big. 01:05:59.91 Johnny It's hard to be able to get a whole lot of communication between the two. So I don't know what you know what way to really have those 2 those 2 interact in college like. 01:06:07.81 sidekqpodcast You said that and that reminded me of like oh yeah, actually in my college days at Angelo State I was in the basketball pet band. So even though I'm the mediocre Bass guitar player I signed up and was able to play Bass guitar and so we had our little section of the bleachers in the Stevens arena. 01:06:19.93 Josh 01:06:21.28 Johnny And. 01:06:27.49 sidekqpodcast And so I'd be there right next to all the percussions section down at the front and then we've got all the woodwinds in the brass as they start trailing up and up and up in our section and so yeah, like during the men's and the women's basketball games. We'd be playing little stingers or like little set pieces and stuff like that and yeah during that time. Yeah I did care more about. Ah. 01:06:43.80 Johnny That's awesome. Yeah. Okay. 01:06:46.94 sidekqpodcast Ah, the basketball games and stuff like that and we got really into like razzing the other team. We jingle the keys and be like start the bus start the bus and you know sometimes we had to be like okay, let's rain it back. We're getting a little. We're getting a little too rowdy and stuff like that. But. 01:06:53.86 Johnny So. 01:07:02.36 sidekqpodcast Yeah, no, that's a great example that reminded me of like oh yeah, being able to be in the pet pan got me to care more about basketball at least for a time in my life. 01:07:13.90 Josh Yeah, and and I think you know the question is you know? should we integrate the 2 more and I I feel like the answer is yes and the new question becomes how do we do that and I don't have a great answer for that question. Um, ah but i. You know I do think as as has already been pointed out right? You think about band you think about cheer and dance as as forms of arts. Um I mean I even think about you know, like there's people who were you know doing sound mixing and putting together the playlists that play during athletics games. You know. Um, the the videographers. The folks who are putting together. Ah tape you know I I have studied film. Ah for for some time in school and so I think of that as an art form and and think of it more broadly as being part of the arts and so there's certainly a lot of ways in which. The 2 worlds do already cross over. Um and so I think the question ah is how can we do that more and that's the the challenging thing because we have to actually think outside of our own experiences and say hey what can we do to make this better. Right? to to take the way that things are and improve them in a way that hasn't been done before. 01:08:30.63 Travis Yeah I think a lot of it comes down to kindness and understanding right? It's it's about having those conversations and it's difficult to do especially at the college level. You know you're busy. Everyone's focused on the things that they need to especially in in athletics. You know. 01:08:36.99 Johnny I. 01:08:50.19 Travis You have a job and your job is to do those things but to take a moment and slow down once a week and and just understand what somebody else does in the building that helps you whether that's the video team or it's the marketing team that's putting together creative to go. That's the sound mixer. It's all of those like it to take a minute to understand. 01:08:54.34 Johnny Um. 01:09:10.15 Travis What they do and that their job is difficult too. It's it's different. Everyone has a job and for the production that is a football game or you know a sports game. Um, there are so many different things that go into it and there. It's really easy to look past that and only focus on your job. But when you take a step back and look at the broader Picture. There's so much that goes into it and I think that being able to do that at a at a younger level would be even be Better. You know to understand you know take a moment for the football team to go Visit. You know. The the band and understand how they work together as a team. What's different about the teamwork in a band versus you know on the field and and how can you take the best things from one world and translate them into a different world to be more successful in what you're trying to do. 01:10:02.33 sidekqpodcast Yeah, my son is 2 and so I know he likes to do a lot of Youtube you know watching and interacting with things and moving and running around and so that just had me think of like. 01:10:05.43 Johnny Ah. 01:10:14.72 sidekqpodcast You know, remembering an elementary school music classes. A lot of like you're you're playing music you're playing simple instruments but you're also moving around the classroom and so you're doing these real kinetic kinesiology type of thingmabobs while