(Transcribed by TurboScribe. Go Unlimited to remove this message.)

Hey, you're listening to Cut For Time, a podcast from Faith Church, located on the north side of Indianapolis. My name is Claire Kingsley. And I'm Dan Breitwieser. 

Each week, one of us will sit down with the person who gave Sunday's sermon to discuss their message. Cut For Time is a look behind the scenes of sermon preparation, and they'll share with us a few things that we didn't hear from the sermon on Sunday. Thanks for listening.

Hey, Jeff, you are at the airport. So I'm just going to say it just in case people are hearing some extra background noise or interruptions. Usually they're on my end from children, but you're at the airport and you're about to leave for Africa.

And so we just are trying to catch this just in time, this episode right before you head out. Yeah, thankfully, we got through security real quickly and have a little bit of time at the gate. And I've tried to find kind of a quiet corner. 

My wife Amelia and I are super excited to be heading out to Nairobi to visit with our seminary partners at Nairobi Evangelical Graduate School of Theology, connect with them, encourage them, see our faith missionaries, Mark and Alyssa Dunker, and I find Samson and Judy Wanda. It's, yes, it's never been to Africa before. So we're looking forward to it. 

And worshipping in a different context. I just, I love being able to do that. Seeing how other brothers and sisters around the world worship their expression of praising Jesus. 

I can see that in both you and Amelia and just, you both strike me as like adaptable people. Like you would be fine anywhere, honestly, in any context, and you'd be able to like engage in worship and encourage. And so I think that you guys are great people to be on that trip. 

And I can't wait to hear how it goes when you guys get back. Thanks. Yeah. 

We look forward to it. Well, Jeff, why don't you give us a rundown from your sermon on Sunday? Yeah. So Sunday we looked at another one of Jesus' farted sayings, and this is one of the more familiar ones, how farted it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of heaven.

But the context is this rich young ruler who comes up to Jesus asking him, what must I do to inherit eternal life? And Jesus puts his finger on what this man's problem is. Not that curse, not that he has wealth, but wealth seems to have a hold on him. And this man is successful and he's prosperous. 

And he seems like he thinks he doesn't need anything. He doesn't need anyone's help. He believes that he can do something to inherit eternal life. 

And that's the first kind of challenge that Jesus puts in front of him. The man is essentially asking, why would I need help? And that's where Jesus is challenging him and challenging us to think and look at the things that maybe we put our confidence in other than Genesis. Because the big idea of the whole message was the things that we trust to save us will eventually enslave us. 

But Jesus comes to set us free. And he's come to set this young, rich, successful man free with the grip of his wealth as himself. And the problem is not so much that he's rich. 

It's that he's trusting in his wealth. His wealth has become his security and his insanity and his confidence. And just earlier in Matthew 19, Jesus has said, if you want to enter the kingdom, you must become like a little child.

And there's a part of us that hates that, right? I don't want to be a dependent little child. I don't want to see myself as a leper or a blind man or a dead daughter, as someone who can do nothing. And I'm totally dependent on Jesus reaching out to me and rescuing me. 

And so when Jesus unpacks this man's trust in his wealth and tells him to give away his wealth to the poor and come follow him, the man walks away sad. And because it's surfacing for this man what his problem was. And it's a challenge for us because one, none of us really think of ourselves as wealthy, which, you know, you can argue back and forth on what scale. 

The challenge is we think that we're not in danger of trusting our wealth because there's always somebody that's wealthier than us. And I think Jesus is wanting to lovingly confront us with that. The disciples see this man walk away sad and they ask, well, if this man can't be saved, how can anyone be saved? The second question through the text was, how is that even possible? How does anyone, how does it work for anyone? And Jesus answers, well, it isn't possible in our own power, but with God, all things are possible. 

And Jesus is saying, look, I've not come to command you to do something that you can't do. I've not come to command you to keep the law or even to get rid of your idols. I've come to rescue you from your idols and invite people who see that they're trapped and need help to come and find help from me. 

And I'm here for you. The challenge is if I'm willing to see myself as someone who needs help and willing to say, oh my God, what deliver me and bring me into life and into his kingdom. And then Peter, oh, he's so great. 

