Hey. You're listening to Cut for Time, a podcast from Faith Church located on the North Side Of Indianapolis. My name is Claire Kingsley. Each week, I'll sit down with one of our preaching pastors to discuss their Sunday sermon. Cut for time is a look behind the scenes of sermon preparation and they'll share with us a few things that we didn't hear from the sermon on Sunday.

Thanks for listening. Okay, Tom. Well, you worked all week last week preparing for a sermon, and it's not over because you have to now, do cut for time. But we appreciate all the time that you've preparation and sharing of your message, and that is just a gift to our church body. So thank you for being here and chatting with me today.

Yeah. Well, I always learn a lot from it, so it's my privileges as well. And, Claire, I certainly appreciated your willingness to share the scripture reading with us and to to welcome and lead the prayer time. The worship teams both are did such a wonderful job, of, calling us to the feet of Jesus. It's a good sound to get appreciated.

Mhmm. Yeah. I felt that as well. You are continuing leading us through a passage that has just left us off on cliffhangers each time the last few weeks. It hasn't finished or it's not brought maybe we don't have all these neat and tidy, bows that we can tie on this story.

And so you're kind of in the middle of it. Would you just give us an overview of your sermon within the context of what preceded it and then where what you're what you preached from? Sure. Yeah. It is a long, passage that revolves around Paul appearing before king Agrippa, who was, a very important, very powerful, personality leader in that area.

He had been trained with Caesar in Caesar's court, and so this is Paul's opportunity to fulfill that, vision that Jesus had set for him on the road that Emmauschus said someday he would be testifying not only to the Jewish people and Gentiles, but kings. So here we see how Paul before kings and important people of the city. And two weeks before, Jeff introduced or set up the, the setting for us. And, I did a great job with that, reminding us how God was working and those details on scene. And then, pastor Jeff, the week before, introduced Paul's speech where Paul gave his background and, took his stand on then his belief in the resurrection.

Specifically the resurrection of Jesus as our hope. Mhmm. And then, this week, we looked at Paul's recounting of his conversion story on the road to Damascus. And then next week, the the speech kinda continues with, Festus, interrupting. And Festus gets to the point that Paul's not just giving information here.

Paul's calling them to repentance and faith, as well. So it's a fun passage, and it's a critical passage, for Luke in explaining, Paul's mission and how that's, worked out in a wonderful way. Mhmm. We had a question that somebody asked last week in Cut for Time. You know, this isn't the first time that we've heard Paul's testimony, or just his speech before different groups of people, but this one's different.

And so, just bringing out those what makes this one different and why. Why does he choose to say certain things in this time versus a different time. And you brought that out, I think, in your preaching really well. But would you just recap what was different about this, testimony that Paul gave before the kings and these important people, versus other times? Yeah.

Sure. Luke does repeat things that are critical. So he repeats the story of Peter being sent to Cornelius. You that appears in some form three times. And Luke's point there is God sent Peter to the Gentiles, and the spirit confirmed that this was the work of God that that, was going on with the Gentiles, and the Gentiles were coming to God through Christ apart from becoming, Jewish.

So the conversion of Paul is another story where Luke is stressing all three times some similar points that this is God is at work at work, and, this isn't, though it seems different and challenging to to the Jewish people in their traditional historic way of of looking at things, this is legitimately the work of God as evidenced by what happened on the road, to the Molluscus. But there are some interesting and significant differences between the three accounts of Paul's conversion, on the road to Damascus. The act nine version, which is the first one, is told in the third person. Luke narrates that story for us. And, interestingly, the the conversation that Jesus has with Ananias is much longer than the conversation Jesus has with, Paul as far as the, Acts nine account is, concerned.

And I think the reason for that is that the background or the audience for the Acts nine account are the persecuted Christians. And so you see him, Elias, being sent to Paul by Jesus, and he's worried about it. Don't you know that this guy is dangerous? And so so, the account is all about reassuring the persecuted Christians that God's in charge, God's doing his work, and, that he's going to bring good out of these difficult situations that the church finds itself in. Well, then you move to, Acts 22, and it's a different setting, a different audience.