you're getting involved and so what Travis was saying is like yeah that'd be really. That would have been cool for me in junior high or high school if that had been something like where hey the basketball team is gonna sit in on a choir practice because they're gonna learn how you guys work in harmony with supporting each other when it comes to different parts of the music or you know maybe the band sits in on. Um. Like ah like a swimming match and they're watching them like how do they move through the water and so what are the ways that you can incorporate that in your playing I remember one I do remember in oh the crossover episode. Yeah. 01:11:01.58 Johnny It feels very much like an either an episode of Ted Lasso or of glee and I can't tell which ah yeah. 01:11:03.14 Travis I Yeah yeah for sure. Maybe it's the crossover. He never did. 01:11:11.62 sidekqpodcast I remember in college in my music undergraduate classes for conducting. We did have to go to the university pool and so to learn the feel of how your arms should move when you're conducting so you have the resistance of the water I remember that was you know something that we physically had to do that kind of got us out of our normal. Music building and brought us to another part of campus. So yeah I think yeah, we should do that across the board. You know, incorporate the 2 this more work and play play and work sort of give and take all right and then let's see okay getting to my last 2 questions that I have that I have thought of let's see. Now being so involved in the ttrpg hobby with your positions of leadership. How have your views or perceptions change concerning the sports industry. 01:12:01.78 Johnny Um, that everybody needs a hobby everybody needs a hobby because ah it's just I'm like I said I'm a very big advocate of being able to have that work-life balance and just being able to as we all said escape from your job. You know? and even as I high school or college athlete. It's very much a job at that point because you're spending so much of your life doing it. Um, you need to have something to be able to get your mind off of it so you know I think all my teammates have that have had that you know whether it's video games reading you know, just anything that you can keep to yourself even. Um I think there are obviously examples of like the greats who it's like that's their whole life like Bill Belichick I don't think Bill Belichick has a hobby like I think I'd I'd be surprised if any head coach in the Nfl has hobby. That's why they got there. But I think for 99% of the population. You need to be able to. 01:12:48.70 sidekqpodcast Um, if if. 01:12:57.72 Johnny Just escape from it for a little bit. 01:13:04.70 Josh Yeah I think one of the things that I better appreciate um, especially in in recent years One of the the. 01:13:17.11 Josh Great privileges but also the great challenges of being in any kind of public eye is the the pressure that comes with it and I think having not competed on quite the same level as as these guys have um. I have a newfound respect for the folks who can show up and perform under pressure day in and day out because there's so many eyes on you and I'm thinking particularly in in the room of you know like influencing and and content creation here but comparing this back to sports I think there. Certainly a lot of eyes on you and a lot of expectations that are placed on you that you maybe necessarily don't place on yourself. Um, you know you're trying to just show up and get the job done and people are expecting this thing of you or that thing of you or this other thing of you. Um, and just because they expect those things of you if you don't. Do them. They might feel you know disappointed and feel let down because you didn't do the thing that you didn't actually know you were signed up to do in the first place. Um, and so I I have a new found respect for um I think the weight that. You carry in the public eye ah from from my time here in the tabletop industry and I don't think it's a bad thing ah by any means to have that pressure and and to have you know that feeling of all eyes on you. Um I said earlier I feel like it's a responsibility and a privilege. 