I love the honesty of the Bible and how it presents the heroes of our faith. Peter, of course, just jumps right out and says, Lord, we've given up everything to follow you. What will there be for us? So the third question from the text is, if I let go, will Jesus be enough? And this is where Jesus gives us beautiful reassurance and the answer that anyone who has given up things to follow him, houses or land or family will receive a hundredfold. 

And in the kingdom will receive life and glory and authority and significance. And Jesus is saying, yes, I will be more than, but what is your treasure? And he's inviting us to not just look at the cost of following him, because we sometimes get the scale imbalanced in our vision. And we can see the things that it looks like Jesus is asking us to give up, but we lose sight of the far greater treasure that Jesus is offering. 

And it's a good thing for us to just even spend some time reflecting on what is it that might have control of my heart? And what is Jesus offering me? What are the promises that the Bible gives of the treasure that I will have in Christ or follow? And ultimately, one of the best parts of this whole interaction, it's not even in Matthew's gospel, it's from Mark's account of the same interaction. And he says, Jesus, looking at the young man, loved him. And that changes so radically how we see this interaction. 

It's not the demand of a harsh judge. It's not an angry God. It's not God who's trying to ruin your life. 

It's a Savior who's God in heaven and wants to bring us into true freedom by challenging us to let go of the things that have too big of a grip on us. And it's not the last thing. And Jeff, the passage ends with Jesus saying, those who are first will be last and the last shall be first. 

How does that summarize everything that Jesus has just been talking about? Oh, man. Oh, what a great question. That's a little bit of a comfort zone literal question, because the whole chapter, Matthew chapter 19, is all about, as some commentators have said, status inversion. 

That is, Jesus starts the chapter with saying, if you're going to enter the kingdom, you have to become like a woman's child. Children know that there are things they can't do, and they're not shy about asking their parents for help. And Jesus is saying, that's the attitude that you'd have to have if you weren't born into the kingdom. 

You have to acknowledge, I can't do that, but my father can do that, and I will come to heaven. That's the question about divorce, and can a man divorce his wife for any reason? And so the Pharisees are looking for, what's the least that I can do and still be okay with God? And right there, trying to put themselves in a position of kind of control and defining, how good do I have to be in order to get in? And that's, again, where Jesus is saying, the people who think they're first are going to maybe find out they're last. And the people who the world looks on as last, like little children, like women that selfish husbands don't want, they're the ones that the kingdom is good news, and that responds joyfully to Jesus' invitation. 

And the people who have the wealth and the success, that doesn't keep them from getting in the kingdom, but it can become a roadblock if I'm really counting on my wealth and my success and my possessions and my reputation and my abilities. And the people in that position are the first, the lower, and nothing less. So that's the whole point of really this whole chapter, that is a great conclusion to that passage. 

Thank you for bringing that out. Okay, good. What else did you have to cut for time? Oh, man, there's a good bit. 

You know, when the young man comes up and asks Jesus, what good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life? And Jesus makes this a little comment about, why do you call me good? There's only one who is good. And it's fascinating if we just slow down and pay attention to what Jesus is doing here. It's quite fascinating. 

He is subtly pointing this man to the fact that he's not really considering in his calculation about how to enter the kingdom, the one person who's truly good. And the man's problem is that he thinks he's pretty good, and he's in a good position. And Jesus is not denying his goodness, or denying that he's the Son of God, but he's saying, like, oh, well, if you want to talk about what's good, have you considered the one, the one person who is actually good? And the man just, you know, states by it. 

But it's this great little subtle opening that Jesus leaves for this man to say, oh, yeah, I'm actually not a good person like God is. And no teacher, no rabbi is a good person like God is. In fact, there's a little bit of interesting history behind this. 

The Talmud is the collection of hundreds and hundreds of years of rabbinic teaching and commentary on the scriptures, and rabbis going back and forth to each other about what it means to know the Lord and to follow the law. And so there's sort of rabbis talking to each other in the Talmud. And commentators have pointed out there's not one instance in the Talmud of a rabbi being called good, because there was actually just concern, this hesitation on the part of faithful rabbis that to call anyone good would be to ascribe to them a quality that belongs ultimately only to God. 