There we have a group of Jewish patriots that have, they have revolted. Started a riot, and they're they want to kill Paul. They're intent on killing him. And the Romans come in and save Paul, and Paul asked for an opportunity to speak with them. And he's granted that.

And in that opportunity, he recounts again his story and his conversion on the road to Damascus. And that's a first, person account. But the whole stress of that account is that, yes, I'm going to the Gentiles, and, yes, this is disruptive. And I understand I used to be one of you. I persecuted these people.

But God appeared to me, the same God that you worship, and God sent me in this direction to speak to the not only Israel, but to the Gentiles. And God, again appeared to me in the temple, Paul said in a vision and said these these people here in Judea are not going to listen to you. I'm sending you to the gem title. So that's that's the whole point of the second second telling of the conversion story that this was God's word. That God sent Paul to the gem titles and riot if you want, but when you riot, you're opposing God.

Mhmm. And then you come to the the third account, and, again, it's a different audience. So the details Luke tells are the details that are relevant, to the audience. Details false stresses are the details that are relevant to King Agrippa. So, Paul in that story has has been or that setting has been accused of breaking the Jewish traditions and laws of being worthy of death.

And, the Paul just cuts the chase and says, yeah. I used to be one of them. I used to think that same way, but God appeared to me and sent me in another direction. And he you know, this third account very clearly stresses that it was God who spoke to Paul, it was Jesus who appeared to Paul, and how could Paul do anything else after a personal one on one meeting with God? How could God do anything else but be obedient or to be exactly what a Roman king would expect of a subject.

So pretty cool the way that they line up in those kind of details. Yeah. So there are some differences, but the consistency between each is that it's God's work through Paul, which I think is just a little reminder for us when we should be ready and prepared to share our testimony with anybody. It will probably sound different depending on who we're talking to and what we know maybe they're struggling with or what they, might need encouragement in. But ultimately, it's not us.

It's about it's, like, about us pointing them to Christ. And so, like, that should be evident in any way that we share our testimony. That's a great point. I inquire so so often when I look back on my life, I think some of my choices to to in in how I shared Jesus Christ with, my friends and coworkers and neighbors. I hate to admit it, but often it was driven more by me trying to do what I thought I needed to do than really understanding where they were and and what they needed, the word they needed from God, the word and example they needed from from me.

So, yeah, thanks for bringing that out. Alright. So something that you said that we could talk about is the relationship between repentance, conversion, and faith as we see these appear throughout the passage. Would you talk a little bit about that? Yeah.

I I would enjoy that. The the word repent or the idea of repentance seems a little bit strange to us, today. We kind of think of a street preacher, or we think of John the Baptist standing up in his strange clothing, kind of an old right right out of the pages of, the old testament of the prophet, calling people to repent. And I think we tend to think of repentance in terms of I've done some individual act of sin, and I I need to confess to that and turn away from it. And that was the the kind of the Greek thinking about the repentance or understanding or stress of repentance.

But I think in in the Jewish world, in the Christian world, repentance is, the term that gets applied for the realization that there's something in life that needs to be turned away from. We we as natural born human beings, are in a state of, rebellion. We don't like to think about that with our our kids and and our own character. But if, Paul's right in in Romans, I think it's it's hard for us to to, resist the notion that we have a nature that leads us to naturally rebel against God. We're not all as awful as we could be or as simple as we could be.

But there is a a natural human tendency within everyone of us to be in rebellion, to want to run our own life, to have that life revolve around us selfishly. And Really. The the Paul talks about that as wandering in the darkness. So the when when the New Testament calls us to repent, that's what it's calling us to recognize is that there's there's a change of mind. There's a change of direction that needs to take place.

So repentance is the language about the negative aspect of that. What are we turning away from? Mhmm. Faith then is the the positive aspect of what we're turning towards. So what we're no we're turning away from our self directed, that selfish kind of perspective, then we're turning towards Jesus Christ, who has revealed God through us.

And and the, way we're turning to him is by putting our faith in him rather than in ourself and putting our allegiance, towards him rather than, towards ourselves. So the process of turning away is repentance and turning toward in his faith. And in the New Testament, the the third word conversion, the epistrepo, is the the the combination of the two. It's converting from the old and and turning, to the new. In Luke's writings, Luke the gospel of Luke and Acts, Luke pretty consistently addresses audiences that are pulled to Jesus Christ, pulled to the gospel, they're on their own track, they're not interested.