01:14:38.59 Johnny Are. 01:14:51.25 Johnny Are. 01:14:51.56 Josh And I mean that but it is definitely something that I look at athletes now who are like cool under pressure and I'm like man you know I've got I've got my my measly you know 10 to 20000 followers on the internet if I had that many eyes live television on me. Live in the stadium on me every single night I think I would lose my cool. 01:15:11.32 Johnny Are. 01:15:12.59 Travis Ah, ah yes yeah I understand I hear what you're saying and I think for me, it's been really interesting to make the transition from sports into tabletop and and really I think it's more the transition from sports to business. And how much translates over and so you know after having been involved in it and learning the ability for leadership skills to move over how teamwork works how goal setting and organization and all of those things that. You know when you think about football and professional athletes. You know you think that they're good at what they do and then they retire and they go away. You know you don't hear about them anymore. They just fade into the dark but a lot most if not all of them go and do something else too. And you know I never thought about what that transition was going to be like and and what skills would translate over and it's it's pretty amazing other than I don't you know push people around you know Josh can attest to that I don't actually push anyone around in the business. Ah you know, ah most other skills have translated over and. It's been It's it's really made me step back and respect other people that have made those transitions and and you know whether they're going into real estate or they go into you know whatever it is um, it's it's a really interesting thing to step back and look at. 01:16:42.66 Johnny Are. 01:16:42.80 Travis Former athletes and how that transition's worked. 01:16:45.90 sidekqpodcast All right? and then the last question that I have prepared and then it's a free for all after this for all I know but with the rise of streaming and esports. What can the major sports leagues and franchises learn from the gaming world. 01:17:08.58 Josh And as the the college sports fan here I'll say something that they have already learned in recent years is if you pay your talent the entire ecosystem does better. Um, and I think that's something that esports figured out pretty early on ah paying. You know, even as young as as high schoolers to to compete at a professional level and so seeing that now take place in in the in the and ncla for athletes to be able to be paid for the use of their likeness. That's something that I'm excited about as a huge improvement for the sports world. Ah, so change is already happening and it's good in my mind. 01:17:49.30 Johnny So I'm still over here trying to think of 1 01:17:50.89 Travis I Think yeah I know I think it'll be really interesting to see how how esports grows and and and streaming in comparison to sports. You know there's a I think there still is a pretty large dichotomy between. 01:17:51.50 sidekqpodcast 50 01:18:10.21 Travis Scripted streaming whether that's you know, recorded shows or you know planned episodes and sports and part of that comes with the ability to write the script and the chaos and unpredictability that is sports. Um, and you may relate reality Tv to the chaos and unpredictability of of major sports but that's what makes them different and different is good. In this case, you know they both are great and there's a reason for both of them. So. 01:18:45.14 Travis Introducing you know and sharing Concepts There may not necessarily be the best you know? maybe maybe what they learn here is that it's important that they embrace what they're good at and and embrace the way that the the fan base enjoys it. You know that's ah. 01:19:03.69 Johnny So. 01:19:04.17 Travis It'll be interesting to see how it how continues to grow and if those things come close together stay the same work it further per. 01:19:11.38 Johnny It is funny the way that um, the question is word and and we have a little list of the questions here. Ah the the way the sports leagues and franchises can learn from the gaming world I think um I think the legislative world would probably like read that in a much different way that phrase. Because it's such like a a thing right now I don't know it's not exactly related to esports. But um, just the sports leagues in gambling right? now is such a topic of conversation. Um, but I mean it. It is interesting because esports has borrowed and has learned from the sports world. The physical sports world so much in how they market their players and how like the events are organized and um advertise and and all these different like um, you know the way that they're able to make it an event. Um. That you know sports has been around for so long as such a major industry and esports is such a new industry that it's easy for esports to be able to learn from that world and learning the opposite direction. You know would be It would be tough to do because it's such. Ah, large thing it's going to move extremely slowly and like Travis said maybe it's a good thing that it doesn't learn from it and and kind of paves the way forward for other things like esports to be able to come relevant and prevalent. Um, but. 01:20:41.38 Johnny I think 1 thing that's very interesting is is when I was in Cleveland I became um, familiar and friendly with some of the um, the 2 k team 2 um