And so even in that, this young man is just sort of throwing out, maybe it's almost a flattery, or it's maybe a courtesy, but it's kind of outside of convention, even in Jewish culture. And Jesus is even challenging him gently on that, like, why are you calling me good? Like, that's not something rabbis are, that's what God is. So are you willing to listen to me, like you would listen to God? That's great. 

I mean, I can totally see why you couldn't include that in your sermon, because it wasn't the direction you're going exactly. But yeah, why it's like, that's the kind of stuff that I love hearing in Cut for Time, and like, really helpful to know, you know, good context. Yeah, it's fun to noodle around with that stuff and the things you run across in reading and studying prayerful reflection. 

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, Jeff, so we know that it can include wealth that has a hold on us, but it's not limited to wealth. 

And you said it could be anything that has a hold on us or what we cling to that's not Jesus. So what would be some clues or indicators that we could use to figure out what those things would be for each of us? What are we clinging to or holding on tightly to that we need to release? Yeah. Wow, that's a good question.

One answer to, you know, what are some of those things? It can be just about anything. We'll make an eiffel out of any good thing that God has given us, food, money, sex, family, children, reputation, career, impact on the world. And I think the thing, some of the things that help us disseminate are asking, what is it that I really can't even imagine letting go of? What is it that, like, if you think about what's the worst outcome of my life that I could possibly imagine? Beyond like, the Christian answer would be like not having Jesus, but at a practical level, like, what if I lost my job and I was unemployed and I didn't have this house? Or what if my kids grow up and they turn out poorly or they don't love me, they don't want a relationship with me? What if, you know, I never get a vacation home or I don't get to retire on the beach in Florida? What if I have a terrible accident? And I, you know, I'm in pain and I'm injured or handicapped and someone for the rest of my life, like it, whatever it is, the thing that feels like death, the thing that feels like I can't even imagine living through that, that can be a hint to what maybe has a big, too big of a hold on my heart. 

The thing that we get really angry or nervous about when it gets to that, that's often a sign of what we're really trusting in and what we're loving more than Jesus. Maybe it's my reputation. Maybe it's stuff that I own.

Maybe it's, you know, people not treating me the way I deserve to be treated. You know, there's a hundred different things. But I think it's, you know, the things that we fear losing, the things that, you know, frighten us because it feels like death if it goes this way, or the things that we just find ourselves spending so much time thinking about, managing, seeking, investing in it. 

You know, we know the stereotypes of, you know, maybe the guy who, you know, the only thing he wants to talk about is sports. That's like become almost like his whole world. There's nothing wrong with enjoying sports, right? I mean, right. 

We've run into that right? Like the only topic of conversation and maybe it's fashion, maybe it's popular celebrities and music or whatever it is. And again, none of those things are wrong, but we can get to a point where we just almost sort of build our personality. For example, a pop star or a sports team or where we live. 

So that I think that becomes part of it is what is it that becomes the head of the center of my, like how I see myself and how I look at the world. Yeah. We used to say, I mean, this is true still, like where you spend your money is like a good idea of like what you worship. 

Right. But also now, especially with the commodity of time, like where you spend your time, it reveals a lot about what, where your priorities are. Um, but something that you said just sparked a thought and I'd love to hear your thoughts on it, which is just, um, you said anything that we love more than Jesus. 

And I bet the most of the people listening to this podcast would be like, I love Jesus the most. There's no threat to meet my love for Jesus. But what if it's not, what do I love more than Jesus? It's like, I love Jesus and, and so it's like, maybe we just put it on an equal playing field. 

It's like, well, I love Jesus. And also I love my career and that's not necessarily bad. Right. 

Like we do want to love it, but then we, there is obviously a fine line or a boundary where it does become too much. So can we love Jesus and love like, you know, that's like, are you saying, I don't know, that's really hard and complicated. Of course we can love Jesus in our country. 

We can love Jesus in our family. We can love Jesus in our work. We can love Jesus in our children. 