He consistently addresses those audiences with a call to repent. And then audiences that are are warm, that recognize their need and are willing to embrace Jesus Christ or already have embraced Jesus Christ, Luke consistently shows those audiences being audiences that have faith. So you see that in this very passage in in verse 18 that Luke says that Jesus called Paul to open their eyes, the Gentiles that is, to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God and that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me. So there you hear the the faith language for those that have already turned to Christ and been sanctified and part of God's family. But then in verse 20, when basically Paul is turning the tables and said, I'm I obeyed Christ.

I have called people to turn that that conversion language to him. Paul Paul's a record, to, repentance. So he says, I wasn't disobedient to that holy vision, but declared first those in Damascus, then in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judah, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God performing deeds in keeping with their repentance. So there's the broad description of Paul's work, his, testimony, his his preaching among all peoples is to call them to turn away, to repent and then turn towards Christ. So interesting detail maybe, you know, but language we're not familiar with, but, we should be very comfortable.

Yeah. What would you say to somebody who's just wished they could pinpoint their their own moments of repentance or conversion. And they're like, but I just feel like I've always known Christ and have always pursued him. How does that fit? No.

Yeah. That's a great question because you're describing me, Claire. I know your story, a little bit, but I grew up in, an environment of hearing the gospel, over and over and over again. And I I have I can't pinpoint, a a time where I I made that term. I but I think the main point is not that there's a specific point in time when we can identify with this.

But the main point of this law logic is that there is a foundational change that has taken place in our life. We tend to think of our salvation as, a little bit of life insurance maybe that that you add to your life. You know, anything just kinda carry on, the same, and we have just this new element or aspect. But when you read this repentance faith language conversion language, in the New Testament, I think it's making it pretty clear that the the point is not that there's some specific moment we can identify, But the point is we can identify we were once on that road that was leading destruction, and there's been a foundational change in our life. And we're now on the road that's, been illuminated by the life and love of Jesus Christ, and, we're on a path that leads to eternal life.

So that kind of I think I can even use the word radical. It's not that necessarily shows up in radical ways in our life, but the focus and the meaning and the trajectory of our life changes. Well, I think it's that trajectory change that gives us the assurance that we seek sometimes when we're trying to find a date. You know, what's that about? I'm trying to reassure myself Yeah.

That I've made that decision. But I think the the biblical foundation for that kind of assurance is just recognizing that work of God that's taking place in our lives and that we're on a new road that we were on before. Yep. That makes sense. Thank you for sharing your parts of your story, to put that into context.

That's we appreciate that. So you did, mention in your sermon, you're like, verse 19 is the central verse, which there's not, it's not very long. It just says, therefore therefore, oh, king Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision. The text has this chiasm structure, around verse 19. So can you tell us a little bit more about what you see, before and after?

What's the differences on either side of verse 19? You're well, the three verses leading up to verse 19 are Christ's commissioning of Paul with a promise that he'll protect him. And then the four verses after verse 19 are Paul's obedience to that, commissioning and the reality and sharing the reality, price protecting him. So the the word that connects that first layer of, verse 16 and and, verses, like twenty two and twenty three is the word witness. Or we we we know the word martyr, which, that Greek word witness, comes from.

And then the second layer is the promise for protection and the experience of protection. And then the third layer versus eighteen and twenty, share the word for turning or conversion. So if he that's the way the literary pattern works out. It was pretty commonly used in Old Testament and New Testament times as a literary device that that helps us remember things and also pinpoints that central point. Okay.

King of God. I was obedient. These people think I I'm, worthy of death, but in reality, I'm just obeying my God and my God. Mhmm. And you said that, Paul went from thinking that he needs to protect God, like last sermon, we named it we titled the sermon, the defense, to realizing his own need for protection from God.

Talk more about that. Yeah. I think that's kind of a a fun thing to see in the tech. When you see Saul of Tarsus, who we later, referred to as Paul by his Greek name, a choice he he made, I think, to relate to the Gentiles, more fully. I don't know.