basketball Mba 2 k ah affiliate of the Cleveland cavaliers I think I forget what their team name was. But they like they were in a league that competed against all the other team affiliates of and Mba teams and I thought to be so like how interesting would it be like the opposite way if there was like a phase clan basketball team or like 100 thieves football team. It'd be so interesting and I don't even know what that would look like but. Yeah I just think it's it's wild to think about that kind of idea because I think that 1 thing that Nfl teams probably or sports leagues and teams probably could learn from the from the esports teams and leagues is branding I think that they do such a good job of doing collaborations and really like fashion forwards. Like streetware-essque branding that I think um, you know with with the amount of money there is behind having an Nfl or Mlb or Nba like license behind your brand. Um there's obviously a ton of like weight that carries and a ton of like money that's behind that. But it also leads them to be a little bit less um like liberal with that with that licensing and with that branding that I think you know if you're collaborating with 100 thieves or you're designing a jacket or something like that is just I think specifically like fashion stuff. But um. 01:22:16.49 Johnny You're probably a little bit less conservative with what you can do with that with that logo on your shirt and. 01:22:21.96 sidekqpodcast I know previous guests of the show. Both of them father Blake Britton and Bobby Angel together they did a Youtube miniseries called god and gaming and so one of the early things I remember in the series of episodes is father blake mentions that I think in. Philadelphia or Pittsburgh they're supposed to be building like this whole esports arena complex. That's like right there in the heart of the city and the idea is that it's like supposed to be like 1 of the biggest esports gaming centers. That's gonna host like all these big tournaments and stuff like that which just seems like you know. Interesting or different and so you know as far as I can think or relate with tt rpgs I know I've had the opportunity to only attend 1 live show for critical role and that was when they did the darrington brigade show down in Austin because it was easy enough for me to commute there. But you know with them and other. Streaming shows being able to do these live events would be interesting to see in a future where it's like critical role plays the big esports arena then like sells it out or something like that because everyone wants to come and watch. You know a bunch of nerds play d and d around a table in the big arena. You know they've sort of started making those ways where they like have limited streaming events at like certain Amc or Cinemark locations so like is that gonna be the next step where oh these big streaming shows demiplane is gonna beat them to the punch and be like okay the esports arena. 01:23:51.71 sidekqpodcast We're Goingnna do a live show there or something like that and what Johnny Stanton be 1 of the players. 01:23:56.12 Johnny And. 01:23:56.86 Josh Yeah,, that's an in that's an interesting idea. Um, you know we've already seen ah tabletop shows doing live events like you've said critical role is a great example. Um, I know the macelroys have done so some touring shows. Um I think ah nadpod I'm trying to think if ah I don't actually know if dimension 20 has done their own thing outside of conventions and if they are I could be forgetting. It. 01:24:13.17 Johnny Ad Pod dimension 20 okay. 01:24:28.35 sidekqpodcast You are. 01:24:29.46 Josh Ah, but I'm thinking of dungeons and daddies I'm trying to think if they've done ah live stuff. Yeah, yeah. 01:24:31.30 Johnny Um, they just did there first. They just did a live show in Austin and there they just announced the tour. Yeah. 01:24:33.40 sidekqpodcast And I just remembered something earlier but I'll let you continue and then I'll bring back my pin. 01:24:39.93 Johnny I. 01:24:40.71 Josh Yeah, so just just saying this is already like something that we're starting to see outside of conventions with conventions. It makes sense. You know with things like Acquisitions Inc and then all of all of the ah you know. 01:24:46.44 Johnny And. 01:24:54.21 Josh Ah, great opportunities since casts are already at a convention or since folks from the the community influencers industry folks whoever are already at a convention It's a great spot to do a one shot. Um I think there would be frog in my throat. Um I think it would be really interesting to see um the idea of doing a show at events in and tying those together whether it's you know? Um, ah, maybe maybe it's already starting to be done with. Like um, this speedle and grim show for the the new Tv channel ah the ah faster purple worm. Um that that could be the start of it where you're filming something onsite um at live venue. 