Uh, I think the, maybe one of the signs is to step back and reflect, uh, do I really, does Jesus really have permission to do whatever he wants to with that thing that I also love? Yeah. Would I still follow him? Would I still love him and follow him if he took that thing or that? And would Jesus still do that? Because here's Peter saying like, you know, you think about houses and women's and families and everything to follow. And Jesus is saying like, yeah, you did. 

And you're not going to miss out. Like you actually made a sacrifice. And I just need to know it's absolutely more than a hundred books in the life of Jesus that's in war. 

Uh, I think the other way, maybe another way you could think of it is, um, but I've seen any ways in which maybe Jesus has become a tool for me to protect or advance or gain more of the things that I really love. It's sort of a related to the other questions. I can't get, does Jesus have the right to challenge me or do whatever he wants to do with that thing? Or is Jesus really along for the ride with me, uh, in those things that I ultimately really, really. 

Yeah. Yeah. That's, I think that that's great, Jeff. 

And, um, that feels like, yeah, you hit the nail on the head there. So I appreciate that. Um, I went through, uh, went to a conference a few months ago and it took us through an exercise in a similar way of like, what do you, what do you fear happening in your life? Or what, what are some of your fears and to write those down? And then what would be a practical step for you to release those back to God and give him that, um, like give him control in that space.

So you're just like brainstorming, like, well, I guess it could look like I would give up, give him this fear if I did X, Y, Z or whatever. Um, and then what would it look like to actually do some of those things? So I don't know if that would be like a helpful exercise for people to, if they like to journal or just something to think about as they're driving. Um, it goes back to something you had said earlier, which is just, what are those things that we feel like we're not like, if are we not giving Jesus authority over in our lives? Like, I'd like to hold on to that myself. 

Or are we like, actually, is it open-handed for God to do whatever he wants of it? Yeah. Yeah. Uh, and again, I mean, the Bible is also full of lots of people who are wealthy, right? Uh, Abraham and Jacob and David and Solomon. 

And I mean, so it's possible, but Jesus is saying, you know, the statement about a camel through the eye of needle. Yeah. He's, he's using hyperbole there. 

Like, you know, if there's a plank in your eye, take it out to help your brother, cut your right hand off if it causes you to sin. Uh, Jesus, obviously, I mean, he's just said it's hard for a man, rich person to enter the kingdom. He's not saying it possibly literally, but it is a call to radical surrender and radical self-examination.

And I think not just in Jesus world, but maybe even more for us, because we are just objectively so healthy. We have so much. And does that in some ways make it harder for me to be willing to let any of it go or to feel like if Jesus took it away, I would still have more than him. 

I would be incredibly blessed to have nothing and to have Jesus. Uh, yeah, there's, uh, I think what you're saying, I like what you said from that, uh, conference you were at, um, that can be a really helpful exercise, uh, and a good reflection for us. And I think it's, I think that's helpful for all of us tonight because we aren't just that. 

We have a lot and Jesus wants us to take seriously, to wrestle with the question, um, however much I possess, do I possess my things or do they possess me? Am I willing to hold them loosely and not feel like I'll be destroyed if I don't have them? Because Jesus is more than a helper. That's, that's, I think what he's really dodging us to. And he's telling us that because he's a kind Savior. 

He wants us to be free and he wants us to know a fullness and a joy in having them. Yep. Yes. 

All right. Thank you, Jeff. Thanks for your time today. 

Yeah, thank you. It's kind of, kind of fun. It's actually, I mean, we're even doing this across different time zones. 

I'm sitting over here right now, so I don't know that we've done a cross time zone recording. It's kind of cool. Thanks. 

Well, it could be even more incredible if you were in Africa, but also a lot more complicated. So I'm grateful for just one hour. But I hope you have a great trip and thank you for making time for this. 

Yeah. Thank you. Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Cut For Time. 

If you wish to submit questions to our pastors following Sunday's sermon, you can email them to podcast at faithchurchindy.com or text them into our faith church texting number, and we'll do our best to cover them in next week's episode. If this conversation blessed you in any way, we encourage you to share it with others. We'll be back again next week.

(Transcribed by TurboScribe. Go Unlimited to remove this message.)