Perhaps a change that God made, in his life. But, anyway, when you see Saul breathing out thought, Luke says he was breathing breathing out, threats and slaughter against the people of Jesus Christ. Saul was absolutely convinced that he was doing the work of God and that God needed him to do that defensive work. Down. You know, where things just weren't going to go well that one for Israel.

So you have the sense that Paul's out on this very evil mission when you think about it, that the Old Testament, you know, Jesus and and the rabbi summarized the responsibility of the Old Testament is you love God with all your heart, love your neighbor as yourself. And somehow God, or Paul got that, that, little turned around on, he thought loving God with all his heart was basically hating and destroying his neighbor that, he didn't feel was living up to the standard that God was requiring. And so it's kind of a neat change to see that Paul's, this Paul in his commissioning by Jesus Christ rather than thinking he's out defending God at the table to, which Jesus says, I'm going to protect you. I'm gonna send you out. He he ordered him in other places.

It was going to be hard. But I'm going to protect you. I'm going to be with you through that. And so you see a change in Paul's attitude and approach to people and that, he now depends on God's protection rather than being motivated by a need to protect God. Mhmm.

Probably speaks up in some ways too, Clare. Yeah. That's what I was just just gonna ask you. How does that apply to us today? Yeah.

I think I think it's pretty easy for us to look at the situations we're involved. You know, we feel like our culture is maybe going in the wrong direction. We see problems in our family where our kids or relatives or parents maybe are making decisions that we we think, oh, boy. I I didn't you know, I've got to say something. I got to stand up for God.

In this situation. Well, I think sometimes we we get get get that motivation from this thought that somehow God needs our defense. And I remember there it was spurred. And the the quote's been, attributed to several people, Spurgeon, John Knox, the the reformer. But the the idea that that God needs, defending is ridiculous.

So we would, just that it make make just as much sense to say we needed to defend the lion, yeah, in in the wild. So, our our purpose isn't to our calling isn't to defend God. Our calling is, well, to display the love of Christ, to, to the world, which is a beautiful way that that gets put, you know, in second Corinthians three, chapters three through five, which we referenced on Sunday. Mhmm. No.

That's so helpful. Just a great reminder, about what motivates us when we feel that tension of wanting to defend the, you know, God who has, you know, saved us and changed us and realizing that that's that's a hard thing to be like, that's not my job, and I am not asked to do that. God has not asked me to do that. That's that is silly. Would I love that you put that in perspective of that's like defending a lion.

It is ridiculous. He doesn't need that. He didn't ask that from me or of me. But I've definitely felt the pressure or the desire to defend him with other people. That's a hard thing.

I Claire, I Dawn and I went through this, with our kids. And, you know, you we we love our children. You love your children. You want the very best for your children. And, you know, at times, we felt like, you know, we wanna work.

This is coming from my pastoral days, and and, you may be able to relate to this. But, you know, we we felt like, you know, if our kids didn't live up to a certain standard, it was it was going to be embarrassing. We were supposed to be the pastor and the and the leaders within and the church. And, you know, I that that is, I think, so damaging to us and our kids, to to be thinking, in that way. And our true desire for our kids is is not that they find Jesus and walk in his way, so we look good.

That's just saying it makes it ridiculous. You know, our desires, if we're the best for our children, for our well-being, for those we like, for our neighbors. So with that desire for their best, we share what we share rather than for our comfort or for, keeping up our appearances. K. Mhmm.

Thank you so much for your time today. Is there anything else that you wish you had time to, you know, flesh out or, be able to talk about in your sermon that we haven't been able to touch on. Well, I think, we beat this horse up pretty good, Blair. Well, thank you for the opportunity to chat. Alright.

Thank you, Tom. I appreciate you, and we appreciate your time. Yeah. You're welcome. Thank you, Claire.

Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Cut for Time. If you wish to submit questions to our pastors following their sermon, you can email them to podcastfaithliveitout dot org or text them into our faith church texting number, and we'll do our best to cover it in the week's episode. If this conversation blessed you in any way, we encourage you to share it with others. Thanks for listening. We'll be back again next week.