01:25:31.87 Johnny Um, purple worm. Yeah. 01:25:44.35 Johnny I yeah. 01:25:47.18 Josh Um, that's becoming something to to you know show to an audience later on but the experience is in person first. Um, it's an interesting idea and and I think it it. 01:25:57.81 Johnny Um. 01:26:03.95 Josh The the idea of spectacle and and this live experience. Um is something that I would love to see us get into in the tabletop space I think um, we've got room to grow in that area and and room to you know, maybe pioneer some cool new things. Um, ah, but I think there are also some ah practical challenges that we'll have to navigate taking something that is you know primarily a pen and paper game and making it um, very engaging and appealing. Um, ah. In in a live event space for something beyond a 1 shot and and that's where resources like your virtual tabletops like even just physical mininies and terrain you know they do something to to make um it more engaging. But um. I think whoever can figure out how to capture spectacle first in that sense is really going to be able to to do that? Um, well. 01:27:09.30 Johnny Um, I think we can agree and I know it's it's all it's all come across our brains at 1 point or another and it's all I know in my case, it's definitely been brought up to me multiple times that the idea of doing a d and d like tournament. Um. 01:27:24.73 Johnny From people who don't know what D and D is and think that it's like competitive and that you're trying to like beat the other players. Um I think we we can all agree that at least within the the current state of D and D does not work. Yeah. 01:27:35.35 sidekqpodcast E. 01:27:38.70 Travis Yeah, yeah, I I think it's an interesting ask and I really like the idea of live and and specacle like you said John ah Josh it's live music is better than music that's recorded like it's just interesting to be there and see it and be a part of it. And theater is so moving you know when you're there and watching people do it and you know the live shows are are so so much fun to watch because you get to be a part of it. You just as much as the the players are waiting to see how that die you know. Roles. You know if they get that 20 and when they do the cheers from the crowd. Um, and you're doing that with people that are like-minded in and in a similar place I don't think now this could be wrong I don't think there are as nearly as many people that watch a show on a stream that find themselves cheering audibly. Um, as when you're in a live show and you're doing it with all of these other people that are are in a similar situation and you know it's affecting the players on the scene. So I do think that there's something special about that and and it would be really interesting to see you know if that continues to grow and if it takes off. 01:28:54.27 sidekqpodcast Yeah, it would be certainly would be cool to see ah a demiplane show happening at a sold out esportsarena and it's like okay we've got them here and then your you know your fist pumping as you're introducing everyone coming out on the stage and. Getting ready for a show and you know cutting graphics and all this you know, loud thumping music and you know the beers flowing and the popcorns being spilled everywhere and all this stuff I think yeah I could I can see getting into that I don't know if you could sustain it on a. Like ah this is like the season and we're gonna do like games every week at the arena so make sure you buy your season tickets to watch or something like that. 01:29:36.60 sidekqpodcast But I did remember my earlier pin from before which with the mention of dungeons and daddies. They did have a football episode when they had in the first season when they had to get the supper bowl and then what was it? um. 01:29:43.14 Johnny Yeah, yeah. To be a ground hug. Yeah. 01:29:48.81 sidekqpodcast Will Campos's Henry Oak character transformed into an animal and then just flew back and forth across the field to score a bunch of points which is why it would be oh, it's hard to sometimes translate. Sports into a fantasy setting when people can literally just turn into earth elementals and do all these wild and crazy powers that would not obey the normal rules of sports in the real world. 01:30:05.52 Johnny Yeah, um. 01:30:12.71 Johnny Yeah, you have to definitely? Ah, it's hard to it's it's hard to create boundaries which is you know all a huge part of what sports is there's a literal boundary on the field. It's hard to create boundaries when you can literally bend space and time as ah as a wizard. 01:30:22.76 sidekqpodcast Um e. 01:30:29.30 sidekqpodcast Um, yeah. 01:30:30.61 Johnny Yeah. 01:30:34.12 Josh Yeah, Stricts Haven has a rules for for a sport in it as I recall so you know I know that there's stuff out there to do. It is just a challenge of how do you take? ah. 01:30:49.67 Josh Take the competitive spirit and then give rule sets that let you have somewhat fair competition because some classes are going to be better suited to to things than others and and finding a way to balance it. But Also then you know set up the challenge and premise. Well is is one of the great I would say fun things about game design. 01:31:11.29 sidekqpodcast Yeah, aside from just borrowing from ancient rome and being like okay we're going to throw you into the coliseum and now you have to like the stages the platforms are moving and you're having to fight lions and tigers and other gladatorial fighters. Um, or you know either they're you know they're flooding it. So now you're doing ship battles or you know you're doing Roman Chariot horse races or chariot battles or something like that. So you know, maybe there's something to borrow from antiquity there. Perhaps. 01:31:32.40 Johnny Are. 01:31:43.40 Travis Yeah, interesting. 01:31:44.92 sidekqpodcast But yeah, hey, yeah so I mean that's all the questions I had so I don't know if you guys have any other questions that have been generated in our conversation that you want to ask each other or or or whatever you know. This is our time. So whatever, Whatever you want now I guess. 01:32:03.94 Johnny So. 01:32:09.35 Josh I have a single question that I would like to contribute I meant to put it in the document I asked for edit permissions even the other day and then I still didn't sit down and do it. Um i've. And and Travis I'm sure you'll know this because Adam says this probably once a week ah in you know team meetings or on streams for for for us over a demiplane. Ah Adam Bradford will say he believes if everyone played tabletop games. The world will be a lot better place. Ah, which to me rings very similar to ah folks talking about sports building virtue building character I'd be curious to hear your thoughts. Um, as as other folks with experience in both worlds. Do you see parallels there similarities. If you had to say does 1 build more virtue than the other. Ah what What do you think. 01:33:06.23 Johnny I don't know if I can have my children compete like that. Um I think um I think you're absolutely correct and in the idea both Adam that Adam said like his quote of the world. Be better place if if everybody played tt or bg. 01:33:12.21 Travis Vegetable. 01:33:22.13 Johnny Be able to build those like those friendships um be around a table and like and have that experience because ah, that alone is something that not many people get to experience unless you're at like a dinner table is having hours at a table. Um, just talking. To each other and that's basically the whole game. You know every once while you roll a dice but like you get to have so much enjoyment with your favorite people just by talking silly voices like that's just crazy but like you're absolutely this like correct. You know when families get together. Um, you know for like a. Ah, beach day and you're just you're thrown around the frisbee or you're side to place and like beach football. You know there's there is so much camaraderie in that as well. Um, just being able to build bonds in in spending quality time together which goes both ways. So yeah I think you're absolutely correct and in in both statements that like both Dt Rpg and and sports ah just crafting create. Ah you know a world that I'd enjoy living in more than if I didn't get to do that. 01:34:29.93 Travis Yeah, yeah I agree I think the key is not choosing one or the other it's experiencing both because they're so different and they both provide such valuable lessons. You know I find myself very lucky to have. 01:34:36.43 Johnny Um, yeah. 01:34:47.18 Travis Been part of of both of those and in in a high level ah in both places because I agree with what Adam says and I think that the the empathy that you learn and practice by role-playing is something that. Would help anyone in this world. Um, you know, being able to put yourself in somebody else's shoes and try and understand a situation different from your own personal perspective and how would this character who doesn't believe the same things that I believe how would they understand this and that's much like how does my neighbor believe what they believe. 01:35:21.70 Johnny Are. 01:35:25.20 Travis And you know how can I better understand the way that they think so I can interact with them better. You know those are great skills to have and and the same thing goes with sports. There's There's a certain level of sacrifice that goes into it. You know whether that's ah you know I think one of the greatest things about ah. 01:35:42.43 Travis Team Sports is shared Sacrifice. It's the time that you spend together doing the things that no one wants to do and when you find that adversity together you come out stronger together and it's hard to replace that with something that's that's not. Um, in a way that you're you know, put in an adverse situation. Um, and sports are a natural place to find those those adversities you know, certainly in life. There are are far more adversities than just in in sports. But but it's a great way to find you know relatively low impact on your life adversities. Comparatively. But so I think that the ability to try both and and even just dip your toe in the water and understand a little bit whether that's being on the team and not playing just seeing the interactions that are practiced or. Being a manager. That's you know, helping out with equipment or doing the video being being part of the team doesn't necessarily mean that you're the one on the field. It means that you're helping that to to move the goal forward and I think the same thing goes the other way you know getting getting a chance to try it. Regardless of you like it and you play it every week from here until forever or you played a one shot and you thought it was interesting or not and and you're done you at least tried it and you got to experience what that was like. 01:37:11.70 Johnny I I for one am grateful I got to do both. 01:37:13.49 Travis Same. 01:37:17.90 Josh I Feel like they're both very formative experiences just perhaps in different ways. 01:37:20.34 Travis Yeah, absolutely. 01:37:26.80 sidekqpodcast Yeah, no I'm just thinking about this from the perspective of a new dad and you know with a two year old son who I imagine with you know, my wife's very sportcentric side of the family and then my side is very more art centric side kind of a family. Oh you know my sister did sports and stuff like that. Um. 01:37:30.21 Johnny Okay. 01:37:43.73 sidekqpodcast Yeah I know this gives me like a renewed sense of like yeah, he'll learn it both like at the macro and the micro level by being involved in in both and I shouldn't discourage it and even if you know maybe me you know I'm not going to necessarily. 01:37:52.21 Travis Um. 01:37:58.69 sidekqpodcast Strap on um you know like shoulder pads and a football helmet and go you know, try and tackle my boy when he's of age to be doing that kind of stuff you know I do I would want to encourage him I would want to be there in the stands and encourage him and you know teach him those lessons of. 01:38:09.41 Travis Ah. 01:38:15.50 sidekqpodcast And in asking those questions of like well what is it that the coaches are teaching you What is that your teammates are teaching you and then in those times when we're having you know family dinners or family game nights playing D and D together and stuff like that be like okay well what did this character teach you about life. And then like how can you carry that forward then into your real life. So Yeah I think that's I think that's pretty cool. Yeah, and when I was younger I probably would have said like ah sports I don't know not for me I don't I'm not gonna invest in it. It's kind of like how my my dad was with me although my parents Both were very like if you want to do it then. 01:38:44.13 Travis Um, and. 01:38:50.88 sidekqpodcast Let's do it and experience it and try it. Um, you know they never pushed anything on me which I'm grateful for which I suppose I would take with my with my son. Um, but having this conversation and it gives me that courage to be able to say like well if you like a sport. Let's let's try it and you know even if I don't know it. You know I'm willing to sit down and learn it with you like we would both sit down and learn like how this d and d class work and how this spell actually would do and oh if I work with this player like what kind of like. Iron man Captain America Combo wambbo can we work out to dispatch a bunch of enemies. Super Fast so 01:39:30.91 Johnny Absolutely I. 01:39:30.99 sidekqpodcast Um, do. 01:39:34.27 Travis Um. 01:39:36.51 sidekqpodcast Yeah, any any last questions or like anyone else got anything else I'm just trying to think of a good way to end it other than just like you know plug in your stuff and like you know you know where we can find all of you and and stuff like that on on the webs. 01:39:50.77 Johnny Um, think we covered a whole lot in this and I appreciate your you know the platform to be able to kind of talk about it. So thanks man. 01:40:01.81 sidekqpodcast Yeah, not a problem you know, try and try and something new. You know we've done a hundred episodes now and we'll keep doing episodes but it's just like well what would be a cool way to get like a bunch of guests who I've had before that all have similar spheres of interest or expertise. And then maybe maybe they have or have not talked to each other I know I was talking to my coworker Catherine who's had an episode and I was like I would love to get you on an art episode with Lauren Walsh and she is like oh my gosh I would have such imposter syndrome being on the same episode as Lauren Walsh but it's like you're both armous like you both have voices and expertise. 01:40:26.29 Johnny Are. 01:40:29.96 Travis Fifth effort right. 01:40:37.91 sidekqpodcast In the area of art and I'm sure I would love to sit down and be in the same room as y'all having a conversation about art and you know what it means to life and all that stuff and so I think that there is a a rich guest list that that exists with a podcast and that will continue to grow and. You know, hopefully people listening to this episode will want to inspire their friends to reach out to try and be on the podcast or my guests decide like you know what? I Really like this show and maybe it's you know, worth something. Maybe I'll recommend someone else to try and be a guest. So then that way I can come back for another one of these parlays. And then have like a rich panel style episode. My friend that I recommended or whatever. Yeah, yeah, So I guess to it sounds like you know the beers have been drained and we've ah we've reached the natural conclusion. 01:41:16.60 Johnny Um, like yeah. 01:41:20.94 Travis So absolutely, it's cool. 01:41:28.74 Travis I think. 01:41:31.50 Johnny Are. 01:41:33.80 sidekqpodcast Of our conversation without it being too forced or anything like that. So if you just want to go around the table and you know again just remind us like who you are and where you can be found and what things and passions should be know about. 01:41:49.54 Travis I'll go first. Ah, my name's Travis Frederick I'm the chief technology officer and co-founder at Demiplane where we do all things tabletop role-playing come check us out. You can find us on the web at Demi Plane Rpg around the around the horn. 01:41:55.14 Johnny Um. 01:42:05.87 Travis Ah, you can find me on the web at T Frederick 7 2 and yeah I try to get on as many of these sorts of shows as I can so you you may see me around in other places. 01:42:22.19 Johnny Guess we'll go in order of introduction. My name is Johnny Stanton Johnny say in the fourth if you're looking on my social media profile you can find me at at Johnny Stanton Iy on whatever new social media site came up with in the meantime before this episode came out. Um. Yeah, hopefully you got to see me at San Diego Comiccon I got to do a right getting to do at this point. Ah a panel with some very cool people on Thursday afternoon. Um, but yeah and check out the Tiktok. Hopefully um I didn't just completely lose the thread and ah. I will actually put out this athletics check show which because I'm very excited about it. It's just the writing of the script is that the scripts is taking a while. but um but yeah that's what I've got going on. Yeah, yeah. 01:43:11.86 Josh I I feel you when it comes to writing scripts for short form content that is the hardest thing for me to do I tell you? what? um I've I've been Josh Simons and I will continue to be Josh Simons for the foreseeable future I am. The community manager at Demiplane Ah Travis has already talked about us so I'll just say come and join us for our streams on Tuesday mornings and Tuesday evenings at twitch.tv slash demmi plane rpg I produce all those so ah say hi and chat and I'll say hi back. Um, and you can also join us at gencon this year we will have ah some of our team members there so come say hey we'll be hanging out with some of our publishing partners more details of course will be on all of our social media platforms. Then you can follow me personally on the internet at Joshua M Simons 01:43:45.10 Johnny However. 01:44:01.65 Josh Or visit my website. It's always under construction. So I apologize for the dust. It's Joshua Msimons Dot Com you can find things that I've published ah shows that I've been on and who knows what else occasional blogs pictures links. 01:44:09.92 Johnny Here further. 01:44:17.39 Johnny Request. 01:44:20.99 Josh I Don't know it's under construction who knows what it's going to look like when it's done. 01:44:25.23 sidekqpodcast Wonderful and just to make sure because I want I love shouting it out. You know you should support Travis's nonprofit of blocking Hunger Hunger blocking hunger which goes to help out with ah food insecurity. For those in the dallasfort worth area. You know cause hungry bellies lead to happy hearts and strong minds and all that good stuff. So I'm always happy to give that a shout out and you know any of the worthy causes. 01:44:44.19 Johnny Chief. 01:44:54.52 sidekqpodcast You know that everyone else in the panel believes in as well. 01:44:58.90 Travis Yes, thank you I appreciate that. Thank you. 01:44:58.29 Johnny You for having us Curt. 01:44:59.81 sidekqpodcast Yeah, all right? So I'll go ahead and hit stop.